Could Invincible Stop The Saiyans?
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- Опубликовано: 24 дек 2024
- Could Invincible Stop The Saiyans?
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Could Invincible Stop The Saiyans? This questions always been on my mind as Invincible and Dragon Ball have alot of similarities like with Saiyans and Viltrumites, Invincible and Gohan both taking on the role of being a superhero, and both Omni Man and Goku are looked are as two big names when it comes to Crossverse Battles. Today we me and Lonks Takes decided to see what would happen if Vegeta and Nappa landed in Invincible, and fought Mark Grayson. Is Dragon Ball / Dragon Ball Z too powerful for the Invincible Universe? Invincible is an adult animated superhero television series created by Robert Kirkman for Amazon Prime Video and premiered on March 25, 2021. Based on the Image Comics series of the same name by Kirkman, Cory Walker, and Ryan Ottley, the show follows 17-year-old Mark Grayson and his transformation into a superhero under the guidance of his father Omni-Man, also known as Nolan Grayson, the most powerful superhero on the planet. During his transformation, Mark finds himself struggling between his personal life and superhero duties, where he will be forced to prove that he can be the hero that his father is. The series stars Steven Yeun, Sandra Oh, and J. K. Simmons as the Grayson family, while the rest of the cast serve as recurring characters. Dragon Ball is a Japanese media franchise created by Akira Toriyama in 1984. The initial manga, written and illustrated by Toriyama, was serialized in Weekly Shōnen Jump from 1984 to 1995, with the 519 individual chapters collected into 42 tankōbon volumes by its publisher Shueisha. Dragon Ball was originally inspired by the classical 16th-century Chinese novel Journey to the West, combined with elements of Hong Kong martial arts films. Dragon Ball characters also use a variety of East Asian martial arts styles, including karate and Wing Chun (kung fu). The series follows the adventures of protagonist Son Goku from his childhood through adulthood as he trains in martial arts. He spends his childhood far from civilization until he meets a teen girl named Bulma, who encourages him to join her quest in exploring the world in search of the seven orbs known as the Dragon Balls, which summon a wish-granting dragon when gathered. Along his journey, Goku makes several other friends, becomes a family man, discovers his alien heritage, and battles a wide variety of villains, many of whom also seek the Dragon Balls. Toriyama's manga was adapted and divided into two anime series produced by Toei Animation: Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, which together were broadcast in Japan from 1986 to 1996. Additionally, the studio has developed 21 animated feature films and three television specials, as well as an anime sequel series titled Dragon Ball GT (1996-1997) and an anime midquel series titled Dragon Ball Super (2015-2018). From 2009 to 2015, a revised version of Dragon Ball Z aired in Japan under the title Dragon Ball Kai, as a recut that follows the manga's story more faithfully by removing most of the material featured exclusively in the anime. Several companies have developed various types of merchandise based on the series leading to a large media franchise that includes films (both animated and live-action), collectible trading card games, action figures, collections of soundtracks, and numerous video games. Dragon Ball has become one of the highest-grossing media franchises of all time.
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#dragonball #dbz #invincible
Vegeta surpassed King Vegeta as a child. That feat alone would be enough for the saiyans, let alone the fact that Omni-Man, Mark, the laser that weakened the planet and that other guy were needed to destroy a planet, saiyans can just destroy them easily.
It was a really dense planet and Vegeta has to charge up for quite a while to destroy a planet in the Saiyan arc
The other guy was Thaddeus who killed the former emperor but I guess what you’re saying
@titantrainer592 No he doesn't. According to the dbz guide it takes a mere power level of ten thousand to planet bust.
Vegeta had to charge up against goku so he doesnt deflect the ki blast@@titantrainer592
But when will ppl understand dat destructive capability isnt strenght or what does u are stronger dan the dude viltrumites are tough and fast asf and dont have big destructive capability.
Namek vegeta hell nah mark dont touch him.
But saiyan saga vegeta yep mark can win
Actually viltrumites don't get rage boosts as stated by conquest mark is half human so he has adrenalin unlike normal viltrumites making him stronger when angry
Not entirely sure this is true. As stated in the comics, Viltrumites and Humans are genetically the same, a human-Viltrumite hybrid will grow into a full blooded Viltrumite. Viltrumites are pre-disposed to anger issues. This isn’t a “rage boost” but Viltrumites can and likely are affected by adrenaline in combat. My main example is Mark’s second battle with Conquest, where he ignored getting disemboweled to kill the older viltrumite.
Not necessarily they likely have adrenaline as well it’s just the fact they are trained to keep their emotions in check unlike mark.
@@quetzalcoatl1013ur argument literally doesn’t make sense you can’t just say something isn’t the case then use an example where it is the case
@@monkcheese6218 I mean that viltrumites don’t receive a dragon ball style rage boost. In DB, a rage boost is strictly a doubling of a users power when undergoing extreme anger. This was important in the earlier arcs of dragon ball. However, a viltrumite doesn’t receive a quantifiable boost to their strength or speed, they just receive the usual benefits of adrenaline.
@quetzalcoatl1013 Rage boosts can vary. Vegeta when he rage boosted against beerus in SSJ2 surpassed SSJ3 goku. That means vegeta's rage boost made him OVER 4x powerful. Given the fact SSJ3 is a 4x boost.
Vegeta would mostly stomp if we use Vegeta stating he surpassed King Vegeta as a child who has a feat calculated at dwarf star level.
Above that easily
A non-canon anime filler feat to be precise.
@@kingtiger5040technically is canon to the anime time line
@@kingtiger5040Anime and Manga are separate entities. Super makes this far more transparent. As for which is canonical? Both. In fact. So are the movies. Different timelines.
@kingtiger5040 Toriyama never claimed the dbz anime only stuff was not canon though. Direct me to an interview of him stating this.
*Saiyans arrive on Earth*
Mark: Great, more viltrum-
Nolan: Mark do not fight them, those are Saiyans, they are a different breed of warriors.
Vegeta: Oh, a Viltrumite, I thought we had wiped You all out during that training mission Freiza gave us.
Mark: What?
Nolan: Basically, we got our asses handed to us.
Divine.
Nolan: basically the reason we caused our own extinction was because we were trying to get as strong as them we have failed
Mark: ah dammit
The saiyans buried what was left of the viltrumites on a uncharted planetoid which they name planet Viltrum 2
King Vegeta's triple Planet busting feat is more so dwarf to small star level than large Planet. The distance between planets is of millions of kilometers and the feat happens in a few seconds. It's One of the crazies Planet busting feats in Dragon Ball. And it's extremely casually done.
It’s not a canon feat
@@titantrainer592 Toriyama never once said the z anime only stuff was not canon. Direct me to an interview of him saying this ?
@@BigJohn303 naw they all keep saying that lol, don’t listen to them, the people doing the debate in the video is the people u should listen to
@@leo9184well no ? Cause the video is not bad but there is a lot of mistake in what i did hear
Not only is it an anime filler not even in dbz kai, the entire bardock revenge and kid vegeta has been retcon.
Low class saiyans would be top tier viltrumites if they were disguised as some.
Are they moon level? If so, that's around regular Viltrumite level
@@lucasbroome1048viltrumites have strenght an speed advantage
Even stronger than base buu saga goku.
@@Coldskin1 Do you mean like lifting strength?
@@Coldskin1That's a ridiculous statement. Viltrumites would have their hands full with saibamen alone.
@@lucasbroome1048 easily actually some of the babies have the potential to be higher actually
Oozaru Nappa would wipe the floor with Mark. Mark being very fast though if he somehow found out could maybe cut their tails
Not really vitrumites have better speed and strenght feets.
Wow buu saga base goku struggling with 40 tons💀
@Coldskin1
that was anime filler and goku lifted katchin the most dence metal in the universe with one hand casually and threw it
@@eror404acountnotfound9 Exactly.
@@Coldskin1 ah yes lifting being a contributor on a feat, aight then get mark pass base 616 miles someone who cant even lift a mountain but can damn well b1tch planet busters.
@@Coldskin1kid goku dodged lightning freaking lightning and it was coming straight at him nappa and vegeta are stronger than kid goku so they can also dodge lightning not even accounting how fast their beams would actually move because they’re technically light which moves at the speed of light
vegeta's power level is 18,000, and around 10,000 is what is needed to destroy a planet completely. Nappa's power level is somewhere between 4000 and 8000. If we aren't talking about end of series invisible, then he gets squashed by nappa like nappa did to the weak z fighters. But if end of series invisible is used, then invincible wins against nappa mid-high diff and then vegeta finishes him off low diff.
King Vegeta destroyed 3 large planet by waving his hand and he had 10k power
@Eesar11 If we count filler then yes, which would mean invincible would be squashed either way.
@@Eesar11 That was anime only content and is not canon to Dragon Ball. Therefor it cannot be used as proof of anything.
@@CosmicGoku529 It’s canon. It’s anime canon only tho, the manga doesn’t show it.
Did you guys forget nappa has great ape ? Once nappa goes great ape it's over.
Nappa flicked his finger and erased an entire city casually while standing in it. If invincible at this point in the show can’t punch with the force of destroying a city minimum 😂he’s not hurting Nappa let alone Vegeta. Also way weaker characters blew up the moon so yea, Invincible will get clapped in one hit
I’m confuuuused what these 2 are fishing for to justify a fight with mark😂
@@chrisbarclay4852they needed a video
I agree. I saw someone say Vegeta would win but Nappa wouldn’t which I find crazy 😂 I think a group of saibamen could give Mark trouble
@@MariUrameshiI made a comment explaining how a drastically nerfed raditz could likely do it lol
@@MariUrameshi As I look back in the comments, the Nappa disrespect is crazy 😂😂they making it sound like he doesn’t have any type of fighting skills. Someone also said invincible would grab him and take him to space…as if that’s ever been his first move.
"I'M GONNA FUCKING KILL YOUUU"
"Galick Gun-FIREEEE"
- the final battle for Freeza Planet 644
There is no way in hell Mark will do shit to Nappa
It will just be him fighting a much stronger Conquest
@@AmericaChavez17 that can blow up a planet
@@mazensultan2576 not just blow up, but also survive an explosion since in the Invincible series, it was confirmed by Space Racer that even Thragg cannot survive a planetary explosion
Exactly invincible couldn't beat nappa in fact I'm pretty sure raditz would easily beat mark
Short answer: no, Invincible gets walked like a dog.
invincible fans boughta come up with any excuse possible to give him a chance lol
@@muscleman1777 no way in hell not even Omni-man could beat them
@@SaiyanCherry you’d be surprised what excuses they’d make up to defend invincible lmao
@@muscleman1777 I know it’s like people trying to say One punch man can beat Goku he is a gag character of course he would wipe the floor with everyone just like Arala.
LETS GOOOO. YOU DON'T KNOW HOW LONG IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS COLLAB 😭.
Forget Vegeta and Nappa. I'd like to see how Mark does against the fucking Saibamen.
Overkill.
mark couldn’t even fight a few mauler twins he’s not standing a chance against the saibamen
@@muscleman1777maybe 1 on 1?
Invincible gets dog walked. Vegeta and Nappa are able to casually blow up planets with a simple ki blast and I don't think a single Invincible character can even destroy a moon.
When has Nappa destroyed a moon?
@@lucasbroome1048 Scales way past 21st Budokai Roshi, who oneshot the moon with a Kamehameha.
Also scales past Piccolo, who oneshot the moon again in the Saiyan Saga prelude with a casual ki blast.
@@sageoverheaven I'm pretty sure a similar scaling chain can put the Viltrumites on Nappa's level
@@lucasbroome1048 Not contesting this, since I haven't read Invincible. I was simply answering your question.
@@sageoverheaven It was rhetorical. I knew why Nappa was considered Small Planet Level. I was just throwing his own point of view back at him
Cecil: “Mark, where the hell are you? there’s giant monkeys destroying my city”
you didnt mention that Saiyans have rage boost as well. Not only could he adapt to the situation and get stronger while fighting vegeta can also get rage boosts as well.
@@famalam943 yes, saiyans do have a rage boost. Gohan has a better one because he is more emotional
Not even saiyans any other characters can get a rage boost. Like Buu as well.
Vegeta also possibly got in the cell saga. But cell was so strong especially after coming back that i didnt do much.
Wdym the ''My Bulma'' Line Broke the show?
@@famalam943Saiyans does indeed have a rage boost.
Even Kid Goku had a rage boost when eighter died.
So yea saiyans do have rage boosts.
@famalam943
'Energy, Courage, and Right-Mindedness - The word “energy” [genki] is well-known, but if one asks if you do not have energy if you have even one sickness [byōki], it is difficult to come up with an answer. There are people who are healthy yet do not have any energy, and there are people who are sick, yet full of energy. Plus, even among people who have roughly the same power, for example, there were people who gritted their teeth and stood their ground when Piccolo Daimaō attacked them, yet there were also people who trembled and fled. Thinking about it this way, perhaps you will understand that a variety of different “ki” are indispensable in battle. In the world of Chinese martial arts, exemplified by T’ai-chi Ch’uan, ki training and control is given great importance.''
''In Dragon Ball, the dark mage Babidi invented a machine that measures and absorbs ki, but current science cannot measure ki levels or store it anywhere. However, when someone cheers you on, you can “receive energy and courage [yūki]” from them. “Ki” is something that cannot be seen with the eyes, yet it is there.''
Akiras words.
Rage boost was already a thing in Z
Also Vegeta got a power up by simply being salty of Goku.
Even the way Goku achieved ssj it was from a rage boost.
There is also Buu.
Ki comes in many forms and emotion also contributes to it. There was definetly Rage boosts in Z.
Anyway even if you ignore this. they where added in Super so yea EVERY SAIYAN now has rage boosts, power ups related to their emotions. which makes sense since the only way to achieve normal ssj 1 and 2 is through rage.
Hate Super all you want but saying that ''My Bulma'' line broke the show, you are insane.
anyway tired of talking about this. if you reply i wont.
@@onyx6774 but Goku also was more raised as a human, which doesn't completely overwrite his saiyan DNA, but it still influenced him to be more in contact with his emotional side.
Vegeta early DBZ (and even in the android/cell saga) couldn't do this, he could get mad, but that wouldn't give you a massive power boost.
Vegeta only really learned about his own emotions during the Perfect Cell fight where Trunks gets killed, he then still surpressed it and tried to force a family life, which he then tried to toss out with babidi, after that he's basically in tune with his emotions.
@@onyx6774 left out the literal embodiement of saiyan rage which is broly. Who kept getting stronger the angrier he got.
King Vegeta destroyed multiple planets with just raising his hand. Planets in dragon ball are 155 times bigger than the solar system, and Vegeta surpassed his father as a baby, making Vegeta multi solar system level as a baby.
Planets are 155 times bigger than our solar system??? Where have you heard this?
@@EnoYaka “the distance to earth and Jupiter is 4,000,000km. That’s about the size of the earth”
@@Vegitoreal10101Where did you get that statement from?
@@ihadawerewolfneighbor0337 “the distance from earth to jupiter is 4,000,000. That’s about the size of the earth.”
@@ihadawerewolfneighbor0337MY SOURCE IS THAT I MADE IT THE F*CK UP!
That guy, apparently.
Mark vs raditz should be fair
I think that's lowballing Mark slightly
@@lucasbroome1048Maybe Orlen?.
Appule?.
Eh... Paragus?.
@@xx_hivewars_xx9013 I was thinking Nappa or Bardock pre-Zenkai
@@lucasbroome1048 Mmm...
Ok 🆗👍🏻.
@@lucasbroome1048more like highballing.
I think it's crazy to think that Mark is around the 8 to 9 thousand range. He certainly has a lot of speed feats; that's not something to argue against. But in terms of durability and strength, I doubt he'd even be comparable to Raditz. Yeah, I know, people are going to yell that I'm wanking. But hear me out first.
Roshi blew up the moon. If you watch the anime, this moon-busting feat was almost instantaneously done and is relativistic to light speed. In fact, it could be argued as potentially nearly equal with how fast the light hit the characters since light IRL takes around 1.2 seconds to reach Earth from the moon. I believe the key difference as to why people bring up Piccolo and his moon-busting is because it vaporized the moon rather than Roshi, who blew it into tiny chunks. Vaporizing something is obviously far superior to just turning it into smaller pieces, each of which burned in the atmosphere really fast though since there was no light show/meteor shower. Piccolo also did it as a simple uncharged ki blast, whereas Master Roshi did it at full power, exhausting himself. So there's good rationale to use Piccolo. But I think Roshi's feat is already pretty damn close and can easily be scaled to a planetary feat with at least relativistic light speed.
Roshi had a power level of 180, and he was self-admittedly weaker than every Z fighter during the last tournament of OG DB. He was also still weaker than King Piccolo, whom Tien was confident he could one-shot with his tri-beam. And both were weaker than Kami, who could defeat the Goku who killed King Piccolo, with nothing but a flick of his finger. Yet despite this massive jump in power for Tien and this powerhouse Kami, everyone agreed with Piccolo that all of them attacking together were unable to win, despite him being exhausted and beaten bloody by Goku. The only one who stood a chance was Goku, a crippled man at this point.
This just goes to show you the major power gaps that have already come up. We don't actually know the true gap in power between Goku having 910 during this tournament and Roshi with his 180. The reason we don't know is because Dragon Ball power levels used to scale wacky and be massively more powerful with even smaller increases. An example is that of the start of the series Kid Goku with a power level of 10 throwing cars, tanking bullets, and having bladed weapons shatter against him mostly unharmed...far stronger than an average human who has a power level of 5. And don't even begin to speak of the differences between 5 and 180; clearly, the farmer is millions of times, probably more, weaker than the moon-busting feat. He's not anywhere close to 1/16th of that.
But DBZ makes power scaling more linear. But, even then, we don't exactly know when this happens. As it seems a little strange that around 4 years of training only makes Goku go from 910 to 924.
Anyway, now that that's out of the way, let's just assume the lowest for Raditz. There's plenty of material to grab from which places him above 1200. But let's do it anyway. So he's, being incredibly generous to Invincible here, he's 7 times stronger than moon-busting Roshi.
Characters in Dragon Ball physically scale to their Ki blasts. It's pretty common for characters to both physically dodge them and physically tank, catch, and even throw/punch them away like when Goku punched one of Frieza's into a nearby planet causing it to combust. These feats almost always happen when people are relative to one another. It actually barely happens when people are being supremely dominated, such as with Perfect Cell vs Vegeta.
Raditz would be able to easily catch an attack that's 5 times stronger than Roshi blowing up the moon. (Likely far more) (hell, if we take the sacred water Goku at its word, it's implied the Goku who killed King Piccolo is at least 10 times stronger than he was during his fight with Tien. And Tien, Goku, and Roshi were all basically equal before drinking.) He could catch it when it's going at him full force, easily crush it in his arms, or throw it, or even just tank/dodge. Physically this would place him far beyond the best feats of the Invincible comic. Ramming through a planet. And that was done by 3 Viltrumites together, mind you.
So no, I don't believe I'm wanking Raditz. DBZ just has stupidly high scaling compared to a lot of shows, and original Dragon Ball just ain't given the respect it deserves from a scaling standpoint.
And yeah. Whatever, people can say im a dragon ball tard. But that's not an argument. Dragon ball gets absolutely crapped on ny numerous media which weirdly enough even includes WARHAMMER 40K. YEA, that was a shock to me too. I just like to be consistent with my scaling regardless of who it's on. And if you think I'm arguing because I like raditz more than invincible? No. Raditz and Nappa are boring ass characters, invincible is far superior as a character to both of them combined. But the fight, to me, is like throwing guts from berserk against fat buu. Obviously guts is a better written character. But at the same time. It's obvious he cant do anything.
Even then dbz power levels aren't linear
50% final form frieza who is only 333,333x stronger than roshi fp is solar system ~ universal
Universal via the fact he could tank and survive the spirit bomb which had the energy of EVERY PLANET AND STAR IN THE UNIVERSE. A SINGULAR SOLAR SYSTEM in dragon ball has innumerable stars.
Im PRETTY SURE the difference between a moon buster - solar system if not UNIVERSAL isn't just a 333,333x difference 💀
@@Zeno1781 I disagree with the fact that frieza is anywhere near universal. But, if that's how you interpret it, I suppose. Personally I think that frieza is around large star to multi star level when he's in his final form.
@@drunkenrage8996u can scale final form Frieza to solar system level because when he blow up planet Namek the explosion was so strong that it showed the explosion from the zoomed out galaxy
@@Kodeuk ruclips.net/video/cLg8UEDAv-w/видео.htmlsi=vq4a-VMntrS63Yh3
I don't think that's what they're showing. I skipped to the explosion and it was large. But it also just seemed to be a view from the moon of namek. Due to limitations there's a maximum distance from the planet a moln can be, and the explosion never hurt the moon itself.
I also don't believe that frieza was even the thing to make it explode in this way. Frieza merely started a process for this planetary destruction. He could have done it instantly. But he never did it that way because he wanted to prove he was stronger. The planet being destroyed was merely a pathetic fit of rage for if he lost. Since if he really was weaker than goku. He'd be damned to let goku leave alive.
(EDIT:)
Additionally. This scene with the planet exploding, with goku on it....."dying." Is symbolic, not literal. Although I personally believe that it makes no sense for king ki failing to notice goku survived.
@@drunkenrage8996 im not talking about that scene lol I’m talking about the planet explosion itself showing the explosion from a zoom out galaxy. And I have the scans for it
Saiyans are just built different, way before ssj, they we're already faster than the speed of light, and strong enough to destroy a planet
Yeah i agree Nappa would get his ass beat and Vegeta would win, like not only is Vegeta like blatantly way stronger than Marc but also way more skilled (swap hands with Goku who post training with king kai is stated to have thousand of years worth of training and be the greatest martial artist in the universe on a mental and physical level) so like outside of speed this man's going to get bullied
Nappa is planet level though. Mark is continental+ level seeing he destroyed an unstable (or something) planet with two other viltrumites.
SAIYAN SERIOUSLY INVINCIBLE VS NAPPA AND VEGETA SAIYAN SAGA.
King Kai having thousands of years of experience isn't any different than a Viltrumite tbh
@@AngelloDelNorte Loool, are you serious? Roshi could destroy moons and Nappa was nearly 30x stronger than him. Mark is literally weaker than Goku when Raditz one shotted Goku lol. 😂😂
Crisp editing this video was so satisfying to watch
I love how 90% of these are proposals are "yeah, they'd beat raditz decently, nappa would put up a good fight but possibly lose, and vegeta would kill them all."
Mark ain't even getting to nappa. The saibaman are jumping his ass
With what small planet level feats?
@@lucasbroome1048 just roshi alone was able to destroy the moon woth a power level around 200 to 139 or something while saibamens are all around 1000. Not to talk about vegeta scouter that by throwing a small beam destroyed a planet. And wasn't small either
@@voxtube4396 Nobody besides Kaioken scales to Vegeta and destroying a moon isn't small planet level
Destroying a moon isnt small planet level but being 5 times stronger than a guy who destroyed the moon does make you small planet level@@lucasbroome1048
@@lucasbroome1048 isn't but considering how weak compared to other characters is just goes to show how strong the others are
Mark's rage boost is just adrenaline, he's the only Viltrumite that has this 'ability'
I feel like the thing that makes dragon ball and invincible interesting from a scaling pov is how crazy the speed values in invincible and the durability in dragon ball are, it's basically unstoppable force vs indestructible object.
Only way Marks escaping Vegeta is if he goes full speed into space. As we’ve seen, when a viltrumite gets hit too hard, their body usually explodes or something, when Vegeta got crushed by a giant baby gorilla he was still able to crawl away
It's like saying "can a fish net stop this planetary beam that can eradicate everything in its bath"
People give the speed of invincible characters way too much credit, there’s a reason why you don’t see them casually going full speed at opponents since it would at best kill both them
Here is something that I think shouldn't be considered a feat, the King Vegeta feat ( in my opinion ) was to show how the Saiyans conquer and destroy planets. I doubt that King Vegeta actually blows up nearby planets, and like I said is to represent how the Saiyans take over and destroy worlds
Not a Very good argument. If it's meant to show how the saiyans Destroy planets, then It can Just as easily be meant to show their real Power, we don't try to guess the intent of the author in vs battle(pretty pointless, also Death of the author). The Best you could argue is that we should not take the cinematic timing of the feat for it's inconsistency.
If you Want an "in lore" reason to accept the feat, you can Just look How extremely casually Piccolo can moon bust(also super Quick), as well as the fact Vegeta in the Buu Saga compares saiyans to Buu's Destruction of planets and other celestial bodies like stars. You also have guides that claim saiyan saga is star level. It's not as Crazy as you think.
Well I never said that King Vegeta couldn't do what was shown, I just think it represented the Saiyans taking over and destroying planets@@marshallyoungmandy8434
That argument has no base
Just headcanon
This argument could have been decent if when they show king vegeta waving his hands and destroying the planets(by the way the strongest sayian /the 2nd strongest not some random)
And it was some randoms then maybe we could say they were just showing us that they are conquering plenets And not an actual feat
This is one of the calmest intros from this guy I have seen so far
4:20 Don't forget that characters can raise their power level significantly by concentrating all their energy into a singular point (Raditz statement) where essentially someone with the power level to not be able to destroy something such as a moon could potentially be able to do so by concentrating enough energy into a blast that exceeds the threshold required to do so. At the same time based on the distance a blast that wouldn't have much effect on a planet can destroy it if it's further away as shown numerous times in the series with villains going further into the atmosphere away from the planet so that their blasts can destroy it.
This isn't even fair, completely different universes that contextually treat their absolute power completely differently.
I mean, you can always compare two individuals for the sake of it. But it really isn't fair when Saiyan Saga characters were already able to level whole cities and blow up planets. It'd be like comparing a grenade and a nuke. Sure, both are explosives, but there's a clearly stronger one.
No. Next question: Can an ant stant up to my boot? The answer may surprise you.
I guess a different scenario would be: "Can Vegeta and Nappa defeat the Vultrimite Empire?"
Bardock wins Neg difficulty
Step one: Raise a finger and destroy Viltrum.
Step two: Success
Unfortunately, Mark is probably getting washed by Nappa alone. While yes he’s absolutely so much faster than either Vegeta or Nappa, in terms of AP and defence, he’s incredibly and woefully inadequate, to the point that him punching Nappa would result in Mark likely shattering the bones in his arm. Through Roshi being able to blow up the moon in early DB, even though he only had a PL of 180, it shows that even very weak characters in Dragon Ball far surpass pretty much everyone in Invincible simply because of the difference in scaling.
End of series Mark might be capable of going up against Nappa, but then he’s getting rinsed by Vegeta with no real difficulty asides from him being so much faster, which really only prolongs the fight and not much else.
Mark is already above moon busting tho. I don't know why everyone puts him below it
@@lucasbroome1048 Cool, so that puts him at a pl of… what? Like 300? Compared to Nappa's 4000?
@@decimation9780 What the heck are you guessing off of? There are no power levels in Invincible
@@lucasbroome1048 Him busting a moon. For Roshi it was extremely difficult, and he had a pl of 180, for Piccolo it was extremely casual, and he had a pl of around 780. Splitting the difference, it’d be around 300-350 for Mark. Putting him around medium moon level, which is still woefully inadequate.
@@decimation9780 I'm saying where did you get the numbers for Invincible. Are you comparing Piccolo blowing up a moon to Invincible blowing up a moon? A planet is what was destroyed. Not a moon. It was even bigger than Earth
I genuinely hate how invincible fans keep trying to scale viltrimites to faster than light. I get there travel speed is that, but there is absolutely no feat in the show that shows there combat speed is even close to that.
If we are saying viltrimite combat speed is FTL, you are saying angstrom levy, immortal, mauler twins, and battle beast are all FTL.
This is extremely bad when you watch the season one episode with battle beast. Since average humans were fighting him without getting speed blitz.
So everyone shouting that viltrimite battle speed is FTL. Is saying that black Samson and duplikate are also FTL, since they were able to fight battle beast without getting speed blitzed.
Also the kaiju was implied to have been able to beat Omni-man whenever he was amped by the government. We are really going to be saying with a straight face that the kaju’s attacks were FTL?
Agreed. If we were to put this on a much lower scale, we could say that Viltrumites fly at Falcon speed (which is around 150km/h or 93mph for the top Horizontal Flight speed), which makes them extremely fast in a straight flight, but they'd have to be much slower in order to properly fight and move around their foes. Doesn't mean they couldn't zoom around and charge up a Light Speed punch, but that kind of speed takes some load up. That's why we see them fight at a more grounded (pun intended) speed in the Show and Comics. They simply can't keep that speed up all the time.
Good job on hammering hone the facts dude!
this is just the anime events in the invincible verse , if this were to actually happen raditz would be with the 2 saiyans cuz he doesn't have a brother to look for ( in this what if)
Nappa: Hey Vegeta! Look. *Title Screen to Invincible starts to play.*
Crazy the levels The Saiyans are at now compared to when Raditz first turned up.
This is massive wank to Invincible. Nappa alone would lay waste to every Viltrumite and its not even close
What's wank is thinking Nappa solos a verse he'd have trouble even seeing fodder characters move. Plus, he's just not stronger than any named Viltrumite
@@lucasbroome1048 It took three strong Viltrumites a lot of effort to destroy one small dying planet. Roshi and Piccolo easily blew up the moon in one ki blast and one kamehameha, and at this point Nappa is already several times stronger than both combined. Even if we lowballed Nappa and highballed all the Viltrumites, Nappa wins on strength alone, not to mention speed.
@@tttttttttttttttp12 You don't know the information you're spewing. Viltrum is bigger than Earth, and would have restabilized if the Viltrumites didn't hit it. Why do you think Thragg killed Thaddeus instead of Space Racer who shot the planet?
Highballing the Viltrumites puts them at star level because Viltrum could be argued to be denser than stars, yet needed the Viltrumites to ram through it. That's like Android tier. Mid ball places the Viltrumites on Nappa's level while being faster than every single person during the Saiyan Saga. Lowball places them at moon level, which still places Thragg on the same level as Raditz
Nappa has no strength advantage, and there is no argument to be had for the Saiyans involving speed
@@lucasbroome1048 whatever uncle grandpa soloes fiction so who cares
@@tttttttttttttttp12 As long as Invincible solos Nappa
I ain’t finished but why these two dudes casually taking like saiyans don’t get rage boost too? I keep hearing oh mark might rage this n that
Hello bro I’ve been watching both ur channels the cobra Kai one Tylern and this one and just realised it’s the same person I would just like to say ur videos are amazing
Thanks goat🕺
I'm glad i wasn't the only one who at one point was like "wait hold on that's the same dude"
This is probably the only video where power level are taken into consideration and are treated as a fact
bro mark doesnt get past nappa, these guys are speaking bs. Plus what he said in 6:49 to 6:56 makes no sense😂. “Mark should be faster than vegeta but giving the fact that vegeta is both stronger and faster”.like huh?
Did you guys really say that Vegeta and Nappa wouldn’t be able to keep up with mark ? Goku was dodging lightning and lasers with a power level of less than 200. Mark would get beaten to a pulp.
The fight would be similar to Tien vs Nappa.
Imo have read all of invincible friction plays a big part in the speed of the characters. We see mark get tired flying to Africa while a relative mark can fly to the moon in a flash. Due to the lack of friction they are able to move alot faster
Friction doesn't play a part in the speed at all. They even say they ignore inertia
I don't even have to watch the video to say absolutely NOT. It took 3 of the most powerful Viltrumites to destroy a planet, Vegeta could do that with his pinky toe. 0 difficulty, Mark is getting clowned
Who is setting up my boy for failure! He’s maybe getting through Nappa
idk bout that
@@nasQuickToReact naw he may be able to get mappa
How about comic book mark will he still win?
If Nappa has a hearth attack, then yeah, maybe
With how severely underestimated and low balled , vegeta and nappa still stomps
Raditz by himself is going to dominate Thragg in a one on one fight. An attack that obliterated the Moon in an instant all the way from Earth was only able to singe his leg hairs. Raditz also has confirmed FTL combat speed and reactions. While I think that the speed of Viltrumites in general is absurdly underestimated and lowballed in terms of applicability in combat. Raditz is still SIGNIFICANTLY faster than any Viltrumite. Basically you would need the entire Viltrumite race to conceivably beat someone like Raditz and even then he is still probably going to win. Nappa and Vegeta are not necessary to bring into the fight at all. To be honest within moments of fighting someone like Raditz I'm pretty sure the Viltrumites would surrender. As even IF they DID think they could kill Raditz he'd still be viewed as an existential threat. Instead they'd surrender and Raditz is getting his own Viltrumite harem. A Saiyan and Viltrumite Hybrid would be a god.
Jeez. There is quite a lot wrong
1. Viltrumites are MFTL+. That's faster than Saitama full speed. How can you get Raditz, or anyone during Saiyan Saga, faster than that?
2. Raditz being a moon buster is below any regular Viltrumite's paygrade. No named Viltrumite would be needed to fight him simply because they all scale above at least 2 small planet level feats
3. Even if they were somehow weaker than Raditz and all decided to fight him, they aren't the surrendering type. Even when losing. After they'd throw every tactic they know, they'd probably just try to destroy the planet out of spite
@@lucasbroome1048 The irony in saying "this is wrong" and typing out nothing but fallacies for 4 paragraphs straight lol
@@mee091000 Point out the fallacies you think you found. Also there are clearly 3 paragraphs
@@lucasbroome1048 Ah yes 3 paragraphs of fallacies you are correct.
@@lucasbroome1048 Raditz is far beyond Moon Buster. A Moon busting attack did not even phase him. It only burned off his leg hairs. Viltrumites have MFTL travel speed and can only use that speed in combat via bullrush. If they are already up close they can't fight at those speeds by their own admission. Allen explains this in depth. Moon Busters are way above Viltrumites paygrade as you will see later on. An entire squad of Elite Viltrumites lead by Conquest did not even want to risk fighting Monster Girl.
When Piccolo blew up the Moon, he did that later the same day they beat Raditz, so Piccolo was still tired. Raditz also took the same attack ( might have been more powerful as Piccolo wasn't tired ) to the face with no damage. Unless Invincible can use ki or pack planet lvl strenght, he's not gonna hurt Nappa. The guys in Db can also pack planet or universal lvls of power in blast and keep it in a small area without blowing much, we have seen that in every fight in Z.
How is this a discussion? Nappa evaporated a city and wiped the earth military just to pass the time.
One of the biggest factors is the fact that Mark doesn’t actually know how to fight that well, from what I’ve seen (only the show, please correct me if this changes) his training is only to strengthen his powers and not really to refine fighting techniques. Goku trained a ridiculous amount of time to perfect his fighting techniques regardless of strength and vegeta matches that. At the same stats unfortunately vegeta is dog walking mark.
1:40 into the video and you’ve already shown that they lose to nappa lol
I love this matchup purely from Mark and Vegeta having the same color scheme. Just flows really well.
Um, I know this is probably too late to mention, but Dragon Ball's world is 5 times larger then our own universe. Dragon Ball's Earth is the size of a literal Solar system. And their speed is nothing to scoff at either. Mark could have an upper hand for travel speed.
Vegeta is a planet buster. And I don't mean a wipe out all inhabitants and render it inhospitable. I mean like the planet was there and then was gone. Straight up.
Damn this video is peak
We are invin-
Jesus, can he even take Tao Pai Pai? Let alone a Saibaman
the saiyans stomp and its not close earth in db is clac to be 1/3 the size of the sun and the destructive power for this was clac to be multi solor system- multi galaxy level because of namek explosion destroyed the galaxy not just that the moon level feat done by roshi is dawf star level of ap and garlic jr can make superspaces that are 5D take that if you want and vegeta stated that a saiyan can do the same thing buu did when buu was controlled by Bibidi
Roshi from OG dragon ball at max power had a power level of 200+ and was able to blow up the moon.
Vegeta from the saiyan saga had a power level of 18,000… given the Oozaru 10x boost that’s 180,000
6:49 sooooo. . . Is Vegeta faster or is Mark faster?
I didn’t mean to say vegeta was faster, just way stronger and has range 😭. The gap is also a lot more closed in comparison to nappa due to vegeta being a lot stronger than nappa
@@Tylearned that’s what I thought but just wanted to make sure 😂
I have to say I absolutely love your thumbnails
Earth is considered a small planet in DBZ btw.
Is Earth smaller in DBZ?
Now imagine if mark was trained by master roshi instead of his dad how would that turn out ?
They stomp mark and if Vegeta gets desperate like in the canon he’d look for the moon to go Oozaru and unlike in canon vegeta can transform without using up his own power to make a power moon and his power level would be 180,000 THATS KAIOKEN GOKU FIGHTING GINYU. Marks cooked
Mark might be able to take on Nappa, but unless he uses his cruise speed to fly into space, all Vegeta needs to do is use a ki blast or hit mark at full power
Lmao mark gets blitzed by Nappa. The saiyans have much superior combat speed
Viltrumites are comfortably MFTL+ with plenty of feats of them using that speed in combat. But I'll just say their combat speed is equal to their travel speed
@@lucasbroome1048 I'll take Omniman not being able to blitz reanimen and not being able to tag Cecil for $500.
Or better yet, literally not being able to dodged the super satellite Lazer beam lmao
But keep thinking their reactions/combat speed scales to their traverse speed to wank.
@@SuperKamiGuruu Literally none of that happened in the comic
Cecil wasn't teleporting himself
The Reanimen only get scaled up just like Vegeta upscales from his father. You can't pick one over the other
The orbital hammer is straight up a laser. Nolan's dodged lasers before. You even saw a prelude to a character whose lasers Nolan had diffed in the show where you clearly got all of your Invincible info from
@@SuperKamiGuruu You gonna cashapp that $500 btw?
@@lucasbroome1048 Yeah use the reanimen tagging Omniman to upscale them rather than call out the ridiculously inconsistent showings. Vegeta was always blatantly stronger than his dad so that comparison was shite.
And dodging a LS laser puts Comic Nolan nowhere near his actual traverse speed still lmao
A group of saibamen could be as threatening as rognarrs to average viltrumites.
Think mark think 🗣🔥how tf you gonna beat nappa the goat 🗣
Honestly I think there's a chance for Nappa to survive long enough for Vegeta to take over, a lot of people forget that Vegeta had no issue taking over he didn't kill Nappa until Nappa was paralyzed, now I'd say it's debatable if Vegeta killed him because he was paralyzed or if it was because he got paralyzed because he didn't listen to Vegeta.
nappa would kill mark tf
With what destructive feats?
I think you got two things wrong. Only mark gets strong because his human adrenaline gene is unique to him vs normal viltrumites. And top
Speed verses combat speed are different. DBZ characters don’t need momentum to move fast, they go from 0 to 1000 real quick
Bro Omni man is a saiyan saga base victim
The Saiyan Saga had a lot of growth and transformations weren't a thing so everyone was in their base
Another thing you can add is that in invincible with a character that is weaker than another they will physically destroy themselves fighting them. This is shown in many sections such as with red rush and omni man or when omni man literally boocked against an entire alien race as they splattered their bodies against him. And with dragon ball strength is directly comparable to durability this means they can tank whatever they can dish out. Meaning realistically mark would just break his body down on Vegeta as he would keep throwing punches that ultimately would amount to nothing as Vegeta would just amp up with ki to show how truly weak mark is or he just throws a power ball and just squishes mark between his fingers.
My take on how strong these guys are
Invincible
Strength: multi continental-planetary mabye solar system level with wank
Speed: light speed-mftl+
Saiba men
Strength: small planetary
Speed: ftl
Nappa
Strength: small planetary
Speed: ftl+
base vegeta
Strength: planetary-multi planetary
Speed: ftl+-mftl
Ozaru vegeta
Strength: multi planetary
Speed: mftl-mftl+
Invincible isn't even planetary unless you wank him or shoddy crossover logic.
How tf you get solar with mark?
@zoltbruh276 it's stated in the guide books that omnipotus could contain enough power to destroy a solar system and invisible is way above him. This is extremely inconsistent though which is why I put it as wanked scaling.
I have Mark at small planetary. I have a feeling the Saibamen being small planetary involves a lot of math. And Idk about FTL Saiyan Saga unless we're looking into Toei composite versions
Short answer is no.
Long answer is : As always with cross-settings fights, it depends on the assumptions we make, but if we keep them fair, Mark is cooked. It does depend a bit on the period though. Spoiler alert, but Mark tanks the destruction of a planet, and then (double spoilers alert) he tanks fighting inside a freaking sun. While Nappa and Vegeta when they land on Earth, can't. So after a certain point Mark has more toughness than the saiyans. The destructive power of the Saiyans is off the charts however, being able to raze entire cities with the flick of a finger and fully able to raze or even destroy planets at full power. So, a young-ish Mark (season 1 & 2 of the series, that kind of period) is completely out of his depth, and while Mark at the end of the comics could potentially tank Vegeta and Nappa, it would probably end with the earth being razed. Also, while Viltrumites are fast, the Saiyans are completely bonkers when it comes to speed and ranged attacks. They can't fight in space to Mark could theoritically kite them, but it doesn't really help when you're trying to protect a planet.
So yeah, if the Saiyans had shown up instead of Conquest, the Earth was toast.
Depending on the rules we're using, Eve potentially has a better shot with her (spoilers) matter-warping powers. If we're using Invincible rules, if Eve temporarily overcomes her distaste for affecting living matter, she can just disassemble the saiyans on a molecular level. If we're using Dragon Ball rules and equating Eve's power to Shenron's wish-granting abilities, then she can't affect someone way stronger than herself and can't do jack to the Saiyans.
Could invincible stop the sayians?
Long answer; No
Short answer; No
Of note, viltrumites seem much more vulnerable to damage, with even weaker heroes like the Immortal able to harm Omni-Man to a small degree. Whereas saiyans instinctively use ki to "harden" their bodies against damage from weaker beings.
Vegeta would end him in a second.
I think we also need to realize that in the beginning of Invincible (show, as the comics didn't show this to my knowledge) - Omni Man was capable of holding up a rock that was basically as big as the rock Frieza threw at Goku.
Goku couldn't catch it, Namek Goku mind you.
Omni Man just casually held it.
Gotta remember it was freeza who throw this rock and freeza was massively stronger then goku at this point so its a massive rock being thrown by a guy who blows up planets and calls them fireworks
Nappa would defeat mark.hes comfortably in the star level tier
With what feats.
@@kingtiger5040 the moon 🌕 in dragon ball is at least 4 times bigger than our regular own,master Roshi vapuorized it putting it at least large planetary.kid Goku has surpassed that level of power, even piccolo many times.vageta and nappa are leagues above raditz who fodderized Goku and piccolo who easily have large planetary to dwarf star level power.
The King Vegeta feat is non-canon anime feat so don't use it as a valid feat and the same can also be said for Vegeta and Nappa blowing up the planet.Piccolo was 300 when blowing up the moon not 3500 as far as I know.Vegeta isn't a valid planet-buster due to not only never blowing up one in canon but also by calculating the average power level required blow overcome the Earth's binding energy.
According to Daizenshuu
Master Roshi=139
Semi-buff Roshi=180
Buff Roshi is most likely 200+ and used the kamehameha to blow up it.The energy required to blow up the Moon is 1800 times weaker than that used to destroy the Earth.The Earth is 81 times the size of the moon.Omni-man's meteor feat is calculated at moon-level and he needed help from Mark,Thadeus and Space Racer in order to fly through the core of Viltrum and was briefly knocked out by the collision.
@@kingtiger5040 there is nothing like non canon in dragon ball.what you meant to say it's filler,that's a misconception filler is canon, just because it was not shown in the sub or manga does not make it non canon.
@@kingtiger5040 and also cap 🧢,the moon 🌕 is one fourth the size of earth.the earth is not 81 times bigger than the moon
Invincible has a crazy speed advantage, but vegeta or nappa could just explosive wave and win
Mark would get his ass beat. He got his shit rocked when he met the viltrumites.
You're using show version. The comic is 20 years old
@lucasbroome1048 didn't mark get his ass whooped in the comic, too. We aren't counting time skips. Just the time period before thraxa.
@@db153yt That's like arguing for Kid Goku. Did they say no time skips
@@db153yt the comic Mark is way stronger than show Mark, but he would still be around Z fighters level at most, even after training, dude needed Atmo Eve blast to actually make Conquest weak enough to have any chance.
Bro I asked Chat Gpt if Nappa slams omni man, and it said yes.
Nappa getting fodderized seems like it's a trend in any story with him in it. I'd be interested to see how you feel about the implication that a Black Hole was needed to kill Nolan when he tried to end his life in Season 2. I personally feel like Adult Mark is exponentially stronger, due to both Smart Atom stacking and the Zenkai Boosts that Allen the Alien gets by EoS.
SPOILERS BELOW
The only problem is like you noted, there is no concrete multiplier. I'd assume he gets 1.05X stronger every year after the series is over, since Allen is explicated to grow in strength, scaling with his damage taken. The beating(s) that Thragg gave him would be more than enough to cause Emperor Mark a problem, until Mark just levels him. He lays the entire Coalition out, solo, despite them having direct counters to Viltrumites at this time. It's laughable, since Mark runs a train on Allen so bad that Allen looked like Nappa. I believe that Power Ball Vegeta should be the basis of the scaling, since Vegeta is Dwarf Star Level, but Base Vegeta should not be as hard as you're making him out to be.
Hopefully, the series doesn't try and antifeat Three Viltriumites, one of whom tanks the sun and burns himself to death to win.
The Vegeta vs Diodora fight doesn't really apply to this situation cause he was much stronger at that point than he was when he first came to earth. Remember Saiyan's get a significant power boost after recovering from serious injury and he was pretty fucked up at the end of that first battle. Mark still wouldn't stand a chance against him, but I figured I'd point that out.
Invincible would make it to Nappa in strength and durability. I personally don't think Lonk's Takes is a reliable source for Invincible if you are unfamiliar with the comic. He should be as strong, WAY faster as he is MFTL, Small Planet Level, better stamina, and can survive in space. He also outclasses in lifting strength. I don't think he defeats Vegeta in power, but I actually think he surpasses Vegeta in every other factor. I see a lot of people in the comments making ignorant claims about Invincible, but they really don't know their stuff about Invincible like they do for Dragon Ball which shows more bias than actual knowledge on the character. With wonky ABC scaling, Mark could also surpass Vegeta because of other characters like Supreme and Solar Man if we took King Vegeta's filler feat. This isn't a stomp like people are saying. Nobody around Raditz' level is getting Mark's attention
I'd say power lvls are only nonlinear until they reach a couple thousand, as from the beginning of Z to the end of the Freeza Saga where it is consistently shown that u need to be a certain percentage stronger than ur opponent to perform certain feats.
Important to mention though that in og DB they can't be linear seeing as a normal farmer has 5, while Goku who can beat up huge monsters and tank gun shots has only 10 and even Master Roshi reaches barely 140 when he blows up the moon. So there is only a difference of little over a 100 between a normal guy and a moon buste. Imagine if it stayed like that and what a guy with only a couple thousand could have done following the early system.
Btw. could be a cool vid to approximate the capabilities of Z power lvls going by db scaling.
Not even close unfortunately
The energy source called 'ki' makes the main difference between the two. Ki can easily destroy planets.
This is why I can’t take power scaling seriously.
Everyone and their mom is lightspeed! I hear that word thrown around every time speed comes into question. It’s ridiculous.
that's true. dbs characters aren't the best. goku lost a lot of times. goku got helps to defeated villains.
@@lol0ajo Exactly. If you’re light speed, how are you losing? You should literally be the flash.
@@Darkri56789 aye
@@Darkri56789 Simple. You're fighting someone else who goes at light speed. Or, as seen in Super (or even Z, if we count Guldo), some guy who can stop time.
@@Lorfo11 if everyone is lightspeed. Then it loses all value. No one moves like the flash, so it’s best to remove that argument.
Final battle Mark against Thragg when he was tanking the sun upclose might be able to put up a decent fight against Nappa.
But the sheer level of destruction the can release is a bit unfair against viltrumites lol. Especially with Vegeta singlehandedly threatening planet destruction, meanwhile it took 3 strong viltrumites (including Mark) working together to do the same.
Why is this a debate? Omni Man solos the verse 🗣🗣
This is a joke it has to br you're obviously taking the piss bruv because if not you gotta try harder than that then to successfully bait folks on the internet
Trolls are getting weaker and their baits are getting too repetitive 😂 come on mate try harder
All the replies are british😭😭😭
He says, with a Beast Gohan profile pic.
Big question so many people seem to be glossing over, invincible don't have Ki, DB does, its not just fists, vegeta can fire beams that blow a planet without effort from his fingers, Invincible wont be tanking that.
There's also Ki blades Vegeta if he wanted to could basically turn his hand into a light sabre.
the Ki blade depends on if Vegeta knows how to use the technique.
I can't believe Harold collaborated with puberty Chooper.
it's also that in the Dragon Ball universe, if they hit someone much stronger than them, it just stops there, like a thud, not damage to the attacker (till the attacked attacks back I guess)
in the Invincible universe, if they hit something stronger than them they generally explode or atleast break their limb.
like when someone would punch omni-man with all his power, but it doesn't even slightly faze him, then the attackers hand would break.
so I feel that if Mark would attack Vegeta he would probably just break him arm on impact concidering that Vegeta at the Saiyan Saga can easily destroy a planet with 2 fingers, he's stronger than King Vegeta who can destroy 3 planets with a flick of his wrist.
let alone if Vegeta actually did get pushed back by Mark and Vegeta would use the artificial moon and become Ozaru, Mark would likely try to fly into him at full force and likely just splatter on Vegeta, if Vegeta wouldn't just swap him straight to the ground.
I think it would be like in Saiyan saga but instead of having a kaio ken or spirit bomb. It is going to be a bloodbath of endurance, invincible ain’t going down until he is beaten bloodied and bruised.
Radish being planetary (or any low class saiyan actually) stomps.