Every Sith From Weakest To Strongest
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- In this video, we go over every Sith from Star Wars and rank them from weakest to strongest . Just who is the strongest sith? Is Revan stronger than Darth Vader? Is Sidious stronger than Valkorion? Here we go over the history of all the most famous Sith in the legends continuity.
(Includes information from the original and prequel trilogy Star Wars movies, the movie novelizations, and all legends canon content, no disney 2014+ canon)
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In
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What if you did ranking every Shinobi
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I remember getting into Star Wars & looking for some debates online. These 2 guys were literally arguing from 2008-2019. Taking a month or so break every now & then. absolutely insane commitment
WAIT WHAT??? LOL
Why did they stop
It's like the Elbaf Giants from One Piece lol
LMAO that’s gotta be a record length for an argument
@@sheluvprada I’m pretty sure it was a Starkiller debate. There was 1 just guy screaming at everybody like 3 times a week, but he had 1 guy who was like his anti Starkiller nemesis who would only comment like 2-3 times a month usually but would leave absolute novels trying to debunk every little thing the other guy said
Sad to see Jar Jar wasn't included, the evidence is clear he is far above Sidious.
Lol
class S kept in secret
Not if Sidious has the high ground.
"Jar-Jar is the key". Also disappointed Dooku's on the list - he's not a sith
@@ctrdnaskelo2541 then why did he have the name Darth Tyrannus
New fans don’t realize how much of a beast Legends Luke was. Dude could beat almost anyone who wasn’t on the level of Abeloth or amped by her powers. Sith lords got bullied by legends luke constantly.
Fr bro
If i ever get into the clusterfuck of lore that is star wars in depth and legends i look forward to this
@@mvshenhon8966
I'd recommend looking into the Darth Bane trilogy. It's a great book series. It tells about the creation of the Rule of Two.
@@mvshenhon8966 also if you want a better storyline dive into the Yuzhan Vong War
And it still makes you wonder.... What if anakin never lost his legs or arms. 🤯
"This video will be using Legends canon, not Disney canon post 2014."
And that is the moment I liked this video.
I think it's because of Been Solo/Kylo Ren's habit of slashing at everything in sight with his lightsaber (which is pretty cool-looking) if things go wrong.
In reality, apart from Palpatine and Snoke, there are no Siths in the sequel trilogy, because Kylo Ren, having a master that is a clone of Palpatine (Snoke), is objectively not a Sith
According to disney, legends is not canon. I'd choose legends, f disney @@canebatman0
Nihilus is like Star Wars' version of Imagine Breaker. Technically weak by "conventional" standards, but has unique properties that lets him win most actual matchups.
Which is why Star Wars scaling is so weird. Some sith and Jedi have special abilities which give them the biggest edge but have little to ok amounts of fighting power.
Kind of why I prefer Starwars debates over other series in many ways tbh. It isn't always Character A > Character B > Character C.
Many specific hax, techniques and skills can give characters the circumstances they need to win against specific characters.
The combo Revan and Meetra Surik was deadly. They where not the most strong in a 1v1 but the where on of the most strong to build a army and fight with it. They killed Nihilus.
Light Yagami would lose against the weakest Sakura in a fight, but he could kill her while taking a crap with the death note
Yeah. It's weird, cause the strongest character isn't much more stronger than the weakest one (at least talk about this tierlist)
The only real issue with scaling alot of the rule of two sith is that a lot of them killed their masters via, poisoning, blowing them up in ships, or cave ins, and not through direct combat
And the fact Sidious didn’t train his students to become stronger then himself
@@KumaoftheForest facts, he even said blatantly that maul was never a true sith more of a darkside assasin
@@justincarter1217 Sidious don’t have a single apprentice that he fully trained. Maul is more of an Sith assassin, Dooku is just a political pawn and he deemed Vader as a failure and pretty much gave up on him
And the fact that the Sith prioritize gaining rank and power within the Order over gaining all of the knowledge that their masters had makes the idea of the rule of two far more flawed and incomplete than what is presented to the fans, and certainly what is coated about by Sith who champion this ideology.
@@Silver4Hire when did he deem Vader to be a failure?
I ain’t gonna lie I’ve been waiting for a vid like this cause the sith just vary wildly in power especially when compared to current generations
I second that. I know the main trilogies, played KOTOR, and know some of the extended universe. But I wouldn’t consider myself comfortable enough to even be gain power scaling
We need too see more sith v sith for proper scaling
@@williamswain2303 Not too likely because the rule of two is in effect unless they went back and did like an old republic movie which would be hype.
What I like about the Sith is they are strong in areas where the current Era demands.
Some Eras required a ruthless warlord while others require scientist. It's just a matter of what the overall plan needs at the current time.
Agreed
Unpopular opinion:
I feel like Count Dooku should be rated higher on this list, you kind of breezed past him without giving credit to any of his feats. He's the only person in Star-wars to be a direct Padawan to both the greatest light-side user (Yoda) and dark-side user (Sidious) in one lifetime. He was a prodigy Jedi for 70 years, teacher of Jedi Knights, known to best Mace Windu in sparring, and said to be Yoda's greatest failure. And then he spends the rest of his life learning about the dark side from the greatest dark side user of all time, including force lightning. His form two fighting style (Makashi) was specifically designed for lightsaber duelling, and he had perfected it for decades. An argument could be made that when it comes to pure lightsaber combat Count Dooku is amongst the best, even better than his master Sidious. Considering he has more training and combat experience, and was able to fight on even ground against Yoda, after being fatigued by Obi-Wan and Anakin. Dooku is one of the only people, in all of Star Wars, to have a complete understanding of the light & dark side of the force.
People who think Dooku lost to Anakin should also remember:
1. The fight started off as a 1v2. Dooku had to contend with Obi-Wan at the same time as Anakin. It definitely would've fatigued Dooku a bit, and is hardly a fair fight.
2. Dooku was far past his prime, and was at the end of his life (age-wise)
3. Sidious never wanted Dooku to kill Anakin, and he was told to draw out Anakin's rage during their fight.
I just feel like more respect should be put on Dooku's name, considering how gifted he was in lightsaber duelling and force abilities. Dooku is class-D while Vader is ranked class-B, when it's very clear Vader is weak against force lightning and Dooku is very good at that. A prime Count Dooku, who is comparable(ish) in force abilities with the greats like Yoda & Sidious, and is in the argument for one of greatest lightsaber duellist, should be rated higher than class-D.
I’m sorry bro you deserve more than five likes for this whole book of a comment
Yeah I totally agree
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X
Agree
His abilities are pure and he has so much knowledge
I wouldn't argue dooku is a better duelist than sidious. Sidious is a master of every form of Lightsaber combat, able to blend them and transition between them effortlessly. Even if dooku had better skills with makashi (which wouldn't be by much), which is unlikely to begin with, it wouldn't be enough to compete with sidious having similar levels of skill in every other lightsaber form, whereas dooku just has the one. Not to downplay the accomplishments of Darth Tyrannus, but there is no legitimate argument that he was a better duelist than Sidious.
I disagree with the placing of Savage. He had the potential to be on a level with Maul, yes, but he never even came close to reaching that potential. Ranking him above the triumvirate, Revan, Exar Kun etc. is just ridiculous.
Agreed
Agreed but if he had more training he would be
Absolutely
Even Maul shouldn't be above the triumvirate.
I agree with you. The only thing that can even give him credit for that potential is when he raged and force handled Doku and Ventress at the same time.l
Sidious also feared Vader’s power that he gave Vader inferior mechanical upgrades compared to the ones grievous had
Not technically true, originally he did, but he also offered Vader and upgrade to his suit, but Vader turned it down because he preferred having a strong connection to the dark side. He felt that the new suit wouldn’t cause him as much pain and would make killing Jedi too fast and easy.
@@nodefiance9178 new or legends?
@@MrTreymeister legends iirc, also he turned it down because he think he doesn’t deserve it, he should be in constant pain (he blamed himself for Padme’s death)
@@Silver4Hire legends was a darkly beautiful showing of vaders psyche after rots. He was truly broken after that and yet that was the very thing that gave him all his strength
@@TY-km8hj what strength? He never beat anyone powerful as vader and lost to obi wan as anakin. While he was anakin he did beat dooku who is FAR FAR stronger then anyone vader killed or ever could kill. Vader was weak and had to stab himself to beat maul.vader is over hyped
"Death is a concept invented by the Jedi" and Darth Jar Jar is the only Sith that hasn't died. Just think about that
Kinda crazy honestly
Jar jar was killed actually he's currently dead in the star wars timeline as well
He's the one who gave palpatine the power of the senate
@@courier5156 Well no shit he'd be way too old if he was still alive from the time Anakin was a kid to when Mar Rey Sue was alive lol
@@blyat8832 no he was killed by Darth Vader in a comic
One of the things I love about Revan is that even if he wasn't OP in his affinity of the Force he was an absolute genius. He used his intelligence more than relying on the force all the time. Using military tactics and even knew the ways of the Echani to combat his enemies. Then throw in the fact that he was well versed in powers of both the Jedi & Sith incorporating both philosophies to find balance and you get one tough pickle! AAAANnnd....he's a natural born leader that people gravitate to almost without effort.
Revan is one of the greatest wielders of the force ever, not most powerful, but most prestiged in his knowledge.
Revan is awesome, but as a Sith he didn't strike me as anything special. As a redeemed character and after he got crazy powerful, but not as a Sith.
So on this list he should be pretty low as he didn't reach his peak until way after he quit being a Sith.
@@majinjason As a Sith Revan's holocron literally gave Darth Bane most of his knowledge, including the idea of the rule of two. Revan turned the Dark side energies of Malachor against the republic fleet, turning hundreds of jedi, thousands of republic troops to the darkside, those DS energies being potent enough to corrupt Kreia( darth traya to the darkside) He had the ability to control the starforge, the ancient sith(Karness murr/ajunta pall, gaining their power from a simple star map. By the time he became a sith, he'd learned all he could from the Jedi order.
Same with Bane
@@Ahzuv Actually he is one of the most powerful Force wielder. Second only to Vitiate and the closest as his equal.
Ive always liked Nihilus because his only weakness was that he won. Like he was too good of a sith. Dude annihilated things to the point the only reason you were able to take him on was because he had exhausted all of his food essentially. Similar to a shark that evolves to the point of eating everything in its habitat, while it is immensely powerful, it will inevitably starve and begin to weaken because it became too efficient of a predator.
Pretty much vampires that fed on the entire human populace, and when they run out of food, they starve to death.
@@MasterJunior93 that’s why Halo’s flood are so terrifying. They access memories and learn from the infected, and improve their intelligence at a drastic speed. Once they clear a planet they travel to the next, once they clear a system, next. A galaxy, next. Wouldn’t be surprised if they learned to travel through multi-verse had they not been stopped
Easy said imagine having so much unnaturally musclemass you have to eat constantly...and if you stop you die
His only weakness was himself in the sense that he became a living wound in the force. Essentially, his existence gave birth to Meetra Surik who was immune to the Mask of Nihilus and sought to defeat him.
@@MasterJunior93 or vampires who wanna get rid of the sun
Very well crafted!
Hey I know you!
You are literally my favorite youtuber ever, is there anyway you could create your own spin on this comparing the power levels of ancient sith with those of newer sith?
If EvanNova95 liked this. This video must be well-made.
Evannova lol nah bro. To much misinformation. The orbalisk armor was an infection that made bane physically weak?
AYO! Did not expect you here, just wanna say that I love your vs battle and weakest to strongest videos!
A big chunk of this makes sense, like having Krayt top tier above Sidious and Nihilus being...potentially anywhere on the list. However you can't honestly be saying Malgus, Traya and Sion are below Savage Opress...that doesn't make any sense given feats. Especially considering Sion's hack ability of being almost completely immortal and Malgus's stupid feats of durability and pain tolerance
Yeah, sion is practically doom slayer if he was a sith. Literally too angry to die.
I agree, any sith that can't conjure lightning feels like they're bottom tier, with maybe Maul higher up because of him eating damage and being too angry to die, but still well below Malgus. Malgus is a beast who took two sith lords, one of the best bounty hunters in the galaxy, and an elite Imperial agent both trained in subduing force users to defeat him. Kalig's heir also feels like a wildcard, depending on how many sith ghosts he can eat before a battle. Just think for a moment and realize if he gets enough, he might have the power to subdue even Vitiate/Valkorion to his will.
@@kauske it isn't just that, it's also lackluster force defenses. Just look at Savage and Ventress vs Dooku. Savage sucks
@@Hiddenlotuslord He's basically 100% untrained, so it makes sense he's shit, he's just strength with no technique. IDK why you'd take what are basically sith acolytes like Ventress, Maul and Savage and even put them on the same level as a fully trained sith.
Most of the old republic 'average' Sith are at least as strong as Dooku, master duelists, powerful in the force, etc. They literally wouldn't even make it off of Korriban if they couldn't match up. And potential without training isn't worth crap.
@@kauske yeah if u wanna say Dooku could beat like Malak I'd at least be down to hear it. Maul and Opress.... absolutely not lol
Couple issues with the rule of two power scaling, Darth bane did set up the rule of two with the idea of the strongest always surviving, but he also knew that the sith would need to become more cunning and manipulative as with only two, no matter how strong the two were, they would not be able to overcome the Jedi’s numbers in open combat. So each successor wasn’t always necessarily stronger, often they were just more cunning and better at picking moments to back stab.
Darth Plagueis wasn’t stronger than Darth tenebrous, as he was fearful of fighting him one on one, and tenebrous basically told him the only way he would take over as the dark lord was backstabbing him, which is what he did, just as palpatine waited for a moment of weakness to strike, so did plagueis by killing him when tenebrous was focusing on using the force to contain an explosion protecting them.
It doesn’t say if tenebrous also became the dark lord using treachery, but it’s probably safe to assume he did if his advice for his padawan to become a dark lord was to back stab. I guess my point is, at some point in the rule of 2, the advancement of the sith became less about power and far more about treachery, and it’s not safe to assume it was just the strongest survived anymore, it’s possible in terms of power, that later iterations of the rule of two might’ve been weaker than people like darth bane, exar Kun, or marka ragnos
I agree with everything that you said....I think Bane, Zannah and Cognus are more powerful than all the sith after them except Sidious....Bane literally mastered over a hundred sith rituals and technique from all the holucron that he collected over the years and he teach them all to Zannah...All this knowledge is lost because Cognus chose the wrong apprentice Darth Millennial and we don't know what happen to Darth Zannah and Cognus after Zannah defeat Darth Bane....All the Sith after them seemed to know nothing about sith ritual and sorcery....
But I still think Revan could have been the strongest of them all because he have learned to be a conduit of both light and dark during his battle with Vitiate at Dromund Kaas...If he wasn't defeated then, he could have mastered this technique and become the strongest force user ever...
Darth Tenebrous is a fanatic of Darth Bane so its safe to assume that he don't use treachery... Darth Bane says this to Zannah during their battle in the stone prison.. "Only the strongest has the right to rule the Sith! The title of Dark Lord must be seized, wrenched from the all-powerful grasp of the Master!"
@@markfourtwenty9897 maybe Revan, but there’s a lot of ancient sith who were so strong no one dared Challenge them. I don’t think darth tenebrous respecting bane meant he wouldn’t use treachery. When darth zannah admitted she was gonna wait for darth bane to age because he was too strong to face then, he banished her as that meant she wouldn’t be facing him at his strongest. Darth tenebrous straight up told darth plagiues to stab him in the back. I’m sure he had a great deal of respect for him, but that doesn’t really mean that he didn’t use treachery to get his position.
@@bryanfoster326 Respect and honor are fools prized and Glory is of no use to the dead...Tenebrous don't follow Bane out of respect...He follows Bane because ALL of his wisdom are for the absolute benefit of the Sith...Darth Bane's teaching about treachery is not very clear because the Master should always be prepared for the apprenticed its the Masters fault if he was betrayed...
Darth Bane is also obsessed in studying all the wisdom of ancient Sith and he views them with contempt cause most of them are short sighted and arrogant which makes them easy to manipulate and it leads to their downfall....He also think that their power are product of exaggeration...
Newer Sith like Vitiate and Revan are more powerful than ancient Sith because they collect all the knowledge of all the Sith before them then they combine them to create new unique techniques...So I don't agree that ancient means more powerful because knowledge grows over time....
I mean a tonne of knowledge was lost when Zannah killed Bane, she was too impatient so already the rule of two was failing.
Bane realised this and tried looking for a new apprentice but couldn't prevent his death.
Love the video, but there’s no way Maul and Savage Opress are above Bane and Revan. Maul is one of my favorites, but he lacks the raw force potential of a lot of the guys you put him above.
maul does not lack ANY potential.. his issue is his inability to control his immense raw power
Maul is pretty objectively stronger than Bane via the rule of two. Bane is the weakest Sith under the rule of two, Vader and Sidious are the strongest.
well, as mentioned in the video Revan is basically just known from video games, in which you have to have your characters doing epic shit, maul is most likely far stronger but the clone wars and all related material are too family friendly too honestly show anything of the likes of Revan, and also the clone wars doesnt even show us any of the force potential he has due to him basically only fighting lightsaber duels and not really using any force abilities besides a few force pushes here and there.
@@solitairemario The rule of two is flawed though. Time progression≠stronger Sith. Seeing as how there’s no competition, it would more likely stagnate.
@@4477superman 12:20 The Dark Side becomes more powerful over time, thus leading to more powerful Sith Lords overtime. This is the reason why Vader and Sidious are so much stronger than the other Sith Lords, and why the Post-Empire sith are ridiculously powerful. At the very least, the Rule of Two should have progressed far enough that Maul and Savage should be substantially stronger than Bane, Zannah, Cognus and Millenial, who all precede Maul and Savage by ~1000 years.
Something to remember, just because a Dark Lord comes after you, doesn’t mean they are inherently stronger in a fight. For instance, Zannah was completely outclassed by Bane in dueling, her focus was Sith Sorcery, which is how she beat him. Of course you also have people like Sidious who just excel at everything so there’s that too.
Also, Bane was past his peak at that point. His arms were shaking already, the reason he wanted to replace Zannah is because he thought she will only duel him when he'll be really weak.
That's also why it's not true that under the rule of two every sith became more and more powerful - they probably had more knowledge, they might gain more and more influence in politics, they might have more chances financially, but it's not true that every sith is stronger than the one before him.
@@darthrevan6861 Darth Bane definitely wasnt at his peak when he got defeated by Darth Zannah. At that point he already lost his orbalisk armor, which gave him a huge advantage in combat. When fighting against each other with bane having his orbalisk armor, the only reason Zannah wasnt killed is because Bane spared her.
@@themiddletaker6801 the orbalisk armor was a huge amp for Bane in direct lightsaber combat but was also immensely debilitating in basically every other aspect of his life, and not really conducive to his idea of how his new Sith order would ultimately defeat the Jedi at all. He also lost the armor at the end of boom 2, which took place over a decade before he and Zannah first actually fought.
@@darthrevan6861 Also James Luceno in the Plagueis novel created the character of Darth Gravid, a Sith Lord who turned to the Light Side and caused the destruction of plenty of the Rule of Two Sith's knowledge, making a lot of techniques and heights of power of the old Sith unknown for the generations that followed, preceding Tenebrous, this is something else that hints at the ancient Sith not being "locked" behind lower modern Sith like Maul, and in fact being relative to the modern era in scaling, with Vitiate/Sidious being another prime example.
I absolutely agree about Bane. I feel like many of these videos don't always factor in that raw power is not the only factor in battles (and not just in Star Wars). Also yeah, Sidious is pretty much just unbelievably powerful
It’s difficult to scale Nihilus because his AP is basically planetary/multi planetary but he can’t be killed by anything except a being just like him
He basically became a being beyond Sith and Jedi, being the incarnation of the Force's Hunger, which honestly puts him in a classification of its own. Like even a GM Luke has no counter to him because he's connected to the Force.
It's why tier lists for SW Siths don't really work out that well. You have official statements by George Lucas who said Sidious was/is the strongest Sith ever while the EU was still canon, but then you have other authors coming and inserting their power fantasies into their OC Siths, outclassing Sidious, which means that new feats must be given to Sidious. And as bad as Sequel trilogy was, at least it sort of put a limit on Sidious' power, especially since power creeps don't translate well on the big screen.
This technically isn't true Darth Nox would wreck Nihilus based on how he operates.
He was not the most powerful. The power Nihilous displays many Sith had on a smaller scale and both Palpatine and Vitiate applied it planet-wise but they did not trade off their intelligence and control for it. Both of them in Legends were life-draining an entire planet that could sustain them for a long time. Without becoming basically mindless addicts like Nihilous.
@@oryxthetakenking8275 Dude the sever force power can be defended also look at my other comment. EU Sidious out scaled everyone else by raw force power feats.
@@IveBeenWithBruma At least depending on how many force ghosts he can eat beforehand. IMO, Vitiate would be more vulnerable though, since he mostly exists as a non-physical being, whereas Nihilus seems more tied to the physical.
Valkorion has consumed entire planets before. Even in a wakened state. He utterly annihilated Ziost and turned every living thing into dust. Then retreated to Zakuul Killed Darth Marr in an instant Who was the leader of the Sith Dark Council.
Please note
That Ziost feat was a mirror of the very ritual that started his rise to power
Except this time he did it from across the galaxy, without a ritual
He had to use rituals
To me, it's kinda weird that he got defeated at all after ruling the Sith Empire for like 1300 years. Then again, it took pretty much every major Force user in the galaxy at the time to beat his latest attempt at control. But even the Hero of Tython defeating one of his bodies seem kinda shoehorned for the sake of the Jedi Knight story in SWTOR. Games definitely complicate these arguments, because even if the devs write the most powerful character in galactic history it's not a good story if he gets to drain the whole galaxy. Also, that wouldn't fit with anything that came afterwards in the timeline.
Fodder to Sidious
@@user-lp8im7ow8s Uh no. Valkorion would ANNHILATE Sidious
A surprise to be sure but a welcome one
Didn’t expect Seth to drop a Star Wars related banger again
Although he does always upload bangers
Damn, this was a really good video, it was especially nice to see Spirit Exar Kun being acknowledged as Prime Sidious level, as well as Lumiya, Caedus, Prime Krayt and Sarasu being beyond that. My only complaints would be that Pre-Valkorion Vitiate and Legacy Krayt weren't ranked, since they're much weaker than the versions that were on the list, and that a lot of Vader's statements placing him as the most powerful Sith Lord in history (barring Sidious, of course) weren't really used.
You forgot Tulak Hord! He never lost a duel and could casually pull starships out of orbit with the force. He could absorb the power and life force of those he killed, making himself more powerful and was so skilled with a lightsaber it is said he makes everyone else look like they're playing with toys. I honestly believe that Tulak Hord should be at the top of this list
I love Tulak Hord. Definitely deserves top 3 at the bare minimum.
I was pretty sad to see he wasn’t mentioned 😔
@@ImMeE19 for really considering he is mentioned multiple times being one of the strongest
He never fought a single jedi so its hard measure his power. Besides his lightsaber duel skills are good however his force powers only consisted of alchemy which is far outdated and not practical
@@justsomeguywhokeepsgetting4885 Later, Khem Val revealed to Darth Nox that Hord single-handedly broke the sieges laid by Jedi to Imperial strongholds in the Yn and Chabosh. Over a thousand Jedi perished in these battles.[8]
The rule of two suffers from several issues.
First, when scaling against jedi, it must be acknowledged that Philosophicaly and functionally the jedi create stagnation. They preserve the current order so any power they have should be comparable to previous generations.
Second Kaans Sith are repeatedly stated to have it wrong and to be, at best, comparable to the Jedi of their age. Not only that but bane himself believes their defeat inevitable at the hands of said jedi.
Third Bane learns from Revans holocron, which via the logic of how strong malak was was a revan weaker than jedi revan, and many of the things held within were simply too terrible for him to even try. So it is not reasonable to assume that Bane ever reaches Revans level.
Fourth, perhaps most importantly So far, repeatedly during the rule of two knowledge (which is already limited) was lost and or masters died absent direct confrontation. So we don't know FOR SURE that sidous at the point he killed plagueis was stronger than him.
Fifth the pre Bane Sith often have gigantic amount of knowledge and techniques. Revan, for example, meets the tombs in korriban very much alive and active and learns from many of the Sith Lords their entombed. Similarly at malachor. Naga sadow learnt from Marka Ragnos who is acknowledged as the strongest and most effective dark Lord of the era since Adjunta Pall.
Sidious, however, has the benefit of being able to raid jedi information and forbidden texts they've been unable to destroy. Not only that but he directly destroys several masters. He seems to be stronger than Mace, when he's waiting for anakin, and him and yoda fight for real and he overcomes him repeatedly though it is implied to be close at points.
Via the stagnation arguement Sidious is AT LEAST stronger than Kaan era Sith but not nessecarily so powerful that the ancients would be dwarfed by him, with several of them having jedi slaying feats similar or surpassing him.
Essay submitted. Thanks for the video.
Vitiate and Sidious definitely have the best feats out of the sith who dont get instawanked by fighting prime luke
Sidious for being able to create large black holes relatively casually and control them
And vitiate for being able to do the nihilus thing except better, while mind controlling an entire planet, and running an empire across the galaxy
Darth Krayts the rule of one is the only way!
None of the Jedi you mentioned compare to Yoda or Mace and Dark Empire Luke Skywalker had to be amped to defeat Palpatine , he litterally had to cut him off from the force and it took every Jedi in History to seal Sidious's soul away , the rule of two created Sith that powerful, your argument is not valid.
@user-lp8im7ow8s I directly mentioned both yoda and Mace.
The long story short mate was that even when bane begins the rule a giant amount of data has been lost.
And that it is confirmed that, pre sidious, large amounts of what the rule of two sith have gathered is lost.
So to blanketly state that, even factoring those legends exclusive, facts sidious is the most powerful doesn't hold up to me.
@@ryanherbert4878 So? It doesn't mean that they're stronger than Mace or Yoda
Been following Seth since like 2015 ish, kinda crazy to see how far he’s come. More start wars videos, cheers !
Tell him fix his uploads schedule
Only true OGs remember when Seth did "Hypothetical power levels" with Super Saiyan 3 Naruto/Goku fusion and Master Chief
How was his videos back then ? If u can remember. Lol.
@@GJAkuo not of the same quality thus much is for sure 😂
@@dawizz98 you tell him 😂😂
the argument of "this person came later in the rule of 2, therefore they are stronger" doesn't really vibe with me. you're telling me maul, who lost to padawan obi-wan, is stronger than revan, who held his body together with the force to duel vitiate?
Maul was holding back on Obi wan and Obi wan was amped. Yes Maul smacks revan no difficulty due to the rule of two statements he as well has feats to back it up like almost killing tpm palpatine while fatigued
Yes, because Padawan Obi-Wan is stronger than Qui-Gon Jinn who was held in the same regard as Dooku, Mace Windu, and Yoda as one of the strongest Jedi Masters ever trained. Maul was so strong that after a ten second exchange Qui-Gon Jinn was unable to think of anything he could be but a Sith Lord; who had been missing from the galaxy for about a thousand years by this point.
Darth Maul was also the only apprentice of Sidious to be considered a true apprentice besides Anakin. Not even Dooku who fought Yoda to a stalemate was regarded that well by Sidious.
Revan wasn't in the Rule of Two.
Headcannon is strong with this one. No scaling just I dont feel something is true so it isnt lmao
@@dsaasd1256 Yeah, it's not even Appeal To Presentation or Appeal To Narrative. It's just "Well, I think it's silly."
I’m glad a video like this finally has been made. The sith are so vast in power it’s hard to scale them to know just how powerful they are
I think it's a bit unfair to class Valkorion with Sidious. Sidious, Luke, and people placed relative to them, are power-scaled from the perspective of the living force. Vitiate's ambitions were in the cosmic force, and it's impossible to overstate how close he was to actually mastering it.
What is the Cosmic Force?
@@sirenouir closer to the actual main power.
Think living/normal force then the white current, then cosmic... after that it's technically unknown
@@TruthHunterTeen Rey has probably mastered all of these.
@@sirenouir according to Disney? Probs lol.
I'm curious. Where do you think Vader would've been on the list at maximum potential, given the aspect of him being a character who infamously "Never met his true potential?"
Very few Force Users “meet” their potential. Full Potential (Mortis) Anakin/Vader is above this entire list though.
#1, he and Luke have identical potential. After seeing luke crush black holes at his peak, he’d be a revan on steroids with his control of both sides of the force
Anakin was the force. In death, he is a God.
What Lucas said, 2X Sidious. Whether that's ROTS Sidious or if it translates to Dark Empire Sidious is a little vague.
@@jj_2707 anakin full potential is above luke at his peak
Gotta realize, the fact that Sion literately can't be killed by force. He was an alright duelist that won most of his fights through wearing his opponents down, that's why he has all the scars. Traya was over powering him with a force choke but she couldn't do it forever. She would get tired & when she didn't have anymore power to choke him he would still be alive & kill her while she was weak.
Kreia's strength is largely manipulation. She just got in Sion's head and made him believe he had no chance.
Love seeing Seth make more content on Star Wars, keep up the great work 🙌
Too bad it's a complete disaster and all over the place.
I noticed that Ajunta Pall, Tulak Horde, and Andeddu were missing. They were some of the most important and powerful figures in the history of the Sith.
Tulak Hord would body any of them in a lightsaber duel!
Sidious is actually alot more powerful than you think even after a couple looks. Where as most of the sith were trapped in chaos for all eternity after they died it took the souls of every jedi in history to keep sidious trapped inside of chaos. That's a pretty food feat ngl.
I mean, Vitiate/Valkorion just didn't even go to chaos. He sorta got so stupid powerful he transcended Sith, Jedi and everything else. He basically transcended the physical plain to god-hood.
@@kauske sidious in legends content was capable of doing the same force transfers as vitiate could.
@@JoeGuyWhosThere Vitiate doesn't just transfer, he literally possessed an entire planet full of sith lords and Jedi masters, made them murder each other for his benefit, and when you free them, he goes 'oh yeah?' and eats the whole planet anyhow. He's basically a god, even when you killed him as Valkorion, he just moves into your body and proceeds to torment and toy with you like it's a game.
@@kauske Not disagreeing with the vitiate is a god thing but sidious has some bonkers as hell feats as well.
@@kauske Force Storm alone makes Sidious the most powerful Force user, he could pretty much destroy fleets and planets by himself!
The fact that Maul and Savage are ranked higher than Sith like Bane and Malgus tells me that this list is skewed at best.
When it comes to battle, Malgus is a damn monster with his escapades being revered by the likes of Bane, Sidious, and Vader. He had mountains and buildings brought down on him (the latter he was already suffering from prior injuries), and he still steamrolled through his opponents; often multiple simultaneously.
What feats have Maul or Savage done by comparison?
Was Maul ever even a sith lord? He was Sidious apprentice in TPM, and the fact that Plagues is still alive until Sidious becomes chancellor. Maul is never part of the actual Ro2 lineage.
Bane should be so much higher and Marka Ragnos. Ruled the sith for a century, was so powerful his spirit appeared at his funeral.
@@zh1992 maul made it clear that he was a Sith Lord as he’s very powerful with the dark side especially since he was born on a planet full of dark side witches not only that he even made his own spider legs and held it together for decades until he was saved from his brother not only that he destroyed a entire cruiser with just the force
@@papidiesel6627 Maul is a sith assassin; he is indeed strong but no where near the level of the great sith lords before him. His training is only limited to what sidious taught him and he intentionally gave him limited teaching
Maul was not a sith lord, the fact that he was ranked higher than a lot of the other sith lords on this list is hilarious.
True, Malgus is way more powerful than Maul or Savage
Plagueis belongs in S of you read the Plagueis novel.
He never brought forth his full power and had to be nerfed with mortal wounds or being caught off guard by Sidious.
When Sidious finally found out who Plagueis was he trembled at his power. Plagueis told him that was but a portion of the power he could bring to bear.
It’s why Sidious didn’t dare challenge him 1v1 as Sidious saw Plagueis get stronger as the novel went along.
He no longer needed to sleep (showing his progression from the beginning) and continued his mastery of the Sith ways.
Sidious even marveled at how Plagueis sort of aged like a fine wine.
He’s the sage of sages and should have been the main villain in the sequel trilogy had they not messed that up among other things.
beautifully said. clearly the guy who made this video has no real idea what he’s talking about. these rankings are all over the place
Idk if I agree with the direct upscaling post bane. Bane's concept of the rule of 2 was a 1v1 fight between master and apprentice to determine strength and find a valid successor. I think its debatable weather the spirit of this rule was really followed, especially if guys like Sidious were ambushing their masters.
Yeah the idea that Maul is so high up there feels a bit iffy, I agree.
IIRC I thought even Plagueis took sole leadership in a kind of lame way, too? I think his master died in a cave-in or something like that.
@@rider650s I can confirm, I've recently read the plaguies novel and he killed his master by letting him die in a mine accident by closing him in before his master could escape the collapsing mine shaft
@@zainy_inc154 He was confirmed to surpass plaguies tho so it dont matter.
I don’t think Revan is more powerful than Vitiate because of the Revan novel, Revan lost to vitiate in a duel while he had help from Scourge and Meetra, even with his surprise at Scourge’s betrayal, Scourge stated after that even if he hadn’t they wouldn’t have won
True, but Shadow of Revan in Swotor has so e inpact regarding Vitate or one of his bodies
Revan actually nearly killed Vitiate in the novel, despite being weakened and emaciated at the time. This was when Vitiate was at his absolute peak, before he start siphoning his power off to different bodies.
Out of universe so don’t mind what I’ll say but it really pisses me off that they made Vitiate defeat Revan in such a way because SWTOR needed to happen.
@@colonelsanders1349 vitiates ABSOLUTE peak was when he gave all his remaining power to his new life as Valkorion and just straight up ate Ziost from across the galaxy without even using a ritual
@@jakobrenner2230 other than that the Revan novel was a masterpiece
Alright, this needs to be made clear as Abeloth is most definitely not the mother of the Force, seeing as it not only existed long before her, but she was born as what we see her now because of what she did. She was a mortal caretaker to the Daughter and Son back when the Father was not as old and weak as he was when we see them on Mortis, however unlike the biologically immortal Celestials, she would grow old and die, and in an attempt to become like them so she could stay with her family, she used both of the Force Nexuses on either Mortis, or an unnamed planet that the Force nexuses were on before being moved. In drinking from the Font of Power before bathing in the Pool of Knowledge, she broke, not only mentally but physically as the two opposing sides of the Force fought against each other within her body, the two sides trying to gain dominance, and the constant whispering in her mind drove her completely insane as she became a Force Aberration.
Force Aberrations can vary in power, however they are generally entities that can only be combatted by Force users, and aren’t even capable of being detected unless you have a Force user with you. As a result, there are many ships that have gone missing or become derelict wrecks as the crew was killed by a hostile Force Aberration. Normally they tend to stay in their own territory, as that tends to be the spot where they came into being, Abeloth being an anomaly as she wishes to make everyone in the galaxy part of her family, and will kill any who resist.
So, not the mother of the Force, but one of if not the strongest entity born anew from the Force. Though I don’t know if you can say she was also born out of stupidity when you consider her actions that led to her becoming Abeloth.
I feel like he left out a pretty powerful group of Sith from the Old Republic era not saying they are like the strongest or anything, but they certainly have a pretty awesome cool factor which are the Dread Masters you end up fighting across four different raids in SWTOR until you finally come face to face with them in the final one within their palace. I mean they were so badass that two of the Styrak and Brontes transcended death to fight you in the last encounter. Pretty cool and worth some recognition imo.
I absolutely love how Vader is portrayed outside of the movies. He as some great comic runs.
Agreed Dark Times is great
I believe in a hypothetical situation where Vader was either never burned or had gotten his apparent second suit would have been the single strong force user ever. Even with his disadvantages I believe he should have been placed next to Sidious just based on his ability to take down the dark lord
For real and Anakin with all his limbs and full health would be the strongest being ever
His suit had very limited mobility and was very outdated even from the time it was put on him. If he never needed the suit or another alternative, he would have bested everyone and everything to stand against him in the galaxy
Vader without the suit would on par with GM Luke Skywalker. Sidious even stated to Yoda that Vader would become more powerful than both of them.
Don’t forget to mention that Vaders suit was intentionally nerfed in order to stop him from being too strong. Vader was actually intentionally weakened so that he couldn’t surpass Sidious.
Dam, that was good. Loved it. Love the dedication. That really made me challenge my own previous notions about the Sith. I think you just forgot Ajunta Pall, Tulak Hord, Lord Kaan, and Darth Talon. Otherwise great stuff. I love getting new perspectives on Star Wars/Sith lore.
Nihilus should be wayyyyy higher up he can beat most of the people on the list, even some Sith who are resist to force drain can become weak when exposed to nihilus' hunger over long periods of time, so they would have to kill him really fast. They would also struggle with his new red force lightning, considerably more powerful than blue/white
Hax =/= power
He has one hax that makes him strong
But the fact is just because you can beat someone tiers above you doesn't make you as strong as them
@@V2ULTRAKill true even if nihilus beat vader because of his force drain he isn't has close to any other skills
@@exorciste6923😂 nihilus could never even come close to beating Vader.
@@M_03256 yes he can
@@M_03256yes he can easily
I always interpreted Nihilus's force drain to be different from the normal force drain.
Given his status as a wound in the force, it should stand to reason that he has a unique kind of force drain that only The Exile is immune to
Why would you 'interpret' it that way when the game expressly tells you otherwise?
@@papapalps2415 Sometimes the Word of God/Author is just not good... :D
I don’t know if it’s necessarily that *only* the exile could resist it. But rather than when he pulled on Meetra, since she was also a wound, it inherently (not instinctively) pulled back and that is what weakened him enough to lose.
The way I interpreted his power, it was more of a consumption of the force rather than a force channel ability
I would say vitiates force drain ritual is more worthy of being in its own class than nihilus' little trick
Nihilus never drained the very essence of the force itself from a planet (see vitiates Nathema ritual)
Sidious created multiple clones of himself to body-hop, and Valkorion would just hop into anyone. However, only of of them became a FORCE ENTITY, that being Valkorion, and that among other reasons is why I believe Valkorion to be the strongest Sith (more like Darksider toward the end) to ever exist.
I'm more partial to krayt over vitiate,Although i prefer Vitiate over palpatine
They both became entities. We explicitly know per DE and the DE Sourcebook, as well as other sources and characters, that Palpatine was more energy than flesh, and that he could survive fine on his own without a body, at least for rather long and extended periods of time.
These 12 IQ headcannon "arguments" smh
bane would destroy savage
took every jedi ever to contain sidious’s spirit.
no matter what nobody can be as badass as vader. he has reached a point of fame someone can only dream of, the SECOND he breaths u know exactly who it is.
My boy Krayt finally getting some love! It's a shame that almost nobody ever mentions him, he the most badass sith to ever come out of SW, at least in looks and design if nothing else.
I don’t get why everyone says Nihilus wasn’t a good duelist. It took Revan’s top general, Mandalore the Preserver who was another solider with Revan, and Nihilus’ own apprentice who severed her force bond with him making him weaker in order to take him out. Dude was a beast fighting three expert combatants at once and during the fight the trio fighting him talk about how hard it is to keep fighting him and even being in his presence was a strain.
My exile beats him solo while visas and Candyman wait at the door.
Yeah nobody really talks about how he was able to throw hands with all three of them at once and they still needed to weaken him further to win the fight.
I'm glad Seth is doing more Star Wars content. It'll be awesome if he follows this up with a Jedi video
Maul has changed. 20 years ago he was really good with natural abilities and used the force to enhance himself on top of that. He was always medicore with the power of the force, he was just that good naturally. Now 20 years later he has been written differently.
I made a list similar to this, but I made different criteria. Like who was the most powerful, who was the greatest, who was the most successful. It's commonly said on these videos that Palpatine is the most POWERFUL ever. Having read literally EVERYTHING available since 1977, I'd have to say Vitiate was up there with Palpatine in terms of raw power. Bane must be included in that list. But to me, the GREATEST Sith is Tulak Hord. What a badass
Not Kallig? D:
Sidious and valkorion are the strongest, most successful, and the greatest lol
Wow this was not something I expected from you Seth. Look forward to how you scale the Jedi.
As someone who knows almost nothing about star wars beyond the old movie, it's pretty cool hearing all these names and lore 🙂
All the more reason to check out Star Wars Legends content. Manda-LORE and Matt Wilkins are probably the best SWtubers to see about this.
When Seth drops a near half-an-hour video on Legends scaling.
"A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one."
As soon as you listed revan that low i was like hell nah and too only compare him too malak is an insult... but I still appreciated your prospective!
Do you think there’s any version of Anakin that can go up against Garra that would be a fair match.
Myb some live action version if you take hokage gaara idk
*kazekage
Impossible. Garra uses Anakin's greatest weakness and one of the most power weapons in the Star Wars Universe: Sand. The only way Anakin can win is if he had a portable High Ground(Jetpack) and he was bathed in the waters of the Polynesian Spa thus giving him enormous resistance. Otherwise Garra stomps easily.
Well are we counting vader as anakin, cause i believe vader would shit on gaara
@@georgehouliaras7239 actually it's come to my attention that I've missed the joke entirely. I agree genin gaara stomps. Thanks for opening my eyes
The Rule of Two didn't make the Sith stronger after each master-apprentice duo if there were apprentices like Sidious who faced their master in their weakened state, and not while they were fully powered.
Yes I agree there's an inherent flaw with the Rule of Two with apprentices like Sidious and Plagueis. We know how Sidious killed Plagueis. But it's also important to note that Plagueis killed his master Tenebrous in a similar manner: when Tenebrous was distracted and busy containing an explosion in a plasma mine. Plagueis took the opportunity and crashed the top of the cave on to Tenebrous. It was never a one-on-one duel like Bane vs. Zannah.
Also this list is bonkers since it places the likes of Maul and Savage above all the iconic Old Republic Sith lords. Most of the tier arranged by this guy is almost chronologically based except for The Sith Triumvirate being on the bottom and Vitiate being on the top. The rest of the tier list is far more chronological than based on actual feats. Darth Sion alone would decimate Maul and Oppress simply due to the fact that he can't be killed. And he's at the very bottom of this list lol.
@@KhukuriGod Maul would slaughter Sion every time, until he was too tired of Sion returning from the dead... That's how Sion's fight would look with every Prequel era mediocre+ fighter
@@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus Nobody's disputing that. That's basically how he killed Jedi during the Great Sith War and the Jedi Civil War. Sion was a mediocre duelist and a mediocre Force user. But the fact that he can't be killed is what will allow him to eventually butcher Maul and Savage after they've been tired out.
@@RexOlafusVidulusMagnus Also Old Republic Sith like Exar Kun, Revan, Malak, Malgus, Jadus, etc. all would be able to beat the likes of Maul, which is why this list is bonkers. No way in hell is Maul beating Bane and Zannah either.
Seth thank you so much for posting this. Huge fan of both your work and Star Wars so I really appreciate you uploading this content. I've been sharing it while I listen. As a fan of both old and new materials I get that this would have taken a lot of research so epic video really
Commenting from "first time watching".. Through the video, I thought Nihilus was misplaced, but at the 17 min mark, you made sense finally. Thanks for putting my mind to ease, and thanks for making this video.
The Sith are the literal embodiment of “I’m just built different.”
I disagree Zannah states that he never used those moves during practice against her so that doesnt mean he didnt have them during the Orbalisk times. Also one thing your forgetting is its defense. Bane with the Orbelisk can take more dammage than bane without even later and thats a huge advantage. It doesnt matter how much faster or how strong the strikes if they cant damage Bane in his armour. Bane may be more technical or possibly similar speed to when he had the orbalisk maybe even faster but he didnt have the constant pain and orbelisk feeding him.
He can only tank certain types of damage with the orbalisks, when he had his force lightning reflected, it was nearly fatal. This implies he can only tank force attacks for so long before they start to apply pressure and degrade his body further.
They only protect him from lighstaber strikes and force powers like force lightning which are still able to potentially kill him. When he fought with the armour he was far more wild and careless and focused more on breaking thru his opponent whereas bane without the armour was refined and calculated. With the armour he fought as tho he was a hammer and without, as if he was a master fencer. And given how zannah acc won their duel, that being thru sith sorcery she conjured up from the dark side nexus they fought on, the orbalisk likely wouldn't have done much to save him. So nah post-armour bane is the superior version
Agreed Darth Bane was not powerful because of the orbalisk alone
Star Wars Legends is peak fiction. Such incredibly unique, badass, and complex characters.
Such a well made video Seth. A lot of Star Wars scalers dont even have this solid of views on Star Wars.
Also you should have mentioned Knightfall/Mustafar Vader as he is directly scaled to Sidious equal by George. A collected and un emotional Anakin having full grasp of his emotions would have certainly beat Obi Wan but from what he just did and his literal psychotic actions hindered him in that fight, not to mention getting 0 rest in between storming the Jedi temple and constantly fighting, going planet to planet, etc. George said Anakin would be a match for Sidious at that point. Also Knightfall Vader>Any version of Suit Vader. Vader is one of the biggest things debated in the SW community. Canon Vader is op though different scaling.
Another thing you forgot to mention was Lord Nyax and how he scales. Pretty potent.
Sorry, bud, but according to Disney, Suit Vader is objectively stronger than Knightfall Vader. He's also still more than a match for Sidious due to several canon statements saying Vader is the strongest Sith in the Galaxy. Legends Suit Vader gets memed on by Palpatine and Knightfall Vader, though.
@@solitairemario Yes Canon I stated this in my comment did I not? Legends and Canon scalings are both different.
But yeah Canon Vader>Legends Vader
@TheGreat610 ROTJ Vader is no where near GM Luke. Also ROTJ Vader would not beat Sidious lmao thats exactly why he wanted to team up with his son, otherwise he could have all ready overthrown the Emperor. Huge misinformation you put up there.
Another reason ROTJ Vader is no where near GM Luke is because Vader couldnt even beat ROTJ Sidious not to mention Dark Empire Sidious who is far stronger which a DE Luke beat with harmony with Leia and GM Luke>>>DE Luke.
Knightfall Vader>ROTJ Vader per George Lucas and G-Canon>>>>Other forms of Canon back in the legends period.
Canon Vader however is a different story.
2:23 At first, I assumed they'd be higher but after thinking about it, they're TOO reliant on the force. Nihilus is fueled by his planet level hunger and if Sion was cut off from the force like Meetra was then he'd presumably collapse into pieces.
9:31 The only issue is that any class can become the Outlander and I doubt Vitiate/Valkorion would see someone like the Smuggler class as a threat so canonical, I assume the Outlander is one of the force sensitive classes.
All those times the smuggler charmed someone, he was actually using Mind Trick ;D
This was amazing. A couple things I have to say is that I think Nox has the potential to reach incredibly high levels of power because of her ability to absorb the power of spirits. Especially if she were to achieve some form of immortality and absorb spirits over centuries/millennia. I noticed you didn't put Darth Marr or Lord Scourge on here. Both of them were incredibly strong, being on the Dark Council and de-facto leader of the Empire and the previous Emperor's Wrath, respectively.
It'd be pretty cool to see a Jedi version of this at some point.
Also should be noted that on Rishi, Nox underwent Rakata rituals to make him/her live longer/possibly immortal. Combined with eating Sith spirits for breakfast and becoming if im correct the youngest/fastest rising Dark Council member ever, Nox is easily C/B tier for me. Nox was stated by Valkorion as being a master of the Dark Side and the only worthy host of his spirit after his death in the throne room. Sounds to me like Nox is up there with Vader.
I guess that Nox can be moreso the enemy sith lord player counterpart for the Jedi Knight/Battlemaster as opposed to the Emperor's Wrath. Generally though, I'd say almost all playable force characters in TOR are in the same-ish tier, though I'd still place those two at the top no doubt.
nox and the hero of thyton got easy overpowered by an amulet that exar kun easily overpowered before his prime
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 When was this?
Seth is legit gonna go down as one of the best power scalers of all time 🤙🏽
Not sure about that
@@James-pt2vk if madara isnt involved he is
good XD
My only issue with the scaling is using the idea that rule of two inherently makes the next gen of sith more and more powerful how were sith regularly beaten by their Jedi counter parts in legends who are repeatedly stated to be a diminishing order that far weaker than they used to be?
A stronger person can lose to their own over confidence. Anakin, who at the time was on par with sidious and Yoda or possibly stronger, lost to Obi-Wan because of his own reckless behavior. Obi-Wan was no joke either, but the ep 3 novel emphasizes Obi-Wan was on the defensive the entire fight and could barely keep up. The only thing saving him was he knew all of Anakin's moves. He had to bait Anakin into trying something stupid to win, and it worked.
It is actually just a logical outcome of the rule of two, ignoring that it is stated as canonical fact. If we ignore that it is canon and that your concern is therefor moot, remember that the force is a giant well of power that is confirmed in the original trilogy to become more powerful everytime a force user dies, and that the jedi are a massive organization in comparison to the sith. If a jedi and a sith of equal potential and skill fight, because there are only 2 siths the sith has access to enormously more force. If two armies perfectly equal in ability have 1million bullets, the one with 100k soldiers will only have 10 bukkets a piece where the army with 2k will have 500 bullet a piece, making the individuals within the 2k more deadly individually than the opposition. And because continuity confirms the force keeps both sides equal and balanced at all times, it is very clear that siths have an advantage over jedi individually. Also, stating the siths are regularly beaten is a misnomer. Their pawns were regularly beaten, normal darkside users were regularly beaten, and the plans were regularly thwarted. However, the sith were NOT regularly beaten, they where the ones defeating their enemies on the regular, at least in combat. As the video makes evident at the beginning, darkside users ARE NOT sith, and that is the key detail you seem to have missed. You may also have failed to consider that we only see the battles of the most important characters in the story and that the sith had to fight tons of background jedi before they ever made an appearance in the story we got to see, where a jedi defeating ANY sith is a huge deal.
On top of the Sith having more Access to the force like the comment above me mentioned it's also worth noting that the rule of two is a procedure specifically designed to make the Sith more powerful individual.
The Sith Master gets an apprentice that believes has potential to surpass him,puts him through hell to make him stronger,the apprentice eventually gets stronger than the Master,kills the Master and then gets an apprentice of his own.
As long as the chain isn't somehow broken that means the next sith will always be stronger than the previous one by default.
There is no possible way Savage Opress of all characters is above the Sith Triumvirate or Malgus. That doesn't make sense
@@Hiddenlotuslord that's true but then again Savage is not a product of the rule of two. He does have the potential to reach the level of Maul through who's stated to be one of the strongest and Deadliest Sith and defeated a supremely powerful Jedi in Qui-Gon
Hey, I really like this video but one thing to mention. At the start, you mention that you won’t be including ventress because she is more of a dark side assassin because of the rule of 2, and that’s reasonable, but wouldn’t the same rule apply for Maul and Savage? Maul was Sidious’ apprentice when Darth Plagueis was still the Dark Lord, and wasn’t killed until Palpatine became chancellor which was after Maul’s “death”. By the time Maul came back, Dooku was his apprentice. Same goes for Savage since there were only two. I understand the influence Maul or Savage had, but I wouldn’t consider him a sith for the reason you mentioned (Oh yeah, this also technically applies to Starkiller as well).
I think he means that Dooku didn’t train Ventress as a Sith Lord because of the rule of two, where as Maul was trained as a Sith Lord as the only apprentice at the time. Savage would’ve been trained fully by Maul as maul was no longer an apprentice and wasn’t following the rule of two, but I could understand why he could be counted out. The rule of two was simply a rule the Sith swore by to survive, not a necessity to achieve sithood
Is Revan stronger than Vader? That's a really hard question. Had Vader not been mutilated by Obi-wan, I'd say a big no - because then Vader would have been able to learn the more powerful abilities of the Dark Side. But because his suit was designed to be vulnerable to Force Lightning, I'd say the battle would be heavily situational.
Revan, whether Darth or post Darth, has a slew of abilities, as well as being a highly skilled tactician. Vader was very successful, but he was more "run it over until it breaks" than tactical. Vader would be vulnerable to the Lightning, but as we all know, that didn't stop him from pushing through it to kill Sidious.
Blade to blade, as much as I love Revan, I'd say Vader would likely overmatch him. Luke slapped a lightsaber against Vader's shoulder, and all it did was nick him - so his suit has some resistance to lightsabers. Plus, Vader had to invent new styles of lightsaber dueling just to overcome his cumbersome suit and artificial limbs. Revan could possibly have better reflexes, or out think Vader, but even that would only be temporary. Vader has a way of surprising his enemies.
I think a realistic duel between them would likely end with BOTH of them wounded. Revan would likely be killed, assuming he couldn't retreat and regroup.
Force to Force? Again, probably Vader, despite Revan's much broader understanding of the Force. Understanding is not the same as Command. Vader's command of the Force scared Jedi masters and Darth Sidious. Again, had he not been mutilated, Vader would have been unbelievably powerful. I'm fairly certain that even mutilated Vader would still be able to put Revan on the back foot in terms of Command of the Force.
Military tactics? Revan all the way. Revan has faced far more vicious and cunning enemies than Vader has - given that Vader was usually the one doing the hunting. Revan overcame battle scenarios that I honestly would have to look to someone like Thrawn to overcome. Revan, I personally think, is relatively on Thrawn's level of military command capability, and he would likely be able to ensnare Vader in traps that would deplete Vader's forces faster than Vader would be able to gain control of the battles.
Correct me if I'm wrong--wouldn't Vader stand completely unmatched by pretty much anyone if he wasn't mutilated by Obi-Wan? I was under the impression that he would've been pretty much limitless in force power, I know he would grow significantly more powerful than Sidious since Sidious blatantly told that to Yoda, I just think that overall, if Vader were to not be beaten by Obi-Wan, there would be close to no one who would stand a chance, although I think that if both Luke and Leia were in their "prime" they could stand a chance in a 2v1 against prime Vader and possibly even win, but I don't really have the knowledge to make such a claim with certainty so take that with a grain of salt.
@@ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh2401 yes, since Anakin is the chosen one he had basically unlimited potential. But that was before mustafar
It's always hard to establish Revan's power. Since he went from Jedi, to Sith then almost a grey area. But we can also look at what Kreia said about what it felt like looking at Revan. She said it was like looking into the heart of the force. And that was before he unlocked his most powerful self. Revan's dark half caused the empire and republic to join forces to beat him too. I think this video missed out on a lot of those facts. You'd have to compile every single bit of lore and cross examine them to establish power lines. Fear is a powerful thing Vader had but if you think it was a bunch of exiled Jedi and regular people who had no idea what the force was. Obviously the suit was Vader's limiting factor but I think the conflict within himself because of Padme and then Luke was his greatest weakness. Sure, he turned the anger from Padme's death into a strength but I feel it would have been a greater strength if she lived. Like I said though, lots of information you'd have to cross examine.
@@gabrielmora5092 anakin would be equal to if not slightly more powerful than legends luke since they supposedly had the same potential
DARTH Revan? No......Revan from his novel? Probably
Dragon Ball Fans: Kid Buu vs Buuhan is the most contentious debate
Star Wars Fans: hold my beer
Really people fought over kid buu vs buuhan? Buuhan would slap him. Kid buu lost to a fucked up goku/vegetable.
@@YahMum69 yeah because multiple sources state that kid buu is the strongest version
@@vulxh And here we go again. I'm 90% sure that the statements were that he was at his most dangerous as kid Buu, not his strongest. If kid Buu was the strongest version, SSJ3 Goku would have gotten slapped.
@@desolatorstorm142 the only reason Goku didn't get "slapped" is because Kid Buu wasn't trying hard
Goku vs Superman: that’s cute
this is very well researched and interesting and for the most part well ranked,
However, ranking and claiming Zannah, Maul, Starkiller and Savange > Revan , Malak, Bane , and Malgus, is absurd.
Considering the force abilities , feats and only Maul and starkiller could give malak a fair fight. Nihilus deserves to be a bit higher up.
Even Sion is at the bottom of the list, when he would just hack Maul and Oppress into pieces simply due to the fact that he can't die. Sion may have only been an average Force user and an average duelist, but immortality is hella convenient against the likes of Maul and Savage, or even powerful ones like Dooku.
@@KhukuriGod sion had to be convinced to let go of life. Palpatine, and Luke could beat him cut him down sure but he would rise and they will get tired and be killed eventually. Sion master what anakin was looking for immortality. I doubt he wanted his wife to end up looking like sion tho lol
@@2gunzup07 Well, Legends Luke and Palpatine could just permanently imprison Sion. Luke can literally move black holes, he could throw Sion into a black hole.
@@ChromedDomes he still wouldn't die but legends Luke is a monster and palpatine
Zannah is > Bane, tho. She won their fight.
Great video dude! I love that you acknowledged the ambiguity of a lot of the lore, especially since a lot of Legends material contradicts other Legends material. I'm surprised you never mentioned Starkiller's feat of ripping an ISD out of orbit lol
The rule of two was *not* a perfect ascension of power, they had set backs from Darth Gravid caused by sabotaging the master holocron and destroying many treasures and artifacts . died in his sleep meaning his apprentice was never challenged to kill him and even Darth Sidious killed his own master in his sleep therefore the major purpose of the Rule of Two itself (testing master and apprentice by making sure they are both around their peak and the next apprentice having more potential than the last) was effectively unmined after Zannah and Cognus, also Maul was not trained to be a true successor to Darth Sidious he was only meant to be a tool/assassin (like a more stealthy version of the role Darth Vader himself would have)
There's a bit about this to unpack.
While Darth Gravid did set the Sith back, they eventually recovered a great deal of the lore he destroyed.
Additionally his apprentice Darth Gean did succeed in surpassing him because she killed him in a direct confrontation and won their duel albeit with significant injuries.
While Gravid did destroy almost half of the Sith's collected lore, the Telos Holocron (what I assume you mean by the Master Holocron) was left relatively untouched. It was not recovered until long after Gravid had already died and was confirmed to contain teachings from Ajunta Pall, Revan, Naga Sadow, and Bane.
With Sidious did not rest the title of Dark Lord from his master, he did surpass him in strength.
What is important to note is that Plagueis wanted to get rid of the Rule of Two and naively taught Sidious everything he knew without hesitation.
Sidious had all of Plagueis' knowledge available to him the only reason he opted to get him drunk and kill him in his sleep is because Plagueis was still incredibly dangerous as a duelist.
However it wasent as simple as killing him in his sleep, he tricked Plagueis into getting drunk and dropping his guard.
Zanna and Cognus did not undermine the Rule of Two. Where are you getting this from?
@@AbsurdFalcon I was saying Cogness and Zannah were the last ones known to have *fully* followed the rule of two by the time of the Novel Darth Plagueis. I am still saying although based on feats Sdious may very well have been stronger than Plagueis (Jensaari One believes based on available info Plagueis himself would lose to Yoda in a straight duel) we don't 100% know if in a fair fight who would win (Plagueis himself ironically is kind of a Tobirama like character in terms of feats and even Plagueis has more than Tobirama lol). The rule itself is still flawed as a means of measuring scaling because it was not followed as perfectly as intended Darth Bane meant for shit like the examples I mentioned *not* to happen as they undermined the principles of "only the strong will rule" thus in a way the rule itself is indeed a flawed way of use as an example even *if* Sidious himself is indeed one of the most powerful force users of all time
Seth uploading 2 days in a row? Let's goooo!
Honestly would love “strongest Star Wars characters” vid. Love ur content!👌🏾
This would be a sweet video.
If including legends and non-canon star wars things, Abeloth is the strongest in the verse. Dark Dimension Vader being probably the second strongest
Tilotny: allow me to introduce myself
Full power Anakin/Vader is the strongest. He was destined to replace the Father, a God. Also, you shouldn't put canon and legends together...
Really respectable putting the music used when Lukes rage overcomes him against Vader, great video as always
I love starwars so seeing you post sw content always gives me a smile
Could argue that bane (who was extremely weak) let Zannah beat to practice essence transfer and continue the rule of 2. He also performed the thought bomb which I think surpasses maul.
Yeah Bane is my favorite star wars character and I think you can definitely make the argument that he actually won his duel with Zannah. I can't see at all how he's lower on the tier list than Maul and Savage though. I can't see any way that he'd ever lose to both let alone either of them in a fight.
@@darkone9172 I totally agree with you! The bane books are my favorite, the plageous books are up there too
A few Sith that got ranked about Bane would lose to him, Maul and Savage being two, and Dooku loses to Bane quickly
@@KumaoftheForest I agree, Bane could beat Dooku easily and he could beat both Maul and Savage at once.
Bane didn't perform the thought bomb, he tricked Kaan into doing it.
“This video will not be using Disney canon”
BASED
The fact he included The Old Republic MMO (even if for a small section) got me all tingly🥴🥴
Great video, I agree with most of your decisions, I would put nihilus a smidge higher than last maybe 2nd or 3rd last but still good, you also forgot Tulak Hord, imo I would put him either A or S tier considering he:
1. mastered sith socery
2. killed roughly about 3000 jedi
3. pulled a ship 9 times the size of a football field out of orbit
4. earned the titles "Lord of hate" and "Gathering darkness" due to his ability to absorb force energy
5. Only two sith have ever made it in and out of his tomb alive that being revan (took tulaks helmet) and Darth Maar (took his lightsaber)
More than 2
Both the emperors wrath and nox 'aka the two with the potential to be the outlander' also had trials in his tomb though they never directly visited his corpse like revan or marr
So happy your making more Star Wars content
The concept of "the strongest Sith" falls apart when the movies roll around.
Darth Sidious killed his own master in his sleep, because his master was too powerful for him to beat otherwise.
Darth Sidious also choose Darth Maul as an alternative plan to beat his master because between him and Maul, he believed he could win.
However, Sidious choose every single apprentice he had to be weaker than him specifically because he did not want to abide by the rule of two, he never wanted to be beaten.
So all of the apprentices of Sidious are drastically weaker than previous Sith.
When sith apprentices kill their master, their power gets transferred to their apprentice. So no it doesn’t matter
The guys first comment is correct. The force remains in balance with equal power in the dark and light. So with the rule of two, the two sith obtain all the power potential that a thousand sith would have. Potential being key word there. That's why rule of two existed. Every generation would be more powerful because they obtained more potential during their lifetime and learned more then that gets passed down and the next sith is inherently stronger than the previous sith. Sidious chose anakin because "vader will become more powerful than both of us" said to Yoda. Anakin had the most potential of any force user in existence, so had he not been amputated and burnt he would have far surpassed sidious' both power and knowledge because he would only kill sidious when he learned everything he could from him, just like how sidious killed plaeguis when he no longer had anything to learn from him.
When sidious killed plaugeus (however the fuck you spell it) the dark side power that was split between them (because of balance, as light side gets stronger the dark side gets stronger and vice versa) was then all concentrated into sidious. Although with dark side you can unbalance the force because part of the dark side is bending the force to your will. Plaeguis tried to bend the force to his will when trying to use midichlorians to create life. The force responded by saying no and doing just that by itself. But because they bend the force to their will they are able to unbalance the force and force more power into the dark side and weaken the light side. That's what unbalanced means, the power scale is tipping towards the dark because of manipulating the force
While light side users don't force the force they allow the force to guide them and bestow itself upon them.
When plaeguis and sidious is alive, let's say 60% of the available dark side power is in plaeguis, while 40% is in sidious. Meanwhile the 100% of light side force power is split between all the jedi, not split evenly obviously. But when sidious kills plaeguis that 60% does not disappear, because if it disappeared then the dark side would only be 40% as powerful, and there would not be balance because light side would be 100% while dark is 40%, balance is both are 100%. Therefore since sidious is the only real sith at the time, he inherents 100% of that dark side power potential. Thats the easiest way I can explain it. Once sidious turned anakin and vader turned to dark side, the force was unbalanced, dark side had say 120% while light size had 80%. Why the dark side was able to steal that 20% from the light, I can't exactly say, I think it's because anakin, which I'll explain later. But even if I'm wrong about anakin being the why that's still the what of what happened. Now 20% is just a number I threw out. All this also explains how rey is able to defeat sidious in the latest movie. Sidious is 100% of all the sith dark side power that was ever in existence because he's the only true sith at the time, he even says that in the movie. But rey, being the only true light side at the time, is 100% of all jedi light side power that had ever been in existence as well, she also says that in the movie. Therefore 100% of light beats 100% of dark. Personally I like to think because anakin is the chosen one, and because he was created by the force itself, his presence on either side is what actually unbalances the force. When he goes dark, dark gets more than 100%, when anakin goes light, light gets more than 100%, that's why rey wins, because at the time, anakin had been redeemed and turned back to light side, therefore light side is more than the dark side, therefore rey wins, and anakin remains the chosen one and the catalyst for sidious' defeat and still remains the chosen one who is prophesied to destroy the sith because without him on the light side, the light side cannot overcome the natural balance of the force. Anakin birth being an unnatural birth and an unnatural amount of force potential caused by the light side of the force is the reason for the unnatural tilt In the balance of power between light and dark and why rey won.
Plus George Lucas stated that the Senate is the most powerful Sith ever.
I’m gonna add my personal take here and say the SWTOR crew you placed below Bane would be higher. Even disregarding expansions, from the base class stories, Nox is on the Dark Council, which constitute the 12 strongest of the time, and the Wrath is of comparable power to the council. Now, going only into Shadow of Revan and not going into Outlander saga material, Marr is shown to be extraordinarily powerful, most likely the strongest of them all, and both Wrath and Nox would be comparable to him. I’d argue those three and Marr as the new F tier, with Bane and Maul at E, and the rule of two Sith before Maul all stay in the same grouping and Savage dropping with them. I’m 50/50 on if SWTOR gang or Bane/Maul are stronger just due to Outlander saga and those scalings to Vitiate/Valkorian, but I’d definitely consider all those above previous rule of two before Plagieus/Sidious at the very best Bane tier, considering his peak was far beyond where he was beaten.
Really good video I would pull back a little on the Rule of two where every apprentice being stronger then the previous master. In the Plagueis novel by James Luceno it is stated that one of the sith following the rule of two try to combine light side and dark side and went insane and destroyed nearly all of their work and had to be put down by their young apprentice while he was crazy.
I think the way certain sith powers and abilities work along with circumstances such as Plagueis killing Teneberous while he wasn't paying attention or Sidiois killing Plagueis in his drunken sleep. To say that the Rule of 2 also made the stronger sith survive and get stronger and stronger each generation. Knowing the sith alot of the time the student would try to kill the master when the master was at a complete disadvantage.
This list is great and I basically 100% agree. Only one's I'd move are Revan and Nihilus but you touched on both of those really well. Awesome vid and thanks for all the reach you prob did for this.
His only scaling revan as a sith
The sith lords that came after Darth Bane probably inherit the power of the darth side that was focused because of the rule of 2, but it doesn't necessarily mean it stacked.
I will say this to help with Revan placement. After they became a Jedi again (and thus mastering all aspects of the force) he is technically no longer a Sith at that point, therefore his transcended potential doesn't have to be gauged on the list.
Even as a sith he was pretty darn op, didn't it took the two side to join force just to beat him?
@@angerskarin9222 yep, It took getting blown up in his command deck by Malak's double cross just to knock him out.
Gotta say I’m a little underwhelmed. Aside from the Sith Triumphantive and Maul/Savage. You might as well rename the list: Here’s all the Sith in chronological order.
I get malak placement, but I truly do believe Revan was very underrated here. We’re talking about one of the greatest lightsaber dualists to ever exist. He won the mandalorian war and would take on multiple Jedi masters at once in a dual
Nihlus is like a walking superweapon.
In short, he's a motile Death Star with a lightsaber and voice.
@@rsxmaster he doesnt "destroy" planets
@@micejoint132 you can argue vitiate does tho
I LOVE Star wars power scaling, specially with ancient Siths.
The only one that feels off for me in this one is Maul being more powerful than the Ancients like Exar Kun, because i dont think Palpatine considered him a true apprentice and had more of a relation like Dooku and Ventress.
"This was a NO-VISE Bane." -Seth The Programmer, 2021
It's a crime against humanity not to put Revan at least in Class B.
🤡
Now, it might be something to take into consideration that Vitiate was going to absorb all life in the entire galaxy. No other Sith on the entire list I believe would have ever even attempted to do such, which in my mind, puts Vitiate in S tier, honestly.
And you forgot about Tulak Hord, not to mention that Savage is placed stupidly high on the list because he could POTENTIALLY become as powerful as Maul.
And with that mindset, then Vitiate would dominate the list, since he could potentially have succeeded in draining the galaxy for life, something that would make him a literal God.
Nuhilis was also going to do that as well.
Yeah everybody forgets about Tulak Hord.
It is very sad because he is a very strong Sith Lord that deserves recognition.
@@flukemarm3625 Most powerful duelist of his time. Yes, he is pretty flippin dope.
@@TheTrytix He also had amazing force ability.He once pulled a Hammerhead Cruiser down from orbit. Very few Sith Lords or even Jedi for that matter have ever gotten close to that level of raw power. And nobody even mentions him!
You say savage shouldn't be that high on the list because of "potential", which I agree. But your argument for Vitiate is also derived from a hypothetical point of "it might have happened"
The one thing you seem to forget about Revan, though, is that one of his halves that he hadn't accepted into the force yet-- Needed grandmaster Satele Shan, Darth Marr, potentially the outlander/jedi knight who beat the voice of the emperor/the emperor's wrath or Noxus, Theron Shan, Lana Beniko, Bowdaar all combined to actually beat him down. So it's reasonable to say that in the earlier storypoints Revan may have actually been seriously weakened after getting out of his imprisonment, only to either grow stronger as he'd actually passed into the force. OR generally only grew at his full strength with his remaining spirit of vengeance.
nice pfp
Not to mention he had so much dark potential even the entire sith and jedi ganged up on him, to have both sides TEAM UP just for one guy
@@ShollieRose the plot made it seem like they ganged up on him solely because of him resurrecting the sith lord, but it totally ignored the fact that revan was single handedly taking down the empire and the republic.
Thats because revan reborn is a separate entity from Darth Revan when scaling SITH
Nox/Emperor’s Wrath/Outlander should DEFS be ranked higher, same with malgus. The outlander has killed/defeated vitiate/Valkorian like…3 or 4 times now. And Malgus was a MONSTER on a similar playing field to Vader. Dude was a freak of nature, nothing could kill him.
Technically I'd put Vader as the strongest considering he came back to the light. Sure it was with Luke's help, but I think beating the dark side while consumed in it is very difficult. Almost impossible.
That’s true, even revan needed a mind wipe to start as a Jedi again
"Amazing. Every word you just said was wrong" Luke Skywalker. In all seriousness I disagree with some of your ranking but I also agree with the fact that ranking sith lords power is mostly subjective and thus impossible to be universally "correct." While I disagree I love your video and happy that it continues an interesting Star Wars conversation.