@@beardedbard6308 Yes, Marisha had call lightning active. which means she could have ran for 30, called a bolt on the giant, kept running. and she could have repeated that for 10 minutes doing 4 D10 damage every 6 seconds. that or what actually happened was Percy stopping dead to fire giving the Giant time to catch up and hit him. tactically speaking Keyleth was completely right with her call.
@@sydney4814 Sorry, but you are 100% wrong that that's a correct call. Assuming the giant has a speed equal to the party(which is probably actually higher than the party's, tbh) it would take the dash action(which all monsters, unless otherwise stated, can do) and catch up to Keyleth quickly. Keep in mind, Keyleth has to use her action to use call lightning each turn, and cannot dash.
@@pyrrhicentropy9403 well you can't attack when you dash, and Vex was still making cheese out of it. Mooore than enough. Percy did waste ammo and took free damage there.
@@Anegor Yes:Keyleth can't attack and dash in the same turn, nor can the giant. The giant could, however, catch up then force Keyleth to disengage or allow an attack of opportunity. If Keyleth decides not to disengage she gets attacked. If he does disengage she gets caught up to by the giant's greater speed then attacked.
Matt: the citizens are fighting the Giant Party: oooh, look at these ropes Matt: guys, remember, there's a battle right next to you Party: so these ropes were cut? Matt: the giant killed everybody who was fighting him Party: can we figure out if the bodies fell down from these ropes or?... Matt: ... Matt: 100 skeletons come out of nowhere and start running towards you
I was really pissed at this. They LITERALLY said "we can't rest, if have to fight the giants before they kill everyone" and then just stood and looked at ropes as the giant killed everyone
@@_oldmanjoel Heh, yeah. That was frustrating to watch :) I've said it before, Vox Machina as a group has a combined IQ of 60 sometimes. It's the too many cooks problem I guess :) I feel like its kind of the same thing that happens when me and my friends have to plan an ambush or an attack. Except we don't have the pressure of thousands of viewers forcing us to make hasted decisions.
@@boohoow I mean but they're not doing this for the viewers. They are doing this based off of the enjoyment of it and the fact that people enjoy watching this. The viewers input very little to the story, if any at all.
Here is a thought, he used the circle of teleportation to go to Emon. The Lyceum is in the Cloudtop District. For now they aren't allowed there. He isn't shopping, he got arrested or something.
I do love that the party completely and constantly ignores Matt's attempts to persuade them to actually help the townsfolk and they don't even notice when he tries to let them know they failed (when the giants wrecked that group of people they basically just let die.)
I thought the same. My favorite part was how he stressed it 3 times like "YOU SEE THE BATTLE STILL RAGING BETWEEN THE PEASANTS AND THE GIANT" and there still wasn't the slightest hint of recognition.
James Knoll I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed. I just kept expecting them (especially keyleth with all her talk of helping the people) to go actually do something about the very urgent situation instead they inspect a tree for a couple minutes that still would've been there after they killed the giant and saved the people
YES. 100% THIS. They just toddled off to the Sun Tree, and IGNORED PEOPLE DYING. They are SO blind to the world around them sometimes that it's frustrating, as even some of the bastard characters I could play would STILL be helping out the people in this town right now, because Vampire Overlords are worse! It's really hard to watch the group just ignore an entire group of villagers dying, because they're concerned about the Sun Tree, which isn't going anywhere.
Well 5 of 6 didn't want to lift a finger in the first place. As DM I'd be stripping away all their good alignments right about now, constantly placing their own interests above others is much more neutral than it is good. Only reason they're even in the city is vengeance and to clear their names. Their actions seem to show they only want to use the rebellion to their own ends.
Totally, I was like: "Argh, you guys! These people are so brave facing these giants on their own, but you (at least the ones that don't need spells) could do so much more and save lifes !" Yea, one can only hope things won't end too badly here.
Man it was so painful. I get that a lot of them were low, but they didn't have to go all the way for the Briarwooks, just help take out some giants and save the people, then rally them for another fight later.
I hope everyone realises how diffent the rebellion would have turned out if Percy, instead of resting, climbed up to the highest building in town and started sniping giants with bad news as they fought the peasants
@@Eddie21k That's sort of the point though. They've been throwing up his symbol everywhere. Rebellions need leaders to unite behind, so they don't just fall into chaos, Percy could have made himself the hero of the Whitestone rebellion, but he wanted to rest instead.
@Chloe McIntire as Widowmaker would say, all it takes is one shot to change everything. If they beat one or two of the Giants with the peasants that means more peasants fighting Giants the others increasing survival odds. At that point they can nap as the mob swarmed.
Chloe McIntire Percy has very limited ammo. He has to go buy gun powder for crafting bullets due to the fact that he is the only one during the current time who knew how to make them. One of the big limits on gunslinger class due to his high damage out puts
What confused me so much this episode was the people blaming keyleth for trying to keep the riot going, THEN getting upset at her for going to the sun tree when literally everyone else in the party wanted to go there. Why did she get blamed for the sun tree when percy was the one who brought up the idea and everyone else backed him
Its all about game play, they needed to rest and she wanted to keep going. Basically this was asking for a tpk or player death to happen and its only thanks to the DM that they weren't overwhelmed. Role play wise she was justified but gamewise she was not.
Well that was a frustrating episode to watch. Part one, featuring Triceratops Rambo Scanlan, was hilarious and amazing. Part two, ending with the DM practically begging everyone to help the people (that they convinced to fight for them), only to ignore them until they were all dead, was painful to watch.
Keyleth is not my favorite character but I don't understand the hatred for her and Marisha. Keyleth was 100% right, you can't just start the rebellion and then abandon it to sleep, especially with zero communication. Like yes you need to rest but you rallied the townsfolk, you gotta get out there and help with what you started.
Keyleth: "OMG WE CAN'T JUST LEAVE THE CIVILIANS TO DIE!" Also Keyleth: "Oh look at this tree, I'm going to climb it, and ignore/interrupt the DM while he's describing the civilians currently trying to survive a zombie giant attack right behind us"
@@jokerlaughirl7484 This isn't an army. Its a fucking rag-tag uprising, incited by the actions of VM, and their opponents are an undead army that are literally always awake and won't stop until they kill everybody or are called off. They don't have the organization or chain of command to strategize shifts to hold a frontline because the whole town is the battlefield, nor do they have a fortified position to fall back to once their momentum has died down. A rebellion like this should, by all means, be a one-time, all-in push with the goal of securing the town. That would at the very least require that they kill all of the giants and find out who in the village is leading the rebellion so that they can organize with them. Keyleth realizing that the battle is underway and that you have to fucking do something NOW isn't ridiculous, but the rest of the group thinking that a bunch of fucking villagers can survive or even retreat from an undead army while VM takes a rest certainly is.
@@jokerlaughirl7484 No, I was trying to start an intelligent discussion but I've realized you're incapable of that. Have fun with... whatever it is you're trying to do.
I know im extremely late to the party here but wtf is it with people hating on any of the characters. never understood it. Like people seriously getting worked up over this and actually being angry is beyond me. I just dont get it. Its a game, they are playing their characters, mistakes will be made by all, dumb plays, rules not followed....so what? just sit back and enjoy. i cant imagine anyone watching the Dnd sessions i run. talk about people getting mad lol. one more thing i was 100% behind Keyleth's decisions good and bad because it was her choices to make. aslo, not really talking about this thread In particular just the show in general. I post here as a quick look showed recent posts.
I think the whole dilemma of resting vs. fighting could have been prevented if they, y'know, actually went to speak to that Trevor guy in the inn. They completely forgot about him. I'm pretty sure Matt had some plans for him to coordinate the rebellion, but they just went all Rambo on their own :P
Matt has plans for everything. He'd have had a plan if they took the coachman with them, heck, he made a fun story out of cows. The party overlooking obvious (to the viewer) things is what makes it obvious that this is a genuine DND game and not scripted
I figured the only reason villager retaliation happened so quickly was because Vax broke “terrible drunk dad” character and spoke to the other man in the bar who then went to the bartender. I don’t think it could have been really prevented. They didn’t have time or supplies to outfit or train the townsfolk. It was always going to be a fight with casualties
I think they should have helped but I still kind of blame the populace I get that they were told to wait and prepare for a rebellion but no one said to attack tonight they just started attacking
The Twitch chat is really starting to bother me. One second they're screaming "metagaming metagaming!!" then the next they're complaining when the players do something that isn't "min / maxing" and goes against what's considered effective or their character doesn't know any better vs going for role play. Disturbs me how much they like to complain just for the sake of complaining.
@@awesomechainsaw oh good! Cause the negativity from the fans is bugging me.. its finally been quashed onscreen with Orion leaving, but people are turning that hate on Marisha now
Ok this episode breaks my heart because Marisha as Keyleth was trying SO HARD to get the group to do the right thing and help the villagers and Matt as DM tried SO HARD to get the group to join in the fight but everyone else just kept saying no.
All I can think about is the little npc kids who were smiling at them when they burned the third house and wondering if their parents died because the other PCs have little to no empathy for anyone without a name. If you're gonna start a rigged battle, you have to consider the consequences.
I'm a little confused why Keyleth didn't just go take off running to help and let the others figure it out, like when she took off to find Clarota in the Underdark.
And then Keyleth decides to climb a tree instead of helping those villagers as they're literally getting crushed right behind her, so there you go. Marisha tends to just decide to do stuff without talking to the party, especially when the others have previously decided to not do what she wants.
@@twohorsesinamancostume7606 Marisha/Keyleth spends more time talking about morality than practicing it. She may be correct in her words, but people "who preach water, but drink wine" can be really annoying
00:00:16 - Scanlan being dumb 00:01:23 - Tylieri's family jewels 00:03:06 - Grog the Explorer 00:04:15 - Check for boobies 00:05:23 - Matt being coy 00:09:54 - Keyleth the firestarter 00:11:18 - End of part 1 00:12:27 - Fan art 00:25:30 - 5 minutes later... Start of part 2 00:28:59 - Jordana Whisk, and a resting dilemma 00:39:02 - Grog learns 00:40:10 - Percy gives his forgotten Headband of Initiative to Vex 00:42:25 - Scanlan sings a song of resting (Help, by The Beatles) 00:44:50 - Scanlan realizes a plot twist 00:46:56 - "Let's go giant-hunting" 00:50:12 - Army of the Dead 00:53:40 - "Stop looking up her skirt, brother" 01:00:32 - The death of a giant Watch the Critmas episode here: ruclips.net/video/hWDvXAyud6A/видео.html
I am 100% with Keyleth on this one. The heat Marisha got for this was ridiculous. Vex and Vax are both fighters so spells dont mean shit. Grog had a short rest and had plenty of hit dice to expend, so his hp should be fine. Moreover, Grog is a barbarian, which Travis plays with great pleasure and certainty, but all of a sudden Grog isnt the invincible tank, and he wants to run for the hills? And Percy, who is hellbent on ending the Briarwoods' reign, also agrees to head to the woods? Bullshit. These are a band of heroes that ignited a rebellion, Keyleth was totally playing to what her character should be and I am 100% behind Marisha's choice.
Do you know how many giants they'd have to face and an army of undead making their way to the group? Are you serious? Vox Machina would've been screwed. This isn't a video game where you control how you play. The entire game of DND is ruled by chance of the dice and realistically no one is invincible in this cast of characters. What's baffling is you seem to ignore this quality based on this one episode and completely forget the other ones where half the crew nearly died from powerful monsters. Not to mention Vex and Vax and Grog aren't able to do everything just because they're phsycial based. Use your head for a change.
Keyleth: Let's help the citizens Everyone else: no Keyleth: We need to help the citizens Everyone else: no Keyleth: We really should help them Everyone else: We're going to rest Keyleth: Now that we're rested lets go help the citizens Everyone else: Let's go to the tree Chat: Keyleth is so stupid why does she want to go to the tree instead of the citizens
First off, they didn't rest. Keyleth nagged so much they went out anyway with no spells. Secondly, when they did get there, instead of helping the citizens, Keyleth messed with a tree while they died. Then when they tried to run, she climbed a tree and shot ice at some skeletons for basically no damage.
@@daniellucas5522 Not to mention the fact that she took out about a third of the army with her ice storm. The rest would've been much easier to pick, had they chosen to, especially with Call Lightning still up (but with their usual frontal assault tactics, they were likely better not). They could have been able to take them all if Tiberius was there for some Blasting spells :P
They were going to have to fight a 100+ army of the undead, not mention that there would also be zombie giants and possibly vampires. Their spell-casters were basically all out of spells (aka no AOE damage) so they were only left with single target attacks. They would quickly be over-run and probably die. So yeah it does suck that the citizens died, but Vox Machina had already done a lot and there's no reason for them to die right there.
Rupti Doolooroodoo This was one of the worst (decision making) episodes I've seen so far. Keyleth is insistent they help the citizens, presented with a chance, "let's all inspect this tree right now while the giant kills everyone".
It was Percy who said they should go towards the tree, not Keyleth. Besides their reasoning was sound: if the tree was indeed related to the spawning of more vampires then it could have been important to know that when trying to understand the machinations of the Briarwoods and their ground forces. If they had good reason to believe that more foes would start spawning from the tree or the ground around the tree (which had been their theory for a while) then they (Vox Machina) would be the best fighters to handle it while the rest of the civilians handled the giants, especially since it seemed that the rest of the civilians had no knowledge of the Sun Tree being the spawn point. Of course, after this episode we know that the Sun Tree was indeed NOT a spawn point, but at the time of this episode it was a solid theory given everything Vox Machina had experienced up to this point.
Part of VM's initial theory after examining the Sun Tree (and Vex sensing the undead around them while in the cave under the tree) was that the Briarwoods had somehow corrupted the tree and turned it into some kind of source of necromantic energy. This was supported by the fact that several misty-form vampires attacked the party while they slept in the cave under the Sun Tree. At one point they theorized that the reason that people were hung from the tree was not only as a show of terror and control but also to turn anything hanging there into vampires. This theory was supported by the fact that the one noble who liked to torture the carriage driver boy was said to have eventually been hung from the tree, something Silas apparently showed the carriage boy. Later, when they faced that same noble in combat they discovered that he was a vampire. Also they believed that since the Sun Tree was a gift from Pelor, the god of the sun, by corrupting it the Briarwoods would have been essentially corrupting the greatest symbol Whitestone had for defeating the vampires--the sun.
@51:00 The consequences I expected finally bear fruit. They came out of hiding to "help fight Giants to protect civilians" and yet when they come across a live giant battle they stare at ropes in a tree until every last civilian is killed. Matt tried reminding them of the battle repeatedly, and they kept frantically turning their attention to a tree that could wait and theorizing about enemies that were not present from a scenario of "spawning" that may not exist. *sigh* 51:00 broke my heart to hear the last civilian crushed under the giant's fist... But worse was that it got no response from the players. They didn't even care. 😟
@@Grovesie35 If Matt wanted Tyleri for an arc later he should have never had him get in melee with Grog, or had him turn into a bat and flee as soon as he was below 50% HP. Refusing to allow your players to kill a minor boss by trying to make their abilities useless just makes them feel like the game is rigged against them, just look how much fun they were having up to that point, and then look how little fun they had afterwards. Knowing that vampires turn into mist and that you are in a city full of vampire, then seeing all your melee fighters clustered around some mist inside a house means it isn't much of a leap to think that mist is probably a vampire, a 17 Intelligence check should have been enough. Or at least letting the other characters tell her it is a vampire. PS the plan was always to create a distraction at 2nd house to try to draw the giants & other guards away from 3rd house so they had time to wipe 3rd house without being interrupted/discovered. They didn't think ahead to what happens with the rebellion afterwards because VM is really bad at planning.
Also a few episodes back when the deck hand fell off of the air ship i was so hoping keyleth or tiberius would get him but i was sad to find out they just let him go splat... Oh well its a fucking game!
I know, right?! It's frustrating. I'm just watching these now, and it's so damn frustrating sometimes! I've watched all of campaign 2 thus far, so the line between where Marisha starts and antics like this Keylieth end is hard to tell. All in all though, it's just REALLY annoying when the whole party is drained and one party member is adamantly stubborn about running into danger despite what EVERYONE else wants or needs.
Lmfao my old DM would have stopped us as we said we wanted to look at the tree and probably said something like "Okay guys, the rebellion you guys have been brewing is happening. Right now. It's literally happening. The peasants are rising up and by the looks of it they will die without professional help. Now are you SURE you want to investigate the tree right NOW?" No hate on Matt or Keyleth, they both tried to get the party to do what they've been trying to start for several episodes but...D&D be like that sometimes
After reading the comments, im starting to think I'm the only one who likes Keyleth and Marisha. Keyleth was right about helping the people fight the giants and it seems like she's the only one with morals most of the time. Even Percy, who's from Whitestone, doesn't care about the people living there as long as he gets revenge.
@@nousvivons I mean I haven't seen any comments about Laura. Could be that people have a reason to be frustrated with her that doesn't have to do with the fact she's a woman. I would never say Marsha is an idiot/bad person based on how she plays a table top game but the way she continues to flip flop between calling out other characters for doing brutal shit and then does brutal shit herself is pretty frustrating to watch. I'm fine if she was this moral voice in the group all the time but instead she kills a torture victim trapped in the under dark, completely incarnated a guard who had been fleeing, and then completely ignored the civilians that were rebelling when she was the only one who wanted to help them. The flip flopping is pretty frustrating to watch
In Percy's defense, he is not ... himself. His ability to view his own morals clearly and utilize empathy for his people is obscured by the ongoing strain on his soul and the corruption he is under. Keyleth is decidedly right in her moralistic view, but I feel like she's the only one other than Percy (IF he was in his right mind) that would be correct in wrestling with the morals of the situation. Vax (rogue) and Vex (ranger) may or may not have a Good alignment, and I feel like they both run closer to neutral (self-interest) than Good/moral. Grog's spot on, and Scanlan has said before his alignment is "Good .... -ish?" lol
@@mr.correctopinion6754 The thing is, she doesn't wanna kill unless it's necessary for their plan. Keyleth is not an example of good morals, she's a part of a group of mercenaries afterall, she just doesn't wanna go off the rails with their mission by torturing/killing random people
I think it was a mistake to show them a couple of dead giants early on. I get what he was going for, but given the party is clearly reluctant to fight them to begin with, it kind of sends the message that the peasants can take these things down on their own, just with heavy losses. If instead of seeing two dead giants they'd come across a heavily wounded one still being attacked, and had managed to save some lives just by contributing their basic attacks and not using any special abilities, it would have given the message that even exhausted they're still superheroes compared to a peasant militia.
Did you watch the episode or are you just blindly blaming the cast? They literally said they were exhausted and most of the character needed a long rest to recover their strength to even stand a chance against the giants or help. They're STILL WEAKENED
The episode where Matt and Marisha are like parents asking the kids to help the REBELLION THAT THEY STARTED, but then the easily distracted kids went to the tree lol
@@chibiakamaru I mean she did but she was the one who tried to insist they fight the zombie giants. Percy had said to go to the tree in the first place and since the group had theories that Sun Tree was Super Important they ended up accidentally focusing on it because that's kind of how DnD plays out sometimes lol If you have a lot of chaos happening narratively, you can easily forget to stay in the scene and get fixated on the wrong thing.
@@MugWitch This, plus it's the GMs job to focus in on important things. If anyone is to really be blamed here it would be Matt but at the end of the day is a game, not real life. People take this far too seriously.
@@zemowit wait what. Blame Matt? What? He tried multiple times to bring attention to the fact the giant was slaughtering the poor villagers. That was entirely VM's fault.
@@TioPatacas What was whose fault? For as long as the group is having fun, there's no problem. You are not running the game for the GM. This is also just THEIR game that they decided to stream, so your pleasure isn't their primary concern. Even if the entire city burned to the ground with no survivors, for as long as VM would feel good playing this session, it would be all that matters. And while we are at it... have you ever played GTA? And if yes, how many civilians and innocents have you killed there? Killing people in GTA and in DnD is the same. For as long as the player(s) are having fun, it's all good. They do not live. They are fictional.
This is probably one part where I'm glad that the animated show took heavy liberties on how to tell it. Yes it was still a massive slaughter in the show, but at least Vox Machina wasn't ignoring the rebellion they started and instead fought alongside the peasants and eventually won. Here it just feels like they dropped the roleplay aspect and were entirely thinking about playing to win. Vex, Vax, and Scanlan can all be argued as being neutral characters who at this point are more interested in self preservation, or at least preservation of the group. Percy can be argued as being corrupted by the influence of Orthax, who has no interest in fighting undead, since they have no souls for him to feed on. But that's still an issue, it's being argued for them, but it's not actually being shown in roleplay. None of them looked at Keyleth and said, "We're too taxed to continue fighting, especially against six undead giants. We're sorry but we should have made a better plan cause all we've done is riled up people to run to their deaths." Instead we have 5 people saying "No let's rest, we have no spells, we've taken some damage, etc etc," granted Keyleth is their main spellcaster at this point, and even though Scanlan's out of spells, he's still got a lot more utility as a bard. But that brings us to probably the most confusing character/person. Grog/Travis. Grog, after the short rest, is almost back to his full hp, if I'm not mistaken. He's also always raring for a fight, and has been near frothing at the mouth for this one this whole time they've been in town. Yet suddenly he's wanting to take a full rest. He's not even being Grog, as both Laura and Liam say, "Who are you?" when Travis makes a very non-Grog comment on what they should do. Meanwhile poor Keyleth is almost begging the group that they have to go do something. In all honesty even if just her, Grog, and Vax go out to gather up any survivors and get the rebellion centralized in a safer location, it would have been better than just waiting for the giants to finish off the peasants. Besides that there's also a few things just felt forced in. Sam suddenly asking questions about Tylieris, which then causes the party to completely abandon helping the people and instead go look at a dead tree with some ropes. Also doesn't help that when Matt says that only Kyleth notices the ropes don't have the bodies hanging on them, Laura is the one who pushes for them to investigate further, despite Vex having seemingly not noticed the ropes at that point. The entire scenario just felt forced, and it was saddening to just see Marisha and Matt both slowly checking out as they see the rest of the group has no interest in being helpful. So yeah, I'm very happy that the writers of the Legend of Vox Machina decided, "Eeeeeeh that was a shitty series of scenarios, lets just remake that whole bit." Such as having the team actually interact with Trevor, who was made into a long lost friend of Percy's, etc etc. They kept the utter devastation and heartbreak of the scene with peasants dying left and right, wholly unmatched for something that's even a bit challenging for seasoned adventurers as Vox Machina, but at least Vox Machina were active in there. Huh... maybe that's why it's called "the Legend"
This is a minor point but the next time I watch the animated series, the very end of this comment is going to make me think of it as a legend or story told of the real events in this campaign
Marisha: Hey that mist Grog is attacking, does it look anything like the vampire mist that we fought last night? Matt: NO METAGAMING Keyleth: I know we're exhausted, but this peasant uprising will be destroyed without our help! Party: But... we need a long rest to regain our spell slots...
I'm watching it after LoVM. Unpopular opinion, I prefer the animated show to the campaign, (which is still great! The player and the characters are great!). I'm sorry we hadn't the chance to see the Underdark arc though... Maybe they could do some episodes or a movie as an extra adventure?
@@janehundson2973 i like the more detail and event’s personally, even though there are things the party do that i disagree with. but, i completely understand why you prefer the show, i love it as well
@@whoiscaroline It depends on what you've watched before, I think. 🤷 I remember I've fallen in love with VM since episode 1 and I didn't know its origin. The show is definitely shorter, but it has a lot of punchy moments and makes you realize that the characters are assholes, but with hearts of gold. At first they wanted to escape from the dragon, but then when they saw the dead child they showed that deep down they care about people. I know that in the campaign their better sides will come out in the future, but for now most of them did very questionable things.
I like how VM was like “ok lets just tell everyone to stop rebelling while we take a long rest. I’m sure the Briarwoods and all the undead will be very cool with that and not just kill everyone instead.” I love this show but the second half of this episode was very something else. Also Matts face when all the villagers die while VM looks at a tree.
Metagaming is the worst sin possible to be avoided at all costs until you're arguing to take an 8 hour nap in the middle of a revolution you started because you blew all of your resources on a single encounter.
People act like they can't do ANYTHING without a rest, but you just can't do your cool shit. You can still swing an axe, fire a bow or a gun, use a wand or a cantrip. A L12 adventurer can do a hell of a lot more damage at the end of their day than a L1 peasant can at the start of theirs.
@@johnnye87to be fair, if you are a spell caster (mostly Scanlan here since by all means Keyleth is a moon druid) you are a big fucked, and going against a vampire and powerful caster is pretty deadly if you are worn out and one player has nothing of real value to offer.
I wonder if they are going to make the party more heroic in the animated series, I've finished c2 and this is my first watch of c1 and man this party are some serious assholes.
@@laura-lydia7610 At least until Taryon Darrington joins the party. He kind of embodies all their worst traits and forces Vox Machina to look in a mirror when dealing with him. It was heartbreaking seeing Sam change characters the way he did but I think that Bard's lament and Tary's self grandizing and using them strictly for his benefit, at first, really helped to humble the party.
@@Dragon_Lair Oh shit did I just spoil myself for Googling Taryon? He's played by you know who does that mean the character you know who is playing right now died???
I am so disappointed, for a while VM was all like " we need friends, allies, let's build a militia!" And then as soon as they get their allies, they leave them all to die.... just... come on...
they didn't leave them all to die. they helped kill one, saw the villagers take down one, and killed a giant as well. so three out of the six were dead. the one giant by the sun tree won it's fight, until the Keeper and the rest got to it. remember when the skeletons showed up, the Keeper and the villagers were fighting, and they'd killed the gaints. which is why the Keeper was questioning/upset when they started to call for retreat when they noticed the sheer numbers of skele's the birarwoods sent. I think too many people are acting like the giant fight by the sun tree was ALL the villagers against the last giant. it wasn't. it was one team vs one of the last ones. by the time the skeletons show up, it was basically the villagers had killed 5 giants out of six, one of them with grog and scanlan's help. and VM killed on on thier own. so it wasn't like the giant's steamrolled them or killed them all in the fight by the sun tree. I think the villagers were doing like 4-6 people at least per giant. so by the sun tree, 6 villagers died. there were other deaths as well, but the vast majority of the villagers lived, even without VMs help on most of the fights.
@@leovincent7417 If you think that DnD is any indication of real life behavior, then I have bad news for you. Unless you want to criticize fans of GTA for killing innocent people, you really shouldn't be all too bothered that this group of fictional heroes - played by their players for their own satisfaction - isn't saving fictional peasants as effectively as you would have liked.
Having rewatched this whole thing, I think there was some weird mixed messages between the party and the DM. The party didn't think the town was quite ready to rise up. They were asking how to convince them to rebel and learned that it would be very helpful to kill Lord Tylieri. They were planning on going all out to kill him and then trying to rally the townspeople the next day. That also seemed to be what Matt was suggesting would happen, since the NPC said the townspeople were being cautious. The party was pretty convinced that when the rebellion started, they might face an entire army of vampires, after just 3 of them made for a moderately difficult encounter the previous night, so they wanted to have everything ready before fighting. But Matt actually had the whole town rise up before the party had really recruited anyone. It didn't really make narrative sense and they weren't able to really roll with the punches, and Grog had taken so much damage they were all concerned about what else they might face. It doesn't excuse how silly it was for them to decide to go kill the giants and then suddenly ignore the giants when they saw the tree, though.
Late to this as I binge to catch up, but this episode really made clear that Keyleth is arguably the only one of VM who isn't a murderhobo. Vax I might make a case in defense of against the title, but how easily they shrug off mass death of others blew me off guard. That is their character right, but it shocks me is all. She's very refreshing to my outcry of morality, even if they all just ignored the people dying to that one giant ._. player mistakes though, they were struck by dread of the idea of being at a spawning point of vampires so I can forgive that.. Keyleth was far from my favorite early in the series but she's one of the beacons for me as she so very much treats the people in this world as very real people and not just 'npcs'
I prefer Pike as the good morality. Keyleth is constantly betraying her morality, probably because Marisha FORGETS and then suddenly has to cram 3 months of "OH RIGHT IM A GOOD GUY" by crying about one person they killed when in any other world she'd be a monster herself.
@@mentallyderangeddoggirl she IS a monster...just one that has a consciience every now and then...pike has done it like a grand total of 5 or less times...i believe...where keyleth has slummed it with the others time and time again...also fairly sure if she was actually following the druid morality, like she claims, she would be against cities and for nature more often than she is...but i dont get to play a druid that often so i am not sure there
Right!? Everyone says Vox Machina is a bunch of heroes and Mighty Nien are the morally grey ones but I would argue it's the opposite. The Mighty Nein have empathy at the very least, Vox Machina are a bunch of unlikeable murder-hoboing megalomaniacs with inflated stats.
@@SocialistSadako I'm trying really hard to like Vox Machina, and so far it's been a hit and a miss. The worst part is that every NPC regards them as crowned heroes and due to the fact that they're at a high level (with ridiculously min maxed stats) they practically blow through every encounter without much of a sweat, so there isn't any room for development or realising that there are consequences for their actions. The M9 don't pretend to be on higher moral ground, while Vox Machina genuinely act like they have the right to talk moral qualms when they slaughter anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with them. It's disappointing, but I'm trying to give C1 the benefit of the doubt since it was years ago and they've all come a long long way as roleplayers and PCs since then.
Love everyone in chat clamoring about how skeletons are resistant to bludgeoning damage and immune to cold when they absolutely aren't in 5e. They actually take more bludgeoning damage than normal.
Damien Voidstar in all fairness it wasnt super obvious which edition Critrole was at the time. The game started as pathfinder if i recall? Or 3.5 (more or less the same) and then when they started streaming they changed to 5th edition rules with some home brewed rules. And stayed that way till campaign 2 where it was strictly all 5th edition.
when have skeletons...ever...been resistant to blunt? slashing and piercing yeah...but bludgeon damage...you are crushing them...in all the versions ive played blunt has always been the skeletons weakness
@@jcoonie2 It was clear. The specific in the first couple of episodes it's 5e. With some homebrewed rules, mainly grog and percys class. It wasn't muddy at all, Matt made a point of mentioning it several times across the first couple of episodes.
Someone tried to claim lightning against the zombie giants was bad, because they called them flesh golems. I think it was pretty clear that was not what those giants were, but people are really looking to find issues where there are none
Wow. The division in the comments on this one are crazy. For what it's worth, I feel for the players a little here. From a narrative standpoint, Keyleth is entirely right. They are committed. Sure they're worn down but that's where their poor planning left them. The rebellion's started and every minute they take to rest people are dying, weakening their side of the conflict. But from a mechanical, GAMEPLAY standpoint... Travis is right. They are too personally resource-poor to take on the Briarwoods. They cannot "win" the "boss fight" without resting and they have no way of knowing when they will be forced into that fight or if they will have a better opportunity to rest than now. It's one of the problems with the recovery system for d&d--it forces narratively vexing rests on players to recover resources, which can grind the momentum to a halt. Honestly, I think I might have just leveled with the players and TOLD them what should have been obvious to their characters (considering that starting a rebellion was their plan). Right now, they are personally weak but have a large army and the enemy has had only limited time to organize resistance against you. The longer you wait, you will regain more of your personal resources for the grid-based tactical combat but will have far fewer narrative resources (element of surprise, the army, etc). You started this. You know your alignments. Are these townspeople resources to sacrifice to help you kill the Briarwoods or is saving them the OBJECTIVE and killing the Briarwoods the means to an end?
Matt would not make them take on the Boss fight without a rest.. he literally let half the party take a full rest just outside the Rakshasa lair, a fiend that flees when threatened and shouldn't have been there the next day or attacked them while they slept right outside. All they had to do was take out a a handful of zombie giants, with the help of a small militia of NPCs. Keyleth was right in the narrative position and Travis was 100% wrong on the mechanics of it and the RP of it.. Grog wouldn't say we have no resources, he'd be like "Yay!! Something to else to hit. Best day EVER!!"
Well the point of this adventure isn’t to save Whitestone or its people, it’s for Percy to get revenge on the Briarwoods and clear VM’s names. At least as far as their characters are concerned
@@tristenweaver8246 That was just the adventure hook.. not the greater narrative. Matt always has a greater story to his adventures with deeper implications, you are looking at it through the classic murder hobo lens.
This isn't a dnd recovery problem. You can't keep fight all day, throwing massive spells left and right. They had a big fight and they are exhausted. Does it make moral sense for them to keep going? Yes. Should they be as good as new? Hell no. This is a direct consequense of their poor planning and it is as it should be.
Rewatching early episodes is tough seeing how toxic the chat normally was and how much they picked on keyleth/Marisha. She wanted to help the villagers, everyone else wanted to go to the tree. Chat blames her for going to the tree. Then when she tries to help and fight the skeletons they complain that she’s fighting and not running. Early episodes I just try to avoid the comments as much as I can cos it’s the same shit haha
@@chrism6315 i dont really care for how she play her characters because she tends to be overly self righteous towards others but tends not to bat an eye when she does it herself...also she is playing a very high wisdom character yet acts like someone with no common sense at all. i could accept that for the short time she was first away from her tribe but it has been years in game...she has had time to learn...yet she still plays the same preachy child..
Did anyone else notice the guard that said that they had informants who told them the rebellion was going to go on... So they killed him instead of asking who it was?!
I knew as soon as they mentioned Percy's sister what the twist would be and why all the other rebellion attempts failed. The one on the inside was dead.. and she controlled at least one contact on the outside to keep rooting out problems.
I have'nt seen the next episode yet and thought it was auper obvious Percy's sister is a vampire - why the hell else would she still be alive in a vampires manor? Its the only answer I could think of.
Current mood: Keyleth and Vex putting their heads in their hands at the end when Matt tells them about the skeleton army going to kill the entire town they're supposed to be saving.
I get the feeling that, while they may kill the Briarwoods and lift the curse from the land there won't be much of a populace left. It'll feel less like a victory and more like surviving. Not a whole lot of sweet and a fair amount of bitter.
I LOL'ed SO hard when Marisha/ Keyleth said "We are the most capable people in this town right now..." And I just remembered all the plans that never quite work out and thought "...You're the luckiest people in this town right now" lol ;)
No they're high level and what they're facing is quite low. Grog took two rounds of crossbow bolts from a huge number of opponents, including some crits and was still standing.
33:58 meanwhile I'm just thinking "how about you go around finishing the zombie giants and guard, the town will protect you for the long rest and help finish the final storm on the castle"
mojay30 yeah like there needed to be someone who pointed out that level 0 shit tier farmers are out there fighting this stuff off with shit tier weapons. Spells or not they still have magic weapons, and armor, skills, and other abilities.
@@awesomechainsaw To be far Vox Machina never has or sticks to the plan. A guest star had to give them advice on storming Emon. "We need to plan." "Why? We never needed one before."
I can't stand the hate going on here... it looks like the Critters really need a fallguy in this episode. Keyleth goes and wants to help the people that they incited into revolution, rather than sitting around regaining HP's and spells. This is what makes the game epic. Fighting the hard battles. Helping the innocent. There's more to D&D than strategy.
Barney Atkinson-Saul thank you! I just keep seeing comment after comment about marisha being the new Tiberius but her class and character are complex! She stays in character and I think keyleth is stubborn and maybe even fearful but wants to do good for people. I will literally defend her to the death
I think it's due to most of the characters having a chaotic nature. A nuetral nature doesn't stand out. Yet if some of the characters were lawful the outcome could of been different. I wonder in campaign 3 if they'll have lawful good or lawful nuetral characters since most of the characters are chaotic nuetral, chaotic good, or nuetral good. Yet I heard one character in campaign 2 is nuetral overall so there's that.
@@bonepaste_3336 Keyleth is the new Tiberius insofar as people love to hate her, most of the time for things that other players and characters have done with no fandom repercussions.
@@heathprice9529 You mean the one that was working for a vampire? Nobody seems to mind that Grog shattered the other guard's leg off and Vax slit that same now-helpless guard's throat. But sunbeaming the one that can easily call for reinforcements is going too far, I guess.
+Dean Fessenden sometimes stupid is the best plan. well laid plans tend to fall apart anyway. especially when you have the DM sitting across the table from you. I know I use my players plans against them. it makes for more interesting battles or role playing. for them and me. I even award extra xp to the players that call the audibles and take the lead.
+Chris French I tend to be the opposite and go easier if planning was involved and just have a little fun with them when they go in with no planning at all. It makes them take it more seriously the next time.
While I do appreciate you guys finally getting this episode uploaded, there was a bit of footage cut off between the end of part 1 and the start of part 2. If I recall, it was when Keyleth tried one more time to contact Scanlan and finally got through, and THEN she use her sky writing spell. Oh well, at least the episode's up.
Geek & Sundry Unfortunately. Much like a good chunk being missing from the start of episode 3. Still, we all appreciate your efforts in getting this to us.
Kinda surprises me that Percy never makes the connection that all these peasants dying in the streets are HIS people. They swore oaths of fealty to his family, once upon a time, and every time one of them dies, that's because he failed to protect them. He uses the Noble background often enough, that should come with some responsibility.
I actively avoid reading chat. It's frustrating enough seeing them watch the peasants die in what essentially amounts to a pointless holding action; but having to read chat complaining and back seating? No thank you. I always remind myself that this is the first campaign most of the cast had played in, this is their first rebellion. They're often making mistakes for the first time. They deserve all the credit in the world
His HP went from 66 to 101, seems to be mainly from gaining the feat "Tough", and I suspect it was from this event, but this wasn't mentioned at any point (unless I missed it).
I literally can't believe that Keyleth is the one who pushes everyone to carry on with the rebellion they just started......... I know it's a game and your abilities aren't recharged, but your actions have consequences.... there won't be much help of the people that die and will be reanimated as zombies by the necromancers in the castle..... Especially seeing that even depleted, they took out the one zombie giant very easily. They refuse to risk, which is ok, they could die, but they also refuse to go against anything when they're not at their strongest and there are times when you have to push through.... Oh this one hurt real bad.
James I think, and I understand I’m coming to this a year later... but they seem to get distracted pretty easily. So while Matt might be hinting at the giant to reign them in, they’re already distracted by the idea that the tree is making vampires.
@Hannah Shark Nah, worst idea! Already after one hour of short rest they had an army of skeletons running around the city! But an 8-hours rest? Best-case scenario their long-rest would have been interrupted and the situation would have been the same (and that's best-case scenario! A more plausible scenario is those skeletons massacre the entire town and Whitestone is no more!). The truth is, they shouldn't have taken a rest at all: Give a potion to Grog or have Keyleth cast Cure Wounds on him, and another to Percy and/or Scanlan. Keyleth can handle the fight in Elemental form (during which she can't cast spells anyway) and Vex doesn't have an absolute need for spells either; they are useful but she's mostly a martial class. The only one left would be Scanlan, and he still had a few spells up his sleeves I believe, so he could still be useful!
@@hannahshark8080 vex, vax, grog, percy, can all do major dmg without spells. Keyleth still had plenty of spells, and her shapeshifting, one concentration or one elemental shape would have been more than enough. Scan was he only one low kn high lvl apellsspells, but still had plenty of low and mid lvl... He could have supported with cantrips and a few small heals. There was absolutely no need for a long rest at that point, and people died for nothing because of bad planing
With the choices they made. They would have a pyrric/hollow victory. With so many of the populous dead from this rebellion, would there be a town left to save? But none the less a victory is still a victory.
They still freed White Stone from the evil grip of the Briarwoods - and probably rescued Emon and other areas near White Stone from falling to the Briarwoods' influence in the near future.
@@Nr4747 Why pay a higher cost when you can get the same thing for a lower price (i.e. the townspeople who were slaughtered by the giants). I can't for the life of me understand why they just ignored Matt's repeated reminders that the militia was still fighting while the party was dicking around - especially with the whole "we need to be better than the warlords" speeches. Everyone with a good alignment in the party should have been reduced to neutral at best. They weren't there to save the people, but only to help themselves.
I kept thinking that more dead people in the rebellion could mean more enemies to them to fight against. Number one rule when dealing with powerful necromancer enemy is to not let people die.
I hope they understand how responsible they are for the death of that entire town, and the rebellion. If those characters are of good alignment, that should haunt them.
yea it was really sad watching that progress, matt was practically begging them to pay attention to the people :( imo, i feel like they should definitely change their alignment to chaotic neutral at this point, at most true neutral. with the exception of keyleth and maybe vax being lawful neutral probably? i hope they get very serious consequences laid out for them (you probably know more than me though by now LMAO)
well, mainly percies responsibility, it was his plan, his town, his people, started the whole thing, but did all of it badly organized, and when it was time for him to keep his word and help his own damn people, he wanted to go for nap time... percy: neutral evil
@@Laughing_Dragon That depends on how good a party is at keeping some semblance of reason. I've had players die in the first session wandering off the 1st level story to go chase down an adult dragon in a "get rich quick" scheme.
Taken from littlecajunlady's Tumblr (message from me at the bottom) 3:22 - Grog finds a hatch 4:15 - Grog asks Vex or Vax to check the hatch for boobies 9:35 - They burn down the house 11:05 - Break starts 25:30 - Break ends 42:22 - Scanlan sings a song of rest ♪ (They take a short rest then go to the Sun Tree once they hear fights break out. At about 50:30 is when the skeleton horde shows up and they stay and fight, mostly because of Keyleth. They kill a giant, run away, and CLIFFHANGER.) 1:01:55 - Game ends I'm aware these get posted a lot, these are for me so it's at the top but other people can use them cause I like to help people
How the second visit to the Alcove *should* have gone down. Jordana: You mean to tell me, that you fueled the kindling for this peasant revolt, and *my friends* are out there dying for you, but you're hiding in *here??* " VM: ...Yeees? Jordana: " *GET OUT!* And don't come back until you've finished what you *fucking* started!" Tbh, a short rest for Grog to expend some HD and the others to get back at least *some* of their feature uses is the absolute most I could see myself doing, and the most I could see any DM I run with permitting without penalty, given the circumstances.
i still think Percy's sister is on the side of the Brierwoods. the last 2 attempts failed but she "helped" with them and didnt get caught? no shes telling the people when and where to attack so the vamps can wipe out dissenters.
Also, Lord Briarwood can mind control people. Cassandra is probably a commoner in terms of stats, so, I imagine she wouldn't be very difficult to dominate
40:38 "That is why you didn't take the Alertness feat. Then things would have gotten stupid." As a Ranger with Alertness, I can confirm this. Nothing like rolling a 2, but still going before almost your entire party when you have +10 to your initiative. I can't remember the last time someone other than a Rogue went before me.
@@PlagueRunner Reliable Talent doesn't apply to initiative because it isn't a skill. Reliable Talent only applies to skills that you are proficient in. While you may be a very battle hardy party, initiative isn't a skill.
@@copycrow4486 Reliable Talent, as written anyway, says ability checks that get to have proficiency added to it. Initiative is a Dexterity check, so if they happen to have proficiency in Dexterity, it applies.
to those that dont have a handy PHB on hand, the Alert feat is this " Always on the lookout for danger, you gain the following benefits : *You gain a +5 bonus to initiative. * You cant be surprised while you are conscious. * Other creatures dont gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you. " the alert feat is just op as hell
It really feels like there ought to be a downside to that. Like a minus penalty to wisdom or charisma due to paranoia... or a permanent point of exhaustion that can't be overcome.
"We want to start a rebellion to help us!" "The rebellion has begun! ... Let's not get involved." "Shall we take advantage of the opportunity? Nah, let's just chill."
While I would like to agree she did also immediately ignore the first living giant she could actually help leaving 7 villagers to die while looking for corpses that the others could have looked for
@@venrisulven Yikes. She spent most of the episode trying to convince the others, and had kind of given up at that point. Imagine she'd run towards the giant to help, she'd get hate for that too and for putting them in danger or some stupid shit. Like, she can't fucking win.
I love how the chat is mercilessly shitting on Marisha and everyone is screaming about how they have nothing left seconds after they killed a Giant in 1 round taking only 16 damage, all of them at full health and literally only 2 spellcasters, one of which is perfectly fine on spells and the other one being a Bard who has a ton of extra shit he can still use and multiple casts of Lightning Bolt.
Agreed, Keyleth/Marisha is probably the one reason Mercer didn't raze whitestone, since they were gonna abandon the town if she didn't climb the tree... ;(
@@_Ekam2 How is it an asspull and why would Matt not accept it? She used Hunters Mark + her once a long rest Longbow of the Sky Sentinel. Her regular arrows are 1d8+7, her Longbow of the Sky Sentinel lets her once a day fire 2 extra arrows, each doing 1d10+7+1d6. Hunters Mark adds a d4 to all 3 of those attacks, so if she spends a spell slot, uses her once a day ability, and hits with all 3 attack rolls (which is easy against a very low AC zombie giant) she does 1d8+2d10+2d6+3d4+21. The average of that is literally like 51-52 damage. Why use such aggressive accusatory language like "Laura ass pulls 54 damage on one fucking attack!!"? when you have no clue what you're talking about?
It is *very* rough coming back to C1 after C2, they're just so much better at playing their characters and the game in C2. 90% of the party is constantly excessively toeing that line of morality while still being praised as saviors and heroes. They also definitely pay attention to the world around them a *lot* more in C2 and it pays off a lot. I've heard this is probably VM's lowest moral point and most murder-hobo era so hopefully these thoughts on the campaign fade away later on since it is still pretty early in the campaign in comparison to the total episodes. Want to make it clear that I'm not hating, I love the series, just some of my thoughts and takeaway from what I've seen so far in C1. I'm still enjoying it so far, just some things are kind of frustrating to see, but obviously a lot goes into this game, so I trust that they understood what they were doing and had purpose for what they decided to do with their characters. *UPDATE (Spoilers for next episode):* Literally the next episode, Pike comes in and saves their morality lmaooo hopefully that doesn't revert after next episode.
Honestly, them not helping the townsfolk against the giant seems more like inattentiveness than malice to me. And being brutal with vile villains is perfectly fine with me.
Near the end, when Travis keeps telling everyone they need to rest and they can't go out and help the townspeople, I really wish someone had just looked at him and said, "Grog, when that Vampire changed to mist, did it take your spine with it?"
34:00 "They don't like running water" If grog would have panicked and said something like, "Percy they must be after your powder that grants immunity to water's burning effects!"- that would have been perfect.
Oof, Matt gave them a power fantasy of leading a rebellion from a vampire overlord and from the very start they were way more concerned with a fancy hanging tree than the rebellion they let loose and forgot. Not quite the best they can be on this one.
thanks scanlan. a vampire controlled town patrolled by zombie giants is already kinda scary. the horde of skeletons marching through the thunder and rain is a bit scarier. but you just had to make them appear out of the fog, didn't you.
@@DaDunge they probably could have won this entire fight with basic attacks and cantrips... and if they would have done that from thw start probably would habe had 1/10 of the civilian losses...
@Josh D Yeah, that bothered me too. Just when I think VM are going to be thinking through the morality of their choices, they're all shooting fleeing enemies in the back 😞
In fairness to the group, they were working under the assumption that the tree wasn't just dead, but corrupted, and had been serving as the engine to this macabre theme park. That was an assumption that, barring direct intervention by the dm, could only be proven false in hindsight. As such, while investigating the tree was most definitely the wrong thing to do in the circumstance, it wasn't necessarily an evil thing to do, which is why their alignments didn't shift afterwards. It was still painful to watch, but thinking of it this way allows me to watch the second half without spoiling my enjoyment of the episode as a whole too badly.
This! It was definitely frustrating to watch, but everyone’s comments are acting as if the party is very purposefully making these mistakes. They just took out two houses in one go-obviously they had to use up their resources to do that and take a short breather. They made a guess about what was going on and how urgent it was, and they were wrong. That’s what DnD is, that happens. It’s clear they weren’t processing what Matt was saying about the giant battle, it honestly was said so quietly that it might have sounded like the peasants were winning, given that all the other giants were being taken done successfully. This isn’t alignment changing, this is simply players getting too focused on the wrong thing. If you’ve ever played a ttrpg this is just a thing that happens
@@aliciaflood2908the problem is that they "made a guess" when they didn't need to at all. Matt was basically directly telling them to go fight by informing them that there was fighting going on and they would have a shit ton of allies if they went and fought. They had their course of action laid out in front of them (that they chose btw) but were obsessed with resting so they could refill their game resources instead of just adapting to the situation.
Coming back to this, you really have to admire TLoVM for how they rolled with this. Really a glow up for the whole party in this moment. Taking this moment of rank meta cowardice, and turning it into an epic last stand. Almost feels like something Scanlan would do when he was recounting the tale.
"this is really going to be a short 5 minute break because we want to get through as much story as possible before Christmas" *20 minutes later* "alright, were back"
this episode really kinda pissed me off the way the group acted towards marisha. they where trying to start a rebellion, actually started one, and then was like, nope. expect for marisha, she was the only one that was like wtf do you all mean nope? we have to help the civilians, this is our fault, we started this we have to go out there. but no, they decide to sleep. and they want to call themselves the hero's?
The fact that they can spontaneously jump into to harmony parts to create a pretty darn on pitch chord for "Help!" is crazy impressive. I feel like their musical talents don't get enough opportunity to shine.
Sometimes I wonder about these alignments with their actions hahaha. It was still a pretty good episode though! That chat though.. I'm reminded why I tend to always have it closed at all times.
I think people take alignment too serious. In real life we often do stuff that is ''out of character'' for our personality when we absolutely NEED to or when it's for the best. It's much more interesting to roleplay HOW the characters do something and how those actions affects them instead of not doing it at all. In my group we don't even define our alignments, we have our character's behaviour in mind and that's enough. Also yeah, the chat makes me sick. I can't help reading it sometimes and I always regret doing it.
Yeah these generic peasant npc's that are entirely worthless and mean nothing to the over arching plot were definitely worth risking player characters for.
This post has 2 types of people in it.... it's hard to explain but, OP wants to be like a hero that treats all life equal. The first comment, a ruling class elitist, whom says only fellow elites are worth protecting. Or to attempt to say it another way... OP: all life is worth protecting, no matter how weak. First comment: the only lives that matters are the the ones with power.
@@apassionatenerd.3564 You and your family are generic peasants that mean nothing to the over arching plot of life, or the world, or the country you live in, or the state your most likely from, or even the county, or even the city/town you live in. Judging from your comment, I'd guess you don't have much of an impact on the people who live right next to you much less do good for the world. By your metric, your life is meaningless when compared to say... trump.
After watching this Episode I'd like to start a petition to have the chat taken away from the screen permanently. It's so much vinegar and vitriol towards the players that I'm starting to wonder if those are actually fans!? Anyways, I'd enjoy my Critical Role much more if you replaced the chat on screen with something like a fanart-slideshow. Now that'd be my jam!
even when it's it's being positive it's mostly just insipid nothings like "awesome game is awesome" and "lmao". I try to avoid looking at it as much as possible and would support it being removed
100% in agreement with you there, friend. As a matter of fact, we need something of the sort for the RUclips comments. There's just as much toxicity here as there is on Twitch.
+Adam Schwartze I agree with you, but not looking at the Yoputube comments is so much easier than not looking at the chat, because the chat is permanently on screen and moving, screaming for attention.
13:47 Wow! I admired all the art, but I had to stop on this one. Just beautiful. It's cool that people playing d&d can inspire a lot of beauty and creativity to be born.
"So we stoked these poor, unarmed villagers into rebellion against undead murder-giants. Now we could either help them, or take a nap. Nap time it is!" -Heroes of Exandria
29:52 Knock knock... 42:46 Oh my god, I'm so proud. They're gonna tell their grandkids about this someday. 45:46 Oh crap. So either Silas is crafty enough to fake a show of force to get Desmond's trust... or those "corpses" hanging there actually were a nonviolent gesture, because they're just waiting for orders to climb down and start biting people. Or both. And we don't know, because the sun hasn't shone on the Sun Tree since we got to town... 50:50 Is the Horn of Fog an existing magical item in the sourcebooks, or does Mercer get credit for that? Because that is a lovely pun.
43:00 Key was right. The moment the militia emerged they should have gone after the giants piecemeal (one at a time) and sent someone to tell the other militia squads to cool it and distract the giants until Vax Machina could arrive on scene for those giants. Throwing the peasants at the giants just gets them dead, and wastes your own forces. Close to 40', point-blank for Vex, Vax and Perce to start softening it up, then Grog whacks it when it closes. Scanlon and Key on overwatch, and magic buffing if the shit hits the fan. You lot need a tactician or something.
Ahem... Two things that really bothered me about this bit in the episode. And I say this with all due respect because I love the show. Also, I'll try not to spoil any of the future episodes after this one with this post: 1) Everyone thinking that Keyleth was totally and utterly stupid for suggesting that they fight while still weakened. Think about it: they can't afford to rest in the middle of an all-out battle against the zombie giants. She was spot on in saying that the longer they rest and stay hidden, the more people are going to die, and knowing her history, she's sick and tired of innocent lives being snuffed out around her. And besides, considering that people come back as undead in the city, that would mean even more undead to fight later on, thus making them exhaust their replenished spells all over again. And that would prompt the need for another long rest, which would end up wasting more time that the Briarwoods could use to their advantage. There's also the risk of corruption after a long rest, as we've seen in the past two episodes, which would give them more handicaps later on (or so I assume based on Percy's existing corruption). So the less time they spent resting, the more people that were spared a fate worse than death, the less risk there was of corruption spreading to the rest of the party, and the less problems that both the resistance and Vox Machina would have in the long run. 2) The logical leap about the Sun Tree being the "spawning point" of undead. Both the party (well, technically just Scanlan) and the chat room were jumping the gun about that, saying that they needed to not heal the tree but to burn and destroy it. It didn't get any better when upon seeing the cut ropes, they all start assuming that it might be true. Here's the thing: it's not. Once again, Keyleth nailed it on the head. It's not the tree, it's Whitestone itself. And the curse is what caused the tree to die and bring those who've died into the realm of undeath. I know that the party jumping the gun tends to happen a lot, but that leap was painful to see them go through. Granted, they're trying to cram so much into 3-4 hours per session and they tend to get sidetracked quite a bit, so I'm not frustrated about that. Phew... Sorry, I got carried away. I love the show so much that I can't help but point out things to others that they might not understand the first time around. That being said, I've said my piece and got it out of my system. Time to move on.
People hate on keyleth because she's the worst llayer/character in the game. Pushy with her opinions, metagaming all to hell, wildly fluctuating morality (save the innocents, except when I'm murdering them [like the guard after he surrendered]), temper tantrums when things don't go her way, etc
@@flyingninjaodeath So Keyleth is bad because she metagames too much, but also because she killed the guard because her character doesn't know he surrendered......
@@agilemind6241 You think she didn't hear Vex shout "Stop!" and after two seconds say "Now come back here!" Kayleth is supposed to have a very high wisdom score, she should understand, from the way that went down, that the guard surrendered. She could've still just stopped casting her spell or direct it away when she saw the guard just standing there, looking at her. But yes, she does metagame too much, sometimes.
@@Kloetee It was the same round of combat so technically it should have been happening almost simultaneously in a few seconds, and in the heat of battle with Grog raging on one side, Percy firing his very loud gun on another, and a storm outside, Vax shouting at her that no-one be allowed to flee, it wouldn't be easy at all for Keyleth to hear what Vex was saying. People generally don't stop and think in the middle of a battle, and Matt didn't allow anyone an insight check to see if the guy had surrendered or not. Plus I believe Keyleth isn't proficient in Insight so regardless of her Wisdom she isn't supposed to be good a reading people. Wizards are automatically super knowledgeable about plants and animals just because they have high Int and nature is an Int skill.
Love how Jordana just roles with addressing crazy grandma as crazy grandma. Ah God, the voice Laura went with reminds me of the old folks in my home town who used to come up to me and ask if I'd like my blindness to be faith healed, but they sounded battered and country fried rather than British.
Aight I know I'm late to the game but I just gotta say it. I love this party to death but oh my god I am really struggling to get through this episode, you can't inspire the masses to revolt and then just abandon them to die, that's selfish and evil and I can forgive Percy and Scanlan for it bc Percy has two corruption points or whatever and Scanlan is usually pretty self-serving when it comes to battles, but come on. Vax is always trying to be the "good guy" and Vex is supposed to be a good character. I get that they're tapped out and have had a rough battle but it really felt like it was the players and not their characters driving the game. I'm just really upset with the party right now.
Couldn't they have had the spellcasters rest and the guys who don't use spells take control of the rebellion in preparation for the night assault? Would have got everything they needed to done.
Aidan Wedgbury like seriously the bard didnt need rest he had mockery, cutting words, and max inspiration die to give, the druid had tons of spells that could have simply been for healing, everyone had potions, and everyone else would have been good to go in one short rest.
I think it’s because they were a little low on health to take on the giants. If not everyone at least Grog and Trinket were pincushions during the last fight
A warning to anyone who happens to look at the comments before watching: Don't look at the chat when they're playing, it's very toxic and full of people who take this too seriously
You think that the youtube comments are any better? It's all toxic here as well. The only thing that changes is who is being targeted. But general negativity is heavily present here as well. It's just that the "heroes" to Twitch chat are "villains" to youtube comments and vice versa.
@@Squidco-lg2dg I meant in the sense of being a magic caster, or even half caster like Nott. But you are correct on them still being able to use magic. Magician's Judge, Beau's gauntlets.
guys remember the cast are people and this is a GAME. Some of y'all are taking your comments way too far. sure they may have messed up, but this isn't a reason to hate on any of the cast. They're just trying to have fun and play d&d
"Keileth you pick this out, you see what looks like eight ropes dangling from the Sun Tree" and I got chills thinking of the future. Time is a weird soup
Oh man, Matt is so much more generous than I would be in this situation. I mean, i wouldn't flat out kill them for ignoring the obvious allusions to the villagers fighting and dying. But this probably would not have even ended up as the pyrrhic victory that it did. I probably would have had them come back from their 30-60 minute rest only to find that most of the villagers were dead, captured, or scattered into the surrounding wilderness. Even, or more like especially, in DnD battles, that is like an eternity. That's 300 rounds of combat where poorly equipped villagers are fighting on their own. If they actually gave into the urge to take a long rest, then I probably would have to put them in a really bad situation. High likelihood of losing one or more party members, with a moderate risk of TPK for deciding to take a nap in the middle of a rebellion they started.
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Keyleth: Starts climbing the Sun Tree instead of running away
Vax: s t r e s s
Vex: follows her
Vax: S T R E S S
Percy turns around to shoot at the zombie giant, Keileth- "what are you doing?!" Really Marisha?
@@beardedbard6308 Yes, Marisha had call lightning active. which means she could have ran for 30, called a bolt on the giant, kept running. and she could have repeated that for 10 minutes doing 4 D10 damage every 6 seconds. that or what actually happened was Percy stopping dead to fire giving the Giant time to catch up and hit him. tactically speaking Keyleth was completely right with her call.
@@sydney4814 Sorry, but you are 100% wrong that that's a correct call. Assuming the giant has a speed equal to the party(which is probably actually higher than the party's, tbh) it would take the dash action(which all monsters, unless otherwise stated, can do) and catch up to Keyleth quickly. Keep in mind, Keyleth has to use her action to use call lightning each turn, and cannot dash.
@@pyrrhicentropy9403 well you can't attack when you dash, and Vex was still making cheese out of it. Mooore than enough. Percy did waste ammo and took free damage there.
@@Anegor Yes:Keyleth can't attack and dash in the same turn, nor can the giant. The giant could, however, catch up then force Keyleth to disengage or allow an attack of opportunity. If Keyleth decides not to disengage she gets attacked. If he does disengage she gets caught up to by the giant's greater speed then attacked.
Matt: the citizens are fighting the Giant
Party: oooh, look at these ropes
Matt: guys, remember, there's a battle right next to you
Party: so these ropes were cut?
Matt: the giant killed everybody who was fighting him
Party: can we figure out if the bodies fell down from these ropes or?...
Matt: ...
Matt: 100 skeletons come out of nowhere and start running towards you
It is like they seriously did not know what was happening, I'm actually angry and very dissapointed at all of them
yeah.. a lot of face palm moments in this, and the previous episode..
I was really pissed at this. They LITERALLY said "we can't rest, if have to fight the giants before they kill everyone" and then just stood and looked at ropes as the giant killed everyone
@@_oldmanjoel Heh, yeah. That was frustrating to watch :) I've said it before, Vox Machina as a group has a combined IQ of 60 sometimes. It's the too many cooks problem I guess :) I feel like its kind of the same thing that happens when me and my friends have to plan an ambush or an attack. Except we don't have the pressure of thousands of viewers forcing us to make hasted decisions.
@@boohoow I mean but they're not doing this for the viewers. They are doing this based off of the enjoyment of it and the fact that people enjoy watching this. The viewers input very little to the story, if any at all.
Legend says, still to this day, that Tiberius Stormwind is shopping in the endless marketplace of the void.
Here is a thought, he used the circle of teleportation to go to Emon. The Lyceum is in the Cloudtop District. For now they aren't allowed there. He isn't shopping, he got arrested or something.
@@isaacgraff8288 a bit late, but didn't allura finish the circle in the keep?
@@deathfuzz I believe she was still working on it and not completed.
I could be mistaken though.
Isaac Graff Matt has said during the dinner w/ briarwoods that she completed it.
And I don’t think Tiberius would’ve been that smart 😂
This joke doesn't age well after the Chroma Conclave arc.
I do love that the party completely and constantly ignores Matt's attempts to persuade them to actually help the townsfolk and they don't even notice when he tries to let them know they failed (when the giants wrecked that group of people they basically just let die.)
I thought the same. My favorite part was how he stressed it 3 times like "YOU SEE THE BATTLE STILL RAGING BETWEEN THE PEASANTS AND THE GIANT" and there still wasn't the slightest hint of recognition.
James Knoll I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed. I just kept expecting them (especially keyleth with all her talk of helping the people) to go actually do something about the very urgent situation instead they inspect a tree for a couple minutes that still would've been there after they killed the giant and saved the people
don't forget..."i shoot my laser beam at the tree roots, in case that somehow helps plants grow faster"
YES. 100% THIS. They just toddled off to the Sun Tree, and IGNORED PEOPLE DYING. They are SO blind to the world around them sometimes that it's frustrating, as even some of the bastard characters I could play would STILL be helping out the people in this town right now, because Vampire Overlords are worse!
It's really hard to watch the group just ignore an entire group of villagers dying, because they're concerned about the Sun Tree, which isn't going anywhere.
Well 5 of 6 didn't want to lift a finger in the first place. As DM I'd be stripping away all their good alignments right about now, constantly placing their own interests above others is much more neutral than it is good.
Only reason they're even in the city is vengeance and to clear their names. Their actions seem to show they only want to use the rebellion to their own ends.
Mercer: The rebellion you guys wanted so badly is happening, these poorly armed villagers are fighting the giants.
The Group: Nope. We tired.
Totally, I was like: "Argh, you guys! These people are so brave facing these giants on their own, but you (at least the ones that don't need spells) could do so much more and save lifes !"
Yea, one can only hope things won't end too badly here.
Man it was so painful. I get that a lot of them were low, but they didn't have to go all the way for the Briarwooks, just help take out some giants and save the people, then rally them for another fight later.
And people blamed Keyleth for all the parties mistakes this episode despite her being the most willing to fight.
Keyleth roleplayed pretty decently for a 8 intelligence character.
fucking seriously lmao *giant fighting said "poor villagers* "yo, let's get closer to that tree!*
I hope everyone realises how diffent the rebellion would have turned out if Percy, instead of resting, climbed up to the highest building in town and started sniping giants with bad news as they fought the peasants
also, after firing once, the whole town would know he was there.
@@Eddie21k That's sort of the point though. They've been throwing up his symbol everywhere. Rebellions need leaders to unite behind, so they don't just fall into chaos, Percy could have made himself the hero of the Whitestone rebellion, but he wanted to rest instead.
@Chloe McIntire as Widowmaker would say, all it takes is one shot to change everything. If they beat one or two of the Giants with the peasants that means more peasants fighting Giants the others increasing survival odds. At that point they can nap as the mob swarmed.
Chloe McIntire
Percy has very limited ammo. He has to go buy gun powder for crafting bullets due to the fact that he is the only one during the current time who knew how to make them. One of the big limits on gunslinger class due to his high damage out puts
Shingeki no Percy
I really love how Laura and Liam act like actual siblings sometimes. Makes me forget they're not actually, they just happen to have the same birthday.
This whole time I thought they were real life siblings but just not twins, haha
OH SO THATS WHY THEY PLAY TWINS, CAUSE OF SAME BIRTHDAY
FUN
What confused me so much this episode was the people blaming keyleth for trying to keep the riot going, THEN getting upset at her for going to the sun tree when literally everyone else in the party wanted to go there. Why did she get blamed for the sun tree when percy was the one who brought up the idea and everyone else backed him
Its all about game play, they needed to rest and she wanted to keep going. Basically this was asking for a tpk or player death to happen and its only thanks to the DM that they weren't overwhelmed. Role play wise she was justified but gamewise she was not.
@@Ragefor3Dayzsounds like a flaw in mechanics to me.
Kinda justified gamewise in that forwarding time 8 hours in the middle of an uprising probably wouldn't have helped the peasants@@Ragefor3Dayz
Bc sexism and she gets in the way of their fantasies with Vax
Well that was a frustrating episode to watch. Part one, featuring Triceratops Rambo Scanlan, was hilarious and amazing. Part two, ending with the DM practically begging everyone to help the people (that they convinced to fight for them), only to ignore them until they were all dead, was painful to watch.
The party are pretty weakened remember that. And they need to recharge from a long rest. They pretty much describe why they can't do much
Keyleth is not my favorite character but I don't understand the hatred for her and Marisha. Keyleth was 100% right, you can't just start the rebellion and then abandon it to sleep, especially with zero communication. Like yes you need to rest but you rallied the townsfolk, you gotta get out there and help with what you started.
Keyleth: "OMG WE CAN'T JUST LEAVE THE CIVILIANS TO DIE!"
Also Keyleth: "Oh look at this tree, I'm going to climb it, and ignore/interrupt the DM while he's describing the civilians currently trying to survive a zombie giant attack right behind us"
@@jokerlaughirl7484 This isn't an army. Its a fucking rag-tag uprising, incited by the actions of VM, and their opponents are an undead army that are literally always awake and won't stop until they kill everybody or are called off. They don't have the organization or chain of command to strategize shifts to hold a frontline because the whole town is the battlefield, nor do they have a fortified position to fall back to once their momentum has died down. A rebellion like this should, by all means, be a one-time, all-in push with the goal of securing the town. That would at the very least require that they kill all of the giants and find out who in the village is leading the rebellion so that they can organize with them.
Keyleth realizing that the battle is underway and that you have to fucking do something NOW isn't ridiculous, but the rest of the group thinking that a bunch of fucking villagers can survive or even retreat from an undead army while VM takes a rest certainly is.
@@jokerlaughirl7484 tldr is that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Short enough for you?
@@jokerlaughirl7484 No, I was trying to start an intelligent discussion but I've realized you're incapable of that. Have fun with... whatever it is you're trying to do.
I know im extremely late to the party here but wtf is it with people hating on any of the characters. never understood it. Like people seriously getting worked up over this and actually being angry is beyond me. I just dont get it. Its a game, they are playing their characters, mistakes will be made by all, dumb plays, rules not followed....so what? just sit back and enjoy. i cant imagine anyone watching the Dnd sessions i run. talk about people getting mad lol. one more thing i was 100% behind Keyleth's decisions good and bad because it was her choices to make. aslo, not really talking about this thread In particular just the show in general. I post here as a quick look showed recent posts.
I think the whole dilemma of resting vs. fighting could have been prevented if they, y'know, actually went to speak to that Trevor guy in the inn. They completely forgot about him. I'm pretty sure Matt had some plans for him to coordinate the rebellion, but they just went all Rambo on their own :P
It's what i was thinking
Matt has plans for everything. He'd have had a plan if they took the coachman with them, heck, he made a fun story out of cows. The party overlooking obvious (to the viewer) things is what makes it obvious that this is a genuine DND game and not scripted
I figured the only reason villager retaliation happened so quickly was because Vax broke “terrible drunk dad” character and spoke to the other man in the bar who then went to the bartender. I don’t think it could have been really prevented. They didn’t have time or supplies to outfit or train the townsfolk. It was always going to be a fight with casualties
@@Galinda33 far fewer casualties if there had been a few heroes at fairly high level on their side.
I think they should have helped but I still kind of blame the populace I get that they were told to wait and prepare for a rebellion but no one said to attack tonight they just started attacking
The Twitch chat is really starting to bother me. One second they're screaming "metagaming metagaming!!" then the next they're complaining when the players do something that isn't "min / maxing" and goes against what's considered effective or their character doesn't know any better vs going for role play. Disturbs me how much they like to complain just for the sake of complaining.
That's the fandom for ya
So glad they cut it out later or during season 2
@@awesomechainsaw sarcasm or serious? This is my first watch
Lanna's Missing Link I’m serious. They stop having it included at some point on the screen at some point.
@@awesomechainsaw oh good! Cause the negativity from the fans is bugging me.. its finally been quashed onscreen with Orion leaving, but people are turning that hate on Marisha now
Ok this episode breaks my heart because Marisha as Keyleth was trying SO HARD to get the group to do the right thing and help the villagers and Matt as DM tried SO HARD to get the group to join in the fight but everyone else just kept saying no.
The other cast members absolutely disgust me in this episode.
All I can think about is the little npc kids who were smiling at them when they burned the third house and wondering if their parents died because the other PCs have little to no empathy for anyone without a name. If you're gonna start a rigged battle, you have to consider the consequences.
I'm a little confused why Keyleth didn't just go take off running to help and let the others figure it out, like when she took off to find Clarota in the Underdark.
And then Keyleth decides to climb a tree instead of helping those villagers as they're literally getting crushed right behind her, so there you go. Marisha tends to just decide to do stuff without talking to the party, especially when the others have previously decided to not do what she wants.
@@twohorsesinamancostume7606 Marisha/Keyleth spends more time talking about morality than practicing it. She may be correct in her words, but people "who preach water, but drink wine" can be really annoying
Though it’s less grim, I’m glad that the TV show captures some of the disastrous results of Percy’s reluctance.
Grog burns. Grog remembers. Grog learns.
00:00:16 - Scanlan being dumb
00:01:23 - Tylieri's family jewels
00:03:06 - Grog the Explorer
00:04:15 - Check for boobies
00:05:23 - Matt being coy
00:09:54 - Keyleth the firestarter
00:11:18 - End of part 1
00:12:27 - Fan art
00:25:30 - 5 minutes later... Start of part 2
00:28:59 - Jordana Whisk, and a resting dilemma
00:39:02 - Grog learns
00:40:10 - Percy gives his forgotten Headband of Initiative to Vex
00:42:25 - Scanlan sings a song of resting (Help, by The Beatles)
00:44:50 - Scanlan realizes a plot twist
00:46:56 - "Let's go giant-hunting"
00:50:12 - Army of the Dead
00:53:40 - "Stop looking up her skirt, brother"
01:00:32 - The death of a giant
Watch the Critmas episode here: ruclips.net/video/hWDvXAyud6A/видео.html
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I am 100% with Keyleth on this one. The heat Marisha got for this was ridiculous. Vex and Vax are both fighters so spells dont mean shit. Grog had a short rest and had plenty of hit dice to expend, so his hp should be fine. Moreover, Grog is a barbarian, which Travis plays with great pleasure and certainty, but all of a sudden Grog isnt the invincible tank, and he wants to run for the hills? And Percy, who is hellbent on ending the Briarwoods' reign, also agrees to head to the woods? Bullshit.
These are a band of heroes that ignited a rebellion, Keyleth was totally playing to what her character should be and I am 100% behind Marisha's choice.
Do you know how many giants they'd have to face and an army of undead making their way to the group? Are you serious? Vox Machina would've been screwed. This isn't a video game where you control how you play. The entire game of DND is ruled by chance of the dice and realistically no one is invincible in this cast of characters. What's baffling is you seem to ignore this quality based on this one episode and completely forget the other ones where half the crew nearly died from powerful monsters. Not to mention Vex and Vax and Grog aren't able to do everything just because they're phsycial based. Use your head for a change.
Keyleth: Let's help the citizens
Everyone else: no
Keyleth: We need to help the citizens
Everyone else: no
Keyleth: We really should help them
Everyone else: We're going to rest
Keyleth: Now that we're rested lets go help the citizens
Everyone else: Let's go to the tree
Chat: Keyleth is so stupid why does she want to go to the tree instead of the citizens
First off, they didn't rest. Keyleth nagged so much they went out anyway with no spells.
Secondly, when they did get there, instead of helping the citizens, Keyleth messed with a tree while they died. Then when they tried to run, she climbed a tree and shot ice at some skeletons for basically no damage.
Remember. Keyleth killed a child.
@@toreyjones5715 They took a short rest, and it wasn't her idea to go investigate the tree.
@@daniellucas5522 Not to mention the fact that she took out about a third of the army with her ice storm. The rest would've been much easier to pick, had they chosen to, especially with Call Lightning still up (but with their usual frontal assault tactics, they were likely better not). They could have been able to take them all if Tiberius was there for some Blasting spells :P
They were going to have to fight a 100+ army of the undead, not mention that there would also be zombie giants and possibly vampires. Their spell-casters were basically all out of spells (aka no AOE damage) so they were only left with single target attacks. They would quickly be over-run and probably die. So yeah it does suck that the citizens died, but Vox Machina had already done a lot and there's no reason for them to die right there.
Keyleth: "Lets get back out there and take down some giants! What do you guys say?"
Scanlan: "I admire this fire in your eyes but... that's so stupid"
I'm only sad that everyone didnt CHEER Aloud and stand up clapping thier hands when he said that...
Rupti Doolooroodoo This was one of the worst (decision making) episodes I've seen so far. Keyleth is insistent they help the citizens, presented with a chance, "let's all inspect this tree right now while the giant kills everyone".
It was Percy who said they should go towards the tree, not Keyleth. Besides their reasoning was sound: if the tree was indeed related to the spawning of more vampires then it could have been important to know that when trying to understand the machinations of the Briarwoods and their ground forces.
If they had good reason to believe that more foes would start spawning from the tree or the ground around the tree (which had been their theory for a while) then they (Vox Machina) would be the best fighters to handle it while the rest of the civilians handled the giants, especially since it seemed that the rest of the civilians had no knowledge of the Sun Tree being the spawn point. Of course, after this episode we know that the Sun Tree was indeed NOT a spawn point, but at the time of this episode it was a solid theory given everything Vox Machina had experienced up to this point.
Who wants pie? why would the sun tree spawn vampires?
Part of VM's initial theory after examining the Sun Tree (and Vex sensing the undead around them while in the cave under the tree) was that the Briarwoods had somehow corrupted the tree and turned it into some kind of source of necromantic energy. This was supported by the fact that several misty-form vampires attacked the party while they slept in the cave under the Sun Tree.
At one point they theorized that the reason that people were hung from the tree was not only as a show of terror and control but also to turn anything hanging there into vampires. This theory was supported by the fact that the one noble who liked to torture the carriage driver boy was said to have eventually been hung from the tree, something Silas apparently showed the carriage boy. Later, when they faced that same noble in combat they discovered that he was a vampire.
Also they believed that since the Sun Tree was a gift from Pelor, the god of the sun, by corrupting it the Briarwoods would have been essentially corrupting the greatest symbol Whitestone had for defeating the vampires--the sun.
@51:00 The consequences I expected finally bear fruit. They came out of hiding to "help fight Giants to protect civilians" and yet when they come across a live giant battle they stare at ropes in a tree until every last civilian is killed. Matt tried reminding them of the battle repeatedly, and they kept frantically turning their attention to a tree that could wait and theorizing about enemies that were not present from a scenario of "spawning" that may not exist.
*sigh* 51:00 broke my heart to hear the last civilian crushed under the giant's fist... But worse was that it got no response from the players. They didn't even care. 😟
by the time I write this 69 people have liked this. I didn't even read the comment, just wanted everyone to know
I will say it again, I love the RP, but they are the WORST in a fight! They are tactically impotent!!!!
@@Grovesie35 If Matt wanted Tyleri for an arc later he should have never had him get in melee with Grog, or had him turn into a bat and flee as soon as he was below 50% HP. Refusing to allow your players to kill a minor boss by trying to make their abilities useless just makes them feel like the game is rigged against them, just look how much fun they were having up to that point, and then look how little fun they had afterwards.
Knowing that vampires turn into mist and that you are in a city full of vampire, then seeing all your melee fighters clustered around some mist inside a house means it isn't much of a leap to think that mist is probably a vampire, a 17 Intelligence check should have been enough. Or at least letting the other characters tell her it is a vampire.
PS the plan was always to create a distraction at 2nd house to try to draw the giants & other guards away from 3rd house so they had time to wipe 3rd house without being interrupted/discovered. They didn't think ahead to what happens with the rebellion afterwards because VM is really bad at planning.
Also a few episodes back when the deck hand fell off of the air ship i was so hoping keyleth or tiberius would get him but i was sad to find out they just let him go splat... Oh well its a fucking game!
I know, right?! It's frustrating. I'm just watching these now, and it's so damn frustrating sometimes! I've watched all of campaign 2 thus far, so the line between where Marisha starts and antics like this Keylieth end is hard to tell. All in all though, it's just REALLY annoying when the whole party is drained and one party member is adamantly stubborn about running into danger despite what EVERYONE else wants or needs.
Lmfao my old DM would have stopped us as we said we wanted to look at the tree and probably said something like "Okay guys, the rebellion you guys have been brewing is happening. Right now. It's literally happening. The peasants are rising up and by the looks of it they will die without professional help. Now are you SURE you want to investigate the tree right NOW?"
No hate on Matt or Keyleth, they both tried to get the party to do what they've been trying to start for several episodes but...D&D be like that sometimes
After reading the comments, im starting to think I'm the only one who likes Keyleth and Marisha. Keyleth was right about helping the people fight the giants and it seems like she's the only one with morals most of the time. Even Percy, who's from Whitestone, doesn't care about the people living there as long as he gets revenge.
Keyleth is sometimes a bit too goody-two-shoes for me, but I mostly like her overall.
She's awesome and you're right. It's just that Marisha is a woman on the internet and is therefore a 🎯.
@@nousvivons I mean I haven't seen any comments about Laura. Could be that people have a reason to be frustrated with her that doesn't have to do with the fact she's a woman. I would never say Marsha is an idiot/bad person based on how she plays a table top game but the way she continues to flip flop between calling out other characters for doing brutal shit and then does brutal shit herself is pretty frustrating to watch. I'm fine if she was this moral voice in the group all the time but instead she kills a torture victim trapped in the under dark, completely incarnated a guard who had been fleeing, and then completely ignored the civilians that were rebelling when she was the only one who wanted to help them. The flip flopping is pretty frustrating to watch
In Percy's defense, he is not ... himself. His ability to view his own morals clearly and utilize empathy for his people is obscured by the ongoing strain on his soul and the corruption he is under. Keyleth is decidedly right in her moralistic view, but I feel like she's the only one other than Percy (IF he was in his right mind) that would be correct in wrestling with the morals of the situation. Vax (rogue) and Vex (ranger) may or may not have a Good alignment, and I feel like they both run closer to neutral (self-interest) than Good/moral. Grog's spot on, and Scanlan has said before his alignment is "Good .... -ish?" lol
@@mr.correctopinion6754 The thing is, she doesn't wanna kill unless it's necessary for their plan. Keyleth is not an example of good morals, she's a part of a group of mercenaries afterall, she just doesn't wanna go off the rails with their mission by torturing/killing random people
Matt gave them SOOO many opportunities to help against the giants and they really said "if they die they die"
I think it was a mistake to show them a couple of dead giants early on. I get what he was going for, but given the party is clearly reluctant to fight them to begin with, it kind of sends the message that the peasants can take these things down on their own, just with heavy losses. If instead of seeing two dead giants they'd come across a heavily wounded one still being attacked, and had managed to save some lives just by contributing their basic attacks and not using any special abilities, it would have given the message that even exhausted they're still superheroes compared to a peasant militia.
Did you watch the episode or are you just blindly blaming the cast? They literally said they were exhausted and most of the character needed a long rest to recover their strength to even stand a chance against the giants or help. They're STILL WEAKENED
A terrifying thought they don't mention is that there was also a bear hanging from the tree...
Vampire bear!
As a DM, I love it. As a player, I hate and fear it.
+OrionX700 hahaha reeeetweeeet
As an audience member, I'm cackling like a madman :D
What's worse is the child. They might have to end up killing a vampire child. That's messed up
You mean a vam-bear?
I'll go now
The episode where Matt and Marisha are like parents asking the kids to help the REBELLION THAT THEY STARTED, but then the easily distracted kids went to the tree lol
Keyleth is the one that jumped on the tree tho.
@@chibiakamaru I mean she did but she was the one who tried to insist they fight the zombie giants. Percy had said to go to the tree in the first place and since the group had theories that Sun Tree was Super Important they ended up accidentally focusing on it because that's kind of how DnD plays out sometimes lol
If you have a lot of chaos happening narratively, you can easily forget to stay in the scene and get fixated on the wrong thing.
@@MugWitch This, plus it's the GMs job to focus in on important things. If anyone is to really be blamed here it would be Matt but at the end of the day is a game, not real life. People take this far too seriously.
@@zemowit wait what. Blame Matt? What? He tried multiple times to bring attention to the fact the giant was slaughtering the poor villagers. That was entirely VM's fault.
@@TioPatacas What was whose fault? For as long as the group is having fun, there's no problem. You are not running the game for the GM. This is also just THEIR game that they decided to stream, so your pleasure isn't their primary concern. Even if the entire city burned to the ground with no survivors, for as long as VM would feel good playing this session, it would be all that matters. And while we are at it... have you ever played GTA? And if yes, how many civilians and innocents have you killed there? Killing people in GTA and in DnD is the same. For as long as the player(s) are having fun, it's all good. They do not live. They are fictional.
This is probably one part where I'm glad that the animated show took heavy liberties on how to tell it. Yes it was still a massive slaughter in the show, but at least Vox Machina wasn't ignoring the rebellion they started and instead fought alongside the peasants and eventually won. Here it just feels like they dropped the roleplay aspect and were entirely thinking about playing to win.
Vex, Vax, and Scanlan can all be argued as being neutral characters who at this point are more interested in self preservation, or at least preservation of the group. Percy can be argued as being corrupted by the influence of Orthax, who has no interest in fighting undead, since they have no souls for him to feed on. But that's still an issue, it's being argued for them, but it's not actually being shown in roleplay. None of them looked at Keyleth and said, "We're too taxed to continue fighting, especially against six undead giants. We're sorry but we should have made a better plan cause all we've done is riled up people to run to their deaths." Instead we have 5 people saying "No let's rest, we have no spells, we've taken some damage, etc etc," granted Keyleth is their main spellcaster at this point, and even though Scanlan's out of spells, he's still got a lot more utility as a bard.
But that brings us to probably the most confusing character/person. Grog/Travis. Grog, after the short rest, is almost back to his full hp, if I'm not mistaken. He's also always raring for a fight, and has been near frothing at the mouth for this one this whole time they've been in town. Yet suddenly he's wanting to take a full rest. He's not even being Grog, as both Laura and Liam say, "Who are you?" when Travis makes a very non-Grog comment on what they should do.
Meanwhile poor Keyleth is almost begging the group that they have to go do something. In all honesty even if just her, Grog, and Vax go out to gather up any survivors and get the rebellion centralized in a safer location, it would have been better than just waiting for the giants to finish off the peasants.
Besides that there's also a few things just felt forced in. Sam suddenly asking questions about Tylieris, which then causes the party to completely abandon helping the people and instead go look at a dead tree with some ropes. Also doesn't help that when Matt says that only Kyleth notices the ropes don't have the bodies hanging on them, Laura is the one who pushes for them to investigate further, despite Vex having seemingly not noticed the ropes at that point. The entire scenario just felt forced, and it was saddening to just see Marisha and Matt both slowly checking out as they see the rest of the group has no interest in being helpful.
So yeah, I'm very happy that the writers of the Legend of Vox Machina decided, "Eeeeeeh that was a shitty series of scenarios, lets just remake that whole bit." Such as having the team actually interact with Trevor, who was made into a long lost friend of Percy's, etc etc. They kept the utter devastation and heartbreak of the scene with peasants dying left and right, wholly unmatched for something that's even a bit challenging for seasoned adventurers as Vox Machina, but at least Vox Machina were active in there. Huh... maybe that's why it's called "the Legend"
This is a minor point but the next time I watch the animated series, the very end of this comment is going to make me think of it as a legend or story told of the real events in this campaign
Marisha: Hey that mist Grog is attacking, does it look anything like the vampire mist that we fought last night?
Matt: NO METAGAMING
Keyleth: I know we're exhausted, but this peasant uprising will be destroyed without our help!
Party: But... we need a long rest to regain our spell slots...
I'm watching it after LoVM. Unpopular opinion, I prefer the animated show to the campaign, (which is still great! The player and the characters are great!).
I'm sorry we hadn't the chance to see the Underdark arc though... Maybe they could do some episodes or a movie as an extra adventure?
@@janehundson2973 i like the more detail and event’s personally, even though there are things the party do that i disagree with. but, i completely understand why you prefer the show, i love it as well
@@whoiscaroline It depends on what you've watched before, I think. 🤷
I remember I've fallen in love with VM since episode 1 and I didn't know its origin. The show is definitely shorter, but it has a lot of punchy moments and makes you realize that the characters are assholes, but with hearts of gold.
At first they wanted to escape from the dragon, but then when they saw the dead child they showed that deep down they care about people.
I know that in the campaign their better sides will come out in the future, but for now most of them did very questionable things.
I like how VM was like “ok lets just tell everyone to stop rebelling while we take a long rest. I’m sure the Briarwoods and all the undead will be very cool with that and not just kill everyone instead.” I love this show but the second half of this episode was very something else. Also Matts face when all the villagers die while VM looks at a tree.
Yeah, I honestly couldn't even believe that was happening. What the actual f, lol
Metagaming is the worst sin possible to be avoided at all costs until you're arguing to take an 8 hour nap in the middle of a revolution you started because you blew all of your resources on a single encounter.
People act like they can't do ANYTHING without a rest, but you just can't do your cool shit. You can still swing an axe, fire a bow or a gun, use a wand or a cantrip. A L12 adventurer can do a hell of a lot more damage at the end of their day than a L1 peasant can at the start of theirs.
@@johnnye87to be fair, if you are a spell caster (mostly Scanlan here since by all means Keyleth is a moon druid) you are a big fucked, and going against a vampire and powerful caster is pretty deadly if you are worn out and one player has nothing of real value to offer.
This will be interesting when they animate it. All of them standing around looking at a tree, while people are being slaughtered in the background.
Hahaha, I really hope they're including that! Never Forget
I wonder if they are going to make the party more heroic in the animated series, I've finished c2 and this is my first watch of c1 and man this party are some serious assholes.
@@a.garcha199 yup. Like the MN are assholes at times but they know it. VM are *ASSHOLES* and think they're the best
@@laura-lydia7610 At least until Taryon Darrington joins the party. He kind of embodies all their worst traits and forces Vox Machina to look in a mirror when dealing with him.
It was heartbreaking seeing Sam change characters the way he did but I think that Bard's lament and Tary's self grandizing and using them strictly for his benefit, at first, really helped to humble the party.
@@Dragon_Lair Oh shit did I just spoil myself for Googling Taryon? He's played by you know who does that mean the character you know who is playing right now died???
I am so disappointed, for a while VM was all like " we need friends, allies, let's build a militia!" And then as soon as they get their allies, they leave them all to die.... just... come on...
I know right? I wonder what they would do in real life.. but then again this os a role playing game so I guess I already got my answer 😬
they didn't leave them all to die. they helped kill one, saw the villagers take down one, and killed a giant as well. so three out of the six were dead. the one giant by the sun tree won it's fight, until the Keeper and the rest got to it. remember when the skeletons showed up, the Keeper and the villagers were fighting, and they'd killed the gaints. which is why the Keeper was questioning/upset when they started to call for retreat when they noticed the sheer numbers of skele's the birarwoods sent. I think too many people are acting like the giant fight by the sun tree was ALL the villagers against the last giant. it wasn't. it was one team vs one of the last ones.
by the time the skeletons show up, it was basically the villagers had killed 5 giants out of six, one of them with grog and scanlan's help. and VM killed on on thier own. so it wasn't like the giant's steamrolled them or killed them all in the fight by the sun tree.
I think the villagers were doing like 4-6 people at least per giant. so by the sun tree, 6 villagers died. there were other deaths as well, but the vast majority of the villagers lived, even without VMs help on most of the fights.
@@leovincent7417 If you think that DnD is any indication of real life behavior, then I have bad news for you. Unless you want to criticize fans of GTA for killing innocent people, you really shouldn't be all too bothered that this group of fictional heroes - played by their players for their own satisfaction - isn't saving fictional peasants as effectively as you would have liked.
@@TheOneTrueMar Lets see. 1 is a game where you play as a criminal and the other is where in the general sense you play as heroes.
Having rewatched this whole thing, I think there was some weird mixed messages between the party and the DM. The party didn't think the town was quite ready to rise up. They were asking how to convince them to rebel and learned that it would be very helpful to kill Lord Tylieri. They were planning on going all out to kill him and then trying to rally the townspeople the next day. That also seemed to be what Matt was suggesting would happen, since the NPC said the townspeople were being cautious. The party was pretty convinced that when the rebellion started, they might face an entire army of vampires, after just 3 of them made for a moderately difficult encounter the previous night, so they wanted to have everything ready before fighting.
But Matt actually had the whole town rise up before the party had really recruited anyone. It didn't really make narrative sense and they weren't able to really roll with the punches, and Grog had taken so much damage they were all concerned about what else they might face.
It doesn't excuse how silly it was for them to decide to go kill the giants and then suddenly ignore the giants when they saw the tree, though.
Late to this as I binge to catch up, but this episode really made clear that Keyleth is arguably the only one of VM who isn't a murderhobo. Vax I might make a case in defense of against the title, but how easily they shrug off mass death of others blew me off guard. That is their character right, but it shocks me is all. She's very refreshing to my outcry of morality, even if they all just ignored the people dying to that one giant ._. player mistakes though, they were struck by dread of the idea of being at a spawning point of vampires so I can forgive that.. Keyleth was far from my favorite early in the series but she's one of the beacons for me as she so very much treats the people in this world as very real people and not just 'npcs'
I prefer Pike as the good morality. Keyleth is constantly betraying her morality, probably because Marisha FORGETS and then suddenly has to cram 3 months of "OH RIGHT IM A GOOD GUY" by crying about one person they killed when in any other world she'd be a monster herself.
@@mentallyderangeddoggirl she IS a monster...just one that has a consciience every now and then...pike has done it like a grand total of 5 or less times...i believe...where keyleth has slummed it with the others time and time again...also fairly sure if she was actually following the druid morality, like she claims, she would be against cities and for nature more often than she is...but i dont get to play a druid that often so i am not sure there
Right!? Everyone says Vox Machina is a bunch of heroes and Mighty Nien are the morally grey ones but I would argue it's the opposite. The Mighty Nein have empathy at the very least, Vox Machina are a bunch of unlikeable murder-hoboing megalomaniacs with inflated stats.
@@alleycat2297 i agree completely. Vox machina disgusts me. M9 are bad too, but at least they don't *pretend* to be good
@@SocialistSadako I'm trying really hard to like Vox Machina, and so far it's been a hit and a miss. The worst part is that every NPC regards them as crowned heroes and due to the fact that they're at a high level (with ridiculously min maxed stats) they practically blow through every encounter without much of a sweat, so there isn't any room for development or realising that there are consequences for their actions. The M9 don't pretend to be on higher moral ground, while Vox Machina genuinely act like they have the right to talk moral qualms when they slaughter anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with them. It's disappointing, but I'm trying to give C1 the benefit of the doubt since it was years ago and they've all come a long long way as roleplayers and PCs since then.
Love everyone in chat clamoring about how skeletons are resistant to bludgeoning damage and immune to cold when they absolutely aren't in 5e. They actually take more bludgeoning damage than normal.
Damien Voidstar in all fairness it wasnt super obvious which edition Critrole was at the time. The game started as pathfinder if i recall? Or 3.5 (more or less the same) and then when they started streaming they changed to 5th edition rules with some home brewed rules. And stayed that way till campaign 2 where it was strictly all 5th edition.
when have skeletons...ever...been resistant to blunt? slashing and piercing yeah...but bludgeon damage...you are crushing them...in all the versions ive played blunt has always been the skeletons weakness
@@reienna6410 Exactly, but if you watch the chat there's a part where people talk about it. I don't even know why lol.
@@jcoonie2 It was clear. The specific in the first couple of episodes it's 5e. With some homebrewed rules, mainly grog and percys class. It wasn't muddy at all, Matt made a point of mentioning it several times across the first couple of episodes.
Someone tried to claim lightning against the zombie giants was bad, because they called them flesh golems. I think it was pretty clear that was not what those giants were, but people are really looking to find issues where there are none
Wow. The division in the comments on this one are crazy.
For what it's worth, I feel for the players a little here.
From a narrative standpoint, Keyleth is entirely right. They are committed. Sure they're worn down but that's where their poor planning left them. The rebellion's started and every minute they take to rest people are dying, weakening their side of the conflict.
But from a mechanical, GAMEPLAY standpoint... Travis is right. They are too personally resource-poor to take on the Briarwoods. They cannot "win" the "boss fight" without resting and they have no way of knowing when they will be forced into that fight or if they will have a better opportunity to rest than now. It's one of the problems with the recovery system for d&d--it forces narratively vexing rests on players to recover resources, which can grind the momentum to a halt.
Honestly, I think I might have just leveled with the players and TOLD them what should have been obvious to their characters (considering that starting a rebellion was their plan). Right now, they are personally weak but have a large army and the enemy has had only limited time to organize resistance against you. The longer you wait, you will regain more of your personal resources for the grid-based tactical combat but will have far fewer narrative resources (element of surprise, the army, etc). You started this. You know your alignments. Are these townspeople resources to sacrifice to help you kill the Briarwoods or is saving them the OBJECTIVE and killing the Briarwoods the means to an end?
Matt: "All of you drop 1 Alignment"
Matt would not make them take on the Boss fight without a rest.. he literally let half the party take a full rest just outside the Rakshasa lair, a fiend that flees when threatened and shouldn't have been there the next day or attacked them while they slept right outside. All they had to do was take out a a handful of zombie giants, with the help of a small militia of NPCs. Keyleth was right in the narrative position and Travis was 100% wrong on the mechanics of it and the RP of it.. Grog wouldn't say we have no resources, he'd be like "Yay!! Something to else to hit. Best day EVER!!"
Well the point of this adventure isn’t to save Whitestone or its people, it’s for Percy to get revenge on the Briarwoods and clear VM’s names. At least as far as their characters are concerned
@@tristenweaver8246 That was just the adventure hook.. not the greater narrative. Matt always has a greater story to his adventures with deeper implications, you are looking at it through the classic murder hobo lens.
This isn't a dnd recovery problem. You can't keep fight all day, throwing massive spells left and right. They had a big fight and they are exhausted. Does it make moral sense for them to keep going? Yes. Should they be as good as new? Hell no. This is a direct consequense of their poor planning and it is as it should be.
Rewatching early episodes is tough seeing how toxic the chat normally was and how much they picked on keyleth/Marisha. She wanted to help the villagers, everyone else wanted to go to the tree. Chat blames her for going to the tree. Then when she tries to help and fight the skeletons they complain that she’s fighting and not running. Early episodes I just try to avoid the comments as much as I can cos it’s the same shit haha
Keyleth tends to be either entierly right or entierly wrong, very little in-between. She was entierly right here and people don't like it
The thing is people hate on Marisha for playing her character the way she intended which is a bit mean.
@@bengm7678 I've got theories about why people hate marisha, very few involve how she plays her character
@@chrism6315 i dont really care for how she play her characters because she tends to be overly self righteous towards others but tends not to bat an eye when she does it herself...also she is playing a very high wisdom character yet acts like someone with no common sense at all. i could accept that for the short time she was first away from her tribe but it has been years in game...she has had time to learn...yet she still plays the same preachy child..
@@chrism6315 I know what you mean. It's ugly af of them.
Did anyone else notice the guard that said that they had informants who told them the rebellion was going to go on... So they killed him instead of asking who it was?!
Sir Guinea Pig It’s worth mentioning it was a good RPing moment.
I knew as soon as they mentioned Percy's sister what the twist would be and why all the other rebellion attempts failed. The one on the inside was dead.. and she controlled at least one contact on the outside to keep rooting out problems.
@@azarinevil Is this a spoiler from a next episode, really? No spoiler alert, you are that "good"?
I have'nt seen the next episode yet and thought it was auper obvious Percy's sister is a vampire - why the hell else would she still be alive in a vampires manor? Its the only answer I could think of.
@@neshirst-ashuach1881 I agree... Pretty much necessitated
Current mood: Keyleth and Vex putting their heads in their hands at the end when Matt tells them about the skeleton army going to kill the entire town they're supposed to be saving.
I get the feeling that, while they may kill the Briarwoods and lift the curse from the land there won't be much of a populace left. It'll feel less like a victory and more like surviving. Not a whole lot of sweet and a fair amount of bitter.
You'd be suprised allthough this is a 4 year old comment so i geuss not
I LOL'ed SO hard when Marisha/ Keyleth said "We are the most capable people in this town right now..." And I just remembered all the plans that never quite work out and thought "...You're the luckiest people in this town right now" lol ;)
No they're high level and what they're facing is quite low. Grog took two rounds of crossbow bolts from a huge number of opponents, including some crits and was still standing.
33:58 meanwhile I'm just thinking "how about you go around finishing the zombie giants and guard, the town will protect you for the long rest and help finish the final storm on the castle"
mojay30 yeah like there needed to be someone who pointed out that level 0 shit tier farmers are out there fighting this stuff off with shit tier weapons. Spells or not they still have magic weapons, and armor, skills, and other abilities.
@@awesomechainsaw To be far Vox Machina never has or sticks to the plan. A guest star had to give them advice on storming Emon.
"We need to plan."
"Why? We never needed one before."
@@Wanttowrite I agree in theory.
But, in their reality, they have a *Scanlan!* hahah
That every morning Con save is the clearest "get on with storming the castle" a DM can give
I can't stand the hate going on here... it looks like the Critters really need a fallguy in this episode. Keyleth goes and wants to help the people that they incited into revolution, rather than sitting around regaining HP's and spells. This is what makes the game epic. Fighting the hard battles. Helping the innocent. There's more to D&D than strategy.
Barney Atkinson-Saul thank you! I just keep seeing comment after comment about marisha being the new Tiberius but her class and character are complex! She stays in character and I think keyleth is stubborn and maybe even fearful but wants to do good for people. I will literally defend her to the death
I think it's due to most of the characters having a chaotic nature. A nuetral nature doesn't stand out. Yet if some of the characters were lawful the outcome could of been different. I wonder in campaign 3 if they'll have lawful good or lawful nuetral characters since most of the characters are chaotic nuetral, chaotic good, or nuetral good. Yet I heard one character in campaign 2 is nuetral overall so there's that.
@@bonepaste_3336 Keyleth is the new Tiberius insofar as people love to hate her, most of the time for things that other players and characters have done with no fandom repercussions.
@@bonepaste_3336 Whe Dont Talk about that guard guy she use sunbeam on who was running away for is life and intimidated
@@heathprice9529 You mean the one that was working for a vampire? Nobody seems to mind that Grog shattered the other guard's leg off and Vax slit that same now-helpless guard's throat. But sunbeaming the one that can easily call for reinforcements is going too far, I guess.
Worst rebellion planning EVER
and yet.... it worked.
+Chris French Success does not a good plan make
+Dean Fessenden sometimes stupid is the best plan. well laid plans tend to fall apart anyway. especially when you have the DM sitting across the table from you. I know I use my players plans against them. it makes for more interesting battles or role playing. for them and me. I even award extra xp to the players that call the audibles and take the lead.
+Chris French I tend to be the opposite and go easier if planning was involved and just have a little fun with them when they go in with no planning at all. It makes them take it more seriously the next time.
+Dean Fessenden I like to force them to think outside the box. they get more invested in my experience.
While I do appreciate you guys finally getting this episode uploaded, there was a bit of footage cut off between the end of part 1 and the start of part 2. If I recall, it was when Keyleth tried one more time to contact Scanlan and finally got through, and THEN she use her sky writing spell.
Oh well, at least the episode's up.
+Tony Le At the very least, the episode's up. I guess now they'll keep it from going so long.
+Adam Schwartze unfortunately that part of the stream was lost to the technical difficulty gods.
Geek & Sundry Unfortunately. Much like a good chunk being missing from the start of episode 3. Still, we all appreciate your efforts in getting this to us.
+Geek & Sundry They have not been kind of late.
+Adam Schwartze Thanks for telling us :) I was wondering if there was something missing.
Kinda surprises me that Percy never makes the connection that all these peasants dying in the streets are HIS people. They swore oaths of fealty to his family, once upon a time, and every time one of them dies, that's because he failed to protect them. He uses the Noble background often enough, that should come with some responsibility.
Matt gave them so many chances to save those villagers at the sun tree fighting the undead giant and they got completely ignored, poor bastards.
There’s really no rage like the rage I feel having to watch the live chat box lol
I actively avoid reading chat. It's frustrating enough seeing them watch the peasants die in what essentially amounts to a pointless holding action; but having to read chat complaining and back seating? No thank you. I always remind myself that this is the first campaign most of the cast had played in, this is their first rebellion. They're often making mistakes for the first time. They deserve all the credit in the world
I approve of Scanlan "Rambo" Shorthalt.
Witsniper Scambo baby
The D&D version of Sly Marbo
His HP went from 66 to 101, seems to be mainly from gaining the feat "Tough", and I suspect it was from this event, but this wasn't mentioned at any point (unless I missed it).
Keyleth: LETS'S FIGHT!!
Party: I need a nap.
I literally can't believe that Keyleth is the one who pushes everyone to carry on with the rebellion they just started......... I know it's a game and your abilities aren't recharged, but your actions have consequences.... there won't be much help of the people that die and will be reanimated as zombies by the necromancers in the castle..... Especially seeing that even depleted, they took out the one zombie giant very easily. They refuse to risk, which is ok, they could die, but they also refuse to go against anything when they're not at their strongest and there are times when you have to push through.... Oh this one hurt real bad.
*Facepalm.* You had a chance to save those innocent people Vox Machina!
James I think, and I understand I’m coming to this a year later... but they seem to get distracted pretty easily. So while Matt might be hinting at the giant to reign them in, they’re already distracted by the idea that the tree is making vampires.
They should have rested. Once spells are used half their team is mostly useless
@Hannah Shark Nah, worst idea! Already after one hour of short rest they had an army of skeletons running around the city! But an 8-hours rest? Best-case scenario their long-rest would have been interrupted and the situation would have been the same (and that's best-case scenario! A more plausible scenario is those skeletons massacre the entire town and Whitestone is no more!). The truth is, they shouldn't have taken a rest at all: Give a potion to Grog or have Keyleth cast Cure Wounds on him, and another to Percy and/or Scanlan. Keyleth can handle the fight in Elemental form (during which she can't cast spells anyway) and Vex doesn't have an absolute need for spells either; they are useful but she's mostly a martial class. The only one left would be Scanlan, and he still had a few spells up his sleeves I believe, so he could still be useful!
@@ChevaliersEmeraude Not to mention Vex used two spells in the first fight. She has plenty left.
@@hannahshark8080 vex, vax, grog, percy, can all do major dmg without spells.
Keyleth still had plenty of spells, and her shapeshifting, one concentration or one elemental shape would have been more than enough.
Scan was he only one low kn high lvl apellsspells, but still had plenty of low and mid lvl...
He could have supported with cantrips and a few small heals.
There was absolutely no need for a long rest at that point, and people died for nothing because of bad planing
With the choices they made. They would have a pyrric/hollow victory. With so many of the populous dead from this rebellion, would there be a town left to save? But none the less a victory is still a victory.
They still freed White Stone from the evil grip of the Briarwoods - and probably rescued Emon and other areas near White Stone from falling to the Briarwoods' influence in the near future.
@@Nr4747 Why pay a higher cost when you can get the same thing for a lower price (i.e. the townspeople who were slaughtered by the giants). I can't for the life of me understand why they just ignored Matt's repeated reminders that the militia was still fighting while the party was dicking around - especially with the whole "we need to be better than the warlords" speeches. Everyone with a good alignment in the party should have been reduced to neutral at best. They weren't there to save the people, but only to help themselves.
I kept thinking that more dead people in the rebellion could mean more enemies to them to fight against. Number one rule when dealing with powerful necromancer enemy is to not let people die.
@@YinYangLogo they didnt send those random farmer npcs after the undead giants, that shit isn't their fault, those farmers are fucing stupid
@@apassionatenerd.3564 they literally talked about building a rebellion for multiple episodes
I hope they understand how responsible they are for the death of that entire town, and the rebellion. If those characters are of good alignment, that should haunt them.
yea it was really sad watching that progress, matt was practically begging them to pay attention to the people :(
imo, i feel like they should definitely change their alignment to chaotic neutral at this point, at most true neutral. with the exception of keyleth and maybe vax being lawful neutral probably? i hope they get very serious consequences laid out for them (you probably know more than me though by now LMAO)
@@ofmuses grog is very much chaotic neutral and percy and scandalan are borderline chaotic neutral
well, mainly percies responsibility, it was his plan, his town, his people, started the whole thing, but did all of it badly organized, and when it was time for him to keep his word and help his own damn people, he wanted to go for nap time...
percy: neutral evil
@@Darksnakemrniceguy especially with the smoke guy thing-whatever it is.
@@Darksnakemrniceguy yeeeeaaaaahhh i mean, especially since he's been corrupted and stuff. I don't think it was on purpose, but it fits? Sorta?
*flicks through comments for 20 seconds*
Oh, this is gonna be a fun one...
Someone in the chat: "How long does a game like this last."
Me: "YEARS"
I thought it was all of your life...not just simply years...
@@Laughing_Dragon That depends on how good a party is at keeping some semblance of reason. I've had players die in the first session wandering off the 1st level story to go chase down an adult dragon in a "get rich quick" scheme.
"Let's get out there and help the common folk in their uprising against zombie death giants!"
"Oh hey a tree".
Oh lets incite my people to riot... oh look its naptime...
At least it make sense for a druid to priotize a tree...
Taken from littlecajunlady's Tumblr (message from me at the bottom)
3:22 - Grog finds a hatch
4:15 - Grog asks Vex or Vax to check the hatch for boobies
9:35 - They burn down the house
11:05 - Break starts
25:30 - Break ends
42:22 - Scanlan sings a song of rest ♪
(They take a short rest then go to the Sun Tree once they hear fights break out. At about 50:30 is when the skeleton horde shows up and they stay and fight, mostly because of Keyleth. They kill a giant, run away, and CLIFFHANGER.)
1:01:55 - Game ends
I'm aware these get posted a lot, these are for me so it's at the top but other people can use them cause I like to help people
How the second visit to the Alcove *should* have gone down.
Jordana: You mean to tell me, that you fueled the kindling for this peasant revolt, and *my friends* are out there dying for you, but you're hiding in *here??* "
VM: ...Yeees?
Jordana: " *GET OUT!* And don't come back until you've finished what you *fucking* started!"
Tbh, a short rest for Grog to expend some HD and the others to get back at least *some* of their feature uses is the absolute most I could see myself doing, and the most I could see any DM I run with permitting without penalty, given the circumstances.
i still think Percy's sister is on the side of the Brierwoods. the last 2 attempts failed but she "helped" with them and didnt get caught? no shes telling the people when and where to attack so the vamps can wipe out dissenters.
Also, Lord Briarwood can mind control people. Cassandra is probably a commoner in terms of stats, so, I imagine she wouldn't be very difficult to dominate
40:38 "That is why you didn't take the Alertness feat. Then things would have gotten stupid."
As a Ranger with Alertness, I can confirm this. Nothing like rolling a 2, but still going before almost your entire party when you have +10 to your initiative. I can't remember the last time someone other than a Rogue went before me.
I know its been 2 years but rogue Dex20 + Alert + Reliable talent means you get a 20 initiative every roll
@@PlagueRunner Reliable Talent doesn't apply to initiative because it isn't a skill. Reliable Talent only applies to skills that you are proficient in. While you may be a very battle hardy party, initiative isn't a skill.
@@copycrow4486 Reliable Talent, as written anyway, says ability checks that get to have proficiency added to it. Initiative is a Dexterity check, so if they happen to have proficiency in Dexterity, it applies.
@@tiatrips You can't have proficiency in a basic ability check, though. Only on skill checks and saving throws.
@@AshtonMonitor That's true. Don't know how I forgot that. Thanks.
to those that dont have a handy PHB on hand, the Alert feat is this " Always on the lookout for danger, you gain the following benefits : *You gain a +5 bonus to initiative. * You cant be surprised while you are conscious. * Other creatures dont gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being hidden from you. " the alert feat is just op as hell
It really feels like there ought to be a downside to that. Like a minus penalty to wisdom or charisma due to paranoia... or a permanent point of exhaustion that can't be overcome.
"We want to start a rebellion to help us!"
"The rebellion has begun! ... Let's not get involved."
"Shall we take advantage of the opportunity? Nah, let's just chill."
Keyleth was the MVP this time! Only character that shows ANY sense of actual empathy for the villagers they are supposed to be saving! ❤️❤️
While I would like to agree she did also immediately ignore the first living giant she could actually help leaving 7 villagers to die while looking for corpses that the others could have looked for
@@venrisulven Yikes. She spent most of the episode trying to convince the others, and had kind of given up at that point. Imagine she'd run towards the giant to help, she'd get hate for that too and for putting them in danger or some stupid shit. Like, she can't fucking win.
I love how the chat is mercilessly shitting on Marisha and everyone is screaming about how they have nothing left seconds after they killed a Giant in 1 round taking only 16 damage, all of them at full health and literally only 2 spellcasters, one of which is perfectly fine on spells and the other one being a Bard who has a ton of extra shit he can still use and multiple casts of Lightning Bolt.
Agreed, Keyleth/Marisha is probably the one reason Mercer didn't raze whitestone, since they were gonna abandon the town if she didn't climb the tree... ;(
Had I started watching Critical Role with Vox and not The Nein, I would not have stayed. Keyleth is the only character that is decent and interesting.
@@AlanCarlinoJr85 Keyleth is great but this is a fairly shit opinion
thats because somehow Laura is able to ass pulls 54 damage on one fucking attack out of thin air and matt just accepts it
@@_Ekam2 How is it an asspull and why would Matt not accept it? She used Hunters Mark + her once a long rest Longbow of the Sky Sentinel. Her regular arrows are 1d8+7, her Longbow of the Sky Sentinel lets her once a day fire 2 extra arrows, each doing 1d10+7+1d6. Hunters Mark adds a d4 to all 3 of those attacks, so if she spends a spell slot, uses her once a day ability, and hits with all 3 attack rolls (which is easy against a very low AC zombie giant) she does 1d8+2d10+2d6+3d4+21. The average of that is literally like 51-52 damage.
Why use such aggressive accusatory language like "Laura ass pulls 54 damage on one fucking attack!!"? when you have no clue what you're talking about?
Does anyone make multiple pauses during the fan art montage to enjoy each piece?
Can't possibly be - those are so interesting, each so unique!
It is *very* rough coming back to C1 after C2, they're just so much better at playing their characters and the game in C2. 90% of the party is constantly excessively toeing that line of morality while still being praised as saviors and heroes. They also definitely pay attention to the world around them a *lot* more in C2 and it pays off a lot. I've heard this is probably VM's lowest moral point and most murder-hobo era so hopefully these thoughts on the campaign fade away later on since it is still pretty early in the campaign in comparison to the total episodes. Want to make it clear that I'm not hating, I love the series, just some of my thoughts and takeaway from what I've seen so far in C1. I'm still enjoying it so far, just some things are kind of frustrating to see, but obviously a lot goes into this game, so I trust that they understood what they were doing and had purpose for what they decided to do with their characters. *UPDATE (Spoilers for next episode):* Literally the next episode, Pike comes in and saves their morality lmaooo hopefully that doesn't revert after next episode.
Honestly, them not helping the townsfolk against the giant seems more like inattentiveness than malice to me. And being brutal with vile villains is perfectly fine with me.
Near the end, when Travis keeps telling everyone they need to rest and they can't go out and help the townspeople, I really wish someone had just looked at him and said, "Grog, when that Vampire changed to mist, did it take your spine with it?"
Or remind him that they have something like 10 health potions between them.
@@DaDunge or that they could take out most of the undead with cantrips and basic attacks...
Yeah, I love Travis but it seemed out of character and weird for him. Ignoring all morality, when has Grog turned down a chance to fight?
34:00 "They don't like running water"
If grog would have panicked and said something like, "Percy they must be after your powder that grants immunity to water's burning effects!"- that would have been perfect.
4:16 - Boob Check
6:38 - Typical Percy
9:34 - Vox Machina: Pyromaniacs
11:17 - Break Begins
25:30 - Break Ends
42:23 - Scanlan's Song of Rest
Oof, Matt gave them a power fantasy of leading a rebellion from a vampire overlord and from the very start they were way more concerned with a fancy hanging tree than the rebellion they let loose and forgot. Not quite the best they can be on this one.
thanks scanlan. a vampire controlled town patrolled by zombie giants is already kinda scary. the horde of skeletons marching through the thunder and rain is a bit scarier.
but you just had to make them appear out of the fog, didn't you.
Pussy.
Scanlan is the one who's stupid. I am so furious at Sam Riegel for calling keyleth dumb when he's making all the dumb decisions
Theyre what level 12? 13? At this point. They should be able to level a small army even when at half capacity.
@@DaDunge they probably could have won this entire fight with basic attacks and cantrips... and if they would have done that from thw start probably would habe had 1/10 of the civilian losses...
I'm happy Keyleth is at least somewhat concerned about morality and not just winning.
Kleckas to be fair, she actively tried to get the others to help but she got shut down every time so 🤷♀️
then she lets the giant kill everyone while she stares at a tree.
This is why they needed Pike. Pike could have backed up Keyleth.
@@Anegor not just "she", "they". They all failed.
@Josh D Yeah, that bothered me too. Just when I think VM are going to be thinking through the morality of their choices, they're all shooting fleeing enemies in the back 😞
In fairness to the group, they were working under the assumption that the tree wasn't just dead, but corrupted, and had been serving as the engine to this macabre theme park. That was an assumption that, barring direct intervention by the dm, could only be proven false in hindsight. As such, while investigating the tree was most definitely the wrong thing to do in the circumstance, it wasn't necessarily an evil thing to do, which is why their alignments didn't shift afterwards. It was still painful to watch, but thinking of it this way allows me to watch the second half without spoiling my enjoyment of the episode as a whole too badly.
This! It was definitely frustrating to watch, but everyone’s comments are acting as if the party is very purposefully making these mistakes. They just took out two houses in one go-obviously they had to use up their resources to do that and take a short breather. They made a guess about what was going on and how urgent it was, and they were wrong. That’s what DnD is, that happens. It’s clear they weren’t processing what Matt was saying about the giant battle, it honestly was said so quietly that it might have sounded like the peasants were winning, given that all the other giants were being taken done successfully. This isn’t alignment changing, this is simply players getting too focused on the wrong thing. If you’ve ever played a ttrpg this is just a thing that happens
@@aliciaflood2908the problem is that they "made a guess" when they didn't need to at all. Matt was basically directly telling them to go fight by informing them that there was fighting going on and they would have a shit ton of allies if they went and fought. They had their course of action laid out in front of them (that they chose btw) but were obsessed with resting so they could refill their game resources instead of just adapting to the situation.
Coming back to this, you really have to admire TLoVM for how they rolled with this. Really a glow up for the whole party in this moment. Taking this moment of rank meta cowardice, and turning it into an epic last stand. Almost feels like something Scanlan would do when he was recounting the tale.
"this is really going to be a short 5 minute break because we want to get through as much story as possible before Christmas" *20 minutes later* "alright, were back"
A RaptureRaven literally said i wont say 5 minutes.
wert wert thus proving the OP and 87 others are deaf
Remember remember
The fifth of November
The gunpowder, treason, and plot
I see no reason
Why the gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.
TheFableGamer This is amazing
I always like the fan art during the break
this episode really kinda pissed me off the way the group acted towards marisha. they where trying to start a rebellion, actually started one, and then was like, nope. expect for marisha, she was the only one that was like wtf do you all mean nope? we have to help the civilians, this is our fault, we started this we have to go out there. but no, they decide to sleep. and they want to call themselves the hero's?
The fact that they can spontaneously jump into to harmony parts to create a pretty darn on pitch chord for "Help!" is crazy impressive. I feel like their musical talents don't get enough opportunity to shine.
Anybody else find that random perfect four part harmony they hit during the song of rest super damn impressive?
Sometimes I wonder about these alignments with their actions hahaha. It was still a pretty good episode though! That chat though.. I'm reminded why I tend to always have it closed at all times.
I think people take alignment too serious. In real life we often do stuff that is ''out of character'' for our personality when we absolutely NEED to or when it's for the best. It's much more interesting to roleplay HOW the characters do something and how those actions affects them instead of not doing it at all. In my group we don't even define our alignments, we have our character's behaviour in mind and that's enough.
Also yeah, the chat makes me sick. I can't help reading it sometimes and I always regret doing it.
As good as an episode as this is, it's just cringy to watch the players ignore the people in the middle of the war.
Yeah these generic peasant npc's that are entirely worthless and mean nothing to the over arching plot were definitely worth risking player characters for.
This post has 2 types of people in it.... it's hard to explain but, OP wants to be like a hero that treats all life equal. The first comment, a ruling class elitist, whom says only fellow elites are worth protecting.
Or to attempt to say it another way...
OP: all life is worth protecting, no matter how weak.
First comment: the only lives that matters are the the ones with power.
Me too.
The staring at the tree while the giant kills the peasants
@@stefansneden1957 Matt: while a giant smashes down on th-
Party: how do the ropes look?
Matt: ಠ_ಠ
@@apassionatenerd.3564 You and your family are generic peasants that mean nothing to the over arching plot of life, or the world, or the country you live in, or the state your most likely from, or even the county, or even the city/town you live in. Judging from your comment, I'd guess you don't have much of an impact on the people who live right next to you much less do good for the world. By your metric, your life is meaningless when compared to say... trump.
After watching this Episode I'd like to start a petition to have the chat taken away from the screen permanently. It's so much vinegar and vitriol towards the players that I'm starting to wonder if those are actually fans!?
Anyways, I'd enjoy my Critical Role much more if you replaced the chat on screen with something like a fanart-slideshow. Now that'd be my jam!
even when it's it's being positive it's mostly just insipid nothings like "awesome game is awesome" and "lmao". I try to avoid looking at it as much as possible and would support it being removed
100% in agreement with you there, friend. As a matter of fact, we need something of the sort for the RUclips comments. There's just as much toxicity here as there is on Twitch.
+Adam Schwartze I agree with you, but not looking at the Yoputube comments is so much easier than not looking at the chat, because the chat is permanently on screen and moving, screaming for attention.
+Bunk Fair enough. It's just that I'm so tired of all the unfair toxicity.
agreed.
13:47 Wow! I admired all the art, but I had to stop on this one. Just beautiful. It's cool that people playing d&d can inspire a lot of beauty and creativity to be born.
damn you matthew mercer I'm eating a hot pocket as your describing the undead giant taking damage
"So we stoked these poor, unarmed villagers into rebellion against undead murder-giants. Now we could either help them, or take a nap. Nap time it is!"
-Heroes of Exandria
And this episode reminds me of how much I love Marisha.
29:52 Knock knock...
42:46 Oh my god, I'm so proud. They're gonna tell their grandkids about this someday.
45:46 Oh crap. So either Silas is crafty enough to fake a show of force to get Desmond's trust... or those "corpses" hanging there actually were a nonviolent gesture, because they're just waiting for orders to climb down and start biting people. Or both. And we don't know, because the sun hasn't shone on the Sun Tree since we got to town...
50:50 Is the Horn of Fog an existing magical item in the sourcebooks, or does Mercer get credit for that? Because that is a lovely pun.
43:00 Key was right. The moment the militia emerged they should have gone after the giants piecemeal (one at a time) and sent someone to tell the other militia squads to cool it and distract the giants until Vax Machina could arrive on scene for those giants. Throwing the peasants at the giants just gets them dead, and wastes your own forces.
Close to 40', point-blank for Vex, Vax and Perce to start softening it up, then Grog whacks it when it closes. Scanlon and Key on overwatch, and magic buffing if the shit hits the fan. You lot need a tactician or something.
"Grog learns" quote of the day
Ahem...
Two things that really bothered me about this bit in the episode. And I say this with all due respect because I love the show. Also, I'll try not to spoil any of the future episodes after this one with this post:
1) Everyone thinking that Keyleth was totally and utterly stupid for suggesting that they fight while still weakened.
Think about it: they can't afford to rest in the middle of an all-out battle against the zombie giants. She was spot on in saying that the longer they rest and stay hidden, the more people are going to die, and knowing her history, she's sick and tired of innocent lives being snuffed out around her.
And besides, considering that people come back as undead in the city, that would mean even more undead to fight later on, thus making them exhaust their replenished spells all over again. And that would prompt the need for another long rest, which would end up wasting more time that the Briarwoods could use to their advantage. There's also the risk of corruption after a long rest, as we've seen in the past two episodes, which would give them more handicaps later on (or so I assume based on Percy's existing corruption). So the less time they spent resting, the more people that were spared a fate worse than death, the less risk there was of corruption spreading to the rest of the party, and the less problems that both the resistance and Vox Machina would have in the long run.
2) The logical leap about the Sun Tree being the "spawning point" of undead.
Both the party (well, technically just Scanlan) and the chat room were jumping the gun about that, saying that they needed to not heal the tree but to burn and destroy it. It didn't get any better when upon seeing the cut ropes, they all start assuming that it might be true. Here's the thing: it's not.
Once again, Keyleth nailed it on the head. It's not the tree, it's Whitestone itself. And the curse is what caused the tree to die and bring those who've died into the realm of undeath. I know that the party jumping the gun tends to happen a lot, but that leap was painful to see them go through. Granted, they're trying to cram so much into 3-4 hours per session and they tend to get sidetracked quite a bit, so I'm not frustrated about that.
Phew... Sorry, I got carried away. I love the show so much that I can't help but point out things to others that they might not understand the first time around. That being said, I've said my piece and got it out of my system. Time to move on.
People hate on keyleth because she's the worst llayer/character in the game. Pushy with her opinions, metagaming all to hell, wildly fluctuating morality (save the innocents, except when I'm murdering them [like the guard after he surrendered]), temper tantrums when things don't go her way, etc
Sir this is a McDonald's drive thru
@@flyingninjaodeath So Keyleth is bad because she metagames too much, but also because she killed the guard because her character doesn't know he surrendered......
@@agilemind6241 You think she didn't hear Vex shout "Stop!" and after two seconds say "Now come back here!"
Kayleth is supposed to have a very high wisdom score, she should understand, from the way that went down, that the guard surrendered. She could've still just stopped casting her spell or direct it away when she saw the guard just standing there, looking at her.
But yes, she does metagame too much, sometimes.
@@Kloetee It was the same round of combat so technically it should have been happening almost simultaneously in a few seconds, and in the heat of battle with Grog raging on one side, Percy firing his very loud gun on another, and a storm outside, Vax shouting at her that no-one be allowed to flee, it wouldn't be easy at all for Keyleth to hear what Vex was saying. People generally don't stop and think in the middle of a battle, and Matt didn't allow anyone an insight check to see if the guy had surrendered or not.
Plus I believe Keyleth isn't proficient in Insight so regardless of her Wisdom she isn't supposed to be good a reading people. Wizards are automatically super knowledgeable about plants and animals just because they have high Int and nature is an Int skill.
Love how Jordana just roles with addressing crazy grandma as crazy grandma. Ah God, the voice Laura went with reminds me of the old folks in my home town who used to come up to me and ask if I'd like my blindness to be faith healed, but they sounded battered and country fried rather than British.
39:13 *Grog learns* ... * Thinker Pose *
Aight I know I'm late to the game but I just gotta say it. I love this party to death but oh my god I am really struggling to get through this episode, you can't inspire the masses to revolt and then just abandon them to die, that's selfish and evil and I can forgive Percy and Scanlan for it bc Percy has two corruption points or whatever and Scanlan is usually pretty self-serving when it comes to battles, but come on. Vax is always trying to be the "good guy" and Vex is supposed to be a good character. I get that they're tapped out and have had a rough battle but it really felt like it was the players and not their characters driving the game. I'm just really upset with the party right now.
that harmony on "HEALTH" was flawless!!
Couldn't they have had the spellcasters rest and the guys who don't use spells take control of the rebellion in preparation for the night assault? Would have got everything they needed to done.
THIS!!! God that whole bit had me seething
Aidan Wedgbury like seriously the bard didnt need rest he had mockery, cutting words, and max inspiration die to give, the druid had tons of spells that could have simply been for healing, everyone had potions, and everyone else would have been good to go in one short rest.
Malcolm Flonnoy yeah but as everyone was insisting on it that's why I said. Mercer saves it I. The next episode though so it's chill
I think it’s because they were a little low on health to take on the giants. If not everyone at least Grog and Trinket were pincushions during the last fight
@@TheBoomstickBros hit dice exist for a reason
Keyleth: Is anyone coming this way? Matt: No. Grog: This one's not on fire... >:D Yet...
A warning to anyone who happens to look at the comments before watching: Don't look at the chat when they're playing, it's very toxic and full of people who take this too seriously
Maybe you're just taking chat too seriously
Nah, Jesse is right
most of the time the chat scrolls by to fast for me to really read it so i never bothered
You think that the youtube comments are any better? It's all toxic here as well. The only thing that changes is who is being targeted. But general negativity is heavily present here as well. It's just that the "heroes" to Twitch chat are "villains" to youtube comments and vice versa.
Hah someone in the chat said, “just wait next campaign everyone will be magic users”
They're not technically wrong. Besides Yasha and Beau, everyone can use at least a little magic.
L Yasha can use magic, she’s used healing hands a few time now and Beau can’t cast spells but can do magic damage.
@@Squidco-lg2dg I meant in the sense of being a magic caster, or even half caster like Nott. But you are correct on them still being able to use magic. Magician's Judge, Beau's gauntlets.
guys remember the cast are people and this is a GAME. Some of y'all are taking your comments way too far. sure they may have messed up, but this isn't a reason to hate on any of the cast. They're just trying to have fun and play d&d
"Keileth you pick this out, you see what looks like eight ropes dangling from the Sun Tree" and I got chills thinking of the future. Time is a weird soup
Oh man, Matt is so much more generous than I would be in this situation. I mean, i wouldn't flat out kill them for ignoring the obvious allusions to the villagers fighting and dying. But this probably would not have even ended up as the pyrrhic victory that it did. I probably would have had them come back from their 30-60 minute rest only to find that most of the villagers were dead, captured, or scattered into the surrounding wilderness. Even, or more like especially, in DnD battles, that is like an eternity. That's 300 rounds of combat where poorly equipped villagers are fighting on their own.
If they actually gave into the urge to take a long rest, then I probably would have to put them in a really bad situation. High likelihood of losing one or more party members, with a moderate risk of TPK for deciding to take a nap in the middle of a rebellion they started.
He seems ridiculously reluctant to put them in situations where a character can die.