*breathing* Also I meant to say WEAKER than Maul level threat at the beginning, wasn't trying to call Darth Maul weak. That'll be a mistake worth a couple thousand dislikes for sure.. Lol. Vader's current suit is designed by HIM, not Sidious. I showed him constructing it on screen and Vader actually gets angry when Sidious even tries to imply he'll construct it himself in the new canon. There is no Sidious nerfing him argument after Kirak and it doesn't make sense since in the new canon Sidious wants Vader to surpass him and live up to his endless potential, not suppress him. In fact, Sidious is upset that Vader was held back by his injuries and grief if anything he tries to empower him. Different narratives. Yes Vader still has endless potential and the potential to surpass Sidious this is stated in new canon as well.
The fact Kylo Ren constantly pushed himself to be like his grandfather, without ever succeeding, is a testament to Darth Vader’s superiority Kylo Ren’s portrayed as someone with a lot of room for improvement, despite innate talent and power. Vader, on the other hand, has destroyed countless Jedi masters and expert duelists Like the guidebook at 17:33 states, EP VII Kylo would have difficulty defeating EP V Luke, who wasn’t even considered a Jedi yet Sure, Kylo increased his powers in Episodes VIII and IX, but so did Luke, who completed his training by EP VI. Even then, he was still inferior to Darth Vader and only won because of his father’s confliction Darth Vader definitely stomps
@@kakashihatake6052 the difference is that Luke was his son who was good while Ben is his grandson who’s evil Vader will kill someone he sees as himself: a failure
@@PhoenixAce Imagine this : Kylo is dueling vader who is just toying with him , not even taking him as a real threat .Vader finally stops playing with his food and cuts kylo arm off, then he lifts him up in the air with the force. As kylo struggles to set himself free he realises that he never even stood a chance he finally asks" Why? All I wanted is to big like you ! Vader looks at him and for the first time in a long time he starts laughing , he would cry if he could , then he stops . For a moment Kylo felt as if the world stopped the only sound that could be heard is vader breathing . Vader finally says looking him straight at him, enraged and he would say" Only a fool would want to be me like me" Then finally he snaps his neck , being disgusted that someone would want a life like his
@@ph4ntom_39 they were bad, like most characters were badly written I mean it’s Disney so we can’t expect anything. But the nostalgia and Vader parallels saved it. I mean Vader/Anakin is like the Star Wars Jesus who doesn’t like him
@@ph4ntom_39 Favorite villains of all time- 1. Ainz Ooal Gown AKA Momonga from Overlord. (Albeit, he’s the main protagonist, but damn he’s one evil badass). 2. Darth Vader (Because Darth Vader) 3. Sauron (From Lord of the Rings in case nobody knows) 4. Light from Death Note (an obvious choice). And I can’t think of a fifth off the top that really stood out to me as being inherently evil yet totally badass. I don’t know, can Kratos be considered a villain? Or is he more of an antihero? [EDIT]: I found number 5, totally forgot about her … Tanya from Saga of Tanya the Evil (total badass).
@@kingofallgodzillas9901 out of all things that a human is capable of saying, out of all ways of expression and means of communication that mankind has come up with, all you have is "lol". Shameful.
We know a whole lot about Vader since the character has been around for 40+ years though...Kylo is still rather new and we don’t know all his feats as of yet...but they are hinted at in canon a lot, the entire galaxy knew him as *“The Jedi Killer”* and it’s not public information that Kylo is Ben Solo or anyone from Luke’s temple so that title didn’t come from the destruction of the temple it came later, which suggests that he has also been hunting and killing Jedi throughout the galaxy, there’s a whole 6 years of time that Kylo was on the dark side prior to TFA that we know next to nothing about...we don’t know how many Jedi or force users fell to his hand in that time period but we do know there’s no sign of them in the sequels past Luke and Rey, that suggests Kylo’s probably killed a whole bunch of Jedi himself... The canon comics show him taking down a damn Zillo Beast singlehandedly and bringing a whole planet to heel, they refer to him as the best duelist in the entire Jedi Temple, undefeated...they show him handling three Jedi his age at the same time while they’re trying to kill him and he’s just defending himself not trying to hurt them, still he slaps them around like they’re nothing and even accidentally killing one through reflex...they show him killing the former master of the Knights Of Ren in single combat while supposedly force lightning is literally pulsing from his body...his eyes go Sith yellow when bleeding his crystal and he pours so much power into it that it cracks, he did this in one go...even Vader couldn’t bleed his crystal straight away. People really tend to downplay Kylo big time but there is a legit case to be made that the Kylo Ren from TROS could take Vader in a fight...and that case is just going to grow stronger and stronger as time goes on and we inevitably see more of Kylo in comics and other series’...I mean some people refuse to even acknowledge that Kylo is a top tier force user...they won’t even give him that...even though he’s had more training and experience by the events of TROS than Anakin had by the events of ROTS, (Anakin in ROTS is 23, Kylo by TROS is 30 and both started training at around the same age) I mean it’s just sad really...you say anything good about that character, mention any of his feats, even suggest he could defeat anyone from the past two trilogies and you get hopped on by a mob of screeching “fans”.
@@Ivbo I still don’t think kylo can take Vader but maybe a older kylo would be able to because he lacks the power to turn his rage or anger to power while Vader can that’s the vary point of the dark side that’s the reason maul didn’t die while being cut and half and why Vader lives through most of the worst injuries and Vader is way better then kylo at dueling even using the force to lift and move his body while dueling or fighting and him being a adaptive duelist like paptine and having more experience because him having dueling sessions with sideous,mace windu,yoda,and obi wan.he is also way more durable and smarter then him as well in the force.I find it kinda bs that kylo would beat Luke because he has a higher midicolian count and is better at dueling, but I believe mando Luke or movie Luke would beat him. One thing Seth got wrong is that Vader did kill the zillo beast the same way kylo did while only having one stormtrooper left and Vader/anakin also has a higher midocoloian count then him and because his prosthetics he also is more stronger then him but a adult kylo maybe able to take him in a fight and Vader could of easily livied and survived the force lightning but he chose not too and we seen him where his suit was fucked and he used the force on his injuries and his whole body.
@@Ivbo and yet he gets beaten up by a random person with no training who lived in the desert her whole life. The problem with the sequels and their lore is... none of it makes sense.
You called me a madman, 5 years ago I was banned from Seth's discord server because I asked for a Star wars video. Today, I finally celebrate my victory.
The fact that Kylo was distracted and nerfed by his pain shows that he is a weaker than standard sith. Countless sith in the series are able to amp themselves being driven by hatred that is brought by pain. And that was my understanding of why Kylo was hitting his wound repeatedly in the fight against Rey and Finn, to boost his hatred and amp his power. So I feel like either he is really weak, or is not capable of a basic sith skill
@Γιώργος Παρασκευόπουλος is episode 5 where Vader cut lukes hand off? If so Vader knew he wasn't ready and also the circumstances r different.. in this one they r Infront of the emperor whilst in episode 5 it's just a "1v1" and Vader is just trying to get him to join him... I don't remember much of episode 5 saw that ages ago but pretty sure there were examples of him trynna get Luke to turn to the dark side n in this episode him provoking Luke and getting him to use his anger as a weapon was just another way of getting luke to join the DS
@@brontome yes but no he has high midichlorians but as we Learned it doesn’t matter high of your midchlorian count you have you can still lose to someone who has lower midichlorians a perfect example would be nihilus he was defeated by people who had low midichiorians The reason why Skywalker was considered the chosen one was when he was a little kid his count was at the lvl of a Padawan as he got older his power was at the lvl of a Jedi master Yoda and nihilus are probably the only Force users in the Star Wars universe that we know have a midichlorian count above 50k while Anakin in his prime was 20k and Vader 30k+
@@chanceofbliss8175 Original characters where good, Yoda and Obi wan where fine the prequels and so was qui gon jin. Anakin is much better in other material. Kylo ren was poorly handled and was always a joke it seemed. I can believe he is more powerful than Vader or even Maul.
My point was really just talking about the episodes 7,8,9. Nobody in that trilogy was well handled. Even the prequels did a better job of portraying characters except for anakin. And even then I like him more than all the MCs in the eps 7-9
@@chanceofbliss8175 yeah i understand, Anakin's character needed better direction and script i think the actor was good when given the chance to properly act.
@@MementoMoriIlluminatusDrStrang that’s what the whole point about doubts and fears is. Doubt nerfs force users because they can’t focus and control the force as easily. It’s not that he couldn’t kill them, it’s more he doubted himself because of his environment of obi wan doubting anakin position as master, the council looking down on him. Etc. Short answer tho he pretty much did end the war by himself, killed the trade federation, put palps into power, then didn’t argue when he was to be arrested. He only had issues about mace killing palps, and we saw how that ended up.
In canon and in legends, vader outclasses and outdoes Kylo’s feats even during his lowest points. He’s a master duelist with decades of combat experience against jedi and dark side users alike, his armor (despite having some weaknesses) grants him protection from injuries that would either cripple or outright kill Kylo, his force abilities are very potent in their control, precision and magnitude compared to Kylo. With that all being said, there’s a strong chance that the fight doesn’t even progress beyond lightsaber dueling because Vaders massive edge in that area may very well finish off Kylo outright. A djem so strike, an ataru flourish or a Makashi stab, the end result is all the same: Kylo Ren dead and the battle being over.
Kylo is much more powerful in the force than vader was. Vader's suit and cybernetics hindered his force ability greatly (he was missing 4 limbs and all of the midichlorians that would be in those limbs). We see that kylo has immense power in the force, being able to freeze people and blaster bolts, use psychometry, and interrogate people in his mind like Legilimancy in Harry Potter. However, I would say that vader is the much better duelist. That being said, I think focused Kylo, being able to use both the light and dark side of the force like his potential states, would be able to defeat vader.
Fought Ventress, Savage Oppress, Dooku countless times (and killed him), apprentice to Sidious, the chosen one, could hold down the Mortis Gods, killed countless Jedi in the temple and afterwards, held back the ocean, insane force powers, mastered all 7 forms Vs Couldn't beat Rey
@@dreamwar1586 Kyle got beaten by her when she hasn't even used a lightsaber before. Kylo stands no chance against vader who is able to kill jedi masters in his weakened state.
even while heavily injured and conflicted, it's hard to believe Kylo would lose to people who have never touched a lightsaber in their lives. while Vader hunts down Jedi every second he breathes
They’re still well versed in melee combat. It’s not like they never used a melee weapon before. Rey grew up on a post apocalyptic planet with a staff and Finn had training with the baton that FN-2199 had.
@@1065chris a lightsaber would be way different tho. the blade is practically weightless, so it would be far different from a baton or a staff, top-heavy weapons. Even if that doesn't affect too much, it still would create a difference in skill between someone who's trained heavily and someone who has never used such a weapon before
@@1065chris OK good point. I actually wasn't being against anything. I just fuckin hate the fact that finn isn't allowed to be a morally grey character because instead of being a storm trooper who had to slaughter hundreds, he's just a frickin janitor that was promoted
@@gurbaz7764 it is canon. He beat the ender aka a giant monster that wiped out an entire civilization with ease. He even killed it and just went on with his merry day.
Dude… he could solo every damn character, side character, extra, etc. from every single movie and show (minus palpatine since the dude’s ridiculously overpowered). At the same time.
@@that1cat999 well I mean Vader probably could kill mister crispy face to if his suit wasn't literally designed to let Palpatine kill him aswell as in legends vaderbhad the option to upgrade to a robotic suit that wouldn't cause him constant pain so he would be able to freely move without limitation but he wouldn't be as strong whith the Darkside I think if he got that upgrade he'd be able to turn Palpatine into sushi because who needs to choke a mf when you can just sprint at them and stab them
@@shadowknightgaming1874 The constant pain actually helped Vader become stronger in the darkside of the force, because his hatred for Sidius kept on growing every time he moved. But if the suit didn't amplify lightning damaged, where Palpating is most proficient at. Vader could kill Palpatine earlier in the series
One moment I always think of is when Vader first meets Luke in the comics. He uses the force to yank the lightsaber out of Luke’s hand, mocks him, and is about to one-shot him before noticing it’s Anakin’s lightsaber (than Han attacks him with an ATAT which he goes on to destroy). I know Kylo’s hurt, but having so much trouble against untrained people using a lightsaber for the first and second time is just embarrassing for someone supposedly as powerful as him.
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic lol. He obviously had a good amount of training with Luke (more than Luke first got anyway lol) and Snoke supposedly taught him too, so he shouldn't have had anywhere near as much trouble with either Finn or Rey in their first fights. He just can't make full use of the dark side since he's still pulled by the light. Opposite of Anakin. So fighting Vader, who is essentially fully in the dark, he wouldn't even be able to use his own full power against Vader, let alone beat him.
@@aliveandwellinisrael2507 *Edit I made this comment before watching the video* I'm not one to defend the sequel trilogy, far from it but one thing that always gets me when people hate on Kylo for taking that L against Finn and Rey was he was shot by chewies bowcaster which earlier in the film sent two or three (don't remember exact number) first order storm troopers flying back, and Kylo literally got hit in a pretty vital spot on the body, so I can see his loss at the end of the force awakens reasonable, anything after that though is just Disney being lame
You can attempt to make the argument "oh kylo just went through a lot the 6 hours prior, cut him some slack" but then you can remember Anakin fought his former master and was out muscling him after days of no sleep taking out other jedi earlier.
Sorry... But even if he had been shot by a bow caster there is NO WAY that DARTH VADER would have EVER have allowed himself to get his ass kicked by a girl who had only just been told that The Force exists and had never used a lightsaber before. Just.... No way.
Well you gotta give Kylo his credit too, he’s severely downplayed due to how he’s presented in the shitty movies, like his dueling abilities and raw force power.
@James Davis agreed Kylo is literally shit tier force user and even worse duelist. He literally has nothing special to him. Luke in previous movies if Lucas made them still, would have destroyed kylo in a second or two
But the argument falls flat. Anakin was The Chosen One as he was destined to bring balanced, and Vader manages this by pretty much removing force users in general. The clone wars series even foreshadows this (canonically) when Anakin is meeting with Force Beings, and from their the light and dark side embodiments father hints at balance being found by an option off eliminating the scale of light and dark in general: which Vader mostly does. Vader was considered incredibly gifted with the force, but so was Kylo. Outside of being gifted with grand force sensitivity/potential, Vader’s title as Chosen One is only important for his destiny, rather than his capabilities as a fighter. We have even seen Anakin lose many times despite being the Chosen One against Jedi. And while this list has highlighters light Tyranus (during clone wars) and Obi (in RotS), it still demonstrates that being Chosen is not an anti-Jedi effect. Vader needs other aspects to make and take a win. And while those other aspects can be argued, they were not the bases of this argument. - comment was kinda funny though 👍
@@6XXXThanatosRaysXXX6 Your missing my point. As I primarily discuss the fallacy of 'the chosen one' title being an instant win card. Rather than debating if Vader could take Kylo or not.
Vader was formally trained when it still meant something, was a war hero and general, victor of numerous battles over other force users. Kylo would not have even likely raised his pulse.
"You will not stop me! Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!" Sideous to Yoda.....The reason he never killed Palpatine wasn't due to his strength, it was due to Vader's fears and doubts.
YEA IF VADER WANTED TO KILL PALPTINE ALL PALPTINE NEEDS TO SAY IS I KILLED PADME VADER WOULD FUCKIN RIP PALPTINE INTO PEICE'S LITERALY TEAR HIS BODY APART BLOOD EVERYWHERE ARMS ON THE FLOOR EYEBALLS SMASHED INTO WALLS ETC
Palpatine tampered with Vader's armour to prevent him from reaching his full potential. They could've made a better armour for Vader but purposefully chose not to, this is why Vader became slower after he wore the armour. This in turn forced him to develop a new form of light sabre combat so that it can compensate with his now heavier yet stronger body.
Regardless of what people think on who would win this battle, a fully realized potential anakin skywalker is the most powerful being in the Star Wars universe that is unquestioned. Sad that we never got to see it.
@@DaKillaCroc859 Star Killer at his peak(Which he also never reached) could definitely handle Vader and most likely even Sidious. But at most Galen at his peak would be like half the power of a fully realized potential Anakin.
Luke is a god in legends and I believe anakin would have been on the same level if he still had all of physical body but idk if he could handle some of the sith like darth bane darth nihilus and exar kun
@@DaKillaCroc859 they are both very powerful but someone else pointed out how powerful vader is if he wasn't in that suit he would stomp Starkiller and Reven but I think at least Starkiller is his equal in combat but not the force
He doesn't. But he does. You see if Vader was still Flesh and Blood, his potential would be limitless. Abaloth, the Infinite Emperor, Lord Vititate, sidious, Luke... He would be untouchable. But the suit limited him. Due to it being electronic, and his hands being robotic, using force lighting or powers similar to it is (in some sources) called impossible, and in other sources is called Self Sabotage. Kylo didn't have these limits. If this was Vader BEFORE the suit, then Kylo wouldn't have more potential. But since he has it, it's a big limit.
@@tasonjodd5151 New canon has nerfed how much Vader's suit limits his potential. A lot of the writers now are saying he's currently stronger than Sidious. In legends, your argument might hold a little more weight. But at the same time, Vader was trained by the best and grew in times of war. On top of that, the sheer fact that Kylo is the offspring, of the offspring, diluted by the blood of a non-force sensitive, of the person who was birthed by the force - he should have way less of a connection to the force than... the person who was actually birthed by the force. It's simple logic, really. And it might seem like we're angry. But we have right to be. It's so disrespectful for a writer to be given the privilege to contribute to such a legendary series. Only to disrespect its mythology and established characters by making a character stronger and more special than the person who is supposed to be the strongest and most special.
@Patient Devil No, but Vader was trained more often and by better force sensitives (especially considering he was trained by soy Disney Luke) and experienced far more combat, even in his short time with an able body. Kylo in comparison did way less and shouldn't be stronger by any means.
In the new canon series it's explained that Vader's suit is neither an amp nor a nerf but more of a trade off. While he can no longer perform the complicated acrobatics he once did as a Jedi, but allows him to lean heavily into raw physical power instead. Naturally, this also forced him to readjust his saber style. When he fights Kerak, he's still getting used to both his suit and his new fighting style, so he naturally ends up far more powerful than he was then.
Vader. Easily. Maybe Kylo might eventually reach the level that Vader did. But he never got anywhere close to that level during the runtime of the movies. I don't think he ever even got close to being the level Anakin was during the Clone Wars movie.
@@Genesisthefirst109 Honestly, I'm inclined to agree. As much as Darth Maul was the weakest of the three Sith in the prequels, he still strikes me as being far more powerful and capable than any character in the sequel trilogy. He's certainly a better combatant.
@@seraphinaaizen6278 Darth Maul isn't even that weak for his era and is the character really being low-balled here. Sidious himself saw Dooku as nothing more than a puppet or stepping stone to reach Anakin, but actually described the loss of Maul as unfortunate and lamented the wasted apprentice. He says this about Dooku in the same sentence he talks about Maul meaning he is literally saying Maul was a better Sith than Dooku or at least that he had greater plans for him and considered him worthy of succeeding him via Rule of Two succession. We also have to take into account Rule of Two scaling which logically would make Maul at least many times stronger than Darth Bane. Maul is easily in the top five most powerful Sith Lords to ever exist. "But he lost to Ashoka!" I hear you say, and while this is true we're talking about a Maul that has been sliced in half and is now a cyborg. If Vader lost most of his force potential due to the loss of his limbs and being nearly burned to death, then Maul lost a comparative amount of Force potential. This is why Maul goes from being able to fight Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan at the same time to being beaten by Ashoka (and it was still a tough fight for her). This is also just canon information on Maul. If we go with Legends he has to be many times greater or at least comparable to Darth Revan who was comparable to or weaker than Darth Bane. What this means is that you can make the argument that legends Maul is very possibly as strong or stronger than Emperor Vitiate from the KOTOR era or at least stronger than Darth Malgus, Darth Jadus, or even Darth Nihilus.
@@LightAndDarkMdness02 I suspect that, in the case of Maul, he had greater potential than Dooku did, but was not actually anywhere near as powerful. Indeed, we can say with certainty that he wasn't anywhere near as powerful, because he was defeated by a young and green Obi-Wan, when a much more experienced and powerful Obi-Wan was casually tossed aside by Dooku. However, Dooku was an old man and had very likely hit his peak. He wasn't likely to get much stronger than he already was, whereas Darth Maul was still young and had room to grow. If he'd lived longer and hadn't lost half his body, it's not impossible that he would have surpassed Dooku in time. " If we go with Legends" Yeah, let's not do that.
@@seraphinaaizen6278 I disagree slightly. Dooku was pressed by a weaker Savage and Assajj Ventress. He only gained the upper hand after Savage flipped the fuck out and ruined the teamwork with Assajj. Dooku nearly lost to the combined teamwork of Savage and Assajj Ventress; Savage and Ventress being many, many times weaker than Darth Maul. A crippled Maul with less than half of his Force potential was considered by Sidious himself to be, "A rival." He never even considered Dooku as such.
My interpretation: Kylo is a terrible duelist, practically speaking. His form should be Djem So from his fanboyism and strong strikes, as well as lack of movement when he duels. But not only did he not get much training compared to people like Maul and even mid tier Jedi like Aayla Secura, Vader knows exactly how to screw with Kylo because he used the exact same style as a Jedi. He was a brazen, cocky form V user who got schooled by Dooku and Kenobi. By the time he made a better suit, he would have already had to adapt his style for a clunkier body, making a mix of forms V and IV, both of them probably seen by Kylo, but he would have no way to know how to counter it. As for force powers...Vader is the chosen one. Kylo has no chance.
@@coolcoll1262 I mean, they even spit in Kylo's face with the: "bested by a girl who had never even held a lightsaber, YOU FOOL!" so I don't know why everyone thinks Kylo would even *remotely* put up a challenge against...anyone, really. I'd even say the Luke who didn't finish his training with Yoda would beat Kylo (and we all saw how bad Vader kicked Luke's ass, and that was just tough love). Especially since Rey beat Kylo and she knew about the Force for like a few hours. As my boy Luke said in Mandalorian: "Talent without training is nothing."
Isn't Vader also a practitioner of form 2( Makashi) now, as he adapted to more rigid movements as well? I mention this as this precision form would be the perfect counter to Kylos reckless form V with wide swings.
@@spartanoreo5075 According to most legend sources, Makashi is actually weak to Djem So, as the lacking power in Makashi lets it get blunt forced through by a Djem So practitioner. Dooku had to address this by using a sweeping attack to the feet, a weak spot for the non-movement form V.
@@goroakechi6126 This is true, but I was mainly referring to Bens reckless wide swinging form of Djem so, rather than a master or capable practitioner. But I understand that in most cases Djem So's heavy offensive and staggering strikes may overwhelm the precision of Makashi, like with Count dooku and Anakin.
It’s a trade off. Vader never lost potential given that Maul did not lose power. George’s statements have always been weird and vague such as Obi wan being far more powerful than Vader in new hope.
@@joshuazeppeli5199 This is why SW is kind of annoying tbh. No one has any idea of power level and characters flip around every movie. If Anakin/Vader is the chosen and was suppose to be the most powerful, then he should always be, or at least be the most powerful for a long time until someone comes along that makes sense.
Feels as if Kylo is intentionally beefed up or “OP” just to scale to Vader which obviously proves that Vader was stronger and makes the comparison harder.
@Laith Rajha the knights of ren don’t compare to the countless times Vader while in his robo suit meaning he is slower compared to his natural body fought multiple Jedi knights at once, just saying but nice reply!
@Laith Rajha I know that the Star Wars material is pretty convoluted but the general consensus is that because of the heavy suit he wore he was not as agile or fast as his original body which is why he adopted a different lightsaber style which allowed for more power behind his blows to make up for the lack of speed
@Laith Rajha And what is the base speed he is basing that statement off of exactly and If that we’re true why did Vader change his lightsaber style for no reason I just want too know I don’t read the comics like that
@Laith Rajha What? Palpatine in the comics intentionally made Vader weaker than he used to. Pre-Vader Anakin was the best lightsaber duelists during the clone wars with exception of Yoda and Mace Windu. He mastered both Form IV: Ataru and Form V: Djem - So/Shien. Both fighting style required the practitioner to have incredible speed and physical strength. After Anakin became Darth Vader, he can't use form IV anymore because the armour prevents him from doing any acrobatic movements, so he created a variant of Form V which is originally was based on defending with solid blocks and parries, then immediately countering with strong counterattacks and ripostes. With Vader's new variant, he focused more on sheer power rather than quick counter attacks. His fighting style became more direct than before due to his cybernetics.
I think Bane's quote from the "Dark Knight Rises" film perfectly encapsulates the difference between Kylo & Vader. Bane~ “Ah you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark (after being tempted by Snoke once). I was born in it (born into slavery), molded by it (mother died in his arms, wife died, padawan left him, etc. The list goes on & on.) I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!”
Darth Vader lived a life of war. Training under some of the best Jedi’s of all time. (mace, yoda, Obi, many more) rose up through the ranks in the middle of the clone wars regularly fighting sith, dark side users, and army’s of droids. Cheated death countless times against dooku, one of the best duelist of all time, eventually cutting his head off with his own light saber. The chosen one.. The one who was supposed to bring balance to the force and then slaughtered hundreds of Jedi’s right after embracing the dark side. There are too many feats to type out that happened after his transformation. Darth vader is a battle hardened VET who was half machine and fought like he wanted to die. Ren... a battle virgin. Luke, Ren, Ray, these people didn’t know what true war was, they never saw it the way darth vader did. Even if Luke came right out and directly said he thought Ren was more powerful it wouldn’t matter, from viewers of the whole timeline we know more. Ren has his cool force abilities that we’ve never seen but it doesn’t mean he’s more powerful in the force itself. Duel? Ren would get gutted in a matter of seconds. Force? Vader would break his neck with a force choke before ren even activated his mid-evil lightsaber.
@@HoHhoch very true, I’ve done a lot of lore studying since I made this , but I still do believe it wasn’t on the level of darth vader counting his clone wars experience as well.
@@brianmoore4240 I mean, Luke was 19 in C4 and Anakin 9 in C1, the former started his "warrior path" at a much later age then his father, just that makes a huge difference between them...
Kylo got stomped by an untrained Rey, what do you think a prime Vader would do to him? I know you touched on this in the video, but being nerfed by the force due to conflicting thoughts in his mind just makes Kylo weak in the force
@@znahejebe4063 well he was shocked after killing his father and he just stood their wondering if what he did Really happened so he was caught off guard
Regardless of power, Vader would win because he is patient... He learned self-control from his defeat in Mustafar, something Kylo does not have...despite losing multiple times
@@bruggger6287 Literally non of these matters in the least..all it would take in the past is lucas to come up with another bad idea & nowadays, disney with star wars has nothing but bad ideas movie wise..
In terms of raw force power: Darth Vader would win (He has superior command of the Darkside). In terms of lightsaber skill: Darth Vader would win hands down (From what I can observe Kylo Ren lightsaber style is similar to that of 5th Brother's and 6th Brother's)
The original legends lore Darth Vader wasn't that strong and I think that Kylo would have a decent shot. But under the new Disney canon lore, Darth Vader is so much stronger than he used to be.
From even a training standpoint, Anakin got official training from an actual jedi master On coruscant, then direct training from the strongest sith in the series, whereas Kylo only got passed-on notes from a jedi informally trained and indirect orders from a sith in hiding. Vader's moves are methodical and polished, whereas Kylo swings about his lightsaber in wild, flailing swings. Given their shown power and lineages, I'd say they're about medi-chlorian Equal; I'd say Vader Wins.
Tbf he got shot by Chewbacca's bow caster and was really conflicted about why he killed his father (or something) and as he said confliction is a HUGE nerf
@@Kenzie1-l1n Dark side users become stronger from pain That’s why palpatine made Vader’s suit painful to wear It’s also why kylo was beating his wound throughout the fight
@@Kenzie1-l1n i mean vader never had legs or arms, were unconfortable, painful, badly design, he didnt have lungs and they guy had a serious depression
@@theantianimeassociation7574 but he also killed powerful individuals. Kylo Ren has the jedi kill count of 2 or 3 (which were not even knights or masters but rather padawans) and he even struggled against the emperor's guards. Anakin literally made the embodiments of the force kneel before him and has killed several Jedi masters and a crapload of padawans and younglings. Also he literally yeeted Palpatine while being electrocuted.
@@demosxn6722 bruh, I'm not even a fanatic about dtarwasrs but I do know enough about Vader and kylo Ren to say that Vader easily shockes this one home.
Keep in mind; Vader in his prime took on the entire jedi academy with a couple of clones Kylo in his prime could not even kill a scavenger who had little less than a week days of training
Yeah. I hate how Disney handled his charecter. He was trained by both sidious through snoke, and luke. Making him pretty powerful, but because strong female charecter he loses.
Yeah, it was like 10 hours of no training whatsoever. A little less than a week?? Rey got the saber like halfway through 7 where she was imprisoned by Kylo, then escapes, then wins against Kylo who barely fought off a stormtrooper. Her training amounts to tripping homeless, telling Han how to fly his own ship, and of course out-interogating the supposedly powerful Kylo Ren, who's only feat in the franchise is freezing a bullet, unless you count losing, he's pretty good at that. The bullet scene adds too much inconsistency to Kylo and should be cut, he couldn't even repeat it again like when he was shot at by the bowgun. He fought worse than Rey in the Throne Room, and again against Sideous. He's just bad.
In the original trilogy, we never get to see Vader's real power. In the sequels, Anakin is strong but it's only hinted at that he's the most powerful. It could have been so much better
Ya and this is why SW is so disappointing. He should have been the Thanos of the SW universe. Able to take down entire teams of enemies and achieve anything he desired. This is also what happens when you make the strongest person in the universe a bad guy in your good vs evil story. You make him appear weaker than he actually is.
In one corner: The chosen one who held back the embodiments of the light and the dark side of the force, dismantled the galactic republic, has a higher midichlorian count than yoda and paplatine. In the other corner: His emo grandson who lost a duel to an ex stormtrooper and the worst duelist in the galaxy.
What do you mean lost a duel to the ex storm trooper he was going easy on them both while he was injured by a weapon that could blow up groups of storm Troopers and was conflicted about killing his father which was a nerf like bro after Finn hit him he actually took the fight seriously and immediately destroyed Finn
@@michaelarias3310 This is true. He beats her handedly in RoS and only loses because his mom dies and he feels it across the galaxy, giving Rey an opening lol.
The worst is that the sequel trilogy actually had some interesting characters that could have been expanded so much, but the Mouse doesn't care about that.
If EP. 9 wasn't what it is, it'd be so much better. There was ZERO buy-in, no character development in the supporting cast, dumb retconning, and no not heavily clichéd main character development in the entire movie. EP. 7 had it's ups and downs, but was forgivable, and EP. 8 generated some intrigue. Could have been great...
@Airock the Great the social justice thing was just Disney tryna slap a coat of paint of some trash. They hired a diverse cast but none of the characters were worth a damn. Finn’s character was just following a white woman around for 3 movies and we barely saw any of Poe’s character. What irks me now is that some people think diverse casting is what caused this movie to fail but if you changed all the main cast to white people it’s still just a bunch of trash
Vader stomps, I have no idea why anyone would even consider Kylo. Vader has plenty of more experience and raw force power than kylo. It’s been proven many times. Vader’s feats and Kylos don’t compare at all. Vader with no lightsaber beating a Jedi master said to be the strongest etc, while kylo hasn’t really fought anyone but fin and Rey which don’t compare tbh
Vader has lost his max potential due to his body parts getting cut off but he is still one of the strongest force users he meditates and has come much closer to the force
I would argue that. Maul would get bullied by kylo. Not only is he the grandson of the strongest force entity ever born(which if even a fraction of that beings potential fell to kylo would be more than enough to murder maul), but he was also trained by the strongest grandmaster the jedi ever knew, and snoke(the guy with more force knowledge than even sidious, who trained maul). The only thing you really got against kylo is that he lost to rey, but even sidious lost to her, and I'd be willing to bet money that she'd beat vader(who we all know for a fact would erase maul). It's kinda what happens when a mary sue fights literally anyone. They just win If we judge purely off training, kylo has an undoubtable edge over maul. Like I'm convinced kylo could beat maul with an electrical stick(like vader did to that one jedi master).
@@liambrasier6590 mother talzin was powerful. that was maul's mom. by your argument, maul and ben are equals and that my friend makes no sense because legends existed and some of that is canon
Vader has the most diverse and some of the best force feats in all of star wars canon. He’s crushed AT-ATs used the force to swim through and survive being hit by a giant tsunami of lava on mustafar, Shown precision manipulation of the force among the most complex we’ve seen anywhere in canon , using the force to navigate through light speed, manipulating his empty suit with subtle movements that were life-like, redirecting in flight missiles, stopping bombs from detonating right in front of him, putting a ship back together with the force, created force fields strong enough to resist various explosions and debris, survived entire buildings collapsing seemingly unharmed, survived an actual direct lightning strike, taken down his own Zillo-beast Kaiju like creature single handedly called the ENDER, defeated countless Jedi and inquisitors casually, faced an entire rebel army squadron in the Vader down comic, and much, much more. Canon has really been dedicated to creating many comics exploring Vader’s internal struggle and power, and as of right now, not enough comics/ books have been released to give Kylo similar attention. I think it will take more source material until we can get a more definitive and fair answer to the Kylo vs Vader fight. Vader just has too many feats to his name right now, and while he does have a few anti feats to help balance it out, they are drowned out by the incredible things he’s been recorded accomplishing.
Darth Vader also defeated the Jedi Battlemaster Cin Drallig during the Jedi Temple Attack in Ep III. Drallig was the temple lightsaber instructor and head of security, as well as one of the most skilled swordsmen in the Jedi Order. It's even more impressive that Vader/Anakin beat him while striking down his padawans who fought alongside their master. You can see Anakin fending off Drallig's swings while choking a female padawan when Obi-Wan looks at the Jedi Temple security footage
@@nick-sx5ob Actually, every feat I've listed is from Disney Canon! Here's a list of some of my sources: *Lords* *of* *The* *Sith* novel from 2015 which has incredible Vader speed feats in particular. *Thrawn:* *Alliances,* a 2018 novel that showcases Vader's precision and creativity with the force.(suit manipulation, lightspeed navigation etc.) *Star* *Wars* *Vol* *2* comic Issue #2 from 2015 is the AT-AT Feat *Darth* *Vader* *2015* comic. Includes him creating potent force shields, redirecting missiles, numerous duel feats, etc. *Vader* *Down* 2015 that is best known for when he takes on an entire rebel army squadron, company, and Battalion. *Darth* *Vader:* *Dark* *Lord* *of* *the* *Sith* comic from 2017. My personal favorite which is probably responsible for Vader's most impressive and diverse feats. (lava/ water ocean survival, missile deflection, ancient sith lord and powerful Jedi master fights, endured lighting strike, reconstructed exploded ship, inquisitor stomp, etc) And finally *Vader* *-* *Dark* *Visions* 2019 comic where he defeats the Giant Kaiju-like monster. All comics were released by Marvel and there are even more with great feats, and besides looking up the dates, these are just the ones that come to mind. Disney has made it so Canon Vader has better relative feats than legends, which is definitely surprising. I'd recommend checking some of them out, especially the 2017 Vader comic if your interested! Hope you have a great day!
@@yokenshi4869 no not the same anakin was literally born from the force as generations go kylo is just human with a great connection to the force since anakin->leia->kylo no where near raw force potential as vader/anakin
@@alexdeghost2729 The way i see it she ain't proved herself enough like Boba has that's almost like saying Finn could beat Fett which we know he can't.
Only if he disciplined himself as thoroughly as he did post amputation; the biggest reasons Vader was so terrifying are in tandom the necessary refinement of his force powers into near surgical level precision as opposed to his near barbaric bludgeoning through combatants because he didn't have to train to be strong in the force pre mustafar; alongside his constant agony from his ever present injuries and intentionally sadistic suit bringing him great power in the dark side through pain. Had Anakin (or early Vader if you will) won against Obi Wan it would be a much longer process for him to become so skilled as opposed to gifted in the force.
Anakin at his full potential had the power to one-hand not one, but TWO omniversal Force Gods who can literally manipulate the fabric of the Force itself, and made them both kneel. Even someone like Vitiate and Nihilus, Sith Lords who can devour entire galaxies' worth of life force without breaking a sweat can't defeat the goddamn Chosen One, even Anakin as an older teen could decimate Kylo.
I still haven't seen the sequel trilogy, but even I know that Darth Vader would have no issue with curb stomping Kylo Ren. Darth Vader was able to hunt down most of the remaining Jedi even while being held back after having all of his limbs cut off and becoming mechanical and his suit causing him a lot of discomfort on his stubs.
@@XenophonQ yeah the Vader fanboys will say anything to make him look better in every way. I like both but I honestly do know Vader would win, Kylo would put up a good fight though.
I’m pretty interested in seeing this even though I’m convinced it’s Vader Edit: After watching this I’d say the result is fair, but the Vader fanboy within me shall place them on the same level rather than saying episode 9 Kylo could beat him
I share this sentiment, I'd probably still say vader has the upper hand vs either rey or kylo if all things being equal (which i believe vader is stronger) vader has much more expereince fighting other lightsaber users
It's stupid to honestly place them on both scales. Vader has double the life experience that kylo could ever had, even when you account for both having training as jedi and sith. Comparing them is comparing the classic dinosaur vs ant scenario. It's simply impossible. Though on a lesser scale if vader wants to test kylo's force abilities, though he would just eventually be killed by them. Canon Vader is still on a much higher level
In Star Wars, it’s nowhere near that simple. You can have all the power, but it’s your training and skill that determines how strong you are. Such as, we know Anakin’s potential was far more than anyone else. His midiclorian count was the highest ever recorded. But he was weaker than Yoda, Mace Windu, even though he had the bigger number. In an actual fight, Vader is the winner, 9/10 times. He’s a far superior duelist, with a fighting type Kylo will have never seen, because he invented it himself. Vader is cold and calculating, an experienced fighter who has been in hundreds of battles. He can and will out think Kylo. His force abilities are far more boned through decades of use and mastery. And the thing that people most forget is that he is a Sith Lord. He can manipulate Kylo, enrage him, throw him off and use his own emotions against him, making him far easier prey, and we know Kylo to be the type to fall to this. We also know Vader to be the type to talk trash in a fight. Vader is the far superior combatant.
@@acheroneclypse277 isn’t there a comic where Vaders avatar is seen literally soloing the avatar of every Jedi that would’ve existed around order 66 I’d say that already proves who wins
Kylo Ren killed a big lizard. Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader got the literal embodiments of the force to bow before him, combated numerus Sith and Jedi alike, both in the temple during order 66, and hunting down surviving Jedi of the order after pretty much spearheading the downfall of the Jedi order as a whole along with the Republic. Also, Darth Vader literally tore down the barrier between the living and the dead, and killed a planet sized creature by himself. On top of that, he showed the galaxy what "fear" truly felt like, annihilating entire divisions of troops single handedly on many occasions, killing a number of other considerably dangerous creatures, etc. Vader can also keep himself alive for a time using the force alone, as seen in various instances when his suit is badly damaged. And again there was the point made that the suit itself was a rather nice buff to Vader's abilities. So now imagine all of this on rage mode with a burning desire to kill his opponent no matter what. Kylo, your free trial of life has ended, please contact Jesus if you would like to renew your account with a subscription, or just accept that Darth Vader would stomp you the same way Australians stomp pesky spiders. Darth Vader would win.
@@Zuzublu boba is a hunter, phasma is a soldier. Hunters are far more specialized, while soldiers are just sorta pretty good at everything. Boba is much more skilled, but Phasma’s superior weaponry might be able to take him out. Boba also has portable high ground
They literally just did that to make phasma cooler bc shes as stupid as everything else in the sequels. Boba is a clone of the best bounty hunter in the galaxy no way this random soldier can take him
well if kylo got stomped by a scavenger and almost by a stormtrooper obviously he get stomped by the dark lord of the sith... Vader (dang thx for all the likes guys)
@@maggogieraffe3296 It isn't cool. If you're gonna wear a mask to make yourself look cool then choose a less flat design. Kylo Ren's mask isn't horrible but Vader's is way better. So is Malgus'.
@@skeptic_lemon just like I said in a halo video it doesn't matter the beauty about how different every damn thing is. Is that everyone can find something within that universe that they like and get involved with the community toxic bs.
For me this isn't even close. Vader wins as he had much more experience fighting other Force users and the way Sidious rag dolled Kylo off a cliff shows he was nowhere near the power of Vader.
If anakin has enough power to bring the embodiment of the light and dark side of the force down to they’re knees, and replace they’re dad then he’s more powerful than kylo
Can I ask what you're basing the "terrible duelist" comment on? If it's his fights with rey, I really feel like a loss to a mary sue shouldn't be counted on your record. Cause he did solo all the knights of ren at once, which were supposedly each better than phasma who could take on boba fett(another legendary jedi hunter). Granted we don't get to see him fight anyone else for real(not counting that bullshit they did to Luke).
@@liambrasier6590 Lol darth maul would stare at him and kylo would lose his shit and run he is the justin bieber of the star wars shitty fan fiction they now call canon.
@@liambrasier6590 you're answering your own question. His feats are heavily reliant on assumptions about his enemies power, never actually fought a jedi master in his life, has trouble defeating one stormtrooper and one amateur force user with a lightsaber even though his hate and sadness over killing his dad should have buffed him in the dark side. He soloed guys who "should" be around boba fett level, with no real way to compare them to each other, and all his other feats are either offscreen or don't say much about how strong he is in the force.
@@darkwolf4434 let's not just gloss over him killing a top 3 jedi master in the universe at the time...while at the same time fighting their apprentice who was a jedi knight at the time (or of that level). Also, struggling against padawans is a serious misuse of the term, he would curb stomp entire groups of Jedi padawans along with their master, with very few instances of struggling to a point of concern. Sidious almost took maul in as an apprentice instead of Dooku and would've if not for obi Wan
Yeah, it's clear to see many times over that when you make well-thought out, interesting videos and produce quality contentcovering a wide range of topics, people will watch and ultimately the audience grows. Not throwing shade at Seth or anything but imo this is one of the best videos he's made to date.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
*breathing*
Also I meant to say WEAKER than Maul level threat at the beginning, wasn't trying to call Darth Maul weak. That'll be a mistake worth a couple thousand dislikes for sure.. Lol.
Vader's current suit is designed by HIM, not Sidious. I showed him constructing it on screen and Vader actually gets angry when Sidious even tries to imply he'll construct it himself in the new canon. There is no Sidious nerfing him argument after Kirak and it doesn't make sense since in the new canon Sidious wants Vader to surpass him and live up to his endless potential, not suppress him. In fact, Sidious is upset that Vader was held back by his injuries and grief if anything he tries to empower him. Different narratives.
Yes Vader still has endless potential and the potential to surpass Sidious this is stated in new canon as well.
*Farting*
DADDY!!!!!!!!!!!
Same
Whens the avatar vid coming?
@@coconut412 Pissing
Long answer: Anakin Skywalker
Short answer: Vader
You mean Long awnser: darth vader
Yes exactly, Anakin Skywalker.
@@miguelneno5627 Lmao so true!!
@@miguelneno5627
Late comment but 2 different personas
Longer answer, the chosen one
Kylo: I do not fear you.
Darth Vader: Then you will die braver then most.
Badass anakin right there
"You do not fear me because you do not know me. Soon, you will die, and you will know me. Then your fear will be complete.' .... 'you little punk-ass"
"Perhaps I was wrong..."
Rebels reference
They made Vader perfect in rebels man doesn't care at all what you think he'll kill anyways
Short answer: Vader
Long answer: Vader
*Long answer: vader stomps kylo
the long answer should be “The chosen one”
Long answer darth vader
Long answer: Darth Vader
Long answer: darth vader
Short answer: vader
The fact Kylo Ren constantly pushed himself to be like his grandfather, without ever succeeding, is a testament to Darth Vader’s superiority
Kylo Ren’s portrayed as someone with a lot of room for improvement, despite innate talent and power. Vader, on the other hand, has destroyed countless Jedi masters and expert duelists
Like the guidebook at 17:33 states, EP VII Kylo would have difficulty defeating EP V Luke, who wasn’t even considered a Jedi yet
Sure, Kylo increased his powers in Episodes VIII and IX, but so did Luke, who completed his training by EP VI. Even then, he was still inferior to Darth Vader and only won because of his father’s confliction
Darth Vader definitely stomps
The person with the biggest Jedi kill count of his era
Vs
His emo grandson.
Vader once again holds back because he loves his kylo
LOLOLOL EXACTLY
@Dragon with Internet connection He also didnt meet luke much but still sparred him and sacrificed himself for luke, He wont be able to kill kylo
@@kakashihatake6052 the difference is that Luke was his son who was good while Ben is his grandson who’s evil Vader will kill someone he sees as himself: a failure
@@PhoenixAce Imagine this :
Kylo is dueling vader who is just toying with him , not even taking him as a real threat .Vader finally stops playing with his food and cuts kylo arm off, then he lifts him up in the air with the force.
As kylo struggles to set himself free he realises that he never even stood a chance he finally asks" Why? All I wanted is to big like you !
Vader looks at him and for the first time in a long time he starts laughing , he would cry if he could , then he stops . For a moment Kylo felt as if the world stopped the only sound that could be heard is vader breathing .
Vader finally says looking him straight at him, enraged and he would say" Only a fool would want to be me like me"
Then finally he snaps his neck , being disgusted that someone would want a life like his
"Alas, you're no Vader. You're just a child in a mask." - Snoke
I guess the sequels weren't that bad overall...
@@ph4ntom_39 they were bad, like most characters were badly written I mean it’s Disney so we can’t expect anything. But the nostalgia and Vader parallels saved it. I mean Vader/Anakin is like the Star Wars Jesus who doesn’t like him
@@29_saiful06 Ikr, Vader has always been my childhood villain, but I did like all 3 trilogies, but Vader is the best thing of it all.
@@ph4ntom_39
Favorite villains of all time-
1. Ainz Ooal Gown AKA Momonga from Overlord. (Albeit, he’s the main protagonist, but damn he’s one evil badass).
2. Darth Vader (Because Darth Vader)
3. Sauron (From Lord of the Rings in case nobody knows)
4. Light from Death Note (an obvious choice).
And I can’t think of a fifth off the top that really stood out to me as being inherently evil yet totally badass. I don’t know, can Kratos be considered a villain? Or is he more of an antihero?
[EDIT]: I found number 5, totally forgot about her … Tanya from Saga of Tanya the Evil (total badass).
@@Abracastabya epic
"Can kylo ren defeat Darth vader"
Well no but actually no
Lol
@@kingofallgodzillas9901 out of all things that a human is capable of saying, out of all ways of expression and means of communication that mankind has come up with, all you have is "lol". Shameful.
@@camulodunon deal with it
@@Depressed_until_dead Not-fun fact: I copied a reply I saw months ago.
Vader was the most skilled lightsaber duelist in the Temple.
Kylo when mad: throws a fit and destroys important stuff
Darth Vader when mad: threatens and kills unimportant people and is actually kinda scary
Wdym kinda? He *is* scary.
@@GabesEdtiznah, just kinda
Important stuff like his dad
Kylo hasn't faced anyone is saber combat as well... vader hunted down and killed jedi
All of them and fought a ancient sith that cut of most his limbs
We know a whole lot about Vader since the character has been around for 40+ years though...Kylo is still rather new and we don’t know all his feats as of yet...but they are hinted at in canon a lot, the entire galaxy knew him as *“The Jedi Killer”* and it’s not public information that Kylo is Ben Solo or anyone from Luke’s temple so that title didn’t come from the destruction of the temple it came later, which suggests that he has also been hunting and killing Jedi throughout the galaxy, there’s a whole 6 years of time that Kylo was on the dark side prior to TFA that we know next to nothing about...we don’t know how many Jedi or force users fell to his hand in that time period but we do know there’s no sign of them in the sequels past Luke and Rey, that suggests Kylo’s probably killed a whole bunch of Jedi himself...
The canon comics show him taking down a damn Zillo Beast singlehandedly and bringing a whole planet to heel, they refer to him as the best duelist in the entire Jedi Temple, undefeated...they show him handling three Jedi his age at the same time while they’re trying to kill him and he’s just defending himself not trying to hurt them, still he slaps them around like they’re nothing and even accidentally killing one through reflex...they show him killing the former master of the Knights Of Ren in single combat while supposedly force lightning is literally pulsing from his body...his eyes go Sith yellow when bleeding his crystal and he pours so much power into it that it cracks, he did this in one go...even Vader couldn’t bleed his crystal straight away.
People really tend to downplay Kylo big time but there is a legit case to be made that the Kylo Ren from TROS could take Vader in a fight...and that case is just going to grow stronger and stronger as time goes on and we inevitably see more of Kylo in comics and other series’...I mean some people refuse to even acknowledge that Kylo is a top tier force user...they won’t even give him that...even though he’s had more training and experience by the events of TROS than Anakin had by the events of ROTS, (Anakin in ROTS is 23, Kylo by TROS is 30 and both started training at around the same age) I mean it’s just sad really...you say anything good about that character, mention any of his feats, even suggest he could defeat anyone from the past two trilogies and you get hopped on by a mob of screeching “fans”.
@@Ivbo I still don’t think kylo can take Vader but maybe a older kylo would be able to because he lacks the power to turn his rage or anger to power while Vader can that’s the vary point of the dark side that’s the reason maul didn’t die while being cut and half and why Vader lives through most of the worst injuries and Vader is way better then kylo at dueling even using the force to lift and move his body while dueling or fighting and him being a adaptive duelist like paptine and having more experience because him having dueling sessions with sideous,mace windu,yoda,and obi wan.he is also way more durable and smarter then him as well in the force.I find it kinda bs that kylo would beat Luke because he has a higher midicolian count and is better at dueling, but I believe mando Luke or movie Luke would beat him.
One thing Seth got wrong is that Vader did kill the zillo beast the same way kylo did while only having one stormtrooper left and Vader/anakin also has a higher midocoloian count then him and because his prosthetics he also is more stronger then him but a adult kylo maybe able to take him in a fight and Vader could of easily livied and survived the force lightning but he chose not too and we seen him where his suit was fucked and he used the force on his injuries and his whole body.
@@Ivbo even at all ankins battle more exactly dooku vs anakin he was able to use the dark side when he fought even a past anakin would win against him
@@Ivbo and yet he gets beaten up by a random person with no training who lived in the desert her whole life.
The problem with the sequels and their lore is... none of it makes sense.
You called me a madman, 5 years ago I was banned from Seth's discord server because I asked for a Star wars video. Today, I finally celebrate my victory.
You deserve it ma men lets drink some wine and remember it for ever
Gg
Thats kinda sad tho, getting banned and being called a madman gg to you
It shows that Seth became the very thing that he swore to destroy
Not the hero we deserved but the hero we needed!
Kylo: *Uses Force Mind Tricks*
Vader: "Genjutsu of that level doesn't work on me"
Then vaders breaks his arm and says "Jamada"
Kurenai vs itachi all over again
😭
Kylo rips the Vaders mask off.
Vader: hey you weren't supposed to . . Chokes
@@Cyborg_Lenin Vader negates it with his force
The fact that Kylo was distracted and nerfed by his pain shows that he is a weaker than standard sith. Countless sith in the series are able to amp themselves being driven by hatred that is brought by pain. And that was my understanding of why Kylo was hitting his wound repeatedly in the fight against Rey and Finn, to boost his hatred and amp his power. So I feel like either he is really weak, or is not capable of a basic sith skill
Well vader lost against Luke because he was conflicted and he was a sith lord with a lot of experience
You didn't pay attention to the Return of the Jedi discussion, did you?
@@Burlapyui vader let luke beat him.. he was trying to provoke him turn him to the darkside..
@@johnnybones0074 well no,by that logic he should have also lose in episode 5
@Γιώργος Παρασκευόπουλος is episode 5 where Vader cut lukes hand off? If so Vader knew he wasn't ready and also the circumstances r different.. in this one they r Infront of the emperor whilst in episode 5 it's just a "1v1" and Vader is just trying to get him to join him... I don't remember much of episode 5 saw that ages ago but pretty sure there were examples of him trynna get Luke to turn to the dark side n in this episode him provoking Luke and getting him to use his anger as a weapon was just another way of getting luke to join the DS
I don’t care how strong Disney wanted this child to be, he’s not stronger than the damn chosen one.
Disney never said he was stronger.
Anakin is quite litterally space jesus. His dna is the actual force.... you litterally cant top that
well kylo is his grand child so it is possible
@@dynamicheatwave9949 by that point hes max 12.5% force
@@brontome yes but no he has high midichlorians but as we Learned it doesn’t matter high of your midchlorian count you have you can still lose to someone who has lower midichlorians a perfect example would be nihilus he was defeated by people who had low midichiorians The reason why Skywalker was considered the chosen one was when he was a little kid his count was at the lvl of a Padawan as he got older his power was at the lvl of a Jedi master Yoda and nihilus are probably the only Force users in the Star Wars universe that we know have a midichlorian count above 50k while Anakin in his prime was 20k and Vader 30k+
kylo ren is a character who is poorly handled in the film series, he could have been written much better.
Isnt that almost every character in the trilogy lol
@@chanceofbliss8175 in the prequels and sequels. The comics make Anakin a good character not the movies
@@chanceofbliss8175 Original characters where good, Yoda and Obi wan where fine the prequels and so was qui gon jin.
Anakin is much better in other material.
Kylo ren was poorly handled and was always a joke it seemed. I can believe he is more powerful than Vader or even Maul.
My point was really just talking about the episodes 7,8,9. Nobody in that trilogy was well handled.
Even the prequels did a better job of portraying characters except for anakin. And even then I like him more than all the MCs in the eps 7-9
@@chanceofbliss8175 yeah i understand, Anakin's character needed better direction and script i think the actor was good when given the chance to properly act.
In the clone wars where Anakin dominates the son and the daughter he is literally speeding up the rotation of the planet. I think that's pretty crazy
yea he bends gods to there knee's with the force this VIDEO IS BULLSHIT
Then why Anakin didn't stop the war by himself? i mean, he could stomp Dooku, Maul, Greavous and Ventress
@@MementoMoriIlluminatusDrStrang that’s what the whole point about doubts and fears is. Doubt nerfs force users because they can’t focus and control the force as easily. It’s not that he couldn’t kill them, it’s more he doubted himself because of his environment of obi wan doubting anakin position as master, the council looking down on him. Etc. Short answer tho he pretty much did end the war by himself, killed the trade federation, put palps into power, then didn’t argue when he was to be arrested. He only had issues about mace killing palps, and we saw how that ended up.
@@MementoMoriIlluminatusDrStrang In the planet of Force everyone becomes as powerful as much as he/her can.
@@MementoMoriIlluminatusDrStrang Because plot. Doesn't change the fact that Anakin can oneshot pretty much anyone if he wants to, though.
In canon and in legends, vader outclasses and outdoes Kylo’s feats even during his lowest points. He’s a master duelist with decades of combat experience against jedi and dark side users alike, his armor (despite having some weaknesses) grants him protection from injuries that would either cripple or outright kill Kylo, his force abilities are very potent in their control, precision and magnitude compared to Kylo.
With that all being said, there’s a strong chance that the fight doesn’t even progress beyond lightsaber dueling because Vaders massive edge in that area may very well finish off Kylo outright.
A djem so strike, an ataru flourish or a Makashi stab, the end result is all the same: Kylo Ren dead and the battle being over.
also, (at least in legends[not sure about canon]) Vader's suit literally lets him chill in lava
Now THIS guy knows his Star Wars.
@@WarriorofSunlight no he doesnt
Kylo is much more powerful in the force than vader was. Vader's suit and cybernetics hindered his force ability greatly (he was missing 4 limbs and all of the midichlorians that would be in those limbs). We see that kylo has immense power in the force, being able to freeze people and blaster bolts, use psychometry, and interrogate people in his mind like Legilimancy in Harry Potter. However, I would say that vader is the much better duelist. That being said, I think focused Kylo, being able to use both the light and dark side of the force like his potential states, would be able to defeat vader.
@@ethanweimer-kopf6907 Vader is missing 4 limbs dude...don't try to do a statement if you don't even know the most basic facts
Who else clicked on this video just to read the comments?
Me lol
yeah still considering if i want to watch it cause its very obvious who wins xD
Me
Me
@@Endslikecrazy while he does reach the conclusion that Vader likely wins it’s not nearly as clean cut as you might think
Fought Ventress, Savage Oppress, Dooku countless times (and killed him), apprentice to Sidious, the chosen one, could hold down the Mortis Gods, killed countless Jedi in the temple and afterwards, held back the ocean, insane force powers, mastered all 7 forms
Vs
Couldn't beat Rey
And killed you
He did beat Rey though.
@@dreamwar1586 barely by the hairs on his chiny chin chin.
@@tryhardgaming2862 He did it effortlessly lol
@@dreamwar1586 Kyle got beaten by her when she hasn't even used a lightsaber before. Kylo stands no chance against vader who is able to kill jedi masters in his weakened state.
"Notice the wording of UNTAMED. This could mean anything from masterless to straight up- ARBY'S." Perfect ad placement.
I got a offset voting commercial
@@b.o.a.9861 dam 😞
I got a law firm ad
even while heavily injured and conflicted, it's hard to believe Kylo would lose to people who have never touched a lightsaber in their lives. while Vader hunts down Jedi every second he breathes
They’re still well versed in melee combat. It’s not like they never used a melee weapon before. Rey grew up on a post apocalyptic planet with a staff and Finn had training with the baton that FN-2199 had.
@@1065chris a lightsaber would be way different tho. the blade is practically weightless, so it would be far different from a baton or a staff, top-heavy weapons. Even if that doesn't affect too much, it still would create a difference in skill between someone who's trained heavily and someone who has never used such a weapon before
@@1065chris wasn't finn a fuckin janitor??
@@Elephantsaresupreme Wasn't Kylo shot with a bowcaster?
@@1065chris OK good point. I actually wasn't being against anything. I just fuckin hate the fact that finn isn't allowed to be a morally grey character because instead of being a storm trooper who had to slaughter hundreds, he's just a frickin janitor that was promoted
Jedi slayer that can crush a ship with the force
VS
An emo with a glowstick
Also an other thing vader freed an alien race from a montain size monster named The Ender with almost no scratch
Kylo would still lose. If Vader went all out, Vader would crush his skull as easily as crushing a very soft cookie.
@@gurbaz7764 it is canon. He beat the ender aka a giant monster that wiped out an entire civilization with ease. He even killed it and just went on with his merry day.
So Vader doesn’t have a glow stick?
@@hunterhale9000 nah he has a proper lightsaber Kylo has a glow stick
I agree with John boyega when he said darth vader solos the entire cast of the sequels
Dude… he could solo every damn character, side character, extra, etc. from every single movie and show (minus palpatine since the dude’s ridiculously overpowered). At the same time.
And people were mad at him for it
@@that1cat999 well I mean Vader probably could kill mister crispy face to if his suit wasn't literally designed to let Palpatine kill him aswell as in legends vaderbhad the option to upgrade to a robotic suit that wouldn't cause him constant pain so he would be able to freely move without limitation but he wouldn't be as strong whith the Darkside I think if he got that upgrade he'd be able to turn Palpatine into sushi because who needs to choke a mf when you can just sprint at them and stab them
@@shadowknightgaming1874 The constant pain actually helped Vader become stronger in the darkside of the force, because his hatred for Sidius kept on growing every time he moved. But if the suit didn't amplify lightning damaged, where Palpating is most proficient at. Vader could kill Palpatine earlier in the series
@@shadowknightgaming1874 what if he got a the better suit, but it was still painful
Kylo Ren isn't canon. He's just part of a very expensive fan fiction.
A very bad one
Good fan fiction, glad id wasnt Cannon 😅 maybe we Will never get the sequels.. if thats so..
Then
This is the Way
Agreed
Ya pretty good for fan fiction but glad not canon
Lmao agreed
I feel like while the comics TRIED to establish Kylo Ren as a serious threat, what we actually SEE tells us he cant hold a candle to Vader.
The only way Kylo wins is if Vader feels conflicted about stomping his grandson.
The only way Kylo wins is if Vader is an action figure... Unless Kylo injures himself in the process.
Vader: I'M A GRANDPA?!!! THIS IS WONDERFUL I MUST TELL EVERYONE I'M A GRANDFATHER STORMTROOPERS!
@@olah547 hell yeah a HISHE reference
Facts
@@vrj8791 *HEY BEN,I TURNED MYSELF INTO AN ACTION FIGURE-*
One moment I always think of is when Vader first meets Luke in the comics. He uses the force to yank the lightsaber out of Luke’s hand, mocks him, and is about to one-shot him before noticing it’s Anakin’s lightsaber (than Han attacks him with an ATAT which he goes on to destroy). I know Kylo’s hurt, but having so much trouble against untrained people using a lightsaber for the first and second time is just embarrassing for someone supposedly as powerful as him.
Yeah, it's pretty pathetic lol. He obviously had a good amount of training with Luke (more than Luke first got anyway lol) and Snoke supposedly taught him too, so he shouldn't have had anywhere near as much trouble with either Finn or Rey in their first fights. He just can't make full use of the dark side since he's still pulled by the light. Opposite of Anakin. So fighting Vader, who is essentially fully in the dark, he wouldn't even be able to use his own full power against Vader, let alone beat him.
@@aliveandwellinisrael2507
*Edit I made this comment before watching the video*
I'm not one to defend the sequel trilogy, far from it but one thing that always gets me when people hate on Kylo for taking that L against Finn and Rey was he was shot by chewies bowcaster which earlier in the film sent two or three (don't remember exact number) first order storm troopers flying back, and Kylo literally got hit in a pretty vital spot on the body, so I can see his loss at the end of the force awakens reasonable, anything after that though is just Disney being lame
You can attempt to make the argument "oh kylo just went through a lot the 6 hours prior, cut him some slack" but then you can remember Anakin fought his former master and was out muscling him after days of no sleep taking out other jedi earlier.
Vader would have fucked up rey and I would have laughed
Sorry... But even if he had been shot by a bow caster there is NO WAY that DARTH VADER would have EVER have allowed himself to get his ass kicked by a girl who had only just been told that The Force exists and had never used a lightsaber before. Just.... No way.
How is this even a 24 minute video. You could easily say “Vader would win” in less than 5 seconds
Well you gotta give Kylo his credit too, he’s severely downplayed due to how he’s presented in the shitty movies, like his dueling abilities and raw force power.
@James Davis This video proves otherwise
@James Davis agreed Kylo is literally shit tier force user and even worse duelist. He literally has nothing special to him. Luke in previous movies if Lucas made them still, would have destroyed kylo in a second or two
@Patient Devil sure did. And it’s still illogical bitcho ren would even put up a three second fight against Vader 🤷🏽♂️
@@wolfgangill9717 kylo has potential to pass Vader.
"So strong he doesn't even have a health bar..." that's just about says it😂
Kylo is about as much of a threat as that death sticks dealer.
You’re vastly underestimating Elan Sleazebagino
Yeah full power and fully healthy kylo ren is pretty strong
Why would you underestimate him like that? Deathstick dealer would easily wipe kylo
@@Nemoidz I'd say kylo is pretty strong but vader is stronger because he is the chosen one
@@kacper1544 im just joking lol, u know what that means?
Seth was def the type of person at lunch to debate if his lunch is better then everyone’s
I can't tell if you're hating on him 😂
Lol.
I brought lunchables today so my lunch is superior
@@redtiger8275 it's Saturday stop
(My comment is a meme) nah i brought homemade pizza, my lunch greater so there for, your an absolute sad excuse of a human being
I got 3 words: “The Chosen One”
But the argument falls flat. Anakin was The Chosen One as he was destined to bring balanced, and Vader manages this by pretty much removing force users in general. The clone wars series even foreshadows this (canonically) when Anakin is meeting with Force Beings, and from their the light and dark side embodiments father hints at balance being found by an option off eliminating the scale of light and dark in general: which Vader mostly does.
Vader was considered incredibly gifted with the force, but so was Kylo.
Outside of being gifted with grand force sensitivity/potential, Vader’s title as Chosen One is only important for his destiny, rather than his capabilities as a fighter.
We have even seen Anakin lose many times despite being the Chosen One against Jedi. And while this list has highlighters light Tyranus (during clone wars) and Obi (in RotS), it still demonstrates that being Chosen is not an anti-Jedi effect. Vader needs other aspects to make and take a win.
And while those other aspects can be argued, they were not the bases of this argument.
- comment was kinda funny though 👍
@@bigpapan.g3245 Lol against Kylo Ren? Doubt it.
Agreed
@@bigpapan.g3245 holy shit you’re a redditor aren’t you
@@6XXXThanatosRaysXXX6 Your missing my point.
As I primarily discuss the fallacy of 'the chosen one' title being an instant win card. Rather than debating if Vader could take Kylo or not.
Vader was formally trained when it still meant something, was a war hero and general, victor of numerous battles over other force users. Kylo would not have even likely raised his pulse.
"You will not stop me! Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!" Sideous to Yoda.....The reason he never killed Palpatine wasn't due to his strength, it was due to Vader's fears and doubts.
YEA IF VADER WANTED TO KILL PALPTINE ALL PALPTINE NEEDS TO SAY IS I KILLED PADME VADER WOULD FUCKIN RIP PALPTINE INTO PEICE'S LITERALY TEAR HIS BODY APART BLOOD EVERYWHERE ARMS ON THE FLOOR EYEBALLS SMASHED INTO WALLS ETC
Nah Palp would trash him pretty hard
Palpatine tampered with Vader's armour to prevent him from reaching his full potential. They could've made a better armour for Vader but purposefully chose not to, this is why Vader became slower after he wore the armour. This in turn forced him to develop a new form of light sabre combat so that it can compensate with his now heavier yet stronger body.
And force lighting palpatine best force power is Vader’s weakness; cuz paplatine tampered Vader’s suit.
@@randomkid8007 may I remind you that without this stupid million dollar fanfic from disney, vader DID kill palpatine??
Regardless of what people think on who would win this battle, a fully realized potential anakin skywalker is the most powerful being in the Star Wars universe that is unquestioned. Sad that we never got to see it.
What about Darth Revan and Star Killer? Please don’t yell at me I’m just wondering lol
@@DaKillaCroc859 Star Killer at his peak(Which he also never reached) could definitely handle Vader and most likely even Sidious. But at most Galen at his peak would be like half the power of a fully realized potential Anakin.
I refuse to believe litteral Force Jesus doesn't have the potential to solo the entire universe extended and all.
Luke is a god in legends and I believe anakin would have been on the same level if he still had all of physical body but idk if he could handle some of the sith like darth bane darth nihilus and exar kun
@@DaKillaCroc859 they are both very powerful but someone else pointed out how powerful vader is if he wasn't in that suit he would stomp Starkiller and Reven but I think at least Starkiller is his equal in combat but not the force
How can Kylo Ren have potential greater than the person that was literally birthed by the force?
@Patient Devil but Kylo wasn’t born from just the force though...
Oh ok
He doesn't. But he does.
You see if Vader was still Flesh and Blood, his potential would be limitless. Abaloth, the Infinite Emperor, Lord Vititate, sidious, Luke... He would be untouchable. But the suit limited him. Due to it being electronic, and his hands being robotic, using force lighting or powers similar to it is (in some sources) called impossible, and in other sources is called Self Sabotage. Kylo didn't have these limits.
If this was Vader BEFORE the suit, then Kylo wouldn't have more potential. But since he has it, it's a big limit.
@@tasonjodd5151 New canon has nerfed how much Vader's suit limits his potential. A lot of the writers now are saying he's currently stronger than Sidious. In legends, your argument might hold a little more weight. But at the same time, Vader was trained by the best and grew in times of war. On top of that, the sheer fact that Kylo is the offspring, of the offspring, diluted by the blood of a non-force sensitive, of the person who was birthed by the force - he should have way less of a connection to the force than... the person who was actually birthed by the force. It's simple logic, really.
And it might seem like we're angry. But we have right to be. It's so disrespectful for a writer to be given the privilege to contribute to such a legendary series. Only to disrespect its mythology and established characters by making a character stronger and more special than the person who is supposed to be the strongest and most special.
@Patient Devil No, but Vader was trained more often and by better force sensitives (especially considering he was trained by soy Disney Luke) and experienced far more combat, even in his short time with an able body. Kylo in comparison did way less and shouldn't be stronger by any means.
In the new canon series it's explained that Vader's suit is neither an amp nor a nerf but more of a trade off. While he can no longer perform the complicated acrobatics he once did as a Jedi, but allows him to lean heavily into raw physical power instead. Naturally, this also forced him to readjust his saber style. When he fights Kerak, he's still getting used to both his suit and his new fighting style, so he naturally ends up far more powerful than he was then.
What new cannon is this? If you look it up online, it says the same thing about his suit being a hindrance on purpose.
@@tlothompson6935 Read the comic or be quiet ffs
“It’s skin is too thick, I need to kill it from the inside”
“Skin is the same thickness from the inside”
Isnt the point of getting inside is to destroy its insides to kill it?
@@cygnusx1858 it’s a guardians of the galaxy reference
@@gasstationsushi1999 yeah dude i know, im just saying...
@@cygnusx1858 it’s alright dude.....I wish you could’ve gotten your question answered
@@cygnusx1858 Yes but he shouldn't be able to cut his way out
Vader. Easily.
Maybe Kylo might eventually reach the level that Vader did. But he never got anywhere close to that level during the runtime of the movies. I don't think he ever even got close to being the level Anakin was during the Clone Wars movie.
Darth maul dominates every body except Luke in the sequels
@@Genesisthefirst109 Honestly, I'm inclined to agree. As much as Darth Maul was the weakest of the three Sith in the prequels, he still strikes me as being far more powerful and capable than any character in the sequel trilogy.
He's certainly a better combatant.
@@seraphinaaizen6278
Darth Maul isn't even that weak for his era and is the character really being low-balled here. Sidious himself saw Dooku as nothing more than a puppet or stepping stone to reach Anakin, but actually described the loss of Maul as unfortunate and lamented the wasted apprentice. He says this about Dooku in the same sentence he talks about Maul meaning he is literally saying Maul was a better Sith than Dooku or at least that he had greater plans for him and considered him worthy of succeeding him via Rule of Two succession. We also have to take into account Rule of Two scaling which logically would make Maul at least many times stronger than Darth Bane. Maul is easily in the top five most powerful Sith Lords to ever exist. "But he lost to Ashoka!" I hear you say, and while this is true we're talking about a Maul that has been sliced in half and is now a cyborg. If Vader lost most of his force potential due to the loss of his limbs and being nearly burned to death, then Maul lost a comparative amount of Force potential. This is why Maul goes from being able to fight Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan at the same time to being beaten by Ashoka (and it was still a tough fight for her).
This is also just canon information on Maul. If we go with Legends he has to be many times greater or at least comparable to Darth Revan who was comparable to or weaker than Darth Bane. What this means is that you can make the argument that legends Maul is very possibly as strong or stronger than Emperor Vitiate from the KOTOR era or at least stronger than Darth Malgus, Darth Jadus, or even Darth Nihilus.
@@LightAndDarkMdness02 I suspect that, in the case of Maul, he had greater potential than Dooku did, but was not actually anywhere near as powerful.
Indeed, we can say with certainty that he wasn't anywhere near as powerful, because he was defeated by a young and green Obi-Wan, when a much more experienced and powerful Obi-Wan was casually tossed aside by Dooku.
However, Dooku was an old man and had very likely hit his peak. He wasn't likely to get much stronger than he already was, whereas Darth Maul was still young and had room to grow. If he'd lived longer and hadn't lost half his body, it's not impossible that he would have surpassed Dooku in time.
" If we go with Legends"
Yeah, let's not do that.
@@seraphinaaizen6278
I disagree slightly. Dooku was pressed by a weaker Savage and Assajj Ventress. He only gained the upper hand after Savage flipped the fuck out and ruined the teamwork with Assajj. Dooku nearly lost to the combined teamwork of Savage and Assajj Ventress; Savage and Ventress being many, many times weaker than Darth Maul. A crippled Maul with less than half of his Force potential was considered by Sidious himself to be, "A rival." He never even considered Dooku as such.
My interpretation:
Kylo is a terrible duelist, practically speaking. His form should be Djem So from his fanboyism and strong strikes, as well as lack of movement when he duels. But not only did he not get much training compared to people like Maul and even mid tier Jedi like Aayla Secura, Vader knows exactly how to screw with Kylo because he used the exact same style as a Jedi. He was a brazen, cocky form V user who got schooled by Dooku and Kenobi. By the time he made a better suit, he would have already had to adapt his style for a clunkier body, making a mix of forms V and IV, both of them probably seen by Kylo, but he would have no way to know how to counter it.
As for force powers...Vader is the chosen one. Kylo has no chance.
My interpretation:
disney doesn't know star wars
@@coolcoll1262 I mean, they even spit in Kylo's face with the: "bested by a girl who had never even held a lightsaber, YOU FOOL!" so I don't know why everyone thinks Kylo would even *remotely* put up a challenge against...anyone, really. I'd even say the Luke who didn't finish his training with Yoda would beat Kylo (and we all saw how bad Vader kicked Luke's ass, and that was just tough love). Especially since Rey beat Kylo and she knew about the Force for like a few hours.
As my boy Luke said in Mandalorian: "Talent without training is nothing."
Isn't Vader also a practitioner of form 2( Makashi) now, as he adapted to more rigid movements as well? I mention this as this precision form would be the perfect counter to Kylos reckless form V with wide swings.
@@spartanoreo5075
According to most legend sources, Makashi is actually weak to Djem So, as the lacking power in Makashi lets it get blunt forced through by a Djem So practitioner. Dooku had to address this by using a sweeping attack to the feet, a weak spot for the non-movement form V.
@@goroakechi6126 This is true, but I was mainly referring to Bens reckless wide swinging form of Djem so, rather than a master or capable practitioner. But I understand that in most cases Djem So's heavy offensive and staggering strikes may overwhelm the precision of Makashi, like with Count dooku and Anakin.
In terms of force potential, I don't think anyone can rival vader since he's the chosen one
Ahh he lost ALOT of midichlorians. Anakin is the chosen one but Luke becomes the most powerful force user ever.
Even when he was in his suit, George Lucas said that Vader is 80% as powerful as Palpatine
@@cb41503 You make it seem like his suit made him stronger when it didn't. It was actually the opposite.
It’s a trade off.
Vader never lost potential given that Maul did not lose power.
George’s statements have always been weird and vague such as Obi wan being far more powerful than Vader in new hope.
@@joshuazeppeli5199 This is why SW is kind of annoying tbh. No one has any idea of power level and characters flip around every movie. If Anakin/Vader is the chosen and was suppose to be the most powerful, then he should always be, or at least be the most powerful for a long time until someone comes along that makes sense.
Vader has masterd all 7 forms of lightsaber styles so Kylo would be stomped
I'm not sure if he mastered the 6th form of lightsaber combat.
I thought he modified his own style to accommodate his suit.
@@wut-dah_7212 He did but I'm not sure if he mastered 6th form
@@funanakin5168 he masterd it, but he uses hybrid style.
@@Nah_id_win_883 Wow I never knew that.
Vader force chokes “Kylo” from across the galaxy GG.
yuh
Lmao GG rip kylo
Kylo would but a mere inconvenience
I've only seen Sidious do that to Dooku
Vader forced choked & killed an entire army more then 300 soldiers in seconds & people have the nerve to say Kylo can defeat Vader...
Feels as if Kylo is intentionally beefed up or “OP” just to scale to Vader which obviously proves that Vader was stronger and makes the comparison harder.
@Laith Rajha the knights of ren don’t compare to the countless times Vader while in his robo suit meaning he is slower compared to his natural body fought multiple Jedi knights at once, just saying but nice reply!
@Laith Rajha I know that the Star Wars material is pretty convoluted but the general consensus is that because of the heavy suit he wore he was not as agile or fast as his original body which is why he adopted a different lightsaber style which allowed for more power behind his blows to make up for the lack of speed
@Laith Rajha And what is the base speed he is basing that statement off of exactly and If that we’re true why did Vader change his lightsaber style for no reason I just want too know I don’t read the comics like that
@Laith Rajha are you going off of 2014 and up comics or the older stuff?
@Laith Rajha What? Palpatine in the comics intentionally made Vader weaker than he used to. Pre-Vader Anakin was the best lightsaber duelists during the clone wars with exception of Yoda and Mace Windu. He mastered both Form IV: Ataru and Form V: Djem - So/Shien. Both fighting style required the practitioner to have incredible speed and physical strength. After Anakin became Darth Vader, he can't use form IV anymore because the armour prevents him from doing any acrobatic movements, so he created a variant of Form V which is originally was based on defending with solid blocks and parries, then immediately countering with strong counterattacks and ripostes. With Vader's new variant, he focused more on sheer power rather than quick counter attacks. His fighting style became more direct than before due to his cybernetics.
I think Bane's quote from the "Dark Knight Rises" film perfectly encapsulates the difference between Kylo & Vader. Bane~ “Ah you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark (after being tempted by Snoke once). I was born in it (born into slavery), molded by it (mother died in his arms, wife died, padawan left him, etc. The list goes on & on.) I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!”
Answer: Vader
Why: Because Vader is literally the chosen one any sequel trilogy character would be humillatiated in a duel with him
why: because you like him more
@@bruggger6287 he is stronger tho, if you disagree you’re dumb
ANY sequel character..? So like... dooku? A-and obi-wan??
@@Alex.Hustad there is an arguement for kylo being stronger, but ye vader prolly wins.
@@IsNotAngelic_TTV well he killed both of them too.
Darth Vader lived a life of war. Training under some of the best Jedi’s of all time. (mace, yoda, Obi, many more) rose up through the ranks in the middle of the clone wars regularly fighting sith, dark side users, and army’s of droids. Cheated death countless times against dooku, one of the best duelist of all time, eventually cutting his head off with his own light saber. The chosen one.. The one who was supposed to bring balance to the force and then slaughtered hundreds of Jedi’s right after embracing the dark side. There are too many feats to type out that happened after his transformation. Darth vader is a battle hardened VET who was half machine and fought like he wanted to die. Ren... a battle virgin. Luke, Ren, Ray, these people didn’t know what true war was, they never saw it the way darth vader did. Even if Luke came right out and directly said he thought Ren was more powerful it wouldn’t matter, from viewers of the whole timeline we know more. Ren has his cool force abilities that we’ve never seen but it doesn’t mean he’s more powerful in the force itself. Duel? Ren would get gutted in a matter of seconds. Force? Vader would break his neck with a force choke before ren even activated his mid-evil lightsaber.
That was a long reply
Luke absolutely understands war. There are many years between A New Hope and Return of the Jedi, and Luke did a LOT of fighting during that time.
@@HoHhoch very true, I’ve done a lot of lore studying since I made this , but I still do believe it wasn’t on the level of darth vader counting his clone wars experience as well.
@@brianmoore4240 I mean, Luke was 19 in C4 and Anakin 9 in C1, the former started his "warrior path" at a much later age then his father, just that makes a huge difference between them...
@@HoHhoch the conflict of rebellion vs empire is rather different from the republic vs trade federation galactic war, both in duration sheer scale.
Seth on Star Wars "This is where the fun begins"💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
ah yes a prequel memer
Whippin out the schlong
Madara wins
@@smittenwerbenjagermanjense1268 😂
We will follow your career with great interest
Kylo got stomped by an untrained Rey, what do you think a prime Vader would do to him?
I know you touched on this in the video, but being nerfed by the force due to conflicting thoughts in his mind just makes Kylo weak in the force
kylo was nerfed against rey, he was also physically nerfed by the bow cawster
@@Vader255 which a true sith would have deflected.
@@znahejebe4063 well he was shocked after killing his father and he just stood their wondering if what he did Really happened so he was caught off guard
@@znahejebe4063 Kylo isn't a sith lord
@@Vader255 vader was constantly in pain like literally 24/7
Regardless of power, Vader would win because he is patient...
He learned self-control from his defeat in Mustafar, something Kylo does not have...despite losing multiple times
Thank you
He lost 3 limbs in that fight id hope anyone would learn from that and not make the same mistake twice
He seemed pretty calm in episode 9
Well maybe not calm but tired, anyway he wasn't as angry and quick to slice and dice in 9
Took the words right out of my mouth
@@ASmartNameForMe he's never fought obi wan tho......
The entire sequels is about how kylo can never be as powerful as vader
Lmao true. And about how powerful “Women” are like Rey
@@thevaden2024 kylo is stronger tho
@@bruggger6287 Literally non of these matters in the least..all it would take in the past is lucas to come up with another bad idea & nowadays, disney with star wars has nothing but bad ideas movie wise..
@@mopnem mando was a good show tho, and bad batch was decent
@@bruggger6287 Agree, which is why I def said movie wise. I might give rogue one a pass tho
the fact that people would even consider asking this question offends me ...
Every masterpiece (Vader) has its cheap copy (kylo)
I was gonna comment the same thing, like why are we even asking the question? Kylo is just weak and Vader easily destroy him.
Exactly
@@ChainRG Kylo wanted to be Vader so bad but he is really just a softie cosplaying as a Sith
@@Kurama_02 fr
In terms of raw force power: Darth Vader would win (He has superior command of the Darkside).
In terms of lightsaber skill: Darth Vader would win hands down (From what I can observe Kylo Ren lightsaber style is similar to that of 5th Brother's and 6th Brother's)
Kyle Ren: Grandfather, I'm going to beat you!
Vader: *goes from breathing to hard laughing*
When Vader laughs you know you’re going to die
Now I'm hard laughing 🤣😂
Them he starts making those wheezing noises
@@dyshtrack745 lmaoooo
💀💀💀
Seth: Darth Vader vs Kylo Ren
Me, a comic reader: Well.... *rip Kylo*
Facts
Legends vader is crazy but i wish kylo could get some good legends runs hes a cool character that could have potential in a good writers hands
I KNOW
The original legends lore Darth Vader wasn't that strong and I think that Kylo would have a decent shot.
But under the new Disney canon lore, Darth Vader is so much stronger than he used to be.
@@garrykasparov1505 og vader was equal to 80 percent of sidious strength, New vader is said to be equal to vader and sometimes even stronger
99% are betting Darth Vader would win.
But there’s always that one person.
Like me lmao
@@marmarbuckz5243 You suck
Haha found me 🤪 sike
@@vos7619 how ?
@@vos7619 brush stfu like it was probably a joke
From even a training standpoint, Anakin got official training from an actual jedi master On coruscant, then direct training from the strongest sith in the series, whereas Kylo only got passed-on notes from a jedi informally trained and indirect orders from a sith in hiding. Vader's moves are methodical and polished, whereas Kylo swings about his lightsaber in wild, flailing swings. Given their shown power and lineages, I'd say they're about medi-chlorian Equal; I'd say Vader Wins.
Sidious very very rarely taught and trained vader but vader would still stomp kylo.
Kyle got stomped by...ahem
“A girl who had never even held a lightsaber”
Meanwhile Vader butchered millions while being a cripple
Tbf he got shot by Chewbacca's bow caster and was really conflicted about why he killed his father (or something) and as he said confliction is a HUGE nerf
@@Kenzie1-l1n
Dark side users become stronger from pain
That’s why palpatine made Vader’s suit painful to wear
It’s also why kylo was beating his wound throughout the fight
@@KARL00300 kylo ren is more of a dark jedi than a sith
@@Kenzie1-l1n i mean vader never had legs or arms, were unconfortable, painful, badly design, he didnt have lungs and they guy had a serious depression
Rey is a Mary Sue, she would’ve have won against anyone. Scaling doesn’t matter in that bitches case.
Anakin literally made the embodiments of the force get on their knees
Kylo killed people while they were defenceless
Easily Vader
And stopped an OCEAN flowing.. in his SUIT!! And his suit feeds his rage, rage makes him stronger.. Vader
well....to be fair Vader also killed the defenseless
@@theantianimeassociation7574 but he also killed powerful individuals. Kylo Ren has the jedi kill count of 2 or 3 (which were not even knights or masters but rather padawans) and he even struggled against the emperor's guards. Anakin literally made the embodiments of the force kneel before him and has killed several Jedi masters and a crapload of padawans and younglings. Also he literally yeeted Palpatine while being electrocuted.
Kylo would try that trick on Vader and Vader wold just crush his organs in response
@@demosxn6722 bruh, I'm not even a fanatic about dtarwasrs but I do know enough about Vader and kylo Ren to say that Vader easily shockes this one home.
Seth: all right bois Kylo Ren vs-
Swag: MADARA WINS!
can he beat Goku tho?
IM JOKING ABOUT THAT COMMENT GUYS IM NOT THAT TYPE OF GUY
😂
@@DynaMightSoloz spongebob beats goku and mandara base form
@@DynaMightSoloz spongebob stomps with using .00000000000000001e% of his power
"Captain Phasma is stated to be able to outlast Boba Fett." How though? I'm genuinely confused on that to this day.
women have more stamina than men? /j
Boba fett: im the most skilled powerful feared bounty hunter in the entire galaxy.
Disney: she's a women.
It’s just Disney feminist retcon bs. boba fett would destroy phasma and Finn at the same time
@@skylersimpson4692 heck yeah man
He's older and is smart enough to not use too much energy
Vader killed the younglings with no issue, Kylo lost to an overgrown one. Enough said
Keep in mind;
Vader in his prime took on the entire jedi academy with a couple of clones
Kylo in his prime could not even kill a scavenger who had little less than a week days of training
Agree
actually no training
Yeah. I hate how Disney handled his charecter. He was trained by both sidious through snoke, and luke. Making him pretty powerful, but because strong female charecter he loses.
Isn’t Rey supernaturally gifted, combined with Kylo’s doubts.
Yeah, it was like 10 hours of no training whatsoever. A little less than a week?? Rey got the saber like halfway through 7 where she was imprisoned by Kylo, then escapes, then wins against Kylo who barely fought off a stormtrooper. Her training amounts to tripping homeless, telling Han how to fly his own ship, and of course out-interogating the supposedly powerful Kylo Ren, who's only feat in the franchise is freezing a bullet, unless you count losing, he's pretty good at that. The bullet scene adds too much inconsistency to Kylo and should be cut, he couldn't even repeat it again like when he was shot at by the bowgun. He fought worse than Rey in the Throne Room, and again against Sideous. He's just bad.
Vader easy because he defeated way more Jedi and has stronger force powers ,is a better swordsman has mastery over 7 forms of light saber combat
Truth
Just the fact of being the better swordsmen should give him the win.
His also the chosen one
@@khulmach9662 I want to show how much of stomp it is and physical Vader is stronger.
@@putent9623 Not a feat, just saying "Because he's king" isn't a good arguement
In the original trilogy, we never get to see Vader's real power. In the sequels, Anakin is strong but it's only hinted at that he's the most powerful. It could have been so much better
It could, but Lucas was more interested in cramming irrelevant stuff into the universe than actually telling Anakin's story.
*prequels
Ya and this is why SW is so disappointing. He should have been the Thanos of the SW universe. Able to take down entire teams of enemies and achieve anything he desired. This is also what happens when you make the strongest person in the universe a bad guy in your good vs evil story. You make him appear weaker than he actually is.
In one corner: The chosen one who held back the embodiments of the light and the dark side of the force, dismantled the galactic republic, has a higher midichlorian count than yoda and paplatine.
In the other corner: His emo grandson who lost a duel to an ex stormtrooper and the worst duelist in the galaxy.
that makes him worst duelist in the galaxy.
What do you mean lost a duel to the ex storm trooper he was going easy on them both while he was injured by a weapon that could blow up groups of storm Troopers and was conflicted about killing his father which was a nerf like bro after Finn hit him he actually took the fight seriously and immediately destroyed Finn
He couldn't win against Vader i know that but he's stronger then Rey
@@michaelarias3310
This is true. He beats her handedly in RoS and only loses because his mom dies and he feels it across the galaxy, giving Rey an opening lol.
Kylo vs storm troper: needs to strike multiple hits to actually hit him
Vader vs storm troper: literly send him in space with a force push
One was beaten by a little girl with 0 training. The other annihilated an entire Jedi Order...
i think you mean an entire galactic republic
lol A former stormtrooper was able to land a hit on him
@@DeathMetalThrasher 💀💀💀
I don't think that's fair. Rey is a Mary Sue after all.
@@ShamanMcLamie the time has come for us to rename Mary as Rey
Really wish they wrote the new trilogy better, I really hate complaining about things nowadays :/
Sh@t got me feeling like Squidward
The worst is that the sequel trilogy actually had some interesting characters that could have been expanded so much, but the Mouse doesn't care about that.
@@chrono2208 brooooo, the characters😭😭😭
If EP. 9 wasn't what it is, it'd be so much better. There was ZERO buy-in, no character development in the supporting cast, dumb retconning, and no not heavily clichéd main character development in the entire movie. EP. 7 had it's ups and downs, but was forgivable, and EP. 8 generated some intrigue. Could have been great...
@Airock the Great the social justice thing was just Disney tryna slap a coat of paint of some trash. They hired a diverse cast but none of the characters were worth a damn. Finn’s character was just following a white woman around for 3 movies and we barely saw any of Poe’s character. What irks me now is that some people think diverse casting is what caused this movie to fail but if you changed all the main cast to white people it’s still just a bunch of trash
@@bando6558 Yeah i hate the diversity argument. It kinda defeats the point of legitimate criticism
"Kylo was just as intimidatng as his grandfather" nah, not at all. Vader had personally mass murdered Jedi as a career. What had baby-rage Ren done?
Vader stomps, I have no idea why anyone would even consider Kylo. Vader has plenty of more experience and raw force power than kylo. It’s been proven many times. Vader’s feats and Kylos don’t compare at all. Vader with no lightsaber beating a Jedi master said to be the strongest etc, while kylo hasn’t really fought anyone but fin and Rey which don’t compare tbh
He also hasn't fully committed or learnt the ways of the dark or light side.
But can Vader Skype call Rey? No he can't.
Vader has lost his max potential due to his body parts getting cut off but he is still one of the strongest force users he meditates and has come much closer to the force
but what about the dyad...
Whatever tf that's supposed to mean
I love how you say kylo isnt a “darth maul level threat” but maul would also wipe the floor with kylo💀
I would argue that. Maul would get bullied by kylo. Not only is he the grandson of the strongest force entity ever born(which if even a fraction of that beings potential fell to kylo would be more than enough to murder maul), but he was also trained by the strongest grandmaster the jedi ever knew, and snoke(the guy with more force knowledge than even sidious, who trained maul).
The only thing you really got against kylo is that he lost to rey, but even sidious lost to her, and I'd be willing to bet money that she'd beat vader(who we all know for a fact would erase maul). It's kinda what happens when a mary sue fights literally anyone. They just win
If we judge purely off training, kylo has an undoubtable edge over maul. Like I'm convinced kylo could beat maul with an electrical stick(like vader did to that one jedi master).
@@liambrasier6590 your arguement is a glorified “his grandpappys stronger so he wins”
@@liambrasier6590 Does this guy know who mauls mom is.
@@liambrasier6590 mother talzin was powerful. that was maul's mom. by your argument, maul and ben are equals and that my friend makes no sense because legends existed and some of that is canon
@Shamiul Pervez I hate Star Wars fans there more worst then Batman fans
Vader has the most diverse and some of the best force feats in all of star wars canon.
He’s crushed AT-ATs
used the force to swim through and survive being hit by a giant tsunami of lava on mustafar,
Shown precision manipulation of the force among the most complex we’ve seen anywhere in canon , using the force to navigate through light speed, manipulating his empty suit with subtle movements that were life-like,
redirecting in flight missiles,
stopping bombs from detonating right in front of him,
putting a ship back together with the force,
created force fields strong enough to resist various explosions and debris,
survived entire buildings collapsing seemingly unharmed,
survived an actual direct lightning strike,
taken down his own Zillo-beast Kaiju like creature single handedly called the ENDER,
defeated countless Jedi and inquisitors casually,
faced an entire rebel army squadron in the Vader down comic, and much, much more.
Canon has really been dedicated to creating many comics exploring Vader’s internal struggle and power, and as of right now, not enough comics/ books have been released to give Kylo similar attention.
I think it will take more source material until we can get a more definitive and fair answer to the Kylo vs Vader fight.
Vader just has too many feats to his name right now, and while he does have a few anti feats to help balance it out, they are drowned out by the incredible things he’s been recorded accomplishing.
Darth Vader also defeated the Jedi Battlemaster Cin Drallig during the Jedi Temple Attack in Ep III. Drallig was the temple lightsaber instructor and head of security, as well as one of the most skilled swordsmen in the Jedi Order. It's even more impressive that Vader/Anakin beat him while striking down his padawans who fought alongside their master.
You can see Anakin fending off Drallig's swings while choking a female padawan when Obi-Wan looks at the Jedi Temple security footage
@Dragon with Internet connection and they also did it right, they actually built them up instead of mary sue them
This is not cannon but legends
@@nick-sx5ob cannon?
@@nick-sx5ob Actually, every feat I've listed is from Disney Canon!
Here's a list of some of my sources:
*Lords* *of* *The* *Sith* novel from 2015 which has incredible Vader speed feats in particular.
*Thrawn:* *Alliances,* a 2018 novel that showcases Vader's precision and creativity with the force.(suit manipulation, lightspeed navigation etc.)
*Star* *Wars* *Vol* *2* comic Issue #2 from 2015 is the AT-AT Feat
*Darth* *Vader* *2015* comic. Includes him creating potent force shields, redirecting missiles, numerous duel feats, etc.
*Vader* *Down* 2015 that is best known for when he takes on an entire rebel army squadron, company, and Battalion.
*Darth* *Vader:* *Dark* *Lord* *of* *the* *Sith* comic from 2017. My personal favorite which is probably responsible for Vader's most impressive and diverse feats. (lava/ water ocean survival, missile deflection, ancient sith lord and powerful Jedi master fights, endured lighting strike, reconstructed exploded ship, inquisitor stomp, etc)
And finally *Vader* *-* *Dark* *Visions* 2019 comic where he defeats the Giant Kaiju-like monster.
All comics were released by Marvel and there are even more with great feats, and besides looking up the dates, these are just the ones that come to mind. Disney has made it so Canon Vader has better relative feats than legends, which is definitely surprising. I'd recommend checking some of them out, especially the 2017 Vader comic if your interested! Hope you have a great day!
"I find your lack of faith disturbing"
Vs:
"Mom says it's my turn on the Xbox"
As far as potential ill always go with the guy who was LITERALLY conceived from the force
But kylo ren is anakin’s grandson so that means he is also conceived with the force
@@yokenshi4869 with 2 parents?
@@yokenshi4869 no not the same anakin was literally born from the force as generations go kylo is just human with a great connection to the force since anakin->leia->kylo no where near raw force potential as vader/anakin
@@yokenshi4869 no
@@dread3165 agreed, very different.
No way Phasma could beat Boba Fett.
Fr tho, Boba would stomp her. Maybe if she triples the price he’ll let her live
@@cocolahoff4292 best comment ive ever heard just got back into battlefront
If it's stated, it's fact. She can take him on regardless if you like her or not.
@@alexdeghost2729 The way i see it she ain't proved herself enough like Boba has that's almost like saying Finn could beat Fett which we know he can't.
@@simpleclonetrooper2740 she could take boba unfortunately she is literally a tank
If Vader didn’t lose to obi he’d be sooooo strong like god tier strong.
he is stronger than og anakin vader has unlimited potential
His suit hurt him giving him more money age when fighting, Vader is stronger with the suit
He would decemate anyone in his path
Anakin in TCW brought 2 literal gods to their knees (the son and the daughter). He basically was a god
Only if he disciplined himself as thoroughly as he did post amputation; the biggest reasons Vader was so terrifying are in tandom the necessary refinement of his force powers into near surgical level precision as opposed to his near barbaric bludgeoning through combatants because he didn't have to train to be strong in the force pre mustafar; alongside his constant agony from his ever present injuries and intentionally sadistic suit bringing him great power in the dark side through pain. Had Anakin (or early Vader if you will) won against Obi Wan it would be a much longer process for him to become so skilled as opposed to gifted in the force.
Anakin at his full potential had the power to one-hand not one, but TWO omniversal Force Gods who can literally manipulate the fabric of the Force itself, and made them both kneel. Even someone like Vitiate and Nihilus, Sith Lords who can devour entire galaxies' worth of life force without breaking a sweat can't defeat the goddamn Chosen One, even Anakin as an older teen could decimate Kylo.
I still haven't seen the sequel trilogy, but even I know that Darth Vader would have no issue with curb stomping Kylo Ren. Darth Vader was able to hunt down most of the remaining Jedi even while being held back after having all of his limbs cut off and becoming mechanical and his suit causing him a lot of discomfort on his stubs.
You saved yourself some brain damage then, Vader would murder Kylo within 3 seconds no contest
Silence anime pfp
None of that is cannon anymore, he goes over that in the vid.
@@XenophonQ yeah the Vader fanboys will say anything to make him look better in every way. I like both but I honestly do know Vader would win, Kylo would put up a good fight though.
@@DeadnotAlive I honestly don’t think Kylo would even put a good fight against Vader. Let’s be realistic. Anakin has WAY more experience than Kylo.
Vader would wreck him without even igniting his saber
He won't beat dathh maul without his force abilities
@@flashyk2430 vader would beat maul with and without lightsaber
@@carito2939 theirs a comic where, Vader had to beat maul using the force dumb a** GOOFY!!!!
@@melmao6531 yeah, and I said he couldn't heat him, if Vader only used a lights saber
He does to Kylo what he did to Cal and Cere.
I mean anakin was literally born from the force so imma go with him
Bro this is such a good video great job
I’m pretty interested in seeing this even though I’m convinced it’s Vader
Edit: After watching this I’d say the result is fair, but the Vader fanboy within me shall place them on the same level rather than saying episode 9 Kylo could beat him
I share this sentiment, I'd probably still say vader has the upper hand vs either rey or kylo if all things being equal (which i believe vader is stronger) vader has much more expereince fighting other lightsaber users
It's stupid to honestly place them on both scales. Vader has double the life experience that kylo could ever had, even when you account for both having training as jedi and sith. Comparing them is comparing the classic dinosaur vs ant scenario. It's simply impossible. Though on a lesser scale if vader wants to test kylo's force abilities, though he would just eventually be killed by them. Canon Vader is still on a much higher level
In Star Wars, it’s nowhere near that simple. You can have all the power, but it’s your training and skill that determines how strong you are. Such as, we know Anakin’s potential was far more than anyone else. His midiclorian count was the highest ever recorded. But he was weaker than Yoda, Mace Windu, even though he had the bigger number. In an actual fight, Vader is the winner, 9/10 times. He’s a far superior duelist, with a fighting type Kylo will have never seen, because he invented it himself. Vader is cold and calculating, an experienced fighter who has been in hundreds of battles. He can and will out think Kylo. His force abilities are far more boned through decades of use and mastery. And the thing that people most forget is that he is a Sith Lord. He can manipulate Kylo, enrage him, throw him off and use his own emotions against him, making him far easier prey, and we know Kylo to be the type to fall to this. We also know Vader to be the type to talk trash in a fight. Vader is the far superior combatant.
@@acheroneclypse277 isn’t there a comic where Vaders avatar is seen literally soloing the avatar of every Jedi that would’ve existed around order 66 I’d say that already proves who wins
@@saviourofdreamlandz4099 yeah but I doubt the avatars were anywhere close to the real thing
Holy crap... SETH’S SCALING STAR WARS NOW?!?! It’s LIT!!!🔥🔥🔥🔥
Vader: One of the stronger jedi/sith Lord in the galaxy
Kylo: i am emo veder now
Kylo Ren killed a big lizard.
Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader got the literal embodiments of the force to bow before him, combated numerus Sith and Jedi alike, both in the temple during order 66, and hunting down surviving Jedi of the order after pretty much spearheading the downfall of the Jedi order as a whole along with the Republic. Also, Darth Vader literally tore down the barrier between the living and the dead, and killed a planet sized creature by himself. On top of that, he showed the galaxy what "fear" truly felt like, annihilating entire divisions of troops single handedly on many occasions, killing a number of other considerably dangerous creatures, etc. Vader can also keep himself alive for a time using the force alone, as seen in various instances when his suit is badly damaged. And again there was the point made that the suit itself was a rather nice buff to Vader's abilities. So now imagine all of this on rage mode with a burning desire to kill his opponent no matter what.
Kylo, your free trial of life has ended, please contact Jesus if you would like to renew your account with a subscription, or just accept that Darth Vader would stomp you the same way Australians stomp pesky spiders.
Darth Vader would win.
After the new episode of the Mandalorian, there is no shot in hell Captain Phasma could take him on in a fight.
@Andrew Manansala That’s weird cuz wasn’t Boba pure gun/hunting vs Phasma straight brawler/soldier?
@@Zuzublu boba is a hunter, phasma is a soldier. Hunters are far more specialized, while soldiers are just sorta pretty good at everything. Boba is much more skilled, but Phasma’s superior weaponry might be able to take him out.
Boba also has portable high ground
@@neonwaffle3327 nah Boba claps phasma easy. She lost to finn
@@mattclark6465 She got blindsided...like Boba lol.
They literally just did that to make phasma cooler bc shes as stupid as everything else in the sequels. Boba is a clone of the best bounty hunter in the galaxy no way this random soldier can take him
well if kylo got stomped by a scavenger and almost by a stormtrooper obviously he get stomped by the dark lord of the sith...
Vader (dang thx for all the likes guys)
Not really fair to point out to his heavily nerfed state.
@@blueblade6174 his prime would be dogwalked
@@metalreignz6557 not sure what that even is supposed to mean
@@blueblade6174 kylo in his prime loses to weakend vader
@@metalreignz6557 no
The way Kylo Ren uses his lightsaber, you would think it's his 1st time using one. He swings it like a club.
Darth vader: I wear a mask to survive
Kylo ren: I wear a mask to look “cool”
Don't act like it isn't cool.
@@maggogieraffe3296 It isn't cool. If you're gonna wear a mask to make yourself look cool then choose a less flat design. Kylo Ren's mask isn't horrible but Vader's is way better. So is Malgus'.
@@skeptic_lemon I prefer Kylo's, Star Killer's, Darth Raven's a shit ton more then Vader's.
I 100% dislike Darth Malgus's GTA v re-breather.
@@anxietyplague I agree though that Revan's mask is really cool
@@skeptic_lemon just like I said in a halo video it doesn't matter the beauty about how different every damn thing is. Is that everyone can find something within that universe that they like and get involved with the community toxic bs.
Darth Vadar took full power of electric storm in a metal suit from Senator palaptine and still threw him off the edge--Darth Vadar
*Seth uploading twice in a week
Me: "thats impossible"
For me this isn't even close. Vader wins as he had much more experience fighting other Force users and the way Sidious rag dolled Kylo off a cliff shows he was nowhere near the power of Vader.
If anakin has enough power to bring the embodiment of the light and dark side of the force down to they’re knees, and replace they’re dad then he’s more powerful than kylo
Yep, its that simple.
*their
@@bacongaming1353 oh… was here to do that myself.
Is this a joke. Kylo isn't even really a character and he was a terrible duelist.
Can I ask what you're basing the "terrible duelist" comment on? If it's his fights with rey, I really feel like a loss to a mary sue shouldn't be counted on your record. Cause he did solo all the knights of ren at once, which were supposedly each better than phasma who could take on boba fett(another legendary jedi hunter). Granted we don't get to see him fight anyone else for real(not counting that bullshit they did to Luke).
@@liambrasier6590 Lol darth maul would stare at him and kylo would lose his shit and run he is the justin bieber of the star wars shitty fan fiction they now call canon.
@@liambrasier6590 you're answering your own question. His feats are heavily reliant on assumptions about his enemies power, never actually fought a jedi master in his life, has trouble defeating one stormtrooper and one amateur force user with a lightsaber even though his hate and sadness over killing his dad should have buffed him in the dark side. He soloed guys who "should" be around boba fett level, with no real way to compare them to each other, and all his other feats are either offscreen or don't say much about how strong he is in the force.
@@cruximperator Maul litterarely had a hard time even defeating jedi Padawans.
@@darkwolf4434 let's not just gloss over him killing a top 3 jedi master in the universe at the time...while at the same time fighting their apprentice who was a jedi knight at the time (or of that level). Also, struggling against padawans is a serious misuse of the term, he would curb stomp entire groups of Jedi padawans along with their master, with very few instances of struggling to a point of concern. Sidious almost took maul in as an apprentice instead of Dooku and would've if not for obi Wan
Me: Sees Title
Also me an intellectual: it's evidently clear who wins and who looses.
Great job! it’s a very thought through analysis in this video.
I enjoyed watching it
Kylo Ren 1:15 - 6:06
Darth Vader 6:06 - 9:30
Zillo Beast 9:30 - 15:23
Force Potential 15:23 - 21:16
Scale 21:16 - 24:30
What a load of overhyped, embellished shilling. So many cherry picked factoids.
@@yrooxrksvi7142
What?
Seth is on a madness rn. If he keeps uploading like this I'll attain heaven.
Yeah, it's clear to see many times over that when you make well-thought out, interesting videos and produce quality contentcovering a wide range of topics, people will watch and ultimately the audience grows. Not throwing shade at Seth or anything but imo this is one of the best videos he's made to date.
Is this battle even a question? The winner of this battle is obvious...
"Messa be a killin you both now!!!!"
Watto is the obvious winner.
Darth jar jar will beat both of them at the same time in one second
@@and8091 nah, on second thought, Dex would clap both of them
@@gamingdragonofmordor3770 nah, Gonk droid solos all of them.
Darth jarjar kills them then dies to Dex which dies to cloners they die to gonk droid
Kylo: loses a saber fight against someone who’s never used one before
“Yeah Kylo has a chance”