Dragon Ball’s INSANE Power Creep
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- Опубликовано: 21 янв 2024
- Dragon Ball’s INSANE Power Creep
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My Twitter~ / tylearn_
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Tournament of power intro ost: PokeMixer92 and 94 Stones and Zenta & Akira Kushida
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Shoutouts to Jordan for editing~ x.com/jordansammaa?s=21
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Now initially Dragon Balls power creep wasn't so bad with Goku only surpassing Roshi by over 2x by the end of the 23rd budokai. In dragon ball z it definitely got a lot more noticeable with the earthlings training on kami's lookout, surpassing the likes of raditz who clowned on goku an arc prior, and even in the android saga we have all the z fighters preparing for threats stronger than mecha frieza and piccolo ever says they aren't sure of themselves, don't bother showing up. Despite this the earthlings and even base gohan show up, meaning they should be prepared at least for threats above mecha frieza. This would upscale Gokus new base in the android saga above his namek self since Mecha Frieza was confident he could take on Goku, and Goku obviously would grow even stronger and master the super saiyan grades. Then in the Buu Saga, its implied Shin is sub Pui Pui- who Vegeta negs in base. This is important since Shin is not only above Piccolo who should be right behind Cell games Vegeta and Trunks, And there's a statement of Shin being equal to Cell Games Goku, meaning Gokus current base would now surpass his previously established full power. Now this all seems insane but in my opinion Dragon Balls power creep up to this point has been plenty justified. Them training for threats beyond mecha frieza makes sense, and goku surpassing his full power after training dead for 7 straight years, doesn't seem unlikely. But let me tell you, after this point, it all falls down from here. And it’s all because of this motherfucker (Beerus) Dragon Ball Super: Super Hero is a 2022 Japanese computer-animated martial arts fantasy/adventure film, directed by Tetsuro Kodama, produced by Toei Animation and written by Dragon Ball series creator Akira Toriyama. It is the twenty-first Dragon Ball feature film overall, the fourth produced with Toriyama's direct involvement, the second to carry the Dragon Ball Super branding, and the first to be produced mainly using 3D animation. The film follows Piccolo and his former student Gohan as they go on a mission to save the world from the newly reformed Red Ribbon Army. It was originally set for release in Japan on April 22, 2022, but was instead released on June 11 due to a cyberattack at Toei Animation. On Beerus' planet, Goku and Vegeta continue their training under Whis, now joined by Broly to help him control his rage. Meanwhile, on Earth, the revived Red Ribbon Army, led by Commander Magenta and Staff Officer Carmine, recruit Dr. Hedo, the grandson of Dr. Gero, to seek revenge against Piccolo and Gohan. Under Hedo's guidance, the Army creates two new androids, Gamma 1 and Gamma 2, to act as superheroes in the public eye. They deploy Gamma 2 to attack Piccolo, who loses the fight. Piccolo follows Gamma 2 back to the Red Ribbon Army's base and discovers that Magenta and Hedo are working on a new android named Cell Max, a new and improved version of Dr. Gero's ultimate weapon, Cell. Hedo kills Magenta to stop this but is too late. Gohan, Piccolo and the Gammas, joined by Goten, Trunks, Android 18 and Krillin, battle Cell Max. Goten and Trunks fuse into Gotenks and, despite botching the Fusion Dance, are able to crack Cell Max's skull, revealing that he does not have a healing factor like the original Cell. Gamma 2 sacrifices himself to injure Cell Max, destroying his left forearm. Combining his "Orange Piccolo" and "Great Namekian" forms, Piccolo battles Cell Max but is ultimately defeated. This causes Gohan's inner rage to finally erupt, unlocking an evolution of his "Ultimate" form called "Gohan Beast". As Piccolo holds Cell Max in place, Gohan kills him by destroying the nucleus in his head with a supercharged Special Beam Cannon. With the battle over, Gamma 1 and Dr. Hedo renounce their evil ways and join the Capsule Corporation. In a post-credits scene, Vegeta defeats Goku by landing a soft hit after both fighters exhausted all of their strength in their sparring match. Vegeta gloats about his victory as an awestruck Broly and Lemo look on, much to Cheelai's irritation.
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#dragonball #goku #dbz 
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NO TEEN GOHAN IS HIM😡
Gohan better of being a scholar 🗣🔥
Yeah a beats@@Dontaskanyquestionslol
Krillin solos
@@Dinojack0301solos the whole of dragon ball z but not super
Stop the CAP
Gohan has the best power cliffing potential because his character concept is literally “can be stronger than goku and vegeta” in the manga/anime, then fusions of them in the games
It’s kinda wild
That's not a character concept, that is a argument a 9 year old would make "I could if I wanted to" "he could if he wanted to" "Gohan could of he wanted to" the philosophy of Dragon Ball is "with enough hard work even a low class can surpass an elite" Gohan does not put in the work yet fans jerk it to his "character"
@@FazeRustyNuts Gohan's potential to surpass Goku has been a running trait since he was introduced, dude. Started with Raditz freaking out at his power level rivaling a charging Piccolo and continues with Gohan's rustiness being a main plot point in Superhero. It's a core part of his character. Plus the hard working low class surpassing an elite isn't the theme of the whole show. Just the Saiyan Saga, and even then only really the early Goku/Vegeta rivalry.
Gohan used to be cool, but they wanna yank the audience around by making him not chase power. That's a writing choice, one that doesn''t benefit a shonen like DB. (not to say that's all that can be done with him) So we get writing that says he consistently slacks, unlike our MCs, but he can just yell and surpass all? Am I supposed to enjoy that?
@@ViltrumiteIsRite99EXACTLY. It's like Saitama but without the fun factor. And it's so cheap and illogical too.
Broly has the highest potential
When battle of gods came and god goku was destroying the macrosm it basically just got stupid considering everyone who so much as hits him in his god absorbed base form can pretty much blink away most shonen anime.
To put that into perspective Bleach got that fucking crazy with the exact same feat at THE END of its run.
bleach isnt even on DBS level as Buuhan was universal + by having an tantrum@@nicholasaugello2534
That destroying the macrocosm crap wasn't in the Original Battle of Gods it was only in DBS, it added absolutely nothing as earth was the closest planet nearby and it wasn't impacted whatsoever yet that's the feat fans use as their God to say Goku solos fiction.
@@FazeRustyNutsthe original Battle of Gods isn't Canon
@@FazeRustyNutsthe God's literally said I was going to destroy the universe
This is the reason why I like jjk’s scaling. It is simple and easy to understand and even villains from earlier on in the series, are still considered powerful much later in the series.
That doesn't make any sense. JJK is very very small compared to Dragon ball or pretty much any other Manga. It is probably going to get wrapped under 300 chapters.
@@Agent-57 I am talking about the scaling in the show not that let me explain it. In JJK the difference in power between villains are linear. Villains from way back in the show are still considered very powerful.
@@Agent-57 You don’t have to do major calculation to understand, which JJK character is stronger. You can just see what the story is giving you, and compare their best showings in strength. That’s the best way I can describe it.
Not really. Current Itadori would destroy Mahito like Gojo folded Jogo.
And we never had many villains. There is Kenjaku, Sukuna and Mahito. @@elviraweekes3906
@@elviraweekes3906literally super so idk whatnur on. Beerus to this day same with whis are still the strongest.
that one tiny character in the Tournement of Power solos DBZ-Goku Black saga
Nah
That’s a bit of a stretch it’s not THAT bad😂
@@jlit5215oh it’s definitely that bad…
@@themightofgeburah5882 I mean mainly the Goku black saga part, I’m well aware comparing dbz characters and dbs characters gets very dumb
Base Kale solo's and one shots SSJB Goku and Vegeta from the Goku Black arc.
I've always found it funny how when gogeta was powering up the Kamehameha against broly and the ground was cracking beneath them,that was also more impressive to me than something like beerus sneezing away a planet
I don't think Berrus ever did sneeze away a planet unless it was somewhere in the mamga I don't remember but he has cut a planet in half using his thumbnail.
He did, I think in RoF@@CerealExperimentsMizuki
That thumbnail is just perfect for the power creep in db in general
best video on power creep ever, people cant accept the power creep is crazy, like no matter how much they train and evolve, they will always find someone stronger... i get that they need to do it for the plot, but cmon, they gotta find some other way to make a good plot instead of only stronger dudes for no reason other than to rival them.
The anime is what is responsible for the massive power cliffing. In the manga the powercliffing is much less. You cannot use the anime and manga portrayals of events interchangeably they are very different.
There is no saiyan beyond god or god ki absorbed into their base in the manga. When using god ki in base they transform into super saiyan god. Super saiyan blue is just turning super saiyan while utilizing god ki in base (super saiyan god).
When goku fights android 17 he only uses ssj 3. So, android 17 is no where near god or blue in the manga. Goku also never has any fights or spars with the other members so there is no krillin pushing back blue gokus kamehameha.
In the manga hit has no pure progress he has normal power then full power. He does not just instantly increase his strength and evolve mid fight and his timeskip starts at 0.1 seconds at the beginning and ends at 0.1 seconds at the end. In the manga goku literally fights hit in super saiyan god and then completely over powers hit in super saiyan blue. There is no blue kaioken until the top.
There are tons of other changes but i wont go through them all here. All i am saying is the power cliffing is far more sutble in the manga and there are not as many massive jumps in power like the anime.
No every power clipping is the same in manga except for kaioken and android 17 Saiyan beyond god does exists in the manga asw it was just never mention with the name but there's a panel of it I can't really send the panel here since it's comments but I can post it my community tab if u wanna see
@S0.Ahnaf_ I know what panel you're talking about, but i do not know the origins of that particular panel because it is not in the manga. However, a single panel with no mention of it ever again is hardly a confirmation that it exists. It also very easily could have been retconned. So, you can believe what you want, but I disagree. I also have re read the manga multiple times, and it is never shown or mentioned a single time. What does exist in the manga is the frequent use of super saiyan god, which becomes redundant if saiyan beyond god exists.
As for the whole manga, it was meant to advertise the anime yes initially that was the case, even though the manga actually came out before the anime started. However, there are too many significant changes to claim that the manga and anime are the same. I only went over a few, but they are way more. Then there is the fact that the manga is what is still ongoing, and it has 2 original arcs and a complete retelling of the superhero movie. So, the manga is now the primary continuity. The anime is the seconday continuity.
I sometimes feel they became obsessed with ever increasing power levels rather than a decent story.
Opm:
@@KONO_DEVON_DANot really opm have pretty good story
False
@@DharcDukemanga opm:
I am pretty sure Toriyama said that he wanted to raise the stakes but didn't really know how besides increasing the power. Don't quote me on that though, I am pretty sure the answer was in one of the interviews so you can go to look for it yourself
Shin is not below Pui Pui lmao. Most top tier fighters can suppress their ki. He was just overestimating Pui Pui. That explains why Pui Pui thought 10x gravity was impressive. Pui Pui is Frieza saga tier at best
Bro shin States that
He can slam frieza lvl threats easily
Yet he was concerned about pui pui
That already puts pui pui
At mecha frieza lvl
Or even higher
Bro these logic leaps are insane. Piccolo saying don't come if you're unsure of yourself doesn't translate to everyone who showed up being above Mecha Frieza. Nor does Shin needing help remotely imply he's sub-PuiPui, etc.
Exactly. The z fighters always show up, it doesn’t matter if the enemy is way stronger or not. With that logic, Everybody in the Cell games would be above Semiperfect cell
It's best to just ignore that conversation about how base Goku became nearly as strong as God Goku after absorbing it. I mean, the show itself basically ignores it.
Initial God Goku = Post-God Base Goku.
No it doesn’t 😂 base goku later on literally gives final form frieza even fight in rof. The same final form frieza before goku that surpassed everything in z.
And in top base goku at the end literally surpasses ssjb at the beginning of top. Base goku and frieza fought tired out jiren who is still stronger than andriod 17 who has infinite stamina meaning he is blue level at all times no weaker
@@fatdurk7934 And yet, Goku, who is now supposed to be stronger than Z Vegito in base, got injured by an ordinary bullet, and was easily caught up to by 17 and Frieza. And Piccolo after he made a wish and Gohan after he got really angry again.
@@myau9912 the same goku that was literally stated by the narrator to have been slacking on training. And u bring up 17 and frieza like they dont have higher potential than goku. Without training those two are ssj level. 17 has infinite stamina and has been stated to be traing for 10 years and was beyond ssj level without training a day in his life.
Yeah it's absolutely insane, it gets even worst because characters who are able to perceive a serious Jiren (albeit who wasn't going all out but still) and MUI Goku, werent even able to perceive *base moro arc Goku* like this shit's wild most current characters coul straight up beat the dog out of infinite Zamasu and i'm not joking. Also yeah the JJK powercliff is *really* starting to come in, especially currently now that these guys have feat against a full power Sukuna
……wasn’t zamasu going to affect every multiverse with his presence? how the freak is anyone doing anything to him
except zeno of course , and maybe zalama and grand priest ?
@@pablogomesoliveira2677 Weeeelll, Goku implies that he can take care of him if he's at full power and we see that ki attacks like Goku Vegeta and Trunks combined blast can affect him as seen with the shockwaves. These three even while weakenned even go as far as enduring this Zamasu's attacks, Goku and Vegeta go on to surpass him through fighting foes that are stated to cliff all past enemies like Jiren or Moro as well as Granolah and Gas. And when i mean surpass they do it multiple times to the point that currently it would'nt be very far fectched to say that they *eclipse* that man in base form
@@pablogomesoliveira2677 both Goku and supreme kai call jiren the strongest Person they've seen at that point
(Meaning jiren surpassed fused zamasu)
nobody has feats against full power sukuna lol.
Am I the only one that thinks early dragon ball z is still pretty underrated in power?
Early dbz as in sayain saga and below caps at solar system anything higher in z stops at low universal high balled. Dbs shatters that limit with no concept of diff
@@kidsofkids718early DBZ from Saiyan saga and Freeza Saga is Planet+ to Star+ while the rest of DBZ from the end of the Cell saga to the Buu Saga is Solar System to Multi Solar System + to Galaxy+.
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki King vegeta alone is planetary+ if you say that namek saga scales to planetary you’d be saying that namek ssj goku>=king vegeta which is blatantly wrong power levels are also a good way to measure strength as king vegeta with only 15,000 is able to output planet busting attacks with the way of a hand if you were to add how much stronger frieza is as he said he has 530,000 you would have to multiply the power king vegeta outputs by 35x which would equal solar system+
@@kidsofkids718 there's different levels to planet level such as Small Planet, Small Planet+, Dwarf Planet, Planetary, Planetary Seperation, Planet+, Large Planetary etc.... and I typed that the Saiyan saga goes up to Planet+ that means that Vegeta, Goku, King Vegeta, even Nappa and Gohan are Planetary to Planet+.
I also mentioned specifically that Freeza saga goes up to Star+ such as Freeza Final Form and Goku Grade 1 SSJ.
Don't know where you got the Planetary Freeza Saga Goku thing, made it up in your head I guess.
Base from Goku in the Freeza saga alone is Multi Planetary+ which the Ginyu Force scales to.
@@kidsofkids718 King Vegeta also has a cannon power level of 10,000 which just so happens to be the same amount needed to destroy a Large Planet as stated by Akira Toryama.
Honestly, I feel like a big part of the problem is that the setting’s power system kinda relies on pure brute strength, meaning that ridiculous power creep is their only way to raise the stakes. Combine that with a story that just keeps going on and on, even after IMHO it started to wear thin way back in Z, and you’ve got a recipe for some nonsense. Add onto _that_ the fact that the series isn’t very good at demonstrating these jumps in power (most of what they do in the ToP looks similar to what they do all throughout Z, for example) and it’s easy to see where confusion would set in as to how strong these characters are actually supposed to be. In fact, I imagine that a lot of these power jumps are just from the writers forgetting their power levels due to that confusion.
The Dragon ball super anime ruined Dragon ball z's reputation in my opinion. From the retcons, contradictions to the absolute dogshit powerscaling. People genuinely think Goku is a man-baby because of this series bro!😭 (DBS Broly is the only saving grace imo)
that's true, I feel like I'm seeing a completely different character with just the name Goku when you go from Final Z and Super
The reason for that is that Goku had completed his journey at the end of Z, progressively going from a disciple in martial arts to a master through the arcs, so there wasn't much to tell with him that wasn't already told
The only solution other than letting the new generation take the spotlight was to make him forget everything he learned and make him the braindead manchild he is in super (I'll never forgive them for the DBS super hero meditation scene 💀)
@@darklogh9715 Thank god that scene was rectified in the manga
I do miss the martial arts master Goku.
That's funny, broly saving grace?
Where broly who nevet fought goes from weaker than ssj vegeta to beerus level in one fight? Which is the biggest example of an insane and downright no sensical powercreep, That's the saving grace?
The film that does nothing new but just brings back bunch of nostalgia characters from Z like bardock, broly ( whos now more boring and besides being a good guy this time isn't a much different character) and Gogeta ( only now he is ssjb! But who cares when we already had ssjb vegito, a blue fusion isnt new. That's the saving grace??
Low standards for what you want then.
In a series like the DB Series powercreep is always gonna get insane especially with time skips and new power systems like the start of DBZ having power levels and later having Transformations/Power Multipliers and DBS having God Ki. Its always just gonna get more crazy the stronger the mcs get
If you referring to tbe YT polls of Teen Gohan vs Cabba, the only reason I voted for Gohan is to annoy the powerscalers when it is very clear Super doesn't care about scaling itself, and the nonstop polls start to feel like circlejerking with the whole "Super vs Z/GT character" everytime.
Great video goat. What about video talking about Naruto power cliffing? It probably ain’t as crazy as DB, but that shit gets crazy in the later half of the series and especially Boruto era. Great video man and I hope you’re doing well.
power creep in shitpuden was crazy
@@roywempor8395It's not shit and is way better than lame ass Mid Piece
@@roywempor8395It's not shit and is way better than lame ass Mid Piece
@@roywempor8395And Hiatus x Hiatus too
shut up lil bro u think everyone in boruto is automatically stronger than madara😂@@billybob4532
Something I'd like to see is a video about Naruto's power creep especially how shit went crazy in Shippuden
It's not that bad like Naruto unlock the kubi power was set up since the very beginning and madara was hyped since the end of part one and the rinnegan and the tailed beast boom were set up in part one as well so everything was fine until kagua it's not perfect buy any means however it's not bad like dragon Ball or boruto and dygo knight made a video about it go watch it
What did the side characters even do to catch up to god Goku
I have NO IDEA but i call it bad writing minus Frieza and Gohan and Broly and Buu and Piccolo all make sense to be absurdly strong , it's atleast kinda explained in the story how and why they got there , i have NO IDEA how tf Krillin and 17 got powerful
Humans truly have potential.
@@nicholasaugello253417 stated he was training and krillen is not on these lvls
@@nicholasaugello2534 Krillin's no way. 17 would have to be a combination of training and Bulma assisted cybernetic enhancements. 17 wouldn't be able to get that powerful from training alone. His cyborg parts unless they're like Cell would be over-taxed if not enhanced. It would be within Bulma's level of genius to achieve that.
@@nicholasaugello2534Krillin mainly stays strong from his Biq and no he wasn’t Blue Goku level. And 17 doesn’t get tired when you think about it his potential can always be crazy high
8:30 THAT folks is one of the main reasons why Frieza trained for 10 whole years...the trauma is still there. 😢
Man I love power creep
nice vid bro
8:04 "This is Dragon Ball. We powercliff every arc mother fucker."
I think one of the most ridiculous power creeps is in boruto, even more now in two blue vortex, that shit is insane. You should make a video on it
At least Not like destroying a fucking whole planet with a ball-sized ki blast 💀
They could do that from the beginning of Z, so I don't know what's so impressive about them being able to do that.@@hozifanabeel4118
not really tbh
@@hozifanabeel4118 well not exactly… but having a rasengan that uses the rotation of the planet for its attack in NARUTO… it’s pretty wild.
@@hozifanabeel4118 but more accurately I was referring to boruto being able to no diff code, who is supposedly stronger than jigen, who no diffed Naruto and sasuke at the same time, who in turn humiliated fused momoshiki with half their chakra and no jutsu, the same momoshiki who is stronger than kaguya who could already destroy dimensions with suns and planets in them… so yeah, the power creep is nuts.
8:00 "And if you guys think the power cliffing is stopping here, this is Dragon Ball, we power cliff every up motherf*cker."
They dropped Saiyan Beyond God after RoF.
Is battle beast vs kaido a good fight?
Actually Frieza got a 3 hour beating from Broly. Remember, after defusing, you can only fuse again after 1 hour.
If you have a chance look at Toriko's creep. Both power and hax. It gets really wild towards the end.
Just got randomly introduced to ur channel via this video but good fuckin shit bro earned a sub for sure :)
Which is crazier dragonballs story power creep or yugiohs card design power creep?
its one of the things where like say whatever you want about jojo's however it did manage to compleatly avoid power creep which is almost unheard of in shonen
I really hate how accurate this is. For any guy or girl out there wanting to make their own series, PLEASE keep this in mind.
At this point we can't say anything but "it is what it is" and roll with it 😭
You gotta do Bleach power creep.
Boruto and Bleach have insane power creeps as well, probably not as much as Dragon Ball but it's getting there
I think bleach is the in the pinnacle of shonen anime ass pulls and power creeps because ichigo 3 days to learn bankai and that’s just one of the many times he’s gotten a powerup in a short amount of time.
In bleach, we have the almighty. Visionary and many broken shikai. Bankais dragon ball powers are jokes for bleach
@@shura7762 Not really in Dragon Ball the Angels alone are far more broken than abilities like the Visionary and Almighty. Moro's magic hax, Angels are in a constant state of UI, can manipulate time, resurrection, flight negation, time travel, reality warping, portal creation. Both DB and Bleach are my favourite series, both have just about as much hax as each other if you analyse both series fairly and carefully 👍🏿
@j.i.k2.044 you know both are sama as manipulate time is actually the almighty and resurrection is same for Espada on Manga with hogyoku infusion
@@shura7762 Yeah I agree but a lot of Dragon Balls hax tends to get slept on but it is there. The Grand Priest has some of the best hax I've ever seen, but your right Yhwach's hax is intense as well as Aizen, Uryu and Ichibe. I am looking forward to seeing the Almighty in anime form 🔥
W video
Yeh it's confirmed DB fans don't know how to scale, when Goku suppresses his power he suppresses his power to his opponents level, he's not holding back a certain amount of power. this is probably the most unintelligent fanbase in the world
RAHHH DRAGON BALL MENTIONED!!!
im so hyped for ultra instinct yamcha
MHA randomly went from City Block level to Island busting
It’s still unbelievable to think a human can become more powerful than Namek saga Frieza
In reality, the problem of power creep starts after the 22nd Tenkaichi tournament, with the King Piccolo saga. The problem with bad story telling starts there as well, as that seems to be correlated with the power creep. Characters quickly stop having any purpose except getting stronger, where "stronger" just means doing whatever they were doing before but faster and harder.
jjk does power scaling right
TYLEARRRRRRR!!
Tournament of power cliffs is a pretty cool name
Fusion characters are cracked
Tbh, I don't really know why but this is like a very funny comedy (timestap between 5:37 and 5:48)
Pls do sakamoto days vs baki verse 😃
In the manga blue vegito still claps though
The transformations don’t seem to make him that much stronger anymore. He’s approaching his peak potential naturally. Like how it wouldn’t have made a difference for Mystic Gohan to stack with Super Saiyan. That’s why he doesn’t transform in his fight with Uub at the end of Z.
That's head cannon, but that's a good theory
That's head cannon, but that's a good theory
base cabba after being unphased by a 100 big bang ssj4 gogeta kamehameha:
i refuse to think cabba can beat teen gohan because it's extremely stupid
So let me get this straight...
Gohan trained for 2 years basically in the DBZ and went from Raditz threat to beyond super perfect cell😂
Frieza with 10 years and 4 months of training (I don't remember how he spent in real time) went from super saiyan victim to above True Ultra Instinct Goku and Ultra Ego Vegeta, Gas, Granola, Full Power Super Saiyan Broly and Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta💀
Broly in the span of a day and his lifetime of training with Paragus went from below base Vegeta and Goku to rivaling Super Saiyan Gogeta😭
I don't even want to wxplain Gohan gapping the entire story with Beast🤣
This is simply ridiculous. Especially humans creating androids that rival Goku and Vegeta's max power during the MORO ARC!😂
What make me shocked is that all these normal characters dont even have god ki but are ssj blue tier. It stupid...
Is cabba super Saipan stronger than all of z ???
Doesn't even need SSJ so yes. If in base he's on par with someone who is on par in base with Goku in base, then yes.
Ngl tho Gohan is kind of a funny character cuz like he literally never does anything but you kill one android and he goes so berserk he can basically one shot the main villian. It's actually crazy
You don't get it, it's good writing that complete weaklings can eclipse God Ki, a power Goku thought he could never achieve on his own...
Gohan beast his Gohan’s prime i think💯
They are as strong as the writer decides no since in making since in it
And this kids is why... GOKU SOLOS
Cant wait for why random ant (top arc) vs every dbs arc before top isn't close (random ant solos btw)
Amazing video I love the depth you go into I just want a lightly touch something very minor because it is quite opinion based vs factual based and I don't want to start another freaking Dragon Ball war between the die hards and the people who think one piece of information rules over all when you said vegito is the strongest character in Z outright I couldn't help but thinking about the only character stronger than him gogeta now I have my sources Dragon Ball Z Japanese source material explanation Guides and Akira Toriyama against people who think otherwise have their sources of information besides that point love everything that you said I agree with with you everything was balanced fairly well up until super and that's where shit got bonkers keep grinding keep pumping out amazing content and your fan base will back you all the way
Gogeta isn’t in the dbz manga or anime and also THANK YOU GOAT
@@TylearnedI mean if you don't count Dragon Ball Z Fusion Reborn then I give up you win I can't say nothing fam but heis most definitely is in the manga bruv regardless stay safe stay healthy and stay strong
@@SIGMA-52 fusion reborn movie gogeta still isn't even stronger 😂
Canon goku ss3 transformation is better than his fusion reborn.
Goku's ki being able to be felt across all realms even the realm of the Kai. There other things such as vegito being called the strongest master of the universe, the strongest, and other stuff
Even a hypothetical gogeta from the buu saga gets fondled by buuhan. Buuhan who clearly knows the power of the fusion dance through gotenks, was confident that even if goku and vegeta fuse, he would still win
@@Zeno1781 first of all you come with a lot of factual information that still doesn't prove anything correct hypothetical gogeta in the buu Saga doesn't get fondled by buuhan in any way shape or form it's the complete opposite and Super Saiyan 3 Goku simply powering up can be felt across the rounds and he destroyed an infinite Dimension of Hell which gogeta also destroyed in Fusion Reborn if you actually bothered to watch the movie not to mention gogeta has been stated by Akira Toriyama the feet that he has done in the animes have always been above vegitos there's also evidence in the weekly run of the Japanese information series about Dragon Ball when Z was around proving gogeta was stronger only time it was ever stated in the history of Dragon Ball where Vegetio was stronger was for the one Ark in Dragon Ball Z when Vegeta and Goku first learnt about protara besides that he has never been stronger than gogeta by fact logic reason and from what we've seen and been able to scale in Dragon Ball gogeta is the winner you're allowed to have an opinion that's fine and with two characters that are supposedly so close like these two I wouldn't blame you for not knowing all the information but now I have provided to you a quite a bit of it so do with it what you must but if you still want to argue your opinion may you please do it with someone who's willing to argue another base opinion somewhere else I really don't want to get into another heated debate with people on the internet over something that has been debunked decades ago
@@SIGMA-52
1) gogeta powering up feat only lit up the entire universe. You could just downplay this with multi galaxy
2)the man who literally created janemba said buuhan is stronger than him lmao. Wanna know who's the STRONGEST villain that goku scales too? Would you look at that, MR KID BUU.
Now if we use order of operations, we have VEGITO being stronger than that
3)fusion reborn goku isn't stronger than Canon goku because of a lot of things
Goku and kid buu fight alone was causing destruction on the kai's planet. The same planet elder kai was confident should be STRONGER THAN EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE. The world of the Kai also transcending the afterlife in size as stated in (I don't specifically know it but I could find out it's name) guide that each universe transcends the previous one
I always just assumed that the reason Universe 6 (and all the others) are at the same level as 7 since 7's just on average weaker, being 2nd from the bottom.
The mortal level isn’t about power it’s about quality of life though
@@theegg8676 I think it's not necessarily stronger fighters, but instead a higher average of strong fighters
8:42 Black Frieza entered the chat
Super is messy. There are literelly 3 diferent Canon timelines:
1- Movies (BOG, ResurrectionF, DBSBroly & DBSSH)
2- Anime
3- Manga
You can't mix them to prove a point. For example, the fact of Goku absorbibg the power of a Super Saiyan God in his base form is not canon in the manga
💀☠️💀☠️☠️☠️💀☠️💀so True. The saiyan girls got me mad no lie
still hoping for Vergil Vs Bleach Verse
Gohan got really strong in the tournament of universes, bro mystic form matched kefla in manga, kefla could toy with gold freeza
All this just for my glorious teen gohan to solo (I am coping hard)
I'd say JoJo's power creep got more insane than DB's because of how quick it'd happen.
Part 1 was building level with virtually no speed feats (mountain and MFTL+ if you scale Dio to DIO)
Part 2 was building level (mountain if you scale Kars to DIO, but thats only Kars) and MFTL+
Part 3 was definitivley MFTL+ and mountain level
Part 4 was the same
Part 5 is MFTL+ and had GER, no need to explain anything else
Part 6 had a universal dude with near infinite speed
Then Part 7 went from building (mountain if you scale Alternate universe characters to the original characters) to Multiversal+, which is fucking insane, in literally one fight.
Part 8 then reached outerversal...
Part 8 Outerversal 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
@@CerealExperimentsMizuki I'll admit it's a high ball, but JoJo is my favourite series so I think it's fine, isn't outerversal being above concepts? Gappy > Wonder Of U (logic)
@@ucantknowwhoiamformyownsaftey if you didn't know , scaling to concepts scales you nowhere . the idea was just some wank some guy in a vsbattles forum made up , the idea that scaling above concepts makes you outerversal got debunked multiple times .
and outerversal character is a character that transcends all of dimensionality , i.e an outer character would view an infinitely dimensional construct as fictional .
Tbh, outside of the jump between Part 2 to 3, the series never really power creeps that hard. Most people never really go beyond the kind of stuff that can break buildings, and while you have guys that can stop time, those people are always meant to be perceived as overpowered within their own series.
one thing, no one from part 1-5 is MFTL+, that's just bad calculations and ignoring context, FTL at most, second Pucci is not really universal as his attacks can end universes or hurt people of that level, it's just acceleration of universal degree time, also really part 7 is not multiversal+, it is just Hax and they cannot really affect multiversal things, but it has effects that can be extended like this, like Tusk4 it cannot affect the infinite universes themselves, yes not that it can affect Valentine's versions of the multiverse and part 8 is definitely not outerversal
Dragon Ball's insane power cliffing comes from the multiplier and form based power system. Most other series never tell how much this form amps someone. Dragon ball does.
So when the characters catch upto their multipliers and stack it. Well you get millions of times more power.
Could Dragon Ball's power creep defeat the Xeelee from Xeelee Sequence?
The answer is a definite yes.
Majority of the mentioned power creeps make sense, because of the effort they go through. Except for U6, and the Goku Black Arc. U6 should be Buu level at best. There's no reference or training for them to be this strong, its literally just not questioned at all. A cough from Vegeta should've erased Cabba, but he was equal to base Vegeta, who had gone through all this training, hardship and other trials. They should have never been this powerful, and a power jump to that state should have been done through training with Vegeta, and then Cabba trains them, with the old "Training with someone stronger than you boosts you power level exponentially."
Unless Zamasu wishing for Goku's body gave him the experiences and knowledge of Goku (it didn't, he was in base for quite a while) He shouldn't have been able to do anything. He just got a free pass to being bullshit overpowered. This can be explained by him having natural god/Kaioshin Ki, but he shouldn't have any experience or know what the hell hes meant to do with it.
Trunks being that strong also makes no sense, how is he able to contend with Fused Zamasu, or better yet, fight back against black. The one theory that's recently popularized is that SSJ2R is Trunks using the "Ikari" form stacked onto his SSJ2 (Which would be SSJ2*10, a x1000 multiplier) Which dosen't seem to contradict much, considering Broly never had a tail and was able to use the form. Which isn't too bad considering its 2.5* stronger than SSJ3, and could close the power gap, if Trunks had an additional rage boost multiplier like Gohan did. It seems you can still access the power as an innate thing, whether you have a tail or not.
Bro the amount of people that REFUSE to believe cabba solos DBZ is actually crazy.
He doesn’t because surprised Goku never absorbed SSJG it was never mentioned in the anime or manga. Ultimate Gohan who is Buu Saga level sparred equally with SSJG Goku. Cabba can’t even beat SSJ1 Vageta.
@@edwinquintero4020blatantly spreading misinformation
@@edwinquintero4020 Are you dumb?
@@nicholasaugello2534 I’m not the only place Goku absorb SSJG was in the movie which was retcon as it never was brought back to see the life of day in the manga or anime. When Gohan was rusty Piccolo stated he needed to get back to Buu level of power again the same one going against base Goku who apparently absorbed SSJG
@@edwinquintero4020you're spreading misinformation buddy
It is verbatim stated several times he did in the anime beerus fight
Ui is a technique, the silver haired form is just the ui put into a form, its like kaioken
Just makes you think if krillin just trained during buu and super time skip hed have one shot jiren
Come on, Ulquiorra vs jjk it will be beautiful
i just think super stopped caring
goku can use UI with all his form in the manga i believe it showed him doing it in SSG
Not as bad as beyblade power creep 🥶🥶🥶
Gohan and frieza are prodigies with unbelivable potential, is right that they get boosts easlt
He doesn’t stack UI in his base form like you think it is. He stacks a different form of UI the technique what he use in the T.O.P and in the Moro arc is the form there is the technique and the form he stacks the technique on top of his form he doesn’t gain the absurd multiplier of the form but I get it it’s still op
power clifting the series
thing to note with the future trunk arc before fused zamasu, the anime base black is toying and wrecking vegeta in blu only goes rose just to show off which anime implied rose is his version of super sayian and not blu god transformation so vegeta training for his rematch and goku rage boost from their second fight means they got like 50 x times increase
but the Manga is way worse sjj2 black loses to blue vegeta only for a zenkai allows him to beat blu vegeta ass in just normal sjj and later gains the Rose form which in manga is his version of Blue, which again they train for rematch to match him which is insane at they practically have their blu lvl now in there sjj form similar to how like battle of gods anime goku absorb god form to his sjj form.
I think it's less of the characters "power cliffing" and more of the fact that the writers are lazy and are just have the characters do whatever.
Can anyone explain why this matters?
Lot of wrong assumptions here. In the TOP 17 isn't Jiren level, its just that, as you metionted, 17 has endless energy which means he doesn't get weaker as time goes by and as he uses his energy. By the time he started facing Jiren, Jiren had already fought multiple times, the more he fights the weak he gets. That explains how Goku in the TOP looks as if he gets stronger than kaioken 10x, its not that he got stronger than that, its just that everyone got weaker besides 17
Except it's stated he gets stronger several times, and by those outside the fight such as Whis.
Tengan Toppa Guerra Lagann put on the power creep scale, and it will break it
I think you unironically understood Dragon Ball Power scaling better than even those people who do it regularly. Most of the points here are correct except for the Broly part. Vegeta was clearly holding back versus Broly the entire time and it shows. Because Goku and Vegeta in base are relative to each other and Goku was fighting on par with Broly for a short while so it make sense that Vegeta was holding back in Ssj and God.
Here is what I think the scaling in Broly movie is:
Base Broly(Start of fight)
DBS has some heavy power cliffing, but I don't think it's extremely unreasonable, it's just that many people tend to overthink and overanalyze the series lol
Beast Gohan as well lol
Honestly uou can make good arguments gor Krillin (ToP) > Golden Frieza (resection F version)
Which makes it worst is that all of these characters have normal ki...meaning god ki is basically mostly useless cause goku and vegeta couldve obtain this power
Yes the power creep of db is absolutely ridiculous. You would think he would be stronger than beerus rn and the fact that isnt it even more insane
Honestly even the super manga has insane power cliffing. Gohan stalemating max power Kefla, Base Goku and vegeta initially winning against a weakened Jiren due to teamwork, Vegeta getting a massive power boost in the Moro arc due to Spirit Training+ Goku finally learning to manually tap into UI, Granolah arc Goku being able to stack UI on top of his base form and all transformations, Ultra Ego Vegeta, etc.
Literally none of what you listed is an example of power cliff
1. Manga kefla only scales to Gohan. That's not "cliff"
2. Jiren literally runs through goku and Vegetas Kamehameha+gamma ray burst
And the rest of the dumb stuff you listed isn't power cliff that's basic storytelling
@@heroricspiritfreinen38
1. manga Kefla scales far above Max power Berserk Kale who could overwhelm perfected SSJB Goku and Golden Freeza. The fact Gohan is able to contend with someone who is a POTARA fusion of that Berserk Kale and Caulifla is insane.
2. Goku and Vegeta were winning initially by such a degree that Belmod considered Gicchin was actually right and that teamwork really WAS worth learning. Yea Jiren does manage to tank their combined blast and knock off Vegeta but this doesn't change that Goku and Vegeta made insane strides during that one arc.
3. you can have "basic storytelling" and still have powercliffing. Vegeta and Goku's power shoots up MASSIVELY after their training in the Moro arc. Granolah arc Goku stacking UI shows that it's a similar multiplier to SSJ1 and means this version of Goku would low diff any version of himself previously. Ultra Ego is a massive upgrade to Vegeta's normal arsenal that boosts his power more then rage amps and Royal Blue.
@@ShoddragonUltra Ego was also more powerful than Goku using Ultra Instinct in SSJB and was even able to eventually rival True Ultra Instinct.
TYLEARNEDDD
TYLENERD🗣️
Yuh yuh