I entirely agree with your 20mph and throttle suggestions, but in addition, the 250W motor limit needs to be removed, so that the bike can cope with steeper hills and/or heavier loads.
Agreed! but they aint gonna do it are they? I don't see what the size of the motor matters If its speed is restricted. 20 mph and 500watts would be a reasonable compromise. Any way I have NEVER been pulled over so I am considering getting a more powerful motor so as to tackle all the steep hills here in Bristol.
@@siriosstar4789 That's because these 250w rated mid drive bikes on sale in the shops are nominally rated for 250, They actually peak much higher! They get past the laws by being classed as providing a continuous 250w, But when you start taxing them, Like riding up inclines, They push a lot more to give you that torque. Don't think for a second that 80/90/120 NM of torque is being produced from 250watts of output lol
@@danimayb: Was thinking about that - there are some battery electric motorbikes which use the same trick (if I remember correctly, there's one which has a continuous power rating of about 11kW to keep it in the A1 licence category, but its peak is something like 19-ish kW).
It’s only the *assisted* speed which is limited. There are very few restrictions, but an EAPC is legally defined as having a max assisted speed of 15mph. You can pedal faster, but not allowed to have assistance over that.
If you can pedal fast enough you can go 70 mph BUT and its a big BUT, The motor has to cut out at 15.5 mph/25 Kph. So you are only allowed assistance from the motor until you hit 15.5 mph at which point it cuts out and you are on your own again. Its a bloody nuisance because(being a senior) that 15.5mph is just below my normal travelling speed so great until I hit 15.5mph and i find it keeps cutting in and out, go over 15.5 motor cuts, i cant maintain the speed without the motor so it drops below the 15.5 and cuts in again ad infinitum.
@@1over137 I believe it's actually called "riding furiously" and it dates back to 1835 I think other than that there are no speed restrictions of cycles.
@Adriab King That's a good point. I was going 22mph on my Fiido D4S a few months ago. And two road bike riders whizzed past me. Theres either a speed limit on ALL BIKES or not at all. Its DOUBLE STANDARDS all day long. And inconsistency does not stand up in this life. You either have a speed law for all wheeled vehicles or not at all. The BEAUTY of having a hybrid bike like a D4S. which has a 250w motor and unlocked can go about 22mph on it's own power. BUT also has 6 regular gears that can also propel me at least 22mph. Is it would be impossible for it to be proven I was going that fast by using the motor as I always ghost pedal even on pure throttle. Whereas someone on a PURE ELECTRIC MOPED, SCOOTER, MOTORBIKE. Literally hasnt got a leg to stand on. Their speed could only be generated by the motor. That's why a geared hybrid ebike is the SMART choice to get around these ridiculous speed laws.
I left the UK 15 years ago. I don't recognize my country anymore. Massive nanny state, but what's worse is how many of my old friends have changed too and have become compliant sheep. Anyway here in Thailand I have a 3kW and 1.5 kW ebike :)
Dude! Spot on. I find certain places are much less sheepish than others... I live in Chester where everyone has turned into a hive mind of high-horsed'ness! Me and the missus won't even go anywhere local anymore. If we go to walk the dog, or go out for dinner... We head towards the Wirral and everybody is infinitely more friendly and they actually appear to think for themselves.
@@christheobald6183 With regards to Electric bikes I believe Australia is worse than the UK, hard to believe but they still use the old UK laws of 15 mph which is 0.5 mph slower than the UK and they also still have a 200 watts limit which is a massive 50watts lower than the EU law but the exact same as the UK law limit. I think in the UK at least in London anyway we mix and match the laws, UK law for twist and go, EU law for power, UK law for anything we can get away with and EU law for that which we can't. But Australian law on Ebikes is pretty dismal unless it has changed at all recently.
In the USA, most ebike riders mistakenly think that their renter's or homeowner's insurance will cover damage to the ebike and personal injury... That is only true with regular bicycles.. once a motor is installed, nothing is covered by renter's/homeowner's insurance.. I purchased Ebike coverage thru Velosurance (subsidiary of Markel insurance) I have $10k coverage for my eTrike and $40k liability insurance to cover others if i cause the collision. My regular health insurance covers me. (as long as collision is not my fault) That is why i always stream my rides to the Cloud.. if i'm in a collision, i now have proof to show who is at fault.. Even if the camera is damaged, it is safely stored in the cloud. My GoPro7 saved me over $60k in personal injury, ER visits, therapy and replacement of eTrike.. A driver ran a red light and broadsided me. If i didn't have footage of the green light i was on and the car colliding with me, I would have been out $60k... you are very smart to record.. if you ever have a collision. immediately remove the MicroSD card and place it in a safe place.. you must have the original SD card to use for evidence in a court of law... The courts will not accept a downloaded version or a youtube video version because those could have been edited. Must be the original SD card.
There's a couple of issues here, the first is a cyclist doesn't need to have insurance, they don't need to have passed a theory or practical exam. There is a reason why motorcyclists have to do a CBT, pass a theory and practical exam. The answer to this problem is simple, if you own a full car or motorbike license then you should be permitted to go above 250W, if you do not have these, then you should be capped at 250W.
That’s a very good point. I’d even go as far as to say take a cycling proficiency style test/course and then the cap can come off as riding a bike and driving a car are very different experiences. Thanks for stopping by 🙌
Yeah…agreed. Point being…if you passed a road license test…bike or car…it proves you know your Roadcraft. That should uncap them and stop 14 YO getting the faster bikes.
I would have thought a full driving license already entitles you to ride an e bike with a motor bigger than 250w as it allows you to ride a scooter up to 50cc ? is that not the case.
@@paulrae4719 It's about the registration. Where I am I can build a bike any power I want but legally if it's more than 750 watts then I have to get it inspected by the state police to get it registered as a motorcycle then regular speed and traffic laws apply incuding needing a motorcycle license and insurance. If it can be propelled by pedals, is 750 watts or less and has class restrictions on speed (20 mph on throttle 28 with pedal assist) then all that's needed is to be over 16 years old.
yep . this 20 miles an hour and a throttle is worth to start a petition. Being overtaken on narrow streets is really dangerous and slowing the traffic is bad for the environment.
yes, the overtaking by vehicles has been the most dangerous time for me as drivers pull in sharply to avoid a head on with oncoming in the opposite lane. Without a throttle how are we supposed to do a hill start? ebikes are much heavier as it is, and if you have things in paniers or whatever then its impossible
A nice clear video. They are a great way of getting about, I got rid of my car a year ago and do all of my travelling by ebike. The downside to me isn’t speed but torque as I live in a very hilly area (Cumbria). If there is a assist speed limit (and yes I'd agree 20 makes more sense) I don’t really see why there needs to be a power limit and would remove that to open them up to more people. I also think the power increase would encourage more cargo bikes. I’m really pleased that I made the switch. It has saved me money, got me fitter and generally made me happier. eScooters are great too and I’m in one of the trial areas and use them for one way trips to the station but I find the bike is more versatile for carrything things and I often use a trailer with it.
: since January 1, 2016, the only throttles legal within the EAPC legislation are those that assist the rider without pedalling up to a maximum speed of 6 km/h (3.7 mph) - i.e. starting or walking assistance only. If the rider is rolling - but not pedalling - faster than 6km/h, the throttle must cut off. If the cyclist is pedalling at the same time, then the throttle can still assist up to 15.5mph (25kph). Namely to ride an ebike without driving licence and insurance it must conform to Pedelec law. My recommendation is for your video to make sure this fact is very clear.
Brilliant information, keep er lit. I got myself an e-bike just over a year ago and it’s the best fun I’ve had in ages. The reason I got an e-bike is that I had a heart attack, it gets me off my ass , and no it’s not cheating cause you still have to put effort in to get to wherever you’re going. Keep up the good work 😃🙌💥
Thank you Matthew. Appreciate the comment. And awesome that you are an ebiker and that it’s getting you out and about. Love to hear these kind of stories. Best wishes to you!
It is definitely cheating I had been riding mountain bikes for 20+ years and ebikes are not even close to being as hard to ride as a normal bike. But it is fun as heck and requires some but only a fraction of the energy as a non motorized bike.
@@GreenSlug420 OMG, you've realised that an ebike is nowhere near as hard to ride as a normal bike, duh,..that's the whole point of an ebike. Not everybody wants to end up feeling knackered and sweaty at the end of a journey.
@@GreenSlug420 If I was 20 I might agree with you, but I'm nearly 73 and I'm surrounded by hills, I'm just not capable of getting up them without some sort of power. Anyway getting people out of cars sometimes has got to be a good thing!
Ive had an ebike for the past 7 years and totally rate them 👍 but as you say 15.5 is way too slow 👎 an acceptable speed would be 20mph at least we could keep up with slow traffic and not be a hindrance to car drivers who hate us!🤣🤣🤣 there are ways to increase speed illegally but if caught you’re in for the high jump, plus it drains the battery too quick. I’m retired so I mainly go out to enjoy the day and take my time, but it would be good to go a bit quicker say 18-20mph would be better and safer 👌👍 thanks for putting this up to the masses👌
You sly bastard lol. Carefull around the feds though. They actually clock you wizzing off away at 35-40mph in their car, and i doubt the 250w sticker will help much.
@@Kumari_44 To be honest, I'm not that keen on going over 20mph, the main advantage is larger motor/larger battery = more range. I get 32-50 miles depending on the assist level, most 250w bikes get 15-20 miles.
He's a much kinder person than I would have been. Most of us have been around long enough to know what kind of judgemental person he is before he even opened his mouth. You could have shown him the law on your phone and he would have just dismissed you - probably calling you many obscenities in the process. Once i'd have established he wasn't willing to listen i'd have told him to f-off and mind his own business, but that's just me.
Because the health and safety fairies in UK think they have done their job by applying ridiculously harsh and unrealistic conditions, thats why our ebikes are so restricted here.
Ok I kinda agree with you about speed limits on the bikes but I also think to unlock the faster and throttle you should at minimum have some forum of identifier on the bike even if this is some sort of free registration number and most importantly some sort of liability insurance so for when someone dose cause damaged to a person or property you are traceable and are covered
If you have a full car licence you can ride a motorbike upto 50cc without a CBT. The motorbike can travel upto 30mph. Does that mean you could have a 1000w electric bike? The law should be changed for those with a full driving licence.
Why does speed even matter? Mine is 1000w and can break the sound barrier if I push it hard enough. But I limit it to 15.5mph and ride everyday around town to run errands. I don't have a car and that's my only transport. The police approached me once in the park as I had my bike standing next to me. Guess what? One of them wanted to get an e-bike and was asking me about the pros and cons; I even let him have a go on it. Ride responsibly and you'll be fine, no-one will even bother looking at you.
Recently just moved back to UK. What a nanny state! Why are e-bikes restricted to 250w & 15 mph? E-Bikes are a real alternative to commutes and journeys normally done by car (look at the Neatherlands). Max speed limit in UK is 70 mph, so logically in the same mindset, restrict all cars to 70mph. Quite obvious that this present government is not interested in getting people on their bikes (completely contradicting Norman Tebbit's recommendation). Even though there is a climate crisis, it seems like they prefer the tax pounds from fossil fuels over encouraging people to travel in an environmentally friendly way.
Ebikes should be allowed 20mph and more power than 250w imho . However I do see a need to make sure riders know how to ride properly and know the rules of the road.
in the USA, ebikes are legal with these conditions: PAS (you must pedal for motor to engage) the top speed cannot exceed 20mph under power... if it goes over 20mph, it is considered a motorbike. At that point, it must be licensed, insured. But for the most part an ebike that only powers to 20mph (then the motor cutoff engages) is still considered a bicycle. This allows riders with handicap to be able to enjoy riding and are able to keep up on a group ride. Is your helmet the SmithOptics PodiumTT..?
I have a class 3 that legally goes to 28 mph before motor cutoff (at least in my state). Or goes 20 mph on the throttle. Pedal assist is not required unless I want to go faster than 20 mph. For what state are you reporting these laws?
@@MHdollrevievs Hi Larry.. I think 750W converts to 1.01972 Horsepower (hp). I'm not really familiar with the different classes.. Can you tell me what you know? May God Be with you and your family.
@@rdkuless yes 750 watts is ~1 hp. Class 1 is 15.5 mph pas only no throttle. Class 2 is 20 mph throttle allowed. Class 3 is 28 mph pas required to go above 20 Speeds are the motor cut off speed where it stops helping.
the bloody laws for ebikes in the UK are in my opinion bloody ridiculous.... I am thinking bout moving back to the UK to be with family, and would like to bring my ebike with me, but by looking at the stupid laws that they have, my bike would be illegal, it supports 2 750watt hub motors, but is street legal at 25 km/h in Australia...doesn't matter if the bike has 2 hub motors or not, it is locked in from the factory for riding legally on the road, the extra hub motor is only for the power to climb hills if and when needed.... In my opinion the UK laws for ebikes should be more in line with current laws, with regards to speed, if the maximum speed limit for the CBD of london is 20 m/h then the ebike laws should change to reflect this, an ebike in some cases, can go faster than a car and depends on how fit the person riding the bike is as well....I can ride a ebike and reach speeds in the factory locked position at 25kmh and reach 40 km/h...due to how fast I can pedal.... I agree that a petition should be made to bring ebike laws to the point where a 750 watt motor is legal on roads if it has pedals for the EPAC as mine does and the fact the speed should increase as well, to help with the flow of traffic...
One thing i find ridiculous is that speed pedelecs are not allowed on cycle paths…. I dont mind tax insurance etc. but not being allowed on cycle paths is stupid.
I don't understand the no throttle law, as it still will only go the max speed throttle or no throttle. sometimes I would rather not pedal and would love a throttle but I am not aloud in the UK
@Tia Sparks According to the UK laws it says that you can have a thumb throttle that is set to allow you to travel at 6 miles per hour while you walk along side your bike.
I am disabled so in the end got a Fiido D1 because it has a throttle.. still 250w still limited to 15.5mph. but illegal.. ??? I still think if we can register bigger motor ebike, like with cars and motorcycles, it would be good. Even if i have to get insurance, tax etc.. just give me the option. NOT JUST IT'S ILLEGAL.
There are a lot of more powerful kit bikes available. Do the police ever pull people over for having illegal bikes and what are the consequences? Can the bike be confiscated and destroyed? Points on driver's license huge fines? You could have legal stickers saying 250W and battery voltage and the copper could demand to ride the bike to see if goes faster than 15.5 mph (which is too slow).
I've been building my own ebikes using conversion kits for about 8 years now. I've worked at the same place for all that time and have commuted on ebikes over 250w (way way above) and never had a problem. Just don't ride like a tit and you'd never be stopped.
That law is annoying me af. I've been commuting by bike for at least 15 years now. As my job changed, I must now commute between different places within one day, sometimes up to 8 miles per ride. My average speed with my pedal bike is 18 mph (including uphills and stops at red lights). But by warm weather (or with warm clothes) I arrive at work soaked in sweat. So I'm thinking of buying an ebike. But I don't want to ride slower. 15 mph is sooooo boring. And if I have to pedal above 15 mph to reach higher speeds... what will be the point of owning an electric bike ? The effort will only be greater, with a heavier bike to push with leg power. Some will say : so, just buy a speedelec with insurance and registration. But again, what's the point of an ebike when you could have an electric motorcycle that goes faster and is even cheaper. And most of all, if I can't use bike lanes anymore, I will be forced to share the roads with those angry - bike killers - car drivers. The speed limit in my city in France is 30 km/h (18,6 mph). Every car is going way above 31 mph. Consider you're lucky if they don't yell insults at you while pushing your bike against the sideway. So yes, for safety reasons, as well as common sense, law should be different. But for now, I'm stuck with my problem because the law is made only to prevent lazy motherfuckers to go to fast, easily pushing a throttle.
i dont think 250w motor has enough power to get you up a steep bank without peddle assist were as a 500w or 750w will get you up a steep hill on throttle only.i think this country should follow the us and allow 500 or 750w motors.
@@JamesStanton Yeah…if you’re a bean pole fitty! Not a 17 stone oldster. What the 250w rule is saying is we don’t want unfit, untrendy people on bikes.
@@JamesStantonI'm new to this lark. As a catch up, I'm surprised this has dragged on for years. My two cents... UK already had 15 mph limit, EU came up with 25 kmh and 250w output. So UK raised it by 0.5mph UK gov wording 15.5 mph and 250 max output. That is ambiguous as it does not state or mention how it is achieved, wether through a single 250w motor or a restricted 350w/500w/750w Does a restricted 500w produce 250w when limited to 15.5 mph.....if a 250w motor is 15.5 mph, would think 500w watts restricted to 15.5 mph equates to 250w Police say as long as it's restricted to 15.5 they are ok with that. But recently different forces are saying a restricted 500w to 15.5 mph is not legal. A bike insurance company says the same Some forces won't reply. One officer said don't bother sending in foi, they won't know themselves.. As for throttle, EU said fine as long as they do a mixture of pedaling. They didn't say what ratio but UK came up with 3.7 mph which doesn't particulary help anyone with a condition who would find it useful even if it was 8 mph. Politicians forget the purpose of an e bike motor. It assists, it is not a driver. A petrol moped engine is a primary driver. A fuel moped could use pedals to start it up or occasionally assist but in practice, they use the throttle. When is 250w 250 watts and when a moped is a moped. Now they want to class 250w as mopeds but go back to the purpose of the motor, it assists. Or maybe the speedsters go and do something else, sell their e bikes and go back to pedal and chain mayhem. If that is the case, more than 75% UK ebikes are not legal and destined to go to the scrappy if they banned them all, unless they register them and would look a bit daft riding a bicycle with people wondering where the heck to put the L plates.
My recumbent trike can reach 45mph on one of my local hills, and even on the flat I'm usually well over 15mph. When in town, I ride at 15mph max to stick to the rules, but out of town you need to be fast on our windey, high hedged lanes....too many impatient car drivers who would happily send me into a hedge whilst trying to overtake. If other countries don't have a problem with higher wattages, then our rules are contemptible.
The speed limit should be set at 25mph for ALL bikes motor or not. I've seen road bike riders tearing up the road at 25 mph plus. And they are telling ebike riders sorry you are only allowed to go 25kph or 15.5 miles. Theres a double standard here AS USUAL.
@@fender1000100 a ebike bike motor should cut out at 15.5 miles a hour it dont mean you have you do 15.5 miles a hour anything over 15.5 miles a hour is leg power only you can go 40 miles a hour on a ebike but its leg power are gravity doing the work .mid drive motors are best lest drag from the motor
@@fender1000100 superfit guys with carbon roadbikes can tuck in and do 40mph as well. So according to you an ebikes which can be ridden without any license/registration should do 40mph as well. Laws are there to make sure the average Joe on an ebike can't go on any faster and an average bicycle. And not everyone on road bikes can rip thru 25mph. If people want to go faster, they should go for a proper electric motorcycle which requires license and registration. People think the rules are there to control us but just ask yourself, "do u have license to ride your motorcycle, car? " Do you say to the police that I'll ride my motorcycle at 15mph on bike lanes without license?
Been looking at getting an e-bike so Goggle served me this video of yours. Curious to know what the helmet it you’re wearing - as far as bike helmets go, that one actually looks like it would protect you properly, plus as a #bonus it has a massive pair of built in sunglasses. Win Win.
I agree with you 100%. I have had many ebikes now and started in 2017, when my local council let me borrow one for a month. I'm 62 years old and now have a full suspension EMTB. I ride it on the shared access pavements in my city and have done 3,200 miles in 2 years. When I ride on the shared pavements, I give way to pedestrians and behave responsibly. I also ride a huge amount of off road. Both my E-bikes are de restricted and I have never been stopped by the police or created an issue. However, I do see lots of hooligans riding Surons, with no regard for anyone else. 20 mph legal would be my sweet spot.
Nice debate, I have just bought a (fiido L3) and it's brilliant!! 350w motor, throttle cruise control, and a huge battery that does miles on flat journeys, chunky seat for long rides I did 50 miles uphill accent countryside in north wales, so on the flat would be way more. The best thing is you can unlock the throttle to 20mph and the bike does not look sus, also folds up.
I agree that these throttle e-bikes are the future of transportation, but they are NOT bicycles. I am 63 years old and commute 39km every day with a pedal assist, torque sensor e-bike, and these throttled machines that don’t require any true pedaling (only ghost pedaling) are downright dangerous when using bike lanes (often shared with pedestrians) as they are simply too fast. If they share the road with cars and motorcycles, I have no problem with them at all.
@@edteach3r it really depends on who's driving the hybrid bicycle, push bikes can also be dangerous if you have no common sense of others around when driving it. As a cyclist all my life I can't see the difference between me averaging 18mph on my canyon sl8 road (push bike) and 18mph on my fiido ebike (which is the max limit) on a 40mile ride. Don't get me wrong I agree with you regarding clowns driving these crazy 30+mph ebike on pavements etc with no common sense. Send them to jail
The restrictions weren't pulled out of the air, research was done into accidents in places they're unregulated. Inexperienced riders tend to have lots of accidents using throttle control, it was one of the primary reasons compulsory basic training was introduced for mopeds. Leaving aside the very real safety aspect though, it's also to encourage "active transport", even just spinning the pedals with no real effort turns out to be good exercise & is a deliberate strategy to help reduce obesity & sedentary lifestyles. 20mph wasn't chosen, & almost certainly never will be as it's way too fast to turn loose the untrained & inexperienced on shared use paths mixed with pedestrians, children, pets, baby buggies etc.
If you allow it to have a throttle and go at 20mph without peddling then you have a motorbike, not an e-assisted bike. Peddle harder, get fit, and use the electric assistance so you can ride further and not hinder the NHS later because of being unfit Lol. I used to cycle to work and covered 10k miles a year. Also, hacks could make the bike go faster than a bike hacked from the 15mph limit. Change it to 20mph and people will moan why not 25mph or 30mph, just pedal and get fit ;)
Until recently I hadn't rode a bike in over 15 years, I can pedal to 30 mph with my own little leggies on a very slight downhill and that's on a MTB, imagine someone fit on a racer they would piss on my 30. I think a driving licence holder should be allowed more power when you think that a 16 year old can do a CBT and be flying around on a moped with the potential to cause much more damage than me on a electrified MTB.
Not a lot of people can pedal a bike at 30mph unless going down a hill. You can't ride downhill everywhere you go. On the flats, 30 is like the max speed of somebody who is in perfect shape, perfect bike, perfect everything. Average Joe can barely hit 20mph on any consistent basis, most people will max out in the 15 range.
I reckon the assistance limit is just fine where it is, if you want to go faster, pedal harder. As for allowing throttles, why not just remove the pedals and call it a motorcycle at that point? There's this weird dichotomy of people who want to ride a "bicycle" but really want that bicycle to actually be a moped. There's already a class of vehicles that cater to your desires, but it requires a CBT/VED/Insurance and that's too much bother apparently...
damn u guys can only max it at 15.5 mph? here in denmark were allowed 28 mph also limited to 250w no need to register, tax or insure it either also allowed on bike path. Come to Copenhagen the extra mph is amazing! i'm getting the Fiido M1 250w version when i'm back from summer holiday can't wait i'm so excited!!
I only agree with your points if there-bike is subject to the same Road conditions as for small motorised bikes formerly mopeds. I’m all for en-bikes but there is a significant danger in the more powerful an fast versions setting back the cause. Whats wrong with making a clearer distinction between those that are genuinely peddle assist and those that are let’s face it -really the modern equivalent of a moped?
It's pretty bad the restrictions on ebikes when this would be a massive help in and around towns and city's you shouldn't get penalised when these are much more economical than using even an electric car as allot less footprint. I was looking into these but like you said I have to go down 40mph roads before I hit the town so not sure if its too risky especially with no real footpaths or cycle lanes to ride on 😩
Throttle yes, increase speed to 20mph, yes. I don’t think a license or registration should be required but I think it would be good to have some sort of equivalent to a CBT to go for a 20 vs 15.5mph bike. After all, you can drive a 255cc motorbike on a provisional without passing your test which goes much faster and is heavier. I believe the pedals are from legacy law but throttles used to be legal without the need to pedal. I think it’s crazy that we’re all being pushed to buy full size EVs when small electric vehicles can be a much better option.
had an episode when i was riding just before i converted my normal bike to an ebike. i had a woman telling me that my bike was illegal because it was an ebike. i explained to her that it is a normal bike but she wouldn't have it.... apparently i made it up a steep incline way too easy ;)
it says 250 watt output. it does not say it has to be 250 watt motor, just 250 watt out put, and cuts off at 15.5 mph, and no throttle. there is no regulation on battery volts.
Ok two things the only reason why we're allowed electric bicycles in uk is because the it was an EU directive and UK had to adopt at the time . This is why it's 25kph and 250w , you are allowed a throttle on ebikes made up to 2017 I think but after that throttle can only help to 3mph
Where do you draw the line between an E-bike and it becoming an electric motorbike? There's got to some point in terms of speed, power and controls (pedal v throttle) where it's classed as a vehicle that requires a licence and insurance to use. Maybe there needs to be some intermediate category?
Wonder if the motor is more powerful than 250w but limited by electronics to 250w, it would make things easier for manufacturers who supply to different countries 🤔
Depends on your weight and where you live. I live in a hilly area and I weigh 70Kg. 250w is plenty to climb the steepest hill though speed decreases dramatically. Like doing 10-12kph on a 25-30% incline seems pretty capable to me. I would like more than 28.9 kph on flats though. Lastly I am more concerned about the mechanical disc brakes rapid wear from all those down hills.
Great video - I agree that E-Bikes are a fantastic way to encourage more low/no carbon transport. When it comes to throttles and more power - then you are effectively describing a moped/motorbike - it just has electric not petrol propulsion - so should electric cars not require a license, tax, insurance etc? its a minefield frankly and as you point out - legislation needs to keep up, and make room for more e-bikes. this video is 2 years old the number of electric 'motorbikes' that are throttle controlled and do 30-40 mph+ on london streets is very high now.
The throttle law is an absolute myth! You can have a twist and go throttle up to 15.5 mph if the e bike is type approved, there are models being sold right now which have been type approved i with a twist and go throttle one of them is called “whisper e bikes” and the other is called “”pedibal” .Both can legally use throttle on its own up without pedalling up to 15.5 mph
I don't own an e bike but I agree that the assist speed should be upped to 20 mph. This is the main reason why I don't use one. I'm pretty out of shape but can ride around 15/16 mph average. I would like an e bike as I would probably do my 10 mile commute more often by bike if I had one. I used to do this regularly but don't have the extra time needed these days. 20 mph assist would maybe make this possible again and shave just enough time back off my journey. Just as a matter of interest how comfortable are those bikes over say 10 miles or so?
Spot on video, and I hope they decided to make things safer by improving the speed a bit. A law requiring you to be an obstacle is not wise. In the US, the top speed of the most common e-bikes is 20mph, and we still get passed all the time by pedal bikes. I have watched pedal bike riders terrorize pedestrians and children, passing them at 30mph without warning. And yet, I can be a polite rider ringing my quaint bell and telling people I'm passing them as I carefully go by at 10mph or less, and *I* get told I don't belong? I also agree with you about the throttle. I take a ten year old lass to and from the school bus every day, and it's not always convenient to pedal when carrying a passenger and book bags, especially in the rain. I also carried an adult passenger for three miles when his PEV battery failed, and am grateful for the throttle! The throttle makes an e-bike zero mph faster.
Not a lot of people can pedal a bike at 30mph, so you are full of S. That's like the max speed of somebody who is in perfect shape, perfect bike, perfect everything. Going downhill they can reach those speeds, but in flat areas, your average Joe can barely hit 20mph on any consistent basis, most people will max out in the 15 range.
@@marcuslinton310 agreed. People are just stupid. According to them, since some people can even tuck in and do 40mph on their carbon roadbikes, ebikes without riding license and registration should do 40mph as well. They don't understand the reason why ebikes are limited in power and speed.
@@rahuldasmajumder5121 Why do we need the government to tell us how many watts a bicycle can have? You call people stupid but you are ignorant of the way electric motors work if you think the 250 watts they write on the motor means it puts out 250 watts. I'm trying to get your logic, 20 is ok but any faster and we need to pay the government? 500 lbs cargo bikes going 20 are fine but light ebikes going 30 is bad? Recumbant trikes can go much faster than a bike with the same power input should we limit them the same? Don't you think maybe we need to create new classes of vehicles that aren't all or nothing legally. Something not regulated to death as if it's a 2 ton SUV or truck capable of 80 mph. The all or nothing approach just rewards being stupid and ruining it for everyone in the end instead of embracing a lite class capable of say 45 mph max at less than the cost of a fully capable car. Use laws to promote inovation instead of squashing it.
@@63phillip I was walking along a few weeks ago and didn't notice the kerb drop, my foot slammed down on the tarmac and I had that sinking feeling for a second. Flat earth debunked.
750 watt for me, I always stop for horses on trails and slow down for walkers. Should a set of rules be imposed by the corrupt, who break any laws themselves !!!!.
I’m buying a Carrera fury and getting someone to convert it with a throttle etc… tbh can’t afford the underground anymore and work 2 jobs 7 days a week.. can’t be arsed to cycle so much… hoping it works out… I’m not brave and will not push the limits. Just want to get from A to B safely and soundly
My ADO A20 is 350w And can go 21mph unlocked. I am not buying any sticker to hide that ever. It's an unenforceable law. That's what you all have to know from the get go. Otherwise they will have to arrest and ban THOUSANDS of uber eats, deliveroo and just eat delivery riders. Most have souped up 500w PLUS bikes. That can do 20mph PLUS. There should be ONE universal law for all riders. And that's 25mph. Targeting one group of riders simply because their bikes have motors on them is pointless. And again unenforceable.
I wrote to my MP who has raised a written question with the minister of Transport. I would like to ride my Ebike but currently due to an accident I cant peddle so that means using a twist and go would be illegal. Lots of people with disabilities could really benefit from an Ebike
If you knows the law then he will reply to you saying that electric bikes with twist and go throttles are legal to use in the same way and normal pedal bike can be used provided it is type approved and meets all the eapc rules
Totally agree with everything you said - The UK law on ebikes is so outdated! The issue is not ebikes and most riders, it's that the police are not policing the roads and stopping the "lunatics" from doing stupid things - The lack of proper policing is "The Elephant in the Room" It's exacly the same issue with electric scooters and until they sort out the policing issues you will always have idiots riding on the pavement and giving us all a bad name. Keep up the good work Buddy!
Surely the fact that you have to actually pedal the thing in order to propel it forward is the BIG give away !!! It's still a pedal bike (in your case), the motor size is a different argument altogether !!!
So if by law the motor has to cut out at 15.5mph, what if the rider(not me anymore) can pedal up to say 35mph after the motor has cut off , would this now be legal?? and if so how would anyone know your motor had cut off??. if stopped could you not just say you pedalled the extra 20 mph on top of the motors power.
It’s how manufactures should sell consumers the bike (with a motor cut off at 15.5mph) and looking at the bikes details would show this. It’s completely legal to ride faster with pedal power (if you can). I often ride around 17-18 mph with a little pedal power and obviously much quicker on downhill 😉
Not a lot of people can pedal a normal high end race bike at 30mph and especially not heavier E-Bike unless they are going downhill and you can't ride downhill everywhere you go. So, no, pedaling to 35mph isn't going to happen except downhills.
The power limit is a bit meaningless - first its unclear if it applies to electrical input or mechanical output. Secondly its widely interpreted as a continuous power limit, which means that manufacturers feel free to exceed it for short term power boosts typical of an urban cycle ride. Double the limit is not unknown. Otherwise, agree with the comments below that 20 mph would be a more usable speed limit. I was hoping that this would be the one Brexit freedom to emerge, but no political will to do that it appears.
Ebike should be allowed to have a top speed of 30mph. Normal bikes can go faster than 30mph. 20mph is to slow, I have found that I always need a little bit more power. 30mph EBikes are perfect.
Yeah I think it needs to change, although 250w mostly feels like enough - especially in the centre of town. It’s when I get out of the city and on the open road where the speed limit is 40mph+ it’s more of an issue. Do you have an ebike?
Welcome to the wonderfull state called "European Union"... Anything can be hacked and tuned... tuning has always existed and will exist as long as the human race is alive... EU Class 1 - 45Km/h max 1000W EU Class 2 - 25Km/h max 250W
so you need to make the motor legally a "detachable powered exoskeleton stored on the bike but separate from it but stabilized near the bike" to ride faster?
I wasn’t aware that having a throttle on a 250watt Ebike is illegal?! Yes 20 miles an hour should be made legal, I think some peoples concerns in government is that Ebike riders can’t be made accountable like for example they’r usually not registered, don’t have a number plate for anpr cameras to pick up so therefore restrictions are kept in place.
Current e-bike laws are spot on, people who want to increase e-bike speed limits to 20 mph will never be satisfied and always want more. E-bikes sold are setup and geared for 15.5 mph so any modifications would be extra costs. Lets not forget the 15.5 mph already have a -/+ 2mph tolerance .
The trouble is there must be a roughly equal number of lunatics on ebikes or regular cycles as there are lunatics on four petrol or diesel fueled vehicles. People think they own the road no matter what mode of transport they are on these days.
A throttle that works up to 10 km/h is not a bad idea, but not necesarry up to 25 km/h. Actually, my e-bike has walk assist up to 5 km/h already. That is enough to get things going already
Limitations as in Australia are outmoded and ridiculous! In America, they are quite used to motors of 6ooo watts which can keep up with the flow of traffic and are far more sensible.
You are confused about the law here. 750 watt and 28 mph if you help pedal. Anything more is a motorcycle and has to meet the requirements of that class.
I ride an ebike, I guess people get suspicious of urs cos it don’t resemble a typical bike that people have come used to , the headlight makes it look more of a motorbike heritage cheers shaneweightman
But if you cant have a passenger on a Moped unless you hold a full car Licience why do think it's legal to give a front or rear seater to one when no licience or tax is required? or to put it simple carrying 2 on a push bike is a bit of dodgy or illegal thing to do?
I've got a Riff Raff Black Shadow, it says limited to 250w but this can be switched too 1000w instantly; guess what I have it set at? Fact is the police just don't have the time or resources to start checking bikes and outputs. The only way they are even going bother with anyone is if that person acts like an idiot; lets face we so many people in cars acting like idiots that the police will be hard pressed to do anything about Ebikes. The one thing that might bring a change in the law, is if the idiots start riding pavements at speed.
I hear you and you are right. That was exactly my point; there are idiots in cars on bikes and pedestrian idiots too - so this is no reason not to increase the speed limit of ebikes. The majority of ebike riders I know (or have seen) are respectful of road users (and pedestrians) and ride responsibly.Ultimately though, I'd rather legally be riding at 25-30mph and not have to tamper with my electronics to go faster - lets hope we see some change!
@@JamesStanton There's a very simple reason not to increase the speed of EAPCs, which is that they become mopeds or motorcycles. If you want to go faster get a license etc. The reasons people cite for "needing" to go faster are the same reasons that pedal cyclists use to ask for better infrastructure and policing - it's generally inconsiderate/incompetent drivers and poor road conditions that cause problems; faster e-bikes won't solve either of those, and if you're not part of the solution ...
@@eternaloptimist2840 I respectfully disagree. I’m suggesting an increase of just 5-10kmph. Being able to have a little more speed to keep up with traffic on larger roads would deter drivers (incompetent and impatient ones) from dangerously overtaking and would in turn keep the traffic moving. I do however think there is an argument for ebikes with this additional speed to have either a license (ebike proficiency test!?) of some sort and/or some kind of insurance/public liability.
@@JamesStanton But you'd want them to be allowed to go where only pedal cycles are allowed, at motor vehicle speeds. Good luck on those shared use footpaths.
@@eternaloptimist2840 This is where common sense must prevail. The same argument can be applied to super cars and motorcycles no? We all know most cars and motorbikes can do way over 100mph but they still permit them in 20mph speed limit zones. Or indeed road bikes going flat out through a park/shared footpath. Again, another reason to hold some kind of test or even an online test for ebikers. Interesting discussion and one I believe should be fleshed out - ebikes are the future!
Great video James… I’m very close to buying a Bafang 620 ultra mid drive full suspension fat bike for Green lanes and some off reading… I take it now watching for video it would not be legal in the uk
It's not legal, but police wont bother most likely as long as you A pedal B dont go silly fast (20mph is generally ok) C don't get into an accident. I have the Frey ex which uses bafang 620 and it's great, I wouldn't bother with fat tyres , the 2.8 tyres are plenty good enough.
I converted my Giant commuter cycle and fitted it with a with a 500w rear wheel motor and a 36v battery. The controller limits the assist to 15.5mph but i can change some params in the controller and get assist to a higher speed than that - for off-roading (or just when i need to carry more weight and need the extra power help up hills etc). I'm 61 and not a speed nutter. I'm interested to know what you think about its legality - since based on the motor capability label the UK Police could assume its illegal for use on the road - even though the assist is controller-limited . . .
Legally speaking, the fact that it’s 500w may be an issue. What does the label say exactly? In my experience, I’ve not once been stopped by any law enforcement, and I’ve been riding an ebike for 3 years in and around London (on an ebike that looks like a moped/motorbike). Honestly, I think you’ll be just fine as long as you’re not irresponsible or riding on a pavement. But the bigger point here is that, as you rightly say, a bit more speed/power for steep hills or for carrying a heavier load (I would add for faster country roads too) would in fact make the ride safer for you and would keep the traffic moving. Good luck and thanks for the comment!
lot's of people have just recently lost there E bikes to the police in the UK because of this very reason. watch out in big towns and cities . It's not about having a limiter.
It's not legal, the fact that it's limited by software (or a switch somewhere) is irrelevant as you can just switch off the limit. The law specifies that the motor must have a maximum sustained power of 250W, so it can probably handle 500W peak for shorter periods. But you don't actually need peak power to get up hills, it's torque that counts in that situation and that's best provided by a mid drive with appropriate gearing, or to a lesser extent a geared hub motor. Direct-drive hub motors don't provide high torque at low speeds; 250W direct drive will perform poorly on hills, but it's what you'll find on the cheapest e-bikes.
@@eternaloptimist2840 larger motors and limiters are perfectly legal. Rad Power Bikes sells into the EU/UK, US and Canada. The same model in all markets has the same motor. The only difference is the controller and display.
I'm sure the half brain government could make any electric transport acceptable. Maybe require insurance or registration. The UK requirement is type approval not CE
Thats a good perspective. Your bike is trying to look like a motorbike, I think its daft to do that, same with these Surons etc that clearly are an electric motorbike. I was pulled over on my fat tyre ebike and given a leaflet and warning because my motor at 500w was 'illegal' and so was my throttle because " that makes it a motor vehicle, so you need insurance which you can't get" Its not my fault that private industry does not provide me with the insurance facility. 250w is pathetic, mine is a 500w rear hub and I have to pedal like a bugger to get up steep hills. I saw a guy with a massive box on his cargo bike and he told me his bike is legal, he is a delivery guy. Anyway I looked up the motor and it says its 250w but has a 'peak power' facility of 1250w !!!!! So how the F is that legal? So this is how the manufacturers are providing the required power to get a load up a hill while pretending to follow the antiquated UK laws. If the government makes me wear a helmet and get tax and insurance I am just going to buy a legal but noisy 2 stroke 125 motocroser and scream around town making it smell of lovely 2 stroke exhaust like I did when I was 17
All motors at "250w" actually peak at 500w+. And yeah some of the high end bafang and Bosch motors will draw over 1000w when it comes to hill climbing. My 250w bike on the display says it's pulling 550w when faced with any sort of challenge which I find hilarious.
@@JudeTheRUclipsPoopersubscribe Yes its a farce, car drivers are allowed to have an engine that can go illegally fast over 70mph but are given a pass on that, when cycling along a flat road our motors are not illegal, they are only illegal going up a hill, which does no harm to anyone. I will claim I not not breaking the law under Common Law - there is no loss or injury to another person or property by going up hill using more than 250w, I am sure a Jury is going to realise the law is an Ass
I entirely agree with your 20mph and throttle suggestions, but in addition, the 250W motor limit needs to be removed, so that the bike can cope with steeper hills and/or heavier loads.
@@siriosstar4789 torque on any 250w motor is too low.
Agreed! but they aint gonna do it are they? I don't see what the size of the motor matters If its speed is restricted. 20 mph and 500watts would be a reasonable compromise. Any way I have NEVER been pulled over so I am considering getting a more powerful motor so as to tackle all the steep hills here in Bristol.
@@iamrocketray I have a 1000w big cat and ride it everywhere in the UK.
@@siriosstar4789 That's because these 250w rated mid drive bikes on sale in the shops are nominally rated for 250, They actually peak much higher! They get past the laws by being classed as providing a continuous 250w, But when you start taxing them, Like riding up inclines, They push a lot more to give you that torque. Don't think for a second that 80/90/120 NM of torque is being produced from 250watts of output lol
@@danimayb: Was thinking about that - there are some battery electric motorbikes which use the same trick (if I remember correctly, there's one which has a continuous power rating of about 11kW to keep it in the A1 licence category, but its peak is something like 19-ish kW).
Why is the speed limit so low when a road bike can easily do 30mph with no motor
It’s only the *assisted* speed which is limited. There are very few restrictions, but an EAPC is legally defined as having a max assisted speed of 15mph. You can pedal faster, but not allowed to have assistance over that.
If you can pedal fast enough you can go 70 mph BUT and its a big BUT, The motor has to cut out at 15.5 mph/25 Kph. So you are only allowed assistance from the motor until you hit 15.5 mph at which point it cuts out and you are on your own again. Its a bloody nuisance because(being a senior) that 15.5mph is just below my normal travelling speed so great until I hit 15.5mph and i find it keeps cutting in and out, go over 15.5 motor cuts, i cant maintain the speed without the motor so it drops below the 15.5 and cuts in again ad infinitum.
@@iamrocketray If you pedal fast enough to go 70mph you might find yourself being done anyway on the "Pedalling frantically" charge.
@@1over137 I believe it's actually called "riding furiously" and it dates back to 1835 I think other than that there are no speed restrictions of cycles.
@Adriab King
That's a good point. I was going 22mph on my Fiido D4S a few months ago. And two road bike riders whizzed past me. Theres either a speed limit on ALL BIKES or not at all. Its DOUBLE STANDARDS all day long. And inconsistency does not stand up in this life.
You either have a speed law for all wheeled vehicles or not at all. The BEAUTY of having a hybrid bike like a D4S. which has a 250w motor and unlocked can go about 22mph on it's own power.
BUT also has 6 regular gears that can also propel me at least 22mph. Is it would be impossible for it to be proven I was going that fast by using the motor as I always ghost pedal even on pure throttle. Whereas someone on a PURE ELECTRIC MOPED, SCOOTER, MOTORBIKE. Literally hasnt got a leg to stand on. Their speed could only be generated by the motor.
That's why a geared hybrid ebike is the SMART choice to get around these ridiculous speed laws.
I left the UK 15 years ago. I don't recognize my country anymore. Massive nanny state, but what's worse is how many of my old friends have changed too and have become compliant sheep. Anyway here in Thailand I have a 3kW and 1.5 kW ebike :)
Checked out some of your vids. Nice riding and views!!! 🙌 love to see ebikers from around the globe ❤️⚡️
Like you comment i left uk to mate country is crap 💩 I live in Australia now ❤️🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
@@christheobald6183 how's that working out now 🤔
Dude! Spot on. I find certain places are much less sheepish than others... I live in Chester where everyone has turned into a hive mind of high-horsed'ness! Me and the missus won't even go anywhere local anymore. If we go to walk the dog, or go out for dinner... We head towards the Wirral and everybody is infinitely more friendly and they actually appear to think for themselves.
@@christheobald6183 With regards to Electric bikes I believe Australia is worse than the UK, hard to believe but they still use the old UK laws of 15 mph which is 0.5 mph slower than the UK and they also still have a 200 watts limit which is a massive 50watts lower than the EU law but the exact same as the UK law limit.
I think in the UK at least in London anyway we mix and match the laws, UK law for twist and go, EU law for power, UK law for anything we can get away with and EU law for that which we can't.
But Australian law on Ebikes is pretty dismal unless it has changed at all recently.
In the USA, most ebike riders mistakenly think that their renter's or homeowner's insurance will cover damage to the ebike and personal injury... That is only true with regular bicycles.. once a motor is installed, nothing is covered by renter's/homeowner's insurance..
I purchased Ebike coverage thru Velosurance (subsidiary of Markel insurance) I have $10k coverage for my eTrike and $40k liability insurance to cover others if i cause the collision.
My regular health insurance covers me. (as long as collision is not my fault) That is why i always stream my rides to the Cloud.. if i'm in a collision, i now have proof to show who is at fault.. Even if the camera is damaged, it is safely stored in the cloud. My GoPro7 saved me over $60k in personal injury, ER visits, therapy and replacement of eTrike.. A driver ran a red light and broadsided me. If i didn't have footage of the green light i was on and the car colliding with me, I would have been out $60k... you are very smart to record.. if you ever have a collision. immediately remove the MicroSD card and place it in a safe place.. you must have the original SD card to use for evidence in a court of law... The courts will not accept a downloaded version or a youtube video version because those could have been edited. Must be the original SD card.
That is interesting about needing the original SD card.
Makes sense though - given the remarkable fake videos often seen now on media.
There's a couple of issues here, the first is a cyclist doesn't need to have insurance, they don't need to have passed a theory or practical exam. There is a reason why motorcyclists have to do a CBT, pass a theory and practical exam. The answer to this problem is simple, if you own a full car or motorbike license then you should be permitted to go above 250W, if you do not have these, then you should be capped at 250W.
That’s a very good point. I’d even go as far as to say take a cycling proficiency style test/course and then the cap can come off as riding a bike and driving a car are very different experiences. Thanks for stopping by 🙌
Yeah…agreed. Point being…if you passed a road license test…bike or car…it proves you know your Roadcraft. That should uncap them and stop 14 YO getting the faster bikes.
I would have thought a full driving license already entitles you to ride an e bike with a motor bigger than 250w as it allows you to ride a scooter up to 50cc ? is that not the case.
@@JamesStanton by my calculations a 50cc moped can easily have 8hp so you would be well under that even with a 1000 watt motor on an ebike.
@@paulrae4719 It's about the registration. Where I am I can build a bike any power I want but legally if it's more than 750 watts then I have to get it inspected by the state police to get it registered as a motorcycle then regular speed and traffic laws apply incuding needing a motorcycle license and insurance.
If it can be propelled by pedals, is 750 watts or less and has class restrictions on speed (20 mph on throttle 28 with pedal assist) then all that's needed is to be over 16 years old.
yep . this 20 miles an hour and a throttle is worth to start a petition.
Being overtaken on narrow streets is really dangerous and slowing the traffic is bad for the environment.
yes, the overtaking by vehicles has been the most dangerous time for me as drivers pull in sharply to avoid a head on with oncoming in the opposite lane.
Without a throttle how are we supposed to do a hill start? ebikes are much heavier as it is, and if you have things in paniers or whatever then its impossible
@@utubeape I got that all the damn time on my 250w bike. Doesn't happen on my 1000w haha
Arguing that it's a replacement for a car then leans into a requirement for licence/tax/registration/insurance, though.
A nice clear video. They are a great way of getting about, I got rid of my car a year ago and do all of my travelling by ebike. The downside to me isn’t speed but torque as I live in a very hilly area (Cumbria). If there is a assist speed limit (and yes I'd agree 20 makes more sense) I don’t really see why there needs to be a power limit and would remove that to open them up to more people. I also think the power increase would encourage more cargo bikes. I’m really pleased that I made the switch. It has saved me money, got me fitter and generally made me happier. eScooters are great too and I’m in one of the trial areas and use them for one way trips to the station but I find the bike is more versatile for carrything things and I often use a trailer with it.
So; if you want to go faster then 15.5 mph turn off the power and use it as an ordinary bike and go as fast as you’re able to pedal😉
: since January 1, 2016, the only throttles legal within the EAPC legislation are those that assist the rider without pedalling up to a maximum speed of 6 km/h (3.7 mph) - i.e. starting or walking assistance only. If the rider is rolling - but not pedalling - faster than 6km/h, the throttle must cut off. If the cyclist is pedalling at the same time, then the throttle can still assist up to 15.5mph (25kph).
Namely to ride an ebike without driving licence and insurance it must conform to Pedelec law. My recommendation is for your video to make sure this fact is very clear.
Brilliant information, keep er lit.
I got myself an e-bike just over a year ago and it’s the best fun I’ve had in ages. The reason I got an e-bike is that I had a heart attack, it gets me off my ass , and no it’s not cheating cause you still have to put effort in to get to wherever you’re going. Keep up the good work 😃🙌💥
Thank you Matthew. Appreciate the comment. And awesome that you are an ebiker and that it’s getting you out and about. Love to hear these kind of stories. Best wishes to you!
It is definitely cheating I had been riding mountain bikes for 20+ years and ebikes are not even close to being as hard to ride as a normal bike. But it is fun as heck and requires some but only a fraction of the energy as a non motorized bike.
@@GreenSlug420
Oh do shut up. travelling by car, travelling by bus or taxi, travelling on a train, all cheating right!!!
@@GreenSlug420
OMG, you've realised that an ebike is nowhere near as hard to ride as a normal bike, duh,..that's the whole point of an ebike. Not everybody wants to end up feeling knackered and sweaty at the end of a journey.
@@GreenSlug420 If I was 20 I might agree with you, but I'm nearly 73 and I'm surrounded by hills, I'm just not capable of getting up them without some sort of power. Anyway getting people out of cars sometimes has got to be a good thing!
Ive had an ebike for the past 7 years and totally rate them 👍 but as you say 15.5 is way too slow 👎 an acceptable speed would be 20mph at least we could keep up with slow traffic and not be a hindrance to car drivers who hate us!🤣🤣🤣 there are ways to increase speed illegally but if caught you’re in for the high jump, plus it drains the battery too quick. I’m retired so I mainly go out to enjoy the day and take my time, but it would be good to go a bit quicker say 18-20mph would be better and safer 👌👍 thanks for putting this up to the masses👌
I have a label stating 250w/36v/15.5mph stuck on my 1000w motor
You sly bastard lol. Carefull around the feds though. They actually clock you wizzing off away at 35-40mph in their car, and i doubt the 250w sticker will help much.
@@Kumari_44 To be honest, I'm not that keen on going over 20mph, the main advantage is larger motor/larger battery = more range. I get 32-50 miles depending on the assist level, most 250w bikes get 15-20 miles.
Same, those ebay stickers are plastered all over my bike
"You're wrong" best British passive aggressive comment ever 🤣
🤣🤣 I know right!?
He's a much kinder person than I would have been.
Most of us have been around long enough to know what kind of judgemental person he is before he even opened his mouth. You could have shown him the law on your phone and he would have just dismissed you - probably calling you many obscenities in the process.
Once i'd have established he wasn't willing to listen i'd have told him to f-off and mind his own business, but that's just me.
Because the health and safety fairies in UK think they have done their job by applying ridiculously harsh and unrealistic conditions, thats why our ebikes are so restricted here.
@tophatanimation8748that's why my current bike does nearly 50mph. Cyc gen 3 pro mid drive is the most crazy motor I've ever used.
Ok I kinda agree with you about speed limits on the bikes but I also think to unlock the faster and throttle you should at minimum have some forum of identifier on the bike even if this is some sort of free registration number and most importantly some sort of liability insurance so for when someone dose cause damaged to a person or property you are traceable and are covered
If you have a full car licence you can ride a motorbike upto 50cc without a CBT. The motorbike can travel upto 30mph. Does that mean you could have a 1000w electric bike? The law should be changed for those with a full driving licence.
Why does speed even matter? Mine is 1000w and can break the sound barrier if I push it hard enough. But I limit it to 15.5mph and ride everyday around town to run errands. I don't have a car and that's my only transport. The police approached me once in the park as I had my bike standing next to me. Guess what? One of them wanted to get an e-bike and was asking me about the pros and cons; I even let him have a go on it. Ride responsibly and you'll be fine, no-one will even bother looking at you.
Recently just moved back to UK. What a nanny state! Why are e-bikes restricted to 250w & 15 mph? E-Bikes are a real alternative to commutes and journeys normally done by car (look at the Neatherlands). Max speed limit in UK is 70 mph, so logically in the same mindset, restrict all cars to 70mph. Quite obvious that this present government is not interested in getting people on their bikes (completely contradicting Norman Tebbit's recommendation). Even though there is a climate crisis, it seems like they prefer the tax pounds from fossil fuels over encouraging people to travel in an environmentally friendly way.
Ebikes should be allowed 20mph and more power than 250w imho .
However I do see a need to make sure riders know how to ride properly and know the rules of the road.
Had no idea the the Tower bridge was so long ....you can actually see the curve of the earth!!
😂 camera trickery 🎥🪄
I thought the earth was too big to see the curve?? Hmm
genuinely then, whats stopping you from buying the 750 and putting the 250 sticker over it?
in the USA, ebikes are legal with these conditions: PAS (you must pedal for motor to engage) the top speed cannot exceed 20mph under power... if it goes over 20mph, it is considered a motorbike. At that point, it must be licensed, insured.
But for the most part an ebike that only powers to 20mph (then the motor cutoff engages) is still considered a bicycle. This allows riders with handicap to be able to enjoy riding and are able to keep up on a group ride. Is your helmet the SmithOptics PodiumTT..?
I have a class 3 that legally goes to 28 mph before motor cutoff (at least in my state). Or goes 20 mph on the throttle.
Pedal assist is not required unless I want to go faster than 20 mph.
For what state are you reporting these laws?
USA allows 750w(Half a horse power) Class 1- 2- 3 Canada is 500w and only class 1-2
@@MHdollrevievs Hi Larry..
I think 750W converts to 1.01972 Horsepower (hp).
I'm not really familiar with the different classes.. Can you tell me what you know?
May God Be with you and your family.
@@rdkuless yes 750 watts is ~1 hp.
Class 1 is 15.5 mph pas only no throttle.
Class 2 is 20 mph throttle allowed.
Class 3 is 28 mph pas required to go above 20
Speeds are the motor cut off speed where it stops helping.
Really? I thought you guys were allowed to have 500w ebikes over there. Those motors things easily go over 20mph
the bloody laws for ebikes in the UK are in my opinion bloody ridiculous....
I am thinking bout moving back to the UK to be with family, and would like to bring my ebike with me, but by looking at the stupid laws that they have, my bike would be illegal, it supports 2 750watt hub motors, but is street legal at 25 km/h in Australia...doesn't matter if the bike has 2 hub motors or not, it is locked in from the factory for riding legally on the road, the extra hub motor is only for the power to climb hills if and when needed....
In my opinion the UK laws for ebikes should be more in line with current laws, with regards to speed, if the maximum speed limit for the CBD of london is 20 m/h then the ebike laws should change to reflect this, an ebike in some cases, can go faster than a car and depends on how fit the person riding the bike is as well....I can ride a ebike and reach speeds in the factory locked position at 25kmh and reach 40 km/h...due to how fast I can pedal....
I agree that a petition should be made to bring ebike laws to the point where a 750 watt motor is legal on roads if it has pedals for the EPAC as mine does and the fact the speed should increase as well, to help with the flow of traffic...
One thing i find ridiculous is that speed pedelecs are not allowed on cycle paths…. I dont mind tax insurance etc. but not being allowed on cycle paths is stupid.
where did ya get the helmet from mate?
I don't understand the no throttle law, as it still will only go the max speed throttle or no throttle. sometimes I would rather not pedal and would love a throttle but I am not aloud in the UK
@Tia Sparks According to the UK laws it says that you can have a thumb throttle that is set to allow you to travel at 6 miles per hour while you walk along side your bike.
I am disabled so in the end got a Fiido D1 because it has a throttle.. still 250w still limited to 15.5mph. but illegal.. ???
I still think if we can register bigger motor ebike, like with cars and motorcycles, it would be good. Even if i have to get insurance, tax etc.. just give me the option. NOT JUST IT'S ILLEGAL.
There are a lot of more powerful kit bikes available. Do the police ever pull people over for having illegal bikes and what are the consequences? Can the bike be confiscated and destroyed? Points on driver's license huge fines? You could have legal stickers saying 250W and battery voltage and the copper could demand to ride the bike to see if goes faster than 15.5 mph (which is too slow).
Bikes are confiscated and sold at police auction,so stolen and resold.
I've been building my own ebikes using conversion kits for about 8 years now. I've worked at the same place for all that time and have commuted on ebikes over 250w (way way above) and never had a problem. Just don't ride like a tit and you'd never be stopped.
That law is annoying me af. I've been commuting by bike for at least 15 years now. As my job changed, I must now commute between different places within one day, sometimes up to 8 miles per ride. My average speed with my pedal bike is 18 mph (including uphills and stops at red lights). But by warm weather (or with warm clothes) I arrive at work soaked in sweat. So I'm thinking of buying an ebike. But I don't want to ride slower. 15 mph is sooooo boring. And if I have to pedal above 15 mph to reach higher speeds... what will be the point of owning an electric bike ? The effort will only be greater, with a heavier bike to push with leg power. Some will say : so, just buy a speedelec with insurance and registration. But again, what's the point of an ebike when you could have an electric motorcycle that goes faster and is even cheaper. And most of all, if I can't use bike lanes anymore, I will be forced to share the roads with those angry - bike killers - car drivers. The speed limit in my city in France is 30 km/h (18,6 mph). Every car is going way above 31 mph. Consider you're lucky if they don't yell insults at you while pushing your bike against the sideway. So yes, for safety reasons, as well as common sense, law should be different. But for now, I'm stuck with my problem because the law is made only to prevent lazy motherfuckers to go to fast, easily pushing a throttle.
See if your company will pay for the ebike. You can get one that looks not powerful but can go faster than 15mph
You want all the benefits of a road and no responsibility, sad ...
i dont think 250w motor has enough power to get you up a steep bank without peddle assist were as a 500w or 750w will get you up a steep hill on throttle only.i think this country should follow the us and allow 500 or 750w motors.
It does have enough power to get up steep hills - but I agree with you, 500w would be a good compromise!
@@JamesStanton Yeah…if you’re a bean pole fitty! Not a 17 stone oldster. What the 250w rule is saying is we don’t want unfit, untrendy people on bikes.
@@contessa.adella 250w is an insult to the people of the uk, why should the americans get all the fun in life.put that one up ya skirt.
@@JamesStantonI'm new to this lark. As a catch up, I'm surprised this has dragged on for years. My two cents...
UK already had 15 mph limit, EU came up with 25 kmh and 250w output.
So UK raised it by 0.5mph
UK gov wording 15.5 mph and 250 max output.
That is ambiguous as it does not state or mention how it is achieved, wether through a single 250w motor or a restricted 350w/500w/750w
Does a restricted 500w produce 250w when limited to 15.5 mph.....if a 250w motor is 15.5 mph, would think 500w watts restricted to 15.5 mph equates to 250w
Police say as long as it's restricted to 15.5 they are ok with that.
But recently different forces are saying a restricted 500w to 15.5 mph is not legal.
A bike insurance company says the same
Some forces won't reply. One officer said don't bother sending in foi, they won't know themselves..
As for throttle, EU said fine as long as they do a mixture of pedaling. They didn't say what ratio but UK came up with 3.7 mph which doesn't particulary help anyone with a condition who would find it useful even if it was 8 mph.
Politicians forget the purpose of an e bike motor. It assists, it is not a driver.
A petrol moped engine is a primary driver. A fuel moped could use pedals to start it up or occasionally assist but in practice, they use the throttle.
When is 250w 250 watts and when a moped is a moped.
Now they want to class 250w as mopeds but go back to the purpose of the motor, it assists.
Or maybe the speedsters go and do something else, sell their e bikes and go back to pedal and chain mayhem.
If that is the case, more than 75% UK ebikes are not legal and destined to go to the scrappy if they banned them all, unless they register them and would look a bit daft riding a bicycle with people wondering where the heck to put the L plates.
My recumbent trike can reach 45mph on one of my local hills, and even on the flat I'm usually well over 15mph. When in town, I ride at 15mph max to stick to the rules, but out of town you need to be fast on our windey, high hedged lanes....too many impatient car drivers who would happily send me into a hedge whilst trying to overtake. If other countries don't have a problem with higher wattages, then our rules are contemptible.
Agreed!
The speed limit should be set at 25mph for ALL bikes motor or not. I've seen road bike riders tearing up the road at 25 mph plus. And they are telling ebike riders sorry you are only allowed to go 25kph or 15.5 miles. Theres a double standard here AS USUAL.
@@fender1000100 a ebike bike motor should cut out at 15.5 miles a hour it dont mean you have you do 15.5 miles a hour anything over 15.5 miles a hour is leg power only you can go 40 miles a hour on a ebike but its leg power are gravity doing the work .mid drive motors are best lest drag from the motor
@@fender1000100 superfit guys with carbon roadbikes can tuck in and do 40mph as well. So according to you an ebikes which can be ridden without any license/registration should do 40mph as well. Laws are there to make sure the average Joe on an ebike can't go on any faster and an average bicycle. And not everyone on road bikes can rip thru 25mph. If people want to go faster, they should go for a proper electric motorcycle which requires license and registration.
People think the rules are there to control us but just ask yourself, "do u have license to ride your motorcycle, car? " Do you say to the police that I'll ride my motorcycle at 15mph on bike lanes without license?
@@rahuldasmajumder5121 Snowflake Alert.
Been looking at getting an e-bike so Goggle served me this video of yours. Curious to know what the helmet it you’re wearing - as far as bike helmets go, that one actually looks like it would protect you properly, plus as a #bonus it has a massive pair of built in sunglasses. Win Win.
I agree with you 100%. I have had many ebikes now and started in 2017, when my local council let me borrow one for a month. I'm 62 years old and now have a full suspension EMTB. I ride it on the shared access pavements in my city and have done 3,200 miles in 2 years. When I ride on the shared pavements, I give way to pedestrians and behave responsibly. I also ride a huge amount of off road. Both my E-bikes are de restricted and I have never been stopped by the police or created an issue. However, I do see lots of hooligans riding Surons, with no regard for anyone else. 20 mph legal would be my sweet spot.
My kaklhoff e bike made in Germany , had a place for a number plate top of speed 45 km around 27 mph any bike you by in the uk can be modified easily
Nice debate, I have just bought a (fiido L3) and it's brilliant!! 350w motor, throttle cruise control, and a huge battery that does miles on flat journeys, chunky seat for long rides I did 50 miles uphill accent countryside in north wales, so on the flat would be way more. The best thing is you can unlock the throttle to 20mph and the bike does not look sus, also folds up.
350w motor is illegal
I have the d1 but looking to get M1 pro.
@@darrents44 just hope your not uk based as it stands out for police, good luck
I agree that these throttle e-bikes are the future of transportation, but they are NOT bicycles. I am 63 years old and commute 39km every day with a pedal assist, torque sensor e-bike, and these throttled machines that don’t require any true pedaling (only ghost pedaling) are downright dangerous when using bike lanes (often shared with pedestrians) as they are simply too fast. If they share the road with cars and motorcycles, I have no problem with them at all.
@@edteach3r it really depends on who's driving the hybrid bicycle, push bikes can also be dangerous if you have no common sense of others around when driving it. As a cyclist all my life I can't see the difference between me averaging 18mph on my canyon sl8 road (push bike) and 18mph on my fiido ebike (which is the max limit) on a 40mile ride. Don't get me wrong I agree with you regarding clowns driving these crazy 30+mph ebike on pavements etc with no common sense. Send them to jail
The restrictions weren't pulled out of the air, research was done into accidents in places they're unregulated.
Inexperienced riders tend to have lots of accidents using throttle control, it was one of the primary reasons compulsory basic training was introduced for mopeds. Leaving aside the very real safety aspect though, it's also to encourage "active transport", even just spinning the pedals with no real effort turns out to be good exercise & is a deliberate strategy to help reduce obesity & sedentary lifestyles.
20mph wasn't chosen, & almost certainly never will be as it's way too fast to turn loose the untrained & inexperienced on shared use paths mixed with pedestrians, children, pets, baby buggies etc.
First e-bike in our family, loved it.
The moke is a classic 🙌 love that bike
If you allow it to have a throttle and go at 20mph without peddling then you have a motorbike, not an e-assisted bike. Peddle harder, get fit, and use the electric assistance so you can ride further and not hinder the NHS later because of being unfit Lol. I used to cycle to work and covered 10k miles a year. Also, hacks could make the bike go faster than a bike hacked from the 15mph limit. Change it to 20mph and people will moan why not 25mph or 30mph, just pedal and get fit ;)
Until recently I hadn't rode a bike in over 15 years, I can pedal to 30 mph with my own little leggies on a very slight downhill and that's on a MTB, imagine someone fit on a racer they would piss on my 30. I think a driving licence holder should be allowed more power when you think that a 16 year old can do a CBT and be flying around on a moped with the potential to cause much more damage than me on a electrified MTB.
Not a lot of people can pedal a bike at 30mph unless going down a hill. You can't ride downhill everywhere you go. On the flats, 30 is like the max speed of somebody who is in perfect shape, perfect bike, perfect everything. Average Joe can barely hit 20mph on any consistent basis, most people will max out in the 15 range.
I reckon the assistance limit is just fine where it is, if you want to go faster, pedal harder. As for allowing throttles, why not just remove the pedals and call it a motorcycle at that point?
There's this weird dichotomy of people who want to ride a "bicycle" but really want that bicycle to actually be a moped. There's already a class of vehicles that cater to your desires, but it requires a CBT/VED/Insurance and that's too much bother apparently...
Aesthetically pleasing video
Thanks!
damn u guys can only max it at 15.5 mph? here in denmark were allowed 28 mph also limited to 250w no need to register, tax or insure it either also allowed on bike path. Come to Copenhagen the extra mph is amazing! i'm getting the Fiido M1 250w version when i'm back from summer holiday can't wait i'm so excited!!
Legally yes, the 15.5 limit is horrible. In reality a ton of people ride bikes wayyy faster than that.
I only agree with your points if there-bike is subject to the same Road conditions as for small motorised bikes formerly mopeds. I’m all for en-bikes but there is a significant danger in the more powerful an fast versions setting back the cause. Whats wrong with making a clearer distinction between those that are genuinely peddle assist and those that are let’s face it -really the modern equivalent of a moped?
It's pretty bad the restrictions on ebikes when this would be a massive help in and around towns and city's you shouldn't get penalised when these are much more economical than using even an electric car as allot less footprint. I was looking into these but like you said I have to go down 40mph roads before I hit the town so not sure if its too risky especially with no real footpaths or cycle lanes to ride on 😩
Throttle yes, increase speed to 20mph, yes. I don’t think a license or registration should be required but I think it would be good to have some sort of equivalent to a CBT to go for a 20 vs 15.5mph bike. After all, you can drive a 255cc motorbike on a provisional without passing your test which goes much faster and is heavier. I believe the pedals are from legacy law but throttles used to be legal without the need to pedal. I think it’s crazy that we’re all being pushed to buy full size EVs when small electric vehicles can be a much better option.
had an episode when i was riding just before i converted my normal bike to an ebike. i had a woman telling me that my bike was illegal because it was an ebike. i explained to her that it is a normal bike but she wouldn't have it.... apparently i made it up a steep incline way too easy ;)
Haha! Some people just want to dampen everyone else’s fun. Happy riding ❤️⚡️👊
You simply cannot cure stupidity 🤷🏻♂️
Why waste your breath.
it says 250 watt output. it does not say it has to be 250 watt motor, just 250 watt out put, and cuts off at 15.5 mph, and no throttle. there is no regulation on battery volts.
Ok two things the only reason why we're allowed electric bicycles in uk is because the it was an EU directive and UK had to adopt at the time . This is why it's 25kph and 250w , you are allowed a throttle on ebikes made up to 2017 I think but after that throttle can only help to 3mph
Really dig your editing/music choice
Thanks man, really appreciate your comment ❤️🙌
Where do you draw the line between an E-bike and it becoming an electric motorbike? There's got to some point in terms of speed, power and controls (pedal v throttle) where it's classed as a vehicle that requires a licence and insurance to use. Maybe there needs to be some intermediate category?
Wonder if the motor is more powerful than 250w but limited by electronics to 250w, it would make things easier for manufacturers who supply to different countries 🤔
knowledge is key. great informative video with jazzy vibes. 🧨
Thanks man, appreciate it
I don't own a electric bike, but I do want 1, but 250w would definitely not be enough power to get up the banks where I live.
Depends on your weight and where you live. I live in a hilly area and I weigh 70Kg. 250w is plenty to climb the steepest hill though speed decreases dramatically. Like doing 10-12kph on a 25-30% incline seems pretty capable to me. I would like more than 28.9 kph on flats though. Lastly I am more concerned about the mechanical disc brakes rapid wear from all those down hills.
250W is enough power to get up a 10/15% incline with moderate leg power put in (on power mode)
Get it if you want just cycle carefully and be mindful
My electric bike was built in 1972 and although it got a modern battery now I don't know whether it is compliment
This is satire right? and if not, can you take a picture and upload it to Imgur and link it here please? I'm intrigued
Great video - I agree that E-Bikes are a fantastic way to encourage more low/no carbon transport. When it comes to throttles and more power - then you are effectively describing a moped/motorbike - it just has electric not petrol propulsion - so should electric cars not require a license, tax, insurance etc? its a minefield frankly and as you point out - legislation needs to keep up, and make room for more e-bikes. this video is 2 years old the number of electric 'motorbikes' that are throttle controlled and do 30-40 mph+ on london streets is very high now.
The throttle law is an absolute myth! You can have a twist and go throttle up to 15.5 mph if the e bike is type approved, there are models being sold right now which have been type approved i with a twist and go throttle one of them is called “whisper e bikes” and the other is called “”pedibal” .Both can legally use throttle on its own up without pedalling up to 15.5 mph
if you have AM category on driving licence you can drive any moped between 28 and 40 mph in UK
I don't own an e bike but I agree that the assist speed should be upped to 20 mph. This is the main reason why I don't use one. I'm pretty out of shape but can ride around 15/16 mph average. I would like an e bike as I would probably do my 10 mile commute more often by bike if I had one. I used to do this regularly but don't have the extra time needed these days. 20 mph assist would maybe make this possible again and shave just enough time back off my journey. Just as a matter of interest how comfortable are those bikes over say 10 miles or so?
Spot on video, and I hope they decided to make things safer by improving the speed a bit. A law requiring you to be an obstacle is not wise. In the US, the top speed of the most common e-bikes is 20mph, and we still get passed all the time by pedal bikes. I have watched pedal bike riders terrorize pedestrians and children, passing them at 30mph without warning. And yet, I can be a polite rider ringing my quaint bell and telling people I'm passing them as I carefully go by at 10mph or less, and *I* get told I don't belong? I also agree with you about the throttle. I take a ten year old lass to and from the school bus every day, and it's not always convenient to pedal when carrying a passenger and book bags, especially in the rain. I also carried an adult passenger for three miles when his PEV battery failed, and am grateful for the throttle! The throttle makes an e-bike zero mph faster.
Not a lot of people can pedal a bike at 30mph, so you are full of S. That's like the max speed of somebody who is in perfect shape, perfect bike, perfect everything. Going downhill they can reach those speeds, but in flat areas, your average Joe can barely hit 20mph on any consistent basis, most people will max out in the 15 range.
@@marcuslinton310 agreed. People are just stupid. According to them, since some people can even tuck in and do 40mph on their carbon roadbikes, ebikes without riding license and registration should do 40mph as well. They don't understand the reason why ebikes are limited in power and speed.
@@rahuldasmajumder5121 Why do we need the government to tell us how many watts a bicycle can have?
You call people stupid but you are ignorant of the way electric motors work if you think the 250 watts they write on the motor means it puts out 250 watts.
I'm trying to get your logic, 20 is ok but any faster and we need to pay the government?
500 lbs cargo bikes going 20 are fine but light ebikes going 30 is bad?
Recumbant trikes can go much faster than a bike with the same power input should we limit them the same?
Don't you think maybe we need to create new classes of vehicles that aren't all or nothing legally. Something not regulated to death as if it's a 2 ton SUV or truck capable of 80 mph.
The all or nothing approach just rewards being stupid and ruining it for everyone in the end instead of embracing a lite class capable of say 45 mph max at less than the cost of a fully capable car.
Use laws to promote inovation instead of squashing it.
It’s illegal to have fun in the uk.
Also the earth is flat
Technically it is not legal to have fun in the UK unless you are a MP.
And yes the Earth is flat until you get to the mountains.
@@63phillip I was walking along a few weeks ago and didn't notice the kerb drop, my foot slammed down on the tarmac and I had that sinking feeling for a second.
Flat earth debunked.
Thanks 🙏🏻 useful information.
You’re welcome! Glad it helped ☺️👍
750 watt for me, I always stop for horses on trails and slow down for walkers. Should a set of rules be imposed by the corrupt, who break any laws themselves !!!!.
Love the light
Great video mate... I had a Karen shout at me in Richmond Park... I did try to talk to her to explain that my s2 was legal but she didn't care...
😂😂 Karen’s are the worst! I don’t mind when its curiosity but shouting is a bit much
you should print off a sheet explaining the laws and hand it out lol
@@victoria653 😂😂
The braindead live amongst us
Becoming legal in July insured as a moped 😎
ruclips.net/video/-eNZWg5l3-M/видео.html
Really interesting and useful. Thanks for posting .
I’m buying a Carrera fury and getting someone to convert it with a throttle etc… tbh can’t afford the underground anymore and work 2 jobs 7 days a week.. can’t be arsed to cycle so much… hoping it works out… I’m not brave and will not push the limits. Just want to get from A to B safely and soundly
Cool helmet! What brand is it?
Hey! It’s a TT&Co ghost rider. I added the visor separately 😎☺️
250w motor limit is a problem. if the speed is limited anyway why limit the motor aswell
Where did you get the sticker's 250w 🤣🤣🤣🤣
eBay
My ADO A20 is 350w And can go 21mph unlocked. I am not buying any sticker to hide that ever. It's an unenforceable law. That's what you all have to know from the get go.
Otherwise they will have to arrest and ban THOUSANDS of uber eats, deliveroo and just eat delivery riders. Most have souped up 500w PLUS bikes. That can do 20mph PLUS.
There should be ONE universal law for all riders. And that's 25mph. Targeting one group of riders simply because their bikes have motors on them is pointless. And again unenforceable.
Great video thanks. Can I ask where did you get the helmet from please it looks wicked..
I wrote to my MP who has raised a written question with the minister of Transport. I would like to ride my Ebike but currently due to an accident I cant peddle so that means using a twist and go would be illegal. Lots of people with disabilities could really benefit from an Ebike
If you knows the law then he will reply to you saying that electric bikes with twist and go throttles are legal to use in the same way and normal pedal bike can be used provided it is type approved and meets all the eapc rules
Totally agree with everything you said - The UK law on ebikes is so outdated!
The issue is not ebikes and most riders, it's that the police are not policing the roads and stopping the "lunatics" from doing stupid things - The lack of proper policing is "The Elephant in the Room"
It's exacly the same issue with electric scooters and until they sort out the policing issues you will always have idiots riding on the pavement and giving us all a bad name.
Keep up the good work Buddy!
Nice video just one question. Isn’t it illegal to have passengers on a bicycle?
Surely the fact that you have to actually pedal the thing in order to propel it forward is the BIG give away !!! It's still a pedal bike (in your case), the motor size is a different argument altogether !!!
So if by law the motor has to cut out at 15.5mph, what if the rider(not me anymore) can pedal up to say 35mph after the motor has cut off , would this now be legal?? and if so how would anyone know your motor had cut off??. if stopped could you not just say you pedalled the extra 20 mph on top of the motors power.
It’s how manufactures should sell consumers the bike (with a motor cut off at 15.5mph) and looking at the bikes details would show this. It’s completely legal to ride faster with pedal power (if you can). I often ride around 17-18 mph with a little pedal power and obviously much quicker on downhill 😉
Not a lot of people can pedal a normal high end race bike at 30mph and especially not heavier E-Bike unless they are going downhill and you can't ride downhill everywhere you go. So, no, pedaling to 35mph isn't going to happen except downhills.
@@marcuslinton310 I wouldn't go at 35mph down a hill on an e bike screw that would go flying over the handlebars.
Just do it, What’s the worst could happen?
The power limit is a bit meaningless - first its unclear if it applies to electrical input or mechanical output. Secondly its widely interpreted as a continuous power limit, which means that manufacturers feel free to exceed it for short term power boosts typical of an urban cycle ride. Double the limit is not unknown.
Otherwise, agree with the comments below that 20 mph would be a more usable speed limit. I was hoping that this would be the one Brexit freedom to emerge, but no political will to do that it appears.
Ebike should be allowed to have a top speed of 30mph. Normal bikes can go faster than 30mph. 20mph is to slow, I have found that I always need a little bit more power. 30mph EBikes are perfect.
That sucks, you guys can only have 250w? In Canada where i live its 500w and in the USA its 750w
Yeah I think it needs to change, although 250w mostly feels like enough - especially in the centre of town. It’s when I get out of the city and on the open road where the speed limit is 40mph+ it’s more of an issue. Do you have an ebike?
Welcome to the wonderfull state called "European Union"...
Anything can be hacked and tuned... tuning has always existed and will exist as long as the human race is alive...
EU Class 1 - 45Km/h max 1000W
EU Class 2 - 25Km/h max 250W
A lot will go to 750w peak power, its 250w continuous. Its all in the fine print and how they rate motors.
so you need to make the motor legally a "detachable powered exoskeleton stored on the bike but separate from it but stabilized near the bike" to ride faster?
Hey what’s the make of the full face helmet please?? Good video and info!! Subbed
OK YOU HAVE GOT IT RIGHT.. . SO I WILL 2.
I wasn’t aware that having a throttle on a 250watt Ebike is illegal?!
Yes 20 miles an hour should be made legal, I think some peoples concerns in government is that Ebike riders can’t be made accountable like for example they’r usually not registered, don’t have a number plate for anpr cameras to pick up so therefore restrictions are kept in place.
That helmet is a little bit extreme though matey, asking to be pulled over by police etc wearing that. Wear a normal cycling helmet?
Current e-bike laws are spot on, people who want to increase e-bike speed limits to 20 mph will never be satisfied and always want more. E-bikes sold are setup and geared for 15.5 mph so any modifications would be extra costs. Lets not forget the 15.5 mph already have a -/+ 2mph tolerance .
The trouble is there must be a roughly equal number of lunatics on ebikes or regular cycles as there are lunatics on four petrol or diesel fueled vehicles. People think they own the road no matter what mode of transport they are on these days.
Agreed, at least with the lunatics on ebikes and regular bikes they can't crash through buildings or ram into crowds as easily.
A throttle that works up to 10 km/h is not a bad idea, but not necesarry up to 25 km/h. Actually, my e-bike has walk assist up to 5 km/h already. That is enough to get things going already
Limitations as in Australia are outmoded and ridiculous! In America, they are quite used to motors of 6ooo watts which can keep up with the flow of traffic and are far more sensible.
Yep I built my own here in the US they fly upwards 35+ mph no problem
You are confused about the law here. 750 watt and 28 mph if you help pedal. Anything more is a motorcycle and has to meet the requirements of that class.
I ride an ebike, I guess people get suspicious of urs cos it don’t resemble a typical bike that people have come used to , the headlight makes it look more of a motorbike heritage cheers shaneweightman
But if you cant have a passenger on a Moped unless you hold a full car Licience why do think it's legal to give a front or rear seater to one when no licience or tax is required?
or to put it simple carrying 2 on a push bike is a bit of dodgy or illegal thing to do?
I've got a Riff Raff Black Shadow, it says limited to 250w but this can be switched too 1000w instantly; guess what I have it set at? Fact is the police just don't have the time or resources to start checking bikes and outputs. The only way they are even going bother with anyone is if that person acts like an idiot; lets face we so many people in cars acting like idiots that the police will be hard pressed to do anything about Ebikes. The one thing that might bring a change in the law, is if the idiots start riding pavements at speed.
I hear you and you are right. That was exactly my point; there are idiots in cars on bikes and pedestrian idiots too - so this is no reason not to increase the speed limit of ebikes. The majority of ebike riders I know (or have seen) are respectful of road users (and pedestrians) and ride responsibly.Ultimately though, I'd rather legally be riding at 25-30mph and not have to tamper with my electronics to go faster - lets hope we see some change!
@@JamesStanton There's a very simple reason not to increase the speed of EAPCs, which is that they become mopeds or motorcycles. If you want to go faster get a license etc. The reasons people cite for "needing" to go faster are the same reasons that pedal cyclists use to ask for better infrastructure and policing - it's generally inconsiderate/incompetent drivers and poor road conditions that cause problems; faster e-bikes won't solve either of those, and if you're not part of the solution ...
@@eternaloptimist2840 I respectfully disagree. I’m suggesting an increase of just 5-10kmph. Being able to have a little more speed to keep up with traffic on larger roads would deter drivers (incompetent and impatient ones) from dangerously overtaking and would in turn keep the traffic moving. I do however think there is an argument for ebikes with this additional speed to have either a license (ebike proficiency test!?) of some sort and/or some kind of insurance/public liability.
@@JamesStanton But you'd want them to be allowed to go where only pedal cycles are allowed, at motor vehicle speeds. Good luck on those shared use footpaths.
@@eternaloptimist2840 This is where common sense must prevail. The same argument can be applied to super cars and motorcycles no? We all know most cars and motorbikes can do way over 100mph but they still permit them in 20mph speed limit zones. Or indeed road bikes going flat out through a park/shared footpath. Again, another reason to hold some kind of test or even an online test for ebikers. Interesting discussion and one I believe should be fleshed out - ebikes are the future!
Great video James… I’m very close to buying a Bafang 620 ultra mid drive full suspension fat bike for Green lanes and some off reading… I take it now watching for video it would not be legal in the uk
It's not legal, but police wont bother most likely as long as you
A pedal
B dont go silly fast (20mph is generally ok)
C don't get into an accident.
I have the Frey ex which uses bafang 620 and it's great, I wouldn't bother with fat tyres , the 2.8 tyres are plenty good enough.
The intro music daymn what's sample that would be for a hip hop track
I converted my Giant commuter cycle and fitted it with a with a 500w rear wheel motor and a 36v battery. The controller limits the assist to 15.5mph but i can change some params in the controller and get assist to a higher speed than that - for off-roading (or just when i need to carry more weight and need the extra power help up hills etc). I'm 61 and not a speed nutter.
I'm interested to know what you think about its legality - since based on the motor capability label the UK Police could assume its illegal for use on the road - even though the assist is controller-limited . . .
Legally speaking, the fact that it’s 500w may be an issue. What does the label say exactly? In my experience, I’ve not once been stopped by any law enforcement, and I’ve been riding an ebike for 3 years in and around London (on an ebike that looks like a moped/motorbike). Honestly, I think you’ll be just fine as long as you’re not irresponsible or riding on a pavement. But the bigger point here is that, as you rightly say, a bit more speed/power for steep hills or for carrying a heavier load (I would add for faster country roads too) would in fact make the ride safer for you and would keep the traffic moving. Good luck and thanks for the comment!
Easy Clive, buy a 250w 15.5mph label for £3 off ebay and cover or replace your sticker.
lot's of people have just recently lost there E bikes to the police in the UK because of this very reason. watch out in big towns and cities . It's not about having a limiter.
It's not legal, the fact that it's limited by software (or a switch somewhere) is irrelevant as you can just switch off the limit. The law specifies that the motor must have a maximum sustained power of 250W, so it can probably handle 500W peak for shorter periods. But you don't actually need peak power to get up hills, it's torque that counts in that situation and that's best provided by a mid drive with appropriate gearing, or to a lesser extent a geared hub motor. Direct-drive hub motors don't provide high torque at low speeds; 250W direct drive will perform poorly on hills, but it's what you'll find on the cheapest e-bikes.
@@eternaloptimist2840 larger motors and limiters are perfectly legal. Rad Power Bikes sells into the EU/UK, US and Canada. The same model in all markets has the same motor. The only difference is the controller and display.
Great video. Thx2you. What is the brand of your helmet and mirror google. I want them for USA use. Links?
Hey 👋 thanks for the kind comment! The helmet is by TT&Co but I added the visor. The mirror is by Mirrcycle happy riding! ⚡️
I'm sure the half brain government could make any electric transport acceptable. Maybe require insurance or registration. The UK requirement is type approval not CE
It looks so heavy thought ...with slow 250w motor it probably won't even pull up hill easily ...
It is a heavy bike but it goes up hill easily. When I carry a passenger it’s a bit slower up hill but still not a problem 👍
nice vid + editing! whats your helmet called? is it on amazon?
Thanks! ☺️ it’s by TT&Co and think it’s called a ghost rider - but not on Amazon. The visor I added separately 😁
Thats a good perspective. Your bike is trying to look like a motorbike, I think its daft to do that, same with these Surons etc that clearly are an electric motorbike.
I was pulled over on my fat tyre ebike and given a leaflet and warning because my motor at 500w was 'illegal' and so was my throttle because " that makes it a motor vehicle, so you need insurance which you can't get"
Its not my fault that private industry does not provide me with the insurance facility.
250w is pathetic, mine is a 500w rear hub and I have to pedal like a bugger to get up steep hills.
I saw a guy with a massive box on his cargo bike and he told me his bike is legal, he is a delivery guy. Anyway I looked up the motor and it says its 250w but has a 'peak power' facility of 1250w !!!!! So how the F is that legal? So this is how the manufacturers are providing the required power to get a load up a hill while pretending to follow the antiquated UK laws.
If the government makes me wear a helmet and get tax and insurance I am just going to buy a legal but noisy 2 stroke 125 motocroser and scream around town making it smell of lovely 2 stroke exhaust like I did when I was 17
All motors at "250w" actually peak at 500w+. And yeah some of the high end bafang and Bosch motors will draw over 1000w when it comes to hill climbing. My 250w bike on the display says it's pulling 550w when faced with any sort of challenge which I find hilarious.
@@JudeTheRUclipsPoopersubscribe Yes its a farce, car drivers are allowed to have an engine that can go illegally fast over 70mph but are given a pass on that, when cycling along a flat road our motors are not illegal, they are only illegal going up a hill, which does no harm to anyone.
I will claim I not not breaking the law under Common Law - there is no loss or injury to another person or property by going up hill using more than 250w, I am sure a Jury is going to realise the law is an Ass
@@utubeape I ride 1000 watts on the road just because the hills in my area are quite frankly a huge pain in the ass.
What bike is that you have? It looks like one of those Sync Cruize bikes.