Let's all take a moment to appreciate the fact that this is likely the LAST TIME three naturally aspirated, manual transmission icons face off like this.
Yep and remember it’s not by choice! People want to buy those cars! It’s politicians forcing car companies to stop building those beloved cars and they forcefully ruin the western auto industry. While the cheap and dangerous Chinese crap gets promoted, it’s just ridiculous and super scary..
You so right. When Thomas first brought James onboard after dropping that racecar driver , Thomas did all the drafts as James literally stood on the sideline and cheered Thomas on. James Cherry has been popped and he’s on the field and in the game now instead of just cheerlesding
Minute 2:04 when these bad ass American thumpers throw revs.. I’m gonna miss that soooo much. They all sound great and different. Mustangs have always owned the exhaust game with these 3 Titans though…
James buy the Dark Horse if you really want to get Thomas’ goat… I watched this again. Ok I’ve watched it 5 times but that’s not why I’m here. I can appreciate you really like this Stang. You genuinely do and it was shining through. Thomas does prefer the 1LE , we all know this as he reminded us in this video again by not just saying the Camaro has better gearbox and feel and is more engaging etc but he emphasized how much better it is “it’s not NEARLY as good as the Camaro” come on Thomas. These two Mustangs are excellent cars and I’m sorry, they are truly quite engaging…Unlike most car review channels , which mainly agree with each other and especially on the 1LE since everyone in media just says 1LE as if it’s the answer to everything. Full bias everytime with preconceived victor no matter what. However, you really liked this DH. I say you buy it. Buy the damn thing and flex on every 1LE you pass…
James is hilarious! Goes from: "Go dark horse! Yeahhhhhh! Monstahhhh! 500 horse power!" to "Whooo, that was scary. Losing traction. I'm a father now, I can't be doing that." to "Let’s do that again." all in less than 30 secs.
That in sync reaction to the brakes at 5:15 was probably the most genuine reaction to good brakes that is severely underrated in these types of high horsepower type of cars.
It doesn’t matter which car wins the drag race, they’re all winners in my book. Farewell beautiful V8 manual trans cars. You sound amazing, you’re fun to drive, and you’ve given so many of us amazing entertainment for many decades. So long.
@@OGbobbylocdogg Hell yeah... everybody get excited for boring electric toaster races... here's my face of adulting excitement: T___T ...(I wish I could exit this life)
Watching this video just shows how far James has come as a driver. When I first started watching your guy stuff I feel like I could definitely take him as far as driving goes. But now he may have the edge on me. Way to go James.
Yeah, the marketing guys at Ford were smoking some good stuff that day. If the Dark Horse Premium was 80k US all in (Handling Pack, Recaros, CF Wheels, M6 trans and Painted stripes) it would be a pretty good deal, but that car is 91k and at the bottom end if the regular Dark Horse with Handling Pack was 55k out the door it would be a good deal as well. The comparable car from GM (2SS w/ 1LE package) is 56k which is about where the DH-P should be maybe 59k (and adding the CF wheels >handling pack required
Yeah what were they thinking its faster on the track than a ZL1 1LE chevy's top Camaro with all the track stuff and sticky tires. The non handling pack Dark Horse is the faster straight line car it does not have the areo big wing to slow it down. Just wait to the track version of the GT500 comes out it will be game over. Since the old GT500 with the carbon fibre track pack smokes any Camaro on track or in the straight line per Motor Trend.
This just goes to show how amazingly good the Alpha platform was in the 6th gen Camaro. It's still to this day the best track car for the money within the segement. Sad to see such a great performance car go.
Watching these three titans of muscle go head-to-head is like witnessing the end of an era. The LT1 keeps up with the Dark Horse, and you save $20K! 💸 It's bittersweet knowing this might be their last showdown as new cars. Anyone else wish we could've seen the Mach1 tackle the track with the Dark Horse's wheel setup? Major kudos for this nostalgic ride, guys! 👏🚗💨 #EndOfAnEra
@@tcd42019 will definitely give you the cost factor, but don't kid yourself. Randy Pobst ran the Mach 1 and the SS 1LE on the same tire and the Mach 1 smoked it
I'm really going to miss these comparos of V8 rear wheel drive pony cars, especially the Camaro vs. Mustang. I grew up watching these battles on MotorWeek in the 80's and 90's. I really will miss these cars trading punches on the track and dragstrip.
To be faster then a M2CS for almost $100k and right under a M5CS which is well over $100k at $61k+ is seriously impressive. I'm not a huge fan of American cars but the dark horse is really nice!
@@norwegianblue2017 oh yeah! That thing breaks the laws of physics. It's absurd. But it's also quite pricey haha. For $61k the dark horse is a serious "bang for buck"... I wonder how much better it can be if you do some light mods and more weight reduction
This track is suited for a car like this Dark Horse. Its a small track with hardly any real straights. Put the Dark Horse on a real track like VIR where Car and Driver does the Lightning Lap, the ZL1 and the ZL1 1LE will still outpace the Dark Horse. Still great to see how well the Dark Horse does but it's always more apples to apples "comparison" if all vehicles have the exact same tires. I need to lookup these tires the Dark Horse has and see how they compare to the SC3/SC3r and Sport Cup 2.
And its worth the money because there are 100'000's of the Camaros and the Dark Horse is a very limited edition that will appreciate much more than the Camaro
@@anthonylong5870but the equivalent of the rare dark horse trim in the camaro is equally rare and would walk the mustang. I'd say the zl1 isn't fair to compare it to but...
Only electric, fascist politics force western car manufacturers to only sell cars nobody wants and basically selfdestruct while China produces more pollution and co2 than the rest of the world combined and they are laughing about us stupid westerners they will soon enslave.. It’s absolutely disgusting! Inform yourself about China, it’s the most fascist country on this planet and Xi already killed more innocent people in his genocide against the Uighur than Hitler did! Only Mao killed more people and oh he also was a fascist Chinese..
That's what disappointed me with newer Top Gear and The Grand Tour. For an unscripted show, it sure felt scripted. This still feels as though they're flying by the seat of their pants.
I am curious to see which one is faster around a track, although the differences in tires between all of them presents challenges. I believe the Mach 1 with the track pack and GT350R would be on the same cup 2's so probably evenly matched (with respect to tires.) However, I am most interested in seeing which one is most engaging. After watching the video, my choice would the Mach 1 from the comments Thomas said, that's why I am curious how it stacks against the gt350r.
I can't be the only one who prefers the look of the previous gen Mustang...inside and out. It just looks like the natural evolution of the original mustang while the new one has hints of GM about it in some ways. In any case, it's very sad cars like this are going away...and it's not for the reasons we're being spoonfed😤
@@jbruce8633 I know Ford had to make it different enough to seem like an all new generation, but to my eyes the little tweaks they made during the lifespan of the last gen got the stang looking near perfect. I think they should have stayed the course and simply made further minor tweaks instead of going for an all new look. It really stood out to me when they had both gens parked next to each other. To me the current Mustang looks like Ford hired a bunch of GM stylists...and maybe they did since GM is getting out of the car business altogether while Ford is still hanging on with at least one? Idk man...just wish the new gen looked better.
How Dodge can manage to make a *Coupe* that weighs almost 4,400lbs in 2023 is beyond me. It's like they don't even try and make everything out of old-school iron, including the seats and body panels. I've had 4WD mid-sized SUV's that weigh less.
And that dodge is realistically running on 2013-2015 tech as far as drivetrain is concerned….. I should know…. I drive a charger and have spent way too much money upgrading it cuz dodge cheaped out on their cars
Truly sad that this is the last year these 3 exist as new cars together. Really would have liked to see the Mach1 do a lap with the Dark Horse wheel / tire combo. Great video guys!
@@teemeaux3830 The Dark Horse wasn't even around when the Mach 1 originally came out, so I find what you said hard to believe. More than likely, it was just a strict corporate policy made by some uptight pencil pusher at Ford.
The challenger is the only one of these not trying to be a sports car. It is unapologetically a muscle car I feel like people often overlook that in the comparison. They are all awesome in their own right and it’s a shame to see dodge and Chevrolet’s offerings go away but those of us that have one of them won’t let them be forgotten.
That's because the big fat challenger is a muscle car. The Camaro and the mustang have never been muscle cars. They are pony cars, and have always been pony cars.
@@Stevie4171true, cant help but look any time i see an SS. Something about it makes it way more imposing. Idk what it is specifically because im not too familiar with what the SS package gives you. But they’re definitely sick
Do u mean FoundOnRoadDead? I smoke 'em for a snack-like I do to Corvettes. Been doing it since age 12. Didn't matter if my car wasn't as fast either! Currently driving Charger Scat Pack Widebody 392. Only bought a Dodge to make a nice profit after Dodge switches to electric cars. Already getting offers a LOT higher than what I paid for it! Thanks Dodge for the extra green coming soon!
It’s happened before. Mustang just competed with foreign cars (Nissan Z) until the other 2 came back. Now we’re back to the Mustang going back to that and dipping it’s toes against other luxury performance cars in the price range.
Ouch... as soon as I saw the stock 245's on the LT1 I knew it was going to not be great for the Camaro, lol. We have 1LE replica wheels on the way for my wife's LT1. It'll be 305 rear 285 front.
What an absolute 🤡 thing to say Their lap times are garbage and don't even come relatively close to being accurate. Get a real driver (like the REAL Top Gear did) or don't do lap times at all😂
Drag race and roll race results as expected, but the most impressive to me was how close the 400-700 lb heavier Challenger was not that far behind. Hell, the aerial overview shows how much larger it is.
You guys are "gold." So much fun to watch, and listen, to you guys. Thanks for making this awesome content and taking some of the "boring" out of my life.
Anytime a new Throttle House video comes out I always hit the like button before even watching the video. I know that it’s going to be awesome before it even starts.
Lol. It’s completely insane how the Camaro’s design still looks brand new next to that brand new redesigned Ford Mustang! Timeless design for sure! 🔥 💨
Great video as usual. I agree with Thomas, these laptop display gauge clusters won't age well. I do see the need for them, but integrate them in a well designed cluster that compliments the rest of the interior instead of the almost vertical rectangle. The Audi E-Tron GT comes to mind.
Really good video, as usual. Seeing the 21 Mach1 next to the dark horse, the Mach1 has a cleaner look do it. Interesting for all the performance added to the dark horse; apparently simply a focus on reducing weight would have been time and money better spent.... kudos to Ford for developing the DOHC 5.0 V8 to get it to where it is today. With a rear seat delete it would seem a Dark Horse Mustang could be right there with a BMW M8 CS, and perhaps a bit past it.
I know it's a boat and it's never going to the quickest thing around, but I love my challenger. Massive trunk, usable back seats, enough power to be a bit of a hooligan when I want to be, and I get compliments on it all the time even though there are a million of em out there.
The real star of the show here are those brand new Trofeo RS tires. I've only ever seen them on the Pagani Utopia, and they're a telling sign of the future of tire tech. Those tires allowed the 4000 lb Dark Horse to stop shorter than any car in Motortrend testing history, beating out the GT2 RS and Viper ACR, and likely trade blows with Cup 2 Rs in various performance areas.
Even though Thomas spoke to how good they are, it still seems wildly understated. Besting a ZL1 1LE is an incredible feat, so good, the GT500 CFTPs usually can't, and yet here a heavier Dark Horse did just that (not same day, I understand that). Those tires are game changers.
We need a same tire same day test with zl1 1le and ss 1le as well. If those tires are that sticky there will be a good amount of time saving on that road coarse
There's no big secret to it. If you understand the basic principles of engineering that is... A pushrod engine can have exactly the same cam lift and duration as an overhead, and in fact the only penalty is weight. It's actually less complex as the connecting rods are precision machined, so potentially can be more accurate than a belt or chain. The only better system is the Ducati Desmo valve system in terms of accuracy, but it sacrifices a lot of simplicity to achieve it.
GREAT content as always TH! I'm SO happy that the Mach 1 finally got a proper run around your track. As a Mach 1 owner who uses it as a daily driver, I was happy to see it perform as well as an M2, and better than an SS 1LE, a C8 Z51, and even a Cayman GTS 4.0. That's some pretty impressive company for a 3800+ lb pony car that's traditionally been known as a "grand tourer" instead of a true track car. It would have been interesting though to see the Mach 1's track time if you borrowed the Trofeo RS tires from the Dark Horse and took it around one more time.
Mach1 was never a grand tourer by any means... Stock would probably be tie/slower than SS1LE, we dont know alignment specs and so on, but probably it's way better dialed than DH. Wait for Lighting Lap 2024 to find out how faster DH is against stock Mach1.
Did you watch the Video they had the times listed both the Mach 1 and Dark Horse were faster than any of the Camaro's period. Dark Horse was even faster then ZL1 1le and C8.
Glad we finally got to see the Mach 1 on the track and it put up an impressive number. For those of us who are not sold on the S650 platform, the Mach 1 looks like the way to go. Oh, and the Dark Horse had a nice lap as well. Great job fellas, you nailed it once again.
Yeah was real happy to see Mach 1 S550 vs... Mach 1 S650 finally. Numbers are what I'd expected. While the Dark Horse has better tires, the Mach 1 has the seat delete, so in the end they're basically the same for most part... which is basically what they are. New gen Voodoo please?
@@teemeaux3830 yeah, rear seat weighs 50lbs max. These cars weigh roughly the same 3868 for the Mach 1 and 3879 for the Dark Horse. The fact that he says the Mach 1 feels way lighter speaks volumes to me.
What a great video all 3 did well 392 hasn't seen a big refresh since it came out in 2011 just the 10 hp gain in 2015 and didn't do bad considering we're on the 4th gen of coyote and the camaro recieved the lt1 back in 2016 but most of all props to ford for keeping the American muscle car alive
You’re right the Mustang has gotten too big and heavy. I prefer a lighter and more nimble car. Porsche Cayman is the best but sadly it’s gotten too expensive! The Supra is also right there but they are very hard to get. I purchased a Miata RF manual and it’s great fun and very therapeutic. It’s handling on curvy roads is unique and it’s affordability is nice!
I actually wonder how they positioned the dark horse: under GT350 or above. Because they represented this as the road going version Mustang GT3 while previous GT350's were nearest Mustang to GT3's.
This goes to show how good the 6th gen Camaro alpha platform is. It was basically as fast as the mustang but with less power. Weight really makes a huge difference as well.
@@llamaking1453 Its a sports car. You dont need to see out of it. 😂. Also the Camaro isnt ugly. The refresh was just polarizing at first but they look better in IRL. you cant say the zl1 is ugly.
@@MakingItHappenMWC Sadly, TH picked the ugliest Mach 1 in Canada. Is it even a real Handling Pack? The M1 is by far the better option compared to the Dead Horse, but for the overall money, the ZL1 cannot be beat.
Yeah, it can keep up with the Dark Horse sorta kinda...in a straight line. For that purpose though, you can buy a cheap C5, C6 corvette, and with some mods they will be quicker than that mustang
Cudos to Ford for making the ultimate push to the Mustang as the sun sets on American V8 manual sports coupes. The only negative I see with the DH is the screens on the dash.
The GT and the Dark Horse use different 6-speed transmissions. The GT uses the Getrag MT-82 and the Dark Horse uses the Tremec TR-3160. Hence the shifting differences in the two cars.
I'm a Chevy guy who likes all three. The Challenger IMO is the best looking and looks like a true muscle car, that's' why I own one. I had a 70 Plymouth that I loved. There's just something about Mopar that does it for me.
I think it would be awesome if a tire brand would sponsor a video so you guys could put better tires on cars that have already been around your track to see the difference it makes
3 weeks ago I bought a Mach 1 HP. I assumed that as the DH was finally making its way to showroom floors that there would be Mach 1 owners who would have to have one regardless of the price and dump theirs for a significant loss just to have the latest model. I'm feeling pretty good about that decision right about now.
This became my favourite car channel, you guys make an extraordinary good job! These Lap Time Track tests are just great. I would like to see such a test with a Corvette C7 Grand Sport, maybe in the near future you get this car and can test it to a 911 or Corvette C8 :) Greetings from Germany.
That was so incredibly engaging and exciting to watch! I loved that video! I have and love my Gen 7 GT convertible pp and now I know where it stands compared to DH. I think these guys are exactly the energy every car review and comparison needs! You’ve got another subscriber!
My guess would be up there with the PP2 Mustang from the last track video they had. Granted it has everything that the RS 1LE has plus the V8 so it might actually be quicker than that Mustang.
@@1k_vonteliterally and it has 50 less hp and not even on a track package like the scat pack or the dark horse. ford had to boost their 5.0 bc the basic one couldn’t even compete with the ss😮💨
Let's all take a moment to appreciate the fact that this is likely the LAST TIME three naturally aspirated, manual transmission icons face off like this.
Thanks for the depression 😞
And it goes in this order...Camaro, Challenger and last, S650 Mustang. The newest one is the worst option. Sadly.
EV will fail they’ll all be back when the government quits pushing electric
Yep and remember it’s not by choice!
People want to buy those cars!
It’s politicians forcing car companies to stop building those beloved cars and they forcefully ruin the western auto industry.
While the cheap and dangerous Chinese crap gets promoted, it’s just ridiculous and super scary..
Yes it's both sad and an absolutely disgusting extinction event!
It's been genuinely impressive watching James' driving skills improve over the years. He's a ripper now!
i remember watching him drive a gt3 being worried lmfao
You so right. When Thomas first brought James onboard after dropping that racecar driver , Thomas did all the drafts as James literally stood on the sideline and cheered Thomas on. James Cherry has been popped and he’s on the field and in the game now instead of just cheerlesding
Minute 2:04 when these bad ass American thumpers throw revs.. I’m gonna miss that soooo much. They all sound great and different. Mustangs have always owned the exhaust game with these 3 Titans though…
Whoever was driving that Dodge deserves mad props. He was way closer than snd Dodge should ever be from a dog against these two..
James buy the Dark Horse if you really want to get Thomas’ goat…
I watched this again. Ok I’ve watched it 5 times but that’s not why I’m here. I can appreciate you really like this Stang. You genuinely do and it was shining through. Thomas does prefer the 1LE , we all know this as he reminded us in this video again by not just saying the Camaro has better gearbox and feel and is more engaging etc but he emphasized how much better it is “it’s not NEARLY as good as the Camaro” come on Thomas. These two Mustangs are excellent cars and I’m sorry, they are truly quite engaging…Unlike most car review channels , which mainly agree with each other and especially on the 1LE since everyone in media just says 1LE as if it’s the answer to everything. Full bias everytime with preconceived victor no matter what. However, you really liked this DH. I say you buy it. Buy the damn thing and flex on every 1LE you pass…
James is hilarious! Goes from: "Go dark horse! Yeahhhhhh! Monstahhhh! 500 horse power!" to "Whooo, that was scary. Losing traction. I'm a father now, I can't be doing that." to "Let’s do that again." all in less than 30 secs.
The power of thrust
😂 That Dark Horse must be a floaty, poor handling beast. Ford definitely tried to fill the gap left by the Challenger Scatpack with the S650s.
Was he singing Katy Perry while drag racing?
hahah yea I noticed that. Also said earlier "can I get an F in the chat" when talking about Carson getting married. Legend 😂@@JCintheBCC
lol I was just about to comment thus. Dude is hilarious and the katy perry quote lol.
It’s so painful being a car person without the funds to be a car person.
It really is
Man, what you said.
Amen
Facts on top of Facts❤
Miata calls you😈
The owner should be PROUD of how you tossed that car around the track. My lord. I'm proud on their behalf. Well done as always, gentlemen. o7
That in sync reaction to the brakes at 5:15 was probably the most genuine reaction to good brakes that is severely underrated in these types of high horsepower type of cars.
Had my zl1 brakes save my life the other day
It doesn’t matter which car wins the drag race, they’re all winners in my book. Farewell beautiful V8 manual trans cars. You sound amazing, you’re fun to drive, and you’ve given so many of us amazing entertainment for many decades. So long.
Gotta make a choice. Man up! Kiddie time is over!
@@OGbobbylocdogg Hell yeah... everybody get excited for boring electric toaster races... here's my face of adulting excitement: T___T ...(I wish I could exit this life)
honda civic designs styles japan made
I'm a Ford guy, and yeah.. all 3 are badass and can outrun each one another on any given day really..
I feel like people have been saying this for at least the last 5 years. Yet here we are, we still have large V8 American muscle cars with a manual
Hats off to the drone pilot! That chase footage from above was incredible
The stuffed goat in the backseat of the Dark Horse was a nice touch.
Also saw that 🤣
I feel like every car needs a mascot in the backseat 😅 mine is baby yoda
I peeped game too. Definitely a good idea
Courtesy of Ford Marketing department
I don't get it.
This is definitely an iconic trio
The ad break at 14:31 was just perfect. The timing was there, and yall saw the opportunity and took it.
What ad break?
Same bro! Instantly came to the comments to see if it was just me that got that ad lol
ad break? what?
Yall can't have revanced on ALL your devices can you?
Ya’ll didnt watch or skipped thru the video. There is an ad. 😅😂
Watching this video just shows how far James has come as a driver. When I first started watching your guy stuff I feel like I could definitely take him as far as driving goes. But now he may have the edge on me. Way to go James.
The three most iconic muscle cars facing up against each other
Sadly no gto to finish off
A challenger is an iconic muscle car??? 🤣 Iconic cars don't disappear for 25 years, they last.
Will always be legendary. Even if you only like one of the three ponies. Still gotta respect the legend of the three.
Put the new EV Charger up next to them and watch them all get smoked 😆
Who cares about a appliance ! Evs suck !
The LT1 is a remarkable value. It's amazing what it can do at just over half the price of the dark horse.
Weighs a shit ton less also
Yeah, the marketing guys at Ford were smoking some good stuff that day. If the Dark Horse Premium was 80k US all in (Handling Pack, Recaros, CF Wheels, M6 trans and Painted stripes) it would be a pretty good deal, but that car is 91k and at the bottom end if the regular Dark Horse with Handling Pack was 55k out the door it would be a good deal as well. The comparable car from GM (2SS w/ 1LE package) is 56k which is about where the DH-P should be maybe 59k (and adding the CF wheels >handling pack required
Yeah what were they thinking its faster on the track than a ZL1 1LE chevy's top Camaro with all the track stuff and sticky tires. The non handling pack Dark Horse is the faster straight line car it does not have the areo big wing to slow it down. Just wait to the track version of the GT500 comes out it will be game over. Since the old GT500 with the carbon fibre track pack smokes any Camaro on track or in the straight line per Motor Trend.
Not a Camaro fan overall but I agree.
@@lealandyoung had to be meth as good habberdash doesnt make you want to build & drive a mustang
So glad to see you boys enjoyed the Camaro 🚗💨
Come see us again some time!
Thank you for loaning them the camaro.
Can you loan me my dream car plz? 😂
Are those flappy paddle shifters on the camero?
The paddles on a manual camaro trigger rev match on and off only @@monophobia1885
@@monophobia1885 yes. On manual ones they are used to turn off and on the rev match.
This just goes to show how amazingly good the Alpha platform was in the 6th gen Camaro. It's still to this day the best track car for the money within the segement. Sad to see such a great performance car go.
I just really wish that they had addressed the side window situation. The lack of visibility has always been very uncomfortable for me
@@marcob1729 To change that, they would have needed to change the entire chassis, no?
@@1gbayfisher cadillac also used the alpha platform.
No
@@1gbayfisheryes lol
James singing Dark Horse while ripping it was truly amazing 💀
throttle house! y’all never fail to delivery no matter what car and whenever. thanks for some great content.
Watching these three titans of muscle go head-to-head is like witnessing the end of an era. The LT1 keeps up with the Dark Horse, and you save $20K! 💸 It's bittersweet knowing this might be their last showdown as new cars. Anyone else wish we could've seen the Mach1 tackle the track with the Dark Horse's wheel setup? Major kudos for this nostalgic ride, guys! 👏🚗💨 #EndOfAnEra
yea tthe fact Chevy and Dodge are bowing out is depressing. Atlest Ford took the Porsche stance and chose not to succumb too electrification entirely.
They won't do it because i think the mach1 will smash it
Put those same tires on any camaro even the base ss bet it smokes a dark horse this new mustang gen of cars is 💩 for how much they cost
@@tcd42019 will definitely give you the cost factor, but don't kid yourself. Randy Pobst ran the Mach 1 and the SS 1LE on the same tire and the Mach 1 smoked it
@@tcd42019 and i was referring to the Mach 1 smoking the Dark horse
I'm really going to miss these comparos of V8 rear wheel drive pony cars, especially the Camaro vs. Mustang. I grew up watching these battles on MotorWeek in the 80's and 90's. I really will miss these cars trading punches on the track and dragstrip.
To be faster then a M2CS for almost $100k and right under a M5CS which is well over $100k at $61k+ is seriously impressive. I'm not a huge fan of American cars but the dark horse is really nice!
The Dodge Viper ACR lap time still blows me away. 2.5s faster than the M5 CS. Even faster than a Porsche 911 GT3 w/ CUP2 tires.
@@norwegianblue2017 oh yeah! That thing breaks the laws of physics. It's absurd. But it's also quite pricey haha. For $61k the dark horse is a serious "bang for buck"... I wonder how much better it can be if you do some light mods and more weight reduction
DH in the video would cost you 75k+ though. HP is pricey.
i got a base model DH six speed with HP and recaros for 67.5k@@maximborodyuk3773
@@maximborodyuk3773 And it's still a bargain compared to the other vehicles it performs against.
I love James' comments on how he's a dad, can't do this anymore. Then immediately saying let's do it again!😂
Noone noticed this but a few! It was the best
21:18 "The Dark Horse should not be underestimated." Very clever fellas. I love it. Well done.
All THREE are amazing in their own way. Be thankful we still have these cars today.
By far the best motor channel on RUclips.. Best 2 hosts iv ever seen.. The whole vibes between them is insane 👌
You are correct sir.
"the dark horse should not be underestimated" is the best wrapup line I've ever heard
Exactly, it should be taken at face value. The only option left.
the price is all wrong. You can get a much better car for 61k
@@clancas01Toyota Camry hybrid
@@alexvranesich6774 Exactly!
Too bad dealerships have to marked up so insanely I won't even consider buying one.
The Dark Horse being faster around the track than a ZL1 1LE is genuinely astonishing.
Wish we got an unmoddified Mach 1 time but it is what it is.
Is it?
@@xiborgh Yes bc ZL1 1LE's multimatic suspension and 150 more hp.
This track is suited for a car like this Dark Horse. Its a small track with hardly any real straights. Put the Dark Horse on a real track like VIR where Car and Driver does the Lightning Lap, the ZL1 and the ZL1 1LE will still outpace the Dark Horse.
Still great to see how well the Dark Horse does but it's always more apples to apples "comparison" if all vehicles have the exact same tires. I need to lookup these tires the Dark Horse has and see how they compare to the SC3/SC3r and Sport Cup 2.
@@FLBoyCanScrap I didn’t see the full video. So impressive
@@joshualewis393 boost the dark horse then. The gt500 is faster than the 1le
The Darkhorse has 45 more HP than the LT1 and is double the price. I’m actually surprised the LT1 kept up with it, like it did. Very impressive!!
GM could build a good car just wasn’t marketed well
It's called torque. 40ft.lbs across the powerband with 300 less pounds makes a big difference.
The darkhorse is also fully loaded & a borderline muscle luxury vehicle lmfao
And its worth the money because there are 100'000's of the Camaros and the Dark Horse is a very limited edition that will appreciate much more than the Camaro
@@anthonylong5870but the equivalent of the rare dark horse trim in the camaro is equally rare and would walk the mustang. I'd say the zl1 isn't fair to compare it to but...
Love the Dark horse! Sad to see the other two gone once again. Hopefully they will make a comeback once again in the future. 🤙🏽
If they don’t go Hybrids yiu can kiss the sports car industry goodbye as we know it
Only electric, fascist politics force western car manufacturers to only sell cars nobody wants and basically selfdestruct while China produces more pollution and co2 than the rest of the world combined and they are laughing about us stupid westerners they will soon enslave..
It’s absolutely disgusting!
Inform yourself about China, it’s the most fascist country on this planet and Xi already killed more innocent people in his genocide against the Uighur than Hitler did!
Only Mao killed more people and oh he also was a fascist Chinese..
In ev version and v6 twin version yes
We need more Thomas and James, the chemistry is the closest thing to original top gear levels of entertainment
Well they do have another channel called Extra Throttle House for those looking for more.
That's what disappointed me with newer Top Gear and The Grand Tour. For an unscripted show, it sure felt scripted. This still feels as though they're flying by the seat of their pants.
Can never go wrong with Throttle house when it comes to races 💪🏽🔥
challenger is most comfortable, ive driven and sat in all 3, decided to permanently own the challenger after owning the others as rentals
Best Dark Horse video and comparison I’ve seen yet. I’d love to see how the dark horse stack up against a GT350 and a GT350R
I would like to see this as well along with the Mach 1. The gt350r is something special.
Faster around a track more than likely, the mach 1 was quicker than the gt350
It would be an amazing video to compare 350R with track alignment with mach1 and Dark horse set up the same with fresh tires.
I am curious to see which one is faster around a track, although the differences in tires between all of them presents challenges. I believe the Mach 1 with the track pack and GT350R would be on the same cup 2's so probably evenly matched (with respect to tires.) However, I am most interested in seeing which one is most engaging. After watching the video, my choice would the Mach 1 from the comments Thomas said, that's why I am curious how it stacks against the gt350r.
Hennessey raced them in a straight line. The R walked the DH.
The charisma of this channel is amazing! Definitely one of the very best on RUclips! Thank you for all your efforts, it is greatly appreciated!
I can't be the only one who prefers the look of the previous gen Mustang...inside and out. It just looks like the natural evolution of the original mustang while the new one has hints of GM about it in some ways. In any case, it's very sad cars like this are going away...and it's not for the reasons we're being spoonfed😤
No kidding! At first glance it looks like the Camaro front end, then from the side as well!
@@jbruce8633 I know Ford had to make it different enough to seem like an all new generation, but to my eyes the little tweaks they made during the lifespan of the last gen got the stang looking near perfect. I think they should have stayed the course and simply made further minor tweaks instead of going for an all new look. It really stood out to me when they had both gens parked next to each other. To me the current Mustang looks like Ford hired a bunch of GM stylists...and maybe they did since GM is getting out of the car business altogether while Ford is still hanging on with at least one? Idk man...just wish the new gen looked better.
How Dodge can manage to make a *Coupe* that weighs almost 4,400lbs in 2023 is beyond me. It's like they don't even try and make everything out of old-school iron, including the seats and body panels. I've had 4WD mid-sized SUV's that weigh less.
I was in a wreck that totaled my challenger and cannot stress how much I appreciate the strength of that frame
That Camaro is running on 2016 architecture, to hold up that well is impressive. Easy to add performance gains with cheap mods & it’s a monster.
And that dodge is realistically running on 2013-2015 tech as far as drivetrain is concerned….. I should know…. I drive a charger and have spent way too much money upgrading it cuz dodge cheaped out on their cars
Crazy to think that both the Camaro and the Scat are from 15-16ish in terms of Tech and Chassis
@@DaOldSchoolRapLova96the challenger chassis is older then that
Isn't the Mustang on the same platform as the old s550 back in 2015?
its a lt1 rs too not a ss
Truly sad that this is the last year these 3 exist as new cars together. Really would have liked to see the Mach1 do a lap with the Dark Horse wheel / tire combo. Great video guys!
Ford didn’t let people test the Mach. I think it’s cuz it’s prolly faster than the dark horse
@@teemeaux3830for the money id rather go for mach 1
@@teemeaux3830I agree. Weight says it all
@@teemeaux3830
The Dark Horse wasn't even around when the Mach 1 originally came out, so I find what you said hard to believe. More than likely, it was just a strict corporate policy made by some uptight pencil pusher at Ford.
@@CaseyCollier it’s called ford planning ahead. When the Mach was out they were developing the dh. Don’t be naive.
Essentially a driver's race with the manuals, which makes them so awesome.
The challenger is the only one of these not trying to be a sports car. It is unapologetically a muscle car I feel like people often overlook that in the comparison. They are all awesome in their own right and it’s a shame to see dodge and Chevrolet’s offerings go away but those of us that have one of them won’t let them be forgotten.
That's because the big fat challenger is a muscle car. The Camaro and the mustang have never been muscle cars. They are pony cars, and have always been pony cars.
@@AK_Rayhow about you ray? Are you a mustang owner?
@@jonnygun5055 I am not
@@AK_Raynot anymore
That was a rt
The Dark Horse Looks sick actually
it does look the best...especially in that roll up shot
Mustang is the coolest, Challenger looks the meanest, and the Camaro is dorky looking.
@@arthurwright255its the cheapest and it looks cool. Also it's faster than the "meaner" challenger.
@@arthurwright255lt1 looks worse than the ss.
@@Stevie4171true, cant help but look any time i see an SS. Something about it makes it way more imposing. Idk what it is specifically because im not too familiar with what the SS package gives you. But they’re definitely sick
I know I'm not a young side, but it's really hard for me to imagine a world without the Mustang competing against the Camaro and Challenger.
Do u mean FoundOnRoadDead? I smoke 'em for a snack-like I do to Corvettes. Been doing it since age 12. Didn't matter if my car wasn't as fast either! Currently driving Charger Scat Pack Widebody 392. Only bought a Dodge to make a nice profit after Dodge switches to electric cars. Already getting offers a LOT higher than what I paid for it! Thanks Dodge for the extra green coming soon!
It’s happened before. Mustang just competed with foreign cars (Nissan Z) until the other 2 came back. Now we’re back to the Mustang going back to that and dipping it’s toes against other luxury performance cars in the price range.
@@deborahwilson4684 are you all there?
@@deborahwilson4684I don’t think those corvettes are trying…
@@deborahwilson4684You are so cool
Ouch... as soon as I saw the stock 245's on the LT1 I knew it was going to not be great for the Camaro, lol. We have 1LE replica wheels on the way for my wife's LT1. It'll be 305 rear 285 front.
I absolutely love all 3 of these cars but this race played out exactly how i expected 😂👏
James adds so much character to TH. Love the guy
I’d like to see a GT350 vs Dark Horse comparison. Should be good!
Shoutout to the guy that lent his brand new $100K+ car to these guys to drag race and drift around a track.
The mustang is only like 70k
I have this exact dark horse available with recaro seats and 6 speed tremec for sale at sticker right now. New with 32miles
Lmao this guy 😂@NicholasRobertsvalleyford
The dodge challenger has such nice classic look. Looks absolutely badass.
It is still just an over powered lead sled that only goes straight!
God this channel deserves so much more recognition. Literally new age top gear man.
What an absolute 🤡 thing to say
Their lap times are garbage and don't even come relatively close to being accurate. Get a real driver (like the REAL Top Gear did) or don't do lap times at all😂
@@URsooomad8613 ok loser lmao
All of them have great engines! Glorious V8 and I´m proud to own one of these last V8 masterpieces (ZL1 6MT). Regards from a german petrol head!
I was not sure about the new Mustang design over the old one, but the Dark Horse looks so so good! wow 😍
It's a real shame that the Camaro going to be gone, at least as the way we know it for now. Great video by the way, as always. Thanks guys!
Drag race and roll race results as expected, but the most impressive to me was how close the 400-700 lb heavier Challenger was not that far behind. Hell, the aerial overview shows how much larger it is.
I would like to personally thank-you for that comment...
You guys are "gold." So much fun to watch, and listen, to you guys. Thanks for making this awesome content and taking some of the "boring" out of my life.
Mach 1 and dark horse - what a couple of absolute machines. Thomas put in some work with those lap times.
I'm always rooting for gm but something about seeing these three together just makes me smile
The Camaro being the 2nd fastest while being the cheapest makes it most bang for buck it seems.
Great video guys! Love the channel!
And being based on last gen car from 2016 without cup2 r type tires
Too bad GM is killing it (again)
@@angelgjr1999if it’s name isn’t “Corvette” they don’t care
Anytime a new Throttle House video comes out I always hit the like button before even watching the video. I know that it’s going to be awesome before it even starts.
Great episode Throttle House! you guys killed it again. Congrats to Carson as well!!
Lol. It’s completely insane how the Camaro’s design still looks brand new next to that brand new redesigned Ford Mustang! Timeless design for sure! 🔥 💨
Agreed! Love the 6th gen Camaro styling overall.
in my opinion the dark horse is the best looking muscle car, it takes both inspiration from chevy camaros and ford mustang and it just looks so cool
The designer actually didn't take any inspiration from the Camaro. He said that himself. He mostly took inspiration from Mustangs from the 60's.
well it looks like the camaro which i like aswel@@fusionsportdaily1650
yes it definetly does, the back half looks camaro the front looks mustang@@sycomantz
Great video as usual. I agree with Thomas, these laptop display gauge clusters won't age well. I do see the need for them, but integrate them in a well designed cluster that compliments the rest of the interior instead of the almost vertical rectangle. The Audi E-Tron GT comes to mind.
Really good video, as usual. Seeing the 21 Mach1 next to the dark horse, the Mach1 has a cleaner look do it. Interesting for all the performance added to the dark horse; apparently simply a focus on reducing weight would have been time and money better spent.... kudos to Ford for developing the DOHC 5.0 V8 to get it to where it is today. With a rear seat delete it would seem a Dark Horse Mustang could be right there with a BMW M8 CS, and perhaps a bit past it.
I know it's a boat and it's never going to the quickest thing around, but I love my challenger. Massive trunk, usable back seats, enough power to be a bit of a hooligan when I want to be, and I get compliments on it all the time even though there are a million of em out there.
Mopar or No Car
@@daadvanzdone2335mopar is short for more parts
The real star of the show here are those brand new Trofeo RS tires. I've only ever seen them on the Pagani Utopia, and they're a telling sign of the future of tire tech. Those tires allowed the 4000 lb Dark Horse to stop shorter than any car in Motortrend testing history, beating out the GT2 RS and Viper ACR, and likely trade blows with Cup 2 Rs in various performance areas.
Even though Thomas spoke to how good they are, it still seems wildly understated. Besting a ZL1 1LE is an incredible feat, so good, the GT500 CFTPs usually can't, and yet here a heavier Dark Horse did just that (not same day, I understand that). Those tires are game changers.
We need a same tire same day test with zl1 1le and ss 1le as well. If those tires are that sticky there will be a good amount of time saving on that road coarse
It still blows my mind how gm gets a pushrod engine to breathe so well up top
and how much headroom is left despite the factory level of performance. LS/LT heads are great
There's no big secret to it. If you understand the basic principles of engineering that is... A pushrod engine can have exactly the same cam lift and duration as an overhead, and in fact the only penalty is weight. It's actually less complex as the connecting rods are precision machined, so potentially can be more accurate than a belt or chain. The only better system is the Ducati Desmo valve system in terms of accuracy, but it sacrifices a lot of simplicity to achieve it.
Pushrod is the most 1990's technology I've seen in my life, Dual Overhead Cam for the win
Gym masters of the v8
Variable cam timing and good flowing heads. If GM put the C8 LT2 intake on it, there's no doubt it would have pulled pass the Mustang in both races.
GREAT content as always TH! I'm SO happy that the Mach 1 finally got a proper run around your track. As a Mach 1 owner who uses it as a daily driver, I was happy to see it perform as well as an M2, and better than an SS 1LE, a C8 Z51, and even a Cayman GTS 4.0. That's some pretty impressive company for a 3800+ lb pony car that's traditionally been known as a "grand tourer" instead of a true track car. It would have been interesting though to see the Mach 1's track time if you borrowed the Trofeo RS tires from the Dark Horse and took it around one more time.
Mach1 was never a grand tourer by any means...
Stock would probably be tie/slower than SS1LE, we dont know alignment specs and so on, but probably it's way better dialed than DH.
Wait for Lighting Lap 2024 to find out how faster DH is against stock Mach1.
A seat delete is barely going to do anything. And if you want to talk stock, the SS 1le’s fastest time has cup 2s which isn’t stock.
Did you watch the Video they had the times listed both the Mach 1 and Dark Horse were faster than any of the Camaro's period. Dark Horse was even faster then ZL1 1le and C8.
@throttlehouse
guys you need to test a GT350R with fresh cup 2’s around your track
Since James is having a baby his dad jokes are gonna hit different
Glad we finally got to see the Mach 1 on the track and it put up an impressive number. For those of us who are not sold on the S650 platform, the Mach 1 looks like the way to go. Oh, and the Dark Horse had a nice lap as well. Great job fellas, you nailed it once again.
Yeah was real happy to see Mach 1 S550 vs... Mach 1 S650 finally. Numbers are what I'd expected. While the Dark Horse has better tires, the Mach 1 has the seat delete, so in the end they're basically the same for most part... which is basically what they are. New gen Voodoo please?
@@Urukior4fkn seat delete in not equivalent to trofeo rs tires
Yeah not even close, throw the TRS on that Mach 1 and it’s going to probably run a super low 1:10 or high 1:09
@@teemeaux3830 yeah, rear seat weighs 50lbs max. These cars weigh roughly the same 3868 for the Mach 1 and 3879 for the Dark Horse. The fact that he says the Mach 1 feels way lighter speaks volumes to me.
@@brandonanderson4117 really tempted to pill the trigger on a used Mach 1 right now.
That dark horse front end looks tough, I love that!
What a great video all 3 did well 392 hasn't seen a big refresh since it came out in 2011 just the 10 hp gain in 2015 and didn't do bad considering we're on the 4th gen of coyote and the camaro recieved the lt1 back in 2016 but most of all props to ford for keeping the American muscle car alive
I believe the manual scat also uses a 3.90 so doesn't help with the long races lol
Yea unfortunately dodge showed no love to the 392.
The "Ketty Perry mood" part got me.
"I was waiting for the part where James goes, "she's a beast, I call her mustang."
😂😂😂😂😂
Loved the FPV drone shots in this video. Great pilot whoever they are. Great vid as usual gentlemen.
I'm floored the DH is faster than a 1LE around the track 😮
And zl1
The "CLONED" Rear Camaro fenders make the mustang look so much better.
It just drives me mad that the mustang is as big as the m4 and nearly as heavy. Absolutely MASSIVE car.
You’re right the Mustang has gotten too big and heavy. I prefer a lighter and more nimble car. Porsche Cayman is the best but sadly it’s gotten too expensive! The Supra is also right there but they are very hard to get. I purchased a Miata RF manual and it’s great fun and very therapeutic. It’s handling on curvy roads is unique and it’s affordability is nice!
I cannot put into words how excited I am to see what ford does with the next gen Shelbys
I actually wonder how they positioned the dark horse: under GT350 or above. Because they represented this as the road going version Mustang GT3 while previous GT350's were nearest Mustang to GT3's.
Probably make them electric because they have been absolutely retarded lately on what they are putting out.
@@Grnbaracuda I think it's at the same level as the g350, like the mach 1. We won't see a gt350 at the same time.
My main takeaway from this video is that James is a better singer than Katy Perry.
To me this just shows how bad ass the LT1 is. It’s half the price of the Mustang and yet can keep up with it. Gotta love that Chevy power
This goes to show how good the 6th gen Camaro alpha platform is. It was basically as fast as the mustang but with less power. Weight really makes a huge difference as well.
Its a shame Camaros are so ugly though. Little ass windows too, idk how you can see anything
@@llamaking1453 Its a sports car. You dont need to see out of it. 😂. Also the Camaro isnt ugly. The refresh was just polarizing at first but they look better in IRL. you cant say the zl1 is ugly.
Its definitely ugly lol. Sorry bro just my personal opinion. I'd take challenger or gt500 over it in terms of looks anyday@@Inferno45
@@llamaking1453 Suit yourself but the challenger is dead and the new gt500 isnt out.
45 freaking horsepower advantage and that was still close. If the Camaro had only 20 HP more it would still be down on HP and would have taken it
I just want to say I'm glad that my LT1 can run with a Dark Horse on a strip For $20K less on the stock run flats.
Well said. 😂
DH is a huge letdown for $80k. Just get a ZL1.
@@MakingItHappenMWC Sadly, TH picked the ugliest Mach 1 in Canada. Is it even a real Handling Pack? The M1 is by far the better option compared to the Dead Horse, but for the overall money, the ZL1 cannot be beat.
More like $30k-$40k less. DH will be scarcely made on purpose
Yeah, it can keep up with the Dark Horse sorta kinda...in a straight line. For that purpose though, you can buy a cheap C5, C6 corvette, and with some mods they will be quicker than that mustang
Dark Horse vs GT350? I would love to see a GT350 lap time, even if it is not on comparable tires.
Cudos to Ford for making the ultimate push to the Mustang as the sun sets on American V8 manual sports coupes. The only negative I see with the DH is the screens on the dash.
The GT and the Dark Horse use different 6-speed transmissions. The GT uses the Getrag MT-82 and the Dark Horse uses the Tremec TR-3160. Hence the shifting differences in the two cars.
Could you care to elaborate more?
Just gotta love that challenger, dont care if it's not the fastest, it will always be the coolest with that retro and bulky look.
That's a great attitude to have.
Agreed. The next gen amazing, and hopefully Dodge can do a better job than what Ford did with the S650.
.... 💯% correct 👍!!! The Challenger will ALWAYS be, the best looking!
@@user-pr5po9iq7tidk bruh, I gotta go with that Darkhorse with the performance to match.
@@ClickbaitMotorsportshope you know the next gen will be fully electric
As a Ford engineer that works on the mustang, this makes me happy 😁 EDIT: And the goat in the back seat lmao
Bro, thank you! We appreciate what you and the ford team do.
……we got any other special variants coming soon? Lol
I'm a Chevy guy who likes all three. The Challenger IMO is the best looking and looks like a true muscle car, that's' why I own one. I had a 70 Plymouth that I loved. There's just something about Mopar that does it for me.
Thank y’all for getting the Dark Horse AND Mach1 in there for a proper test and lap times 😎🔥🍻
I think it would be awesome if a tire brand would sponsor a video so you guys could put better tires on cars that have already been around your track to see the difference it makes
3 weeks ago I bought a Mach 1 HP. I assumed that as the DH was finally making its way to showroom floors that there would be Mach 1 owners who would have to have one regardless of the price and dump theirs for a significant loss just to have the latest model. I'm feeling pretty good about that decision right about now.
You'd trade a Mach1 in for that ugly car?
Well it is a Mustero after all.
At 4:23 the look on his face is priceless
That is a reaction of a comeback and getting smoked in a dark horse by the lt1 lol
Not sure I see your point. The Camaro lost. Also I think it was a look of determination
@@josephearley605 lol camaro never loses
@@josephearley605 look at the price difference, who’s the real winner
@@BarbacoaAppliances818depending on where you buy it the dark horse is between a few thousand to $15,000 cheeper at least in the US
@@BarbacoaAppliances818 depending on where you buy it the dark horse is between a few too around $15,000 cheeper at least in America
Best sounding drag race ever!
I would love a lap time with the Shelby GT 350! I love that Voodoo engine
Yes, I do not understand why they don't have a lap time.
This became my favourite car channel, you guys make an extraordinary good job! These Lap Time Track tests are just great. I would like to see such a test with a Corvette C7 Grand Sport, maybe in the near future you get this car and can test it to a 911 or Corvette C8 :) Greetings from Germany.
That was so incredibly engaging and exciting to watch! I loved that video! I have and love my Gen 7 GT convertible pp and now I know where it stands compared to DH. I think these guys are exactly the energy every car review and comparison needs! You’ve got another subscriber!
New dark horse is legit 🔥 What an absolute beast from the factory alone! 👍💪
Nice lineup ! I'm more of a german car guy, but would love to have that Camaro in my garage.
what are you on about the mustang is clearly far superior
Nice to see a Camaro LT1 in a video! Would have been cool to see what the LT1 could do around the track.
My guess would be up there with the PP2 Mustang from the last track video they had. Granted it has everything that the RS 1LE has plus the V8 so it might actually be quicker than that Mustang.
Would have beat all 3 cars 😎💯🏆
The fact it kept up with the dark horse is crazy
@@1k_vonteliterally and it has 50 less hp and not even on a track package like the scat pack or the dark horse. ford had to boost their 5.0 bc the basic one couldn’t even compete with the ss😮💨
Nice, the cat and the cam didn’t get blown out like I thought. Even looked like the Camaro was coming on the big end
Wait a minute. DARK HORSE. BLACK. ONE. THIN ICE