How Theon and House Greyjoy Could Have Won the Game of Thrones
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2024
- Yes, we're taking this seriously. Thom explains how House Greyjoy consisting of Balon, Theon, Yara/Asha and Euron could have defeated each of the following Kings, Joffrey, Renly, Robb and Stannis to have won the clash of kings and the game of thrones.
Though defeating Robb might not be a thing...
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Contents
00:00 Intro
00:40 Goals, Strengths and Weaknesses
02:44 Step 1
11:46 What's Next? 
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Let's be honest, Balon would probably find a way to muck it all up
balon is a so not intellingent and he doesn't deserve to share a name close to baelor brake-spear or baelon the brav. there are many noble men with the name that starts with "balo" and the iurn islands give us the worst one of all. i mean he isen't even brav, all he does is sit on his see stone chair and insult people all day.
i hav a question. if the iern island is all about earning ur right to lead and taking what u want, how did not intellingent balon become king?? or is the iern islands like the rest of westernos where the oldest son become the lord or the king? or isen't it?? i'll ad mit i'm a bit confused, because why does balon get to just become leader of iern islands because he is oldest, but eronn and asha and theon and victaron had to do a king moot?? should not theon become king becaus he is the oldest son o balon, much like how balon became in charg himself? or no? and why not?
and why eronn was aloud in charge then? and if it was so simple, why eronn did not become in charge back when their father die instead of balon?
@@pIayingwithmahwiiMix of that and the king's moot. Where all the Lord's of the iron islands, influencial officers and whatnot gather to choose a new king. Though I don't remember if that's only when the succession is unclear or when there is a clear heir.
@@philippeblais8594 so basically they did it because they didnt like theon cuz he foster at winter fell, and cause has no balls which means he wont make a good king cuz he cant hav kid? does that sum it up is that why they did the Moot when it should hav gone to Theon but not when it went to Balon?
They call a Kings Moot because Theon isn't there to claim the throne and some of them don't want a woman leading them so it puts Asha/Yaras claim in peril. Damphir wanted Victarion to go for the crown but Euron showed up to offer more.
If our version we solve the sexism issue with Theon being present and by helping taking the westerlands they've expanded the empire and shown they've got ambition or did something of worth.
-Thom
@@TheFandomeClips anything as long as Eronn doesn’t take the throne. Euron seem like a nice enough guy right now but I worry the power will go to his head and he will end up like Fake Aegon with a anger issues and he may start doing bad thing if he get any more power.
There something about that euron guy i don’t trust, I worry he could rlly do some bad thing if he get to powerful but maybe I’m not being fair to Euron who knows maybe he will turn out a good ruler. He seem kinda nice to his people the iorn islanders I guess a good ruler should care for they people right
Step 1: Accept Robb's Offer
Step 2: ...
Step 3: Profit
What's Step 2? There is no need for a Step 2. Just go to Step 3.
the step 2 is the magic irun island secret ingredient. it's the secret engredient where they somehow screw it up, and replace step 3 with "loose another war" xD, and get robb killed even befoar ) the red wedding LOLL
BRO WAT THA Heck! U literally have the name "LordBloodraven" like the official youtube account with that name. sicne u joined u-toube in 2007! that's crazy! u have been a fan of the books longar than many new fans have even been alive LOL!
also btw can i plz get ur account? i would love to have that u-tube account! u can say no but it can't hurt to ask, right? lol
Robb’s offer was subordination in the show. It was a bad one.
The lannisters no longer had a fleet, nor the ability to defend effectively defend from the sea.
The lannister army was deployed in the riverlands leaving old men and green kids to garrison the castles. Meaning they would have no chance against hardened ironborn warriors. The difference between this and their campaign in the north would be that a.) they would have allies supporting them, b.) they would be fighting in a warmer friendlier climate that it would be easier to forage from, c.) the plunder actually would profit the iron islands.
@@CatotheE how? He offered to accept Balon as King if he'd do the same for him and fight alongside him. No one else would offer that. Balon's issue wasn't the offer, it was how it was worded ''He'll give me a Crown, GIVE ME a crown!'' That and he wanted revenge more than he wanted to strengthen his people.
It’d be really funny if Robb gave the Boltons the Westerlands for their loyalty
Balon needs to stop breathing forever
okay, calm down Euron. - Thom
@@TheFandomeClips lol of all the bad things Euron did, him taking out Balon allows me to forgive everything else
@@OurHiltsHurt really dude? I agree Ballon stink as king, but im getting tired of everyone judging Euron pre judging him before they realy get to know him. we don’t kno for a fact if Euron did all the stuff ppl say’s he did. As of right now they are just accusations, notheng more. I mean do we rlly wanna repeat of what happen in season 1??
U know to whom I am refer to right? I mean I feel like I’m getting flash back to another Honorable high lord being accuse, just like everyone does to Euron right now. Who else remember Lord Stark, being wrongly accused of treason witch he didn’t commit but was punished for it anyway. Western is already a realy not fair country to live, so we can’t simply Ignore “do process” that say that all High Lords have that same access to a rightful trial made up of their pears or a trial of combat if they dasire.
Just because Euron is a little rough around the edges and a little awkward (just like Ned cough couch) doesn’t mean he don’t should not still have rights. Anyone of the great Lords deserves it.
About him. Tbh it seems like most of the accusation are from Euron brother’s, and his brother’s are just jelous that he got to become king and they hav to be stuck as a mear warrior and a mear priest XD which are lame imo. while euron get to be a king plus he is rich since he is a pirate. They are jelous for sure. Maybe if euron brother’s didn’t blame euron for everything bad that happen to them then they might have had the Grit and Determination to become king instead of euron himself, u. Never know. But instead they chose to be in their pity party and to insult euron and make accusation’s. U can’t win a campaign on nothing but attack ads. That is something I learned from the campaign trail.
I will grant u this. I will grant that I am sure that it’s possible, that Euron has possibly done some bad things, but everyone has in this story it’s the Game of Thrones, u win or u get deleted right?
This is one of the worst, they bring up some crime that everyone else in the story would commit about Euron, whom has done nothing that Jon Snow or Denarius herself wouldn’t do if put in his shoes. He is the one out there making the hard choices for all 3 of them. While they just coast along on all the love. Euron is the third head of the Dragon that Danny’s brother Ray talk’ed about for the Proffisee. The Whereas Jon is the Prince whom was Promised, Euron is the Third head of the dragon, aka the King whom was promised. Jon will take euron place perhaps we don’t know.
It possible Euron must take the iron thrown in order to save Westeros, we really don’t know for sure since Euron is such a mysteryou’s figure. I believe he is much like akin to Cerberus Snape from Harry Podder. By that I mean he can seem dark and edgy and rough a round the edge’s, but I have a feeling we will find out he is a bit misunderstood and at the end of the day he only wants wat’s best for the realm, just like a lot of fan favorite’s. Maybe Euron will teach Danny that she can’t help the people and save the world by being all friendly with kindness and smiles.
In order to help people at the end of the day u have to be willing to sacrifice them and get rid of anyone who standing in ur way to ur rise. People can’t be helped without this. Euron could teach Danny and Young Jon this lesson’s before he make a heroic sacrifice to save them. That is my theoretical on Euron Grey joy finally fate but we shall see I guess right? We shall see indeed
Casterly Rock is one of the greatest castles built inside of a mountain and has never fallen. the Lannisters have been fighting the Iron Islands for thousands of years. The Westlands are used to fighting the Iron Islanders. Their castles were built to fight those raiders from the sea.
yeah cuz the iurn island ppl are so dumb that they r rlly dumb. if u put me in chage of the iurn fleat i garantea u the castly rock would fall in a week or more. maybe even a month. all i would need to hav is eurin gray joy as my second in command general
or maybe i wood do wat trywin lanister did, accept to his own castly rock. think about it, as u say it's on a ocean. all i would hav 2 do is let the ocean into the castel, and it would floud. that's why every good king knows u never should build ur castels on a ocean, because it can easely be floudded. by the ocean water i mean, in case that wasent clere
@@pIayingwithmahwii While I agree, Casterly Rock does have its own Coastal dock. It's also taller than the Wall in the North. It'll be very hard to flood. George RR Martin says that it's the strongest Castle in Westeros.
@@DarkKing009 yes but the ocean is very large. the ocean has even more water then a lake by a long shot. i would say maybe a lake couldn't floud it the castly rock, but a ocean? how can it not be floudded by the ocean? i heard there is even more water than land on earth so i feel like it could flud anything since there is more water then land right? even if it is on a tall, i think the ocean is pretty deep which means it can sink into tjhe ocean no? and then get floudded
Our belief was Lannisport which is right next to Casterly Rock would be the weakness they can focus on which may in turn give them Casterly Rock. Even if the Rock holds out, they don't have to actively assault it, but they can take advantage of the lesser protected port which would most likely be an important asset.
Tywin has most of the army with him and Robb just annihilated whatever was left that they tried to raise at Oxcross.
IIRC Robb needed Balons help if he was going to take Lannisport, which might be well protected against the land, but not as protected against the sea.
Would have loved to see this in action though. - Thom
The westerlands hate the Iron Islanders. They'll never openly surrender either ever.
Everyone hates the Ironborn.
However, the Greyjoys may marry a Lannister at some point if they want to avoid a reign of terror.
And since Theon is already betrothed to Sansa at that point, it only leaves Yara.
Coincidentally Robb has an heir to Casterly Rock in stock.
But I'd say both would potentially prefer death than being forced to marry let alone produce an heir.
And Jaime is marked for death anyways with the sun of winter always above him
@@KeptaroLancel is a better choice, weaker willed and not as likely to be executed
Tell that to the Riverlands. They hated the Ironborn just as much yet submitted all the same in the days before Aegon.
Most of their lords will die either in Riverlands or at Blacwater , house Lefford was left without his lord even in the real timeline
@@pergos1 That's what I was thinking. Rob conquers the nobility of the land, the iron born the coast, and it's gifted to the Iron born... the iron born just become the "richest" kingdom, already have some mining experience, and with rob at their back they may be a bit less tyrannical. The small folk won't rise up, and the other threats are out. The biggest threat would be an independent Reach with a strong fleet and stronger unblooded army deciding they deserve the gold more than the Iron Born, which is a war I think the reach win, and the north.... allows.
Two flaws though the overall move of accepting the offer is a good one
1. They still need the Freys to get to Riverrun. There is no water route to the east to relieve Riverrun without going around the entire continent (at least that I’m aware of). Without breaking the siege, they wouldn’t capture Jaime. Maybe the pressure on the Westerlands would cause them to need to withdraw but you still don’t capture Jaime that way.
2. Lysa controlled the Vale and wouldn’t let them join the war even when it seemed like the Lannisters were on their heels and the capital was going to fall to Stannis. It seems unlikely they would join the war until the war was virtually over if Lysa maintained control of the Vale
Aha just to fill in some gaps !
1.So Robb doesn't send the offer to Balon until he's declared king in the north, by that point Riverrun has already been relieved and Jaime captured. They've already got what they needed at that point from Walder Frey. Although Frey contributes 4000 men to the cause and is an important ally, Robb only needed his aid again when he needed to go back North to retake it from the Iron Born, if that doesn't happen, then Frey doesn't have Robb Stark by the balls. However we do detail alot of the ripple effects that happen if Iron Islands doesnt attack the North and that includes Robb potentially not breaking his marriage pact ( at least in the books).
2. Correct, we never fully include the Vale into our calculations, but looking at them how everyone else would, they would assume they would just put their lott in with the Northern Alliance. Even if they joined at the end, thats a good chunk of additional reinforcements, fresh and ready.
Hope that clears some things up ! - Thom
@TheFandomeClips lysa would never have brought the vale into the war without littlefinger giving her the go ahead, the Vale is limited to a last minute reinforcement at best
That's why the real game winning move for the Starks is to give Baelish what he wants: Cat.
Marry her to Baelish make him Robb senior advisor and win.
Baelish disposes of Lysa and installs either Robert/Robyn or Harry and the Vale crushes the Lannister eastern flank
The tyrells pull back or declare their own independence and Dorne follows suit
Stannis takes KL sure but doesn't have the resources to re conquer the continent
@@thealmightyturters6097 I think the decisive moment would be if Stannis takes King's Landing. If that heppends, Littlefinger knows Stannis will kill him, and the Lannisters would be way too weak to actually win.
In this case, I believe Littlefinger will switch sides, bring the Vale into the Northern Coalition to secure independence and concessions.
this just shows lannisters thicc plot-armor. they would have lost in every scenario except the one in the books. whether the greyjoys side with robb or renly kneel to stannis or dorne wanting revenge or even vale joining the war. they must shit gold cause they are lucky as shit
Nailed it ! They were playing extreme mode in the books 😂 - Thom
It's not plot armour, it's George deciding to tell an interesting story, George wrote it so that balon was stupid because if he wasn't and renly kneeled and dorne entered the war then we wouldn't have got the story we got and could still get more of. The world George created was engineered for the lannisters to win because its a more interesting story, not because they have plot armour
@@thealmightyturters6097 lol that literally wat plot armor is bro. U just define wat plot armor is like a diction arry. U can argue if it a good thing that they Lannister’s team have it, or if it was done good (I would say Yeas to both these questionnaires) but they DO have plot armor :) so yea
Yeas I agree with my own previous comment above. Plot armor is when something unrealistic happen (or a Serie’s of unrealistic avents unfoldeds) for the Sayk of telling a more interesting story.
But plot armor is an tool a righter can use, and like any toole it neither gud or bad. It depend on how the Arthur write that plot and how he use the plot armor toole. Just like a blade is neither good nor bad in and off itself, it depend how the man who wield the blades. Gregor cle gane wield the blade for evil, whereas lord Esdras Stark wield his blade for the purpose of good and honour. So yea the Lan Nister family has plot armor as we all agree here that if anything else happen the Lan Nister would’ve be crushed, and their false born” king” Jeffrey “Baratheon!” (Cough cough) but like u I agree that the event that train spire in the books the way they did was the most interesting story so it was a good use of plot armor to armor the Lannister tribe with a modicum plot armor
@@thealmightyturters6097 most people nowaday have been seeing to many BAD plot armors. It’s like if u only ever seeing too many Gregor cle ganes out in the wild and u never see a honorable knight like Duncan the Tall, u will start to think all knight and all swords are evil if u only see a bunch of gRegor cle games.
Many Arthur’s are bad at righting plot armour in a affective manner. They do it as though a amachure. Now allow me to demon straight this form of amachore righting with a example, or a demonstraitshun, if u will.
A example of a bad plot’s armour would be if Danny Danaerys is coming to kill the Lannis family with her dragon call Drogon, but then there’s a random storm ⛈ and before she can finally attack, before she can to make to her dragon to attack to the Lannister’s, a random bolt of lightning ⚡️ thunder tcome out of the sky and kill her Beloved Drogon. That Thunder. We can all agree wood be a example of an bad plot example of plot armor, because Not Only it is a rlly unrealistic way to protect the Lannistars, from Danny, More Importantly it is a rlly Boaring story. Way more boring than if something mor kool and intaresting and in tree ging or creyaytiv happened (I think I spelled creyaytiv right thts a tough one to spell haha. There a red line underneath it but I think auto spell check or watever could be glitching agen.).
Great video Fandome. However I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we have waited long enough. It's time to finished what you started and do the extended how the lannister's could have won video.
Aha it's on the docket for sure ! Coming soon ! Like... at least this year soon...
- Thom
Another nice bonus of this scenario is Theon would never be tortured by Ramsey and become Reek. He would hopefully find a way to stop being a little shit some other way but would probably learn something through fighting in the war as a Stark and Greyjoy and obtaining a position of power at the wars end.
The only real way they could win would be if a plague broke out on the mainland killing 90% of the population and Greyjoys survive due to their greatest asset (living on a separate island)
or if a long knight come and the oters the wite walker kill everyone in westeros, but the iern islands survive cuz the wite walker can't walk on water (it a little known fact but i hav a theory they can only walk on snow thats why they are call wite walker. notice they r not caled watter walker otherwise they willed simply walk around the Wall. altho i do wonder why they haven't simply walk up the Wall, since it is made of snow, which acording to my theorey they should b able to walk on. maybe they're ded servents cant walk on snow? something to consider. never thogut of that before
Westeros is about 10% the size of the actual habitable world so that island aint nowhere near far enough to not get plague spread, butyeah.
@@EshBBX if they ban ppl from coming in how can the plagg get in?
Nice to think how well it would go if only they listened to Robb's plan
Yeah, had to keep reminding myself this was about the Greyjoys considering how well it worked out for Robb! - Thom
You guys should try how Jon could win the game of thrones. His game starting post resurrection so hes really got a mountain to climb.
Win conditions.
Long night ended (the main goal)
King Aemon Targaryen, King of the 8/9 Kingdoms (Dorne is optional, The wildings arent the walls coming down eventually)
Great video as always the Greyjoys would still probably lose or mess it all up
I tend to look at the greyjoys as jumped up wildlings. Raiders but with a liking for saltwater.
love these videos!
My favorite culture in Asoif is the iron born. Its nice that you circled back to them
Had to come back to them! Even if it took us a year.... - Thom
@@TheFandomeClips
Funny, a year’s probably as long as the Greyjoys peak would last.
@@TheFandomeClips better late than never. Cool hearing from you
All robb has to do was send someome like Rickard Karstark and Greatjon Umber as they were the most loyal stark houses in the earlier season to balon and threaten balon to help them or else they would kill theon. Maybe them balon would have given them those ships to take lannisport.
Nah bro Balon is just a fucking idiot. He was already planning to attack the North even if it meant Theon’s death.
One slightly small probleem for the ironborn with the white walkers and there wights those undead are dead they dont breath so they don't have to swim they can walk on the sea bottom Aka pirates the 1 movie style or the the others/whitewalkers do a bit of ice magic and use glasiers
Another great video! Loved this one as always!
Aha thanks Mikox ! 😂 - Thom
Yaaaaaaaaa'ssss its that time of the month 🎉... I will never forgive the RUclips algorithm for recommending this to me 4 days late 😢
You should subscribe
Great Video. I'm still waiting for the Littlefinger winning video and Randyll Tarly apology.
Hey Hubert! Randyll Tarly apology will likely be part of the re uploaded commanders vid, you can hear me grovel to the Ran man there 😂 we also have a LF video in the works but I'm not sure when it's due to drop, but don't worry they are in the works! Thanks for watching as always mate! Liam
Another great video, im glad we have gotten to hear Tom, i hope that doesnt mean the regular guy is going anywhere (sorry cant rember his name)
Who? I don't know who you're talking about.... JKing! Liams not going anywhere, he's already recorded the next video and I'm halfway through editing, now he's moved onto the one after that ! - Thom
Hey Hayden, my name is Liam (the other guy with the more annoying and shouty voice) 😂 yeah I was chuffed to bits when Thom said he wanted to have a go at this one, if only to prove to everyone that he's a real person and not some voice in my head that I talk to 😂 we're baby stepping him into improving his recording set up so he can put his voice to use for more videos (we need to get his reverb/room echo down as you can no doubt hear in this vid) , which means more videos for you guys and I think it'll help us appeal to more people, his calm relaxed tone might be some peoples couple of tea vs my loud obnoxious projecting that I know irritates the crap out of some people 😂 thanks so much for tuning in as always matey! Liam
Pleas continue to make videos like this
You’re underestimating how fucking stupid Balon is.
Fandome, you need to theorise about when, if ever, we will get to read the Winds of Winter and Drean of Spring?
You hint at it here, but Tywin’s actually a pretty poor military commander. He spends months at Harrenhal letting the rest of the war develop not necessarily to his favor, marches in the wrong direction instead of reinforcing the defense of King’s Landing, and only pulls out a W by dumb luck…hmm, methinks there’s enough material for a whole video on the subject.
3:20 the map looks great
When I read the title, i let out a laugh. definitely one of the most unlikely scenarios
Thanks. I really like you guys; don't even care much about GOT but your videos are a lot of fun, so thank you.
Glad you like them! and thank you for the kind words! - Thom
Tyrells attempt to stay out of the fight
Stannis WILL remember that
And he will be happy that they dont go to war against him
@@flavius5722 Stannis? Happy? Next you'll be telling me of how much Tywin Lannister liked to laugh!
In the show they had Theon swear fealty to Robb and ask Balon to do the same. That was a dumb change from the books imo. It should have been presented as an alliance of equals, even if the anorth with it’s greater manpower and resources was the sr. partner.
*The North. Balon should have either offered Tywin an alliance before invading the North or allied with Robb in exchange for some land and invade the Westerlands. Casterly Rock might not fall, but the Greyjoys could have taken Faircastle, sacked Lannisport and raided the coast.
Greyjoy’s else from the iron islands are nothing but wildlings with boats.
Wouldn't Littlefinger Push Lyssia to join the lannisters?
Unironically would love to see a Frey video
The Freys should nhave done what they've been doing for thousands of years. stay behind their high walls, then bend the knee and join whoever is the likely strongest.
do this and they could have joined Dany when she sails over, with an intact powerful army and maybe gotten a marriage out of her.
with most of the videos, i feel that the usual best thing you could do, no matter what house you are, is stay out of it, and just bend the knee to whoever is the strongest at the time.
if i was balon, i'd stay out of it until i was sure the Lannisters would win, then bend the knee. then when Dany sails over, guess what? i've got a nearly untouched army and armada ready to go for her. I offer my son as her king, and bada bing bada boom, greyjoys are top dog.
Honestly the best way the starks can win is if tywin is decisivley defeated at the green fork wich would result in the death of tyrion the capture of the mountain and kevan lannister and mabey ser adam marbrand either way tywin is delt with and his army isnt much of a threat and this would encourage balon to join robb now that tywins image of invincibilitie is shattered
Balon was so damn arrogant that he cost himself the starks the whole damn realm gravely
Make a video about how Walder Frey could have won the iron throne for himself!
I have one complaint over this vid: ASOIAF is a very grounded series and it would take some very powerful blood magic to raise Balon's IQ high enough to not fuck it up xD
The Danerys will not be that big of a ptoblem if the kingdoms are separated ( in the book version )
The Dorne will just give Scrpions to anybody else , Tyrion had use Scorpions at the battle of the Blacwater , and the masters in general must know about them ,espicaly now that they appear in House of the Dragon
By the way Dany has 3 dragons but just one rider
Robb, Arya and Bran can all warg , and Danerys got pioson in her drink back in Mareen
To make it even better I think Olena/Mace would try to Mary Margery to Robb, and then Robb should marry Sansa to Theon to further secure the alliance provided he can get her back. Then there’s still Arya, Rickon and to a lesser extent Bran who he can marry for alliances, and he’ll potentially even John if he wants to legitimize him and release him from the nights watch
I haven’t watched the video yet but the only way I see Mace marrying Margaery to Robb in the books is if he’s going to become king of the seven kingdoms, because his great ambition is to have a child on the iron throne. I see the Tyrell pact with Renly remaining, provided they both accept Stannis’ terms of becoming his heir which I’m not sure in itself is that likely.
@@hi-ls6lt true I was more thinking that the goal was to have Margery as a queen which marrying Robb would accomplish plus then she would be queen of 3 of the seven kingdoms with the possibility of a 4th with the vale if Lysa gets her head out of her ass ( a tall order but some lords (bronze Yohn Royce and others) were already pushing to join) and now with a 5th the iron islands as a close ally, and now the westerlands completely surrounded would be relatively easy to take for the combined force of 4 or 5 of the kingdoms.
Lannisport does not have any gold in its mines. Tywin said in the series that those gold mains of theirs have ran out years ago. And if tywin dies, their whole economy dies with it.
In the show thats said. In the book, thats not the case as Robb and his men were robbing the mines around the Westerlands 😅😅 Not actually sure why they decided to take that route in the show tbh 🤷♂️
-Thom
@@TheFandomeClips Thanks for the reply, good to know the book lore as well.
@@johnysnoww3831Even in the show it made no sense the Gold mine would run dry. Gold deposit like that wouldn't go empty that quickly without modern equipment.
@@ucnguyenanh9414 But they have mained the gold over hundreds of years tho ?
@@johnysnoww3831 They can mine it for another hundred year and it won't run out, not with the equipment they still have.
Here to ask for how walder Frey could have sat the iron throne
Do a video ranking the best warriors from house targeryn
the best will probally be agmon the dragon knight. whom do u think is the best or the top 3?
@@pIayingwithmahwii Jon snow number 1 Daemon targeryn number 2 and Maegor the cruel number 3
@@pIayingwithmahwii the thing is aemon the dragon knight doesn’t have a lot of feats in the books
@@Alex-bz8lj ok ur right we dont know that much about the dragon knigt. also is jon snow really That skilled of a warrior that he's better than all of the other targareon's?? obviously we kno him the most by far but still... oh then i wonder, hyperthetially, do u think jon snow could have beaten robert baratheon on the trident if he were magically replaced of rhaegar that day?
also what about aemon One-Eye as far as ur overall targareon warrior rankings. oh and i know he doesnt really count but where would u put daemon black fire? what about bitter steel and blood raven? in terms of being warriors for all those 3 guys how good do u think they was in terms of all the targereans?
@@pIayingwithmahwii aemon is good but we haven’t seen him fight outside of training
Westlands did not perform the King of the Isles and the Rivers under House Hoare. The Riverlands and the Iron Island when one country. I doubt the Westlands would fall as quickly.
I always thought Robb needed to somehow marry Margery, even if thats not something he could’ve orchestrated at any point really. But in a timeline where he won he should have done that
problem is Tyrells have no reason to agree to that
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 they would after renly's death while robb was still winning. issue is the whole frey thing and the matter of reaching them
All in all good analysis. However I do my diverging takes.
1. Given Lysa's mens rea (god being a law student is destroying my humanity), I think whatever the Vale does is dictated by the political motivations of Littlefinger. Given that Littlefinger's goal seems to be becoming the most powerful person in westeros, I think he is going to make strides in aligning the Vale with the Reach as the most powerful faction in the fall out. Possibly also working with the Greyjoys in the Westerlands alongside of them. Either way, I think whatever the Vale does will be for the aims of making Baelish the most powerful man in westeros or as powerful as he can be. The only difference I think is the scope and scale.
2. I don't think the Tyrells would necessarily secede and become the kings/queens of the reach simply because I think doing so would put too much of a target on them than they are used to and probably want. Instead, I see the Reach taking a more disputed territory approach where they leverage their grain supplies to marry themselves into as many ruling families in Westeros as possible (IE Margery to Bran, Loras to Yara or Shireen, etc.). Not everyone will accept these offers, but winter is coming and the Tyrells in this scenario have all the bargaining power and even the winners in this war of the five kings are in no position to be picky.
3. The Martells are in an interesting place seeing how there are no more vengeance to be had (outside of maybe the mountain and perhaps Stannis if they stretch it). However, if we go with the book version of them where they are also seeking to regain their place in court, then I can see them offering whatever naval forces they have to bring Dany to Westeros in exchange for a marriage pack with Quentin or even Oberyn seeing how he is alive in this chain of events. Maybe they can even throw in hiring the Golden Company to help sweeten the deal.
4. Assuming all of these events occur, then once Dany crosses the narrow sea, the only kingdom she really has to conquer would the be Reach. One she takes highgarden (or in all likelihood the Tyrells would give it to her in exchange for some place at court and/or keeping their stations as wardens) all she would then have to do is cut off any supply chains and only reopen them in exchange for bent knees. Those who don't accept this offer gets visitations from the unsullied, Dothraki, and dragons.
4a. If this occurs, all the Greyjoys have to do, as stated in the video is demonstrate a lack of use for the Iron Islands to Danny or, they could do the Greyjoy equivalent to what the Dornish did during Aegon's conquest but in the Iron Islands. Make it impossible to justify the cost of reconquest
Love the animation parts, and
Very succinct but too many wins. I’m gonna need Euron to throw a bit more chaos into the fire; like the moment baylon agrees to ally, he sails to gets Danny, blows his horn and burns it all down… win win win 😅 like a true iron islander.
Tyrells could Marry Loras to Danny to secure an alliance? many westermen hate the iron born so id assume alot of the lords would turn to the invading danny as the better option. Dorne would ally with Danny as well defiantly a cool match up . I doubt the northern alliance would withstand the Targs
Nah ,they just become all kings ,why to give up the independence ?
If Loras marry Danerys , the Martells are going crazy and bring the scorpions bolts ,and the Kings Landing already have those
Loras dosent want to marry
If Stannis see Dragons flying over he is summoning a Shadow baby ,no matter the cost
If the Starcks are seing Dragons they enter panic mode and bring all the wargs în the North to bring the nuclear lizards down
One problem with your tyrel motivation discussion. The Tyrells will not be able to hold on to the reach without an outside force keeping them there. They have a bunch of vassals that have better claims to the rulership of the reach. They didn’t rule the reach before Aegon the conqueror. They need the iron throne and to maintain their position. So I think they would team up with the lannisters against stannis but I think they would drag their feet about pitting their men against the north and co. And Tywin would have nothing that could force them as he would be completely reliant on them.
Thats a great point, I suppose that helps Balon and Rob though as it might cause internal power struggles that The Tyrells are going to have to expend themselves to contain! Great points though Bleach mon!thanks for watching! Liam
Actually, the Tyrells are currently perhaps in the strongest position they ever had, having close alliances with the Hightowers and Redwynes, the two other most powerful houses in the Reach. However, should a coalition of less powerful, but still significant houses ally against them, like the Florents, Tarlys, Merryweathers, Peakes, and most of all the Rowans, they might still lose.
I know Englana was a island power and conquest the world
But greyjey had no chance
If Westeros completly shatters into 7 independant kingdoms and establishes peace, Dany might view this as a sign that she should move on, as the Targeryens did when Valerya fractured and she might establish her new empire in Essos, she has all the Dothraki, she has conquered and subjugated Mereen and all other slaver cities, she was already on her way to establishing a new empire that could prosper and keep on growing in Essos.
She might lay claim to Dragon stone, but not more, i guess.
no she wouldn't. she would conquer them all regardless.
where is the other guy
Writing & Voicing the next ones 😂 - Thom
@@TheFandomeClips Thom as in Thom Merrilin from weal of time?
Brann to Shareen is the best match offer. That way Stannis’s grandchildren still get the crown. It’s not perfect but it’s leagues better than Edmire.
Good luck having baby’s with Bran…
@@TheFandomeClips i seem to have overlooked something in my haste.
I could see Dany returning and getting the full support of Dorne, since Doran was already planning to support her. She might get the support of the Reach if she marries Loras or one of the other Tyrell sons in the books, since they might view the dragons and Dorne's support as a one-way ticket to power if they hop on early and have a Tyrell marry her.
Even though Stannis really doesn't want to forgive Robb's rebellion, he might make peace if he becomes aware of the white walker threat, though he would do so only to allow Robb to head north to fight them, Stannis would be too busy with the south to send much help himself.
Either way, whether Stannis made peace or not, Dany would overrun him quickly with her armies and dragons, though Stannis's magic might be an obstacle in that scenario, maybe taking down a dragon or something.
If the Vale hadn't committed their forces to any side, they likely would commit to neutrality as soon as Dany shows up, and then swear fealty to Dany after she defeats Stannis or when she potentially continues north into the Riverlands. The Reach forces could push the Ironborn out of the Westerlands, but they wouldn't be able to stop their coasts from being raided. If Robb stays in the south, he might be able to fight scattered Dornish and Reachmen armies, but he wouldn't be able to fight dragons.
There might be some strategy where Robb and Balon can tag team, hitting and running, wherever the dragons are not, distracting and pulling them to one place while attacking another, but considering how quickly the dragons can move and how slow normal communication can be in relation, they would be walking a very thin line, with every misstep costing thousands of men and potentially dozens of ships. Any strategy would fail though when the North gets invaded by white walkers and Robb is forced for leave or potentially beg for help.
An alliance with Dorne it means marriage eith a Martell , so no space left for the Tyrells
But with the Lannisters death and no more Iron Throne ,Doran dosent need Dany , so no alliance with them either , they actualy send the sand snakes to eliminate her as threat to their independence
had theon just taken bran and rikon and fled winterfell, in and out in an hour. he could have sent them back to his father, giving the leverage with the starks and lanisters, being in possetion of 2 stark sons.
What levreage to the Lannisters Rickon and Bran have ?
And if they help to beat Robb , do you think Roose will bent the knee?
@flavius5722 after Rob is killed, tywin would both need bran and rickon dead. So the greyjoys can ask for something in exchange for killing them.
Maybe for their independence be recognised or half the North?
@@johnmitchell4043 For Robb to be death, you need the Boltons , so you cant negociate any land în the North
Independence of the Iron islands ??
Baelon had never wanted the independence , he is a loyal dog of the Iron Throne
Why would someone who want independence will waste his little resources in attacking the only other side that want independence until they both had reach a point when they have no power to defend themself from the Throne that they want independence from ?
If Baelon had ever wanted independence he could at least stay neutral and letting the others fight so they left him alone
No my friend Baelon ActionScript show that he want to crush any chanche of the ironborn to independence
@@johnmitchell4043 For Robb to die you need the Boltons, so no North land given
And what stop Tywin from invading the Iron Islands and kill all of them
Baelon has wasted his resources fighting the only othe faction that want independence
@@flavius5722 well tywin would need those two stark boys dead so he'd have to hear the greyjoys out. as long as rob hier is alive the war continues.
In thos scenario i think the daughter of cersei would survive cause shes not cersei, shes young and given a few years to grow up could be marriage eligibile
Nice ,but I think you overcomplicated the story a bit :
1) If the Greyjoys attack the Westerlands , Robb dosen' t have much of a reason to go there and meet Jeyne so he will marry Roslin , who is better
2) With that out of the way he can concentrate all his forces in a decisive battle agains Tywin and Kevan
We know Tywin has 20.000 men vs Robb' s 32.000
Robb has won battles eith inferior numbers and he knows how to use the terrain in his favour ,his commanders have the experience of Robert's rebelion ,while the Tiwin ' s comanders do not
Speaking of the tyrells i think they could marry loras to dany. Like when dany lands on dragonstone or lands whereever in westeros, the tyrells would find out. So we have a dragon queen who is single and will require someone to continue her family line, send loras. Granted it might be weird terms of the alliance but still i could see olyenna going for it. And if she goes for it the tyrells go for it.
Maybe in the show , but in the books , Ollena dosen't rule the house , Mace cares about his opinion but he makes his own decisions and very good ones
@@flavius5722 yeah that's fair, the show kinda does make alot of people useless for no reason.
What if Bobby B was the one who went to the tower of joy and Lyanna managed to convince him that Jon was actually Robert’s son? Robert believes this mostly because he’s slept with so many woman while drunk he has no way to be sure one of them wasn’t actually Lyanna.
Of course Robert would probably be the only person to believe this, meaning the future king Jon Baratheon will have to deal with questions about his legitimacy.
At least he has black hair, and some people who want Targaryens on the throne likely wouldn't dislike the rumors.
That being said, Robert and Ned were in the Vale at the start of the war, and I am pretty sure it lasted longer than 9 months.
@@Michaelonyoutub does Robert strike you as the type of guy who would remember how long pregnancies last while the love of his life is dying in his arms and showing him their totally legitimate child? Also, does he strike you as the kind of guy that would let himself think about the possibility that it’s actually Rhegar’s child after he already showed the kid off to the realm.
In all seriousness none of that would realistically happen, but I thought it was just a funny and interesting what if.
you forgot that the Lannister gold mines ran dry years ago
If I remember right, that's only true in the show Canon.
@@brendanmetivier511 i wouldn’t know but it’s still pertinent
I think Stannis would bend the knee. If this coalition has taken the throne via conquest, he'd accept it. His gripe was the fact the kingdom was his by right of succession. Once the Baratheon/Lannisters no longer have the throne, he'd probably recognise the new regime and head back to Storm's End.
The purpose of the alliance is not to put Starks or Greyjoys on the Iron Throne ,but to split the westeros in six kingdoms ,watch the video
no he wouldn't.
stannis would insist on fighting Robb even if it was hopeless and he couldnt win
I have a question. When and how in this scenario did the Starks get Sansa back.
I think that's an oversight on Thoms part like I did with the redwyne fleet in the Tyrells vid so ill let him answer that mate 😂
Not gonna lie Theon was really going somewhere after taking Winterfell.
If the northern kingdoms weren't so dumb, prideful, and shortsighted, they could have easily overwhelmed the south most likely. The Lannisters didn't really have any strong allies early on, and yet a lot of the northern territories had ties with each other, even if some lords may have been uneasy about it. But if they let it slide, they would of had a blast raiding the south and taking it's gold and riches, and eventually the throne. Since most northern lords just wanted their own territory and kingdoms back anyways, they probably wouldn't even want the throne, and instead would have balanced out the kingdoms and broken up the 'empire' it pretty much became.
Of course, that's a far different story from what we could ever get, and would eventually dissolve to more wars most likely
Why Edmure and Shireen? Why not Bran or Rickon?
Great idea! I thought Edmure because it at least marries the middle ground between the North & South in a sense. - Thom
With all the realms united they could hire a faceless assasin to get rid of daenerys, without her her dragons wouldnt take the throne, and also the kalassar would, in a logical scenario, never have joined daenerys
What if Cersei opted to have Joffrey smuggled away and raised far away rather then passing him off as a baratheon?
They win because no one cares about the iron islands. You guys want to leave ok. But stop with the raiding or else. Its that easy.
😂 this is so true, I always feel like the Iron Islands are a what if of Great Britain if they had a brain dead moron in charge during colonialism.
Thanks for watching Cody! Liam
If Tyrells alley with Robb in the scenario, does that mean Robb x Margaery happens? Or at least a marriage between Robb and Margery?
Can Balon really win the throne when he isn't even strong enough to win a decent hairline?
Definitely not the iron throne, but his independence goal wasn't too far fetched if he'd gone about it like a normal person with average intelligence instead of his own special brand of moronicness 😂 Thanks for watching TehTJ! Liam
The Iron Islands as an ally for Robb and the North would make things easier for Robb but the victory would still be his in the end because Balon simply can't take back his crown without a powerful ally like Robb. Meanwhile Robb had a real chance to gain the North's independence had he simply made better choices in a few key areas.
I actually think theres a way the iron isles could have won without siding with robb: simply invest more into the war with the north.
When theon took winterfell he had 20 men. By the time the iron isles lost moat cailin, their garrision of moat cailin consisted of 60 men. If they simply committed to the war they could have easily dominated the north.
Give theon at least 500 men if not several thousand. Same for victarion. If theon actually had a decent garrison the north couldn't possibly get him out, and its possible he'd be able to keep a better hold of bran and rickon. Even if they lose bran and rickon, they still hold the centre of the north and their capital which is a huge blow. Also if theon had a decent garrison, ramsay couldnt capture him and use him to retake moat cailin. Even if ramsay somehow captures him, a bigger garrison at moat cailin might be significantly less inclined to surrender.
Once stannis arrives send more men to deepwood motte so that asha doesn't get destroyed and give stannis a propaganda victory.
With bran and rickon hostage, robb dealt with by the freys, winterfell in ironborn control, moat cailin preventing roose from returning to the north with his army, and stannis either defeated or unable to rally the north, there's no real opposition to the ironborn taking the whole north.
Very bad plan :
Exept for Winterfel they didn't captured any important seat : White Harbor, Dreadfort, Last Hart the balk of the fighting is still before them ,and any gains they did is because odmf the surprise element
They dont have cavalry
Having Rickon and Bran will not matter when Bolton will become Warren with his army intact and all the northen lords united agains a common treat or because they have relative as hostages ( at least 10 .000 men )
How much do you think Moat Calin will resist ? At best a few months because his wals are în ruins
This with the condition that Baelon dosen't die , and all the leaders need to return to elect another captain/ king
The only chanche is that the Greyjoys stay neutral until after the war and Theon arrive as a liberator to unite the lords against the Boltons , but still is a little chanche
they'll never be able to keeop the north forever. which is the point.
@flavius5722 one: the northern lords would much rather bran and rickon than roose which gives the greyjoys significant leverage.
Two: if moat cailin had more than 50 men it could have resisted for a very long time. Moat cailin has never been taken from the south, and the fact it is three castles makes it very difficult to attack because if you attack one castle you're susceptible to attack from the other. So if moat cailin had like 5000 men defending it, the north could never take it.
Anyway the war is a war of attrition and with the ironborn controlling the seas, and moat cailin and winterfell, and with the north essentially being leaderless due to bran and rickon being in greyjoy hands, roose stuck in the south and the red wedding having killed most of the important lords, I think they greyjoys could eventually win.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 maybe not but they could conquer it for balons lifetime and possibly theons too.
Not saying the Lannisters will not lose the war of five Kings against an alliance of that Iron Island, the North, and the Riverlands. It's I'm saying it won't be that easy. That would have to last for decades and not one year. The Westerlands are simply a stronger Kingdom than the North and the Islands.
Balon should have swallowed his pride and accepted Robb's offer. That was the ONLY CONCIEVABLE way he could've actually won the war.
Balon joining robb would lose them everything and is utterly pointless. first, they'll never be able to maintain independence for very long.
Robb's goal was just to get back the Stark hostages and revenge on joff. once he got that, he was gonna march home, and leave the throne to one of the Baratheon brothers. who won't allow half their kingdom to just split off for no reason.
Balon mentions in the books he flat out can't take the Westerlands. not that he shouldn't. he CANT.
the best move for the greyjoy s was to stay out of it, then bend the knee and join whoever is about to win. that way, they can position themselves as Dany's ally when she inevitably sails on over.
The Ironborn were only truly relevant when Westeros was rulled by weak single kingdoms. Once the kingdoms got stronger and consilated they basicly lost all relevance. The Ironborn can never keep any land they take.
Very true, at least not without allys. But with the backing of just one decent faction they can be a game changer of a force! Thanks for watching as always Debater! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips They definetly can't hold the Westerlands. Also the long night is definetly their problem, because an endless winter means they starve to death
Turns out “not sowing” isn’t a good for long term societal development.
@@wingedhussar8552Not that they can if they wanted to.
@@TheFandomeClipsQuellon Greyjoy be like.
Step 1 kill balon
Step 2 Marry yara to robb before anything happens in the riverlands
Step3 destroy lannisport
Step4 hope caster red wine doesn’t catch the greyjoys
pointless. since once dany comes over, she'll destroy them with ease.
Imagine this: Theon marries Margery Tyrell, then they take the both the Iron Fleet and the Redwyne Fleet to Slaver's Bay. They make a marriage offer to Daenerys by tempting her with all four things she most needs: naval power, food, a husband, & a wife. They become Targaryens in name, but it is the Greyjoy blood that lives on.
Why would Margery marry Theon?
Ollena is a Redwyne ,they hate the Ironborn
@@flavius5722 that's a very good point, but if we can imagine a world where Balon isn't stupid then we can imagine a world where some portion of the Greyjoys make peace with The Reach for the sake of mutual gain.
@@ChaosLierLen Yeah ,but the Tyrells are this local super power ,neutral for the begining of the war, anybody who have them has the bigger chances to win , no need for Dragons ( Danerys dragons are probably two weeks old at this poin anyway )
And this will still be Baelon doing a alliance, so two scenarios here in one
And the Greyjoys are not offering to much , they aren't very united themselves
@@flavius5722 the Greyjoys have possibly the most powerful fleet in Westeros. They can make the plan work with either (preferably) the Tyrells or (alternatively) the Martells, and saying such in negotiations with the Tyrells has a decent chance of getting the Tyrells to cooperate.
@@ChaosLierLen For the sake of the story , lets say they allied themself with the Tyrells, because the Martels are not doing anything either way
But what is the goal of this alliance ? Against who ? Who gain what ?
Balon would never stoop so low as to something like actually win.
😂 Incompetence is his secret weapon. I mean he did technically win the war of the 5 kings lol. Thanks for watching Jay! Liam
While an alliance with Robb was the smart move there’s no way Baylon would ally himself with the son of the guy who helped crush his rebellion. However the Greyjoys might have won if Theon was a little smarter. Theon’s capture of Winterfell was ingenious but trying to keep it with 20 men was idiotic. As his sister told Theon later he should have kidnapped Bran and Rickon, torched Winterfell, and Brought the Stark boys to the Iron Islands as hostages. Then Baylon would have forced Robb to negotiate with him. He could have forced Robb to recognize the iron islands independence and kept some of the northern land the Ironborn had captured. Not quite a complete victory but a good one.
This is a what if scenario,so Baelon said yes
Your plan is too complicated for Baelon 🤯
But by torching Winterfel just lead more to Robb's downfall ,and the Boltons or whoever come after him have no interes in Rickon or Bran's lifes
How can the Iron Islands win the War?
Not being idiots.
I legit never thought you'd give the Greyjoys this kind of treatment. They've been mocked for so long I just assumed they'd be kept as your personal punchline 😏
What is dead may never die! Nice to see you again Jeremy ! - Thom
Oh don't worry I'm sure we'll resuming the bashing sessions post haste, the Iron born have had their moment now 😂 thanks for watching as always matey, get over to our discord! We must have you lol 😆 Liam
What if Tywin rewarded Tyrion after the battle of the black water
Instead of demoting. Image Tywin giving Tyrion Castely Rock.
He did when he tought that Jaime is death , and Tyrion burst in a crazy sounds ,and talk bullshit, because Martin still neds Tyrion as a gate for his dick's jokes
The best part is that even if they “win” whoever eventually becomes the dominant power on Westeros proper will turn their attention to those annoying raiders. Robb’s not likely to keep the alliance once longships are sighted along the Stony Shore, after all. Balon’s attempts at glory were always doomed to destroy both him and the Ironmen.
We're honestly hoping that Balon just doesn't do any raids and if Theon Marries Sansa it might help strengthen the grip the Greyjoys have on the Westerlands by having the backing of the North. Hopefully if the Iron Islands need to do any raiding it'll be the reach or essos they go to. Then again Yara / Asha seemed willing to accept the deal of no raiding for a crown? - Thom
@@TheFandomeClips
“Can Balon be a good boy for literally five minutes?” should have been the real title of this video 😂
'Robb stood. "I will not grudge him that. If I'm king in the north, let him be King of the Iron Islands, if that's his desire. I'll give him a crown gladly, so long as helps us bring down the lannisters."' - Robb Stark, A Clash of Kings. I still do not understand why Balon was dumb.
That should have been Thoms actual step 1.
Step 1- Balon stops been a dumbass.
The end.
Thanks for watching Airwave Raider! Liam
I feel like the red wedding should not have happened.. not accepting robs offer was so stupid
Baylon has to go Yara can rule or even Theon pre sausage loss
The best ending for the Iron Islands is having Balon deposed and replaced by someone who doesn’t think raping and pillaging constitutes a culture.
Yea I think that is why it’s good that euron became king of iurn island. Remember euron is just like you, in that he does not respect the iurn island culture, so he can change their culture to be something more cultured that doesent involve that all that bad stuff’s u said! Euron might be able to lead the iurn island into a new golden age (or a iurn age if u will XD
Because Euron is a visonary or however it spelled he might be able to think of new idea’s that a bad unintellingent king like Balon would have never have thinked up, because Balon is in-cultured.
OH. Also let’s not forget that Euron is a famous pirate across the world, he has gone on seven voyages across the world, which surely has made him a more cultured man if I had to guess whom is more cultured Balon or Euron I would pronbally pick Euron because he is younger and more of a world-traveling-man
Opportunitist
Patronising
1. treat in a way that is apparently kind or helpful but that betrays a feeling of superiority.
Example- "she was determined not to be put down or patronized"
😂
But in seriousness, thanks for watching Anthony, hope you don't mind me poking some fun. 😂 Liam
Dagmer Cleftjaw Master-at-arms at Pyke > Rhaegar Targaryen
😮😮😮 Is this Tom ,I though he is just your imaginary friend 😂
Yes Flavius! He's real and im very glad he jumped on the chance to do this video 😂 now everyone can know he's not just a voice in my head 😂 I'm not mad I'M NOT MAD!!!!
Thanks for watching buddy!
its sad balon was too stupid to realize that while his son was captive he basically became what ned and rob were with jon arryn and thats simply because ned didnt treat him like a hostage and raised him beside his own boys "beside them but not one of them" shut up reek thats the best deal you could hope for in that situation he never understood the political tool theon was because hes too caught up in that old ways deep ones bs
the vale wouldnt join the war
Right !
Ok but if they do a f you move to casterly rock, Tywin would genocide the iron islands the way the Norman’s grnocided northumbria. The iron islands are not winning shit unless they get stupid lucky.
Tywin would have to get to the Iron Islands first and how would they do that? If the Greyjoys backed up with some northmen take Lannisport that's Tywins fleet ethier captured or burned down. Stannis has the Royal Fleet and the only other Fleet of any use (The Redwyne Fleet) belongs to Lord Paxtor Redwyne. Hes got no ships to get him to the Iron Islands in this scenario and he can't take the North because Rob keeps beating his ass silly in the field. Its actually Tywin who would need the boat load of luck in this circumstance. Crazy to think how much changes if Balon doesn't act like a dumbass 😂 thanks for watching LCCW! Liam
Tywin will be în the riverlands, crushed by Robb
They couldnt. Best case scenario they could get indelendance and treaties to bê left alone. Their army ia too weak.
GreyJoys are a joke. Take Castly Rock. And you have power and gold.
they can't take it. its literally the most invincible castle in the kingdoms
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 They can stave it , but not alone 🐺🐺🐙
This isn't House Greyjoy winning the Game of Thrones, this is them being a lackey to another winner. It is by and far the best scenario for them, but it still sees their historic enemies and raiding grounds in the Riverlands being powerful and protected, and all of House Greyjoy's foreign policy is dictated to them by a regional hegemon. In this scenario, they still lost. They lost in a way that benefited them, probably even benefited them more than winning would have, "you win or you die" need not apply. The tragedy of the Iron Islands, really; they aren't looking to make things better for themselves, just to nurse historic grievances and soothe their wounded national pride, and playing second fiddle to Robb doesn't give them that.
Also, think you underestimate the appeal of Euron's boisterous claims. The same hearts and minds that were swayed by the idea of bringing back the Old Ways and reaving the whole world would still be cheering on the bounty being shown at the kingsmoot and the showman's charismatic promises over Asha's walnuts or Theon's soft greenland ways.
Bullshit !
You dont seem to understand even what a lackey means
Second in this alternative scenario ,the ironborn will piss on Euron and his empty words , he will be a homless who plays with a horn ,while Theon give them the independence and the Westerlands with Robb doing the heavy lifting
You say this isnt their victory but you cant tell what the victory is in you mind