@@mickrowe1600 I don't agree with an increase to 20mph limit. E-bikes require no licence, so effectively you can get a teenager on an E-bike going down the street at 20mph. What Electroheads failed to mention in the maths is that going from 15mph to 20mph increases your impact energy(damage if in an accident) by 77%. Cars are allowed to go faster because they have a license to prove that they past the safety test of driving at such speeds. It might be nicer for responsible adults to go a little faster but it is less safe for kids. E-bikes are designed to make cycling easier. It's not an excuse to go beyond your capabilities without a license. Those who want to go faster should get a license to prove that they can do so safely, like the rest of the responsible adult population.
Absolutely agree, I got an e-bike when Arthritis set in in my knees, I used to ride a Mountain bike and a road bike up until that point and still do socially, I mainly use the ebike as a commuter. The change to the eBike was so weird, on the other bikes I would average 15 to 17 mph on a ride which means I would be travelling at 20+mph to get that average up after all the stops for junctions and traffic lights etc, on the eBike when I hit that 15.5mph and the bike stops assisting even in the ECO mode which I generally use to extend my range, it just feels like your are going up hill with two flat tyres, you are still doing 15.5mph but feels so wrong, I thought I would get used to it but after nearly three years I have not, and with that pretty much being your max speed the average is generally down to 10 to 12 mph or less. So I agree and always have done 18 to 20mph limit would be more sensible on the road, however I think it should be 8mph on a none segregated shared cycle/pedestrian pavement. I personally would pay a road tax for the bike, towards improvements for cyclists, but the problem with that is it would put too many people off cycling when we need to be get more in the saddle.
As a rural e-bike commuter, I'm with you completely. And here's the main reason why. The average dog can sustain a speed of 19mph. Anyone who's cycled in the countryside will understand. It's really not a joke.
2 года назад+44
Dogs can exceed 30mph. That's the legal limit in many rural areas ;) Also they chase bikes, cars, horses, cows. It's instinct. They had it ever since they were wolves chasing buffalo. When cased by doggos don't speed up, slow down. Even stop for a moment, Show them you're not pray, show you're not scared. Don't scream. Talk. Firmly, calmly. 99% of the time they will stop and walk the other way mumbling doggo swears. 1% of the time you can use a pepper spray for the really dummy ones. It will hurt, hurt a lot but the doggo might learn a valuable lesson and live longer. Don't puff your own face, it will end in tears. I love animals, never hit or sprayed any except once, a really dumb sheppard that had his pack behind him. Once in almost 40 years of cycling and walking the wild and the country side. And when I'm barked at and chased by dogs while cycling, my *only* fear is for the dog. If it bites my tire his teeth are gone, maybe the jaw, maybe his skull or if it gets hit by a car while fixating on me.
@ Unfortunately, pepper spray (even as an animal deterrent) is illegal in Britain. The 19 mph speed for dogs comes from a RUclips source about escaping dogs, and seems about right as far as I can tell from observation. That's about the speed they start to struggle. Though admittedly that's hardly a definitive source.
2 года назад+9
@@angharadhafod we're talking about Welsh Corgi here, right? :) I was looking at the speedometer and at the pooch with my own eyes not on YT when I noted that speed. And that was a pooch not a bred whippet or hound. And if you live on the island you really have less to worry. Doggos there are far less berserk than here on the continent. Slow and say something to hurt their ego. It will suffice. Edit: the car's speedometer*
But as an urban cyclists living in the Netherlands, i don't think having a horde of exited kids, drunk tourists & hazy elderly people speeding trough the city at 30 miles an hour is a good idea .
I live in Romania, EU here as well, but the jungle/wild part of it, no one really enforces that ebike speed limit regulation (as many other rules as well), the infrastructure is almost non-existent, so yeah, I ride my ebike derestricted and indeed, found out that the average speed I consistently have during my commutes and whatnot is around 32 km/h, so that 20mph indeed. Ofc, I also have the advantage of unlimited assistance for peak scenarios when I am above that, but I have to admit I’d really be less inclined to derestrict if the limit here was similar to the one across the ocean.
Totally agree! 15.5 mph is a hopelessly low limit for most cylists. I own a lighter e-bike and can easily cruise at 17 mph on the flat but with the current limit, I'd struggle with the heavier e-bikes. Incidentally, I'm 74yrs old and find my e-bike a great help on the hills but sometimes want a faster speed on the flat.
"I own a lighter e-bike and can easily cruise at 17 mph on the flat" Yep, and that fact makes the whole idea of cutting off motor support after an arbitrary speed "limit", utterly preposterous and logically indefensible.
Just buy a Chinese ebike and you can set the speed to whatever you want. I set mine to 20mph. Got overtaken by another ebike the other day. He must have been going 25mph, so there's many people who do not put up with these dumb UK laws.
That’s awesome you’re still out riding at 74 God Bless. I’m 56 and go 30-50+ miles everytime I take my Ebike out. And I always peddle with it never throttle only. Just to me seems more fun that way!! Hopefully I’ll still be riding at 74 and you when you’re 92. 18 years away. Lol 👍🏼👍🏼
Very sensible. Here in the UK a child of 14 can ride an eBike. Raising the speed limit of these machines to 20mph must be accompanied by an increase in age limit. Currently anyone 16 or over can ride a 49cc moped so that would be a good starting point. Some form of mandatory training similar to the cycling proficiency test in also needed.
@@badabing8884 de-restrict your already powerful 25km/h limited ebike. I bought a Flyer Upstreet 2 folding bike, very premium, belt drive, it doesn't make sense for this thing to only drive 25km/h. So now I commute at double the legal speed 50km/h, 28km to and from work. It's also a lease paid by my job so if it breaks it won't hurt my wallet. After a few months of driving like this I finally bought a helmet.
I purchased my first e-cycle way back in 2010. However, I've now given up cycling (I'm now 69 yrs old) because where I live in NW England, there are basically no cycle lanes, so I no longer feel safe on the road. We require more cycle lanes here in the UK
Oh move to Denmark then! As now 76 I still uses bikes and we have a lot of lanes only for bikes, also Express lanes crossing Cph. with lights optimized for bikes! And raised to separate them from a road! We have bridges crossing the harbor only for walkers and bikes also, and some following a motorway, crossing water!
I dissagree...I am an cucler and driver also.we don't need to spend million and billions of $ for that shity bike lanes!the curent roads can sustain all kind of trafic including bikes...we are not that special you know? We only need to respect ourselfs in the trafic...and sadly I may say that bikers are not far away than drivers when it comes to respect...a lot of biker don't respect traffic signs or pedestrial but we want to have special lanes paid by them
@CristyMc-v4r I'm assuming that as you're mentioning $$$, you perhaps live in the USA? UK roads tend to be a lot narrower than roads in the USA. Unfortunately, due to health problems, I now use a mobility scooter to get around. This comes with a whole new set of problems. A UK road legal mobility scooter/electric wheelchair has a maximum speed of 8 mph, and cannot use the cycle lanes. When using the pavement, maximum speed is 4 mph. A lot of other road users (cars, wagons, cyclists, bikers, tractors, etc), have no respect for mobility scooter (and wheelchair) users. They consider mobility scooters/electric wheelchairs ought to be banned from using the roads. I avoid going on the road as it is definitely safe, but there are a lot of roads (country B & C roads especially ) that have no pavements, so have no other alternative but to travel on the road. Now I feel even more vulnerable when on the road, than I used to feel when I was cycling.
You make a very valid point. I’m in my 50s and have an electric bike. I built it myself and gave it a higher spec due to mainly riding off road. On the occasion’s that I’m on road , I dial it down and it’s not unreasonable to think there could be a crossover,even if it meant having a test of some kind to validate the use of it. Oh and by the way, as an engineer and musician, the use of the word ,mechanical instead of acoustic makes more logical sense,as “acoustic,”references sound and resonance. Excellent video, keep it up.
That makes sense if they keep only to the streets. The issue is Bikes (electric or not) ride everywhere :) Plus doesn't require roud rules examination.
@@Matanumi "Some cites are just not built foe ebikes weather shite infrastructure or just too far of a distance" So what? If you can ride a bike somewhere - and in reality you can ride them _everywhere_ - that automatically means you can also ride e-bikes.
That's debatable. It depends on if there are cycle lanes or the roads are wide enough. In my area ANY bike can cause traffic to back up right down the road. It's nothing unusual to see 10-20 cars backed up behind a bike. It not only causes congestion but those vehicles produce a lot more emissions than if they had a clear road. I use an electric bike every day to go to my local town about 8 miles away and try as much as possible to avoid the main roads.
@@Matanumi If the Netherlands and Denmark can be full of bikes, why can't British cities? Which city has worse weather than them? There is no such thing as bad weather for cycling, just the wrong clothes. Ask a Dane. It's true that the infrastructure isn't there. So, what? Do you just give up and continue building crazy expensive, inefficient infrastructure for cars? Or do you simply start building infrastructure for bikes? Not hard!
Absolutely spot on. The rules of the road are ALL due to motorists. Cyclists are not the problem. Most importantly, the current laws have been promulgated by motorists, not cyclists. Auto manufacturers are scared shitless of cycles, this is why the laws are designed to keep e-bikes to a minimum speed, so that they can continue to sell killer cars - deadly cars - they do not want any limits imposed on their size, power, speed...
I commute everyday on "Acoustic" bike (which I love by the way) but there are days when it's wet, windy, or your not feeling particularly fit and the very good point you made regarding turning up to work a bit sweaty and having to do the 5 minute cool down walk, when I think an electric bike would be nice at this point... My only resistance to buying one is literally, the "resistance" once you reach the artificial power assist limit.
No matter how fast bikes are, car drivers will always try to overtake, even though we overtake them more often than not... We need secure bike parking in Cities es also
@@mintywebb its safer to have a bike behind a car than in front . this is Especially true from truckers that can Skid for hundreds of feet after slamming the brakes .
There are S-Pedelecs in Germany, which are capped much higher. Nur they are not classified as bikes, they are classified as small motorcycles (Moped). So a licenseplate to prove the mandatory insurance is needed and no use of bikelanes unless especially allowed.
To be clear, each state (and sometimes individual municipalities) has its own e-bike laws. I think 38 states have now adopted some form of the 3 class system promoted by People for Bikes. So it is pretty common, but not quite universal.
Absolutely agree, it’s my main issue with current ebike regulations too. Many people just don’t/can’t understand the big safety/security difference between 16 and 20 MPH on a bike in urban traffic. You get overtaken a lot more in stop/start traffic at 16 (25kph) than you do at 20. Reducing passes, lowers the potential for being clipped, or pushed into parked cars. 20 is still a long way from moped speeds, which I’m not advocating for, but is far safer than 16.
Yup, that's my biggest gripe with commuting on ebike, not fast enough to merge safely with traffic. 35kmh/22mph should be the limit. Once my warranty runs out I'm fitting a volspeed v4.
You make some very good points, yes please lets get that limit up to 20mph. One thing what car is only 1000Kg ? cars are now about 1500Kg upwards, and if it's a hybrid or electric it's heavier. And where can you buy a Ebike a low as 15Kg ? most are about 25Kg.
Definitely agree. I bought a cheap 250w Chinese ebike last summer and it has absolutely changed my life. But of course it could be better. 750w, a 20mph speed limit and around 50nm of torque (I live in the Outer Hebrides, which is not the flattest topography in the world) would be smarter, safer and, quite frankly, better.
Bosch motors are 250w continuous but up to 850w peak, so plenty powerful enough, their high speed versions do 28mph but are still rated at 250w, up to 85nm torque.
@@ratbert1 indeed the whole 250watt max is none issue, there are many 85nm, 90nm and even 100nm models around as long as they follow the 25km/h drop off point. i own a 80nm and 85nm ebikes and almost never use more than 50% of their power.
@@ratbert1 I'd say the 25kph cut-off is a bigger issue than the power limit in most situations (assuming you're not riding a loaded cargo bike up a 10% gradient for example). That cut-off affects (almost) everyone, everywhere.
@@ratbert1 The problem with Bosch is they make it difficult to unrestrict the motor. You're better off avoiding Bosch and going for a Chinese make as they will allow you to unrestrict it.
E-bikes are part of the solution and way forward, just like acoustic bikes. But what would help maybe even more is to improve your infrastructure for cyclists. This will also give space for those who want to go faster, with our without e-assist, and make it much safer for all. Enjoy your ride!
I went turkey recently and its insane they literally have an entire footpath made specially for bicycles and electric bikes and they literally just rent out electric bikes. Its insane a country like the UK doesnt have any of that but worst of all it's illegal to own one for some reason unless you get it from one of the designated e bikes
@@supersonic4863Parts of the UK have a lot of very steep hills. Take Bristol for example, and on a ride up to Cliveden, you will emerge in a ball of sweat on a moderately warm day. The same is true where I live in the Cotswolds. However, if you go to Oxford, or Cambridge, which are essentially flat and have a lot of bicycles, then it is not such an issue. The same is true of much of London, although that is a much larger place, so distances are longer.
For me the joy of ebikes comes from riding them slowly but having that extra power beside you is very nice specially at traffic lights and signs. And don't forget it's a bicycle after all if you get thrown around it's going to hurt.
I use my road bike to get around London and I overtake a few e bikes while going at 25-30kph so I think I understand. Going slower than traffic on my bike sometimes feels dangerous and because e bikes are heavier, you end up doing more work to keep up once the motor caps off which defeats the point of the electronic assistance imo.
bought a used roadbike for £150, rrp was £600, ebikes, at £600+ can't keep up can't do the range. Paying more for less range seems like a scam. I like the idea of hill assist here in Wales but i'd forever be in eco mode for fear of running flat, and don't fancy hulling a 20 kg bike up a hill.
Yes! Completely agree. We're a bit better off here in Canada with Max speed limited to 18.5mph (30kmh) and 500W Max power. It makes a heck of a difference going up steep hills...I would much prefer upping the power to 750W with 20mph. Many manufacturers have models with 1000W.
In the USA I've heard that no matter the stated size of the motor it has to be LIMITED (electronically) to 750 watts. hence the 1000wat motors can be sold as it is the Buyers responsibility to get a controller that limits its power input.
@@daniellow426 Unless you are riding a cargo bike, 750 or1000 W is a total overkill. It is no longer an ebike but an escooter that needs insurance and should be treated as a motorbike.
@@th5841I can cycle 22mph on the flat a 750w motor goes 28mph On a Fatbike with fat tires and with dual batteries weighing 225lbs then you need 750w + other wise you will just walk hills
@@ihavetowait90daystochangem74 28mph/45km/h is moped speed. It doesn't belong on cycle tracks or -lanes. Compared to 15.5/25, 28/45 has a kinetic energy 3.3 times more. Then you, in addition, must multiply with the weight ratio between the fatbike and an ordinary bike. All in all you end up with a no go for these kinds of bikes being categorized as bicycles... in the rest of the world. Even increasing an ordinary ebike's max speed from 25 to 30 km/h gives an increased kinetic energy of 44%. For most people 25km/h is an normal cruising speed. On a racing bike 35 (22 ) was my cruising speed (not anymore). So if you want to, and you are able to go faster, use a racing bike (and get hated by the rest of bikers if you don't restrict yourself).
I’ve got an ebike at 52v 1500w, never gotten a ticket. Top speed of 70kmh. You just have to abide road rules and not drive like a hooligan in town and nobody really cares. I’m in Canada too btw
Totally agree with you . On a business trip to California and zipping around on a hired e-bike at 20 +mph assisted is the way it should be on my Cube back home . Great points made , hopefully they will see sense as it’s a long overdue much needed upgrade to the regs.great videos , I’m subscribing now !
I am 63 years old, live in Canada and commute 36km daily. My Bosch-powered class 1 e-bike tops out at 32km. I regularly exceed that on a level road by just pedaling harder… no problem. I think 32km is a realistic speed limit, so agree completely that these speed limits need to be reviewed in the UK/Europe; but also to ban throttle e-bikes (classes 2 and 3) from using bike lanes.
Nah, the 25 kph limit is fine. When you share cycle paths with unmotorised children and senior citizens, it's just safer for everybody. There is a second class called "S-pedelec", that goes up to 45 kph and is banned from cyclepaths. You need a helmet, insurance and a license plate, but if you have the kind of commute that goes along a lot of empty countryside, that would be the bike for you.
I totally agree. Even if we kept the same speed limit but got allowed to have bigger motors it would be great as well. I am a big guy and working in construction. I drive around 25miles per day in and out of London. I also carry a toolbag which weights 20kg. Its a real struggle sometimes especially on a hill and i can feel the pain of the 250w motor trying to push a mixed load of 150kg up a hill. 😂😂😂
Absolutely agree, motor size dosent matter when a a speed limit is in place. I have had a 250w bike about 12 years ago, it was weak and didn't offer any assistance upo hills because the bike weighed 35kg, that coupled with a 36v battery that only lasted a year. in my opinion 1000w 48v bike is just right as long as its coupled with hydraulic brakes. 20mph should be the limit 15 is just dangerous in some situations and is slower than most would pedal a standard pushbike.
Its crazy nearly every other country just allows insanely fast fully electric e bikes with no insurance and stuff and the UK just doesn't let you have anything that isnt speed limited and pedal assist only
Agreed! It's so hard to pedal past 15.5 on an electric bike because of motor resistance. Also have you 'Shakespeared' a new word for non electric bikes? I've never heard you call them that before.
Yes it was new to me but Google says it is “a term used with a nod to the difference between an acoustic vs electric guitar. “ Apparently. I wonder if that makes Eilis the modern Dylan?
" It's so hard to pedal past 15.5 on an electric bike because of motor resistance" Depends on the bike. I get _zero_ resistance beyond 15.5 mph on my Specialized Turbo Levo SL. (Not disagreeing with the premise of the video - I agree 100% that we should have motor support beyond 15.5 - but I'm a bit of a stickler for accuracy.)
@@keithreeder To be fair it's not the motor resistance, it's the fact that you're suddenly losing whatever assistance the motor is providing (maybe not the full 250w but a good proportion of your own power anyway). I'm pretty sure I could pedal a normal e-bike at 20mph for a while but the transition at 15.5 would still be disconcerting - especially if it happened at a big roundabout or intersection...
your so right.ive been moaning about this for the 8 years ive been ebikeing. because of damage to my knees i cant pedal for long these days and missed my cycling. thanks to ebikes im back on the road and enjoying riding again. great vid.
Being a recent convert to e-bikes, I can see your point about updating the law to allow a larger motor and a greater maximum assisted speed. However, comparing yourself (on an ebike) to someone on a standard cycle could push for laws that could bring in a problem. Firstly, if you feel that you want to increase the allowed speed for ebikes (whilst in full-assist motor mode) to be comparable to other motorised (petrol / diesel) vehicles, you may find that the new law would compel you to use only the regulated traffic lanes and you may not be able to use cycle / bus lanes and pavements (when allowed). After all, if you can keep up with motorised traffic you should use the appropriate lane. I realise that this could cause a problem regarding feeling "safe" on the general roads, so I don't see this as a solution. This is where the realms of e-scooters (not pedal assist) should be and if you feel the need to go this fast I recommend you look into trying this out as a daily commute. Secondly, if you feel that a manual cyclist has an issue with you going slower than them on a cycle path, then that is their problem and not yours. Cyclists (both electric and assisted) have a "safe" lane to use. If the faster manual cyclist cannot hold back for a few moments to pass you safely, then they are being as ignorant as the motorist who will not offer the same courtesy on the public highway. I am an ebike convert and use my bike as a daily commute. My round trip is just 4.5 miles but 99% of this has to be on the public highway. So far I have found the majority of road users to be courteous. I do however make sure that I use lights, hi-vis jacket and stripes on my bike to help them see me. After all, I am a much smaller object to see, especially when it is dark. It would be great to have a much more powerful motor when I travel home (all uphill) but I take my time and I am happy to get there in a reasonable time. As you say in many of your videos, this is "assisted cycling" and I enjoy getting some work-out while I get there. My final thoughts are: Upgrading from 15.5mph to 20mph (as a maximum assisted speed) should be fine, but anything over that could bring in more unwanted legislation regarding the current "pedal-assist" ebike laws. If you want to go faster, get an e-scooter with a throttle, no pedaling and stick on the general roads. Also if the maximum speed for ebikes is increased to 20mph, riders should be aware that many times they are occupying the same routes as pedestrians and they need, in the same way that motorists should be aware, to be alert to slower moving users. I often use a cycle / pedestrian track to go to my local supermarket. I encounter many people with prams, using headphones, with dogs (off a leash) or just stopped for a chat who get in my way. Does that bother me? No. I just ring my bell, slow down and wait to get passed. If you want to be a cyclist, and I think that is a great thing to do, just be aware of the issues you have when traveling on main roads and offer the same courtesy to the slower moving users on designated cycle / pedestrian paths.
Her argument sounds like it makes sense but it falls to pieces the more you think about it. She claims that electric bikes should be compared more to the bigger vehicles like cars but cars have extensive safety systems that are mean to protect driver and passengers when accidents occur at speed electric bikes do not. Next electric bikes are not just ridden on public road infrastructure but also in parks and on walkways shared by pedestrians. By the way as a note in Ontario, Canada there are a speed limits/bylaws that limits both manual and electric bikes. The limit is 20km/h.
First of all, I'm from the Netherlands. It's well known that our cycling infrastructure is one of the, if not the best in the world. As someone who has travelled these cycling paths for all his life (31 now), I can say that e-bikes (together with mopeds which have the same speed-limit on cycling paths) generally are more dangerous than regular bicycles. Main reason is, the cycling commuter goes about 14-18 km/h (8.7-11.2 mp/h), whereas the e-bikes and mopeds will usually go about 25 km/h. This is a pretty big difference. Now the UK does not have a cycling infrastructure as good as the Netherlands, as far as I know, the UK is working on this. Maybe for now you might want faster bicycles so you can compare to the faster vehicles on the same road (cars on roads with no separate cycling lanes), but in the future this may be a lot less so as the cycling infrastructure increases. In the Netherlands we also have a separate e-bike category in speed-pedelecs, these can go up to 45 km/h (28mph), but these are not allowed on cycling paths, and require you to have a drivers license for either cars, motorcycles, or mopeds. You are also required to wear a helmet. Also, statistics have proven that accident rates have increased in the last 10 years, because of e-bikes. There are also more ICU admissions in accidents relating to e-bike drivers (because they go so fast). For now, from what I can gather, in the UK, you may want to increase the speed-limit slightly to compensate for the non-separated cycling paths. But as cycling infrastructure continues to grow, it may be good to have it reduced again.
I suppose you don't HAVE to go the top speed. If people are trundling along at 10 mph, then trundle along with them if it's only a short trip. If the path is made more for "slow ride! take it easy!" then that's what you do or pick the road with the cars if you want to go car speeds. On the open and infrequently used sections you can do the full 20 mph or whatever. I've done 25 on shared use paths when everyone has gone home (but still wanted to be wary of the occasional pedestrian), but when they are busy 10-15 is usually max. I do agree though that you have to make allowances for the throttle happy teenagers who make no allowances for road or path conditions, who won't trundle their S pedelec but will try and overtake all the slower cyclists and weave in and out at 28 mph.
The 45 km/h e-bikes go on the bike path same as other cycles here in Denmark, and we don't have no stinkin license plates. From 15-17 you need a moped or higher license, from 18 up, you don't need a license, and many drunk drivers have switched to speed pedelecs after losing their car license. 3rd party insurance is required.
UK badly needs S-class, even if it had slightly more restrictions. This is partly due to poor infrastructure forcing cyclists to mix it with fast motor traffic, but also there's a lot of hills.
I notice in 2023, that there was a huge increase (30%) in cycling fatalities, of whom an astonishing 50% are over the age of 60. It seems that many are pointing the finger at eBikes, especially when ridden by the more elderly, as they can now ride much faster with less effort. It is a sad reality, that as you get older, an accident that might mean just a few bruises to a young person can be much more serious to an older one. Bones are weaker, muscle mass less and powers of recovery reduced. In a somewhat amazing statistic, in 2023 there we fractionally more Dutch cyclists killed per billion km than in the UK. However, we have to be careful on that as Dutch cyclists are, on average, considerably older than in the UK, where cycling is more a sports and leisure pursuit of the young and middle-aged, and not the elderly.
Going that slow you can do that, and even 20MPH is not that fast, but even living here in Fl. where it is legal to go 28MPH you find most people not really going that fast and only when it is safe to, plus when you start going faster than 20MPH you start to really eat up your battery! 20MPH is a safe and good pace! Also when I started e-biking 20 years ago we had a 20 MPH speed limit and now they raised it to 28MPH, but 20MPH was good for me and you could easily get away with doing 22MPH because that is what my bike could do back then!
I built my own e-bike mainly for MTB. It has 2000W, has a throttle and 52 km/h top speed. On rare occasions I ride it on bicycle paths with a similar speed as everyone else and being careful. I encountered many people on regular bikes causing a lot more danger than me (one even crashed into me recently, lol). It's an amazing way of transport in a city, I just wish there was a way for me to legalize it as right now I'm stressed every time I see a cop when I'm riding it.
Cars can go 250kmh. It's all about responsibility. Laws only exist for control over the masses. Whatever you do responsibly is right. If you're on a straight bicycle path with noone around and you slow down at each intersection, nobody, not even the law can say to me or you that what you're doing is bad and irresponsible. But just don't get caught, society will be against you for breaking laws, because that's their morality and there's nothing you can do to convince them you're right, because in their eyes, breaking a law is always wrong, thus, avoid talking about your illegal bike and drive responsible.
Love my electric bike .... it got me cycling again after many years of no longer enjoying it. But I'd like a throttle for safely reasons. Crossing a busy dual carriageway with pedal assist only is no joke. So impressed with how articulate you were throughout the video, I couldn't voice over anywhere near as clearly even with a script.😊
As a lifelong cyclist, your entire argument breaksdown over licencing. If eBikes had to be licenced, numberplates and insurance and most importantly "accountability" on the road, then perhaps yes, restrictions could be lifted. BUT, bikes would have to be kept off hte pavements, out of parks, and ridden on roads or cycleways ONLY. The only way that can be inforced is with licencing.
i made my own with a normal bike and its so much better without restrictions. its a legal 250w motor with a 10ah bottle battery and it moves like the wind....just off the throttle it hits 25 mph if I peddle to I can reach 36 mph with ease.totally agree the motor gets out off fast at traffic lights and gets you out of scrapes. great video.
If it has a throttle its illegal, also technically motors can't be stated as a 250w or 1000w as motors dont work that way they can only be measured in Newton meters of torque. A stated 1000w motor can be well capable of 2000w given the right battery and controller with a bit of statoroid to keep it cooler
@@robertcharlton4277 ilegal smeagal who cares ive drove past tons of police around here and not one give a shit tbh they no its a stupid law and no there's just thousands of ppl using throttles and electric scooters ...its old news pal no one cares
As a recreational exercise rider, I don't go the 20MPH top speed often, but it's good to know the capacity is there in case I need it. The same with the higher assist modes. I stick with 0, 1 and 2 most of the time, but it's good to know 3, 4, and 5 are there in case I'm ever in a jam. I vote in favor of more opinion pieces.
Yes, as a bicyclists and motorcyclist, accelerating your way out of someone's path is a viable option and often the best one! Doing so in a car is almost always a bad idea because the power to weight ratio is much lower. But on an e-bike, you have the motor and possibly a throttle to scoot away past the trouble.
i am totally agreed with you , we should encourage more people to use e-bike instead of car. Sometimes it is a waste of energy or fuel to have just one person inside the car, we should encourage to use more e-bike to commute from one place to another place when it is nearby
I couldn't agree more, i think 22/23mph is ideal. It's bloody dangerous, hitting the limiter while try to get out of a tight spot, ie riding round a parked bus, or keeping with the traffic flow on a roundabout. This is what made me derestrict my old spesh levo with a plantary cog gizmo made by 'planet3' which then foxed the limiter by slowing down the magnet on your rotor, every 3 turns of the wheel the magnet turns once. Which means you can go up to 45mph if you can pedal fast enough. My legs were an invisible blur at about 34mph. Simple but effective. Doesn't void your warranty because you can remove it easily 😉. Recently switched to a haibike, can't fit a planet3 because they don't make on for it. But i can get a VOLspeed v3 for the Yamaha pwx-3 motor. Which will cut off at 28mph with a dynamic mode that spreads the cut off over a wider speed range. None of this would be necessary if the law was changed to somewhere between 20 and 25 mph. And don't get me started on how shitty it is to hit the limiter just as you approach the lip of a jump. 😂 Who do we need to petition to get this law looked at again? MARK HARPER the transport secretary i think 🤔., We aren't in the EU anymore, so should be able to change our laws easier. The law as it stands has persuaded almost every one i know that owns an e-bike to turn to various derestricters. Which make the bikes a bit too fast for many folks.
Love mine. Only had it a few weeks. Here in the States few of our suburban town, cities or counties are very bike friendly so I have been exploring neighborhood streets and greenway bike paths to try to learn ways to get around my community on mine. I also own a motorcycle, car and pickup truck so I am hoping every trip I can do on my electric bike keeps those parked and that hopefully helps to make the planet a better place for all of us. Plus, it's fun to ride too!
everyone here has practically passed the limiter, and it's much more pleasant to drive, most of the time below 35 kph. Max with 250W and 18 -gear mtb is around 50 kph.
Here in the U.S., I ride an ebike with a 500 watt hub motor and cargo bags that I use for shopping. My city provides striped bike lanes on many arterials. This class 2 rated bike has a maximum pedal assist speed of 20 mph. The arterial speed limit is mostly 30 mph so I find that the closing rate for auto traffic is comfortable. My wife has the same. She says that her ebike makes her feel safe in places she would have never ridden her non powered bicycle. I love London and hope to rent an ebike on our next visit. Thank you for posting this video.
Just got my Kuma XO E Bike and you've nailed it, a change in regulation to 20mph or 30kph here in Ireland would be the sweet spot particularly on flat terrain where traditional commuter bikes and there riders generally go faster when up and running leaving plenty of E bikes in the way!
The weight of an electric bike shouldn’t really factor in. The weight of two different riders can be drastically more a factor imo. For instance a small female and a large male. Difference can be well over 100lbs. I’m not in the U.K., but would like to chime in that 20mph is the goldilocks speed for these bikes. It’s not so fast 🐇 a speed that you cannot stop safely, but also reasonable enough a speed to feel that it’s not at a snails 🐌 pace either. And I’ve found that at that speed on a rather warm day, it’s sort of a sweet spot speed (20mph) for cooling.
I agree with one exception. For non-congested areas, 25 mph is closer to the Goldilocks speed. Even though my bike will do 28 mph, I generally ride at a max of 25 mph unless going downhill. When pedestrians are around, then slower is better.
The safest speed to travel on a road is the same speed as the rest of them traffic. Making it law that you must travel a lot slower than other traffic immediately makes you more vulnerable. I believe that e-bikes should have the same speed limits as other vehicles - and decent disk brakes.
You're so right. My motor seems to impede me if I try to push past 15.5. I thought you might address 'chipping' the motor. Is 'acoustic' the right word for a conventional bike? I can understand an acoustic v electric guitar but I cannot accept it when applied to a bike. I'm etymologically over-sensitive, I guess.
Great video. One of the problems here in the US is throttle only riding. People buy an electric bike but become addicted to the throttle and the bicycle becomes a motorcycle. I've seen e bike riders weave around and between baby strollers, elderly citizens with walkers and dogs on leashes. When I want to go faster, I just go out into the roadway and compete with cars. I like to pedal but for some people using the throttle becomes a bad habit.
Yeah - throttles are an odd one. Maybe there should be two classes: 1) Throttle e-bike with no pedals, can only be used on the road 2) Pedal assist, with no throttle - has the same rules as a normal bike
Yeah, I like my throttle, though I use it sparingly because 1) battery range and 2) one of the points of biking in the first place is to get exercise. But for short bursts, the throttle us hella useful. And to follow up on Mr. Techie's question, one of my uses fir the throttle is navigating severe congestion allowing me to focus my energy on "threading the needle" through congestion.
@@mr.techie8565 The people I'm talking about cannot go the same speed. Their BMI prevents that. They ride on foot paths because they can't handle bike paths and bike lanes.
I totally agree everything you mentioned. I got into cycling/e-bike few months now and I feel vulnerable at 15mph limit when most cyclist and cars are trying to overtake me in 20mph road. When I did use 20mph e-bike I felt safer and confident to cycle next to cars and athletic cyclists
I don’t think the limit should be lifted as much as I’d like them too, although 20 mph is a good speed. Although it’s more about the person, not the bike…Too many idiots cycling on unrestricted bikes in cycle lanes. They going far faster then 25/30/35 mph and throttle assisted, and more importantly driven badly in an anti social manner. If they increase the limit above 20 mph…They shouldn’t be able to use cycle paths If you want to go fast on an e bike, buy an electric road bike. People are just buying the wrong bikes
I totally agree. Maybe an enhanced class could be brought in for driver's licence holders over 16. There was a time when mopeds were obliged by law to have pedals, and many of them could barely make 25 mp/h
Indeed... Most electric bike motors have negligible resistance when providing no assistance or when going over their limit. It's just that riding a normal bike at 25 km/h (15.5 mph) by pure muscle power is NOT that easy. Especially if you are used to having assistance...
Faster "normal" e-bikes is not the solution, car traffic should be slowed down in cities for everybody's safety. The 30km/h speed limit in city center in Oslo and Helsinki resulting in nearly zero death of pedestrians speaks for itself! But if you need to go faster in the EU and Switzerland there are speed-pedelecs that has a speed limit of 45km/h. The speed-pedelec needs to have a signalhorn , a brake light and license plate , insurance and a permit ( at least in Sweden) . They are not allowed on bike lanes, they are like the 45km/h mopeds but with pedals :)
It's not the speed, it's the power. 250 watts is not enough. 500 watts should be the limit, which means that a bigger voltage/wattage battery can be fitted to give more range.
Elite cyclist can easily produce 400W over an hour period and over 1000W in short bursts. I'm not elite but I can guarantee you that I can accelerate much quicker than average electric bike on it'a own (and I've done it multiple times).
You've done admirable research, and made very good points. I don't believe the average cyclist can maintain a speed greater than yours, however, unless going downhill. I am puzzled as to when the word "acoustic" came to be applied to bicycles. What?!!
@Darth Tinderalla Only world-class racers can average over 20 mph on a road bike. The average person will never come close to that, let alone in six months.
Great topic. USA has 25 mph speed limit (for cars and everyone else) streets in neighborhoods and downtown urban settings. And we're pushing for speed reductions on many streets following Dutch design leads. Admittedly, if we are pushing to replace cars in all places, then the longer distances and more rural settings should allow for greater speeds for bikes and micromobility. But with the urban spaces trying to keep acoustic mixing with e-bikes in cycleways we should expect to keep speeds low. Ideally, we design bike infrastructure to be wide enough to support faster and slower bike traffic. Also ideally, we set limits (or create proper design) for ALL mobility to be slow enough to keep cycling feeling and being safe for all. Unfortunately, no one has a golden formula for cars + 28 mph e-bikes + fast scooters + 20 mph e-bikes + fast road cyclists + slow utility cyclists + messengers and delivery cyclists moving at money-making speeds. We'll do well to plan for a high volume future and allow for a variety of speeds where we can manage it. 25 kph seems like it's limiting folks in UK from performing longer commutes on e-bikes, they might otherwise make. Can we count on people to use their head, and regulate their speed when it's wise to do so? Speeding car drivers tell us no, but most e-bikers will argue at least give us the same benefit of doubt you currently give motorists to self-regulate. Dutch (and Danish?) street design does have the solution by actually introducing visual cues and traffic design that psychologically induces slowing. BTW, interview Melissa or Chris Bruntlett about this subject if you want to get a planner's point of view on thoughtful bike infrastructure design and why your slow EU e-bike limits might be helping or hindering e-bike adoption in and out of the city. Maybe this starts with a standardized voluntary 28mph, 20mph, 15.5mph selectable limit on all e-bikes for cyclists to quickly set the speed to match their environment. In California, we do allow for 28 mph speed pedalecs, but we then limit them to certain bike infrastructure or to use the road (always still an allowable option here). You cannot legally operate a 28mph capable (Class 3) bike on a Class 1 bike path, even if you go slowly. But owners do operate there. We just use our heads (hopefully) and so far, no bike police are stopping us to see if our bikes are overrated and shouldn't be there.
the dutch absolutely hate the dutch policies on transport and safety. so many rules and regulations and pushing even worse; yet very low death rates already. they almost make it mandatory to not leave the house to prevent future road deaths.
Shocked to hear your speed limit is so slow. It's the opposite here, I'm always getting passed by an electric something or other. One thing I would suggest is NOT being the first vehicle to leave a red light at an intersection. Love the channel seriously contemplating upgrading my "acoustic" bike to electric
That's a good point, but primarily applies to larger metropolitan areas. I'm in a big city and usually the first to go through the intersection on my analog or e-bike. However, I am carefully checking traffic from every direction first. People fly through lights that have been red more than a few seconds here.
American here, NYC to be exact. Good video, I am an ebiker and like to see my global counterparts experiences in others countries. So, definitely appreciate, thank you. Here in NYC we have an Ebike classification I generally agree with. We are broken down into classes for E-Bikes 1, 2 & 3. 1 is pedal assist only with a limit up to 20 MPH. Class 2 are E-bikes with a throttle that cap speed at 25 MPH. Class 3 are pedalic only that reach speeds of 28 MPH. I find this appropriate, but do feel it would be ok to allow class 3’s to hit 28 mph with a throttle. Regarding safety, I agree 15 MPH is actually dangerously low for the Ebike rider and other riders as certain safety situations require the ability of the rider to accelerate out of danger. Regarding our existing laws here in NYC and safety. I feel it is the responsibility of the rider and the micro mobility community to obey laws and ride safely. I do not think it is appropriate to ride 28 mph in public areas such as parks and playgrounds. However, I do think this speed is appropriate when navigating streets. If you are on a road with a 30 mph speed limit. You should be allowed to ride within that limit, it makes it safer for bike riders and those in cars as the flow of traffic is consistent. Of course these rules should be enforced by law enforcement when possible. Start ticketing e bikers and those riding regular bikes ( I have seen plenty of poor examples of those folks going dangerously fast on pedestrian heavy areas as well, always wonder why they get a pass) that ride recklessly with significant fines, and you will see a greater adherence to safety protocols in the micro mobility community. Your analogy regarding cars is super relevant here. My car has the ability to go over 120 mph. I would be a madman to do so, and never would. As a responsible adult I adhere to the speed limit. This is my responsibility. I feel this same thought process should be applied to micro mobility as well. And for those who don’t adhere, make them through enforcement of violations with significant monetary penalties and criminal charges for the more egregious reckless offenders. Anyway, thank you again for making interesting content, be well, be safe!
I bought a model 3.0 from Lectric almost a year ago and it has been a godsend. I would buy another one in a heartbeat. It has been perfect. I work only a mile from home and shopping is about a half a mile away so it is a bit far for walkin but is just a few minutes on an e-bike. I find I feel my car with gas about once every 3 months. I also charge my e-bike off of solar power so I don't even spend money on electricity.
Totally agree, it’s improved my health and only use electric for short breaks. I have a trailer for my dog or shopping. It’s the answer in towns and cities. Just need more off road cycle paths and yes higher legal speed limit.
Fun fact is that ebikes are generally healthier for people than regular unassisted bikes. Why? Because people are much more likely to actually ride the ebike. Most people would be well advised to get an ebike and ride it exclusively in pedal assist mode.
@@wturber this is such an underrated fact Jay! If only more people (that are already thinking about it, but “aren’t sure”) would take the plunge and get one I guarantee they’d say “l wish I’d bought one sooner!”.
well said. i have ridden an electric bike for 2 years. unfortunately, the battery recharge decreased to 10% and now i can't get more than 5 miles on a charge. my gripe is that governments are not requiring companies to buy back their bikes for disposal or refurbishing. so like many bicycles, they'll become another heap of garbage on the planet.
True. I made the mistake of getting one with an internal battery hidden in the frame and when it can no longer be charged then there goes my bike. It would be unridable without the power assist as it weighs a tonne. I never could understand why they would make an electric bike and then limit the speed so drastically. Ordinary road bike users where leaving me in the dust. I bought a manual road bike for less than half the cost of my e-bike and I found it much faster and incredibly light. I wouldn't buy another.
Absolutely!! On my almost daily commute from Sheffield into the Peak district, on the up hill sections I'm limited to the assisted speed of 15.5mph, but I can quite easily and legally pedal downhill at 30mph, which is where because of the relatively low gearing I "spin out". and with q fair wind, often, again quite legally freewheel at 38mph. The brakes on my Kona are equal to if not better than on my VW! Keep up the good work, and stay safe
Absolutely. My theory is that some desk jockey told a cyclist on a pushbike to go out and ride for an hour. When he got back he had ridden 15 miles. Not understanding the concept of average speed, they made that the top speed. I can’t see any other logical explanation for the ludicrous European limit. My bike is not limited, and drawing 200w, I tend to cruise on the flat at around 20mph, so the Yanks seem to have got it about right. For riding on asphalt, I don’t really have an issue with the wattage limit. Higher watt usage drains one’s battery too quickly. 350w would be an ok limit, so that one can bump it up on very steep hills, but most highway cycling is done at between 100-200w The motors on UK bikes are identical to those on US bikes… it is just software governing the limits, so updating existing bikes would not be that difficult. Until the big bike manufacturers make a concerted case for a more sensible limit, it won’t change. The consumer needs to start demanding a product that is fit for purpose, and they will force the necessary change.
In Brexit units 45kph is around 28mph. Way more sensible. It would be great if a study was done on the Danish experience. I’m sure the safety issues would be found to be negligible. It might help spread some sense through the rest of the EU. I find 30-35kph is a happy compromise between speed and range. It certainly does not feel fast. Coasting down a hill will typically get an unassisted rider 50kph. Mind you, the Danes would not know that, considering the highest point in Denmark is that speed bump near the primary school in Copenhagen. 😄
@@etiennemuller1 Danes have wind! Sometimes it's even behind them. Also, Denmark is full of separated bike lanes where the 45kmh bikes also travel, so I'm not sure how useful any study would be to a country without that infrastructure.
@bugsygoo …You are so lucky. I’m in Ireland, and here the wind is always in my face. Our cities, although small, are not well designed for bikes. One more or less needs to mix it up with the traffic. A little extra speed, and acceleration, can be helpful in traffic. I mostly ride in rural countryside. The roads are hilly and winding, great for eBiking. Traffic is not excessive, but with our winding roads one has to be very aware of what is approaching from behind. I find high visibility clothing and helmet help, and a decent mirror is worth gold. Cycling in general is very popular here, so drivers are on the lookout, which helps too. I am careful approaching, and polite, to pedestrians. I also consider drivers companions on the road, rather than contenders for the space. We are all ambassadors when we take to the highways and trails… If we want concessions, we need to bear this in mind. Bad attitude from bikers discredit us all. Last time the Danes were here, they were not really welcomed with open arms. They took all out gold, and some of our women. We are getting our gold back though, one euro at a time, from our Scandinavian tourists.🙂 Seriously though, you should come to Ireland for a cycle tour. It’s fantastic countryside for biking, especially the west. Bring an umbrella.
@@etiennemuller1 Ireland is high on the list of travel destinations. I'm not sure about cycling through all that rain, though. I might prefer to watch the cyclists while downing one or two pints of Guinness.
Thank you for this!!! I've owned E bikes for over 20 years the discussion on electric bikes usually falls to complaints of cheating,laziness ECT but I've been obsessed with them so long now!18mph is what we need as it keeps you constant going up hills you don't drop to 10mph as with the 15.5 regulations there is less frustration from car drivers as they are not held up so long behind you!! I think there definitely needs to be a Electric bike Zsar!Someone to lobby the Government and I can think of no better Candidate than you young lady!haha! You are a breath of fresh air! This was an amazing Video!We need more representation and as a daily commuter I'm hoping this happens soon as it's getting more and more dangerous out there on the roads!something needs to be done!Once again Thankyou!🚴💨👍
Yeah but tell ask them if they own a car or motor bike and going to work in it. One person in a car, is a waste and it takes up so much space on the road. Motor bikes are better but again are they not cheating, same with the car lol.
The increase in velocity from 15.5mph to 20mph is roughly 30% but the increase in kinetic energy is about 60%. Kinetic energy increases with the velocity squared.
One of the benefits of an E-Bike is that you still get some exercise. My average speed is around 15 mph so half the time I am not using the boost. I tend to use it most on steep hills and into headwinds when I am doing less than 15mph. If you upped it to 750 watts and 20 mph then you would get no exercise at all. In that case why even bother with an ebike why not just have electric mopeds? The only reason for upping the limit is to make e-cargo bikes more effective IMHO.
Just because you have 750 watts doesn't mean you always use it. My ebike has 750 watts, but my typical use is between 250-500 watts. I only go full power accelerating through intersections (nice so you clear the intersection fast on left turns without irritating drivers who are in a senseless rush) or going up steep/short hills. I've gotten plenty of exercise while putting in over 12,000 miles on my 750 watt ebike. I'm always working even with assist. I'm just going faster and getting home earlier with assist. So not as much work if I rode an unassisted bike and took 50% longer, but far more exercise than if I had driven. And I've monitored with my smart watch heart rate monitor while doing this - and watched as my resting hear rated dropped from about 60 bpm to below 50 bpm after a few months commuting (32 miles round trip) on my e-bike.
Our council have just invested £75,000,000 in a new bike path between Eastbourne and Lewes but I don’t have time to ride it at 15mph ! I’ve got to be there quickly
Legislators main role in the UK is to keep joe average under the thumb first and foremost not to make us feel free and empowered! Facts , data and logic don’t really come into the equation! Hopefully your words will reach someone willing to apply common sense and actually do what we pay them to do which is to assist us and not hinder our lives!! Great video 👍
What a really well put together video, and you are totally correct, I ride a road bike most of the time but also have an E-MTB for off road, however on the road sections when the E bike tops out at 15mph I feel so vulnerable and totally in the way, an extra 5mph would make such a huge difference being able to get through road sections faster, and as you rightly say there are much faster moving objects on the road that are far more dangerous than a bike doing 20mph, one can only hope the video is recognised by the government and department of transport, the E bike really should be the saviour for city commuting and not just an in fashion leisure bike.
Couple points UK law is 250watt motor correct but that’s at continuous not peak every UK street legal 250 watt motors peaks at much higher power levels also 15.5. Mph is fast enough I see your a Young fit rider I’m 73 I can easily go faster on the flat on my ebike it makes you fitter I feel it’s a good compromise between assistance when you need it and effort you put in certainly has improved my fitness .There are more powerful ebikes like the Sur Ron which are capable of 50 mph but to be legal you’ll need to register with DVLA get insurance and road tax.
It's not even the watts that matter, it's the torque. Modern motors can squeeze 90Nm of torque out of a 250W continuous rated motor which will easily sail you up to 40kmh if unrestricted.
"also 15.5. Mph is fast enough" It just _isn't._ But there's nothing to stop you from continuing to ride at a speed you're happy with, on a bike capable of a few mph more.
@@markepps3511 motors are like speakers, a speaker may have a watts limit, it's the amplifier that makes the watts, a 100w speaker will put out the same volume on a 20w amp as a 30w speaker, given that both examples are a similar size and efficiency. speakers are tested at 1 watt with mic 1 metre distance for how loud they play in dB, 90 dB being the average for larger speakers, whereas bookshelf speakers will be not as loud with the same input level. now back to ebike motors, the so called 250w motor would be getting 350w doing 40 kph, it's the controller that feeds the voltage into the motor, more volts = more watts
Interesting arguements in favour of increased speed limit, I agree ebikes are life changing, but I disagree that we need to up the speed limit. I think it's better to reduce vehicle speed. I've cycled in the Netherlands, where large amounts of people, of all abilities cycle together, and the flow is much better when everyone is going roughly the same speed, and they have excellent infrastructure, much of it segregated. I agree on commute routes it'd be great to up the speed, but not on shared paths. I also hate wearing helmets, so I wouldn't want to see that made mandatory. Safety means no helmet is necessary. The beauty of an ebike is stop start, strain reduction, and load carrying, not top speed.
Helmets should be mandatory, maybe you need a spell in A&E to witness the head trauma and death caused by idiots too stupid to wear one or dont like helmet hair
When the rules were set the Italian scooter manu's (Piaggio mostly) lobbied hard to limit the speed of electric bicycles - they worried about losing sales.... I'd look at the environmental benefits over fossil motorcycles of increasing peddle assist vehicles in urban environments if I wanted to lobby for change.
Fully agree, in the city we should all be traveling at 20MPH/30km/h , bikes and cars. In exchange for the increased speed cutoff, they should make mandatory, always-on lights, directly connected to the battery. DRL+low beam+rear light. PS I strongly doubt there is any difference in stopping distance between acoustic and electric bikes: brakes are quite powerful and the limit is given by the rear wheel lifting, which in turn is connected to weight distribution, which may be better on mid-drive e-bikes.
From what I've seen of discussions in relation to cars the acceleration (deceleration) at maximum braking effort is about twice that of the acceleration. This is a useful guide as many bicycles in the past have had woeful brakes - particularly in the wet. People who have ridden a lot will be aware of the limitations. I used to daily commute 18km (each way) in Perth in 35 minutes on an "acoustic" bike. The route mostly avoided traffic lights and took advantage of parallel back streets and dedicated cycle paths (rarely shared with pedestrians). To average 30km/h means achieving above 45km/h at times. I didn't have disc brakes and there were a few times not just in wet weather where the braking was inadequate. In my view the EAPC rules (UK) are inadequate. I agree that 15.5mph is too slow BUT to increase that the requirements should include minimum braking distance / capacity (allowing for rider and maximum load), speedometer and lights (which can be easily fitted and shouldn't need to be removed all the time for charging like the lights on non e-bikes). In terms of maximum speed I would say 30mph is too high in electric only mode, probably somewhere between 20 and 25mph should satisfy most people, most of the time. Where I do see a problem is in mixed cycle and pedestrian traffic. Where I live the local quayside has become a racetrack with cyclists going far too fast given the number of pedestrians that are around. If I ride along that section with my "acoustic" bike I stick to walking pace (which isn't easy when you have cleats). I'm of two minds over helmets. The studies that have been done on bicycle helmets do not appear to be as rigorous as those for motorcycle helmets. I personally feel "naked" if I'm not wearing a helmet (very lightweight racing style) but I can am also aware of their quite limited protection. I've had some quite serious bike accidents when I was younger - pre-helmet laws in Australia but only one recently. I had a head on collision with another cyclist where we were both doing well over 40km/h - he overtook a couple of cyclists and didn't see me on a cycle path. It could have been far worse.
Your proposal seems sensible to me. BTW, the 10% allowance seems to be an urban myth! I did the "speed awareness" course very recently, to avoid a speeding offense. One of the others there was busted for doing 22 in a 20mph zone.
I fully agree with your speed limit recommendation. I only ride a normal mountain bike, and I get up to 20 on that, so it's dumb that ebikes cant go as fast!
@Ed Straker Most designs don't have motor resistance. Only direct drive hub motors do, and it really isn't that much. Weight isn't really a limiting factor on level ground. Though its a big deal on any incline.
@Ed Straker I know of a number of people who go fast with lightweight low power e-bikes. They are tuned for assist at higher speeds. These are the guys that go 20+ on their own normally. So they use the extra boost to help with hills, headwinds, and up hills - just like everyone else - but at higher speeds because they are more fit. They use small, geared motor hubs with higher winds/gears. They often just put the battery in a backpack with a quick release connect in case of a spill. It keeps the bike handling more normally and looks cleaner. One of the cool things about the ebike concept is how adaptable it is to different unique needs.
Absolutely spot on with the suggested 20mph and the benefits of encouraging people out of cars and onto bikes. I felt a sitting duck on the 30mph roads in my town when I tried an upright ebike recently. Not so on my "acoustic" road bike. 20mph would be far better.
Though I do want higher limit, I think it would do worse for holding up traffic, at 15 they can get around you easily with a small gap in oncoming traffic, but the faster you are going, the bigger gap they need to be able to pass, and can end up stuck behind for longer causing more traffic build up
@@Fromatic i see where you are coming from. I think there is added danger in a long overtake however urban roads are best with a 20mph limit, so no overtaking should be necessary. Also the goal is to replace as many car journeys as possible thereby reducing traffic. I don't think the ebikes would cause more traffic buildup at 20mph than at 15.
@@crunchysaviour that would work, 20mph limit so bikes and traffic move together on urban roads that are both too narrow and too busy for cars to pass, a non issue everywhere else. And in any case the drivers need to calm down, as on those same roads when they're busy, the driver gets worked up and might pass in a rage for being held up, only for you to catch them up again while they're sat at the next traffic lights
NYC Brooklyn resident here. I ride the volcon brat max potential speed of 28 mpg, and I still think ebikes should go faster. Around 60 mpg would be nice. It would allow quicker acceleration around double parked cars / hazards and hopefully change the mindset of car drivers from being "oh now I'm stuck behind a bike" to "oh I'm behind a bike that can easily keep up and if there's a bike lane I could easily pass them ".
As an Americano, I'll tell you that my nearby residential streets have a speed limit of 20mph/32kmph with a few areas having a maximum of 25mph/40kmph and Class 1 and 2 bikes are just fine for most of my town. The areas that have higher speed limits also have separated multi-use paths that allow cyclists to avoid faster traffic but that might just be in my area
You have to be careful equating e-bikes to cars. You open the door to the mandatory helmet, insurance and road tax (even though road tax doesn't exist anymore) brigade. Btw I do agree that the limit in the UK should be raised to 25mph.
I dont know if they exist in the UK, but in most european countries you can buy speed-pedelecs which provide electrical assistance up to 45 km/h and for which registration, insurance and helmet are mandatory. The downside is that they are banned from cycling paths in most countries with Belgium as a main exception. Maybe that's why Belgium is the only country where this kind of e-bike is successfull. I think it should be discussed in other countries too under which conditions speed-pedelecs could be allowed on cycling paths.
@@Gi11th speed-pedelecs are widely popular in Switzerland, where you can also ride them legally on cycling paths. I ride a 45 kph (28mph) Stromer with a 500w hub motor since 2016 and am extremely happy with it. When i ride my other e-bike, an e-mtb with the 25 kph limit it gets really boring in the city, but of course alright in the hills&mountains. Due to the regulations in neighbour countries it is totally unattractive to use the fast e-bike abroad on holidays.
@@johnsullivan7230 Vehicle Excise Duty exists. It goes into the general taxation pot and is based on vehicle emissions. It doesn't contribute to road maintenance directly. Road tax did contribute to road maintenance but was abolished in 1937.
Good rant. I agree with you 100%. I ride an e-bike with a 750 W motor, a twist throttle, and a 20+ top speed which is about perfect for what I want to do with it. It moves me along nicely, but not so fast that it's dangerous. Believe me, 30-40 mph on an e-bike on city streets is unwise and should be regulated, but the European limits on e-bikes are pretty ridiculous.
I've unlocked my bike to above 15.5mph. Now I can hit 21mph and it feels far safer even with just that extra 5mph on top. I think the fear is that there are people with DIY e-bikes which are capable of 40/50mph and someone will get hurt or killed on one of those things and they're a nuisance on the roads
"Acoustic" bike. My search engine revealed it to be a slang reference used by trendies. 250 Watt may be the legal limit for a UK ebike, but how often is that limit observed or enforced? Just look at the parade of ebikes outside any fast food takeaway.
Most residential areas in the US have a speed limit of 20 mph, which is the limit of Class 1 ebikes (Pedal-assist only), and Class 2 ebikes ( Pedal-assist or throttle). Class 3 ebikes (Pedal assist only) have a speed limit of 28 mph. Class 3 ebikes have different regulation in different States. Some States consider them to be a Motor vehicles, others don't.
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As a electric bike rider I agree with the 20mph limit but what I fail to understand is why you plug scooters that are after all illegal
Class 3 bikes are allowed up to 28 mph.
@@mickrowe1600 I don't agree with an increase to 20mph limit. E-bikes require no licence, so effectively you can get a teenager on an E-bike going down the street at 20mph. What Electroheads failed to mention in the maths is that going from 15mph to 20mph increases your impact energy(damage if in an accident) by 77%. Cars are allowed to go faster because they have a license to prove that they past the safety test of driving at such speeds. It might be nicer for responsible adults to go a little faster but it is less safe for kids. E-bikes are designed to make cycling easier. It's not an excuse to go beyond your capabilities without a license. Those who want to go faster should get a license to prove that they can do so safely, like the rest of the responsible adult population.
Absolutely agree, I got an e-bike when Arthritis set in in my knees, I used to ride a Mountain bike and a road bike up until that point and still do socially, I mainly use the ebike as a commuter.
The change to the eBike was so weird, on the other bikes I would average 15 to 17 mph on a ride which means I would be travelling at 20+mph to get that average up after all the stops for junctions and traffic lights etc, on the eBike when I hit that 15.5mph and the bike stops assisting even in the ECO mode which I generally use to extend my range, it just feels like your are going up hill with two flat tyres, you are still doing 15.5mph but feels so wrong, I thought I would get used to it but after nearly three years I have not, and with that pretty much being your max speed the average is generally down to 10 to 12 mph or less.
So I agree and always have done 18 to 20mph limit would be more sensible on the road, however I think it should be 8mph on a none segregated shared cycle/pedestrian pavement.
I personally would pay a road tax for the bike, towards improvements for cyclists, but the problem with that is it would put too many people off cycling when we need to be get more in the saddle.
I think you should, but also add a noise maker pointing in front.
As a rural e-bike commuter, I'm with you completely. And here's the main reason why.
The average dog can sustain a speed of 19mph.
Anyone who's cycled in the countryside will understand. It's really not a joke.
Dogs can exceed 30mph. That's the legal limit in many rural areas ;)
Also they chase bikes, cars, horses, cows.
It's instinct. They had it ever since they were wolves chasing buffalo.
When cased by doggos don't speed up, slow down. Even stop for a moment, Show them you're not pray, show you're not scared. Don't scream. Talk. Firmly, calmly. 99% of the time they will stop and walk the other way mumbling doggo swears.
1% of the time you can use a pepper spray for the really dummy ones. It will hurt, hurt a lot but the doggo might learn a valuable lesson and live longer.
Don't puff your own face, it will end in tears.
I love animals, never hit or sprayed any except once, a really dumb sheppard that had his pack behind him. Once in almost 40 years of cycling and walking the wild and the country side.
And when I'm barked at and chased by dogs while cycling, my *only* fear is for the dog. If it bites my tire his teeth are gone, maybe the jaw, maybe his skull or if it gets hit by a car while fixating on me.
@ Unfortunately, pepper spray (even as an animal deterrent) is illegal in Britain.
The 19 mph speed for dogs comes from a RUclips source about escaping dogs, and seems about right as far as I can tell from observation. That's about the speed they start to struggle. Though admittedly that's hardly a definitive source.
@@angharadhafod we're talking about Welsh Corgi here, right? :)
I was looking at the speedometer and at the pooch with my own eyes not on YT when I noted that speed.
And that was a pooch not a bred whippet or hound.
And if you live on the island you really have less to worry. Doggos there are far less berserk than here on the continent.
Slow and say something to hurt their ego. It will suffice.
Edit: the car's speedometer*
Order a 1000 watt kit and make sure to display the 250 watt class sticker🤓
But as an urban cyclists living in the Netherlands, i don't think having a horde of exited kids, drunk tourists & hazy elderly people speeding trough the city at 30 miles an hour is a good idea .
Trivia: The 20 mph limit in the US was chosen because that is an average speed an athletic person can ride a bike.
I live in Romania, EU here as well, but the jungle/wild part of it, no one really enforces that ebike speed limit regulation (as many other rules as well), the infrastructure is almost non-existent, so yeah, I ride my ebike derestricted and indeed, found out that the average speed I consistently have during my commutes and whatnot is around 32 km/h, so that 20mph indeed. Ofc, I also have the advantage of unlimited assistance for peak scenarios when I am above that, but I have to admit I’d really be less inclined to derestrict if the limit here was similar to the one across the ocean.
But there are few of them in US right? 42% are obese.
That's coming down soon to match ours.
Stupid laws made by stupid people
@@badabing8884 yeah but their average speed is based purely on downhill and flat, as they are obviously incapable of going up hills
Totally agree! 15.5 mph is a hopelessly low limit for most cylists. I own a lighter e-bike and can easily cruise at 17 mph on the flat but with the current limit, I'd struggle with the heavier e-bikes. Incidentally, I'm 74yrs old and find my e-bike a great help on the hills but sometimes want a faster speed on the flat.
"I own a lighter e-bike and can easily cruise at 17 mph on the flat"
Yep, and that fact makes the whole idea of cutting off motor support after an arbitrary speed "limit", utterly preposterous and logically indefensible.
Just buy a Chinese ebike and you can set the speed to whatever you want. I set mine to 20mph. Got overtaken by another ebike the other day. He must have been going 25mph, so there's many people who do not put up with these dumb UK laws.
That’s awesome you’re still out riding at 74 God Bless. I’m 56 and go 30-50+ miles everytime I take my Ebike out. And I always peddle with it never throttle only. Just to me seems more fun that way!! Hopefully I’ll still be riding at 74 and you when you’re 92. 18 years away. Lol 👍🏼👍🏼
@@jakereal3604 Cheers Jake. I've always exercised, with either running or cycling, so hope I can keep going for a few more years!
You can pedal to go faster.
In Denmark we are able to buy what is named a "Pedelec", which may ride up to 45 km/h. You must use lights at all times on those, and be at least 18.
In Netherlands to but also registration plate, insurance, road tax , helmet
Very sensible. Here in the UK a child of 14 can ride an eBike. Raising the speed limit of these machines to 20mph must be accompanied by an increase in age limit. Currently anyone 16 or over can ride a 49cc moped so that would be a good starting point. Some form of mandatory training similar to the cycling proficiency test in also needed.
@@damnbrosky same in the UK you can use any size as long as you have registration plate, insurance, road tax , helmet and ofc a driving licence.
Just few peeps in UK have a speed pedelecs because of the cost and insurance and limited to roads only. Might as well get an electric moped.
@@badabing8884 de-restrict your already powerful 25km/h limited ebike. I bought a Flyer Upstreet 2 folding bike, very premium, belt drive, it doesn't make sense for this thing to only drive 25km/h. So now I commute at double the legal speed 50km/h, 28km to and from work. It's also a lease paid by my job so if it breaks it won't hurt my wallet. After a few months of driving like this I finally bought a helmet.
I purchased my first e-cycle way back in 2010. However, I've now given up cycling (I'm now 69 yrs old) because where I live in NW England, there are basically no cycle lanes, so I no longer feel safe on the road. We require more cycle lanes here in the UK
Oh move to Denmark then! As now 76 I still uses bikes and we have a lot of lanes only for bikes, also Express lanes crossing Cph. with lights optimized for bikes! And raised to separate them from a road! We have bridges crossing the harbor only for walkers and bikes also, and some following a motorway, crossing water!
I dissagree...I am an cucler and driver also.we don't need to spend million and billions of $ for that shity bike lanes!the curent roads can sustain all kind of trafic including bikes...we are not that special you know?
We only need to respect ourselfs in the trafic...and sadly I may say that bikers are not far away than drivers when it comes to respect...a lot of biker don't respect traffic signs or pedestrial but we want to have special lanes paid by them
@CristyMc-v4r I'm assuming that as you're mentioning $$$, you perhaps live in the USA? UK roads tend to be a lot narrower than roads in the USA. Unfortunately, due to health problems, I now use a mobility scooter to get around. This comes with a whole new set of problems. A UK road legal mobility scooter/electric wheelchair has a maximum speed of 8 mph, and cannot use the cycle lanes. When using the pavement, maximum speed is 4 mph. A lot of other road users (cars, wagons, cyclists, bikers, tractors, etc), have no respect for mobility scooter (and wheelchair) users. They consider mobility scooters/electric wheelchairs ought to be banned from using the roads. I avoid going on the road as it is definitely safe, but there are a lot of roads (country B & C roads especially ) that have no pavements, so have no other alternative
but to travel on the road. Now I feel even more vulnerable when on the road, than I used to feel when I was cycling.
You make a very valid point. I’m in my 50s and have an electric bike. I built it myself and gave it a higher spec due to mainly riding off road. On the occasion’s that I’m on road , I dial it down and it’s not unreasonable to think there could be a crossover,even if it meant having a test of some kind to validate the use of it. Oh and by the way, as an engineer and musician, the use of the word ,mechanical instead of acoustic makes more logical sense,as “acoustic,”references sound and resonance. Excellent video, keep it up.
Mechanical bikes definitely have a totally different sound. None of that electric motor noise.
Was also wondering about the use of the phrase "acoustic bike"
Pretty sure it's just a playful reference to electric and acoustic guitars.
Electric assistance or
Push bike..
Call them "muscle bikes" lol
In the UK, it makes sense to raise the e-bike assistance limit to 20mph, as most urban areas are adopting a 20mph limit for their streets.
This 20 mph speed limit is the same limit I'm suggesting for e-scooters.
At least 50mph
That makes sense if they keep only to the streets. The issue is Bikes (electric or not) ride everywhere :) Plus doesn't require roud rules examination.
@@simm0l It may be sensible to add speed limits to bike lanes. But I suspect fit riders will object to limits below 20mph.
agreed, 15.5mph is stupidly restrictive. Nanny state influence.
Electric bikes are the answer to the congestion problem
Some cites are just not built foe ebikes weather shite infrastructure or just too far of a distance
Plus there is more of an issue of security
@@Matanumi "Some cites are just not built foe ebikes weather shite infrastructure or just too far of a distance"
So what? If you can ride a bike somewhere - and in reality you can ride them _everywhere_ - that automatically means you can also ride e-bikes.
Micromobility in general, but we need the infrastructure.
That's debatable. It depends on if there are cycle lanes or the roads are wide enough. In my area ANY bike can cause traffic to back up right down the road. It's nothing unusual to see 10-20 cars backed up behind a bike. It not only causes congestion but those vehicles produce a lot more emissions than if they had a clear road. I use an electric bike every day to go to my local town about 8 miles away and try as much as possible to avoid the main roads.
@@Matanumi If the Netherlands and Denmark can be full of bikes, why can't British cities? Which city has worse weather than them? There is no such thing as bad weather for cycling, just the wrong clothes. Ask a Dane. It's true that the infrastructure isn't there. So, what? Do you just give up and continue building crazy expensive, inefficient infrastructure for cars? Or do you simply start building infrastructure for bikes? Not hard!
Absolutely spot on. The rules of the road are ALL due to motorists. Cyclists are not the problem. Most importantly, the current laws have been promulgated by motorists, not cyclists. Auto manufacturers are scared shitless of cycles, this is why the laws are designed to keep e-bikes to a minimum speed, so that they can continue to sell killer cars - deadly cars - they do not want any limits imposed on their size, power, speed...
I commute everyday on "Acoustic" bike (which I love by the way) but there are days when it's wet, windy, or your not feeling particularly fit and the very good point you made regarding turning up to work a bit sweaty and having to do the 5 minute cool down walk, when I think an electric bike would be nice at this point... My only resistance to buying one is literally, the "resistance" once you reach the artificial power assist limit.
I fully agree with you Eilis and I think Electroheads should start getting a petition up to up the speed limit on electric bikes. I'd sign it.
up the power,15mph is enough
Up the speed limit to 20. Pushbikes are faster, it does not feel as safe to be unable to keep pace with road traffic in 30 or even 20 mph zones.
Oh yeah I'd totally sign the petition btw! Yes!
@@winniepeg2020 it's not enough. 20mph is safer in order to keep up with other traffic and conventional cycles like Eilis said in this video.
@@winniepeg2020 Yep - being able to carry more is more useful to me than going faster.
No matter how fast bikes are, car drivers will always try to overtake, even though we overtake them more often than not... We need secure bike parking in Cities es also
Ha yes I do think many drivers just like to prove a point in the take over
@@Electroheads yes it happens a lot in 20mph zones, even when I'm doing 22 on my normal bike
Yep you can be doing 28 in a 30 zone on a bike and a car will try and overtake.
@@mintywebb its safer to have a bike behind a car than in front . this is Especially true from truckers that can Skid for hundreds of feet after slamming the brakes .
Cars need hard limiters in the city.
Also in the US there is class 3 ebikes in some states that let you go up to 28mph on petal assistance.
I guess that they call that "flower power".
There are S-Pedelecs in Germany, which are capped much higher. Nur they are not classified as bikes, they are classified as small motorcycles (Moped). So a licenseplate to prove the mandatory insurance is needed and no use of bikelanes unless especially allowed.
To be clear, each state (and sometimes individual municipalities) has its own e-bike laws. I think 38 states have now adopted some form of the 3 class system promoted by People for Bikes. So it is pretty common, but not quite universal.
In at least a few states, class 2 and 3 e-bikes are not allowed on bikeways. They are allowed only on roadways that allow cars.
We also have pedelecs in Belgium which can go 45kph, the bikes have a small number plate on the rear and they have extra regulations.
Absolutely agree, it’s my main issue with current ebike regulations too. Many people just don’t/can’t understand the big safety/security difference between 16 and 20 MPH on a bike in urban traffic. You get overtaken a lot more in stop/start traffic at 16 (25kph) than you do at 20. Reducing passes, lowers the potential for being clipped, or pushed into parked cars. 20 is still a long way from moped speeds, which I’m not advocating for, but is far safer than 16.
Yup, that's my biggest gripe with commuting on ebike, not fast enough to merge safely with traffic. 35kmh/22mph should be the limit. Once my warranty runs out I'm fitting a volspeed v4.
You make some very good points, yes please lets get that limit up to 20mph. One thing what car is only 1000Kg ? cars are now about 1500Kg upwards, and if it's a hybrid or electric it's heavier. And where can you buy a Ebike a low as 15Kg ? most are about 25Kg.
Definitely agree. I bought a cheap 250w Chinese ebike last summer and it has absolutely changed my life. But of course it could be better. 750w, a 20mph speed limit and around 50nm of torque (I live in the Outer Hebrides, which is not the flattest topography in the world) would be smarter, safer and, quite frankly, better.
Bosch motors are 250w continuous but up to 850w peak, so plenty powerful enough, their high speed versions do 28mph but are still rated at 250w, up to 85nm torque.
@@ratbert1 indeed the whole 250watt max is none issue, there are many 85nm, 90nm and even 100nm models around as long as they follow the 25km/h drop off point. i own a 80nm and 85nm ebikes and almost never use more than 50% of their power.
@@ratbert1 I'd say the 25kph cut-off is a bigger issue than the power limit in most situations (assuming you're not riding a loaded cargo bike up a 10% gradient for example). That cut-off affects (almost) everyone, everywhere.
I also bought a Chinese ebike but mine is 500W and goes 20mph. 20mph is about ideal.
@@ratbert1 The problem with Bosch is they make it difficult to unrestrict the motor. You're better off avoiding Bosch and going for a Chinese make as they will allow you to unrestrict it.
Eilis for transport secretary! 👍🏻
Yes!
Definitely best presentation for the 20mph argument I have seen well done 👏
For anything really
E-bikes are part of the solution and way forward, just like acoustic bikes. But what would help maybe even more is to improve your infrastructure for cyclists. This will also give space for those who want to go faster, with our without e-assist, and make it much safer for all. Enjoy your ride!
I went turkey recently and its insane they literally have an entire footpath made specially for bicycles and electric bikes and they literally just rent out electric bikes. Its insane a country like the UK doesnt have any of that but worst of all it's illegal to own one for some reason unless you get it from one of the designated e bikes
dutch? cuz at the starts shes saying that its hard to commute on a standard bicycle, and thats something i as a dutch person simply cannot understand.
@@supersonic4863Parts of the UK have a lot of very steep hills. Take Bristol for example, and on a ride up to Cliveden, you will emerge in a ball of sweat on a moderately warm day. The same is true where I live in the Cotswolds. However, if you go to Oxford, or Cambridge, which are essentially flat and have a lot of bicycles, then it is not such an issue. The same is true of much of London, although that is a much larger place, so distances are longer.
For me the joy of ebikes comes from riding them slowly but having that extra power beside you is very nice specially at traffic lights and signs. And don't forget it's a bicycle after all if you get thrown around it's going to hurt.
I use my road bike to get around London and I overtake a few e bikes while going at 25-30kph so I think I understand. Going slower than traffic on my bike sometimes feels dangerous and because e bikes are heavier, you end up doing more work to keep up once the motor caps off which defeats the point of the electronic assistance imo.
bought a used roadbike for £150, rrp was £600, ebikes, at £600+ can't keep up can't do the range. Paying more for less range seems like a scam.
I like the idea of hill assist here in Wales but i'd forever be in eco mode for fear of running flat, and don't fancy hulling a 20 kg bike up a hill.
You can hear the passion in your voice and I 100% agree. 20mph is perfectly safe for an ebike and makes it a more attractive prospect.
Yes! Completely agree. We're a bit better off here in Canada with Max speed limited to 18.5mph (30kmh) and 500W Max power. It makes a heck of a difference going up steep hills...I would much prefer upping the power to 750W with 20mph. Many manufacturers have models with 1000W.
In the USA I've heard that no matter the stated size of the motor it has to be LIMITED (electronically) to 750 watts. hence the 1000wat motors can be sold as it is the Buyers responsibility to get a controller that limits its power input.
@@daniellow426 Unless you are riding a cargo bike, 750 or1000 W is a total overkill. It is no longer an ebike but an escooter that needs insurance and should be treated as a motorbike.
@@th5841I can cycle 22mph on the flat a 750w motor goes 28mph
On a Fatbike with fat tires and with dual batteries weighing 225lbs then you need 750w + other wise you will just walk hills
@@ihavetowait90daystochangem74 28mph/45km/h is moped speed. It doesn't belong on cycle tracks or -lanes.
Compared to 15.5/25, 28/45 has a kinetic energy 3.3 times more. Then you, in addition, must multiply with the weight ratio between the fatbike and an ordinary bike. All in all you end up with a no go for these kinds of bikes being categorized as bicycles... in the rest of the world.
Even increasing an ordinary ebike's max speed from 25 to 30 km/h gives an increased kinetic energy of 44%.
For most people 25km/h is an normal cruising speed. On a racing bike 35 (22 ) was my cruising speed (not anymore). So if you want to, and you are able to go faster, use a racing bike (and get hated by the rest of bikers if you don't restrict yourself).
I’ve got an ebike at 52v 1500w, never gotten a ticket. Top speed of 70kmh. You just have to abide road rules and not drive like a hooligan in town and nobody really cares. I’m in Canada too btw
Totally agree with you . On a business trip to California and zipping around on a hired e-bike at 20 +mph assisted is the way it should be on my Cube back home . Great points made , hopefully they will see sense as it’s a long overdue much needed upgrade to the regs.great videos , I’m subscribing now !
If you want to travel at more than 15 mph on a bike. Then just buy a moped.
I am 63 years old, live in Canada and commute 36km daily. My Bosch-powered class 1 e-bike tops out at 32km. I regularly exceed that on a level road by just pedaling harder… no problem. I think 32km is a realistic speed limit, so agree completely that these speed limits need to be reviewed in the UK/Europe; but also to ban throttle e-bikes (classes 2 and 3) from using bike lanes.
Absolutely, throttle bikes need to be considered as a Moped
Nah, the 25 kph limit is fine. When you share cycle paths with unmotorised children and senior citizens, it's just safer for everybody. There is a second class called "S-pedelec", that goes up to 45 kph and is banned from cyclepaths. You need a helmet, insurance and a license plate, but if you have the kind of commute that goes along a lot of empty countryside, that would be the bike for you.
I totally agree. Even if we kept the same speed limit but got allowed to have bigger motors it would be great as well. I am a big guy and working in construction. I drive around 25miles per day in and out of London. I also carry a toolbag which weights 20kg. Its a real struggle sometimes especially on a hill and i can feel the pain of the 250w motor trying to push a mixed load of 150kg up a hill. 😂😂😂
Absolutely agree, motor size dosent matter when a a speed limit is in place. I have had a 250w bike about 12 years ago, it was weak and didn't offer any assistance upo hills because the bike weighed 35kg, that coupled with a 36v battery that only lasted a year. in my opinion 1000w 48v bike is just right as long as its coupled with hydraulic brakes. 20mph should be the limit 15 is just dangerous in some situations and is slower than most would pedal a standard pushbike.
Its crazy nearly every other country just allows insanely fast fully electric e bikes with no insurance and stuff and the UK just doesn't let you have anything that isnt speed limited and pedal assist only
Agreed! It's so hard to pedal past 15.5 on an electric bike because of motor resistance. Also have you 'Shakespeared' a new word for non electric bikes? I've never heard you call them that before.
Yes it was new to me but Google says it is “a term used with a nod to the difference between an acoustic vs electric guitar. “ Apparently. I wonder if that makes Eilis the modern Dylan?
" It's so hard to pedal past 15.5 on an electric bike because of motor resistance"
Depends on the bike. I get _zero_ resistance beyond 15.5 mph on my Specialized Turbo Levo SL.
(Not disagreeing with the premise of the video - I agree 100% that we should have motor support beyond 15.5 - but I'm a bit of a stickler for accuracy.)
@@keithreeder To be fair it's not the motor resistance, it's the fact that you're suddenly losing whatever assistance the motor is providing (maybe not the full 250w but a good proportion of your own power anyway). I'm pretty sure I could pedal a normal e-bike at 20mph for a while but the transition at 15.5 would still be disconcerting - especially if it happened at a big roundabout or intersection...
She should have just called them traditional bikes.
Push bikes.
your so right.ive been moaning about this for the 8 years ive been ebikeing. because of damage to my knees i cant pedal for long these days and missed my cycling. thanks to ebikes im back on the road and enjoying riding again. great vid.
Being a recent convert to e-bikes, I can see your point about updating the law to allow a larger motor and a greater maximum assisted speed. However, comparing yourself (on an ebike) to someone on a standard cycle could push for laws that could bring in a problem.
Firstly, if you feel that you want to increase the allowed speed for ebikes (whilst in full-assist motor mode) to be comparable to other motorised (petrol / diesel) vehicles, you may find that the new law would compel you to use only the regulated traffic lanes and you may not be able to use cycle / bus lanes and pavements (when allowed). After all, if you can keep up with motorised traffic you should use the appropriate lane. I realise that this could cause a problem regarding feeling "safe" on the general roads, so I don't see this as a solution. This is where the realms of e-scooters (not pedal assist) should be and if you feel the need to go this fast I recommend you look into trying this out as a daily commute.
Secondly, if you feel that a manual cyclist has an issue with you going slower than them on a cycle path, then that is their problem and not yours. Cyclists (both electric and assisted) have a "safe" lane to use. If the faster manual cyclist cannot hold back for a few moments to pass you safely, then they are being as ignorant as the motorist who will not offer the same courtesy on the public highway.
I am an ebike convert and use my bike as a daily commute. My round trip is just 4.5 miles but 99% of this has to be on the public highway. So far I have found the majority of road users to be courteous. I do however make sure that I use lights, hi-vis jacket and stripes on my bike to help them see me. After all, I am a much smaller object to see, especially when it is dark.
It would be great to have a much more powerful motor when I travel home (all uphill) but I take my time and I am happy to get there in a reasonable time. As you say in many of your videos, this is "assisted cycling" and I enjoy getting some work-out while I get there.
My final thoughts are: Upgrading from 15.5mph to 20mph (as a maximum assisted speed) should be fine, but anything over that could bring in more unwanted legislation regarding the current "pedal-assist" ebike laws.
If you want to go faster, get an e-scooter with a throttle, no pedaling and stick on the general roads. Also if the maximum speed for ebikes is increased to 20mph, riders should be aware that many times they are occupying the same routes as pedestrians and they need, in the same way that motorists should be aware, to be alert to slower moving users. I often use a cycle / pedestrian track to go to my local supermarket. I encounter many people with prams, using headphones, with dogs (off a leash) or just stopped for a chat who get in my way. Does that bother me? No. I just ring my bell, slow down and wait to get passed. If you want to be a cyclist, and I think that is a great thing to do, just be aware of the issues you have when traveling on main roads and offer the same courtesy to the slower moving users on designated cycle / pedestrian paths.
Her argument sounds like it makes sense but it falls to pieces the more you think about it. She claims that electric bikes should be compared more to the bigger vehicles like cars but cars have extensive safety systems that are mean to protect driver and passengers when accidents occur at speed electric bikes do not. Next electric bikes are not just ridden on public road infrastructure but also in parks and on walkways shared by pedestrians. By the way as a note in Ontario, Canada there are a speed limits/bylaws that limits both manual and electric bikes. The limit is 20km/h.
Where does the term "acoustic bike" come from? I've never heard that, and it seems odd given that the word "acoustic" refers to sound.
I totally agree with you on this, make it 20mph! We need to get a campaign up for this.
How??? Democracy doesn’t exist.
First of all, I'm from the Netherlands. It's well known that our cycling infrastructure is one of the, if not the best in the world. As someone who has travelled these cycling paths for all his life (31 now), I can say that e-bikes (together with mopeds which have the same speed-limit on cycling paths) generally are more dangerous than regular bicycles.
Main reason is, the cycling commuter goes about 14-18 km/h (8.7-11.2 mp/h), whereas the e-bikes and mopeds will usually go about 25 km/h. This is a pretty big difference.
Now the UK does not have a cycling infrastructure as good as the Netherlands, as far as I know, the UK is working on this. Maybe for now you might want faster bicycles so you can compare to the faster vehicles on the same road (cars on roads with no separate cycling lanes), but in the future this may be a lot less so as the cycling infrastructure increases.
In the Netherlands we also have a separate e-bike category in speed-pedelecs, these can go up to 45 km/h (28mph), but these are not allowed on cycling paths, and require you to have a drivers license for either cars, motorcycles, or mopeds. You are also required to wear a helmet.
Also, statistics have proven that accident rates have increased in the last 10 years, because of e-bikes. There are also more ICU admissions in accidents relating to e-bike drivers (because they go so fast).
For now, from what I can gather, in the UK, you may want to increase the speed-limit slightly to compensate for the non-separated cycling paths. But as cycling infrastructure continues to grow, it may be good to have it reduced again.
I suppose you don't HAVE to go the top speed. If people are trundling along at 10 mph, then trundle along with them if it's only a short trip. If the path is made more for "slow ride! take it easy!" then that's what you do or pick the road with the cars if you want to go car speeds. On the open and infrequently used sections you can do the full 20 mph or whatever. I've done 25 on shared use paths when everyone has gone home (but still wanted to be wary of the occasional pedestrian), but when they are busy 10-15 is usually max. I do agree though that you have to make allowances for the throttle happy teenagers who make no allowances for road or path conditions, who won't trundle their S pedelec but will try and overtake all the slower cyclists and weave in and out at 28 mph.
The 45 km/h e-bikes go on the bike path same as other cycles here in Denmark, and we don't have no stinkin license plates. From 15-17 you need a moped or higher license, from 18 up, you don't need a license, and many drunk drivers have switched to speed pedelecs after losing their car license. 3rd party insurance is required.
Nah, in the UK we cycle around 21km/h (-/+1km/h) on acoustic bikes. Increasing the speed limit makes sense.
UK badly needs S-class, even if it had slightly more restrictions. This is partly due to poor infrastructure forcing cyclists to mix it with fast motor traffic, but also there's a lot of hills.
I notice in 2023, that there was a huge increase (30%) in cycling fatalities, of whom an astonishing 50% are over the age of 60. It seems that many are pointing the finger at eBikes, especially when ridden by the more elderly, as they can now ride much faster with less effort. It is a sad reality, that as you get older, an accident that might mean just a few bruises to a young person can be much more serious to an older one. Bones are weaker, muscle mass less and powers of recovery reduced.
In a somewhat amazing statistic, in 2023 there we fractionally more Dutch cyclists killed per billion km than in the UK. However, we have to be careful on that as Dutch cyclists are, on average, considerably older than in the UK, where cycling is more a sports and leisure pursuit of the young and middle-aged, and not the elderly.
Amazing that you can do a fully insightful and seamless presentation whilst cycling through London! Well done 👏
Thank you 🥲
Yeah likewise here - I was impressed at your ability to chat very coherently and without getting distracted whilst pedalling around London! 👏
Indeed!
Going that slow you can do that, and even 20MPH is not that fast, but even living here in Fl. where it is legal to go 28MPH you find most people not really going that fast and only when it is safe to, plus when you start going faster than 20MPH you start to really eat up your battery! 20MPH is a safe and good pace! Also when I started e-biking 20 years ago we had a 20 MPH speed limit and now they raised it to 28MPH, but 20MPH was good for me and you could easily get away with doing 22MPH because that is what my bike could do back then!
you mean instead of concentrating on riding!
I built my own e-bike mainly for MTB. It has 2000W, has a throttle and 52 km/h top speed. On rare occasions I ride it on bicycle paths with a similar speed as everyone else and being careful. I encountered many people on regular bikes causing a lot more danger than me (one even crashed into me recently, lol). It's an amazing way of transport in a city, I just wish there was a way for me to legalize it as right now I'm stressed every time I see a cop when I'm riding it.
Cars can go 250kmh. It's all about responsibility. Laws only exist for control over the masses. Whatever you do responsibly is right. If you're on a straight bicycle path with noone around and you slow down at each intersection, nobody, not even the law can say to me or you that what you're doing is bad and irresponsible. But just don't get caught, society will be against you for breaking laws, because that's their morality and there's nothing you can do to convince them you're right, because in their eyes, breaking a law is always wrong, thus, avoid talking about your illegal bike and drive responsible.
@@jelle7 ☺👍
Love my electric bike .... it got me cycling again after many years of no longer enjoying it. But I'd like a throttle for safely reasons. Crossing a busy dual carriageway with pedal assist only is no joke. So impressed with how articulate you were throughout the video, I couldn't voice over anywhere near as clearly even with a script.😊
Yes and yes. So true Eilis! I could do with a bit more power up hills too. I love my R&M and feel free. I would sign any petition you set up.
As a lifelong cyclist, your entire argument breaksdown over licencing. If eBikes had to be licenced, numberplates and insurance and most importantly "accountability" on the road, then perhaps yes, restrictions could be lifted. BUT, bikes would have to be kept off hte pavements, out of parks, and ridden on roads or cycleways ONLY. The only way that can be inforced is with licencing.
i made my own with a normal bike and its so much better without restrictions.
its a legal 250w motor with a 10ah bottle battery and it moves like the wind....just off the throttle it hits 25 mph if I peddle to I can reach 36 mph with ease.totally agree the motor gets out off fast at traffic lights and gets you out of scrapes.
great video.
If it has a throttle its illegal, also technically motors can't be stated as a 250w or 1000w as motors dont work that way they can only be measured in Newton meters of torque. A stated 1000w motor can be well capable of 2000w given the right battery and controller with a bit of statoroid to keep it cooler
@@robertcharlton4277 ilegal smeagal who cares ive drove past tons of police around here and not one give a shit tbh they no its a stupid law and no there's just thousands of ppl using throttles and electric scooters ...its old news pal no one cares
Yip I know I got 2 e bikes both with throttle for 5 years even stopped and chatted to traffic cops so don't worry I'm with on this
Isn't that actually a moped?
I think 35 kmh would be a better limit. 25 is just too slow to be useful in Australia. I ride 17 km to work. It would take ages at 25 kph max.
As someone from the Netherlands. I don't agree, the problem with the UK is bike infrastructure not top speed.
Range, speed to justify Ebike cost.. But of course better infrastructure.
Exactly that. 20mph/32kph is ideal speed
Pedaling an acoustic bike at 21mph to pass the electric bikes on the rail trail is a good interval workout:)
When I was an active private pilot, there I was flying my powered plane and was overtaken by a glider. Those things are super slippy! :)
As a recreational exercise rider, I don't go the 20MPH top speed often, but it's good to know the capacity is there in case I need it. The same with the higher assist modes. I stick with 0, 1 and 2 most of the time, but it's good to know 3, 4, and 5 are there in case I'm ever in a jam. I vote in favor of more opinion pieces.
4 - ' gonna be late' , 5 - ' really late for work' lol .
So what exercise do you get?
@@mintywebb pedaling ,right ?
@@NWforager My average speed on my e-bike is about a kilometre less than my acoustic road bike... and who the fuck wants to get to work. ;-)
Yes, as a bicyclists and motorcyclist, accelerating your way out of someone's path is a viable option and often the best one! Doing so in a car is almost always a bad idea because the power to weight ratio is much lower. But on an e-bike, you have the motor and possibly a throttle to scoot away past the trouble.
i am totally agreed with you , we should encourage more people to use e-bike instead of car. Sometimes it is a waste of energy or fuel to have just one person inside the car, we should encourage to use more e-bike to commute from one place to another place when it is nearby
I couldn't agree more, i think 22/23mph is ideal.
It's bloody dangerous, hitting the limiter while try to get out of a tight spot, ie riding round a parked bus, or keeping with the traffic flow on a roundabout. This is what made me derestrict my old spesh levo with a plantary cog gizmo made by 'planet3' which then foxed the limiter by slowing down the magnet on your rotor, every 3 turns of the wheel the magnet turns once. Which means you can go up to 45mph if you can pedal fast enough. My legs were an invisible blur at about 34mph. Simple but effective. Doesn't void your warranty because you can remove it easily 😉.
Recently switched to a haibike, can't fit a planet3 because they don't make on for it. But i can get a VOLspeed v3 for the Yamaha pwx-3 motor. Which will cut off at 28mph with a dynamic mode that spreads the cut off over a wider speed range.
None of this would be necessary if the law was changed to somewhere between 20 and 25 mph.
And don't get me started on how shitty it is to hit the limiter just as you approach the lip of a jump. 😂
Who do we need to petition to get this law looked at again? MARK HARPER the transport secretary i think 🤔., We aren't in the EU anymore, so should be able to change our laws easier.
The law as it stands has persuaded almost every one i know that owns an e-bike to turn to various derestricters. Which make the bikes a bit too fast for many folks.
What is an acoustic bike - does it have built in music centre?
Aka Organic bike
@@Seafox0011you have a bike that contains no inorganic materials?
Love mine. Only had it a few weeks. Here in the States few of our suburban town, cities or counties are very bike friendly so I have been exploring neighborhood streets and greenway bike paths to try to learn ways to get around my community on mine. I also own a motorcycle, car and pickup truck so I am hoping every trip I can do on my electric bike keeps those parked and that hopefully helps to make the planet a better place for all of us. Plus, it's fun to ride too!
Love mine too, there really aren’t very many e bikes in my town so it’s not a problem yet
Couldn't agree more! A minimal increase in speed would have a massive benefit (safety primarily) to ebikers. Great vid 👏👏
everyone here has practically passed the limiter, and it's much more pleasant to drive, most of the time below 35 kph. Max with 250W and 18 -gear mtb is around 50 kph.
Here in the U.S., I ride an ebike with a 500 watt hub motor and cargo bags that I use for shopping. My city provides striped bike lanes on many arterials. This class 2 rated bike has a maximum pedal assist speed of 20 mph. The arterial speed limit is mostly 30 mph so I find that the closing rate for auto traffic is comfortable. My wife has the same. She says that her ebike makes her feel safe in places she would have never ridden her non powered bicycle. I love London and hope to rent an ebike on our next visit. Thank you for posting this video.
Just got my Kuma XO E Bike and you've nailed it, a change in regulation to 20mph or 30kph here in Ireland would be the sweet spot particularly on flat terrain where traditional commuter bikes and there riders generally go faster when up and running leaving plenty of E bikes in the way!
The weight of an electric bike shouldn’t really factor in. The weight of two different riders can be drastically more a factor imo. For instance a small female and a large male. Difference can be well over 100lbs. I’m not in the U.K., but would like to chime in that 20mph is the goldilocks speed for these bikes. It’s not so fast 🐇 a speed that you cannot stop safely, but also reasonable enough a speed to feel that it’s not at a snails 🐌 pace either. And I’ve found that at that speed on a rather warm day, it’s sort of a sweet spot speed (20mph) for cooling.
Hadn't seen your post but I've just written basically the same thing. :)
@@djtaylorutube 👍🏻
I agree
I agree with one exception. For non-congested areas, 25 mph is closer to the Goldilocks speed. Even though my bike will do 28 mph, I generally ride at a max of 25 mph unless going downhill. When pedestrians are around, then slower is better.
Nice vid, totally agree that the assist speed limit should be higher, 20mph would be great but even 18mph is useful
28mph is what I want it to be. I can go faster than that on my road bike so why am I restricted to 15.5mph lol.
The safest speed to travel on a road is the same speed as the rest of them traffic. Making it law that you must travel a lot slower than other traffic immediately makes you more vulnerable. I believe that e-bikes should have the same speed limits as other vehicles - and decent disk brakes.
You're so right. My motor seems to impede me if I try to push past 15.5. I thought you might address 'chipping' the motor. Is 'acoustic' the right word for a conventional bike? I can understand an acoustic v electric guitar but I cannot accept it when applied to a bike. I'm etymologically over-sensitive, I guess.
"Is 'acoustic' the right word for a conventional bike?"
Yes.
The thing with language is that it _changes,_ Alan...
I agree, I HATE the term acoustic in bike jargon
Great video. One of the problems here in the US is throttle only riding. People buy an electric bike but become addicted to the throttle and the bicycle becomes a motorcycle. I've seen e bike riders weave around and between baby strollers, elderly citizens with walkers and dogs on leashes. When I want to go faster, I just go out into the roadway and compete with cars. I like to pedal but for some people using the throttle becomes a bad habit.
Yeah - throttles are an odd one. Maybe there should be two classes:
1) Throttle e-bike with no pedals, can only be used on the road
2) Pedal assist, with no throttle - has the same rules as a normal bike
How is a throttle more dangerous though. You're going the same speed, who cares if you're pedaling or not. The only danger is not getting exercise
Yeah, I like my throttle, though I use it sparingly because 1) battery range and 2) one of the points of biking in the first place is to get exercise. But for short bursts, the throttle us hella useful. And to follow up on Mr. Techie's question, one of my uses fir the throttle is navigating severe congestion allowing me to focus my energy on "threading the needle" through congestion.
@@bostonvair Ok. So you are not on a footpath. Take care ..
@@mr.techie8565 The people I'm talking about cannot go the same speed. Their BMI prevents that. They ride on foot paths because they can't handle bike paths and bike lanes.
A very well put together video. I totally agree with your assessment and analysis of the current UK law.
I have a Gazelle NL in the USA. The motor helps up to 20mph, but can pedal it on level up to about 35mph. It's a good workout. Just pedal harder 😅
I totally agree everything you mentioned. I got into cycling/e-bike few months now and I feel vulnerable at 15mph limit when most cyclist and cars are trying to overtake me in 20mph road. When I did use 20mph e-bike I felt safer and confident to cycle next to cars and athletic cyclists
I don’t think the limit should be lifted as much as I’d like them too, although 20 mph is a good speed. Although it’s more about the person, not the bike…Too many idiots cycling on unrestricted bikes in cycle lanes. They going far faster then 25/30/35 mph and throttle assisted, and more importantly driven badly in an anti social manner.
If they increase the limit above 20 mph…They shouldn’t be able to use cycle paths
If you want to go fast on an e bike, buy an electric road bike. People are just buying the wrong bikes
I totally agree.
Maybe an enhanced class could be brought in for driver's licence holders over 16.
There was a time when mopeds were obliged by law to have pedals, and many of them could barely make 25 mp/h
Bike trails are one thing. But on city streets (30 mph) One should be able to keep up with traffic if needed (35) . Holding up traffic is not safe.
The assistance speed limit isn't a speed limit for the e-bike.
Indeed... Most electric bike motors have negligible resistance when providing no assistance or when going over their limit. It's just that riding a normal bike at 25 km/h (15.5 mph) by pure muscle power is NOT that easy.
Especially if you are used to having assistance...
Faster "normal" e-bikes is not the solution, car traffic should be slowed down in cities for everybody's safety. The 30km/h speed limit in city center in Oslo and Helsinki resulting in nearly zero death of pedestrians speaks for itself!
But if you need to go faster in the EU and Switzerland there are speed-pedelecs that has a speed limit of 45km/h. The speed-pedelec needs to have a signalhorn , a brake light and license plate , insurance and a permit ( at least in Sweden) . They are not allowed on bike lanes, they are like the 45km/h mopeds but with pedals :)
This is a fair point!!
Start the petition!
It's not the speed, it's the power. 250 watts is not enough. 500 watts should be the limit, which means that a bigger voltage/wattage battery can be fitted to give more range.
Elite cyclist can easily produce 400W over an hour period and over 1000W in short bursts. I'm not elite but I can guarantee you that I can accelerate much quicker than average electric bike on it'a own (and I've done it multiple times).
You've done admirable research, and made very good points. I don't believe the average cyclist can maintain a speed greater than yours, however, unless going downhill.
I am puzzled as to when the word "acoustic" came to be applied to bicycles. What?!!
First time I’ve heard acoustic referring to bikes
It’s a guitar joke.
@Darth Tinderalla Only world-class racers can average over 20 mph on a road bike. The average person will never come close to that, let alone in six months.
@@sharifsalemthanks for the explanation, I did not understand it at first.
Great topic. USA has 25 mph speed limit (for cars and everyone else) streets in neighborhoods and downtown urban settings. And we're pushing for speed reductions on many streets following Dutch design leads.
Admittedly, if we are pushing to replace cars in all places, then the longer distances and more rural settings should allow for greater speeds for bikes and micromobility. But with the urban spaces trying to keep acoustic mixing with e-bikes in cycleways we should expect to keep speeds low.
Ideally, we design bike infrastructure to be wide enough to support faster and slower bike traffic. Also ideally, we set limits (or create proper design) for ALL mobility to be slow enough to keep cycling feeling and being safe for all. Unfortunately, no one has a golden formula for cars + 28 mph e-bikes + fast scooters + 20 mph e-bikes + fast road cyclists + slow utility cyclists + messengers and delivery cyclists moving at money-making speeds. We'll do well to plan for a high volume future and allow for a variety of speeds where we can manage it.
25 kph seems like it's limiting folks in UK from performing longer commutes on e-bikes, they might otherwise make. Can we count on people to use their head, and regulate their speed when it's wise to do so? Speeding car drivers tell us no, but most e-bikers will argue at least give us the same benefit of doubt you currently give motorists to self-regulate.
Dutch (and Danish?) street design does have the solution by actually introducing visual cues and traffic design that psychologically induces slowing. BTW, interview Melissa or Chris Bruntlett about this subject if you want to get a planner's point of view on thoughtful bike infrastructure design and why your slow EU e-bike limits might be helping or hindering e-bike adoption in and out of the city.
Maybe this starts with a standardized voluntary 28mph, 20mph, 15.5mph selectable limit on all e-bikes for cyclists to quickly set the speed to match their environment.
In California, we do allow for 28 mph speed pedalecs, but we then limit them to certain bike infrastructure or to use the road (always still an allowable option here). You cannot legally operate a 28mph capable (Class 3) bike on a Class 1 bike path, even if you go slowly. But owners do operate there. We just use our heads (hopefully) and so far, no bike police are stopping us to see if our bikes are overrated and shouldn't be there.
the dutch absolutely hate the dutch policies on transport and safety. so many rules and regulations and pushing even worse; yet very low death rates already. they almost make it mandatory to not leave the house to prevent future road deaths.
Shocked to hear your speed limit is so slow. It's the opposite here, I'm always getting passed by an electric something or other. One thing I would suggest is NOT being the first vehicle to leave a red light at an intersection. Love the channel seriously contemplating upgrading my "acoustic" bike to electric
That's a good point, but primarily applies to larger metropolitan areas. I'm in a big city and usually the first to go through the intersection on my analog or e-bike. However, I am carefully checking traffic from every direction first. People fly through lights that have been red more than a few seconds here.
American here, NYC to be exact. Good video, I am an ebiker and like to see my global counterparts experiences in others countries. So, definitely appreciate, thank you. Here in NYC we have an Ebike classification I generally agree with. We are broken down into classes for E-Bikes 1, 2 & 3. 1 is pedal assist only with a limit up to 20 MPH. Class 2 are E-bikes with a throttle that cap speed at 25 MPH. Class 3 are pedalic only that reach speeds of 28 MPH. I find this appropriate, but do feel it would be ok to allow class 3’s to hit 28 mph with a throttle.
Regarding safety, I agree 15 MPH is actually dangerously low for the Ebike rider and other riders as certain safety situations require the ability of the rider to accelerate out of danger.
Regarding our existing laws here in NYC and safety. I feel it is the responsibility of the rider and the micro mobility community to obey laws and ride safely. I do not think it is appropriate to ride 28 mph in public areas such as parks and playgrounds. However, I do think this speed is appropriate when navigating streets. If you are on a road with a 30 mph speed limit. You should be allowed to ride within that limit, it makes it safer for bike riders and those in cars as the flow of traffic is consistent. Of course these rules should be enforced by law enforcement when possible. Start ticketing e bikers and those riding regular bikes ( I have seen plenty of poor examples of those folks going dangerously fast on pedestrian heavy areas as well, always wonder why they get a pass) that ride recklessly with significant fines, and you will see a greater adherence to safety protocols in the micro mobility community.
Your analogy regarding cars is super relevant here. My car has the ability to go over 120 mph. I would be a madman to do so, and never would. As a responsible adult I adhere to the speed limit. This is my responsibility. I feel this same thought process should be applied to micro mobility as well. And for those who don’t adhere, make them through enforcement of violations with significant monetary penalties and criminal charges for the more egregious reckless offenders. Anyway, thank you again for making interesting content, be well, be safe!
I bought a model 3.0 from Lectric almost a year ago and it has been a godsend. I would buy another one in a heartbeat. It has been perfect. I work only a mile from home and shopping is about a half a mile away so it is a bit far for walkin but is just a few minutes on an e-bike. I find I feel my car with gas about once every 3 months. I also charge my e-bike off of solar power so I don't even spend money on electricity.
Totally agree, it’s improved my health and only use electric for short breaks. I have a trailer for my dog or shopping. It’s the answer in towns and cities. Just need more off road cycle paths and yes higher legal speed limit.
Fun fact is that ebikes are generally healthier for people than regular unassisted bikes. Why? Because people are much more likely to actually ride the ebike. Most people would be well advised to get an ebike and ride it exclusively in pedal assist mode.
@@wturber this is such an underrated fact Jay!
If only more people (that are already thinking about it, but “aren’t sure”) would take the plunge and get one I guarantee they’d say “l wish I’d bought one sooner!”.
well said. i have ridden an electric bike for 2 years. unfortunately, the battery recharge decreased to 10% and now i can't get more than 5 miles on a charge. my gripe is that governments are not requiring companies to buy back their bikes for disposal or refurbishing. so like many bicycles, they'll become another heap of garbage on the planet.
True. I made the mistake of getting one with an internal battery hidden in the frame and when it can no longer be charged then there goes my bike. It would be unridable without the power assist as it weighs a tonne. I never could understand why they would make an electric bike and then limit the speed so drastically. Ordinary road bike users where leaving me in the dust. I bought a manual road bike for less than half the cost of my e-bike and I found it much faster and incredibly light. I wouldn't buy another.
If the battery is removable, look into having it rebuilt. That will give your ride a longer life.
@@iankelly3081 don, t buy cheap crap, I have e-mountbike for 8 years now and the batteries 2 are still 95%, extra batteri 600€today 18000km.
@@mikaellindroos1594what brand ebike would you recommend?
@@deeplydeeplydope1111 many brands, 3500€👍
They still haven't legalised e-scooters.....madness!!!
Absolutely!!
On my almost daily commute from Sheffield into the Peak district, on the up hill sections I'm limited to the assisted speed of 15.5mph, but I can quite easily and legally pedal downhill at 30mph, which is where because of the relatively low gearing I "spin out". and with q fair wind, often, again quite legally freewheel at 38mph. The brakes on my Kona are equal to if not better than on my VW!
Keep up the good work, and stay safe
My motor cuts out at 15mph, the fact I was doing 40mph officer was pure leg power 🤣🤣🤣
Absolutely. My theory is that some desk jockey told a cyclist on a pushbike to go out and ride for an hour. When he got back he had ridden 15 miles. Not understanding the concept of average speed, they made that the top speed. I can’t see any other logical explanation for the ludicrous European limit.
My bike is not limited, and drawing 200w, I tend to cruise on the flat at around 20mph, so the Yanks seem to have got it about right.
For riding on asphalt, I don’t really have an issue with the wattage limit. Higher watt usage drains one’s battery too quickly. 350w would be an ok limit, so that one can bump it up on very steep hills, but most highway cycling is done at between 100-200w
The motors on UK bikes are identical to those on US bikes… it is just software governing the limits, so updating existing bikes would not be that difficult. Until the big bike manufacturers make a concerted case for a more sensible limit, it won’t change. The consumer needs to start demanding a product that is fit for purpose, and they will force the necessary change.
It's not a set in stone 'European' limit. Denmark allows e-bikes to go at 45 kmh. Not sure what that is in Brexit units.
In Brexit units 45kph is around 28mph. Way more sensible. It would be great if a study was done on the Danish experience. I’m sure the safety issues would be found to be negligible. It might help spread some sense through the rest of the EU.
I find 30-35kph is a happy compromise between speed and range. It certainly does not feel fast. Coasting down a hill will typically get an unassisted rider 50kph. Mind you, the Danes would not know that, considering the highest point in Denmark is that speed bump near the primary school in Copenhagen. 😄
@@etiennemuller1 Danes have wind! Sometimes it's even behind them. Also, Denmark is full of separated bike lanes where the 45kmh bikes also travel, so I'm not sure how useful any study would be to a country without that infrastructure.
@bugsygoo …You are so lucky. I’m in Ireland, and here the wind is always in my face. Our cities, although small, are not well designed for bikes. One more or less needs to mix it up with the traffic. A little extra speed, and acceleration, can be helpful in traffic.
I mostly ride in rural countryside. The roads are hilly and winding, great for eBiking. Traffic is not excessive, but with our winding roads one has to be very aware of what is approaching from behind. I find high visibility clothing and helmet help, and a decent mirror is worth gold.
Cycling in general is very popular here, so drivers are on the lookout, which helps too. I am careful approaching, and polite, to pedestrians. I also consider drivers companions on the road, rather than contenders for the space. We are all ambassadors when we take to the highways and trails… If we want concessions, we need to bear this in mind. Bad attitude from bikers discredit us all.
Last time the Danes were here, they were not really welcomed with open arms. They took all out gold, and some of our women. We are getting our gold back though, one euro at a time, from our Scandinavian tourists.🙂
Seriously though, you should come to Ireland for a cycle tour. It’s fantastic countryside for biking, especially the west. Bring an umbrella.
@@etiennemuller1 Ireland is high on the list of travel destinations. I'm not sure about cycling through all that rain, though. I might prefer to watch the cyclists while downing one or two pints of Guinness.
Thank you for this!!! I've owned E bikes for over 20 years the discussion on electric bikes usually falls to complaints of cheating,laziness ECT but I've been obsessed with them so long now!18mph is what we need as it keeps you constant going up hills you don't drop to 10mph as with the 15.5 regulations there is less frustration from car drivers as they are not held up so long behind you!! I think there definitely needs to be a Electric bike Zsar!Someone to lobby the Government and I can think of no better Candidate than you young lady!haha! You are a breath of fresh air! This was an amazing Video!We need more representation and as a daily commuter I'm hoping this happens soon as it's getting more and more dangerous out there on the roads!something needs to be done!Once again Thankyou!🚴💨👍
Yeah but tell ask them if they own a car or motor bike and going to work in it. One person in a car, is a waste and it takes up so much space on the road. Motor bikes are better but again are they not cheating, same with the car lol.
Cars or much more cheating, laziness, and faster
After 55 years of driving, I walk everywhere. Love it.
The increase in velocity from 15.5mph to 20mph is roughly 30% but the increase in kinetic energy is about 60%. Kinetic energy increases with the velocity squared.
I agree seems ridiculous when I can ride my road bike at 35kph. But here in Australia the police don't enforce limits for e-bikes
One of the benefits of an E-Bike is that you still get some exercise. My average speed is around 15 mph so half the time I am not using the boost. I tend to use it most on steep hills and into headwinds when I am doing less than 15mph. If you upped it to 750 watts and 20 mph then you would get no exercise at all. In that case why even bother with an ebike why not just have electric mopeds? The only reason for upping the limit is to make e-cargo bikes more effective IMHO.
Just because you have 750 watts doesn't mean you always use it. My ebike has 750 watts, but my typical use is between 250-500 watts. I only go full power accelerating through intersections (nice so you clear the intersection fast on left turns without irritating drivers who are in a senseless rush) or going up steep/short hills.
I've gotten plenty of exercise while putting in over 12,000 miles on my 750 watt ebike. I'm always working even with assist. I'm just going faster and getting home earlier with assist. So not as much work if I rode an unassisted bike and took 50% longer, but far more exercise than if I had driven. And I've monitored with my smart watch heart rate monitor while doing this - and watched as my resting hear rated dropped from about 60 bpm to below 50 bpm after a few months commuting (32 miles round trip) on my e-bike.
Get yourself to sheffield and try riding a 250w bike,they are useless on these hills.
Trust me, you still get exercise on 750watt / 20mph (more like 18-19 mph at least on my Yamaha CrossConnect)
Our council have just invested £75,000,000 in a new bike path between Eastbourne and Lewes but I don’t have time to ride it at 15mph ! I’ve got to be there quickly
Legislators main role in the UK is to keep joe average under the thumb first and foremost not to make us feel free and empowered! Facts , data and logic don’t really come into the equation! Hopefully your words will reach someone willing to apply common sense and actually do what we pay them to do which is to assist us and not hinder our lives!! Great video 👍
What a really well put together video, and you are totally correct, I ride a road bike most of the time but also have an E-MTB for off road, however on the road sections when the E bike tops out at 15mph I feel so vulnerable and totally in the way, an extra 5mph would make such a huge difference being able to get through road sections faster, and as you rightly say there are much faster moving objects on the road that are far more dangerous than a bike doing 20mph, one can only hope the video is recognised by the government and department of transport, the E bike really should be the saviour for city commuting and not just an in fashion leisure bike.
Couple points UK law is 250watt motor correct but that’s at continuous not peak every UK street legal 250 watt motors peaks at much higher power levels also 15.5. Mph is fast enough I see your a Young fit rider I’m 73 I can easily go faster on the flat on my ebike it makes you fitter I feel it’s a good compromise between assistance when you need it and effort you put in certainly has improved my fitness .There are more powerful ebikes like the Sur Ron which are capable of 50 mph but to be legal you’ll need to register with DVLA get insurance and road tax.
It's not even the watts that matter, it's the torque. Modern motors can squeeze 90Nm of torque out of a 250W continuous rated motor which will easily sail you up to 40kmh if unrestricted.
"also 15.5. Mph is fast enough"
It just _isn't._ But there's nothing to stop you from continuing to ride at a speed you're happy with, on a bike capable of a few mph more.
@@markepps3511 Yep, there's zero need for bigger motors given the efficiency of the 250w units on modern e-bikes.
@@markepps3511 motors are like speakers, a speaker may have a watts limit, it's the amplifier that makes the watts, a 100w speaker will put out the same volume on a 20w amp as a 30w speaker, given that both examples are a similar size and efficiency. speakers are tested at 1 watt with mic 1 metre distance for how loud they play in dB, 90 dB being the average for larger speakers, whereas bookshelf speakers will be not as loud with the same input level. now back to ebike motors, the so called 250w motor would be getting 350w doing 40 kph, it's the controller that feeds the voltage into the motor, more volts = more watts
Interesting arguements in favour of increased speed limit, I agree ebikes are life changing, but I disagree that we need to up the speed limit. I think it's better to reduce vehicle speed. I've cycled in the Netherlands, where large amounts of people, of all abilities cycle together, and the flow is much better when everyone is going roughly the same speed, and they have excellent infrastructure, much of it segregated. I agree on commute routes it'd be great to up the speed, but not on shared paths.
I also hate wearing helmets, so I wouldn't want to see that made mandatory. Safety means no helmet is necessary. The beauty of an ebike is stop start, strain reduction, and load carrying, not top speed.
Helmets should be mandatory, maybe you need a spell in A&E to witness the head trauma and death caused by idiots too stupid to wear one or dont like helmet hair
Great video.
Why limit the ebike speed? You don't limit car speeds by limiting the capabilities of said car!
When the rules were set the Italian scooter manu's (Piaggio mostly) lobbied hard to limit the speed of electric bicycles - they worried about losing sales....
I'd look at the environmental benefits over fossil motorcycles of increasing peddle assist vehicles in urban environments if I wanted to lobby for change.
You do now. Check the EU's new rules on limiters for cars.
@@DeejvilleTV those are soft limiters, it can be bypassed by pressing harder on the gas pedal
Fully agree, in the city we should all be traveling at 20MPH/30km/h , bikes and cars. In exchange for the increased speed cutoff, they should make mandatory, always-on lights, directly connected to the battery. DRL+low beam+rear light.
PS I strongly doubt there is any difference in stopping distance between acoustic and electric bikes: brakes are quite powerful and the limit is given by the rear wheel lifting, which in turn is connected to weight distribution, which may be better on mid-drive e-bikes.
From what I've seen of discussions in relation to cars the acceleration (deceleration) at maximum braking effort is about twice that of the acceleration. This is a useful guide as many bicycles in the past have had woeful brakes - particularly in the wet. People who have ridden a lot will be aware of the limitations.
I used to daily commute 18km (each way) in Perth in 35 minutes on an "acoustic" bike. The route mostly avoided traffic lights and took advantage of parallel back streets and dedicated cycle paths (rarely shared with pedestrians). To average 30km/h means achieving above 45km/h at times. I didn't have disc brakes and there were a few times not just in wet weather where the braking was inadequate.
In my view the EAPC rules (UK) are inadequate. I agree that 15.5mph is too slow BUT to increase that the requirements should include minimum braking distance / capacity (allowing for rider and maximum load), speedometer and lights (which can be easily fitted and shouldn't need to be removed all the time for charging like the lights on non e-bikes). In terms of maximum speed I would say 30mph is too high in electric only mode, probably somewhere between 20 and 25mph should satisfy most people, most of the time.
Where I do see a problem is in mixed cycle and pedestrian traffic. Where I live the local quayside has become a racetrack with cyclists going far too fast given the number of pedestrians that are around. If I ride along that section with my "acoustic" bike I stick to walking pace (which isn't easy when you have cleats).
I'm of two minds over helmets. The studies that have been done on bicycle helmets do not appear to be as rigorous as those for motorcycle helmets. I personally feel "naked" if I'm not wearing a helmet (very lightweight racing style) but I can am also aware of their quite limited protection. I've had some quite serious bike accidents when I was younger - pre-helmet laws in Australia but only one recently. I had a head on collision with another cyclist where we were both doing well over 40km/h - he overtook a couple of cyclists and didn't see me on a cycle path. It could have been far worse.
Your proposal seems sensible to me. BTW, the 10% allowance seems to be an urban myth! I did the "speed awareness" course very recently, to avoid a speeding offense. One of the others there was busted for doing 22 in a 20mph zone.
22 in a 20?
Fucking hardcore gangsta u met there
I fully agree with your speed limit recommendation. I only ride a normal mountain bike, and I get up to 20 on that, so it's dumb that ebikes cant go as fast!
They can they just need to peddle to get there , the same as you do.
@Ed Straker Most designs don't have motor resistance. Only direct drive hub motors do, and it really isn't that much. Weight isn't really a limiting factor on level ground. Though its a big deal on any incline.
@Ed Straker I know of a number of people who go fast with lightweight low power e-bikes. They are tuned for assist at higher speeds. These are the guys that go 20+ on their own normally. So they use the extra boost to help with hills, headwinds, and up hills - just like everyone else - but at higher speeds because they are more fit. They use small, geared motor hubs with higher winds/gears. They often just put the battery in a backpack with a quick release connect in case of a spill. It keeps the bike handling more normally and looks cleaner.
One of the cool things about the ebike concept is how adaptable it is to different unique needs.
15.5 mph may seems slow on a fast road but it's plenty of speed on shared paths and bridleways.
Absolutely spot on with the suggested 20mph and the benefits of encouraging people out of cars and onto bikes.
I felt a sitting duck on the 30mph roads in my town when I tried an upright ebike recently. Not so on my "acoustic" road bike. 20mph would be far better.
Though I do want higher limit, I think it would do worse for holding up traffic, at 15 they can get around you easily with a small gap in oncoming traffic, but the faster you are going, the bigger gap they need to be able to pass, and can end up stuck behind for longer causing more traffic build up
@@Fromatic i see where you are coming from. I think there is added danger in a long overtake however urban roads are best with a 20mph limit, so no overtaking should be necessary. Also the goal is to replace as many car journeys as possible thereby reducing traffic. I don't think the ebikes would cause more traffic buildup at 20mph than at 15.
@@crunchysaviour that would work, 20mph limit so bikes and traffic move together on urban roads that are both too narrow and too busy for cars to pass, a non issue everywhere else. And in any case the drivers need to calm down, as on those same roads when they're busy, the driver gets worked up and might pass in a rage for being held up, only for you to catch them up again while they're sat at the next traffic lights
NYC Brooklyn resident here. I ride the volcon brat max potential speed of 28 mpg, and I still think ebikes should go faster. Around 60 mpg would be nice. It would allow quicker acceleration around double parked cars / hazards and hopefully change the mindset of car drivers from being "oh now I'm stuck behind a bike" to "oh I'm behind a bike that can easily keep up and if there's a bike lane I could easily pass them ".
As an Americano, I'll tell you that my nearby residential streets have a speed limit of 20mph/32kmph with a few areas having a maximum of 25mph/40kmph and Class 1 and 2 bikes are just fine for most of my town. The areas that have higher speed limits also have separated multi-use paths that allow cyclists to avoid faster traffic but that might just be in my area
You have to be careful equating e-bikes to cars. You open the door to the mandatory helmet, insurance and road tax (even though road tax doesn't exist anymore) brigade. Btw I do agree that the limit in the UK should be raised to 25mph.
I dont know if they exist in the UK, but in most european countries you can buy speed-pedelecs which provide electrical assistance up to 45 km/h and for which registration, insurance and helmet are mandatory. The downside is that they are banned from cycling paths in most countries with Belgium as a main exception. Maybe that's why Belgium is the only country where this kind of e-bike is successfull. I think it should be discussed in other countries too under which conditions speed-pedelecs could be allowed on cycling paths.
@@Gi11th they do exist but you can't register them.
@@Gi11th speed-pedelecs are widely popular in Switzerland, where you can also ride them legally on cycling paths. I ride a 45 kph (28mph) Stromer with a 500w hub motor since 2016 and am extremely happy with it. When i ride my other e-bike, an e-mtb with the 25 kph limit it gets really boring in the city, but of course alright in the hills&mountains. Due to the regulations in neighbour countries it is totally unattractive to use the fast e-bike abroad on holidays.
Road Tax (VED) is real and lives on it's just the windscreen sticker that has gone.
@@johnsullivan7230 Vehicle Excise Duty exists. It goes into the general taxation pot and is based on vehicle emissions. It doesn't contribute to road maintenance directly. Road tax did contribute to road maintenance but was abolished in 1937.
Good rant. I agree with you 100%. I ride an e-bike with a 750 W motor, a twist throttle, and a 20+ top speed which is about perfect for what I want to do with it. It moves me along nicely, but not so fast that it's dangerous. Believe me, 30-40 mph on an e-bike on city streets is unwise and should be regulated, but the European limits on e-bikes are pretty ridiculous.
I've unlocked my bike to above 15.5mph. Now I can hit 21mph and it feels far safer even with just that extra 5mph on top. I think the fear is that there are people with DIY e-bikes which are capable of 40/50mph and someone will get hurt or killed on one of those things and they're a nuisance on the roads
"Acoustic" bike. My search engine revealed it to be a slang reference used by trendies.
250 Watt may be the legal limit for a UK ebike, but how often is that limit observed or enforced? Just look at the parade of ebikes outside any fast food takeaway.
If they observed the laws then you would be complaining of cold food.
15mph is a joke. I used to run faster than that.
Most residential areas in the US have a speed limit of 20 mph, which is the limit of Class 1 ebikes (Pedal-assist only), and Class 2 ebikes ( Pedal-assist or throttle).
Class 3 ebikes (Pedal assist only) have a speed limit of 28 mph. Class 3 ebikes have different regulation in different States. Some States consider them to be a Motor vehicles, others don't.