Is Duct Board Dangerous for my HVAC System?⚡
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Is duct board dangerous for your HVAC system? Fibrous glass duct insualtion is used for thermal insulation of the air going into the air plenum for your duct system. People are being told by HVAC salesmen and HVAC technicians that duct board makes for dangerous ducts. They say it's because the fibers fall off and enter the air stream. I wanted to go over this topic. I have talked to the professionals at Johns Manville. I had an in depth conversation with them at the AHR convention in 2022.
They are the experts when it comes to fibrous glass insulation. They said duct board insulation is manufactured to NAIMA standards. The following groups also have standards and recommendations for the installation of them as well as the safety of the product.
ASHRAE - American Society of Heating, Refrigeration, and Air-Conditioning Engineers
ASTM - American Society for Testing and Materials
EPA - Environmental Protection Agency
NFPA - National Fire protection Agency
SMACNA - Sheet Metal & Air Conditioning Contractors’ National Association
ICC - International Code Council, Inc.
AIA - American Institute of Architects
AIHA - American Industrial Hygiene Association
AMA - American Medical Association
We don't install fibrous duct board, but I also don't have a problem with existing homes that have it as part of their HVAC ductwork. It's even in my own house, and I feel totally comfortable with it.
Please help our channel produce more quality content for those interested in our industry.
SUPPORT HVAC and the BLUE COLLAR TRADES!
/ foxfamily
Please visit our website @ / foxfamily
If you'd like to book an appointment with Fox Family Heating and Air in Sacramento, El Dorado, or Placer County, CA book.housecall...
Visit us on our social media pages:
Facebook @ / foxfamilyheatingaircon...
Twitter @ / foxfamilyhvac
LinkedIn @ / greg-fox-46ab48
Oooh this video is pretty controversial 😂 I think I struck a nerve with this one! The intent of this video is to shed some light on the topic. Not to advocate it or disparage it. Share your comments, let us know your experience with this stuff. Thanks for watching 😊
Thank you for an honest video, harder and harder to find with HVAC contractors nowadays.
I think ductboard has its place. If you can keep the critters and water away, it's probably not a bad product as it seems to last forever in a proper environment. The problem with externally insulated metal duct is that it's very expensive to do it correctly. I see lots of metal w/ bubble wrap, and that isn't so great.
I can show you a photo of spiral with external bubble wrap that I installed in the conditioned space of an auto dealership.s large service shop. It looks as good today as when installed 18 years ago.
Been in trade a long time. I personally used this duct over 30 plus years ago and still seems to be intact . I think the environment that we put hvac systems in is tough on the systems. Hard to keep the indoor coils clean . Especially in attic installations. I wonder if these ductless mini splits are the way to go if you don't mind looking at them on the walls. Good video. Wish we had this utube thing when I was starting out. Thanks.
Better late than never!
I was looking to redo ductwork at attic which required few thermal boxes. So ordered few precut fiberglass thermal boxes but once they arrived just touching them or standing next to them once unpacked cause itching. End-up returning them and made my own from galvanized sheet metal. Because I was not constricted to shape typical case with prefabricated items, I could make craft better distribution box resembling turret with large intake at the bottom and 5 equal outlets sized to accommodate throughput of intake flex, then sealed it with tape and duct sealant and wrapped in FRK. It is much more work but I personally didn’t feel comfortable to use fiber duct board in my own houses knowing that me and family will be breathing air that blows through and may pick loose fibers. I understand that lab test were made to call those safe for use in residential. But, it is very contingent on precise cutting of board so when it assembled liner layer is tight at each fold and no fiber layer is exposed, as you start mounting collars on those there is no way to have fiberglass layer to be isolated from air flow.
We always use metal plenums and rarely line them, we always exterior wrap with 2"-FSK and never use AstroFoil, I don't want the dust collector from the liner and the reason we don't use AstroFoil is it has to be installed with an air gap or it will have less than 1 for an R value. The whole object of lining is to keep the ducts from sweating and for sound. However, because everything today has flex duct sound is never an issue.
Again, we always replace the duct board plenum with a sheet metal plenum, that fits the new unit. I find I can't poke my finger through sheet metal, yet I can through duct board, not as durable, give it a try. In addition, critters love to chew through the stuff and use your ducts as highways to gain access into rooms. Of course, they can do the same to flex duct.
If we find duct board triangle boxes, which you didn't mention, we will offer replacing them with sheet metal wyes. We do this not because duct board is bad, we do it because we can improve airflow. However, we charge for it and give the customer the option. In addition, we find in most cases when we test in the system that we need to replace the triangles so that we can be sure we are delivering the right amount of air to the rooms to provide proper cooling and heating. Of course we derive this from our load calculation and our test in with the flow hood.
Good video, keep posting.
by the way Electrical module for IHACI through PG&E is starting tomorrow night online here is where you can sign up and the class schedule, the classes are free and at night as a webinar.
www.ihaci.org/education-training/current-class-offerings/stockton/
Good stuff as always Mitch. A true pro!
Mitchell, I agree, we do the same.. Rarely do we use flex duct, never use duct board. Both deteriorate over time. After 30-40 years both may need replaced. Also Rodents can chew through both. Third generation, since 1949 Have had to replace entire duct systems that engineers specified with ductboard.
There are some sealants that can be applied to the fiber surfaces with rollers; this diminishes fiber loss due to air flow; however it doesn't help with rodents seeking water from condensate!
My Father worked in HVAC as a subcontractor he cut and folded fiberglass duct board at job sites. He sometimes brought me along i couldn't have been no more that 7 years old. I remember picking up small pieces of the duct board that were left over after he used hand tools to cut wedges out of a sheet so it could fold to make various geometric shapes, and I noticed little sparkles of reflected light as the liberated strings of fiberglass floated through sunbeams that came though the unfinished gaps where the windows would be installed.
This fascinated my autistic self, I remember taking the pieces over to the sunbeams and clapping the duct board together just to see millions of sparkles in the sunlight.
This was the mid to late 1970s Did didn't use a mask of any type nor did I.
He dided in 1992 of lung cancer, and also probably have doomed myself.
The fiberglass sheets may have a coating of sealer applied at the factory, but that gets torn away wherever the tools are used.
Sorry for your loss. I've been in the business over 30 years, been going to the doctor, no cancer detected.
Eventually you’ll have to get your return ducts cleaned. Unfortunately the aggressive air whips (that work the best) can tear up interior duct insulation. Even if it’s your return plenum. I HEPA vacuum my return plenum and notice it’s losing its integrity over the years.
A well done and informative video. I’m looking forward to some more. I’m a GC, always looking to learn a little more here and there. I sub out the HVAC to a great company, but it’s always good to learn some more, and the groups and trade sources, that was a great touch. 👍👍👍
Duct board has its place.crawl spaces is the one area I don’t think sound be used.also so many companies don’t install it right.i have never seen any one hot ironing the tape on.personally I have been doing heating and air conditioning for over 30 years and have worked for the same small family owned company.we don’t use duct board and everything is sheet metal.yes it cost more for the customer but it’s worth it.most companies use duct board because it’s cheaper and don’t have a sheet metal shop.
Very true sheet metal is the best way do it!
Comparing duct board to flex, is not typically the issue, it's comparing it to a metal plenum insulated on the outside. I think it also depends on the region you live in and how much humidity. The amount of growth I see in my region with duct board would steer anybody away from using that stuff.
100% true in the Southeastern U.S. - we replace duct board plenums with externally insulated and extremely well sealed metal plenum boxes all day long. Duct board performance comes down to the installation quality of the technician, and most installers do a poor quality job installing duct board.
Our system is blowing fiberglass dust into our house. Looks like the last time they worked on the system, a duct board was broken. They taped it up but somehow fiberglass is getting in through the vents. We are trying to figure out how to fix the situation.
get rid of it all if you are in a primary heating zone go all mini splits. they have ceiling cassettes now and dont require the big box on the wall. I was an am a carpenter and anyone who tries to tell me fiberglass isnt bad can go suck it. These "tests" are done in controlled environment by people who are being very careful when building the test duct. If you think the HVAC guy crawling around on his belly sweating like crazy in A 150°+ attic is doing the same quality job as the guys in the the lab you have another thing coming. Ductwork is dirty, nasty, and down right dangerous if its fiberglass this stuff should be illegal.
The filter doesn’t seal perfectly in the air handler allowing particles to get past. They need to make better filter holders.
정말 감사합니다. 한결 마음이 편안해졌어요.❤
After seeing how much black mold has grown in that duct board that I have been breathing every day, I would do anything to get rid of that crap.
Should duct board from 1985 be replaced if it looks intact visually but the air makes you cough and get a dry mouth?
Why does the warning lable on the duct board box say may cause cancer duct board is crap
Why do capacitors, blower motors and sheet metal elbows say the same thing?
@@foxfamilyheatingandaircond4696 Just in case of a class action lawsuit!
Only if you live in California ….. if you don’t, then your good!
I'm battling dust particles in my home with duct board trunk lines in the attic from the 90s. I found product by red devil called d-seal that can be painted on to encapsulated the fiberglass interior. I will have to cut the top off and glue it back together
Did this product work out good for you?
@@chadriddle3517 yes, but difficult to access entire interior of duct. Two coats are needed to seal the fibers in. Use the d seal and all weather foil tape to close any openings you have to cut. I cut openings at a 45 degree so it will close up. Seal the ends of the cut duct board, close the lid on the 2nd coat while.wet. when dry use the all weather foil tape.
@@danslamusique appreciate the tips ! I removed a 14” duct to access most of it but I need to seal it in like you did ! Did it have bad odor ? Thanks for the communication. I’ll look this product up an find some immediately
Did the sealant smell bad?
@@alexs6250 yeah, used a resperator.. didn't run the system for days until cured. It does not have a smell after its fully dry.
All good info, but this seems to be the 2nd uploading of this video; what was wrong in the original version?
Yeah sorry about that. Yesterday's was a mistake. I wasn't quite done with it.
I haven’t been working in this trade very long (a year and 4 months at the time of this writing), but I have never heard anything bad about ductboard. Where I currently work, we typically use insulated metal for plenums and distribution boxes.
Cool Greg. Thanks for chiming in!
Why take a chance with a duck board fiberglass
It should be alternative material what happened to the foam deck boards is that available
great video, I wondered this very thing as I got my first glance inside the box. Does anyone put the fuzzy side out?
Any concerns with using Fiberglass (Linacoustic) in newly installed metal ducts also wrapped with R-8 Bubble in N.J. very concerned about mold being able to adhere to the fiberglass compared to bare metal interior. Would so much appreciatte the feedback.
Is this sort of plenum just in the US? I am from Canada and have lived in 5 different homes, and have had me head in more ducts and main plenums than most normal home owners. And I have never seen anything on the interior of any ducts or plenums that I have seen visually. I even have an access door for my A coil so I can check it yearly for any build up and clean if needed, and with that, its just bare metal plenum. This is of course what I can see with my eyes, it could be in areas I have no access to. Is that normal or just a cost savings? As well, I can recommend that exterior bubble wrap works. I have lowered my furnace room temperature my 2 degrees wrapping all my plenums and ducts that I can reach. With a temperature gun going from bare metal to the wrap, there was a 5 degrees difference
That's a pretty substantial energy lo$$.
@@bobboscarato1313 Is it though? I dont live in the US, where the HVAC is in the attic. Im in Canada, where are furnace and ducting are in the basement and basement ceiling. So any heat loss as such is still inside the house. I just didnt want to need my furnace room that hot. I assume that heat is forced further down the line, but those same ducts you cant access, so that heat loss so to speak is just in the cavity between the basement and the upper floor.
@@virgil3241 Before we moved to Texas, we lived in NY and furnace/ water htr. were in the basement. I added AC to the house and put AH in the attic over the garage and condenser behind garage.
I don't know if duct board is cancerous or not. Like asbestos fiber glass is hooked microscopically. So i can see their point. And most asbestos cases take about 50 years for the cancer to grow. There is a lot of data online. And you as a tech im sure you have used a fiber glass ladder that has started flaking. It happens to me. Causes a rash because those barbs dig into you. I talked to my doctor and said wash with hot water to expand the pours to help release the fiber glass. It took 2 days but it was a pain.
If your girlfriend or wife are allergic to glass fibers you may get divorced..!
Yes Dr.
Im a carpenter not a HVAC pro but this crap should be illegal.
Where is a good place to buy duct board and tools in the sacramento area?
could try Sacramento appliance or Grainger
Really all of the manufactieres should not be putting exposed fiberglass inside an air system. That is just not smart.
What could possibly go wrong ;-)
So the answer is no......just start the video there.
At 6000 FPM is that a joke . Average residential is 500-900FPM velocity . why would you say a test at 6000 FPM was don a no fibers came loose . At 6000 FPM that duct board would be a kite who are you guys kidding here . Duct-board looses its seal as you said and then compromises indoor air quality . I have serviced customers after 15 year exposure who had 1 year left to live because of respiratory problems . They had maids dusting the house once a day and could not figure out where this dust was coming from . The duct-board is no good . Its very nice and easy to work with but not cool . Metal ductwork wrapped on the outside is the way to go. Its your lungs do not be cheap about it . Please show these test's at 6000FPM please , I really wanna see this snake oil .
Ductboard is trash and so are the contractors who peddle it
Agreed! They made my plenums out of it and left exposed fiberglass ends and I’m just seeing it 7 years later . It contained moisture and grew mold and exposed my family to fiberglass particles
best to leave duct board to the hacks in florida
It was a yes or no answer why you make it so long without answering the dmnn question “stoop Ed pack “ 🤦♂️