An Overly Long and Critical Review of Paper Mario: The Origami King
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- Опубликовано: 2 дек 2020
- I have some very serious problems with Paper Mario: The Origami King.
If you like what I do, please consider supporting me on Patreon!
/ arlostuff
TWOOTER: @ArloStuff
BOOKFACE: ArloStuff
This video was edited by the lovely Kane!
/ farfetchdreviews
Additional footage credits:
drive.google.com/file/d/1T-xz...
"Reloaded Installer #11" by LHS.
/ @lhschiptunes 
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The people that came up with "Olivia calls him Bobby but he's not actually called Bobby" are my favorite lawyers.
Honestly it's just adorable when Olivia calls Bob-omb that. -w-
This seems similar to that situation where Fox wasn't legally allowed to use the character "Joker" on the show "Gotham." They could use Bruce Wayne and the rest of his rogues gallery, but Joker, specifically, was off-limits. Well, to make a long story short, there were dozens of clown princes of crime who would never refer to themselves by that specific alias, for purely legal reasons. IDK, the whole thing got really complicated and it's much more convoluted than it ever needed to be, all because some executive somewhere made a stupid decision. There's a video about it somewhere.
Actually, I take that back Jerome and Jeremiah Valeska (and many more) were this concept of bending the stupid rules without technically breaking them turned up to 11... maybe even up to 13/10. Something I think the Paper Mario series should start doing. That is if they don't grow a pair and take the Nick Fury approach, which for that one person unfamiliar with the quote is: *"I recognise the council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it."*
Bruh
@@Wendy_O._Koopa remember the MCU "mutants" (Quick silver and Scarlet witch)
They should have when with Bhomas instead
Arlo: "I've spent a lot of time praising the game but it's all downhill from here."
Me: checks time
17:05
1:05:59 remaining
_Yikes_
😂😂😂 I knew it was gonna get good
+
@@aaronl22 +
Arlo spent 15 minutes on being mad that the characters referenced their paper world- like he has core dwelled on the negativity. This game really deserves more positivity.
@@charlesintune You are one of those people not ready for Arlo's critical reviews. He warned you boy
To this day I am super confused with the direction of the series. You don't want to continue RPG mechanics because it can be off-putting to newcomers yet you decide a tricky circle puzzle is easier than a beginners RPG
They had a game in the series that barely had RPG mechanics and could've been adjusted to be the Action-Adventure game they want PM to be, yet they keep ignoring it in favor of a butchered version of RPG they keep trying to tell you isn't an RPG while shoving THE RPG feature, turn-based combat, into their messes of games.
If they wanna call the modern Paper Marios “Action-Adventure” games, well… make just that!
Same. I find puzzles so much more of a barrier to entry. They just aren't reallly fun, and tend to get frustrating.
It's true tho, I've shown kids the first Paper Mario game to get into and games like Origami King have proven to be too difficult for them to comprehend. Nintendo think they're touching on a very young audience with games like this but the games are actually very inaccessible for newcomers. It's too convoluted for them to get a grasp on it. Yet still to this day I'll put on Mario 64 for a 5 year old and he'll have a blast with it just as much as I did back in 2000.
I think making it non rpg like made sense when we had the Mario and Luigi series but since that series seems to be on hiatus they made as well take this opportunity to bring back the rpg elements to this game, it doesn’t even need to be full rpg it could just bring back partners and experience points and that’d be enough
A girl I work with was playing this game, and I heard her say "Oh man, I have to do a fight? I don't want to do a fight!" and (knowing nothing about the game or its reception) I thought "That's not a good sign if someone is upset when they have to engage in the game's combat." I ended up buying it on sale because she said it was decent, and after an hour or so I'm feeling the same way. Most of the game seems fun, but when I have to do combat I'm like "I don't want to do a fight!"
I know this is a polarizing idea, but I love the paper aesthetic myself. My GOD, the amount of detail that is in this game is staggering. I cannot imagine how much effort it took the artist at Nintendo to create this world and how they did. It's stunning, but... it's hard to want to appreciate the beauty of this game when you're stopped every so often to solve a puzzle for combat.
Don't get me wrong, the Ring System is actually pretty neat, and I think it's great that Nintendo is willing to try different systems out for their core games. At least for Paper Mario. But maybe they should calm down on the battles if it would rely so heavily on this puzzle-solving aspect. Maybe cut the battles in half or reduce their number to optional or short combat sections.
Or, save the ring puzzles for boss encounters and have just a more traditional turn-based combat system for regular encounters. Ah, but, no, that would make this WAY too close to those three dreaded letters "RPG" we can't possibly have this game be compared to THAT! Despite still relying so heavily on the backbone of the games that came before that were RPGs...
Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that they are willing to try something new with the combat system, and I love the aesthetic. Yes, it's just paper, but I can appreciate just how much time and effort must have gone into making this world. If Nintendo had just changed or tweaked some stuff, make the Ring Puzzles bosses only, or did something else, I think many would see this as the best Paper Mario game since Thousand-Year Door.
@Joel Johnson Have you played 64, TYD, Super, SS and CS?
@@nicegoatdoctor8224 Don’t be a prick because someone liked a game :)
@@nicegoatdoctor8224 Just cause you found other games better it doesn't mean this game can't be better to someone else
@Joel Johnson The only other PM game I've played was SS but this one was a lot of fun too
To me, these teeny, tiny baby steps back toward what they did in Thousand-Year Door is like admitting defeat. It's showing they know it was better before and are iterating back to it little-by-little, but in only going back a little, it's also admitting that they just will not deliver what works.
Also, yes, I think how much they hammer in "everything's paper" is a big sign that the people in charge are aware of Paper Mario on a surface level, but don't understand it. In Paper Mario 1, you had actually three moments that acknowledged it: Kammy Koopa being taped into the story to mess with the way the narrator was telling it, Mario falling off the veranda and waving down to the ground, and Mario sliding into bed. One told the story better and the other two are funny throwaway gags that are over quickly. I guess the buildings unfold too, but that's very minor and purely stylistic. Thousand-Year Door and Super went a bit heavier on it with Mario's abilities and a few more gags, but nothing too crazy. The newer games feel like someone's very lite understanding of what it is, akin to the advertisements that were made back in the day that took the title literally. Now it's constant "HAY I'M MADE OF PAPER! DID YOU KNOW YOU'RE MADE OF PAPER? CAUSE WE'RE PAPER, BABY! I STILL HAVE CREASES FROM WHEN I SLEPT ON MY FOOT WRONG. CAUSE I'M MADE OF PAPER. HEY, YOU KNOW WHERE THE SCISSORS ARE? CAUSE WE'D BETTER WATCH OUT FOR THEM! CAUSE WE'RE PAPER! OH MAN, IT'S A GOOD THING I'M A PAPER TOAD AND NOT A PAPER ALIMONY CHECK! THAT'S SO FUNNY, RIGHT?" every second of the game.
I haven't yet tried Origami King, this next point is how I feel about Color Splash, so disregard it if it's no longer true in Origami King. Everyone says Color Splash is such a brilliant, funny, well-written game, and I just don't see it. When everything's a joke, nothing is. It doesn't take itself seriously for five seconds or do anything other than tell constant jokes about paper, so I'm never caught off guard or get a break from any of it. It feels like it has to jump up and down, reminding us how funny it is. EarthBound is this same type of writing done much better because many lines make you double-take, or give you sound advice about life you don't expect, or are surprisingly deep and depressing reads that relate to your darkest places in between all the jokes. You saying the story in Origami King is occasionally epic gives me a little hope I won't feel as bothered by it this time around. I plan to try it out soon, but I'm absolutely buying it used so I don't feel like I wasted my money if I'm as annoyed by it as you were.
Good work on the review! I think it might be the kick I need to try out this thing I've been dreading. Also, I still maintain you should try Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition if you want story, big lore, and unique characters. I'll even help you as a personal hotline if you don't understand the gameplay!
Chugga’s Large Comment Deluxe. I agree with all the points you’re making, as well as everything Arlo said in the review. I did even end up buying Origami King day 1 and I still don’t know if I regret getting it at 60. At least I got some neat pins from my pre order bonus I guess.
The “I still have my creases I slept on my foot wrong” was shockingly acuurate
Damn, I wish I had a Chugga hotline.
I've never played a Paper Mario game in my life, but listening to Arlo vent about it is both entertaining and soul-crushing.
As an outsider looking in, wow. I am so sorry. This is even worse than the controversy around Kingdom Hearts. I don't want to shift the conversation to that, but just saying I can kind of relate to y'all with a series that I love. Feels bad
@@prettyoriginalnameprettyor7506 I swear if that joke is in Origami King, I didn’t know about it. I was purposely trying to exaggerate how forced the paper humor is. If that’s actually a real thing they said...
The legend himself
So what you're saying is the Ring didn't Fit this Adventure?
Lmaoo
I mean at least that was an RPG, you can technically skip battles later on, but bosses become harder to beat if you aren't on-level.
Ring Fit Adventure is a better RPG than the Origami King. Ring Fit has real life exp and a lot more incentive to batlle
The energy system is pretty busted in that game. Can't even play 2 hours before running out of energy
Fuck that stupid ring
The whole “spend coins to get around challenges” just sounds like real life to me
Not when you are going through an ancient temple or something. It just doesn’t work like that in real life. A trap is not set up for you when they either don’t want you to progress or challenging you all to just have a money donation to skip a challenge. It just makes no sense
Video games aren't supposed to be anything like real life. Can't understand why people want games to be like real life.
@@TohGahr true! A game is not real life, but the game is set with the data in mind to make the game relative to the real world. If the game is not featured around that, then the game is not relatable. What kind of enemy would just agree to set up a trap to stop you from proceeding, just to have you throw money away and they’ll be like “thanks for the generous donation, you are free to pass” they will kill you even if you have money anyway.
I feel bad for you bro, no one got your joke
@@lawofgames9978shit take sorry
Anyone else back to this after the Paper Mario TTYD remake announcement?
Also go play Bug Fables.
Yes, have a few Arlo paper Mario videos a rewatch. It’s bittersweet going over it now that we can finally return to Rougeport.
bug fables is so goated, might honestly like the combat more than ttyd
Yep, and I've played Bug Fables and am very excited for the remake
the remake is SO GOOD you guys omg
@@adora_was_taken glad to hear, now also play Bug Fables. 🐛 🐞 🐝
Arlo's 3D World review: Less than 5 minutes long.
Arlo's Origami King review: A literal feature length film.
Arlo’s Breath of the Wild Review: A Lord of the Rings installment.
To be fair, his reviews have changed a lot since 2013. You know his video on 3D World on Switch will be over 45 minutes long
Have u seen his botw review? It is longer than ENDGAME.
@@cosamallender3276 I’d watch it again over Endgame lol. Well not watch like a movie but have in the background while I exercise or play games
@@timeland8343 Less than 30.
_"I've spent a lot of time praising the game, but it's all downhill from here"_
says Arlo with 66 out of 83 minutes still remaining :') oh dear
That's how I knew I needed to make tea and get cozy for this lol
Paul Millcamp exactly what I was thinking
and he said that when he stopped praising at 17 min
Lol yes
@Eric Lee new to the internet? :')
I don’t understand Tanabe’s logic in the slightest; it seems he’s just blatantly contradicting himself at this point.
He often brings up the notion of keeping the world within the bounds of the established Mario universe, and yet every one of these last 3 Paper Mario entries has featured stuff that feels _glaringly_ out of place in a Mario game (giant fans, vacuum cleaners...). I certainly found those weird, pseudo-realistic objects in Sticker Star far more jarring and immersion-breaking than anything in 64 or TTYD.
Also goes for the characters and the no new characters dumb rule. Not only have there been new Mario characters and species in new mario games, but even in Origami King there's a bunch of new characters, sure they're not named, but they're still new. And i'm not referring to the bosses, or the origami guys
@@Duskool I mean, we got Kersti, Huey, Olivia, and Olly.
So they aren't even following that 'rule'.
I think it makes sense. I don’t like it, but it makes sense. The point is that Nintendo is actively against the Paper Mario series treating itself as an expansion of the Mario universe. The new characters being blatantly immersion breaking and not fitting in the Mushroom Kingdom isn’t a contradiction, it’s the entire point of the rule. They want to make sure that anything new introduced in Paper Mario is obviously strictly expanding on _the Paper Mario world,_ and so they all have to clearly be things that only make sense in a world where everything is paper. The whole point is a refusal to allow anyone else to control, change, or expand the Mario brand, and so the only time Paper Mario is allowed to do something unique is when it’s reminding you that this is all a separate paper world with no bearings on the _real_ Mario universe. Frankly, I think we could see beginnings of this even back in SPM, since most of the original characters in that game used a different style of character design based heavily around simple geometric shapes, with unique individuals of existing Mario races being pretty minimal. I hope that the TTYD remake is a sign that they’re willing to ease up on this, because I really think there’s a lot more appeal to the idea of a coherent Mario universe with locations that feel real and lived in than there is to a world where it’s Mario, but made of paper.
@@iwest6256Never thought of it that way. But yea, it's not like they couldn't have both. A paper World where things are actually happening and have continuity and are interesting rather than paper related event du jour occurs and is immediately forgotten about afterwards.
yea and having original characters is a better option than being restricted like they are because it opens more possibilities to what they can do with characters if they continue to use the same ones over and over without any improvement people start to get bored of them when you add new stuff to them it gives them the extra spice they need to keep being awesome and get even better with designs and personalities so yea the no new mario characters rule is very disturbing hopefully after the ttyd remake they can introduce new characters into the mario universe again cause it’s getting boring with just the same bland characters over and over
In case anyone doesn’t know already -
if you miss the old Paper Mario mechanics, play Bug Fables, it’s great
It’s crazy how impactful just TWO games have done to the indie development field (there are fan-made indie directs dedicated to only paper-Mario inspired games). A similar thing is with the Metroid series, but at least Nintendo is even respectful to the heart of it and is letting it reach higher highs with Metroid Dread. It’s just a massive headache how the last three titles in Paper Mario are in this ego war
imo I really liked how super paper mario played. I'm not that big of a fan of turn based battles, but I love the exploration and creative ideas on the first two games... I would much rather not having turn based battles at all rather than they just adding a stupid repetitive battle system (I do like the battle system on the first two games, but I dislike the ones on the 3 most recent games).
I just wish I could see paper mario having original characters again, the character designs and personalities were just so damn good.
If I’m someone who liked the classic Paper Mario series mainly for their stories and for the fact that those games were about Mario’s story, would you say that I would still like Bug Fables just as much as those games?
@@Masked_Mastermind bug fables does try to tell a story with their characters, your party members all have something going on with them. It's pure love to TTYD play wise and how they provide story and interaction. Great game hope to see more
@@P0intxOfxImp4ct But if I liked those games mainly due to the Mario IP, would you say that I would still like Bug Fables?
“Throwing us a bone” *shows Mario being given bone item*
😂
gg's
-Kane
Kane is always so clever.
It’s weird when you see Mario odyssey a game that has all entirely new things and the only thing Mario related is Mario himself. So it makes me wonder why did they have such strict limitations for paper Mario
There's your answer. Nintendo doesn't want Paper Mario to outshine mainline Mario. Arlo may not want to admit it, but Nintendo sees Paper Mario as a spinoff series, and thus, must be subservient to the main series. I know that some will say they shouldn't but hey, Nintendo decided on this dichotomy, not me.
@@therealfanmaster7097 I hate how plausible that idea sounds.
@Hen well you know maybe paper Mario would sell 30 million units if they made a good game. Just because it’s less popular doesn’t mean it’s exempt from criticism
Honestly though it would be awesome to see some Odyssey characters in a Mario spin off
@@therealfanmaster7097 That would be the most likely explanation in a lot of cases, but it doesn’t make sense for this particular one. Intelligent Systems and Nintendo aren’t competitors; Nintendo owns Intelligent Systems. However well (or poorly) the Paper Mario games sell, it’s ultimately Nintendo getting the money from the sales, just like with the main series games.
Nintendo don’t lose anything if Paper Mario sells well; on the contrary, it’s in their interests for it to sell as many copies as possible.
“If it’s not fun, why bother?” Reggie Fils-Aime
I guess when he left he took that quote with him in this case? :(
Reggie had no say in any game's design. He was the head of NoA, which is a glorified localization company.
@@swishfish8858 well I mean I didn't mean that literally lol, just a coincidence
No they made chibi robo zip lash with him in there.
No he didn't ... I have a lot more non-nintendo games on my Switch. But that vast amount of time I spend with Nintendo developed and Nintendo funded/published games. It's because they are mostly really fun, playful or creative. Also I enjoy Origami King quite a lot even though the main story and main bosses are pretty "meh".
@@swishfish8858that is an unfair statement of someone who played games, good person. Reggie has admitted to play Smash Bros and Animal Crossing, So if someone that has played games have no say on what a game is supposed to be, then gamers who reviewed a game they don’t want to play by cutscenes have no say either.
You are admitting putting down someone’s words without knowing who that someone is, and you should be ashamed of yourself!
They should make Paper Mario either just an adventure game like Zelda, or a traditional RPG like the first two games. The problem is that newcomers will find the turn based battles unnecessary and veterans will wish they had more incentive to fight.
I would be fine with just an adventure game tbh.
I'm surprised they haven't done Paper Zelda or Paper Metroid yet.
@@mental263 i agree with you i’d love for them to go back to the rpg roots but they need to do either an rpg or full action adventure
@@Kurumithespiritnightmare super paper mario was great
@@RaphielShiraha64 i agree with you it was really great and it’s honestly my favorite in the paper mario seories even though it was different it still had the core elements from the first 3 which is why it was still good as i hate all 3 of the newer games because they took everything away that i liked about the seories seoriously frick all of the newer games and just boycot them for bug fables because they aren’t true paper mario games like bug fables is
"Why have fun when you can have something NEW?"
Honestly, that sums up too many video game series.
And then there are series that are
Why have something new when it will sell anyway! (Pokémon and Call of Duty)
I can't tell if Pokemon is on the opposite side of that coin or if it's part of that same exact problem.
Dangit, I just hate having to worry about what's next on the chopping block. I miss having new Ultra Beasts, I miss Secret Bases, I miss Pokemon Contests, even the Alola Photo Club. I swear, if the open world gameplay is only gonna stay in Gen 8...
@@Glory2Snowstar I just want a pokemon game that is MY adventure. gen 8 not just feels like they are holding your hand, but dragging you along a path and never letting go. Im of the opinion the Sequels should always take into account things that worked well and either add to them or keep them, change or scrap what didnt. Thats the baseline. then you add new stuff once you've delt with the old problem. going back to Pokemon, i couldnt get through a second playthrough of sun and moon because there's so many cutscenes and unskippable dialog that the game doesnt actually let you play it. without the cutscenes the game would be at least 6 hours shorter. The Paper Mario have forgotten that the series was a RPG first. and THATS what made it popular along with its world. But im just saying it, they have no idea how to make a competent and fun RPG.
@@ireplytoeverything3122 Remember that time we made something you enjoyed? Let's just shove as much as possible in this game that only serves to remind you of how much more fun you'd have if you were playing that instead. Why put effort into new and fun ideas when we can rehash things that worked in the past, but do it poorly because we refuse to understand what made those ideas good?
@Darling Vexa Art Why do people keep saying that people who complain are gonna buy anyway, are these people truly so free of cash, that $60-$90 would be worth a casual experience?
"I spent a lot of time praising the game, but it's all downhill from here"
Minute 17 of an hour and 20' video.
Well that escalated quickly
17 minutes praising a game is still pretty good. That's longer than most game reviews just by itself.
😂 😂 😂
@@johnkula1536 I love that this has 17 likes, too XD And I getcha, 17 minutes is good, I suppose ^^
The whole game just screams "We're working with what we've got"
Is mr l from ttyd?
@@Chrisizdumb I come from a game much more *super* than TTYD.
@@greattitan371 Super Paper Mario, the gateway from the old RPGs and that overrated game about some door, to the new things like arts and crafts references in the title.
@Regression Works me who's nostalgic for sticker star because it was my first paper mario game:
I followed Reggie's golden rule: "If it's not fun, why bother?" Stopped somewhere in the second world because it just didn't feel worth it.
A great philosophy to follow, i loved TTYD because it was just fun throughout, from the chromatic music to the turn based battles that need active player input, to the story and jokes. TTYD is a game I'm proud to call a my childhood.
Origami King was great but after 1hr i realized the battle system wasn't enjoyable and i started trying to minimize fights and dropped it after that first ribbon. Honestly i think Origami King would be a perfectly fine game if not for the battle system being so painful instead of the joy that it was in TTYD. (Something to consider for a rom hack, what if you just bring back the old combat system and do nothing else, how much better would the game be?)
For real I stopped right before the big ocean section and recently went back to the game to finish it. Needless to say I got absolutely no joy from finishing this game at all. It felt like it just dragged so hard and (SPOILER)
when Olivia sacrificed herself to turn the world back to normal I felt nothing. The whole final boss and specifically the Origami Bowser portion felt so uninspired. I'm playing Persona 5 now just for a palate cleanser because honestly I wanted to play Origami King as a nice stress reducer but it did the complete opposite and angered me.
@@lowtier369the final boss was literally the most inspired part of the game 😭
Another thing to add to this review is the hidden requirements for "102%". Finishing the game without ever getting a Game Over, as well as finishing the game without ever equipping a battle accesory will give you two extra marks on your save file, and these are entirely missable because the game never hints at them, and because of how easy it is to die in certain challenges. I learned about them halfway through my playthrough and was pretty darn pissed by it.
*spit takes* What?! This thing has a 102% completion "reward?" Why?!
@@eatatjoes6751 I don't think the achievements themselves are bad, it's just how they're completely hidden from the player, forcing them to restart from scratch once they learn about them, that is awful.
@@Hawlo Like, who does Nintendo think it is, Toys for Bob?! Why would you force people to restart once they find out the achievements exist?!
I'm not a completionist but.... really??
Jirard "The Completionist" Khalil also got hit by this, hidden completion requirements are not good at all.
If it's something you can still do regardless on the save file it's not bad, but if it's something like this that slaps you in the face it's just questionable design.
Arlo: “It’s all downhill from here”
*sees we’re only at **17:15*
oh dear
Oh Rudolph the red-nose-raindeer!
Has a red shining noooose
Honestly he's just focusing on the negative LOL Arlo admits to focusing on what the game could be not how great it actually is.
lol
@@charlesintune did you even see the first 18mins of the vid? What you wanted? Saying the game was all fun and games
@@charlesintune Nintendo fanboys really interpret anything that isn’t blind praise as “overly negative”
I just loved how the first time Mario and Olivia sat on a bench, when Olivia gets too close, Mario moves away, he´s like: "Ew... an origami creature"...
It can't be just me who loved how in earlier paper mario games literally everyone would fall for mario for no reason
😅been wishing to see that ever since.
@@kk5direIt's the 'stache man.
I can't believe this review is three years old now, it feels like it came out just the other day and I still come back to rewatch from time to time
Paper Mario: Can't dress up the toads or goombas too fancy. It's against the rules.
Mario Kart Tour: And we'll have Mario as Santa, and we'll have Bowser as a construction worker, and we'll have Birdo dressed as a victorian era merchant fleet admiral, and...
That last one is the best thing that has ever been typed ever.
Waluigi as a bus driver in London
... there's literally part of the game where you play cosplaying Mario, Bobby, Olivia with japanese clothing.
Also, some Toads and Bowser's army have unique designs too if that aren't not enough. Like, Shangri Spa Toads and those guys in Shogun Studios.
@@naufanabd nope you are wrong sorry but you are wrong
@@user-bb2op9he1x Actually no, He’s not wrong
Think about this: Paper mario can't have RPG mechanics, progression systems or useful items because they don't want it to drive off the casual crowd....
But Ring Fit Adventure can have all that.
It has RPG mechanics, a good progression system and a slew of upgrades and items.
A sports game can have that but paper Mario can't.
It hurts
This. So true.
Pain.
and i bet that ring fit adventure had better sales too lmfao
@@cosmo2590 oh boy did it ever! It was completely sold out in any of my local stores for a while. Which is saying something, cause it costs like 80 bucks
For some reason I really like how Arlo calls all enemies “guys”.
This is the same problem I've been seeing in pokemon for a while. Each new generation adds another gimmick for the sake of adding, just to say "LOOK, A NEW THING". Instead of making the game better, they want to make it "fresh"
Paper mario is innovating a little too much. Pokemon just isn't innovative at all
Pokemon is wine that needs to be aged and refined, not sushi that needs to be fresh.
Pokemon has lacked a serious distinction between experimentation and genuine innovation since gen 4. Dumb things that should have been dropped after the first time like contests keep popping back up, while potential additions like following pokemon and mega evolution are dropped. The series just seems to dependent on reception in this aspect. Even then, if it's too recourse heavy too keep perminatley, it's just dropped.
@@lukebytes5366 I love Pokémon Contests, personally. I love triple battles and rotation battles, too.
Thankfully, Arceus is disproving this
ARLO BIG IDEA HERE: Do reviews for the old Paper Mario games. It would be fun for you to revisit them. Plus we would enjoy real, positive Paper Mario videos. I feel like it would be very fun for us and you
Underrated comment
I think we should also get Arlo to promise that, if a new Paper Mario or Mario RPG is made, he should do another Let's Play :).
not gonna like because the like count it 69 backwards
@@LuigiLament someone else spoiled that for you lol
@@Arob4343 im so mad
"You can press x to pauze the puzzle, they must have thought about that right?!"
Me, after 95%-ing it: 👁️👄👁️
Thats also me when I realize that there is a secret 2% you can unlock without using badges or getting gameovers.
Yeah, that wasn’t just you. I think it was legitimately an oversight.
You don't even need to use the hint system to pause. Just take a screenshot, hit the Home button, and go look at it until you figure it out.
So yeah, hints pausing the game like that was probably an oversight, but it's kinda moot anyway.
@@7Marx7 yeah, I screenshot the puzzles with boos and piranha plants, because I hated how they disappeared on you. I seriously think that piranha plants should have been encountered before boos, because the plants only disappear when you move their tiles, and are found in the 5th chapter. Boos disappear right when the battle begins and are in the 3rd chapter.
I beat the game and never knew that and just used the screenshot button to death.
It feels like the better the game is, the more frustrating the limitations are
I think they took this review to heart, seeing that were now getting a TTYD Remaster(/Remake?)
Thank God!
Its a remake, a remaster would be if it was just ported to switch with an upres to make it hd, from the trailer it looks completely remade from the ground up with all new visuals and new animations for some characters. I also saw some small script changes, and even a new toad design in glitzville that wasnt in the og
It’s a remake 100%
“It’s like an entire character....created. from. LOOPHOLESSSS.” That got a laugh out of me! But it’s entirely true! An arbitrary rule that exists for no reasonnnnnnn
I mean, that’s ironically entirely what Bobby is, just a metaphors about the state of Paper Mario. He’s a “partner,” just nothing to make him stand out, but that’s because he’s meant to be a generic bob-omb, but also because the creators can’t have named characters like that, so he has a false name. It’s so loopholey that it’s actually impressive. Not a good thing overall, but impressive
Honestly he was right but even the story made nods at it with King Olly saying “every toad is the same they’re not unique”
My least favorite thing in the game is what happened to bobby, and its 100% because he's a bomb-omb. the literal representation that Nintendo refuses to treat anything other than Mario as characters (if that), and that bobby was 100% a loophole. he couldn't be aloud to continue existing.
I just realized, it happens twice too....
@@The_Holy_Wooomy anyone have a link to what this explicit rule is? It's so weird that they can have names it sounds almost fake
@@KingBowserVlog basically characters can’t look unique or have names unless they are completely original, The creators of origami king slightly got past the rule by making Bobby his nickname its even a gag for awhile, Olivia keeps on calling him different names and Bobby keeps on saying “please Miss, my names Bob-omb!”
My main question is "Why were they allowed to create new races for Odyssey, but not Paper Mario?"
I guess its because Paper Mario is developed by Inteligent Systems, which isn't owned by Nintendo.
Mario & Luigi did too! BEAN PEOPLE
That’s exactly what I’m saying ( •᷄ὤ•᷅)
@@PredictableEnigma yea but paper jam
@Eric Lee sadly this shows my irritation the most 😂
I used to rewatch this review over, and over, and over again. Just to get some TTYD itch. I'm so happy we now get TTYD and others get to experience its beauty. AND WE GET MORE PAPER MARIO ARLO VIDEOS YAY
agreed i haven’t played ttyd yet but i played 64 when i was a kid and always wanted to play a game with the same rpg mechanics luckily i played bug fables and boycotted origomi king for it so i’m excited to play ttyd myself its the sequel to 64 i’ve been waiting for hopefully with an added boss rush mode or luigi and the magic compus for the postgame
I played both bug fables and origami king in 2020. I felt I enjoyed them both equally for different reasons and would replay both. Going back to play origami king didn’t last longer than an hour for me. I’ve beaten bug fables three times now. To add insult to injury, Nintendo emailed me my top three played switch games of 2020, my number one was bug fables. I had more fun playing an indie developers version of paper mario rather than the actual new paper mario. If they don’t want it to be an rpg, they should make a new super mario rpg.
We not only are we getting a remake, but in my opinion I would love Paper Mario to go the real time battle route for their next game, the macho bosses battles have a place in the series and would love to see that for both the little enemies and bosses. This little change can impact the franchise in a positive light for all fans of this franchise
@@derple8524yea i’m excited for the mario rpg remake and will be playing it on christmas and am even more excited to play the ttyd remake yes it’s real! as i never got to play ttyd so im very excited about it
"A monument to stubbornness" is the PERFECT description of the ring system.
when you are going to upload your next video
I dig your videos. Subscribed.
@@PriceAintRight Hey, thanks man! Not used to being spotted outside my own videos haha
To me, the ring system also seems like a very smug move. It was like the devs were thinking “Fine, you want a turn-based battle system? Alright, monkey paw wish granted.”
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
00:40 Spoilers(?) + This is gonna be harsh.
02:43 Good stuff: Graphics.
04:47 Good stuff: The world/map.
07:22 Good stuff: Cinematic.
08:03 Good stuff: Action sequences.
08:33 Good stuff: Charming and witty personality.
09:04 Good stuff: Game feel + Music + Jagged Graphics.
10:53 Good stuff: Collectibles.
11:42 Good stuff: Story and characters.
14:50 Good stuff: Humour.
15:57 Good stuff: Drama (but lack of immersion).
16:56 Creative limitations the developers bump against.
24:35 Lack of immersion.
28:18 Pseudo-TTYD elements.
32:49 Color Splash retrospective.
34:58 Ring System: Intro.
37:00 Ring System: Narrative, strategy and difficulty.
42:40 Ring System: Non-rewarding and skippable. Gimmick stubbornness.
48:27 Ring System: Incentives and balance.
53:31 Too convoluted bosses.
59:16 The combat makes the game unenjoyable.
1:00:59 The Paper Macho guys, a combat alternative.
1:03:13 Ring System shoehorning.
1:05:05 Confetti and the 1000 fold arms.
1:06:51 Ego.
1:08:50 Little tweaks that could have fixed the combat.
1:10:38 Bad game design in the name of "new" and clinging to the past.
1:13:46 Gimmicks in the way of good game design.
1:16:22 Failed potential and a lightning rod for Nintendo's problems.
1:20:46 Conclussion.
ARLO PIN THIS PLEASE!
The fact that Arlo said that he would put Paper Mario The Origami King in the same league as Pokémon Sword and Shield actively pisses me off. Pokémon Sword/Shield were unfinished games rushed out for the holidays. The Origami King is a game with a lot of care and attention in mind. Yes, that infamous interview with the producer is a load of BS and I hate Tanabe for saying that. "It's impossible to create new Mario characters." Bruh. We have new characters out the WAHOO! in Mario Odyssey! That response is not acceptable!
53:56 I dunno try turning off the game see if that works!
Thank yiu
Watched this again. Always therapeutic when you really dig into the frustrations we share on Paper Mario. This was a fantastic video.
Same, I've watched this so many times over the years, even now. Very therapeutic for a gamer like me that wants the best for this Franchise
I personally loved the ring puzzles for the bosses. I liked figuring out a puzzle to beat the boss. I hated it for the small enemies; It felt so tedious to do that over and over. I very rarely used the toads so I got frustrated a lot doing it with small enemies. The rest of the game I loved. I loved the paper world and I loved the origami theme. I've never played any of the other paper Mario games so I have nothing to compare it to. It was one of the first video games I ever finished though, so that felt good.
yea it’s a lot easier to enjoy the new games when you haven’t played the originals so as much as i am a hardcore classic fan i’m not going to bash you for it like certain other fans would i would definitely try out the ttyd remake that’s being remade for us older fans so you could see why us old fans actively compare them to the new ones so i’m glad you enjoyed it it’s just not what most of us wanted aka something more akin to ttyd
while i doubt anyone will really accept this point, if they wanted paper mario to be an "action adventure game" then super paper mario did a lot better than the games after it.
I didn’t particularly care for SPM, but I have to agree with you. The combat philosophy of Super combined with the interconnected world of OK seems like it would’ve been a much better idea if they insist on not having an RPG.
@@kratal122 it would be. though that thought leaves me wondering if we could still have a "party" of sorts like what spm had?
I thought super paper Mario was great except for 2-3 that was in my opinion the worse level in any game I ever played lol
@@guitarheroaddict12 yeah, that grind-a-thon sucked
Super Paper Mario isn't as good as the original and TTYD, but I think it's good in its own way.
2:49 The artstyle and world design
10:54 collectibles
11:42 the story
13:18 the character
16:58 creativity (restrictions)
(I think,it is interesting and frustrating to see, that there are (concept) art designs for the characters: ruclips.net/video/GkQhm8mcC8o/видео.html)
29:40 the partner
32:55 the battles
53:32 boss battles
1:00:59: paper macho guys
1:03:13 first conclusion
1:08:34 xp-system
1:11:37 paper mario between RPG and new stuff + missing balancing and conclusion
The fact that this comment is so underrated >w
1:17:42 Angry Arlo
i agree with you it’s insulting that they gave the character concept art and didn’t even use any of them because they didn’t want to the character concept artwork made the characters look unique like the old games and it’s like a slap in the face from the developers because they didn’t use any of the concept art even though that’s what old fans like me wanted making characters unique and interesting and adding something to a character is something even fans can do
41:50 Sums it up. Combat basically has two ways its gonna go: It's either going to be just a mediocre puzzle, or it's going to be a slow boring chore where you pick off enemies one by one. There's nothing else.
Originally the paper esthetic came from the idea that the story was well... a story. Told from a book. I think that was really cool and original. The paper esthetiv didn't change how the world worked as it was mostly just how it was presented to us. Now the esthetic is just how their world is and it doesn't feel real anymore or interesting.
This. Thank you.
That said, they did lean into the “character and world are paper” as mechanics a *little* bit in The Thousand Year Door. E.g. turning into a paper plane, rotating to fit through slots etc.
I don’t mind leaning into the paper aesthetic for mechanics. But those other limitations - not being “allowed” to be an RPG, not being allowed to create original characters - those suck total balls.
@@liamcullen3035 No they didn't in TTYD and SPM. TTYD and SPM still treat the world and characters normal and taking place in the mainline Mario universe like Paper Mario 64. There's curses of course, but the curses proves my point even further because Mario has to be cursed in order to fold his body this way. So it's basically black magic to turn Mario's body into different shapes to help him get across other locations. The best comparison of the curses are the Cappy abilities in Super Mario Odyssey. Mario is made of actual flesh in the first three Paper Mario games, not paper. Mario has to be cursed by the legendary heroes in the chests in TTYD and a pixie from SPM in order to gain these abilities that Mario is not used to.
@@liamcullen3035i agree with you i don’t mind the paper asthetic it worked for mario and luigi paper jam mainly because it was still an rpg even if it’s more of a mario and luigi game at least it still felt like paper mario even with the generic characters it was still a great game because at least it was still allowed to be an rpg and i loved it best game of 2016 hands down
Glad I'm not the only one getting sick of the paper jokes shoved down our throats. I preferred it as an art style instead of an endless sea of dad jokes.
Gotta hand it to Arlo - whether he's discussing the good or the bad, he's always passionate. (:
And late. Really, really late.
@@Lipbuzz definitely rather get a considered hour+ from Arlo than the hot take ****show every other channel gives.
Paper Mario the origami king isn’t sticker star 3 it’s color splash 2
And you know what maybe that’s not that bad
"Why have fun when you can have something new?" Summarizes this franchise pretty well.
Summarizes Nintendo pretty well if you ask me
This implied origami king wasn’t fun, when it was. A better summary would be “changing things for the better”
@@No_Sleepee "Summarizes Nintendo pretty well if you ask me"
Pretty sure that games like Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, Splatoon, Fire Emblem Three Houses, etc, destroy your argument. Your taking the state of the Paper Mario and using it to paint a brush over Nintendo, when they've showed time and time again that they DO make well designed games. The current state of Paper Mario is an exception to that rule.
@@juanstrong3695 Uhh... You're wrong for 3/4 similes that you gave. Odyssey is being highly criticized these days, BOTW is mostly hated for being more of a Skyrim rather than a Zelda, and Three Houses ain't different from previous FE titles.
@@jakedematteo2172 Origami King isn't fun, and didn't change anything for the better.
My favorite part of this game is easily the atmosphere and style. Some tracks, particularly the one on Cresent Moon Island, combined with the gorgeous style, give this game a phenomenal atmosphere.
Agreed, but that ring really holds it back from taking it all in sometimes
This video was an absolute evolution in your line delivery. There's not a single line that seems like it's being read from a script in any way shape or form.
He was speaking from the heart ❤️
I found this incredibly cathartic. It voices a lot of exactly how I felt but didn’t know how to verbalize.
Right? He gives a disclaimer about the negativity, and I'm like "Let it all out, man! I wanna massacre!"
Definitely. I was sick and tired of being called "entitled" by some Nintendo rainbow purists that made me out to be the one being unreasonable. There were even some points that I felt Arlo would feel differently on, like Olivia, which I found to be brutally annoying throughout.
@Eric Lee I know this is old, but you’re yelling at a brick wall, man. You won’t change anyone’s mind like this. You’ll just make them mad. If you don’t want to have a genuine discussion, just walk away. It’ll spare you from the headache.
@Eric Lee This comment in old but I would still like to mention that if you reread their comment it says that they thought Arlo would dislike Olivia, like how they did, not Arlo liking Olivia is what would make them like her as well.
I just wanted to correct that since I just feel it's important to interpret correctly as an opinion being ones own vs an opinion forming around what another person says is entirely different--- other than that I do not want to get involved.
that talk about their egos got me.
“When everything feels optional, nothing feels necessary” love that.
I'm gonna use that in regards to motion controls.
@@Vvonter what do you mean?
Between M&L's overly convoluted minigame attacks, SS+CS's disposable attacks and this game, it's so fucking weird how no Mario RPG after TTYD got the basic concepts of choice and customisation right
@@mredbadger
How are M&L‘s minigame attacks „overly convoluted“? These games literally use *less* buttons than TTYD did for its attacks with randomized button combinations.
You wanna know what *WAS* unnecessarily convoluted? DTB’s attempt of going for the „choice and customization“ lane, presumably because some people were bitching about how you can’t customize things in Mario RPGs anymore. Shoehorning customization into these games was a bad choice.
Mario&Luigi „never got choice and customization right“ because that’s not what these games were meant to be about. And rightfully so, they had to differentiate the series from Paper Mario because it was made to coexist with it, so it focused on different things. Letting Paper Mario be the customizable one with Mario&Luigi as a straightforward spectacle kind of RPG only made sense. It’s not M&L‘s fault that there no longer is customization in Mario RPGs when Paper Mario was the one trying to take the straightforward spectacle route for itself for the worst of reasons. But I guess with M&L permanently out of the picture, that doesn’t really matter anymore.
If you don’t see the appeal of these games and their gameplay style, that’s fine, but don’t name them in the same breath as Sticker Star and Color Splash. Even at its most gimmicky, M&L outdid these games by a landslide and didn’t divide its fanbase like these games did. Let’s have some respect for the dead here.
That is surprisingly clever for how simple it is
I beat Shadow Queen because I developed a strategy to survive her powerful attacks and deliver powerful attacks of my own.
I beat Olly by creating a pathway over the right panels, tapping A millions of times, and solving a puzzle.
*That says a lot, doesn’t it?*
For Shadow Queen I just brute force my way through trying to deal as much damage as possible and restoring HP and FP when I got low lmao
That’s still a means of attack that fits your playstyle. It just shows that she can be beat with multiple strategies instead of “solve one puzzle to win.”
I don't know I'm bad at sliding puzzles so I had trouble with Olly's final phase
I beat her in 2 hits cause I had a million Power Rush badges and a max of 5 HP. I enjoyed the game.
One time as a kid, I decided to just go at her with double dip and 20 Zess Dynamites. Good times.
Having an audience in the background feels like another one of those weird bone throwing concessions...it doesn't have the same style and weight that it did in ttyd.
Imagine playing an Assassins Creed game and every NPC’s name is “Assassin” or “Human” or “Viking” or whatever. That’s this game
Assassin's Creed: Pirate
Play as the swashbuckling pirate 'Piraty' and defeat the British empire with 'the ship'. Beware of the bad guys and evil master 'Templalar'
@@linkthepig4219 And everything is made out of water!
To be fair I would laugh for a good 10 mins if the game labeled an important npc "traitor" and played it straight.
@@notaraven Which is gonna be hard if they are basing their foundation on comedy, like when Paper Mario was originally the escape from the comedy and make it a bit more like a fantasy adventure.
@@zjzr08 l meant for the assassins creed concept. I can see it work in a comedy game like paper mario as well just make the characters not understand what traitor means or a kind of meta 4th wall joke.
Arlo: starts off video by trying to get as many people to leave the video as possible
Probably wants to reduce the amount of hate comments he will get which I totally understand
Whether you agree with him or not, you cannot deny the amount of effort this review took.
Opinions can hurt
He’s very genuine lol
I did not leave so that I was allowed to leave a hate comment lol.
"Let the players create their own challenge" you just perfectly summed up pokemon
Shouldn't that be the job of the freaking developer? Or am I thinking crazy here?
@@ultimategamer2669 yeah it should but they make all their games baby easy so people have to do stuff like nuzlockes
@@poacherthenn Honestly nuzlockes are the only viable way to play Pokémon games and they should just make it an official difficulty mode like Normal and Nuzlocke
@@ultimategamer2669 Not necessarily. Or at least, it doesn’t have to be exclusive to them. The developer can give difficulty modes, AND tools like stat distribution for instance to influence difficulty. Heck, the hard mode badge in Bug Fables is basically a “make your own challenge” (sort of), but just less subtle.
@@FedoraKirb Yeah, but difficulty modes are not exactly "CREATE your own challenge." They're more like "CHOOSE your own challenge."
Now, don't get me wrong, I like difficulty modes, but when a game doesn't have a balance in difficulty, a difficulty setting or even a difficulty mode setting then I think it's safe to say that the developer got a bit lazy with the game design. That's all I'm saying.
this is the nicest scathing review I’ve ever seen lol
This entire video feels like Arlo is preemptively having arguments with the youtube comment section, and I love it.
You don't get to be a game reviewer for 3+ years without some arguing in the comments.
That's so true XD
He has to be assiduous or else everything will go wrong with it. Luckily, the game itself and the vicious commenters ensure he will never come back to this game again, which is a relief for him. He can go back to commenting on unambiguously good games.
in fact, some comments that noticely haven't watched the entire thing, repeat "arguments" that arlo thinks about and respond to in the video
I personally have found that when you're arguing with people who aren't your friends or loved ones, don't even give them a chance to talk. Hit every argument they could possibly have before they say anything, especially in public. That is, if it's on a subject that matters (morals, important politics like border control, etc.). Video games are different, but that's what Arlos doing, and it works well because it shows you who didnt watch the whole video and therefore whose opinions are somewhat invalidated due to ignorance. Loves ones are of course different.
You want meaningful turn-based combat? FINE! Have some combat based around turning.
...Huh? Of course I understood the feedback. You're fired!
That almost sounds like it was exactly what happened.
Holy shit, I didn't notice that before now XD
Much as I enjoy the ring based battles, this comment had me dying 🤣 Well done, good sir!
Origami King is the quintessential example of why Nintendo isnt dominating the industry as they should. Cause it signifies their greatest weakness: the overly ambitious nature of their sense of creativity, their over indulgence to create something "new". With all their quality, all their skills in game development, Nintendo seems to lack the FOCUS necessary to deliver on that quality in full. They have this irrational tendency to not want to be placed within the "box" of a genre. So much so they will try and avoid that fate no matter the costs. It irritates me to no end why they do this.
In a way, they do dominate the industry. By being completely different from Playstation/Xbox/PC, they are leading their own market (and they are alone in this market). With all their flaws, I don't want to think about Video Game industry without Nintendo. So yeah, long live to them, despite their flaws.
@Mad Yes but they should still get the brunt of the backlash they do for things like scamming people with that joy con drift thing. Yet they win those lawsuits cause they got the money to do it. I will love their games til I'm dead and buried but their business practices can be straight up scummy sometimes.
@@MadX8i agree with you i can’t imagine not having nintendo around at least their games and icon at least but that’s about it everything else other industries are doing better than nintendo even sega is by letting people make fan games of peoples favorite game series sonic exe comes up instantly but nintendo takes those games down instantly because they don’t want them making things that they don’t want and the same goes with listening to feedback other companies are making the online experience great for other companies but nintendo just forces you to pay 50 dollars for games that they slowly drip feed you that’s just utterly scummish no offense of course but the fact that other companies give you access to the whole library of their games with little to no money required is just so much better it’s sad really they are literally doing what nintendo doesn’t and it’s part of the reason why they’re some of the worst companies in the industry
The problem with this argument is that the branch who works on Paper Mario are gigantic fucking crybabies who refuses to make interesting new characters because "Nintendo is forcing us to" like shut the fuck up, the Nintendo Movie is proof that you are one hell of a sad excuse of a game developer whos using Nintendo's Character direction as a shield for criticism tucked in a corner while they're sucking their thumb with the other hand
Well, when it comes to paper mario anyways
One thing that I like about Arlo's reviews is that Arlo never lets his anger get in the way.
It's very easy to give in to your frustration and throw blasphemies at whatever frustrates you, like many poeple do, but Arlo analyses what makes him frustrated. He thinks of potential solutions, and he tries to think of justifications from all sides of the argument.
Within Paper Mario: The Origami King, he doesn't see a personal insult, but wasted potential. And I respect him for that.
Starts video: "uhhhhh why is this review the length of a movie."
Gets to the end: "wait I watched the whole thing?"
Great video Arlo!
I thought the same xD
Double speed is necessary for this one
:sees a long video:
->My usual reaction in the afternoon: No problem, let's listen to him while sketching something. o/
->My usual reaction in the evening: Welp, FFXIV will be muted for an hour.
This game might as well be called Paper Mario: The Compromise. Nearly every aspect of its design refuses to commit fully one way or the other. It’s “having your cake and eating it too.”
The battle system is a perfect example. It feels like the developers were forced to include turn based combat but really didn’t want to, so they made all these little failsafes to essentially make it irrelevant.
It sucks, I wanted to love this game so badly. So much of it is really good, but these baffling game design choices just keep me from enjoying it.
Yeah "Compromise" was the word I came away with too.
Very well said. It’s as if they threw partners in and removed fully consumable attacks and stuff simply so that they could say, “We heard your thoughts on what you want from Paper Mario and included them while also doing our own new stuff with the systems,” and in doing so they missed the essence of what we felt actually made them great, and even worse, what made them worthwhile inclusions in the first place.
ever notice how the puzzles in the dungeons get easier every time you fail them? i get the same feeling from that too. the whole game is too afraid of commitment
Tbh, or at least for me, I was alright with the battle system not being perfectly done. Throughout my playthrough I mostly focused on the places I visited, what my next task was and what I would have to do to get to it, the battling was there as a side thing like a little mini game to kind of keep you engaged and just change things up while you were going towards your objective. I think those feelings came from the fact that not all battles were necessary except event battles, and if I ever wanted to have a little puzzle thing to kind of change things up it was an option. Then there were event battles where it felt alright to fight em because it felt necessary and fun enough to go along with
Overall, the way I look at it at least, is that the game focuses more on the locations you visit and the beauty of those set pieces instead of the battling and since, imo at least, it was done well I feel like the battling not being so good was alright cuz my enjoyment of the game never came from battling, and when I battled it felt alright because it was just a way to kind of get my mind working and just a little change of pace.
Ninjdraw I think it’s valid if that’s your experience with it, but your points are exactly why I think it’s an issue. The big new mechanic in TOK is it’s combat, and what does it say about the game if it can be largely ignored by the player? Either make it important, or get rid of it.
I don’t mean to invalidate what you’re saying, because my play through of the game was largely similar - just trying to ignore battles as often as possible. For both of us, the experience was better by interacting as little as possible with what is arguably the game’s central mechanic.
It's crazy that they feel like they have to re-invent the wheel EVERY TIME when it comes to the combat. And that's the exact reason the fan base is split, OF COURSE some people prefer one while others prefer another, that's inevitable, they're creating their own problems and the more they do it the harder it will be to please everybody.
yea i agree this can be applied to most other series that have split fanbases sonic and atelier to name a few the main reasons why they are as split as they are now is because they switched up the gameplay from the original game as if they kept doing the same gameplay in sonic atelier and paper mario these 3 series wouldn’t be split nearly as much as they are today because as you said before only certain gameplay styles are preferable in certain franchises and if you switch up the gameplay even once it’s going to split the fanbase completely in the end
You're a great writer, you manage to express complex ideas in a very clear way.
Even when I like this game a lot, I was really annoyed to hear about the core developers not listening to fans at all
Origami King was my first Paper Mario game, and I enjoyed the heck out of it, so much so that I nearly played it again
Me personally, i think it could be Nintendo gimping them.
@Raistlin Majere More like they shot themselves in the foot. I apologize for going overboard but the blame is mostly Intelligent Systems and Tanabe. It’s their fault for not making an actual RPG Paper Mario game like The Thousand-Year Door with the gameplay it’s supposed to have. Since Intelligent Systems is the main developer of Paper Mario, Nintendo doesn’t care what gameplay they go with as long as they think it’s good. The lack of story and lack of new characters can be mostly blamed on Nintendo but it’s also Tanabe’s fault for not including already existing characters that rarely get an appearance like ones from the Super Mario Land series, Mario 64, Mario Sunshine, Mario Galaxy 1-2, etc. There’s so much potential to include these characters even if they can’t make new ones, Miyamoto isn’t around to say no to the Mario characters he didn’t create to be in the game. Sorry for making this long.
@@thedorklord1029 only because it was your first
@@thedorklord1029 You nearly played it again? That isn't the most enthusiastic thing to hear lol. Most good rpgs, or even adventure games, have tons of replayablilty. If you loved it so much that it *almost* made you touch it again, I suggest dipping your feet into other franchises and coming back.
Not saying that every good game has to have tons of replayablilty (Octopath is really good but I would never touch it again because of the nature of it) but I find games like Breath of the Wild, Fire Emblem Three Houses, and The Last of Us making me want to play them multiple times. Not almost replay them, but actively go out to do so
It's just so bizarre to me how there's an explicit rule of races not being able to vary too much in design. What a weird limitation
Must. Protect. Brand. Identity. At. All. Costs.
@@evanseifert8858 but then why did they let them even make thousand or super in the first place? I don’t get it
@@dragonfruit8830 Because the rule didn’t start existing until the later games
I think Miyamoto has actually developed a mental disorder. Like obsessive kids who just want to look at trains, he's got that with Kinopio. NO OTHER CHARACTERS JUST KINOPIO. SO MANY.
either way it's clear the people working on these games, other than the writers, are not enjoying themselves.
@@KairuHakubi i love miyamoto we all do but I think it’s time to accept that he should retire, he’s refusing to pass the torch to the others and his insight and influence is starting to negatively impact a lot of the projects he closely associates most infamously is his stubbornness on the creative limitations in the mario series because he believes after the success of the first official Mario brothers he doesn’t think the series needs creativity and imagination to accomplish because its Mario he’ll always sell.
I came back to watch again after the TTYD announcement so i can appreciate what we're getting all the more.
Arlo, you need more videos of these lengths. You make the boring/busy works of my job something I look forward to because I can think "I CAN LISTEN TO ARLO WHILE I DO THIS TASK!!!"
One thing that bugs me that he didn't touch on is that even if you like this games battle system, it doesn't matter because the next game they'll throw it all away to do something different.
Facts
This actually might be my least favorite aspect of modern paper mario, stick to something so you can flesh it out at least. But Tanabe loves change for the sake of change, so that's not gonna happen.
Man, don't hate on the upcoming cube battle system. This time, you've got to manipulate the cardboard battlefield like Rubik's Cube to line up enemies!
Change for the sake of change is the ideology of a cancer cell.
Yeah. Look at the first two games. TTYD only expanded on the original. It didn't drastically change it for no particular reason.
*"When everything is optional... nothing feels necessary" - Arlo 2020*
Welcome to most RPGs.
Welcome to breath of the wild I guess.
I wanted to enjoy BotW so much :(
@@AutisticGaming2004 Breath of the Wild handled it better in my opinion as while many things were optional, the game had its fair share of challenge on its own, the optional elements along the way served to make your time more comfortable if you went after them.
New battle and field abilities? Divine beasts.
Better Armor and Weapons? Squeeze through nooks and crannies.
Big Map to explore? Find shrines and towers for both spirit orbs to improve health and stamina, but also new warp points.
The optional content flows into each other to mitigate the challenge. It isn't perfect, but it's my example for optional content done right in my opinion.
@@donnelwaddledee965 Yeah, the difference between this and BoTW is that BoTW made you *want* to do things.
There is absolutely no incentive to battling. I legit skipped almost every non boss battle in the game due my exhaustion of the ring and it changed NOTHING. You can find coins and confetti everywhere so why do I need to bang my head against a wall because of the stupid rings? Whoever came up with the ring idea needs to be fired effective immediately.
I mean if I never battled I wouldn’t have been able to afford weapons, accessories, collectibles, etc. And no they shouldn’t be fired because you didn’t like the combat system. They didn’t want to make an rpg which is fine and they tried something new.
@@hamidmehrdad5805 if you avoided battles you wouldnt need the cash to spend on items
Because you arent battling as much
@@IamMullet Touché.
@@hamidmehrdad5805 Obviously it's not fine, especially when they incorporate RPG elements from former games in the series, but leave out core RPG elements like an exp system that make RPGs what they are. The result is this half-assed mess of a game where you can just skip the battles and still complete it somehow... it's absolutely dysfunctional
@@hamidmehrdad5805 why is it fine to not want to make an RPG?
This video stands the test of time and can be enjoyed again and again Arlo
agreed luckily we can watch it as much as we want
"Why have fun when you can have something NEW?"
Man. What an accurate summary of Nintendo's design philosophy in general.
For better and for worse
@mumumelodies, I mean, wouldn't that imply that they never focus on fun and good design? Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, and Three House all disprove what you said.
@@juanstrong3695 Breath of the Wild, Mario Odyssey, and Three Houses were also all iterative works. They built off things that have worked in the past and improved on them. Arguably BotW was the most experimental of them but even that pulled a LOT of inspiration from existing open world games, and some of the building blocks the very first Zelda put out. Origami King and it's ring system is entirely new, and entirely unneeded. It's 100% gimmick with none of the fun. Sure, some games can be entirely innovative and prosper for it. The indie market is great for this (Look at Super Hot for a great example) but Origami King wasn't good, and deserves to be called out on it. Nintendo is stubbornly digging in their heels and refusing to make something that everyone wants to instead force newness into a series that got its start being INCREDIBLY polished, iterative works in the RPG genre.
@@ArkThePieKing I don't think you got what I was saying. The original poster said that Nintendo's entire design philopsophy, is to focus on newness rather than fun. Obviously they're implying that's a bad thing, because games should be fun. However, my point is that I'm counter arguing them, saying that Nintendo often focuses on games centered around newness *and* fun (Mario Odyssey with Cappy, Breath of the Wild being the first open world Zelda game, and Three Houses). Paper Mario happens to be one of those Nintendo franchises that happens to be stuck in a rut, but I certainly don't think it's fair to use that to paint a brush over all Nintendo games, especially when Nintendo has shown time and time again that they do focus on fun. Get what I'm saying?
@@juanstrong3695 Ironically I heard the thing most people hate about Fire emblem is the NEW monastery mechanic.
Boy that Bobby character seems interesting. I hope he stays around
Lmao
SPOILER ALERT
Hey, seeing they're made of paper, they could just easily "revive" him by "deglowing" him.
@@zjzr08 Since they're paper, they could just photocopy themselves
Ghost Bobby is eternally around, you know.
Following you. Silently.
@@Mal-go5dl Mario even faxes himself between these Toad laboratories
This is probably my favorite review on your channel, I love how well you articulate your opinion on Origami King and just the state of Paper Mario as a whole. I also love your writing style when it comes to being both critical and more positive of things. 👍🏻
This game is almost too cinematic. I liked the older games where everything was humble and cute and low-key, but overall very impressive.
@Regression Works I noticed that too, like - you're not a movie. You're a game in a subseries that's devolved into Generic Toads and Goombas.
Blue Toad #3 is such an interesting and unique character 👌
What's comically baffling is that Nintendo is willing to butcher the originality of some of the most beloved characters in video game history, yet a small group of creative people will create an entire personality around a character & a fake boss theme. Yes, I'm talking about the Tuba Knight fandom.
@@uberlord983 Tuba Knight ... what? to google!
Disagree. Red toad #5 was a lot more compelling
@Eric Lee r/whoosh
@Eric Lee bruh its a joke LOL
The forest at the beginning feels like the designers fighting the restrictions imposed upon them. I never see anybody mention it, but they make a forest full of never-before-seen tree people who care deeply about 'O'l Grandsappy' who is old, (something I could have sworn was one of the restrictions- no ages), but at the end of the day it's okay because "trees" is filed under 'locations" not "characters."
I immediately noticed that as well.
Probably one of the more honestly creative aspects of the game.
Sort of gives off the “hills with eyes” vibe from the first couple of games.
You can definitely tell the developers are really pushing their boundaries with the game. Constantly finding ways to skirt around the ludicrous limitations set in place by their superiors.
The hidden coffee shops are my favorite examples of world building in any game ever, they're so charming and fun
Not even the best world building in a Mario game
My opinion is, if you're not gonna make an RPG, don't add the turn-based battles. If Paper Mario wanted to go full adventure-puzzle game, go all-in. Don't give us these RPG half-measures
i agree!
the combat would way less annoying that way
@@chibi3593 yea i agree with you on that even though i do prefer paper mario being an rpg doing this weird rpg-action adventure type genre doesn’t really work
"An ego was this game's biggest enemy".
Given what Tanabe said about "listening" to feedback, you couldn't have hit the nail harder even if you tried.
Yup
The ego of the man rivels other company by himself.
I thought it was universally agreed apond that it was Miyamoto not allowing to be anything but Toads or something
@@TheStarBot Actually not really because yes even though Miyamoto wanted toads to be in Paper Mario during Sticker Star’s development, it wasn’t like he was in charge of Intelligent Systems and he gave Tanabe a choice to know if the game can have all toads or not. Miyamoto didn’t say “do as I say or you are fired” or something like that but gave Tanabe a choice. Even if he doesn’t like story in Mario games, he doesn’t care if Mario games like the Paper Mario or Mario and Luigi games have story because they are second party and not first party is what Miyamoto mostly works on. This proves that Tanabe does whatever Miyamoto says like he’s trying to be like him when he can do things without him. It’s like Tanabe doesn’t know what a “choice” or “option” is. Keep in mind a creator of something doesn’t have full control of everything as long as it is credited to them for certain things they created.
@@TheStarBot Miyamoto just said "characters from the Mario world" which was more than Toads, which really are just the caricature "good species" here when Koopas, Goombas and Boos are at least as "good" as them in the RPGs (with varying types of personality).
@@zjzr08 Excuse my ignorance but can you please elaborate?
"I can't help but feel like they were just...throwing us a bone with this sappy stuff?" 16:32
ha.
that is the funny editor saying haha bone go mrrrr
I didn't notice that at first 😂 Kane is the best
hehehe
This game was the fastest i put a paper mario down, after the first boss i was like yeah ive had enough. Nintendo just hates paper mario at this point
1:03:46 Best rant of the entire review! That frustrated and depleted gasp of exhaustion... GOLDEN.
"i'm not the sharpest taco on the christmas tree" 42:23 i'm going to start saying that
I cried laughing over that lol
Same tho
I just realized that the Ring is literally *turn-based* combat
Haaaaah
What have you brought apon this cursed land
nmhbj
...That was me suddenly banging my head once on the keyboard!
(LOL!)
when I play as Loran in Dynasty Warrior Gundam the action becomes Turn A -based combat
Wh--
It--
...
Oh my god
watching this now? feels so good
Your description of the issue with the boss fights was spot on. I mainly only had that issue with the Vellumentals for some reason (except the turtle), but every time I fought one, I had to shut the game down for a few days out of frustration. They probably would have been more intuitive for me if they had removed the regular attacks and said "Hey, you can only use these special moves in these fights, that's what we want you to do." I kept trying to fight them with my regular moves as if they were regular video game bosses and thinking that the special moves were just for extra damage or something, which dragged the fights out 800 times longer. I thought the ring was the puzzle for those fights, but it's really both the ring AND the specific sequence of special moves they want you to do. And at that point, with the way they executed it, it felt like an angry friend watching you play a game, and yelling "JUST LET ME DO IT" and trying to snatch the controller away from you because you aren't playing the game the way they want. Again, all tying back to ego.
Origami King was good...had some amazing, memorable moments...it just felt like it was caught between too many gameplay styles
totally agree
.
Also, for me, these same touching moments were kinda ruined since every single NPC in this game is a generic Toad or a generic enemy. ESPECIALLY... (spoiler alert)
... Olivia and Olly's creator.
@@mrjohnful well, toads are like human in that universe so it kinda makes sense
17:00 "enough praise it's all downhill from here"
LOL we got an hour and 6 minutes left and I'm ready to hear it all!!!
It’s what most of us came here for!
Arlo:I'm boutta end this man's whole career.
Lmao i loved that part
I mean jeez, he lasted a full 17 mins. And that was 17 mins not dipping into the story. The madman.
@@notaraven true. I wouldnt have been positive for that long haha
Nintendo's so damn stingy with their creativity. I don't think they see themselves as creating art, they see themselves as manufacturing a product.
I know this review is definitely mixed, but I'm still excited for the Thousand Year Door remake next year (hopefully sooner rather than later)
“I’m playing a game in a series that was creatively satisfying, and now it’s not”
That right there sums up how I feel about Pokémon nowadays. Which is bittersweet imo
It's so sad. Nintendo has effectively kneecapped 2 great series.
And so many more if you factor in their great ideas like, "Hey see this beloved series that ended on a mildly underwhelming or even an amazing title? Time to say bye-bye!"
:^)
Cap. Pokémon was always trash. We were just too young to see it.
The problem with pokemon can always be traced back to the deadlines set on them by ever other aspect of the pokemon universe. If the new games take too long to make, the anime writers will have to try splitting their forces to continue the current series while also having a new one ready, the tcg will fall off a bit because they can only release so many sets before it gets too many and people just stop. Merchandise will fall off because they probably had plans for merch for the new games but they have to sit on those for a while, which will lose the company money. All of these issues will lose gamefreak TONS of money, so they have to rush through and shit out a game thats maybe 2/3 complete at MOST. Sw/Sh is like, the 5th best selling switch game despite being one of the lowest quality. They're making loads of money from unfinished garbage so they'll continue on doing just that.
Even as someone who enjoyed gen 8, its the lowest point the series has been to. They just lack effort and polish. Laughably easy, boring and nearly nonexistent story, low quality animations and just a total lack of genuine care. This problem will persist for the foreseeable future because everything the series does is on a damn time limit! Pokemon is the highest grossing media franchise of ALL TIME. Surely it can't be that hard for them to hire more staff. Its not a complete fix but a bigger team will be able to accomplish more in the narrow tome constraints they're given
@@flamingythermit314 One thing you are missing is that the Pokémon games make them the least amount of money. They are just a means to push other merchandise. If they didn't have to make the games, they probably wouldn't. The game sales are and have always been lackluster compared to merch, anime, and especially the TCG (Seriously, the TCG makes them stupid money.)
Nintendo is so innovative but stubborn at the same time. Cool peripherals, interesting ideas, but then they refuse to just have an online experience that makes sense.
This aged so poorly goddamn
@@iodine_sulfur because they updated their online.
I havent found anything noteworthy with nintendos online service of late tho they did finally give super Mario party more online support
@Gigawatt no?
@@jakedematteo2172 the online didnt get better btw
Can't wait for the TTYD remake version review
As long as it isn't THIS long
I hope it's 2 hours long, with deleted scenes and Alternate-universe Arlo commentary bonus features
This is one of the best reviews ive ever heard in my life
The fact that there are two different schools of thought floating around in Nintendo is very bizarre. They will reinvent Zelda to more closely resemble the original NES Zelda to address harsh criticism that SS got for being too dumbed down and formulaic (regardless of it getting stellar reviews at the time of release), but then Paper Mario cannot get the same treatment by taking inspiration from the original games. Why?
Because the Zelda team is oddly more receptive to feedback. Remember we got TP because of how harshly (and dumbly) people shit talked WW's visual design, which was also a pivot from MM for being too dark.
Because one has Tanabe in charge and the other doesn't.
I'm sorry. I know Arlo said he didn't want to point fingers, but too much of it points to it being Tanabe. We know It's not a Mario only issue because Odyssey had tons of unique characters and was a return to form of an old style we loved, just like Zelda did with BOTW.
We know it's probably not really a Miyamoto issue because he has little to do with game development these days and although he had little to no role in Odyssey, he was asked for advice at times and thus was okay with it's changes (Also the fact that he's okay with the Zelda changes which is also a series he's not been shy about removing stuff he happens dislikes)
That only leaves Tanabe. He's been the main guy in charge of this series since Sticker Star.
The former is developed by Nintendo EPD while the latter is developed by Intelligent Systems.
@@DoctorMinjinx But then there's Luigi's Mansion 3, in which Tanabe was also a producer, there was an interview in which he (or someone in the team behind LM3) said that they looked for opinions in forums about Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon, and took some of the feedback to heart (resulting in the equivalent of portrait ghosts from LM1).
This doesn't mean necessarily that Tanabe is not just being weird about how he handles Paper Mario, but it could mean that either the team as a whole really doesn't want to make Paper Mario like the older titles again, or someone higher up is placing restrictions on Mario games, possibly to increase the brand's recognition (So that when people think Mario, they think [Mario, Peach, Goomba, Bowser] instead of [Geno, Fawful, Vivian, Dimentio]).
@@MimoAnimations That's true. Tanabe did have a big role in LM3.
It’s a Zelda game, set in the Mario universe, with a paper aesthetic, that also has a turn-based puzzle combat system.
I had some fun with the game but it’s just... weird. I don’t know if I’ve ever played a game with such a confused identity, lack of direction, and inconsistent design philosophy. When your game has three combat systems that are randomly interspersed, you know something’s gone terribly wrong.
A Zelda game how? Not that I've played Origami King, but the Zelda franchise generally has much different puzzles.
Ive never had any interest in the series. But this comment makes me want to try Origami King. Good job lol
@@TheAlibabatree It’s like that but not the good parts of each lol
I'm taking it you've never played a Sonic game then?
This game features literal dungeons, with puzzles. The puzzles aren't really hard, but it's a lot of fun!
I think I've watched this 4 times now. Love your stuff Arlo.
Origami King was my first ever Paper Mario experience and I absolutely loved it. It gave me everything I want from a video game. Rich world, funny dialog, loveble characters, well written story, creativite design, easy to understand yet challenging battle format and so much more.
I don't really get the criticism about it being hard to care for paper and origami. When everything is paper, then a stapler is a BIG threat. If I was made of paper, I'd be terrified. When you actually immerse into the world as and for what it is, the stakes are high. But we can disagree on that.
Great for you! Give Arlo the middle finger because he’s just petty little bitch.
Yeah, I feel like a lot of his personal little hang ups on the series itself is really keeping him from enjoying a game worth enjoying and keeping him from judging the game properly. I haven't yet finished it, but from what I played so far, it's not hard at all to be able to suspend disbelief and let yourself be... WRAPPED UP (ba dum tss) in the world, story, characters, and events of the game. This just feels like nitpicking the details to a silly, fun killing degree. Almost as if he's trying to convince himself and trying REALLY hard not to like this game. It's kinda sad really... :/
@@DSmith3279 his hangup with the immersion in the world was just one of many, many complaints on the game though. I don't think you can say he's "trying hard not to like the game" just from one complaint that may or may not be misplaced