I can imagine how this would go down if this happened in my D&D group. "You should apologize for making a joke about my character! My character's fearless and amazing, he just stayed in bed." "Suit yourself" DM rules that the character was instead murdered by an assassin while sleeping in.
if I was the DM I would have said something like: okay then... uhh someone realised who you were and tried to poison you, fortunately the party managed to cure you but you were in a coma for the past session and now you caught up with the party boom if that isn't good enough for you make your own reason, now let's just continue like nothing happened
C is an enabling jack ass who is openly letting that shit happen and will openly abandon the game if his toxic ass friend does. of course hes part of the problem
Yep. Dump A & C and make it clear to C that he is welcome back only if he is A free and never brings back someone who cheats so much at a game that they make it suck. I had a gaming group of 12 that I kept booting people so much that I only had 1.5 regular gamers (1 regular and the other had an unpredictable work and life or he would be regular).
martiansoldier C was something of a side product, I think. OP mentioned they were very non-confrontational. These kind of people can either be really helpful as they want to solve conflicts asap, but they can become an issue as they would do a lot to avoid conflict in the first place.
Just to air an experience. I actually had the idea to play a "Lvl 20 in a Lvl 1 body" character myself about two years ago. With a little bit of discussion, my gm posed a rule set that worked for us. We basically ripped of Servants from the Fate Series, said I was an ultrapowerful familiar summoned by accident by another PC who was in on it. But because my "Master's Mana" couldn't take it, I was basically reduced to whatever level he was. We reasoned that granting me the knowledge stats of a high-level fighter wouldn't impact the game's balance much given I would mostly know things a level 1 fighter was expected to know, just a little more consistently. On top of that I had to be totally obedient to the other PC (Who was a good friend we trusted with the job) so I could be reigned in if I ever got carried away. In the end it was a ton of fun and my character ended up as the heart of the group that everyone liked having around to the extent that another PC even sacrificed themselves to keep him around at one point. Moral of the story is that any idea can work, as long as you're willing to work with your GM and be rational.
Yeah, GM's not a saint GM should take A aside and privately tell him that he has a choice 1.) Stop cheating and be courteous or 2.) leave because his diva ass is not wanted at this table.
If it was me, I'd flat out not allow the cheating. And if he pulled htat stuff with me, I'd say, "Alright. I'm sorry I lied to you. Your character's a goldfish now. Roll a saving throw against death beacause the kid just shook your bag again.
The unfortunate thing is that people did want him at the game considering no one called him out on his garbage and one person outright said that he would take his side if it became an issue.
Me The DM: Some Party Of Players That Finished Their Campaign Comes Down From Their Airship & Starts Attacking You, Roll For Attack & Defense & This Is A Scripted Battle Where You Lose Even If You Rolled A 20 & You Died To Soul Gamble Being An Extremely Double-Edged Sword.
Yeah, the DM is NOT a saint. honestly this is like 90% on the DM's shoulders for allowing it to go as far as it did. You love your campaign so much dude? get rid of the player that's going to ruin it.
Agreed, letting A go that far sets aprecedent for rest of campaign. He did no one any favors by reacting that way, not even A (encourages his behavior)
@@rafotrarran6888 most of these campaigns that critcrab shows have a common lesson in them: the need to get out of that situation, even at risk of offending someone. If the price of this game was offending one person, and his buddy possibly leaving with him, was the only way to get out of this situation, then it's better than the alternative. Which is....stay in the situation, let it drag on until you cannot take it anymore, and it ends anyways with the only regret being that you waited as long as you did. By encouraging his behavior by apologizing and ensuring he feels he is right...just making it worse in the long run, because now he's gonna feel more confident doing what he's doing. And that doesn't help anyone, not even A.
Toxic Player + Wimp GM = Run as fast as you can from that table. It will never be fun. it will always be a chore to put up with. Anyone in that situation needs to collect their things, and hopefully any like-minded players who want to actually enjoy the hobby, and find a new group. I never understand the "but the group will break up if I/we try to correct it" excuse. If it's a dumpster fire of a campaign, because of wang-rods, then what are you losing exactly? Except maybe the chance to find some fellow gamers who you'll have a great time with.
I'm dealing with a similar situation right now with a meta gaming/ power gaming/ Puppet Master/ rules lawyer who is the DM's buddy and thinks he's player one. I've found another group, because there is always another group, so I'd suggest doing the same of the DM won't step up. You don't need stress while playing a game. That's counter productive.
I've done that in more than one gaming group. "Diva cheater and DM that allows it, I'm out." My first requirement for any gaming group is that I must know at least half the people there personally and know they are not idiots.
Fear of having the group break up. Never fear this. I gamed with a group (several overlapping social circles stretch across 100 miles) for many years. I finally confronted one of the main GMs (my best friend of 12 years) about his behavior both as a GM and a player. I knew that it would probably out me from the group(s), as they were all longtime friends of his and he was the center of the social circles. But, I hoped that it wouldn’t. As it turned out, several in my more local group drifted away from him or flat out deserted him afterworlds. They later approached me to run a game for them. Some had seen many of the same things I did before our confrontation, but chocked it up to, “Well, that’s just the way he is. No problem”. Some only took noticed afterwards. (Note that these are people who had known each other for 10 to 20 years before I arrived on the scene). After several years of not playing, I now have five great player in my new game. Two of them are experienced, fantastic GMs and are willing to run when my game ends or if I need a break. (The ladder is more likely, because m running a lvl 1-20 Pathfinder game. ) I have also found out that several others in a different circle have distanced themselves from my ex best friend and would be willing to game with me if our schedules ever align with one another. Distance yourself from toxic people. Do it sooner than later. You will be better for it in the long run.
Hey, how about you send the story to critcrab himself? Sounds fairly interesting and I would like to know why you distanced yourself from your former bf in the first place.
@@AlexejCeros It is a long story. The message is that you don’t have to game with toxic people. (And you don’t need them in your life.) There are groups,players/GMs out there that fit you better. With remote gaming now readily available, never prolong confronting someone about their behavior at the table. Do it respectfully. Do it tactfully. But do it sooner rather than later.
I like powergaming, but at least I make it funny. I played an assassin rogue with a fear of using weapons on a living thing. So instead of getting into combat, I'd use traps, poison, and trickery like color spray scrolls and wands of locking to eliminate my targets without fighting. I took the running feats to make sure I was faster than anything I needed to outrun. Then I eventually got +20 bluff and things got really insane.
@@derentius Do it. Try to get your DM to let you have a custom crossbow that has grappling hooks and a winch. Mine fired eye hooks so I could bolt it to the floor and make a hanging rope trap pretty much anywhere as long as it's not a stone ceiling.
@@zeterzero4356 I'd argue that it's not really a shortcoming to never get into direct combat. That rogue survived multiple TPKs because of his cowardice. DM: "Rocks fall, everyone do a reflex check, except the rogue. He doesn't seem to be anywhere near the party. You get the feeling you would have a better chance of survival if you let him guide you through places like this." I tried to tell the party to wait up and let me do my thing, but carelessness is an insidious killer. Since I was a noncombatant, I spent all my points in bluff, disarm device, hide, and move silently. Since then, I truly believe that intelligence rogues are FAR superior to dexterity finesse rogues. One time, I even had the party divert a river into a dungeon in order to drown all the baddies. Then we used water breathing to loot the place. I was power gaming hard, but the DM and players put up with it nicely because I was roleplaying the ultimate version of work smarter, not harder. It was pretty much just roleplay combat for my character. Any time you can defeat the boss without having to look at him is a good day.
God, THANK YOU. For real. No one understands the importance of a "session zero" When I am DMing a campaign (especially if it's homebrew), I usually go even further than that - I'll have the other players give input into the mechanics of the world, help with historical backstory, help determine custom rulesets, etc. etc. etc. We seem to have pretty good games. Most of the time. Obviously, it isn't gonna' be perfect every time, but for the most part we seem to get along well, and have fun telling a story with one another in the world we all helped visualize in some way.
Maybe they had a session zero. Dident he mention that it was going on for 18 months? Its quite easy for people to forget things like that. Or players to just be dicks and say A while doing B.
it was straight enabling. Best first rule for the DM: no character sheet: you don't exist at best you are a hallucination. if we have to make a character fine, but refusing to show means your something like an imaginary friend. For the player: if you like your character keep a copy of the LV 1 character sheet for other groups unless it is super homebrewed then i got nothing.
I question how either online or irl how any player can actually play without their player sheet on hand, without having memorized the whole book, would be able to keep track of everything about their character? with nothing written down there seems to be an unlimited fee for all to fudge everything to go your way. bet if players like that could they'd get loaded dice to roll nat 20s for any and every whim they feel like.
@@TheHamsters3 I played a fighter once and I knew my stats and equipment well enough that when I forgot my character sheet, I could run the character no problem.
I used to fear that my problem player would actually come back to find out that his Dhampir Rogue has a bounty of 5000 GP and rising. I would be willing to let him come back if he asked but he hasn't. He hasn't responded to any of my texts, regularly is the reason why I have to cancel sessions, and finally I'm just straight up tired of his edgelord character. I am considering turning his character into a recurring villain in my campaign though.
I feel really bad for that DM because I used to be the same way, overly nice and non-confrontational, until I learned to have some self-respect for myself. I hope he eventually realizes that being apologetic to toxic people just reinforces their shitty behavior.
'Well of course I would've healed!' ...Doesn't healing take an action? As for the GM, the meek shall inherit because they stay up late and change the will! What makes saints saints is that they stands up for what's right!
If you are the GM/DM, the solution is simple. Advise the player (privately) of the behavior that needs to be corrected, tell them it won't be tolerated, and if it continues, they are not welcome to return. See? Easy. If you are a player, politely let he GM know the circumstances that are ruining your chance to enjoy yourself. Tell them you'd like them to do something about the toxic player. If they don't (or won't), you tell them you'll be moving on. Plenty of good players in this hobby. You will find then if you look. No need to surrender to having a bad time. If you want specific suggestions Computerhead, I'd be glad to offer them. Just fill me in. I'm an old-as-dirt rpg gamer. If what I've learned over four decades of rolling funny dice might help you out, I'm up for it.
As a d.m. you can make all kind of evil befall a power gaming munchkin as a fellow player you can use slander in towns in battle you can impose disadvantage with poisons or hex on the road you can have him ambushed and pretend to help or irl file his dice to alwayse role ones . ive had players at my table try this and I personally prefer divine intervention from the gods of pestalence or plagues
As DM, if I catch a player cheating, I ensure he gets struck with something that will take the character out and then I will never find a time or place to introduce his replacement character. He can sit, watching the game.,while waiting to get back in for as long as he wants. Problem solved.
Its stories like this that makes me feel that I am a fairly luck DM. The worst player I ever had was someone that threatened to leave because a specific NPC merchant died and the player didn't get the chance to buy the backstory axe from them. (Dwarfs, am I right?) Short of how that ended was me just leaning over to them and saying, "Hey, so I know your character would be mad at this, but I did this so you could have more then one conversation as a backstory. I made a quest to get it back that I expected to take up most of next session." We all laughed and moved on. I do think a part of the reason why I don't get nightmare players is because I tend to shut stuff like that down in session 0's by making the campaign after I help make all the characters with the players. This tends to make so people think in terms of what they want out of the game and lets me know as a dm what to give and what to keep.
I NEVER start a game without looking over the players character sheets, I also keep track of all of the players hit points, its not a matter of thinking they might cheat, its just a fail safe if they lose track or get confused If theres one lesson to be learned from this tale; never let your players actively hide their character sheet
So a few months ago, a couple friends of mine were trying out a new campaign. Our old dm had started a separate campaign elsewhere, and one of our older players said he could dm for the new one. Now, the reason our old dm left was because of some VERY toxic players who we soon after kicked out. So, the new group gets together, with an extra player, the dm's sister. Ya I know, why did I even agree to that. Well, turns out, she had never played DND, and didn't get the idea of shared fun. She tried to turn every creature we fought into her rockstar Roadies (she was an attack bard), and he happily let her. Even if we tried to kill the mobs, she would whine to our dm and ended up getting them as Roadies. I left after session 2, and got the other players to leave to end that problem all together
I can't understand the GM, I sit down with my players in a VC and talk to them while they make their characters and when we get to backstory and private character stuff I take them to a private channel to discuss it so I understand everything. If during this phase someone wants something unrealistic or something stupid that would ruin the campaign or the other players fun I tell them no. Of course sometimes I can't do this or we're just running a temporary game, so the players do it in their own free time without my help, but if a player showed up to a session and there wasn't a character sheet for me to see then it's a simple case of "Then you aren't playing in this session, make sure you have a character sheet you can show me before next session and I'll introduce your character to the game then"
No joke, I saw the EXP bar at the bottom of the screen while turning up the volume on the video, and thought "Wow, that's a lot of midrolls" before realizing RUclips barely alerts you anymore.
yea even if the player was being a bit of an unclear jerk but why did the DM and the players make that ending for his character? that is fucked up! was everyone playing chaotic evil?
the story got me an idea for a homebrew character a intelligent goldfish in a bowl mounted on a clockwork body instead of the head (the goldfish is controlling the clockwork body like his own)
honestly I think a "lvl 20 trapped in the body of a lvl 1" would be a lot of fun if they only had lvl 1 powers... imagine a wizard frantically trying to think about how his pitiful level 1 spells could fix this... when he's so used to something like Wish... or Disintegrate "dammit... umm... I... I um.... cast Silent image to try and distract them" "it doesn't work" "dangit" *looks frantically at spellbook* "this was so much easier when I could summon actual things"
I'm in a situation similar, except the players aren't expressing how they feel about said player, and that guy is about a few screws loose. Might post it and give it updates when it all comes full circle.
Absolutely do it man. It would be really cool I I could cover it here on the channel and see what the comments have to say. Hey, maybe we all could work together on the issue. When you want to post it you could post it on r/rpghorrorstories or you could DM it to me anywhere I could be found. (Twitter, Discord, etc)
By a "few screws loose", are you citing a potential for violence. If so, get rid of this player immediately. It's just a game and not worth anyone being assaulted. Make sure that you have a hidden recording device when you break the news to the soon-to-be expunged player. That way, if he makes any threats, you can share it with the police and file a restraining order if need be. Continue to enjoy the hobby, but keep it safe out there.
How do people even let things get to the point of being a problem? Adults should be able to talk to each other about things like this openly and honestly so they they never become an issue
My stance would be, if this somehow happened to me, I'd follow it to the near letter of how the DM acted. With one notable exception. A: "Apologize." Me: "Sorry, we thought you'd actually abandoned us, and that's how we deal with it." A: "No. Stand up and apologize." Me: "...okay." *stands up* "I'm sorry that I didn't put my foot down earlier. Get out and never come back."
Lesson: It is super easy (easier than you think) to recognise a bully. Never give in to a bullies demand. It simply reinforces their assumption that bullying is an acceptable strategy.
I've only shut down a game and demanded a retcon once. It was a DM move that was frankly one of the most idiotic and stupid calls ever made in existence; where he killed another PC he was mad at IRL for... walking backwards. Had the guy slip off a cliff. When it was 30 feet away. Only time I've ever as a player shut down a DM. And it was completely worth it.
wow...i kind of love the concept of a part of characters who are all level 20, but trapped in the body of a level 1, with the hp and stats of a level 1, but still have knowledge of all their skills and if they want access to their skills , they make a roll with disadvantage and if they fail, they take a penalty instead. . .and eventually they can work their way back up to level 20 and be like a level 20..+20. kind of like, in a final fantasy game where you master a job class and then switch and then master that one and then combine the two mastered jobs to make an insanely OP character
Session zero would have been a great idea. If I was DM if this group, I would have made it clear that none of them can play if I didn’t have a copy of their character sheets. That way, crap like that can’t happen at the table
If I've learned one thing from CritCrab, it is the importance of a session zero.
5 лет назад+1
As a long time DM I would have actually stood up, taken a deep breath - reached across the table grabbed A s character sheet, had a good look at it and said "Yea as I thought - you were definetly turned into a Goldfish and eaten by a Psychopathic 5 year old. Now GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HOUSE!" There are so many good players out there, no use of living with the shitty ones.
Theres a special place in hell for players and characters that stare the dm in the face and say "my character wouldn't do that." Played with a That Guy when the DM played a fear mechanic that worked on an entwined sanity stat. Whenever That Guy would fail, he wouldnt play his character any different, despite the language being that he was 'terrified'. Theres a difference between courage and ignoring the situation completely. Hes also the guy who never seems to roll below 10 on his dice. On initiative rolls, he would always get above 20, and would somehow always hit despite always rolling at disadvantage due to the curse on his bow (made by the DM specifically to nerf him). All of his "characters" were stat blocks and hardly had any bearing on the plot. He was also meta-game king, he would read the DMG and MM for fun and say, out loud, what the encounter was the moment he realized, ruining the build up, in spite of if his character actually knew what those things are.
I got to the point where he said "because the post is pretty long" and I looked at the time expecting a 30 minute video, then I saw it was only 7 minutes XD Guess watching primarily videos that are 10-30 minutes long have set my expectations different :)
In my games, we always dealt with toxic players by killing their PCs, the party, the DM or some combo...they eventually quit or get better, if not good. If if another player wants to take the side of the crap player, we’ll, every such player I dealt with was able to be reasoned with & stayed.
A was ether cheating or being a bad communicator everyone made a fu*ked up ending and the DM probably should have said something like: okay you do your character whatever, I guess you can decide on why you were absent in game. now let's just continue
I hate those that enable this type of bs in people. This just means they think they can do this attitude again and again, ruining further games and people's fun. The DM wasn't a saint, he was spineless. They should have just told him his character was now a goldfish and he has to make a new one, or leave.
Malyssa C I really don’t understand how these players do shit like this, the DM can literally point to what they are doing and if it is impossible it doesn’t fly
Often it is harder to deal with friends then it is strangers, this particular player isn't even friends with any of us anymore.. issues at and beyond the table
I had a player like this, who cheated all the time. Me and the rest of the players kicked him out. He wanted to return to the game and when he could not do that, he called us bullies.
Not allowing PVP is taking away player agency and forcing them to put up with some idiot's BS. I've had games where all the other PCs would mob the annoyance, slap him down to 0 HP, tie him up securely, heal to 1HP and deliver the PC to the magistrate for hanging.
@@fhuber7507 If taking player agency is what's needed to keep the group from disbanding, so be it. You're entitled to have your own opinion, but do not expect for a minute that your anecdotal experience, however positive it may be, will change my opinion based on a lot of my own personal experience and from reading many more horror stories with PvP at its core. Slapping down That Guy's action and booting him from the group will yield better results than allowing PvP to run its course.
Depends on the context. Unjustified pvp is bad, but I wouldn’t say any possible instance of pvp is instantly negative and indicated that a dm is a terrible dm.
only times I feel PvP works is 1) a spar to test out a new character to see how they hold up or 2) the party is clearly divided and diplomacy hasn't changed anything toward either side. being mindful that in game is vastly different then out of game.
For me, this is the worst story I’ve heard so far. Every thing about it was heartbreaking and sickening. All the players were spineless or traitors and it sounds like the DM has no self respect. I know this is old now but damn, I feel for you OP. Hope you get the group you deserve.
"I'm sorry that you're such a terrible person, and that I ever put up with you in the first place. By the way I was lying, you didn't have a nightmare. You actually turned into a goldfish. And went to an abusive owner. Good riddance to you."
Ok. Imma be honest. The dm is the overall ruling judge of the entire game. I'm a Dm myself. I've had to deal with problem players myself. Best way to deal with a problem player that doesn't want to take a hint, make an immortal enemy that will only target the problem player. As a matter of fact there is a monster that literally has an innate ability that allows it to track a target as long as the target is on the same plane as it. It always knows where the target is and will tirelessly hunt them down.
I have a player in a campaign I’m doing and have been in campaign with said player who does bulls crap like that. Never asked the dm to apologize. Honestly the only reason I still have him in campaign is because I live in a very small town.
I really enjoy these videos, but I would really appreciate subtitles or the post off to the side (so it doesn't block your gameplay) because my hearing isn't the greatest. I recently subbed, and I'd really appreciate if you could maybe look into that. Thanks so much for fun videos and good content!
Thank you for the constructive comment. I have been trying to look into ways be non intrusive and still get the job done. I've been considering using the subtitles. But I may try something else, any thoughts?
@@CritCrab if you put just two or three lines of the post running along the bottom of the video, you could move the lines along with your reading. That would be a non-intrusive way to do it, and it seems easier than having to make audio transcripts of everything you say and then adding subtitles to the video 😊
Yup ... a guy taking advantage of the often weak (socially awkward) personalities drawn to table top RPGs, and the DM being susceptible to the sunk cost fallacy. I've already said this in comments to several other videos, but it bears repeating: Rule # 1 of DM-ing: Don't care too much about your campaign. Bad faith actors well smell your weakness and use ot against you. Be willing to scuttle the proverbial ship. Rule # 2 of DM-ing: Don't care too much about your campaign. Bad faith actors well smell your weakness and use ot against you. Be willing to scuttle the proverbial ship. Rule # 3 of DM-ing: Don't care too much about your campaign. Bad faith actors well smell your weakness and use ot against you. Be willing to scuttle the proverbial ship. etc etc etc.
Ugh I don't have the patience for people like this. If you don't like something then don't play. If I was a DM and some of the people acted liked this I would say you play my way with the rest of the table or you don't play.
The DM was in a difficult spot. On one hand, yes he should have a spine and stand up to the cheater, he also had to make a conscious decision between maintaining the group and not maintaining the group. Half the players would have left if he stood up to the cheater, unfortunately, and it's not always easy to get new players. As an aside, A's character sounds like a really interesting concept, a 20th level character with access to nerfed versions of his max level abilities, slowly regaining his strength as he levels up. Definitely would be fun to play in a high power level setting.
Never ever scarifice your dignity to A holes. Especially not your a game. Your dignity is not so cheap that its worth losing over something your supposed to do for fun
I mean, this is not the sort of thing a session 0 can address. No one is going to say, "I expect to cheat in a game." It is just something that happens with inscrupulous people. Also, the dm is not the jerk wrangler. The problem player is affecting the whole game so they are everyone's problem. Just because they plan a game does not mean they are now your mother and need to wipe your nose and tell you to play nice with others.
If someone came to my table and acted like this, then I'd have to stop the game and politely ask them to leave the table then have a quick chat with them and explain the issue...if they can fix it, then if they stop their toxic ways they could be able to play in the future if not...I'd have to let them go for good
So, i'm just going to say, i don't think that he was saying that this instance made the GM a saint, but that from previous experiences he thought of him as a saint.
That's literally how it was said too. Either that or he was saying he had the patience of a saint, but that seems a stretch. He definitely wasn't saying he was a saint because he was allowing this to happen.
@@Konpekikaminari munchkins cheat. in fact, this is what is usually the distinction of a minmaxer and a munchkin. A minmaxer will exploit the rules to give themselves an advantage and try to make the best character possible given certain criteria. A munchkin will pull all the tricks to be the best, including straight up cheating, making up "homebrew" which is wildly off balance and heavy metagaming.
Развлечения
I can imagine how this would go down if this happened in my D&D group.
"You should apologize for making a joke about my character! My character's fearless and amazing, he just stayed in bed."
"Suit yourself"
DM rules that the character was instead murdered by an assassin while sleeping in.
I like it
"Your character got up for a glass of water, tripped over a stray cat and snapped his neck on a table." Gotta make it real mundane.
if I was the DM I would have said something like: okay then... uhh someone realised who you were and tried to poison you, fortunately the party managed to cure you but you were in a coma for the past session and now you caught up with the party boom if that isn't good enough for you make your own reason, now let's just continue like nothing happened
Master Asia Lol I’m just trying to figure out what angle you have to hit your head on a table while falling over to snap your neck on it.
and stabbed in the ass by the assassin
Lesson of the story:
Allowing a toxic player to continue their bullshit is just as bad as ending the campaign without a climax.
A was right, the DM should apologize... that he didn't kick A out of the group sooner.
If you kick my toxic friend ill go too.
Ok then bye
"You want an apology? Okay let me just roll for that..."
*Rolls die*
"Hm, sorry the die says 'No'."
Nat 1 on the apology. I fail to apologize so hard I just ended up punching you in the balls. Lemme roll for another apology.
honestly they both sounded like they were out of their mind
I'd like to roll for a chance to give the guy a spanked bare bottom.
i roll for the guy in the party to not have to deal with him nat 1 dm apology to him everyone at the table besides a "NNOOOOOO"
@@Servellion fuck your comment for making me laugh so hard at 2am, and I haven't gotten to watch the video yet.
To be honest C sounded like they were an issue in this too.
C is an enabling jack ass who is openly letting that shit happen and will openly abandon the game if his toxic ass friend does. of course hes part of the problem
martiansoldier too bad they couldn’t find two to replace the bad two.
Yep. Dump A & C and make it clear to C that he is welcome back only if he is A free and never brings back someone who cheats so much at a game that they make it suck. I had a gaming group of 12 that I kept booting people so much that I only had 1.5 regular gamers (1 regular and the other had an unpredictable work and life or he would be regular).
Yeah "non confrontational" is what the DM is, C is worse than that.
martiansoldier C was something of a side product, I think. OP mentioned they were very non-confrontational. These kind of people can either be really helpful as they want to solve conflicts asap, but they can become an issue as they would do a lot to avoid conflict in the first place.
Just to air an experience. I actually had the idea to play a "Lvl 20 in a Lvl 1 body" character myself about two years ago. With a little bit of discussion, my gm posed a rule set that worked for us. We basically ripped of Servants from the Fate Series, said I was an ultrapowerful familiar summoned by accident by another PC who was in on it. But because my "Master's Mana" couldn't take it, I was basically reduced to whatever level he was. We reasoned that granting me the knowledge stats of a high-level fighter wouldn't impact the game's balance much given I would mostly know things a level 1 fighter was expected to know, just a little more consistently. On top of that I had to be totally obedient to the other PC (Who was a good friend we trusted with the job) so I could be reigned in if I ever got carried away.
In the end it was a ton of fun and my character ended up as the heart of the group that everyone liked having around to the extent that another PC even sacrificed themselves to keep him around at one point. Moral of the story is that any idea can work, as long as you're willing to work with your GM and be rational.
Yeah, GM's not a saint GM should take A aside and privately tell him that he has a choice 1.) Stop cheating and be courteous or 2.) leave because his diva ass is not wanted at this table.
If it was me, I'd flat out not allow the cheating.
And if he pulled htat stuff with me, I'd say, "Alright. I'm sorry I lied to you. Your character's a goldfish now. Roll a saving throw against death beacause the kid just shook your bag again.
The unfortunate thing is that people did want him at the game considering no one called him out on his garbage and one person outright said that he would take his side if it became an issue.
Me The DM: Some Party Of Players That Finished Their Campaign Comes Down From Their Airship & Starts Attacking You, Roll For Attack & Defense & This Is A Scripted Battle Where You Lose Even If You Rolled A 20 & You Died To Soul Gamble Being An Extremely Double-Edged Sword.
I would have left the group after the apology, if you can't trust your DM to stop cheaters and sore losers, it's probably not worth being there
@@nathanielleguizamo409 Hate Insta-death spells that can backfire? get in my campign.
If I were that dude's DM, I'd just say the classic line when he had started demanding an apology from me.
"Rocks fall, you die."
Yeah, the DM is NOT a saint. honestly this is like 90% on the DM's shoulders for allowing it to go as far as it did. You love your campaign so much dude? get rid of the player that's going to ruin it.
This. I almost barfed when I heard him being called a saint. They're all pretty spineless, but the dm is probably the worse offender.
Agreed, letting A go that far sets aprecedent for rest of campaign. He did no one any favors by reacting that way, not even A (encourages his behavior)
half the group would be gone if that happened though
@@rafotrarran6888 most of these campaigns that critcrab shows have a common lesson in them: the need to get out of that situation, even at risk of offending someone. If the price of this game was offending one person, and his buddy possibly leaving with him, was the only way to get out of this situation, then it's better than the alternative. Which is....stay in the situation, let it drag on until you cannot take it anymore, and it ends anyways with the only regret being that you waited as long as you did. By encouraging his behavior by apologizing and ensuring he feels he is right...just making it worse in the long run, because now he's gonna feel more confident doing what he's doing. And that doesn't help anyone, not even A.
also that character send off was *REALLY* fucked up
Toxic Player + Wimp GM = Run as fast as you can from that table.
It will never be fun. it will always be a chore to put up with. Anyone in that situation needs to collect their things, and hopefully any like-minded players who want to actually enjoy the hobby, and find a new group.
I never understand the "but the group will break up if I/we try to correct it" excuse. If it's a dumpster fire of a campaign, because of wang-rods, then what are you losing exactly? Except maybe the chance to find some fellow gamers who you'll have a great time with.
“But the group will break up. Good.”
I'm dealing with a similar situation right now with a meta gaming/ power gaming/ Puppet Master/ rules lawyer who is the DM's buddy and thinks he's player one. I've found another group, because there is always another group, so I'd suggest doing the same of the DM won't step up. You don't need stress while playing a game. That's counter productive.
Ive been there before. Toxic player tried to micro manage other player characters and i tore him a new one and left the group.
@Michael Fox if you have to think about it, do it.
I've done that in more than one gaming group. "Diva cheater and DM that allows it, I'm out." My first requirement for any gaming group is that I must know at least half the people there personally and know they are not idiots.
"I will think about apologizing for that once you apologize to everybody here for all the cheating."
Fear of having the group break up.
Never fear this. I gamed with a group (several overlapping social circles stretch across 100 miles) for many years. I finally confronted one of the main GMs (my best friend of 12 years) about his behavior both as a GM and a player. I knew that it would probably out me from the group(s), as they were all longtime friends of his and he was the center of the social circles. But, I hoped that it wouldn’t.
As it turned out, several in my more local group drifted away from him or flat out deserted him afterworlds. They later approached me to run a game for them. Some had seen many of the same things I did before our confrontation, but chocked it up to, “Well, that’s just the way he is. No problem”. Some only took noticed afterwards. (Note that these are people who had known each other for 10 to 20 years before I arrived on the scene).
After several years of not playing, I now have five great player in my new game. Two of them are experienced, fantastic GMs and are willing to run when my game ends or if I need a break. (The ladder is more likely, because m running a lvl 1-20 Pathfinder game. )
I have also found out that several others in a different circle have distanced themselves from my ex best friend and would be willing to game with me if our schedules ever align with one another.
Distance yourself from toxic people. Do it sooner than later. You will be better for it in the long run.
Hey, how about you send the story to critcrab himself? Sounds fairly interesting and I would like to know why you distanced yourself from your former bf in the first place.
@@AlexejCeros It is a long story. The message is that you don’t have to game with toxic people. (And you don’t need them in your life.) There are groups,players/GMs out there that fit you better. With remote gaming now readily available, never prolong confronting someone about their behavior at the table. Do it respectfully. Do it tactfully. But do it sooner rather than later.
@@crunchydragontreats6692 Thank you for the advice!
Damnnnnn you really called out the dm for being an enabler. Good shit dude
3:47 "of course he would've healed when that double crit hit him!"
ah, neverwinter, you never fail to sync up perfectly.
I like powergaming, but at least I make it funny. I played an assassin rogue with a fear of using weapons on a living thing. So instead of getting into combat, I'd use traps, poison, and trickery like color spray scrolls and wands of locking to eliminate my targets without fighting. I took the running feats to make sure I was faster than anything I needed to outrun. Then I eventually got +20 bluff and things got really insane.
Hell yeah! Something like that I can totally support.
I'd actually like to play this build, it seems really interesting.
>Your leg! It's caught in a bear trap!
@@derentius Do it. Try to get your DM to let you have a custom crossbow that has grappling hooks and a winch. Mine fired eye hooks so I could bolt it to the floor and make a hanging rope trap pretty much anywhere as long as it's not a stone ceiling.
Always fun to take a character that would be broken but isn't because of some short coming. I mean that lovingly.
@@zeterzero4356 I'd argue that it's not really a shortcoming to never get into direct combat. That rogue survived multiple TPKs because of his cowardice. DM: "Rocks fall, everyone do a reflex check, except the rogue. He doesn't seem to be anywhere near the party. You get the feeling you would have a better chance of survival if you let him guide you through places like this." I tried to tell the party to wait up and let me do my thing, but carelessness is an insidious killer. Since I was a noncombatant, I spent all my points in bluff, disarm device, hide, and move silently. Since then, I truly believe that intelligence rogues are FAR superior to dexterity finesse rogues.
One time, I even had the party divert a river into a dungeon in order to drown all the baddies. Then we used water breathing to loot the place. I was power gaming hard, but the DM and players put up with it nicely because I was roleplaying the ultimate version of work smarter, not harder. It was pretty much just roleplay combat for my character. Any time you can defeat the boss without having to look at him is a good day.
What kind of group does something like this? I am a DM and a guy like that wouldn't have been in my group for more than two sessions.
God, THANK YOU. For real. No one understands the importance of a "session zero"
When I am DMing a campaign (especially if it's homebrew), I usually go even further than that - I'll have the other players give input into the mechanics of the world, help with historical backstory, help determine custom rulesets, etc. etc. etc.
We seem to have pretty good games. Most of the time. Obviously, it isn't gonna' be perfect every time, but for the most part we seem to get along well, and have fun telling a story with one another in the world we all helped visualize in some way.
Maybe they had a session zero. Dident he mention that it was going on for 18 months? Its quite easy for people to forget things like that. Or players to just be dicks and say A while doing B.
it was straight enabling.
Best first rule for the DM: no character sheet: you don't exist at best you are a hallucination. if we have to make a character fine, but refusing to show means your something like an imaginary friend.
For the player: if you like your character keep a copy of the LV 1 character sheet for other groups unless it is super homebrewed then i got nothing.
I question how either online or irl how any player can actually play without their player sheet on hand, without having memorized the whole book, would be able to keep track of everything about their character? with nothing written down there seems to be an unlimited fee for all to fudge everything to go your way. bet if players like that could they'd get loaded dice to roll nat 20s for any and every whim they feel like.
There's this magical little secret I'm going to let you in on.
They use this rare skill called "lying"
@@TheHamsters3 I played a fighter once and I knew my stats and equipment well enough that when I forgot my character sheet, I could run the character no problem.
I used to fear that my problem player would actually come back to find out that his Dhampir Rogue has a bounty of 5000 GP and rising. I would be willing to let him come back if he asked but he hasn't. He hasn't responded to any of my texts, regularly is the reason why I have to cancel sessions, and finally I'm just straight up tired of his edgelord character. I am considering turning his character into a recurring villain in my campaign though.
Have you?
I feel really bad for that DM because I used to be the same way, overly nice and non-confrontational, until I learned to have some self-respect for myself. I hope he eventually realizes that being apologetic to toxic people just reinforces their shitty behavior.
“The dm has no spine” crab:”what the flip”
Stories like this quickly make me realize what I don’t wanna do as a DM
'Well of course I would've healed!' ...Doesn't healing take an action?
As for the GM, the meek shall inherit because they stay up late and change the will! What makes saints saints is that they stands up for what's right!
maybe he used second wind and got really good rolls and everything with the addition of being level 20?
I do love these stories, and your voice isn't monotonous so I'm gonna sub.
Thanks a million! And I do try to avoid the robot voice as it comes across as impersonal and low effort. Not judging those that do but I'll pass.
Same! I'm currently binging his channel.
Overpowered PCs with crippling downsides can be very fun and refreshing, it’s a shame this didn’t work out.
I have a player like that in my campaign, lol. Yeah, I need help.
You have my internet sympathies.
If you are the GM/DM, the solution is simple.
Advise the player (privately) of the behavior that needs to be corrected, tell them it won't be tolerated, and if it continues, they are not welcome to return.
See? Easy.
If you are a player, politely let he GM know the circumstances that are ruining your chance to enjoy yourself. Tell them you'd like them to do something about the toxic player. If they don't (or won't), you tell them you'll be moving on.
Plenty of good players in this hobby. You will find then if you look. No need to surrender to having a bad time.
If you want specific suggestions Computerhead, I'd be glad to offer them. Just fill me in.
I'm an old-as-dirt rpg gamer. If what I've learned over four decades of rolling funny dice might help you out, I'm up for it.
Tell them to cut the shit or they're done playing with you.
As a d.m. you can make all kind of evil befall a power gaming munchkin as a fellow player you can use slander in towns in battle you can impose disadvantage with poisons or hex on the road you can have him ambushed and pretend to help or irl file his dice to alwayse role ones . ive had players at my table try this and I personally prefer divine intervention from the gods of pestalence or plagues
As DM, if I catch a player cheating, I ensure he gets struck with something that will take the character out and then I will never find a time or place to introduce his replacement character.
He can sit, watching the game.,while waiting to get back in for as long as he wants.
Problem solved.
Its stories like this that makes me feel that I am a fairly luck DM. The worst player I ever had was someone that threatened to leave because a specific NPC merchant died and the player didn't get the chance to buy the backstory axe from them. (Dwarfs, am I right?) Short of how that ended was me just leaning over to them and saying, "Hey, so I know your character would be mad at this, but I did this so you could have more then one conversation as a backstory. I made a quest to get it back that I expected to take up most of next session." We all laughed and moved on.
I do think a part of the reason why I don't get nightmare players is because I tend to shut stuff like that down in session 0's by making the campaign after I help make all the characters with the players. This tends to make so people think in terms of what they want out of the game and lets me know as a dm what to give and what to keep.
D.M. meteors A and a dimigorgon crawls out to consume his remains ... Rerole a new p.c. everyone watch him role
"I don't have nightmares because I'm not afraid of anything."
You can have a nightmare and still not be scared lmao
I NEVER start a game without looking over the players character sheets,
I also keep track of all of the players hit points, its not a matter of thinking they might cheat, its just a fail safe if they lose track or get confused
If theres one lesson to be learned from this tale; never let your players actively hide their character sheet
The revenge was priceless. Turned into a goldfish. Abosuletly priceless
So a few months ago, a couple friends of mine were trying out a new campaign. Our old dm had started a separate campaign elsewhere, and one of our older players said he could dm for the new one. Now, the reason our old dm left was because of some VERY toxic players who we soon after kicked out.
So, the new group gets together, with an extra player, the dm's sister. Ya I know, why did I even agree to that. Well, turns out, she had never played DND, and didn't get the idea of shared fun. She tried to turn every creature we fought into her rockstar Roadies (she was an attack bard), and he happily let her. Even if we tried to kill the mobs, she would whine to our dm and ended up getting them as Roadies. I left after session 2, and got the other players to leave to end that problem all together
I can't understand the GM, I sit down with my players in a VC and talk to them while they make their characters and when we get to backstory and private character stuff I take them to a private channel to discuss it so I understand everything. If during this phase someone wants something unrealistic or something stupid that would ruin the campaign or the other players fun I tell them no. Of course sometimes I can't do this or we're just running a temporary game, so the players do it in their own free time without my help, but if a player showed up to a session and there wasn't a character sheet for me to see then it's a simple case of "Then you aren't playing in this session, make sure you have a character sheet you can show me before next session and I'll introduce your character to the game then"
No joke, I saw the EXP bar at the bottom of the screen while turning up the volume on the video, and thought "Wow, that's a lot of midrolls" before realizing RUclips barely alerts you anymore.
Thank you for the video! All of you friends are super awesome! Oh, moments in that video are sad.
It gonna lie, I don’t respect that DM.
yea even if the player was being a bit of an unclear jerk but why did the DM and the players make that ending for his character? that is fucked up! was everyone playing chaotic evil?
Great channel nice to see one that focuses on D&D stories only complaint would be that there is no link to the original post
the story got me an idea for a homebrew character
a intelligent goldfish in a bowl mounted on a clockwork body instead of the head (the goldfish is controlling the clockwork body like his own)
honestly I think a "lvl 20 trapped in the body of a lvl 1" would be a lot of fun if they only had lvl 1 powers... imagine a wizard frantically trying to think about how his pitiful level 1 spells could fix this... when he's so used to something like Wish... or Disintegrate
"dammit... umm... I... I um.... cast Silent image to try and distract them"
"it doesn't work"
"dangit" *looks frantically at spellbook* "this was so much easier when I could summon actual things"
i realize this is an older story but i will post here what i saw in another story video i saw
"no D&D is better than bad D&D"
I'm in a situation similar, except the players aren't expressing how they feel about said player, and that guy is about a few screws loose. Might post it and give it updates when it all comes full circle.
Absolutely do it man. It would be really cool I I could cover it here on the channel and see what the comments have to say. Hey, maybe we all could work together on the issue. When you want to post it you could post it on r/rpghorrorstories or you could DM it to me anywhere I could be found. (Twitter, Discord, etc)
@@CritCrab sounds good
By a "few screws loose", are you citing a potential for violence. If so, get rid of this player immediately. It's just a game and not worth anyone being assaulted. Make sure that you have a hidden recording device when you break the news to the soon-to-be expunged player. That way, if he makes any threats, you can share it with the police and file a restraining order if need be. Continue to enjoy the hobby, but keep it safe out there.
How do people even let things get to the point of being a problem? Adults should be able to talk to each other about things like this openly and honestly so they they never become an issue
Any time a player refuses to give access to his character, espacially if every other player did, you know that something sketchy is going on
My stance would be, if this somehow happened to me, I'd follow it to the near letter of how the DM acted. With one notable exception.
A: "Apologize."
Me: "Sorry, we thought you'd actually abandoned us, and that's how we deal with it."
A: "No. Stand up and apologize."
Me: "...okay." *stands up* "I'm sorry that I didn't put my foot down earlier. Get out and never come back."
Had I been the DM I would have stood and said "I do formally apologize for your lack of a sense of humor, and your thin skin."
The DM is not a saint or hero, he is just a person who has no boundaries and is a total pushover.
Oh, its time. RUclips hivemind, d&d section, let's find a and 'show him the ropes'. I'll get the rope.
Lesson: It is super easy (easier than you think) to recognise a bully. Never give in to a bullies demand. It simply reinforces their assumption that bullying is an acceptable strategy.
I've only shut down a game and demanded a retcon once. It was a DM move that was frankly one of the most idiotic and stupid calls ever made in existence; where he killed another PC he was mad at IRL for... walking backwards. Had the guy slip off a cliff. When it was 30 feet away. Only time I've ever as a player shut down a DM. And it was completely worth it.
If I was the DM I would have stood up and formally told A to leave and then made his player's fate canon, lol
wow...i kind of love the concept of a part of characters who are all level 20, but trapped in the body of a level 1, with the hp and stats of a level 1, but still have knowledge of all their skills and if they want access to their skills , they make a roll with disadvantage and if they fail, they take a penalty instead. . .and eventually they can work their way back up to level 20 and be like a level 20..+20.
kind of like, in a final fantasy game where you master a job class and then switch and then master that one and then combine the two mastered jobs to make an insanely OP character
Session zero would have been a great idea. If I was DM if this group, I would have made it clear that none of them can play if I didn’t have a copy of their character sheets. That way, crap like that can’t happen at the table
If I've learned one thing from CritCrab, it is the importance of a session zero.
As a long time DM I would have actually stood up, taken a deep breath - reached across the table grabbed A s character sheet, had a good look at it and said "Yea as I thought - you were definetly turned into a Goldfish and eaten by a Psychopathic 5 year old. Now GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY HOUSE!"
There are so many good players out there, no use of living with the shitty ones.
Theres a special place in hell for players and characters that stare the dm in the face and say "my character wouldn't do that." Played with a That Guy when the DM played a fear mechanic that worked on an entwined sanity stat. Whenever That Guy would fail, he wouldnt play his character any different, despite the language being that he was 'terrified'. Theres a difference between courage and ignoring the situation completely. Hes also the guy who never seems to roll below 10 on his dice. On initiative rolls, he would always get above 20, and would somehow always hit despite always rolling at disadvantage due to the curse on his bow (made by the DM specifically to nerf him). All of his "characters" were stat blocks and hardly had any bearing on the plot. He was also meta-game king, he would read the DMG and MM for fun and say, out loud, what the encounter was the moment he realized, ruining the build up, in spite of if his character actually knew what those things are.
Unless that guy was hosting, as a DM, I would of asked him to leave the table, asap!
I got to the point where he said "because the post is pretty long" and I looked at the time expecting a 30 minute video, then I saw it was only 7 minutes XD
Guess watching primarily videos that are 10-30 minutes long have set my expectations different :)
It sounds like the entire group is a pain. I wouldn't play with them if shit like this were common occurences.
Makes me happy youvuse the word BUNK. Thought i was the only one
I think the dm was DEFINITELY a saint. If he did anything the group would fall apart. He sacrificed his dignity for the party.
The lot of them are cowards.
The DM didn't need to apologize. The asshole player should have been kicked out there and then.
I feel so bad for so many people
Yup! Allowing one jackass player to walk all over the group isn't heroic or patient, it is a death sentence for the game.
In my games, we always dealt with toxic players by killing their PCs, the party, the DM or some combo...they eventually quit or get better, if not good. If if another player wants to take the side of the crap player, we’ll, every such player I dealt with was able to be reasoned with & stayed.
There wasnt a good guy in that story. Everyone was a tool. Never let your game be held for ransom...
A was ether cheating or being a bad communicator
everyone made a fu*ked up ending and the DM probably should have said something like: okay you do your character whatever, I guess you can decide on why you were absent in game. now let's just continue
That's when you put his character against a challenge he can't win and watch as he dies.
I hate those that enable this type of bs in people. This just means they think they can do this attitude again and again, ruining further games and people's fun. The DM wasn't a saint, he was spineless. They should have just told him his character was now a goldfish and he has to make a new one, or leave.
Reminds me of my last groups "immortal" magus that never went down and dealt about 120 damage with shocking grasp at level 4...
120 with shocking grasp at level 4?
I want that build.
Whatever is being used to justify that, I want it.
Malyssa C I really don’t understand how these players do shit like this, the DM can literally point to what they are doing and if it is impossible it doesn’t fly
Often it is harder to deal with friends then it is strangers, this particular player isn't even friends with any of us anymore.. issues at and beyond the table
I had a player like this, who cheated all the time. Me and the rest of the players kicked him out. He wanted to return to the game and when he could not do that, he called us bullies.
Letting people PvP is a crimson flag.
PvP is one thing that requires the most maturity from all parties involved.
Not allowing PVP is taking away player agency and forcing them to put up with some idiot's BS.
I've had games where all the other PCs would mob the annoyance, slap him down to 0 HP, tie him up securely, heal to 1HP and deliver the PC to the magistrate for hanging.
@@fhuber7507 If taking player agency is what's needed to keep the group from disbanding, so be it.
You're entitled to have your own opinion, but do not expect for a minute that your anecdotal experience, however positive it may be, will change my opinion based on a lot of my own personal experience and from reading many more horror stories with PvP at its core. Slapping down That Guy's action and booting him from the group will yield better results than allowing PvP to run its course.
Depends on the context. Unjustified pvp is bad, but I wouldn’t say any possible instance of pvp is instantly negative and indicated that a dm is a terrible dm.
only times I feel PvP works is 1) a spar to test out a new character to see how they hold up or 2) the party is clearly divided and diplomacy hasn't changed anything toward either side. being mindful that in game is vastly different then out of game.
For me, this is the worst story I’ve heard so far. Every thing about it was heartbreaking and sickening. All the players were spineless or traitors and it sounds like the DM has no self respect. I know this is old now but damn, I feel for you OP. Hope you get the group you deserve.
Me as DM: I'm sorry that feel like you need an apology.
"I'm sorry that you're such a terrible person, and that I ever put up with you in the first place. By the way I was lying, you didn't have a nightmare. You actually turned into a goldfish. And went to an abusive owner. Good riddance to you."
Dude the DM should have immediately called bullshit as soon as a spell was cast in which the character did not have a high enough spell slot for
Ok. Imma be honest. The dm is the overall ruling judge of the entire game. I'm a Dm myself. I've had to deal with problem players myself. Best way to deal with a problem player that doesn't want to take a hint, make an immortal enemy that will only target the problem player. As a matter of fact there is a monster that literally has an innate ability that allows it to track a target as long as the target is on the same plane as it. It always knows where the target is and will tirelessly hunt them down.
I have a player in a campaign I’m doing and have been in campaign with said player who does bulls crap like that. Never asked the dm to apologize. Honestly the only reason I still have him in campaign is because I live in a very small town.
DM is a doormat.
If the group can't deal with a problem player there is no reason for the group to exist
How would a session 0 have kept A from cheating?
I would've told A to run away and never return.
If I would have been the DM, I would have been responded with "get the fuck out."
I wonder if OP ever made a follow-up on this.
You shouldn't need a session zero for "DON'T FUCKING CHEAT" to be a given.
I really enjoy these videos, but I would really appreciate subtitles or the post off to the side (so it doesn't block your gameplay) because my hearing isn't the greatest. I recently subbed, and I'd really appreciate if you could maybe look into that. Thanks so much for fun videos and good content!
Thank you for the constructive comment. I have been trying to look into ways be non intrusive and still get the job done. I've been considering using the subtitles. But I may try something else, any thoughts?
@@CritCrab if you put just two or three lines of the post running along the bottom of the video, you could move the lines along with your reading. That would be a non-intrusive way to do it, and it seems easier than having to make audio transcripts of everything you say and then adding subtitles to the video 😊
@@emmagrace1812 Sounds great! Expect it.
Sorry that happen to you I hope your adventures get better
says: dm is a freaking saint also says: dm has no spine
Yup ... a guy taking advantage of the often weak (socially awkward) personalities drawn to table top RPGs, and the DM being susceptible to the sunk cost fallacy.
I've already said this in comments to several other videos, but it bears repeating:
Rule # 1 of DM-ing: Don't care too much about your campaign. Bad faith actors well smell your weakness and use ot against you. Be willing to scuttle the proverbial ship.
Rule # 2 of DM-ing: Don't care too much about your campaign. Bad faith actors well smell your weakness and use ot against you. Be willing to scuttle the proverbial ship.
Rule # 3 of DM-ing: Don't care too much about your campaign. Bad faith actors well smell your weakness and use ot against you. Be willing to scuttle the proverbial ship.
etc etc etc.
Ugh I don't have the patience for people like this. If you don't like something then don't play. If I was a DM and some of the people acted liked this I would say you play my way with the rest of the table or you don't play.
If there was a sessions zero A would have just lied and said he was going to play normal
Every DM needs to have a back bone
The DM was in a difficult spot. On one hand, yes he should have a spine and stand up to the cheater, he also had to make a conscious decision between maintaining the group and not maintaining the group. Half the players would have left if he stood up to the cheater, unfortunately, and it's not always easy to get new players. As an aside, A's character sounds like a really interesting concept, a 20th level character with access to nerfed versions of his max level abilities, slowly regaining his strength as he levels up. Definitely would be fun to play in a high power level setting.
All this means is that A can get away with anything. I'd rather not play than play with A
Never ever scarifice your dignity to A holes. Especially not your a game. Your dignity is not so cheap that its worth losing over something your supposed to do for fun
r/rpghorrorstories is best sub lol
you are the best sub
@@CritCrab
Unexpectedly wholesome 10/10
There were no heros in this story
I'd have told the guy flat out get lost
I mean, this is not the sort of thing a session 0 can address. No one is going to say, "I expect to cheat in a game." It is just something that happens with inscrupulous people.
Also, the dm is not the jerk wrangler. The problem player is affecting the whole game so they are everyone's problem. Just because they plan a game does not mean they are now your mother and need to wipe your nose and tell you to play nice with others.
If someone came to my table and acted like this, then I'd have to stop the game and politely ask them to leave the table then have a quick chat with them and explain the issue...if they can fix it, then if they stop their toxic ways they could be able to play in the future if not...I'd have to let them go for good
So, i'm just going to say, i don't think that he was saying that this instance made the GM a saint, but that from previous experiences he thought of him as a saint.
That's literally how it was said too. Either that or he was saying he had the patience of a saint, but that seems a stretch.
He definitely wasn't saying he was a saint because he was allowing this to happen.
What you have there is what we in the 70s called a munchkin.
Yeah, now they call them powergamers, minmaxers, and metagamers. but munchkin will always be the og and the best.
Min maxer to me is something else. But maybe its because Im carrying over the terminology from non tabletop rpgs.
That ain't no munchkin
That's a straight up cheater with self esteem issues
@@Konpekikaminari munchkins cheat. in fact, this is what is usually the distinction of a minmaxer and a munchkin. A minmaxer will exploit the rules to give themselves an advantage and try to make the best character possible given certain criteria. A munchkin will pull all the tricks to be the best, including straight up cheating, making up "homebrew" which is wildly off balance and heavy metagaming.