I'm just gonna say it: base game scions>these dudes. Elite tokens do NOT make up for re roll 1's Bs3. Unless you literally get 10 per turn, then maybe. . Which you don't. So yeah everything needs to upped in BS.
I like them being the mid point between true Imperial elites trained from childhood and regular guard, fits the background well. If they prove too weak the obvious tweak is to first allow elite points to be used in defence (experience allows them to use cover better) which would boost the trooper a bit more (would get a point for defence as well as attack), and the second would be to have the trooper generate 1 extra point a turn to have it more competitive with other choices.
I like em. with a handful of powerful weapons and a bank of elite points, you could rush a few enemy units and kill half their team. I think for ITD they will turn out to be quite good, but glass cannons. It'll be about decisive strikes. Its that elite ability. A few key roll adjustments could easily turn the battle!
I just played my first games with the Kasrkin and I thought they were a blast. Looking at the rules for the Scions I feel like the elite points is a way better deal than the orders and having the sniper on the Kasrkin dishing out MW3 on crits from cover is pretty bonkers. I think you also missed one of the craziest combos these guys have as well. Give'em Reposition (1CP), Comms buffs the Melta gunner, So now you've got Free Dash before the turn, Dash, Move, Shoot (pentagon range) giving you an 18 inch threat range on your second activation from turn 2 onward. With elite points to buff the shot, you've got an AP2 shot with a guaranteed crit doing MW4 and the regular hits doing 6 damage. Unless you're going against a custodie with a storm shield you're probably going to kill just about anything on the board with a threat range that's a good chunk of the board. Against an elite team, them losing 1 Operative at the top of turn 2 could be a huge difference, especially if this guy survives the turn and runs the play a second time.
Elimination patter interacts with recon trooper which is cool but it seems they are really trying to *hint hint nudge nudge* get you to play kasrkin in really close quarters. How often are you shooting at a target without cover, except when within 2 inches, and there's the Clearance ploy for a free elite point while within 4 inches. Very thematic but I feel like they'd be more effective while outside of charge range.
@@CanYouRollaCrit Maybe the play well vs each other and that makes this box kinda decent self contained match ups.. But these both get just rolled by 14 vet guard, pathies, ad mech etc
Hm, I´m kinda dissapointed by Kasrkins. Elite rule looks strong. I think, after dice altering abilities of Novitiates, GW will avoid something similar in with future teams. Lack of orders is boomer. 4+ WS for majority of team is lame... no overcharge with hot-shot weapons is lame too. Really, I was looking forward to Kasrkins, but this really dissapointed me.
@@CanYouRollaCrit I was hoping for good orders, maybe a cooler abilities of elite soldiers... I don´t know, I think Kasrkins missed the potential. Yes, maybe in the game, they would perform ok. But as replacement for Comendium Scions (I think), they are "weak" to me.
At first I was thinking, elite points seem pretty cool, especially normal troops getting to use one for free, then I read hits on 4+ Has anyone done the math on this vs 3+ reroll 1s? Seems horrible that’s not taking into account being able to do mission action for 1 less ap either
I don't get the hype with Demo-guy. You can't put the mine down and trap people and since most units activate alone only 1 enemy can trigger it. Its its like a 1 off melta. Am i missing something?
I think that having a 4+ BS is okay (Pathfinders do just fine), elite helps with mid rolls becoming good and good rolls becoming great, and you have a full reroll play (which you have to plan around and it's good that you have too) But their durability and equipment is amisable Foregrip and adrenaline (compendium tau have had better version, at least make it ignore injured condition fully) is a joke 4 grenades, 1 is frag, 2 others are do nothing on a roll of 4+ or worse one time per game Make stuff like shock grenades as reliable as Tau photon nades and they might see play As for durability - is 8 wounds to much to ask for? There is just 10 dudes, 7 wounds and 4+, anything like P! bolters is going to delete 1 kasrkin per action even in cover Tac ops and ploys are very good tho I hope they just will give them 8 wounds in new balance dataslate Scions having bs 3+ and rerolling 1s isn't a good design, Kasrkin are much better in this regard, i just hope they'll make them more durable
This looks like a Death or Glory team. You just need to rush in there blasting, because your not going to make it to turn 3. This is the Original Glass Cannon.
@@melaniemassicotte6212 28.5mm is relatively new, GW's been using them a lot more frequently it seems to somewhat phase out 25mm without bumping all the way up to 32mm.
Coming here and reading these comments now after the 2023/24 balance dataslate made them ridiculously powerful is quite amusing.
I'm just gonna say it: base game scions>these dudes. Elite tokens do NOT make up for re roll 1's Bs3. Unless you literally get 10 per turn, then maybe. . Which you don't. So yeah everything needs to upped in BS.
I like them being the mid point between true Imperial elites trained from childhood and regular guard, fits the background well.
If they prove too weak the obvious tweak is to first allow elite points to be used in defence (experience allows them to use cover better) which would boost the trooper a bit more (would get a point for defence as well as attack), and the second would be to have the trooper generate 1 extra point a turn to have it more competitive with other choices.
I like em. with a handful of powerful weapons and a bank of elite points, you could rush a few enemy units and kill half their team.
I think for ITD they will turn out to be quite good, but glass cannons. It'll be about decisive strikes. Its that elite ability. A few key roll adjustments could easily turn the battle!
Ah I find they really don't like ITD sadly
My issue is they are still hitting on 4+. Guard orders for take aim feels like much more economy. The elites feel worse than veterans..
Well, compendium scions have been my main team and I guess that's not gonna change.
Chad Scions players are eating today
Well I was kinda hoping the kasrkin would be good
I only know how to pronounce reconnoitre because Zeratul said it once in Brood War.
I just played my first games with the Kasrkin and I thought they were a blast. Looking at the rules for the Scions I feel like the elite points is a way better deal than the orders and having the sniper on the Kasrkin dishing out MW3 on crits from cover is pretty bonkers. I think you also missed one of the craziest combos these guys have as well. Give'em Reposition (1CP), Comms buffs the Melta gunner, So now you've got Free Dash before the turn, Dash, Move, Shoot (pentagon range) giving you an 18 inch threat range on your second activation from turn 2 onward.
With elite points to buff the shot, you've got an AP2 shot with a guaranteed crit doing MW4 and the regular hits doing 6 damage. Unless you're going against a custodie with a storm shield you're probably going to kill just about anything on the board with a threat range that's a good chunk of the board. Against an elite team, them losing 1 Operative at the top of turn 2 could be a huge difference, especially if this guy survives the turn and runs the play a second time.
Yeah but they only do well into elites
It is pronounced recon-oi-ter great video! Will be picking up the box
Haha thanks. Nice, that's great to hear!
@12:35 it’s pronounced wreck-on-OY-ter
I'll take your word for that 🤣😭
Elimination patter interacts with recon trooper which is cool but it seems they are really trying to *hint hint nudge nudge* get you to play kasrkin in really close quarters. How often are you shooting at a target without cover, except when within 2 inches, and there's the Clearance ploy for a free elite point while within 4 inches. Very thematic but I feel like they'd be more effective while outside of charge range.
Very cool models.. Another strange team. Feels like they pulled back against power creep and gave us two C level teams in this box.
Yeah which I love but the outside meta is not at their level haha
@@CanYouRollaCrit Maybe the play well vs each other and that makes this box kinda decent self contained match ups.. But these both get just rolled by 14 vet guard, pathies, ad mech etc
Oh totally. They cannot beat the S tier and most of A tier teams
Hm, I´m kinda dissapointed by Kasrkins. Elite rule looks strong. I think, after dice altering abilities of Novitiates, GW will avoid something similar in with future teams. Lack of orders is boomer. 4+ WS for majority of team is lame... no overcharge with hot-shot weapons is lame too. Really, I was looking forward to Kasrkins, but this really dissapointed me.
They're okay but just average. Wish they had more outside of "more gun"
@@CanYouRollaCrit I was hoping for good orders, maybe a cooler abilities of elite soldiers... I don´t know, I think Kasrkins missed the potential. Yes, maybe in the game, they would perform ok. But as replacement for Comendium Scions (I think), they are "weak" to me.
At first I was thinking, elite points seem pretty cool, especially normal troops getting to use one for free, then I read hits on 4+
Has anyone done the math on this vs 3+ reroll 1s? Seems horrible that’s not taking into account being able to do mission action for 1 less ap either
I believe the stats are 2.88 hits with EP and 3.11 with re roll 1s 👀
Oh god. Also it seems like extra book keeping for no reason. All they had to do is add the specialist units to the scion stats and be done. 🤦♂️
What were they thinking
They were thinking of the people who didn't want to play into them at events 🤣
I noticed the Gunners dont have "max one per kill team" on the roster page. Like the Imperial Breachers
They do
@@CanYouRollaCrit massive misinterpretation on my part
Is this the same as the individual boxed kaskrin kill team?
Yeah
So what does this team need to be better than scions? BS 3+?
BS3 would be a great start imo. Scions also just have better orders too
@@CanYouRollaCrit They actually HAVE orders, Kasrkin don't seem to have any at all.
I don't get the hype with Demo-guy. You can't put the mine down and trap people and since most units activate alone only 1 enemy can trigger it. Its its like a 1 off melta. Am i missing something?
You can deny an objective entirely, since objective control zones are 2" as well.
@@FinestSeven that is... actually a very good point
I think that having a 4+ BS is okay (Pathfinders do just fine), elite helps with mid rolls becoming good and good rolls becoming great, and you have a full reroll play (which you have to plan around and it's good that you have too)
But their durability and equipment is amisable
Foregrip and adrenaline (compendium tau have had better version, at least make it ignore injured condition fully) is a joke
4 grenades, 1 is frag, 2 others are do nothing on a roll of 4+ or worse one time per game
Make stuff like shock grenades as reliable as Tau photon nades and they might see play
As for durability - is 8 wounds to much to ask for?
There is just 10 dudes, 7 wounds and 4+, anything like P! bolters is going to delete 1 kasrkin per action even in cover
Tac ops and ploys are very good tho
I hope they just will give them 8 wounds in new balance dataslate
Scions having bs 3+ and rerolling 1s isn't a good design, Kasrkin are much better in this regard, i just hope they'll make them more durable
This looks like a Death or Glory team.
You just need to rush in there blasting, because your not going to make it to turn 3.
This is the Original Glass Cannon.
Can I use dkok Grenadairs as these guys?
Not really as they're on 25mm but also a little shorter and slimmer than Kasrkin but depends on your TO
Amazing models. Amazing fluff. Terrible rules.
BS 4 is crap, and the 'elite' points don't make up for it. Scions are strictly better. Feels bad.
Yup, it's a real shame
Why the hell can’t the SGT have a plasma pistol and power weapon?
GW have been minimising that combo since after Octarius
Because it's the only loadout that makes sense?
At least you have a tradeoff between better melee or better pistol now
What's the size of their base?
28mm
@@CanYouRollaCrit is that a new size? I never heard of 28mm
@@melaniemassicotte6212 28.5mm is relatively new, GW's been using them a lot more frequently it seems to somewhat phase out 25mm without bumping all the way up to 32mm.
Reconnoter it's pronounced, think metre or centre 😂
My brain 😭😭😭