Worst Commanders in Westeros | Game of Thrones
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- Is Jon Snow the Worst Commander in Game of Thrones? Let's find out as we analyze some of the blunders he and others have made during the heat of battle and what makes them some of the worse commanders to set foot on Westeros and what exactly they did wrong.
Was Robb Stark a Better Commander than Jon Snow?
Check out this videos twin ! - • Top 5 Best Commanders ...
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Contents
00:00 Intro
00:40 Not the Worst
08:13 The reason YOU clicked the Thumb 
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Was there anyone we missed? Were we to harsh?
he is technically not in the show (I am sure he is a named extra in Tywin's war council) but Stafford Lannister is an idiot. He is the guy on the opposite side of Robb's Wolf in the Night battle where Robb routed and wrecked a Lannister host not a day from Lannisport. His son Daven is average to above, and in this case that seems to be a significant improvement
Why didn’t you include how Jon handled the Battle of Wall in the Books, I think he did a far better job there
@@AliensInTheChaquetrix We did, we weren't dunking on him for the wall battle and said he did a great job there in both the books and show.
Tyrion was brave af. He first saw thousands of men getting killed and furied by his made fire. Then he took the charge of the rest of the lannister forces as a midget i remind you. And was the first one to charge at the enemy. That was furious from all the casualties they had taken. And how the bastard behind those walls satted on mannis's throne. The man single handedly out of pure rage was willing to peneterate the whole lannister army one by one. Till his own men had to drag him to safety. Tyrion never tried to take a glory of saving the city. And Tyrion was taken out by friendly attack by his own sister who hired one of the best sword men at the battle to slaughter a little person.... That is just overkill and he still failed.
Can we also count Theon? He swapped sides because of Daddy issues, charged into Winterfell with a couple of men and believe he could hold it far from the coast, trusted Ramsey. I think the apple doesn’t fall far tree.
But whoever kills that fucking hornblower will stand in bronze upon the shores of Pyke!
I think the plan was genius take winterfell with a few men, secure brandon rickon etc take them back the the iron islands. Theon literally could've won the war for the ironborn in the North.
It's because of his life experience. He was too Ironborn to be a Stark and too Stark to be truly Ironborn. The reason why he clung to Winterfell so much was because he wanted to be a Stark like Robb, not knowing that the Ironborn have no interest in ruling their conquests properly
You've got to admit he gave a great inspirational speech right before his ass got knocked out😅
@@thomasdevine5202 if his men didn't turn on him, it would have been great and inspirational. It was apparently... not.
When it comes to holding back from saving his brothers, Stannis has the advantage in that he hates all of his brothers' guts.
😂 Very true
Ramsey: I'm going to kill your brothers
Stannis: Not if I shadow baby them first 😂
Thanks for watching InvertedWing! Liam
Ramsay: Do what I want, or I'll kill your beloved brother!
Stannis: You take that back!
Ramsay: (mockingly) Take what back?
Stannis: The "beloved" part. I don't love him and he doesn't love me. It's a lie. Omit it.
Ramsay: Uh...
Davos: (facepalm)
@@InvertedWIng
Stannis: and you're still a bastard.
Ramsay: the king says otherwise.
Stannis: A bastard says otherwise about another bastard. I am the king. And you are a bastard.
Stannis: Archers
Soldier: Sir, at this distance we won’t be able to hit Ramsay
Stannis: They’re not aiming for Ramsay
I love the dumping on Balon. He is the worst and deserves more hate.
Our only regret is we couldn't roast him harder, I'm sure there's a channel out there up to that monumental task 😉
@@TheFandomeClips When it comes to Balon, I am sure Hodor would have been better.
@@TheFandomeClips
Dude essentially sold the most easy road to success and power for a petty vengeance on a feud his family started which left him with nothing .
All Greyjoys are allergic to Ws .
Balon's even worse when you consider, even IF he wanted to do his own thing, not tie himself down to alliances, ignore the geopolitics, attacking the Westerlands is still the best move. If the Starks win, they probably won't give a shit who sits on the Iron Throne and Balon gets to defend his new prizes from disorganized resistance. But if the Starks win, they won't tolerate the Ironborn in the North. And it doesn't matter WHO he attacks if the Lannisters win, Tywin damn well wants his grandkids ruling the SEVEN kingdoms. Like, he literally made the WORST move he could have.
I like how some people try to find some hidden brilliance in his plan, but the truth is he's nothing but an idiot, that's all there is to it 😂
In the books joffrey actually wasn’t scared one bit and fully unaware of the danger they were in, another sign of his possible psychopathy
I remember the scene of him firing the antler men from catapults 😂 hes definitely got a screw loose somewhere. Thanks for watching weeoth! Liam
I always considered edmure actually quite good. Nothing exceptional, but solid. The mistake he gets grilled for was Robb and the Bkackfishes fault for not informing him about their plan. And edmure did an impressive defence of the river lands. He held the crossing, he won at the mill, he defended River run from the siege. He was talented enough to pit both twin and the mountain on the back foot everytime they came to arms. I belive had he been told of the plan to allow them to cross he would have handled it pretty well
Hes not the worst by a long shot but I do think that mistake with Riverun could have been very costly, thank the seven for House Vance and Manderly holding firm along side him! Thanks for watching Oliver! Liam
@@TheFandomeClipsI kind of disagree on it being a mistake. Protecting his population is basically the purpose of a lord in a feudal system. In a more realistic setting than GOT this would get him some good popularity with the people he was keeping safe.
Oh militarily it made his job harder, but the only way to make it easier is by ignoring half the real job of his army and thinking defeating the enemy is the only thing.
@@neodigremo I agree. It's kind of admirable that he sees past short-term military advantages and takes care of the long-term stability of the realm and his subjects.
@@ari3903 more he is one of the few nobles actually doing his job instead of playing the game of thrones and treating his subjects like a resource he gets to spend. Which yes does aid in long term stability in the realm.
Honestly Westeros is overdue a good old fashioned peasants revolt that does more than kill Dragons. I mean in England we had several when the lords became tyrannical.
It's always so funny to me how much Ser Allister hated him. Just imagine his reaction had he learned about Jon's true parents and heritage.
😂 I still somehow think he would have found a reason to hate him. That was a friendship that was never meant to be 😂 thanks for watching Chryl! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips
Oh yeah, he hated Jon with a passion 😅
He'd be in for a surprise, much like everyone else... and then, yeah, back to hating him
John is the illegitimate son of Lyanna and Rhaegar. He could very well blame him harder for being the direct cause of the fall of the Targeryans (and yes Polygamy was no longer allowed so since Elia was not divorced he never legitimately married Lyanna whatever ceremony he had)
It's sad because book Jon is competent, cunning, and far more ruthless. The only thing that limits him is his bastard status.
Show Jon on the other hand is made into a dullard so Sansa among others can look better by comparison.
The show essentially gave him a debuff to intelligence.
Pretty much, that how segment is less "look how bad Jon is" and more look how much DND dropped the ball, just out your dam artilary on the walls not in front of them, its a simple ask 😂 thanks for watching George! Liam
I wouldn't say far more ruthless. The cruelest thing he does is still an attempt to save people. Also he has far more flaws than his just his bastard status.
@@fightingmedialounge519 he threatens Sam that he'll burn Gilly's baby if he doesn't take Mance's to Old Town and forces Gilly to hold her hand over a candle flame to drive the point home. He also takes 100 Wildling children as hostages and assures their parents what will happen should the prove disloyal. He takes the advice, "Kill the Boy" very seriously.
@@georgeprchal3924 except the former wad done in an attempt to save mances baby with the hopes that he can keep gillys baby safe as well( did you miss the part of my comment where I literally adressed this?) and the latter is a pretty standard military custom in this setting. Also show Jon takes kill the boy advice literally by killing olly after the latter betrays him. He's more ruthless than his show counterpart, but far more is an exaggeration.
The show did what pretty much all of Hollywood and television has been doing like crazy for the last 10 years: make every woman a Mary Sue and make all the men incompetent in an attempt to empower women in real life. Which is fucking stupid, if you think about it it's really just infantilization. It's a shame, because game of thrones had been the only show really showing how men and women really are without insulting either.
On Edmure, the show shit on him none stop and I just don't get it. Culminating in Sansa telling the poor guy to "Please sit" And 99% of the fan base thinks that's one of the greatest moments in the series. And I (usually alone) think "Why is it wrong for him to make a case to be king."
He's won battle and protected the innocent, doesn't mean he'd be the BEST king but he'd be an okay King. What makes BRAN a better king than Edmure? Literally nothing (Edmure even has a better story). WTF show!
Edmure is just a sweet guy in the books, I hate how they twist him into this ambitious idiot 🙄
i miss the experience of watching this show and feeling like i'm in the GoT universe
As do we my friend, as do we. This whole vid is less "look at these bad commanders" and more "look how little dnd understands medievial warfare" at least for Jon, poor guy did not deserve to make the cut on this end 😂 thank you so much for stopping by IA! Liam
Same... sad but true, it's a wild thing, looking back throughout time
I always thought that Robert spared Balon because he was hoping balon would start another Rebellion (so Robert can fight a war again)
Its certainly a valid theory 😂
That's true Brotherhood, right there.
The real reason is basically all of the Greyjoy’s were dead and no other house had rule the iron islands in centuries, it’s the same reason why he forgave all the high lords who took the crown side’s and let the keep all their lands and titles. It’s just a lot easier to keep the status quo if they bend the knee to him.
Of all the commanders we've seen in this show, the title of "worst", at least to me, has to go to Ramsay. Sure, in the one battle we saw him in he was winning until he got caught off-guard by unexpected reinforcements, but as far as I'm concerned, ordering a volley of arrows on your own forces, even if it's in-character for him, is just a bottom-tier military move in my eyes. I don't care how many men he has to spare, knowingly sacrificing your own to hurt the enemy is just plain bad leadership, no matter what way you slice it 😠
Realistically as well, those men and his commanders would have turned on him mid battle or routed and run away.
It was done historically believe it or not Jeremy my man, but only in extremely rare cases, 99 percent of the time your asking to get a knife in the back for such a tactic 😂
I would disagree, Ramsey is a decent commander, sure he's not a lead the ground army type he's more of the stealth ops type & his plan did defeat Stannis before they even arrived at Winterfell & should've defeated John if not for d&d giving John stupid amounts of plot armour.
@@amadhatter3280 that and Ramsay's own mistakes cultivating the situation in the first place.
He sacrificed his own heavy cavalry too, it wasn't just silly levies.
He sent his best troops his heavy cav and wasted them all
I can’t believe you only have 13k subscribers, that Jon and GreyWorm impression at 10:27 was hilarious.
Thanks Steve 😂 I think I got Greyworm close.....ish, Jon was just me doing an impression of one of my RL friends. Thanks for watching! Liam
for real
Poor Jon got hit with the big dumb-dumb stick like the rest of the cast the moment they ran out of books. I always figured he was a pretty good commander and gave the Battle of The Bastards the benefit of the doubt because hey-he was running with all he could scrounge up at the time, Sansa was being the textbook definition of unhelpful at the time with her advice and keeping the Knights of The Vale to herself (which even Sophie Turner admitted was because Sansa wanted the credit first and foremost), and his brother's life was on the line...
-and then Winterfell happened and turned the entire fanbase into armchair Pattons picking apart the defense's battle plan. RIP Smart Jon, he was taken from us too soon.
I mean you don't need to be an armchair general to pick apart some of those choices, the biggest two for me are the catapults and the cavalry. You can in some cases justify having the bulk infantry in front of the walls, long as you've got plenty of ditches dug, but what a waste of a great flanking unit and perfectly good artillery 😂
Yes.. you took my suggestion! Thank you for including Joffrey. That made my day :)
Your welcome Professor, no brainer really 😃
Surprised The Mountain wasnt brought up. Even the people that were like minded in his cruelty confessed that his way if commanding was pretty bad.
And unless im mistaken- his forces got thrashed quite a bit.
Hes bad but he seems to do some serious damage even when he gets knocked about, and I think that's all he's meant to do 😂 not sure who he'd replace on the list but a great suggestion Jaynguin 👍 Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClipsTyrion the reason for this is that tyrion can become a great commander as he is quite smart he just needs training and more experience he wouldn't be as great as rob or robert who are naturally gifted and trained since thier Childhood he still could have become a competent commander
is Jon Snow the worst commander?
not if Cersei has anything to say about it. depending how loosely you define your terms Cersei counts.
I'd say Cersei was more of a ruler than a commander, she never did any leadership in a military context, otherwise yeah I'd agree with you, Cersei is useless 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
If Tywin had let her be educated and trained as she wanted, like Jaime, he may not have lost his legacy so easily.
@@JC-gn7lq very true. I do think that she was a little too short sighted to be brilliant at it.
I feel like Balon didn’t even get the timing right because he attacked the North BEFORE making a deal with Tywin and he only reached out to Tywin after the Battle of the Blackwater was over and the Lannisters were in a much stronger position. Tywin even said, “Why do I have to give him anything, when he has done everything I wanted for Free.”
Very good point D2! Thanks for watching! Liam
At 18:53 the way he says “still he could’ve had so much more” is the best line delivery ever.
Why thank you good ser!
Tyrion did well preparing for the siege of King's Landing, you got that right. But the sorties were a classic blunder of trying to do too much--Stannis, for example, would have husbanded his garrison until the relieving army showed up. It appears Tyrion merely sent out the parties just for the sake of doing something.
Edmure should have never been in charge of a large force. There's not much more to say, he's a victim of the Peter Principle via high birth.
Lame Harry Strickland is a bureaucrat. He appears to have been an excellent quartermaster and knowing logistics is an important attribute for any commander...but he showed no aptitude in either practice or theory of warfare. The books imply that the only reason he's Captain of the Golden Company is to function as a prudent figurehead until (f)Aegon was ready assume control.
Jon's tenure as Lord Commander is actually quite fascinating. Too bad DnD thought it would be boring and neutered that whole arc.
Balon Greyjoy is perhaps the greatest military missmind of his generation. Only a true paragon of insipidity would wage total war with pinpricks against 85 percent of the Westeros. His second run at kingship is somehow even stupider--he saw an opportunity to seize some rocky shores and thought that was worth risking everything. Seriously what was his plan here? What did he think he could actually accomplish?
😂 many a ASOIAF fan has tried to figure that out warlord 😂 people try their best to come up with some complex explanation but its an occums razor situation, he's simply an idiot 😂 Thanks for watching as always warlord! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips My problem with his inclusion is that he did at least correctly identify the biggest weakness and do his best to defend it. The problem is that he was just outmanned and against Stannis, a much more experienced and skilled commander. . Yes, he overestimated how well the tricks would work, but that's because it's theory versus reality and experience.
If Tyrion sits and does nothing though, what's to stop Stannis from just breaking down the mud gates and taking the city?
I compare Jon Snow to George Washington in that they were bad commanders, but solid leaders in that they could get people to follow them, despite terrible odds. Meanwhile, their strategies and planning often failed against their enemies.
Washington had intended force the British into fighting block-by-block in order to take New York, but failed to adequately defend Harlem Heights from General Howe.
Jon faced similarly hopeless situations with the Battle of Castle Black, Hardhome and the Battle of the Bastards:
The Wall made Mance's forces a non-issue with exceptions to the Giants and Mammoths. A simple raid by Tormund and his freefolk on the southside of the Wall nearly crippled Castle Black.
Hardhome was an impossible situation where Jon's forces could only take delaying actions, buying time to allow as many freefolk to board the ships as possible before the beach was overwhelmed. Then, the reality of the situation set in with all of the casualties left at Hardhome rising up to join the Night King's army.
Jon's mistakes at the Battle of the Bastards were blatant with him abandoning his plan and nearly getting all of his men killed when encircled by Ramsay's Tower Shield infantry. The real-world comparison for this would have been the Battle of Cannae but reversed, with the enveloping forces having the initial numerical advantage.
Now, I feel Ramsay should have been on this list for his screwups at the Battle of the Bastards. Friendly-Fire losses from his archers cost him the battle. Had he simply maintained his volley of arrows to eliminate Jon Snow and adopted a defensive formation to counter Jon's smaller cavalry, the Battle of the Bastards would have been a Bolton victory, with the Knights of the Vale only arriving in time to see the flaying.
Jon wasn't in command at Castle Black.
The Battle of the Bastards was just Leroy Jenkins shenanigans and Sansa deliberately trying to kill off Jon and all those who supported him.
Bloody great comparison that Bloodraven! Never underestimate the power of charisma! Thanks for watching as always mate!
The Jon and Grey Worm reenacting was priceless 😂
Geoffrey does have some great ideas about having a well trained standing army loyal to the crown rather than the traditional levy system of the medieval era
Hard to believe he actually had some ideas in that head mixed in with all the sadism and cruelty 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Now I kinda wish they would have given him more moments like that rather than just 100% sadistic and annoying
@@TheFandomeClips You need a very strong tax system to make it work. The Romans had it, the modern world has it, but the Medieval kingdoms most definitely had it *not* .
Counterpoint to Edmure letting the peasants inside the castle, that is the most basic agreement of the feudal contract. If he didn't do that, his men, who are a force of conscripted peasants, would have drowned him in the river.
Give Tyrion credit. His planning saved Kings Landing...from Stannis...in the Battle of the Blackwater.
And he led from the front in actual battle.
The rest of the time he was more of a consiglieri, than a battle planner.
Erm we did give him credit Joe? We acknowledged both the good and bad aspects of his commanding skills.
@@TheFandomeClips Ok, but 4th worst is not much credit
Awesome! Couldn't agree more!
Jon is a shit military tactician. His greatest strength is as a leader in general: his ability to unite people and make them back his cause. If Stannis could borrow a bit of that quality, he would be unbeatable.
And THANK YOU for doing Edmure justice. If the show did anyone dirty, it was Edmure. Rob was an idiot for not telling him the plan (or just the gist of it), and just exopcting him to sit idle by in his castle while the Mountain slaughtered his people.
Aye Jon is like Tywin, but on the other end of the scale of morality, a great leader, but not a great military leader. I hated the glory seeking show depiction of Edmure so much, he's not the butt of a joke, he's just a sweet guy who wants to defend his people and he's not horrific at command, he's just unsuitable for ruthless decisions because of his compassion. Thanks for watching Maikenlsten! Liam
Balon Greyjoy: *Rebelled because he thought the seven kingdoms are too fractured*
Also Balon Greyjoy: *Attacked multiple kingdoms at once, giving them a common enemy*
😂 some people theorise that he was a secret genius, but I think its plain to see he was just an idiot lol
@@TheFandomeClips Quellon Greyjoy must've been rolling in his grave
You know all this is really convinced me is that you actually need to make a version of the how would the Greyjoys win video that isn't in April fool's joke
In the works buddy, though I can't give any details as Thom is taking the wheel on it, he's braver than me, its a bloody hard mode challenge 😂 thanks for watching fear the pig! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips valid can't wait for the actual video
that's a rough job and all it depends on who's objectives you go for.
If you just want petty revenge on Ned Stark (who is dead mind you) and independence for your realm (Baelon)
If you just want indepenance for the realm and to reave for riches (Vic)
If you want independance for your realm and to establish better ties to the mainland thus making your ability to garner resources easier (Asha)
If you want... whatever bloody nightmare Euron wants.
First you have to pin down which Greyjoy faction you are picking.
Side with the White Walkers and let them destroy everything on the mainland. Between the Iron Fleet and the head White Walker they killed two dragons so Danarys would have trouble with both.
The Mountain vs Sandoq the Shadow!
Also I bet Robert thanked Baelon cause he's like. "Gods that's the shit I need. I needed to beat the shit out of someone."
Haha I can just imagine Roberts face
"Your Grace we're being attacked, half your kingdom is on fire"
"Whose behind this attack?"
"Balon Greyjoy your grace, why? Do you wish to kill him yourself"
"No I need to know where to send the thank you gifts" 😂
Thanks for watching crazy Scotsmen! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips "Now then someone get me hammer, and the breastplate stretcher! I have a battle to win!"
The greyworm and John impression was hilarious
Thank you good sir! Thanks for watching! Liam
That impression of Jon and Greyworm were fucking great
Thanks Jake! Liam
Loved this one! Where would you say Roose Bolton belongs on the more average side of commanders? Or was he just outside of one of these lists?
We don't know how good he is my friend, the battles he commands, he was purposefully losing and spending other houses forces, so its hard to count that against him. He's a cold and intelligent pyschopath though and happy to spend lives so I'd wager hes probably actually quite decent! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Agreed he is pretty smart in how he chips down Robb’s loyal forces excluding his own men. I’d put him above the people on this list I think he’d just miss the best commanders in Westeros list.
Apparently the whole Greyjoy rebellion is just a probe of Westerosi power and he had a whole plan but we’ll never know
Sssssshhhhh unreal, others mustn't find out about the greyjoy master plan 🤫
lol, on the topic of “in defense of jon”, book jon has so far only commanded the defense of the wall I. Which he made excellent use of limited resources and held his troops in optimal positions where they could support eachother and held the love and loyalty of many among his men. Show Jon is literally not even close to the same person, like a genuine separate character that just happens to share the same name.
Very true hes 1:0 in the books and I honestly hope he stays that way. Or at the very least he puts his bloody catapults on the walls instead if in front of them 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips hey thanks for making it man, I love listening to your voice brother
i think jon is far better then hes ultimately portrayed in the show. The wall was a great feat, in the show at winterfell against ramsay he made a very smart and detailed battle plan as they discussed to win with their smaller numbers and pull ramsay into an all out attack like he did on stannis, only messing this plan up because of ramsays incredible use of mental warfare tactics. However the battle of winterfell i cant defend, it was just stupidity from the showrunners having no idea how medieval warfare works. However using the dragons to surround winterfell in a ring of fire was an amazing move and hunting the night king to destroy the entire army of the dead was also smart. just not enough back up plans
Oh for sure, Jons place is definitely more "let's crap on dnd some more" than anything else. Book Jon is 1:0 so far and he likely won't face Ramsey so as long as he does well at Winterfell (if he makes it to Winterfell) I will be very happy i was wrong about this placement :) thanks for watching! Liam
The only time you put Unsullied in FRONT of gates is if they're the 3000 who saved Qohor from the Dothraki Khalasar
That was a fantastic Greyworm impression!!!!
Thanks Jacob!
I'd say Tywin should be on the list. His only notable victory was against the Reynes and Tarbecks. He lost every battle he ever fought against Robb, a green boy as he called him. He lost the entire Lannister fleet to Victarion Greyjoy in the Greyjoy Rebellion and he completely sat out Robert's Rebellion. I never understood why he was so hyped up. His greatest accomplishment seems to be using the power of Casterly Rock and the rest of the Westerlands to fight 2 minor houses. The only other accomplishment I can think of is keeping the peace with The Mad King on the throne, but Jon Arryn oversaw years of peace as well.
Your Greyworm inpersonation is pretty good lmao
While it was mostly portrayed as comedic relief, Tyrion's diplomacy with the Hill Tribes was brilliant strategy on his part. He was able to unite tribes that did not like each other and use them to win at Green Fork. However, more importantly, he found a way to destabilize the Vale. One of the biggest obstacles with conquest is not just winning, but what happens after you win. Tyrion and Tywin both know that capturing the Vale is a massive waste of resources.
By giving the Hill Tribes steel, they end up creating a perpetual, de facto insurgency that will consume the Vale's resources. Since the Hill Tribes are their own separate entity the Lannisters aren't obligated to re-enforce them or be held responsible for their actions. Another bonus is since the Hill Tribes are too simple to form much of any strategy or diplomacy, they are never a threat but instead a thorn to an enemy.
This tactic also has real life implications. Often times countries can't deploy troops for financial or political reasons, so they instead provide support to insurgents that do the work for them.
Honestly Tyrion isn't that bad of a commander (Joffery helped him make the list in all honesty) , he's just not great, he really does have his moments like the hill tribes you mention and the wild fire, all brilliant ideas, he just doesn't seem to have much to fall back on when his tricks have done what they can do.
Thanks for watching my lord of wolf! Liam
They say it's better to be lucky than good. Jon Snow is the proof of that, especially on the show, he falls ass backwards into winning battles he should clearly lose by luck alone. The battle at the wall was his only success and it was just "lucky" the Wildlings didn't come in full force. An every battle after that was 100% he only survives by luck.
Absolutely, who needs strategy or tactics when your wearing the best armor around? 😂
Ironic that Baleon is the worst... technically he won the battle of the five kings
Crazy isn't it? 😂 stupidity is often punished in thrones 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
Top 5 are 5) R. Baratheon 4) R. Stark 3) Stannis 2) Tarly 1) Khal Drogo. Honorable mentions are Grey Worm Ned Stark, Tyrion Euron Greyjoy and Barristan Selmy
For the love of the seven gods Jon for the battle of winterfell you should have had the Dothraki and other Calvary units stationed a mile or two south of winterfell in the woods somewhere. Misandrea shows up to do that flaming sword trick for them, and then they go ride out around the horde of the undead there using the speed of your horses take down the edges of the horde. With the Dothraki riding around the edge of the horde, Jon and Danny could have seen them better from above and then used the dragons to burn a lot more of the horde down. Trying to have more of the air battle with the night king down around the castle area.
Whatever you do with them, don't send them into an enemy mass that has no morale to break or self preservation instincts lol 😂
I like how it's their morals that cause so many flaws in leading, excellent video and look forward to more down the road.
Thanks Kyle always great to see you in the comments. I never looked at it that way but your right, its definitely a case of code taking precident over efficiency, both for those who are too noble and those who are too ruthless. Thanks for watching as always mate! Liam
Funny that if those 5 (or 6 in this case) worst commanders were to work together (or fused into 1 commander) they would actually be a half way decent commander (not great of course but they'd be a problem for a lot of Factions to deal with), a forward thinking (Joffery), caring (Edmure), charismatic (John), trickery (Tyrion), opportunist (Balon) commander that's not afraid to fight dirty. Together they'd would a problem for most commanders (assuming we're only fusing the best parts of each of these 6 together), but sadly the ego's (aka Joffery & Balon) would never agree to work together.
Very good point Hatter! I love that about GRRMs work no character comes without rough to go with the smooth, it just for these guys they have a bad rough to smooth ratio 😂
Tyrion's wildfire techniques was a necessary condition in the successful defense of Kings Landing. Why was it insufficient? A lack of troops. The battle was won when reinforcements arrived. Standish was irrelevant in that battles.
Jon Snow: His military skill was found in his political skills. He made common cause with the Freefolk, with Dany (who brings dragons, the Unsullied, the Dothraki and dragon glass), the whole of the North after the Battle of the Bastards. Jon's leadership won the most important battle in living memory.
"War is politics by other means."
If Stannis had an ounce of Jon's political skill, the skill needed to build an army, he would have been more than an insignificant component of the back story which ended in the Battle against the Night King.
As a Greyjoy loyalist I absolutely agree. His romanticized version of the old ways are far long gone one the isolation didn't help either. Sure he wasn't the sharpest but I'd say bitterness and a sprinkle of madness made him do unwise decisions.
Adding to that is his inability to compromise. May it be Robb's offer of Casterly Rock or Tyrion's (obvious fake offer) of Myrcella being married to Theon, Balon wouldn't have agreed.
His death was far overdue.
Thank you Euron, very cool
Its the same reason that many generals got a shock in ww1, those stuck in the old ways got so many of their troops killed
Got to move with the times baley boy 😂
Thanks for watching! Liam
Considering his lack of expirience , lack of proper force and resources , extremely strong , smart and numerous enemy and people supposedly on his side fucking him over , Tyrion did an extraordinary good job during the Blackwater Bay .
Personally, I think show rob really didn’t know much about actual battle tactics, which is why he relied on gorilla warfare
He kept winning though without the last minute saves that his brother enjoyed. Whatever Rob was doing he was doing it well 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
Tyrion was brave af. He first saw thousands of men getting killed and furied by his made fire. Then he took the charge of the rest of the lannister forces as a midget i remind you. And was the first one to charge at the enemy. That was furious from all the casualties they had taken. And how the bastard behind those walls satted on mannis's throne. The man single handedly out of pure rage was willing to peneterate the whole lannister army one by one. Till his own men had to drag him to safety. Tyrion never tried to take a glory of saving the city. And Tyrion was taken out by friendly attack by his own sister who hired one of the best sword men at the battle to slaughter a little person.... That is just overkill and he still failed.
2:27 all I’d say is that the bit about sorties not being tried and true is complete nonsense lol. A lot of sieges and assaults were delayed because of strong sorties, especially like the one shown in the show where they destroy the ram. Defending a city/fortified position is more about delay and cost than pure stopping power. In both the show and the books Tyrion makes Stannis pay for every inch he takes to the point where even if Stannis had won black water he’d have lost a lot of his bravest/most capable men and a decent amount of his ‘NCO’ types (minor lords/knights peasants could rally behind) in his first battle. Turning what on paper should’ve been an easy win into a costly victory (borderline pyrrhic). I think it has more to do with a combination of the marshal strength of veteran stormlanders, high morale among Stannis’s troops, and Stannis himself that Tyrion’s performance seems so poor. Against someone like Tarly or Tywin I think Stannis would’ve had an easier time given their more “orthodox” command styles. The only other person I could see coming up with something like Tyrion did with the wildfire is Rob tbh
Tyrion needed to make a move. The wildfire was necessary otherwise stannis' force wouldve taken kings landing quickly. Also tyrions chain was praised as a brilliant move
What about Book Jon Snow
We don't know yet, he's a 16 year old boy so he doesn't have much experience or deeds in this regard and we only have his commanding of the wall to go on, Stannis should actually get TBOTB in the books so Jon won't mess up there and I'm sure George knows a bit more about battles than DnD so if Jon makes it to the long night he should at least be a little better if not perfect in comparison to the show. But as of now he's got a clean record at 1:0 😂 so he's doing well! thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClipsit's just the planning he had for coming winter and how he planned to use loans from the Iron Bank to buy food and supplies for the coming winter plus trying to build glass gardens and how to manned most Castles on the wall with freefolk under command of a officer from Nights Watch was pretty impressive for a 16 year old
I know Balon isn't as smart as what I'm about to tell, but hear me out:
Balon does hate the Starks and Stannis, and he is also disliked by Tywin because of what happened in Lannisport and his fleet, so, we need to look for an alternative that doesn't involve an alliance with any of them, gets our King of the Iron Islands his revenge against his enemies but also gets his so wanted independence paying the iron price. So, we start by dividing the most powerful fleet in Westeros, your fleet, into three:
First raid the North but DO NOT declare independence YET, and even if it doesn't seem to be logical at first attacking the North was his best shot in the long run and yes, I know the North doesn't have gold nor a lot of riches as the Westerlands, but there is something at where the North is far superior to all the others six kingdoms: Wood, as simple as it is, ships are made of wood, most of the Iron Islands doesn't have trees, but the North does, better yet, the North has Ironwood, which is basically the Valyrian steel of wood, as strong as iron but not as heavy, a fleet made of Ironwood may be almost impossible to destroy, so, raid the Wolfswood, take the ironwood trees, raid their shores a little, let your captains have their fun while the no one is home, then go back to improve and make more powerful ships asap, because they would be needed, also if Theon captures Winterfell as in cannon he could have just sent Bran and Rickon to Pyke has hostages or “wards” as a vengeance to Ned for taking Theon.
Second, do a blockade against Dragonstone, and keep Stannis locked there, after all, Stannis took a while to move out, so don't attack the castle, just keep him there with no escape and burn his fleet, once again, Balon takes his revenge, this time against Stannis for burning the Iron Fleet and beating Victarion.
By now, Balon already got his sweet revenge against his enemies, Stannis, and the Starks, but we are not done yet, he needs to become the King of the Iron Islands so…
Third, visit the Stormlands, and send someone to talk to Renly, he isn't Stannis, he isn't a Stark, and he isn't Tywin, he is just the perfect candidate to give you your independence, and, without the Redwyne fleet (since the Lannisters have Redwyne hostages making it impossible to them to join Renly and the Tyrells) the Greyjoys without questions become the biggest navy power in Westeros.
1/6
With Stannis trapped in Dragonstone there is no shadow baby, Robb keeps fighting Tywin and Renly can march on Kingslanding peacefully as he planned, or can launch an assault on the capital, with Renly leading the attack with the backup of the Stormlands, Randyll Tarly leading the Reach or covering the back in case of a surprise attack from Tywin and Balon commanding the fleet the city would fall, even with Tyrion's little trick, but here is the thing, Balon knows how to raid, small attacks with little soldiers, which would make Tyrion's wildfire trap even more useless.
So all Lannisters are dead (Cersei and Tommen), captured (Lancel and Tyrek) or sent to the wall (Joffrey and maybe Tyrion), Renly becomes King, Margaery is Queen, Sansa is freed only to be given to the Tyrells to marry her with Willas since I don't think they would want to marry Willas to Asha.
And Balon by leading the naval attack pays the iron price to gain his independence from the current ruler of the Iron Throne (Joffrey), which Renly would accept, after all, Renly is a chill dude he doesn't lose anything if he lets the Iron Islands be independent, Balon just gave him a crown to all the Seven Kingdoms, some islands wouldn't make the difference, also Balon has Robb's heirs alive, therefore if Tywin were to kill Robb, then they have the “new” King Bran of the North and Trident to kneel before King Renly to rise as Lord Paramount of the North, so Balon after Robb's death would give him the North and Riverlands back, it's a good deal to be fair, and Renly can add a condition for the Ironborn to don't raid the seven kingdoms.
2/6
Since Robb and Tywin are now rebels to the crown, then Balon would have permission to burn and raid on their coasts or even better, get more land from them, perhaps to take back Bear Islands or the coastline of the Wolfswood and for the Westerlands, a lot of gold and salt wives.
Stannis is already trapped in Dragonstone, just help the Tyrell soldiers there to siege the castle and kill him, and that's all maybe Davos gets to smuggle Stannis, Selyse, and Shireen out of there, perhaps they escape to Essos to continue to gather his mercenary fleet and maybe even to negotiate with the Iron Bank, Mellissandre may get away using her magic after her Azhor Ahai failed she starts questioning her visions, perhaps she sees someone in The Wall and MAYBE Aeron meets with Pacthface, and they talk about their Drowned God (which may be terrifying and yet so funny to watch)
Robb is in an even worse spot, even if he doesn't die in the Red Wedding since the Greyjoys still have Moat Callin, he can't escape North and has to face the royalists (Stromlanders and Reachmen), he is also at war against the Lannisters, making him trapped by all sides and therefore executed as a traitor and Bran becomes the Lord of Winterfell since he is already in Renly and Balon clutches, or Roose still betrays Robb to become the new Lord Paramount of the North and gain the favor of the new King Renly.
Tywin could run back to Casterly Rock and hide, but he is too proud for that, so, he is likely to die on the battlefield and Kevan may be the new Lord of Casterly Rock, with his son Martyn as his heir, since Lancel is likely killed during the attack on Kingslandding.
3/6
Balon gets his vengeance against Ned by taking both Bran and Rickon as his wards and maybe turning them into a true Ironborn eliminating House Stark by now (because Roose may betray Robb and the Boltons become the Lord Paramount of the North and Sansa would be a Tyrell, and Jon is a bastard on the Night Watch) and also taking part of the North for himself, he burns Stannis' fleet and maybe if he asks, he could get his head paying the iron price for all of this and for his crown, since he fought against the current ruler of the Seven Kingdoms King Joffrey in the assault on Kingslandding, he gets it all.
Since there isn't a tortured Sansa, Jon may stay in the Night Watch after his resurrection because of the Night King and White Walkers or just simply go away, maybe join forces with Lord Manderly to get a Stark back to Winterfell and start recruiting more Lords to take down the Boltons and get back the Wolfswood from the Greyjoys, so the battle of the bastards may still happen, there are no knights of the Vale to the rescue, but also the Boltons don't have hostages from the other houses, the only thing holding the other lords back is that they didn't have another Stark, so, they rebel, they beat the Boltons and Balon can't hold his land in the North except for Bear Islands since the North doesn't have a navy.
Perhaps Balon orders his men to set the Wolfswood on fire after taking as much ironwood as they could and run away leaving nothing behind or just telling Job that Balon would kill both of his little brothers if he dares to fight over his domain.
4/6
If they declare Jon King in the North then Renly has to march North and fight them, possibly Balon will help him or not depending on if Jon lets Balon keep the Wolfswood (Maybe they agree to let them stay under Ironborn control if Bran and Rickon become the Lord of those áreas, Stark blood but with the Ironborn culture, Bran gets to control the Wolfswood and Rickon gets Bear Island, both of them being more Ironborn than from the North) if they din't then Jon could write to King Renly to make peace and also tell him about the Long Night, then it's up to Renly if he legitimates Jon Snow into Jon Stark making him Lord Paramount of the North.
Anyway, everything changes when Daenerys comes back, Balon can just stay away from the drama, letting Dany, with the Dothraki, Unsullied, and Dorne fight against Renly, the Stomrlands and Reach, the Lannisters and the Starks are too weak after the war against Renly, Kevan may want to team up with Daenerys but he wouldn't if Lancel is still at Kingslandding, and Renly would call the Riverlands and the North, but the Riverlands army was destroyed and Jon is too busy trying to prepare to defend against the White Walkers, and he may also try to get Dany's help with her dragons, but maybe Balon would join forces with the Dragon Queen to keep his independence. I'm not sure if he would want to marry Theon to her, nor Dany would accept, but anyway, that is another possibility.
Jon may convince Dany as in the show and get the evidence to show it to Renly, then Renly not being as dumb as Cersei may help them to fight alongside them, the united realm fights the Night King and wins, and after that, Dany would eventually defeat Renly and get the Iron Throne, maybe Balon gets to destroy the Redwyne fleet during the process with his superior ironwood made fleet, Dany sends Renly to the Night Watch and lets his son with Margaery be Lord Paramount of the Stormlands.
5/6
For some other characters, Catelyn is sent to Riverun since Roose becomes Lord Paramount of the North with Edmure, Lysa stays with Robin in the Vale, perhaps with Littlefinger still around but with no possibility of causing more chaos since he left Kingslanding and is in no good graces with Renly and the Tyrells, Varys helps Daenerys to get back, Olenna, Mace, Willas stays at Highgarden, probably Loras dies in the battlefield against Dany with Renly or saving him.
Victarion stays loyal to Balon, Aeron keeps preaching to the drowned god perhaps alongside Pacthface, Euron is still somewhere, possibly trying to marry Daenerys, maybe he comes back or not, Theon would learn how to be an Ironborn during his father's wars and get a Rock wive from the Iron Islands, Asha may do as she pleased, she would be the “Pirate Princess” and be loyal to his father and brother.
That is the legend of Balon of the House Greyjoy, Ninth of His Name, the Son of the Sea Wind, Captain of the Great Kraken, the Twice Crowned, the Widowmaker, the Brave, the Bold, King of Salt and Rock, King of the Iron Islands, Lord Reaper of Pyke, and a true Ironborn.
6/6
Off topic, but what do you think would have happened if instead of treating with the freys to attempt to get to kings landing quickly, he treated with the ironborn, using Theon-a moot piece I know- and his mother a descent negotiator to bring the iron islands into the fold.
Is the Asha-Robb betrothal feasible way to victory or just a quicker way to the red wedding?
I think it could have been a game changer Jack! With the iron born navy, Rob can do a Stannis and say screw you to land blockades and obstacles and sail straight to the coast of any region he wants to attack. The issue is if Rob forsakes his oath to Asha/Yara. It was a massive slap in the face to the Freys, it would be nothing short of a haymaker to Balon, at least The Freys were initially indifferent to etheir side, the alliance between Balon and Rob would be walking a tightrope for a very long time before the trust was solidified. The Freys wouldn't give a crap to be honest, they wanted to be left in peace until Rob wanted to use that bridge. Thanks for watching! Liam
I so love this channel for the Stannis respect. He always was my favorite and then when the show came out I wanted everyone to see how great he was. We all know how that turned out...
The Mannis will always be the One True King in our eyes Matt. Take heart for the night is dark and full of terrors, but the One True King will light the way! Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Appreciate that very mutch. Flashy clothes and being pompous do not make a great king. Having the strength to do whats right in the worst circumstances does.
5:28 actually the feudal system was superior prior to the invention of gunpowder. even the eastern roman empire adtoped a feudal system and it greatly improved their effectiveness at defending their empire. feudalism was not a backwards step from centralised militaries, it was a forward step. until gunpowder changed the game.
Food for thought: Supposed greatest minds of Westeros came up with strategy for defence of Winterfell from Night King xD I'm sure they don't get as dumb as series did.
I love the continuing topic, but Jon gets hit a bit hard don’t you think. it’s not fair to hold anything after season 5 against his character for obvious reasons and Book Snow is more politically savvy and plans his future moves a lot more. Plus would any other leader before him have crossed the wall to deal with the “wildlings” and Hardhome. As for Baylon😂 you are so spot on. He could have gotten Danny, partnered with the Dragon Queen and attacked the 7 kingdoms from port to port. He has all those ships and she needed ships 🤦
Haha yeah I prefer to see Jons spot more as a "let dump on Dnd some more" session 😂 in the books he's doing alright, he's 1:0 and he likely won't face Ramsey, let's just hope he makes it to winterfell so his book version can redeem his show counterpart, put the artillary on the walls and dig some ditches thats all I ask 😂 tks for watching as always Trey! Liam
Other than Joffrey, who D&D somehow managed to make slightly smarter, everyone was a better strategist in the books. Even Balon, who at least thought to send his best commander (Victarion) to hold Motte Cailin, and thought to give Theon a seasoned and loyal adjutant (Dagmar Cleftjaw). And eventually did seek allies (the Lannisters).
True, although I think I'd still have Balon in the idiot camp 😂 Jon should hopefully not make any of these fuck ups in the books at least, though I'm fearful we may never find out :( thanks for watching escapist! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips 😂 Fair, Balon earned his place in the idiot camp, with the first Greyjoy rebellion if nothing else. If he had made his move before Robert's rebellion was over, he might have had a chance of winning independence for the Iron Islands, or at least gained favorable terms from whoever won.
As for Jon, considering that he gave Stannis all his best moves in his Northern campaign (making common cause with Crowfood Umber, recruiting the mountain clans, and attacking Deepwood Motte instead of the Dreadfort) I think it's a safe bet that Jon will make some tactically sound decisions in any future battles he's involved in, in the books. And call me crazy but I'm actually fairly optimistic that we'll get TWOW at least. Not going to speculate on when though.
Thanks for the great content!
10:27 😂 best impressions
6:56 Ummmm… was it intentional to use footage from LotR? 😂
Geoffrey was right when he said there should be one army only that's loyal to the crown. I forgot who said the same thing later in the series but my boy G doesn't get any love.
The one time he actually had a worthwhile thought 😂 thanks for watching spidey! Liam
to be fair with harry, he works in the book because he is paired with the bold and the impatient jon con and aegon,they really messed a lot of stuff up by not including them
Yeah it sucks we didn't get those plot lines along with Dorne, but Dnd wanted to trade the Valerian steel for lightsabers :/ so much wasted potential it pains me to this day 😪 Thanks for watching! Liam
They literally just threw out so many plots that were unfolding in the last book, I couldn’t wait to see lady stone heart and was so mad she never made the screen
In the books Jon is 100% different. He was a pretty good commander and politician.
We know Tony, we were just using Jon as a way to dunk on DnD, in the books he's 1:0 for commanding a battle, hopefully his record stays clean! Thanks for watching! Liam
Edmure Tully > King Robb
Let it be known that Edmure Tully defeated Tywin Lannister in the field. So his people could have a Stone Mill to make food.
I still believe Moore was in the service of baelish. Mandon Moore is a Vale man suggested by Lysa. And at the same time, the person Tyrion appointed to Janos Slynt's position is assassinated by his own men. And Baelish knows a relief army is coming, he put it together. And Tyrion is already poking around a little too much in Petyr's business
Its definitely plausible!
11:32 this is so beautiful because it is true
All Jon would say is “there’s no time”.
😂 or "yerrr ma qweeeen" thanks for watching Nate! Liam
Mace tyrell? He sat thru civil war forever sieging storms end? I guess he lost less men than the other kingdoms that way
Feel like Jon could have sent a different rider to save his brother and the chances of survival would have been greater .
You're asking Edmure Tully not to defend his people? When pigs fly!
You weren't harsh enough on the battle of Winterfell. You called the Dothraki cavalry "shock troops" but what they really are is scouting/skirmishing cavalry due to their light(no) armor and agility. Shock cavalry would be fully armored knights with lances. So it's even worse to blindly charge light cavalry into a zombie army than to use knights.
Look Jacob i was trying to give them some leeway mate ok? 😂 its already too easy to dunk on the strategic and tactical decisions made in that battle and I like to I'm a nice guy 😂 your not wrong though, thanks for watching! Liam
Tyrion is, in reality , quite bad commander and politician.
Even the wildfire was cerseis idea.
I think he was good but definitely nowhere near as good as he thought he was. Show Tyrion was very goodie goodie but Book Tyrion seems to have a chip on his shoulder. Though in fairness I don't blame him 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
If you have a giant at your disposal and don't have him use a bow while the enemy is far outside of regular bow range, you are a failure.
Also give the guy a tree trunk club, that sheild wall ain't doing shit vs one swing 😂
I never understood why the giant wasn’t better outfitted and utilized, imagine a giant with any sort of armor and some giant sword and shield or like you said a bow.
I disagree with Tyrion he did the best with what he had. Just because he wouldn’t have won doesn’t mean he did a bad job. Tyrion probably hurt stannis so bad he would have been crippled even if Stannis had taken kings landing. The fact they lasted that long against a highly capable general is testament to his tactical ability. You put any other general in his place and they would have lost immediately after the walls were assaulted cause they lack tyrions strategic creativity. Who else would have thought to use wildfire other than Tyrion?
Dayne still wipes the floor with Bobby B. That slow hammer isn’t hitting shit on an agile target
How you can you speak so definitively when we’ve seen neither have explicit feats during their primes
Yeah this video isn't about that mate, but ill bite 😂 also don't take what I say as a personal attack, its just my reasoning for my arguments
The fact most people think a warhammer would be slow in the hands of someone built like Robert, or that Dayne has some sort of superhuman agility above that of a peak human demonstrates a huge lack of knowledge regarding medievial combat and also the limits of human physicality.
The hammer is slower and less agile than the sword, but its not slow, especially if the wielder is skilled in its use, it can also hit anywhere and do damage, a human body is a big target, finesse and aim isn't really required. The sword on the other hand has to find teeny tiny gaps to even contemplate damaging an armoured opponent and the precision required to do this with a thrust without getting up close and in hit range is surgeon esque and almost impossible to do from a distance if the opponent is actively hostile. With this considered the agility advantage of a sword is nearly all but nullified. Hitting first means jack shit if it doesn't do any damage.
Big also does not equal slow or lacking agility, its an absolute myth Hollywood sells you, the bigger guy is often stronger, but what most people who don't actually train to fight delude themselves into ignoring is that bigger in shape people can quite often be quicker too, especially regarding explosive speed, even agility is only really compromised when your incredibly overly bulky like the Mountain, which Robert wasn't, from the sounds of things Robert was built more like Jack Reacher than the actor who plays the mountain.
I'd advise people who think this to watch the clip of Connor Mcgregor fighting the actor who plays the Mountain and count how many times the "smaller more agile" guy gets behind the big guy or even gets anything resembling the upper hand, and thats with the big guy going out of his way to NOT hurt the little guy 😂 size matters, and size doesn't mean slow in the slightest.
Both Dayne and Bobby are covered in plate armour, it is next to impossible to fight an armoured fighter without catching a few shots from the other side, especially if your using a sword, its not a graceful rapier lunge getting a sword in an armor joint or gap, there's still mail and gambeson to get through, it requires dedicated effort and force, unless Dayne is lucky enough to get Dawn into the arm pit of Roberts hammer arm, he will catch a retaliatory bash to his head or body everytime he goes for a thrust.
It is so dumb taking a sword against a hammer if armour is involved, because you can't trade blows without coming off much worse.
Dayne fans can sulk all they like about that fighter video, but unless they can make an argument beyond "because GRRM said so" or "Dayne is too fast and agile for Robert" which is totally bollocks considering both are nothing more than peak human in physicality. I simply don't care 😂
The whole point of that video was "look at how badass these fighters are" let's celebrate them rather than "this fighter will beat everyone below them" because in a grounded universe thats just rubbish, noone could beat everyone because styles make fights, hammer beats sword in armoured combat, sword beats hammer in unarmoured combat, spear beats most things if unarmoured, Old Barristan is still a complete badass, but that doesn't mean young Robert shouldn't be acknowledged for the "peerless warrior" he was, and Bobby gets number 1 because he didn't die in battle because he had common sense to use an anti armour weapon in a realm where armor is common, instead of the Medievial equivalent of a back up side arm (which is what swords are) 😂
If we're counting books and show than jon does have smart suggestions givent to stannis when it comes to his campaign in the north book wise. I'd bumb him down to 3 and give the two spot to janos slynt who has all of joffreys problems, but even less of an excuse given his age and position.
Jon in the books is 1:0 so his records clean, though even with that because we're taking both versions TBOTB and TBOW far eclipse it. I really hope book jons record stays clean. Thanks for watching as always! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips at the same time janoses abysmal record in both is why I think make sense to take Jon's spot while jon gets moved down a number.
It’s not guaranteed that Geoffrey put the hit on Tyrion!
Tyrion, really? In the books it is more clear, but he single handed defended King's Landing from Stannis. From preparation through execution, while being in fact impeded by Cersei and Joffrey
Yes really 😂 his plan was meant to buy a few days, not half of one. He did really well with what he had, but he put way too much stock in his two tricks (3 if you count the chain in the books) and while he put up a fight he was losing the battle once the shock and awe tactics wore off and would have done so without the wild card Tyrells showing up with his Father. Its why he was 5, he wasn't horrific, but he wasn't good etheir. Thanks for watching Gilsao! Liam
Jofrey, Tiwin and Tyrion along side other Lannister are not great commanders that they not need to be they have agents destroyng their enemies for them , the biggest of their agents is the Mannis himself without him the Lannisters whould had been long gone
😂 dont you dare speak ill of the Mannis Flavius! Thanks for watching! Liam
Balon had a chance to make the Iron Islands one of the most powerful regions in westeros just by allying himself with robb, stannis, or tywin, he neglected to do it because, uhhh… it isn’t the Ironborn way LMAOO. Robb would have won with their support btw 😔. The Iron Islands would have gained absolutely nothing by becoming independent, but so much by choosing the winning side.
11:44 amazing
I’d say Aegon the Uncrowned was pretty stupid. A young, inexperienced commander with a young and smaller dragon challenges his older, battle hardened, uncle with Balerion. Doesn’t work on paper let alone on the field
😂 yeah thats not exactly a good idea even in theory, great pick!
Tywin: The scouts are wrong! there were only 2K golden company not 20!
Tywin only just about made the good list for us 😂 thanks for tuning in tawup! Liam
The worst is Ramsay Bolton. Hands down.
Firing on your own guys is a surefire way to lose, not only the battle...but control of your whole army...the part that's still alive anyway...and almost guarantee a mutiny, _if_ you make it out alive.
There is a historical precident that firing on your own men was done here and there, but you are right in 99 percent of situations you are asking for a backstab. Thanks for watching Joe! Liam
Edmure got utterly screwed in the show, the guy in the books was making a lot of really great calls from a leadership point of view.
Edmure would be a fantastic peacetime leader no doubt. He just lacks the ruthlessness to make tough calls, I think the Blackfish balances him out nicely. Thanks for watching Avatar! Liam
Renly died to a literal 1 day old child...
I mean we never got to see him do any commanding, he might have taken after his older brothers 😂
Said child was a demon hellspawn and is thus not comparable in capability to that of an actual child ye.
Hold the line...my brother's already dead!🥶🥶🥶
Come on we know that's what he'd say 😂 that or
Ramsey "I'm going to kill your brother"
Stannis "not if I shadow baby him first" 😂
Bealon managed to pass on his leadership skills to his brilliant son the mighty Theon the prince of Winterfell
Took winterfell with 8 men, not too shabby 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
Great video!
As soon as you mentioned Stannis, your bias became obvious. 😉
For the show only, I HATE Stannis and wouldn’t call him the best commander…since it’s hard to keep the troops’ morale up when you keep burning loyal men at the stake…and then allow a witch to burn your own pre-teen daughter as well.
I hear he’s different in the books. I’m only about 2/3 through A Clash of Kings, so at this point the books & show are very, very similar.
Oh hes much better in the books, still not a good guy but a character worthy of your respect. Less burny in the books with his men too 😂 he grows more as the story progresses especially after the black water! You'll have to let us know if and when your opinion of him changes Cara, he's not for everyone even in the books!
Stannis gets a lot of credit for Military Prowess, but is it really earned? We see nothing but a few basic tactics bookended by two failures. His claim to fame? Sitting stuck in Storm's End and almost starving until Robert ended the War. He wasn't repelling assaults, they were being starved out. Then we get his show downfall where he is defeated by a small raiding party setting fire to his supplies.
I mean he is also credited as the commander for the naval aspects of the Greyjoy rebellions. Now we shit on the iron born as a land force but as a naval power they are one of the most formidable in Westeros, so Stannis had to fight the hardest part of that war and he supposedly gave the Greyjoys a right good smashing. Kings landing actually shows how formidable Stannis is rather than diminishing his prowess. He's dealt 2 (in the show) and 3 (in the books) pretty major shock and awe tactics from Tyrion that would break the morale of most commanders and their army, yet he presses forward and had victory in the bag. Youve got to remember he was defeated by a wildcard faction joining the frey and overwhelming him with sheer numbers. Without the Tyrells the Lannisters were done for in KL.
Riding out a siege is also a dam good display of military prowess too. In a realistic setting like Thrones, the skill comes not in repelling assaults, but keeping your own men in line, sieges are often ended because the troops turn on the commander and surrender. Stannis was able to keep his men in line and their morale intact when they were eating nothing but rats, if that's not a good military leader I don't know what is.
In the show vs the Boltons though yeah your right and I won't even try to defend that BS 😂
Thanks for watching Justin! Liam
I play a lot of total war and the battles in the show used to make me so mad lol fckn siege weapons outside castle walls
Trion was da greatest strategist until season 7 lol
honestly balon exists to show how weak the iron born are before euron started using cheat codes
Davos could have been included for committing his archers. They could have hung back and provided a refuge for the rest of the army and stopped getting surrounded.
Definitely Cam! Hard to encircle angry with Tower shields an pikes if they keep getting peppered with arrows from behind! Thanks for watching! Liam
Jon did die, so his brain got starved of oxygen, only reason i can think of as to why he chosen to defend winterfell like that 😂
Thats probably the best explanation I read so far, thanks for watching Konkaman! Liam