SPACE MARINE VERSUS | Astartes Anonymous Podcast #14
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
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00:00 Intro
04:54 Models of the Week
11:10 The Prompt
12:29 The Doom Slayer VS Malum Caedo
29:04 The Master Chief VS Cato Sicarius
48:30 Darth Vader VS Chief Librarian Tigurius
01:04:56 Outro
01:05:45 A Message From Tom
Intro/Outro Music By georgeNrat 
Игры
Doom Slayer: *sees Caedo* "My son, I am so proud."
dad?
You ever seen that picture with Dante, Doom slayer and Draigo standing side by side? With Dante and Draigo grinning like idiots and Doom guy being Doom guy?
@@jellydamgood Ya
Malum Caedo: *Irate Screaming*
Dude if you translate malum caedo's name into English you get evil slaughter
39:51 I'm gonna be "that guy", but Jorge actually says "Ma'am", not "mom". I didn't know this for 10+ years until I replayed Reach on PC with subtitles turned on xD
34:41 to the point on Spartan2 processing time: master chief wakes up from his upgrade surgery and gets freaked out by what he thinks is messed up time. So he goes to the gym, throws a weight around in the spin gravity environment, does the calculus, and realizes 'oh, I have just gotten very fast!'
Of course a Brit would figure out that the best use for human skin is an umbrella.
Malum Caedo: “SLAYER! You son of a bitch!!”
MC and DS: *[PREDATOR HANDSHAKE]*
"I Cato Sicarius shall end every enemy that stands before me, because I Cato Sicarius, perfected every aspect of warfare and mastered it to such an extend that Only the Emperor himself, is superior to me"
I CAST FIST
Canonically, Doom Slayer has the cheat codes on at all times
Doodslayer has killed a litteral Satan
You guys handle this far better than even Rooster Teeth's Death Battle does. I appriciate that.
Related; Chief wins his fight with Sicarius because Sicarius has his "I, Cato Sicarius" bit whereas Chief just rolls in with the Warthog Run music from Halo 3 blaring at ear-rape level via Grappleshot and starts beating on him.
Jorge calls Halsey "ma'am" inside Sword Base, its just that his accent is so thick that it sounds like "mom".
I remember that being a HUGE controversy in the community when Reach came out.
You forget one of the most important detail that solidifies Malum as the strongest among all of these characters: he’s a canon named ultramarine
Master Chief only survived from space due to his armour. It's even mentioned in the game.
Start of video was pure comedy in 40k style, perfect
most of the spartans IIs were better than the master chief in some category. what made him special is he was exceptionally well rounded with no deficits in any category and he was CONSISTENTLY LUCKY.
Another thing people dont talk about with an unarmed fight is that the energy shields are slippery so grappling may not be an option.
So is Master Chief basically a Thunder Warrior with a Custodian's brain?
In a nutshell
I agree Chief's main limitation is the fact UNSC weapons are underpowered due to most rifles using current day NATO rounds. Give him the more exotic armoury of say Halo 4/5 (especially the stuff they added in 5's warzone that stuff is wacky) or give him access to the imperium's arsenal and Cato is very much on the back foot as I think Cato would likely underestimate Chief.
Though personally I'd say Linda-058 would much more likely to kill Cato personally. Basically the perfect Spartan 2 lone operative who would be able to put sniper shots into the helmet eye lenes.
Unfortunately Cato's own plot armour combined with the plot armour mutation of the Ultramarines geneseed would far exceed that of The Master chief.
Why do we assume he'd let himself get shot?, he's fought necrons, you don't survive getting shot by any necron.
@@thepoliticalgunnut8018Chiefs plot armour is his Luck. His plot armour is so powerful it's known about in Canon
I will say this now. my mom had stage four caner twice and survived. Cancer isn't a vulgar word, just an illness. it's okay for people to say. If people act like it's taboo to talk about, that's how people with cancer die. Not telling anyone or admitting it to themselves.
Hey man, thanks for this comment - I really appreciate it.
My words during that segment were intentional because my own mother had stage four cancer last year and did not survive. Whilst I was indeed involved in the humour, I felt as though someone else who maybe felt how I felt during that time would've liked the small courtesy. - Tom
My stance is that a Spartan and an Astartes have comparable aiming skill and reaction times, a *slight* strength and size advantage for Astartes, a slight mobility advantage for Spartans with thruster packs, and major advantages for Astartes in durability, stamina, standard weaponry, combat experience, and overall longevity.
Astartes are known to still be combat capable even when cut in half. Spartans can lose limbs and keep fighting, but they lack the absurdly quick healing and organ redundancies to shrug off potentially fatal wounds like Astartes do.
An MA5B ain't doing diddly to Astartes warplate. But give a Spartan a bolter and things get decidedly more evenly matched at range.
Overall, I'd have to give it to the Astartes. 6:4 at range (assuming equalized weapons), 7:3 in melee. Much as I prefer the Chief as a hero over any brainwashed murderous roid-raging zealot.
I’m positively quivering with excitement, I’m going to hold my Fulgrim body pillow extra tight for this episode.
Corrupt or normal Fulgrim?
( ಠ' ʖ̯ 'ಠ)>⌐■-■
I bought it from a rouge trader back in M31,001
@@Cato_Sicarius_the_glorious Ah yes, nothing heretical, carry on with your actions
I didn’t expect some kind of imperial inquisition
Master Chief with his best weapons would *obliterate* Sicarius. Thunder Hammer and Energy Sword are one, but Spartan Laser? Man portable Lascannon. Incineration Cannon? Plasma Cannon. Binary Rifle? Doesn't even have an equivalent. The man is lugging around Devastator-scale weapons and still bouncing around like an Assault Marine.
heyu the Hydra is a Bolter for those folks who think it's needed to crack a astartes
Doom guy is the emperor if the emperor decided to kill chaos instead of play with primarchs and making the empire
Half-Life 1 and Halo don't run on variants of OG Doom code, they run on variants of the Quake I engine.
The Quake engine did some things so cleverly and efficiently that most 3D engines these days still have parts of it (or extensions/updates of those parts) buried inside their code to this day.
I don't think any of then would ever fight but in the case of Cato and chief would get along because of the combat record of master chief
I mean. Doomguy at this point can easily fold almost half the Primarchs, and has a pretty solid shot against the other half, so that one is at least very easy to call. :D
Well can it beat the Emperor that is the real question.
@@ericmacrae6871they are one and the same
The doomslayer hates the forces of hell so much. He actively uses hell's own tools against it. His armor was forged by the wretch A traitor to the forces of evil. His sword is the crucible. The blade meant to be wielded by the one who commands all the forces of evil. Even without his armor he is literally able to rip a demon posessed human being in half with his bare hands. In fact, some speculate the armor in and of itself is a restraining system meant to keep his anger and strength in check. Because if he doesn't have it in check he will just go mad and start annihilate everybody be they: demon, human, angel, sinner, saint, innocent and the guilty, all Will be turned to nothing but ash and gore. It doesn't matter. without the armor to hold him in check. He is just a living entity of absolute obliteration.
When you encounter the first imp in doom 2016 It isn't screaming at you in rage. It is screaming at you in absolute abject Terror because it knows what you are. It knows what you have done and it knows what you are capable of doing and what you are most likely going to do to it. So it is absolutely genuinely afraid for its little pathetic Life.
I have to give the win to doom slayer.
Yeahhhhhh in lore doom guy is stated to be like a Omni/multiversal threat or something insane like that so honestly he can probably take all of them at once
Edit: Malum is legit hitting the Doom guy pose from doom eternals front cover, he’s inspired by great power😂
Even if Master Chief is hit by an overcharged plasma bolt, its not goingnto hurt him, itll just take his shield down for a few seconds.
The only thing being the 40k power weapons could be seen closest to the halo Energy Sword.
Also, for their average weapon, MC wouldnt use the Assault Rifle, it would be the Halo 1 Magnum
Isn't the Spartan type pistol? Essentially, just a bolt pistol. like it. Fires exposed to fifty caliber rounds doesn't it?
Yeah I think the swagnum is his icon weapon cause that can f anyone up
Master chiefs armour is made from a titanium alloy right? They have titanium in 40k they just don’t use it because ceramite, adamantium and plasteel are better.
So if master chief can survive being hit by plasma rifle rounds without his shields that means the plasma weapons in halo are not as powerful as the plasma weapons in 40k because it could be argued that his armour is worse then what the space marines wear. Furthermore plasma weapons in 40k leave behind a steaming pile of meat when you get hit by them. From what i have seen plasma weapons in halo only make small holes in civilians and as such i do not think it can be argued that halo plasma weapons are on par with 40k plasma weapons.
Now for the magnum it’s a lower caliber than bolt pistols so while sustained fire might hurt a space marine it’s not really going to do anything major to their armour. Out of armour it might be able to damage an Astartes but they have such insane toughness and healing factors that you would have to double tap one of them to ensure he was dead and i doubt a space marine will stand still long enough for the chief to do that.
No hate for MC or halo but 40k is just out of it’s league
@@JeffGreff his undersuit is woven titanium-a which is a sci-fi alloy not real life titanium. the over-armor is the same material but solid and a lot thicker. theres also a gel layer which is supposed to absorb impacts and energy weapons that get through everything else.
lore-wise a plasma pistol will fry a halo marine in armor just by flying past them and thats the weakest weapon in the covenant arsenal.
@@joshw.2739 i would still argue that Spartan armour is weaker then Astartes armour without the shield (and about equal when you add the shield). Also when you say marine do you mean Spartan, Astartes or regular halo marine?
On a case by case basis, I can see a lot of people surviving for a time in the 40K Universe. When you do faction vs faction is where I think that the home field advantage will come into play because it isn't really faction vs faction so much as it is Your Faction vs Everyone Else. You will either be in a stalemate trading territory or you will be curb stomped for over extending.
I feel like you guys should do a follow up being Factions versus? I would love to see a match up of the Sentients from warframe against the Tyranids since both play off the factor of adaptation.
>Master Chief vs Malum Caedo
>Malum Caedo
>FREAKING MALUM CAEDO
In regards to the Vader-lightsaber-melee-fight:
In the Salamanders novel trilogy (by Nick Kyme) a Salamanders Sergeant (or Lt, definitely high ranking guy) gets both his hands cut off by a Dark Eldar duelist. The Astartes does not give a fuck and proceeds to try and headbutt and bite for the rest of the fight! Vader hasn't met droids **this** aggressively rabid!
vader vs tigerius depends on if the force can go through shielding that blocks warp magic. the force is the ability to manipulate energies and molecules that build items and life, if that can go through any warp resistant stuff tigerius is probably dead on the spot when vader sees him, just thinks about his windpipe crushing or his neck snapping and it will. also for a fist fight Jedi/Sith also have powerful punches we have seen mace windu punch through a super battle droid and vader has metal hands. If the warp magic defences work against the force then Vader dies. if it doesnt vader wins
Let's not forget Tigirius is a Telepath without equal, like faced down the Tyranid Hivemind kinda bs. I don't think Vader lasts long enough to do that before Tigirius just turns off his brain. But if it's a cqc duel, Tigirius is turbo fucked imo.
Just putting it out there. DoomGuy did legitimately kill not only the devil in his world, but (as explained in the dlc) the legitimate god and creator of all existence. There aint no way that mf loses to a mortal
lol I love how the only person who could possibly be compared to Malum Caedo is the fucking doom slayer, literally master chief and Darth Vader would get bodied by Caedo simply through excess levels of hatred.
Vader is actually scary in hand to hand and he can be very agile
42:33 One thing people forget about Spartan IIs is that with mk V and above armor, they don’t need a gun to kill you. If they can bench press a tank (which they can, Frank O Connor said they can bench press scorpions while in later mjolnir armors) imagine hard hard they can punch you. Installation zero estimated Chief specifically can punch with a bare minimum 273 tons.
Not really. Spartan armor enhances the wearer by 2.5 to 5 times depending on the suit their wearing. Spartans can lift 3 times their body weight unarmored, and weigh over 300 pounds, so about 1000 pounds. That makes them able to to lift 1.5 to up to 3 tons. Thats strong but no where near bench pressing a 66 ton tank level. If they were that strong, they would be able to snap brutes in half like twigs. Their suits wouldn't even be to stop themselves ripping apart from the sheer force of every action they would take.
@@voomvoom4522 Something I’d like to say about their recorded out of armor feats. They we all 14 and just had the most grueling, body breaking, and invasive surgery that any human could bear. They didn’t have time to fully acclamate to their new bodies, they were still recovering from the worst surgery in human hsitory, and they weren’t fully developed physically. And for the detail about benching a scorpion, that was from Frank O Connor.
Unfortunately, a lot of it is left to speculation and theory craft because of the information we’re providing with. But a good few Halo nerds will agree that many people sell the Spartans short, especially the Spartan IIs.
@@ThatOneAudioTeam The thing is, the lifting 3 times their body weight stat was done using their ADULT weight. Maybe once they reach full maturity their strength increases to 4 or even 5 times their weight, thats still no where near strong enough to lift a Scorpion. We also have to differentiate between what a character is saying as estimation or just plain exaggeration, and what should be taken as absolute gospel.
@@voomvoom4522 Frank O Connor isn’t a character, he’s one of Halo’s creators… He was with the series for 20 years.
And these feats of strength are done while in the Mjolnir armor, Mk VI at the least if memory serves right. And yes, they were at their adult weight. *At age 14.* At age 14 they were already built better than Olympic champions.
Obviously it would be insane if they could do this out of armor, but they don’t. Their strength is multiplied by their armor, and each new MK of Mjolnir armor multiplys off the previous one. But this only really gets crazy with MK V and above. MK IV was pretty tame, and was fairly generic in terms of feats-but it did look sexy.
But yeah, my bad for not specifying that the scorpion bench feat would have been done in armor.
AW MAN if Malum Caedo for some reason appears in Space Marine 2, imma be so hyped seeing my boy Titus and him. They can both kick Leandros ass for being a wuss.
>We’re going to be objective and impartial in our powerscaling analysis
[an hour later]
>seems like the 40k characters won every time, truly our universe is the best
Well, master chief is basically a green baret with a super suit. Spece Mawines *are* a wee bit more enhanced than just *suit*
@@OvercutHood they also have 20mm AUTOCANNONS, that may have helped.
Let’s take the greatest spacemarines alive currently and their all ultramarines
"after all the greatest of them all are the ultramarines"
This video idea could go on for so long, if custodes, primarchs and other characters are included.
I think Ezekiel of the Dark Angels would have been a better match for Vader. They both have archaic life support/augmentics systems. Also Ezekiel being a firstborn in power armor would be more of an even footing compared to the terminator armor of Tigurius. Just my opinion though, and it may be biased since I am a Dark Angel player.
I think in terms of the Doomguy vs Malum Caedo and the Master Chief vs Cato Sicarius fights is that Doomguy and Master Chief have better chance at winning on the grounds of them having access to plasma weapons that don't have a chance to blow up from continued use (Doom guy definitely, but I am unsure if there have been record of any plasma weapons in Halo that exploded from just continued fire since they vent)
As for the Covenant plasma weapons, you CAN overload them like a plasma weapon in Warhammer 40k, however it's a deliberate choice to do so. They don't normally just explode.
Yeee, Halo Plasma weapons probably could explode, but it's built in to momentarily disable the weapon and allow for heat dissipation instead of letting the weapon get to the point it would explode
It is I, Cato Sicarius, former captain of the Ultramarines 2nd Company and current commander of the Victrix Honour Guard, Master of the Watch, Knight Champion of Macragge, Grand Duke of Talassar and High Suzerain of Ultramar. I, Cato Sicarius, would be able to take on any challenge presented to me and I, Cato Sicarius, would triumph above any adversary in the name of my Primarch, my Chapter Master and the almighty God-Emperor of Mankind, for I, Cato Sicarius, am his greatest champion.
Finally, an AA meeting I am willing to attend.
I need to see a Brute Chieftain or a Hunter in a hand to hand fight with a Terminator now lmao
the Hunter would crush the terminator the wight 5 tons and are 13-16 ft tall
@@Ari0163 thats hard cap your honor
@@lokikinch Nuh-Uh
Technically....The Slayer has killed his universe's equivalent of Khorne...so idk how to even scale these characters. I simply can't see any 40K characters managing to kill an actual chaos god.
They were so hard on doomguy like he could honestly step to and give the emperor a run for his money
5 seconds in, and Papa Nurgle has already blessed us.
How is every episode an absolute banger?
❤
Doom guy vs kaldor drago
Even Drago can’t kill Khorne
But Doom Slayer did kill his equivalent
I'm still watching.
I don't know much about war hammer that's why I watch.
(Also gotta leave a comment for the RUclips algorithm gods)
I am a Warhammer and Star War fan. I have to say that this is the most fair analysis across those different universe. Usually i see people underestimate the warhammer universe.
Before i say my bit about Darth Vader. I want to say something that is important about Master Chief. He was describe as the luckiest spartan that has ever existed. The reason that he survive that fall from orbit wasnt because he was tough for doing so. Nope it was just luck . The game made it very clear that was the only reason that he survived. Beside that great analist
As for Darth Vader, as much as i loved that character even in legend i don't think he can win. Here is my reasoning he wouldn’t be able to counter a space marine strength, speed and reactions speed. Sure he has a bit of foresight and he has crazy force feat strength. But he doesnt have the versatility that a librarian would offer.
On account of multiple other spartans sustaining similar falls from orbit, i feel like chief’s fall is less luck in that regard, also considering advancemets between say the mark V[b] noble 6 was wearing, and chief’s mark VI in halo 3
@charles-vi7qb good point but we still need to take account about his luck. Something that these guys haven't talk about
@@ericmacrae6871 well in what aspects would you say that his luck could affect the perception of his ability to perform in combat?
@charles-vi7qb before I answer you do know how lucky this guy is?
@@ericmacrae6871 yes
Good topic for a podcast
I will be disappointed if goku isn’t here.
Why TF they should talking about that monkey
You should do a video where you find unlikly fictional characters and pit them against spacemarines.
I wanna see a space marine fight kirby
I mean, if we're talking the best space marines, I really don't think the Master chief is going to beat Sigismund
if we're talking fictional matchups Tyberos the Red Wake vs Halo Wars 2 The Banished
Like Tyberos soloing the Banished? Cause the Banished isn't a character, its a faction.
Master chef is average among the spartans 2 the only thing that sets him apart from other spartan 2 is his insane luck
You're wrong he's above average for a spartan 2 defend that makes them extremely different from everyone else is his luck because he's not the best in any other category besides lock
It's more that he's the best all rounder
Every Spartan 2 that specialises would be a 10 in their favourite fields and a 7-8 in everything else.
Most all rounder Spartans are an 8 in everything while chief is a 9 in everything.
if chief has his strongest weapons, he has a spartan laser, and that could strait up one shot a space marine. Also noble six is, canonically, on the same level as chief, being the only other spartan to have the classification of hyper-leathal vector.
You talk like space marine don't have something stronger than that
Wait you think the chief has stronger weapons than space marines 😆
@@DeadBattleBrother15 i don’t think space marines cope very well with the equivalent of a slightly more sustained las cannon blast to the chest regardless of if they have a more powerful weapon or not
no, the spartan laser is roughly equivlant to a las cannon, and some covie weapons are alagous to say plasma or rad weapon, but normal human weapons no.@@robainsworth2014
Couldn't SMs just pull out a lascannon and do the exact same thing?
Speaking of skin You guys know of that japanese guy who collected the tattoed skins of dead yakuza aint that cool
A true night lord fan
You talked at length about the two power armor wearing video game characters Master Chief and Doomslayer yet Samus Aran from Metroid wasn't mentioned. Odd, Master Chief, Doomslayer and Samus are often paired together in fan art. If you all were to talk about Samus at some point in a versus style like in this video I'm not sure who'd she'd go up against... except maybe the 40K daemon also called Samus. Samus Aran's whole thing is that she fights the good fight so the daemon Samus is absolutely the kind of monster that Samus Aran would hunt down.
Mustard Beef!?
-TheRussianBadger
30:13 of course the Night Lord says that
Spartan III's are definitely not weaker than Spartan II's, that's unfortunately just their reputation due to the nature of their deployments. They were deployed on the most dangerous missions with inferior equipment compared to their predecessors, and suffered near 100% casualty rates, but they still accomplished the mission. Give them enough time to acclimate to their augmentations (most died while they were still teenagers and not at their full potential) and some proper Mjolnir armor and they're just as effective as their older siblings. You could almost say they're the Iron Warriors of the Spartans. Extremely effective, but treated as expendable because you can make more of them.
They objectively have worse augmentions and training than II's. They are smaller, physically weaker and slower than II's.
@@SparseS17 Why are their augmentations worse? Because they're cheaper and safer? People seem to be under the assumption that because the S-III program transitioned to less dangerous and invasive augmentations that didn't make them as tall, they were inferior, but I haven't seen any official literature saying that they were weaker.
Training wise, they were indeed trained over a shorter period of time, but they were also trained *by a Spartan II,* which I'd argue is better than Mendez's training.
@@SparseS17 Ok, there's a bit wrong there. Their augmentations were actually BETTER as they got similar results but were far safer. The biggest difference was the genetic requirements, which were loosened to get more recruits. That would mean that IIs would have an edge in some way physically but the IIIs were so close to them that you really can't say whose better. Plus, some the IIIs matched the genetic standards of the IIs and others got experimental augmentations or drug treatments to boost their performance, which really muddies the waters. You're also comparing full adults (IIs) to teenagers (IIIs) for the most part.
As for training, their's was HARDER than what the IIs received, due to having less time to train. Kurt-051 built their training from the ground up based on he had gone through as a II and for the kind of missions they would be sent on. Plus, he had Mendez come on as his aid. Kurt also accounted for the fact the IIIs have something the IIs didn't: motivation. The IIIs were unbreakable mentally and completely willing to fight last man against suicidal odds.
You make it sound like the IIIs were inferior to the IIs. Yet, they accomplished missions that were deemed so crazy that even the IIs in Mjolnir would have not come back from despite being younger and having worse equipment.
1:04:39 he cant block lightnings at least in canon. Also not every jedi can block it. It ia a very rare ability wich only the most powerful jedi can use. Dooku was really impresst when yoda blockt his lightning.
Counterargument for fistfight: Varro pissed himself over Zoans and Terminator armor dies to average of one volley of 20 flashlights doing concentrated (both in lore, tho judged of chaos infused sorc termi rather than toiletboyscouts, and for once on tabletop). Also the man keeps triggering perils in narrative moments as if he needs a 6 to cast anything.
Vader cheated to out-kickbox a a imperial knight stolen by rebels (with even worse design once physics are accounted) for and dueled his way out of 60+ troops, 3 carriers and a tank (which isnt legends, it remained mainline canon); technically he does have the force fear aura around him (not that it should matter, but if one treats force = warp maybe could factor; still cheating tho).
Vader still dies to the lighting zap, but by the time it finishes frying him, the Rod of Tigurius is cut apart in bits on the floor having already fallen out of a dead nerds hands a few minutes prior.
But then, you could argue its Disney vader, not canon (KOTOR info+legends) Vader, in which case comedy ensues as "(w)HORUS SOMEHOW RETURNED!"
Games work need to explain why ultramarines have a librarian who can connect with hive mind (Tigirius) , a space marine who can take warp explosion like nothing(Titus) and Maelum Caedo who is built differently 😂
How this 3 giga Chad's have the same pool geene of exel prime.
Because the Ultramarines are blessed by a greater power.
The one
The only
SPIRITUAL LIEGE!
@@SymbioteMullet I think they are blessed by the Chaos god Matt Ward. XD
Hope I'm not late to say this but Jorge doesn't say mom. The script has him saying ma'am. Jorge has a British accent and when he says ma'am it sounds like him saying mom. So while Catherine sort of saw herself as the mother, the Spartans... Well some kinda saw it like that. It's harder to explain, almost like a guardian figure but not like in a mother way. But maybe less or more with some Spartans depending on who we talking
Would love to see Satoru Gojo vs Ahriman
That battle would just delete tzeench because he got so horny that slannesh ate him
ahriman vs dr manhattan
@@Gm-ce5kg well come on, give poor Ahriman a chance.
Jorge didn’t call Halsey his mom. He just said Ma’am but his accent came off as “mum”. Also obligatory F in chat for Jorge. I’ll put my nerd glasses down now.
I adore both doom and war hammer lore so the best way I can put what doom slayer is in terms of what happened is this: imagine the god emperor found caedo after he had already killed all those demons and then proceeded to make him a honorary member of the castodes(don’t know if I spelled that right) then later infused him with the essence of Kharn after kharn had killed all the other chaos gods and absorbed their power, and instead of turning into a demon prince caedo had turned into a brand new chaos god that fights solely for humanity then proceeds to kill this(hypothetical)super kharn and on the way to do it killed every demon prince sanguines the emperor himself and whoever the hell else got in his way
That’s the doom slayer
On space marines vs Spartans, here’s an argument I’ve had lying around:
Spartan 2s are about equal to Firstborn Astartes in speed (reaction speed included) but are slightly behind when it comes to strength, and are severely lacking in the durability department. Astartes armor (without any extra iron halo shielding) can easily take five or more bolter rounds, whereas spartan shields can only take one (maybe two) rounds of a halo bolter equivalent, and the actual armor can only take like one shot.
On a biological level, Spartans cannot take as much damage as Astartes can, they simply lack the geneseed implants that allow Astartes to survive loosing a heart, most of their organs, etc. This means that Spartan 2s are more on par with Astartes Initiates/Scouts who have similar strength and speed feats, but lack the survivability that comes with being a full-blown Astartes.
On top of that, the standard Spartan weapons, a BR75 battle rifle and M6D pistol, are far more comparable to basic Imperial Guard issue stubbers, which most Astartes are bullet-resistant to *even without armor.*. By contrast, a standard Bolter could end a Spartan 2 in between 2 and 4 shots, shields and armor included.
Any other weapon that you can give a Spartan, Astartes have equivalents to, heck an Astartes plasma pistol is equal to an Emperor-damned spartan laser, if not more effective, so trying to add in rarer types of weapons or armor upgrades won't really change things.
Outside of Astartes having far better baseline durability, the Spartan 2 is lacking in perhaps the most crucial equalizer against opponents with better stats... experience. Your standard (non-veteran) Firstborn Astartes has anywhere between 20 and 50 years of actual combat experience, whereas most S2s do not have nearly that much experience, and this doesn't even touch on the variety of enemies that Marines end up fighting.
This experience combined with their well-rounded strength, speed, and durability puts firstborn astartes well ahead of Spartan 2s.
Here is a space marine respect thread that has sources for all of the feats:
www.reddit.com/r/Thevexarecool/comments/gtstyv/respect_space_marines_warhammer_40k/
and here is a link to easily 20 space battle debate threads that have come to the same conclusion: forums.spacebattles.com/threads/ultramarine-vs-spartan-who-wins.632056/post-45853312
But it's Master Chief, he is build different
@@Hoxinator So is maleum caedo, taking out multiple greater daemons without any psykic abilities is something even custodes struggle with.
MC and other S2s got trained from 6 years of age to be soldiers. Speak again about experience? And again on lack of experience: The HALO universe isn't done yet. MC can still go on for decades more.
Moreover, you don't think that Spartan 2 armour is more advanced? Ok sure let's argue it's less durable (but can take a few plasma bolts). The motion tracker, vacuum seal (can survive in space for a bit), can hold an A.I, MC canonically ran 60mph + before (and he isn't even the fastest Spartan).
@@themc.kennyshow6585 my point is that 6 years of training does not equal upwards of 30 years of combat experience against the galaxy’s worst horrors. My point isn’t to compare how long the characters could live for (which is moot because there are 1000 year-old Astartes), but rather how much experience a standard S2 and Astartes would start out with and bring to the table.
@@themc.kennyshow6585 didn’t see the bit about Spartan armor so I’m responding to that bit here:
I do think Spartan armor is more advanced than Astartes armor, but not in a way that would give the s2 an advantage. Spartan armor is more durable than space marine armor *if the energy shield has time to regenerate*, and it can house an AI, but that’s about it. Astartes in power armor can survive in space almost indefinitely, and their helmets also have “auto-senses” that include various range finders, targeting reticules, etc, that only increase the superhuman senses of the Astartes. on top of that, the black carapace augmentation in all Astartes allows them to connect with the armor and treat it like a second skin, activating, adjusting, or deactivating power regulations and said auto senses with mere thoughts. Though Astartes have slightly slower run speeds than the Spartans (can run 40-50 mph middle end feats), this black carapace allows their reaction speeds to essentially match or even exceed the bullet-timing of the Spartans. In short, Spartan 2 Mjolnir armor has certain differences and one or two advancements over space marine power armor, but most of those are negligible.
I think Ahriman would turn him into dust instead...
On the subject of Spartan weapons vs. Astartes weapons...
There aren't really any Spartan weapons. Master Chief is out here soloing the Covenant and Banish with the Halo equivalent of Imperial Lasguns, until he finds a better weapon. Spartans would become a massive threat to Astartes as soon as they pick up a bolter.
Another point I’d like to add to debunk the whole “imperial plasma guns explode so their unreliable” argument is that belesaruis cawl created the mk3 cawl pattern plasma incinerator which has a saftey mechanism that makes overheating impossible unless the mechanism is removed further more a bolter isn’t the only op weapon Cato can used to make short work of chief a meltagun would oneshot him easily
Force stave should be able to stand up to a lightsaber, there's various 'shielded staff' weapons in star wars, and a big part of the reason they exist is as an anti-lightsaber weapon.
Not saying vader would for-sure win, but he could just choke him out or crush his organs into mush with the force, or even just force-crush the armor like a soda can.
I do agree that master chief is a different breed.
Another issue to consider, when comparing the short story terminal velocity, is the celestial body in question.
Was this planet larger than earth? If so the space marine would be falling faster than chief due to the increase in planetary mass, thus increased gravity.
This information is needed before the falling feat can be given to chief.
The key diferece betwen halo and 40k is the warp , halo is as a hole a sifi franshice and has a copule of weird concepts but for the most part is down to earth compare to 40k, no spanker or spartan lazer holds a candel to the terros of the warp, thats not to say jhon wouldnt hold himslef in th 40k universe but he is at clear disadvantage
Doomguy and Duke Nukem vs Master Chief and the Arbiter vs Vader and Obi-Wan vs Dantioch and Pollux
My hottest date ever was completely ruined by episode 8 screening too
I love how wide the astartes drawing is
Hear me out: Spartan Psykers!!!!!!!!!!!
Let him cook
What about Adam Jensen form Deus Ex versus a infiltrator space marine?
19:29 um, shouldn’t that be related to a corruption of a castigator Titan?!
I would like to point out that if Vader tried to deflect a bolter round he’d get obliterated by the shrapnel anyway, because in Starwars the best counter to lightsabers are conventional weapons which the bolter is dialled up to 100
He wouldnt even be inconvenienced, (heavy) bolter bolts canonically cant penetrate nor damage bricks from time of ancient rome and europe left after the technobarbarians that were still around the west end of the imperial palace.
And the bolts themselves wouldnt even detonate as they have a impact based timer trigger (or as GW calls it, mass reactive switch which is just a extremely retarded way to say it has a piezometer/counterpressure based piezoelectric trigger with a resistor instead of regular inertia fuze).
55:00 not quite. He lost a lot off midichlorians in episode 3
Doesn't Tigurius have Malcador's staff?
Nicee
Both me and my father discussed this for a hour or two and we came up with some ideas.
First off You gotta scale other things up. A demon baron in doom is only like 12-14 feet tall, and doomguy is still only 6.2 or about that. A normal space marine is 7-8 feet tall, Plus they were about 1000 pounds of space armor. In a melee fight very few can even compete with one. But i will say that doomguy got alot of better weapons. But his armor is not close to the level of a space marine. Halo is a better one because modified humans vs modified humans. But darth vader is one i don't have any say there. My father is alot more 40k leading. But he loses me after most points he says. I stopped talking about this after him saying that kratos wouldn't be able to do alot in 40k... the man who flipped the world tree in 2018 couldn't delete a few marines.
Canonically, in doom 2016, there is a uac journal entry that mentions how despite everything they had tried to damage the predator suit, they just couldn’t, this likely involved the use of the doom plasma rifle as well, which as one might know, space marine power armor is particularly susceptible to
If you mean doomguy & doommarine armor then yes they are worse than space marine armor, if you mean doomslayer armor then his armor is better than most if not all armors in 40k. In term of durability.
@@moonamir9708I mean doomslayer's armour.
@@suemeade2471 then his armor durability surpass most if not all Armors in 40k, literally his armor has not been scratched from physical or melted from plasma, the only way to damage doomslayer was to damage his so much that the damage by pass the armor (even though it doesn't get damaged)& effect doom slayer from the sheer force or heat from the assaults
Doom Barons of hell are actually almost 20 feet tall (standing upright), while tyrants are over 25 feet tall. Doomguy is also canonically 6'8 and weights 350 pounds. Another thing to remember is that Doom demons are ridiculously strong. Even the zombies can take a .50 cal and keep fighting. Imps have skin as tough as iron and bones like steel, stand over 7 feet tall, and can rip people limb from limb with ease. Hell knights can shrug off multiple rockets to the face, and hit hard enough enough to cause shockwaves,. Pinkies can shrug off fire from entire squads and flip over armor vehicles like toys, and titans can singlehandedly destroy planets.
so some of my favorite books where the eric nylund books on halo from fall of reach to first strike and halo 3 is legit my favorite game of all time
spartan 117 John would get smoked he legit almost lost a hand to hand fight with a brute in first strike the only weapon that could punch through a space marine's armor would MAYBE be the sniper rifle which shoots a 14.5mm round or the halo CE magnum almost all his other weapons are mostly 7.62 (aka the standard NATO round we use) or like the spartan laser which with the charge up time would be way too slow
if we're bring in the halo 5 armor and guns he'd definitely have a better chance but my money would be on cato just because he's used to dealing with Tau railguns
also fun halo fact John wasn't the fastest (kelly), best shot (Linda) or even the strongest (Bill) he was just the luckiest. If we're going off speed I'd pull up brotherhood of the snake where a space marine captain was faster than a cabal of dark eldar.
tl;dr I miss flash so I could be my high score on how many Spartans a space marine could kill
Mjolnir gen 3 as seen in halo infinite, with halo 5 unsc ARC-920 hand held rail gun
@@charles-vi7qb honestly probably a 60~40 to Cato I’m just thinking it’s be like a worse shadowsun and again Cato is used to fight railguns since he fought a shitload of tau
@@myonlyfriendtheend4958
except, unlike shadowsun, master chief does still have the raw strength to match a space marine, speed to match a space marine (top running speed for master chief is 60mph, which was observed after deflecting a ATGM missile, and unlike for space marines, does not damage his power armor while sustaining that speed), and likely even durability considering the combination of energy shielding, high quality, spaced titanium plating, both of which have been massively improved with the mjolnir gen 3 platform, which also has the improved hydrostatic gel layer which would help compensate for the concussive blast of bolter fire (of which a unlucky iron hands during the heresy got turned into a soup can by that force alone), chief likely also has the reaction speed and ability to act on it, on par with or even better than a space marine on account of his power armor bypassing the hard limit of how fast electrical impulses can travel along the nervous system due to his brain implant directly interfacing with his suit unlike the black carapace still using the nervous system for that same goal, and the Spartan’s ability for spartan time due to their improved brain functionality as a result of certain augmentations.
Oh yeah also for reference, chief loosing a fist fight with a brute isn’t particularly a sign of weakness; brutes on average have the strength to lift over 70 tons, space marines are commonly quoted as only being able to lift around 2-4 tons at most in power armor; a brute is like a ogryn on steroids laced with cocaine
In 40k during 30k, the same 20mm bolters couldn't break through marine armour except for joints, spartans don't have any chance.
Very cool! Now do a sequel podcast and choose ANYTHING ELSE but frickin Ultramarines!
Facts
Correction Master Chief fell from orbit TWICE in the same suit of orbit
Tbf Darth Vader can use his lightsaber to deflect the lighting and plus he can use Force Lighting it just use a lot of energy or can hurt him
Not muting when coughing was a huge distraction for me 😔
Jesus just look at any lore vid on Spartan armour.
The titanium armour protects against everything but from: hypervelocity bullets, and several plasma shots. More over. Mark 4 armour isn't the same say as Mark 6 which is bomb as hell. Then there's the new Mjoinir Gen 3. Super powerful.
Are the doomed not canon?
I'm not watching this whole thing. But my decent Halo lore knowledge against my very limited 40K fledgling knowledge. I'm saying Chief has a chance but it sure as shit isn't a good one.
Depends, Astartes are more brute force whereas Spartans are precision, something I heard from somebody else is that Astartes are meant to be killing machines whereas Spartans are meant to be Apex Predators, if a Spartan can sneak up on an Astartes they can kill them no problem, however in a direct 1v1 the Astartes has an advantage.
@@_easyconcept Are we talking with armor or without? Because I think lore wise it would be difficult for either one of them to be snuck up on. Since they both have motion trackers built into the suits.
@@psychobeam99 Ignore the motion trackers for this scenario, also when I say snuck up I mean shooting them from a distance, Spartans are usually sent on assassination missions to get rid of important targets so they would be pretty adept at using a sniper.
@@_easyconcept True true. They are quite handy with close quarters weapons like knives as well, but I think the sheer armor any Space Marine is wearing makes that useless so yeah ranged weapons I suppose a SPARTAN could do some damage. Though I think it would heavily depend on caliber. I dont even think the UNSC Snipers 14.5 rounds would pack enough punch. But again Im new to 40K so what their armor can or cant shrug off I dont know.
@@psychobeam99 Depends, the armor of an Astartes depends on the author, but if we are to be realistic then a 50. cal could (presumably) kill them if it was a headshot, I'm not big into guns though so don't take this as fact.
1:02:49 the problem with vader is that he just doesn't uses the force very often when fighting a single opponent. Imo vader would win quite easily in am meele fight, given his lightsaber can cut through ceramite, because he can literally see the future like those thousand sons elite unites or even like Conrad curze.
After having listened to it, you make an excellent point. The thing people get wrong in the comparisons is they think the space marines would EASILY win. It wouldn't be an easily won fight, but space marine > pretty much everything. In the lore comparison, John would have some sort of warp shinanigans about him, due to the fact that he is in-cannon 'Lucky.' As in a scientist has run tests on him and realized he will always win. The writers can make whatever in-universe reason why their character would win. But comparing them rationally, the space marine will always win.
Darth Vader vs Tigiris same kind of thing. Consider the Lightsaber akin to a digital weapon, not a power sword. A power sword is a sword with a disruption field around it. A lightsaber is a looped plasma. The lightsaber would win because it's a plasma cutter with no restriction on a sword inside of it. All well and good. Until you remember that the Sword is there on the inside of a power sword not just because they can't have a looped plasma arc. Remember that the power sword and power fist and power staves are a weapon with a disruption field projected around them because there's stuff in 40k regularly encountered that will get hit with a disruptor field and still need to get slashed, crushed, bashed, etc. They don't parry or block with power swords because the field. The other object just happened to survive. The lightsaber would have the same effect on a power staff as the scene in E1 TPE. It could cut through the blade, slowly, given enough time. But you're not holding it against it. You're in a fight. The gear of the Imperium would be akin to Mandalorian Iron. Also consider the Force as a lighter version or interpretation of the Empyrean. It still leads to corruption and evil, those who use it more often and for worse deeds. Surely not as bad as warp mutations and daemons, but the Force can still lead to some horrific things. Quite a lot to think about.
Yeah but can they beat Goku
Goku can be dropped by a digital laser (return of F), so really a guardsman with a lasgun and the drop on him can win.
@@SymbioteMullet Hey I'm just saying I've never seen any primarchs go saiyan (L)
@@juicenight4642 That's because Saiyans are filthy xenos and need a good swift purging.
@@SymbioteMullet A ray gun of unkown power, that caught him off guard, don't be delusional now
Goku can’t breath in space
What’s a source code?
3 ultramarines vs 3 dudes