Timestamps 0:00 Introduction 1:00 Pre-Heresy Design Breakdown 3:20 Pre-Heresy Design Analysis 7:42 Pre-Heresy Design vs Lore 11:23 Pre-Heresy Art 13:05 Pre-Heresy Final Notes 14:54 Post Heresy Design Breakdown 20:21 Post Heresy Design Analysis 26:59 Post Heresy Design vs Lore 31:49 Post Heresy Art 36:31 Post Heresy Final Notes 37:36 Redesign 43:18 Outro 43:50 Post Credit Announcement
The "little dots" are "molecular bonding studs" in the lore. If i remember correctly these start appearing with the mark 5 power armour at the time of the horus heresy, since the need for extra armor came with the fact that space marines started to face their own powerful guns, really good for armor penetration. They are supposed to be some makeshift last minute armor improvement. Since the legions turning traitors caused some havoc in the imperium ressource lines, this also can explain the skulls and other decorative elements, as well as the differents looks of the legions since chapters had to forge their own customs gear due to the lack of supplies.
I know this but that's why we had that bit at the start otherwise half of the video is going to explaining things. Plus this way Sunny can focus on the design part - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnowSo true, lore is way too dense, i understand perfectly skipping some parts of it. It was more in case someone was curious of how this silly design came to exist. Good video non the less, i like the exchange between the two of you, there is so many content creators out there alone in front of their cameras. A bit of change is nice sometimes
@@elgodeorn5146 The lore can be super dense and sometimes super dense if you catch my drift... but! It can be very fun. Glad you liked it, I hope you check out the other two that are up already ☺
Elgodeorn Thank you very much for your kind words on how we deliver these videos it makes us feel like we are on the right path with our content creation style! But I also liked learning about the bobbles from you, now I finally know because it did seem very decorative ~Sunny
I've also thought that Slaanesh's aspect as a god of excess could be expanded more. Of course, with gluttony, an element of that is present with Nurgle (but I've got ideas about converting greater daemons that play on this theme, so for instance a feminine Kali style Bloordthirster, which would look kinda Slaaneshy et cetera) but that could be a way of showing how Chaos melds and twists out of the same source. Excess is a tricky thing to represent on a model becuase it has to have a look and a gaming role - a Hellraiser style would work well there, but GW already used that a bit with the Dark Eldar, although they've moved away from that over the years I would say.
I guess a lot of those new greater demon models with the fans I forgot their exact name could be very Kali inspired in a way... Hmmm that could be a great conversion... But I mean Dark Eldar and Slannesh crossing over isn't really that out there is it? I mean technically who is responsible - Cal
In general, on the tabletop -and even the lore to a certain extent - the chaos gods are handled really poorly in 40k. Unlike Fantasy and AoS, all chaos stuff is almost entirely squeezed through the narrow lens of "space marine", and even then it's filtered down to one or two of the more superficial and overt aspects of a given god. This isn't so much a problem for the simpler gods, like Khorne or Nurgle (to a lesser extent), but it absolutely cripples the potential of Tzeentch and Slaanesh.
Slannesh is very poorly conveyed in the models, most aspects of slannesh are supposed to be appealing from a distance to lure you in before you notice the corruption. The only two characters I feel actually represent this are Azazel from Total War Warhammer 3 and Sigvald the Magnificent. Both appear attractive from afar, Azazel looking like an angel or Greek god, and Sigvald appearing like this glorious golden warrior, yet are corrupted once you are to close to escape, Azazels claw and Sigvalds narcissism.
I LOVED this. I've been playing since the game came out in 1987, and built a slaanesh army before there were noise marines. The idea of having specialist troops based on the many senses is so....fundamental...I don't know how I didn't think of it. It's GREAT!
I am really glad to hear someone from the old school hear what we suggest and then go actually that's not to bad, because usually the old school players are the hardest to convince so maybe we are doing something right? - Cal
When it seems "self-evident after the fact", you know you're onto something big. Did you say you guys had STLs of those proposed troops from the artwork in the video?@@WhatareyouPaintingnow
@@abcdodd We have STLs of our own game and you get them by becoming an elite WAYPN channel member right now, the ones at 44:08 making those sorts of troops could get us into trouble...
Thanks so much Rory. Well we would have loved to make some of them but we were flat out being unwell and having such a long episode for this week! - Cal
regarding the chest aquila, the emperor's children were the only legion allowed to feature it on their armour so you won't have seen it on any other legions' armour. regarding the metallic look of the paint jobs, that's just a design flourish expressed by some artists, it's not that commonly represented on the miniatures themselves. also, the iii legion weren't the first to fall to chaos, that was the word bearers who fell to chaos undivided as a result of erebus' machinations. as far as the colour theory goes, you're spot on i think. black & pink is known to be a sensual/sexual colour combination. funny you mentioned the emperor's children not having enough options, they're heavily rumoured to be getting a codex soon so they'll get new units if that happens. i mean, them just having noise marines as unique unit type does fit with the theme of the other monogod traiter legions - the thousand sons have rubric marines, the death guard have plague marines, and the world eaters have berserkers - but the world eaters got the eightbound as well in their last codex so maybe gw are dispensing with that one-unique-unit-per-legion ethos. i hope so because i, like you, think it'd be fun to expand their rosters a bit
Before fulgrim fully fell to chaos he had an awkward interaction with a regular human sculptor where the primarch wanted feedback on his sculptures, and the young man told fulgrim to his face he made art without heart, so perfect it lacked soul. And fulgrim didn’t want the truth he wanted gracious platitudes. I think your color psychology matches that whole debacle perfectly
Oh yeah I remember that bit... man the Fulgrim book was just like... stop... dude no... what... no please come on- could you just... man... okay this is happening - Cal
I didn't know that! Thanks for sharing, part of the way these design vs Lore videos are structured they are styled like reaction videos so I can't have prior knowledge to what I give my analysis on (which is the whole premise of course) so it's nice to hear comments that share bits and pieces for me to read after the fact~Sunny
Well to be fair. He didn’t say it like that. He said it was too perfect and didn’t really explain what he meant by that. So he basically just told Fulgrim his sculpture was shit because it was „too good“ and left it at that. But the scene still characterized Fulgrim very well. Though I think a bit differently than you say here
Oh that is a great idea, i was thinking expanding on the perfectionist thing with more duelist style units. But units that focus on seeing, tasteing and touching just ups the creep facter.
I do have to agree with you on upping the creep factor I think it's because when we did the design analysis of the post heresy EC they seemed to stray from perfectionism because they are very haphazard and also creepy in some of the art so followed their line of thinking ~Sunny
I would like to say "bravo" to Sunny (sorry if mispelled). I am impressed about her reading of The Emperor's Children. I went to art school and was taught this kind of thing and I know an awesome interpretation when I see one.
Don't worry about spelling we have some who still say Sonny instead ha ha. Sunny is correct but we're way more happy to have nice comments than correct spelling going to show it to Sunny now - Cal
Thank you so much! I like seeing the comments from some of the watchers who are graphic designers or had an art background in general it feels relatable for me to talk about art school days haha. Yes I too had to do art analysis in college and I am glad that I got a good analysis down I am trying to improve on that because I feel for the dark angels one I could have done a better job and I'm glad my brain worked for this video and I had words to give a good analysis ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I watched the Dark Angels video as well and I think you did a great job. I appreciate everything you have to say and I look forward to future videos. I had to change careers away from art due to income issues (go figure) and 40k is the vessel for my creativity these days. I've spent the past year creating my Irish space marine chapter and I have thought a lot about what color communicates. Great to have some fellow art aficionados in the hobby with me! Thanks again.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I appreciate it, Cal. I enjoy the channel very much and I look forward to seeing more. It's a great direction and very helpful to the community to think more about these concepts.
@@RSBurgener I appricate that we are attracting audience members like you, people who not only enjoy what we are doing but engaging. I hope that some our other straight hobby/art stuff like the in-depth colour theory will help with the colour communication knowledge and I hope we keep seeing you in the comment sections in the future! - Cal
The origin of the EC being from noble families on Terra finally explains their draw to excess for me. Privilege can come with taking things for granted, and taking things for granted is how you fall into excess, deceit, and manipulation. Many had power as children over servants. Even if given as young teenagers, there is no influence that can undo that. If they lose, they take it as a personal sleight. Their excess isn't just the common debauchery tropes they're given, but a deep desire to obtain what they want. Lucius comes to mind.
And your forgetting one vital part of the slighted part which ties it all in a neat little bow. Most of them came from defeated noble houses in order to gain favour with the Emperor so they wouldn't lose their positions - Cal
The last group could be The Numbed, having practically burnt out their nerves despite Astartes physiology, granting them Feel No Pain. They could also gain First Strike when the unit is below 50%, because they've all taken damage, and they're getting stoked! This, and their physical design would help distinguish them from Plague Marines.
I hope GW people watch this as you've put together some great points and opinions on where this legion could go lore wise and model range wise. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if some insider at GW steals your ideas for their PowerPoint. To Add My Hot Take: The lore has always suggested that Slaanesh is the baby brother Chaos God and has potential to overpower the other Gods of chaos. Using this as motive, when Slaanesh makes his/her/it's move to explode on the scene with a newly empowered champion force (EC's). With a revamped range of troops/codex. Fulgrim may be locked into a slithering form of Gorro already but that doesn't mean the rest of his legion (full of independents) would follow suite design wise.
It would be nice to think some of the GW people watch but I hope they don't think we are ragging on them. And we gave those ideas freely so no one would be stealing. A new Emperor's Children would be great, I hope it comes this year - Cal
As a teenager I had a random 40K book that followed the story of a Chaos Marine playing Chaos against itself. Anyhow during a battle involving some Emporers Children (EC) an EC Dreadnought exposed their sarcophagus to the elements so that it could feel sensation again. I think that could be a potentially awesome redesign of a Chaos Dreadnought. One where the broken body of the space marine could be exposed in a hiendonist way.
My rection to seeing this went from "oh awesome! WAYPN has a new design vs lore video!" to "oh I wasn't expecting it to be Emperor's Children" to "...uhh I wonder if Sunny is going to be comfortable explaining to everyone on YT about exactly what she notices in the design." Well played though. This was a lot of fun!
Yes, I laughed many times at Sunny noticing many things... It was a fun episode to do I think you can really hear it in the post heresy part... we went far longer than we should have but we were just really enjoying it - Cal
Well as you can see Sir Speaktome I was very comfy with pointing out the naughty things but I only hope that I have managed to keep my language PG 😛 ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Lol Yep you not only guessed the lore spot on, your professionalism also made it through the video completely unscathed. Bravo, Sunny!
As a note on how the Eldar fell, there’s actually quite a bit outside of murder, art and sex. Something which I feel often gets glossed over is that many of the pleasure cults dedicated themselves to esoteric knowledge. They were maddeningly obsessive about their chosen disciplines, pursuing knowledge at any cost. You can see a bit of the Haemonculi from the Drukhari with the ideas of twisted science. It’s also said that they explored sensory and emotional experience in just about every possible way. I imagine there being those who would inflict horrible things upon themselves in the name of feeling ever greater sensation. Indolence, feasting and narcotics are all explicitly named elements in their fall. edit: I realize I have, in effect, just said “um, ackshually.” My sincerest apologies. I really love the Eldar and wanted to share some cool stuff about them. Also, I didn’t even talk about the design ideas!!! I will do so in another comment under this one.
Really enjoy the idea of the many-eyed unit; the notion of Emperor's Children covered in eyes has crossed my mind before. I think the Gluttons would be cooler if the focus was more upon mouths and tongues rather than obesity. With the lore of Astartes being able to recall memories of individuals they eat, their cannibalistic frenzies could be a way of them not only delighting in delectable flesh, but also accruing 'experiences.' One of the difficulties I find with Emperor's Children design is that they are so different between their pre-heresy and post-heresy designs. For the Traitor Marines I like to imagine how far their mightiest have fallen. For the Phoenix Guard Terminators I have a design idea of them having tanks containing all manner of drugs to push their performance ever closer to perfection; their loyalty to their wards may be seen as a part of their quest for perfection or may have become secondary to the pursuit of excellence.
Its all G I can see you are sincere in your response, your not trying to talk down to us just talk about stuff... this is a bit of the problem... so like we said at the start we ignore a bit of the deep lore because... people don't get that far. Design as she said is what is read on the surface rather than what is read deeply. And Games-Workshop/Warhammer sell much more the idea of sex, drugs and rock and roll being the end of the Eldar, rather than the more eldritch horror parts. I think its cool... but I think Exodites is the most copyrightable most interesting idea I have seen since Dinotopia but still they haven't released models for them or even rules! So, what I have to say doesn't count for a lot, a lot of the time. Thank you so much for your passion - Cal
I think you could do the drug frenzy guys with a whole lot of beakers and jugs and stuff on the back of the terminators like those Skaven guys... I can't remember the name off the top or like the genestealer cult ones, guys with lots of vials you get the idea. And just have the one head which is bare basically having their eyes popping out of their head... that could be cool. I think the reason why we wanted warped and grotesques is to make it horrific rather than another sexy version of the thing like oh... where are those hand tounges going and so on just something you look at and go... yuck Once again thanks for the passionate comments! - Cal
If I can add a bit of lore content : - You're not wrong about the nobles having to give their child for this legion, but they got their name from the emperor after saving his life. - The legion became plagued and only a few hundred of them survived, so they became really, REALLY obsessed with perfection because they did not have the numbers to keep up with other legions but their name put a lot of expectations on them. I think "perfection" is the best one word description for the pre-heresy legion.
Love the video, I hope to see more of this kind of content in the future, I 100% agree with the redesign ideas as I think with the emperor children model range, they lack variety as they just seem to stick to one notion/ concept without explorer what else could be done. Once again great video.
I think the different variations of them were very fun to explore as we were doing the design analysis, I would say because of how creative their design is I got very excited and would have to agree that the creativity of their design could have been explored further by GW ~Sunny
Honestly you guys really nailed how Slaneesh is more Execessive Sensation than just Rock and Roll Orgies (tho that too). And GW has definitely leaned more on the former as inspiration for some models, the first one to come to mind is one of a Daemonette playing a harp made of the muscles coming off the back of some poor soul. So they've shown that they're capable of taking Slaneesh in more interesting directions.
The modern Emperor's Children are to stimulate all of the senses. Not only physically, but even visually; followers of Slaanesh tend to lean toward purples and pinks for fleshtone. For armor, they tend to use colors that are striking, beautiful, and/or gaudy to attack one's sense of vision; both beautiful, yet unsettling! So some warbands post-heresy can use one or more colors of "Purple, pink and black; various other pastels."
Thank you so much for this comment. I am really glad to see people connecting with them because obviously with our schedule we can't make all of these models physically but we can try and flesh them out a little, hope you enjoy the rest of the series - Cal
I think an interesting idea for you guys to include would be a "corporate safe" redesign section. BUT also have a complete Lore wide redesign with no limits. That would make it fun. Something for the corporate gray sludge. And something for us homebrew make it at home guys.
Totally get what you are saying but, it wouldn't make us very interesting. There are a lot of people out there 'raging against the machine'. The reason I think people appreciate some of our redesigns is we do it with in the constraint of what a cooperate brief would look like. But once we got to the tenth we have considered doing one where we physically do the redesigns for the minis, but we will burn that bridge when we get to it - Cal
Amazing breakdown however I have a few points related to the redesign that I would like to discuss The units having their themes related to the 5 senses is a great idea that is already lore friendly in how the ECs are portrayed, as addicts to sensations, going to extremes to feel more and more, however the ones presented are missing or going in a different way, IMO incorporating more of the cenobite feel and the willingly use combat drugs and xenos organs even pre-fall to enhance themselves could play a bigger role. The Scouts one may step to closely to how Tzeench mutations manifest, Slaanesh does grant gifts to the sight of their followers, the black eyes on the amazing art piece are one of those examples, and they could represent enhanced sight, and the ability to see the whole spectrum of light, or even see trough the warp itself. The models may have those 4 to 8 scorpion-like eyes around their heads and carry long ranged weapons and signify the pursue to the perfect shot, and to have perfect aim, could also have intricate armor to show a liking to art, how profane or beautifull is up to interpretation. For the smell, in lore, some of the signs of a Slaanesh related event is the strong perfumes, both amazingly pleasant and disgusting, that and also probably a drug in practice, the marines related to this sense may enter the field carrying incenses or vials, or having special organs to disperse that stuff to enhance their allies and harm their foes, a model represented with gills or smoke coming fron their bodies may do the trick, they would be related to how they use drugs to enhance themselves to achieve perfection for the touch, your interpretation is amazing and goes hand and hand as some ECs are portrayed in books, again, the cenobite feel, there is one in 30k that keeps their tongue nailed to their armor, so he can pull it every time he moves, and other that keeps a skinned part of his body constantly exposed, having some mutation or surgery that exposes nerves on top of their armor could be a plausible thing also, they would be melee specialists, and act eager to feel the pain of being shot and cut. for the feeling of taste is where I would diverge the most, a morbidly obese marine would be to close to how the bloated nurgle marines are portrayed, instead I would propose the opposite, ghoulish and extremely thin marines, more closely resembling the more classic wendigo legends, close to having a androgynous body, instead of the square of beef that marines normally are, cannibalistic and with some mutated jaw or tongue to represent that urge to eat, preferably related to scorpions and snakes (i can imagine they dislocating their jaws to eat just like snakes do) as a nod to one of the animals often related to Slaanesh, as they feel constantly famished and/or eager to taste different beings
Well we mixed both taste and smell together because they are actually the same sense, the reason we didn't go thin as you suggested is because that would be adding two units that are extremely thin which design wise would be very similar. But you could use the smell/perfume idea rule wise with them having some sort of difficulty to hit? Scouts idea sounds interesting but its hard to visualise But all of these sound very interesting -Cal
I do like the way you have considered the perfectionism and mutations that would allow them to do so and I like seeing your interpretation or refinement of the concept we presented! ~Sunny
With the scouts, I could absolutely see their power armour growing an eye that is similar to Horus' "Eye of Terra". Would be a neat nod to the grandfather of treason. Marines with huge licking tongues, extruding from their masks, for taste would be cool simply because I think that looks cool as hell :P. I love the Venom look. The bumps on the old armour has been explained as a gap filler that marines used to use when holes were shot or stabbed into their armour from battle. Having that same look with taste buds would be thematic and unique for these corrupted souls. Obviously the noise marines need to come back, for sound! They could even use string instruments in the shape of the Slaanesh symbol. For smell they could have pheromone sirens, luring in enemies to their horrid clutching grasp. Beautiful flowers and perfumes on the front of the models and horrid gaping voids, like noses, that their prey will be stuffed into once lured close enough. Just some thoughts that came to mind whilst watching your vid. Loved the interesting break down here guys. Thanks!
First time viewing the channel. Absolutely loved this breakdown, was really impressed how much lore was teased out of the design before getting to the lore discussion. Love the redesign notions of opening up the number of post heresy/40k units. Has me thinking of finding new ways to convert models for the army and possible what the unit rules could be in a friendly game. As there isn't an official line for Emperor's Children like there is with Black Legion, Thousand Sons, or Plague Marines I think the move to other sensation excess fits the lore and design criteria for models if it were marketed properly. Alternatively, it could be made just so over the top that it circles back to being almost caricature of the pre-heresy design. As for sales I think you'd need to find a way to balance the cultural gender language and sexualization of pinks and purples with the "Rococo-Punk Rock/Cyberpunk dystopia" grotesques even with the new sense based troops. Great Video.
Thank you so much, we try and focus on hobby, painting and design more than the lore part as you saw at the start of the video. I am really glad to hear it got your creative juices flowing! But you are wrong about one things... "... there isn't an official line for Emperor's Children..." YET! The answer is yet! Don't give up hope, I have heard rumours one will be coming soon so hopefully you will get some new models to hobby with soon...ish. I hope. Thank you again for the compliments we try really hard to make the best content we can - Cal
Thank you very much for your comment I am glad we made a good impression on you! It does seem people have been enjoying this series but hearing you say that its got your creative juices flowing made me feel good because it shows that the video was a value add. Our aim is to get people to think about considerations for their hobby they otherwise might not make so I'm glad we got your creativity going! ~Sunny
I really enjoyed this video. Sunny's analysis was great and I really like the back and forth of the discussion. The ideas for new troops sounded good - very appropriate for the legion
So first I want to say that this is a very good video and I think that these ideas are very good for a Slaanesh Space Marine force. I do have two issues though with the suggested units. 1 is that while they are Slaaneshi they don't have ties with the 30k Emperor's Children unique units and GW does like to make 40k equivalents of those types of units as shown with the Thousand Sons and Death Guard. Second is that in the lore there are certain vices associated with Slaanesh and there are even rings decicated to them around their palace in the warp. Greed, Gluttony, Paramouncy, Vainglory, and Idolency. Here are my personal ideas though they aren't the best I will admit. Palatine Blades would be Vainglory themed and all about having trophies of foes as part of their gear Idolency would be terminators with heavy ranged focus with the weapons being grafted to their arms Greed would be Sunkillers with the most ornamental guns you would have ever seen and that is all I could think of.
As we said in the redesign part we would avoid using the seven deadly sins because of the religious connection that's why we connected more with the sensations thing. But it does sound interesting
Crazy how sunny was a able to exactly guess the pre heresy emperors children's relationship with the emperor and their culture based on their armour alone.
Well you have to remember, there is a lot of cultural clues in the armour. Then Sunny goes if this is their culture, how would they interact with Big E. So if you know Big E you can see how things would go from there. Because they put a lot into their cultural clues - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I remember one book with Slaanesh cult in it, one of the leaders was walking about with his skin removed so there's precedense for that kind of thing in the lore too :D
Slaanesh is the most difficult god to understand. To me, slaanesh is more about the idea of desire, and obsession, neither of which can ever really be ever obtained. Another huge theme is the idea of abandoning one’s morals to obtain said obsessions and desires. Take Lucius for example. Not really a lustful or glutinous character. Slaanesh choose him as her mortal champion because of his obsession to master the blade and the rejection of his own beauty to do so
As someone who plays Emperor's Children, your unit suggestions are really cool! I struggle to paint a nice pink I am happy with, but magenta is far more approachable when painting.
Glad you like them! I hope you will continue to enjoy the other videos about design vs lore. And if you like the design stuff you could learn about magenta the invisible colour in the in-depth colour psychology video - Cal
Another commenter had explained a little on the studs as well but it is nice to hear the little lore tit bits after the video because as mentioned we couldn't go too deep because it's meant to be an analysis ~Sunny
FYI, the image used at 38:03 (and later in the video as well) is not of the Emperor's Children, but of the Soul Drinkers, an unrelated space marine chapter.
Fair enough so, I mostly handle the audio side and let Sunny do the video and review, I didn't pick that up... and I would say the reason is... those came up in searches for the Emperor's Children and they were so similar Sunny couldn't tell the difference and to be fair they are similar enough that I didn't spot it either - Cal
Given recent models like Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony, I suspect GW is on the page as Cal regarding exspanding depictions of Slaanesh related excess.
Yeah well kids are GWs target demographic and its a bit hard or rather I should say wrong to sell that kind of excess to kids. But Gluttony and other such excess isn't as hard a sell - Cal
Thanks for another great video. You know your ideas are perfectly possible; in general, according to the lore, the chaos could become anything they need; the problem is that GW never works on the lore, and new innovations don't happen frecuently.
This was a really interesting discussion and would love to hear more of this type of stuff from 40k or other games as well. The redesign on the senses was a really cool take.
Yes unfortunately like Cal said it would be great if there was equal interest for some of the other games when we do these design / art breakdowns but RUclips seems to only want creators to focus on one thing which is Warhammer ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow bummer to hear that! Just recently found your channel and enjoy the content and discussions on color so I'll be here for the Warhammer or whatever you decide to do!
@@derricksmith8354 hopefully with more subs we can try again in the future and we can get some more love for other stuff. We were planning on doing some Xenos stuff in the future and doing some AoS stuff but... we have a lot of things we want to do and time is always against us. Well we hope you enjoy other other content in the mean time - Cal
Fair but history gets a bit muddled with that guy. Apparently it's all character assassination, IDK 😐 BUT how are you like the design lore stuff I see a few of your comments - Cal
Yes they were, this was the first numbered legion as I said, so like if we were counting who fell to chaos by the numbers, not who fell first because this is the first legion we have covered who fell to chaos as they are number three. Not suggesting that they fell before the word bearers, if you listen again hopefully it will come through but your not the first to say that so I guess we will have to be clearer in the future - Cal Quick edit I forgot to say it was me saying that not Sunny ha ha
I don't think people should shy away from elements of the Chaos gods overlapping, slightly in some ways. After all, they can be interpreted as parts of a greater whole, in Chaos undivided. Certain features, like tentacles and spikes can overlap with several Chaos gods. Tzeentch loves tentacles, and is most associated with them, but Nurgle has some as well, and they pop up with Slaanesh. Khorne loves his horns and bestial themes, but so does Slaanesh. An association with fire is also shared between Khorne and Tzeentch. Chaos is chaos, and we shouldn't pigeonhole certain elements to be exclusive to certain gods. That would be far too clean and orderly.
As for the roman part, their pre heresy version was pretty much a direct reference to the praetorian guard, which would also wear purple uniforms and were recruited from the sons of senators and other high class people.
tbh they feel way too roman... Would have liked to see some more phonecian and levantine influence. I know the imperium is very keen on roman style however this is the imperium of Mankind i think it would be better to see some more influences here in there.
The thing about their excess you didn't touch on, is the excess of feeling and experiencing. They are about pushing pleasure and pain beyond mortal levels, hence the insect design cause they exposed themselves to such loud volumes it disintegrated and mutilated their flesh. Khorne's followers are about killing and murder, BUT, they don't torture. Cause that, is Slaneesh. It's not just pleasure in sex, but suffering, agony and despair. The psychological torture feeds Slaneesh and that's a big part of their more violent, deadly parts. It's to cause as much suffering as possible.
We try to always look at from the cooperate perspective, and think how can we sell that, and we cannot sell what you are describing which is why didn't go into it - Cal
Ahh yes where Sunny almost killed me... but you do have to admit it's one of those out of the mouths of babes moment where you're like wait what? - Cal
36:52 "AKSHUALLY!" ehem, not that I am trying to be "that guy" but in the old Eldar lore it is mentioned how "lazyness" was one of the reasons for why they fell. They had reached a point where their technology was so advanced that they no longer needed to do ANY work, and so became lazy and entitled. So many just laid about all day and indulged in drinking and eating. So gluttony ... although I just don't think the Eldar have it in them to become fat. They probably thow up!
I adore the hair metal noise marine, fully hoping that they go with that look when the emperor's children get their range refresh. Keep the speaker-mouths for bare heads, and fully embrace the rockstar look.
@WhatareyouPaintingnow I mean more theming. Now, this is certainly probably just a me thing with my biases. I don't have an issue in the most literal sense for a thing having lots of eyes. I just think theming fits with Tzeentch more as among many other names. He's been described as the God of eyes. The God of forbidden knowledge and change. He strikes me as an elder God from a lovecraft/bloodborne entity. In that sight and beholding is linked to him, whereas other sensations are linked with the other gods. But thanks for your replies and reading my ramblings.
I have an Emperor's Children army collected since 1993 (2nd edition.) My army represents some different aspects of excess beyond just Noise Marines. There is a term psycho-sexual pleasure where non-sexual acts create a strong endorphin response. This allows other pathways to pleasure to be used. My Warp Talons derive pleasure from the hunt and the sensation of taking their prey apart with their fingers/claws. The Raptors are butchers. The vibration of a chainsword churning through flesh and bone and the smell of spraying bits are the sensations they crave. The Possessed are the extreme body modification masochists. The Havocs love making things explode. I have a converted Fabius Bile mini that resembles Pinhead from Hellraiser. For new unit design I could imagine: a flame based squad of pyromaniacs (extra eyes to appreciate the pretty colors?), Bikers who crave speed, Noise Marines with different instruments (they could all function as Sonic Blasters.), a scout/recon unit that takes information from the enemy by eating them and really savors the process (large toothy mouths with extended tongues) perhaps they fashion cloaks from the skin of their victims. These aspects of excess can be represented in a PG-13 fashion so parents won't see the models as worse than "regular" Chaos Marines.
If the Iron Hands had fallen to Slaanesh instead of the Emperor's Children, what would their design aspect be and what are some themes that could be explored with that hypothetical what-if? Also speaking of "what-ifs", what do you guys think of some of the Alternate Heresies such as the Dornian Heresy, Roboutian Heresy, and Lionel Heresy?
Oh no no no this is bait for me to look like one of those crazy people who has their own version of the Dornian Hersey... Well technically it's called the Lion's Legacy... Nope nope nope you have me doing it
@@ChaseDaOrk3767 Maybe one day I will get into it... but we can hardly get out one video a week especially with our recent sickness maybe once we are ahead I will try convince Sunny to listen to my made ramblings on mic... I mean more than I already do - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Take your time on getting better, best of luck of you two. Also incase if you're still interested in looking into reading up on those Alternate Heresies, I can give out a few recommendations
I like your ideas for redesign, but maybe not fully the execution? "Eyes guy" could be confused with worshippers of Tzeentch (both Thousand Sons Marines and demons), because many units of them have multiple eyes, most likely bird ones. On the other hand, bug eyes are often design element of Nurgle minis. I think that some sort of spider eyes (black unblinking orbs) would work better. Devourers should have monstrous gaping mouth, and also maybe some sort of feelers/whiskers/antennas? Or snake tongues. I think you missed one big design clue with their character called Fabius Bile, also known as "The Spider". Yeah, style them after creepy crawlies! In fact, Fabius miniature is peak EC design - crazy surgeon obsessed with perfectionism (he even made several clones of few Primarchs, including his own Primarch Fulgrim) and wearing pimp-cloak made from other, "lesser" people.
There are a lot of things that cross over the gods I mean having tentacles is Nurgle, Slannesh and Tzeentch's thing. But the Spider eyes is a good idea, plus spiders already have lots of eyes does work quite a bit. We avoid talking about prominate individuals when talking about the legion because we believed that, that would take a lot away from the legion and make it more about them. Like in the first Legion one we almost didn't mention the Lion except the change in uniforms. Because its the Legion as a whole - Cal
Loving these videos but if I should give some unsolicited feedback it would be to easy up with the switching back and forth every sentence. It's break up the flow and takes more energy to listen to
Now that I watched it, I think this is a great analysis, especially with ideas for new units. That's what I also see as hugely underrepresented - it's doesn't need to be only sexual, I would go as far as saying that it doesn't have to be sexual at all. All space marines are able to gather memories and feelings from the devoured brain tissue, and there even are space marines that are practicing ritualistic cannibalism, from just drinking blood as blood angels do, to full on genociding the civilians for the feast (sons of malice before being excommunicated). Playing on this trope would be on point, Hannibal Lector style. Regular food doesn't do anything for them, so they devour the enemy soldiers. Same goes with vision-based unit idea. Space Marines are more perceptive than regular humans, they might as well be looking for their victims. Snipers might also be a good idea, seeing themselves as artists, who use rifles as artist uses his brush. For some reason, I think both recon and ranged units might be a good fit for vision-based unit. Noise marines already got sound and hearing side of things covered, so I guess that already works. I would, lol, add more instruments I guess. Why only sonic blasters, sonic jaw implants and sometimes guitar guns, when we can have sonic drums, sonic keyboards, sonic everything? It sounds ridiculous but I kind of fits I guess? I mean, sisters of battle already have a freaking church organ shooting rockets. What I'd like to add, they have very *heavy* BDSM overtones, which comes with its' own cultural baggage. You didn't miss that per se, but I think that was the central idea of their design, well at least during the older era of 40k. And that would also play perfectly with the unit idea of the "feelers", to have a tank-role represented. They actively look for pain and actively attract it to receive warped sense of pleasure.
Yeah your not wrong about the adult thing with the B and the S and the Ms ha ha ha, that's why I laughed so hard when Sunny said His straight out an adult store. A few people have talked about the sniper idea, but I thought they would lack the focus for that, because I mean zero in on one thing would offend Slannesh when you can look at everything all the time! But it could be interesting the idea of a sniper artist but there would have to be some draw back rule wise to them firing because they want the perfect artistic shot. Anyway thank you so much for the comment we are really going to have to do a feedback one for everything that people have said thus far! - Cal
I mean technically all the chaos gods are some form of excess Gluttony and sloth already sticks to nurgle Wrath already firmly is within the conception of khorne Absurd complexity, greed and pride already fits with tzeench Slannesh feels less like the lord of excess but rather feels more like the lord of debauchery. All of chaos is degeneration, but slannesh strongly embodies debased and debaucherous behaviour.
Well that's why many of them see him her it as a threat because I remember reading about just that with the wrath part with Khorne how that can give Slannesh power - Cal
I wonder if when they do legions like the blood angels who pre primarch had a drastically different color scheme than there post primarch scheme and it’s meanings
40k noob here, but would it be possible for a Necron Flayer to fall to Slaanesh in a similar fashion to the Noise Marines? My idea... It could literally be a drum machine. It's always trying to find the perfect snare sound (impossible). Uses drumstick like weapons and takes the flesh to make drums. Has an ability called "Blast Beats." D'ktor Aavlinch would be it's name, a nod to Sisters of Mercy's drum machine (Doktor Avalanche).
Lore is quite conflicted here. People had been speculating for years about whether or not can a necron permanently kill Lucius the Eternal (which basically possesses anyone who felt pride for besting him in combat, the reasoning was that necrons are automatons and don't have souls or real sense of pride) until it was confirmed that no, he can't, because pride felt by a program still counts. Which is extremely weird, because otherwise necrons are extremely devoid of anything warp-related. The bottom line is - as long as it's cool and doesn't break the rules, do whatever you want, it's your minis.
My emperors children are warlock purple and gold with black plumes and horns some black, silver and pink tossed in on some details. Glowing green or blazing orange eyes and pink flesh
I agree more with Sunny here, the Lore has slaanesh being incepted because of sex drugs and rock and roll. Having her as god of excess makes little sense to me as all Chaos Gods are inherently excessive.
i think with slaanesh the "excess" can be taken to mean sensory and experiential excess rather than simply every kind of excess. that's only one of the dark prince's wheelhouses anyway, he's also the god of pleasure, pain, obsession & decadence so there's a very clear delineation between him and the other 3 major gods. however, as cal says, slaanesh can also feed off of devotees of his rivals, just not exactly in the manner he suggests. for example, when a khornate cultist feels satisfaction after a kill, or a tzeentchian sorcerer obsesses over the machinations of the lord of change
That makes sense I suppose purpose wise, but knowing that fact now, I still think conceptually it just seems like a way to make the powerpacks look more chaos like because functionally speaking this design doesn't show how it's designed to move through the void ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow yes of course it was a very arbitrary decision to make them look different. it was just hard to watch you correct her when she was on the right track conceptually
@@alanmacdonald1457 Sunny is the she, we do state our names at the start of the video, that was Sunny talking to you thus the signature at the end - Cal
@@alanmacdonald1457 You told "her" Sunny, that she was wrong just then... and that it was wrong to correct "her" when she just respond to you. "it was just hard to watch you correct her" - Cal
Spot on here. Alexander the Great was known to wear a purple cloak every day with a white sash. Fulgrim's bright white hair calls that to mind and the excesses of Alexander in his later years parallels the fall of the Emperor's Children.
I love this episode but completely wrong about Slaanesh being wholistically a representation of ALL FORMS of excess. The Choas gods do not directly match the seven sins even in a sanitized form as the causes of those Sins are just as important as the sin itself. Excess is indeed an action that can take many forms but Slaanesh and directly to Emperor's Children, it is their pride and desire to be the best that allowed EC to separate itself from other Slannesh influence unit/armies from across the games workshop universe. I can go into this a deeper but I can use your new unit concepts as an example of how the "excess for all" theme of an EC army doesn't work and really tramples over the other Chaos gods. The crawling scout marine. very cool concept but the reason for a Marine to do such a thing is not in the pursuit of perfect or excess but for knowledge. It is very Tzeentch and really could fit into a Thousand Sons army. The Devourer is a good concept with Feel, but the smell goes very much Nurgle and you even mention how it could be simple the "Great Clean One". The Feeler is a fantastic theme but your idea just feels like a Plague Marine who WANTS to feel the plague and disease instead of not being able to feel it. I think the main focus of personal improvement, Pride and personal excess toward those ideas is a fantastic take of that chaos gods and separates EC from the Hedonites in a very great way. Also, you forget the some of these directly added to the astartes of the Emporer's Children but some of the Cult worshippers.
I would disagree because we see them pushing for excess in many fields and there is no 'perfection' in the noise marines they are just crank sound to 110% and go hog wild. The reason why Slannesh was a threat to the other gods was because of his/her need for excess, it does trample on the toes of the other gods and there is a bit of that in the lore. But its okay to have disagreements, people will have different perspectives on things. Thanks for watching and I hope even though we disagree you found the content entertaining - Cal
First numbered legion is what I said, so like if we are counting by legion number no who fell first, we make these videos in the order of the numbers - Cal
Your redesign would be rubbish, let's face it nipples look better than eyes. The other gods and their legions are more like forces of nature where Slaanesh had to be born. It's a god of ego, some are perfection and others go down a body horror hell raiser path. After the HH they split up in small groups and were never unified to the degree other legions might maintain. They can't be a normal let's not offend anyone glory boys fraction, they are cool because their ideal is heresy. There's no brotherhood behind them, the main commanders were probably happy their primarch was gone, the rest of them never seemed to of care that Fulgrim wasn't around either, they don't really seem to suffer like Dark Eldar do when there's no pleasure to be had. They enjoy been naughty and tolerate those that share a similar passion. There's no deep philosophy behind there madness. They are the perfection of Chaos
Timestamps
0:00 Introduction
1:00 Pre-Heresy Design Breakdown
3:20 Pre-Heresy Design Analysis
7:42 Pre-Heresy Design vs Lore
11:23 Pre-Heresy Art
13:05 Pre-Heresy Final Notes
14:54 Post Heresy Design Breakdown
20:21 Post Heresy Design Analysis
26:59 Post Heresy Design vs Lore
31:49 Post Heresy Art
36:31 Post Heresy Final Notes
37:36 Redesign
43:18 Outro
43:50 Post Credit Announcement
"It looks like something that came from adult store" She really maxed out her insight
Perhaps 🐮- Cal
🤣 ~Sunny
And she's 💯 right. That's where I get my EC.
Reiner... are we talking about the same EC or is this something that can't be talked about on RUclips - Cal
She’s not wrong
The "little dots" are "molecular bonding studs" in the lore.
If i remember correctly these start appearing with the mark 5 power armour at the time of the horus heresy, since the need for extra armor came with the fact that space marines started to face their own powerful guns, really good for armor penetration. They are supposed to be some makeshift last minute armor improvement.
Since the legions turning traitors caused some havoc in the imperium ressource lines, this also can explain the skulls and other decorative elements, as well as the differents looks of the legions since chapters had to forge their own customs gear due to the lack of supplies.
I know this but that's why we had that bit at the start otherwise half of the video is going to explaining things. Plus this way Sunny can focus on the design part - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnowSo true, lore is way too dense, i understand perfectly skipping some parts of it.
It was more in case someone was curious of how this silly design came to exist.
Good video non the less, i like the exchange between the two of you, there is so many content creators out there alone in front of their cameras.
A bit of change is nice sometimes
@@elgodeorn5146 The lore can be super dense and sometimes super dense if you catch my drift... but!
It can be very fun. Glad you liked it, I hope you check out the other two that are up already ☺
Elgodeorn Thank you very much for your kind words on how we deliver these videos it makes us feel like we are on the right path with our content creation style! But I also liked learning about the bobbles from you, now I finally know because it did seem very decorative ~Sunny
I've also thought that Slaanesh's aspect as a god of excess could be expanded more. Of course, with gluttony, an element of that is present with Nurgle (but I've got ideas about converting greater daemons that play on this theme, so for instance a feminine Kali style Bloordthirster, which would look kinda Slaaneshy et cetera) but that could be a way of showing how Chaos melds and twists out of the same source. Excess is a tricky thing to represent on a model becuase it has to have a look and a gaming role - a Hellraiser style would work well there, but GW already used that a bit with the Dark Eldar, although they've moved away from that over the years I would say.
I guess a lot of those new greater demon models with the fans I forgot their exact name could be very Kali inspired in a way...
Hmmm that could be a great conversion...
But I mean Dark Eldar and Slannesh crossing over isn't really that out there is it? I mean technically who is responsible - Cal
In general, on the tabletop -and even the lore to a certain extent - the chaos gods are handled really poorly in 40k. Unlike Fantasy and AoS, all chaos stuff is almost entirely squeezed through the narrow lens of "space marine", and even then it's filtered down to one or two of the more superficial and overt aspects of a given god. This isn't so much a problem for the simpler gods, like Khorne or Nurgle (to a lesser extent), but it absolutely cripples the potential of Tzeentch and Slaanesh.
I don't know too much about AoS but I would have to agree with what you said based on my observations ~Sunny
Slannesh is very poorly conveyed in the models, most aspects of slannesh are supposed to be appealing from a distance to lure you in before you notice the corruption. The only two characters I feel actually represent this are Azazel from Total War Warhammer 3 and Sigvald the Magnificent. Both appear attractive from afar, Azazel looking like an angel or Greek god, and Sigvald appearing like this glorious golden warrior, yet are corrupted once you are to close to escape, Azazels claw and Sigvalds narcissism.
@@blizzardgaming7070 That's a pretty perspective comment and I would agree - Cal
I LOVED this. I've been playing since the game came out in 1987, and built a slaanesh army before there were noise marines.
The idea of having specialist troops based on the many senses is so....fundamental...I don't know how I didn't think of it. It's GREAT!
I am very glad to here that honestly I myself didn't think of it but when Cal mentioned it I was like uh duh why didn't I think of that?! ~Sunny
I am really glad to hear someone from the old school hear what we suggest and then go actually that's not to bad, because usually the old school players are the hardest to convince so maybe we are doing something right? - Cal
When it seems "self-evident after the fact", you know you're onto something big. Did you say you guys had STLs of those proposed troops from the artwork in the video?@@WhatareyouPaintingnow
@@abcdodd We have STLs of our own game and you get them by becoming an elite WAYPN channel member right now, the ones at 44:08 making those sorts of troops could get us into trouble...
i liked that the emepror children used sound based weapons
Cal and Sonny another hit out of park video! I am a Chaos aficionado and I would love to see the units that you designed for the EC. Please keep it up
Thanks so much Rory. Well we would have loved to make some of them but we were flat out being unwell and having such a long episode for this week! - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I meant GW picking up the ideas of those units.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I meant GW picking up the ideas of those units.
Would be great if they did! ~Sunny
regarding the chest aquila, the emperor's children were the only legion allowed to feature it on their armour so you won't have seen it on any other legions' armour.
regarding the metallic look of the paint jobs, that's just a design flourish expressed by some artists, it's not that commonly represented on the miniatures themselves.
also, the iii legion weren't the first to fall to chaos, that was the word bearers who fell to chaos undivided as a result of erebus' machinations.
as far as the colour theory goes, you're spot on i think. black & pink is known to be a sensual/sexual colour combination.
funny you mentioned the emperor's children not having enough options, they're heavily rumoured to be getting a codex soon so they'll get new units if that happens. i mean, them just having noise marines as unique unit type does fit with the theme of the other monogod traiter legions - the thousand sons have rubric marines, the death guard have plague marines, and the world eaters have berserkers - but the world eaters got the eightbound as well in their last codex so maybe gw are dispensing with that one-unique-unit-per-legion ethos. i hope so because i, like you, think it'd be fun to expand their rosters a bit
I love these types of videos! Make one for every legion PLEASE 🤩
Glad you enjoyed these so much I hope you continue to as we go through them - Cal
You almost banished him back to the warp with that adult store comment… 😈
I was still recovering from a sickness so yes... Banished but not the warp 💀 - Cal
Before fulgrim fully fell to chaos he had an awkward interaction with a regular human sculptor where the primarch wanted feedback on his sculptures, and the young man told fulgrim to his face he made art without heart, so perfect it lacked soul. And fulgrim didn’t want the truth he wanted gracious platitudes. I think your color psychology matches that whole debacle perfectly
Oh yeah I remember that bit... man the Fulgrim book was just like... stop... dude no... what... no please come on- could you just... man... okay this is happening - Cal
I didn't know that! Thanks for sharing, part of the way these design vs Lore videos are structured they are styled like reaction videos so I can't have prior knowledge to what I give my analysis on (which is the whole premise of course) so it's nice to hear comments that share bits and pieces for me to read after the fact~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow possibly my favourite hh novel so far out of the 7 or 8 i've read. but yeah it is very messed up
Well to be fair. He didn’t say it like that. He said it was too perfect and didn’t really explain what he meant by that. So he basically just told Fulgrim his sculpture was shit because it was „too good“ and left it at that.
But the scene still characterized Fulgrim very well. Though I think a bit differently than you say here
@@feliorserapheel6539 yeah fulgrim was one of the worst primarchs out there
Do comments made while a video is Members Only help with the algorithm?
Excellent analysis btw!!
We believe so...
Oh that is a great idea, i was thinking expanding on the perfectionist thing with more duelist style units. But units that focus on seeing, tasteing and touching just ups the creep facter.
We aim to please... 😉 - Cal
I do have to agree with you on upping the creep factor I think it's because when we did the design analysis of the post heresy EC they seemed to stray from perfectionism because they are very haphazard and also creepy in some of the art so followed their line of thinking ~Sunny
I would like to say "bravo" to Sunny (sorry if mispelled). I am impressed about her reading of The Emperor's Children. I went to art school and was taught this kind of thing and I know an awesome interpretation when I see one.
Don't worry about spelling we have some who still say Sonny instead ha ha. Sunny is correct but we're way more happy to have nice comments than correct spelling going to show it to Sunny now - Cal
Thank you so much! I like seeing the comments from some of the watchers who are graphic designers or had an art background in general it feels relatable for me to talk about art school days haha. Yes I too had to do art analysis in college and I am glad that I got a good analysis down I am trying to improve on that because I feel for the dark angels one I could have done a better job and I'm glad my brain worked for this video and I had words to give a good analysis ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I watched the Dark Angels video as well and I think you did a great job. I appreciate everything you have to say and I look forward to future videos. I had to change careers away from art due to income issues (go figure) and 40k is the vessel for my creativity these days. I've spent the past year creating my Irish space marine chapter and I have thought a lot about what color communicates. Great to have some fellow art aficionados in the hobby with me! Thanks again.
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I appreciate it, Cal. I enjoy the channel very much and I look forward to seeing more. It's a great direction and very helpful to the community to think more about these concepts.
@@RSBurgener I appricate that we are attracting audience members like you, people who not only enjoy what we are doing but engaging. I hope that some our other straight hobby/art stuff like the in-depth colour theory will help with the colour communication knowledge and I hope we keep seeing you in the comment sections in the future! - Cal
The origin of the EC being from noble families on Terra finally explains their draw to excess for me. Privilege can come with taking things for granted, and taking things for granted is how you fall into excess, deceit, and manipulation. Many had power as children over servants. Even if given as young teenagers, there is no influence that can undo that. If they lose, they take it as a personal sleight. Their excess isn't just the common debauchery tropes they're given, but a deep desire to obtain what they want. Lucius comes to mind.
And your forgetting one vital part of the slighted part which ties it all in a neat little bow. Most of them came from defeated noble houses in order to gain favour with the Emperor so they wouldn't lose their positions - Cal
Nailed it!
I would buy your designed sensation Marines!
I can't think of a more ringing endorsement than I would buy! - Cal
The last group could be The Numbed, having practically burnt out their nerves despite Astartes physiology, granting them Feel No Pain. They could also gain First Strike when the unit is below 50%, because they've all taken damage, and they're getting stoked! This, and their physical design would help distinguish them from Plague Marines.
I hope GW people watch this as you've put together some great points and opinions on where this legion could go lore wise and model range wise. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if some insider at GW steals your ideas for their PowerPoint.
To Add My Hot Take: The lore has always suggested that Slaanesh is the baby brother Chaos God and has potential to overpower the other Gods of chaos. Using this as motive, when Slaanesh makes his/her/it's move to explode on the scene with a newly empowered champion force (EC's). With a revamped range of troops/codex. Fulgrim may be locked into a slithering form of Gorro already but that doesn't mean the rest of his legion (full of independents) would follow suite design wise.
It would be nice to think some of the GW people watch but I hope they don't think we are ragging on them. And we gave those ideas freely so no one would be stealing. A new Emperor's Children would be great, I hope it comes this year - Cal
As a teenager I had a random 40K book that followed the story of a Chaos Marine playing Chaos against itself.
Anyhow during a battle involving some Emporers Children (EC) an EC Dreadnought exposed their sarcophagus to the elements so that it could feel sensation again.
I think that could be a potentially awesome redesign of a Chaos Dreadnought. One where the broken body of the space marine could be exposed in a hiendonist way.
My rection to seeing this went from "oh awesome! WAYPN has a new design vs lore video!" to "oh I wasn't expecting it to be Emperor's Children" to "...uhh I wonder if Sunny is going to be comfortable explaining to everyone on YT about exactly what she notices in the design."
Well played though. This was a lot of fun!
Yes, I laughed many times at Sunny noticing many things... It was a fun episode to do I think you can really hear it in the post heresy part... we went far longer than we should have but we were just really enjoying it - Cal
Well as you can see Sir Speaktome I was very comfy with pointing out the naughty things but I only hope that I have managed to keep my language PG 😛 ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Lol Yep you not only guessed the lore spot on, your professionalism also made it through the video completely unscathed. Bravo, Sunny!
As a note on how the Eldar fell, there’s actually quite a bit outside of murder, art and sex. Something which I feel often gets glossed over is that many of the pleasure cults dedicated themselves to esoteric knowledge. They were maddeningly obsessive about their chosen disciplines, pursuing knowledge at any cost. You can see a bit of the Haemonculi from the Drukhari with the ideas of twisted science. It’s also said that they explored sensory and emotional experience in just about every possible way. I imagine there being those who would inflict horrible things upon themselves in the name of feeling ever greater sensation. Indolence, feasting and narcotics are all explicitly named elements in their fall.
edit: I realize I have, in effect, just said “um, ackshually.” My sincerest apologies. I really love the Eldar and wanted to share some cool stuff about them. Also, I didn’t even talk about the design ideas!!! I will do so in another comment under this one.
Really enjoy the idea of the many-eyed unit; the notion of Emperor's Children covered in eyes has crossed my mind before. I think the Gluttons would be cooler if the focus was more upon mouths and tongues rather than obesity. With the lore of Astartes being able to recall memories of individuals they eat, their cannibalistic frenzies could be a way of them not only delighting in delectable flesh, but also accruing 'experiences.' One of the difficulties I find with Emperor's Children design is that they are so different between their pre-heresy and post-heresy designs. For the Traitor Marines I like to imagine how far their mightiest have fallen. For the Phoenix Guard Terminators I have a design idea of them having tanks containing all manner of drugs to push their performance ever closer to perfection; their loyalty to their wards may be seen as a part of their quest for perfection or may have become secondary to the pursuit of excellence.
Its all G I can see you are sincere in your response, your not trying to talk down to us just talk about stuff... this is a bit of the problem... so like we said at the start we ignore a bit of the deep lore because... people don't get that far. Design as she said is what is read on the surface rather than what is read deeply.
And Games-Workshop/Warhammer sell much more the idea of sex, drugs and rock and roll being the end of the Eldar, rather than the more eldritch horror parts. I think its cool... but I think Exodites is the most copyrightable most interesting idea I have seen since Dinotopia but still they haven't released models for them or even rules! So, what I have to say doesn't count for a lot, a lot of the time. Thank you so much for your passion - Cal
I think you could do the drug frenzy guys with a whole lot of beakers and jugs and stuff on the back of the terminators like those Skaven guys... I can't remember the name off the top or like the genestealer cult ones, guys with lots of vials you get the idea. And just have the one head which is bare basically having their eyes popping out of their head... that could be cool.
I think the reason why we wanted warped and grotesques is to make it horrific rather than another sexy version of the thing like oh... where are those hand tounges going and so on just something you look at and go... yuck
Once again thanks for the passionate comments! - Cal
If I can add a bit of lore content :
- You're not wrong about the nobles having to give their child for this legion, but they got their name from the emperor after saving his life.
- The legion became plagued and only a few hundred of them survived, so they became really, REALLY obsessed with perfection because they did not have the numbers to keep up with other legions but their name put a lot of expectations on them. I think "perfection" is the best one word description for the pre-heresy legion.
Love the video, I hope to see more of this kind of content in the future, I 100% agree with the redesign ideas as I think with the emperor children model range, they lack variety as they just seem to stick to one notion/ concept without explorer what else could be done.
Once again great video.
Yeah we love their design so we were like what else can we do?
I think the different variations of them were very fun to explore as we were doing the design analysis, I would say because of how creative their design is I got very excited and would have to agree that the creativity of their design could have been explored further by GW ~Sunny
Honestly you guys really nailed how Slaneesh is more Execessive Sensation than just Rock and Roll Orgies (tho that too).
And GW has definitely leaned more on the former as inspiration for some models, the first one to come to mind is one of a Daemonette playing a harp made of the muscles coming off the back of some poor soul. So they've shown that they're capable of taking Slaneesh in more interesting directions.
Totally, glad it came across well - Cal
The modern Emperor's Children are to stimulate all of the senses. Not only physically, but even visually; followers of Slaanesh tend to lean toward purples and pinks for fleshtone. For armor, they tend to use colors that are striking, beautiful, and/or gaudy to attack one's sense of vision; both beautiful, yet unsettling! So some warbands post-heresy can use one or more colors of "Purple, pink and black; various other pastels."
Absolutely loves these added troops, particularly the Feelers, absolutely Emp Chil; terrifying, psychotic and on brand!
Thank you so much for this comment. I am really glad to see people connecting with them because obviously with our schedule we can't make all of these models physically but we can try and flesh them out a little, hope you enjoy the rest of the series - Cal
I think an interesting idea for you guys to include would be a "corporate safe" redesign section.
BUT also have a complete Lore wide redesign with no limits.
That would make it fun.
Something for the corporate gray sludge.
And something for us homebrew make it at home guys.
Totally get what you are saying but, it wouldn't make us very interesting. There are a lot of people out there 'raging against the machine'. The reason I think people appreciate some of our redesigns is we do it with in the constraint of what a cooperate brief would look like. But once we got to the tenth we have considered doing one where we physically do the redesigns for the minis, but we will burn that bridge when we get to it - Cal
Amazing breakdown however I have a few points related to the redesign that I would like to discuss
The units having their themes related to the 5 senses is a great idea that is already lore friendly in how the ECs are portrayed, as addicts to sensations, going to extremes to feel more and more, however the ones presented are missing or going in a different way, IMO incorporating more of the cenobite feel and the willingly use combat drugs and xenos organs even pre-fall to enhance themselves could play a bigger role.
The Scouts one may step to closely to how Tzeench mutations manifest, Slaanesh does grant gifts to the sight of their followers, the black eyes on the amazing art piece are one of those examples, and they could represent enhanced sight, and the ability to see the whole spectrum of light, or even see trough the warp itself. The models may have those 4 to 8 scorpion-like eyes around their heads and carry long ranged weapons and signify the pursue to the perfect shot, and to have perfect aim, could also have intricate armor to show a liking to art, how profane or beautifull is up to interpretation.
For the smell, in lore, some of the signs of a Slaanesh related event is the strong perfumes, both amazingly pleasant and disgusting, that and also probably a drug in practice, the marines related to this sense may enter the field carrying incenses or vials, or having special organs to disperse that stuff to enhance their allies and harm their foes, a model represented with gills or smoke coming fron their bodies may do the trick, they would be related to how they use drugs to enhance themselves to achieve perfection
for the touch, your interpretation is amazing and goes hand and hand as some ECs are portrayed in books, again, the cenobite feel, there is one in 30k that keeps their tongue nailed to their armor, so he can pull it every time he moves, and other that keeps a skinned part of his body constantly exposed, having some mutation or surgery that exposes nerves on top of their armor could be a plausible thing also, they would be melee specialists, and act eager to feel the pain of being shot and cut.
for the feeling of taste is where I would diverge the most, a morbidly obese marine would be to close to how the bloated nurgle marines are portrayed, instead I would propose the opposite, ghoulish and extremely thin marines, more closely resembling the more classic wendigo legends, close to having a androgynous body, instead of the square of beef that marines normally are, cannibalistic and with some mutated jaw or tongue to represent that urge to eat, preferably related to scorpions and snakes (i can imagine they dislocating their jaws to eat just like snakes do) as a nod to one of the animals often related to Slaanesh, as they feel constantly famished and/or eager to taste different beings
Well we mixed both taste and smell together because they are actually the same sense, the reason we didn't go thin as you suggested is because that would be adding two units that are extremely thin which design wise would be very similar. But you could use the smell/perfume idea rule wise with them having some sort of difficulty to hit?
Scouts idea sounds interesting but its hard to visualise
But all of these sound very interesting -Cal
I do like the way you have considered the perfectionism and mutations that would allow them to do so and I like seeing your interpretation or refinement of the concept we presented! ~Sunny
With the scouts, I could absolutely see their power armour growing an eye that is similar to Horus' "Eye of Terra". Would be a neat nod to the grandfather of treason.
Marines with huge licking tongues, extruding from their masks, for taste would be cool simply because I think that looks cool as hell :P. I love the Venom look. The bumps on the old armour has been explained as a gap filler that marines used to use when holes were shot or stabbed into their armour from battle. Having that same look with taste buds would be thematic and unique for these corrupted souls.
Obviously the noise marines need to come back, for sound! They could even use string instruments in the shape of the Slaanesh symbol.
For smell they could have pheromone sirens, luring in enemies to their horrid clutching grasp. Beautiful flowers and perfumes on the front of the models and horrid gaping voids, like noses, that their prey will be stuffed into once lured close enough.
Just some thoughts that came to mind whilst watching your vid. Loved the interesting break down here guys. Thanks!
I love this, subbed.
The colour psychology read was spot-on
Glad you enjoyed, enjoy your stay and we hope your welcome feels warm - Cal
First time viewing the channel. Absolutely loved this breakdown, was really impressed how much lore was teased out of the design before getting to the lore discussion. Love the redesign notions of opening up the number of post heresy/40k units. Has me thinking of finding new ways to convert models for the army and possible what the unit rules could be in a friendly game. As there isn't an official line for Emperor's Children like there is with Black Legion, Thousand Sons, or Plague Marines I think the move to other sensation excess fits the lore and design criteria for models if it were marketed properly. Alternatively, it could be made just so over the top that it circles back to being almost caricature of the pre-heresy design. As for sales I think you'd need to find a way to balance the cultural gender language and sexualization of pinks and purples with the "Rococo-Punk Rock/Cyberpunk dystopia" grotesques even with the new sense based troops. Great Video.
Thank you so much, we try and focus on hobby, painting and design more than the lore part as you saw at the start of the video. I am really glad to hear it got your creative juices flowing! But you are wrong about one things... "... there isn't an official line for Emperor's Children..." YET! The answer is yet! Don't give up hope, I have heard rumours one will be coming soon so hopefully you will get some new models to hobby with soon...ish. I hope. Thank you again for the compliments we try really hard to make the best content we can - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Would be very interested in this series of design and lore discussion exploring factions outside the imperium as well.
Thank you very much for your comment I am glad we made a good impression on you! It does seem people have been enjoying this series but hearing you say that its got your creative juices flowing made me feel good because it shows that the video was a value add. Our aim is to get people to think about considerations for their hobby they otherwise might not make so I'm glad we got your creativity going! ~Sunny
I really enjoyed this video. Sunny's analysis was great and I really like the back and forth of the discussion. The ideas for new troops sounded good - very appropriate for the legion
Thank you very much Pummellhorne! Is there any particular analysis you found interesting? - Sunny
So first I want to say that this is a very good video and I think that these ideas are very good for a Slaanesh Space Marine force. I do have two issues though with the suggested units. 1 is that while they are Slaaneshi they don't have ties with the 30k Emperor's Children unique units and GW does like to make 40k equivalents of those types of units as shown with the Thousand Sons and Death Guard. Second is that in the lore there are certain vices associated with Slaanesh and there are even rings decicated to them around their palace in the warp. Greed, Gluttony, Paramouncy, Vainglory, and Idolency.
Here are my personal ideas though they aren't the best I will admit.
Palatine Blades would be Vainglory themed and all about having trophies of foes as part of their gear
Idolency would be terminators with heavy ranged focus with the weapons being grafted to their arms
Greed would be Sunkillers with the most ornamental guns you would have ever seen
and that is all I could think of.
As we said in the redesign part we would avoid using the seven deadly sins because of the religious connection that's why we connected more with the sensations thing. But it does sound interesting
Crazy how sunny was a able to exactly guess the pre heresy emperors children's relationship with the emperor and their culture based on their armour alone.
Well you have to remember, there is a lot of cultural clues in the armour. Then Sunny goes if this is their culture, how would they interact with Big E. So if you know Big E you can see how things would go from there. Because they put a lot into their cultural clues - Cal
I love these lore videos! it gives deeper connection to the hobby :D Looking forward for more vids like this 👏
Glad you like them! Currently they are coming out once a month ☺️ - Cal
I love the Feelers concept, it would be gnarly af!
I think they would look totally cool, like with blackened skin, it would be fun project to paint I think... - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I remember one book with Slaanesh cult in it, one of the leaders was walking about with his skin removed so there's precedense for that kind of thing in the lore too :D
Slaanesh is the most difficult god to understand. To me, slaanesh is more about the idea of desire, and obsession, neither of which can ever really be ever obtained. Another huge theme is the idea of abandoning one’s morals to obtain said obsessions and desires. Take Lucius for example. Not really a lustful or glutinous character. Slaanesh choose him as her mortal champion because of his obsession to master the blade and the rejection of his own beauty to do so
Excess is the thing it has and like we said hard to market some of the time 😕 I think abandoning morals is more a general chaos thing - Cal
As someone who plays Emperor's Children, your unit suggestions are really cool! I struggle to paint a nice pink I am happy with, but magenta is far more approachable when painting.
Glad you like them! I hope you will continue to enjoy the other videos about design vs lore. And if you like the design stuff you could learn about magenta the invisible colour in the in-depth colour psychology video - Cal
The balls are molecular bonding studs, in order to make quick repairs to the armour during the Horus Humbug
I know this but our focus was design like we said at the start because there are so many rabbit holes so we try not talk too much about lore - Cal
Another commenter had explained a little on the studs as well but it is nice to hear the little lore tit bits after the video because as mentioned we couldn't go too deep because it's meant to be an analysis ~Sunny
As for the third legion, balls are for fun!
FYI, the image used at 38:03 (and later in the video as well) is not of the Emperor's Children, but of the Soul Drinkers, an unrelated space marine chapter.
Fair enough so, I mostly handle the audio side and let Sunny do the video and review, I didn't pick that up... and I would say the reason is... those came up in searches for the Emperor's Children and they were so similar Sunny couldn't tell the difference and to be fair they are similar enough that I didn't spot it either - Cal
i click for lore vs design, i stay and learn something new.
Very glad you enjoyed hope you continue to enjoy them - Cal
Given recent models like Glutos Orscollion, Lord of Gluttony, I suspect GW is on the page as Cal regarding exspanding depictions of Slaanesh related excess.
Yeah well kids are GWs target demographic and its a bit hard or rather I should say wrong to sell that kind of excess to kids. But Gluttony and other such excess isn't as hard a sell - Cal
Thanks for another great video.
You know your ideas are perfectly possible; in general, according to the lore, the chaos could become anything they need; the problem is that GW never works on the lore, and new innovations don't happen frecuently.
Well nobody accused GW of pleasing the fans - Cal
Early EC scheme + Slaanesh symbol = Prince and the Revolution
Machiavelli the Prince? - Cal
the primarch formerly known as fulgrim
This was a really interesting discussion and would love to hear more of this type of stuff from 40k or other games as well. The redesign on the senses was a really cool take.
Yeah I have been considering some other things but last time we tried talking about D&D we didn't get that many views... - Cal
Yes unfortunately like Cal said it would be great if there was equal interest for some of the other games when we do these design / art breakdowns but RUclips seems to only want creators to focus on one thing which is Warhammer ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow bummer to hear that! Just recently found your channel and enjoy the content and discussions on color so I'll be here for the Warhammer or whatever you decide to do!
@@derricksmith8354 hopefully with more subs we can try again in the future and we can get some more love for other stuff. We were planning on doing some Xenos stuff in the future and doing some AoS stuff but... we have a lot of things we want to do and time is always against us. Well we hope you enjoy other other content in the mean time - Cal
This is good timing, I was looking for something to reference as I homebrew a EC warband
I'm looking forward for the Raven Guard video
Oof that's a little while off that one but so long as these are popular we will keep going - Cal
Really glad to see people enthusiastic about this series! ~Sunny
Man I'm excited to see you guys break down world eaters!
White scars are up next so a little way off the world eaters yet - Cal
Love this series, instant like
We are going to try and do one a month still covering other interesting topics in-between
@@WhatareyouPaintingnowi watch most of the videos (sometimes I just don't have time), so I'm on board with everything!
Thank you very much for watching our videos and for your support! ~Sunny
They should be leaning into the noise rockers and expanding on more weird instruments and sonic dreadnoughts, titans, etc
And how would you portray that? - Cal
I might have the wrong history, but Fulgrim after the fall is very Caligula
Fair but history gets a bit muddled with that guy. Apparently it's all character assassination, IDK 😐 BUT how are you like the design lore stuff I see a few of your comments - Cal
Excellent video, great analysis! What's the source of the art at 9:18? Thanks!
Thanks and I am not sure I will ask Sunny we try really hard to attribute artists but sometimes it is difficult
Awesome video, weren't the word bearers the first to fall to chaos though?
Yes they were, this was the first numbered legion as I said, so like if we were counting who fell to chaos by the numbers, not who fell first because this is the first legion we have covered who fell to chaos as they are number three.
Not suggesting that they fell before the word bearers, if you listen again hopefully it will come through but your not the first to say that so I guess we will have to be clearer in the future - Cal
Quick edit I forgot to say it was me saying that not Sunny ha ha
I don't think people should shy away from elements of the Chaos gods overlapping, slightly in some ways. After all, they can be interpreted as parts of a greater whole, in Chaos undivided. Certain features, like tentacles and spikes can overlap with several Chaos gods. Tzeentch loves tentacles, and is most associated with them, but Nurgle has some as well, and they pop up with Slaanesh. Khorne loves his horns and bestial themes, but so does Slaanesh. An association with fire is also shared between Khorne and Tzeentch. Chaos is chaos, and we shouldn't pigeonhole certain elements to be exclusive to certain gods. That would be far too clean and orderly.
It so funny you say that because I have said similar things in pervious comments, so yeah right there with you - Cal
As for the roman part, their pre heresy version was pretty much a direct reference to the praetorian guard, which would also wear purple uniforms and were recruited from the sons of senators and other high class people.
tbh they feel way too roman... Would have liked to see some more phonecian and levantine influence. I know the imperium is very keen on roman style however this is the imperium of Mankind i think it would be better to see some more influences here in there.
The thing about their excess you didn't touch on, is the excess of feeling and experiencing. They are about pushing pleasure and pain beyond mortal levels, hence the insect design cause they exposed themselves to such loud volumes it disintegrated and mutilated their flesh.
Khorne's followers are about killing and murder, BUT, they don't torture. Cause that, is Slaneesh. It's not just pleasure in sex, but suffering, agony and despair. The psychological torture feeds Slaneesh and that's a big part of their more violent, deadly parts. It's to cause as much suffering as possible.
We try to always look at from the cooperate perspective, and think how can we sell that, and we cannot sell what you are describing which is why didn't go into it - Cal
16:22 that laugh made this video 10x better 😂
Ahh yes where Sunny almost killed me... but you do have to admit it's one of those out of the mouths of babes moment where you're like wait what? - Cal
36:52 "AKSHUALLY!" ehem, not that I am trying to be "that guy" but in the old Eldar lore it is mentioned how "lazyness" was one of the reasons for why they fell. They had reached a point where their technology was so advanced that they no longer needed to do ANY work, and so became lazy and entitled.
So many just laid about all day and indulged in drinking and eating. So gluttony ... although I just don't think the Eldar have it in them to become fat. They probably thow up!
Akshually has to be the best way I have seen that said. I like that actually - Cal
I adore the hair metal noise marine, fully hoping that they go with that look when the emperor's children get their range refresh. Keep the speaker-mouths for bare heads, and fully embrace the rockstar look.
I think that the rock marines are cool but I think they need some more variety but also they should keep the more weird sonic marines design - Cal
Glad to hear you say that but I doubt GW is watching our video haha but I am glad to hear people think that our ideas make sense ~Sunny
I wonder if y’all will redo the video when the codex properly drops
Cannot wait for the next legion design vs lore of the IV th Legion, the Iron Warriors!
Working on it right now! ~Sunny
That anniversary noise marine was the whole aesthetic prior to the late 90’s. Warhammer got edgy in the late 90’s and it never really recovered.
I think that was because it got very popular and it was very safe for games-workshop so they went with it - Cal
39:46 It could work, but to me, eyes are a very Tzeentch thing. He is the God of eyes after all.
Is he the god of eyes? I mean Nurgle guys have lots of eyes too - Cal
@WhatareyouPaintingnow I mean more theming. Now, this is certainly probably just a me thing with my biases.
I don't have an issue in the most literal sense for a thing having lots of eyes. I just think theming fits with Tzeentch more as among many other names. He's been described as the God of eyes.
The God of forbidden knowledge and change. He strikes me as an elder God from a lovecraft/bloodborne entity. In that sight and beholding is linked to him, whereas other sensations are linked with the other gods.
But thanks for your replies and reading my ramblings.
I have an Emperor's Children army collected since 1993 (2nd edition.) My army represents some different aspects of excess beyond just Noise Marines. There is a term psycho-sexual pleasure where non-sexual acts create a strong endorphin response. This allows other pathways to pleasure to be used. My Warp Talons derive pleasure from the hunt and the sensation of taking their prey apart with their fingers/claws. The Raptors are butchers. The vibration of a chainsword churning through flesh and bone and the smell of spraying bits are the sensations they crave. The Possessed are the extreme body modification masochists. The Havocs love making things explode. I have a converted Fabius Bile mini that resembles Pinhead from Hellraiser.
For new unit design I could imagine: a flame based squad of pyromaniacs (extra eyes to appreciate the pretty colors?), Bikers who crave speed, Noise Marines with different instruments (they could all function as Sonic Blasters.), a scout/recon unit that takes information from the enemy by eating them and really savors the process (large toothy mouths with extended tongues) perhaps they fashion cloaks from the skin of their victims.
These aspects of excess can be represented in a PG-13 fashion so parents won't see the models as worse than "regular" Chaos Marines.
Speed bikers sounds like a really interesting idea, that one is going to be saved in the pile we have of feedback which we wish we thought of
This is really cool as a video concept
Thank you!! If you liked this one we've got 8 more like this in the Design vs Lore playlist on our channel please check it out! 🤩 ~Sunny
If the Iron Hands had fallen to Slaanesh instead of the Emperor's Children, what would their design aspect be and what are some themes that could be explored with that hypothetical what-if?
Also speaking of "what-ifs", what do you guys think of some of the Alternate Heresies such as the Dornian Heresy, Roboutian Heresy, and Lionel Heresy?
Oh no no no this is bait for me to look like one of those crazy people who has their own version of the Dornian Hersey... Well technically it's called the Lion's Legacy... Nope nope nope you have me doing it
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow lmao
@@ChaseDaOrk3767 Maybe one day I will get into it... but we can hardly get out one video a week especially with our recent sickness maybe once we are ahead I will try convince Sunny to listen to my made ramblings on mic... I mean more than I already do - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Take your time on getting better, best of luck of you two.
Also incase if you're still interested in looking into reading up on those Alternate Heresies, I can give out a few recommendations
@@ChaseDaOrk3767 Sure hit us with those recommendations! I am a media sponge and so is Sunny to a degree - Cal
Huh, lots of thought went into legions-first founding chapters when GW worked on them it seems
I think they put of retrospective effort in when they did the Horus Hersey stuff. But most of their colour stuff is pretty good - Cal
I like your ideas for redesign, but maybe not fully the execution?
"Eyes guy" could be confused with worshippers of Tzeentch (both Thousand Sons Marines and demons), because many units of them have multiple eyes, most likely bird ones. On the other hand, bug eyes are often design element of Nurgle minis. I think that some sort of spider eyes (black unblinking orbs) would work better.
Devourers should have monstrous gaping mouth, and also maybe some sort of feelers/whiskers/antennas? Or snake tongues.
I think you missed one big design clue with their character called Fabius Bile, also known as "The Spider". Yeah, style them after creepy crawlies! In fact, Fabius miniature is peak EC design - crazy surgeon obsessed with perfectionism (he even made several clones of few Primarchs, including his own Primarch Fulgrim) and wearing pimp-cloak made from other, "lesser" people.
There are a lot of things that cross over the gods I mean having tentacles is Nurgle, Slannesh and Tzeentch's thing. But the Spider eyes is a good idea, plus spiders already have lots of eyes does work quite a bit.
We avoid talking about prominate individuals when talking about the legion because we believed that, that would take a lot away from the legion and make it more about them. Like in the first Legion one we almost didn't mention the Lion except the change in uniforms. Because its the Legion as a whole - Cal
Loving these videos but if I should give some unsolicited feedback it would be to easy up with the switching back and forth every sentence. It's break up the flow and takes more energy to listen to
Now that I watched it, I think this is a great analysis, especially with ideas for new units. That's what I also see as hugely underrepresented - it's doesn't need to be only sexual, I would go as far as saying that it doesn't have to be sexual at all.
All space marines are able to gather memories and feelings from the devoured brain tissue, and there even are space marines that are practicing ritualistic cannibalism, from just drinking blood as blood angels do, to full on genociding the civilians for the feast (sons of malice before being excommunicated). Playing on this trope would be on point, Hannibal Lector style. Regular food doesn't do anything for them, so they devour the enemy soldiers.
Same goes with vision-based unit idea. Space Marines are more perceptive than regular humans, they might as well be looking for their victims. Snipers might also be a good idea, seeing themselves as artists, who use rifles as artist uses his brush. For some reason, I think both recon and ranged units might be a good fit for vision-based unit.
Noise marines already got sound and hearing side of things covered, so I guess that already works. I would, lol, add more instruments I guess. Why only sonic blasters, sonic jaw implants and sometimes guitar guns, when we can have sonic drums, sonic keyboards, sonic everything? It sounds ridiculous but I kind of fits I guess? I mean, sisters of battle already have a freaking church organ shooting rockets.
What I'd like to add, they have very *heavy* BDSM overtones, which comes with its' own cultural baggage. You didn't miss that per se, but I think that was the central idea of their design, well at least during the older era of 40k. And that would also play perfectly with the unit idea of the "feelers", to have a tank-role represented. They actively look for pain and actively attract it to receive warped sense of pleasure.
Yeah your not wrong about the adult thing with the B and the S and the Ms ha ha ha, that's why I laughed so hard when Sunny said His straight out an adult store. A few people have talked about the sniper idea, but I thought they would lack the focus for that, because I mean zero in on one thing would offend Slannesh when you can look at everything all the time! But it could be interesting the idea of a sniper artist but there would have to be some draw back rule wise to them firing because they want the perfect artistic shot.
Anyway thank you so much for the comment we are really going to have to do a feedback one for everything that people have said thus far! - Cal
It's really nice to hear your passion and ideas on this topic like Cal said we should do the feedback video with what everyone has recommended ~Sunny
I mean technically all the chaos gods are some form of excess
Gluttony and sloth already sticks to nurgle
Wrath already firmly is within the conception of khorne
Absurd complexity, greed and pride already fits with tzeench
Slannesh feels less like the lord of excess but rather feels more like the lord of debauchery.
All of chaos is degeneration, but slannesh strongly embodies debased and debaucherous behaviour.
Well that's why many of them see him her it as a threat because I remember reading about just that with the wrath part with Khorne how that can give Slannesh power - Cal
I paint mine with a custom colour. I prefer them having a blue-scale purple, instead of the red-scale purples that gw makes.
Nice - Cal
I wonder if when they do legions like the blood angels who pre primarch had a drastically different color scheme than there post primarch scheme and it’s meanings
Just going to have to stick around till then... We will make sure to make entertaining content between each one 💪 - Cal
40k noob here, but would it be possible for a Necron Flayer to fall to Slaanesh in a similar fashion to the Noise Marines? My idea... It could literally be a drum machine. It's always trying to find the perfect snare sound (impossible). Uses drumstick like weapons and takes the flesh to make drums. Has an ability called "Blast Beats." D'ktor Aavlinch would be it's name, a nod to Sisters of Mercy's drum machine (Doktor Avalanche).
Lore is quite conflicted here.
People had been speculating for years about whether or not can a necron permanently kill Lucius the Eternal (which basically possesses anyone who felt pride for besting him in combat, the reasoning was that necrons are automatons and don't have souls or real sense of pride) until it was confirmed that no, he can't, because pride felt by a program still counts.
Which is extremely weird, because otherwise necrons are extremely devoid of anything warp-related.
The bottom line is - as long as it's cool and doesn't break the rules, do whatever you want, it's your minis.
@@MrFiremagnet I mean.. plot macguffin can easily fix the lack of warp in them lol
As Jes Goodwin already mentioned with his designs of the Ultramarines: The influence is CLASSICAL. Not Greek, not Roman.
Classical refers to Greek... do you mean something else? - Cal
My emperors children are warlock purple and gold with black plumes and horns some black, silver and pink tossed in on some details. Glowing green or blazing orange eyes and pink flesh
Very colourful! - Cal
I agree more with Sunny here, the Lore has slaanesh being incepted because of sex drugs and rock and roll. Having her as god of excess makes
little sense to me as all Chaos Gods are inherently excessive.
All Chaos gods are inherently excessive that's why they saw Slannesh as a threat because it could take from them all - Cal
i think with slaanesh the "excess" can be taken to mean sensory and experiential excess rather than simply every kind of excess. that's only one of the dark prince's wheelhouses anyway, he's also the god of pleasure, pain, obsession & decadence so there's a very clear delineation between him and the other 3 major gods. however, as cal says, slaanesh can also feed off of devotees of his rivals, just not exactly in the manner he suggests. for example, when a khornate cultist feels satisfaction after a kill, or a tzeentchian sorcerer obsesses over the machinations of the lord of change
chaos space marine backpack is for moving in the void
its not the same as you correct her wrongly
That makes sense I suppose purpose wise, but knowing that fact now, I still think conceptually it just seems like a way to make the powerpacks look more chaos like because functionally speaking this design doesn't show how it's designed to move through the void ~Sunny
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow yes of course it was a very arbitrary decision to make them look different. it was just hard to watch you correct her when she was on the right track conceptually
@@alanmacdonald1457 Sunny is the she, we do state our names at the start of the video, that was Sunny talking to you thus the signature at the end - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow i was just referring to the "she" in the video, i didnt think about if i was talking to a man or a woman
@@alanmacdonald1457 You told "her" Sunny, that she was wrong just then... and that it was wrong to correct "her" when she just respond to you. "it was just hard to watch you correct her" - Cal
Not roman not greek.......it is macedonian purple Alejandro Magno colors
Spot on here. Alexander the Great was known to wear a purple cloak every day with a white sash. Fulgrim's bright white hair calls that to mind and the excesses of Alexander in his later years parallels the fall of the Emperor's Children.
@@christang4933 yep buddy 😉
I love this episode but completely wrong about Slaanesh being wholistically a representation of ALL FORMS of excess. The Choas gods do not directly match the seven sins even in a sanitized form as the causes of those Sins are just as important as the sin itself. Excess is indeed an action that can take many forms but Slaanesh and directly to Emperor's Children, it is their pride and desire to be the best that allowed EC to separate itself from other Slannesh influence unit/armies from across the games workshop universe.
I can go into this a deeper but I can use your new unit concepts as an example of how the "excess for all" theme of an EC army doesn't work and really tramples over the other Chaos gods. The crawling scout marine. very cool concept but the reason for a Marine to do such a thing is not in the pursuit of perfect or excess but for knowledge. It is very Tzeentch and really could fit into a Thousand Sons army. The Devourer is a good concept with Feel, but the smell goes very much Nurgle and you even mention how it could be simple the "Great Clean One". The Feeler is a fantastic theme but your idea just feels like a Plague Marine who WANTS to feel the plague and disease instead of not being able to feel it.
I think the main focus of personal improvement, Pride and personal excess toward those ideas is a fantastic take of that chaos gods and separates EC from the Hedonites in a very great way. Also, you forget the some of these directly added to the astartes of the Emporer's Children but some of the Cult worshippers.
I would disagree because we see them pushing for excess in many fields and there is no 'perfection' in the noise marines they are just crank sound to 110% and go hog wild. The reason why Slannesh was a threat to the other gods was because of his/her need for excess, it does trample on the toes of the other gods and there is a bit of that in the lore. But its okay to have disagreements, people will have different perspectives on things. Thanks for watching and I hope even though we disagree you found the content entertaining - Cal
I can see what you mean, glad you enjoyed the video anyway! ~Sunny
The greatest legion
Adult Store lol. SPOT ON!
Why do you think I laughed so hard? - Cal
looks like I nailed it 😏✨ ~Sunny
No. Wordbearers were the first to fall, but otherwise great. :)
First numbered legion is what I said, so like if we are counting by legion number no who fell first, we make these videos in the order of the numbers - Cal
@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Gotcha. I understood you wrong then. :) Apologies
All G
Your redesign would be rubbish, let's face it nipples look better than eyes. The other gods and their legions are more like forces of nature where Slaanesh had to be born. It's a god of ego, some are perfection and others go down a body horror hell raiser path. After the HH they split up in small groups and were never unified to the degree other legions might maintain. They can't be a normal let's not offend anyone glory boys fraction, they are cool because their ideal is heresy. There's no brotherhood behind them, the main commanders were probably happy their primarch was gone, the rest of them never seemed to of care that Fulgrim wasn't around either, they don't really seem to suffer like Dark Eldar do when there's no pleasure to be had. They enjoy been naughty and tolerate those that share a similar passion. There's no deep philosophy behind there madness. They are the perfection of Chaos
Got it nipple eyes would be better - Cal
Its not a tabard
I'll bite what silly name is it then?
stick to painting lil bro....
Well most people disagree with you so want to add to your quip?