gaps between extrusions on the first layer is something to rectify. Either your z offset is not right, or your extrusion rate is not right. With a perfect first layer, the bottom will pretty much always look better than the top, even with all the settings you used.
I used a 3rd party smooth PEO print sheet on my k1 max and set first layer to go slow, and the result always come out a very shiny and reflective bottom. I didn't use any glue.
The correct answer was #2, upside down. What you saw were not layer lines, they were evidence that you need to calibrate your Z offset. There should NOT be space between lines on any layer, but most importantly the first layer.
Bambu slicer has several adjustable parameters for ironing, one of which is Ironing Flow. It's default is 10% but I find 11-12% gives me a nearly perfect top layer.
Textured bed sheet, upside down, lower z offset so the squish will blend, and same bottom layer advice you used and it’ll look 10x better no ironing needed
I think you would benefit from using Orca slicer, an ABL decice to create a mesh before each print, and a PEY hologram sheet to print it upside down amd give the clock face a holographuc surface. Orca slicer has a lot of great calibration tools that are filamemt and machine specific. You can create a one layer print to perfect your Z offset value prior to running all the calibration prints
I appreciate the time you put into this video, especially with the number of times you reprinted the clock. A tip I can pass along to you is to flip the flip upside down, like you did in the video, but print it on the reverse (smooth) side of a glass bed. It will come out insanely flat and smooth
Good video, i like your style, no nonsense, you get straight to it and show us your full process with clear and concise explanation. Good work. First video I've watched on your channel, I'll be back for more 😊
I bought an Infimech TX a couple of months ago. Guys, this thing is AWESOME. I'm getting rid of all my ender 3s. I'm no spokesman either. I'm FINALLY able to finish up on my 1:1 F-16 Cockpit for DCS and MSFS. SUPER Smooth prints. I literally slice and hit print. I walk away and it's done!!!!
That works here, although I find the ugliness of non monotonic is often visible on the bottom layer too. And in general, not all prints admit flipping, so this is a useful tip for his audience.
Monotonic simply means the head is traveling in the same direction for each extrusion move. It is interesting that Cura does this more orderly but that isn't a requirement for monotonic. Good video, I think I need this clock for my theater.
Printing face down on glass with a light coating of hairspray does it for me, almost perfect surface quality! Also need just the right z offset to avoid gaps.
Whenever he says "layer lines" he means "print lines". "layer lines" are the lines between each layer, which run vertically throughout the print, not across the top layer of the print (which is a single layer)
You had it right when you flipped it upside down, but needed to dial in your settings for the first layer. Dialing in the top layer is good when you need a good top and bottom layer, but this could have been just a good 1st layer.
Although I appreciate the attempt, this could be just 1 or 2 steps: 1. Correct Z height 2. Adjust (first layer) flow/extrusion. A perfect first layer won’t have any layer lines and will always be better than an ironed top layer
1) Print upside down (and use a build plate with a nice texture) 2) Decrease first layer line width. 0.3 works just fine with stickier PLA, 0.35 works with most materials.You need to watch the first layer, if it rips or lifts, then either increase the width by a bit or use a lower first layer height (0.12mm instead of 0.2mm for example). 3) Increase first layer flow rate to 105-110% 4) Use a different first layer infill pattern that doesn't leave gaps (this depends on geometry, I don't change it for most models). Concentric sometimes works better Ironing sucks, leaves the surface too shiny, tends to clog the nozzle on some printers and can leave some nasty lines sometimes.
Smooth PEI or garolite/g10/fr4 and printing it upside down is always the solution you should go for if you want a smooth or even mirror-like first layer since it saves time and significant amounts of effort versus ironing. Just gotta dial in Z-offset to not get those awkward gaps
I suggest looking into patterned and mirror finish printing plates, and try the face down option (2) again with the plate designed to give a specific finish. (use slightly higher than normal heat to really let the pattern melt into that first layer( like an extra 5c))
I would use some of the fancy plates you can get with patterns in them one of the patterns is like carbon fibre which would look good, some of the less obvious plate patterns would also be good. They are generally smooth in texture so a good first layer would give a nice smooth surface with like a printed pattern visual not textured.
i think, there are some improvements. try min. 4 top layers, because the infill is peaking through. put it upside down, like you did, lower the Z a half layerheigh, put a 0.3 bottom layer with 105 to 110 extrusion. is it possible, that you dont have a abl ? because of the big heigh differenzes. i use 4 bottom and 5 top layer to vanish the infill peak through and enough stability its a great idea
for smt like this print flipping the model and using a powdered bed is perfect, u dont see any print lines. For other models ironing is good but needs to be calibrated perfectly
On the top layer use a concentric surface pattern for this round object. Otherwise try using a Hilbert curve if using Orca slicer. These tend to give a better top look, imho.
If you do upside down, over extrude the bottom layer. Ie kind of like elephants foot. Also, people have been using special surfaces to get holographic style reflections. P-flat sheets I believe they are called
Simply print the file facedown on the print bed, the fact that your first layer is a bit crappy isn't a good reason to abandon this approach, I can fairly easily get glass smooth glossy prints using this approach.
for a while i couldn't figure out why i wasn't getting perfect ironing anymore.. I installed a BL touch. this basically makes the whole print carry the wavy offset of the bed mesh level though-out the whole print. I put Fade_start: 0.2, Fade_end:1 into my Bed_mesh in my Klipper printer.cfg file to fix the problem. Beautiful top layers, even without ironing.. but of course ironing is better. I also have gone full OCD and trammed the printer like its a machining mill lol. So no matter the direction the nozzle is doing the top layer it looks exactly the same My bed mesh goes from -0.1350 to 0.2400, carborundum glass bed with thick aluminum heat plate. I print up to 115c bed temps, the glass doesn't take long to start warping and finding a "home" to where it settles
Thats pretty cool. Though i would probably just prime the crap out of it and light sand. Im definitely going to try the trick for the more curvy prints. And gotta say, that clock would look pretty sweet with a backlight to bring out the detail.
In my experience if I see layer lines on the bottom layer it means I'm under extruding, first layer temp too low, or bed too cold. Mostly extrusion. My prints always come off with a perfectly consistent face, occasionally a tiny little knot where the plastic pulled up a quarter millimeter.
I use PLA+ and the down face is as smooth as a whistle when I use my smooth bed, or has a nice random pattern if I use my patterned bed. My guess is you need to set your extruder temperature slightly higher.
Man, this is a simple upside down print. Use the same settings you would with a coaster. The mono top finish was a good insight. Avoid ironing where u can...adds way too much time.
Upside down its the way, but you need to adjust a perfect first layer, looking your prints i think you need to adjust max flow, a perfect calibrated bed and z-hop.
One time I need same things I want hide top layer....I have just flip the piece and start with first layer like 0.08 or 0.1 I don't rememb good but if you have good first layer try this flip the piece and put 0.08/0.1 in first layer
Some slicer you can change the top layer to 0.1 for finer finish if the adaptive layer height was not doing the job. For something like this I just have no bottom layer to speed things up.
Eighteen _Fuckin' _*_Hours?!_* 😱 Had to slap this onto my Slicers Build Plate just for the shits and giggles and even with Ironing enabled ( adding another 2h20min ) it would still only take 4h40min!!! Toss whatever Joke of a 3D Printer you have and get yourself a real Machine! This is outrageous even just hearing about yet alone experiencing it in this day and age of affordable _fast_ 3D Printers 💢
It's so utterly stupid that monotonic isn't default. Cura used to always do monotonic, but added "optimized" order a few years go, and only added the option to go back after enough people complained... 🤦
Your face down print looks like your extrusion is too low or your z-offset is too far from the plate. My face down prints are much more even with a proper tuned first layer. But ultimately, for 2d silhouettes like this, I feel a laser cutter and acrylic sheet is a far superior option. If this is for small business commercial production, an investment in a $500-900usd laser wouldn’t be unreasonable
That's a good point. And it doesn't even have to cost $500-$900. If you already have a 3D printer, you can get a laser head for $150. That's reasonable for a hobbyist. Particularly for a hobbyist who may have upgraded to a different printer, so they have a spare printer sitting there.
It's waaay more practical to simply print it upside down, with a thicker first layer, than sand it after printing. There is no point in the "no sanding" part of the title. Sanding takes only a few minutes, while printing with "advanced options" makes printing much longer, much more prone to error and to wasting material. This is the kind of "tutorial" that makes me think about that joke of leting the stove always on fire just to avoid using matches to light it up.
Уважаемый, просто переверни деталь на сторону лицевой на стол и буквы смени направление. И будет тебе счастье!!!! Сейчас есть красивые столы с офигенным покрытием и не нужен этот геморрой😊 удачи в печати
What I would fix the biggest issue first, trash the Ender and buy a better printer, then you wouldn't have any of these issues and it would print about twice as fast
Lol spends all that time showing us the poor finish layers but then when he gets to step 5 I blinked and missed the view to be able to compare ha ha. So still crap then
![Eminem - Somebody Save Me (feat. Jelly Roll) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vwa0HenQMi4/mqdefault.jpg)
gaps between extrusions on the first layer is something to rectify. Either your z offset is not right, or your extrusion rate is not right. With a perfect first layer, the bottom will pretty much always look better than the top, even with all the settings you used.
This is largely true, but without monotonic fill order, either will look bad.
I used a 3rd party smooth PEO print sheet on my k1 max and set first layer to go slow, and the result always come out a very shiny and reflective bottom. I didn't use any glue.
The correct answer was #2, upside down. What you saw were not layer lines, they were evidence that you need to calibrate your Z offset. There should NOT be space between lines on any layer, but most importantly the first layer.
The only thing I would do different is, to print small test pieces, instead of waisting time and material of full prints.
What I would do is use a laser & do it in 1 minute instead of 17 hours. Use the right tool for the job. 3D printing has its place. This ain’t it.
Waisting time? What, do you have a belt made out of wrist watches or something?
@@yzmotoxer807I like this comment
Such thing always upside down. But needs perfect first layer. Love smooth pei for this
Bambu slicer has several adjustable parameters for ironing, one of which is Ironing Flow. It's default is 10% but I find 11-12% gives me a nearly perfect top layer.
The Bambu Printers print well enough where you rarely even see the lines without ironing, or at least not as bad as these prints
@@dominicpond True. I use ironing very infrequently.
Subbed because your video was no-nonsense and gave a really good layout of what I was going to see, and saw exactly that. Perfect!
Thank you! I appreciate that!
Textured bed sheet, upside down, lower z offset so the squish will blend, and same bottom layer advice you used and it’ll look 10x better no ironing needed
Oh. I wondered why my bottoms looked sloppy since I last leveled the bed. Thanks.
I think you would benefit from using Orca slicer, an ABL decice to create a mesh before each print, and a PEY hologram sheet to print it upside down amd give the clock face a holographuc surface. Orca slicer has a lot of great calibration tools that are filamemt and machine specific. You can create a one layer print to perfect your Z offset value prior to running all the calibration prints
I appreciate the time you put into this video, especially with the number of times you reprinted the clock.
A tip I can pass along to you is to flip the flip upside down, like you did in the video, but print it on the reverse (smooth) side of a glass bed. It will come out insanely flat and smooth
Good video, i like your style, no nonsense, you get straight to it and show us your full process with clear and concise explanation. Good work. First video I've watched on your channel, I'll be back for more 😊
Thank you! Hope you enjoy the other videos as well.
Yes str8 to the point , no nonstop talking for the first half of the video 😂 thank you @vaderdadbuilds
I bought an Infimech TX a couple of months ago. Guys, this thing is AWESOME. I'm getting rid of all my ender 3s. I'm no spokesman either.
I'm FINALLY able to finish up on my 1:1 F-16 Cockpit for DCS and MSFS. SUPER Smooth prints. I literally slice and hit print. I walk away and it's done!!!!
Thanks for the tip! I’ve been using cura for 2 years and never knew about the monotonic settings. This solves a lot of problems I’ve had to deal with
Flip it upside-down, level your bed, lower your z offset just a little to make a squish and that's it. No need for such a waste of filament.
I like you don't use music in your videos, thank you for that and for share the settings.
Thank you for watching!
honestly it looks like you have some under extrusion going on, especially on the bottom layer example.
Juat tune your first layer properly and print up side down. It will be perfect
That works here, although I find the ugliness of non monotonic is often visible on the bottom layer too. And in general, not all prints admit flipping, so this is a useful tip for his audience.
@daliasprints9798 true true. My comment was written too quick from my phone and I must admit after reading it sounded a bit rude. Apologies
All good, wasn't rude to me. Plus these comments help me make a better video next time.😀
Thank you. Yea, I used the wrong file to show what I was trying to show. Lol
Monotonic simply means the head is traveling in the same direction for each extrusion move. It is interesting that Cura does this more orderly but that isn't a requirement for monotonic. Good video, I think I need this clock for my theater.
Printing face down on glass with a light coating of hairspray does it for me, almost perfect surface quality! Also need just the right z offset to avoid gaps.
I've just started filament printing, and this tip is exactly what I've been looking for 😃
Whenever he says "layer lines" he means "print lines".
"layer lines" are the lines between each layer, which run vertically throughout the print, not across the top layer of the print (which is a single layer)
You had it right when you flipped it upside down, but needed to dial in your settings for the first layer. Dialing in the top layer is good when you need a good top and bottom layer, but this could have been just a good 1st layer.
Although I appreciate the attempt, this could be just 1 or 2 steps:
1. Correct Z height
2. Adjust (first layer) flow/extrusion.
A perfect first layer won’t have any layer lines and will always be better than an ironed top layer
1) Print upside down (and use a build plate with a nice texture)
2) Decrease first layer line width. 0.3 works just fine with stickier PLA, 0.35 works with most materials.You need to watch the first layer, if it rips or lifts, then either increase the width by a bit or use a lower first layer height (0.12mm instead of 0.2mm for example).
3) Increase first layer flow rate to 105-110%
4) Use a different first layer infill pattern that doesn't leave gaps (this depends on geometry, I don't change it for most models). Concentric sometimes works better
Ironing sucks, leaves the surface too shiny, tends to clog the nozzle on some printers and can leave some nasty lines sometimes.
Smooth PEI or garolite/g10/fr4 and printing it upside down is always the solution you should go for if you want a smooth or even mirror-like first layer since it saves time and significant amounts of effort versus ironing. Just gotta dial in Z-offset to not get those awkward gaps
I suggest looking into patterned and mirror finish printing plates, and try the face down option (2) again with the plate designed to give a specific finish. (use slightly higher than normal heat to really let the pattern melt into that first layer( like an extra 5c))
in the preview tab I believe there is an option to show the colors as layer thickness
I would use some of the fancy plates you can get with patterns in them one of the patterns is like carbon fibre which would look good, some of the less obvious plate patterns would also be good. They are generally smooth in texture so a good first layer would give a nice smooth surface with like a printed pattern visual not textured.
18 hours? 😭 Just cut it out of sheet metal
i think, there are some improvements.
try min. 4 top layers, because the infill is peaking through.
put it upside down, like you did, lower the Z a half layerheigh, put a 0.3 bottom layer with 105 to 110 extrusion.
is it possible, that you dont have a abl ? because of the big heigh differenzes.
i use 4 bottom and 5 top layer to vanish the infill peak through and enough stability
its a great idea
That was my take. The lines are caused to a large extent by the top layer sagging.
for smt like this print flipping the model and using a powdered bed is perfect, u dont see any print lines. For other models ironing is good but needs to be calibrated perfectly
Concentric top layer may look great since it is a clock.
On the top layer use a concentric surface pattern for this round object. Otherwise try using a Hilbert curve if using Orca slicer. These tend to give a better top look, imho.
If you do upside down, over extrude the bottom layer. Ie kind of like elephants foot. Also, people have been using special surfaces to get holographic style reflections. P-flat sheets I believe they are called
Simply print the file facedown on the print bed, the fact that your first layer is a bit crappy isn't a good reason to abandon this approach, I can fairly easily get glass smooth glossy prints using this approach.
for a while i couldn't figure out why i wasn't getting perfect ironing anymore.. I installed a BL touch. this basically makes the whole print carry the wavy offset of the bed mesh level though-out the whole print. I put Fade_start: 0.2, Fade_end:1 into my Bed_mesh in my Klipper printer.cfg file to fix the problem. Beautiful top layers, even without ironing.. but of course ironing is better. I also have gone full OCD and trammed the printer like its a machining mill lol. So no matter the direction the nozzle is doing the top layer it looks exactly the same
My bed mesh goes from -0.1350 to 0.2400, carborundum glass bed with thick aluminum heat plate. I print up to 115c bed temps, the glass doesn't take long to start warping and finding a "home" to where it settles
Thats pretty cool. Though i would probably just prime the crap out of it and light sand.
Im definitely going to try the trick for the more curvy prints.
And gotta say, that clock would look pretty sweet with a backlight to bring out the detail.
Thank you. I was thinking about adding that backlight too!
@@VaderDadBuilds right on.
I think you could have saved yourself a lot of time with a smaller project. 👍
In my experience if I see layer lines on the bottom layer it means I'm under extruding, first layer temp too low, or bed too cold. Mostly extrusion. My prints always come off with a perfectly consistent face, occasionally a tiny little knot where the plastic pulled up a quarter millimeter.
You need to print it upside down on a textured plate and use a .2mm first layer
I use PLA+ and the down face is as smooth as a whistle when I use my smooth bed, or has a nice random pattern if I use my patterned bed. My guess is you need to set your extruder temperature slightly higher.
Do the same thing and turned off the fan and the plate on 10c higher than remmonded
Man, this is a simple upside down print. Use the same settings you would with a coaster. The mono top finish was a good insight. Avoid ironing where u can...adds way too much time.
flip it over, face down.... use a smooth heatbed
Try slicing it with Archimedean on the top layer. Way better for objects that are circular
Upside down its the way, but you need to adjust a perfect first layer, looking your prints i think you need to adjust max flow, a perfect calibrated bed and z-hop.
Great tips..
Almost all of this issues already fixed in various latest patches of orca slicer.
One time I need same things I want hide top layer....I have just flip the piece and start with first layer like 0.08 or 0.1 I don't rememb good but if you have good first layer try this flip the piece and put 0.08/0.1 in first layer
hey try setting the exposure of your camera down, looks like the video I'd clipping, reach out if you need help
Some slicer you can change the top layer to 0.1 for finer finish if the adaptive layer height was not doing the job.
For something like this I just have no bottom layer to speed things up.
In your case all you need to do is print it upside down and actually tune your z offset. That looks too far.
Yeah I was going to say the same thing. This is just a simple flip.
OR you could get a PEY bed, print upside down and have a perfectly smooth (or texture of your choice PEY depending) front surface.
Thank you amazing
Eighteen _Fuckin' _*_Hours?!_* 😱
Had to slap this onto my Slicers Build Plate just for the shits and giggles and even with Ironing enabled ( adding another 2h20min ) it would still only take 4h40min!!!
Toss whatever Joke of a 3D Printer you have and get yourself a real Machine! This is outrageous even just hearing about yet alone experiencing it in this day and age of affordable _fast_ 3D Printers 💢
thank you
It's so utterly stupid that monotonic isn't default. Cura used to always do monotonic, but added "optimized" order a few years go, and only added the option to go back after enough people complained... 🤦
effing legend
Next time do face down with a mirror finish build plate
hmm… why not use regular iron on metal sheet which cover entire object?
Upside down should be much better if only you will adjust flow rate, z-offset and Esteps. Your first layer looks a bit underextruded...
Great video what printer are you using
Thank you! I'm using an Ender 3 Max Neo
upside down, set first layer width to 0.35 and infill overlap to 30%. Thank me later
ohh, and if you use a well calibrated machine like mk4, much better
Your face down print looks like your extrusion is too low or your z-offset is too far from the plate. My face down prints are much more even with a proper tuned first layer.
But ultimately, for 2d silhouettes like this, I feel a laser cutter and acrylic sheet is a far superior option. If this is for small business commercial production, an investment in a $500-900usd laser wouldn’t be unreasonable
That's a good point. And it doesn't even have to cost $500-$900. If you already have a 3D printer, you can get a laser head for $150. That's reasonable for a hobbyist. Particularly for a hobbyist who may have upgraded to a different printer, so they have a spare printer sitting there.
Looks like too few top layers. We're seeing where the support walls are.
Did you use Z-hop for the top layer?
Where are you getting the clock pieces at a reasonable price? All the ones I have found are absurdly expensive.
I got a set of 2 for $8 on amazon. That is the best price I found, unless to buy more at a time.
It's waaay more practical to simply print it upside down, with a thicker first layer, than sand it after printing. There is no point in the "no sanding" part of the title. Sanding takes only a few minutes, while printing with "advanced options" makes printing much longer, much more prone to error and to wasting material. This is the kind of "tutorial" that makes me think about that joke of leting the stove always on fire just to avoid using matches to light it up.
Step 1: throw away Cura and use orca slicer.
real
fr
I don't like adaptive layers. It's slow and does odd things.
to see if the bottom layer has printed better than the top you could ve just flipped the thing lol
17 hrs? Is bambu really that much faster lol.
11 hours for that? Are you kidding me. A modern 3-D printer can do that in about 30 minutes.
Уважаемый, просто переверни деталь на сторону лицевой на стол и буквы смени направление. И будет тебе счастье!!!! Сейчас есть красивые столы с офигенным покрытием и не нужен этот геморрой😊 удачи в печати
I dont know man, you were just underextruding
Such a waste of time.
Who uses cura in 2024?
What do you use. Prusaslicer
I do
@@KIDC0SM0S I still use cura because how it work with my setup. idk how cura is bad, as it has certain plugins that make it great.
What I would fix the biggest issue first, trash the Ender and buy a better printer, then you wouldn't have any of these issues and it would print about twice as fast
Man, you wasted my time for nithing. That all old information and already writed in slicer settings.
Lol spends all that time showing us the poor finish layers but then when he gets to step 5 I blinked and missed the view to be able to compare ha ha. So still crap then