People always think more power = more danger. But with electric unicycles for example having more power is a lot safer in situations where you need to accelerate quickly from a hazard or because its much harder to overpower the motor if you’re accelerating up a steep incline with a head wind
just fyi i have a 750watt bbs02 on Luna Cycles Folder , with a tiny 4 lbs battery under the seat . So 500watts does not require a bigger batt unless you are going a long way or up many hills .
But in most cases, you have forks, rear shocks, and a stronger frame. So, overall, the more power, then such ebikes tend to have more weight when you start increasing power. You can keep the battery size small, but they as a "general rule" tend to increase in size and weight as you increase power outputs. Might not be every single case, but as a general statement, it tends to hold true that more power ratings = increased bike weights.
500w does not mean you need a bigger battery or a heavier bike than a lot of bikes that are already on the market. Stop repeating this as it is not true. This is a myth created by people that dont understand what they're talking about. My rad bike which is already big and heavy and has a fairly large battery also hs a 500w motor that is limited to uk rules 250w. It is the exact same motor, and im sure lots of other hub bikes out there are the same.
Exactly lol bigger motor doesn’t mean more battery amps/wats needed. Only really need bigger battery if you’re pulling massive amps, more than the voltage and controller and battery can take. Those 250w motors can easily do 500w, most stuff in the uk is massively restricted but well built enough to do more.
Your own comment undermines your comment. You’re saying it’s a myth that a 500 watt ebike will need a bigger frame/brakes/components than a 250 watt ebike and you’re using your 500 watt ebike that’s electronically limited to 250 watts as your argument. That ebike was already built for a 500 watt motor, as evidenced by the fact that it _has_ a 500 watt motor. That doesn’t make it a myth that an ebike that was designed and built for a 250 watt motor and that actually has a 250 watt motor rather than a 500 watt motor that’s electronically limited to 250 watts will actually need the bigger frame/brakes/components that your 500 watt ebike already has. It only proves it isn’t a myth. You don’t try to alter reality because some people can’t deal with nuance. You teach those people that nuance matters, and you leave reality alone.
@@babybirdhome no you didn't fully understand my point. You are right that my bike is already designed for a 500 and is heavier etc, but my point is that there are plenty of bikes on the market right now that are already going around with 500w motors, heavy frames and batteries. No one is suggesting that these bikes should be banned or anything so that argument against the increasing power to 500w is ridiculous. That is the reality.
As an electronic engineer, I have to disagree with the assertion that higher power automatically requires a larger battery. The same battery could be used but would last a shorter time, and it wouldn't be half the time - as you pointed out, the motor isn't producing its maximum power output all the time, but rather as required when accelerating or ascending inclines. Many 250W eBike motors are already capable of producing considerably more than 250W but are restricted in software to meet legal standards. In practice, the maximum assisted speed is, I find, a far greater issue. Our 25kph cap limits the usefulness of pedal assist. Having ridden in America, I found their 20mph to be a lot more practical. But that's a whole different debate..
I got my first ebike in 2012, on the Cycle to Work scheme from a large UK supplier...a Fast4ward Peak..it had a throttle! The law changed in 2016 to disallow them, stupidly, when you can go faster on a regular bike. The throttle was handy when going home from work after a hard shift or your legs were tired out going up that last hill (also a reason for 500w, helps on hills, or if a heavier rider). Wouldn't necessarily need a bigger battery, you wouldn't be using 500w all the time once rolling. Might be a slightly shorter range with the same battery. Other countries allow higher wattage, more speed (20mph would be better to keep up with traffic in 20 zones), and throttles. It's not actually a throttle, it's a potentiometer, a throttle works on a carburettor. About time that we caught up with other countries, same for e-scooters. Nice hair today Eilis. :-)
Depends on how fast you were going. If within the 15.5mph limit, probably not. But the point I was making was that it was legal in 2012 to have a "throttle". My bike was bought from a large UK Cycle to Work scheme supplier. The government removed throttles in 2016 (to meet new EU specs). Now we're not in the EU they're free to restore the rules to how they were, or make them even better.
@@PajeroMark That is great to get back to old make-sense rules rather than following EU dumb bureaucrats. That was one of the best things about BREXIT eh. Good point.
I bought my bike in 2015 so I have throttle too. As far as I'm aware the law that came in in 2016 isn't retroactive, so bikes bought before are still allowed to keep them.
More power doesn't necessarily mean higher top speeds. Speed cam syill.be regulated to 25kph, but the power cam still remain at high 500w. The more power should be directed towards torque increase.
The difficulty is that you will have these 500w powered e-bikes used in cycle lanes and shared paths on pavements with pedestrians on them. They can accelerate to 15.5mph a lot faster than 250ws. How do they deal with these - create another class of e-bikes and limit them to roads? We already have a speed pedelec class.
just stop trying to nanny your citizens. the end result is safety. let folks know safety parameters. and stop fear mongering type of politics. It's a bike for petes sake. 2 solutions either change gearing or allow bigger motor with a limiter. stuff like this makes me glad im american. but if Europe/UK could unify laws that might lower bike prices... then again, too much unity means too much of unilateral decisions by "Western Government" idk, maybe it's my love of diversity laws. each of our eclectic states habe their own charm 😅 so it's not unilateral unless it's a good law. also, it allows for more think tanks/testing out laws.
@@badabing8884 there is no limit on acceleration for push bikes or ebikes. If a rider is petite on a light bike they will probably be able to accelerate quicker than a big guy on a heavy bike, a motor just evens it out. Why should it be a concern how fast someone accelerates anyway? For Some ebikes and riders 250w uphill fully loaded with shopping or whatever isn't enough really. 500w would make it a much nicer.
@@timscott3027 I think of this more in terms of momentum. A small person on a bike and a bin lorry might be accelerating at the same speed, but they hit different. I think it's the same with the frame. If the bike itself is quite hefty, it's a lot of energy to dissipate if it hits you. I think you are on to something with limiting acceleration along with top speed though? It's good to get up hills, but I don't see a good argument for letting it go 0-60 in half a millisecond for small riders or downhill etc.
@@mrpsycop3518 You're right that a heavyweight bike and rider will definitely have more momentum, and hit harder. But we have a speed limit for ebikes already 15.5mph or a bit more with leg power. Acceleration doesn't really matter that's my point.
It's 500W in Canada and it is treated the same as a regular bike with the exception that you have to be over 16, at least in my province, and you have to wear a helmet.
And in Ontario, Canada, helmets are mandatory on pushbikes as well. Not as pointless as it might seem, given that proper cycling infrastructure, while expanding, is still grossly inadequate.
I am tall and overweight and in Alberta, Canada. I used to ride a lot, always wore a helmet and I'm thinking about an e bike to help me loose some more weight. My use case is having to coexist with Calgary drivers who are some of the worst. In the olden days, on a road bike on the flat, in multilane traffic, I could go fast enough when required to take a whole lane and more or less keep up with traffic. That always seemed to be the safest option in traffic. If I'm going to own an e bike, I feel like I need enough power to be able to do that same thing of being able get to 40 to 50 kmh. I support responsible riding, compulsory helmets and bigger motors for people like me.
@@lindsaydempsey5683 the name-brand Bosch mid-drive bikes I’ve ridden don’t seem to have any extra drag when you pedal faster than the speed limiter. However, my 70th birthday is fast approaching, and my 250w Gazelle Medeo weighs about 50lb. With the 2” tires at 70psi, I can’t get it much over 40-45kph on a steep downhill. To achieve that sort of speed with a legal drive system, you’ll want a light e-bike with drop bars and narrow rubber. Or start with a legal Class 1 bike and mod it.
I live in the US in an area with large hills. I am a Veteran that was injured in combat and have a damaged knee and foot. I was not even supposed to be able to walk without a device and brace. I spent years trying to rehabilitate myself. I can walk okay on pavement and flat level ground. I can ride a bike okay on level paths and small slight hills but I cannot put heavy pressure on my knee and go places where others can. I should say not for very long. I am over 6 foot tall and almost 300 lbs. I am built like a football lineman. I am of Scandinavian descent and all of my family are large framed. I converted an old heavy framed MTB into an E Bike. I had to custom build it to get the specs I needed to assist me in pedaling uphill. I ride an 18 inch frame with 29 inch wheels. It is a heavy built Chromoly alloy frame meant for abuse. I built it with a 2000 watt rear direct drive hub motor. It has a twist throttle function and a large 72 v battery pack and controller. I normally leave it in pedal assist 1 or not at all on flat bike trails. If I am riding in town on city streets I leave it in P1 and use the throttle assist to quickly move me out and through intersections for safety. If I come up to a large steep hill I can bump up the pedal assist or use the throttle until I get over the hill. I cannot walk up or push the bike up the hill sometimes because of my injuries. A common E bike on the market with a 500 watt hub motor is not enough to meet my needs. If they can limit my power specs it would not be fair or equal to restrict my needs and slot me into the specs of someone who weighs 176 lbs and rides on level pavement.
As disabled person, You can use non-stanard vehicle as transport aid. These vahicles are build and tuned to level of disability. So this is different story. For healthy young lad - 250W is enough.
@@stanley3647 Nonsense. I built a 2kW ebike for less than £800 eight years ago using standard parts and an old mountain bike. More power != more cost. Specialized bespoke equipment costs tens of thousands of pounds, especially if associated with the word "medical".
you can get a 'half twist throttle' that basically doesnt look like you have a throttle at all, you can pretend to pedal while using it and nobody would know.
@@mikeadams2183Hi M... One disabled guy bribes a local auto mechanic.. anybuddy "auto mechanic" in your neighbourhood perhaps? Currently rolling on quickest "street legal" wheelchair built from bike parts. cheers
do not let them fool you, i build e-bikes and let me tell you a 500w motor is only gonna increase the weight by about 100-200g, it's nothing. you don't necessarily have to increase the battery size with a bigger motor, you could use the same battery, but for the sake of argument, let's say we increase the battery so that it could go the same range as the 250w one, the battery would be around just 300g heavier, again it's nothing. claiming that it's significantly heavier is a lie and saying it's more dangerous in crashes because it's heavier is just a scare tactic, it's total bs.
A 70kg rider and a 120kg rider have different power requirements, a bike used for cargo too has different requires of the motor so the power of the motor should not be regulated at all. The only thing legislation should manage (and does) is to limit the speed of that electric assistance.
Look I cycle a electric bike at 15mph and a guy on a ordinary bike passed me no bother! Over a long distance I can win, but 15 mph is to slow! 20mph is the perfect speed! And a 250 watt bike struggles to get my 100kg weight up a hill ! I wish I had just bought a 500 watt bike! Other countries it's legal for a 500 watt bike but bloody typical uk nanny state uk no!
@shahan1465 so just because it's risky in London stuff everyone else that lives in the quiet places! Typical londonder ! Selfish! Ignorant and don't give a shit about any other parts of the country! How's hs2 going for you?! That's never coming to Scotland!
They sell cars that make 1000 hp and top speeds of 200mph+ and they also sell cars that are only 150hp and 150mph. They both have to follow speed limits. Ebikes should just have top speed limits, 28mph and need to wear helmet and be over 16-18 years old.
No, there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference. What is that difference? Why of course the power of the state to take away your license! And if you speed, then you get demerits and HUGE increase in your insurance rates. And if you have too many speeding tickets, or driving infractions, then the insurance company will drop you, and with too many demerits you will lose your license. And often if you have a lot of demerits, they will double or even triple your insurance rates. So, this is all about regulations, and using the power of the state to make YOU conform to the law and rules. Without a requirement for insurance (and the insurance higher rates and consequences of breaking traffic laws), and without a requirement for a driver licenses (and again, with the consequences of breaking traffic laws), then you simply CAN NOT compare a bike to a car, UNLESS you change the laws to require a bike license and ALSO require bikes to buy and have insurance. This has VERY little to do with that a car or a bike can say go faster then the speed limit, it HOW you going to enforce the existing laws. With a e-bike, there are VERY few consequences compared to a car when you break traffic laws. I mean, in that car, or bike, you can exceed the speed limit, or blast though a red light - the consequences of doing as such in a car are VAST more serious since by law you need that license and by law you need that insurance. This is not about breaking the speed limit, it is about what regulation leverage and force the governing state has over you to conform to such traffic laws. Moving from 250w to 500w is a great idea, but yes, it DOES open more doors to that of e-bikes now having more risk, more power, and more speed, and the issue THEN becomes a greater requirement for greater regulations. A 250w don't need much regulation since they don't go very fast and they tend to not be all that heavy. With a 500w limit (and peak power exceeding that), then yes, you do open up a can of worms from a regulation point of view. You need more regulation or at least risk needing more regulation. A car with 100hp or a car with 500hp both are regulated right now. e-bikes are not. So, it not really about power, it about that both have VAST MORE power then a ebike, and thus both the 100hp and 500hp care a regulated the SAME. If you allow higher power e-bikes, then we open up the doors for requiring ALL e-bikes on the road being regulated regardless of their power. So, JUST LIKE cars with 100hp, or 800hp are BOTH regulated? Then a ebike with 250w or 500w or 750w will then need to be regulated JUST THE SAME! They don't care if your car has 100hp, or 500hp. However, in near all cases, the insurance rates WILL be higher for high performance cars, and in fact some insurance companies will not even ensure some very high performance cars. So, allowing operation of a motored "thing" that drives on pubic roads has consequences, and with 500w+ power, then you increase risk, and thus you increase the need for things like insurance and licensing.
@@Albertkallal I dont agree, if you have a speed limit for example at 30kmh by law it should not matter if it is a 250w or 2500w or how quickly goes to speed limit. I do not mind requiring insurance for a more capable machine, I would never use those xiaomi style scooters near cars / buses / trucks, in my city it simply cannot keep up with the flow of traffic. A cyclist can go much higher than 500w peak power, it is normal to see BMX racers putting out 2200W+ of peak power and sprint track reaching the 2700w.
You are right but more power in the motor usually gives more torque - the government can still require the manufacturers to limit the motors power to cut off at 15 mph even if its a 3000w motor, which would give you great hill climbing ability
Of course a 500w motor should be allowed (kits with much larger motors 2000w plus are readily available). A 500w motor is only nominally larger and heavier than a 250w (some 250w are a restricted larger capacity anyway) same for the battery and well within most existing bicycle’s ability to handle the power and torque. A thumb throttle is particularly useful with a hub motor especially in the instance when you’ve stopped in too high a gear and want to take off cleanly at a junction etc. You can freewheel an non electric bike downhill faster than a 500w bike would go under its own steam (about 25mph). Hopefully there will be a change but I’m not holding my breath.
I really like the throttle for going from a complete stop to getting out of the drivers way at the intersection is so much safer with a little twist and pedaling. The throttle use stabilizes the rider from wobbles as well. Its nice to have that stop to go acceleration in the name of safety, so the cars are not waiting and being upset with a rider, but also the rider is not struggling. Having that throttle to be smooth on take off is nice. The throttle also is very nice to have when going through busy, slow parking lots. By standing tall on pedals allows me to see over most cars and to be seen is significant, compared to just pedaling. Plus I am stable on the bike. I'm used to heavy motorcycles, so having a 60lb bike is so nice and easy. Fingers on the brakes and using the throttle, stable and able to stop on a dime. I have mastered the safest way to navigate a busy parking lot, like getting in and out of trader Joes just fine with all those cars about, the throttle twist, head on a swivel. Standing and pedaling is difficult but standing, not pedaling and using the throttle is all about control, balance, and being reactive at slow speeds. Its all about safety, and once a person learns to use a throttle the advantages are seen. Here in the states I have a class 2 ebike, top speed 20mph, 750w hub motor and a bike weight of 60lbs. Its just fast enough to stay out of the way of cars and trucks. But its slower than the slowest gas moped or motorbike.
I hope my friends across the pond get more power for their ebikes. I love my 500w and 750w motor ebikes - the power, speed, and range is amazing. The US uses the three-class system for e-bikes which makes a lot of sense - granted there is some confusion with class 3 (throttle vs not). That classification is mostly at the state level with some federal agencies also adopting the terms. The main issue is there isn't a uniform code - so e-bike users are either blissfully unaware of the specific laws that apply or they have to figure out the jurisdiction of where they are riding - perhaps multiple for longer trails. It's a bit of a mess. So, while we have access to higher powered e-bikes, there are many places we can't ride them.
The Bosch Performance Line Speed motor used on the Riese & Muller Load4 75 has a nominal power usage of 250 watts, but is variable & can go as high as 600 watts. But it is speed limited to 28 mph.
5 yrs on and I still have my Kristall E5 350W 48V, and it's incredible! It comes with a throttle and is quite speedy, capable of reaching speeds up to 26 mph. I've also recently purchased a Samebike full suspension 750W at an excellent price. The speed of both bikes was easy to unlock upon arrival. I was pedaling yesterday through Newcastle on the main road at 23 mph with a police car behind me, but they never pulled me over; they simply drove past me.
On the subject of throttles, my VOLT PULSE kind of has a legal throttle, the walk assist is restricted to 3mph when not pedaling but as soon as you rotate the cranks (even with minimum effort) the walk assist trigger becomes a throttle, so long as you are pedaling, no matter how lightly, the walk assist will zoom you up to the max 15mph, its perfect and legal, I thought all rear drive e-bikes were like this but clearly not, but the VOLT is a quality bike well designed and thought through, we just need properly designed bikes, you can also just push the walk assist in the lower power settings at any time to give a little boost, its great
I'm all for changing the speed assist to 20mph, but that's mostly because the bike I bought already does that for some reason and I'd hate to have to leave earlier for work if I ever need to replace the bike.
250watt is simply not powerful enough for hills, 500 and 750 watts ebikes are in abundance in the uk ive had mine over a year and love it, im in my 60s driven a car for 40+ years and now ride my e bike to places i used to take the car, so we should just be left alone to enjoy the great riding experience, and of course saving the planet!
Exactly! bought my first e-bike last year which was an ado air , The one I had was the international 350watt 21 mph with the throttle , just under 16mph with the peddle assist , or so called road legal 250 watt which is just under 16mph and peddle assist only ... It got me out more with my chronic back pain and was really good to be on a bike again and was easy to get up and down my stairs but it couldn't do hills and living in Brighton that is a problem , it only had I think 40nm of torque , earlier this year I see an e-bmx up for pre order from evolve skate boards which had 130nm of torque a bafang middrive which is 750 watt but with the firmware they put on it it's restricted to 500 watt , does 23mph with the throttle and peddle assist and tackles hills like a boss! They feel like I am riding on a straight road I 5 levels of peddle assist and I tend to stick around 3 and 4 which is not that fast but the 130nm of torque makes riding a breeze ! probably the best thing I have bought in ages.... The stupid law needs to change! on the ado air I owned people were riding faster than me on normal bikes when I was using peddle assist only ! especially some one on a racing bike and they are easily hitting 25mph on their non motorized bicycle
Yes, AT LEAST sounds reasonable, but i would say at least 1000W fits better the traffic in 30 km/h zones. The first scooters i tried were small 350W and 500W at a store, absolute garbage, might be ok on an e-bike with pedal assist but not on a scooter. I also tried 1x 3000W single motor, 2x 1600W dual motor and a friends 2x 5000W offroad scooter (hella dangerous and crazy fast, but fun as fk) As much i wanted the 3000W single motor scooter, i decided for a much cheaper 2nd hand "1000W" model with bigger battery since i realised 1000W is also pretty nice and "fast enough" (40-45km/h, around 20% uphill still around 20 km/h easily, below 20km/h it draws up to 2000W for steep hills)
@@harrison00xXx I got a Bogist C1 Pro - nominally 600W but it does draw more - I added 4 more scooter batteries and added a platform to make it wider - now i get 100km+ range... it's much heavier of course, but OK on the flat and will do 47 kmh. It doesn't like hills much though, and I already burnt out one controller by asking too much of it! It's nice that it can be easily modded, but I think I'd go for another model if I really needed more power. It's good enough for now. Luckily I live in a country that doesn't persecute people for scooters, only for their political beliefs instead...
@@ahaveland Ah, nice, mine is pretty similar, just another branding and different battery/motor/controller i guess. On my controller it says: 48V-72V, so i tried a 60V e-bike battery and this scooter was going like 60 km/h easily instead of 45, partially even 65 and downhill 70. I ordered now high drain LiPo cells to make a 15S2P pack, giving me a voltage range of 50-63V ("56V") with 10Ah. The 2 cells extra, paired with much less voltage sag because of high drain LiPo cells should give me more torque and about 50-60 km/h top speed I can pick then if i want range with the stock 48V 24 Ah battery (30-60km) or more performance with the higher voltage of the LiPo pack at a big step down in range (should be around 10-25km depending on speed, acceleration and uphill) But i am pretty sure because of convenience the LiPo pack will remain stationary at home for "experiments" since they can draw like 800Amps short time (800A * 60V = 48kW power!) and the long range is just too pleasing, as said in the first post... 40km/h and above is plenty of speed already as long we e-scooter riders dont have proper and safe laws on our side.
@@harrison00xXx 1000W is probably too much. It's at pro level cyclists full on sprinting. It's a bicycle, The government is probably also trying to encourage people to work out., 500W is probably a sweet spot.
I can see the government looking for something else to tax, I don't need a bigger motor at 25kph and a 250w motor I can get around easily and faster than the average cyclists.I like my freedom to cycle with minimum intereference and cost of tax, testing, compulsary this and that. Because it moves the pedalec bicycle into the world of the moped.
Unfortunately governments do not need to make up any excuses to tax. If they want a tax they can use anything they like: Windows, salt, cooking oil, tea, urine, beards, candles & hats have all been taxed at one time or another. Ebikes should be free of tax and insurance. Vast numbers of people already can't afford cars, motorbikes or fuel, and there is a need for societies as a whole to encourage clean cheap and efficient micromobility options for anyone that wants or needs to make use of it.
Another razor sharp, up to the minute exploration of the bursting future of ebikes. Cracking vid, Eilis. Pedibal? Sounds good to get people on the road away from the car. As for training, what a brilliant idea, everyone does a days training, then quick exam on road manners and signs and then people are equipped to battle with cars. Bit of insurance/licencing might be sensible too, but that is defo negotiable. Well done and thank you.
Back on my day (in those days when you 'at to lick road clean wit' tongue) We had a "Cycling Proficiency Test" and the Tufty club for safety on the roads. Looking at some of the cyclist round my area, some sort of training and a test would save a lot of motorists and cyclists a lot of frustration.
My Magnum Peak T5 has a 500W motor with 20mph limit on throttle and pedal assist. It's a Class 2 in the USA, OK on shared pathways, and cycle lanes and paths, but we slow to 12 mph when passing pedestrians. Weighs 60lbs. I've never felt I need more than 500W. 750W is the official federal limit on eBikes, but loads of models are coming out with 1,000W or more motors and 35mph or more top speeds, and the authorities are starting to take notice of the e-motorbikes. I expect more legislation to cover this area and clamp down on unregistered and unlicensed e-motorbikes.
much as i would like the increase I doubt it will ever happen , how long have we waited on e-scooters to be legalised despite all the it's nearly here after the rental trials started .
They should increase the speed limit to 20 mph, remove any power limitation entirely and introduce a maximum weight limit . 20 mph would allow you to keep pace with traffic (and many normal cyclists can achieve it) A weight limit would be a better indicator of the amount of energy in the bike in an impact.
Policing it... Don't make me laugh. Where I live, in a town in the north-west of England, we are plagued with maniacs on E-scooters, which are actually illegal. What do the police do? Absolutely nothing! The vast majority of policing traffic is now achieved using ANPR cameras. So, if there is no number plate, the chances of being stopped are slim to non-existent!
500w would be great in my area. Very steep hills everywhere, I can't get far up them even with a good run up, so there's a lot of walk assist involved. 7 miles takes me about 90 minutes with a 250w motor.
To be an adequate means of transport the limit should be raised to 20mph not necessarily the max output as electric motors develop high torque from standstill keeping the vehivle light and cyle like is important as you start getting into insurance and protective equipment.
Exactly, we just need more and better cycle lanes, this is a dumb idea but it wont actually cost the government anything, improving bike infrastructure needs planning, money and commitment which they probably wont do
Just not necessary. I think many British guys confused more power and speed means more accident. I do not oppose the helmet issues, and I saw many of low performance e bike riders ignore to wear the helmet. I never do that. But, I saw what the 250W means, because I'm living in America, but also Korean. Korean adopt the 250W and making a speed limit 25kph, and the ACCIDENT was increased past few years. In this case, E Bike need a moped license(if person already has category 2 motorcycle license or 4 wheel driver's license, it is exempt), and e scooter is same in Korea, but as I said, the accident is increasing. So, if the license is necessary for just e bike, less than 750w, why the accident is increasing? It means speed and power is not matter. Here in us, only 53 fatalities by e bike happened between 2017 to 2022. Only 53. Scooter accident is 68. In one single year, 2021, more than 5900 bikers were died by accident. In addition, I'm M2 holder, so no oppose to bike. Means, E bike is fairly safe. On the other hands, the cyclist accident is much worse than e bike, because 1230 people were dead in 2021 single year. My point is, here is 750W, 3 Class ruled area. If British SLOW regulation is really effective, the result cannot be happened. So I recommend think differently. If that is really necessary for safe, the argument about the registration fee and tax is valid, but.. in the Korean's case, it has become more dangerous than before. Means, all the argument is just helping government to suck people's money.
I converted an old Mtb using a kit from EM3EV - it uses exactly the same motor as the 500w - they just adjust the current in the factory. Battery would not need to be bigger.
My 250W motor will regularly pull 700-800 Watts, it is completely legal. 250 Watt rating is for continuous output of the motor, you can exceed this if you want but risk burning out the motor. The present law is just ignored, just like scooters, there are dozens of illegal bikes for sale in UK often with the small print caveat "for use on private land only". These are often equipped with cheap batteries and are often the cause of fires. I have no problem with the throttle speed being upped to 25K, but the range will be poor.
indeed, with Ebike in particular. it would be easy to make this, since the lights, both front and rear can be powered directly by the battery, as for the bell. i have an electric horn on my ebike. toot toot
Legislating max motor sizes and throttles is kind of stupid when you can guy buy a car that does 180 KPH or a Tesla that goes 0-100 in 2.2 seconds. Governments are definitely looking at the wrong vehicles to reign in. Just because an ebike can accelerate faster and get a higher top speed than the wimpy ones the UK has now doesn't mean everyone is going to be careening down bike paths at 50 kph. Legislating maximums because a handful of people will abuse it is draconian in my opinion. And until they start legislating cars' top speeds and accelerating they should be leaving bikes alone.
If you want to go faster or (especially) use a throttle, get a CBT and wear a helmet, the CBT is not really that expensive. The insurance is really the problem, but that's because the insurance industry is messed up for everyone and the(used) scooters themselves come to the same price as a new ebike. Cycles require no license and no insurance and don't have to display registered plates(honestly imo plates is the most important, you can be held to account for what you do), Motorbikes and Cars do. Which means if someone decides to go down a cycle path at 50kph unless the police physically catch them(which in this country ha) there's nothing they can do. That's why they can go faster lol, and cars and (>50cc(really you want something that'll be beyond the A1/learner) motorbikes are intended to also go to places where they don't share spaces with pedestrains ie; the motorway and dual carriageways. Whereas cycles can go in shared pathways. I'm not the type to complain "wah cyclists don't pay road tax"(which is really VED) because Electric cars don't even pay that atm, but if you want to go speeds where you can properly injure someone, there needs to be a system by which you can be held to account ie; registration and plates. Registration and plates are also good deterents to theft, which is a major problem with Ebikes at the moment, because people who steal them can sell them at almost the same price they can sell stolen registered motorbikes(of the commuter A2 variety) for.
@@hazelforest1543 It's a fair argument, but I would wager that if they started requiring plates and insurance on bicycles and e-bikes tomorrow, there would be no other changes regulating how fast they are allowed togo.
@@JaksIRL I mean you do have to have something regulating speed stop ebikes from basically turning into an electric motorbikes with peddles, I'ld argue that no pedestrian wants a Ducati MotoE with peddles and a rider with no training to be allowed on small tow paths. Like arguing for the restrictions on where motorbikes can go to be lowered, I kinda get. The fact that they can't use all the bus lanes(which the gov is talking about fixing) because "they might affect bus traffic"* is silly when cycles are allowed, and opening up some bridleways more would also make sense and allowing motorcyclists** to walk their bikes thru LTNs also is just common sense which most of the TRO's forbid despite the fact they're pedestrians legally because they say moving a motor vehicle into them is forbidden But I'ld still argue that ebikes that can go fast-ish(say >20mph) and that are heavier should classed as motorbikes, Hell part of me thinks that it should be a motorbike** as soon as you strap a motor to it, keeping in mind a 50cc scooter/motorbike can only go 28mph. *Mostly in reality it's because the councils can't be bothered to update all their signage and TRO's from 2008 **Sometimes the government/council's calls them "powered two wheelers" but that's a secondary point. This comes back from when we were in the EU
@@hazelforest1543 The world would be orders of magnitude safer if all vehicles were regulated to travel at safe speeds. I just find it odd that some are and some are not.
@@JaksIRL that's a fair view, I'm not a fan of the idea of restricting vehicles to speed limits because sometimes speed limits are badly set, and also because cars in the UK at least get used in countries like Germany*, and if you give people the ability to press a button/flash some software to remove these restrictions they'll do it(ebikes allready proved this point lol) then they'll just renable it for the MOT *And the autobahn is pretty safe in spite of having unrestricted speed limits
@zoeywyllie1411 yeah I don't really like keeping my legs still, especially because on a bike your legs are offset and the saddle isn't really designed to take the full weight of a person for long without it getting uncomfortable
Electrically assisted bicycles became legal in UK after a 1981 House of Lords consultation which allowed the sec of state to make 'suitable' regulations. (which became part of 1981 RTA).This was because 14 - year olds were (are) allowed in Europe to ride limited power mopeds. This frightened the sec of state at the time so he legislated to allow only 250 Watts and pedal input compulsory (and a minimum standard of brakes) . No new legislation would be required, just a change in regulation which is done with the stroke of a pen. 250 W is no good round here in the hilly West Riding for an aged crone like myself whereas 500W really would allow an alternative to the car and unreliable public transport and a modicum of weather protection..
Motor output power in the UK was restricted to just 200 watts in the legislation that applied until 2016, and full speed throttles were also permitted until then, It was brought in line with the EU in 2016.
250w is naff for steep hills. 500w hmmm bit better. 750w would be okay. Another point. There are so many sellers of 750w e-bikes and more. I can order right now if I want one. But not so called road legal. But what they should do is go straight to 750w. Makes life so much easy all round if they did that. Fat tire e-bikes have tad more torque then normal e-bikes. But end of the day this is a start of things. Plus these means I could buy the e-bikes I like. Instead of all the naff e-bikes.
250ws is fine for steep hills which are mid drive motors and torque over 65NM where the power is directed to the drive train. Not so good for 250w hub motors.
@@badabing8884 my 250W Bafang rear drive VOLT pulse can fly up any hill, so hub drives can also be totally ok, I just think there are alot of garbage cheap e-bikes out there, I never need more power, 250W is fine not just for me, my pal borrows it sometimes and he has limited fitness but never has a problem on hills
Just an outside perspective from Canada where we are allowed 500w with throttle at 32km/hr max My bike is the above. I find i usually do not use above 200watts unless i'm either somewhere infrastructure is poor(the added acceleration makes you safer in traffic) or in the winter when you have insulated pants and boots on. Studded tires front and back. Then you find snow 30cm deep. When this happens 500watts is really nice. In deep snow the throttle is also really helpful to keep you upright. Pedaling through deep snow throws your balance off badly. The only other time i have used the throttle was once when i got sick at work. Went home and used the throttle the entire way (10km). I was so glad i had it as i was terribly ill. I do have one friend who does only use the throttle. Everyone teases him about being lazy, but really he goes the same speed so is no more dangerous than someone pedaling and it is another car off the road. Unless it just hurts your feelings that someone isn't pedaling really what difference does it make. We will never stop teasing him though. 😊
Thanks so much for your update, I am really enjoying your channel! Having lost my car license due to a DVLC error, obviously have been very interested in the powerful motors from the likes of manic 6000 watt CYC & 1000 watt Bafang motors. However was really saddened to learn that anything over 250 watt was no longer road legal and could only go on private land. 500 watt is certainly a step in the right direction however still a long way off from being able to have serious fun.
I lost my drivers licence 13 years ago because of peripheral vision limitations and had to take up cycling to commute. I am now 66 and have bad knees. A more powerful e bike would be a great help. I don't want to cycle fast. I use an e bike limited to 15mph but a bit more power up hills would be great
One went past me yesterday dodging through really heavy traffic I swear it was going at 40 to 50 MPH, all black and the cyclist was also clad in all black, so difficult to spot him, he overtook a line of traffic narrowly missing a car joining at a T junction then shot down to a roundabout, didn’t stop straight out hit the dual carriageway and actually accelerated ! Utter nutter
@@Wicked_Genius seemed a heck of a lot faster than that and I used to virtually live in the car so speeds is something I’m very aware of I reckon about 40 to 50 MPH easy like a motorcycle one of those really whizzy ones
@@stevenbarrett7648I'm sorry ok. I was in a rush to get home my dog had just given birth to 7 pups and was struggling with the 8th my wife called the vet but l wanted to be there, when l got home the vet was already there and the 8th pup was free and was very very heavily coated at such a young age a real shaggy dog.
I've had just one ebike, done 10K KMs over 6 years and always enjoyed a good average speed of 26 to 27KPH, as it turns out thanks to no assist speed limit. I've just ordered a new ebike and this will finally bring me down to 25KPH max assist and I'm not really happy about that although looking forward to bigger battery capacity / longer rides. Having experienced unbridled assistance (200W or 250W, I'm not sure) for some time, I think a 32KPH / 20MPH max for assistance is a very good move. I really don't consider that 500 watts is going to bring about any safety issues and I'm sure in many cases will make getting through intersections and roundabouts a lot safer. Yes, bikes will increase in cost due to needing to be a bit stronger, but there's nothing stopping them from offering cheaper, 250 watt variants if the market still demands them. To sum up, I think it's a good move but please combine it with max assist speed increase to 20MPH / 32KPH.
bikes will not need to be any stronger, I can buy a 2000 watt motor, and put it on any bike that I choose, without strengthenig the bike, and there are thousands of them out there
I don't think you will have any safety issues. And, I have to tell you, probably your bike is quite enough stronger, especially if your bike is made in china. Think about some point; many American or European companies are using same or similar chinese made frame, and America is 750W nominal. it means, probably your bike frame is quite enough strong to accept 750W(Peak 1500~2000W Bafang or similar) power and battery(probably 15~21Ah 52V. The only issue is if your bike is very european specific. And sadly, those type of chinese frame is bit heavy, and the speeding is not quite easy that you though. If you really need a safty concern, that means you will buy nominal over 1500W mid drive e bike.(honestly the torque is really a monster) or more than 3000W hub motor 60W~72W system e bike. In that case, you MUST need a motorcycle grade protection gears, or at least downhill MTB levels, but personally 750W is just a kind of increasing practicality, and not something like powerful like a monster.
Didn’t expect to see you here mr vibes! We definitely do need more. The limitations over here are crazy, imagine if a EUC had a 250w motor? Would be overpowered with a sneeze 🤧
Hmm! I was all in on 500watt motors and thought the opposition specious, but now I have a new perspective informed by ebike experts. I still support the larger motors (I’m 1900mm tall, weigh 90kg) but see the issues now. Thank you.
What does the UK have against Ebikes ..???.. I live in Las Vegas I ride daily on a 750 watt motor, and about to upgrade to 1000, and even then scooters are flying past me like I'm standing still!
I had a 500-watt scooter, it was heavy, and it would do 40 mph (unhooked limiter) and about 20 miles on a charge it had pedals that were only there, so it passed as an ebike
A bigger motor doesn’t need a bigger battery. A 50 cc motorcycle which puts out around 2.5 kW typically has a 3 litre tank. A large capacity motorcycle which puts out 70 to 80kW would have a tank holding around 15 litres, and this mostly reflects the average speed differential and journey distance between fills. If power output determined the tank capacity, you would expect to see a tank size in the region of 60 litres or more. So the battery size of 500w ebike can stay exactly the same, unless the rider wants to go further per charge.
I'm building a duel powered 4x4 velomobile. Limited to 25kph (15.5mph) for road use @250₩. The off-road drive system is 4x4 (4× 2000w hub motors) & will have a top (estimated) speed of somewhere between 30 to 50kph (18.6 to 31mph). It's heavy at around 150kg (330pounds), so it's not built for speed, but it is built for power. It's meant to have the ability to tow a 200kg (441 pounds) micro-camper, and meant for tough off-roading. It's a 4 wheeler, on 20x4 fat tyres, so it should have fantastic grip. All wheel independent suspension, heay duty adjustable, coil-over shocks, The front brake rotors are 180mm with hydraulic lines. Rear brake rotors are 160mm but cable activation, with parking brake. Its a 52v system, but has a separate 12v system running all lighting (2x20 inch very bright light bars, headlights, stop/tail light bar, indicators, car horn, motorcycle horn, windscreen wiper, cooling fans, rear-view camera, air compressor, and 12v, plus multiple USB ports. Being a velomobile, it's completely enclosed. The best part is, it's a scale version of the Tesla Cybertruck. It should be on the road in the next two months. I live far from any city's, so I don't expect any issues with regulations. I expect intrest and smiles as I cruise around with my pomeranian's on board.
I have to state, 500W is never be a problem for most case. Probably some of small local company will issue with that, because they use frame for 250W level, but I bet more than 90% of Chinese ODM/OEM frame and wheel is made for 750W+ cases. So, in fact, you people and Canadians are just ride inefficient bikes that way heavier frame and wheels for 250W. It means 500W is... just capable power, but not very enough power or not an overpower for the structure of bikes. In addition, it is not only for the "moped or cargo style e bikes" but also for EMTB, because many of them are now made for Bafang Ultra(1500~2000W) or other Chinese motor with same level. The only issues are, if the builder is making their frame for 250W only, or the cases of motor(in the case of mid drive) does not apply bigger motors, but the hub motor usually don't have a problem. If you see some American guys mod their bikes with the 2000~3000W motors, you could understand. I saw some of broken cases, but it is not usually problem of frame of structures, perhaps some of parts issues. Simply? most of bike which has "Fat Tire"(20/24/26) really do not have ANY issues to use motor up to 750W~1000W, and if motor is bigger, like 2000~3000W, it could be a MINOR issues, but 500w? I'm really curious what kind of problem people though. Especially, in a stand point of manufacturer, design the frame for big motor and sell that with the many size of motor is much easier way.
if you look at some cargo bikes they already have more than 250w motors, for example the Bosch Cargoline motor says 'rated for 250w but has peak power of 850w"
Here in the Netherlands it is very simple for the police to monitor e-bikes. all e-bikes limited to 25kmh are free to use, no licence or helmet. anything above 25kmh and up to 45kmh you have to hold a scooter/moped licence, have insurance and wear a helmet. Police can monitor this by setting up random checkpoints and the police officer will do a ride test on your bike to see if it falls within the legal limits.
In total agreement with Nick Bailey (4:42). I love my unpowered bike, but am nearing 70, and want to continue riding for many more years - on a bike, not a moped.
I live in Cumbria and use my ebike for getting to work and sometimes even to make deliveries from my market garden. It is perfectly legal, but it just doesn't quite cut it here. I have resigned myself to the fact that there are certain hills that I will just have to walk up. Just a very small amount of extra power would make a huge difference for me.
People who hack the bike were always going to hack the bike so that, for me, is a separate issue. But when selling the bike it can be tiered the same as a car with it's engine. But they would have to include the legal bumf so the customer could make an informed decision. But I think I read that as long as it's on 15.5 mph then the argument for licenses etc is moot. But i for one would like it raised to 20mph because as already pointed out a normal bike can go faster.
No definitely Not! for one main reason. I’ve got a Specialized Creo gravel bike, that is gr8, with some assist from the motor still keeping me fit. If the higher powered motors are more common (as they are more like motorbikes with pedals)new laws will be introduced enforcing All eBike owners to have to register their ebikes, have compulsory insurance & number plates & perhaps motorcycle type crash helmets. If that happens I’ll sell my ebike.
TOTALLY AGREE!!!! I also have a Creo and a VOLT Pulse (rear drive) both are fine and as you say, higher power will mean more legislation, registration, insurance etc. so its a massive no from me too (also 100kg idiots that have no bike sense on 30kg 500W e-bikes with no insurance is a crazy idea)
People already are riding 500+ watt bikes as well as throttles without getting into trouble and damn they go like a bat out of hell. More wattage is definitely needed when it comes to steep inclines, my town has some huge ones and a 250w one would have some trouble. Getting the extra power for inclines would be nice, they could limit a larger wattage motor for non-incline riding.
did you know that any 250w ebike is in fact minimum 500w ? its almost impossible to move with 250w because that's around 5Amps and you are not going anywhere with that power The controllers are 10 to 20 amps for a 250w ebike
I've been riding an ebike with a 500W mid-drive motor that I put into a non-electric gravel bike. It works fine, and it's plenty strongly built to handle the motor. I use a chain rated for ebikes; the motor, cranks, chainring for an ebike; and brake levers with sensors in them. Otherwise it just has standard bike components. In my state in the USA, ebike motors are limited to *less than* 750W, and that effectively means a 500W or less motor, since there don't seem to be any motors with 650W or whatever around. No license or registration required, which is part of the appeal. 500W is needed for getting me up hills at a good speed. A heavier person would likely need 750W.
Complaints about the bike being heavier in a crash........? How many 2 ton death machines are on the roads with no speed or power limitations. Come on people were talking about push bikes, why does everything in this country need to be licensed and put under legislation? Just get out there and ride your bike.
Not quite necessary. Helmet is required even 250W. I think some of CYCLIST has wrong idea of helmet, but you must remember that no matter speed or weight, in the low speed accident, 90% of fatality is caused from the head trauma. Especially under 20 mph. So, whatever speed or power is, helmet is recommended or mandatory. I wear DOT certified helmet, because I already have some of them, before I started to ride e bike or e scooter, and do not like to invest cycle helmet for saving my storage space, but in some case the argument is exist that "softer and flexible helmet provide the better protection in low speed". So, just I wanna talk buy a helmet with the CPSC or same level of ECE certified. I think that is quite enough for British folks.
I think it could be an idea to explore using ‘Power’ capabilities to the target market…if it’s transport aimed at children for fun, leisure etc then power limits might be acceptable…as the expectation of the scooter or bike increases then so should the power…also taking into consideration whether a person has a driving licence (an already recognised knowledge of awareness and behaviours of road signs and other users) and the ages of the consumer purchasing/intending to commute with the vehicle…common sense should prevail…there’s an opportunity for cost effective/fun options for transport here let’s be sensible about it…Please..!😇
So many videos on this channel are about the health benefits of ebikes and how they are as good as or similar to the health benefits for mechanical bikes. If throttles can be legally added, I assume you will be taking down all those videos?
Does motor quality Come into play too? I'm sure cargo bikes would of course benefit when hauling multiple people or lots of luggage but I'm surprised to see people in the comments say how their 250w watt motor struggles to get them up a hill, I weigh around 19 stone and ride my mountain ebike up some seriously steep hills in the forest near me, the first time I went out, I was shocked at what the motor was capable of. It is a bosch motor with 84nm of torque but 84 seems to be the norm unless you get a cheap bike from what I can tell. Personally I'd like to be able to assist up to 20mph like they have in the States, I feel that's about right for someone who commutes on both cycle paths and a bit of road riding. Obviously I'd love to be completely derestricted but need to strike a balance.
It sounds like you ride a mid drive ebike, these generate vastly more torque than hub motor bikes but are generally a grand more expensive which puts them out of reach for a lot of people.
Maximun speed is what is importamt. If you weigh 400 on a cargobike you are likly to burn out motor or battery with lower wattage. There is good engeneering and baf engenering. A fire is more likly with a small battery with overweight.
Why not have an EU compliant 250w category and a new higher power category for use cases that need it. Clarity of rules of the road and an easy standard insurance backed by government would be great.
I was thinking something similar as well. 500 watts would be great for bikes designed to carry heavier weights. So make e-cargo bikes allow 500 watt, but still class follow the same ebike rules. That way, smaller bikes will only have 250 watts, while bigger bikes has 500 watts. I think this makes sense
Because you’ll likely need a driving license, insurance, number plate and require to wear a moped standard helmet and only be allowed on the road and not on cycle lanes/shared paths.
One option is that adopted by many eastern countries for example Malaysia and thats a weight limited. This naturally limits both speed/acceleration and impact damage. The 250/500w argument is a red herring. Most 250w e-bikes sold in countries with different legislation are sold and will deliver 400w-500w using 48v rather than 36v.In some instances using the same controller. The consideration of allowing the use of throttle 'twist and go'' on e-bikes may have less to do with e-bike legislation and more to do with the ongoing debate re the legalisation of private e-scooters. It being tricky to have a pedal less vehicle without a throttle......
I love my ebike, but the electronically limited 28mph speedlight makes it dangerous where I live. It's just not fast enough when I'm forced to use roads.
Like with 50cc being a class of motorcycle, 250w should remain as a class of e-bike - essentially a normal rider on an ordinary bike but assisted. As the owner of an older. Legally throttle equipped bike, I think that they should be legal. Other higher powered bikes should be legal within a framework of simple bureaucracy (if possible) these can have a classification and regs as appropriate. We all know who uses them inappropriately and anyone can see them being dangerous in city centres. Make laws that deal with the issue but allow someone else to have life-changing mobility.
I'd be dead, or have severe brain damage, if I hadn't had a helmet on; and that was when I wasn't using the electric. And without a throttle, I couldn't have got home, afterwards.
I bought an ebike in June 2023 & it is a Cyrusher Ovia. I bought this to help me build up some strength. I'm 69 years old, and I'm disabled. I suffer from ME & fibromyalgia & i'm over 20 stones in weight now because of my immobility. Pre diagnosis of the above, I walked at least 5 to 10 miles a day some days as much as 15 miles. Since then, I have become more housebound, and walking is extremely difficult due to this Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. In December 2023, I was diagnosed with bowel cancer & underwent surgery to remove the cancer, which seems to have been successful. On top of this, I have blood clots on both lungs, so breathing isn't too good. Anyhow, I have had to resort to fitting the twist throttle onto the bike, I only use this to help me set off from a stopped position. Stopping at junctions, traffic lights, and on a shallow accent, I found it impossible to get going without wobbling all over the place until the motor kicked in. This, at times, posed a danger because I found that I physically couldn't cycle straight until the motor kicked in. I understand that the 750watt & the throttle are illegal in the UK, but I try to make use of this bike daily instead of using my car or mobility scooter. I believe that the motor is restricted to 250watt, but I'm only going from the website information.
On the subject of throttles, my VOLT PULSE kind of has a legal throttle, the walk assist is restricted to 3mph when not pedaling but as soon as you rotate the cranks (even with minimum effort) the walk assist trigger becomes a throttle, so long as you are pedaling, no matter how lightly, the walk assist will zoom you up to the max 15mph, its perfect and legal, I thought all rear drive e-bikes were like this but clearly not see here ruclips.net/video/HES5lUy3EMA/видео.htmlsi=nfzdkaZ3pO7oKXDr
@@vaughanbbrean71 I think the heavier ebikes often have a walk assist mode, but my Carrera Subway is at the lighter end of ebikes at 18kg and doesn't have it
The problem for legislators is that no one is going to build an e-bike specifically for the UK market. All the available bikes will be limited/restricted versions of faster bikes. And its speed not accelaration thats the big safety factor. The implication of that is that it will be derestricted. Even 'unhackable' systems light Bosch can be modded. This has happened with petrol mopeds. Most have had variator, fuel and exhaust mods done that mean that strictly speaking possbly 50% of all mopeds on the road are uninsured. What kid tells his insurance company that his ride is no longer an AM class vehicle? None.
250 watts might be enough in a flat country like the Netherlands, but in Britain you are never riding on flat terrain, you are either going uphill or downhill. In the case of British roads 500 watts is adequate. As for the speed limit? You must remember that a bicycle remains efficient up to the speed of 18 mph at which point power is lost through wind resistance. The faster you go the greater the drag. Therefore a speed between 15.5 to 18 mph is perfect and the most efficient.
The U.K. should look at the system we have here in Switzerland Anything up to 500watts and limited to 25km/h is considered a slow ebike… more than that is still legal but needs insurance registration, numberplate and a licence etc The choice is then up to you if you need a faster bike. And yes they police it here, they have mini rolling roads and randomly check. I live in a city so more than 25km/h is not needed but the extra power from a 500w motor for hills means they’re more useable
honestly would just love for ebikes to get quicker, i'm new to ebikes and actually just ordered one on the cycle 2 work scheme. its been said before many multiple times by everyone, we all know we can pedal faster than 15.5mph, and i don't see why we'd need heavier bigger bikes to up the speed when 3rd party ebike conversion kits can essentially help you build an ebike thats quicker than 15.5 and be much much lighter. there's something missing here.
Out here, in the French Alps, the great majority of mountain bikes are 500w to 750w and beyond. They’re no bigger than standard mountain bikes which are chunky anyway! There is very little difference in the motor size and weight between outputs and the brakes are more than capable! These bikes are also used on road, the police aren’t interested in nicking people for this minor infringement of the rules. As the old saying goes, “rules are made to be broken”. Thanks for the video. Best wishes, Colin.
Personally I think 250 watts is fine as far as power goes, my biggest peeve is battery size and cost and a change in the throttle rule would be very welcome
On a country road with no shoulder and NO BIKE PATH, a fast bike doing 40mph is safer than a bike doing 20mph. A bike that will go 40mph doesn’t need to go any more than what is safe for where it is being used. Set the speed limit on a sidewalk or bike path and regulate the speed of users, not the speed of the equipment.
I'm in Canada with a 750watt motor with a throttle and my biggest concern is safety in the opposite direction, if I had less power I would feel less safe. I bike on the road and on sidewalks. For when I'm on the road I want to be fast enough that I don't have car drivers rear-ending me before I even hit 30k/hour. For when I'm on the sidewalk, when I cross the road I want to be able to get OUT OF THE WAY, if for some reason a car decided they wanted to hit me. If I had to comply with a law that made my motor 500 I might be able to deal with it but I don't think 250 would be sufficient? I still wholeheartedly support the maximum speed being 30km/h. But I don't see why it should be regulated before we ask for cars to be regulated in the same way. Speed limits just like our bikes, motor power limits, weight limits are all things talked about for our 20-30kg bikes, but not for cars? As for people hacking their bikes to bypass speed limits, make their motors output more power. Yea, you can also buy 5,000 watt motors online and have them shipped to you, people who are handy enough to do what we're talking about are already doing what you're suggesting, they're building electric motorcycles that go 80km/h. I don't see how giving people access to legal 500 watt motors is going to change those kinds of people.
1. Going faster does increase the risk of injury. But I can do 20mph on my normal road bike unassisted and I'm not super fit. 2. Given that an average cyclist can easily achieve 20mph without assistance, the 15.5mph limit makes a mockery of the whole concept. 3. I would argue that 20mph is safer in traffic than 15.5mph. 4. The EU have been considering 20mph for a while. 5. 500 watts would be most useful for cargo bikes. Particular commercial cargo bikes that are being used for last mile deliveries. So 500 watt motors don't need to be generally available. 6. For mobility assistance a throttle would be useful.
It should be a power to weight ratio rule. Cargo bikes and heavy riders are heavier, therefore need more power to go equal pace to low weight low power bikes.
What do we think? Should the UK allow a 500w motor? 🤔
If the speed is capped at 25Km/h or 45Km/h, motor wattage shouldn't be a big issue.
i think its good for Sober Adults . Yes .
Short answer: yes.
People will always try to hack it and get more speed. i think 250 watts would be fine with a 20mph speed limit.
People always think more power = more danger. But with electric unicycles for example having more power is a lot safer in situations where you need to accelerate quickly from a hazard or because its much harder to overpower the motor if you’re accelerating up a steep incline with a head wind
just fyi i have a 750watt bbs02 on Luna Cycles Folder , with a tiny 4 lbs battery under the seat . So 500watts does not require a bigger batt unless you are going a long way or up many hills .
And in the EUC world we have vehicles that are around 15kg and have motors in the 1200w range so yeah, there is headroom
But in most cases, you have forks, rear shocks, and a stronger frame. So, overall, the more power, then such ebikes tend to have more weight when you start increasing power. You can keep the battery size small, but they as a "general rule" tend to increase in size and weight as you increase power outputs. Might not be every single case, but as a general statement, it tends to hold true that more power ratings = increased bike weights.
500w does not mean you need a bigger battery or a heavier bike than a lot of bikes that are already on the market. Stop repeating this as it is not true. This is a myth created by people that dont understand what they're talking about. My rad bike which is already big and heavy and has a fairly large battery also hs a 500w motor that is limited to uk rules 250w. It is the exact same motor, and im sure lots of other hub bikes out there are the same.
Bigger motor and battery that we already have on legal. 250w e-bikes in UK.
Exactly lol bigger motor doesn’t mean more battery amps/wats needed. Only really need bigger battery if you’re pulling massive amps, more than the voltage and controller and battery can take. Those 250w motors can easily do 500w, most stuff in the uk is massively restricted but well built enough to do more.
You're right.
Many ebikes are actually with 250w "nominal" motors.
Your own comment undermines your comment. You’re saying it’s a myth that a 500 watt ebike will need a bigger frame/brakes/components than a 250 watt ebike and you’re using your 500 watt ebike that’s electronically limited to 250 watts as your argument. That ebike was already built for a 500 watt motor, as evidenced by the fact that it _has_ a 500 watt motor. That doesn’t make it a myth that an ebike that was designed and built for a 250 watt motor and that actually has a 250 watt motor rather than a 500 watt motor that’s electronically limited to 250 watts will actually need the bigger frame/brakes/components that your 500 watt ebike already has. It only proves it isn’t a myth.
You don’t try to alter reality because some people can’t deal with nuance. You teach those people that nuance matters, and you leave reality alone.
@@babybirdhome no you didn't fully understand my point. You are right that my bike is already designed for a 500 and is heavier etc, but my point is that there are plenty of bikes on the market right now that are already going around with 500w motors, heavy frames and batteries. No one is suggesting that these bikes should be banned or anything so that argument against the increasing power to 500w is ridiculous. That is the reality.
As an electronic engineer, I have to disagree with the assertion that higher power automatically requires a larger battery. The same battery could be used but would last a shorter time, and it wouldn't be half the time - as you pointed out, the motor isn't producing its maximum power output all the time, but rather as required when accelerating or ascending inclines. Many 250W eBike motors are already capable of producing considerably more than 250W but are restricted in software to meet legal standards. In practice, the maximum assisted speed is, I find, a far greater issue. Our 25kph cap limits the usefulness of pedal assist. Having ridden in America, I found their 20mph to be a lot more practical. But that's a whole different debate..
I agree 20 mph would be better for general use….pedalling along at 15/16 mph the bike can feel like application of the brakes as motor cuts out..
I got my first ebike in 2012, on the Cycle to Work scheme from a large UK supplier...a Fast4ward Peak..it had a throttle! The law changed in 2016 to disallow them, stupidly, when you can go faster on a regular bike. The throttle was handy when going home from work after a hard shift or your legs were tired out going up that last hill (also a reason for 500w, helps on hills, or if a heavier rider). Wouldn't necessarily need a bigger battery, you wouldn't be using 500w all the time once rolling. Might be a slightly shorter range with the same battery. Other countries allow higher wattage, more speed (20mph would be better to keep up with traffic in 20 zones), and throttles. It's not actually a throttle, it's a potentiometer, a throttle works on a carburettor. About time that we caught up with other countries, same for e-scooters. Nice hair today Eilis. :-)
Unless you have an accident or cops see u not peddling would they really know or stop you?
Depends on how fast you were going. If within the 15.5mph limit, probably not. But the point I was making was that it was legal in 2012 to have a "throttle". My bike was bought from a large UK Cycle to Work scheme supplier. The government removed throttles in 2016 (to meet new EU specs). Now we're not in the EU they're free to restore the rules to how they were, or make them even better.
@@PajeroMark That is great to get back to old make-sense rules rather than following EU dumb bureaucrats. That was one of the best things about BREXIT eh. Good point.
These people don't understand how tired you are after working a 12 hour shift. They sit at a desk and make stupid Laws.👍
I bought my bike in 2015 so I have throttle too. As far as I'm aware the law that came in in 2016 isn't retroactive, so bikes bought before are still allowed to keep them.
More power doesn't necessarily mean higher top speeds. Speed cam syill.be regulated to 25kph, but the power cam still remain at high 500w. The more power should be directed towards torque increase.
The difficulty is that you will have these 500w powered e-bikes used in cycle lanes and shared paths on pavements with pedestrians on them. They can accelerate to 15.5mph a lot faster than 250ws. How do they deal with these - create another class of e-bikes and limit them to roads? We already have a speed pedelec class.
just stop trying to nanny your citizens.
the end result is safety.
let folks know safety parameters. and stop fear mongering type of politics.
It's a bike for petes sake.
2 solutions either change gearing or allow bigger motor with a limiter.
stuff like this makes me glad im american. but if Europe/UK could unify laws that might lower bike prices... then again, too much unity means too much of unilateral decisions by "Western Government"
idk, maybe it's my love of diversity laws. each of our eclectic states habe their own charm 😅
so it's not unilateral unless it's a good law. also, it allows for more think tanks/testing out laws.
@@badabing8884 there is no limit on acceleration for push bikes or ebikes. If a rider is petite on a light bike they will probably be able to accelerate quicker than a big guy on a heavy bike, a motor just evens it out. Why should it be a concern how fast someone accelerates anyway? For Some ebikes and riders 250w uphill fully loaded with shopping or whatever isn't enough really. 500w would make it a much nicer.
@@timscott3027 I think of this more in terms of momentum. A small person on a bike and a bin lorry might be accelerating at the same speed, but they hit different. I think it's the same with the frame. If the bike itself is quite hefty, it's a lot of energy to dissipate if it hits you.
I think you are on to something with limiting acceleration along with top speed though? It's good to get up hills, but I don't see a good argument for letting it go 0-60 in half a millisecond for small riders or downhill etc.
@@mrpsycop3518 You're right that a heavyweight bike and rider will definitely have more momentum, and hit harder. But we have a speed limit for ebikes already 15.5mph or a bit more with leg power. Acceleration doesn't really matter that's my point.
It's 500W in Canada and it is treated the same as a regular bike with the exception that you have to be over 16, at least in my province, and you have to wear a helmet.
And in Ontario, Canada, helmets are mandatory on pushbikes as well. Not as pointless as it might seem, given that proper cycling infrastructure, while expanding, is still grossly inadequate.
Helmets are not required for pushbikes if you are over 16.
I am tall and overweight and in Alberta, Canada. I used to ride a lot, always wore a helmet and I'm thinking about an e bike to help me loose some more weight. My use case is having to coexist with Calgary drivers who are some of the worst. In the olden days, on a road bike on the flat, in multilane traffic, I could go fast enough when required to take a whole lane and more or less keep up with traffic. That always seemed to be the safest option in traffic. If I'm going to own an e bike, I feel like I need enough power to be able to do that same thing of being able get to 40 to 50 kmh. I support responsible riding, compulsory helmets and bigger motors for people like me.
@@lindsaydempsey5683 the name-brand Bosch mid-drive bikes I’ve ridden don’t seem to have any extra drag when you pedal faster than the speed limiter. However, my 70th birthday is fast approaching, and my 250w Gazelle Medeo weighs about 50lb. With the 2” tires at 70psi, I can’t get it much over 40-45kph on a steep downhill. To achieve that sort of speed with a legal drive system, you’ll want a light e-bike with drop bars and narrow rubber. Or start with a legal Class 1 bike and mod it.
Common sense rules.
Most people are already using more power and throttles
Just look at any just eat rider.
As they have to honestly less than 45kmh just isn't enough for going anywhere fast enough
@@deleteduser3455 Yes who cares about the rest of the world who have to dodge these riders. Speed is the only consideration
I live in the US in an area with large hills. I am a Veteran that was injured in combat and have a damaged knee and foot. I was not even supposed to be able to walk without a device and brace. I spent years trying to rehabilitate myself. I can walk okay on pavement and flat level ground. I can ride a bike okay on level paths and small slight hills but I cannot put heavy pressure on my knee and go places where others can. I should say not for very long.
I am over 6 foot tall and almost 300 lbs. I am built like a football lineman. I am of Scandinavian descent and all of my family are large framed.
I converted an old heavy framed MTB into an E Bike. I had to custom build it to get the specs I needed to assist me in pedaling uphill. I ride an 18 inch frame with 29 inch wheels.
It is a heavy built Chromoly alloy frame meant for abuse. I built it with a 2000 watt rear direct drive hub motor. It has a twist throttle function and a large 72 v battery pack and controller.
I normally leave it in pedal assist 1 or not at all on flat bike trails. If I am riding in town on city streets I leave it in P1 and use the throttle assist to quickly move me out and through intersections for safety.
If I come up to a large steep hill I can bump up the pedal assist or use the throttle until I get over the hill.
I cannot walk up or push the bike up the hill sometimes because of my injuries.
A common E bike on the market with a 500 watt hub motor is not enough to meet my needs.
If they can limit my power specs it would not be fair or equal to restrict my needs and slot me into the specs of someone who weighs 176 lbs and rides on level pavement.
As disabled person, You can use non-stanard vehicle as transport aid. These vahicles are build and tuned to level of disability.
So this is different story.
For healthy young lad - 250W is enough.
@@stanley3647On smooth and level and less weight w/no stops.. agree. ;)
@@stanley3647 and cost an absolute fortune. You are not reading the room here.
@@ahaveland500W bikes - from "proper brand" manufacturers will be even more expesive.
What You wanna proove?
@@stanley3647 Nonsense. I built a 2kW ebike for less than £800 eight years ago using standard parts and an old mountain bike. More power != more cost.
Specialized bespoke equipment costs tens of thousands of pounds, especially if associated with the word "medical".
I'd love a throttle, I'm now disabled but love my electric bike, a throttle would be a great addition when I'm tired.
you can get a 'half twist throttle' that basically doesnt look like you have a throttle at all, you can pretend to pedal while using it and nobody would know.
I'd love that, but no idea how to achieve it!
@@mikeadams2183Hi M... One disabled guy bribes a local auto mechanic.. anybuddy "auto mechanic" in your neighbourhood perhaps? Currently rolling on quickest "street legal" wheelchair built from bike parts. cheers
Throttles rock!
@@mikeadams2183 You have no idea how to achieve that? Buy a bike with a twist throttle. It's a pretty simple concept.
do not let them fool you, i build e-bikes and let me tell you a 500w motor is only gonna increase the weight by about 100-200g, it's nothing. you don't necessarily have to increase the battery size with a bigger motor, you could use the same battery, but for the sake of argument, let's say we increase the battery so that it could go the same range as the 250w one, the battery would be around just 300g heavier, again it's nothing. claiming that it's significantly heavier is a lie and saying it's more dangerous in crashes because it's heavier is just a scare tactic, it's total bs.
P = M x V
A 70kg rider and a 120kg rider have different power requirements, a bike used for cargo too has different requires of the motor so the power of the motor should not be regulated at all. The only thing legislation should manage (and does) is to limit the speed of that electric assistance.
Look I cycle a electric bike at 15mph and a guy on a ordinary bike passed me no bother! Over a long distance I can win, but 15 mph is to slow! 20mph is the perfect speed! And a 250 watt bike struggles to get my 100kg weight up a hill ! I wish I had just bought a 500 watt bike! Other countries it's legal for a 500 watt bike but bloody typical uk nanny state uk no!
I do agree, 250 w is the same for me on steep hills it does struggle I am the same weight.
UK, the only country where you can’t buy full sugar Pepsi !
This nonsense has to stop !
Lose some weight?
15.5 mph is stupid and very risky in london
@shahan1465 so just because it's risky in London stuff everyone else that lives in the quiet places! Typical londonder ! Selfish! Ignorant and don't give a shit about any other parts of the country! How's hs2 going for you?! That's never coming to Scotland!
They sell cars that make 1000 hp and top speeds of 200mph+ and they also sell cars that are only 150hp and 150mph. They both have to follow speed limits. Ebikes should just have top speed limits, 28mph and need to wear helmet and be over 16-18 years old.
No speed limit on the vehicle, just abide to limits like other road users...... ?
Imagine banning any car brand just because they can go over speed limits or because of too much power. nonsense
the source of it is nonsense in itself one grown up instructing another how to live
No, there is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference.
What is that difference?
Why of course the power of the state to take away your license!
And if you speed, then you get demerits and HUGE increase in your insurance rates. And if you have too many speeding tickets, or driving infractions, then the insurance company will drop you, and with too many demerits you will lose your license. And often if you have a lot of demerits, they will double or even triple your insurance rates.
So, this is all about regulations, and using the power of the state to make YOU conform to the law and rules.
Without a requirement for insurance (and the insurance higher rates and consequences of breaking traffic laws), and without a requirement for a driver licenses (and again, with the consequences of breaking traffic laws), then you simply CAN NOT compare a bike to a car, UNLESS you change the laws to require a bike license and ALSO require bikes to buy and have insurance.
This has VERY little to do with that a car or a bike can say go faster then the speed limit, it HOW you going to enforce the existing laws.
With a e-bike, there are VERY few consequences compared to a car when you break traffic laws.
I mean, in that car, or bike, you can exceed the speed limit, or blast though a red light - the consequences of doing as such in a car are VAST more serious since by law you need that license and by law you need that insurance.
This is not about breaking the speed limit, it is about what regulation leverage and force the governing state has over you to conform to such traffic laws.
Moving from 250w to 500w is a great idea, but yes, it DOES open more doors to that of e-bikes now having more risk, more power, and more speed, and the issue THEN becomes a greater requirement for greater regulations. A 250w don't need much regulation since they don't go very fast and they tend to not be all that heavy.
With a 500w limit (and peak power exceeding that), then yes, you do open up a can of worms from a regulation point of view. You need more regulation or at least risk needing more regulation.
A car with 100hp or a car with 500hp both are regulated right now. e-bikes are not. So, it not really about power, it about that both have VAST MORE power then a ebike, and thus both the 100hp and 500hp care a regulated the SAME.
If you allow higher power e-bikes, then we open up the doors for requiring ALL e-bikes on the road being regulated regardless of their power.
So, JUST LIKE cars with 100hp, or 800hp are BOTH regulated?
Then a ebike with 250w or 500w or 750w will then need to be regulated JUST THE SAME!
They don't care if your car has 100hp, or 500hp. However, in near all cases, the insurance rates WILL be higher for high performance cars, and in fact some insurance companies will not even ensure some very high performance cars.
So, allowing operation of a motored "thing" that drives on pubic roads has consequences, and with 500w+ power, then you increase risk, and thus you increase the need for things like insurance and licensing.
@@Albertkallal I dont agree, if you have a speed limit for example at 30kmh by law it should not matter if it is a 250w or 2500w or how quickly goes to speed limit.
I do not mind requiring insurance for a more capable machine, I would never use those xiaomi style scooters near cars / buses / trucks, in my city it simply cannot keep up with the flow of traffic.
A cyclist can go much higher than 500w peak power, it is normal to see BMX racers putting out 2200W+ of peak power and sprint track reaching the 2700w.
We don't need more power, we need more torque to get up steeper hills..
You are right but more power in the motor usually gives more torque - the government can still require the manufacturers to limit the motors power to cut off at 15 mph even if its a 3000w motor, which would give you great hill climbing ability
@@danimayb you can get more torque if you increase the gear ratio, but that isn't useful if it only gives a maximum of 2 mph: Work = force x distance.
You need more power if you want more torque.
@@hetrodoxlysonov-wh9ooNot necessarily, as there are 250W motors with 35Nm torque and there are some that go over 90Nm..
@@drzak0o1The more power the greater torque can be created, it's a simple fact.
Of course a 500w motor should be allowed (kits with much larger motors 2000w plus are readily available). A 500w motor is only nominally larger and heavier than a 250w (some 250w are a restricted larger capacity anyway) same for the battery and well within most existing bicycle’s ability to handle the power and torque. A thumb throttle is particularly useful with a hub motor especially in the instance when you’ve stopped in too high a gear and want to take off cleanly at a junction etc. You can freewheel an non electric bike downhill faster than a 500w bike would go under its own steam (about 25mph). Hopefully there will be a change but I’m not holding my breath.
Yes at 15st I need more power to get up hills 250w just doesn't do it.
I really like the throttle for going from a complete stop to getting out of the drivers way at the intersection is so much safer with a little twist and pedaling. The throttle use stabilizes the rider from wobbles as well. Its nice to have that stop to go acceleration in the name of safety, so the cars are not waiting and being upset with a rider, but also the rider is not struggling. Having that throttle to be smooth on take off is nice.
The throttle also is very nice to have when going through busy, slow parking lots. By standing tall on pedals allows me to see over most cars and to be seen is significant, compared to just pedaling. Plus I am stable on the bike. I'm used to heavy motorcycles, so having a 60lb bike is so nice and easy. Fingers on the brakes and using the throttle, stable and able to stop on a dime. I have mastered the safest way to navigate a busy parking lot, like getting in and out of trader Joes just fine with all those cars about, the throttle twist, head on a swivel. Standing and pedaling is difficult but standing, not pedaling and using the throttle is all about control, balance, and being reactive at slow speeds. Its all about safety, and once a person learns to use a throttle the advantages are seen. Here in the states I have a class 2 ebike, top speed 20mph, 750w hub motor and a bike weight of 60lbs. Its just fast enough to stay out of the way of cars and trucks. But its slower than the slowest gas moped or motorbike.
I hope my friends across the pond get more power for their ebikes. I love my 500w and 750w motor ebikes - the power, speed, and range is amazing. The US uses the three-class system for e-bikes which makes a lot of sense - granted there is some confusion with class 3 (throttle vs not). That classification is mostly at the state level with some federal agencies also adopting the terms. The main issue is there isn't a uniform code - so e-bike users are either blissfully unaware of the specific laws that apply or they have to figure out the jurisdiction of where they are riding - perhaps multiple for longer trails. It's a bit of a mess. So, while we have access to higher powered e-bikes, there are many places we can't ride them.
The Bosch Performance Line Speed motor used on the Riese & Muller Load4 75 has a nominal power usage of 250 watts, but is variable & can go as high as 600 watts. But it is speed limited to 28 mph.
5 yrs on and I still have my Kristall E5 350W 48V, and it's incredible! It comes with a throttle and is quite speedy, capable of reaching speeds up to 26 mph.
I've also recently purchased a Samebike full suspension 750W at an excellent price. The speed of both bikes was easy to unlock upon arrival. I was pedaling yesterday through Newcastle on the main road at 23 mph with a police car behind me, but they never pulled me over; they simply drove past me.
The speed assist needs to change to 20mph too
You can already legally ride an ebike capable of 28mph. It just needs to be registered and you need a moped license
On the subject of throttles, my VOLT PULSE kind of has a legal throttle, the walk assist is restricted to 3mph when not pedaling but as soon as you rotate the cranks (even with minimum effort) the walk assist trigger becomes a throttle, so long as you are pedaling, no matter how lightly, the walk assist will zoom you up to the max 15mph, its perfect and legal, I thought all rear drive e-bikes were like this but clearly not, but the VOLT is a quality bike well designed and thought through, we just need properly designed bikes, you can also just push the walk assist in the lower power settings at any time to give a little boost, its great
I'm all for changing the speed assist to 20mph, but that's mostly because the bike I bought already does that for some reason and I'd hate to have to leave earlier for work if I ever need to replace the bike.
250watt is simply not powerful enough for hills, 500 and 750 watts ebikes are in abundance in the uk ive had mine over a year and love it, im in my 60s driven a car for 40+ years and now ride my e bike to places i used to take the car, so we should just be left alone to enjoy the great riding experience, and of course saving the planet!
Exactly! bought my first e-bike last year which was an ado air , The one I had was the international 350watt 21 mph with the throttle , just under 16mph with the peddle assist , or so called road legal 250 watt which is just under 16mph and peddle assist only ... It got me out more with my chronic back pain and was really good to be on a bike again and was easy to get up and down my stairs but it couldn't do hills and living in Brighton that is a problem , it only had I think 40nm of torque , earlier this year I see an e-bmx up for pre order from evolve skate boards which had 130nm of torque a bafang middrive which is 750 watt but with the firmware they put on it it's restricted to 500 watt , does 23mph with the throttle and peddle assist and tackles hills like a boss! They feel like I am riding on a straight road I 5 levels of peddle assist and I tend to stick around 3 and 4 which is not that fast but the 130nm of torque makes riding a breeze ! probably the best thing I have bought in ages.... The stupid law needs to change! on the ado air I owned people were riding faster than me on normal bikes when I was using peddle assist only ! especially some one on a racing bike and they are easily hitting 25mph on their non motorized bicycle
Yes, at least 500W.
Next question...
Yes, AT LEAST sounds reasonable, but i would say at least 1000W fits better the traffic in 30 km/h zones.
The first scooters i tried were small 350W and 500W at a store, absolute garbage, might be ok on an e-bike with pedal assist but not on a scooter.
I also tried 1x 3000W single motor, 2x 1600W dual motor and a friends 2x 5000W offroad scooter (hella dangerous and crazy fast, but fun as fk)
As much i wanted the 3000W single motor scooter, i decided for a much cheaper 2nd hand "1000W" model with bigger battery since i realised 1000W is also pretty nice and "fast enough" (40-45km/h, around 20% uphill still around 20 km/h easily, below 20km/h it draws up to 2000W for steep hills)
@@harrison00xXx I got a Bogist C1 Pro - nominally 600W but it does draw more - I added 4 more scooter batteries and added a platform to make it wider - now i get 100km+ range... it's much heavier of course, but OK on the flat and will do 47 kmh. It doesn't like hills much though, and I already burnt out one controller by asking too much of it!
It's nice that it can be easily modded, but I think I'd go for another model if I really needed more power. It's good enough for now.
Luckily I live in a country that doesn't persecute people for scooters, only for their political beliefs instead...
@@ahaveland Ah, nice, mine is pretty similar, just another branding and different battery/motor/controller i guess.
On my controller it says: 48V-72V, so i tried a 60V e-bike battery and this scooter was going like 60 km/h easily instead of 45, partially even 65 and downhill 70.
I ordered now high drain LiPo cells to make a 15S2P pack, giving me a voltage range of 50-63V ("56V") with 10Ah.
The 2 cells extra, paired with much less voltage sag because of high drain LiPo cells should give me more torque and about 50-60 km/h top speed
I can pick then if i want range with the stock 48V 24 Ah battery (30-60km) or more performance with the higher voltage of the LiPo pack at a big step down in range (should be around 10-25km depending on speed, acceleration and uphill)
But i am pretty sure because of convenience the LiPo pack will remain stationary at home for "experiments" since they can draw like 800Amps short time (800A * 60V = 48kW power!) and the long range is just too pleasing, as said in the first post... 40km/h and above is plenty of speed already as long we e-scooter riders dont have proper and safe laws on our side.
Hi a... How much torque as newton-meters? ;) .. from a crowded urban "stop-go-repeat guy" .. "Bike-sized" numbers have blown past 100Nms I see ..
@@harrison00xXx 1000W is probably too much. It's at pro level cyclists full on sprinting. It's a bicycle, The government is probably also trying to encourage people to work out., 500W is probably a sweet spot.
I can see the government looking for something else to tax, I don't need a bigger motor at 25kph and a 250w motor I can get around easily and faster than the average cyclists.I like my freedom to cycle with minimum intereference and cost of tax, testing, compulsary this and that. Because it moves the pedalec bicycle into the world of the moped.
I agree we need to be careful what we wish for
Unfortunately governments do not need to make up any excuses to tax.
If they want a tax they can use anything they like: Windows, salt, cooking oil, tea, urine, beards, candles & hats have all been taxed at one time or another.
Ebikes should be free of tax and insurance. Vast numbers of people already can't afford cars, motorbikes or fuel, and there is a need for societies as a whole to encourage clean cheap and efficient micromobility options for anyone that wants or needs to make use of it.
Another razor sharp, up to the minute exploration of the bursting future of ebikes. Cracking vid, Eilis. Pedibal? Sounds good to get people on the road away from the car. As for training, what a brilliant idea, everyone does a days training, then quick exam on road manners and signs and then people are equipped to battle with cars. Bit of insurance/licencing might be sensible too, but that is defo negotiable. Well done and thank you.
Back on my day (in those days when you 'at to lick road clean wit' tongue) We had a "Cycling Proficiency Test" and the Tufty club for safety on the roads.
Looking at some of the cyclist round my area, some sort of training and a test would save a lot of motorists and cyclists a lot of frustration.
My Magnum Peak T5 has a 500W motor with 20mph limit on throttle and pedal assist. It's a Class 2 in the USA, OK on shared pathways, and cycle lanes and paths, but we slow to 12 mph when passing pedestrians. Weighs 60lbs. I've never felt I need more than 500W.
750W is the official federal limit on eBikes, but loads of models are coming out with 1,000W or more motors and 35mph or more top speeds, and the authorities are starting to take notice of the e-motorbikes.
I expect more legislation to cover this area and clamp down on unregistered and unlicensed e-motorbikes.
I'd love to find a 35mph ebike...
@@CaptainXJ Wired Freedom.
@@CaptainXJ get a mid drive kit and fit it to any bike. I suggest CYC Stealth - very discrete motor
20mph is a good speed not 15mph
much as i would like the increase I doubt it will ever happen , how long have we waited on e-scooters to be legalised despite all the it's nearly here after the rental trials started .
They should increase the speed limit to 20 mph, remove any power limitation entirely and introduce a maximum weight limit .
20 mph would allow you to keep pace with traffic (and many normal cyclists can achieve it)
A weight limit would be a better indicator of the amount of energy in the bike in an impact.
Policing it...
Don't make me laugh. Where I live, in a town in the north-west of England, we are plagued with maniacs on E-scooters, which are actually illegal.
What do the police do? Absolutely nothing!
The vast majority of policing traffic is now achieved using ANPR cameras. So, if there is no number plate, the chances of being stopped are slim to non-existent!
500w would be great in my area. Very steep hills everywhere, I can't get far up them even with a good run up, so there's a lot of walk assist involved. 7 miles takes me about 90 minutes with a 250w motor.
Yes ! Always a NEED for speed 😎
After watching this .. ☹️ way too restrictive over there 🤨.
To be an adequate means of transport the limit should be raised to 20mph not necessarily the max output as electric motors develop high torque from standstill keeping the vehivle light and cyle like is important as you start getting into insurance and protective equipment.
Exactly, we just need more and better cycle lanes, this is a dumb idea but it wont actually cost the government anything, improving bike infrastructure needs planning, money and commitment which they probably wont do
Just not necessary. I think many British guys confused more power and speed means more accident. I do not oppose the helmet issues, and I saw many of low performance e bike riders ignore to wear the helmet. I never do that.
But, I saw what the 250W means, because I'm living in America, but also Korean. Korean adopt the 250W and making a speed limit 25kph, and the ACCIDENT was increased past few years. In this case, E Bike need a moped license(if person already has category 2 motorcycle license or 4 wheel driver's license, it is exempt), and e scooter is same in Korea, but as I said, the accident is increasing. So, if the license is necessary for just e bike, less than 750w, why the accident is increasing?
It means speed and power is not matter. Here in us, only 53 fatalities by e bike happened between 2017 to 2022. Only 53.
Scooter accident is 68.
In one single year, 2021, more than 5900 bikers were died by accident. In addition, I'm M2 holder, so no oppose to bike.
Means, E bike is fairly safe. On the other hands, the cyclist accident is much worse than e bike, because 1230 people were dead in 2021 single year.
My point is, here is 750W, 3 Class ruled area. If British SLOW regulation is really effective, the result cannot be happened.
So I recommend think differently. If that is really necessary for safe, the argument about the registration fee and tax is valid, but.. in the Korean's case, it has become more dangerous than before. Means, all the argument is just helping government to suck people's money.
good luck with that!
i hope 1000w will be legal with accelerator, why not???
That's called a motorbike. As long as you get a license and insurance, you can get that today.
@@nbartlett6538 is there any legal from shelf or diy bike You can register and insure as such?
perfectly legal already just like any other motorcycle as long as you have insurance, a licence and wear a type approved helmet
I converted an old Mtb using a kit from EM3EV - it uses exactly the same motor as the 500w - they just adjust the current in the factory. Battery would not need to be bigger.
My 250W motor will regularly pull 700-800 Watts, it is completely legal. 250 Watt rating is for continuous output of the motor, you can exceed this if you want but risk burning out the motor.
The present law is just ignored, just like scooters, there are dozens of illegal bikes for sale in UK often with the small print caveat "for use on private land only". These are often equipped with cheap batteries and are often the cause of fires.
I have no problem with the throttle speed being upped to 25K, but the range will be poor.
500w, thumb throttle to 15.5mph, mak pedal speed 20mph, lights and bell fitted.
Thats more of ideal situation.
indeed, with Ebike in particular. it would be easy to make this, since the lights, both front and rear can be powered directly by the battery, as for the bell. i have an electric horn on my ebike. toot toot
Legislating max motor sizes and throttles is kind of stupid when you can guy buy a car that does 180 KPH or a Tesla that goes 0-100 in 2.2 seconds. Governments are definitely looking at the wrong vehicles to reign in.
Just because an ebike can accelerate faster and get a higher top speed than the wimpy ones the UK has now doesn't mean everyone is going to be careening down bike paths at 50 kph. Legislating maximums because a handful of people will abuse it is draconian in my opinion. And until they start legislating cars' top speeds and accelerating they should be leaving bikes alone.
If you want to go faster or (especially) use a throttle, get a CBT and wear a helmet, the CBT is not really that expensive. The insurance is really the problem, but that's because the insurance industry is messed up for everyone and the(used) scooters themselves come to the same price as a new ebike.
Cycles require no license and no insurance and don't have to display registered plates(honestly imo plates is the most important, you can be held to account for what you do), Motorbikes and Cars do. Which means if someone decides to go down a cycle path at 50kph unless the police physically catch them(which in this country ha) there's nothing they can do.
That's why they can go faster lol, and cars and (>50cc(really you want something that'll be beyond the A1/learner) motorbikes are intended to also go to places where they don't share spaces with pedestrains ie; the motorway and dual carriageways. Whereas cycles can go in shared pathways.
I'm not the type to complain "wah cyclists don't pay road tax"(which is really VED) because Electric cars don't even pay that atm, but if you want to go speeds where you can properly injure someone, there needs to be a system by which you can be held to account ie; registration and plates. Registration and plates are also good deterents to theft, which is a major problem with Ebikes at the moment, because people who steal them can sell them at almost the same price they can sell stolen registered motorbikes(of the commuter A2 variety) for.
@@hazelforest1543 It's a fair argument, but I would wager that if they started requiring plates and insurance on bicycles and e-bikes tomorrow, there would be no other changes regulating how fast they are allowed togo.
@@JaksIRL I mean you do have to have something regulating speed stop ebikes from basically turning into an electric motorbikes with peddles, I'ld argue that no pedestrian wants a Ducati MotoE with peddles and a rider with no training to be allowed on small tow paths.
Like arguing for the restrictions on where motorbikes can go to be lowered, I kinda get. The fact that they can't use all the bus lanes(which the gov is talking about fixing) because "they might affect bus traffic"* is silly when cycles are allowed, and opening up some bridleways more would also make sense and allowing motorcyclists** to walk their bikes thru LTNs also is just common sense which most of the TRO's forbid despite the fact they're pedestrians legally because they say moving a motor vehicle into them is forbidden
But I'ld still argue that ebikes that can go fast-ish(say >20mph) and that are heavier should classed as motorbikes, Hell part of me thinks that it should be a motorbike** as soon as you strap a motor to it, keeping in mind a 50cc scooter/motorbike can only go 28mph.
*Mostly in reality it's because the councils can't be bothered to update all their signage and TRO's from 2008
**Sometimes the government/council's calls them "powered two wheelers" but that's a secondary point. This comes back from when we were in the EU
@@hazelforest1543 The world would be orders of magnitude safer if all vehicles were regulated to travel at safe speeds. I just find it odd that some are and some are not.
@@JaksIRL that's a fair view, I'm not a fan of the idea of restricting vehicles to speed limits because sometimes speed limits are badly set, and also because cars in the UK at least get used in countries like Germany*, and if you give people the ability to press a button/flash some software to remove these restrictions they'll do it(ebikes allready proved this point lol) then they'll just renable it for the MOT
*And the autobahn is pretty safe in spite of having unrestricted speed limits
I like pedalling but I only use my throttle when starting, especially when on a hill and in the wrong gear
Same here! Something about not pedaling on an ebike while at speed just feels weird 😅
@zoeywyllie1411 yeah I don't really like keeping my legs still, especially because on a bike your legs are offset and the saddle isn't really designed to take the full weight of a person for long without it getting uncomfortable
Electrically assisted bicycles became legal in UK after a 1981 House of Lords consultation which allowed the sec of state to make 'suitable' regulations. (which became part of 1981 RTA).This was because 14 - year olds were (are) allowed in Europe to ride limited power mopeds. This frightened the sec of state at the time so he legislated to allow only 250 Watts and pedal input compulsory (and a minimum standard of brakes) . No new legislation would be required, just a change in regulation which is done with the stroke of a pen. 250 W is no good round here in the hilly West Riding for an aged crone like myself whereas 500W really would allow an alternative to the car and unreliable public transport and a modicum of weather protection..
Motor output power in the UK was restricted to just 200 watts in the legislation that applied until 2016, and full speed throttles were also permitted until then, It was brought in line with the EU in 2016.
250w is naff for steep hills. 500w hmmm bit better. 750w would be okay. Another point. There are so many sellers of 750w e-bikes and more. I can order right now if I want one. But not so called road legal. But what they should do is go straight to 750w. Makes life so much easy all round if they did that. Fat tire e-bikes have tad more torque then normal e-bikes. But end of the day this is a start of things. Plus these means I could buy the e-bikes I like. Instead of all the naff e-bikes.
250ws is fine for steep hills which are mid drive motors and torque over 65NM where the power is directed to the drive train. Not so good for 250w hub motors.
@@badabing8884 my 250W Bafang rear drive VOLT pulse can fly up any hill, so hub drives can also be totally ok, I just think there are alot of garbage cheap e-bikes out there, I never need more power, 250W is fine not just for me, my pal borrows it sometimes and he has limited fitness but never has a problem on hills
In Ireland they did a study that said out of fatal accidents the 20mph speed limit did not stop deaths...Just read this this morning.
My ebike goes 35ph with no issues in the states.
Just an outside perspective from Canada where we are allowed 500w with throttle at 32km/hr max
My bike is the above. I find i usually do not use above 200watts unless i'm either somewhere infrastructure is poor(the added acceleration makes you safer in traffic) or in the winter when you have insulated pants and boots on. Studded tires front and back. Then you find snow 30cm deep. When this happens 500watts is really nice. In deep snow the throttle is also really helpful to keep you upright. Pedaling through deep snow throws your balance off badly. The only other time i have used the throttle was once when i got sick at work. Went home and used the throttle the entire way (10km). I was so glad i had it as i was terribly ill.
I do have one friend who does only use the throttle. Everyone teases him about being lazy, but really he goes the same speed so is no more dangerous than someone pedaling and it is another car off the road. Unless it just hurts your feelings that someone isn't pedaling really what difference does it make. We will never stop teasing him though. 😊
Thanks so much for your update, I am really enjoying your channel! Having lost my car license due to a DVLC error, obviously have been very interested in the powerful motors from the likes of manic 6000 watt CYC & 1000 watt Bafang motors. However was really saddened to learn that anything over 250 watt was no longer road legal and could only go on private land.
500 watt is certainly a step in the right direction however still a long way off from being able to have serious fun.
I lost my drivers licence 13 years ago because of peripheral vision limitations and had to take up cycling to commute.
I am now 66 and have bad knees. A more powerful e bike would be a great help. I don't want to cycle fast. I use an e bike limited to 15mph but a bit more power up hills would be great
One went past me yesterday dodging through really heavy traffic I swear it was going at 40 to 50 MPH, all black and the cyclist was also clad in all black, so difficult to spot him, he overtook a line of traffic narrowly missing a car joining at a T junction then shot down to a roundabout, didn’t stop straight out hit the dual carriageway and actually accelerated !
Utter nutter
Top speed on an unrestricted 500w bike is usually about 25mph
@@Wicked_Genius seemed a heck of a lot faster than that and I used to virtually live in the car so speeds is something I’m very aware of I reckon about 40 to 50 MPH easy like a motorcycle one of those really whizzy ones
@@stevenbarrett7648I'm sorry ok. I was in a rush to get home my dog had just given birth to 7 pups and was struggling with the 8th my wife called the vet but l wanted to be there, when l got home the vet was already there and the 8th pup was free and was very very heavily coated at such a young age a real shaggy dog.
The above consultation was intended for cargo bikes as when fully loaded 250w isn’t always good enough
I've had just one ebike, done 10K KMs over 6 years and always enjoyed a good average speed of 26 to 27KPH, as it turns out thanks to no assist speed limit. I've just ordered a new ebike and this will finally bring me down to 25KPH max assist and I'm not really happy about that although looking forward to bigger battery capacity / longer rides. Having experienced unbridled assistance (200W or 250W, I'm not sure) for some time, I think a 32KPH / 20MPH max for assistance is a very good move. I really don't consider that 500 watts is going to bring about any safety issues and I'm sure in many cases will make getting through intersections and roundabouts a lot safer. Yes, bikes will increase in cost due to needing to be a bit stronger, but there's nothing stopping them from offering cheaper, 250 watt variants if the market still demands them. To sum up, I think it's a good move but please combine it with max assist speed increase to 20MPH / 32KPH.
bikes will not need to be any stronger, I can buy a 2000 watt motor, and put it on any bike that I choose, without strengthenig the bike, and there are thousands of them out there
I don't think you will have any safety issues. And, I have to tell you, probably your bike is quite enough stronger, especially if your bike is made in china. Think about some point; many American or European companies are using same or similar chinese made frame, and America is 750W nominal. it means, probably your bike frame is quite enough strong to accept 750W(Peak 1500~2000W Bafang or similar) power and battery(probably 15~21Ah 52V. The only issue is if your bike is very european specific.
And sadly, those type of chinese frame is bit heavy, and the speeding is not quite easy that you though. If you really need a safty concern, that means you will buy nominal over 1500W mid drive e bike.(honestly the torque is really a monster) or more than 3000W hub motor 60W~72W system e bike. In that case, you MUST need a motorcycle grade protection gears, or at least downhill MTB levels, but personally 750W is just a kind of increasing practicality, and not something like powerful like a monster.
We need more electric unicycles
Didn’t expect to see you here mr vibes! We definitely do need more. The limitations over here are crazy, imagine if a EUC had a 250w motor? Would be overpowered with a sneeze 🤧
Here in Sweden the regulations are even better, we can have 2500w motor, but freespin at 20kph... effectively baning EUCs 😢
Hmm! I was all in on 500watt motors and thought the opposition specious, but now I have a new perspective informed by ebike experts. I still support the larger motors (I’m 1900mm tall, weigh 90kg) but see the issues now. Thank you.
What does the UK have against Ebikes ..???.. I live in Las Vegas I ride daily on a 750 watt motor, and about to upgrade to 1000, and even then scooters are flying past me like I'm standing still!
I had a 500-watt scooter, it was heavy, and it would do 40 mph (unhooked limiter) and about 20 miles on a charge it had pedals that were only there, so it passed as an ebike
The fuss made in this country is unbelievable.
A bigger motor doesn’t need a bigger battery. A 50 cc motorcycle which puts out around 2.5 kW typically has a 3 litre tank. A large capacity motorcycle which puts out 70 to 80kW would have a tank holding around 15 litres, and this mostly reflects the average speed differential and journey distance between fills. If power output determined the tank capacity, you would expect to see a tank size in the region of 60 litres or more. So the battery size of 500w ebike can stay exactly the same, unless the rider wants to go further per charge.
Yesnt, at a certain point you run in to the max physical output of the battery, especially when it's bellow 30%
I'm building a duel powered 4x4 velomobile. Limited to 25kph (15.5mph) for road use @250₩. The off-road drive system is 4x4 (4× 2000w hub motors) & will have a top (estimated) speed of somewhere between 30 to 50kph (18.6 to 31mph). It's heavy at around 150kg (330pounds), so it's not built for speed, but it is built for power. It's meant to have the ability to tow a 200kg (441 pounds) micro-camper, and meant for tough off-roading. It's a 4 wheeler, on 20x4 fat tyres, so it should have fantastic grip. All wheel independent suspension, heay duty adjustable, coil-over shocks, The front brake rotors are 180mm with hydraulic lines. Rear brake rotors are 160mm but cable activation, with parking brake. Its a 52v system, but has a separate 12v system running all lighting (2x20 inch very bright light bars, headlights, stop/tail light bar, indicators, car horn, motorcycle horn, windscreen wiper, cooling fans, rear-view camera, air compressor, and 12v, plus multiple USB ports. Being a velomobile, it's completely enclosed.
The best part is, it's a scale version of the Tesla Cybertruck. It should be on the road in the next two months.
I live far from any city's, so I don't expect any issues with regulations. I expect intrest and smiles as I cruise around with my pomeranian's on board.
I have to state, 500W is never be a problem for most case. Probably some of small local company will issue with that, because they use frame for 250W level, but I bet more than 90% of Chinese ODM/OEM frame and wheel is made for 750W+ cases. So, in fact, you people and Canadians are just ride inefficient bikes that way heavier frame and wheels for 250W. It means 500W is... just capable power, but not very enough power or not an overpower for the structure of bikes. In addition, it is not only for the "moped or cargo style e bikes" but also for EMTB, because many of them are now made for Bafang Ultra(1500~2000W) or other Chinese motor with same level.
The only issues are, if the builder is making their frame for 250W only, or the cases of motor(in the case of mid drive) does not apply bigger motors, but the hub motor usually don't have a problem. If you see some American guys mod their bikes with the 2000~3000W motors, you could understand. I saw some of broken cases, but it is not usually problem of frame of structures, perhaps some of parts issues.
Simply? most of bike which has "Fat Tire"(20/24/26) really do not have ANY issues to use motor up to 750W~1000W, and if motor is bigger, like 2000~3000W, it could be a MINOR issues, but 500w? I'm really curious what kind of problem people though. Especially, in a stand point of manufacturer, design the frame for big motor and sell that with the many size of motor is much easier way.
Maybe separate rules for cargo and regular e-bikes? Cargo up to 500W and regular bikes a more modest bump to 350W?
if you look at some cargo bikes they already have more than 250w motors, for example the Bosch Cargoline motor says 'rated for 250w but has peak power of 850w"
Here in the Netherlands it is very simple for the police to monitor e-bikes. all e-bikes limited to 25kmh are free to use, no licence or helmet. anything above 25kmh and up to 45kmh you have to hold a scooter/moped licence, have insurance and wear a helmet. Police can monitor this by setting up random checkpoints and the police officer will do a ride test on your bike to see if it falls within the legal limits.
In total agreement with Nick Bailey (4:42). I love my unpowered bike, but am nearing 70, and want to continue riding for many more years - on a bike, not a moped.
Ps most of the current alleged 250 watt motors, often briefly peak between 500 & 750 watts.
I live in Cumbria and use my ebike for getting to work and sometimes even to make deliveries from my market garden. It is perfectly legal, but it just doesn't quite cut it here. I have resigned myself to the fact that there are certain hills that I will just have to walk up. Just a very small amount of extra power would make a huge difference for me.
People who hack the bike were always going to hack the bike so that, for me, is a separate issue. But when selling the bike it can be tiered the same as a car with it's engine. But they would have to include the legal bumf so the customer could make an informed decision. But I think I read that as long as it's on 15.5 mph then the argument for licenses etc is moot. But i for one would like it raised to 20mph because as already pointed out a normal bike can go faster.
No definitely Not! for one main reason. I’ve got a Specialized Creo gravel bike, that is gr8, with some assist from the motor still keeping me fit. If the higher powered motors are more common (as they are more like motorbikes with pedals)new laws will be introduced enforcing All eBike owners to have to register their ebikes, have compulsory insurance & number plates & perhaps motorcycle type crash helmets. If that happens I’ll sell my ebike.
TOTALLY AGREE!!!! I also have a Creo and a VOLT Pulse (rear drive) both are fine and as you say, higher power will mean more legislation, registration, insurance etc. so its a massive no from me too (also 100kg idiots that have no bike sense on 30kg 500W e-bikes with no insurance is a crazy idea)
People already are riding 500+ watt bikes as well as throttles without getting into trouble and damn they go like a bat out of hell. More wattage is definitely needed when it comes to steep inclines, my town has some huge ones and a 250w one would have some trouble. Getting the extra power for inclines would be nice, they could limit a larger wattage motor for non-incline riding.
did you know that any 250w ebike is in fact minimum 500w ?
its almost impossible to move with 250w because that's around 5Amps and you are not going anywhere with that power
The controllers are 10 to 20 amps for a 250w ebike
I've been riding an ebike with a 500W mid-drive motor that I put into a non-electric gravel bike.
It works fine, and it's plenty strongly built to handle the motor. I use a chain rated for ebikes; the motor, cranks, chainring for an ebike; and brake levers with sensors in them. Otherwise it just has standard bike components.
In my state in the USA, ebike motors are limited to *less than* 750W, and that effectively means a 500W or less motor, since there don't seem to be any motors with 650W or whatever around. No license or registration required, which is part of the appeal.
500W is needed for getting me up hills at a good speed. A heavier person would likely need 750W.
Complaints about the bike being heavier in a crash........? How many 2 ton death machines are on the roads with no speed or power limitations. Come on people were talking about push bikes, why does everything in this country need to be licensed and put under legislation? Just get out there and ride your bike.
I would prefer staying at 250kw with a higher speed - say 18-20 mph. Maybe a throttle for those who need it
I am all for a 250kw 🤣
I’d take obligatory helmets (I wear one voluntarily) in return for 500w and 20mph
Not quite necessary. Helmet is required even 250W. I think some of CYCLIST has wrong idea of helmet, but you must remember that no matter speed or weight, in the low speed accident, 90% of fatality is caused from the head trauma. Especially under 20 mph. So, whatever speed or power is, helmet is recommended or mandatory. I wear DOT certified helmet, because I already have some of them, before I started to ride e bike or e scooter, and do not like to invest cycle helmet for saving my storage space, but in some case the argument is exist that "softer and flexible helmet provide the better protection in low speed". So, just I wanna talk buy a helmet with the CPSC or same level of ECE certified. I think that is quite enough for British folks.
I think it could be an idea to explore using ‘Power’ capabilities to the target market…if it’s transport aimed at children for fun, leisure etc then power limits might be acceptable…as the expectation of the scooter or bike increases then so should the power…also taking into consideration whether a person has a driving licence (an already recognised knowledge of awareness and behaviours of road signs and other users) and the ages of the consumer purchasing/intending to commute with the vehicle…common sense should prevail…there’s an opportunity for cost effective/fun options for transport here let’s be sensible about it…Please..!😇
So many videos on this channel are about the health benefits of ebikes and how they are as good as or similar to the health benefits for mechanical bikes. If throttles can be legally added, I assume you will be taking down all those videos?
Pure e scooter already has a 500w motor so its perfect for up hill and acceleration but its still restricted to 15.5mph which is fine
not legal unless registered, insured and the rider has a licence and wears a motorcycle helmet.
Does motor quality Come into play too? I'm sure cargo bikes would of course benefit when hauling multiple people or lots of luggage but I'm surprised to see people in the comments say how their 250w watt motor struggles to get them up a hill, I weigh around 19 stone and ride my mountain ebike up some seriously steep hills in the forest near me, the first time I went out, I was shocked at what the motor was capable of. It is a bosch motor with 84nm of torque but 84 seems to be the norm unless you get a cheap bike from what I can tell. Personally I'd like to be able to assist up to 20mph like they have in the States, I feel that's about right for someone who commutes on both cycle paths and a bit of road riding. Obviously I'd love to be completely derestricted but need to strike a balance.
It sounds like you ride a mid drive ebike, these generate vastly more torque than hub motor bikes but are generally a grand more expensive which puts them out of reach for a lot of people.
0:12 HAH! , the editing 😂😂😂
How fast can they stop?
Maximun speed is what is importamt. If you weigh 400 on a cargobike you are likly to burn out motor or battery with lower wattage. There is good engeneering and baf engenering. A fire is more likly with a small battery with overweight.
Why not have an EU compliant 250w category and a new higher power category for use cases that need it. Clarity of rules of the road and an easy standard insurance backed by government would be great.
I was thinking something similar as well. 500 watts would be great for bikes designed to carry heavier weights. So make e-cargo bikes allow 500 watt, but still class follow the same ebike rules.
That way, smaller bikes will only have 250 watts, while bigger bikes has 500 watts. I think this makes sense
Because you’ll likely need a driving license, insurance, number plate and require to wear a moped standard helmet and only be allowed on the road and not on cycle lanes/shared paths.
One option is that adopted by many eastern countries for example Malaysia and thats a weight limited. This naturally limits both speed/acceleration and impact damage.
The 250/500w argument is a red herring. Most 250w e-bikes sold in countries with different legislation are sold and will deliver 400w-500w using 48v rather than 36v.In some instances using the same controller.
The consideration of allowing the use of throttle 'twist and go'' on e-bikes may have less to do with e-bike legislation and more to do with the ongoing debate re the legalisation of private e-scooters. It being tricky to have a pedal less vehicle without a throttle......
I use my thumb accelerator on hills just gently touching it for that extra boost while pedling of course
I love my ebike, but the electronically limited 28mph speedlight makes it dangerous where I live. It's just not fast enough when I'm forced to use roads.
35 is about right imo
Like with 50cc being a class of motorcycle, 250w should remain as a class of e-bike - essentially a normal rider on an ordinary bike but assisted. As the owner of an older. Legally throttle equipped bike, I think that they should be legal. Other higher powered bikes should be legal within a framework of simple bureaucracy (if possible) these can have a classification and regs as appropriate. We all know who uses them inappropriately and anyone can see them being dangerous in city centres. Make laws that deal with the issue but allow someone else to have life-changing mobility.
I'd be dead, or have severe brain damage, if I hadn't had a helmet on; and that was when I wasn't using the electric. And without a throttle, I couldn't have got home, afterwards.
Just build your own conversion to your own specification.
I bought an ebike in June 2023 & it is a Cyrusher Ovia. I bought this to help me build up some strength. I'm 69 years old, and I'm disabled. I suffer from ME & fibromyalgia & i'm over 20 stones in weight now because of my immobility. Pre diagnosis of the above, I walked at least 5 to 10 miles a day some days as much as 15 miles. Since then, I have become more housebound, and walking is extremely difficult due to this Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. In December 2023, I was diagnosed with bowel cancer & underwent surgery to remove the cancer, which seems to have been successful. On top of this, I have blood clots on both lungs, so breathing isn't too good. Anyhow, I have had to resort to fitting the twist throttle onto the bike, I only use this to help me set off from a stopped position. Stopping at junctions, traffic lights, and on a shallow accent, I found it impossible to get going without wobbling all over the place until the motor kicked in. This, at times, posed a danger because I found that I physically couldn't cycle straight until the motor kicked in. I understand that the 750watt & the throttle are illegal in the UK, but I try to make use of this bike daily instead of using my car or mobility scooter. I believe that the motor is restricted to 250watt, but I'm only going from the website information.
I just want a throttle to pull away quickly from Traffic lights and junctions
On the subject of throttles, my VOLT PULSE kind of has a legal throttle, the walk assist is restricted to 3mph when not pedaling but as soon as you rotate the cranks (even with minimum effort) the walk assist trigger becomes a throttle, so long as you are pedaling, no matter how lightly, the walk assist will zoom you up to the max 15mph, its perfect and legal, I thought all rear drive e-bikes were like this but clearly not see here ruclips.net/video/HES5lUy3EMA/видео.htmlsi=nfzdkaZ3pO7oKXDr
@@vaughanbbrean71 I think the heavier ebikes often have a walk assist mode, but my Carrera Subway is at the lighter end of ebikes at 18kg and doesn't have it
The problem for legislators is that no one is going to build an e-bike specifically for the UK market. All the available bikes will be limited/restricted versions of faster bikes. And its speed not accelaration thats the big safety factor.
The implication of that is that it will be derestricted. Even 'unhackable' systems light Bosch can be modded.
This has happened with petrol mopeds. Most have had variator, fuel and exhaust mods done that mean that strictly speaking possbly 50% of all mopeds on the road are uninsured. What kid tells his insurance company that his ride is no longer an AM class vehicle? None.
250 watts might be enough in a flat country like the Netherlands, but in Britain you are never riding on flat terrain, you are either going uphill or downhill. In the case of British roads 500 watts is adequate. As for the speed limit? You must remember that a bicycle remains efficient up to the speed of 18 mph at which point power is lost through wind resistance. The faster you go the greater the drag. Therefore a speed between 15.5 to 18 mph is perfect and the most efficient.
The U.K. should look at the system we have here in Switzerland
Anything up to 500watts and limited to 25km/h is considered a slow ebike… more than that is still legal but needs insurance registration, numberplate and a licence etc
The choice is then up to you if you need a faster bike.
And yes they police it here, they have mini rolling roads and randomly check.
I live in a city so more than 25km/h is not needed but the extra power from a 500w motor for hills means they’re more useable
Same in the UK already.
@@george-ev1dq you can run a 1000w ebike in the U.K. with a plate and insurance?
@@GarethDix Yes, it is classed as a motorcycle, you will also need a licence and a motorcycle helmet.
honestly would just love for ebikes to get quicker, i'm new to ebikes and actually just ordered one on the cycle 2 work scheme. its been said before many multiple times by everyone, we all know we can pedal faster than 15.5mph, and i don't see why we'd need heavier bigger bikes to up the speed when 3rd party ebike conversion kits can essentially help you build an ebike thats quicker than 15.5 and be much much lighter. there's something missing here.
Out here, in the French Alps, the great majority of mountain bikes are 500w to 750w and beyond. They’re no bigger than standard mountain bikes which are chunky anyway! There is very little difference in the motor size and weight between outputs and the brakes are more than capable! These bikes are also used on road, the police aren’t interested in nicking people for this minor infringement of the rules. As the old saying goes, “rules are made to be broken”. Thanks for the video. Best wishes, Colin.
Personally I think 250 watts is fine as far as power goes, my biggest peeve is battery size and cost and a change in the throttle rule would be very welcome
Totally caught “Queen”! Nice detail ;)
On a country road with no shoulder and NO BIKE PATH, a fast bike doing 40mph is safer than a bike doing 20mph. A bike that will go 40mph doesn’t need to go any more than what is safe for where it is being used. Set the speed limit on a sidewalk or bike path and regulate the speed of users, not the speed of the equipment.
I'm in Canada with a 750watt motor with a throttle and my biggest concern is safety in the opposite direction, if I had less power I would feel less safe. I bike on the road and on sidewalks. For when I'm on the road I want to be fast enough that I don't have car drivers rear-ending me before I even hit 30k/hour. For when I'm on the sidewalk, when I cross the road I want to be able to get OUT OF THE WAY, if for some reason a car decided they wanted to hit me. If I had to comply with a law that made my motor 500 I might be able to deal with it but I don't think 250 would be sufficient?
I still wholeheartedly support the maximum speed being 30km/h. But I don't see why it should be regulated before we ask for cars to be regulated in the same way. Speed limits just like our bikes, motor power limits, weight limits are all things talked about for our 20-30kg bikes, but not for cars?
As for people hacking their bikes to bypass speed limits, make their motors output more power. Yea, you can also buy 5,000 watt motors online and have them shipped to you, people who are handy enough to do what we're talking about are already doing what you're suggesting, they're building electric motorcycles that go 80km/h. I don't see how giving people access to legal 500 watt motors is going to change those kinds of people.
1. Going faster does increase the risk of injury. But I can do 20mph on my normal road bike unassisted and I'm not super fit.
2. Given that an average cyclist can easily achieve 20mph without assistance, the 15.5mph limit makes a mockery of the whole concept.
3. I would argue that 20mph is safer in traffic than 15.5mph.
4. The EU have been considering 20mph for a while.
5. 500 watts would be most useful for cargo bikes. Particular commercial cargo bikes that are being used for last mile deliveries. So 500 watt motors don't need to be generally available.
6. For mobility assistance a throttle would be useful.
It should be a power to weight ratio rule. Cargo bikes and heavy riders are heavier, therefore need more power to go equal pace to low weight low power bikes.