Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel's influence on Rey and Episode IX
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- We discuss how Star Wars Episode IX, The Rise of Skywalker, has similarities with superhero movies and how the fairly recent successes of female-lead Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel might have caused some influences in its production and planning.
We also comment on other superhero movies and Marvel movies, such as Endgame. We note the different tropes in Marvel and DC and Star Wars, and how some plot points were poorly copied from movies like Wonder Woman.
We also discuss Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, Black Widow and Harley Quinn.
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In the end the writers didnt respect rey enough to make her a character they left her as a hollow empowerment doll and threw it at women as if we should be satisfied with that... we need more diverse and developed character traits in powerful women generally
What nonsense. The writers, JJ in particular, literally understood Rey perfectly. JJ literally created Rey and understood her deep and profound psychological flaws and why in Episode 9 Rey’s arc is so incredibly emotional and satisfying. Rey is one of the most complex and psychologically nuanced characters.
@@ReySkywalker2 I suppose that’s your opinion. I agree with the original poster, and I generally liked the sequel trilogy up until episode IX.
In episode 7, Rey was an intriguing character. She had vulnerabilities (loneliness, always having to fend for herself) and she was so headstrong by being molded by this harsh Jakku environment her whole life.
Somewhere along the way, the writers of this trilogy decided to make her a two-dimensional cardboard character. I found myself not caring about what happened to her by the end of IX. She was just..there, never really given any humanity or inner demons to work though. I just didn’t care anymore.
@@ReySkywalker2 I suppose that’s your opinion. I agree with the original poster, and I generally liked the sequel trilogy up until episode IX.
In episode 7, Rey was an intriguing character. She had vulnerabilities (loneliness, always having to fend for herself) and she was so headstrong by being molded by this harsh Jakku environment her whole life.
Somewhere along the way, the writers of this trilogy decided to make her a two-dimensional cardboard character. I found myself not caring about what happened to her by the end of IX. She was just..there, never really given any humanity or inner demons to work though. I just didn’t care anymore.
Rey unfortunately never seems to fully resolve or come to terms with her inner demons. In TROS everything "negative" for her appears to be neatly swept under the rug. All those inner feelings and desires of hers are jammed into a box labeled "DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE." Her character truly becomes the queen of denial.
the reality is that many star wars fans see the Jedi as a power fantasy, specifically concerning physical strength, and since the current mainstream definitions of power in films are from marvel superheroes, the directors tried to update the Jedi power fantasy to resemble marvel's. TBH this shows imaginative bankruptcy and a lack of understanding of what makes the jedi special more than anything else. So uncivilized
Very true. It's almost as if they wanted to "update" the meaning of being a Jedi to fit current trends. While at the same time bringing older characters to feed nostalgia. In the end it makes 0 sense and has no thematic cohesion.
What nonsense. The writers, JJ in particular, literally understood Rey perfectly. JJ literally created Rey and understood her deep and profound psychological flaws and why in Episode 9 Rey’s arc is so incredibly emotional and satisfying. Rey is one of the most complex and psychologically nuanced characters.
I've missed you girls so much! This upload made my day! 💜
49:35 Black Widow in different comics married or had a love relantioship with basically EVERY male Avenger member (except for a few like Thor and Black Phanter but for obvious reasons), wich of course fans hated this "lack" of romantic pairing in the cinematic version.
P.S: if really Lucasfilm wanted Rey to resemble an Marvel heroine, then Wanda is knocking the door since Infinity War (ironically Ben like Vision) and recently with the upcoming "WandaVision" tv series on Disney+.
Your talking about how male directors and writers try to appeal to women and fail so badly reminded me of a certain scene from season 2 of The Boys, which, for those who don't know, takes the idea of superheroes are brings them to a very dark extreme. You know that Hollywood's "dudebro" attitude is getting bad when female "heroine" Stormfront, an honest to God Nazi who wants elevate those with powers to be the new master race, calls out the shows version of J.J. Abrams for making women either the damsel in distress or an utter bitch. And she gets cheered.
As for the last bit of TROS, when Rey was walking into the sunset I didn't really get the sense that this was the end of her story. When Luke did that it marked the beginning of his adventures, and word around the campfire is that DLF will eventually continue Rey's story, and by extension they will have to continue Ben's. He's already getting an animated series on Disney+, or it's at least in early development, which shows that Disney is acknowledging how popular Ben is. And sooner or later they will run out of in-universe time to cover everything leading up to TROS. After that it's just beating a dead horse, where as they can bring him back from the dead, and there are several ways for that to happen, and make Ben a Rey a cash cow begging to be milked.
My main problem with TROS is that they introduce Rey Palpatine and do nothing with it.
They show that she can accidentally use Force Lightning, but not be able to do it intentionally? The final showdown would have been far more interesting if Palpatine fired lightning and Rey was able to counter/block it. Similar to the Aang and Ozai final battle in ATLA, where the villain uses lightning trying to kill the hero and the hero is able to control and redirect it.
In my version of the final battle after Palpatine casts Ben Solo into the abyss and Rey stands up, there's a lightning beam struggle between them that ends in a stalemate. Then the resolution arrives when Ben climbs out of the abyss picks up the legacy saber and impales Palpatine while he's distracted. Then he loses control of his lightning and it ends up killing him. At least this way they both contribute to the victory and both survive and Rey's lineage can still be important.
Oh, agreed. It's funny, when we read the leaks and saw Rey Palpatine we thought it made no sense because it had 0 impact on the plot... Love your theory for a force lightning battle. It would show Rey as "empowered" and yet make sense in the context of Star Wars. They could even make her feeling tempted by the dark side, then Kylo saves her. But no. So much potential and they chose something so stupid.
I am amazed how you girls find these analogies! Missed you! My favorite podcast 😍
Thanks!
Disney really hasn't done too well with female characters recently. Just look at all their live action remakes. And while the original animated characters were a little problematic, they still had more character development.
I must say this is the best star wars podcast I've listen to. Keep up with the good work!
Thanks!
Thank you for discussing this important and nuanced issue that was on the forefront of my mind walking out of TROS, and drove so much of my disappointment. As upset as I was over Ben's death and the destruction of the Skywalker bloodline (and honestly WHERE WAS ANAKIN!?), I was also devastated that they took the relatable and intriguingly rich character of "New Anakin" to Ben's "New Vader" TLJ Rey (so unusual for a female character in film), and flattened and contorted TROS Rey into a subpar and unlikable version of the "women" that in their profoundly narrow view Hollywood continues to shove down our throats. Wish we could be having a different conversation than "what should have been," but as usual appreciate your strong work.
I love ReyLo, loved your SWC channel, and your ongoing commitment and passion for Star Wars. i too have a love of and attachment to SW. it took me some time but I love the ST, including TROS. I hope someone does great work to reveal a child of Rey and Ben down the road but to know that once again love saved the world, and redeemed Kylo, and Ben did what Anakin could not-save the one he loved from dying- ❤️❤️❤️❤️ and that Rey was saved too, having stopped Kylo who did not want to kill her but was still not redeemed and wanted to rule the galaxy without remorse for the massacres or murders he perpetrated- Rey used the force to bring him back- Kylo-not Ben, he was still Kylo then but Rey felt the Force go off balance with Leia’s loving sacrifice. I agree the Force is not a superpower or power one has. you raised interesting parallels but Leia’s love for her son, Han’s love, support and forgiveness (not his blaster or fast talking “super powers”) -to me that is absolutely SW and an awesome way to conclude their arcs and immortalize their legacy . Thank you for all of your thoughtful broadcasts ✌🏼⭐️ May the Force be with you 👏🏽
That's awesome. There are redeeming qualities in TROS, for sure. This is just reflection on how the Marvel influence might have caused some issues in TROS.
To me this a problem that goes beyond movies. Sometimes people can't really make up their minds on what they want from female characters or women in general. Other than "STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS"! Then never explaining on what they mean on STRONG INDEPENDENT WOMAN! For me, I just want good characters. Regardless of whatever gender they're in between their legs.
Great video. I liked the mentions of Sansa Stark/Petyr Baelish and Carol Danvers / Jon-Rogg too.
I didn't like Captain Marvel as a movie but I loved the scene towards the end when her mentor was basically trying to get her to prove herself to him by fighting him without her powers. But she doesn't do it and I thought that was perfect. The idea that women have to prove themselves is what I hated most about TRoS. But I agree with everything else you said about the role basically being gender neutral so it doesn't feel like I'm really watching the first female lead marvel movie.
Rey didn't choose to be a Skywalker she asked for permission just like she had to earn "Lukes" saber, she had to earn his name as well.
Very creepy to have to earn Luke's "saber" and name. 1000 yikes.
Hey there, really enjoyed the video! I would love to get these as audio only, are you on audea?
Hello there!
General Kenobi!
I didn’t get the Wonder Woman/Captain Marvel references but I definitely got a Marvel vibe. Rey’s “I am all the Jedi” made me laugh out loud and found myself thinking about RDJs “I am Iron Man” moment. I also found myself wondering if Disney was going for a “heroic sacrifice” a la Iron Man but they didn’t spend enough time building up the tragedy of Ben Solo to have much of an impact. Don’t even get me started on the “Rey Skywalker” nonsense. I hated this movie so much. What a horrible end to a much loved franchise. It’s a pity too, because Rey, Finn and Kylo/Ben had such strong introductions. Kylo fared the best but Rey and Finn were ultimately useless characters. Poe was an afterthought despite how great Oscar Issac is. This movie really soured me on the whole of Star Wars.
Oh, yes, that Endgame ripoff was terrible. We think the WW/CM was more in the sense that they thought making Rey be "badass" would draw a crowd. Maybe it does, but you need more than just that.
Èlite:
Lù: I killed Polo by accident.
The others: Ok, it was an accident.
Baby:
Chiara: I became a prostitute, 'cause I was bored. ( For the same reason that Dianna became Wonder Woman)
The others: Ok, you need a chance.
Star Wars:
Rey: I brought peace to the universe.
The others: You have to punished very hard for that.
I don't think the creators see it as a punishment. I think they think her being the new "Skywalker" is an achievement or something.
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My lovely girls. I love you ❤️
You know what I'm going to make this simple. If it hadn't been for Rey we wouldn't have Wonder Woman 2017 and Captain Marvel 2019. Thank you Rey thank you Daisy Ridley.
I see your point, but they'd been thinking about a Wonder Woman since 2006. Production for WW started in 2013 and Patty Jenkins was hired in 2015, before TFA came out, and the script was finished already. So I don't think WW was based on Rey and TFA's success.
@@LordsoftheSithPodcast Right. Besides, action movies with female leads were already a trend, when TFA came out. In the same year we had Furiosa and the last appearance of Katniss. And let's not forget about all action ladies that came before them.