I always knew TTYD Remake wasn’t going to outsell Origami King but it would sell well and i don’t think we need to worry about the future of Paper Mario anymore since Nintendo said themselves that they are very pleased with the sells of TTYD Remake
Ah, great to hear! The fact that Nintendo has been releasing classic rpgs at all (this, Mario RPG remake, the brand new Mario & Luigi: Brothership) should be a very good sign for fans. Unless this is just a short phase, it seems Nintendo realizes we want classic rpgs again.
@@zeroknight2718 7:46 SMT said that the sales for TTYD Remake were solid and stable. And he said that Nintendo themselves seem relatively pleased with the how TTYD remake sells
I think a lot of people tend to forget the SMRPG Remake came out around the holiday season a lot of parents managed to buy it for their kids TTYD came out around half of the fiscal year so a lot of kids and adults just can't get it at the moment. We'll just have to wait for the holiday season to see TTYD sells boost around that time Also great video BTW P.S still waiting for that juicy hour TTYD review video
Others will say that it came too late in the Switch’s life, some will say that it’s too slow with the 30fps issue. I’m just glad a new generation got to experience this game and it being easily accessible.
@@Goomba456 Well, the reason why 30 fps was controversial was because the original ran at 60 (50 for PAL). Not the biggest deal but people tend to use 30 fps as more of a dealbreaker than it actually is. Sure its worse than 60, but at the end of the day its a singleplayer game that is more aimed at a casual audience who probably knows nothing or doesn't care about the fps debate.
@@nyvve1fair, though ultimately I don't think most consumers can even tell the difference without looking for it... it would be nice to see if the next console has some kind of spec upgrade for older games, not sure if that's possible though
@@nyvve1the first one looked and felt amazing to play, all they had to do was put it on the switch in HD for like 30$ and it woulda been perfect. No need to invest money revamping the game so they can try to justify a 60$ price tag on a game that most die hard fans have already played
@@SugeryGoldAs someone who grew up with TTYD as their favorite game, calling this full remake a fucking 'revamp' is abspultely insulting. This game plays just as well if not better than the original, which is something I do not say lightly.
Idk seems like TTYD timing is what killed it. Super paper mario being released early in the wii cycle. Origami king released during the shutdown and super mario rpg released during the holiday. Could it simply just be timing?
Timing and i beleive a bit of oversaturaion of mario games. Im less than a year we have had about 10 mario products. The movie, wonder, mario rpg, paper mario, princess peach, luigis mansion, mario and dk
@@marioandultrachap Usually we only see those once a generation, the only exception so far being Super Mario Galaxy 2 and maybe the existence of 3D Land. N64, Gamecube, and Wii U only had one 3D mario game, and even further back the SNES only had Super Mario World.
@@marioandultrachap They only do those once per console. The only reason the Wii got Galaxy 2 was because they had more ideas they wanted to do and not enough space - especially since the Wii didn't have DLC back then. Its literally the Tears of the Kingdom to Super Mario Galaxy's Breath of the Wild.
I believe you tweeted something along the lines of "it had legs", or rather, it has lasting appeal so it'll likely have good lifetime sales once the Switch is finally over and done with, on top of these solid initial sales. Either way, it's nice to see a video game company not pulling their hair out and going on about how disappointing is that their game "only" sold 3 million copies (because game development has gotten so bloated that they need massive returns to justify it).
The numbers aren't comparing with the juggernauts but it still managed to nearly outsell the original's lifetime sales in its first month on the market. I'd consider that a hit by most standards.
One thing about Nintendo is that they really care about reviews. While not an astronomical difference, Thousand Year Door has reviewed better than Origami King. If TTYD is able to get any nominations for year end award shows or if it’s able to win anything, that would be very promising.
@@TinyGuy97Mario RPG Remake? A new Mario & Luigi After the colossal failure of Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr's Journey? A new tradicional Mario Party? A dark mainline Zelda game (Twilight Princess) After the ""childish"" (at least called like that at the time) Windwaker? Skyward Sword with no obligatory motion controls (Skyward Sword HD Switch)? A new main Xenoblade Chronicles (2 & 3) and a remake of the original Xenoblade with better graphics than what the original Wii could handle? It looked outdated even for the standards for the time. EVERY SINGLE SMASH CHARACTER IN WII U AND ULTIMATE? Yeeeah, they never listen, whathever you say pal.
@@lucko95 Mario RPG remake happening could be due to Nintendo and Square Enix peaceful partnership right now. Obviously, the first game on snes was already a success so making a sequel to that was inevitable. However, due to their partnership being controversial at the time, it never happened. After the Wii U, Nintendo relationship with Square had evolved so of course remaking Super Mario RPG, an already successful game in the past was inevideble. Zelda Twilight Princess going back to the dark art style was also inevitable since Nintendo look at the disappointing sales of wind waker and thought it didn't sold enough because of its art style. You and I both know that if Wind Waker sold well despite the fans criticism of that game's art style still being present, Nintendo would've released a sequel anyway because of the sales numbers. Let's not pretend here. Come on, Skyward Sword switch having no obligatory motion controls is indicative of listening to the fans? I know you don't actually believe that. It's find to disagree with me but don't go and be disingenuous on purpose. Not even gonna respond here. Xenoblade Chronicles was always a success in japan. Don't forget Xenoblade Chronicles X on Wii U. Nintendo is obviously passion about that series regardless of fans input. Of course it's going to get a sequel. And Xenoblade Chronicles 1 remake having better graphics is indicative of listening to the fans? ..What?? If the smash devs were about listening to the fans then Nintendo would've made smash more like melee after brawl and brought back subspace. Why didn't they do that? Because it's about sales. Fans can speculate or wish for something all they want but if it doesn't translate to sales then it's meaningless.
I don’t think we have to worry that much with the money problem because clearly Nintendo is trying to bring back Mario RPG’s to the way they were. I mean they slept three of the main ones on us in a year that’s something. Not only that they’re been very well reviewed and they’re making the numbers they usually make, remember Nintendo is not the same company we knew them as they seem they are listening more to fans. They are doing all kinds of stuff that somewhat. I feel like they’re going back to their old merits, but I hope you all have an Amazing Year and God Bless You All.
Let’s not forget that Nintendo is having another sales meeting on November 6th so hopefully the TTYD remake has sold more by then but by no means is it a flop like Color Splash cause it came out on the Wii U
Yeah but if it fails to outsell Origami King, Nintendo might see that as people wanting Paper Mario to go back to its current "Action Adventure" structure despite 99% of fans saying otherwise.
Note that this is literally just 4-6 weeks still. It’s been 3 months since June still. Let’s wait until another sales progress for the remake is made until making a final decision. Also, can we talk about Switch 2? Rumors are hype as hell rn
another reason why I'm not worried about the sales of TTYD or most Nintendo games nowadays is that unlike companies like Sony, they don't put as much of a bigger budget. If Paper Mario, Xenoblade, FE and Metroid were owned by Sony, they would see the recent game sales as failures and most likely never do another entry again, because they spend so much money and have extremely high expectations on their games. I would love to see you discuss about the current budget problem in the video game industry, it would be nice.
I mean, given how Nintendo still have a lot of dead franchises and some who got revived in the Switch era (like the Baten Kaitos 1 2 + and Advance Wars remasters) flopped so hard they don't seem interested in them anymore, I don't think they are the best example of a company who don't care about their niche titles don't selling as much as their juggernauts and just selling one million is considered a success to them.
The important thing to remember is that sales numbers by themselves don't really mean that much about the overall success of a game, as there are a lot of factors that can significantly influence sales expectations. Numbers that would be seen as abysmal for some games could be seen as great for others. Considering all the factors going against the TTYD remake, such as releasing at the end of the Switch's life, releasing near the beginning of the summer when games sales as a whole tend to be lower, and being a remake rather than a brand-new game, I'd say 1.76 million in only a little over a month is actually pretty good. I highly doubt Nintendo was expecting it to match Origami King's numbers or even come that close to them for that matter. We obviously don't know how much it will continue to sell, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's passed 2 million already.
The game is not a flop by any means but people being gloomy that SMRPG outsold it need to realize that SMRPG is an older game and had a much more enhance experience with actual 3D models instead of 3D sprites and 2.5D engine. SMRPG was a complete remake, while TTYD felt like a Remastered port with tons of QoL added.
Thank you, I am happy smrpg got its due. And I am happy tyd is getting love too. I am just happy games like these are being rediscovered or shared. Thats all I wanted was to share these gems with my kiddos and I am not a big jrpg guy to begin with ,but these games helped open that genre for me.
@@ChillstoneBlakeBlast oh yeah right, but then how can they make ttyd feel like a remake like isnt it already a remake? like what do you want them to do to make it feel like its not a remaster?
Super Mario RPG also sold a little better despite not being released in Europe originally, had 2 virtual console re releases, was on the SNES Mini and it has been an easy game to emulate since the late 90's, so it obviously had more gamers being excited about it being remade than TTYD.
Genuinely surprised to hear you haven’t beaten TTYDR yet, bro. I took my sweet time with it myself and I still ended up beating it eventually. No rush, of course, I’m just surprised to hear that from one of the resident TTYD bros. : P
@@SuperMarioT i totally get this. even things like video editing takes forever, scheduling, making sure youre in a good head space, OBS being a pain sometimes, etc. GL with it!
@@GalekC I'm at boggly Woods and yea it's amazing. Probably the most underrated Mario game I've ever played! Punies and jabbies scenes were horrifying lmaoo
I'd hardly call 1.76 million physical copies within 39 days a flop. It's a remake of a gamecube classic and not some AAA or even a AA title by today's standards. Even one million is quite solid. We will probably see an update as of September 30 when November hits. Also, this is something I need to remind people all the time; the list only includes physical copies that go to shelves. It does not include digital copies and it does not include copies bundled with Nintendo Switch units.
@@user-1mc0n4us.ed-_- A little confused; 3rd party stores that sell games? IIRC, those companies still bought the games from Nintendo shipments before selling them to others. Or do you mean Nintendo doesn't report sales for 3rd party titles? Well, it's not really Nintendo's job to keep track of those and the jobs of other companies; though it's still Nintendo's cartridge technology being sold. But obviously, if you look at Wikipedia's list of best selling Switch games, there are definitely a lot more games that sold in the millions; but most of those are either digital only or 3rd party ports. Minecraft reportedly only sold 5 million on that list, when it clearly sold a lot more than that. Microsoft reported Minecraft sales were better than they ever been with the Switch release alone. Games like Witcher 3 and Skyrim also sold more on Switch than they consistently have for any other platform with PC being the only real competition.
@@TheMaestroMizerousto be fair engage had bad word of mouth. It’s a fun game but it came after the heavily praise 3houses. Engage was also very divisive
I did what I could as a fan of the old style Paper Mario games, I bought my physical copy and told people who play Nintendo Switch, that the game was good and they should buy it too. Even if it wasn't as big as we thought it would be, I'm happy that it happened at all, and I'll cherish my copy as long as I live.
It’s important to realize the circumstances of Origami King and Super Paper Mario, one released during the Pandemic as one of only two major titles from Nintendo in 2020, and the other released right as the Wii was taking off, as the first Mario game for the system. TTYD selling 1.3 million in less than 4 months , during an extremely slow sales period for Nintendo with their successor system rumored to be unveiled any day now, its extremely impressive! TTYD will likely match or outsell Origami King long term, and since it released so late on the original Switch, it will likely get enhancements on the Switch’s Successor, like 60FPS or higher resolution! In any instance, this game has proved its worth in a year where Nintendo has sort been middling in performance
Is ttyd a flop? No. Is it scary for people who want paper mario to go back to the rpg formula and that the sales so far arent close or the same as origami king? Yes. You covered this topic and discussion very well. Good video.
The remake was selling faster than the original's 1.91 million lifetime sales and it was only out for a month. I'll admit wanting the game to outsell Origami King was a little extreme considering we're at the end of the Switche's life, so I'm guessing it'll do maybe 2 and a half million or 3 million, just enough for Nintendo to go "Alright... we'll try this for a new game".
NES sold 60+ million units. SNES worse. N64 worse. GC even worse. GC sold 20+ million units. Look at the penetration for Paper Mario 1000 on GC vs Switch (140 million consoles = 7X GC). The Switch version is selling okay, but not good. Some factors that makes it sell bad: 1 - it's a 60 dollar game? Not 40... 2 - released close to summer! 3 - after some bad years with high inflation and high rates to beat inflation which hurts peoples' wallets 4 - Nintendo is releasing "one Mario game every 2 months". 5 - end of Switch's lifespan 6 - this is the ~20th Mario game on Switch Just based on these factors, this remake/remaster is selling pretty good. I wish it will sell even better. I bought it on the release weekend! I hope they can rerelease the Wii game also! That game is more like Super Mario Bros 1 & 3 but with a twist :)
I’ve been playing Origami King recently, and aside from the odd frustrating difficulty spike, I’ve enjoyed it. The battle system is more unique and refreshing that people made it out to be. And I love how they fully leaned into the paper aesthetic.
A part of me was hopeful the TTYD remake would outsell Origami King, but in hindsight, that most likely never would've happened due to, as you have stated in the video, the game releasing near the end of the Switch's life and Origami King releasing during [what I believe to be] the peak of the Switch's popularity, during a time where not many games were being released and the collapse of civilization....uh, I mean the pandemic. Despite this, however, I also never really worried all that much about the future of Paper Mario or Mario RPGs. Part of that can chalked up to me being too busy with my personal life to really think about it, but I also feel like whatever Nintendo wanted to do with Mario RPGs.. they set out to do it and succeeded in some way. I have no idea what's on the table going forward, but I'm not really worried. I believe we don't have anything to worry about, but only time can tell
Timing is key. I remember when Arlo was surprised TTYD didn’t sell at least as well as RPG, one thread of the comment section was making fun of him being the TTYD guy. I mean, I don’t care which one’s your favorite, but I would still find the gap surprising if they came out at the same time
@@IamCanadian3333 Its still not a flop. It sold 1.7m. Thats how much Paper Mario sells. Its only a flop when it sells below the franchise sales record. If it sold 200k lifetime sales then its a flop.
Food for thought this remake has almost outsold TTYDs original life sales, its original sales total was 1.91 million copies Also this sales data is from June 30th, which means it’s already 3 months old, and Holiday season is coming up where most companies get a lot more sales. Its most likely surpassed 2 million by now at least Also more to add on your point about Mario kart, Party, 2D and 3D games outselling, yeah of course RPGs are a more niche audience, with only a couple really hitting somewhere close to those numbers being something like Final Fantasy or Pokemon.
Also as someone who’s sees quite a few about these, trust me ive heard worse, currently from Fire emblem fanbase. Almost every FE RUclipsr has at this point cried the series is dying despite Engage selling more than Awakening and under fates so far, but just not close to 3H… maybe it’s just an trend to call IS games flops
@@rontheauraknight9606I don’t think that’s accurate. Engage sales dropped heavily . It sold well however it didn’t beat fates or awakening. When it comes to 3Ds-switch era it only beat echoes. Engage had mix word of mouth it sold well but lasting impressions didn’t last and it shows since many fire emblem RUclipsrs don’t even want to do another play through of engage
@@Yoshixandir when I wrote that an month ago the latest results were 1.9 copies of Awakening sold and 1.61 of Engage sold, but to note Engage still hasn’t had an update to its actual sales numbers since March of last year. It might be closer to 2 million Also yes I know of its mixed word of mouth, it’s just annoys me every single Fire emblem RUclipsr literally pulled an “IS FIRE EMBLEM DYING” when one game doesn’t increase sales numbers like every game (barring Echoes) had at that point. I think Engage gets too much flak cause it’s still an pretty fun game
I had my first nightmare in probably years I was in a FNAF game getting chased by the gang ya know going through different scenes one was Bonnie in a house bathroom I tried to use the mirror to distract him. It changed to me being in a storage mill/facility with saw blades and creepy underground passages I had a shotgun but it was not useful at all. I had to run from Bonnie and foxy as I tryed to open a door. With nothing but sound and the gun to protect me having to leave the room to escape. The last part was the most fun? I had to run over storage containers trying to escape chica and balloon boy (it looked similar to the Halloween moon) I had to jump form Moving train of crates to another. I reached the over the track had to knock chica out of my way and the vase behind her. I ran forward into a dead end. I had to use a switch next to a soda machine to crush multiple chicas between two walls. There was a slow normal size ones and a faster huge one coming twords me. I falled the challenge after I think I needed to press the buttons on the soda machine to distract the huge chica but I don't know because that scared me awake
Sales shouldn’t be a concern for the TTYD remake… But I think the biggest reason it didn’t sell as much as people would’ve expected… Long story short… Dialogue changes…. Footage got leaked online and some people were not too pleased with the dialogue changes… And not just any script rewrite either… But the kind that sparked controversy… The kind that’s killing gaming as we speak…
As much as I cringed at the Vivian localization changes, I think performance and lack of 60fps was far more damaging than some stupid text. Also the remake barely added anything new to the table, meaning that those that already played it before had very little reason to revisit it unless if they like the game that much.
I will say i believe one of the contributing factors as to why sales are not nearly as high is due to pirating nowadays its quite easy to get your hands on a modded switch and that has possibly offset the total potential sales of these games by at least 500k to 2 mil
It's between that & online emulators, but I really doubt it consists of that many people either. It didn't deter Tears of the Kingdom by any notable stretch given it's 20+ million selling record still makes it the 2nd best sold Zelda by a hefty amount. With how much smaller Paper Mario is compared to both the last 2 Zeldas & most Mario series, I'm pretty sure the pool of piraters is a fuck ton less.
As someone who experiences both camps (I like to get an early preview of the game if possible), piracy does not affect sales much. If anything, Piracy sometimes boost sales because it encourages people to support the official releases if they like the game that much. That's how I got hooked to buying my games.
Good video. I think you have a lot of valid points. I grew up loving Mario RPG games, so I've thought a lot about this topic. I bought both SMRPG and TTYD on launch day. Beat both. Loved both. I also played the originals back when they originally released. That never deterred me from buying them again, but I do know it did for some people. The way I looked at it, I never thought Origami King was a good comparison for TTYD for a lot of the reasons you said. But I do think SMRPG is a good comparison as both are older games that are being remade after a long time. I think in both cases, some people just don't want to re-buy a game as mentioned above. Maybe timing has a little bit to do with it, but I do think Wonder took priority in a lot of households. So yes, the holiday window may have helped, but TTYD didn't have to compete with a brand new 2D Mario game. So there are a lot of variables for both of them. I think pre-release, a lot of people expected TTYD to out sell SMRPG, which it didn't. Does it make it a flop? No. But I do think it's telling that there was quite a difference in the first six weeks. I do agree it's too early to tell. But if TTYD is under 2.5M, I think it's a let down, and I don't think that's the same as a flop. I don't think either game was ever going to get in the 5M+ range. But I won't lie, I thought it would be closer to SMRPG.
So, a number of factors have to be considered when trying to compare Origami King to the TTYD remake as of right now. First, Origami King came out when lockdowns were being lifted in most places, and thanks to government money, people had extra to spend. Plus, many became gamers, even if just casually. Compare that to now when people are struggling to survive, and it's understandable why TTYD, from a first quarter standpoint, might seem like a flop by comparison. But we'll have to wait for lifetime sales to know for certain. All in all, it's not bad for a 20 year old game to have sold almost close to its previous lifetime sales in its few weeks is nothing to sneeze at.
@xionvixon3387 True. As I said at the end of my comment that it came close to lifetime sales of the original in just a few weeks. However, one thing we should also consider that I just thought about is that these numbers only count for physical sales of the game and not all sales. Digital game sales are not revealed by Nintendo, so it's possible that TTYD in both physical and digital have already surpassed the original lifetime sales and are at least close to Origami King in terms of first quarter sales. We don't actually know and probably never will.
i think mario rpg "saturation" is actually a pretty big concern. im a fan of all the series and even i found myself deciding that ill have to pick one or the other. not everyone has time to play games never mind two games that are so similar back to back
I was hoping they keep the battle formula from now on in the next Paper Mario, since Thousand Year Door got remaster a few months ago. All Nintendo can do is promise us to keep the old battle turn mechanic comes back.
I have a weird curse where when I buy a game from the previous generations, it'll get a remake on the modern console a few days later. Skyward Sword, Kirby's Return To Dreamland, The 3D Mario games, Metroid Prime Trilogy, and the Thousand-Year Door. I would've gotten it, but I already spent 80 bucks.
Well obviously the people who want TTYD are becoming smaller and smaller, so they’re a much more niche group of people to sell too, so odds are Nintendo won’t go this route for paper Mario.
I think my main feeling is timing. It releases not just when switch 2 is all people are wondering of but also after another Mario RPGs. General consumers might not want another one so close. Even Pokemon games don’t come out this close to each other. So that could be a reason as sad as it is. Then again which order the 3 rpgs should go is a sad question since all three fandoms deserve to release first for numerous reasons. Still with the backwards compatibility I have faith this game will have legs. Even if not for a bit by the end who knows.
I'll go out on a limb and say sales don't (entirely) matter. Sure, sales matter, that's what every company wants. But I'd argue that this game was made for two possible main reasons: 1. Mario & Luigi Brothership wasn't a factor at the time this game was finalized for production. Considering Paper Mario's devs had gone on record to admit that they weren't doing Paper Mario games traditionally as they said that Mario & Luigi was the main RPG series, it's likely that Intelligent Systems took note that Alphadream was dead and decided to step up to create a Mario RPG, only for Brothership to be announced not long after. 2. The game was a guinea pig for future Paper Mario game development. Pokemon aside because that's a whole different rabbit hole, most remakes that come from Nintendo's banner come from a certain reason. Most of them are system tech demos: Mario 64 DS, Ocarina of Time 3D and Star Fox 64 3D. Wind Waker HD was stated in an Iwata Ask to be research into a new lighting engine which would be later used for the then "Zelda Wii U", and the Fast Sail was to show off the Wii U's better loading VS the GameCube, which ultimately had a hand in Breath of the Wild's loading of the open world. While Twilight Princess HD was done entirely for research into giving Link a wolf companion in Breath of the Wild, ultimately as the programming for both the wolf-style enemies and Wolf Link amiibo functionality... It's also why we've not seen Switch ports of these two Zelda games. So it's not that hard to argue that TTYD's remake was a deliberate decision to be used as a base for a future Paper Mario game, taking what had worked for that game and expanding it (that and Paper Mario 64 was going to be on N64 NSO, remaking that one wouldn't have worked logistically, since Gamecube games will never be emulated, Super Mario Sunshine on SM3DAS excluded) However, now that Brothership has been announced and soon to be released, is Intelligent Systems going to continue Paper Mario in this manner? Or was TTYD just a one/done experiment?
I feel like the reception to it & especially RPG might signal to Nintendo it shouldn't be a one & done. Like you said, sales won't entirely matter but whether or not we factor Mario RPG sold better than TTYD & Origami King, RPG was basically universally praised for it's combat, charm, mechanics & everything the original game had, just updated to fit modern gaming standards. Even w/ the small controversies the remake for TTYD has across the 30fps, Vivian being trans & whatnot, they're so minor & make up so little people who played the game or cared to begin with that it's still being met with practically universal praise still, similar to the original. Mario & Luigi Brothership will likely also be met with better sales & definitely strong reception. TTYD very well could be a one and done type of experiment after seeing Mario & Luigi and Mario RPG make comebacks too. But it's easy to argue they might not abandon either the remake's resources or TTYD's resources, in what its structure, mechanics & ideas offer. If they did plan to make TTYD a basis for future Paper Mario titles, it'd be a huge waste if they left anyways. As stubborn as they were about the whole matter, I'm sure Intelligent Systems is aware they'll face considerable pushback again if they up & leave the formula as they likely know why that formula's received much better than the recent formulas of the newer Paper Mario titles, and the backlash may have considerable size, if not at least a stronger basis, if they use RPG & Brothership as their basis to not bother again because while RPG is a lot closer to Paper Mario to compare, them & Mario & Luigi still offer different experiences & strengths all the same, these same people clamoring about them just want these series as Mario RPGs & to not affect one another as they never did the first decade they existed.
@@SuperMarioT The only issue I have in the long run is they've been met with pushback in interviews for years following Sticker Star with fans and critics outright getting more vocal since Color Splash that they wanted a Paper Mario game that was like TTYD, and yet since Color Splash they've reacted with: "Mario & Luigi is the RPG series, so Paper Mario doesn't need to be like that" And "Paper Mario is an action/adventure series" I can understand in that regard that they decided to do TTYD as a remake because Mario & Luigi was no longer around - they no longer had the excuse, and TTYD's was a return to form in order to gauge the idea that returning to the original turn-based battle would not only be lucrative as far as profits but also they could use it as a basis for a future game. But this is also the greater Nintendo umbrella we're talking about where they would definitely do things the fans would hate because they think it works better, and refuse to change from that stance. Hence, the whole not bringing WWHD & TPHD to Switch or not going back to the original formula even after backlash. It's why, while I enjoyed Brothership's announcement, I fear that Paper Mario would go back after TTYD's remake because the Paper Mario team could just go back to the excuse of Mario & Luigi being the RPG series to not work on another Paper Mario RPG game.
I think a big problem with this discourse is that people treat sales numbers like a zero-sum game with a “winner” and “losers”. A game can sell well for a lot of reasons but pure quality is almost never the only reason.
If you're comparing the sales of TTYD to Origami King, compare it to the other, higher-selling Mario RPGS. Super Paper Mario sold almost 4 and a half million while Bowser's Inside Story sold a little bit more than that. Comparatively, I think for releasing around the end of the Switch's life on top of releasing between two already highly regarded/anticipated Mario RPGs, WITHOUT immediately considering the sales it will make later this year, I think it sold amazingly so far! With some time, I'm sure we'll see some real good numbers. It also helps to point out that TOK sold during the pandemic (look at Animal Crossing) as well as there were a big catalog of games for the Switch near the end of 2023 and all the way to now. Stay hopeful gamers!
Mario, but I have a K. Rool, a Min Min & a Palu. Also yes, I try to go locals whenever I have the spare time & cash, otherwise I try to make time to grind Matchbox/Smashpros or Smash Ult grinding discords.
I'm incredibly happy with the remake and it's sales, honestly I have nothing to complain about it, TTYD is my favorite game of all time and I highly prefer the remake! The 30 FPS is hardly noticeable to me, and I don't mind if I can't skip past the text since I never do that myself (you can still skip past repeated text and repeated cutscenes), it had my favorite graphics in the franchise, and I love all the new OST and remixes. The QoL stuff and new additions are awesome too. I can't go back to the original now and I will always enjoy TTYD Remake as my favorite game of all time!! :)
Well, it's...obviously kinda not? People often reference Origami King and that the original TTYD had a much less successful console, but RPGs don't really scale like that(If they did, TTYD Switch would have had to outsell all games under the Persona 5 branding combined to keep up with GC TTYD's ratios because "the Switch has such a magnitude of more potential customers"), not even for Mario. If anything, these two releases only make TTYD Switch's first month sales look smaller because they were disgustingly overperforming by genre standards if we take the ratios literally. Super Paper Mario also sold incredibly well for RPG standards, but that was an action RPG and jumping is what Mario is known for, so it argubly does not really qualify for the metric. As a sidenote: Nevermind that the Switch is literally on its way out btw, that is an important factor for games that people often forget. People also claim that Fire Emblem Echoes did poorly because it only managed one milion and those people are legitimately out of their mind. That game sold 80% of its initial japan shipment and actually went on to *sell more 3DS units*, when they just released it as a filler game, expecting it to just soak up residual sales from existing system owners. Context matters a lot.
SMRPG really warranted a remake, TTYD was already a "modern" game, even with all the extra fluff even someone like me who loved the GC version didn't buy the Remake.
I am almost positive this game was supposed to be on the Switch 2. The colored buttons completely give it away for me. (Something that late stage Switch games all seem to have despite that not being part of the design language for years.) Hopefully when the next console is revealed/released, Nintendo will use it as one of the games to show off the graphics of the new system. (4k + 60FPS) Maybe if they do, the game will gain a second wind.
A lot of games this year feel like Switch 2 games that they pushed forward- Mario Party especially. So, in context of these games being meant to just tide Nintendo over till they get to the next big thing, I think that their sales expectations will be adjusted to fit that.
If it makes anyone feel better, think of it this way: if you combine the amount of sales with TTYD from between the OG and the Remake, it ends up outsaling SS AND TOK! Woo! We did it! ✊️
@@TheDynomiteGuy If one person buys a game and another person also buys that game, that equals two sales. It's not manipulation, it's simple math . Didn't think that need to be explained.
Remakes that come out near the end of a console generation historically sell less. Using Fire Emblem as an example: Fire Emblem Gaiden, Thracia 776, Path of Radiance, Shadows of Valentia, Engage all released near the end of console generations and did worse than their previous console itterations whenever applicable. The remake all sold even worse than their console brethrens comparatively. For Path of Radiance, Shadows of Valentia and Thracia 776, they sold especially poorly. For all three, the successor was either announced or released, making this even worse. End of console lifespan plus remake plus successor expected is the worst combination for sales. TTYD did pretty good considering.
I get that OK had a lot more going in its favor but I would like to meet someone who bought that and skipper TYD and ask them why Also I know you referenced it and I have seen it too but people who say Arms flopped, what are they talking about? It did well for a new IP. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw Arms 2. Wonder if they think Astral Chain flopped too? (it didn’t). People see 20+ mil sellers and think a game needs to hit 10+ mil to be a success but that’s not the case, very few games hit that mark
24:06 My dude, I think you meant “Brothership”, not “Paper Jam”, since you refer to the one releasing October 2024. Also…Paper Jam was awesome (probably riding on my love of both Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario)!
No, I refer to how Mario & Luigi's always been good, Paper Jam's also good but it is significantly more uninspired & often marked the only uninspired one because of the bland story, safe character roster using nothing but pre-established Mario enemies & lack os unique locations.
I wouldn’t call it a flop it’s more that it was still released on the switches 7 year span which people were getting dried on. Now did it sold well even though it didn’t passed origami king sale? I believe it did
personally, im not really that concerned about sales and stuff. I just wanted it to outsell origami king bc i care about the direction of the series and that would help. Honestly though, i think the good press they got for this remaster was really a stark contrast to the awful press they got for the modern paper mario games, so call me naive, but i think the next paper mario will be a functional RPG lol…maybe theyll indulge. In some paper gimmicks tho
As someone who's been a Mario RPG Warrior since the OG Paper Mario on N64 (back in 2001, when I was finishing Kindergarten and starting 1st grade), I'm not that disappointed with the TTYD remake is flop (assuming it is as of the making of this comment).
I'd have bought the remake of tii werent for 2 reasons; 1. I already have the original and still enjoy it to this day as is. 2. It has almost no new content from the original, the only diffrence is a couple post game bosses. So not really worth the 60$ price tag for my situation
I would say further reasons to why TTYD remake didn't sell that great are: 1. It's not a new game so some people might feel like they don't need to buy it. 2. It's not the first Paper Mario game on Switch and casual gamers are less inclined to buy another game in the same series on the same console. 3. Due to controvertial changes like the 30 fps and the "censorship" some people might've been convinced to boycott the game. A new Paper Mario game on the next console would not be affected by these 3 points and hopefully Nintendo was convinced to make more games like TTYD so they can see how popular this formula truly is.
i beat it like a week ago lol that shadow queen fight was a pain. killed me twice until i got smarter with my strategy and switched out my partners to optimize attacks. in the end it was Goombella's rally wink that enabled me to get the extra hit i needed
People who work at Walmart target Best Buy and GameStop should turn away customers looking for the next Nintendo console saying “sorry we don’t have any in stock”. If Nintendo releases another paper Mario that doesnt return to its original form.
I think the TTYD remake is sort of fun, other than the changed art style from SS/CS/OK, and the strict timing on Superguards. I ended up giving up on it a month ago due to Boggly Woods, though. That doesn't mean that I was in favor of a remake. I made a Gamefaqs post about it, and constantly defended SS/CS fans from the harassment they received from TTYD fans. I do think that the original N64 game should have gotten a remake first, but I understand why TTYD got one beforehand. Part of me is very happy the game sold poorly due to how annoying TTYD fans are. Same for Pokemon BDSP. "Genfourers/Genfivers" are very annoying. Harassing fans of the 3DS games and claiming that the DS games are the best, though we all know it is due to nostalgia. That's what they all get for harassing the minority fans and begging so much.
bruh the game havnt even been out for a year the final sale number comes about 2 years after the release because everyone who want it wouldve gotten it by then
It basically existing is an automatic W! Ever since TTYD was remade every semblance of a progressive adventure was erased. There will be no "Next Paper Mario" this is it, you're done. Live with it. Get good!
What i think happened was that the people who never played the original TTYD and bought the Origami were probably actually burned by Origami King and thought that it was going to be the same as that and they never got the remake. Remember that some kids don't even know it's a remake. It didn't even say that in the title.
Considering the game was released near the end of the system's life, reused a ton of assets and was finished ahead of schedule. I think Nintendo still saw it as a success with those sales.
The art style of the original game is so good it did not need a remake like this. They should have revamped it in HD and slapped a 20-30$ price tag on it
I wouldn't worry about it a bit as well, I'm sure the lousy complainers that called us Nintendo Fanboys and tried their absolute hardest to prove us wrong are already Screaming Bloody murder by now. 😆
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hii
I always knew TTYD Remake wasn’t going to outsell Origami King but it would sell well and i don’t think we need to worry about the future of Paper Mario anymore since Nintendo said themselves that they are very pleased with the sells of TTYD Remake
Ah, great to hear! The fact that Nintendo has been releasing classic rpgs at all (this, Mario RPG remake, the brand new Mario & Luigi: Brothership) should be a very good sign for fans. Unless this is just a short phase, it seems Nintendo realizes we want classic rpgs again.
I know I'm pleased with it!
Really? Where and when did Nintendo said that they are pleased with TTYD Remake sales?
@@zeroknight2718 7:46 SMT said that the sales for TTYD Remake were solid and stable. And he said that Nintendo themselves seem relatively pleased with the how TTYD remake sells
How did orgami king sell that well? I didn't dee the numbers.but like, wasnt it totally awful? People hated it right? How is this possible
I think a lot of people tend to forget the SMRPG Remake came out around the holiday season a lot of parents managed to buy it for their kids TTYD came out around half of the fiscal year so a lot of kids and adults just can't get it at the moment.
We'll just have to wait for the holiday season to see TTYD sells boost around that time
Also great video BTW
P.S still waiting for that juicy hour TTYD review video
True however there’s more competition with Zelda Mario party and Mario and luigi
SMRPG Remake was also a far bigger upgrade than TTYD Remake was, and it's not even close.
TTYD Remake took much less effort.
@@IamCanadian3333 and who told you?
@@السراقالمجهولmy eyes
Others will say that it came too late in the Switch’s life, some will say that it’s too slow with the 30fps issue. I’m just glad a new generation got to experience this game and it being easily accessible.
I don't see how it could be it being 30fps tbh, origami king and color splash were 30fps and nobody even noticed
@@Goomba456 Well, the reason why 30 fps was controversial was because the original ran at 60 (50 for PAL). Not the biggest deal but people tend to use 30 fps as more of a dealbreaker than it actually is. Sure its worse than 60, but at the end of the day its a singleplayer game that is more aimed at a casual audience who probably knows nothing or doesn't care about the fps debate.
@@nyvve1fair, though ultimately I don't think most consumers can even tell the difference without looking for it... it would be nice to see if the next console has some kind of spec upgrade for older games, not sure if that's possible though
@@nyvve1the first one looked and felt amazing to play, all they had to do was put it on the switch in HD for like 30$ and it woulda been perfect. No need to invest money revamping the game so they can try to justify a 60$ price tag on a game that most die hard fans have already played
@@SugeryGoldAs someone who grew up with TTYD as their favorite game, calling this full remake a fucking 'revamp' is abspultely insulting. This game plays just as well if not better than the original, which is something I do not say lightly.
Idk seems like TTYD timing is what killed it. Super paper mario being released early in the wii cycle. Origami king released during the shutdown and super mario rpg released during the holiday. Could it simply just be timing?
Timing for sure
Timing and i beleive a bit of oversaturaion of mario games.
Im less than a year we have had about 10 mario products.
The movie, wonder, mario rpg, paper mario, princess peach, luigis mansion, mario and dk
@@israelruiz8706 yet 3D Mario games are like nonexistent lol
@@marioandultrachap
Usually we only see those once a generation, the only exception so far being Super Mario Galaxy 2 and maybe the existence of 3D Land. N64, Gamecube, and Wii U only had one 3D mario game, and even further back the SNES only had Super Mario World.
@@marioandultrachap They only do those once per console.
The only reason the Wii got Galaxy 2 was because they had more ideas they wanted to do and not enough space - especially since the Wii didn't have DLC back then.
Its literally the Tears of the Kingdom to Super Mario Galaxy's Breath of the Wild.
I believe you tweeted something along the lines of "it had legs", or rather, it has lasting appeal so it'll likely have good lifetime sales once the Switch is finally over and done with, on top of these solid initial sales. Either way, it's nice to see a video game company not pulling their hair out and going on about how disappointing is that their game "only" sold 3 million copies (because game development has gotten so bloated that they need massive returns to justify it).
The numbers aren't comparing with the juggernauts but it still managed to nearly outsell the original's lifetime sales in its first month on the market. I'd consider that a hit by most standards.
Well, a Switch game selling more than a GameCube game isn't that impressive considering the GameCube sold much much less
Wait for November/December sales. When the fans actually have time to play games.
One thing about Nintendo is that they really care about reviews. While not an astronomical difference, Thousand Year Door has reviewed better than Origami King. If TTYD is able to get any nominations for year end award shows or if it’s able to win anything, that would be very promising.
Nah, Nintendo doesn't care about reviews or fans... "criticism". Seems like sales are their bigger priority. Maybe reviews second.
@@TinyGuy97Mario RPG Remake? A new Mario & Luigi After the colossal failure of Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story + Bowser Jr's Journey? A new tradicional Mario Party? A dark mainline Zelda game (Twilight Princess) After the ""childish"" (at least called like that at the time) Windwaker? Skyward Sword with no obligatory motion controls (Skyward Sword HD Switch)? A new main Xenoblade Chronicles (2 & 3) and a remake of the original Xenoblade with better graphics than what the original Wii could handle? It looked outdated even for the standards for the time. EVERY SINGLE SMASH CHARACTER IN WII U AND ULTIMATE? Yeeeah, they never listen, whathever you say pal.
@@lucko95 Mario RPG remake happening could be due to Nintendo and Square Enix peaceful partnership right now. Obviously, the first game on snes was already a success so making a sequel to that was inevitable. However, due to their partnership being controversial at the time, it never happened.
After the Wii U, Nintendo relationship with Square had evolved so of course remaking Super Mario RPG, an already successful game in the past was inevideble.
Zelda Twilight Princess going back to the dark art style was also inevitable since Nintendo look at the disappointing sales of wind waker and thought it didn't sold enough because of its art style. You and I both know that if Wind Waker sold well despite the fans criticism of that game's art style still being present, Nintendo would've released a sequel anyway because of the sales numbers. Let's not pretend here.
Come on, Skyward Sword switch having no obligatory motion controls is indicative of listening to the fans? I know you don't actually believe that. It's find to disagree with me but don't go and be disingenuous on purpose. Not even gonna respond here.
Xenoblade Chronicles was always a success in japan. Don't forget Xenoblade Chronicles X on Wii U. Nintendo is obviously passion about that series regardless of fans input. Of course it's going to get a sequel. And Xenoblade Chronicles 1 remake having better graphics is indicative of listening to the fans? ..What??
If the smash devs were about listening to the fans then Nintendo would've made smash more like melee after brawl and brought back subspace. Why didn't they do that? Because it's about sales. Fans can speculate or wish for something all they want but if it doesn't translate to sales then it's meaningless.
I don’t think we have to worry that much with the money problem because clearly Nintendo is trying to bring back Mario RPG’s to the way they were. I mean they slept three of the main ones on us in a year that’s something. Not only that they’re been very well reviewed and they’re making the numbers they usually make, remember Nintendo is not the same company we knew them as they seem they are listening more to fans. They are doing all kinds of stuff that somewhat. I feel like they’re going back to their old merits, but I hope you all have an Amazing Year and God Bless You All.
Let’s not forget that Nintendo is having another sales meeting on November 6th so hopefully the TTYD remake has sold more by then but by no means is it a flop like Color Splash cause it came out on the Wii U
Yeah but if it fails to outsell Origami King, Nintendo might see that as people wanting Paper Mario to go back to its current "Action Adventure" structure despite 99% of fans saying otherwise.
@@supermariof0521 let’s not forget that TOK came out during Covid which is why it sold insane numbers
@@chrisgranger5477 True
Note that this is literally just 4-6 weeks still. It’s been 3 months since June still. Let’s wait until another sales progress for the remake is made until making a final decision.
Also, can we talk about Switch 2? Rumors are hype as hell rn
Another thing to point out is that I’m pretty sure this is only the physical sales data, Nintendo never really shows/tells the digital copies sold
another reason why I'm not worried about the sales of TTYD or most Nintendo games nowadays is that unlike companies like Sony, they don't put as much of a bigger budget.
If Paper Mario, Xenoblade, FE and Metroid were owned by Sony, they would see the recent game sales as failures and most likely never do another entry again, because they spend so much money and have extremely high expectations on their games.
I would love to see you discuss about the current budget problem in the video game industry, it would be nice.
I mean, given how Nintendo still have a lot of dead franchises and some who got revived in the Switch era (like the Baten Kaitos 1 2 + and Advance Wars remasters) flopped so hard they don't seem interested in them anymore, I don't think they are the best example of a company who don't care about their niche titles don't selling as much as their juggernauts and just selling one million is considered a success to them.
I really hope Nintendo makes paper Mario games like ttyd. I loved the game and 100% it twice
The important thing to remember is that sales numbers by themselves don't really mean that much about the overall success of a game, as there are a lot of factors that can significantly influence sales expectations. Numbers that would be seen as abysmal for some games could be seen as great for others.
Considering all the factors going against the TTYD remake, such as releasing at the end of the Switch's life, releasing near the beginning of the summer when games sales as a whole tend to be lower, and being a remake rather than a brand-new game, I'd say 1.76 million in only a little over a month is actually pretty good. I highly doubt Nintendo was expecting it to match Origami King's numbers or even come that close to them for that matter.
We obviously don't know how much it will continue to sell, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it's passed 2 million already.
The game is not a flop by any means but people being gloomy that SMRPG outsold it need to realize that SMRPG is an older game and had a much more enhance experience with actual 3D models instead of 3D sprites and 2.5D engine. SMRPG was a complete remake, while TTYD felt like a Remastered port with tons of QoL added.
Thank you, I am happy smrpg got its due. And I am happy tyd is getting love too. I am just happy games like these are being rediscovered or shared. Thats all I wanted was to share these gems with my kiddos and I am not a big jrpg guy to begin with ,but these games helped open that genre for me.
define a 2.5d engine
youre just talking out of your ass, paper mario games are 3d, while the sprites are 2d
@@السراقالمجهول I'm talking about Super Mario RPG.
@@ChillstoneBlakeBlast oh yeah right, but then how can they make ttyd feel like a remake like isnt it already a remake? like what do you want them to do to make it feel like its not a remaster?
Super Mario RPG also sold a little better despite not being released in Europe originally, had 2 virtual console re releases, was on the SNES Mini and it has been an easy game to emulate since the late 90's, so it obviously had more gamers being excited about it being remade than TTYD.
I honestly don't care how well it has sold, we got Chapter 6 Battle Theme in this timeline.
Genuinely surprised to hear you haven’t beaten TTYDR yet, bro. I took my sweet time with it myself and I still ended up beating it eventually. No rush, of course, I’m just surprised to hear that from one of the resident TTYD bros. : P
Lotta stuff to deal w/ + fear for stream crashes because last time for Chapter 5, it crashed 5 times
@@SuperMarioT Dang, man. Really hope you have better luck with it soon!
@@SuperMarioT i totally get this. even things like video editing takes forever, scheduling, making sure youre in a good head space, OBS being a pain sometimes, etc. GL with it!
i still only beat chapter five but i'll get to the end, soon. & i love this game to death & back twice over - going on two decades
@@GalekC I'm at boggly Woods and yea it's amazing. Probably the most underrated Mario game I've ever played! Punies and jabbies scenes were horrifying lmaoo
I'd hardly call 1.76 million physical copies within 39 days a flop. It's a remake of a gamecube classic and not some AAA or even a AA title by today's standards. Even one million is quite solid. We will probably see an update as of September 30 when November hits. Also, this is something I need to remind people all the time; the list only includes physical copies that go to shelves. It does not include digital copies and it does not include copies bundled with Nintendo Switch units.
Nor does it count the third party sellers, I would assume…
@@user-1mc0n4us.ed-_- A little confused; 3rd party stores that sell games? IIRC, those companies still bought the games from Nintendo shipments before selling them to others.
Or do you mean Nintendo doesn't report sales for 3rd party titles? Well, it's not really Nintendo's job to keep track of those and the jobs of other companies; though it's still Nintendo's cartridge technology being sold. But obviously, if you look at Wikipedia's list of best selling Switch games, there are definitely a lot more games that sold in the millions; but most of those are either digital only or 3rd party ports. Minecraft reportedly only sold 5 million on that list, when it clearly sold a lot more than that. Microsoft reported Minecraft sales were better than they ever been with the Switch release alone. Games like Witcher 3 and Skyrim also sold more on Switch than they consistently have for any other platform with PC being the only real competition.
It also outsold Engage, which also suffered from weak legs.
@@TheMaestroMizerousto be fair engage had bad word of mouth. It’s a fun game but it came after the heavily praise 3houses. Engage was also very divisive
I did what I could as a fan of the old style Paper Mario games, I bought my physical copy and told people who play Nintendo Switch, that the game was good and they should buy it too.
Even if it wasn't as big as we thought it would be, I'm happy that it happened at all, and I'll cherish my copy as long as I live.
It’s important to realize the circumstances of Origami King and Super Paper Mario, one released during the Pandemic as one of only two major titles from Nintendo in 2020, and the other released right as the Wii was taking off, as the first Mario game for the system.
TTYD selling 1.3 million in less than 4 months , during an extremely slow sales period for Nintendo with their successor system rumored to be unveiled any day now, its extremely impressive!
TTYD will likely match or outsell Origami King long term, and since it released so late on the original Switch, it will likely get enhancements on the Switch’s Successor, like 60FPS or higher resolution!
In any instance, this game has proved its worth in a year where Nintendo has sort been middling in performance
Man, Paper Mario has always been a series where the timing of each entry drastically affects how well each game sells as far back as the first game.
Is ttyd a flop? No. Is it scary for people who want paper mario to go back to the rpg formula and that the sales so far arent close or the same as origami king? Yes. You covered this topic and discussion very well. Good video.
The remake was selling faster than the original's 1.91 million lifetime sales and it was only out for a month.
I'll admit wanting the game to outsell Origami King was a little extreme considering we're at the end of the Switche's life, so I'm guessing it'll do maybe 2 and a half million or 3 million, just enough for Nintendo to go "Alright... we'll try this for a new game".
If the lifetime sells do surpass the origami king somehow then it's an even bigger statement in favor of the old style of games.
NES sold 60+ million units. SNES worse. N64 worse. GC even worse.
GC sold 20+ million units. Look at the penetration for Paper Mario 1000 on GC vs Switch (140 million consoles = 7X GC).
The Switch version is selling okay, but not good. Some factors that makes it sell bad:
1 - it's a 60 dollar game? Not 40...
2 - released close to summer!
3 - after some bad years with high inflation and high rates to beat inflation which hurts peoples' wallets
4 - Nintendo is releasing "one Mario game every 2 months".
5 - end of Switch's lifespan
6 - this is the ~20th Mario game on Switch
Just based on these factors, this remake/remaster is selling pretty good. I wish it will sell even better.
I bought it on the release weekend! I hope they can rerelease the Wii game also! That game is more like Super Mario Bros 1 & 3 but with a twist :)
How has it already been *a year* since the remake was announced?!
I got Ttyd the day it was available! I had more fun with it than I did with Origami King
I’ve been playing Origami King recently, and aside from the odd frustrating difficulty spike, I’ve enjoyed it. The battle system is more unique and refreshing that people made it out to be. And I love how they fully leaned into the paper aesthetic.
@@joshslater2426Origami King is awesome. Doesn't deserve the hate it gets.
A part of me was hopeful the TTYD remake would outsell Origami King, but in hindsight, that most likely never would've happened due to, as you have stated in the video, the game releasing near the end of the Switch's life and Origami King releasing during [what I believe to be] the peak of the Switch's popularity, during a time where not many games were being released and the collapse of civilization....uh, I mean the pandemic.
Despite this, however, I also never really worried all that much about the future of Paper Mario or Mario RPGs. Part of that can chalked up to me being too busy with my personal life to really think about it, but I also feel like whatever Nintendo wanted to do with Mario RPGs.. they set out to do it and succeeded in some way. I have no idea what's on the table going forward, but I'm not really worried.
I believe we don't have anything to worry about, but only time can tell
I wonder how Brothership doing better will affect Nintendo's perceptions
4:33 Basically Wario Master of Disguise but it’s peach.
Timing is key. I remember when Arlo was surprised TTYD didn’t sell at least as well as RPG, one thread of the comment section was making fun of him being the TTYD guy. I mean, I don’t care which one’s your favorite, but I would still find the gap surprising if they came out at the same time
Interesting he still gets those type of people but also I'd imagine that's any creator above 100K on every video.
@@SuperMarioT Paper mario games sell 1-4m. It selling 1.7m is a success.
@@emersonssbb Especially considering it's a remaster at the end of the day. It has only a fraction of the effort to make than a brand-new game.
@@IamCanadian3333 Its still not a flop. It sold 1.7m. Thats how much Paper Mario sells. Its only a flop when it sells below the franchise sales record. If it sold 200k lifetime sales then its a flop.
@@emersonssbb Oh I agree, it definitely is not a flop by any stretch.
People also have to remember that the origami king came out during COVID, a time where people were looking for something to take up their time
That's actually sad then, because Origami King sold less than Super Paper Mario.
Food for thought this remake has almost outsold TTYDs original life sales, its original sales total was 1.91 million copies
Also this sales data is from June 30th, which means it’s already 3 months old, and Holiday season is coming up where most companies get a lot more sales. Its most likely surpassed 2 million by now at least
Also more to add on your point about Mario kart, Party, 2D and 3D games outselling, yeah of course RPGs are a more niche audience, with only a couple really hitting somewhere close to those numbers being something like Final Fantasy or Pokemon.
Also as someone who’s sees quite a few about these, trust me ive heard worse, currently from Fire emblem fanbase. Almost every FE RUclipsr has at this point cried the series is dying despite Engage selling more than Awakening and under fates so far, but just not close to 3H… maybe it’s just an trend to call IS games flops
@@rontheauraknight9606I don’t think that’s accurate. Engage sales dropped heavily . It sold well however it didn’t beat fates or awakening. When it comes to 3Ds-switch era it only beat echoes. Engage had mix word of mouth it sold well but lasting impressions didn’t last and it shows since many fire emblem RUclipsrs don’t even want to do another play through of engage
@@Yoshixandir when I wrote that an month ago the latest results were 1.9 copies of Awakening sold and 1.61 of Engage sold, but to note Engage still hasn’t had an update to its actual sales numbers since March of last year. It might be closer to 2 million
Also yes I know of its mixed word of mouth, it’s just annoys me every single Fire emblem RUclipsr literally pulled an “IS FIRE EMBLEM DYING” when one game doesn’t increase sales numbers like every game (barring Echoes) had at that point.
I think Engage gets too much flak cause it’s still an pretty fun game
Love your nuance, so tired of the the toxicity within gaming. Thanks for being realistic and honest. I subbed
Appreciate it immensely 🙏🏽
In 6 weeks, that’s pretty good for an RPG, and it’s been 4 months since the game’s release, so it likely sold even more since then.
I had my first nightmare in probably years I was in a FNAF game getting chased by the gang ya know going through different scenes one was Bonnie in a house bathroom I tried to use the mirror to distract him.
It changed to me being in a storage mill/facility with saw blades and creepy underground passages I had a shotgun but it was not useful at all. I had to run from Bonnie and foxy as I tryed to open a door. With nothing but sound and the gun to protect me having to leave the room to escape.
The last part was the most fun? I had to run over storage containers trying to escape chica and balloon boy (it looked similar to the Halloween moon) I had to jump form Moving train of crates to another.
I reached the over the track had to knock chica out of my way and the vase behind her. I ran forward into a dead end. I had to use a switch next to a soda machine to crush multiple chicas between two walls. There was a slow normal size ones and a faster huge one coming twords me. I falled the challenge after I think I needed to press the buttons on the soda machine to distract the huge chica but I don't know because that scared me awake
You should go back to sleep now with the knowledge of their tactics and kick some dreamscape animatronic ass.
@@Canadian_Bags_of_Milk I would have but I had to go to work
Sales shouldn’t be a concern for the TTYD remake…
But I think the biggest reason it didn’t sell as much as people would’ve expected…
Long story short…
Dialogue changes….
Footage got leaked online and some people were not too pleased with the dialogue changes…
And not just any script rewrite either…
But the kind that sparked controversy…
The kind that’s killing gaming as we speak…
As much as I cringed at the Vivian localization changes, I think performance and lack of 60fps was far more damaging than some stupid text. Also the remake barely added anything new to the table, meaning that those that already played it before had very little reason to revisit it unless if they like the game that much.
thank gosh you posted a vid bro i needed a dose of supermariot atleast once a month
I will say i believe one of the contributing factors as to why sales are not nearly as high is due to pirating nowadays its quite easy to get your hands on a modded switch and that has possibly offset the total potential sales of these games by at least 500k to 2 mil
It's between that & online emulators, but I really doubt it consists of that many people either. It didn't deter Tears of the Kingdom by any notable stretch given it's 20+ million selling record still makes it the 2nd best sold Zelda by a hefty amount. With how much smaller Paper Mario is compared to both the last 2 Zeldas & most Mario series, I'm pretty sure the pool of piraters is a fuck ton less.
As someone who experiences both camps (I like to get an early preview of the game if possible), piracy does not affect sales much. If anything, Piracy sometimes boost sales because it encourages people to support the official releases if they like the game that much. That's how I got hooked to buying my games.
I sure hope not… It’s off to a strong start at least, hopefully things will pick up a bit before the official Switch successor announcement.
It better not be a flop I bought that thing three times with the intention of buying it one more.
I really really hope those 3 copies you bought are physical 😖
Good video. I think you have a lot of valid points. I grew up loving Mario RPG games, so I've thought a lot about this topic. I bought both SMRPG and TTYD on launch day. Beat both. Loved both. I also played the originals back when they originally released. That never deterred me from buying them again, but I do know it did for some people.
The way I looked at it, I never thought Origami King was a good comparison for TTYD for a lot of the reasons you said. But I do think SMRPG is a good comparison as both are older games that are being remade after a long time. I think in both cases, some people just don't want to re-buy a game as mentioned above. Maybe timing has a little bit to do with it, but I do think Wonder took priority in a lot of households. So yes, the holiday window may have helped, but TTYD didn't have to compete with a brand new 2D Mario game. So there are a lot of variables for both of them.
I think pre-release, a lot of people expected TTYD to out sell SMRPG, which it didn't. Does it make it a flop? No. But I do think it's telling that there was quite a difference in the first six weeks. I do agree it's too early to tell. But if TTYD is under 2.5M, I think it's a let down, and I don't think that's the same as a flop. I don't think either game was ever going to get in the 5M+ range. But I won't lie, I thought it would be closer to SMRPG.
It'll get up there eventually it's just gonna take longer without the holliday release date it deserved
Not only we have paper mario... we got...CHIBI MARIO
I like that jump?
BABE WAKE UP SUPER MARIOT UPLOADED
So, a number of factors have to be considered when trying to compare Origami King to the TTYD remake as of right now. First, Origami King came out when lockdowns were being lifted in most places, and thanks to government money, people had extra to spend. Plus, many became gamers, even if just casually. Compare that to now when people are struggling to survive, and it's understandable why TTYD, from a first quarter standpoint, might seem like a flop by comparison. But we'll have to wait for lifetime sales to know for certain. All in all, it's not bad for a 20 year old game to have sold almost close to its previous lifetime sales in its few weeks is nothing to sneeze at.
Wouldn't it be more simple to compare its sales to the orginal?
@xionvixon3387 True. As I said at the end of my comment that it came close to lifetime sales of the original in just a few weeks. However, one thing we should also consider that I just thought about is that these numbers only count for physical sales of the game and not all sales. Digital game sales are not revealed by Nintendo, so it's possible that TTYD in both physical and digital have already surpassed the original lifetime sales and are at least close to Origami King in terms of first quarter sales. We don't actually know and probably never will.
@@eileensmiller8041odd...I thought they would count digital
@@xionvixon3387 No, they don't. I've looked into it
i think mario rpg "saturation" is actually a pretty big concern. im a fan of all the series and even i found myself deciding that ill have to pick one or the other. not everyone has time to play games never mind two games that are so similar back to back
When Christmas comes, SO MANY parents who grew up with TTYD are gonna get it for their kids.
I was hoping they keep the battle formula from now on in the next Paper Mario, since Thousand Year Door got remaster a few months ago. All Nintendo can do is promise us to keep the old battle turn mechanic comes back.
I have a weird curse where when I buy a game from the previous generations, it'll get a remake on the modern console a few days later. Skyward Sword, Kirby's Return To Dreamland, The 3D Mario games, Metroid Prime Trilogy, and the Thousand-Year Door. I would've gotten it, but I already spent 80 bucks.
Well obviously the people who want TTYD are becoming smaller and smaller, so they’re a much more niche group of people to sell too, so odds are Nintendo won’t go this route for paper Mario.
To be fair, we are still to see how the Holidays will affect its sales.
I think my main feeling is timing. It releases not just when switch 2 is all people are wondering of but also after another Mario RPGs. General consumers might not want another one so close. Even Pokemon games don’t come out this close to each other. So that could be a reason as sad as it is. Then again which order the 3 rpgs should go is a sad question since all three fandoms deserve to release first for numerous reasons. Still with the backwards compatibility I have faith this game will have legs. Even if not for a bit by the end who knows.
Whether it sold well or not, I'm just happy they made the game. Here's hoping they continue with that direction ttyd had.
I'll go out on a limb and say sales don't (entirely) matter.
Sure, sales matter, that's what every company wants.
But I'd argue that this game was made for two possible main reasons:
1. Mario & Luigi Brothership wasn't a factor at the time this game was finalized for production.
Considering Paper Mario's devs had gone on record to admit that they weren't doing Paper Mario games traditionally as they said that Mario & Luigi was the main RPG series, it's likely that Intelligent Systems took note that Alphadream was dead and decided to step up to create a Mario RPG, only for Brothership to be announced not long after.
2. The game was a guinea pig for future Paper Mario game development.
Pokemon aside because that's a whole different rabbit hole, most remakes that come from Nintendo's banner come from a certain reason. Most of them are system tech demos: Mario 64 DS, Ocarina of Time 3D and Star Fox 64 3D.
Wind Waker HD was stated in an Iwata Ask to be research into a new lighting engine which would be later used for the then "Zelda Wii U", and the Fast Sail was to show off the Wii U's better loading VS the GameCube, which ultimately had a hand in Breath of the Wild's loading of the open world. While Twilight Princess HD was done entirely for research into giving Link a wolf companion in Breath of the Wild, ultimately as the programming for both the wolf-style enemies and Wolf Link amiibo functionality...
It's also why we've not seen Switch ports of these two Zelda games.
So it's not that hard to argue that TTYD's remake was a deliberate decision to be used as a base for a future Paper Mario game, taking what had worked for that game and expanding it (that and Paper Mario 64 was going to be on N64 NSO, remaking that one wouldn't have worked logistically, since Gamecube games will never be emulated, Super Mario Sunshine on SM3DAS excluded)
However, now that Brothership has been announced and soon to be released, is Intelligent Systems going to continue Paper Mario in this manner? Or was TTYD just a one/done experiment?
I feel like the reception to it & especially RPG might signal to Nintendo it shouldn't be a one & done. Like you said, sales won't entirely matter but whether or not we factor Mario RPG sold better than TTYD & Origami King, RPG was basically universally praised for it's combat, charm, mechanics & everything the original game had, just updated to fit modern gaming standards. Even w/ the small controversies the remake for TTYD has across the 30fps, Vivian being trans & whatnot, they're so minor & make up so little people who played the game or cared to begin with that it's still being met with practically universal praise still, similar to the original. Mario & Luigi Brothership will likely also be met with better sales & definitely strong reception.
TTYD very well could be a one and done type of experiment after seeing Mario & Luigi and Mario RPG make comebacks too. But it's easy to argue they might not abandon either the remake's resources or TTYD's resources, in what its structure, mechanics & ideas offer. If they did plan to make TTYD a basis for future Paper Mario titles, it'd be a huge waste if they left anyways. As stubborn as they were about the whole matter, I'm sure Intelligent Systems is aware they'll face considerable pushback again if they up & leave the formula as they likely know why that formula's received much better than the recent formulas of the newer Paper Mario titles, and the backlash may have considerable size, if not at least a stronger basis, if they use RPG & Brothership as their basis to not bother again because while RPG is a lot closer to Paper Mario to compare, them & Mario & Luigi still offer different experiences & strengths all the same, these same people clamoring about them just want these series as Mario RPGs & to not affect one another as they never did the first decade they existed.
@@SuperMarioT The only issue I have in the long run is they've been met with pushback in interviews for years following Sticker Star with fans and critics outright getting more vocal since Color Splash that they wanted a Paper Mario game that was like TTYD, and yet since Color Splash they've reacted with:
"Mario & Luigi is the RPG series, so Paper Mario doesn't need to be like that"
And
"Paper Mario is an action/adventure series"
I can understand in that regard that they decided to do TTYD as a remake because Mario & Luigi was no longer around - they no longer had the excuse, and TTYD's was a return to form in order to gauge the idea that returning to the original turn-based battle would not only be lucrative as far as profits but also they could use it as a basis for a future game.
But this is also the greater Nintendo umbrella we're talking about where they would definitely do things the fans would hate because they think it works better, and refuse to change from that stance.
Hence, the whole not bringing WWHD & TPHD to Switch or not going back to the original formula even after backlash.
It's why, while I enjoyed Brothership's announcement, I fear that Paper Mario would go back after TTYD's remake because the Paper Mario team could just go back to the excuse of Mario & Luigi being the RPG series to not work on another Paper Mario RPG game.
I think a big problem with this discourse is that people treat sales numbers like a zero-sum game with a “winner” and “losers”. A game can sell well for a lot of reasons but pure quality is almost never the only reason.
If you're comparing the sales of TTYD to Origami King, compare it to the other, higher-selling Mario RPGS.
Super Paper Mario sold almost 4 and a half million while Bowser's Inside Story sold a little bit more than that. Comparatively, I think for releasing around the end of the Switch's life on top of releasing between two already highly regarded/anticipated Mario RPGs, WITHOUT immediately considering the sales it will make later this year, I think it sold amazingly so far!
With some time, I'm sure we'll see some real good numbers. It also helps to point out that TOK sold during the pandemic (look at Animal Crossing) as well as there were a big catalog of games for the Switch near the end of 2023 and all the way to now.
Stay hopeful gamers!
Gotta remember og mario rpg didn't come up in pal regions
The best Paper Mario game sells like this and people wonder why Nintendo won't give us Mother 3.
You grind in smash ultimate? Like you go to local tournaments? Whats your main?
Mario, but I have a K. Rool, a Min Min & a Palu. Also yes, I try to go locals whenever I have the spare time & cash, otherwise I try to make time to grind Matchbox/Smashpros or Smash Ult grinding discords.
I'm incredibly happy with the remake and it's sales, honestly I have nothing to complain about it, TTYD is my favorite game of all time and I highly prefer the remake! The 30 FPS is hardly noticeable to me, and I don't mind if I can't skip past the text since I never do that myself (you can still skip past repeated text and repeated cutscenes), it had my favorite graphics in the franchise, and I love all the new OST and remixes. The QoL stuff and new additions are awesome too. I can't go back to the original now and I will always enjoy TTYD Remake as my favorite game of all time!! :)
Well, it's...obviously kinda not? People often reference Origami King and that the original TTYD had a much less successful console, but RPGs don't really scale like that(If they did, TTYD Switch would have had to outsell all games under the Persona 5 branding combined to keep up with GC TTYD's ratios because "the Switch has such a magnitude of more potential customers"), not even for Mario. If anything, these two releases only make TTYD Switch's first month sales look smaller because they were disgustingly overperforming by genre standards if we take the ratios literally.
Super Paper Mario also sold incredibly well for RPG standards, but that was an action RPG and jumping is what Mario is known for, so it argubly does not really qualify for the metric.
As a sidenote: Nevermind that the Switch is literally on its way out btw, that is an important factor for games that people often forget. People also claim that Fire Emblem Echoes did poorly because it only managed one milion and those people are legitimately out of their mind. That game sold 80% of its initial japan shipment and actually went on to *sell more 3DS units*, when they just released it as a filler game, expecting it to just soak up residual sales from existing system owners. Context matters a lot.
SMRPG really warranted a remake, TTYD was already a "modern" game, even with all the extra fluff even someone like me who loved the GC version didn't buy the Remake.
I am almost positive this game was supposed to be on the Switch 2. The colored buttons completely give it away for me. (Something that late stage Switch games all seem to have despite that not being part of the design language for years.) Hopefully when the next console is revealed/released, Nintendo will use it as one of the games to show off the graphics of the new system. (4k + 60FPS) Maybe if they do, the game will gain a second wind.
A lot of games this year feel like Switch 2 games that they pushed forward- Mario Party especially. So, in context of these games being meant to just tide Nintendo over till they get to the next big thing, I think that their sales expectations will be adjusted to fit that.
If it makes anyone feel better, think of it this way: if you combine the amount of sales with TTYD from between the OG and the Remake, it ends up outsaling SS AND TOK! Woo! We did it! ✊️
It's a valid point. TTYD Switch was just that: A remaster, it wasn't a brand new game.
Stonks! Who would've thunk two games would sell more than one
@@Quinhala11I've got to manipulate the numbers... That's how desperate we all are for this to succeed... 😮💨
@@Quinhala11 TTYD is only one game my dude 😂
@@TheDynomiteGuy If one person buys a game and another person also buys that game, that equals two sales. It's not manipulation, it's simple math . Didn't think that need to be explained.
Dumb changes stopped me from buying it, plus I have a game cube and it plays just fine on there.
its gonna happen again, in some years the switch version of TTYD door will be just as expensive as the Gamecube one
I really liked this game! Just got to Chapter 4!
Remakes that come out near the end of a console generation historically sell less.
Using Fire Emblem as an example:
Fire Emblem Gaiden, Thracia 776, Path of Radiance, Shadows of Valentia, Engage all released near the end of console generations and did worse than their previous console itterations whenever applicable. The remake all sold even worse than their console brethrens comparatively. For Path of Radiance, Shadows of Valentia and Thracia 776, they sold especially poorly. For all three, the successor was either announced or released, making this even worse.
End of console lifespan plus remake plus successor expected is the worst combination for sales. TTYD did pretty good considering.
TTYD runs at 60fps on Switch 2 trust me :)
I get that OK had a lot more going in its favor but I would like to meet someone who bought that and skipper TYD and ask them why
Also I know you referenced it and I have seen it too but people who say Arms flopped, what are they talking about? It did well for a new IP. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw Arms 2. Wonder if they think Astral Chain flopped too? (it didn’t). People see 20+ mil sellers and think a game needs to hit 10+ mil to be a success but that’s not the case, very few games hit that mark
30fps stopped me from buying it unfortunately
Kind of an ignorant reason to not buy a game. Ugh the stupidity of performance whores 🙄🙄
I couldn't get it at launch I have to wait due to finances.
ITS BEEN A YEAR ALREADY???
24:06 My dude, I think you meant “Brothership”, not “Paper Jam”, since you refer to the one releasing October 2024. Also…Paper Jam was awesome (probably riding on my love of both Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario)!
No, I refer to how Mario & Luigi's always been good, Paper Jam's also good but it is significantly more uninspired & often marked the only uninspired one because of the bland story, safe character roster using nothing but pre-established Mario enemies & lack os unique locations.
I wouldn’t call it a flop it’s more that it was still released on the switches 7 year span which people were getting dried on. Now did it sold well even though it didn’t passed origami king sale? I believe it did
personally, im not really that concerned about sales and stuff. I just wanted it to outsell origami king bc i care about the direction of the series and that would help. Honestly though, i think the good press they got for this remaster was really a stark contrast to the awful press they got for the modern paper mario games, so call me naive, but i think the next paper mario will be a functional RPG lol…maybe theyll indulge. In some paper gimmicks tho
I wouldve bought it but i dont want to keep buying games for the switch when the switch 2 is around the corner
This I think is the big one in general.
As someone who's been a Mario RPG Warrior since the OG Paper Mario on N64 (back in 2001, when I was finishing Kindergarten and starting 1st grade), I'm not that disappointed with the TTYD remake is flop (assuming it is as of the making of this comment).
What’s the quarter of the year?
3 months, each year is split into 4 quarters.
Just wait for Christmas, and then it will sell
I'd have bought the remake of tii werent for 2 reasons;
1. I already have the original and still enjoy it to this day as is.
2. It has almost no new content from the original, the only diffrence is a couple post game bosses.
So not really worth the 60$ price tag for my situation
I would say further reasons to why TTYD remake didn't sell that great are:
1. It's not a new game so some people might feel like they don't need to buy it.
2. It's not the first Paper Mario game on Switch and casual gamers are less inclined to buy another game in the same series on the same console.
3. Due to controvertial changes like the 30 fps and the "censorship" some people might've been convinced to boycott the game.
A new Paper Mario game on the next console would not be affected by these 3 points and hopefully Nintendo was convinced to make more games like TTYD so they can see how popular this formula truly is.
I'm a casual gamer and this game looked cute, but was just too expensive.
i beat it like a week ago lol that shadow queen fight was a pain. killed me twice until i got smarter with my strategy and switched out my partners to optimize attacks. in the end it was Goombella's rally wink that enabled me to get the extra hit i needed
People who work at Walmart target Best Buy and GameStop should turn away customers looking for the next Nintendo console saying “sorry we don’t have any in stock”. If Nintendo releases another paper Mario that doesnt return to its original form.
I think the TTYD remake is sort of fun, other than the changed art style from SS/CS/OK, and the strict timing on Superguards. I ended up giving up on it a month ago due to Boggly Woods, though. That doesn't mean that I was in favor of a remake. I made a Gamefaqs post about it, and constantly defended SS/CS fans from the harassment they received from TTYD fans. I do think that the original N64 game should have gotten a remake first, but I understand why TTYD got one beforehand.
Part of me is very happy the game sold poorly due to how annoying TTYD fans are. Same for Pokemon BDSP. "Genfourers/Genfivers" are very annoying. Harassing fans of the 3DS games and claiming that the DS games are the best, though we all know it is due to nostalgia. That's what they all get for harassing the minority fans and begging so much.
bruh the game havnt even been out for a year
the final sale number comes about 2 years after the release because everyone who want it wouldve gotten it by then
I wouldn’t call it a flop.
Fire Emblem Engage sold significantly less than Fire Emblem: Three Houses and I didn’t consider it a flop.
It basically existing is an automatic W! Ever since TTYD was remade every semblance of a progressive adventure was erased. There will be no "Next Paper Mario" this is it, you're done. Live with it. Get good!
TLDR: No.
What i think happened was that the people who never played the original TTYD and bought the Origami were probably actually burned by Origami King and thought that it was going to be the same as that and they never got the remake. Remember that some kids don't even know it's a remake. It didn't even say that in the title.
Plus, the ads did heavy on the "grand paper adventure" type of nonsense.
Considering the game was released near the end of the system's life, reused a ton of assets and was finished ahead of schedule.
I think Nintendo still saw it as a success with those sales.
Yeah but will that success mean that Paper Mario on Switch 2 will be a continuation of TTYD?
The art style of the original game is so good it did not need a remake like this. They should have revamped it in HD and slapped a 20-30$ price tag on it
I literally have the game. How is it a flop? It looks really good and I think it’s gonna sell crazy during the holiday season like all switch games.
I want it. Can't afford it.
TTYD on the Switch didn't flopped. It's just that I already 100% completed it. Post-Game content and all. 😂
It better not be
Why cant nintendo games have voices
You see its because super mario rpg is the better game
I wouldn't worry about it a bit as well, I'm sure the lousy complainers that called us Nintendo Fanboys and tried their absolute hardest to prove us wrong are already Screaming Bloody murder by now. 😆
I didnt buy it, i was hoping for 60fps.