What I don’t understand is how Ford can make the GT350r and the Gt500 with great steering feel and not extend that to all the GTS and Dark Horse . You are not the first reviewers to comment on the lack of steering feel.
I'll be honest I think they're saving that for the track day specials.... So as far as this new generation is I would keep an eye on the GTD and on the variants based on it.
@@michaelmcdonald9847 The S650 was not designed for performance enthusiasts. It was designed for meriting and sales. The focus group was Gen Z. It was designed to attract Challenger, Mustang, and Camaro buyers all at once. Giving people the performance of a Challenger while mimicking the interior of a BMW to attract BMW buyers. That's why it had an abysmal reception amongst performance enthusiasts. Oh and it's a Fully Networked Vehicle from Ford...always online providing driver data and information to Ford. Who knows what they do with the data.
Those are Shelby cars. This is basically an upgraded Mustang GT. Like Mach 1 is compared to GT350. Similar, but not quiet as good overall. But honestly, all great cars. I just can’t believe how expensive the new Mustangs are. “Upgraded” Mustang GT aka Dark Horse costs the same as Camaro ZL1. Definitely overpriced. You’ll probably be able to get them with discounts down the line, like Mach 1 (not everywhere of course).
The GT350 is probably one of the best setup cars you could drive off the dealer lot. It was fantastic to own, daily, and track. That said, definitely the engine was a concern. I had to get a new long block and after learning other issues I decided to get rid of it. This might make me come back to blue oval ...
@@BMWho Funny you should say that. I am actually looking at a c7 GS tomorrow. I didn't realize they are dry sumped. On paper they seem really hard to beat.
Would you mind elaborating on the Voodoo engine issues? Had a 2019 GT350 and had to sell it. A huge regret and I want another one. But haven’t followed on long term issues
@@ericdoyne7957 All high revving engines are prone to rod bearing issues. Mine, as well as most others spun a rod bearing. All factory with no modifications. There is no recommended rod bearing refresh per hour of track time or road miles given by Ford. They just chalk it up to a assembly defect. When mine was warrantied it was shipped with 20+ others to the USA ... All of them for warranty replacements... Additionally due to the large amount of vibration caused by the engine the crank snout is prone to cracking, pretty badly too. Enough to necessitate a new crank if you catch the cracking in time. I think it's a combination of things imo. It's a "flat plane crank" with a cross plane crank firing order... So did we really get something super special? I don't know but I'm leaning not really. Lastly one of the big mods done to the voodoo is to convert it to cross plane crank. Every one that has done so is still up and running as far as I am aware.
Got a 23 roush supercharged for almost same as dark horse .like new dark horse but 750hp with lower staggered wheels and new grill with 1.9 % for 72 months was hard to pass. So far love my 1st mustang .had a Camaro ss and a 392 Durango but you can’t go wrong with supercharged 5.0 sounds amazing with H pipe crackles and pops .
The S650 has been out for a little bit now and the styling hasn't grown on me. I tried to give it some time for my brain to adjust, but my instant reaction to seeing them in person is yuck. The S550 was a prettier design all around.
Agreed. I think ford made the 650 more muscle-y to appease the Camaro and challenger fans since they no longer have theirs. I get why Ford did it, but I think the 550 looks better
Yeah I wish they built on the muscular curves of the S550 more instead of making this thing so angular. It doesn’t do it any justice. The big ass screens, functional as they are, also take away from the character of the car imo.
Two things to listen/watch for: Zack imitating a horse's snort/snicker and Matt making the fingers-to-mouth kissing gesture with his hand rotated 90 degrees from supinated, thus making it look like he's smoking a joint.
So if you want steering feel all you have to do is remove the shock tower brace. This occurred when my Whipple was installed because it can’t clear the supercharger. Nobody seems to have figured this out. The chassis is just next level stiff you don’t need that brace.
I have a suspicion that the steering feel is muted on purpose with those massive sticky bois up front and aggressive alignment. Otherwise the masses would complain about fighting the steering wheel constantly.
@6:14 this!!!! A lot of modern cars I've driven appear to have incredible turn in but at least half the reason is because I have almost NO idea what struggle the front tires are in. Or any change in effort I may need to put in.
As a Canadian it’s always funny to see someone in California wearing a toque & winter wear. Blood gets thin living out there I guess, when it hits-40 up here it could literally kill a west coaster lol jealous and would rather be there 🇺🇸
I really enjoy the edit adjustments you did. Split the ad? Smart!! Show off all the camera angles on car in the start? Dig it! And the cat in the ad? 10/10
Great video. Regarding the tendency of the front to dart around, so much of that is down to the tire compound itself. I have a '19 GT PP2 that came with 305 Cup 2s all around. Simply switching to the PS4S once those burned off (quickly lol) eliminated that on most road surfaces - it's only noticeable on the roughest of roads now, and for canyon/mountain roads there's still a shit load of grip. Overall though, I'm very glad I got my PP2 when I did instead of waiting for the S650
Although mostly into Japanese cars, am super excited for these! Definitely love the looks and track-ability but definitely surprised it isn’t as communicative, are cars headed that way more and more? Either way, love it and looking forward to a GT350 comparison if possible!
@@jmm1174 good point. I was about to add Cadillac to that list Sadly I've only been in the 2011 and never got to test drive one of the newer gen Camaro
Owned a GT350 for many years. Of those years, many of them also included a 991 GT3. There is no comparison when it comes to size. Great car for $60,000 GT350 was in 2016 but Porsche was/is worth 3X more (and I actually think its worth more than Porsche charges for it). I sold it eventually as nostalgia wore off and the engine was a liability.
Two different types of cars that cannot be compared. Porsche is an elite rich boy European car. Mustang is the type of car a local plumber could have. I suppose the approach is why América is the most powerful economy in the world. The Corvette C8 is closer to a Porsche.
My 350 has 30k miles, never a single issue though I do need to replace the cheap plastic valve covers (though the gt had those too). I can’t imagine replacing it nowadays. It seems like anything that’s going to be as engaging is going to be 2x the price. I’ve considered buying a daily to reduce the 350 miles but I don’t even drive enough these days to justify it.
i'll probably see what Shelby Ford comes up with again on the 650 platform. i am sort of leaning towards a 5.0 in the future though because this Voodoo motor while it is very special it's also very expensive to replace and fix, thank the gods for warranty, I added another 3 years for peace of mind but now it HAS to stay stock =(
Good review and comparison gentlemen. I recently picked up a Gen 2 engine (fingers crossed lol) GT350 and I love it. Coming from a 03 Mach 1 the GT350 retains the steering feedback that I like but it's light years ahead in handling, braking, power etc. I personally like the aggressive looks compared to the smoother design of the new Dark Horse/S650 as well.
I just got a 2020 GT350 over a Dark Horse as well (also fingers crossed lol). So far it’s been phenomenal, I just couldn’t justify the current Dark Horse prices for what is essentially still a “Mustang”
I remember test driving a GT350 and another time a GT350R and not being terribly impressed by the steering feel so if this is far worse that's quite sad. I much preferred the rack in the C7 Grand Sport over any of the Mustangs.
Matt killed the mics with the track mode bump. 😂 Nice review boys, agree on all points. But it’s a little heavy, a little pricey and the lack of steering feel would be seriously disappointing.
I had a 2019 pp1. Now i have the Dark Horse. To me night a day difference. Dark horse is superior car by far. Im enjoying it. People love it. People ask me if the can take a pic ive been filmed driving on freeway go figure! (Justtryingtoenjoylifewhileim here)
Had a '16 GT350. Engine seized in that one w/ only 3K on it. Got a '17 under warranty, lost faith that the engine would pop in that one and sold it. It was the best NA V8 I've ever experienced however. Threw my hat in for a GTD, may pick up a Dark Horse for DD.
@@craig.encinitas There's a class action lawsuit against Ford over the 5.2. The engine fails due to harmonics issues with the flat plane crank - a google search will show countless failures, many of which happen on the street and at very low miles.
Dunno if I can mention the ip here but I really would like to see the Mach 1 vir lightning lap vs this.. I got a feeling the Mach 1 is still the more elite mustang. But I still say thanks to Ford for giving us a new gen mustang. Nothing wrong with the s550 chassis maybe cool it with the looks for the mid cycle refresh..
I'm about to pull the trigger on one. Lack of steering feel is concerning but there's simply no other option with all the tech goodies bundled. Would you recommend going with the handling package or without? I won't be tracking too often but the better handling the better. Thanks in advance!
definitely get handling pack, it's what makes these cars worth it. you're going from GT handling feeling to more of a Shelby with the HP. totally liveable on the streets, will decimate (some) Porsches and punch above its weight on track assuming you're not paying full ticket lol. lack of steering feel is made up with sheer mechanical grip and good chassis control. also will be better for resale down the road. I just switched from a Mach 1 HP to a Dark Horse HP because a deal came up, love these cars.
@@UnitedNaishuns Thank you boss that's great feedback. I had a Mach 1 HP and agree it was liveable and much more exciting to drive than the GT or Mach 1 non-HP. I want the DH for better interior and the tech - Mach 1 really started to feel out dated. Always a Mustang fan !!
@ Same with me, DH looks so much more exotic in person and I like the new interior. DH HP coming up for pretty cheap, just scooped a full loaded one sub-60 with 3k miles. Keep an eye out for sure!
Is the Dark Horse anywhere close to the C8? C8 prices are falling, and the Dark Horse is the same price as a 1LT C8. Hard for me not to spend a little more $ on a 2LT C8 over the Dark Horse. What are your thoughts?
Not in outright performance...and I say that as a mustang lover that has a 22 mach 1 sitting in the driveway right now. My 9th mustang. I've also had a 1lt 2019 c7 stingray with the 7 speed manual. Still the fastest stock car I've ever owned. The problem ford can't seem to comprehend is they increase hp every year by 20-30, but increase weight a few 100lbs too. Now we have a 4k pound dark horse thats STILL in the 12s, just like the first 2011 5.0 that was around 3600lbs is. The biggest issue is you can only get the c8 in an auto...but if you're strictly looking for pure performance, a base c8 will dog walk a dark horse EVERY SINGLE TIME, and thats a fact
@@jrvbamafan1 Thanks for your input. I actually ended up walking away from my Dark Horse in December. It was wrecked in shipping. The whole front underside was ripped off and the front bumper was loose. Dealer was not willing to come off price or fix it how I wanted. So I walked. So now C8 prices are still falling. I will find the one I want at the price I want at some point.
I love my DH and im coming from a kia stinger. So im lost in steering feel debate because i feel the road just fine. But to address the steering feel. The car is like that so that everyone can get in and enjoy the car. For as good as the 350 was.. most people do not drive that car alot and some barely have 20k in 7 yrs. I feel this that if i have to wait until my car tells me its losing control, then ive failed as a driver. I didn’t plan, scan the road accordingly, plan how to deal with low temps, and predict what i want my car to do. But i don't think these cars are "duds". I think they improved on the suspension part of the car and it feels more connected than when i drove a s550. The main issue with the car is inflation and greedy dealerships. Other thsn that the car is an improvement to me. Lol you think the DH cost alot. Oh boy just wait until the gt500 comes out😂. 20k-30k minimum for a 100k car maked up.
Exactly. All the GT350 performance with reliability. Ford knew exactly what they were doing. They tried to reinvent the wheel with Gen Z input for the Dork Horse. Big fail.😊
Not gonna lie. I like the new Dark Horse or at least the exterior. The dash setup inside kinda sucks. So I headed down to my local dealer for a look. 80-90k for this car in Canada when I can still pick up very low miles GT 5.0s only a year or two old for around 40-50k all day long. It's not worth the extra coin. No thanks 👎
I'm a die-hard Mustang guy, grew up around Porsche and BMW. I'd also go with an M2 or Caymen. I can't understand the massive weight of the big 3s muscle cars today. Anyway, if I had the money I'd grab a 350R with all Speedkore parts that seems to be the lightest and nicest combo imo.
The Dark Horse is ultimately better because you can get it with the ten-speed automatic. I wish the GT350 had a ten speed or DCT option! that was a fuck up by ford.
i want the dark horse engine and transmission (10spd auto) in my 09 p71 with long tubes, a pro charger, k&n intake and 4.10 gears but way too broke af and it's way too much car vs the stock 4.6 2v v8
The GT350R was made to beat the 14-15 Z28 Camaro which it did quite well. What's the purpose of the Dark Horse? Was it built to compete against the Black Panther ZL1? If so, I'd love to see that comparison.
Hey everyone!! I'm making a trip this summer down to California and would love to drive this canyon road. Does anyone know what road this is or how to get there? Thanks guys
Can someone please give me suggestion on what car has great steering feel these days for similar price as this Dark Horse? Steering feel is very important to me and I am looking for similar feel as 2004 bmw 330ci.
Love me some Mustang, but I personally need way more refinement. Give me a 5.0, but with a smooth ride....oh wait. 😉 Another awesome review, thanks for posting!
Hey guys, great review. Just FYI there is only one performance pack at this point, there is no pp1 or pp2 since the intro of the mach 1 in 2021. Also the gt with the performance pack also come with the torsen limited slip diff and k member. Not trying to be a dick. Just trying to help keep the info accurate.
I got the Mach 1, love that thing. Tremec is excellent. Crazy how many eyeballs it gets in fighter jet grey. Interior sucks though.. hopefully S650/Darkhorse materials are a big step up.
@@international-arms-dealer Mach 1 has the base interior as well a premium. You can even get cloth seats in a Mach 1. The premium Mach 1 interior is just superb. Perfect interior for a Mustang, like a GT500. Edi: Minus the carbon trim option for the GT500.
@@international-arms-dealer Same shitty panels as the S650. Even the new screens are cheap with those thick bezels. Nothing's changed, bud. A Mustang is not a Lexus.
@TheSmokingTire: ALAGAE MAY BE PRESENT. Hahaha, I love that sign and love that road. So, I have driven a 2023 G70 3.3 and a 2020 Civic Si on that road. I liked the steering feel in both those cars on that road. How do they compare to the Mustang Dark Horse in steering feel, if you know?
I'm sorry but I have to say it, The S550's look way Meaner and sexier at the same time.. Shifter's need to be upgraded but once you do a Barton or an MGW your fine..
Can someone explain to me how two throttle bodies going into the same manifold is more efficient then one big one? Seems to me it’s designed like that to reduce emissions only.
I don't think it's necessarily more efficient than one big one, but it's probably a lot easier to package two smaller ones than one massive one, at least in a way that flows well and fits under the hood.. (And not sure how in the case of a throttle body emissions and power would be at odds with each other, better efficiency is good for either there..)
More steering feel from racing simulators 😅 Tells you all you need to know about the “new” Stang. I’ll stick with the Camaro SS 1LE as it bows out uncontested in steering feedback, chassis balance and performance.
Kind of sad. People thought eps tuning would get better but doesn't seem like it. My ss 1le was an amazing car but the steering was ok for EPS but nothing special even compared to a ~$1500 3 series sedan.
I loved mine while I had it, it was nearly the perfect car. I’d honestly say it had better steering/chassis feel than my ND2 Miata which weighs like 1400 lbs less Clutch, shifter, brakes were amazing. The viability was the only thing I really didn’t like other than the running costs and electronic parking brake. You get used to the tank feel, but it definitely spoils the fun, especially on narrow canyon roads. They were such a steal though….it was the hood rich man’s Cayman lol
Maybe ask Ford if you could test the Dark Horse R. By the way. You mentioned pricing knocking on the door of a used Cayman or Boxter. What years are you referring to plus you didn't mention the maintenance cost of those cars. One favor. How about weighing your Dark Horse tester. I'm seeing handling package Dark Horses listed from 3879 to the weight your using of 3975 lbs. When curve carving the Dark Horse. Maybe give it a try individually instead of with 2 passengers
It's crazy to me that we are going to have to pay for Force Feedback on modern drive-by-wire systems once fully implemented. Feeling the road is half of driving when it comes to racing or at least being a driver's car.
Wouldn’t mind having one. I think it looks better than the S550 Mach 1 and likely more reliable than a GT350 at the track. The Coyote is damn near bulletproof.
The tire marks at 5:50 mean someone had a really bad day
maybe there's an invisible entrace to the mountain
Funny. I, almost verbatim, made the same comment!
@@Ar1AnX1xcorner 9 3/4
@@Ar1AnX1x Shhh, that's the entrance to the Batcave...
What I don’t understand is how Ford can make the GT350r and the Gt500 with great steering feel and not extend that to all the GTS and Dark Horse . You are not the first reviewers to comment on the lack of steering feel.
I'll be honest I think they're saving that for the track day specials.... So as far as this new generation is I would keep an eye on the GTD and on the variants based on it.
650 is more of a luxury GT cruiser. I have owned 550 and 650 and am ok with this new approach since I use it as my daily
@@michaelmcdonald9847 The S650 was not designed for performance enthusiasts. It was designed for meriting and sales. The focus group was Gen Z. It was designed to attract Challenger, Mustang, and Camaro buyers all at once. Giving people the performance of a Challenger while mimicking the interior of a BMW to attract BMW buyers. That's why it had an abysmal reception amongst performance enthusiasts. Oh and it's a Fully Networked Vehicle from Ford...always online providing driver data and information to Ford. Who knows what they do with the data.
Those are Shelby cars. This is basically an upgraded Mustang GT. Like Mach 1 is compared to GT350. Similar, but not quiet as good overall. But honestly, all great cars. I just can’t believe how expensive the new Mustangs are. “Upgraded” Mustang GT aka Dark Horse costs the same as Camaro ZL1. Definitely overpriced. You’ll probably be able to get them with discounts down the line, like Mach 1 (not everywhere of course).
I think because it's a new chassis and the steering system itself is probably different from that generation of Mustang
Not gunna lie you guys are smart for breaking up the ads to make it harder to skip all at once lol
SponsorBlock add-on is so damn good. Check it out. I don't have to listen to these shills advertise, it auto skips, as god intended.
I really appreciated Zacks dedication to steering feel.
The GT350 is probably one of the best setup cars you could drive off the dealer lot. It was fantastic to own, daily, and track. That said, definitely the engine was a concern. I had to get a new long block and after learning other issues I decided to get rid of it. This might make me come back to blue oval ...
try c7 grand sport/z51, ss 1le, ct4v blackwing. All amazing cars with 0 modifications
@@BMWho Funny you should say that. I am actually looking at a c7 GS tomorrow. I didn't realize they are dry sumped. On paper they seem really hard to beat.
Would you mind elaborating on the Voodoo engine issues? Had a 2019 GT350 and had to sell it. A huge regret and I want another one. But haven’t followed on long term issues
@@ericdoyne7957 All high revving engines are prone to rod bearing issues. Mine, as well as most others spun a rod bearing. All factory with no modifications. There is no recommended rod bearing refresh per hour of track time or road miles given by Ford. They just chalk it up to a assembly defect. When mine was warrantied it was shipped with 20+ others to the USA ... All of them for warranty replacements... Additionally due to the large amount of vibration caused by the engine the crank snout is prone to cracking, pretty badly too. Enough to necessitate a new crank if you catch the cracking in time. I think it's a combination of things imo. It's a "flat plane crank" with a cross plane crank firing order... So did we really get something super special? I don't know but I'm leaning not really. Lastly one of the big mods done to the voodoo is to convert it to cross plane crank. Every one that has done so is still up and running as far as I am aware.
@@850t5m thanks for the amazing Intel. Sad to hear and lucky I sold mine without issue. I’m a lifelong Mustang fan and it was a dream for me.
Got a 23 roush supercharged for almost same as dark horse .like new dark horse but 750hp with lower staggered wheels and new grill with 1.9 % for 72 months was hard to pass. So far love my 1st mustang .had a Camaro ss and a 392 Durango but you can’t go wrong with supercharged 5.0 sounds amazing with H pipe crackles and pops .
The S650 has been out for a little bit now and the styling hasn't grown on me. I tried to give it some time for my brain to adjust, but my instant reaction to seeing them in person is yuck. The S550 was a prettier design all around.
Agreed. I think ford made the 650 more muscle-y to appease the Camaro and challenger fans since they no longer have theirs. I get why Ford did it, but I think the 550 looks better
I'll take, a 69', Fox-Body, SN95, S197, S550 any day of the week over this. I hated it when I saw it the first time and I hate it now.
Yeah I wish they built on the muscular curves of the S550 more instead of making this thing so angular. It doesn’t do it any justice. The big ass screens, functional as they are, also take away from the character of the car imo.
@@romanovmarkelyon1021lies here y’all are watching another s650 video. Again. 😂
@@joshlamar1990 don’t you got some rap channels to troll
Two things to listen/watch for: Zack imitating a horse's snort/snicker and Matt making the fingers-to-mouth kissing gesture with his hand rotated 90 degrees from supinated, thus making it look like he's smoking a joint.
Anyone notice the skid marks right into the stone wall at about 6:00?
You make an excellent point about the screens: unlike many other cars, they are actually customizable and aren’t just static images
You guys got some great shots on this one. Multiple on car angles, far away landscapes, flybys. Great vid as always but the cinematography stood out!
So if you want steering feel all you have to do is remove the shock tower brace. This occurred when my Whipple was installed because it can’t clear the supercharger. Nobody seems to have figured this out. The chassis is just next level stiff you don’t need that brace.
Not a fan of the "All-New" (refreshed) Mustang... but I can't deny the sound the Coyote engine makes is Glorious!
I have a suspicion that the steering feel is muted on purpose with those massive sticky bois up front and aggressive alignment. Otherwise the masses would complain about fighting the steering wheel constantly.
Cricket’s cameo made that ad worth watching!
Immediately hit the thumbs up when I saw Cricket
At 5:50 you can see on the skidmarks that somebody had a really bad experience (tangent off into the side of the hill.....) :-O
I’ve been using the Aeropress for over two years, thanks to your ads. Never would have heard of it otherwise. It’s the only way to go!
@6:14 this!!!! A lot of modern cars I've driven appear to have incredible turn in but at least half the reason is because I have almost NO idea what struggle the front tires are in. Or any change in effort I may need to put in.
As a Canadian it’s always funny to see someone in California wearing a toque & winter wear. Blood gets thin living out there I guess, when it hits-40 up here it could literally kill a west coaster lol jealous and would rather be there 🇺🇸
I really enjoy the edit adjustments you did. Split the ad? Smart!! Show off all the camera angles on car in the start? Dig it!
And the cat in the ad? 10/10
Great video. Regarding the tendency of the front to dart around, so much of that is down to the tire compound itself. I have a '19 GT PP2 that came with 305 Cup 2s all around. Simply switching to the PS4S once those burned off (quickly lol) eliminated that on most road surfaces - it's only noticeable on the roughest of roads now, and for canyon/mountain roads there's still a shit load of grip. Overall though, I'm very glad I got my PP2 when I did instead of waiting for the S650
Your PP2 is way faster than the PP s650. I don’t think Ford will make a PP2 on the s650 since they barely sold on the s550
PS4S rules
Don't let go of that PP2. Very rare, and great performing.
Although mostly into Japanese cars, am super excited for these! Definitely love the looks and track-ability but definitely surprised it isn’t as communicative, are cars headed that way more and more? Either way, love it and looking forward to a GT350 comparison if possible!
Seems like Porsche and Mazda are the only two companies who bothered to try and make decent EPS systems
@@papa_pt 100% agree! Pretty sad, although I know EPS is tough in general.
No. It's just this Dork Horse (S650s) that lacks the important steering feeling. Other Mustangs don't have this issue.
@@papa_ptthe Camaro SS has good steering feeling and Tremec transmission in their V8s
@@jmm1174 good point. I was about to add Cadillac to that list
Sadly I've only been in the 2011 and never got to test drive one of the newer gen Camaro
Owned a GT350 for many years. Of those years, many of them also included a 991 GT3. There is no comparison when it comes to size. Great car for $60,000 GT350 was in 2016 but Porsche was/is worth 3X more (and I actually think its worth more than Porsche charges for it). I sold it eventually as nostalgia wore off and the engine was a liability.
Two different types of cars that cannot be compared. Porsche is an elite rich boy European car. Mustang is the type of car a local plumber could have. I suppose the approach is why América is the most powerful economy in the world. The Corvette C8 is closer to a Porsche.
My 350 has 30k miles, never a single issue though I do need to replace the cheap plastic valve covers (though the gt had those too). I can’t imagine replacing it nowadays. It seems like anything that’s going to be as engaging is going to be 2x the price. I’ve considered buying a daily to reduce the 350 miles but I don’t even drive enough these days to justify it.
i'll probably see what Shelby Ford comes up with again on the 650 platform. i am sort of leaning towards a 5.0 in the future though because this Voodoo motor while it is very special it's also very expensive to replace and fix, thank the gods for warranty, I added another 3 years for peace of mind but now it HAS to stay stock =(
Was cross shopping used gt350’s (19’s and up) against new SS 1le’s. Went with the 1le because of the reason you stated.
Good to see Matt has a decent coffee grinder as well (baratza).
Good review and comparison gentlemen. I recently picked up a Gen 2 engine (fingers crossed lol) GT350 and I love it. Coming from a 03 Mach 1 the GT350 retains the steering feedback that I like but it's light years ahead in handling, braking, power etc. I personally like the aggressive looks compared to the smoother design of the new Dark Horse/S650 as well.
I just got a 2020 GT350 over a Dark Horse as well (also fingers crossed lol). So far it’s been phenomenal, I just couldn’t justify the current Dark Horse prices for what is essentially still a “Mustang”
@topher9671 very nice and agreed. Mine is a 2019 with 13k miles, essentially a new car to me anyways.
That business coffee mug is amazing!
love the green cabinets in ur kitchen matt
I remember test driving a GT350 and another time a GT350R and not being terribly impressed by the steering feel so if this is far worse that's quite sad. I much preferred the rack in the C7 Grand Sport over any of the Mustangs.
Isn't the mustang more sized like the 3 series coupe less the m2?
Matt killed the mics with the track mode bump. 😂 Nice review boys, agree on all points. But it’s a little heavy, a little pricey and the lack of steering feel would be seriously disappointing.
Love the kitchen colors! That kitchen looks like it's always a great experience!
How's the Dark Horse performance compares to the Mach l and to the Camaro SS1LE?
Was mach 1 steering more like gt350 or this s550?
I had a 2019 pp1. Now i have the Dark Horse. To me night a day difference. Dark horse is superior car by far. Im enjoying it. People love it. People ask me if the can take a pic ive been filmed driving on freeway go figure! (Justtryingtoenjoylifewhileim here)
*That dual intake is an inspiration for a twin-turbo setup.*
It's for emissions, nothing more. Any forced induction set up uses a single TB.
@@JR10_RRthat's not even true... Shut the fuck up ..
@@JR10_RRDude doesn't understand how turbos are mounted.
Had a '16 GT350. Engine seized in that one w/ only 3K on it. Got a '17 under warranty, lost faith that the engine would pop in that one and sold it. It was the best NA V8 I've ever experienced however. Threw my hat in for a GTD, may pick up a Dark Horse for DD.
I have a ‘17 GT350
Just turned 6,000 miles on it this month.
I do spirited driving, but don’t abuse it. 🤷🏻♂️
@@craig.encinitas There's a class action lawsuit against Ford over the 5.2. The engine fails due to harmonics issues with the flat plane crank - a google search will show countless failures, many of which happen on the street and at very low miles.
Dunno if I can mention the ip here but I really would like to see the Mach 1 vir lightning lap vs this.. I got a feeling the Mach 1 is still the more elite mustang. But I still say thanks to Ford for giving us a new gen mustang. Nothing wrong with the s550 chassis maybe cool it with the looks for the mid cycle refresh..
I'm about to pull the trigger on one. Lack of steering feel is concerning but there's simply no other option with all the tech goodies bundled.
Would you recommend going with the handling package or without? I won't be tracking too often but the better handling the better.
Thanks in advance!
definitely get handling pack, it's what makes these cars worth it. you're going from GT handling feeling to more of a Shelby with the HP. totally liveable on the streets, will decimate (some) Porsches and punch above its weight on track assuming you're not paying full ticket lol. lack of steering feel is made up with sheer mechanical grip and good chassis control. also will be better for resale down the road. I just switched from a Mach 1 HP to a Dark Horse HP because a deal came up, love these cars.
@@UnitedNaishuns Thank you boss that's great feedback. I had a Mach 1 HP and agree it was liveable and much more exciting to drive than the GT or Mach 1 non-HP. I want the DH for better interior and the tech - Mach 1 really started to feel out dated. Always a Mustang fan !!
@ Same with me, DH looks so much more exotic in person and I like the new interior. DH HP coming up for pretty cheap, just scooped a full loaded one sub-60 with 3k miles. Keep an eye out for sure!
I chose to donate 100K canadian to Ford for making such cars and ordered a fully loaded one 🙂
@@mezbiderli enjoy it brother!
Is the Dark Horse anywhere close to the C8? C8 prices are falling, and the Dark Horse is the same price as a 1LT C8. Hard for me not to spend a little more $ on a 2LT C8 over the Dark Horse. What are your thoughts?
Not in outright performance...and I say that as a mustang lover that has a 22 mach 1 sitting in the driveway right now. My 9th mustang. I've also had a 1lt 2019 c7 stingray with the 7 speed manual. Still the fastest stock car I've ever owned. The problem ford can't seem to comprehend is they increase hp every year by 20-30, but increase weight a few 100lbs too. Now we have a 4k pound dark horse thats STILL in the 12s, just like the first 2011 5.0 that was around 3600lbs is. The biggest issue is you can only get the c8 in an auto...but if you're strictly looking for pure performance, a base c8 will dog walk a dark horse EVERY SINGLE TIME, and thats a fact
@@jrvbamafan1 Thanks for your input. I actually ended up walking away from my Dark Horse in December. It was wrecked in shipping. The whole front underside was ripped off and the front bumper was loose. Dealer was not willing to come off price or fix it how I wanted. So I walked. So now C8 prices are still falling. I will find the one I want at the price I want at some point.
How does it compare with an SS 1LE ??
I think the SS 1LE beats Dark Horse in terms of handling and price. But now SS 1LE is no longer in the market. Too bad.
Sucks the steering is so numb. Can Ford really not sacrifice 1 mph and use a hydraulic rack?
I still wanna drive one
I love my DH and im coming from a kia stinger. So im lost in steering feel debate because i feel the road just fine. But to address the steering feel. The car is like that so that everyone can get in and enjoy the car. For as good as the 350 was.. most people do not drive that car alot and some barely have 20k in 7 yrs. I feel this that if i have to wait until my car tells me its losing control, then ive failed as a driver. I didn’t plan, scan the road accordingly, plan how to deal with low temps, and predict what i want my car to do. But i don't think these cars are "duds". I think they improved on the suspension part of the car and it feels more connected than when i drove a s550. The main issue with the car is inflation and greedy dealerships. Other thsn that the car is an improvement to me. Lol you think the DH cost alot. Oh boy just wait until the gt500 comes out😂. 20k-30k minimum for a 100k car maked up.
Good informative review. I previously owned a ‘19 GT350 and now have a ‘21 Mach 1. The latter seems like the sweet spot.
Exactly. All the GT350 performance with reliability. Ford knew exactly what they were doing. They tried to reinvent the wheel with Gen Z input for the Dork Horse. Big fail.😊
What made you switch to the Mach 1?
Was there anything you disliked about the GT350 that made you switch? Whats better about the mach?
Not gonna lie. I like the new Dark Horse or at least the exterior. The dash setup inside kinda sucks. So I headed down to my local dealer for a look. 80-90k for this car in Canada when I can still pick up very low miles GT 5.0s only a year or two old for around 40-50k all day long. It's not worth the extra coin. No thanks 👎
I’ve tried with Mustang, but it honestly feels like you’re driving a boat. It really is such a big car.
Hogwash
After coming from a 370z you're right but compared to my 70 challenger you're wrong all perspective
How does it compare to a Camaro SS 1LE and the ZL1 1LE.
Does the s650 not have sterring feel control like all s550
I can’t believe how a GT with performance pack and a few other options are 60k dollars … crazyyyy
I'm a die-hard Mustang guy, grew up around Porsche and BMW. I'd also go with an M2 or Caymen. I can't understand the massive weight of the big 3s muscle cars today. Anyway, if I had the money I'd grab a 350R with all Speedkore parts that seems to be the lightest and nicest combo imo.
5:50
those tire marks looks like it was a not a good time, damn
The Dark Horse is ultimately better because you can get it with the ten-speed automatic. I wish the GT350 had a ten speed or DCT option! that was a fuck up by ford.
Filming an aero press ad with other coffee makers behind you is insane! Lol 😂
i want the dark horse engine and transmission (10spd auto) in my 09 p71 with long tubes, a pro charger, k&n intake and 4.10 gears but way too broke af and it's way too much car vs the stock 4.6 2v v8
The GT350R was made to beat the 14-15 Z28 Camaro which it did quite well. What's the purpose of the Dark Horse? Was it built to compete against the Black Panther ZL1? If so, I'd love to see that comparison.
Nah it was made as a tremmec tax
Hey everyone!! I'm making a trip this summer down to California and would love to drive this canyon road. Does anyone know what road this is or how to get there? Thanks guys
Same!
You know what else is fun? The Cybertruck making Matt eat his words
how is the fit and finish? the dark horse doug reviewed had big crooked panel gaps, it looked awful. Especially for a car that expensive.
I hecking LOVE my Aeropress. Let’s go! Also the thumbnail looks like you should be dropping some lumber in the bed of the Mustang. lol
Can someone please give me suggestion on what car has great steering feel these days for similar price as this Dark Horse? Steering feel is very important to me and I am looking for similar feel as 2004 bmw 330ci.
I was waiting for this…all the other drivers tutorials on the Dark 🐎 it doesn’t seem to give it the smoking tire justice 💨💨💨💫💯
Bring back real gauges already. Enough of these dumbass screens everywhere.
Agree.....the most tech that you needed was 2013
@michaeltabanao8092 for u but the digital cluster in my 20 gt kicks ass not this 7th gen 🤢🤮
Would take a used Mach 1 with the handling package and manual over this 7 days a week.
So would I.
Matt where can I get the beanie ?
The skid marks right into the cliff wall gave me the willies
I've never been a Mustang guy, but this one looks good
Hey Matt where did you get the beanie from?
So what you say about cybertruck now after they 've made it ?
As far steering feel goes, this vs Mach 1?
I know they touched on it just wanted a little more detail.
Love me some Mustang, but I personally need way more refinement. Give me a 5.0, but with a smooth ride....oh wait. 😉 Another awesome review, thanks for posting!
When I see this new cars I’m going to stick with my 07 Shelby GT500. Nice review 👍
Honest reviews are always top notch. 🤙
9:22 bump kills personal microphones :D
Hey guys, great review. Just FYI there is only one performance pack at this point, there is no pp1 or pp2 since the intro of the mach 1 in 2021. Also the gt with the performance pack also come with the torsen limited slip diff and k member. Not trying to be a dick. Just trying to help keep the info accurate.
There is no GT PP2 for the S650 yet Matt. There is just the normal performance pack
I got the Mach 1, love that thing.
Tremec is excellent.
Crazy how many eyeballs it gets in fighter jet grey.
Interior sucks though.. hopefully S650/Darkhorse materials are a big step up.
You should have gotten the Premium Mach 1. Quality is superb, and th interior way better than the Dork Horse.
@@ClickbaitMotorsports what? It's the same interior materials.. they don't make bespoke high end interiors for a "Premium" trim 🤔
@@international-arms-dealer Mach 1 has the base interior as well a premium. You can even get cloth seats in a Mach 1. The premium Mach 1 interior is just superb. Perfect interior for a Mustang, like a GT500.
Edi: Minus the carbon trim option for the GT500.
@@ClickbaitMotorsports I'm talking about the shitty plastics. Dash and door panel are the same regardless 🤷🏼♂️
@@international-arms-dealer Same shitty panels as the S650. Even the new screens are cheap with those thick bezels. Nothing's changed, bud. A Mustang is not a Lexus.
You lost me at 3900 and change. If i put a whipple on this it will be pushing 4200lbs before i even step foot in it, that's to much!
A low milage 2013 boss 302
I really want to see the dark horse and the 2022 Saleen Mustang White label in a drag race
Was good to see you boys out there driving this, but I'm still GM all the way!
Oooo do we have a new Prius video coming up?
Love that shot from across the canyon
I noticed that at 10:52 🤣
You have the best sponsors I think
@TheSmokingTire: ALAGAE MAY BE PRESENT. Hahaha, I love that sign and love that road. So, I have driven a 2023 G70 3.3 and a 2020 Civic Si on that road. I liked the steering feel in both those cars on that road. How do they compare to the Mustang Dark Horse in steering feel, if you know?
I'm sorry but I have to say it, The S550's look way Meaner and sexier at the same time.. Shifter's need to be upgraded but once you do a Barton or an MGW your fine..
What happened to the orange Mustang?
The GT Track pack also has the torsen and track pack, so the arvument that this is somehow better due ot that is flawed.
Can someone explain to me how two throttle bodies going into the same manifold is more efficient then one big one? Seems to me it’s designed like that to reduce emissions only.
More volume of air able to be brought in = more potential power. Also, better tip in throttle response.
it's for emmsions just like both carbon traps in the intake. Gotta make the epa happy.
I don't think it's necessarily more efficient than one big one, but it's probably a lot easier to package two smaller ones than one massive one, at least in a way that flows well and fits under the hood.. (And not sure how in the case of a throttle body emissions and power would be at odds with each other, better efficiency is good for either there..)
I would bet good money it's only for emissions.
More steering feel from racing simulators 😅
Tells you all you need to know about the “new” Stang. I’ll stick with the Camaro SS 1LE as it bows out uncontested in steering feedback, chassis balance and performance.
Kind of sad. People thought eps tuning would get better but doesn't seem like it. My ss 1le was an amazing car but the steering was ok for EPS but nothing special even compared to a ~$1500 3 series sedan.
I loved mine while I had it, it was nearly the perfect car. I’d honestly say it had better steering/chassis feel than my ND2 Miata which weighs like 1400 lbs less
Clutch, shifter, brakes were amazing.
The viability was the only thing I really didn’t like other than the running costs and electronic parking brake. You get used to the tank feel, but it definitely spoils the fun, especially on narrow canyon roads.
They were such a steal though….it was the hood rich man’s Cayman lol
At 5:51 the tracks on the road say; Someone had a very bad day.
Seen that too ouch!!
Cricket appreciation post.
I can empathize with the cat interfering with filming... 🤣🤣🤣
Was the Bullett use of 350s airbox like a bargain 350?
No, was just to bump the advertised power a bit when coupled w manifold and TB. Below 6,000rom, a regular GT makes more/same power and torque.
Maybe ask Ford if you could test the Dark Horse R. By the way. You mentioned pricing knocking on the door of a used Cayman or Boxter. What years are you referring to plus you didn't mention the maintenance cost of those cars. One favor. How about weighing your Dark Horse tester. I'm seeing handling package Dark Horses listed from 3879 to the weight your using of 3975 lbs. When curve carving the Dark Horse. Maybe give it a try individually instead of with 2 passengers
Since when are CF wheels not great for track work? Isn't that the whole point?
abuse will break em and they are $$$
Hard to ever surpass the 350 perfect balance, looks and that amazing engine that sings like no other.
Saw a new DH at my local dealer today. Marked up to $89k lol.
That sucks. I bought a 2013 Boss 302 for 32k and I couldn't imagine this thing would be almost 60k better
@@VonwafenburgI didn’t buy it brand new for that price
@@Vonwafenburg Went to another dealer today and they had a DH for $104k. $25k over msrp
It's crazy to me that we are going to have to pay for Force Feedback on modern drive-by-wire systems once fully implemented. Feeling the road is half of driving when it comes to racing or at least being a driver's car.
Every single car review complains about electronic power steering, every single one. Demand these car manufacturers bring back hydraulic steering.
Wouldn’t mind having one. I think it looks better than the S550 Mach 1 and likely more reliable than a GT350 at the track. The Coyote is damn near bulletproof.
Agreed
Dang, I ended up getting a 2023 Mach 1 HP cuz I thought the new DH was hideous