My conspiracy theory was that after a lot of A/B testing (that RUclips always do when they release stuff like this) they noticed that people just simply spent more time on RUclips when there was no dislike bar (a high dislike count being another reason to leave a video). This would benefit them short-term but long-term people would get tired by constantly getting baited by troll channels clickbaiting, not delivering and there being no way to tell before you've already wasted a good amount of time on a video.
The problem with that line of thinking is that ignores the fact that people are more likely to dislike a video without watching it, out of spite than leave a like even if they watched the entire video. Realisticly, if you go anywhere on the internet that discussed it, you see a lot of whine about being unable to punish "crappy creators" and "scams and clickbait". And that's true, the vast majority of dislikes on a video are spite-dislikes. Go look at the top ten videos with the most dislikes, and you'll see it's pretty much all music videos with half of them being childrens songs. Now removing the dislike button might make it friendlier to marketers, but that's missing the point. You don't come to youtube to watch corporate content unless that IS the content you want. You know what else is corporate content? Hololive. And they make far more money on youtube than your average no-nothing clickbait video.
@@rll1236 Or people would leave for another platform like Reddit where "dislikes" are still in place and higher quality is assured. RUclips wants to guarantee that people stay on their website for as long as possible which is why the algorithm promotes videos that does this (good watch time) even if there's an endless stream of videos that people could go to next.
This was my exact theory. They are trying to implement any destructive way to keep people on the platform, and watching nonstop videos. It’s how advertisers measure the platforms reach and engagement. RUclips needs us to click on as many videos and watch them for as long as possible. The more time we spend here, the bigger the brand contract and payout to RUclips. It’s all about money and nothing else. It has nothing to do with safety and safe spaces.
You are entirely wrong. That has nothing to do with their decision: What DOES have to do with their decision are huge companies, say Sony, who get very pissed off when they pay to advertise on RUclips and maintain a channel then get (rightfully) review bombed. It's transparent as glass. User opinion is and was always against this and it's not helping watch time. This was a move to "protect the mental health of small creators" like Disney, MSNBC, Bloomberg, etc. It's just like how they destroyed and censored content to make advertisers happy.
Great video Devin! I use to use the like to dislike ratio to determine wether a video was worth my time or not. Especially with tutorials and reviews. Not a fan of this change at all.
Some of the most obnoxious children, some of the most difficult-to-watch videos on youtube, some of the most disliked tutorials about windows 10 have all solved problems for me and saved me hours of work and research. I agree that the "glance-value" of any video has taken a hit, but I'm hoping that this change will let good information get recommended - even if it's presently poorly by some child who just discovered video editing software.
@@gyroninjamodder It's good and I'm happy that it's removal doesn't affect you much. However, personally, I need to find whether obscure tutorials or filled with misinformation. These obscure videos would never be recommended to me, but are necessary for my research.
The biggest kick in their logic is that they're claiming it's to protect small RUclipsrs from harsh criticism and hate mobs discouraging them. But the creator can still see the dislikes anyway, so that's just straight bullshit because they're just protecting politicians and people in power that's all.
There is a massive chasm between “everyone should have a voice” and “everyone’s voice should be valued equally.” The dislike count did not remove any creator’s voice-it only provided a way to evaluate that voice. Furthermore, removing the dislike count actually removed the voices of the myriad of viewers. So RUclips has effectively silenced the viewers in favor of protecting the feelings of creators. Great video. Sometimes I feel like our minds draw from the same cloud of experiences/wisdom.
@@gyroninjamodder you are saying that if the “voice” is heard by just the creator, that counts. By that reasoning, then RUclips could allow you to upload a video but not allow it to go public and consider that a “voice”, right? I know you don’t think that... So the point of having a voice in this context is for the public to see your opinion-whether that’s a video or a dislike on the video.
@@Obelg ding ding ding. It only allows creators of disliked videos to “pretend” or save face somehow, even though they see how many dislikes they truly have. The notion that “all voices speak equal value of truth/helpfulness” is a very slippery slope and doesn’t hold up well when organizations try to make rules to enforce it. Conflict-when honest and respectful-breeds growth.
Shielding shit creators doesn't shield society it just let's bad ideas and bad actors continue to propagate and be the cancer that they are. You did a spot on criticism!
The issue I have with this take is that creators are still able to see the dislikes, so how is this helping the creator and not public perception? I dont understand.
@@SpeculatorSeth right. But there isnt targeted disliking campaigns on small creators (not materially). So again. How is this not a change directed towards the public perception of large creators, specifically not advertisers per sey. But for corporations that use youtube to promote their products.
The argument would be that the targeted dislike campaigns will be not be encouraged by watching the large number of dislikes increase, so there will be fewer dislikes
@@Dipsy827 There are. Usually such targeted campaigns are led by bots though. RUclips has no way of knowing which users are completely legit though. So who can say how widespread it is? I only have 6k subs, and it has happened to me on occasion.
I now feel less protected from scamvidoes or blatantly incompetent/incorrect videos about topics. Before the Like/Dislike ratio gave a signal to a certain degree how worth it is to watch, how true the content is and just generally how good it is.
@@Fakery almost every video on learning about how to work on engines or on which cleaning/ any useful products actually worked and making sure it wasn’t just a well formed add for an expensive but sh.t product. I use RUclips to help me find solutions to issues and now I have to dig through garbage videos thanks to this. Many many videos I have clicked on had awful trolling comments saying it works, yet the dislike ratio was enough for me to realize its just trash. And the comments are just trolls or more adverts. I wish comments had a dislike ratio number for this reason as well. Now every terrible troll-baiting video feels meaningless when you hit the dislike button. No one will see it. And my negative comments get deleted as soon as I post them.
No, it didn't. Did everyone get brainwashed by Marques Brownlee's video? Dude, all you have to do is look for videos with a lot of likes. Bad tutorials and scams don't get many likes. This isn't rocket science.
@@AchannelA I legit don't know who that is. Scam videos absolutely can get high likes if they just buy a few likes. But when you saw a high dislike ratio based on the amount of views even if it had a lot of likes you knew something was amiss.
No, its not to protect small creators. The small creators actually benefit from having the dislike visible as if they have more likes, its add more credibility to them.
I'm going to disagree with your conclusions. This decision lines up with RUclips management's goals to make money, and their perception that this would make advertising and media partners more comfortable with the platform. I don't think this is some "shadowy conspiracy", and it's kind of a weak debate tactic on your part to straw man the alternate view by framing it as conspiratorial. It's actually the least conspiratorial thing of all to expect that Google/RUclips wants to increase profit and that the management team of RUclips is incentivized - both by their job security and their bonus structure - to make decisions in line with this goal. So why would they think removing dislikes is a good financial move, or that it makes the platform more friendly to media partners? Well, think of Will Smith. He's a hollywood celebrity who they convinced to headline RUclips Rewind, and it was massively disliked by the community. You don't think that would be a tough pill to swallow? RUclips has been trying to "class up the joint" by partnering with celebrities, brands, big TV networks - and make them feel at home and safe on the platform, and then the pesky viewers gave them a black eye. Ghostbusters (2016) is another example of when the negative reaction overshadowed the campaign (and not to the benefit of the movie studio - ask Sony). Think of the Kendall Jenner Pepsi ad. In the first 24 hours it got 1.6 million views on RUclips, and 5x as many dislikes as likes. The public backlash killed the commercial, and had everyone apologizing. RUclips wasn't the only place where the backlash manifested, but it became the immediately reportable measure that everyone could point to in other media. I'm sure you remember the flight of advertisers from RUclips that happened around the time of Logan Paul's suicide forest video. You can argue that advertisers don't care about bad impressions, but only up to a certain point: it's clear from the actions taken since adpocalypse that RUclips's mandate is to sanitize the platform and provide reassurance to advertisers and media partners. They're sick of RUclips dislikes becoming embarrassing headlines (immediately reportable measure) for politicians, celebrities and companies. There may be junior teams who literally proposed this policy change for the stated reasons, but make no mistake, senior management wouldn't have approved it unless they judged it a financial win. That's their job.
I'm probably disconnected, but I've never heard content creators having problems with dislikes - amazingly the most toxic area is still alive - the comments! But both should not be hidden. A world built on no winners or losers and only participation ribbons isn't the real world.
comment's are censored beyond belief tho. Sometimes mild comments like "that item is really sh it you shouldn't use it" get deleted because it might hurt someone's feelings.
Awesome video! My question after hearing all this is, why doesn't RUclips revert the change at this point? Surely they weren't expecting THIS much backlash from both viewers AND creators. Their goal in this change was to help creators, so seeing that even the creators are just as upset by this change, doesn't that defeat the original purpose of the change? Can we expect them to revert it at some point or is this actually a new normal?
Maybe they did expect this much backlash. But regardless, they did not revert it because of the exact reason Devin pointed out, they really believe they are helping the small creators, and no one is making a point to counter that. What everyone is doing is pointing out other consequences of the decision, which RUclips most likely has already considered. But they believe that the good done by this change outweighs the bad that everyone is pointing out. What we need to do is not to backlash, but to clearly show why the trade off is not worth it, and possibly show alternatives of helping smaller creators while also not making the youtube experience worse.
Then popular creators like yourself, like your rl content btw, need to work together to tell youtube otherwise. If enough do so then way more likely to revert.
@@devagr You really contradicted yourself there. You’re saying RUclips already considered the bad that everyone is pointing out but then suggest a solution of pretty much pointing out bad (by bringing in trade offs). If what you say about RUclips believing they are in the right is true, then no amount of civil discussions of trade offs or other solutions will change their mind.
If this update remains in effect for the foreseeable future, I hope that RUclips provides a setting that allows creators to opt-in to displaying the public dislike counter on their videos (channel-wide or on a per-video basis). Especially since I create tutorials, I want the true reception of my content to be visible to viewers, whether good, mixed, or bad, in order to demonstrate more transparency and credibility from the get-go.
I would be surprised if they did that, because if they did, then the people who don't opt into public dislikes would be looked at negatively, the same way we all looked at people who turn off comments and who turn off ALL likes and dislikes. It looks like RUclips doesn't want us to have a metric to gauge whether or not a video is good or not, and so allowing RUclipsrs to opt into the public dislike button would potentially have the side effect of giving us a metric to gauge whether or not a video is good. They should just make everyone's dislikes public again. People will begin to get frustrated with RUclips. Especially with "How To" videos where the tutorial is trash, but you don't get to realize it until you've already wasted 10 minutes of your time.
This is about protecting unpopular politicians. A good company would want to know when something is disliked, so they can improve. Not many people bother to hit a dislike button that doesn't work.
yet again the whole "safe space" situation is slowly destroying the world. it reminds me of the game "We Happy Few" where everyone has to be false and fake being happy all the time.
I love the "I'm going to tell you the secrets of the world but first a word from out sponsers!" Your smirk while transitioning to your call to action is the best.
There was another change on the platform a couple of months ago, disabling videos for EU countries for "18+" content, so that you had to upload your credit card information or a photo of your ID to prove your age. Now I could not watch a ZBrush tutorial about how to sculpt the female form, that was flagged, but a giant artist with a music video that showed real women topless I could see. Now why is that? I think corporate greed, they don't care about small creators because they don't generate a lot of ad revenue for RUclips, but this big music artist does, so it's not flagged. So I don't trust that disabling the view of dislikes is to "protect" small content creators, wich is their official reason as of why they did it.
Its interesting how I just Finished FFXIV Endwalker and a core concept was about how we need to have struggles/hardships to create a better tomorrow. Shielding people from the negative leads to apathy and mediocrity
I've canceled my RUclips subscription. After seeing the censorship, demonetizing and deplatforming of many of my favorite channels, hiding the dislikes made the decision easy. I'll be moving to platforms which support freedom of speech.
I think the news networks are to blame for this. Since the start of the pandemic their like to dislike ratio was not a good thing to see. Because people caught up to their biased opinions and their hard attempts to shove their opinions down the tube. I personally think the dislike button should be disabled only to news networks who we no longer care about anyways.
I actual realised this while watching a JRE video where they were talking about flat earthers and dinosaurs never existed content creators, RUclips is basically removing the ability for the public to pier review content on RUclips which is going to allow these sort of ridiculous ideas like the earth is flat to spread to more people instead of people seeing that the video has more dislikes than like and skipping it because it's obviously wrong they are going to watch it and start to think it's true
dislikes increases the engagement on the video if anything disliking the video would cause it to spread to more people most people don't check the like / dislike ratio
@@gyroninjamodder that is still going to happen the difference now is people can't see the video is being down voted and are more likely to think the information in the video is correct the rate of trust me a dude on RUclips said so is going to increase because of this
Those sorts of videos and content creators were utterly destroyed in around 2014-15. It's rare that anything that out of the norm will make it here nowadays. I always wondered why people hate those vids so much? Who/what does it hurt really? If they're obviously wrong, wouldn't that be indicated in the likes/dislikes and comments? Or was it again to protect people from themselves? This situation is no different than the first large takedown of flat earth, dinosaurs/evolution, 9/11, etc. It was worse then. RUclips may be run by people but the algorithm has a 'mind of its own.' And back then I saw it all happen. Would actually make a good video documentary, but then again, that would likely get removed so why bother?
I think you are on the right track but came to the wrong conclusion. RUclips is removing the ability to pier review videos, but not so that people spend more time watching conspiracy theories. It the algorithm should follow what the demand (viewers) want to watch. The reality is people love to watch conspiracy theory videos. RUclips has many times shown (and other social media platforms) that they prioritize and culture and viewpoint that they want to foster on their platform over pure profit or watchtime. By limiting the ability of the user base to drive content on their platform, it them places more control in RUclips's hands as to what content their viewers are being recommended.
I find it mind blowing how they’re trying to protect people from feeling bad, but in your creator dashboard you can see the amount of dislikes per video, it’s such a silly “update”
You ‘landed the plan’ much differently than I was expecting. Very well said. There has to be a way to protect the people being attacked with the dislike button while also leaving the dislike button up to serve as a warning when need be.
As I understand it, it doesn't remove the counter on the creator side. So this is about manipulating audiences, not about protecting creators. At least not the crestors that don't matter (which is everyone that isn't MSM, an "authoritative source" or and approved and white-listed propaganda repeater for the cathedral.)
CABBAGE BRAIN TAKE: My whole view of the situation is that I think it should stay optional for creators but seems like a weird thing to impose on all of the site's users. Point is made, though, that most video sites don't even use dislikes, but I think any negative predictions, such as Asmon's, are a bit premature. It probably won't even effect much.
As someone who has been an account holder since RUclips’s inception, this new direction disappoints me. I’ve come to utilize the platform for its search function and removing the dislike feature now defeats that purpose. Going into 2022, I will cancel my paid subscription and delete my channel to show my displeasure and exercise my power. RUclips is in for a rude awakening. If they continue to go against their users, this platform will be of NO TRUE VALUE and eventually collapse. I will bring more attention to this topic over on TikTok. Until then, I’ll support my favs through monthly donations. I suggest others do the same.
It's been a few days only, and i already experienced all the downsides that i was expecting from this change. It's seriously annoying when looking to informational content, tutorials or things like that, cause you can't get a feeling if the video is worth your time or not. Or if its just one more bullshit video, cause it happens a lot. I already wished to see dislike on probably 10 videos i watched this last days. So yeah... I also am a small french youtuber, and seriously if i have dislikes it usualy represents well the opinion of people and helps to get better. So i dont mind seeing them, btw protecting from attacks when the youtuber still can see his own dislikes is pretty dumb, cause it's still possible to hurt someones feeling.
@@freebachelor5060 that's my point. They are saying that its removed cause it will affect creators cause of targeted dislikes attack.. but if the creator can still look at his dislike, how is he "protected" from it. So 1) its dumb to "protect" people from dislikes.. 2) its not even working if creator can still see that lots of people dont like the video So basicly the only good thing possible here, is that people wont leave the video before seeing it, even if their is a lot of dislikes. But its also a bad thing.. probably way worst thing in fact.
@@Telekdays Sorry, I actually missed the part at the end where you noted that you can still see the dislikes. Nevermind! Honestly, I never bother w/the like/dislike ratio so it doesn't bother me much.
"call me crazy" i think this was for the political stage... an iron curtain, we will be pushed and used to feed agendas that would naturally be concerning or disagreed or "disliked" with because the "idea" portrayed seems to be a good one, when in reality it is not a shared or liked view. without dislikes i cant tell what's manufactured or authentic..
My concern with the dislikes gone is that was the last reliable way to determine public opinion. A channel could hold all comments for review and filter everything. I wasn’t aware until recently that you cannot tell if your comment is public or not without going into incognito or logging out. RUclips even automatically holds some comments for review. Very strange system if you ask me.
The thing you haven't really mentioned here Devin is the fact that they won't revert the change unless views on RUclips start going down and I don't think views are gonna drop any time soon.
They forgot to consider viewers in their decision. RUclips suddenly has begun to think they are a social network but it has channels, not profile pages. People are here for the viewing experience, to have fun, to learn and experience things, similar to reading a book but with video, like a tv show, that's why pages are called channels, the icon is a TV, and the name includes Tube - a nickname for TV. Likes only makes sense for profiles and social media posts, but it doesn't make sense for channels and videos. RUclips wants to be Facebook so bad they are going to become Myspace.
My thoughts on this..... everything is about control and that people aren't aware about how much control has been taken from people already and when they do find out well it's way too late.
Devin, it's EXACTLY the feeling I had about this change! It's not some shadow corporate conspiracy, it's more political correctness and avoiding being offended! Thanks for the video, I wish more ppl would hear and understand this. What I also find incredibly ironic is that they mention not wanting to silence voices in the community... while doing exactly that with this change on even a larger scale?!
here's my thing with this, as a millennial who works with people ranging from high school to retirement i notice how the internet has affected a lot of us who grew up with it. we are much more open to discourse and conversations that counter our belief system. not saying we are more accepting but having that same conversation with someone who is say a little older tends to either simply fall on deaf ears or it turns into a toddler temper tantrum. and i think its not about creating "safe spaces" i think its about creating subcategories where people can just find people of their own temperament and mindset just like every generation before us. its about finding a place you fit in. but overall i do agree that removing the dislike button is bad. even a "targeted" attack on someones dislike button is still a uptick in the analytics. its like paying me a dollar everytime you talk to me to tell me i suck. "i said you suck 50 times!" great. cool. you put dinner on the table tonight ive done worse work at a 9-5.
I've seen people commenting "dislike" since they can't hit a button. If a video is really bad it will get lots of "dislikes" YT's algorithm will see this as engagement & will end up recommending the video MORE. -Cecil Trachenburg @GoodBadFlicks Did @RUclips play 4D chess on us
It's like when friends say they watched my videos. Most say "it's good" but when I ask for any criticism they have few. Either they didn't really watch it or they don't want to hurt my feeling. So I'm stuck with nothing specific to correct, wondering well if it's good then why is retention low? Obviously it ain't all constructive, but I'd rather work harder with a chip on my shoulder and not just spin my happy feel good wheels and go nowhere.
Pre suission by Robert Cialdini had a good point about asking for advice instead of feedback. When you ask for advice people are less likely to try and just make you feel good.
@@MorganMindfulness I'll give that a try, thanks! Definitely not something I would have thought of. But that's a good example of how a little change in wording changes how the message hits.
I can't see this sticking. The tutorial genre is destroyed with it and that's too important of a genre. With this alternative tech has a chance to completely destroy RUclips. Thus I think this will be like the Google+ situation a few years back (they will walk it back and never mention it again). Then again there's a less than intelligent woman in charge...
How does your theory at 13:10 make any sense when content creators can still see their own dislike count? Therefore they'll still feel bad if they receive dislikes, seems like you didn't think this one through..
- Statista - Largest Social Media Platforms. RUclips is an outlier with a Dislike button in this era of social media having all heart buttons. Facebook has an Angry button, but at least buttons representing emotional responses still maintain the distinction between objective and subjective and showcase someone's negative opinion as an opinion. - Only the public dislike count was removed, not the button itself. This is because RUclips uses Dislike as an algorithm button and encourages people to Dislike things to tune their algorithm recommendations. You can search for the tweets if you know what to type. RUclips's support reps have actually been doing this with RUclips Music, where a Dislike is similar to a dislike on a service like Pandora in terms of "don't show me this." - Spam, Scams, and Deceptive Content is a huge way people lose channels when creating deceptive videos. You can find the angry tweets very easily on Twitter too. - RUclips needs its creators more and more these days in an era where the biggest of rightsholders are getting out of the RUclips ecosystem and launching their own CDNs like Pluto, Peacock, and all the numerous "Plus" streaming services these days. Even if big brands were a factor, RUclips couldn't count on them outside of advertising. - A small creator who can't take criticism was already going to go nowhere - with or without a dislike button. RUclips could pull a Dailymotion and remove comments too if they really wanted to, but no system RUclips can roll out is going to change the need to view civil feedback as a gift. This applies in the offline world too when you have those stuck-up small business owners who don't keep it professional, tank their business, but play the blame game anyway and never take responsibility for anything. - You should be more than familiar with the A.S.S. (Angry Small Streamer) scene on Twitch in terms of small content creators who barely get Twitch Affiliate and barely get anywhere after that because of something wrong with them, and that's in an environment with no likes or dislikes. 😏 There is far more to the story than what you're talking about here. If you went on vacation from your Novo bubble for a bit you'd know more about the other stuff. 🙂
I'm incredibly petty, so I refuse to purchase anything from brands that have irritating advertisements. When I was a teenager I heard a guy talk about how companies will deliberately advertise in irritating ways to create a longer lasting impressions. Ever since then I deliberately work at remembering the negative impressions I've had so as not to support that company in the future. One example is Twix, I so utterly hated the whole left side vs right side Twix advertisements that I will not buy the candy bars. I even went so far a few times to email companies to let them know that I saw their dumb commercial and I would not be purchasing their products ever. I think it was after the first RUclips adpocalypse that every other commercial was for Axe body spray so I emailed Axe corporate and told them I was boycotting their products because their ads were so atrocious. I got a semi-apologetic response from them, but I also realize as I'm typing this out this pretty much makes me a weird internet person ^ ^; As for the main point of the video, I appreciate Devin's perspective. Creating safe spaces free from criticism and being able to express dislikes is like trying to "help" a butterfly by breaking open it's chrysalis when you see it struggling to get out. The struggle is what gives it the strength to survive. RUclips's concept of safety is ultimately handicapping and weakening new content creators.
Man I hate to be the one to tell you, but your petty frustration and choice to never buy those companies products has led you to inadvertently give those products free exposure to the thousands of people reading this comments sections. I might have to go buy a Twix just for you 😂
I remember when people got instructed to put their phone in the microwave to dry it out after dropping it in water. I wonder if stuff like that will happen again.
Much respect Devin. I think you did make an excellent point. But undercut it by focusing too much on your pro corpo bias. Corporations are run by humans, with emotions and feeling. And I've learned many execs take things personally too often. I have no doubt the dislike bombings of corporate content are a factor in this. Not the entire reason, but definitely a factor. The Anti Corpo bias isn't any better to be fair. Shitty on corporations as a Contrarian Reflex is not an improvement over a Pro Corpo bias. I find it interesting that you deny it's a factor at all.
Yeah, no, I still don't think youtube is being honest, don't think they actually believe they are helping creators. Cause here's the most important thing: the dislikes aren't available TO THE PUBLIC. They are still available to the creator in RUclips Studio. And creators, especially the small ones who supposedly need the most protective, are normally the ones obsessing over their analytics. How does hiding public dislikes help if they can still see them? If a group of people is organizing a dislike raid, they can still open the video, click on the dislike button, and know they did the thing. Even if they can't see it, a group committed to dislike bombing isn't going to let that stop them. And besides, there's always the comments section: yet another way of dislike bombing, only a lot more hurtful and personal. There is definitely some hidden reason for this, because the stated reason makes NO sense
Devin I wish you didnt wait so long to reveal youtube's real motive and why that's a problem because I fear most of the people who needed to hear it will have left before getting that far.
Do you think RUclips had anybody in mind when they talked about creators getting targeted? The two big creators I think about when it comes to this targeted dislike bombing is Leafy and commentary community vs Pokimane. But is there anybody else they could be talking about? PS: Nice taste in music Devin Double PS: I don't think the Kingdom of Heaven quote applies well here, but then again I think the moral dilemma of the good man and the evil king is a false one. Anyway, it's not evil to have dislike buttons or to dislike a video if you didn't like it. The tradeoffs between having a dislike button and not a dislike button can be seen from observing Twitter.
Conner McClure Conner McClure 0 seconds ago Did the comment I posted literally 10 minutes ago seriously already get removed because I spoke the actual truth about why the dislike button was taken down??? That absolutely earns the apparent "first" dislike for this video from me... The second it gets brought back is the second I will turn my dislike back into a like. (BTW I had originally liked this video). Oh and just because they make 7 Billion annually DOES NOT mean they aren't always hungry to make 8, 9 or hell even 20 Billion annually. CORPS NEVER STOP. THEY ALWAYS WANT MORE duhhh.... and it's BECAUSE THESE HUGE CORPSORATIONS ARE MANY PEOIPLE CONTROLLING IT therefore If this gets removed a 2nd time (this post is 10x more polite BTW than my 1st still-truthful post stating how RUclips blocking dislikes is absolutely to protect the 73%-80% disliked Joe Biden (Actual accurate "monthly" stats gradually growing from 40% from 7ish months ago FYI), And how I mentioned that our government is censoring the entire internet starting just a few months ago actually!! Including Wiki they tried to slam into a docile position just last week (literally look into it before hating people!), But I also said the the CCP (China regime) Does/Did the SAME THING when they first started off yrs back slowly conditioning the general populous into accepting there thumbs on the scale per-say)------- If this guy truleyt means what he says about being an "honest youtuber/content maker" he will not remove this post again.... Oh and Devin just a fair warning to you brother I design and sell macros that play videogames for people on a very high intelectuasl level.... i literally have over 4,000 "ghosts" as i call them basically robo-youtubers that will post this exact post 4k times per 10mins if this gets removed a 2nd time. Just keep this post up dude till get pushed down from comments anyways. Just allow the truth/my truth as you get to post/speak your truth. Much love all, and keep your heads up high my fellow us citizens! =)
RUclips rewind has lots of likes; you cannot see many more dislikes. So videos look better. Is that not simple as that? You can still attack the highly disliked videos, as creator will see
Devin, your idea behind the dislike button is one of the few things that has made 100% sense since this came out. RUclips is absolutely making a safe space, similar to how certain subreddits that simply opposed the beliefs of the Mods, so they banned them. Major websites and social platforms have started to silence the voice of contradictions, and that is terrifying. Even if it’s something I disagree with, if you aren’t hurting anyone, you have a right to think however you want.
No, you had the answer with your 10 minute explanation but came to the wrong conclusion. As you said, the most important thing to a Brands is, Engagement. The reason youtube removed the dislike count is to essentially force people to watch a video they wouldn't have otherwise watched; which in turn exposes them to more advertisements. RUclips understood it's consumers were using the dislike count to decide whether or not to watch a video (a video that isn't watched doesn't generate any revenue) - by removing the dislike count people are forced to engage with a video, which increases the chance they're exposed to a Brands advertisement...the point being to generate more revenue for youtube. Corporate greed at it's finest.
I agree with what you said that removing the Dislike Visibility does reduce conflict and confrontation. However, one thing I see that can be good from this change is that it encourages the viewers to express their thoughts through the Comment Section and start a conversation. This could greatly impact smaller channels where the viewers refuse to even leave a Comment and just be contented by leaving a Dislike.
The worst thing about this change is that because it's not easy to differentiate between good and bad content is that I'll accumulate watch time on bad videos on accident and wind up with lower quality content in my feed with no way to break the cycle. At this point if I don't find it in search or it isn't in my subscription feed, I simply don't watch it and this is difficult because youtube's primary goal is to push recommendations. They defy their own objectives with this on top of making the user experience considerably worse as I have to use the features of the site youtube doesn't prioritize.
100% agree. Part of me must Wonder why people are going into something like RUclips that is very public-facing if they don't have thick enough skins to handle it. It also speaks to the week nature of our culture. Does nobody have strength and fortitude anymore? Is no one able to face adversity and overcome it? I think the answer is yes. However these changes cater to the minority of people. And it doesn't do them any favors. They need to learn to deal with these sorts of things in their lives. Dislikes and negative comments. Give me a break. That's nothing. What are they going to do if there ever any actual physical situation in real life if they can't handle things like this online? People don't need protection. They need to be exposed to these things more and learn to overcome them and deal with them.
Great video! Great thesis!!! RUclips has been nearly unusable as a consumer since this change. It takes 10x longer to find helpful content. It took me watching 5 videos before yours to find anything usable and thought provoking. Hopefully RUclips and the community recognizes this when the metrics plays out and takes action. I too do not like the muddling of confrontation and conflict. The two that constantly spur exponential growth. Nothing great happens without them. At the end of a day it’s a tool. You can major damage to someone with a hammer…but you also can make something beautiful with it. We don’t discontinue knives…or spoons bc you can smoke crack on it. Limitation to access of tools is NEVER the answer.
The worst is when you look for tennis highlights and it turns out to be highlights of a tennis video game. The dislike used to tell me this before I watched their shitty ad in the beginning.
When the change was rolled out sitewide there was a bug you could exploit to still view dislikes. One creator I follow used to get 300-500 dislikes a video in the first 24 hours, including stream reservations and premieres that hadn't aired yet. When you used the bug to view the dislikes on new videos, the number was 0-10. So the change had the exact effect RUclips wanted, for better or for worse.
This is the worst explanation anyone has offered so far and falls apart on so many little details that I don't even know where to begin. Guess 99.999% of the people disagreeing with this decision and coming to the same conclusion on why they did it and who it benefits are all wrong, but you my man know the ultimate truth. Sure chief.
I imagine this also increases watch time, as users have to watch a video to form an opinion instead of making judgement prior to viewing. This may be the true reason for the change.
I am not convinced that the negative outcomes talked about here and elsewhere are that prevalent. Like when people say they use it to decide if a video is worth watching (especially for tutorials), that just seems so minor when over 90% of videos are viewed through recommended. Try thinking about the last video that you clicked on in your recommended feed that you stopped watching because of a dislike ratio. I literally can't think of one time, personally. It makes sense that you'd be a little confused if looking at dislikes if the first thing you do, but I'd imagine that will quickly go away over time as we become more accustom to looking at just likes, views/likes, views/likes per vid on that specific channel, etc. To me this just sounds change averse and doesn't necessarily mean it won't be better in the long run. One question to ask yourself: are you having these same problems finding out whether something is bad or good on other websites that don't have dislike features? If there are other reasons that you aren't confused, nothing is stopping youtube from adding those other reasons. People not feeling bad doesn't seem as big of a deal as you make it out to be. RUclips is a big enough platform that one creator can have audience A and another can have audience B without them needing to compromise to an AB audience. It kind of seems already in line with what people do with psychographics right? I would think that phasing out the dislike button would actually help those edgy comedians not be afraid to "find their voice" as youtube phrases it. And it's not like the feedback isn't still all there for the content creator, it's just repackaged.
I’ve been super surprised with how much backlash there is, because as both a viewer and creator I don’t often even look at the likes/dislikes on a video. I guess if a video I was about to watch had an overwhelming amount of dislikes then I would use that, but I feel like most videos just float around the 95-100% like ratio.
This was SO INTERESTING!!!!!!! I never knew that RUclips really cared about their creators! I always thought that they wanted to do bad for, well, the bad reasons. But to know that they are just trying to make things better for everyone changes my perspective of RUclips (a little bit). You see RUclips still has problems when it comes to regulations and rules that are weighing creators down. They also let advertisers get away with sexual and graphic content! But it still makes me think if RUclips is trying to help their creators or if they are being abusive towards their creators for no reason. It’s strange…….
To be honest, this whole idea of minimizing confrontation is so American. I feel like they fear confrontation more than anyone else. Why else would be have the “everyone is offended by everything” meme?
US is soft af.If i have to chose betwen grey and white color id chose grey color.But in US that would mean that i hate white color,so ppl in us need to say''but i dont hate white color''.That would not happend in let say east EU
The removal of the dislike button will likely transform youtube into something else entirely. They've taken a step. I don't like where it's going but everyone seems to want a TikTok level of success.
When I tried making a RUclips channel the first issue I ran into was non-existent companies copy right striking my videos, wonder if they'll do something to fix that. Dislikes don't get a channel shut down
I think removing the dislike button is most anti-viewer move they have made, totally removing people's ability to have a voice on the content they watch...its nuts to me.
A solution could be if we all came together and agreed to pin a comment on our videos saying "DISLIKES" and the likes on that would be the dislikes lol
That's what I've already done on a few videos. No one liked my comment though and I haven't seen anyone else try that despite others also suggesting it, so it leads me to believe RUclips is censoring those comments.
I'm surprised by your take Devin but completely agree with it. At the cost of creating a positive echo-chamber, RUclips has lost transparency and the credibility of its content. It seems to be an issue across the tech industry at the moment. Battlefield 2042's scoreboard is also a good example of this. It's not so much that the scoreboard is gone, but if you're savvy, you could use it to tell who was doing nefarious things with the game like Hacking. That transparency is also now gone. Rather than this RUclips change being a gain for advertisers, it's a loss for legitimate content creators and users.
Dislikes have already been removed from the comment section for a while now and no one complained about that I think this issue is overblown and doesn’t affect the RUclips experience
My conspiracy theory was that after a lot of A/B testing (that RUclips always do when they release stuff like this) they noticed that people just simply spent more time on RUclips when there was no dislike bar (a high dislike count being another reason to leave a video). This would benefit them short-term but long-term people would get tired by constantly getting baited by troll channels clickbaiting, not delivering and there being no way to tell before you've already wasted a good amount of time on a video.
I thought about that too but people would just move on to another vid that has a better like to dislike ratio.
The problem with that line of thinking is that ignores the fact that people are more likely to dislike a video without watching it, out of spite than leave a like even if they watched the entire video.
Realisticly, if you go anywhere on the internet that discussed it, you see a lot of whine about being unable to punish "crappy creators" and "scams and clickbait". And that's true, the vast majority of dislikes on a video are spite-dislikes. Go look at the top ten videos with the most dislikes, and you'll see it's pretty much all music videos with half of them being childrens songs.
Now removing the dislike button might make it friendlier to marketers, but that's missing the point. You don't come to youtube to watch corporate content unless that IS the content you want. You know what else is corporate content? Hololive. And they make far more money on youtube than your average no-nothing clickbait video.
@@rll1236 Or people would leave for another platform like Reddit where "dislikes" are still in place and higher quality is assured. RUclips wants to guarantee that people stay on their website for as long as possible which is why the algorithm promotes videos that does this (good watch time) even if there's an endless stream of videos that people could go to next.
This was my exact theory. They are trying to implement any destructive way to keep people on the platform, and watching nonstop videos. It’s how advertisers measure the platforms reach and engagement. RUclips needs us to click on as many videos and watch them for as long as possible. The more time we spend here, the bigger the brand contract and payout to RUclips. It’s all about money and nothing else. It has nothing to do with safety and safe spaces.
You are entirely wrong. That has nothing to do with their decision: What DOES have to do with their decision are huge companies, say Sony, who get very pissed off when they pay to advertise on RUclips and maintain a channel then get (rightfully) review bombed. It's transparent as glass. User opinion is and was always against this and it's not helping watch time. This was a move to "protect the mental health of small creators" like Disney, MSNBC, Bloomberg, etc. It's just like how they destroyed and censored content to make advertisers happy.
Great video Devin! I use to use the like to dislike ratio to determine wether a video was worth my time or not. Especially with tutorials and reviews. Not a fan of this change at all.
I personally didn't look at dislikes. I just let RUclips handle recommending videos wether it be on the recommend tab or search.
guess we are all here watching Devin huh
@@GabzitoHD hahah oh hey Gabzito!
Some of the most obnoxious children, some of the most difficult-to-watch videos on youtube, some of the most disliked tutorials about windows 10 have all solved problems for me and saved me hours of work and research. I agree that the "glance-value" of any video has taken a hit, but I'm hoping that this change will let good information get recommended - even if it's presently poorly by some child who just discovered video editing software.
@@gyroninjamodder It's good and I'm happy that it's removal doesn't affect you much. However, personally, I need to find whether obscure tutorials or filled with misinformation. These obscure videos would never be recommended to me, but are necessary for my research.
The biggest kick in their logic is that they're claiming it's to protect small RUclipsrs from harsh criticism and hate mobs discouraging them. But the creator can still see the dislikes anyway, so that's just straight bullshit because they're just protecting politicians and people in power that's all.
Well said
There is a massive chasm between “everyone should have a voice” and “everyone’s voice should be valued equally.” The dislike count did not remove any creator’s voice-it only provided a way to evaluate that voice.
Furthermore, removing the dislike count actually removed the voices of the myriad of viewers.
So RUclips has effectively silenced the viewers in favor of protecting the feelings of creators.
Great video. Sometimes I feel like our minds draw from the same cloud of experiences/wisdom.
The dislikes can still be seen by the creator. You still have a "voice"
@@gyroninjamodder you are saying that if the “voice” is heard by just the creator, that counts. By that reasoning, then RUclips could allow you to upload a video but not allow it to go public and consider that a “voice”, right? I know you don’t think that...
So the point of having a voice in this context is for the public to see your opinion-whether that’s a video or a dislike on the video.
Send this comment to RUclips HQ!
It doesn't protect creators feelings because they can still see the dislikes
@@Obelg ding ding ding. It only allows creators of disliked videos to “pretend” or save face somehow, even though they see how many dislikes they truly have. The notion that “all voices speak equal value of truth/helpfulness” is a very slippery slope and doesn’t hold up well when organizations try to make rules to enforce it.
Conflict-when honest and respectful-breeds growth.
Shielding shit creators doesn't shield society it just let's bad ideas and bad actors continue to propagate and be the cancer that they are. You did a spot on criticism!
Please remember to report truly harmful content.
@@qdpqbp anything you disagree with on the internet = communism
@@JaxsonGalaxy I report it to other viewers with these 👍👎
The issue I have with this take is that creators are still able to see the dislikes, so how is this helping the creator and not public perception? I dont understand.
In a way, creators would benefit in discussions about sponsorship because the sponsor can't see the dislikes so likes and views are all they got now
If it's not displayed then there is a lot less incentive to engage in targeted disliking of a video.
@@SpeculatorSeth right. But there isnt targeted disliking campaigns on small creators (not materially). So again. How is this not a change directed towards the public perception of large creators, specifically not advertisers per sey. But for corporations that use youtube to promote their products.
The argument would be that the targeted dislike campaigns will be not be encouraged by watching the large number of dislikes increase, so there will be fewer dislikes
@@Dipsy827 There are. Usually such targeted campaigns are led by bots though. RUclips has no way of knowing which users are completely legit though. So who can say how widespread it is? I only have 6k subs, and it has happened to me on occasion.
I now feel less protected from scamvidoes or blatantly incompetent/incorrect videos about topics. Before the Like/Dislike ratio gave a signal to a certain degree how worth it is to watch, how true the content is and just generally how good it is.
How often did you come across scams and incompetent videos with a high dislike ratio?
@@Fakery RUclips shorts.. every time
But you can't see the dislikes
@@Fakery almost every video on learning about how to work on engines or on which cleaning/ any useful products actually worked and making sure it wasn’t just a well formed add for an expensive but sh.t product.
I use RUclips to help me find solutions to issues and now I have to dig through garbage videos thanks to this.
Many many videos I have clicked on had awful trolling comments saying it works, yet the dislike ratio was enough for me to realize its just trash. And the comments are just trolls or more adverts.
I wish comments had a dislike ratio number for this reason as well.
Now every terrible troll-baiting video feels meaningless when you hit the dislike button. No one will see it. And my negative comments get deleted as soon as I post them.
No, it didn't. Did everyone get brainwashed by Marques Brownlee's video? Dude, all you have to do is look for videos with a lot of likes. Bad tutorials and scams don't get many likes. This isn't rocket science.
@@AchannelA I legit don't know who that is. Scam videos absolutely can get high likes if they just buy a few likes. But when you saw a high dislike ratio based on the amount of views even if it had a lot of likes you knew something was amiss.
No, its not to protect small creators. The small creators actually benefit from having the dislike visible as if they have more likes, its add more credibility to them.
I'm going to disagree with your conclusions. This decision lines up with RUclips management's goals to make money, and their perception that this would make advertising and media partners more comfortable with the platform. I don't think this is some "shadowy conspiracy", and it's kind of a weak debate tactic on your part to straw man the alternate view by framing it as conspiratorial.
It's actually the least conspiratorial thing of all to expect that Google/RUclips wants to increase profit and that the management team of RUclips is incentivized - both by their job security and their bonus structure - to make decisions in line with this goal. So why would they think removing dislikes is a good financial move, or that it makes the platform more friendly to media partners? Well, think of Will Smith. He's a hollywood celebrity who they convinced to headline RUclips Rewind, and it was massively disliked by the community. You don't think that would be a tough pill to swallow?
RUclips has been trying to "class up the joint" by partnering with celebrities, brands, big TV networks - and make them feel at home and safe on the platform, and then the pesky viewers gave them a black eye. Ghostbusters (2016) is another example of when the negative reaction overshadowed the campaign (and not to the benefit of the movie studio - ask Sony). Think of the Kendall Jenner Pepsi ad. In the first 24 hours it got 1.6 million views on RUclips, and 5x as many dislikes as likes. The public backlash killed the commercial, and had everyone apologizing. RUclips wasn't the only place where the backlash manifested, but it became the immediately reportable measure that everyone could point to in other media.
I'm sure you remember the flight of advertisers from RUclips that happened around the time of Logan Paul's suicide forest video. You can argue that advertisers don't care about bad impressions, but only up to a certain point: it's clear from the actions taken since adpocalypse that RUclips's mandate is to sanitize the platform and provide reassurance to advertisers and media partners. They're sick of RUclips dislikes becoming embarrassing headlines (immediately reportable measure) for politicians, celebrities and companies. There may be junior teams who literally proposed this policy change for the stated reasons, but make no mistake, senior management wouldn't have approved it unless they judged it a financial win. That's their job.
Not everything is motivated by money.
@@TrifectShow especially big corporations like RUclips ,🤣
This comment needs some subject and paragraph separation
@@TrifectShow it's mostly about greed
This comment is better than the video
I'm probably disconnected, but I've never heard content creators having problems with dislikes - amazingly the most toxic area is still alive - the comments! But both should not be hidden. A world built on no winners or losers and only participation ribbons isn't the real world.
comment's are censored beyond belief tho. Sometimes mild comments like "that item is really sh it you shouldn't use it" get deleted because it might hurt someone's feelings.
@@BaxInAction exactly. Comments get auto deleted all the time, sometimes for no reason.
@@schigeraXD yup, I lose 100's of comments
@@BaxInAction same, it almost makes me never want to comment anything.
@@schigeraXD I hardly do lmao thought out comments don't get posted. Just incase I spend awhile writing and it gets deleted
Awesome video! My question after hearing all this is, why doesn't RUclips revert the change at this point? Surely they weren't expecting THIS much backlash from both viewers AND creators. Their goal in this change was to help creators, so seeing that even the creators are just as upset by this change, doesn't that defeat the original purpose of the change? Can we expect them to revert it at some point or is this actually a new normal?
Maybe they did expect this much backlash. But regardless, they did not revert it because of the exact reason Devin pointed out, they really believe they are helping the small creators, and no one is making a point to counter that. What everyone is doing is pointing out other consequences of the decision, which RUclips most likely has already considered. But they believe that the good done by this change outweighs the bad that everyone is pointing out.
What we need to do is not to backlash, but to clearly show why the trade off is not worth it, and possibly show alternatives of helping smaller creators while also not making the youtube experience worse.
Which creators? The ones making the most money for You Tube?
Then popular creators like yourself, like your rl content btw, need to work together to tell youtube otherwise. If enough do so then way more likely to revert.
@@devagr here’s the thing - if u look on RUclipss comment section, there’s a little bit of backlash on that point specifically
@@devagr You really contradicted yourself there. You’re saying RUclips already considered the bad that everyone is pointing out but then suggest a solution of pretty much pointing out bad (by bringing in trade offs).
If what you say about RUclips believing they are in the right is true, then no amount of civil discussions of trade offs or other solutions will change their mind.
If this update remains in effect for the foreseeable future, I hope that RUclips provides a setting that allows creators to opt-in to displaying the public dislike counter on their videos (channel-wide or on a per-video basis). Especially since I create tutorials, I want the true reception of my content to be visible to viewers, whether good, mixed, or bad, in order to demonstrate more transparency and credibility from the get-go.
I would be surprised if they did that, because if they did, then the people who don't opt into public dislikes would be looked at negatively, the same way we all looked at people who turn off comments and who turn off ALL likes and dislikes. It looks like RUclips doesn't want us to have a metric to gauge whether or not a video is good or not, and so allowing RUclipsrs to opt into the public dislike button would potentially have the side effect of giving us a metric to gauge whether or not a video is good. They should just make everyone's dislikes public again. People will begin to get frustrated with RUclips. Especially with "How To" videos where the tutorial is trash, but you don't get to realize it until you've already wasted 10 minutes of your time.
I kind of feel like RUclips might just want to hurt their community for the thrill of it.
This is about protecting unpopular politicians. A good company would want to know when something is disliked, so they can improve. Not many people bother to hit a dislike button that doesn't work.
yet again the whole "safe space" situation is slowly destroying the world. it reminds me of the game "We Happy Few" where everyone has to be false and fake being happy all the time.
You know We Happy Few? Nice!
One could say that we can still make our opinions heard in the comment sections… but the creators can delete them…
they could also hide dislikes before this change.
I love the "I'm going to tell you the secrets of the world but first a word from out sponsers!" Your smirk while transitioning to your call to action is the best.
remove chat remove dislikes remove all human interaction! yay :) protect everyone! yay
Giving everyone a voice!
There was another change on the platform a couple of months ago, disabling videos for EU countries for "18+" content, so that you had to upload your credit card information or a photo of your ID to prove your age. Now I could not watch a ZBrush tutorial about how to sculpt the female form, that was flagged, but a giant artist with a music video that showed real women topless I could see. Now why is that? I think corporate greed, they don't care about small creators because they don't generate a lot of ad revenue for RUclips, but this big music artist does, so it's not flagged. So I don't trust that disabling the view of dislikes is to "protect" small content creators, wich is their official reason as of why they did it.
There is an Add-on "Return RUclips Dislike" for Firefox/Chrome now.
Unfortunately it will stop working sometime in December when they remove it from the API, allegedly...
@@tiagozortea I am still hoping for many creators to share their data.
But you are right.
Lets hope something like odysee gets large.
I fucking hate not being able to see the like/dislike ratio. Really hoping for a competitor to RUclips.
@Devin Nash maybe its to prepare for the yt rewind lol
Its interesting how I just Finished FFXIV Endwalker and a core concept was about how we need to have struggles/hardships to create a better tomorrow.
Shielding people from the negative leads to apathy and mediocrity
Inclusivity = bigger marketshare of creators and viewers joining RUclips without the prejudice = more watchtime = more ad revenue.
I've canceled my RUclips subscription. After seeing the censorship, demonetizing and deplatforming of many of my favorite channels, hiding the dislikes made the decision easy. I'll be moving to platforms which support freedom of speech.
I think the news networks are to blame for this. Since the start of the pandemic their like to dislike ratio was not a good thing to see. Because people caught up to their biased opinions and their hard attempts to shove their opinions down the tube. I personally think the dislike button should be disabled only to news networks who we no longer care about anyways.
I actual realised this while watching a JRE video where they were talking about flat earthers and dinosaurs never existed content creators, RUclips is basically removing the ability for the public to pier review content on RUclips which is going to allow these sort of ridiculous ideas like the earth is flat to spread to more people instead of people seeing that the video has more dislikes than like and skipping it because it's obviously wrong they are going to watch it and start to think it's true
dislikes increases the engagement on the video
if anything disliking the video would cause it to spread to more people
most people don't check the like / dislike ratio
@@gyroninjamodder that is still going to happen the difference now is people can't see the video is being down voted and are more likely to think the information in the video is correct the rate of trust me a dude on RUclips said so is going to increase because of this
Those sorts of videos and content creators were utterly destroyed in around 2014-15. It's rare that anything that out of the norm will make it here nowadays. I always wondered why people hate those vids so much? Who/what does it hurt really? If they're obviously wrong, wouldn't that be indicated in the likes/dislikes and comments? Or was it again to protect people from themselves? This situation is no different than the first large takedown of flat earth, dinosaurs/evolution, 9/11, etc. It was worse then. RUclips may be run by people but the algorithm has a 'mind of its own.' And back then I saw it all happen. Would actually make a good video documentary, but then again, that would likely get removed so why bother?
I think you are on the right track but came to the wrong conclusion. RUclips is removing the ability to pier review videos, but not so that people spend more time watching conspiracy theories. It the algorithm should follow what the demand (viewers) want to watch. The reality is people love to watch conspiracy theory videos. RUclips has many times shown (and other social media platforms) that they prioritize and culture and viewpoint that they want to foster on their platform over pure profit or watchtime. By limiting the ability of the user base to drive content on their platform, it them places more control in RUclips's hands as to what content their viewers are being recommended.
I find it mind blowing how they’re trying to protect people from feeling bad, but in your creator dashboard you can see the amount of dislikes per video, it’s such a silly “update”
They want ppl to feel bad less and thats by essentially removing 99% of the dislikes ppl would give lol
It’s by design
There is a mental trap of not feeling bad because it is no longer pubically visible. Some people will mentally hand-wave it off and keep on going
You ‘landed the plan’ much differently than I was expecting. Very well said. There has to be a way to protect the people being attacked with the dislike button while also leaving the dislike button up to serve as a warning when need be.
As I understand it, it doesn't remove the counter on the creator side.
So this is about manipulating audiences, not about protecting creators. At least not the crestors that don't matter (which is everyone that isn't MSM, an "authoritative source" or and approved and white-listed propaganda repeater for the cathedral.)
You can't be attacked by a button.
Also they removed being able to search from oldest to newest. I can't stand unnecessary changes.
CABBAGE BRAIN TAKE:
My whole view of the situation is that I think it should stay optional for creators but seems like a weird thing to impose on all of the site's users. Point is made, though, that most video sites don't even use dislikes, but I think any negative predictions, such as Asmon's, are a bit premature. It probably won't even effect much.
Or even video by video like comments enabled/disabled.
This is a very interesting take. It's not about supporting corporations, or advertisers, it's about supporting HR culture.
10:31 Real reason After shoutouts
As someone who has been an account holder since RUclips’s inception, this new direction disappoints me. I’ve come to utilize the platform for its search function and removing the dislike feature now defeats that purpose. Going into 2022, I will cancel my paid subscription and delete my channel to show my displeasure and exercise my power. RUclips is in for a rude awakening. If they continue to go against their users, this platform will be of NO TRUE VALUE and eventually collapse. I will bring more attention to this topic over on TikTok. Until then, I’ll support my favs through monthly donations. I suggest others do the same.
Companies may not care about dislikes, but you know who does? Government, political parties, and their advocates in the corporate press.
It's been a few days only, and i already experienced all the downsides that i was expecting from this change. It's seriously annoying when looking to informational content, tutorials or things like that, cause you can't get a feeling if the video is worth your time or not. Or if its just one more bullshit video, cause it happens a lot. I already wished to see dislike on probably 10 videos i watched this last days. So yeah...
I also am a small french youtuber, and seriously if i have dislikes it usualy represents well the opinion of people and helps to get better. So i dont mind seeing them, btw protecting from attacks when the youtuber still can see his own dislikes is pretty dumb, cause it's still possible to hurt someones feeling.
Friend get an extension like '' return youtube dislikes''
You can view dislikes of your own content in RUclips studio. It's just not public.
@@freebachelor5060 that's my point. They are saying that its removed cause it will affect creators cause of targeted dislikes attack.. but if the creator can still look at his dislike, how is he "protected" from it.
So 1) its dumb to "protect" people from dislikes..
2) its not even working if creator can still see that lots of people dont like the video
So basicly the only good thing possible here, is that people wont leave the video before seeing it, even if their is a lot of dislikes. But its also a bad thing.. probably way worst thing in fact.
@@Telekdays Sorry, I actually missed the part at the end where you noted that you can still see the dislikes. Nevermind! Honestly, I never bother w/the like/dislike ratio so it doesn't bother me much.
@@freebachelor5060 np ! And yeah i dont really bother usualy either. But for tuto.. shit x)
"call me crazy" i think this was for the political stage... an iron curtain, we will be pushed and used to feed agendas that would naturally be concerning or disagreed or "disliked" with because the "idea" portrayed seems to be a good one, when in reality it is not a shared or liked view. without dislikes i cant tell what's manufactured or authentic..
true
My concern with the dislikes gone is that was the last reliable way to determine public opinion. A channel could hold all comments for review and filter everything. I wasn’t aware until recently that you cannot tell if your comment is public or not without going into incognito or logging out. RUclips even automatically holds some comments for review. Very strange system if you ask me.
Disliking ThatVeganTeacher videos was my favorite internet pastime
The thing you haven't really mentioned here Devin is the fact that they won't revert the change unless views on RUclips start going down and I don't think views are gonna drop any time soon.
They forgot to consider viewers in their decision. RUclips suddenly has begun to think they are a social network but it has channels, not profile pages. People are here for the viewing experience, to have fun, to learn and experience things, similar to reading a book but with video, like a tv show, that's why pages are called channels, the icon is a TV, and the name includes Tube - a nickname for TV. Likes only makes sense for profiles and social media posts, but it doesn't make sense for channels and videos. RUclips wants to be Facebook so bad they are going to become Myspace.
My thoughts on this..... everything is about control and that people aren't aware about how much control has been taken from people already and when they do find out well it's way too late.
Devin, it's EXACTLY the feeling I had about this change! It's not some shadow corporate conspiracy, it's more political correctness and avoiding being offended! Thanks for the video, I wish more ppl would hear and understand this.
What I also find incredibly ironic is that they mention not wanting to silence voices in the community... while doing exactly that with this change on even a larger scale?!
here's my thing with this, as a millennial who works with people ranging from high school to retirement i notice how the internet has affected a lot of us who grew up with it. we are much more open to discourse and conversations that counter our belief system. not saying we are more accepting but having that same conversation with someone who is say a little older tends to either simply fall on deaf ears or it turns into a toddler temper tantrum. and i think its not about creating "safe spaces" i think its about creating subcategories where people can just find people of their own temperament and mindset just like every generation before us. its about finding a place you fit in. but overall i do agree that removing the dislike button is bad. even a "targeted" attack on someones dislike button is still a uptick in the analytics. its like paying me a dollar everytime you talk to me to tell me i suck. "i said you suck 50 times!" great. cool. you put dinner on the table tonight ive done worse work at a 9-5.
I've seen people commenting "dislike" since they can't hit a button. If a video is really bad it will get lots of "dislikes"
YT's algorithm will see this as engagement & will end up recommending the video MORE. -Cecil Trachenburg
@GoodBadFlicks
Did @RUclips play 4D chess on us
There's an extension that brings the dislikes back. The API will get revoked, but estimated dislikes will then be shown.
Link???
@@andrewhernandez2987 Return RUclips Dislike on your extension store
Great video! I didn't know that total exposure outweighs public opinion
Wow, i didn't expect a bloons youtuber to be here
@@dzaky74 why not? Devin makes the best videos
I wish they’d bring the dislike button back so that we would know what sucks.😡
It's like when friends say they watched my videos. Most say "it's good" but when I ask for any criticism they have few. Either they didn't really watch it or they don't want to hurt my feeling. So I'm stuck with nothing specific to correct, wondering well if it's good then why is retention low? Obviously it ain't all constructive, but I'd rather work harder with a chip on my shoulder and not just spin my happy feel good wheels and go nowhere.
Pre suission by Robert Cialdini had a good point about asking for advice instead of feedback. When you ask for advice people are less likely to try and just make you feel good.
@@MorganMindfulness I'll give that a try, thanks! Definitely not something I would have thought of. But that's a good example of how a little change in wording changes how the message hits.
If anything, it's gonna hurt this platform. Tons of people are already moving over to Odysee. RUclips has gotten weird.
Just realized the irony of the title of the unironic marketing statement by the company. 😅
As soon as dislikes are disabled
Devin: we should trust corporations word and believe what they say
I can't see this sticking. The tutorial genre is destroyed with it and that's too important of a genre. With this alternative tech has a chance to completely destroy RUclips. Thus I think this will be like the Google+ situation a few years back (they will walk it back and never mention it again). Then again there's a less than intelligent woman in charge...
How does your theory at 13:10 make any sense when content creators can still see their own dislike count? Therefore they'll still feel bad if they receive dislikes, seems like you didn't think this one through..
- Statista - Largest Social Media Platforms. RUclips is an outlier with a Dislike button in this era of social media having all heart buttons. Facebook has an Angry button, but at least buttons representing emotional responses still maintain the distinction between objective and subjective and showcase someone's negative opinion as an opinion.
- Only the public dislike count was removed, not the button itself. This is because RUclips uses Dislike as an algorithm button and encourages people to Dislike things to tune their algorithm recommendations. You can search for the tweets if you know what to type. RUclips's support reps have actually been doing this with RUclips Music, where a Dislike is similar to a dislike on a service like Pandora in terms of "don't show me this."
- Spam, Scams, and Deceptive Content is a huge way people lose channels when creating deceptive videos. You can find the angry tweets very easily on Twitter too.
- RUclips needs its creators more and more these days in an era where the biggest of rightsholders are getting out of the RUclips ecosystem and launching their own CDNs like Pluto, Peacock, and all the numerous "Plus" streaming services these days. Even if big brands were a factor, RUclips couldn't count on them outside of advertising.
- A small creator who can't take criticism was already going to go nowhere - with or without a dislike button. RUclips could pull a Dailymotion and remove comments too if they really wanted to, but no system RUclips can roll out is going to change the need to view civil feedback as a gift. This applies in the offline world too when you have those stuck-up small business owners who don't keep it professional, tank their business, but play the blame game anyway and never take responsibility for anything.
- You should be more than familiar with the A.S.S. (Angry Small Streamer) scene on Twitch in terms of small content creators who barely get Twitch Affiliate and barely get anywhere after that because of something wrong with them, and that's in an environment with no likes or dislikes. 😏
There is far more to the story than what you're talking about here. If you went on vacation from your Novo bubble for a bit you'd know more about the other stuff. 🙂
I'm incredibly petty, so I refuse to purchase anything from brands that have irritating advertisements. When I was a teenager I heard a guy talk about how companies will deliberately advertise in irritating ways to create a longer lasting impressions. Ever since then I deliberately work at remembering the negative impressions I've had so as not to support that company in the future. One example is Twix, I so utterly hated the whole left side vs right side Twix advertisements that I will not buy the candy bars. I even went so far a few times to email companies to let them know that I saw their dumb commercial and I would not be purchasing their products ever. I think it was after the first RUclips adpocalypse that every other commercial was for Axe body spray so I emailed Axe corporate and told them I was boycotting their products because their ads were so atrocious. I got a semi-apologetic response from them, but I also realize as I'm typing this out this pretty much makes me a weird internet person ^ ^;
As for the main point of the video, I appreciate Devin's perspective. Creating safe spaces free from criticism and being able to express dislikes is like trying to "help" a butterfly by breaking open it's chrysalis when you see it struggling to get out. The struggle is what gives it the strength to survive. RUclips's concept of safety is ultimately handicapping and weakening new content creators.
I loved the left vs right Twix ads, seeing people unironically saying one side tasted better was hilarious.
Man I hate to be the one to tell you, but your petty frustration and choice to never buy those companies products has led you to inadvertently give those products free exposure to the thousands of people reading this comments sections. I might have to go buy a Twix just for you 😂
I remember when people got instructed to put their phone in the microwave to dry it out after dropping it in water.
I wonder if stuff like that will happen again.
Wait a minute, I can now see the dislikes count on any RUclips video. Is it just me?
Much respect Devin.
I think you did make an excellent point. But undercut it by focusing too much on your pro corpo bias.
Corporations are run by humans, with emotions and feeling. And I've learned many execs take things personally too often. I have no doubt the dislike bombings of corporate content are a factor in this. Not the entire reason, but definitely a factor.
The Anti Corpo bias isn't any better to be fair. Shitty on corporations as a Contrarian Reflex is not an improvement over a Pro Corpo bias.
I find it interesting that you deny it's a factor at all.
Yeah, no, I still don't think youtube is being honest, don't think they actually believe they are helping creators. Cause here's the most important thing: the dislikes aren't available TO THE PUBLIC. They are still available to the creator in RUclips Studio. And creators, especially the small ones who supposedly need the most protective, are normally the ones obsessing over their analytics. How does hiding public dislikes help if they can still see them?
If a group of people is organizing a dislike raid, they can still open the video, click on the dislike button, and know they did the thing. Even if they can't see it, a group committed to dislike bombing isn't going to let that stop them. And besides, there's always the comments section: yet another way of dislike bombing, only a lot more hurtful and personal.
There is definitely some hidden reason for this, because the stated reason makes NO sense
I will not use RUclips premium until they bring back the dislikes
He is of the ilk that 'all publicity is good', when actually negative reports will cause most to not support the brand, again, ever...
Devin I wish you didnt wait so long to reveal youtube's real motive and why that's a problem because I fear most of the people who needed to hear it will have left before getting that far.
I’m sure that the vast majority of left/woke youtubers were very happy this happened. Including all news channels minus fox
Do you think RUclips had anybody in mind when they talked about creators getting targeted? The two big creators I think about when it comes to this targeted dislike bombing is Leafy and commentary community vs Pokimane. But is there anybody else they could be talking about?
PS: Nice taste in music Devin
Double PS: I don't think the Kingdom of Heaven quote applies well here, but then again I think the moral dilemma of the good man and the evil king is a false one. Anyway, it's not evil to have dislike buttons or to dislike a video if you didn't like it. The tradeoffs between having a dislike button and not a dislike button can be seen from observing Twitter.
Conner McClure
Conner McClure
0 seconds ago
Did the comment I posted literally 10 minutes ago seriously already get removed because I spoke the actual truth about why the dislike button was taken down??? That absolutely earns the apparent "first" dislike for this video from me... The second it gets brought back is the second I will turn my dislike back into a like. (BTW I had originally liked this video). Oh and just because they make 7 Billion annually DOES NOT mean they aren't always hungry to make 8, 9 or hell even 20 Billion annually. CORPS NEVER STOP. THEY ALWAYS WANT MORE duhhh.... and it's BECAUSE THESE HUGE CORPSORATIONS ARE MANY PEOIPLE CONTROLLING IT therefore If this gets removed a 2nd time (this post is 10x more polite BTW than my 1st still-truthful post stating how RUclips blocking dislikes is absolutely to protect the 73%-80% disliked Joe Biden (Actual accurate "monthly" stats gradually growing from 40% from 7ish months ago FYI), And how I mentioned that our government is censoring the entire internet starting just a few months ago actually!! Including Wiki they tried to slam into a docile position just last week (literally look into it before hating people!), But I also said the the CCP (China regime) Does/Did the SAME THING when they first started off yrs back slowly conditioning the general populous into accepting there thumbs on the scale per-say)------- If this guy truleyt means what he says about being an "honest youtuber/content maker" he will not remove this post again....
Oh and Devin just a fair warning to you brother I design and sell macros that play videogames for people on a very high intelectuasl level.... i literally have over 4,000 "ghosts" as i call them basically robo-youtubers that will post this exact post 4k times per 10mins if this gets removed a 2nd time. Just keep this post up dude till get pushed down from comments anyways. Just allow the truth/my truth as you get to post/speak your truth. Much love all, and keep your heads up high my fellow us citizens! =)
RUclips rewind has lots of likes; you cannot see many more dislikes. So videos look better. Is that not simple as that? You can still attack the highly disliked videos, as creator will see
Devin, your idea behind the dislike button is one of the few things that has made 100% sense since this came out. RUclips is absolutely making a safe space, similar to how certain subreddits that simply opposed the beliefs of the Mods, so they banned them. Major websites and social platforms have started to silence the voice of contradictions, and that is terrifying. Even if it’s something I disagree with, if you aren’t hurting anyone, you have a right to think however you want.
No, you had the answer with your 10 minute explanation but came to the wrong conclusion. As you said, the most important thing to a Brands is, Engagement. The reason youtube removed the dislike count is to essentially force people to watch a video they wouldn't have otherwise watched; which in turn exposes them to more advertisements. RUclips understood it's consumers were using the dislike count to decide whether or not to watch a video (a video that isn't watched doesn't generate any revenue) - by removing the dislike count people are forced to engage with a video, which increases the chance they're exposed to a Brands advertisement...the point being to generate more revenue for youtube. Corporate greed at it's finest.
I heard there's a Chrome extension that allows you to see Dislikes again
Love your videos, I like popping them on in the background and work.
I agree with what you said that removing the Dislike Visibility does reduce conflict and confrontation. However, one thing I see that can be good from this change is that it encourages the viewers to express their thoughts through the Comment Section and start a conversation. This could greatly impact smaller channels where the viewers refuse to even leave a Comment and just be contented by leaving a Dislike.
Do you really want creators reading the comment sections? Most don’t already because of how toxic it is.
10:51 where he finally starts getting to the point
This was a very good take Devin. Thank you for taking the time to bring this point of view to the table when no one else had considered it.
The worst thing about this change is that because it's not easy to differentiate between good and bad content is that I'll accumulate watch time on bad videos on accident and wind up with lower quality content in my feed with no way to break the cycle.
At this point if I don't find it in search or it isn't in my subscription feed, I simply don't watch it and this is difficult because youtube's primary goal is to push recommendations. They defy their own objectives with this on top of making the user experience considerably worse as I have to use the features of the site youtube doesn't prioritize.
How often would you run from videos with a high dislike ratio?
There's a link on the left bar on youtube that show every video you watched.
the name is "History"
Remove the video from there.
Coulda stopped the sentence at "they typically aren't people"
100% agree. Part of me must Wonder why people are going into something like RUclips that is very public-facing if they don't have thick enough skins to handle it. It also speaks to the week nature of our culture. Does nobody have strength and fortitude anymore? Is no one able to face adversity and overcome it? I think the answer is yes. However these changes cater to the minority of people. And it doesn't do them any favors. They need to learn to deal with these sorts of things in their lives. Dislikes and negative comments. Give me a break. That's nothing. What are they going to do if there ever any actual physical situation in real life if they can't handle things like this online? People don't need protection. They need to be exposed to these things more and learn to overcome them and deal with them.
Great video! Great thesis!!! RUclips has been nearly unusable as a consumer since this change. It takes 10x longer to find helpful content. It took me watching 5 videos before yours to find anything usable and thought provoking. Hopefully RUclips and the community recognizes this when the metrics plays out and takes action. I too do not like the muddling of confrontation and conflict. The two that constantly spur exponential growth. Nothing great happens without them.
At the end of a day it’s a tool. You can major damage to someone with a hammer…but you also can make something beautiful with it. We don’t discontinue knives…or spoons bc you can smoke crack on it. Limitation to access of tools is NEVER the answer.
The worst is when you look for tennis highlights and it turns out to be highlights of a tennis video game. The dislike used to tell me this before I watched their shitty ad in the beginning.
Hey now! Don't blame the Lizard people!
We're innocent on this one, this is ALL RUclips!
When the change was rolled out sitewide there was a bug you could exploit to still view dislikes. One creator I follow used to get 300-500 dislikes a video in the first 24 hours, including stream reservations and premieres that hadn't aired yet. When you used the bug to view the dislikes on new videos, the number was 0-10. So the change had the exact effect RUclips wanted, for better or for worse.
This is the worst explanation anyone has offered so far and falls apart on so many little details that I don't even know where to begin. Guess 99.999% of the people disagreeing with this decision and coming to the same conclusion on why they did it and who it benefits are all wrong, but you my man know the ultimate truth. Sure chief.
It’s really sad seeing that people are starting to forget about this change and are starting to accept it. We need to fight back.
Great video and discussion, this makes a lot of sense. And is, as you mentioned, a more disturbing prospect over all.
I imagine this also increases watch time, as users have to watch a video to form an opinion instead of making judgement prior to viewing. This may be the true reason for the change.
I am not convinced that the negative outcomes talked about here and elsewhere are that prevalent. Like when people say they use it to decide if a video is worth watching (especially for tutorials), that just seems so minor when over 90% of videos are viewed through recommended. Try thinking about the last video that you clicked on in your recommended feed that you stopped watching because of a dislike ratio. I literally can't think of one time, personally.
It makes sense that you'd be a little confused if looking at dislikes if the first thing you do, but I'd imagine that will quickly go away over time as we become more accustom to looking at just likes, views/likes, views/likes per vid on that specific channel, etc. To me this just sounds change averse and doesn't necessarily mean it won't be better in the long run. One question to ask yourself: are you having these same problems finding out whether something is bad or good on other websites that don't have dislike features? If there are other reasons that you aren't confused, nothing is stopping youtube from adding those other reasons.
People not feeling bad doesn't seem as big of a deal as you make it out to be. RUclips is a big enough platform that one creator can have audience A and another can have audience B without them needing to compromise to an AB audience. It kind of seems already in line with what people do with psychographics right? I would think that phasing out the dislike button would actually help those edgy comedians not be afraid to "find their voice" as youtube phrases it. And it's not like the feedback isn't still all there for the content creator, it's just repackaged.
Makes it easier for spam bots to actually get crap in.
I’ve been super surprised with how much backlash there is, because as both a viewer and creator I don’t often even look at the likes/dislikes on a video. I guess if a video I was about to watch had an overwhelming amount of dislikes then I would use that, but I feel like most videos just float around the 95-100% like ratio.
You can anable the dislike counter. But having a Google extension called remove RUclips dislikes.
This was SO INTERESTING!!!!!!! I never knew that RUclips really cared about their creators! I always thought that they wanted to do bad for, well, the bad reasons. But to know that they are just trying to make things better for everyone changes my perspective of RUclips (a little bit). You see RUclips still has problems when it comes to regulations and rules that are weighing creators down. They also let advertisers get away with sexual and graphic content! But it still makes me think if RUclips is trying to help their creators or if they are being abusive towards their creators for no reason. It’s strange…….
To be honest, this whole idea of minimizing confrontation is so American. I feel like they fear confrontation more than anyone else. Why else would be have the “everyone is offended by everything” meme?
US is soft af.If i have to chose betwen grey and white color id chose grey color.But in US that would mean that i hate white color,so ppl in us need to say''but i dont hate white color''.That would not happend in let say east EU
@@ddannyable yes that’s exactly what I mean
The removal of the dislike button will likely transform youtube into something else entirely.
They've taken a step. I don't like where it's going but everyone seems to want a TikTok level of success.
Just post the word dislike in the comrnents to protest
When I tried making a RUclips channel the first issue I ran into was non-existent companies copy right striking my videos, wonder if they'll do something to fix that. Dislikes don't get a channel shut down
I think removing the dislike button is most anti-viewer move they have made, totally removing people's ability to have a voice on the content they watch...its nuts to me.
A solution could be if we all came together and agreed to pin a comment on our videos saying "DISLIKES" and the likes on that would be the dislikes lol
That's what I've already done on a few videos. No one liked my comment though and I haven't seen anyone else try that despite others also suggesting it, so it leads me to believe RUclips is censoring those comments.
Cringe, RUclips needs to do something not it's users
@@geoffreychuck791 We are the RUclips Platform, So we have the Power:)
no one who actually needs to be properly evaluated via dislike ratio would do that, though.
The reason why RUclips removed the dislike button was because they couldn't stand having the most disliked video on youtube
Finally!
I waited on this video for weeks!
Thank you
youtube's video about the dislike currently have 442k dislikes
I'm surprised by your take Devin but completely agree with it. At the cost of creating a positive echo-chamber, RUclips has lost transparency and the credibility of its content. It seems to be an issue across the tech industry at the moment. Battlefield 2042's scoreboard is also a good example of this. It's not so much that the scoreboard is gone, but if you're savvy, you could use it to tell who was doing nefarious things with the game like Hacking. That transparency is also now gone. Rather than this RUclips change being a gain for advertisers, it's a loss for legitimate content creators and users.
Such a load of shit. If I’m pissed off enough to hit the dislike button, believe me, I will never fucking use that company ever again.
RUclips: You're not allowed to dislike our content.
Facebook: Hah, slowpoke.
Dislikes have already been removed from the comment section for a while now and no one complained about that
I think this issue is overblown and doesn’t affect the RUclips experience