There's definitely a lot of truth to that.But the difference between yesterday and today is that lyricism used to equate to street cred(especially within the culture)and that's no longer the case.
@@frankocean6676 Kendrick is an extraordinary artist. And yet there are plenty of emcees who've revolutionized rap(in LA alone)to a much greater extent than Kendrick has. I mean the Freestyle Fellowship were fusing jazz and rap vocal styles when Kendrick was still a toddler.
Cole, Kendrick & Em are lyrical. It’s just they make good songs. Most lyrical rappers like to write choruses that sound like verses & also don’t usually care about the beat in the way it matters when it comes to making a record. Lyrical rappers just wanna rap.
@mangusti hopo ur opinion is like a broken calculator bruhh that shit doesnt count.He is rapping for more than 2 generation and still on top of his game in mainstream,sales etc2 way better than ur fav artist and please keep ur mouth close dude if u dont know a single thing bout what hip hop is
Lyrics are important. I can say as an Em, Cole, Nas fan. But the beat and production matter as well. It's gotta be a vibe. Not just words upon words upon words.
That would honestly be more boring than narrating a Dickens book to a bunch of toddlers. Like, imagine Dance With The Devil, if it didn't use technical and poetic devices, to enhance the flow and storytelling? Shit would be mad different.
At age 46, and seeing Hip Hop go through so many movements, I would love to root for today’s rap, just as much as I love the lyrical stuff. The disappointment comes when everything is slapped with age and expiration dates. True, I see the hate on both sides (dudes my age hate on what younger dudes are doing; young dudes dismiss everything before them). In order to change that, we NEED balance. Granted, there is balance here & there, but Hip Hop would and could thrive if young and old quit shunning each other, and try looking from one another’s perspective. You’ll see that we rebelled just as hard when we were teenagers and 20-somethings. It’ll be a while, but we’ll grow into this. I believe it.
Yes!!! Why do albums like Flower Boy, Piñata, Atrocity Exhibition, IGOR, Rodeo, Saturation Trilogy, Bandana, MBDTF, TPAB, JEFFREY, The Money Store, NWTS, IYRTITL, MM... FOOD, Madvillany, MOTM, CD, LR, Graduation, LUV VS The World, Yeezus, TYFYSWGIFH by A Tribe Called Quest, KSG, Daytona, ATLiens and Aquemini, etc. get a LOT of praise than most other project in the same caliber? Cause they master the FUCKING OVERLOOKED art of balancing great amazing bars(or clever enuf bars) with fun and/or interesting, creative and engaging soundscapes! Can people please realize that NO ONE gives a fuck about Lyrical and Mumble trap? Good quality music can come from ANYWHERE. We had Die Lit and TA13OO released in the same year. One was obvi better than the other but both were amazing albums of the time they were in.
The problem with riding the commercial wave is you will always be replaced. Fitting their niche and building your community is setting yourself up for long term success.
To me I'm a poetry fan first, hip hop fan second. I personally like the Aesop Rock's, the MF Doom's, and the Killer Mike's of the scene. If you put those lyrics on paper and read them at a poetry slam, it would still hit just as hard. At the same time, I see the point the new generation are making. Sometimes you just want to turn your brain off for a bit. I could watch Citizen Kane, but sometimes I just want to watch John Wick kill some motherfuckers for 2 hours. I could listen to MF Doom, but sometimes I just want to bop. I get it. There's music you listen too, and music you hear, but it's still music.
RXK Nephew is the middle ground for me. His track Bundle Ally is epic. Peep (also check big chains) as a former hustler who grew up in the golden era and got out the game in the early 2000s, I appreciate his stuff. ruclips.net/video/a48-Rv8M_6I/видео.html
they can understand it just fine stop acting like their idiots if anything lyrical rap is easier to understand than the current trend, it's always been if it sounds good people will like it, also lyrical rappers are over represented by corny rappers they have chicken with no seasoning
I call this cap. You do hype out after you realize the play on words, the metaphors, stylistic devices etc etc - then you hype up with your raphead homies who just as intellectual and attention to detailish as u are.
@@darrenraphaelFym? Em been on lyrical showmanship for decades. You're obviously ignorant to The Eminem Show, Relapse, MTBMB, and most likely Death of Slim Shady. Smh, you must not have been old enough to see his prime.
This whole video is dumb , Joyner is trash , why did you even put him here , there are tons of great rappers , JID , Joey , Freddie , Griselda , Earl , Mavi etc , you guys are dumb , Cole and and Kendrick arent the only ones Eminem is corny nowadays too and rhymes for the sake of rhyming , dont put him in the convo again for TODAYS lyricists that are not corny
DOOM is the illest master of the metaphor of ALL time. He is the absolute dopest rapper that lives right now... my subjective and highly personal opinion of course. He DOESN'T care what "they" think is cool... HE said R.A.P.G.A.M.E: Rhymers Against Phony Gangsters And Mainstream Evil
@@mellotones DOOM and Aesop Rock are my 1 & 2 respectively. Sweatshirt is dope as hell. As I heard DOOM for the first time, I HAD to go back and listen to KMD again. All I could think was how he absolutely eclipsed and transcended to cosmic-level lyricism. Dave Chapelle has done the same thing comedically. Cats like this are at whatever Omega Level is, of their craft.
RIP to MF DOOM aka Zev Love X of KMD something yall young lames don't know a damn thing about. Also RIP to his brother DJ Subroc, who died far far too young at the age of 19, way back in 93.
Lyrics, bars, rhyme schemes, metaphors, similes, double entendres, internal rhyming, flow, delivery, riding the beat etc. Lyricism will always be cool and what rap is truly about to me. And this is coming from a person who’s favorite rapper/emcee of all time is Hov but I absolutely love Future as a artist . I like all types of rappers for different reason but lyrics will forever be my heart
Can you take sum time out your day and check out my dope beats on my channel. Ranging from smooth playa shit to hardcord g shit word if not its cool have a bless one
I feel like without talking about the beats, this conversation isn't complete. The evolution of hip hop beats is crucial to the decreased reliance on lyrical content.
Agreed. When the music became beats, and the beats became commercial, the lyrics became far more simple and that has evolved into what we have today. The 90's was all about finding a sample and throwing drums over it, now it's downloading loops and throwing 808 trap drums. It felt like there were millions of ways to flip a sample before, now every beat is predictable and the same, but then so is every flow and subject matter. I give up.
This is facts. Hip Hop started wth just beats and was more about the beatmakers (DJs) in the beginning. Hip Hop has pretty much returned to its roots, but in a new way.
@@Grind2Excellence If it was going to die out, it would've done that a long time ago. Every genre of music has the same elements that makes it what it is in each song. That's how we're able to categorize genres of music.
I think people who enjoy both lyrical and more sing-songy rap are an unrepresented majority. Your typical hip hop fan in 2020 is a fan of Kendrick and Lil Uzi Vert. Idk why some people act like it has to be all or nothing and you need to cling to one side. That mentality is corny and counterproductive. Different types of music serve different purposes, and there's room for all of it. This silent majority isn't as brash and outspoken as the "real rap" purists who make hating new rappers part of their whole personality, or the kids who feel inclined to push back against them.
I'm not sure I agree fully with your point but I like it's analytical and mature approach. This is the kind of point I would like to read even if I have disagreements.
For me, I saw the influences of drake, kendrick, cole, which was eminem, nas, jay z, kanye west, lil wayne. However, its hard to see cole, kendrick, and drake's influence on the young generation. I see a lot people mention future, thugger, more than anything now.
You see alot of ppl but it dont mean most of this generation looks up to young thug and future. I mean im 17 and my friends fuck wit future and thugger just like me bcuz they slap but were mostly inspired by drake j cole kendrick shit i can take it back to Eminem jay z nas andre 3000 big boi eric b rakim immortal technique pac etc. So i dont think thats the case for most of the youth just alot of what you've seen
Great post. I don’t think you can separate rap from lyrical quality AND pure entertainment. Rap has its deep roots in both lanes. Didn’t rap start at parties to keep the crowd entertained? Yes it evolved early on into a technical discipline. I want both honestly. Give me lyrical effort but also I do appreciate the best, ad libs, etc.
Lyricism isnt dead though, thats why the Cole and Kendrick, the Em's and the Jays still sell out when they drop music... the name of the game is creating a product that isnt just made for yourself but for your clients, most these rappers dont get the basics of business, big words and long winded raps are irrelevant if they dont connect to the lister... rule number 1 of business have a good product, it creates a long lasting client base. 2. marketing... some of these rappers arent getting their names out there so listeners to their genre don't find them so they perform poorly on sales... rule 2. the market place changes and so should how you brand and market yourself 3.never complain or talk down to the product your dont sell cause that just markets it for people
Em isn't all that anymore he's still decent but he is not anywhere near the top rn as opposed to his older self who was pretty much at the top routinely
@Johnny Cab his new album has that mix and music to be murdered to has a great following for both projects the second one having more fan love than the first disc
@@1m2a3t4t5 trends mean nothing without sales buddy... these new rappers are hot for a minute and cold the next... very few keep a following that is consistent with the supports, thank fully for them there is streaming money and ad revenues to make up for their albums and music drops as well as merch or they would be in trouble... most of these new school are not breaking 200k first week let alone 150k on first week sales
I feel like it's important to have an equal balance of good lyrics, flow, and overall catchy lyrics or something to remember the song by. Its evident that being technical or having great bars is not the only thing that makes a rap song good. But with many other opinions, this is entirely subjective.
Music that has no meaning, purpose, or message always gets forgotten with the pass of time only finest Music stay nail to the heart surviving time and changes
not true, MF DOOM music doesn't move people emotionally in terms of invoking sadness pain, happiness etc for example but he will always be remembered because of his lyrical acumen
It comes down to definitions, being an artist is judged on artistry, being a musician is judged on musicianship, being a songwriter is judged on songwriting, being a rapper is judged on rapping!
*You can have great "turn-up" music and still have bars; just ask Schoolboy Q, Jay Rock, Anderson .Paak, and Big K.R.I.T., as well as perhaps Freddie Gibbs. Problem is, a lot of younger dudes in my age range (16-25) just use "popularity" as an excuse to disrespect the art of rapping.* *The only difference between Gen X "golden age" rappers and rappers nowadays is that most of the well-known and respected rappers back then had their own sound and they all tried to outrap each other; we can do the same thing if we focus on being trendsetters and not trend chasers/clout-chasers.* *We need MORE guys like Chance the Rapper, Joey Badass, J. Cole, JID, Big K.R.I.T., Freddie Gibbs, etc. Not less.*
Young sir.... you are 100% spot on. I have stressed 1000 times that Trugoy (Dave from De La Soul) quoted Busta at the end of Church (maybe), from '05s Grind Date.... "Rap is the only thing that provides jobs for people that don't even love the $hit..." and its true. You just perfectly explained HipHop CULTURE versus its appropriation for clout and cash. De La were gonna quit when Stakes is High came out because of exactly what you're saying. I'm a proud Gen X fan who finds everything thats lost in mainstream, fire on the underground set. Preach, Youngblood. Good work.
No disrespect to you brother but I disagree with your assessment on comparing “mumble rap” and “rappity rap” I wouldn’t say you end up in the same place at the end of a 16 bars of a Kendrick track vs Uzi track. It’s not to say one is better than the other either but they are different. One track might just be there for vibes and to sound good while the other is there to really make you think. I like music as an art and hip hop has always evolved. I wish we could accept that all rap and hip hop styles helps the “culture” and create lanes for more people to express themselves.
@@cbrocafe He’s talking about rhyming for the sake of rhyming. Not conveying any ideas or dropping any gems within a verse/song/freestyle. When the lyrical content is fluff/filler and the words might not necessarily be easily audible/understandable (either due to a flow being too intricate/pretentious use of vocabulary OR due to the slurring/autotune aesthetic) then it doesn’t matter if it is rappity raps or mumbley mumbles...you still aren’t left with anything that conveys who the artist is or what he/she is tryna express (besides either turning up or dropping heavy handed lyricism). Tho I do agree that there should be multiple lanes and more room at the table for everyone to eat. Plus more respect across the genre between the sub-genres. Regardless shout out to Scru Face Jean!
Yea I’m not old head and respect creativity at any level, but I definitely disagree with your assessment of people not understanding fast flows, a true filthy rapper like Aesop rock may sound like gibberish but that’s just because it’s complicated where as most mumble rap sequences are not, of course not all but I’m just saying, people don’t like hearing what the can’t understand, but how else can we learn? But I’m sure your point can be applied to a myriad of cases
I put on OutKast in a stream the other day and somebody said it was bad rap. Andre3000, bad rap? It seems people now confuse pop with rap because they weren't a fan of rap before it became pop. I have never felt like more of an old man lol
@@houseofmatrix6174 This whole video is dumb , Joyner is trash , why did you even put him here , there are tons of great rappers , JID , Joey , Freddie , Griselda , Earl , Mavi etc , you guys are dumb , Cole and and Kendrick arent the only ones Eminem is corny nowadays too and rhymes for the sake of rhyming , dont put him in the convo again for TODAYS lyricists that are not corny
Lyrical rap didn’t lose its cool.....people’s attention spans just got really really short. Lyrical raps makes you rewind the track about 3 or 4 times. Who really has time for that now??
Everybody has as much time to check the lyrics as they do to check their FB or Insta for their likes. We have busied ourSELVES w/ other stuff. I have no social media and these comments are as close as I come but I bet you I will always hear the lyrics first. If the beat doesn't catch me though, I can't hear the lyrics but one feeds the other. Dope lyricists riding trash beats is a hard listen. Lyrical on dope beats is how it goes methinks...
@@cafemochamix of course people have time but look at how many rappers are making songs under 3 mins. That tells you the attention span of the young generation of today, they just can’t focus.
I'm a older head and what's interesting to me, is that from my perspective things actually haven't changed much. I get the point about being well rounded as opposed to a rapper that is just showing you how good they can flip words, however highly lyrical content rarely made it into the mainstream to begin with. Case in point how many people know Salt & Peppers Push it, as opposed to being familiar with Rakim's Lyrics of Fury. If I asked the average person if they heard back that thang up as opposed to music by Binary Star, most would recognize the cash money track. Mainstream music has always emphasized the hook over what was being said, and a lack of substance from folks who craved poetic content has been a complaint two decades before we even got to Kodac. Most cats my age simply want balance., It has often been said that the golden era was not just about lyrics, but it was such an eclectic era of artist ranging from black conscious artist to pimps to storytelling like Slick Rick. It wasn't a matter of are you this or that, verbal or mumble, my point being is the golden era actually captures the well rounded nature of what this video is describing. Think about how danceable an Outkast song can be yet still have depth.
Yeah like literally, this debate just gets old. At the end of the day, your musical art either still sounds good 20-30 years later or it doesnt, that's it.
Never been an LL fan but recognize he had some bangers like "Jiggling Baby Remix" "Back Seat" "Boomin System" "Doin It". He sounded like a cornball on "I'm Bad" and "I need a Beat" was a "It's Yours" rip off.
Bro i didn't even watch it because i knew it would be cringe. Look at Pump's face... In that clip alone dude look like a mix of "I don't even know what's going on" and "I'm scared."
@@cyber-bully5063 In a sense, yes, because he entered that conversation prepared to troll and roll his eyes and ignore everything Cole said. He couldn't bring himself to do that but he couldn't bring himself to really let his guard down and be real either. It's tragic, and hopefully he'll be stronger the next time life presents him an opportunity to break out of his cage.
Bro this is such a stupid thing to say. So much is said nowadays, you wannabe oldheads just like to say stuff, just like the generation before you said about your music
@Raoul Herskovits 😂😂😂for somebody that don't now me you think you know a lot about me what music do I like since you no so much apart from hip hop of course
Man imma come up with these metaphors & punchlines & b lyrical forever . Being lyrical will never go out of style cuz there is the internet. Might not b Mainstream anymore but there’s core lyrical fans all over the net.
I think that, lyrcial rappers, shouldn't always focus on the technical side. They should have more fun with it, Change the sound, don't always keep it the same. If they can adapt to a new sound, and add their own twist on it, it can be amazing. Lyricism/trap is already amazing.
It's no coincidence to me that Eminem was at his peak when he was joking around sslp-tes. The second Eminem tried to be cool and edgy and serious it was awful because he doesn't actually have anything to say 99% of the time so it's just cringey ass fast rapping.
I’m into lyrical rap. It’s what I grew up with but at 24 I feel like an old head because I just can’t get into 3/4ths of this new shit. Shits depressing bro.
As an artist that truly enjoys and loves both sides of hip hop, I always strive to make music that sounds good when you’re not listening deeply, but that also has the lyricism and substance for when you do listen closely. Great video!
2:57 Well, Biggie won Lyricist Of The Year over Nas back in the '95 Source Awards going to show that even back then personality and song-crafting >>>>>>>>> sheer lyricism.
I have no problem with lyrical or conscious rap. The thing is I listen to music to have fun and get away from that real world for a moment. Music is an escape, it sounds stupid but sometimes people don't want to think about reality for a moment.
@@jeremyweru2893 Lyrical rap doesn't really fit in the viral dance/tik-tok world of today. If you look at tik-tok, or even snapchat, it's all about short clips which fits the mold more of today's younger rappers. I think it's more about the moment/song than an album and that to me isn't what lyrical rap is about.
@@showtimesportsmedia6906 I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't saying they don't listen to whole songs I'm saying in the tik-tok world of today's youth you don't need lyrical content to be popular. A viral dance or a catchy part can make you popular. You just need that little part that kids can put in the video and that's it.
Well there is alot more young ppl than you think that listen to actual rap not this bs we here nowadays. Including me and im not saying i dont listen to the young thugs futures yachtys etc. But im mostly a lyric rap fan. My favorite is Eminem up there is also andre 3000 big boi drake j cole kendrick lamar nas eric b rakim etc.
Music just compliments the mood and philosophy of the listener. No genre of rap loses it cool. Some may see a peak in popularity in certain era's, but they never really die out
There’s a whole wave of dudes that make amazing lyrical shit; Medhane, Chuck Strangers, Earl Sweatshirt, Mavi, Slauson Malone, Nyck Caution, Kota, Marlon Craft, ect.. just gotta go underground for it.
There's gonna always be a kid going through hard times at home and need those lyrics those storys so he know he not alone and there is hope!! Thats what I used it for I needed my music 90s kid all day!!
Because 1- ppl don't wanna pay attention to message or wordplay or punchline anymore (even through in the young generation there is still young artists and listener who still care about that), and rap becoming a large access music help in that sense, since most of the ppl who listen to only rap "hit" ain't real hip-hop fan, so they literally just listening to rap as a entertainment only. 2- a lot of them (lyrical rappers) spend too much time on showing they are lyrical instead of making music. I mean Outkast and Slim Shady Eminem (1999-2004) are the perfect examples on how lyrical MAINSTREAMS rappers should be, lyrically but also musically interesting ( whether it's in terms of pure quality or in terms of lit/catchiness) . Not overdoing one over the other.
Lyrical rap was being considered depressing rap and ppl just wanna listen to a hot beat and dance all the time. At least some ppl can listen to multiple artist and genres. Rappers think its boring cause they cant do it or their fanbase will go down.
This whole video is dumb , Joyner is trash , why did you even put him here , there are tons of great rappers , JID , Joey , Freddie , Griselda , Earl , Mavi etc , you guys are dumb , Cole and and Kendrick arent the only ones Eminem is corny nowadays too and rhymes for the sake of rhyming , dont put him in the convo again for TODAYS lyricists that are not corny
lyrical rappers are always missing one of these 2 things: a good beat and less saturated bars/voice. Too many good songs they have to just be ruined by a nasty beat. They also need to slow down the lyricism. We’ll get your 16ths and double entendres, relax and synchronize. Some of the best MF Doom lyrics i’ve heard is when he’s featured on a song.
Big Pun was super lyrical, he even had a song titled that. All his hits like “it’s so hard” or “I’m not player” had lyrical verses. He just had image and swag to not make it seem preachy, but fun. I like everything and believe everything has as audience for a reason. 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Facts.....ppl can say otherwise but the Truth is in reality....hip hop fans are still listening to Lyrical rappers from the 80s, 90s, and the 00s ....but, after these mumble rappers shine for 6 months nobody listens to that song anymore....no substance no Longevity....prove me wrong....
I don't know if I hate this video or I just strongly disagree. I really don't like the commentary regarding Nas V. Jay-Z. They're both lyrical artists. Their subject matter differs. The beef wasn't about proving their lyrical ability. Both artists were already legends. It was just insults and name calling. So the analysis of it here as Nas being more lyrical than Jay seems foolish. The key to Jay-Z's success was his ability to produce radio friendly hits AND the album's that showed the full extent of his ability. Nas wasn't as good at that. His lyrical ability was always high caliber but he couldn't produce the album's that kept everyone's attention. I hate the false choice of either you stay lyrical or dumb it down for mass appeal. Too many successful artists easily do both. That has always been true. For example, not every rapper in the 90s or early 2000s were lyrical. But everyone was happy with the diversity. You had a more balanced mixture of commercial and substance. In the golden era, everybody had unique styles even if they were from the same city. Jay-Z, The Lox, DMX, Fat Joe, Busts Rhymes, all had distinct styles. You knew one artist from the other when you heard them on the radio. Outkast, Goodie Mobb, Ludacris, T.I., all had distinct styles. Twista, Bone-Thugs, Eminem, all had distinct styles. The problem now is that everyone style sounds the same no matter where they are from. Fetty Wap sounds like Migos, Roddie Rich sounds like Yatchy, etc. The beats, the lyrics, the production, the content. It all sounds the same with very few artists distinct enough to stand out. Most of these artists aren't impressive as a whole. The freestyles suck, the album's aren't very interesting, the substance is lacking. I didn't think Nelly was a lyrical artist but at least he didn't sound like the Ying Yang Twins. If anybody with a catchy hook can be considered a successful rapper. I don't see the point of calling the music they create rap music. The same way that we wouldn't call anybody who blows a saxophone a jazz artist.
No disrespect, and though I agree that nowadays most artists DO sound the same, to compare Fetty Wap to the Migos and Roddy Rich to Lil Yachty...🤔 Either, you're just throwing names together without much thought or you REALLY don't listen to new rap very much because those were some pretty BAD comparisons
@@nathandonkor921 facts if anything roddy ricch sounds like gunna and young thug. Roddy ricch has a song featuring gunna and i couldn't tell when gunnas verse started cause they sounded so similar
I dumbed down for my audience to double my dollars They criticized me for it, yet they all yell "holla" If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense But I did 5 mill' - I ain't been rhyming like Common since - Jay Z, Moment of Clarity verse 2
Anyone thinking of logic's career and how he chose to evolve from a hardcore lyricist to a more mainstream rapper instead. Still keeping a go flow and could rap like crazy, but choosing to do more of a different style sometimes
People who don't recognize Eminem or Snoop or anyone else from the golden age are just sick. These are just idiots. I mean, how dare someone says shit like Drake>Eminem?! Eminem paved the way for most of the rappers that are here today, Eminem made Hip Hop popular than ever. Eminem gave it perfection. And now there's these clowns like 69 and Lil pump
I'm going to have to disagree with you when you say that there was less differentiation between rapping styles in 90s. Quite on the contrary, some of the greatest artists of the 90s who were all operating around the same time - lets take Nas, Biggie, Tupac, OutKast and the Fugees, all of whom were at the top of their game in 1996 - had wildly differing styles. Nas' dense, compact rhymes are completely different Andre 3000's slick southern drawl, and Tupac's self-assured swagger starkly contrasts with Lauryn Hill's almost sung, Jamaican-accented verses.
I had the same thought, was shocked when he said that, like RZA and Q-tip is both from new york but had different styles and music, I think its very ignorant tho, like just addmit you dont know that much if this statement is the one you have to make
My musical taste is all over the place, I guess I could be considered an old head given my age but I enjoy conscience rap, “lyrical miracle” rap, or mumble rap, depends on the mood I’m in tbh. My main issue is the artists that don’t have respect for hip hop and the genre as a whole. They wanna use hip hop influences to sell records but have no respect for it.
Times change and rap music has always been about young people. So when I feel alienated by modern hip-hop I just gotta remind myself “its not made with me in mind”.
I think juicewrld was a good example of the evolution of lyrical rap to this generation. I don't consider juicewrld a lyrical raper as his main craft, because he was really versatile (master freestyler, amazing composser), however by definition most of his songs are telling a story, his rhyme schemes are insane and he basically freestyled all his work. I don't think lyrical rap is dead, I just think it evolved.
This guy literally said that 90s rappers indistinguishable besides their lyrical ability. Then had the nerve to put Lauryn Hill, Jay-Z, and Busta Rhymes in the same picture... Ethos dead.
Lyrical rap is the foundation of hip hop. No matter what trend is happening, you can never erase the pillars of rap. Autotune is a trend just like bone thugs/twista type rap. It will always come back to who has BARS. Kendrick, Rapsody, etc will live on forever. Lil pump, boat, baby, etc will be just like crucial conflict and others that have come and gone
Man lyrical rap will never truly disappear from hip hop... but the art of song making in hip hop has shifted. Once upon a time song making was primarily about the bars, but now audiences care less about the words and their meaning and more about the production and the way that song makes them feel. Which is understandable to a degree... I mean music can never and will never cater to only one type of listener, and it shouldn't try too either. There are a lot of artist that are just absolutely lyrically amazing, but they cant make a good song to save their lives, and to be fair to some of those artist.. they aren't trying to make catchy music that people dance too and feel something. Eminem is a prime example... Eminem is an amazing lyricist that used to make interesting music that had content that we all kind of fell in love with. His bars spoke to a whole generation of young white kids that had never been represented in hip hop before even though they loved hip hop. He spoke about things that white america identified with, and also made it extremely entertaining. Even if you were a young black kid from the hood you could relate to Eminem because his story wasn't that different from other people of color that grew up in poverty. Fast forward and now Eminem is older, wiser, and rich as hell.... soooo those entertaining antics that used to get him attention just aren't appealing to a 40 something grown up anymore. His bars are better than ever but he doesn't really have anything to say, especially to the youngsters that are growing up today. No one really identifies with Em anymore in hip hop except the old heads that remember what he used to be, i think its one of the reason why more people are taking shots at him, that years ago when Em was in his prime wanted no smoke with that white boy. People are just making music where they want their listener to appreciate what they have to say. I've been that old head for a long time, anti mumble rap and the whole nine... but ive gotten to this place where I can respect some of the artist that are rising and when i keep an open mind and ears i realize that their is talent there, buried under drill sound, or some banging beat, or some auto-tuned voice half singing half rapping on a track. To my fellow hip hop heads, maaaaann keep supporting good music and promote it whenever you can. To my old heads try not to be too judgmental of the new wave. lol
There’s a time and a place 4 everything. Wit that being said, u need a good balance of both introspective rap as well as fun rap. There’s more than enuff 4 everyone 2 thrive & survive on.
If lyricism is becoming less "cool", then what hip hop represents will go away. Hip hop IS about the lyrics. Listening to the artists story, hearing their point of view on popular issues, politics, and life. If it's not that, it's not hip hop. Period.
Lyricism isn’t dat anymore thinking bout all these lyrical rappers do is use big words etc nobody ain’t trying to hear dat use simple words so people can get yo message
@@tynew8650 using words you don’t understand doesn’t mean you’re a good rapper mate nobody ever said it. On the other half, if you’re too dumb to figure out what the fuck is being said just because they used a word you don’t know, gtfo of hip hop.
@@rabd9881 It think the issue is on both sides. Yes the oldheads (like myself) should let the younger generation have it's fun. But the younger generation needs to put more effort in their work. Not saying you can't have fun.
The real problem with hip hop is that it isn't as diverse in its styling as it should be. Every style has a place in hip hop but when its over saturated by one thing it stagnates or deteriorates. There's room for it all in hip hop anything else said is bullshit. There has been a gradual dumbing down of our society and a few things we observe today are exacerbated by this dumbing down of the population. The fall of lyricism is one of them. Also this is what happens when most rappers and media commentators don't actually LOVE the art form. Not speaking of them all just the majority of them. When you don't LOVE or RESPECT something you don't treat it with the care it deserves. When you don't LOVE or RESPECT something you just see it as a tool to get paid. Let's be real most of these guys didn't grow up with a deep love for the art form. They grew up listening to boy bands and similar pop music. Conveyor belt music with little actually soul, just made to hit certain prerequisites in order to top the charts not to express your artistry for the love of it. Just look how they talk about hip hop and rap. They act like rap isn't to be respected. They don't want to be called rappers don't want their music to be called rap? Like rap music isn't the most diverse and versatile genre of music. Rap is to be respected like any music genre. There is no way rock or country would let someone come in their genre of music and say they don't like rock or country. They wouldn't let someone come in and say "oh I don't like rock or country" "I just make rock or country music for money" "I don't listen rock or country" then put no effort into it. Rap is the only genre of music who let's that weird shit fly. And let's not act like you can't listen to a song for the lyrics and listen to the same song and have fun n tune the lyrics out. A lot of consumers of rap are more interested at appearing relevant or riding the newest zeitgeist these days. The framing of this was pretty weird sometimes and lacked the nuance this discussion truly deserves. There is place for it all in this genre people need to quit hating on the non lyrical guys and the non lyrical guys need to quit being so defensive. Its rap, the lyrics are a vital part of it no matter how you try to spin it so of course ppl are going to be critical of that aspect of it; that's what happens when you make "art 🙄" for public consumption. People are going to critique it. That is nothing new whatsoever.
if you genuinely think that the fall of lyricism is a sign of society becoming dumber then you genuinely don't understand anything about how the arts contribute the structure and forum around society.
Hip hop music was invented on the basis of lyrics, storytelling, this generation will never understand that people be listening to the beats sadly end is near for lyrical rap
The true school hip hop, timeless, classic emceeing never lost its cool in the mind of true school hip hop heads only dumb people hate true school hip hop. Unfortunately the world is in a downward spiral it's why music with meaningful content isn't promoted. RAP IS NOT POP IF YOU CALL IT THAT THEN STOP!
This whole video is dumb , Joyner is trash , why did you even put him here , there are tons of great rappers , JID , Joey , Freddie , Griselda , Earl , Mavi etc , you guys are dumb , Cole and and Kendrick arent the only ones Eminem is corny nowadays too and rhymes for the sake of rhyming , dont put him in the convo again for TODAYS lyricists that are not corny
y'all make it look like being lyrical is the only thing that matters, it really isn't like that no more. Lyrics are important still but ya gotta be catchy and entertaining to the ears as well
@@donathan2933 they think lyrical rap is the epitome of rap no one gives a shit if you can rap at 500 words a minute. it's like saying every track athlete is a good at football cos their fast
@@axz647 Umm no. It's not about rapping 500 words a minute. It's about having well crafted lyrics with good delivery. Rapping fast is just a style some rappers have.
Lyricsm is still important and lowkey evolving and is being implimented into alot of rappers' songs now; people like Polo G, J.I. the Prince of NY, and even Lil Uzi Vert are lyrical but melodic at the same time. Non- melodic rappers like DaBaby is lyrical and hes huge. Rapping fast is obsolete tho on the other hand.
I love the bars when it gets technical but I love the turn up, f it just keep putting eminem on dope ass beats and I'm impressed that I have to rewind it because I found something new in the bars that I may of missed, tbh as I said I understand the new wave but at the same time if you're that technical you can be called a better rapper saying that you could use a modern style and be just a better artist Basically Oldskool technicality = the science of rap New school wave = the art of rap
man, lyrical rap has never really lost its cool, it's just that hip-hop got more mainstream pop. lyrical rap or even the chopper rap speed, are like metal to me, they're never going to be fully mainstream , they're in between worlds. Eminem back then, his formula was to release a pop rap song, like the real slim shady, without me, etc and then release the more "meaningful" rap song. he was smart in terms of knowing his audience. I learn late that not everyone cares for double meaning and most rely on the word of others that these rappers are lyrical or not. there's always the surface level raps and if you stray away from it, you might not get noticed. it's like if grunge came earlier to the mainstream consciousness during the height of ugh, hair metal. might not have change anything. One of my fav rappers is Aesop Rock and his lyrics is the only ones that i have to rewind to hear what he is trying to say (other than the fast rappers in general) and he is nowhere near the mainstream "elites". With that said, I think some lyrical rappers have a hard time writing a hook or chorus. i've always wanted to learn how say, some rock bands, can say so much with so little words, made me realize, we got to strike a balance when writing raps too. However, it is now monotonous with what's out there but it's always been that way. there will always be the more popular sound, the hit makers and the spit creators. two different worlds. Jay-z and Eminem are good examples of both. Tupac wasn't the most lyrical but you felt his words, and that's the real thing, you got to feel it before you support someone. You must believe in his or her music. Simple as that, really. Kendrick , is lyrical but he also write decent hooks and generally nice beats. I have a hard time, making the right beats but it's ok, live and learn as they say.
These weirdos have a hit and we listen for a few months. Lyrical content creates music we revisit for years and years after it’s been released. There’s no comparison.
The crazy thing is I actually don't think it's no longer cool or it's over as far as lyricism goes. It's just over for now and not cool for now in the mainstream world. You have to look for it. And honestly I think it'll circle back in a few years. A beast lyrical rapper that no one can deny, whether they are a man or a woman or maybe even nonbinary will change the game. And lyricism will be a trend again. Watch. History always repeats itself. Hell, I even think rock will be mainstream again too. Anything underground eventually comes to the surface.
Yeah that was another thing too in culture things and trends and what the culture deems be important sway back and fourth all the time and thats across all art forms
I like lyrical rap. I have to listen to music that's telling me something, like a story. It doesn't even have to be profound or deep. If a dude is gonna talk about drugs, cool, but be more than that. Even as a hobbie, I don't write shit that has no meaning.
I couldn't even get through the full video because it over looks one extremely vital point. Most "Rapper Rappers" don't really care to follow the market or the trend of the mainstream audience who generally aren't really rap fans to began with. They just stay in their lane and love what they do. Accolades and charts mean very little these days, especially when top charting rappers are usually burned out within 2 to 5 years... where's Yatchy and Pump today? Success for "lyrical rappers" isn't measured by sales. (100 percent agree with the rapping fast or rhyming a lot doesn't mean quality though).
I still don’t get how this is a big deal. It’s fucking music at the end of the day. Listen to whatever you want and don’t let others force you to change your opinion.
The reason Joyner aint poppin so much is because IMO he abandoned his formula when he got a little sucess. His covers of Gucci Gang and Panda are amazing and what I think got him popular, because he brought that energy, now that energy seems to have disappeared. I may be wrong but I think people still enjoy lyricism, J.Cole and Kendrick are good examples of that. When they drop albums they are still extremely popular. Are we just gonna pretend that Middle Child and Humble didn't happen?
@@acephalos5026 Yea......back when quality lyrics were still in demand. If they were just now coming out they would of never took off like they did years ago.
@@mrpj1390 Idk about that. Quality always stands out. Its not like kdot is from the 90s or something. Kdot and Future (probably the biggest mumble rapper out) both debuted in 2012. Great Lyrics and content will always get you further and have more sustainability if you ask me. Future still gets played a lot but he aint doing kdot numbers and never will. Lyricism cant be uncool, especially when so many more people still find it much more worth the purchase than mumble rap.
Good lyrics were never enough. It takes charisma and the look is always a factor. These days artist just lack the package. They would rather make a melodic hit for a quick buck. “Lyrical Rappers” just decided to make more of a contextual project over the years. Unfortunately these type of projects don’t sell as many records so artist default to the easy route ... Lyrics and fast rapping don’t go hand and hand by the way. Also, the shit that is selling the most isnt necessarily the best out. It’s just marketed better. A lot of this shit is smoke and mirrors. Long story short, like what you like. Don’t contribute to the mainstream opinion. Music is in a beautiful place right now. There’s sooo many vibes and unforgettable talented artist , just do some exploring. And what lil yachty said about “serious rap” made me lose every ounce of respect for him. Man doesnt have one good song. He essentially won the lottery when it comes to this rap shit. Garbage catalog. In the long run, the serious/talented rappers will win. These SoundCloud guys had a nice lil run but it’s clearly over. All these “Lils” are just MC hammer clones. Gimmicks. Not gonna last long. One hit wonders. It’s so obvious the artist with talent and morals win at the end of the day.
Lyrical rap has always been marginalized. In the immoratal words andre. "y'all don't want to here me, ya just want to dance."
There's definitely a lot of truth to that.But the difference between yesterday and today is that lyricism used to equate to street cred(especially within the culture)and that's no longer the case.
@@kevinscott59 not really
@@treefiddytwoo
Ok
*hear
Heyyyy yahhhhh
Lyrical rap didn't lose its cool it's just everyone got corny and tried to dictate what hip hop is
I mean kendrick is greatest ever like no one has albums like to pimp a butterfly, gkmc the only rappers who is compitable with kendrick is mf doom
@@frankocean6676 3 First EM albums wins over any other albums.
@@nicoduran98 lol i luv em but no mmlp is deffo classic but it has many skippable songs
@@frankocean6676
Kendrick is an extraordinary artist.
And yet there are plenty of emcees who've revolutionized rap(in LA alone)to a much greater extent than Kendrick has.
I mean the Freestyle Fellowship were fusing jazz and rap vocal styles when Kendrick was still a toddler.
So true
Cole, Kendrick & Em are lyrical. It’s just they make good songs. Most lyrical rappers like to write choruses that sound like verses & also don’t usually care about the beat in the way it matters when it comes to making a record. Lyrical rappers just wanna rap.
“Lyrical rapes”
U so right!! Rap is the talent but hip hop is a skill, a skill of combining different elements to make a *song*!!!!!!!
@@DJflyingtaco whoops. Lmao.
My rapper friend always put it as making a song vs just rapping. Full fleshed out song with strong chorus vs near freestyle rap style
@mangusti hopo ur opinion is like a broken calculator bruhh that shit doesnt count.He is rapping for more than 2 generation and still on top of his game in mainstream,sales etc2 way better than ur fav artist and please keep ur mouth close dude if u dont know a single thing bout what hip hop is
Lyrics are important. I can say as an Em, Cole, Nas fan. But the beat and production matter as well. It's gotta be a vibe. Not just words upon words upon words.
That would honestly be more boring than narrating a Dickens book to a bunch of toddlers. Like, imagine Dance With The Devil, if it didn't use technical and poetic devices, to enhance the flow and storytelling? Shit would be mad different.
Unless it’s an acapella probably
As an old head, whenever I hear something is “a vibe.” I know im about to here the most extreme trash I’ve ever heard.
Whether the rap "sounds" good is subjective. But good lyricists have undeniable talent.
At age 46, and seeing Hip Hop go through so many movements, I would love to root for today’s rap, just as much as I love the lyrical stuff. The disappointment comes when everything is slapped with age and expiration dates. True, I see the hate on both sides (dudes my age hate on what younger dudes are doing; young dudes dismiss everything before them). In order to change that, we NEED balance. Granted, there is balance here & there, but Hip Hop would and could thrive if young and old quit shunning each other, and try looking from one another’s perspective. You’ll see that we rebelled just as hard when we were teenagers and 20-somethings. It’ll be a while, but we’ll grow into this. I believe it.
Yo, DDT, I used to love rocking with you at Silver Mic Sessions at The Bullfrog back in the day. You're a real one 💪
Basically just have amazing rhymes that are about something other than just having amazing rhymes
Thank you
Fr
@Stewie Douglass this nigga spittin
@Stewie Douglass he said have amazing rhymes that are not just about how amazing how rhymes are
Content is important.
It's about balancing integrity, lyricism, fun, repeatability, uniqueness and freshness. Those qualities will always maintain top relevancy.
Exactly
Exactly, people too dumb to realise that
Underrated Comment -- Bingo🎯
Yes!!! Why do albums like Flower Boy, Piñata, Atrocity Exhibition, IGOR, Rodeo, Saturation Trilogy, Bandana, MBDTF, TPAB, JEFFREY, The Money Store, NWTS, IYRTITL, MM... FOOD, Madvillany, MOTM, CD, LR, Graduation, LUV VS The World, Yeezus, TYFYSWGIFH by A Tribe Called Quest, KSG, Daytona, ATLiens and Aquemini, etc. get a LOT of praise than most other project in the same caliber?
Cause they master the FUCKING OVERLOOKED art of balancing great amazing bars(or clever enuf bars) with fun and/or interesting, creative and engaging soundscapes! Can people please realize that NO ONE gives a fuck about Lyrical and Mumble trap? Good quality music can come from ANYWHERE. We had Die Lit and TA13OO released in the same year. One was obvi better than the other but both were amazing albums of the time they were in.
facts
The problem with riding the commercial wave is you will always be replaced. Fitting their niche and building your community is setting yourself up for long term success.
Valid point
The one example of “likes doesn’t necessarily mean good comment” ... this comment is amazing but it doesn’t have many likes
As a "lyricist" comments like this give me hope. Thank u
Nobody has replaced drake tho
TOYOTA Boyz I love drake lmao 😭 and 🇵🇷✊🏾
To me I'm a poetry fan first, hip hop fan second. I personally like the Aesop Rock's, the MF Doom's, and the Killer Mike's of the scene. If you put those lyrics on paper and read them at a poetry slam, it would still hit just as hard. At the same time, I see the point the new generation are making. Sometimes you just want to turn your brain off for a bit. I could watch Citizen Kane, but sometimes I just want to watch John Wick kill some motherfuckers for 2 hours. I could listen to MF Doom, but sometimes I just want to bop. I get it. There's music you listen too, and music you hear, but it's still music.
RXK Nephew is the middle ground for me. His track Bundle Ally is epic. Peep (also check big chains) as a former hustler who grew up in the golden era and got out the game in the early 2000s, I appreciate his stuff. ruclips.net/video/a48-Rv8M_6I/видео.html
Try listening to a hip hop song without the beat and tell me if you're still a fan of " poetry "
Cmon, like hiphop is still hip hop without the lyrics? It's a shit argument man
Listen to just a beat and it's just that, a beat. Not hiphop
All caps when you spell the man name
@@BoleDaPoleStill am a fan of poetry.? Do you not understand lyricism or something because you're confusing asf.
The younger generation cares about hype. It’s hard to dance and get hype when you’re processing rhymes
On the other side of the coin you can’t understand rappity fast rap
they can understand it just fine stop acting like their idiots if anything lyrical rap is easier to understand than the current trend,
it's always been if it sounds good people will like it, also lyrical rappers are over represented by corny rappers they have chicken with no seasoning
I call this cap. You do hype out after you realize the play on words, the metaphors, stylistic devices etc etc - then you hype up with your raphead homies who just as intellectual and attention to detailish as u are.
Song gotta be both tho, power- and meaningful. Then its a true banger.
Stupid comment tbh I get hyped as hell listening to old school music sometimes.
In today’s rap music too many people believe they either go one of two ways: lyricism or showmanship. Truth is the apex artist can AND should do both.
Only Rapper that can do both is 50 cent. Unfortunetly he left he rap game so lyricism died with him.
I back this 100%
I can do both
Drake
@@darrenraphaelFym? Em been on lyrical showmanship for decades. You're obviously ignorant to The Eminem Show, Relapse, MTBMB, and most likely Death of Slim Shady. Smh, you must not have been old enough to see his prime.
Nas once said
The human brain has become lazy to analyze lyrics
People nowadays call a mumbling guy and a mediocre beat a "vibe" because they can't call that anything else, because it's nothing
@@nadirgumerzindo8293 no substance...
Nobody cares bro. Nas only had one good album cuz he had a horrible taste in beats.
@@raypest5848 False.
This whole video is dumb , Joyner is trash , why did you even put him here , there are tons of great rappers , JID , Joey , Freddie , Griselda , Earl , Mavi etc , you guys are dumb , Cole and and Kendrick arent the only ones
Eminem is corny nowadays too and rhymes for the sake of rhyming , dont put him in the convo again for TODAYS lyricists that are not corny
I don't think someone like MF DOOM really cares what the mainstream finds "cool"...Not every rapper is trying to please the mainstream.
DOOM is the illest master of the metaphor of ALL time. He is the absolute dopest rapper that lives right now... my subjective and highly personal opinion of course. He DOESN'T care what "they" think is cool... HE said R.A.P.G.A.M.E:
Rhymers
Against
Phony
Gangsters
And
Mainstream
Evil
@@cafemochamix I completely agree DOOM and Earl Sweatshirt are my personal favorites!
@@mellotones DOOM and Aesop Rock are my 1 & 2 respectively. Sweatshirt is dope as hell. As I heard DOOM for the first time, I HAD to go back and listen to KMD again. All I could think was how he absolutely eclipsed and transcended to cosmic-level lyricism. Dave Chapelle has done the same thing comedically. Cats like this are at whatever Omega Level is, of their craft.
RIP to MF DOOM aka Zev Love X of KMD something yall young lames don't know a damn thing about.
Also RIP to his brother DJ Subroc, who died far far too young at the age of 19, way back in 93.
@@cafemochamix Aesop rock is a lyricalsmith
Lyrics, bars, rhyme schemes, metaphors, similes, double entendres, internal rhyming, flow, delivery, riding the beat etc. Lyricism will always be cool and what rap is truly about to me. And this is coming from a person who’s favorite rapper/emcee of all time is Hov but I absolutely love Future as a artist . I like all types of rappers for different reason but lyrics will forever be my heart
Can you take sum time out your day and check out my dope beats on my channel. Ranging from smooth playa shit to hardcord g shit word if not its cool have a bless one
sameeeeee gawdddd!!! can't relate moreee
lol u mad
@@thomas5521 the person tweeting that is mad
"Its not about lyrics anymore, it's about a hot beat and a catchy hook"- Eminem
Ok?
kinda surprised that quote doesnt rhyme.
solid reference
em doesn’t have hot beats and catchy hooks?
@@Kuzmo Eminem has some of the most legendary hooks and beats in hip-hop from his golden days
I feel like without talking about the beats, this conversation isn't complete. The evolution of hip hop beats is crucial to the decreased reliance on lyrical content.
Agreed. When the music became beats, and the beats became commercial, the lyrics became far more simple and that has evolved into what we have today.
The 90's was all about finding a sample and throwing drums over it, now it's downloading loops and throwing 808 trap drums. It felt like there were millions of ways to flip a sample before, now every beat is predictable and the same, but then so is every flow and subject matter. I give up.
This is facts. Hip Hop started wth just beats and was more about the beatmakers (DJs) in the beginning. Hip Hop has pretty much returned to its roots, but in a new way.
Every song is the same trap 808s n hi hats .... it’s going to die out soon
@@Grind2Excellence If it was going to die out, it would've done that a long time ago. Every genre of music has the same elements that makes it what it is in each song. That's how we're able to categorize genres of music.
@@smoothsavage2870 bro that trap sound has 10 years max before another wave dethrones it.... Probably synthy pop it’s a cycle
I think people who enjoy both lyrical and more sing-songy rap are an unrepresented majority. Your typical hip hop fan in 2020 is a fan of Kendrick and Lil Uzi Vert. Idk why some people act like it has to be all or nothing and you need to cling to one side. That mentality is corny and counterproductive. Different types of music serve different purposes, and there's room for all of it.
This silent majority isn't as brash and outspoken as the "real rap" purists who make hating new rappers part of their whole personality, or the kids who feel inclined to push back against them.
Exactly!
I'm not sure I agree fully with your point but I like it's analytical and mature approach. This is the kind of point I would like to read even if I have disagreements.
Exactly
Agreed.
Facts
For me, I saw the influences of drake, kendrick, cole, which was eminem, nas, jay z, kanye west, lil wayne. However, its hard to see cole, kendrick, and drake's influence on the young generation. I see a lot people mention future, thugger, more than anything now.
You see alot of ppl but it dont mean most of this generation looks up to young thug and future. I mean im 17 and my friends fuck wit future and thugger just like me bcuz they slap but were mostly inspired by drake j cole kendrick shit i can take it back to Eminem jay z nas andre 3000 big boi eric b rakim immortal technique pac etc. So i dont think thats the case for most of the youth just alot of what you've seen
Left ma$e out of that convo, the man was an influenced to Kanye,Em,and Drake.
@@jwood8769 He was a big influence. Loved Ma$e, but he left way too early. I would add 3 stacks, but not enough solo work.
@@ayoonine you don’t need a body of work fty
@@jwood8769 Ma$e influence Em???? Thats news to me
I’d choose a high concept album like ‘Good kid, MAAD City’ or ‘TPABF’ over most anything that is out today every time.
Facts!!!
Brudda there is so much good stuff still coming out, yall just to lazy to find it
Great post. I don’t think you can separate rap from lyrical quality AND pure entertainment. Rap has its deep roots in both lanes. Didn’t rap start at parties to keep the crowd entertained? Yes it evolved early on into a technical discipline. I want both honestly. Give me lyrical effort but also I do appreciate the best, ad libs, etc.
Lyricism isnt dead though, thats why the Cole and Kendrick, the Em's and the Jays still sell out when they drop music... the name of the game is creating a product that isnt just made for yourself but for your clients, most these rappers dont get the basics of business, big words and long winded raps are irrelevant if they dont connect to the lister... rule number 1 of business have a good product, it creates a long lasting client base.
2. marketing... some of these rappers arent getting their names out there so listeners to their genre don't find them so they perform poorly on sales... rule 2. the market place changes and so should how you brand and market yourself
3.never complain or talk down to the product your dont sell cause that just markets it for people
Em isn't all that anymore he's still decent but he is not anywhere near the top rn as opposed to his older self who was pretty much at the top routinely
Just because lyrical artists still have a following doesnt necessarily mean the style of music is still the trend
@Johnny Cab his new album has that mix and music to be murdered to has a great following for both projects the second one having more fan love than the first disc
@@1m2a3t4t5 trends mean nothing without sales buddy... these new rappers are hot for a minute and cold the next... very few keep a following that is consistent with the supports, thank fully for them there is streaming money and ad revenues to make up for their albums and music drops as well as merch or they would be in trouble... most of these new school are not breaking 200k first week let alone 150k on first week sales
@@knicks8099 his music sells... his 2 latest albums have been fire too, and there is more than Em out there who are lyrical with it
I feel like it's important to have an equal balance of good lyrics, flow, and overall catchy lyrics or something to remember the song by. Its evident that being technical or having great bars is not the only thing that makes a rap song good. But with many other opinions, this is entirely subjective.
You should also focus on Hooks and One-Liners these days too.
True though better rapper is kendrick but guy who make better music is kanye west
Yes
@@frankocean6676 I would agree if we see „better music“ as more successful music.
@Tyrell Wellick true but I'm talking about how I believe a good song should sound like, not whether it can become a hit or not.
"you can't put me in a box" says every rapper lol...
I noticed that. Rappers have catchphrases lmao
@@vercetti_03 At the end of the day
@@goodlieutenant8228 Youknowwhatimasayin
Usually the ones who say that make music that fits in the box, so its their fault
Music that has no meaning, purpose, or message always gets forgotten with the pass of time only finest Music stay nail to the heart surviving time and changes
not true, MF DOOM music doesn't move people emotionally in terms of invoking sadness pain, happiness etc for example but he will always be remembered because of his lyrical acumen
It comes down to definitions, being an artist is judged on artistry, being a musician is judged on musicianship, being a songwriter is judged on songwriting, being a rapper is judged on rapping!
Who tf said lyrical rap ain’t cool???
Nobody it's just that rappers who heavily base their identity on being "lyrical" are usualy trash
It’s not mainstream
It is but it's irrelevant and the people who try are like the Pink guy parody poltikz
All the kids that was forced to listen to nas whine about life by thier parents got sick of it and just wanna party.
@@BoleDaPole so they listen to songs about overdosing
*You can have great "turn-up" music and still have bars; just ask Schoolboy Q, Jay Rock, Anderson .Paak, and Big K.R.I.T., as well as perhaps Freddie Gibbs. Problem is, a lot of younger dudes in my age range (16-25) just use "popularity" as an excuse to disrespect the art of rapping.*
*The only difference between Gen X "golden age" rappers and rappers nowadays is that most of the well-known and respected rappers back then had their own sound and they all tried to outrap each other; we can do the same thing if we focus on being trendsetters and not trend chasers/clout-chasers.*
*We need MORE guys like Chance the Rapper, Joey Badass, J. Cole, JID, Big K.R.I.T., Freddie Gibbs, etc. Not less.*
WHY DOESN'T THIS COMMENT HAVE MORE LIKES?!!! This is literally the perfect explanation.
💯💯💯💯🤣
Yes sir!
@@balmain-i3e Fax, all these dumb comments have the most likes lol This is the most insightful and correct.
Young sir.... you are 100% spot on. I have stressed 1000 times that Trugoy (Dave from De La Soul) quoted Busta at the end of Church (maybe), from '05s Grind Date.... "Rap is the only thing that provides jobs for people that don't even love the $hit..." and its true. You just perfectly explained HipHop CULTURE versus its appropriation for clout and cash. De La were gonna quit when Stakes is High came out because of exactly what you're saying. I'm a proud Gen X fan who finds everything thats lost in mainstream, fire on the underground set. Preach, Youngblood. Good work.
Oh snap that’s me lol
No disrespect to you brother but I disagree with your assessment on comparing “mumble rap” and “rappity rap” I wouldn’t say you end up in the same place at the end of a 16 bars of a Kendrick track vs Uzi track. It’s not to say one is better than the other either but they are different. One track might just be there for vibes and to sound good while the other is there to really make you think. I like music as an art and hip hop has always evolved. I wish we could accept that all rap and hip hop styles helps the “culture” and create lanes for more people to express themselves.
@@cbrocafe He’s talking about rhyming for the sake of rhyming. Not conveying any ideas or dropping any gems within a verse/song/freestyle. When the lyrical content is fluff/filler and the words might not necessarily be easily audible/understandable (either due to a flow being too intricate/pretentious use of vocabulary OR due to the slurring/autotune aesthetic) then it doesn’t matter if it is rappity raps or mumbley mumbles...you still aren’t left with anything that conveys who the artist is or what he/she is tryna express (besides either turning up or dropping heavy handed lyricism). Tho I do agree that there should be multiple lanes and more room at the table for everyone to eat. Plus more respect across the genre between the sub-genres.
Regardless shout out to Scru Face Jean!
Scru face John!!
Yea I’m not old head and respect creativity at any level, but I definitely disagree with your assessment of people not understanding fast flows, a true filthy rapper like Aesop rock may sound like gibberish but that’s just because it’s complicated where as most mumble rap sequences are not, of course not all but I’m just saying, people don’t like hearing what the can’t understand, but how else can we learn? But I’m sure your point can be applied to a myriad of cases
Anybody can do what uzi does, find me another kendrick I'll wait
I put on OutKast in a stream the other day and somebody said it was bad rap. Andre3000, bad rap?
It seems people now confuse pop with rap because they weren't a fan of rap before it became pop. I have never felt like more of an old man lol
every new generation has to do their own thing, it'll swing back around to lyrics and content when the hype dies down and balances out
Lyrical rap will always be cool to me. Trends never will.
So what if lyrical rap becomes the trend?
@@Daniel-ch2vf I guess homeboy will just stop listening then lol
Lyrical rap was the trend back in the late 70s thru the 90s and mid 2000s lol dont that mean u hate it too?
Ayyy this is a homie
alright corny ass
Lyrical
Miracle
Spiritual
Individual
Spherical
Mythical
Criminal
Subliminal
Reciprocal
In your swimming pool
I'm sorry. Lyrics still matter.
Most music nowadays lack luster
Exactly
@@houseofmatrix6174 This whole video is dumb , Joyner is trash , why did you even put him here , there are tons of great rappers , JID , Joey , Freddie , Griselda , Earl , Mavi etc , you guys are dumb , Cole and and Kendrick arent the only ones
Eminem is corny nowadays too and rhymes for the sake of rhyming , dont put him in the convo again for TODAYS lyricists that are not corny
Rap which is not lyrical, is just something to dance too, as a fan you will like what ever you like, ppl still like lyrical rap.
yea but complexity dotn make shit better simple lyrics can add to the vibe j as much
Lyrical rap didn’t lose its cool.....people’s attention spans just got really really short. Lyrical raps makes you rewind the track about 3 or 4 times. Who really has time for that now??
Word bro... Word!!!
You are just smarter than everyone else stfu
The real enthusiasts do.
m.ruclips.net/channel/UCmYMCRI2C0jAwXClMrZT2WQplaylists
Everybody has as much time to check the lyrics as they do to check their FB or Insta for their likes. We have busied ourSELVES w/ other stuff. I have no social media and these comments are as close as I come but I bet you I will always hear the lyrics first. If the beat doesn't catch me though, I can't hear the lyrics but one feeds the other. Dope lyricists riding trash beats is a hard listen. Lyrical on dope beats is how it goes methinks...
@@cafemochamix of course people have time but look at how many rappers are making songs under 3 mins. That tells you the attention span of the young generation of today, they just can’t focus.
I'm a older head and what's interesting to me, is that from my perspective things actually haven't changed much. I get the point about being well rounded as opposed to a rapper that is just showing you how good they can flip words, however highly lyrical content rarely made it into the mainstream to begin with. Case in point how many people know Salt & Peppers Push it, as opposed to being familiar with Rakim's Lyrics of Fury. If I asked the average person if they heard back that thang up as opposed to music by Binary Star, most would recognize the cash money track. Mainstream music has always emphasized the hook over what was being said, and a lack of substance from folks who craved poetic content has been a complaint two decades before we even got to Kodac.
Most cats my age simply want balance., It has often been said that the golden era was not just about lyrics, but it was such an eclectic era of artist ranging from black conscious artist to pimps to storytelling like Slick Rick. It wasn't a matter of are you this or that, verbal or mumble, my point being is the golden era actually captures the well rounded nature of what this video is describing. Think about how danceable an Outkast song can be yet still have depth.
Boy this argument is age old ...Kool Moe Dee was the rappity rap guy vs LL Cool J ,the song maker with style in 1986
Yeah like literally, this debate just gets old. At the end of the day, your musical art either still sounds good 20-30 years later or it doesnt, that's it.
Eric B & Rakim, Kool G Rap, Big Daddy Kane, Slick Rick, Pete Rock & CL Smooth, Run DMC, MC Shan, Marley Mal, KRS-ONE, etc.
Never been an LL fan but recognize he had some bangers like "Jiggling Baby Remix" "Back Seat" "Boomin System" "Doin It". He sounded like a cornball on "I'm Bad" and "I need a Beat" was a "It's Yours" rip off.
Damn bro you just told your age lol
@@MeMyselfandEye127 I'm not ashamed. I didn't get this age by luck or accident.
Y’all sleep on KRIT too.
iDidnt hear anyone mention CyHi either
I’m still mad J. Cole wasted an hour talking to Lil Pump
Bro i didn't even watch it because i knew it would be cringe. Look at Pump's face...
In that clip alone dude look like a mix of "I don't even know what's going on" and "I'm scared."
Eh, give him props for trying. You don't know how many Pump fans watched it and heard Cole out, even if Pump himself didn't.
More like Pump wasted time talking to Cole lol
@@cyber-bully5063 In a sense, yes, because he entered that conversation prepared to troll and roll his eyes and ignore everything Cole said. He couldn't bring himself to do that but he couldn't bring himself to really let his guard down and be real either. It's tragic, and hopefully he'll be stronger the next time life presents him an opportunity to break out of his cage.
@@cyber-bully5063 no one wastes their time if they talking to cole lol tf
At this point in rap and hip-hop their is something for everyone.
Song are suppose to have “reason” now music is just ... without reason
Nah that’s actually false a lot of music didn’t have no meaning just beats wit no meaning
Bro this is such a stupid thing to say. So much is said nowadays, you wannabe oldheads just like to say stuff, just like the generation before you said about your music
I'm there for the Lyrics fast or slow I just can't listen to music with no meaning or message I wonna hear something on a deeper level
You gotta hear Mural by lupe fiasco. The most impressive lyrical display I've ever seen.
exactly man
@Raoul Herskovits out clubbing or parties or something ye but just sitting at home chilling earphones in I like something more
@Raoul Herskovits future get out
@Raoul Herskovits 😂😂😂for somebody that don't now me you think you know a lot about me what music do I like since you no so much apart from hip hop of course
Man imma come up with these metaphors & punchlines & b lyrical forever . Being lyrical will never go out of style cuz there is the internet. Might not b Mainstream anymore but there’s core lyrical fans all over the net.
I think that, lyrcial rappers, shouldn't always focus on the technical side.
They should have more fun with it,
Change the sound, don't always keep it the same. If they can adapt to a new sound, and add their own twist on it, it can be amazing. Lyricism/trap is already amazing.
It's no coincidence to me that Eminem was at his peak when he was joking around sslp-tes. The second Eminem tried to be cool and edgy and serious it was awful because he doesn't actually have anything to say 99% of the time so it's just cringey ass fast rapping.
@@joeytribianni9280 bro em up until 2013 had many things to say.
Lyrical rappers will always focus on the technical side
I’m into lyrical rap. It’s what I grew up with but at 24 I feel like an old head because I just can’t get into 3/4ths of this new shit. Shits depressing bro.
I feel like Cordae is a good example that people sleep on. Bro does new school songs but also shows his skills as well
As an artist that truly enjoys and loves both sides of hip hop, I always strive to make music that sounds good when you’re not listening deeply, but that also has the lyricism and substance for when you do listen closely. Great video!
The problem is gatekeeping and a superiority complex
That's a fact
@prod. Playboi Widow I’m 18 bro & those rappers are trash my guy . I know they got nice beats that make you bop but I feel dumb after
@mangusti hopo time to get a better set of ears. Alot of those artists you listed are good. You really gonna talk shit about pop smoke?
@super hessu i bet you just googled "2010s rappers" and then called them trash
@super hessu from what? old men telling me what not to like?
That is why I like watching rap battles, coz I feel like that's the only place were people still appreciate the art form in hip hop
2:57
Well, Biggie won Lyricist Of The Year over Nas back in the '95 Source Awards going to show that even back then personality and song-crafting >>>>>>>>> sheer lyricism.
I have no problem with lyrical or conscious rap. The thing is I listen to music to have fun and get away from that real world for a moment. Music is an escape, it sounds stupid but sometimes people don't want to think about reality for a moment.
Lyrical =/= conscious. Lyrics just have to flow and say something coherent to a beat and pace. Trap rappers cant even do so much of that anymore.
Lyrics don’t die and fade out.....trends do tho
The way young people consume music these days isn't really conducive to "lyrical rap."
In what way??
@@jeremyweru2893 Lyrical rap doesn't really fit in the viral dance/tik-tok world of today. If you look at tik-tok, or even snapchat, it's all about short clips which fits the mold more of today's younger rappers. I think it's more about the moment/song than an album and that to me isn't what lyrical rap is about.
@@ucomeb4december that would assume u don’t listen to actual whole song😒
@@showtimesportsmedia6906 I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't saying they don't listen to whole songs I'm saying in the tik-tok world of today's youth you don't need lyrical content to be popular. A viral dance or a catchy part can make you popular. You just need that little part that kids can put in the video and that's it.
Well there is alot more young ppl than you think that listen to actual rap not this bs we here nowadays. Including me and im not saying i dont listen to the young thugs futures yachtys etc. But im mostly a lyric rap fan. My favorite is Eminem up there is also andre 3000 big boi drake j cole kendrick lamar nas eric b rakim etc.
Music just compliments the mood and philosophy of the listener. No genre of rap loses it cool. Some may see a peak in popularity in certain era's, but they never really die out
plain facts.
Exactly 💯 -- just recycles (some adaptions) -- the others remain timeless as the pyramids
What's cool is decided in the board room, not the fans.
There’s a whole wave of dudes that make amazing lyrical shit; Medhane, Chuck Strangers, Earl Sweatshirt, Mavi, Slauson Malone, Nyck Caution, Kota, Marlon Craft, ect.. just gotta go underground for it.
The TikTok & RUclips shorts have shorten attention span and hence catchy chorus and hook grab more attentions than lyrical geniuses over 3 switches
There's gonna always be a kid going through hard times at home and need those lyrics those storys so he know he not alone and there is hope!! Thats what I used it for I needed my music 90s kid all day!!
Because
1- ppl don't wanna pay attention to message or wordplay or punchline anymore (even through in the young generation there is still young artists and listener who still care about that), and rap becoming a large access music help in that sense, since most of the ppl who listen to only rap "hit" ain't real hip-hop fan, so they literally just listening to rap as a entertainment only.
2- a lot of them (lyrical rappers) spend too much time on showing they are lyrical instead of making music. I mean Outkast and Slim Shady Eminem (1999-2004) are the perfect examples on how lyrical MAINSTREAMS rappers should be, lyrically but also musically interesting ( whether it's in terms of pure quality or in terms of lit/catchiness) . Not overdoing one over the other.
Wym
Lyrical rap was being considered depressing rap and ppl just wanna listen to a hot beat and dance all the time. At least some ppl can listen to multiple artist and genres. Rappers think its boring cause they cant do it or their fanbase will go down.
This whole video is dumb , Joyner is trash , why did you even put him here , there are tons of great rappers , JID , Joey , Freddie , Griselda , Earl , Mavi etc , you guys are dumb , Cole and and Kendrick arent the only ones
Eminem is corny nowadays too and rhymes for the sake of rhyming , dont put him in the convo again for TODAYS lyricists that are not corny
@@gkay8889 Bro Iv'e seen this comment like three times already in the comment section lol
@@gkay8889 Joyner Lucas is dope but his album sucked
@@haydenfisher1387 yeah man...hes nothin but a joyner hater 😂
This is false. Juice wrld and lil peep made "depressed rap" and they are def not lyrical rappers
lyrical rappers are always missing one of these 2 things: a good beat and less saturated bars/voice. Too many good songs they have to just be ruined by a nasty beat. They also need to slow down the lyricism. We’ll get your 16ths and double entendres, relax and synchronize. Some of the best MF Doom lyrics i’ve heard is when he’s featured on a song.
Big Pun was super lyrical, he even had a song titled that. All his hits like “it’s so hard” or “I’m not player” had lyrical verses. He just had image and swag to not make it seem preachy, but fun. I like everything and believe everything has as audience for a reason. 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Facts same wit Tupac there a reason why does rappers was able do what they was doing
All these lyrical rappers do now is rhyme big ass words wit other big ass words call dat lyrical you think niggas in hood want to hear dat
They ain’t even saying shit bout issues any mo
Lyrical rap will be here long after the mumble rappers fade into obscurity
Okay, lyrical myracle.
Facts.....ppl can say otherwise but the Truth is in reality....hip hop fans are still listening to Lyrical rappers from the 80s, 90s, and the 00s ....but, after these mumble rappers shine for 6 months nobody listens to that song anymore....no substance no Longevity....prove me wrong....
@@v.blakheart2905 lol 😂
Yep talent will always outlast trendy styles
It already did and it’s still not back
I don't know if I hate this video or I just strongly disagree.
I really don't like the commentary regarding Nas V. Jay-Z. They're both lyrical artists. Their subject matter differs. The beef wasn't about proving their lyrical ability. Both artists were already legends. It was just insults and name calling. So the analysis of it here as Nas being more lyrical than Jay seems foolish.
The key to Jay-Z's success was his ability to produce radio friendly hits AND the album's that showed the full extent of his ability.
Nas wasn't as good at that. His lyrical ability was always high caliber but he couldn't produce the album's that kept everyone's attention.
I hate the false choice of either you stay lyrical or dumb it down for mass appeal. Too many successful artists easily do both. That has always been true.
For example, not every rapper in the 90s or early 2000s were lyrical. But everyone was happy with the diversity. You had a more balanced mixture of commercial and substance.
In the golden era, everybody had unique styles even if they were from the same city.
Jay-Z, The Lox, DMX, Fat Joe, Busts Rhymes, all had distinct styles. You knew one artist from the other when you heard them on the radio.
Outkast, Goodie Mobb, Ludacris, T.I., all had distinct styles.
Twista, Bone-Thugs, Eminem, all had distinct styles.
The problem now is that everyone style sounds the same no matter where they are from. Fetty Wap sounds like Migos, Roddie Rich sounds like Yatchy, etc.
The beats, the lyrics, the production, the content. It all sounds the same with very few artists distinct enough to stand out. Most of these artists aren't impressive as a whole. The freestyles suck, the album's aren't very interesting, the substance is lacking.
I didn't think Nelly was a lyrical artist but at least he didn't sound like the Ying Yang Twins.
If anybody with a catchy hook can be considered a successful rapper. I don't see the point of calling the music they create rap music. The same way that we wouldn't call anybody who blows a saxophone a jazz artist.
No disrespect, and though I agree that nowadays most artists DO sound the same, to compare Fetty Wap to the Migos and Roddy Rich to Lil Yachty...🤔 Either, you're just throwing names together without much thought or you REALLY don't listen to new rap very much because those were some pretty BAD comparisons
@@nathandonkor921 facts if anything roddy ricch sounds like gunna and young thug. Roddy ricch has a song featuring gunna and i couldn't tell when gunnas verse started cause they sounded so similar
@@HiBrid9 😂😂😂
I dumbed down for my audience to double my dollars
They criticized me for it, yet they all yell "holla"
If skills sold, truth be told, I'd probably be lyrically Talib Kweli
Truthfully I wanna rhyme like Common Sense
But I did 5 mill' - I ain't been rhyming like Common since - Jay Z, Moment of Clarity verse 2
Well said!
Anyone thinking of logic's career and how he chose to evolve from a hardcore lyricist to a more mainstream rapper instead. Still keeping a go flow and could rap like crazy, but choosing to do more of a different style sometimes
Mr fall off at the end wasn’t even hearing cole. Homie was shook the whole time
People who don't recognize Eminem or Snoop or anyone else from the golden age are just sick. These are just idiots.
I mean, how dare someone says shit like Drake>Eminem?! Eminem paved the way for most of the rappers that are here today, Eminem made Hip Hop popular than ever. Eminem gave it perfection.
And now there's these clowns like 69 and Lil pump
I'm going to have to disagree with you when you say that there was less differentiation between rapping styles in 90s. Quite on the contrary, some of the greatest artists of the 90s who were all operating around the same time - lets take Nas, Biggie, Tupac, OutKast and the Fugees, all of whom were at the top of their game in 1996 - had wildly differing styles. Nas' dense, compact rhymes are completely different Andre 3000's slick southern drawl, and Tupac's self-assured swagger starkly contrasts with Lauryn Hill's almost sung, Jamaican-accented verses.
I had the same thought, was shocked when he said that, like RZA and Q-tip is both from new york but had different styles and music, I think its very ignorant tho, like just addmit you dont know that much if this statement is the one you have to make
@@KIBBA_MEELO Exactly.
Thank you!
I would definitely argue artists of today DEFINITELY sound more alike than 90’s artists.
90s hip-hop sounds like sht
@@PISStopherNolan touch some grass
My musical taste is all over the place, I guess I could be considered an old head given my age but I enjoy conscience rap, “lyrical miracle” rap, or mumble rap, depends on the mood I’m in tbh. My main issue is the artists that don’t have respect for hip hop and the genre as a whole. They wanna use hip hop influences to sell records but have no respect for it.
Mainstream follows the money if u love the art you’ll find the music. This has always been true wether it was singing or rapping....
Times change and rap music has always been about young people. So when I feel alienated by modern hip-hop I just gotta remind myself “its not made with me in mind”.
I think juicewrld was a good example of the evolution of lyrical rap to this generation. I don't consider juicewrld a lyrical raper as his main craft, because he was really versatile (master freestyler, amazing composser), however by definition most of his songs are telling a story, his rhyme schemes are insane and he basically freestyled all his work. I don't think lyrical rap is dead, I just think it evolved.
Fr especially his Lyricism on 10 feet
lol u mad
@Thomas
Huh? Who? Lmao I'm confused af
This guy literally said that 90s rappers indistinguishable besides their lyrical ability. Then had the nerve to put Lauryn Hill, Jay-Z, and Busta Rhymes in the same picture... Ethos dead.
This so called journalist is inept and has no idea wtf he’s talking about
I'm a proud oldhead when it comes to mainstream Hip-Hop.
lame open ur mind
“I’m a proud oldhead”-🧑🏼💻
@@deathgripsoverrater9285 👨🏿🦲
Lyrical rap is the foundation of hip hop. No matter what trend is happening, you can never erase the pillars of rap. Autotune is a trend just like bone thugs/twista type rap. It will always come back to who has BARS. Kendrick, Rapsody, etc will live on forever. Lil pump, boat, baby, etc will be just like crucial conflict and others that have come and gone
Man lyrical rap will never truly disappear from hip hop... but the art of song making in hip hop has shifted. Once upon a time song making was primarily about the bars, but now audiences care less about the words and their meaning and more about the production and the way that song makes them feel. Which is understandable to a degree... I mean music can never and will never cater to only one type of listener, and it shouldn't try too either. There are a lot of artist that are just absolutely lyrically amazing, but they cant make a good song to save their lives, and to be fair to some of those artist.. they aren't trying to make catchy music that people dance too and feel something. Eminem is a prime example... Eminem is an amazing lyricist that used to make interesting music that had content that we all kind of fell in love with. His bars spoke to a whole generation of young white kids that had never been represented in hip hop before even though they loved hip hop. He spoke about things that white america identified with, and also made it extremely entertaining. Even if you were a young black kid from the hood you could relate to Eminem because his story wasn't that different from other people of color that grew up in poverty. Fast forward and now Eminem is older, wiser, and rich as hell.... soooo those entertaining antics that used to get him attention just aren't appealing to a 40 something grown up anymore. His bars are better than ever but he doesn't really have anything to say, especially to the youngsters that are growing up today. No one really identifies with Em anymore in hip hop except the old heads that remember what he used to be, i think its one of the reason why more people are taking shots at him, that years ago when Em was in his prime wanted no smoke with that white boy. People are just making music where they want their listener to appreciate what they have to say. I've been that old head for a long time, anti mumble rap and the whole nine... but ive gotten to this place where I can respect some of the artist that are rising and when i keep an open mind and ears i realize that their is talent there, buried under drill sound, or some banging beat, or some auto-tuned voice half singing half rapping on a track. To my fellow hip hop heads, maaaaann keep supporting good music and promote it whenever you can. To my old heads try not to be too judgmental of the new wave. lol
I don’t even know what lyrical means anymore, i just like replayable music with substance
Lyrical rap is dope. But you HAVE to have good songs lyrical or not
There’s a time and a place 4 everything. Wit that being said, u need a good balance of both introspective rap as well as fun rap. There’s more than enuff 4 everyone 2 thrive & survive on.
I wish your comment had more likes. Everybody here is literally gate keeping
Agreed
Exactly my thoughts 🤝
If lyricism is becoming less "cool", then what hip hop represents will go away. Hip hop IS about the lyrics. Listening to the artists story, hearing their point of view on popular issues, politics, and life. If it's not that, it's not hip hop. Period.
I keep on saying that but sadly nowadays it has no meaning what so ever 97 percent of the music genre is shit
Lyricism isn’t dat anymore thinking bout all these lyrical rappers do is use big words etc nobody ain’t trying to hear dat use simple words so people can get yo message
@@tynew8650 using words you don’t understand doesn’t mean you’re a good rapper mate nobody ever said it. On the other half, if you’re too dumb to figure out what the fuck is being said just because they used a word you don’t know, gtfo of hip hop.
This is the exact gatekeeping mentality hip hop needs to get away from
@@rabd9881 It think the issue is on both sides. Yes the oldheads (like myself) should let the younger generation have it's fun. But the younger generation needs to put more effort in their work. Not saying you can't have fun.
The real problem with hip hop is that it isn't as diverse in its styling as it should be. Every style has a place in hip hop but when its over saturated by one thing it stagnates or deteriorates. There's room for it all in hip hop anything else said is bullshit. There has been a gradual dumbing down of our society and a few things we observe today are exacerbated by this dumbing down of the population. The fall of lyricism is one of them. Also this is what happens when most rappers and media commentators don't actually LOVE the art form. Not speaking of them all just the majority of them. When you don't LOVE or RESPECT something you don't treat it with the care it deserves. When you don't LOVE or RESPECT something you just see it as a tool to get paid. Let's be real most of these guys didn't grow up with a deep love for the art form. They grew up listening to boy bands and similar pop music. Conveyor belt music with little actually soul, just made to hit certain prerequisites in order to top the charts not to express your artistry for the love of it. Just look how they talk about hip hop and rap. They act like rap isn't to be respected. They don't want to be called rappers don't want their music to be called rap? Like rap music isn't the most diverse and versatile genre of music. Rap is to be respected like any music genre. There is no way rock or country would let someone come in their genre of music and say they don't like rock or country. They wouldn't let someone come in and say "oh I don't like rock or country" "I just make rock or country music for money" "I don't listen rock or country" then put no effort into it. Rap is the only genre of music who let's that weird shit fly. And let's not act like you can't listen to a song for the lyrics and listen to the same song and have fun n tune the lyrics out. A lot of consumers of rap are more interested at appearing relevant or riding the newest zeitgeist these days. The framing of this was pretty weird sometimes and lacked the nuance this discussion truly deserves. There is place for it all in this genre people need to quit hating on the non lyrical guys and the non lyrical guys need to quit being so defensive. Its rap, the lyrics are a vital part of it no matter how you try to spin it so of course ppl are going to be critical of that aspect of it; that's what happens when you make "art 🙄" for public consumption. People are going to critique it. That is nothing new whatsoever.
m.ruclips.net/channel/UCmYMCRI2C0jAwXClMrZT2WQplaylists
if you genuinely think that the fall of lyricism is a sign of society becoming dumber then you genuinely don't understand anything about how the arts contribute the structure and forum around society.
Hip hop music was invented on the basis of lyrics, storytelling, this generation will never understand that people be listening to the beats sadly end is near for lyrical rap
The true school hip hop, timeless, classic emceeing never lost its cool in the mind of true school hip hop heads only dumb people hate true school hip hop. Unfortunately the world is in a downward spiral it's why music with meaningful content isn't promoted. RAP IS NOT POP IF YOU CALL IT THAT THEN STOP!
Calm down my man no need to get upset 😂😂
@@alistercapone1211 Yeah, so much dumb shit happening today drives me wild
This whole video is dumb , Joyner is trash , why did you even put him here , there are tons of great rappers , JID , Joey , Freddie , Griselda , Earl , Mavi etc , you guys are dumb , Cole and and Kendrick arent the only ones
Eminem is corny nowadays too and rhymes for the sake of rhyming , dont put him in the convo again for TODAYS lyricists that are not corny
You need only one comment to prove your point, pls don't put the same comments copy pasting them...it's annoying GKay
That’s why hip hop ain’t even hip hop any mo it ain’t made to get a message across all people just the ones they say are intelligent
People have gone from going to saying that rap was telling the stories about what's going on in the society to saying i hate serious rap 👏👏👏
Lyrical rap lives forever, most of these new hip-hop music gets old after a few listening sessions 🤦
y'all make it look like being lyrical is the only thing that matters, it really isn't like that no more. Lyrics are important still but ya gotta be catchy and entertaining to the ears as well
@@donathan2933 they think lyrical rap is the epitome of rap no one gives a shit if you can rap at 500 words a minute.
it's like saying every track athlete is a good at football cos their fast
@@axz647 Umm no. It's not about rapping 500 words a minute. It's about having well crafted lyrics with good delivery. Rapping fast is just a style some rappers have.
@Anna smith nigga I said lyrics are not the only thing about rap that matters. There are other styles of rap that don’t focus as much on lyrics 🤦🏾♂️
Nope
Lyricsm is still important and lowkey evolving and is being implimented into alot of rappers' songs now; people like Polo G, J.I. the Prince of NY, and even Lil Uzi Vert are lyrical but melodic at the same time. Non- melodic rappers like DaBaby is lyrical and hes huge. Rapping fast is obsolete tho on the other hand.
Someone’s gonna figure out one day you need a perfect balance of both
I love the bars when it gets technical but I love the turn up, f it just keep putting eminem on dope ass beats and I'm impressed that I have to rewind it because I found something new in the bars that I may of missed, tbh as I said I understand the new wave but at the same time if you're that technical you can be called a better rapper saying that you could use a modern style and be just a better artist
Basically
Oldskool technicality = the science of rap
New school wave = the art of rap
I listen to all kinds off rap: lyrical, mumble, melodic, etc
Why is the term mumble rap still being used in 2020?
@@BitchChillbecause that’s what it is.
@@BitchChill if someone mumbles in rap it's mumble rap wym
Yup these old heads annoying af
@@nadirgumerzindo8293 The people who are considered mumble rappers don't even mumble
Rapper are getting measured by the beats.
True, unfortunately.
man, lyrical rap has never really lost its cool, it's just that hip-hop got more mainstream pop. lyrical rap or even the chopper rap speed, are like metal to me, they're never going to be fully mainstream , they're in between worlds. Eminem back then, his formula was to release a pop rap song, like the real slim shady, without me, etc and then release the more "meaningful" rap song. he was smart in terms of knowing his audience. I learn late that not everyone cares for double meaning and most rely on the word of others that these rappers are lyrical or not.
there's always the surface level raps and if you stray away from it, you might not get noticed. it's like if grunge came earlier to the mainstream consciousness during the height of ugh, hair metal. might not have change anything. One of my fav rappers is Aesop Rock and his lyrics is the only ones that i have to rewind to hear what he is trying to say (other than the fast rappers in general) and he is nowhere near the mainstream "elites". With that said, I think some lyrical rappers have a hard time writing a hook or chorus.
i've always wanted to learn how say, some rock bands, can say so much with so little words, made me realize, we got to strike a balance when writing raps too. However, it is now monotonous with what's out there but it's always been that way. there will always be the more popular sound, the hit makers and the spit creators. two different worlds. Jay-z and Eminem are good examples of both. Tupac wasn't the most lyrical but you felt his words, and that's the real thing, you got to feel it before you support someone. You must believe in his or her music.
Simple as that, really.
Kendrick , is lyrical but he also write decent hooks and generally nice beats. I have a hard time, making the right beats but it's ok, live and learn as they say.
These weirdos have a hit and we listen for a few months. Lyrical content creates music we revisit for years and years after it’s been released. There’s no comparison.
The crazy thing is I actually don't think it's no longer cool or it's over as far as lyricism goes. It's just over for now and not cool for now in the mainstream world. You have to look for it. And honestly I think it'll circle back in a few years. A beast lyrical rapper that no one can deny, whether they are a man or a woman or maybe even nonbinary will change the game. And lyricism will be a trend again. Watch. History always repeats itself. Hell, I even think rock will be mainstream again too. Anything underground eventually comes to the surface.
Yeah that was another thing too in culture things and trends and what the culture deems be important sway back and fourth all the time and thats across all art forms
I like lyrical rap. I have to listen to music that's telling me something, like a story. It doesn't even have to be profound or deep. If a dude is gonna talk about drugs, cool, but be more than that. Even as a hobbie, I don't write shit that has no meaning.
Jay being more "successful" than Nas being the downfall of lyricalism is the Mr. Fantastic of stretches...dont most people consider both lyrical?
I agree. What a dumb take.
@@MrCbwTV your’re a nobody relax
@@impacc4182 u hurt
Even though Nas is _more_ lyrical than Jay, both are extremely lyrical. Jay just concentrated a little more on the musical side of things.
@@impacc4182 tbf most people in this comment section are nobodys
I couldn't even get through the full video because it over looks one extremely vital point. Most "Rapper Rappers" don't really care to follow the market or the trend of the mainstream audience who generally aren't really rap fans to began with. They just stay in their lane and love what they do. Accolades and charts mean very little these days, especially when top charting rappers are usually burned out within 2 to 5 years... where's Yatchy and Pump today? Success for "lyrical rappers" isn't measured by sales.
(100 percent agree with the rapping fast or rhyming a lot doesn't mean quality though).
I still don’t get how this is a big deal. It’s fucking music at the end of the day. Listen to whatever you want and don’t let others force you to change your opinion.
Only reasonable comment on this shit ass video and comment section.
almost nobody bring up denzel currys name for some reason
He didn’t say Joey badass at the start
Denzel Curry is one of the best lyricists out there and his name never comes up in the conversation. Same goes for Big K.R.I.T.
I was having this convo the other day and thought of Denzel!! He needs to blow up for real!!
Not really a fan of Denzel Curry
@Big D exactly
The reason Joyner aint poppin so much is because IMO he abandoned his formula when he got a little sucess. His covers of Gucci Gang and Panda are amazing and what I think got him popular, because he brought that energy, now that energy seems to have disappeared. I may be wrong but I think people still enjoy lyricism, J.Cole and Kendrick are good examples of that. When they drop albums they are still extremely popular. Are we just gonna pretend that Middle Child and Humble didn't happen?
I get what the video is saying, but MF DOOM is still the greatest of all-time
How is top teir lyricism not cool when, Jay Em, Kdot and Cole outsell all mumble rappers and its not even close.
They have major established names. Thats why they sell.
@@mrpj1390 They have major established names because they're great lyricist. Thats what established their names to be able to sell.
@@acephalos5026 Yea......back when quality lyrics were still in demand. If they were just now coming out they would of never took off like they did years ago.
@@mrpj1390 Idk about that. Quality always stands out. Its not like kdot is from the 90s or something. Kdot and Future (probably the biggest mumble rapper out) both debuted in 2012. Great Lyrics and content will always get you further and have more sustainability if you ask me. Future still gets played a lot but he aint doing kdot numbers and never will. Lyricism cant be uncool, especially when so many more people still find it much more worth the purchase than mumble rap.
Good lyrics were never enough. It takes charisma and the look is always a factor. These days artist just lack the package. They would rather make a melodic hit for a quick buck. “Lyrical Rappers” just decided to make more of a contextual project over the years. Unfortunately these type of projects don’t sell as many records so artist default to the easy route ... Lyrics and fast rapping don’t go hand and hand by the way.
Also, the shit that is selling the most isnt necessarily the best out. It’s just marketed better. A lot of this shit is smoke and mirrors.
Long story short, like what you like. Don’t contribute to the mainstream opinion. Music is in a beautiful place right now. There’s sooo many vibes and unforgettable talented artist , just do some exploring.
And what lil yachty said about “serious rap” made me lose every ounce of respect for him. Man doesnt have one good song. He essentially won the lottery when it comes to this rap shit. Garbage catalog.
In the long run, the serious/talented rappers will win. These SoundCloud guys had a nice lil run but it’s clearly over. All these “Lils” are just MC hammer clones. Gimmicks. Not gonna last long.
One hit wonders. It’s so obvious the artist with talent and morals win at the end of the day.