Why Do Women Develop Opposite-Sex Friends?
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- Опубликовано: 15 сен 2024
- Dr Tania Reynolds explains why women develop opposite sex friends. Is it possible for men and women to just be friends? Are women cultivating backup mates? Is it an issue for men and women to work together in an office?
#friendships #psychology #dating
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thank you my hearty
I'm glad she said it because it's considered toxic when a male points this out.
Sometimes you just like certain people and they are fun to hang out with and it's as simple as that.
Yeah... I had the time of my life just chilling and sharing common interests, but I can't lie there was this weird slavery element to it. Like, I took care of her, and tbh I don't regret it
but it is dangerous because of the potential to develop feelings, , that you didnt plan on would happen but it did, anytime you are going out with some body because they are fun to be around. Its a red flag and nobody likes it
I do not allow myself to form close friendships with women to avoid developing feelings outside of my control... Getting a partner to have this kind of self-awareness and control is a whole other thing.
I learned this the hard way at work, after nearly 6 months of an instant and close friendship with a woman, she liked me( without literally saying it, women never will ) but I didn't like her but after months I admitted to myself I did and couldn't pretend anymore then she no longer liked me after I said I didn't want anything serious, long story short it was a disaster mentally and emotionally for me and her and still quite uncomfortable when we see each other at work but I just cut all connection for both our sake's, life lesson learned as to why I never had female friends, you are correct
It's possible to be discerning and intentional in the relationships you form. This should be especially true if you are a man living and acting in your power and in line with your truth.
@@brianbadonde8700one bad situation doesn't represent the totally of possibilities
@@sarahfranco6802 I don't have female friends like most men
@@brianbadonde8700 and it's ok. Im just saying that your bad experience doesn't represent the totality of the possible outcomes from male and female friendship. But it's still totally valid
Sexual harassment was a nail sticking up out of the floorboard in our house.
And instead of getting an appropriate hammer and tapping it back in place, society grabbed a sledgehammer and pounded a hole in the floor, and the walls, and the ceiling.
And now we're starting to feel the draft...
this is a needlessly detailed analogy... i love it
Well said.
Funny & profound.
So beautifully written. So true.
Don’t let this happen to you Kings.
Women really want to be treated like an enemy given how they are acting these days.
Yeah they just want attention.
Watch the Post-Feminism Man by bar bar 💪🙏
We appreciate you King
This is as cringe as woman referring to themselves as 'queens'. Lol
I have a good female friend, and I have zero interest in her, and I am sure she has zero interest in me. She provides the emotional support that I don't get to the same level from my male friends. She also helps me with advice when I date someone, as she has some insight I don't have. Usually, if I feel some anxiety regarding a girl I am dating, I can call my friend, and she'll calm me down in no time. She feels more like a sister, so even the thought of doing something with her grosses me out. I do think that there exists a lot of friendships, where one person is probably hoping for a romantic connection, but it is definitely possible to have a legit real friendship between genders.
its rare as hell, this would be an exception assuming you are telling the truth, she may be into you... just knows you aren't
@@James_36 No trust me. She is not into me. We dated shortly 11-12 years ago. While we do have some similarities, we are WAY different in aspects that relates to dating. I am from Denmark though, and I think perhaps the relationships between men and women is a bit different here compared to the US. And of course, I am telling the truth. I never lie. And if someone lied in a comment section to a RUclips video where there is nothing to gain by doing it, I would bet that that person has some psychological issues :)
But I will tell you, your perspective is one I run into all the time when I am online. Weirdly enough, I very rarely run into it in real life. But I know many people who have friendships with the opposite sex, so I think it could be that the culture is different over here.
@@andreasleonhard1512 There are def cultural differences, but I believe those differences are shrinking more and more every day. The world is becoming a small place.
@@SabrinaDacosta who? Me? Or the guy who responded to my post.
@@andreasleonhard1512 the guy who responded to your post I think. I am also from EU and no problem at all having opposite sex friends. This male female "animals who just want to procreate" approach is such an american thing in my view. They put down any inability to behave in a civilsed manner to "evolution".
Easier to manipulate guy "friends" for aid & resources as needed - even if not done on a conscious level.
Just to play devil's advocate, I think even a friend-zoned guy with a girl next to him has higher status as first glance than just a guy who's alone. I'd think it's easier for a guy with a girl next to him to approach groups of women. So guys can wind up with a wider social circle by having female friends (who are disinterested).
@@otomicans6580 A confident guy doesn't need this false "wing man" sitting next to him. So even that perceived benefit isn't much benefit for a man. Bottom line, most women are a net liability as a "friend" because he is usually giving more than he is getting in the friendship.
I keep listening to this channel out of real interest, but I must admit that I often feel like a complete alien. I am a 60+ norwegian female, and I can hardly remember a time in my life (in Norway) when I did not have a mixed group of male and female friends. All through childhood, all through my teenage years, and these friendships has continued into adulthood, have survived several romantic partners. The only exception to this were some of the years I lived abroad, and I remember how strange I thought it when men and women were so segregated.
Also, living through the tail-end of poverty stricken, small farm-Norway, I also know that men and women working together was the rule rather than the exception. We would never have survived if not.
A lot of what is said here is completely opposite to my own experience…..
Culture plays a significant role in how the sexes get along. Norway is very egalitarian. Very progressive compared to the rest of the world and that has a lot to do with the stresses the environment. But look beyond this one point. Look at other cultural differences that Norway has to get a clear picture of the initial push in culture. Then look at job choices pairing choices and birth rates. Everything is culture and environment. But humans have a base line. Looking at our most primitive societies is a presentation of this. And lastly there are always outliers. Whether that's represented by an individual or a society as a whole.
Welcome to America where men want sex and women want simps.
The nordic countries are (were) the most sane, peacefull places to live of many reasons. Some that I can't even say out loud (one that I'm pretty sure of, but never have heard anyone talk about - and that I won't talk about in public, before I publish my book later this year - if "life" doesn't fook it up.) but your experiences are subjective. But I'm pretty sure, that a lot of your friends ended up "doing things" in secret, as time went by. I'm about the same age (ooh the paaain) and in "my" Denmark the small groups often ended up hooking up for a night or a few times - IF the guys had the balls to make an approach.. Very fery many didn't..
As an American, I think that your experience reflects a different societal structure and time.
I am in no way a professional cultural anthropologist but I play one on Yt ;-)
I have maintained a very few childhood female friends, as the world we live in has expanded bigly and especially with smart phones and social media, which as exacerbated the societal divide not only politically, but between men and women. Certain innate characteristics of females are encouraged and promoted, such as what was in this video.
I, too, am dismayed at how man-woman relationships have deteriorated aver the last 20-30 years.
I am glad that I dated before mark-si-zim and femm-in-izm infected our culture, when women respected men(and vice versa) and were generally a joy to be around. Going on an actual date was a delightful experience.
I watch other Yt videos of mostly young modern women and I don’t recognize most of them. What a nightmare for young dudes to have to navigate.
The women closer to my age are much more pleasant.
Blessings to you 🇺🇸🇳🇴
Aside from culture, I've noticed it's different when it's a friend group. But having one-on-one friendships is when I can see why it can be odd -- it's almost a romantic relationship, minus the sexual part. However, I know culture plays a big role when I say that I've had friend groups where one person was romantically interested in another. Then they would get together and most of the time the friend group would either partially or completely break apart.
I would have to agree with the assessment for the most part. However as a male, i have and have had a few female friends without wanting a backup. For me, when i would meet these women and get to know them well, i felt in my heart that to take this friendship to the next level would not work out in the long run. I hate the term, "just friends" as if it is something less. How many people hang out with their ex partners? Anyhoo, to go beyond friendship might destroy the relationship. For me, it's not a backup. It's a friendship i want to nurture.
Yeah you’re a male. This is about females haha.. you are still likely the backup.
I have the same approach. I think it's about maturity, not gender.
‘Just friends’ makes sense. Friendship isn’t as powerful as an intimate bond.
THANKS.
@@x_Artius_x he's only a backup when he actually deeply considers a relationship with any of them.
I have a handful of female friends, I don't think any of them would consider me a backup, but even if they ever did try to get into a relationship with me, I would turn them down.
I am not interested in them for a lot of reasons, most of them have nothing to do with them.
It is the old law of unintended consequences, as highlighted here, the MeToo movement has made things worse for women.
However, it also cuts both ways. In the UK 30 odd years ago, men could retire at 65 and women at 60. A bloke thought this was discriminatory and took his case to court, which he won. Now both men and women retire at 65.
The irony is that he died at 58.
dude made it worse for women, and then tapped out before hitting his own limit lol
Are you saying humans should only interact ever, if it's for money, security or dating? Like there is nothing else, no actual community, friendship, being human, likeability, other than everyones personal advantage?!!
I grew up in a big family, learned several sports and musical instruments and I just happen to love people. I make friends with everybody, except a few that I just dont get along with. And then I end up surprised every single time when they think I "use them" for money or I must want sex with them or I "use them" as backup for some weird purpose. Or I learn that they only speak to me because they want something and if they dont get it, they will never greet me again.
Cant we just like people, enjoy the company of good people? Do wonderful things together, solve each others problems or the worlds problems - or just spend quality time? What about arts?
Why would children be open and interact with a friendly attitude, with strangers?
It is so disheartening to hear people wonder over and over about why humans would hang around with humans. Why we would enjoy interacting and building trust. Why we would care about each others wellbeing, just like that. Weird and disheartening.
Probably also the reason for people suddenly ghosting people. You have no use for me - you dont exist for me.
Exactly. It is sad that people seem to think that we can't just connect with people with out some other self serving motives. I don't know if these podcasts are just dark or whether a lot of people are indeed shallow and I haven't cottoned on.
Guy here, I've had female friends exactly like you at different points in my life - and they were great friendships with great women who I hope are going well now wherever they are!
Having said that, the lady in the video does have a point. The majority of my friendships with women have been fraught with complications. It should be noted that research of the sort she conducts in her work reveal general truths and tendencies about people. Doesn't mean there aren't exceptions to the rule who can have healthy, cross-sex friendships!
It's a tricky one. Several times in my life I thought I had female friends but then they started acting weird on me. Turns out they wanted more than something platonic and when I wouldn't reciprocate they became antagonistic at me. Their intentions were never pure, they didn't actually want friendship the way I did, they pretended to but then their true intentions were revealed and its depressing because men and women should be able to be real friends
Did they want a sexual relationship with you? Money? emotional outlet? Boyfriend like privileges?
Even when they want a friendship, they tend to expect behavior that can only really be expected from a boyfriend/husband.
Yep, it's usually women who accuse men of doing this, but in my experience women do it and then turn it around on you. The narrative is that many men are passive "nice guys" who get mad when their female friends won't date them. I've never done that but I HAVE had several women do it to me, then go and tell people I was desperately in love and couldn't accept they didn't have the same feelings.
Men and women can't just be friends. There will always be some kind of attraction from at least one of the parties. Always! We are sexual beings.
@@csx6910 Yeah thats pretty much what happened. One example was this......I met a friend for lunch one Saturday afternoon. She wanted to pop into a grocery store beside the cafe first and pick up a few things. So we went to the store and when it was time to pay at the check out I told her I was gonna pop next door to the cafe cause I wanted to use the bathroom. So we were having coffee and she suddenly says to me "hey that guy in the shop next door said to me that "your boyfriend is a disgrace". I was like what? And she says, "Yeah because you didn't carry my basket for me". I replied, "well did you explain to him I wasn't your boyfriend?" And she said "oh yeah I told him". Now this just seemed so weird to me, it didn't feel right. First off this girl was literally engaged to some dude and second I was sure she was lying. So I pretended to pop to the bathroom but I went next door to the shop, rocked up to the same dude at the check out and asked him if he had said this? He looked genuinely gobsmacked and confused. He flat out said "No man I didn't say a word to her". She had lied to me. She had concocted a story because she felt I should've carried her basket for her......even though I was not her boyfriend. It was an insane and vindictive thing to do. She showed me her true character that day and after that I had nothing to do with her again. She literally nuked a good friendship and for what? Even though I wasn't her boyfriend she still expected boyfriend/husband treatment. Madness.
This is something I've been reflecting on quite a lot recently. Part of the toxicity of modern feminism is the ways in which the culture has engendered in women a range of behaviours that might be considered "reactance", pushing back for the sake of pushing back, as well as the appropriation of masculinity in a way that can only end up as being competitive, even if it's pointless. I see similarities with the young woke folk who want to push back against something, anything, for the sake of deriving and maintaining an identity. With women, we see the appropriation of masculinity as observable in dating profiles where some women are highlighting their "I'm one of the boys", beer-drinking, smoking, swearing, weightlifting, etc. behaviours that seem to internalise the perceived notion of masculinity, rather than the actual (in the same way that trans people seem to internalise a stereotype as the epitome of the gender they feel connected to). And for serious dating, while the compatibility of someone with similar interests has value, men typically don't want a partner who is "one of the boys".... That's what the boys are for. The reactance can be seen in women clinging to friendships with males, regardless of the consequence for dating. This is because any compromise or sacrifice for a relationship with a man is anti-feminist. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy though - keeping other men around reduces the investment of the primary male partner (or brings out unhealthy mate-guarding behaviours), thereby "justifying" the presence of other men. Or, intimacy is sought, but is compromised by the unnecessary presence of competitors, destabilising the relationship and reinforcing the behaviours that created the obstacles in the first place.
I also believe that there is more of an avoidance (in terms of attachment) in modern culture. Collectively, we support avoidant behaviours more than anxious ones. Society lets avoidant women (and men) off the hook, because there are legitimate pretexts for having a career, having (male) friends, populating one's life with lots of extracurricular activities, etc., that all represent an opportunity cost in a relationship, that all represent the diversification of invested energy that does not go to a primary partner. This even extends to accruing a history of hookups and casual dating, society is more accepting, even though it ultimately is an impediment to the intimacy of a committed monogamous relationship. When the primacy of the family / intimate partnership was prized, it was more obvious to point out the threat of male friends, etc., where as now, the same concern is labelled insecure, judgemental, controlling.
As another example, even women's style now skews towards features that are not the predominant male attractors - shorter (even shaved) hair, more tattoos and piercings, "fat acceptance", androgyny, etc. Very few men have this as an aesthetic preference for a romantic interest, and some of it becomes a very obvious way for men to realise there is no point in pursuing (which is perhaps, subconsciously, he point of doing it?). There is a "terrible twos" aspect of this, a defiant "no!" such that that women don't mind looking less appealing as long as they're rejecting the preferences of the majority of men. "Down with the patriarchy", yes, but a pyrrhic victory, to be sure.
I find the above ideas and the clip itself very interesting in how they relate to recent talks by Esther Perel on how we expect so much more from our romantic partner. In terms of checklists, this is something I agree with. But I wonder if the investment is often lower, because of avoidance behaviours? I wonder if, back in the day, we might have played fewer roles for each other, but they were more exclusive, and now, we play more roles with less exclusivity? I suggest that narcissism in the modern psyche results in a fear of engulfment from exclusivity and unfettered intimacy, and this is resolved by having other opposite sex people around, even having polygamy and other variations to relationship structure, as a means to try to meet the need to connect deeply and intimately, but not risk engulfment by a sole, committed intimate partner.
I appreciated that Chris and Dr Reynolds touched on the gender gap in perceptions around this issue. There are women who I believe when they say they would never be sexually interested in a male friend. For men, it's simply a question of the right conditions - be they alcohol, unmet sexual needs, emotional upheaval, whatever. Women, with a vested interest, vociferously defend the platonicity of male friends. Men know better.
I know this post is long enough a lot of people probably just scrolled past it, but you made some excellent points. Thanks for sharing.
As a man who has a deeply romantic and intimate relationship with a woman I've been married to for 10 years and had two kids with, I agree with your assessment that having lots of opposite gender friends besides your primary partner is, at least partly, avoidant behaviour.
Or put more simply, it's the result of fear. If you're afraid of getting burned, you're not going to put all your eggs in one basket. If you're not getting you're needs met, and are afraid to say so, you'll diversify.
If you're committed to you're partner, and they're not meeting your needs the way you want, you talk to them, and work towards deeper intimacy.
If you're scared they're unwilling, or unable to meet those needs, you'll look elsewhere.
@@matthewmiller8297 thank you for the compliment. You're spot on that avoidant behaviours are fear-based. Our need for intimacy is universal, but anxiously attached people are constantly moved by fear towards connection and avoidantly attached people are forced by fear to maintain distance to prevent a hurt from reoccurring.
The reinforcing nature of behaviours that result from insecure attachment style is the most tragic. Anxious people move forward only to be pushed back, only to have their "unlovability" confirmed. Avoidant people keep others away and reinforce their fear that people don't stick around for them, won't meet their needs.
It's refreshing to hear about your relationship. Decade-plus relationships don't usually happen by accident, they take work and a willingness to communicate and to take responsibility for one's role. Thanks for sharing.
@@dant3175 Damn right
@@robs.5847 Well said, and thank you.
Regarding the short hair part, that is a cultural thing. Humans naturally find long hair more attractive on both men and women but because cultures dictates that only short hair is acceptable on men and boys there is an association of "low class" with it if a man has longer hair. Meanwhile in some cultures short hair and even buzzcuts are expected of women as well and long hair doesn't have the association of "femininity" as it does in the West and (unfortunately now) most of the world.
I have a bunch of male friends, I have no interest in them and have been friends with many of them since age 12. I think it's a bit of stretch to think that the single reason why women have male friends is to have a backup plan, I'm sure it is a reason, don't get me wrong, but I also think women and men are humans who share interests, experiences, and can enjoy each others company platonically.
Of course you do. Comment section has always that special person who is not the majority at all.
@@tiroles I didn't say that I am the majority, but definitely this idea is not remotely true for everyone which is worth bringing up as I've seen many comments saying that this is how all female/male friendships are
@@user-kb1hw2yq2f with my childhood friends, I never hang out with them one on one, always in a group setting. I think maybe there's some exceptions but I'd agree that close male/female relationships (where everyone is straight) feel wrong in a relationship. If my bf decided to get a very close female friend, I probably wouldn't like it but I have no problem with him having female friends - in fact I think it's a positive thing
@@emilydarrall6693 The reason why this debate is "controversial" is because the word "friend" is not well defined. Casual friendships as you describe (mostly group settings, no "date like" activities) are fine and completely normal, and everyone has them. No one is talking about that. People are talking about friendships in which there is a lot of exclusive one on one time, frequent "dates" (getting drinks, dinner, going to the movies...) and strong emotional intimacy. THAT is the type of friendship that people are talking about when we say, "men and women can't truly be just friends." For me this is intuitive and obvious, but it appears a lot of people use the word "friend" very loosely and thus get very triggered when this subject comes up.
@@bluevelvet2 Yeah, I guess I just operate by a looser definition of friend. I would guess most people would refer to people they hang out with regularly as friends though, even if they only ever hang out in group settings, it feels completely wrong to call people I see on a weekly basis acquaintances or something. But yeah operationalising what is meant by friend would solve the issue for me at least because I fully agree on the close friendships you describe
I am a female who works as a antiques restorer/wood worker, we have a great dynamic in the workshop because we approach things so differently therefore always find the best solution. I get on with men far better than women and generally have more in common. There is definitely nothing sexual, more a meeting of minds. Environmental factors definitely make a difference.
Same for me, working in the IT environment most of my colleagues are male. They are fun and it's always a pleasure working with them.
Are you single or married?
@@Demise09732 long term hetro relationship since 2004. So neither 😂
Beware! I have had a platonic relationship with a colleague for 3 years. I am 60 and happily married, and she is 40 and unhappily married … her husband does not live up to her expectations, and so she has banished him to the spare room, totally emasculated him. She told me that her plan was to separate from him and for each of them to find new partners, while he stayed nearby to help care for their 3 young kids. I spoke openly with her about it, and provided support. She told me about her feelings toward other men, and I gave her validation. Then the other day she told me that she really wasn’t talking to her husband about separation, although she was openly talking about having relationships with other men. She said she didn't want to split with him until she found another partner. I realised that she was just punishing her husband, and forming relationships with men to 1. validate her (that was my role), 2. provide a backstop and 3. satisfy a romantic fantasy. She had no comprehension that even if she was not having sex with anyone, she was still betraying her husband, and I told her that I didn’t support her in this, and that she should sort things with her husband one way or the other, and until then cease her opposite sex relationships, and potentially also end her relationship with me. She responded angrily saying that she would NEVER cheat on her husband (how dare I suggest it!), immediately blocked and ghosted me, and told me she no longer wished to be my friend anymore. I was hurt, hoped that she would still want to be friends, but realise now ending the friendship was for the better. I now worry a bit that this will affect our professional relationship, she is avoiding any contact at work.
"creating backup mates" exactly.. the amount of abuse I got from women when I pointed this out... thanks for confirming what I always knew
Deep inside woman know what they’re doing, but the moment you call them out for it, they call you insecure. Never accept male ‘friends’ in a relationship with a woman. The moment she doesnt agree with this you should let go. That’s what I learned
@@tehnorthface4346 I just stopped listening to them, just watch the behaviour and dynamics of what was going on. The moment you get intellectually into this especially in a group they try to embarrass you or shame you. The more experience I got with women the more and more I realised the lies that came out their mouths tbh. Men lie alot but women lie in a specific kind of way I find fascinating. I do not see men trying to befriend the ugly ones I notice... funny that
Or use as free resources.
You get to be the one she calls when she needs heavy things moved, complex tasks completed that you may have ability to solve for her, or just to pay her attention when she's feeling insecure or needs an ego boost.
All the benefits of a boyfriend for her, none of them for you.
Don't fall for it.
The ONLY(!) benefit is networking. She might have single friends she could refer you towards. But if you're useful enough to her, she probably won't so she doesn't lose those benefits...
I am a woman. What you are saying is true. We love attention, help, and ego boosts from men. Especially when we know we don't have to be in a relationship with them to follow us around like a little doggy. We don't even care if we sabotage your relationships with women who might actually take you seriously for a relationship. Women know what they are doing, they just play dumb lol
@@bluevelvet2 please don't speak for all women. Speak for yourself
Simps and free attention-validation
Women cannot resist that nowadays
Pimps n hoes
its mens fault though. It sickening to watch all these guys keep commenting online
You both are wrong it’s literally both genders
"Backup mates" aka friend zone until useful
I must be a weirdo because I appreciate women's beauty, like to be competitive at work, and also don't ostracize men because they're men.
Same
Its having a back up plan or just an extra point of attention in many cases.
They're either backup plans, or they're for free attention, free validation, free emotional support, and to extract resources, such as free drinks and free food. I work with a woman who has a lot of guy friends and they always pay for her food and drinks, etc. whenever they hang out., which is often.
There are no absolutes, there are no all women do x or y because of this.
Generally though if the woman is of good character then it's just genuine friendship, if she is of poor character then it is for validation and utility - her own personal army of simps to call on when she needs a man to do heavy lifting or whatever.
sorry but the man is there to hope to get lucky one day with the so called friend. it is extremely rare to be a genuine friendship
This all just reflects our current intergender emotional injuries. We should not BE in competition in the first place. We should be in cooperation. This also spotlights the error in our current economic system and occupational environments. If we see all human beings as brothers and sisters, in a pure way, then we transcend these emotional injuries. ✌️
I wholeheartedly agree with you but I don’t know how this works instinctually
My female friends are the wives of male friends. So the relationships are very clear. And I am so happy to have their friendships.
have you ever looked at any of their Asses? I mean the Problem i have with opposite sex friends, is you can't simply be consciouss 24h/7d if you interact with them a lot , so you may never take any inappropriate action, but the TOUGHTS are there, and frequently.... and in hardtimes they sometimes step on the Redlines.
I think that yes this is definitely true on a deeper more primordial level, but for a lot of people it's really nothing huge. I almost always think that way whenever I have female friends but it's usually only to a pretty insignificant extent. I don't really think "wow I'd like her to be my girlfriend" in the future but definitely entertain the thought. It's normal human nature.
this caught em off gaurd because this is exactly what I tell my friends and she literally confrimed it
Wow, I just saw a friend get friend zoned and this vid comes out 😂😂😂 I'll need to share it with my nibba
Don't... He has been sidelined for a reason (even if it's just bad timing) if he sees this he will think he just needs to try harder or worse pretend to be a friend whilst waiting for an opening...
@@adeleg4759 Wrong - fcts make you more able to navigate correctly.
men who are friendzoned and continue to allow the woman to use him are losers
@@jayc342009 Define "to use".
@@CONEHEADDK as validation, when a woman friendzones you she doesn't find you attractive but she will happily use you for validation.
I got hurt by this a lot. Hanged out with a girl I liked and who also seemed to show interest (turned out she was just super friendly and wanted to be friends). Made the blunder of never asking if she had a bf from the get go or telling her I liked her. Then my fondness turned deeper and before I know it I had asked her out and she said she had a bf and she was sorry she lead me on. It’s very painful especially when you develop serious feelings. Never felt more hurt, desolate and destroyed in my life after this event.
Good resilience training and red pill education.
Any man who is romantically attracted to women is gay . Just banging should be there that's it that's how nature works .
If you're interested, ask out early. Don't chicken.
It’s also a good lesson to realise that those ‘feelings’, as intense as they may be, has more to do with hormones than love. You then build up ideas and hopes in your head, and you don’t actually really know the person. Then it all comes crashing down and that’s why it hurts. Most of us learn this the hard way. Some don’t learn. Also the more you invest, the less status you have in her eyes. Because high value men don’t make heavy investments unless the return is reciprocal.
I really like that you realise that it was a mistake not to ask her. Asking "do you have a partner" is not "too forward" it is good communication. Both people get the chance to evaluate if the interaction with the other person is good for them. Both get to protect their feelings, because loosing a friend can hurt too.
Honesty is important for all relationships.
If someone gets upset, then that's an answer too. Early on doesn't hurt as much, you can think "well, that one is not for me" and move on. The only thing you're missing out on in this case is dissapointment.
I wish you all the best and to all the other people still looking. Of course you're the boss of your life and need to make your own decisions
Opposite sex friendships have enriched my life so much. Don't miss out on them
I have a close female friend, literally no attraction to each other. We grew up as neighbors and played together as kids, we have similar interests and go to concerts together. Neither of us are in relationships though so there hasn't been much jealously or scrutiny from significant others. Would be interesting to see if that changes if either of us enter a serious relationship with someone.
@riseofazrael Bullshit, you're a dude, you're programmed to want to impregnate her, it is what it is.
It would change.
Aww, younger me
How are you doing?
It's so cute to hear from myself , minus 20 years.
One of you has an attraction.
@@jordaneubank without exception
Compared to my female friends, my platonic male friends have always treated me better. They have been kinder, warmer, more supportive, attentive (listening skills), trustworthy, caring, etc.. I didn't have to worry about them backstabbing me, saying mean things about me or gossiping about me. They weren't "back-ups." I made sure I set sexual/romantic boundaries and as long as I acted respectably, they respected my wishes. Simple. They were better friends than any of my female friends. They were also upfront about things, in general.
You had orbiters, not friends (at least most of them)
Hate to break it to you, but most of them probably wanted something more than just your friendship.
Well, I wonder how firmly you set those boundaries in the first place or how much they thought they might erode if you broke up with your bf.
Emotional tampons
@@rumor7787 it's easy for a guy to have female friends they're not sexually attracted to and vice versa. Guys that grew up around girls, siblings, close cousins and around the neighborhood formed frindships and social circles that had both men and women in the circles have had female friends that are like sisters to them. They're not socially competent and can easily talk to women way more than men who see only have only perceive women as an all or nothing sum to their romantic interest of them.
All my friends are men. They are direct, drama free, and treat me with respect. The few female friends I have had through the years have been lesbian. Guess I am not a girly girl. Rather go for a hike than hang out at the mall or the hairdressers.
I just get along better with men than women. They don’t get offended as easily, they tend not to backstab, and generally come with less drama! The few female friends I have are also like this but were much harder to find than good male friends. It’s ideal to have same sex friends, but as a woman who is very logical and linear, it’s difficult to find similarly minded women!
Yeah, the problem is all your male friends want to have sex with you.
Those men are just wanting the kitty so they act nice. 🤣 and u enjoy the easy safe attention you can get your fix and walk away lmfao
If you can't be friends with any female, perhaps you are part of the problem also?
Can't people just be friends because they enjoy each others company? Why must there always be a hidden motive ?
An obvious example of just this is the ever decreasing desire of men to work as school teachers. The thought of being accused of sexual harassment is bad enough, but the thought of being accused of sexually harassing a minor is absolutely terrifying. There doesn't have to be a single piece of evidence, not only would your career be finished, but so would your standing in the community. No thanks, I'd never be a school teacher in a million years. Men are no longer protected with the rule of law, such as a fair trial and the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.
Women spent the bulk of their days (for a hundred thousand years+) around other women, managing children, small livestock, foraging and light home tending. Men spent the bulk of their days away from the home hunting, scouting territory, securing territory, warring, etc. Men and women only spent time 1 on 1 if they were mates, or if there was an older male relative (father, grandfather) that was fortunate enough to live to an older age, but could no longer fulfill his standard VERY mobile & physical former (male) role.
Think of it like your woman keeping an eye on your grandpa that doesn't have the pep in his step to live like he used to.
Aside from that, non-family males and females would pass one another in the daily comings and goings of village/tribal life, and ALL villagers/tribespeople would spend time in SHARED company during special celebrations. But even in this, if mates weren't together, villagers would overwhelmingly be broken up in social groups based on sex.
Unrelated breeding age male and female humans are designed from go to be VERY LIKELY to end up mating if in shared (pair) solitary company.
Anyone claiming otherwise is either earnestly dumb, is deluded with modern want-over-reality idealism ...or is trying to get away with something.
Women did the vast majority of the labor butchering meat, constructing homes and making clothes which are all very labor intensive. Without clothes and portable home structures, we'd have never left Africa. This is how the Inuit and native Americans lived and was undoubtedly how people did it in the Old World. They didn't just pick berries and do "light home tending." It was also critical women knew how to hunt in case something happened to the men considering their high mortality or they got separated from the group.
@@sibyloftexas
" *They didn't just pick berries and do light home tending* "
When you take my blatantly visible words and twist them into a phrase that serves your efforts to take a shot at me -- you out yourself as dishonest.
From here on out within this dialogue, you will carry that the mark you have earned yourself : dishonest
" *It was also critical women knew how to hunt* "
Wrong. A survival lifestyle strapped people do not have the optional time to waste on any significant redundancy training, doubly so when optional training of a less task (hunting) capable class also exposes the tribe to the threats that come with losing the value of fertility and the home and child care described in my initial post.
By the time most females would be approaching their physicality prime, the majority were already in some stage of pregnancy or child rearing. Neither of which would have made them a solid option for entirely optional training.
Primitive peoples largely didn't gather and plan the breakdown of responsibilities like some work foreman (with a plan), rather they inherited a MANY THOUSANDS of years handed down method of living that was time refined based on (in this case) what sexes within the tribe were best designed for. There wasn't some grand management, it was more pegs falling into the place they were best suited for.
Human females are significantly less designed for the heavy physicality of hunting (from raw upper body strength, to hip design ...to heart size for the purpose of blood flow and circulation), and are more risk averse, meaning more passed up opportunities due to the perception of losing risk v reward danger, plus hunting injuries and failures that result from more hesitation during an engagement.
The problem here isnt me. I've expressed no criticism in women by-and-large having a different role within the bulk of human history, its those like YOU that cant accept women existing as anything other than pseudo-men.
I'll cap off my response by also emphasizing that this :
" *rather they inherited a MANY THOUSANDS of years handed down method of living that was time refined based on (in this case) what sexes within the tribe were best designed for* "
....served as a feedback loop which pushed human evolution so that each sex could better serve in the role that they were already better suited for within human groups.
We lived like the above a HELLUVA lot longer than we've been living anything resembling "the modern age", which means we still carry the specialization variations of all of that time forged evolution. We are 99% more THOSE tribal humans, than we are the fictional idealism of ' _everyone's the same_ ' modernity.
@@thehydra4007 this is a bunch of insanely misogynistic pseudoscientific crap you evidently got from watching too much Flintstones.
Men only have 15% more sexual dimorphic ratio than women. For comparison, bonobos have 29% more who are by far the whimpiest of the great apes. Today's hunter-gathering men have 10% body fat compared to less than 1% in bonobos. Homo sapiens also have extraordinarily neotinic features of the face. This makes human males by far the most effeminate of the great apes. This is because we selected for androgyny and low levels of testosterone and aggression. Your gender essentialist arguments are a bunch of crap.
@@sibyloftexas
" *this is a bunch of insanely* "
The (self appointed) _science party_ diagnoses you as some variation of 'insane' based on a RUclips comment and understanding the strong variation between human males & females.
The funny thing is that this makes someone look unstable alright.
" *this is a bunch of insanely misogynistic* "
Emotional religious language, which is glaringly supported by the speaker offering up a share my belief or ' _heretic_ ' ultimatum.
I dont share your religion, so your ideological disapproval and in-group condemnation language, means nothing to me.
You're a walking convert or else ideological bot.
As for human dimorphism between the sexes.
1) The variation is not the same among all human groups
2) If I GIFTED you the 15%, much smaller variations within nature result in VERY LARGE and glaring differences.
No matriarchal society ever advanced beyond hut living hunter/gatherers.
EVERY premiere level human civilization across human history has overwhelmingly been planned, constructed and managed to success by human males.
w/o that, no Macedonia, Russian Empire, Persian Empire, Byzantine Empire, Qing Dynasty, Greece, Rome, Egypt, etc
The variation between human male and human female is SO impactful that within the species it means the difference between any modern definition of pinnacle civilization vs base subsistence grade tribal primitivism.
Its the difference between dominance of nature (for species benefit) on a scale seen nowhere else on the planet, versus just trying to survive within a natural regional environment like some kind of primate.
Watch what would happen to 1 modern major metropolitan city if men noped out just in their self-assigned role of snow removal during a major snowfall.
What a coincidence that the immediate impact would be a dramatic civilizational halt.
Yes, human males are so effeminate that they have largely dominated the planet in a manner that no other primate even begins to approach.
Also, its humorous seeing you accuse me of getting my understanding of biology/biological variation from the "Flintstones" while you present a position that amounts to "human males are pretty much just the same as human females because human males vary greatly from modern apes".
LOL
" *This is because we selected for androgyny and low levels of testosterone* "
There is no significant reflection of human female mating selection based on outwardly perceivable low test levels within human males, within the overwhelming majority of human history.
Theres a reason why Roman noblewomen would pay for access to prowess proven gladiators, but there is no mention of the same regarding males that outwardly displayed noteworthy low levels of Test.
Theres a reason why historically (to the present), "alpha" males have MANY TIMES OVER greater access to women (in quality and numbers) than the average male. You can multiply that many times further for men that display their low T levels through existing as the stereotypical "basement dweller".
" *Your gender essentialist arguments are a bunch of crap* "
My outline of the bulk of human existence (on this topic) is readily understandable to the average reader. It is documented in what remains of civilizations across the globe spanning just about all of human history. It is plainly presented in a logical manner, not through an effort to force people to agree with me via emotional name calling and ideological "I do not approve" rejection/intimidation language.
@@thehydra4007 more misogynistic pseudoscientific crap but now you're adding in jacking off to your own masculine prowess. 99% of men have been cucking themselves for the top 1% of men building these civilizations during this entire historical period you described. Just look at Putin tossing hordes of men to be cannon fodder in the war in Ukraine. I don't think anything demonstrates the effeminization of men more than that.
4:59 this point about competition makes me wonder if that’s why it can be more comfortable hanging out with men than a lot of women, with the exception of a woman’s genuine female friends who truly support her, which is unfortunately not every single one. I would feel much more comfortable hanging with male friends who might think I’m attractive so long as they respect my boundaries than with women who are passive aggressively competing with me and making me feel like shit.
I was teased by someone to be the backup mate when I thought I was being chosen to be the mate, and it caused me major confusion. It turned out that she was looking for the one with the highest salary.
She’s the kind of pump & dump you just lie to about your salary. Next time stud. Maybe you dodged a bullet.
@@bryanutility9609 I found out later on that she would do the 1st date, 2nd date thing. But a guy would have to take her on vacation to get the action.
@@michaeln.2383 no pussy is worth a vacation anymore, the stock plummeted
@@michaeln.2383 the implication of the vacation 😂
I don't see why everything has to be sexual or romantic. Why can't people just have friends haha
It's just human nature
@THE ZOLDICS they aren’t tho I don’t want my homie to be my backup that’s just my homie 😭
@THE ZOLDICS I feel like a lot of these male-female friendships would only last long if you aren't very physically attracted to them. You can recognize that they're good-looking but if you start being *super* attracted them, jealousy could start to happen if one of you date another person.
If you see someone as a friend you're basically saying I like your personality but I'm not physically attracted to you, why would you keep as back up someone like that? That's more for narcisistic people who only want to make sure they have always someone on their web and might avoid ending up alone after so many failed relationships, but someone who really appreciates you wouldn't.
@@shamilaschabova70 It's also human nature to not sleep with every single person of the opposite sex that we deem attractive. It's also human nature to bond with a signifcant other and not sleep with anyone else.
Guys think about how much you do for female friends: you still buy shit (despite not getting laid), you still give her rides, help her, do her favors, provide emotional comfort... women get a lot of utility out of male friends. It's a survival strategy.
Don't let them take you for the ride. I recently got taken and now have to extricate myself.
As a woman I prefer working with men than women in the workplace. Women are competitive and back stabbing. That said if your in a strained relationship at home your workmates become part of a pool you look at. But if your happy at home its just a chill group to work with. Ive never felt sextually harassed by male workmates.
To be fair we are competitive too. We just have the ability to be honorable and competitive. It's very easy to be honorable and competitive, which tells me women don't care about getting things honestly. You can't be trusted if that's the case.
I probably don't work with you, but to all women, don't come at me romantically at work, I will report you to HR and get you moved away from me.
Men also prefer working with men.
@WHAT IF: what you are describing sounds an awful lot like a backup plan. Normally these males are not interesting enough, but nice to have around. But when in need, they are possible candidates :P
@@Bonesawisready926 I absolutely agree...men are just as competitive....honnorable sometimes...but men have the same capacity to be catty....it depends on the field. My field was 98% female so extreamly catty and unbalanced energy. I have actually been a stay at home mom for 7 years now. When I was working tho my now ex husband was cheating on me online....so I made poor choices. I had work friends of both sexes who I didnt view as future backups for 14 years in my field. I have never gone after a male coworker but I did have my supervisor pursue me. Its VERY common in Healthcare enviornment for coworkers to carry on extra marital relationships...partly because this is an individual who can sympathize with your experience of dealing with death conatantly...partly because of spending 90% of your life at work. Same thing in the military. I learned it was a toxic environment and after my relationship ended and I was single for a while and did interspection I became hyper aware not to put myself in situations that would put myself or my relationship at risk. I dont carry of relationships with men outside of my husbands primary friends who are now mutual friends....I value my family and marriage over outside relationships.
@@hanswoast7 In any case where you suddenly find yourself single or in a failing relationship I think any individual first looks at the "safe" people (individuals you know)first. For instance my husband is part of a show/high end car group. I constantly see these young women who date different men within the group. One male friend of my hubbys is always wondering why he cant keep a relationship ...and we advised him to not date this girls because of the strain it causes to their friend groups. My hubby and I are in our 40's with a family we see the 18-30 something individuals making the mistakes of our youth and we try to guide them away from doing this stuff. Hind sight is 20/20. Most of these girls are nice enough but I see alot of growth and life lessons needed....I just wouldnt advise our male friends (who are more like my kids or younger brother than anything) to date this type if they are looking to settle down.
The problem is that women compete against other women for the attention and validation of men, but men also compete against each other to be considered top dogs amongst men- so societally too much value is placed on what men think
Personally If there's something that I value in friendship is loyalty and reciprocity, I've never found that in friendship with women, I hate drama, and guy friends are thrustworty to talk about life and problems because they don't see you as competence, never saw my friends as back ups, quite the opposite always tried to give them advice and befriend their girlfriends, I was never physically attracted to my friends.
That's why males don't want female friends aka you .
They just want one thing
Maybe. Some ppl are just more comfortable being with the opposite sex sharing some of their attributes.
I had more male friends than female because I hated the girl drama. My female friends weren't dramatic for the most part. I have had these friends for 30+ years and my husband wouldn't dream of asking me not to meet up for coffee or a beer. My husband is always welcome. We trust each other. I can't imagine not being friends with someone because they are opposite sex.
How many male friends did you end up sleeping with?
@@CSAcrazySame thing im wonderin.
Sounds shady and doesn't sound very trustworthy. Would you be okay with your husband having so many female friends and say its cool? It looks inappropriate and one of them is bound to have feelings or some sexual attraction. Let's not pretend that we can all fall into temptation if we place ourselves there.
@@Casual_Talk You're insecure. If your other half 'falls into temptation' then they're not relationship material so end it. I feel sorry for whoever you're with because there is no relationship without trust.
Interesting, I can see how agonistic stereotypes, policies and movements between races can also create a bigger divide 🤔 instead of coming together. Good intentions or not
Having opposite gender friends is not ok. Maybe casual work friendships where you have to get the job done but nothing more than that. Do not hang out with opposite gender friends ever. If you do, you will create a lot of stress and turmoil and anxiety in the relationship.
I felt you both conspiring... and I would never have a calorie counter as a back up plan.
If I were having this conversation in person I would ask people who have opposite-sex friends what they do to maintain the friendship. From what I read in the comments, pinpointing this core habitual practice within a friendship was not testified enough.
Usually most of these friendships connect to some conventional type of imposed upon social setting (family, school, work, religion, etc.)
I get people have people they call friends that are connected within such banners. I call those people my friends too.
But the opposite sex-friendship that is not rooted from such areas are the friendships I am wanting to hear more of, and in particular the ones that are one-bonded in a friendship solely and have no notable third party group that is connected (or at least the ones that are no longer in close proximity to such said imposed upon social settings).
Those types of friendships sounds interesting to hear about. Could careless about experiencing it all in all but it sounds cool.
Coming from the type of person I am, I have no desire to initiate a friendship to begin with. So to have a friend of the opposite sex? I just wonder what we would be doing.
This sentiment was not described enough in the comments so I was compelled to bring about the POV.
Why wouldn't they have opposite sex friends?
It's more women that do this.
If those guy friends would know that he has no chance with any sexual activities with that female friend? That friendship will be most likely be over.
It's not really surprising and works both ways. It's a great way to understand the opposite sex without any of the romantic entanglements and provides a way to test potential romantic partners; women are often bad at judging men, so taking advice from your male friends about a possible mate can be useful. It works even more the other way; a man who has no female friends is likely to be a bad romantic partner.
A guy in his 20s who wants to know more about women might befriend a female 4 or 5 years older. She might need him to perform errands, and by showing up where she lives, scare people off the idea that she lives alone and could be an easy target for a predator. Usually she would have a few of these guys around here and there over time - the guy however probably can't get a decent looking female friend that easily - most of them aren't in the market for that when they can have actual relationships easily. However, there are women who for psychological reasons, don't last long in relationships and/or don't find many people they want to date. Those women can feel overwhelmed if they have to do it all on their own, and vulnerable. If these two people remain friends for a fair while (often there's a brief romantic dalliance in the past, maybe one night of heavy petting) they might soon realise that it's hard to replace the other. It might not last beyond the early 30s for the guy or as the female starts to age (mid 30s), but nonetheless, it served a purpose for both for some years. Some guys don't like to know no women at all, because it makes them feel too disconnected from the other gender (especially younger guys) and women feel empowered if they have men at their beck and call.
As a guy I encountered three women before I turned 25 that I was interested in being friends with but saw little to no possibility of a relationship with. When I say interested in friendship, I mean exremely interested in two of them, a little in the third. One fizzled out because she wanted a relationship within a few weeks, another lived in a country a long way away and the third lasted about 10 years until I was in my early 30s and didn't need her anymore as a kind of emotional or psychological crutch. She was particularly good at dangling the chance of more than friendship in front of you, and she was significantly better than average physically until around 35. I outgrew the need for that type of connection but in my 20s it felt better doing that than being totally on my own around guys only.
being friend zoned is the worst humiliation any guy can face
- anonymous
Cause it’s terrible to have friends! Eww
Funny how people in psychology are just now telling us what we already know about women, they do recruit backups.
Interesting conversation as usual.
I you could have Camile Paglia on your show , I think it would be very interesting
So many unicorns in this comment section... makes me wonder how clueless people are about their own nature and the nature of the opposite sex.
Men and women CAN be friends. It's just that, that is not a rule for the majority. I got an undergrad degree in an internationally elite university and men & women there were platonic friends all the time. It was a place where a woman wouldn't sleep with you for a casual hookup if you didn't have a thorough understanding of hegelian dialectics, technically skilled in a musical instrument or have a thesis that maps out a new aspect of the mathematical simulation of fluid dynamics.
Pretty high bar for entry before you can be platonically friends with the opposite sex, so high that you might as well just call it an exception.
Wow. Two minutes in and I disagree too strongly to want to hear anymore. I was raised with three brothers. Found my bestie in high school because she was also raised with a brother, and we just didn’t “get” other females. As far as needing a backup mate… that seems borderline abusive of that poor stand-in. Do women really do that? I still don’t get females if that’s true.
I’m a biologist and it’s very interesting to think about human evolutionary strategies and mating schemes. Animals do all sorts of these behaviors.
I believe women and men can be friends but one has to remember that your opposite sex friends are members of the opposite sex first and friends second.
I think this might be the case in many instances but certainly not all. I tend to befriend people with good senses of humor. Those are the people that I gravitate towards in most situations because it's in my personality. I can think of more than one male friend that fits this mold that I have zero attraction to or intention of using as "backup" in the event that I end up single. (I'm happily married for 17 years.) Now, I will say that there's a boundary there where my husband is my most trusted. I wouldn't confide something to one of my male friends that I wouldn't confide in my husband first. Maybe that's the difference. If it's really just a platonic friendship, there are definite boundaries. (And many of these male friends of mine are also gay, so there's no attraction to me on their part either.)
They used to be called "bird dogs" before they were called orbiters then simps. There are certainly cases where a man and a women can have a genuine friendship by they are by and large the exception, do not allow yourself to be turned into a source of free material and emotional support.
We appreciate you King
Doll life is growing. An inside study in this would be super interesting.
I'm a single Male and have been friends with women for years. I'm hetro and have no desire to wreck a good friendship by going any further.
Sexual relationships are a thing of the past, for most men it's an unnecessary evil.
Ha ha ha ha. Yeah okay
@@mr.horrorchild4094Not every guy thinks like you.
@@CyrilSneer123 just the straight ones
In many countries, to have male friends are common as there are things we could talk about which are not women's interests. It puzzles me why in US or western world it is always has to be something sexual. I have bunch of male friends all my life since I was young and I am considered above average looking fit lady and they are still my friends today.
Which country?
@@rashedulkabir6227 southeast asia
I'm weird. I definitely have an underestimate of how much a girl is into me. One of my friends used to say he liked me as a wingman because I attract pretty girls but don't realize they're into me.
I feel like this is the exact same stuff that Andrew Tate or Fresh and Fit says, but when they say it it's considered sexist.
Thanks Chris
It is possible to have a good opposite sex friend. I have one. However it is not likely for most folks. You must have the conversation about being more than friends and if you choose not to be for whatever reasons, you both must respect that and find a way to deal with any feelings of attraction should you have them. That means helping each other set boundaries. And of course you just have some similar interests, hobbies, or enjoy similar activities to give you something worthwhile to do together. It can be done but it takes both you being adults about it and candidly talking about it. For what’s it’s worth, she’s now seeing someone and so am I, and that has not been a problem at all.
Does working with women in these high risk of accusation environments lower men’s tendency to approach women in general?
After Me Too men are actively discouraged from mentoring younger women due to fears of having their lives destroyed by an accusation that has no negative consequences for the accuser if it's found to be false... and your take home is "women most affected" because it hurts women's career prospects... doesn't that feel a bit backwards? I'd say "good men most affected" because all men are constantly under threat of complete ruin and treated like they're bad men and predators regardless if they're good or not. This situation hurts some women's careers some of the time. But it's a threat to all men, good or bad, all of the time. It's not very comparable.
"Friends".
Well i think it is time to cut friends who are female from my life . Whenever I have had them , they have been pretty antagonistic when I disagree with them .
I think part of it is just being noncommittal in relationships in the first place with hook-up culture. You can't betray someone if you never agreed to an exclusive relationship with in the first place. Everyone's a friend with potential benefits and nobody in a co-ed friendship group knows where they stand with anyone. Personally, I think people should avoid potential love triangles and I see a lot of male-female "friendship" as merely fence-sitting.
Final Fantasy IV
I think you meant "friendships" not "friends"
What about those of us who have friends that are specifically not like our mate preferences. The reason being, friends not mate potential. Full disclosure I have often found in these situations if I don't see them as mate potential, they likely, most often see me as mate potential 😁 sooo yes to this
We work with them😀
Not saying you can't have fun with them but for God's sake stop putting a ring on these type of women and then being surprised when they rip your heart out, only give the ring to the ones that truly deserve it.
it is hard to tell which is which though. Many women pretend to be the "good girl" until they are married and they pull the old bait and switch.
Please please explore gay non-sexual bro friendship with straight dudes and girls. There is nothing more fulfilling for me personally to have straight male friends. I just cannot connect meaningfully with dudes in the gay sub culture.
because the majority of them are animals.
Yes I’ve been ‘Duckie’ from movie Pretty in Pink.
Terrible situation to be in.
Women know what they’re doing. I cut out this behavior in myself when I figured out that it was leading men on. This subject tends to be a third rail with people though. Now that I’m married, I’m friendly with my friends’ husbands, some that I’ve known before they were married, some after. But there’s ZERO attraction on either side and so basically the friendship looks like an occasional pleasant chat at group events, parties, or double dates, and that’s it. If we were texting and hanging out one on one it would be weird and inappropriate tbh. I feel like the men feel the same way but I could be wrong.
Omg girl yes. Modern western women literally get homicidal whenever you even bring up their male friendships. They know exactly what they're doing - they don't want to lose their orbiters, and they enjoy the ego boost. As the saying goes, there is no such thing as a dumb woman, only a woman pretending to be dumb ;)
I think these statements should not be taken as a black or white thing. These are statistical findings and thus a good rule of thumb / mostly fitting descriptions of reality. There surely will be some counter examples. That is not the point. The point is that there are significantly different patterns, statistically speaking. But maybe that's too much nuance :P
There's no concern about me too impacting men at all. No no. The concern is that me too might be harming women. It's only when women get harmed that alarm bells go ringing and attention gets paid.
My best friend in high school was a girl, she came to our class a year later and had some kind of quarrel in the past with one of the girls in our class so other girls were quite hostile towards her. We got along really well, had same hobbies, but there was no mutual attraction whatsoever.
The only thing I can comment here is one female I met many years ago. I was 17, she was 4 yrs older but we met in a video game and became best friends. Still are to this day. But I had a massive crush on her for the longest time but one point I managed to give that up. Whether she actually had any sort of interest in me has always been unclear however even when I got a girlfriend, she was always the exact same with me. My girlfriend hates her with a passion but thankfully she is sort of on the other side of the world.
I'd drop nearly everything for her. To a point I'd go further for her than I would my girlfriend because she always asks for so little other than just time to talk and play. She's never had a boyfriend or girlfriend and I'd still treat her the same regardless.
In saying all of this though, she is the ONLY female that I can say this about. There is no other female I have met over the years where they have had an interest in either keeping a friendship for something more, or for other benefits. I have never had a huge friend group or anything like that, but when I consider 10-20 pretty close female friends over the years she is the only one that actually cared about the friendship. I'd assume it's rare and fair to say that a majority are looking for replacements.
She may be asexual where she does not care about that and that is why she has less of a motivation in that aspect. But that's hypothetical. None of that actually matters to me though but just some added food for thought.
We already knew this though. A lot of women just won't admit it.
...human resources, the grizzly bear just did grizzly bear things.
As a female who has exclusively male friends, from my perspective, I dispute much of this. I simply don't get along with females-they're too political, too much between-lines subtext and positioning. That, and the female competition couched in cheery, 'girlie' talk, I find tedious and disgusting. Whereas males' emotional landscapes are generally easy to interpret, they are less stressful to be around, and I find more in common with them.
Nah, you just don't like competition, and you like to be the center of attention, so when you are surrounded only with women you are just another one of the group, you don't feel special anymore, attention is like gasoline for you women.
i agree. jordan peterson often says about how men are more interested in things and females are more interested in people, generally speaking. women who are more interested in things tend to be more isolated from female peers.
I 100% agree. And you can’t argue that little girls choose guy-friends for backup mates when they’re not even in puberty. When I was little I purely wouldn’t play with so called “horse-girls” because of the same reasons you mentioned. 🦄
I agree with you. I had female friends when I was under 10 and then after that they got competitive, mean, scheming, and interested in things that I just couldn’t care about. After that I only had male friends. No drama, no emotional curveballs, lots of camping and shooting trips. When I got married I made an effort to befriend other wives. Theres ONE that I like to hang out with. We hike and smoke cigars together and talk about things we’ve learned and how to get better as wives and moms. I still get along better with men, but I try to keep it marriage friendly. I’m best friends with my father in law, and my female friends dad. The age difference makes it easier to explain that we really are just friends. My husband knows nothing bad is going on, and I suppose that’s all that matters.
As a male, I'm almost the opposite of you. Almost. I have female friends and many of them have been pretty chill and cool, but they're still feminine in that they like to have conversations and are empathetic. Guy friends are definitely easier, it's usually talking dumb stuff and doing an activity -- nice stress relief.
Finally a woman admits it.
Sounds like the same reason as men do, except usually for longer term reasons.
We call it orbiters.
8:00
Women want to have their cake and eat it too.
So i'm not being friendzoned???
Most of my friends are women. If I'm anyone's back up they need to form a que
I think it is easier for men to have platonic relationships with women that they don’t find sexually attracted to and vice versa.
Briffaults law.
Why not?
10:51 NZT I'm wondering how all this works for the LGBTQIA+ ... Which again all of those sub groups will be different as well.