Mustang Dark Horse: as Fun as the Shelby GT350? - The Smoking Tire
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
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The new Mustang Dark Horse is Ford's latest, most track-focused variant of the new Mustang GT platform. With more power, forged engine internals, and better cooling, it's the quickest GT-based variant on sale today, and with upgraded springs, dampers, wheels, and sticky Trofeo RS tires, it's the best handling, too. We know it goes fast, but how does it actually feel on the road? And how does it compare to the outgoing Shelby GT350?
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Is the Mustang Dark Horse as Fun to Drive as the Shelby GT350? - The Smoking Tire
#mustangdarkhorse
#darkhorse
The tire marks at 5:50 mean someone had a really bad day
maybe there's an invisible entrace to the mountain
Funny. I, almost verbatim, made the same comment!
@@Ar1AnX1xcorner 9 3/4
@@Ar1AnX1x Shhh, that's the entrance to the Batcave...
What I don’t understand is how Ford can make the GT350r and the Gt500 with great steering feel and not extend that to all the GTS and Dark Horse . You are not the first reviewers to comment on the lack of steering feel.
I'll be honest I think they're saving that for the track day specials.... So as far as this new generation is I would keep an eye on the GTD and on the variants based on it.
650 is more of a luxury GT cruiser. I have owned 550 and 650 and am ok with this new approach since I use it as my daily
@@michaelmcdonald9847 The S650 was not designed for performance enthusiasts. It was designed for meriting and sales. The focus group was Gen Z. It was designed to attract Challenger, Mustang, and Camaro buyers all at once. Giving people the performance of a Challenger while mimicking the interior of a BMW to attract BMW buyers. That's why it had an abysmal reception amongst performance enthusiasts. Oh and it's a Fully Networked Vehicle from Ford...always online providing driver data and information to Ford. Who knows what they do with the data.
Those are Shelby cars. This is basically an upgraded Mustang GT. Like Mach 1 is compared to GT350. Similar, but not quiet as good overall. But honestly, all great cars. I just can’t believe how expensive the new Mustangs are. “Upgraded” Mustang GT aka Dark Horse costs the same as Camaro ZL1. Definitely overpriced. You’ll probably be able to get them with discounts down the line, like Mach 1 (not everywhere of course).
I think because it's a new chassis and the steering system itself is probably different from that generation of Mustang
I really appreciated Zacks dedication to steering feel.
The GT350 is probably one of the best setup cars you could drive off the dealer lot. It was fantastic to own, daily, and track. That said, definitely the engine was a concern. I had to get a new long block and after learning other issues I decided to get rid of it. This might make me come back to blue oval ...
try c7 grand sport/z51, ss 1le, ct4v blackwing. All amazing cars with 0 modifications
@@BMWho Funny you should say that. I am actually looking at a c7 GS tomorrow. I didn't realize they are dry sumped. On paper they seem really hard to beat.
Would you mind elaborating on the Voodoo engine issues? Had a 2019 GT350 and had to sell it. A huge regret and I want another one. But haven’t followed on long term issues
@@ericdoyne7957 All high revving engines are prone to rod bearing issues. Mine, as well as most others spun a rod bearing. All factory with no modifications. There is no recommended rod bearing refresh per hour of track time or road miles given by Ford. They just chalk it up to a assembly defect. When mine was warrantied it was shipped with 20+ others to the USA ... All of them for warranty replacements... Additionally due to the large amount of vibration caused by the engine the crank snout is prone to cracking, pretty badly too. Enough to necessitate a new crank if you catch the cracking in time. I think it's a combination of things imo. It's a "flat plane crank" with a cross plane crank firing order... So did we really get something super special? I don't know but I'm leaning not really. Lastly one of the big mods done to the voodoo is to convert it to cross plane crank. Every one that has done so is still up and running as far as I am aware.
@@850t5m thanks for the amazing Intel. Sad to hear and lucky I sold mine without issue. I’m a lifelong Mustang fan and it was a dream for me.
Cricket’s cameo made that ad worth watching!
Immediately hit the thumbs up when I saw Cricket
Got a 23 roush supercharged for almost same as dark horse .like new dark horse but 750hp with lower staggered wheels and new grill with 1.9 % for 72 months was hard to pass. So far love my 1st mustang .had a Camaro ss and a 392 Durango but you can’t go wrong with supercharged 5.0 sounds amazing with H pipe crackles and pops .
Not a fan of the "All-New" (refreshed) Mustang... but I can't deny the sound the Coyote engine makes is Glorious!
You make an excellent point about the screens: unlike many other cars, they are actually customizable and aren’t just static images
I have a suspicion that the steering feel is muted on purpose with those massive sticky bois up front and aggressive alignment. Otherwise the masses would complain about fighting the steering wheel constantly.
Two things to listen/watch for: Zack imitating a horse's snort/snicker and Matt making the fingers-to-mouth kissing gesture with his hand rotated 90 degrees from supinated, thus making it look like he's smoking a joint.
You guys got some great shots on this one. Multiple on car angles, far away landscapes, flybys. Great vid as always but the cinematography stood out!
I’ve been using the Aeropress for over two years, thanks to your ads. Never would have heard of it otherwise. It’s the only way to go!
Although mostly into Japanese cars, am super excited for these! Definitely love the looks and track-ability but definitely surprised it isn’t as communicative, are cars headed that way more and more? Either way, love it and looking forward to a GT350 comparison if possible!
Seems like Porsche and Mazda are the only two companies who bothered to try and make decent EPS systems
@@papa_pt 100% agree! Pretty sad, although I know EPS is tough in general.
No. It's just this Dork Horse (S650s) that lacks the important steering feeling. Other Mustangs don't have this issue.
@@papa_ptthe Camaro SS has good steering feeling and Tremec transmission in their V8s
@@jmm1174 good point. I was about to add Cadillac to that list
Sadly I've only been in the 2011 and never got to test drive one of the newer gen Camaro
As a Canadian it’s always funny to see someone in California wearing a toque & winter wear. Blood gets thin living out there I guess, when it hits-40 up here it could literally kill a west coaster lol jealous and would rather be there 🇺🇸
The S650 has been out for a little bit now and the styling hasn't grown on me. I tried to give it some time for my brain to adjust, but my instant reaction to seeing them in person is yuck. The S550 was a prettier design all around.
Agreed. I think ford made the 650 more muscle-y to appease the Camaro and challenger fans since they no longer have theirs. I get why Ford did it, but I think the 550 looks better
I'll take, a 69', Fox-Body, SN95, S197, S550 any day of the week over this. I hated it when I saw it the first time and I hate it now.
Yeah I wish they built on the muscular curves of the S550 more instead of making this thing so angular. It doesn’t do it any justice. The big ass screens, functional as they are, also take away from the character of the car imo.
@@romanovmarkelyon1021lies here y’all are watching another s650 video. Again. 😂
@@joshlamar1990 don’t you got some rap channels to troll
Owned a GT350 for many years. Of those years, many of them also included a 991 GT3. There is no comparison when it comes to size. Great car for $60,000 GT350 was in 2016 but Porsche was/is worth 3X more (and I actually think its worth more than Porsche charges for it). I sold it eventually as nostalgia wore off and the engine was a liability.
Good review and comparison gentlemen. I recently picked up a Gen 2 engine (fingers crossed lol) GT350 and I love it. Coming from a 03 Mach 1 the GT350 retains the steering feedback that I like but it's light years ahead in handling, braking, power etc. I personally like the aggressive looks compared to the smoother design of the new Dark Horse/S650 as well.
I just got a 2020 GT350 over a Dark Horse as well (also fingers crossed lol). So far it’s been phenomenal, I just couldn’t justify the current Dark Horse prices for what is essentially still a “Mustang”
@topher9671 very nice and agreed. Mine is a 2019 with 13k miles, essentially a new car to me anyways.
Great video. Regarding the tendency of the front to dart around, so much of that is down to the tire compound itself. I have a '19 GT PP2 that came with 305 Cup 2s all around. Simply switching to the PS4S once those burned off (quickly lol) eliminated that on most road surfaces - it's only noticeable on the roughest of roads now, and for canyon/mountain roads there's still a shit load of grip. Overall though, I'm very glad I got my PP2 when I did instead of waiting for the S650
Your PP2 is way faster than the PP s650. I don’t think Ford will make a PP2 on the s650 since they barely sold on the s550
PS4S rules
Don't let go of that PP2. Very rare, and great performing.
At 5:50 you can see on the skidmarks that somebody had a really bad experience (tangent off into the side of the hill.....) :-O
Anyone notice the skid marks right into the stone wall at about 6:00?
I had a 2019 pp1. Now i have the Dark Horse. To me night a day difference. Dark horse is superior car by far. Im enjoying it. People love it. People ask me if the can take a pic ive been filmed driving on freeway go figure! (Justtryingtoenjoylifewhileim here)
i'll probably see what Shelby Ford comes up with again on the 650 platform. i am sort of leaning towards a 5.0 in the future though because this Voodoo motor while it is very special it's also very expensive to replace and fix, thank the gods for warranty, I added another 3 years for peace of mind but now it HAS to stay stock =(
Was cross shopping used gt350’s (19’s and up) against new SS 1le’s. Went with the 1le because of the reason you stated.
I’ve tried with Mustang, but it honestly feels like you’re driving a boat. It really is such a big car.
Hogwash
After coming from a 370z you're right but compared to my 70 challenger you're wrong all perspective
You know what else is fun? The Cybertruck making Matt eat his words
I remember test driving a GT350 and another time a GT350R and not being terribly impressed by the steering feel so if this is far worse that's quite sad. I much preferred the rack in the C7 Grand Sport over any of the Mustangs.
love the green cabinets in ur kitchen matt
I can’t believe how a GT with performance pack and a few other options are 60k dollars … crazyyyy
Good informative review. I previously owned a ‘19 GT350 and now have a ‘21 Mach 1. The latter seems like the sweet spot.
Exactly. All the GT350 performance with reliability. Ford knew exactly what they were doing. They tried to reinvent the wheel with Gen Z input for the Dork Horse. Big fail.😊
What made you switch to the Mach 1?
Was there anything you disliked about the GT350 that made you switch? Whats better about the mach?
Not gonna lie. I like the new Dark Horse or at least the exterior. The dash setup inside kinda sucks. So I headed down to my local dealer for a look. 80-90k for this car in Canada when I can still pick up very low miles GT 5.0s only a year or two old for around 40-50k all day long. It's not worth the extra coin. No thanks 👎
When I see this new cars I’m going to stick with my 07 Shelby GT500. Nice review 👍
Cricket appreciation post.
Would take a used Mach 1 with the handling package and manual over this 7 days a week.
So would I.
I love my DH and im coming from a kia stinger. So im lost in steering feel debate because i feel the road just fine. But to address the steering feel. The car is like that so that everyone can get in and enjoy the car. For as good as the 350 was.. most people do not drive that car alot and some barely have 20k in 7 yrs. I feel this that if i have to wait until my car tells me its losing control, then ive failed as a driver. I didn’t plan, scan the road accordingly, plan how to deal with low temps, and predict what i want my car to do. But i don't think these cars are "duds". I think they improved on the suspension part of the car and it feels more connected than when i drove a s550. The main issue with the car is inflation and greedy dealerships. Other thsn that the car is an improvement to me. Lol you think the DH cost alot. Oh boy just wait until the gt500 comes out😂. 20k-30k minimum for a 100k car maked up.
Hard to ever surpass the 350 perfect balance, looks and that amazing engine that sings like no other.
I really enjoy the edit adjustments you did. Split the ad? Smart!! Show off all the camera angles on car in the start? Dig it!
And the cat in the ad? 10/10
Good to see Matt has a decent coffee grinder as well (baratza).
My 350 has 30k miles, never a single issue though I do need to replace the cheap plastic valve covers (though the gt had those too). I can’t imagine replacing it nowadays. It seems like anything that’s going to be as engaging is going to be 2x the price. I’ve considered buying a daily to reduce the 350 miles but I don’t even drive enough these days to justify it.
Sucks the steering is so numb. Can Ford really not sacrifice 1 mph and use a hydraulic rack?
I still wanna drive one
Bring back real gauges already. Enough of these dumbass screens everywhere.
Agree.....the most tech that you needed was 2013
@michaeltabanao8092 for u but the digital cluster in my 20 gt kicks ass not this 7th gen 🤢🤮
That business coffee mug is amazing!
Had a '16 GT350. Engine seized in that one w/ only 3K on it. Got a '17 under warranty, lost faith that the engine would pop in that one and sold it. It was the best NA V8 I've ever experienced however. Threw my hat in for a GTD, may pick up a Dark Horse for DD.
I have a ‘17 GT350
Just turned 6,000 miles on it this month.
I do spirited driving, but don’t abuse it. 🤷🏻♂️
@@craig.encinitas There's a class action lawsuit against Ford over the 5.2. The engine fails due to harmonics issues with the flat plane crank - a google search will show countless failures, many of which happen on the street and at very low miles.
Matt killed the mics with the track mode bump. 😂 Nice review boys, agree on all points. But it’s a little heavy, a little pricey and the lack of steering feel would be seriously disappointing.
*That dual intake is an inspiration for a twin-turbo setup.*
It's for emissions, nothing more. Any forced induction set up uses a single TB.
@@JR10_RRthat's not even true... Shut the fuck up ..
@@JR10_RRDude doesn't understand how turbos are mounted.
Dunno if I can mention the ip here but I really would like to see the Mach 1 vir lightning lap vs this.. I got a feeling the Mach 1 is still the more elite mustang. But I still say thanks to Ford for giving us a new gen mustang. Nothing wrong with the s550 chassis maybe cool it with the looks for the mid cycle refresh..
Wouldn’t mind having one. I think it looks better than the S550 Mach 1 and likely more reliable than a GT350 at the track. The Coyote is damn near bulletproof.
Agreed
Dang, I ended up getting a 2023 Mach 1 HP cuz I thought the new DH was hideous
I've never been a Mustang guy, but this one looks good
I'm a die-hard Mustang guy, grew up around Porsche and BMW. I'd also go with an M2 or Caymen. I can't understand the massive weight of the big 3s muscle cars today. Anyway, if I had the money I'd grab a 350R with all Speedkore parts that seems to be the lightest and nicest combo imo.
Dealers are charging 100k for a dud.
While I won't call it a dud...there are dealers here in Northwest Aekansas charging $25k markups for a Darkhorse
Only a 550 owner would call this car a dud 😂
it's a dud, dude
Every single car review complains about electronic power steering, every single one. Demand these car manufacturers bring back hydraulic steering.
More steering feel from racing simulators 😅
Tells you all you need to know about the “new” Stang. I’ll stick with the Camaro SS 1LE as it bows out uncontested in steering feedback, chassis balance and performance.
Kind of sad. People thought eps tuning would get better but doesn't seem like it. My ss 1le was an amazing car but the steering was ok for EPS but nothing special even compared to a ~$1500 3 series sedan.
I loved mine while I had it, it was nearly the perfect car. I’d honestly say it had better steering/chassis feel than my ND2 Miata which weighs like 1400 lbs less
Clutch, shifter, brakes were amazing.
The viability was the only thing I really didn’t like other than the running costs and electronic parking brake. You get used to the tank feel, but it definitely spoils the fun, especially on narrow canyon roads.
They were such a steal though….it was the hood rich man’s Cayman lol
The skid marks right into the cliff wall gave me the willies
It's a glorified Mustang GT with a GT500 price tag. Tell Ford their customers want their Supercharger they are paying for.
I'm sorry but I have to say it, The S550's look way Meaner and sexier at the same time.. Shifter's need to be upgraded but once you do a Barton or an MGW your fine..
Filming an aero press ad with other coffee makers behind you is insane! Lol 😂
Love the kitchen colors! That kitchen looks like it's always a great experience!
Is the Dark Horse anywhere close to the C8? C8 prices are falling, and the Dark Horse is the same price as a 1LT C8. Hard for me not to spend a little more $ on a 2LT C8 over the Dark Horse. What are your thoughts?
Not in outright performance...and I say that as a mustang lover that has a 22 mach 1 sitting in the driveway right now. My 9th mustang. I've also had a 1lt 2019 c7 stingray with the 7 speed manual. Still the fastest stock car I've ever owned. The problem ford can't seem to comprehend is they increase hp every year by 20-30, but increase weight a few 100lbs too. Now we have a 4k pound dark horse thats STILL in the 12s, just like the first 2011 5.0 that was around 3600lbs is. The biggest issue is you can only get the c8 in an auto...but if you're strictly looking for pure performance, a base c8 will dog walk a dark horse EVERY SINGLE TIME, and thats a fact
@@jrvbamafan1 Thanks for your input. I actually ended up walking away from my Dark Horse in December. It was wrecked in shipping. The whole front underside was ripped off and the front bumper was loose. Dealer was not willing to come off price or fix it how I wanted. So I walked. So now C8 prices are still falling. I will find the one I want at the price I want at some point.
Ford Mustang peaked at GT350 and likely wont catch that lightning in a bottle ever again.
You lost me at 3900 and change. If i put a whipple on this it will be pushing 4200lbs before i even step foot in it, that's to much!
A low milage 2013 boss 302
So what you say about cybertruck now after they 've made it ?
How does it compare to a Camaro SS 1LE and the ZL1 1LE.
How's the Dark Horse performance compares to the Mach l and to the Camaro SS1LE?
I can empathize with the cat interfering with filming... 🤣🤣🤣
Voodoo alllll daayyy
The GT350R was made to beat the 14-15 Z28 Camaro which it did quite well. What's the purpose of the Dark Horse? Was it built to compete against the Black Panther ZL1? If so, I'd love to see that comparison.
Nah it was made as a tremmec tax
@6:14 this!!!! A lot of modern cars I've driven appear to have incredible turn in but at least half the reason is because I have almost NO idea what struggle the front tires are in. Or any change in effort I may need to put in.
I was waiting for this…all the other drivers tutorials on the Dark 🐎 it doesn’t seem to give it the smoking tire justice 💨💨💨💫💯
Someone tell Matt that the M2 now is actually bigger than the mustang
Was good to see you boys out there driving this, but I'm still GM all the way!
Honest reviews are always top notch. 🤙
It’s time for Ford to offer the tremec in the GT too, as a part of the performance pack.
It's way past time! My tr3650 in my 06 has been flawless at over 500hp.
@@mooosestangyup for sure. I get it’s a selling point but it’s just time. They can save that dual clutch for special edition Mustangs if they want an exclusive transmission.
Should be standard.....
Dark horse delight
You have the best sponsors I think
I really want to see the dark horse and the 2022 Saleen Mustang White label in a drag race
how is the fit and finish? the dark horse doug reviewed had big crooked panel gaps, it looked awful. Especially for a car that expensive.
Love that shot from across the canyon
Dig this sled, but that silly Greyhound-looking logo has to be axed. Leaning towards the Mach 1 for this very reason! 😆
They nailed the exhaust on this car. Also... The M2 is actually HEAVIER than this car... wow
My problem with the Dark Horse is low mile GT350R's for sale.
Wow... It's a Camaro/Mustang!
It's crazy to me that we are going to have to pay for Force Feedback on modern drive-by-wire systems once fully implemented. Feeling the road is half of driving when it comes to racing or at least being a driver's car.
How does it compare with an SS 1LE ??
I think the SS 1LE beats Dark Horse in terms of handling and price. But now SS 1LE is no longer in the market. Too bad.
The mid-life cycle updates to mustangs have only ever worked out aesthetically twice, for myself anyway, that was the Fox Body and S197
After that they're going the way of the KIA, start beautiful then they start F*****G with the lights!!! 😅
No way nothing worse than a cold steering wheel for me! I get chilblains very easily
Love me some Mustang, but I personally need way more refinement. Give me a 5.0, but with a smooth ride....oh wait. 😉 Another awesome review, thanks for posting!
When is the Tesla Cybertruck review coming or are you not reviewing because in your "expert" opinion it doesn't exist?
I don’t get how they can complain about steering feel but all the other reviews either say it’s fine or that they like it. Like how can car reviewers have such differing opinions on the same thing?
There is no GT PP2 for the S650 yet Matt. There is just the normal performance pack
I hecking LOVE my Aeropress. Let’s go! Also the thumbnail looks like you should be dropping some lumber in the bed of the Mustang. lol
"Is a great Mustang"- Sounds like.. He's a great Guy... but.... Thank you for the review, very Objective!!
i want the dark horse engine and transmission (10spd auto) in my 09 p71 with long tubes, a pro charger, k&n intake and 4.10 gears but way too broke af and it's way too much car vs the stock 4.6 2v v8
Hey everyone!! I'm making a trip this summer down to California and would love to drive this canyon road. Does anyone know what road this is or how to get there? Thanks guys
Same!
It looks too much like a Charger banged a Camaro. That thumbnail does not look like a Mustang.
@TheSmokingTire: ALAGAE MAY BE PRESENT. Hahaha, I love that sign and love that road. So, I have driven a 2023 G70 3.3 and a 2020 Civic Si on that road. I liked the steering feel in both those cars on that road. How do they compare to the Mustang Dark Horse in steering feel, if you know?
9:22 bump kills personal microphones :D
The marketing just isn’t there for me. Darkhorse? Give me an iconic name like Shelby again.
Hey guys, great review. Just FYI there is only one performance pack at this point, there is no pp1 or pp2 since the intro of the mach 1 in 2021. Also the gt with the performance pack also come with the torsen limited slip diff and k member. Not trying to be a dick. Just trying to help keep the info accurate.
5:50
those tire marks looks like it was a not a good time, damn
At 5:51 the tracks on the road say; Someone had a very bad day.
Seen that too ouch!!
Take me back to 80s+90s styling.. looks like another Honda
Great review as always. The boat parade continues.
I saw a Dark Horse model at the LA Auto Show last week. I am not feeling that this is really a generational shift. The styling is different from the S550. But not in a good way. I've seen a couple on the road and I thought they were Camaros. Especially the rear quarter side view. And the pricing is the biggest detractor for me. $72,000 for the premium model, handling package and Recaro seats. And this price is on Ford's website. I haven't been to a dealership to see the mark-up prices. I'll stick with my Fox body.
Remember mustang came first