My JW mother-in-law told me once that she was so glad the had the Elders "to keep the congregation clean". I about fell over. ELDERS KEEP THE CONGREGATION CLEAN? no....NOOOO! The blood of Jesus is what keeps us clean, not men. Do the Elders wash you and keep you clean? No!. Jesus already did that. Elders can help to keep us in check, but they DON'T MAKE US CLEAN. That is just ridiculous.
Nice work. I got disfellowshipped for refusing to stop associating with a disfellowshipped friend. Fortunately my jw mom and dad called me that very day and told me nothing was going to change in the family and nothing did so I avoided the shunning. Anyone else that shunned me I didn't care, I had lots of friends, old and new. So I got pretty lucky. Some stories I read about shunning are frightening. They totally read 2 John to me as well, because it was known that is been attending other churches. I just laughed at them and said everyone else says that about the kingdom hall lol.
Go watch the videos of the JW elders testifying in front of the Australian Royal Commission. At one point, they're talking about what happens when a young woman is molested and the elders take no action because he didn't confess, and she couldn't provide two witnesses. Living in the congregation with her abuser becomes untenable, so she leaves. The investigator asks what they would do. The answer? Disfellowship. When he asked for their reasoning behind DFing the victim, they said "she abandoned us first". Pretty much says it all.
@@aCatholicOne Is this comment intended for me? I've never been a JW, so can't be an ex-JW, but I agree that it's great to see former members sharing their experiences.
I apologize, I thought you were an Ex-JW haha. This channel has very good information on what JW's believe in and how the true Gospel of God condemns it, feel free to give it a watch.@@evanwindom3265
They also removed the passage from the NWT in John 8:1-11 how Christ forgave the woman caught in the act of adultery and told her to “ go and sin no more”. They start of John 8 in verse 12. I mean I knew they paraphrase and added but that was pretty full blown when I compared it to other Bible translations.
@rajakrishnapachumootoo; the problem is that the Watchtower Society has taken certain Bible verses about disfellowshipping out of context and twisting them to mean something that they don't.
I believe if you look at 2 Corinthians Paul tells the congregation they were too harsh on that dude. Remember whenever JWs talk about helping df'd ones they're talking about official visits from the elders and always two of them. When I had quit before I got disfellowshipped an elder friend called and asked if he could come over for a visit. I said sure I'd like that. Then he says he was bringing asking wither elder and I said wait a minute... If you want to come over as my friend, you're more than welcome. If you're coming over for congregation business forget it. Of course he didn't come over.
Lamicizia ALL'INTERNO della congregazione e solo un paravento non esiste la vera amicizia quello che accomuna tutti e la societa WATCHTOWER ,lei ti rende amico quando ragioni con la sua testa ,lei ti rende nemico quando ragioni con la tua testa ,da L'ITALIA SALUTI.
Really a good presentation. But you missed the thing proving that to turn your back on anyone is a personal and not a collective decision. "Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many." 2 Corinthians 2:6 This "many" is not all and is thereby not a collective arrangement. All in accordance to the scriptures you mentioned but conflicting with your agreement with a churchly punishment. Thanks anyway and respect and love to you.
The word of God if followed is more powerful than the blood of jessus because if you sin you have to repent ,if you do not repent ,blood of christ do not have any effect you are lost ,it is christ by means of apostle paul that has consigne that in 1 cor ch2+2cor ch5 to be adopted in case ofsins and not repentance.
Here is what Jesus told to do when a "brother" shows unrepentance toward a serious wrong committed between "brothers": "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more (who were also witnesses to the wrong), so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."(Matt 18:15-17) And how were "a man of the nations and as a tax collector" treated when Jesus said this ? The apostle Peter told the Roman army officer Cornelius: "You well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or approach a man of another race".(Acts 10:28) So, Jews did not associate with Gentiles in any form or fashion, not even approaching them for a conversation, until the year 36 C.E., when Jehovah God revealed to Peter that this was no longer the case. And what about dealing with a tax collector ? At Matthew 9:11, when Jesus was dining at the tax collector Matthew Levi's home, visiting Pharisees said to Jesus disciples: "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners ?" And at Matthew 11:19, in comparing that generation, he said of how the Jews viewed tax collectors: "The Son of man did come eating and drinking, but people say, ‘Look ! A man who is a glutton and is given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners." At 1 Corinthians 5, the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthian elders: "In my letter I wrote you to stop keeping company with sexually immoral people.........I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside ? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside ? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”(1 Cor 5:9, 11-13) So, Jesus words at Matthew 18:15-17 now has much more meaning, so that anyone who does not show true repentance of his wrong, but continues pursuing his own deviant course, is to be completely avoided after they have been disfellowshipped, as the apostle John wrote at 2 John 9-11: "Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching (after they are put out of the Christian congregation), do NOT receive him into your homes or SAY a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a SHARER in his wicked works."
@@LightoverDarkMinistry I watched the video for a several minutes, but I don't need to watch the whole video to know what Jehovah loves and what he hates, for the Bible clearly outlines this. Would Jesus have watched the video ? The answer is no, for he knows exactly what pleases Jehovah and what does not. When the nation of Israel proved to be incorrigible, Jehovah "disfellowshipped" them, replacing them with a new spiritual nation that consists of both Jews and Gentiles, as Jesus clearly stated at Matthew 21:42-44 and 23:37-39. Thus, what Jesus said at Matthew 18:15-17, what the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians at 1 Corinthians 5:13, and what the apostle John wrote at 2 John 9-11 is the "specs" of how to deal with someone who is unrepentant. Need I say more ?
The JWs preach that the old law was replaced by a law of love. Although their actions of psychologically torturing people into submission and their clear salivation over holding sway of power over those they presumptuously lord it over and pass judgement on, does tend to make them Eager to cherry pick scriptures that seem to validate their spiritually abusive behaviour toward the flock.
@@cornypinkuni9519 no scripture should be ignored. the bible says remove the wicked man from among you and that means not eating nor drinking with that person. But it never means any complete shunning. there is always love to show everyone per God and Jesus
Here is what Jesus told to do when a "brother" shows unrepentance toward a serious wrong committed between "brothers": "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more (who were also witnesses to the wrong), so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."(Matt 18:15-17) And how were "a man of the nations and as a tax collector" treated when Jesus said this ? The apostle Peter told the Roman army officer Cornelius: "You well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or approach a man of another race".(Acts 10:28) So, Jews did not associate with Gentiles in any form or fashion, not even approaching them for a conversation, until the year 36 C.E., when Jehovah God revealed to Peter that this was no longer the case. And what about dealing with a tax collector ? At Matthew 9:11, when Jesus was dining at the tax collector Matthew Levi's home, visiting Pharisees said to Jesus disciples: "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners ?" And at Matthew 11:19, in comparing that generation, he said of how the Jews viewed tax collectors: "The Son of man did come eating and drinking, but people say, ‘Look ! A man who is a glutton and is given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners." At 1 Corinthians 5, the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthian elders: "In my letter I wrote you to stop keeping company with sexually immoral people.........I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside ? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside ? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”(1 Cor 5:9, 11-13) So, Jesus words at Matthew 18:15-17 now has much more meaning, so that anyone who does not show true repentance of his wrong, but continues pursuing his own deviant course, is to be completely avoided after they have been disfellowshipped, as the apostle John wrote at 2 John 9-11: "Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching (after they are put out of the Christian congregation), do NOT receive him into your homes or SAY a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a SHARER in his wicked works."
Bel discorso bibblico ,spiega perche la COMMISSIONE REALE AUSTRALIANA HA condannato la società Watchtower per regole disgustosa per persone che si definiscono spirituali e proteggono i pedofili incolpando le vittime 1006 casi stabilito dalla commissione reale non una sola denuncia poi spiega se sei a conoscenza (ma credo di no )Belgio Olanda Nuova Zelanda Gran Bretagna la polizia ha fatto irruzione nelle FILIARI per accedere a documenti segreti sulla pedofilia nascosta, in America gli 8 unti del signore si son dovuti presentare in tribunale per spiegare regole assurde sugli abusi dei minori e poi si disassocia per fumo .da L'ITALIA SALUTI.
Yes! -- Jehovah's Witness disfellowshipping is profoundly biblical. . Consider this end time prophecy that can ONLY be fulfilled by Jehovah's Witnesses: . Isaiah 66:5 Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.” . [Name of person] is no longer one of JEHOVAH's Witnesses ---->> excluding YOU by reason of MY NAME . What Jehovah said would happen, is really happening! . We really are living during the time of the end. . .
This example you tried to use is a perfect example of cherry picking. And if disfellowshiping were a biblical teaching (even tho that word isn’t used in the Bible) that would just cause division between the teachings of YHVH and Jesus
@@mmltpb14 Compare what Jehovah said in Isaiah 66:5 above to what Jesus Christ himself said: . Luke 6:22-23 HAPPY are YOU whenever men HATE YOU, and whenever they EXCLUDE YOU and reproach YOU and cast out YOUR name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man. 23 REJOICE in that day . [NAME OF PERSON] is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses ---->> and cast out YOUR NAME . HATED + EXCLUDED = REJOICE . Isaiah 66:5 Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are HATING YOU, that are EXCLUDING YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with REJOICING on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.” . [Name of person] is no longer one of JEHOVAH's Witnesses ---->> excluding YOU by reason of MY NAME . The same thing! . HATED + EXCLUDED = REJOICE . Both Jehovah and Jesus agree! . Would you like me to show you where the Greek word for "excommunication" is used in the bible? . .
@@isaiah30v8 yet another example of cherry picking. Tell me which group (JW or exjw) hates the other THE most??? Which group proclaimed war on the other?? If disfellowshipping was biblical(which again that word isn’t used in the Bible) then your “math” would show that members of the exjw community would be more joyful AND those HATED members by the JW’s would enter into the kingdom as described by Jesus
@@mmltpb14 ---- It is my conviction that disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones "taken along" while those still going to the kingdom halls have been "abandoned". . Matthew 24:39-42 and THEY TOOK NO NOTE until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. ** THEN ** two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming. . Ask any Jehovah's Witness to carefully examine every family in their kingdom hall. . Anyone missing? . The wheat is being separated from the weeds! . Those EX-JWs being hated by their brothers and their own families are the ones who will rejoice. . Matthew 10:35-36 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. . . What Jesus Christ said would happen, is now really happening! . .I'm disfellowshipped and I am HAPPY. . Revelation 16:15 “Look! I am coming as a thief. HAPPY is the one that stays awake and keeps his outer garments, that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.” . Disfelowshipped Jehovah's Witnesses are in the process of being saved. They are the wheat that is being harvested during this time of the end. .
@@mmltpb14 --- Here, I cherry picked yet another scripture about disfellowshipping: . Romans 9:25-26 It is as he says also in Ho·se´a: “Those not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved ‘beloved’; 26 and in the place where it was said to them, ‘YOU are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” . [Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses ---->> ‘YOU are not my people,’ . Keep reading in Romans Chapter 9: . Romans 9:27-28 Moreover, Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Although the number of the sons of Israel may be as the sand of the sea, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED. 28 For Jehovah will make an accounting on the earth, concluding it and cutting it short.” . So far, that is three examples which, prove that DISFELLOWSHIPPING IS BIBLICAL. . .
The problem here is judging God by human standards. The disfellowshipping/shunning action is a *Bible principle.* 1 Corinthians 5:9- 13 New International Version *9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with* sexually immoral people- 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. *11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister c but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.* 12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. *“Expel the wicked person from among you.”* d The reason for shunning is explained clearly in verse 6 1 Corinthians 5:6 New International Version 6Your boasting is not good. *Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?* It's a well known principle..."1 bad apple spoils the barrel". People used to say "Watch the company you keep" because "you become what you surround yourself with". 1 Corinthians 15:33 English Standard Version Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.” Medically that principle holds true also, an infectious person is isolated to protect others. Leviticus 13:1-4 New International Version 1The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 2“When anyone has a swelling or a rash or a shiny spot on their skin that may be a defiling skin disease, a they must be brought to Aaron the priest or to one of his sons b who is a priest. 3The priest is to examine the sore on the skin, and if the hair in the sore has turned white and the sore appears to be more than skin deep, it is a defiling skin disease. When the priest examines that person, he shall pronounce them ceremonially unclean. 4If the shiny spot on the skin is white but does not appear to be more than skin deep and the hair in it has not turned white, the priest is to *isolate the affected person for seven days* The bible encourages ONLY a spiritually corruptive/infectious person to be isolated. Love should still be shown to other members of the family etc. One thing people always forget about shunning is who the person is isolated from. The elders in the congregation are still available to assist the person to recover from spiritual sickness. James 5:14,15,19,20 New International Version 14Is anyone among you sick? *Let them call the elders* of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 19My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins. In real life when a person is severely ill they are isolated in hospital. Family and friends have to keep away socially and only those medically trained have contact with the patient. *The whole process of 'shunning' or quarantining is rooted in LOVE not hate.* This principle of ISOLATION is seen in nature with decay, medically with infection, and religiously when dealing with loss of morality. It demonstrates understanding of human nature and interaction at a higher level. Isaiah 48:17 New International Version This is what the LORD says- your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: *“I am the LORD your God, who teaches you what is best for you,* who directs you in the way you should go. :)
You clearly didn't watch the video. Also there is a difference between someone who struggles with sin and someone who is biologically sick. Trying to draw a comparison to the two by your own reasoning is not Biblical nor even logical. The Bible is clear how to treat someone in sin, which I showed.
@@LightoverDarkMinistry Jesus himself drew the same comparison... Luke 5:31,32 New International Version 31Jesus answered them, *“It is not the healthy who need a doctor,* but the sick. *32I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”*
@@mo2874 yes, and like I said in the video doctors see their patients, not refuse to talk to them. You’re trying to make some comparisons that a sinner should be treated like a leaper, which is what the pharisees were doing. You’re a sinner, is your sin not as great as another?
@@LightoverDarkMinistry You'll notice that I used the bible each and every time, so none of this is personal for me. Its the thoughts in the bible...which obviously I agree with. I'm not the Judge
@@mo2874 notice how I did an entire video using the Bible, should I repost all those scriptures and the reasoning behind it? Let me ask you, my wife left after reading the Bible, now loves Jesus, and has a deeper love of God than before. She didn’t leave out of sinning, and wasn’t even baptized, but shunned by all her friends and family. Is that Biblical?
My JW mother-in-law told me once that she was so glad the had the Elders "to keep the congregation clean". I about fell over. ELDERS KEEP THE CONGREGATION CLEAN? no....NOOOO! The blood of Jesus is what keeps us clean, not men. Do the Elders wash you and keep you clean? No!. Jesus already did that. Elders can help to keep us in check, but they DON'T MAKE US CLEAN. That is just ridiculous.
Amen. Definitely use that double no, and be sure that second “no” really reveals all that passionate frustration.
They're not about keeping the congregation clean. They're keeping the congregation homogeneous. Compliance and unity above truth.
@@evanwindom3265Bingo
My aunt said the same thing she said that they are trying to keep the organization clean
Nice work. I got disfellowshipped for refusing to stop associating with a disfellowshipped friend. Fortunately my jw mom and dad called me that very day and told me nothing was going to change in the family and nothing did so I avoided the shunning. Anyone else that shunned me I didn't care, I had lots of friends, old and new. So I got pretty lucky. Some stories I read about shunning are frightening. They totally read 2 John to me as well, because it was known that is been attending other churches. I just laughed at them and said everyone else says that about the kingdom hall lol.
Fantastic presentation. They even do this to you if you don't believe their doctrine anymore. Disgusting behaviour.
All different churches including exjws are working for who and what is their future according to the Bible Mathew 7;21-23,1JOHN 4;1?????????
@@vusimngomezulu2500 you are right, the JW's have been false prophets. Good point.
Should You Shun? (14 minutes 31 seconds) ruclips.net/video/fuVnMIvFzsc/видео.html
Go watch the videos of the JW elders testifying in front of the Australian Royal Commission. At one point, they're talking about what happens when a young woman is molested and the elders take no action because he didn't confess, and she couldn't provide two witnesses. Living in the congregation with her abuser becomes untenable, so she leaves. The investigator asks what they would do. The answer? Disfellowship. When he asked for their reasoning behind DFing the victim, they said "she abandoned us first". Pretty much says it all.
Disgusting!
I love seeing fellow Ex-JWs being alright with watching apologetic videos. Keep watching his videos, there is still a loooong journey too go.
@@aCatholicOne Is this comment intended for me? I've never been a JW, so can't be an ex-JW, but I agree that it's great to see former members sharing their experiences.
Oh-@@evanwindom3265
I apologize, I thought you were an Ex-JW haha. This channel has very good information on what JW's believe in and how the true Gospel of God condemns it, feel free to give it a watch.@@evanwindom3265
They also removed the passage from the NWT in John 8:1-11 how Christ forgave the woman caught in the act of adultery and told her to “ go and sin no more”. They start of John 8 in verse 12. I mean I knew they paraphrase and added but that was pretty full blown when I compared it to other Bible translations.
SALLIE B196.but it is the same jessus that has inspired apostle Paul to put that instruction in 1cor ch2 and 2 cor ch 5..
@rajakrishnapachumootoo; the problem is that the Watchtower Society has taken certain Bible verses about disfellowshipping out of context and twisting them to mean something that they don't.
Excellent. Brought a tear to my eye to really see the truth about the Bible and how it is twisted so badly by JW leaders.
Psychological torture. Yep, going through it for the last 2 years, and no end in sight.
So sorry to hear that. Anything I can do, let me know.
I was retaliated against starting in preschool for reporting Jesuit Freemasonic abuse and treated like I was to blame.
Logical and excellent explanation 👍
All different churches including exjws are working for who and what is their future according to the Bible Mathew 7;21-23,1JOHN 4;1??‽?????
Excellent - well said! 💖
I believe if you look at 2 Corinthians Paul tells the congregation they were too harsh on that dude. Remember whenever JWs talk about helping df'd ones they're talking about official visits from the elders and always two of them. When I had quit before I got disfellowshipped an elder friend called and asked if he could come over for a visit. I said sure I'd like that. Then he says he was bringing asking wither elder and I said wait a minute... If you want to come over as my friend, you're more than welcome. If you're coming over for congregation business forget it. Of course he didn't come over.
Lamicizia ALL'INTERNO della congregazione e solo un paravento non esiste la vera amicizia quello che accomuna tutti e la societa WATCHTOWER ,lei ti rende amico quando ragioni con la sua testa ,lei ti rende nemico quando ragioni con la tua testa ,da L'ITALIA SALUTI.
CYGNUSTSP but 1 cor ch 2 speak of decision to take in case of guilts and not repent
YES!!!!!!Preach it brother!!
Really a good presentation.
But you missed the thing proving that to turn your back on anyone is a personal and not a collective decision.
"Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many." 2 Corinthians 2:6
This "many" is not all and is thereby not a collective arrangement.
All in accordance to the scriptures you mentioned but conflicting with your agreement with a churchly punishment.
Thanks anyway and respect and love to you.
Totally Agree !
Disfellowshipping is the opposite of ministry
Wow, so brutal... i hear the Amish have this teaching, too.
The word of God if followed is more powerful than the blood of jessus because if you sin you have to repent ,if you do not repent ,blood of christ do not have any effect you are lost ,it is christ by means of apostle paul that has consigne that in 1 cor ch2+2cor ch5 to be adopted in case ofsins and not repentance.
1cor ch2 and 11 cor ch 5..
What is WWJD?
What Would Jesus Do. Popular phrase among Christians in the late 90’s to mid 2000’s. There was a bracelet and everything.
Here is what Jesus told to do when a "brother" shows unrepentance toward a serious wrong committed between "brothers": "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more (who were also witnesses to the wrong), so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."(Matt 18:15-17)
And how were "a man of the nations and as a tax collector" treated when Jesus said this ? The apostle Peter told the Roman army officer Cornelius: "You well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or approach a man of another race".(Acts 10:28)
So, Jews did not associate with Gentiles in any form or fashion, not even approaching them for a conversation, until the year 36 C.E., when Jehovah God revealed to Peter that this was no longer the case. And what about dealing with a tax collector ?
At Matthew 9:11, when Jesus was dining at the tax collector Matthew Levi's home, visiting Pharisees said to Jesus disciples: "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners ?" And at Matthew 11:19, in comparing that generation, he said of how the Jews viewed tax collectors: "The Son of man did come eating and drinking, but people say, ‘Look ! A man who is a glutton and is given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners."
At 1 Corinthians 5, the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthian elders: "In my letter I wrote you to stop keeping company with sexually immoral people.........I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside ? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside ? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”(1 Cor 5:9, 11-13)
So, Jesus words at Matthew 18:15-17 now has much more meaning, so that anyone who does not show true repentance of his wrong, but continues pursuing his own deviant course, is to be completely avoided after they have been disfellowshipped, as the apostle John wrote at 2 John 9-11: "Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching (after they are put out of the Christian congregation), do NOT receive him into your homes or SAY a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a SHARER in his wicked works."
@@timhaley3459 So I gather you didn’t watch the video?
@@LightoverDarkMinistry
I watched the video for a several minutes, but I don't need to watch the whole video to know what Jehovah loves and what he hates, for the Bible clearly outlines this. Would Jesus have watched the video ? The answer is no, for he knows exactly what pleases Jehovah and what does not.
When the nation of Israel proved to be incorrigible, Jehovah "disfellowshipped" them, replacing them with a new spiritual nation that consists of both Jews and Gentiles, as Jesus clearly stated at Matthew 21:42-44 and 23:37-39.
Thus, what Jesus said at Matthew 18:15-17, what the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthians at 1 Corinthians 5:13, and what the apostle John wrote at 2 John 9-11 is the "specs" of how to deal with someone who is unrepentant. Need I say more ?
@@timhaley3459 Proverbs 18:13. One who gives an answer before he hears, It is foolishness and shame to him.
This one is not all together correct based on 1 kings 13
The JWs preach that the old law was replaced by a law of love. Although their actions of psychologically torturing people into submission and their clear salivation over holding sway of power over those they presumptuously lord it over and pass judgement on, does tend to make them Eager to cherry pick scriptures that seem to validate their spiritually abusive behaviour toward the flock.
@@cornypinkuni9519 no scripture should be ignored. the bible says remove the wicked man from among you and that means not eating nor drinking with that person. But it never means any complete shunning. there is always love to show everyone per God and Jesus
Should Christians engage in Shunning? (1 minute 36 seconds)
ruclips.net/video/TvfY-CVeFjI/видео.html
The Jehovah's Witnesses are not Biblical.
Agreed. However they change their bible to fit their teachings so their followers believe they are biblical.
Here is what Jesus told to do when a "brother" shows unrepentance toward a serious wrong committed between "brothers": "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more (who were also witnesses to the wrong), so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."(Matt 18:15-17)
And how were "a man of the nations and as a tax collector" treated when Jesus said this ? The apostle Peter told the Roman army officer Cornelius: "You well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or approach a man of another race".(Acts 10:28)
So, Jews did not associate with Gentiles in any form or fashion, not even approaching them for a conversation, until the year 36 C.E., when Jehovah God revealed to Peter that this was no longer the case. And what about dealing with a tax collector ?
At Matthew 9:11, when Jesus was dining at the tax collector Matthew Levi's home, visiting Pharisees said to Jesus disciples: "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners ?" And at Matthew 11:19, in comparing that generation, he said of how the Jews viewed tax collectors: "The Son of man did come eating and drinking, but people say, ‘Look ! A man who is a glutton and is given to drinking wine, a friend of tax collectors and sinners."
At 1 Corinthians 5, the apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthian elders: "In my letter I wrote you to stop keeping company with sexually immoral people.........I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside ? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside ? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”(1 Cor 5:9, 11-13)
So, Jesus words at Matthew 18:15-17 now has much more meaning, so that anyone who does not show true repentance of his wrong, but continues pursuing his own deviant course, is to be completely avoided after they have been disfellowshipped, as the apostle John wrote at 2 John 9-11: "Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching (after they are put out of the Christian congregation), do NOT receive him into your homes or SAY a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a SHARER in his wicked works."
Bel discorso bibblico ,spiega perche la COMMISSIONE REALE AUSTRALIANA HA condannato la società Watchtower per regole disgustosa per persone che si definiscono spirituali e proteggono i pedofili incolpando le vittime 1006 casi stabilito dalla commissione reale non una sola denuncia poi spiega se sei a conoscenza (ma credo di no )Belgio Olanda Nuova Zelanda Gran Bretagna la polizia ha fatto irruzione nelle FILIARI per accedere a documenti segreti sulla pedofilia nascosta, in America gli 8 unti del signore si son dovuti presentare in tribunale per spiegare regole assurde sugli abusi dei minori e poi si disassocia per fumo .da L'ITALIA SALUTI.
Yes! -- Jehovah's Witness disfellowshipping is profoundly biblical.
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Consider this end time prophecy that can ONLY be fulfilled by Jehovah's Witnesses:
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Isaiah 66:5
Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.”
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[Name of person] is no longer one of JEHOVAH's Witnesses ---->> excluding YOU by reason of MY NAME
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What Jehovah said would happen, is really happening!
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We really are living during the time of the end.
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This example you tried to use is a perfect example of cherry picking.
And if disfellowshiping were a biblical teaching (even tho that word isn’t used in the Bible) that would just cause division between the teachings of YHVH and Jesus
@@mmltpb14 Compare what Jehovah said in Isaiah 66:5 above to what Jesus Christ himself said:
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Luke 6:22-23
HAPPY are YOU whenever men HATE YOU, and whenever they EXCLUDE YOU and reproach YOU and cast out YOUR name as wicked for the sake of the Son of man. 23 REJOICE in that day
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[NAME OF PERSON] is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses ---->> and cast out YOUR NAME
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HATED + EXCLUDED = REJOICE
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Isaiah 66:5
Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are HATING YOU, that are EXCLUDING YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with REJOICING on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.”
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[Name of person] is no longer one of JEHOVAH's Witnesses ---->> excluding YOU by reason of MY NAME
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The same thing!
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HATED + EXCLUDED = REJOICE
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Both Jehovah and Jesus agree!
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Would you like me to show you where the Greek word for "excommunication" is used in the bible?
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@@isaiah30v8 yet another example of cherry picking. Tell me which group (JW or exjw) hates the other THE most??? Which group proclaimed war on the other?? If disfellowshipping was biblical(which again that word isn’t used in the Bible) then your “math” would show that members of the exjw community would be more joyful AND those HATED members by the JW’s would enter into the kingdom as described by Jesus
@@mmltpb14 ---- It is my conviction that disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones "taken along" while those still going to the kingdom halls have been "abandoned".
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Matthew 24:39-42
and THEY TOOK NO NOTE until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. ** THEN ** two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming.
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Ask any Jehovah's Witness to carefully examine every family in their kingdom hall.
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Anyone missing?
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The wheat is being separated from the weeds!
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Those EX-JWs being hated by their brothers and their own families are the ones who will rejoice.
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Matthew 10:35-36
For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household.
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What Jesus Christ said would happen, is now really happening!
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.I'm disfellowshipped and I am HAPPY.
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Revelation 16:15
“Look! I am coming as a thief. HAPPY is the one that stays awake and keeps his outer garments, that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.”
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Disfelowshipped Jehovah's Witnesses are in the process of being saved. They are the wheat that is being harvested during this time of the end.
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@@mmltpb14 --- Here, I cherry picked yet another scripture about disfellowshipping:
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Romans 9:25-26
It is as he says also in Ho·se´a: “Those not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved ‘beloved’; 26 and in the place where it was said to them, ‘YOU are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”
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[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses ---->> ‘YOU are not my people,’
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Keep reading in Romans Chapter 9:
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Romans 9:27-28
Moreover, Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Although the number of the sons of Israel may be as the sand of the sea, IT IS THE REMNANT THAT WILL BE SAVED. 28 For Jehovah will make an accounting on the earth, concluding it and cutting it short.”
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So far, that is three examples which, prove that DISFELLOWSHIPPING IS BIBLICAL.
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The problem here is judging God by human standards. The disfellowshipping/shunning action is a *Bible principle.*
1 Corinthians 5:9- 13 New International Version
*9I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with* sexually immoral people- 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. *11But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister c but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.*
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. *“Expel the wicked person from among you.”* d
The reason for shunning is explained clearly in verse 6
1 Corinthians 5:6 New International Version
6Your boasting is not good. *Don’t you know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?*
It's a well known principle..."1 bad apple spoils the barrel". People used to say "Watch the company you keep" because "you become what you surround yourself with".
1 Corinthians 15:33 English Standard Version
Do not be deceived: “Bad company ruins good morals.”
Medically that principle holds true also, an infectious person is isolated to protect others.
Leviticus 13:1-4 New International Version
1The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 2“When anyone has a swelling or a rash or a shiny spot on their skin that may be a defiling skin disease, a they must be brought to Aaron the priest or to one of his sons b who is a priest. 3The priest is to examine the sore on the skin, and if the hair in the sore has turned white and the sore appears to be more than skin deep, it is a defiling skin disease. When the priest examines that person, he shall pronounce them ceremonially unclean. 4If the shiny spot on the skin is white but does not appear to be more than skin deep and the hair in it has not turned white, the priest is to *isolate the affected person for seven days*
The bible encourages ONLY a spiritually corruptive/infectious person to be isolated. Love should still be shown to other members of the family etc.
One thing people always forget about shunning is who the person is isolated from. The elders in the congregation are still available to assist the person to recover from spiritual sickness.
James 5:14,15,19,20 New International Version
14Is anyone among you sick? *Let them call the elders* of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 19My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.
In real life when a person is severely ill they are isolated in hospital. Family and friends have to keep away socially and only those medically trained have contact with the patient. *The whole process of 'shunning' or quarantining is rooted in LOVE not hate.*
This principle of ISOLATION is seen in nature with decay, medically with infection, and religiously when dealing with loss of morality. It demonstrates understanding of human nature and interaction at a higher level.
Isaiah 48:17 New International Version
This is what the LORD says- your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: *“I am the LORD your God, who teaches you what is best for you,* who directs you in the way you should go. :)
You clearly didn't watch the video. Also there is a difference between someone who struggles with sin and someone who is biologically sick. Trying to draw a comparison to the two by your own reasoning is not Biblical nor even logical. The Bible is clear how to treat someone in sin, which I showed.
@@LightoverDarkMinistry Jesus himself drew the same comparison... Luke 5:31,32 New International Version
31Jesus answered them, *“It is not the healthy who need a doctor,* but the sick. *32I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”*
@@mo2874 yes, and like I said in the video doctors see their patients, not refuse to talk to them. You’re trying to make some comparisons that a sinner should be treated like a leaper, which is what the pharisees were doing. You’re a sinner, is your sin not as great as another?
@@LightoverDarkMinistry You'll notice that I used the bible each and every time, so none of this is personal for me. Its the thoughts in the bible...which obviously I agree with. I'm not the Judge
@@mo2874 notice how I did an entire video using the Bible, should I repost all those scriptures and the reasoning behind it? Let me ask you, my wife left after reading the Bible, now loves Jesus, and has a deeper love of God than before. She didn’t leave out of sinning, and wasn’t even baptized, but shunned by all her friends and family. Is that Biblical?