How House Tyrell could have Won The Game Of Thrones?

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  • Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
  • The boys are back for this most anticipated video. How House Tyrell could have won the Game of Thrones.
    00:00 Intro
    00:47 Tyrell Win Conditions
    03:45 Alliance with Robb & House Stark
    05:07 Alliance with Stannis / Renly of House Baratheon ( the real ones)
    12:44 Dorne & Daenerys Targaryen
    18:52 Tommen, Cersei & House Lannister
    Continue the discussion with us on Discord :)
    / discord
    2nd Channel /Review Channel - / @thefandome
    And for more of Liams work check out his fantastic Audio Book the Shifterverse here - / @shifterverse
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Комментарии • 425

  • @TheFandomeClips
    @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +71

    THOM- I've put some notes in the script about the Redwyne fleet, they might be able to carry Dany
    LIAM- Thanks pal I'll make mention of it in the Dany section!
    THOM- Can't help but notice you forgot to insert my note about the Redwyne Fleet?
    LIAM- Don't worry it'll be fine mate, they're not mentioned in the show I doubt any one in the comments will bring it up
    THE COMMENTS SECTION- ...................
    THOM- 🤦‍♂️
    P.S- Thoms note was that while the Tyrells might be able to get The Redwynes to help them it isn't guaranteed by a long shot. The Lannisters are holding two of the Redwyne house hostage to stop them supporting Renly. If Stannis takes the capital at blackwater those hostages likely become his and The Redwynes are once again pinned in place and unable to help the Tyrells or worse the fleet gets turned against The Roses.

    • @varana1239
      @varana1239 4 месяца назад +1

      Make a video about how Daenerys Targaryen can win

    • @guisas123
      @guisas123 2 месяца назад

      Olenna was born a Redwyne and they're bannermen to the Tyrells. There's no way they wouldn't help without having more than 2 people killed because they're hostages lol

    • @neryskkiran1820
      @neryskkiran1820 22 дня назад

      Why did you alter the face of the actor who plays Margaery Tyrell's face in the thumbnail? Not close enough to the male-gaze fantasy-world of your minds? Boys, just keep tweaking the pictures of the real-life girls and women, and eventually you'll get your ideal blow-up doll!

  • @arthurbriand2175
    @arthurbriand2175 6 месяцев назад +1268

    Robb Stark with the political backup of Margaery as his wife would be unstoppable.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +188

      Possibly. If they could Convince him to stay South. Just not sure he has the appetite for it 😅 - Thom

    • @Argos-xb8ek
      @Argos-xb8ek 6 месяцев назад +83

      The North offers the Reach little. They are far away with sparse goods for trading

    • @carastone3473
      @carastone3473 6 месяцев назад +97

      Except Robb wasn’t fighting for the Iron Throne. He just wanted the North to remain independent and to get his sisters back.

    • @ContactsNfilters
      @ContactsNfilters 6 месяцев назад +65

      They would've made a cute couple too.

    • @nunyabiznes33
      @nunyabiznes33 6 месяцев назад +41

      The Tyrells get nothing out of it. Not only are the kingdoms far away from each other, Robb only claims the North and Riverlands. The Tyrells want the Iron Throne.

  • @Wrynwynn
    @Wrynwynn 6 месяцев назад +548

    I like that Cersei is the weakness to the Tyrells. They’re so used to clever and powerful women that they see Cersei as just a shrewd player using fear, poise, and bluster to get her way, when actually she’s a blood psychopath worse than Geoffrey. They ironically gave her *too* much credit because she was a woman, the very thing that Cersei always said she never received.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +83

      I never looked at it that way before. Thats a very neat analysis of the Tyrells thoughts regarding Cersei. It can do a similar level of damage over-estimating your opponent as it can underestimating!

    • @pinkrelic
      @pinkrelic 5 месяцев назад +13

      she’s not worse than joffrey at all. in the show, at least

    • @Wrynwynn
      @Wrynwynn 5 месяцев назад +14

      @@pinkrelic That’s fair. But by the end I’d say she’s def as bad.

    • @Dystopie173
      @Dystopie173 5 месяцев назад +17

      She only went to be their "weakness", when the show was already dead.
      The conclusion of the tyrell-lanister-sparrow plot in kingslanding made zero sense.

    • @wolfie_1436
      @wolfie_1436 3 месяца назад +2

      agree to disagree she did do some horrible things way worse then what joff did they both were bad dont get me wrong but he learned from the best his mother evil spiteful person she was i dont wanna spoil anything which is why i didnt give examples but i think she far trumps him @@pinkrelic

  • @jameshedrick4490
    @jameshedrick4490 6 месяцев назад +316

    I'm going to agree with the last option. If the Tyrells had killed off Cersei they could have made alliances with Danny and the North to ensure their power and survival. One unique thing about the Tyrells is they don't have to win outright or actually have their family's ass in the throne in order to "win" and have the power and position they want.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +46

      Exactly James, they did basically all the work and made the right moves to begin with. The W was theirs for the taking. I mean they killed Joffery I can't believe they didn't have the apple doesn't fall far from the tree mentality and have Cersei taken out once Tywin wasn't there to protect her

  • @GeneralGrievousCIS
    @GeneralGrievousCIS 6 месяцев назад +440

    15:56 actually correction... the Tyrells have a HUGE fleet. Olenna's maiden name is Redwyne, and the latter house is a vassal of the Tyrells. Redwyne fleet is stated (in the books) to be one of the big three fleets of Westeros, alongside the Greyjoy and Royal fleets. Stannis actually teamed up with the Redwyne fleet to smash the Greyjoys during Balon's rebellion. Presumably the Redwyne fleet could ferry some Unsullied.

    • @seldomsane5278
      @seldomsane5278 6 месяцев назад +12

      Well said, was going to mention this 👍

    • @shifterverse
      @shifterverse 6 месяцев назад +1

      Hey GG I searched high and low for your previous comment I was going to plagiar...... I mean borrow for this video, even with third party comment filtering software and couldn't find it on the Stannis, Greyjoy or Rob Stark video :( Regarding the Redwyne fleet your correct I went back and had a look at our script and Thom had shoved a note in about them. He did however say in the note it depends on how the siege of kings landing goes. The Lannisters hold a couple of Redwynes hostage and if Stannis wins the blackwater like he does in our Dany scenario, they likely become Stannis's hostages and so the Tyrells still might not be able to make use of the fleet. Thanks for stopping by GG, If you could direct me to your previous comment where you gave me a bunch of ideas I'd love to read it to see what I did and didn't remember 😂 Liam

    • @GeneralGrievousCIS
      @GeneralGrievousCIS 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@shifterverse Haha, hello again. It was in a reply under a comment by @Jeremy1860 suggesting a video like this on the Tyrells. Original comment has 70 likes. Basically I suggested that Margaery could've sat the Iron Throne herself with one little bit of luck or divine intervention at the end of Season 6, lol

    • @Salmon_Based
      @Salmon_Based 5 месяцев назад +6

      Alongside the Arbor, Hightower a banner house of Highgarden controlls Oldtown and yet another massive fleet

  • @taureansynner6993
    @taureansynner6993 6 месяцев назад +176

    I wanted the Tyrells to win, they were the best family.

    • @klemens3564
      @klemens3564 6 месяцев назад +8

      Frey family is the best. All hail king Walda

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +8

      @@klemens3564 Baratheon's rule!!! all hail the One True King! 🔥🔥🔥

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +12

      A lot of fans love the roses. While I'm a big Baratheon fan (Mainly the book version of Stannis) I can see the appeal. They are an awesome house and unlike many other factions you often applaud their moves instead of face palm................................Looking at you mr king in the north 🐺 .....................both of you! Thanks for watching! Liam

    • @tessdurberville711
      @tessdurberville711 3 месяца назад +1

      ​@@klemens3564
      Walda would be a Queen.

    • @TheStraightestWhitest
      @TheStraightestWhitest 3 месяца назад +12

      The thing about the Tyrells is that despite having the same ambitions as most everyone else, they aren't cruel about it. Margaery as Queen would've genuinely been good for the Realm. Is the kindness an act? Partially, yes. But she understands that having the love of the people is worth every bit as much as their fear, especially during peace which the Tyrells are great at creating. The Tyrells are a family whose strengths supplement their personalities. They want to forge peace, and are the best at sustaining it.

  • @joeykaz32
    @joeykaz32 6 месяцев назад +326

    I think Robb would have bent the knee to Stannis in exchange for Sansa. Eddard supported Stannis' claim to the throne and Robb would have honored that.

    • @ericmaria4551
      @ericmaria4551 5 месяцев назад +1

      true 👍🏽

    • @immystery3946
      @immystery3946 5 месяцев назад +25

      Not only that if you send them Ned's bones and offer to help reclaim the north I think you have a great shot of them bending the knee

    • @ZachAsaD
      @ZachAsaD 2 месяца назад +2

      Nahhhh rob didn’t seem to care about his sisters. He wouldn’t use the king slayer to bargain for their return so why would he bend the knee?

    • @tgfitzgerald
      @tgfitzgerald 2 месяца назад +4

      Renly should have taken Stannis's deal! If he had allied with Stannis they could have taken King's Landing, killed all the Lannisters, and rescued Sansa. Then they could have gone to Rob like, "Here you go Mate! We've avenged your father and brought home your sister along with Joffrey's head". I'm pretty sure Rob woulda bent the knee. The timeline of Danaerys arrival in Westeros wouldn't change, The white walker/wildling situation would have still been critical, but Stannis, Rob, and the Tyrells would have been the ones negotiating with Danaerys about how to handle the threat. All would have pledged their armies and fought instead of double crossing her like Cersei did. White walker defeated, then everybody woulda had to bend the knee to Danaerys cause DRAGONS. The End. 😂

    • @choryllis6646
      @choryllis6646 2 месяца назад +2

      Agreed. Give them Sansa, give them Ned's remains, offer for things to go back to the way they were before (no consequences for the northmen starting their rebellion, and generally being left alone by the south), and Robb definitely would have bent the knee.

  • @TheTank1900
    @TheTank1900 6 месяцев назад +125

    Worth noting that while Mace comes off as unremarkable in the books it’s heavily implied that his oafishness is an act. He may not be the Queen of Thorns, but he did learn from her, and intentionally plays up his stupidity to his advantage by causing others to underestimate him, and is capable of making some sound tactical decisions in his own right, such as his actions during Robert’s Rebellion.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +24

      True, I think he is genuinely a poor military commander that skirts by with wealth in both mediums, but as a politician he isn't nearly as inept as he presents himself (at least in the books).

    • @TheTank1900
      @TheTank1900 6 месяцев назад +15

      @@TheFandomeClips Honestly even as a military commander he doesn't seem that bad. Like sure he wasn't a great help to the Targaryens during Robert's Rebellion, but it's clear House Tyrell was hedging their bets there so we shouldn't expect do. I don't think he ever really shows off his military skills one way or the other so he's probably not a military genius but I doubt he's totally inept and he certainly has some good council in the matter.

    • @hresvelgr7193
      @hresvelgr7193 6 месяцев назад +20

      @@TheFandomeClips I'm not even sure he is a poor military commander in the books. He correctly predicts Robb Stark's future course of action repeatedly.

    • @nhancao4790
      @nhancao4790 6 месяцев назад +4

      ​@@TheTank1900while Mace might not be special in term of strategies, he also has access to an excellent strategist Randyl Tally

    • @georgeprchal3924
      @georgeprchal3924 6 месяцев назад

      And after speaking with her once, Tyrion wonders wether or not her husband rode off a cliff intentionally.

  • @jeremy1860
    @jeremy1860 6 месяцев назад +183

    Outside of the Starks, the Tyrells have always been my favourite Westerosi family. As such, this is a video I've been thoroughly looking forward to. Needless to say, you guys did a great job with it 😊

    • @shifterverse
      @shifterverse 6 месяцев назад +3

      Thanks Jeremy! This vid nearly broke me and Thom not going to lie 😂 we wanted to do it justice but also keep it at a consumable length but also keep all the options open 😂 should have seen the orginal script would have been 3 times longer than the Stannis vid 😂 thanks for watching as usual! Liam

    • @jeremy1860
      @jeremy1860 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@shifterverse No problem. Though I do admit, it is somewhat bittersweet. With the Tyrells off your to-do list, we don't really have any major Westerosi families left for you to do videos like this. Sure, there's Dany, but you already said how she could've won back in your Queen video. The remaining groups, Arryns, Tullys and so on, aren't really big enough players to have enough of a chance at winning the Game.
      Still, if this is indeed the last of these kinds of videos, at least it was a good one 😊

    • @shifterverse
      @shifterverse 6 месяцев назад +2

      @@jeremy1860 we're going to have a second more in depth pass at the Lannsiters too pal and also a serious crack at the Greyjoys (if George can at the very least give us winds, as only the book Greyjoys under Euron can actually do some damage) but your right after this its Dany, Dorne, Greyjoys and Lannisters 😭 we'll have to start looking to other franchises for these style vids or maybe HOTD will give us some westeros themed how coulds 😀

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +2

      Jeremy looks different without the Spyro the dragon avatar 👀😂 - Thom

    • @jeremy1860
      @jeremy1860 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@TheFandomeClips Yeah, I've been getting into online AI art generators lately. Decided to make myself a profile picture that was basically me if I was animated by Studio Ghibli 😅

  • @ElladanKenet
    @ElladanKenet 6 месяцев назад +85

    I dunno, being named Stannis' heir isn't all bad. After a decade of marriage he's had one kid, a girl with Greyscale, and doesn't look to be in a hurry of making any more kids. In many cultures, Renly would be the de facto heir, as a lot of folks prefer to raise a male heir over a female one, even if we're talking brothers/cousins/uncles over a daughter. Dornish law, where a daughter or sister could inherit, only applies in Dorne. So.... literally nothing to lose there.
    Two, Margaery marrying Renly still plays out. As stated earlier, if Stannis never has a son, or dies at some point, Renly becomes king. And if she marries Renly, that'd make her queen. Shireen would not inherit, and let's face it, she's likely to die anyway.
    Regarding Dany, the Tyrells DO have access to a fleet, via the Redwynns. The Redwynns are basically written out of the show, but they still exist, and they have the third biggest fleet in the kingdom (after the Greyjoys and Royal fleets).

  • @gamebawesome
    @gamebawesome 6 месяцев назад +109

    So early, the Greyjoys were conquering the world with their teleporting ships

    • @shifterverse
      @shifterverse 6 месяцев назад +8

      True but we turned off the cheat codes for this one 😂 got to give the other houses a chance, especially against a faction as overpowered as the grey joys! Thanks for watching! Liam

    • @georgeprchal3924
      @georgeprchal3924 6 месяцев назад +2

      It's a boom tube. Clearly Darkseid is involved.

    • @TheStraightestWhitest
      @TheStraightestWhitest 3 месяца назад

      @@georgeprchal3924 I still don't get why he didn't just send Steppenwolf. Steppenwolf nearly took out the entire Justice League and stalemated Doomsday. Surely he can take on a few little kingdoms.

  • @onesith4528
    @onesith4528 6 месяцев назад +41

    Its crazy that even for the Tyrells, Stannis and Renly burying the hatchet basically guarantees a Stag and Roasa victory.

  • @DrewBoivie
    @DrewBoivie 17 дней назад +5

    During the middle seasons of the show I actually predicted Tyrell would come out on top. Olenna and Margaery were masterful.
    If a certain someone hadn't done something outrageous and unprecedented they definitely could have.

  • @paragon1172000
    @paragon1172000 6 месяцев назад +66

    Your last scenario is the exact thing that needed to happen. Getting rid of Cersei is the winning move. Though I do think they may even be able to best Daeny if they don't kill Qyburn. They have the money to speed up production on the scorpions and Qyburn had his hand in Varys network of spies. There is no guarantee but it is possible. Only thing they then have worry about is the white walkers but I think if The North convinces Tommen which they should be able to then I think they can stop the White Walkers at the wall. It just depends on how long the war with Daeny takes.

    • @DatDarkOne
      @DatDarkOne 3 месяца назад +3

      Agreed. Yeeting Cersei early on would have been good, correction great for EVERYONE.

    • @Huhhh4308
      @Huhhh4308 Месяц назад +1

      Yeah but Dany wiped out the Scorpions with just drogon

    • @paragon1172000
      @paragon1172000 Месяц назад

      @@Huhhh4308 After she lost Rhaegal though. This won't be the same situation. She used the sun to her advantage to avoid the initial volley because she knew of them. This also won't be mad Daenerys hell bent on burning everyone. This will be Daeny still trying to not burn everything. There is no guarantee they will win. However there is a chance because this isn't Cersei who was too arrogant.

    • @rndmusrnm2763
      @rndmusrnm2763 День назад

      The scorpion would only defeat Dany if we're using D&D Season 8 show logic. In reality, dragon scales are wayy to thick to be punctured by bolts. They'd need to a once in a million shot to the eye (like Dorne once did) and then do it two more times to Viserys and Rhaegal. Otherwise, Qyburn's scorpion projectiles would be more like a nuisance to Daenarys.

  • @hresvelgr7193
    @hresvelgr7193 6 месяцев назад +27

    Something of note is in the books Mace may actually be a lot smarter then he seems. While he appears oafish he correctly predicted the course of action others, such as Robb Stark, would take multiple times when someone like Tyrion, who we are told and shown is very intelligent, gets wrong. I suspect the oafishness is at least partially an act, possibly so others underestimate him.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +6

      I definitely agree on the political front it may be a bit of an act, thats why we made sure to say he is at the very least competent in the books, show Mace on the other hand................ 😂

    • @hresvelgr7193
      @hresvelgr7193 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@TheFandomeClipsYeah show Mace is...
      well he is entertaining

  • @davidlewis5312
    @davidlewis5312 6 месяцев назад +52

    I think without the sixth book it's hard to do how Baelish might win...
    And I think he might anyway

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +12

      Imagine. 😂
      Im hoping we at least get book 6 and just a podcast of what happens from GRRM at this rate - Thom

    • @warlordofbritannia
      @warlordofbritannia 6 месяцев назад +2

      @@TheFandomeClips
      I honestly believe we’ll get Winds…though even Bloodraven doesn’t know what will ever come of the seventh

  • @LusiaEyre
    @LusiaEyre 6 месяцев назад +29

    The only issue with the last scenario is the fact that Dany cannot have children. Loras might be her King Consort, but there is no guarantee of a half-Targaryen-half-Tyrell heir. This was never officially dispelled in the show and stands as truth in the books so far. Unless they would count on Loras outliving Dany and ruling on his own (William and Mary of Orange situation) and then using that solo rule to pass on a Tyrell heir? Alternatively, Jon's claim might come into play. If Dany names him her her, then it would be in their interest to marry Margaery to him, to actually get the full power they want.

    • @carastone3473
      @carastone3473 6 месяцев назад +7

      A witch told Dany she couldn’t have kids. We don’t know for a fact that it’s true.

    • @LusiaEyre
      @LusiaEyre 6 месяцев назад +3

      @carastone3473 Well, at this point in time, there is no proof that the witch was lying. The show was planning on having Dany pregnant (at least there is a behind the scenes photo of Dany with a bump), but scrapped the idea in the end. So, in Show Canon, the witch was never disproven. Same in the books as of when we last see Dany. As this video assumes primarily show canon, this variable should have been mentioned. Unless Dany would keep it a secret for as long as possible and simply act surprised if no children came from her marriage? But, until proven otherwise, Dany would go on believing she was barren, so the matter of marriage unions and succession would have to be considered in this belief in mind.

    • @fightingmedialounge519
      @fightingmedialounge519 4 месяца назад

      They could simply pull a reverse cersei and rhaenyra.

  • @Aerie925
    @Aerie925 5 месяцев назад +8

    I mean, considering Robert took the throne by rebellion, the “rightful” King is anyone who can take a keep power 🤷🏽‍♀️

  • @user-uf3gw5hs3v
    @user-uf3gw5hs3v 6 месяцев назад +25

    A side note: Tyrells actually have the biggest fleet in Westeros, the Redwine fleet. They managed to assemble about 1200 ships in Dance, if I remember the numbers correctly. Not all of those were warships, but cogs would be even better for transport of a land army. So they totally can try to bring Daeneris and her armies back as quickly, as they can. Even better, they probably can also try to hire sellsales and hold on to some of their fleet at and to stave off Stannis and Ironborn raids.

    • @George-Hawthorne
      @George-Hawthorne 6 месяцев назад +1

      They did not have that kind of fleet during the Dance. That is the number of ships at their disposal at the beginning of the books,. More specifically 200 warships and 1,000 merchant vessels.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +4

      We've addressed this in our pinned comment. The Redwynes aren't a sure thing in the Dany scenario, by quite a wide margin. The Lannisters actually hold 2 of the Redwynes hostage at kings landing at the start of the war, which is why Paxter didn't declare for Renly or help the Tyrells until they'd allied with The Lannisters. If Stannis wins Blackwater, which he likely would without Tyrell interference, those hostages likely become his hostages. At best keeping Lord Paxter pinned down again, at worst turning that fleet on the Roses. I know Olena is a Redwyne herself, but I think lord Paxter would likely place more value on his sons than his aunt, especially when linage and continuation of the family line is quite important among nobles. Thanks for watching! Liam

    • @Thrawn23.
      @Thrawn23. 4 месяца назад

      ​@@George-Hawthornewell they did side with Aegon in but they didn't do much during the war cause they were fighting off the Grayjoys

  • @nunyabiznes33
    @nunyabiznes33 6 месяцев назад +14

    The Tyrells have a large fleet, courtesy of Olenna's Redwyne family. Oh and also, Alerie is from the MAIN Hightower line and that house alone have as many vassals as the great houses and can and will use their bank and maesters against anyone threatening the Tyrells.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад

      We've addressed that in our pinned comment, Thom did put a note in the script but i forgot to add it 😂 In the Dany scenario, The Redwynes are likely rendered impotent as the hostages the Lannisters had in kings landing to stop them supporting the Tyrells likely become hostages to Stannis. Its not a sure thing that the Redwynes would help by a longshot. Thanks for watching! Liam

  • @Inirectionlayer
    @Inirectionlayer 6 месяцев назад +13

    To be honest if Stannis beat the Lannisters, I think that Robb would bend the knee to him. The only reason Robb was declared king in the north was because Renly didn’t have a good claim and Stannis was too weak to be considered a valid option. Robb isn’t an idiot, and would surrender to an enemy he didn’t even want to fight if he knew he was going to lose.

    • @godemperorofmankind3.091
      @godemperorofmankind3.091 6 месяцев назад

      Robb would easily beat Stannis in a war.

    • @Inirectionlayer
      @Inirectionlayer 6 месяцев назад

      @@godemperorofmankind3.091 I agree, but in this situation stannis also has the tyrells, and that amount of men could easily dwarf robb’s, who has less than 20000.

    • @godemperorofmankind3.091
      @godemperorofmankind3.091 6 месяцев назад

      @@Inirectionlayer if stannis won, he wouldnt magically have the tyrells. theyd probably just chill out at home, like always, letting their rivals do all the real fighting.

    • @georgeprchal3924
      @georgeprchal3924 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@godemperorofmankind3.091how?

  • @Supreme_Rage
    @Supreme_Rage 6 месяцев назад +19

    You should do a scenario where Littlefinger takes the throne. Im interested to see if its even possible

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +4

      We've got it on the list! Thanks for watching! Liam

  • @007JackBourne
    @007JackBourne 6 месяцев назад +11

    Easy mistake to make, but stannis would already have had warning of the northern threats, even with a 1000 men under his command he marched north to protect the realms of man from the wildlings, imagine if he had the might of the 7 kingdoms behind him!

  • @user-yq6ct6mr1y
    @user-yq6ct6mr1y 6 месяцев назад +14

    Mace the Ace not acknowledged? Just as planned!

    • @hresvelgr7193
      @hresvelgr7193 6 месяцев назад

      Quite literally if you are talking the books, where it seems the Tyrells act like Mace is an oaf to make people underestimate him

  • @cameronjadewallace
    @cameronjadewallace Месяц назад +2

    That was the most drastic "push comes to shove" I've ever experienced... Lord, I never even considered that as a thing until I saw it, and now.... I can't find a better use for it. Damn. Well done.

  • @sharkdentures3247
    @sharkdentures3247 6 месяцев назад +26

    "But with Margaery warming his bed, I'm sure he'll find a way to cope with his loss."
    Oh, I'd say having Margaery warming one's bed could make ANY man "get over" just about ANYTHING!

  • @EshBBX
    @EshBBX 2 месяца назад +1

    Loving how deep these alternate theories go

  • @zoazede2098
    @zoazede2098 17 дней назад +1

    Let´s recognize it, Olena not even TRYING to kill Cersei was a total plot conveinence

  • @danielwilliamson6180
    @danielwilliamson6180 6 месяцев назад +18

    A very interesting theory about how House Tyrell could have won the Game of Thrones.

    • @m.williams4971
      @m.williams4971 6 месяцев назад

      They more:less already won(by their own criteria), until Cersei effec it up with the High Sparrow. Olenna should have had Cersei killed!

  • @garlantyrell8030
    @garlantyrell8030 6 месяцев назад +2

    Excellent! The video I’ve been waiting for!

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +1

      I hope this helps in your quest for the throne Ser! 😂 -Thom

  • @Hexapp
    @Hexapp 5 месяцев назад +6

    We demand "How Littlefinger could have Won The Game Of Thrones"

  • @LordWyatt
    @LordWyatt 16 дней назад +1

    Margaery: Either f*ck me or bend the knee to Stannis-
    Renly: Quick! Where’s Stannis?!

  • @breaddboy
    @breaddboy 6 месяцев назад +6

    instead of sitting back during the war of the 5 kings, they focused on capturing tywin and the mountain. (probably when rob was trying to draw him in) tyrells attack the lanistars and hand both over to the dornish, the bad blood would be forgiven. a bond between dorne, tyrells and starks backing danny with marriage to loras and margey to rob/willis sounds ideal in my mind.

    • @godemperorofmankind3.091
      @godemperorofmankind3.091 6 месяцев назад +1

      sitting back is the best move you can do. why needlessly waste your troops? though i would have sat back entirely out of the war. The Dany thing I would still do, but with an untouched fresh army.

    • @breaddboy
      @breaddboy 6 месяцев назад

      @@godemperorofmankind3.091
      I get what you mean but I don't think it's a waste to use your soldiers in a couple battles or maybe even only a siege of harrenhal when it's strengthening your position. Like it's said in ASOIAF
      "You do not need to win," Tyrion told him. "All you need to do is raise your banners, rally your supporters, and hold, until Daenerys arrives to join her strength to yours."
      I think sitting back makes you less flexible, less appealing to Dany.

  • @11bluekitkats
    @11bluekitkats 6 месяцев назад +5

    Another amazing video!Thank you guys for doing what you do!

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +1

      Thank you Mikey… 😬😂 - Thom

    • @11bluekitkats
      @11bluekitkats 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@TheFandomeClips you’re welcome Thom 😂.In all seriousness though I hope both of you keep killing it!

  • @D2attemp
    @D2attemp 6 месяцев назад +7

    15:55 did you guys kind of forgot about the Redwyne Fleet: One of the Three major fleets of Westeros and that Olenna was born a Redwyne?

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +7

      Look... in this world... fleets are forgotten about a lot okay.... 😂 - Thom

    • @nunyabiznes33
      @nunyabiznes33 6 месяцев назад +4

      They also kinda forgot the Hightowers. I don't think Lord Leyton would just let his grandkids just die without a fight

    • @D2attemp
      @D2attemp 6 месяцев назад

      @@TheFandomeClips haha understandable! This video was still fantastic as always!

  • @mistmanjones3555
    @mistmanjones3555 6 месяцев назад +7

    Great video as usual, in-depth and consistent with the characters behavior. You guys should do another with how the High Sparrow could’ve won! It will be difficult but very entertaining.

    • @johnroach9026
      @johnroach9026 5 месяцев назад

      In all honesty, the Sparrows had almost won as well - they had their claws in Tommen, and had effectively neutered the Tyrells with Lorras' induction into the Faith and Margaery being accused of perjury. They just underestimated Cersei. She should have been kept imprisoned in the sept until her trial, made to go on a walk of atonement, and then either killed or made to join the faith. With KL and the throne under their rule, expanding the Faith Militant to other parts of Westeros should be a rather trivial task - appoint a sparrow to Oldtown, and from those 2 religious centres, gradually replace the old septons and radicalize the septas and meisters. The only sticking point I see here is the North. Cat was really the only northerner with any connection to the Faith, the rest of the north being staunch believers in the Old Gods. The Boltons probably aren't interested in submitting to radical southerners who call flaying people alive 'immoral'. With time and blood, the North would probably eventually break, but with Dany and the Walkers coming, its time the faith doesn't have. Dany would probably have to accept the faith - for now. She needs to consolidate her rule before trying to tackle the faith again. Depending on how nuts Dany is at this point, she may just Maegor it and burn them all, an obvious lose condition. However, if she is still sane, she could tactfully decide to tolerate them and potentially try and deradicalize the faith in future. The walkers are also an issue, and I honestly doubt the faith would believe it. If the faith forces Dany to stay at home "you can't believe this superstitious heretical nonsense, your grace", everyone loses and humanity is doomed to an eternal night.
      Dany and the walkers require the faith to seriously change up their hyperagressive strategy in the beginning - since playing their hand too hard with either gets them burned, or zombified. Winning requires cautious play, which isn't consistent with how they're characterised. It requires retrospective knowledge to get the best outcome possible

    • @tessdurberville711
      @tessdurberville711 3 месяца назад +1

      I was convinced that The High Sparrow's plan was to get Cersei and Olenna out of the way, have Tommen have an "accident", eventually marry Margaery and become her consort, while puppeting her.

  • @remnantreacts9845
    @remnantreacts9845 6 месяцев назад +1

    Nice vid guys. Can't wait for the extended Lannister video or maybe the how littlefinger could have won vid?

  • @TheKing72.
    @TheKing72. 2 месяца назад +2

    Step 1 margery encourages joffery into becomeing in another mad king by encouraging his sadism,
    Step 2 the tyrels lead another rebellion under the gyze of saving margery
    Step 3 kill joffery and kill cercei
    Step 4 use margery’s popularity to get her a claim to the throne and for good measure marry her to stanis or someone like that
    Step 5 profit

  • @ElzariusUnity
    @ElzariusUnity 6 месяцев назад +5

    15:55 Wdym? Tyrells have the biggest fleet in Westeros

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +1

      Erh… Liam? This one’s for you. 😂 - Thom

    • @ElzariusUnity
      @ElzariusUnity 6 месяцев назад +2

      @@TheFandomeClips maybe not the biggest, but I'd bet on Redwyne every time vs Ironborn.

  • @LordBloodraven
    @LordBloodraven 6 месяцев назад +6

    The Tyrells were a necessary component to Daenerys's arrival to Westeros. Were the Tyrells to remain in a strong position with Renly, Stannis or Tommen, Dany would never get to Westeros. The logic is in Daenerys's progress in Season 6. The 100,000 Dothraki were a massive gain, but introduced a new liability: no single fleet could bring Daenerys's forces to Westeros. She needed the ships she seized from the Slavers, *PLUS* the ships from Yara Greyjoy, Dorne and the Tyrells.
    Were the Tyrells to remain in a position of influence with the Baratheons (or Tommen 'Lannister') Daenerys's arrival would be delayed long enough for the North to be brought to heel and the Ice Zombies to be dealt with. By that time, the Tyrells could depose Stannis (if they had marriage ties through Renly and Shireen) or Cersei (if they had marriage ties through Tommen). While they'd lack a competent commander to counter Daenerys's army, Daenerys would be facing a united Westeros that just survived the Long Night in her absence, leaving her to be seen as a foreign invader with a foreign army. She could easily seize King's Landing, but would face assassination threats at every turn.

    • @godemperorofmankind3.091
      @godemperorofmankind3.091 6 месяцев назад +3

      Dany bringing Dothraki and Unsullied was itself a bit of an unnecessary blunder. It alienated many potential allies in Westeros. allies she needs.

    • @GeneralGrievousCIS
      @GeneralGrievousCIS 6 месяцев назад +2

      Tbh I dont think Margaery would have to do much to get control the North is a Marg/Tommen scenario. Sansa was de-facto in charge up there as Lady of Winterfell, with the Vale armies more there for her than for Jon, and Sansa has a pre-existing, positive, relationship with Margaery. She trusted Margaery back in King's Landing and viewed her as a friend. In contrast, she immediately distrusted Daenerys.
      Asked to choose between Margaery and Daenerys, Sansa probably pushes the North into league with Margaery. If Littlefinger still has any influence, he probably agrees with that anyway since he's worked with the Tyrells before. Better the devil you know than the one you don't... and the one taking advice from old-rival Varys.

    • @nunyabiznes33
      @nunyabiznes33 6 месяцев назад +3

      The Tyrells would definitely ask Grandpa Hightower to something about the dragons and the Citadel have a tome hidden away just for such emergencies.

    • @georgeprchal3924
      @georgeprchal3924 6 месяцев назад

      Stannis is in the North, Prince Aegon holds Storm's End, the Iron Men are wrecking havoc upon the Reach.

    • @fightingmedialounge519
      @fightingmedialounge519 5 месяцев назад

      ​@GeneralGrievousCIS That trust is likely weakened by olenna framing her.

  • @ThePro-qn6wr
    @ThePro-qn6wr 6 месяцев назад +9

    Don't the Tyrells have the Redwyne fleet to help Danny cross?

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +1

      We've addressed this in our pinned comment Pro. Thom did put a note on the script file but I forgot to insert it into the actual text like a dumbass. Basically the Redwynes aren't a sure thing, by a longshot. The Lannisters hold 2 of the Redwynes hostage at kings landing which pins Lord Paxter in place and prevents him aiding the Tyrells in their support of Renly. If Stannis wins blackwater like he likely would in the Dany scenario those hostages have a high chance of becoming his, which at best keeps the Redwynes pinned, at worst turns the Redwyne fleet against The Roses. Thanks for watching! Liam

    • @ThePro-qn6wr
      @ThePro-qn6wr 6 месяцев назад

      @@TheFandomeClips Thanks for the added information, really appreciate it :)

  • @weeoth8380
    @weeoth8380 9 дней назад

    People always forget that the Riverlands allied themselves with the North and would have been part of their kingdom. Making their hypothetical independent kingdom huge in terms of land and rich in resources. The riverlands are a close contendant to the Reach in terms of fertility, its good land. Plus, if the Reach was parrt of that Kingdom, it would stretch from the wall to the Arbor all the way through Westeros, cutting off the crown from the Westerlands and its resources. It would be a pretty good play

  • @wiederganger1959
    @wiederganger1959 Месяц назад +1

    7:21 "when push comes to shove"
    Thas was pretty dark lol

  • @MS-fx7sv
    @MS-fx7sv 4 месяца назад +1

    When you said “push comes to shove” while Jaime pushes Bran 😂

  • @King_Steffon_II
    @King_Steffon_II 6 месяцев назад +4

    Bless you Queen Margaery ❤️

  • @williambartlett7483
    @williambartlett7483 6 месяцев назад +2

    Love the Tyrells definitely my favourite house

  • @jennydumenigo6562
    @jennydumenigo6562 5 месяцев назад +1

    At some point Rob would have come to the realization that for the north to remain free he needs to take the Iron throne. He's mother would also have helped him come to that conclusion.

  • @Courageous91
    @Courageous91 3 месяца назад

    I want to hear a video about all the ways the White Walkers could have gotten through the wall. Make it happen!

  • @SerasXHarkonnen
    @SerasXHarkonnen 6 месяцев назад +2

    One point, if Tommen bends the knee, they should make him being named the Lord of Storms End and the storm lands part of the deal, I mean, it makes sense, he would technically be considered the heir (assuming his bastard status is kept hush hush) and that way the political marriage with Margaery still has value. I don't know if Dany would go for it but if she would that would be swell.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +3

      Very neat idea Seras! Tommen is quite soft, I can't see him worrying Dany of he was offered that. Not sure Margery would be happy about it though, but then again at that point in the game, without dragons she'll have to take what she can get 😂

  • @kylecharles4333
    @kylecharles4333 2 месяца назад

    The stags and roses dealing with Robb I feel largely depends on who survives taking the capital as getting sansa and to be the one who swings the sword on the remaining lannister's could get them to bend the knee since their goals are mostly complete with an exception of being independent.

  • @alanmike6883
    @alanmike6883 6 месяцев назад +5

    Love it.
    Been waiting for it 😊
    Though i admit I do like book tyrells 😊
    Have you done a renly one?
    Or dorne?
    Or how about how Dany could've won at various points if tywin was Alive and the cannon if he was dead? 😊

    • @shifterverse
      @shifterverse 6 месяцев назад +1

      Thanks Alan! We've done Renly along with Stannis but we've not tackled Dany or Dorne yet. Though they are on the list! Thanks for watching! Liam

    • @alanmike6883
      @alanmike6883 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@shifterverse
      I'm silly. I forgot about renly 😂
      Thx though. The other Two should be interesting shouldn't they?
      Especially the dillema if tywin was or not to Face Dany plus dornes desire for revenge 😊

    • @shifterverse
      @shifterverse 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@alanmike6883 absolutely Dany is a tough one, she's basically got the "I Win" card when it comes to conquest, its trying to arrange her moves so she doesn't go mad and learns some humility in her journey 😂

    • @alanmike6883
      @alanmike6883 6 месяцев назад

      @@shifterverse
      True but as we learnt the dragon's weren't completely invulnerable.
      Plus there's Still debate whether Weir wood tree arrows could be used.
      If tywin was alive he'd probably come up with a strategy of sacrifice major settlements to take out the dragons 😁

  • @mappingshaman5280
    @mappingshaman5280 6 месяцев назад +3

    The white walkers could have used giants to break the gates of the wall just like mance almost did and with bran being south of the wall, the walls magic is basically useless.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +2

      I think the wall has some kind of seal on it that prevents white walkers crossing the threshold. But 100% they had a plan to get through that didn't involve dragons.

  • @laurinkaebelmann6373
    @laurinkaebelmann6373 6 месяцев назад +2

    I don’t see the Tyrells losing against Stannis in the Ally with the Targaryens scenario. It isn’t even a given that Stannis takes kings landing before Tywin arrives to crush him, meaning that Stannis would again have to retreat to Dragonstone with no army.
    And even if he wins, his army will be depleted and he still has Tywin and Robb to content with. I think the wild card here is Tywin. He has lost everything, maybe he just goes on a killing spree and tries to drag everything else with him or he simply returns to casterly rock depressed and without an Heir or a future for his house.
    Even in the later for Stannis better scenario there are still the starks to worry about and even if he can deal with them, which most likely means some form of truce solely dependent on Robb giving up his crown, then he may be in a position to recover and pressure his now defeated enemies and other neutral parties into giving him an army to contend with the reach. I don’t think he will rally a big army, because no one likes him.
    Then he still has to defeat Randall and the other Tyrell vassals, which can most likely stall him until Dany arrives. But most of this is just rolling dice to see how many houses of the reach remain at the Tyrell side and how many houses can be pressured by Stannis to give him more men.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +1

      The only issue is that Tywin wasn't arriving to do any crushing, it was the Tyrells that made that last minute save possible. Without the Tyrells helping them the Lannisters almost certainly didn't have the strength repel Stannis (not without opening themselves to a future crushing from Rob at least). Tywin was not an idiot and didn't like sharing power or owing favours, he would not have sought alliance with the Tyrells unless he absolutely NEEDED to.
      You are right though, the brilliance of GRRMs work is that every change has a butterfly effect and is a dice roll. Noone can say for certainly what would and would not happen, we just find it fun to speculate on. Thanks for watching! Liam

    • @laurinkaebelmann6373
      @laurinkaebelmann6373 6 месяцев назад +2

      @@TheFandomeClips the thing is after being repelled by Tully (forgot the name of Catlins brother), Tywin gets news from attack of Stannis at Kings Landing and rushes to meet it. He would have ridden there independent of the Tyrells involvement. Every other course would have resulted in his house being ruined with his grand children and two children dead. He had to try at least.
      The question is does he make it in time. In the show he will definitely make it, as the Tyrells don't speed up his arrival, but I think in the books he uses rafts to sail down the black water to get to kings landing and I don't remember if he or the Tyrells built them.
      Then the question would be if he could crush Stannis at Kings Landing with fewer men. He still had an army of some 15 thousand, but I think he only got his cavalry down there in time leaving him with only some two thousand or so.
      However Stannis was at the time in a really bad spot. His forces were split into two groups. One south of the black water, the other north. The northern one was already engaged in the city, which while breached hadn't fallen yet.
      And we all know that two thousand riders can easily break a superior foe if they attack him in the back, while he is unaware of them.
      So he would have most likely still won.
      Even had he arrived later. The red keep could maybe hold out for longer then the city proper leaving Stannis in a double siege, which is a better place then being still engaged with the main city and his army split in half, but at this point Tywin would most likely bring in his foot, which could turn the whole thing around again.
      Who would have won isn't important really. However the Victor would be reliant on the help of other houses to secure their throne and I am not sure that the lannister or stannis would have gotten that.

    • @fightingmedialounge519
      @fightingmedialounge519 4 месяца назад

      ​@@laurinkaebelmann6373 he first makes an alliance with the tyrells, so he didn't exactly rush there. It's hard to say if he would ridden there without the tyrells involvement considering he's willingly put Jamie's life in danger before by sitting out most of robberts rebellion.

  • @curtismatsune3147
    @curtismatsune3147 18 дней назад +1

    All I know is that if Tywin had just put Cersei in her place and capitalized fully on the prodigious political and strategic skills Tyrion brought to the table the Lannisters would have won.

  • @JamesCourse66
    @JamesCourse66 6 месяцев назад +3

    This was very interesting. Now, I’ll have to disagree with the options chosen though. Remember that wars are won in multiple ways, or a combination: army strength (numbers), rations, cunning, gold, and love OR fear of the people. The Tyrell’s all of these. Because of how they are described in the books, it is HEAVILY implied that the Bravoosi are very against another Valyrian empire. The House of Black and White sent assassins to kill the masters and if we deduce hints it was they who murdered the Valyrian magicians who held the fires back, causing the Doom of Valyria. Why do I say this? They would assassinate her. Daenerys is not actually a very cunning person, she just relies on military and her dragons. A person wearing the face of a trusted friend would kill her likely even before she arrives in Westeros given how much Renly agreed with this plan.
    So Daenerys would not be a factor in their endgame. King’s Landing would still be standing.

  • @silver057
    @silver057 6 месяцев назад +2

    15:58 What do you mean they have no big fleet?! One of their vassals, the Redwynes (as in the family of Olenna Redwyne), literally have the biggest fleet in all of Westeros.

    • @3esin
      @3esin 6 месяцев назад +2

      In the books the twin heirs of house redwyn are held hostage in the Red Keep. The Redwyns were in a deadlock. Wich was only resolved after house Tyrell and Lannister allied with each other.
      Afterwards it gets complicated but boils down to Cercei fucks things up.

    • @silver057
      @silver057 6 месяцев назад

      @@3esin Yeah, I forgot about that part. My bad.

  • @warlordofbritannia
    @warlordofbritannia 6 месяцев назад +2

    The wild card in this scenario is the North-returning Sansa and providing justice for Ned would probably be enough to acquiesce in the Baratheon Bros pact. But when Dany shows up and the Tyrells swap sides? Westeros suffers through the worst internal conflict since the Dance; Highgarden, Dorne, and whoever controls the Westerlands (presumably a lesser Lannister like Lancel or Devan are appointed after Tywin’s line is liquidated; unfortunately I can’t see Kevan surviving such a purge) with Dany, while the North, the Riverlands, and of course the Stormlands remain loyal to the Crowned Stag.
    And then the Walkers show up. Gg, Tyrells. You won, but at what cost?

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +1

      Howdy as always Warlord! Thats the thing, Sansa is a bit of a valuable game piece. I think Rob and Cat would definitely be open tot rejoining the fold upon her return. I'm not sure how the other Northern lords like the Greatjon would feel about giving up their new found independence though! Thanks for tuning in as usual my friend! Liam

    • @wolfsbanealphas617
      @wolfsbanealphas617 6 месяцев назад

      @@TheFandomeClipsRobb probably will kill a couple of his major lords like Karstark and internal infighting begins plus his whole marrying a foreigner instead who he was promised too shows a lack of keeping his word

  • @dakklay3245
    @dakklay3245 2 месяца назад

    I have to agree with your analysis of the tyrells not having a strong fleet, if I remember correctly it's tyrells have the redwyne fleet which is the third largest in westeros

  • @percyweasley9301
    @percyweasley9301 17 дней назад

    Interesting theories 💚💚

  • @bluebird41978
    @bluebird41978 19 дней назад

    5:48 I’m not sure the Shireen/Loras arrangement would go through? Selyse is a Florent, a disgruntled vassal house to the Tyrells. They have beef with them because, before Aegon’s Conquest, house Tyrell was a hereditary steward to the Gardner kings of the Reach, with whom they occasionally intermarried. House Florent claims the title of Wardens of the South through stronger blood ties to the former kings; instead, Aegon gave it to the Tyrells because a Tyrell surrendered the Reach to him instead of joining the Gardner family BBQ at the Fields of Fire, in which House Florent was likely involved on the losing side. Basically, they was robbed. I wouldn’t be surprised if they only joined Stannis because he promised them that position once he sat on the Iron Throne, so such an arrangement would make them go apeshit.

  • @MultiRedskull
    @MultiRedskull 5 месяцев назад

    "Let others wage war, you happy Tyrell, marry" 😅😅😅

  • @striker8961
    @striker8961 6 месяцев назад +1

    Renly and Robb, pulling the biggest d-ck moves in Westeros since Daemon The First BlackFyre.

  • @alexmartin3143
    @alexmartin3143 2 дня назад

    If they had all their family members from the books. 2 extra brothers that were pretty strong. One is crippled but powerful politically. He was friends with Oberyn. Then there’s the other one i don’t know much about. Garlan and Willas iirc…

  • @ViscountAsmodeus
    @ViscountAsmodeus Месяц назад

    Question from someone who has a beginner level knowledge of the ASOIAF and the GOT/HOTD series.
    Are the Hightowers still relevant by the time we reach the GOT era (Robert’s Reign)? Would they be comfortable with the Tyrells (a lesser house in the Reach that was elevated by Aegon) to possess such power that they once possessed?

  • @ethanprw
    @ethanprw 6 месяцев назад

    The weakness of the reach is its strength. Rich in and and people, there are many great house as great if not greater than the Tyrells. If not united behind a strong warden, they have much to lose to their powerful vassals that eye their power eagerly. In contrast to the lannisters and sharks, they have far less influence over their vassal houses. That’s why the reach rarely intervenes fully into conflicts, in fear of great losses.

  • @SarbulandALI-ih8vr
    @SarbulandALI-ih8vr 6 месяцев назад +4

    I would love to see how House Aryn/balish would win the game of thrones

  • @Palepetal
    @Palepetal 4 месяца назад +1

    The Tyrells were trying to remove Cersei from King's Landing back to Casterly Rock. Albeit by manipulating Tommen. They already assassinated Joffrey, if Cersei died then it would look suspicious on the Tyrell's end. But yeah, they underestimated how far Cersei was willing to go to secure power. Then again, so did the Reynes and Tarbecks underestimate how far Tywin was willing to go to secure power.

  • @ZachAsaD
    @ZachAsaD 2 месяца назад

    The woman who played Margery in the show was soooooo good ❤

  • @biggurl4118
    @biggurl4118 4 месяца назад +1

    Easier option. Robb marries Margery and then gives the Tyrells the Iron Throne when they kill the Lannisters, while Robb rules the North and maybe Riverlands. Alternatively he could take the throne himself if need be.

    • @fightingmedialounge519
      @fightingmedialounge519 4 месяца назад

      That wouldn't work given robbs Motivation , the geographical locations of the characters during the war, and the issue of daenareys and the walkers.

  • @MarkusRamikin
    @MarkusRamikin Месяц назад

    The problem is that as soon as Margaery married Tommen, /the Tyrells ceased playing the game/. They just did nothing. Margaery kept teasing Cersei and being smug, and that's it. She allowed Cersei to essentially rule, both presiding over the Small Council, and telling Tommen what edicts to make.
    She thought she had royal power because Tommen loved her. But when she wanted to borrow Tommen's power to get shit done (like to remove Cersei from the capital), she just hinted and misled him, and so obviously Tommen did nothing, because he didn't understand her real intentions. He needed to be clearly instructed and politically educated - or if that was implausible, manipulated in a more decisive manner.

  • @thegreatid3595
    @thegreatid3595 4 месяца назад

    That's pretty much the only way outside of dragons to beat the Starks is to give them a reason to drive south of Moat Cailin (Which drove back every southern army in history).
    Robb would've been able to kick his feet up and relax if his mother wasn't a Tully, and they didn't have to save any family members.

  • @Random_Wierdo.
    @Random_Wierdo. 6 месяцев назад +1

    I loved what Cersi did. Desperate times call for desperate measures

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +1

      😂 I would agree, if not for the fact those desperate times were caused by her own stupidity. Thanks for watching! Liam

    • @Random_Wierdo.
      @Random_Wierdo. 6 месяцев назад +1

      @@TheFandomeClips probably. But I really disliked Marjorie after the way she treated Tommen! He was such a cinnamon roll ❤️

    • @giorgiamoretti6642
      @giorgiamoretti6642 6 месяцев назад

      @@Random_Wierdo.margaery treated tommen better than his own mother…

    • @Random_Wierdo.
      @Random_Wierdo. 6 месяцев назад

      @@giorgiamoretti6642 no. Cersei never treated Tommen or his sister badly. The only people she loved were her children.

    • @giorgiamoretti6642
      @giorgiamoretti6642 6 месяцев назад

      @@Random_Wierdo. the only person she loved is herself. She neglected tommen and myrcella, to the point that as soon as anyone shows them any forme of care and attention they fall for them. Biggest example being tommen himself that fell in love with margaery just because she gifted him a cat ,was nice to him and nothing more. The show tried to give Cersei a bit of redemption by making her a ‘loving’ mother and margaery a seductress but the point still stands lol she ‘loved’ him so much she lead him to suicide

  • @adamcahoon6362
    @adamcahoon6362 6 месяцев назад +1

    I suppose the issue I have with the Tyrell-Lannister alliance plan, is when to get rid of Cersei and how? If we are poisoning her after Joffery's death then people will likely get suspicious and the Tyrells risk getting caught. I suppose you could hire a faceless man to do it but two royal asassinations would still tip people off risks some of the same things. The safest bet I could see is if the Tyrells remove Cersei with Joffery where the crown likely just pins the deaths on Tyrion. But that also requires the Tyrells to properly estimate her alongside Joffery which I doubt they'd do. Afterall, if they could assess her threat level accurately like they did the boy king in the show, why didn't they in the OG story?

    • @giorgiamoretti6642
      @giorgiamoretti6642 6 месяцев назад +1

      Well would it be soo weird if the queen mother, a known alcoholic, died of overdose after the death of her precious boy? Wink wink, and I would add more people don’t like Cersei than they do so I would question how much they would put in the effort to investigate further, I’m not sure even if Tywin would do it

    • @adamcahoon6362
      @adamcahoon6362 5 месяцев назад

      However, I think I found a solution; Marry Cersei to Loras before the purple wedding. Doing this would allow them to take Cersei away to high garden after the trial and where’d they have more exclusivity to Tommen and no Cersei in KL. And even if she causes trouble at high garden, then she can simply befall an accident with an investigation at the control of house Tyrell.

  • @davidlewis5312
    @davidlewis5312 6 месяцев назад +3

    Question: if the Tyrells sit out book 2, do you think Renly still crowns himself king? I don't see the motivation being as strong with like half the stormlords.
    And I know you were focused on show canon but Wyllas in the books is friends with Ob

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +2

      IMO Renly only crowns himself due to the backing of the Tyrells. I’m sure he shows Ned a painting of Margery as a potential scheme to replace Cersei as Roberts wife.
      Wyllas actually doesn’t have a grudge against Oberyn which is a great point and possible Alliance deal with Dorne between him and Duran doesn’t seem a Stretch - Thom

    • @davidlewis5312
      @davidlewis5312 6 месяцев назад

      @@TheFandomeClips in further of that, I believe Arianna (misspell) even tried to seduce Wyllas at some point hoping to make him her husband. Wyllas seemed uninterested, either implying him and Oberdyn are closer than we think ;) or he i aware of some of the Martell machinations. I think the former is more likely.

  • @MrOats-bs1ry
    @MrOats-bs1ry 6 месяцев назад +3

    The Tyrells, are quite interesting since they have lot's and lot's of vassals and depending on how loyal those vassals are going to be in a different timeline, that probably could decide what the Tyrells would do.... or they could just use the Vale strat of just chilling in peace

    • @carastone3473
      @carastone3473 6 месяцев назад

      *lots and lots* No apostrophe needed

    • @nunyabiznes33
      @nunyabiznes33 6 месяцев назад

      Indeed. The two largest vassals that are directly married to the family - the Hightowers and the Redwynes - are enough to help win a war imho.

  • @danielgalvez7953
    @danielgalvez7953 6 месяцев назад

    Your thumbnail misspelled everyone

  • @mikecastro122
    @mikecastro122 6 месяцев назад

    The tyrells have the redwynee fleet which in the show is the second largest fleet in the show and olyenna tyrell is originally from house redwynee

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад

      Pinned comment Mike mate, I can't keep typing the same thing 😂 but they likely won't have access to it into he Dany scenario

  • @2ndacc425
    @2ndacc425 5 месяцев назад +1

    This maybe a longshot, but couldn’t they side with the north and agree with Robb to give him his independence while they get the iron throne?

    • @2ndacc425
      @2ndacc425 5 месяцев назад

      maybe even with the long term plan to get them back (in like a generation or so)

    • @fightingmedialounge519
      @fightingmedialounge519 4 месяца назад

      Unlikely given they want to marry into the thrown rather than directly sitting on it.

  • @Butterflyblink182
    @Butterflyblink182 Месяц назад

    I LOVE LOVE LOVE THE TYRELLS (#1 house!!!) I even don’t mind Margaery and Loras’ death because it was very Game of Thrones-y and Margaery died in a great character-affirming way where she was the smartest person in the room. HOWEVER, there’s no way Olenna would have been chilling in highgarden and run down in 15 minutes while sending men to Casterly Rock. Tyrion also wouldn’t have been idiotic enough to suggest it 🤦

  • @scapegoat_games
    @scapegoat_games 6 месяцев назад +1

    If Tywin didn't die, Cersei would never have been allowed to let the Faith Militant to arm. He would have stopped her from doing so.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +1

      Tywin was very likely dead regardless of Tyrions actions. The theroy that Oberyn had poisoned him during his visit is only really called a theroy because it hasn't been outright confirmed yet 😂 but I agree Tywin was the lynch pin of the lions, he was the only one with the mindset to keep the Lannisters on top!

  • @mappingshaman5280
    @mappingshaman5280 6 месяцев назад

    15:59 excuse me what? I know in the show their naval might is never shown but in the books which you've quoted a lot, the tyrells vassals, namely the hightowers and redwynes have a huge fleet that competes with the ironborn.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад

      Thom did make a note of this on the script but i forgot to insert it 😂 The Redwyne fleet is impotent and unable to do jack because the Lannisters hold Paxters sons at the red keep. Stannis wins Blackwater those hostages likely become his and thus best case the fleet stays impotent, worst case Stannis forces Paxter to use it against the Tyrells.

  • @debater452
    @debater452 6 месяцев назад +2

    This is a weird idea, but how could book/season 1 Danny win. Drogo dosen't die and she lacks dragon's. This is way more intresting because she dosen't have dragons and the political situation in westeros when she lands

    • @nordicgaming5429
      @nordicgaming5429 6 месяцев назад +1

      The issue with Dothraki hordes in general, is their armament. If they went up against more armored opponents, probably anyone worth a damn in Westeros, their weapons would be wasted completely. Also, they didn’t really have a way to siege out an castle, which would be worse than normal because their horses would need to graze the area, eventually making both sides starving themselves. Drogo would literally be forced to send out raiding parties to secure food for his horses and men, or else he will be stuck in a war of attrition, Which leaves said parties Vulnerable for other forces. The Unsullied would be Nice to have, but i’m not sure they’d go that route if Drogo didn’t die. Dorne would be more unsure of what they can actually gain as an marriage pact simply won’t work by default if Drogo is alive, and killing him is likely to disband the horde if they grow discontent.
      Drogo dying probably was for the best long term for Dany’s forces overall.

    • @debater452
      @debater452 6 месяцев назад

      @@nordicgaming5429 I just think this is intresting. Also Westeros isn't united and Danny has allies like all of Dorne in Westeros

  • @alexandererikreambillo1070
    @alexandererikreambillo1070 6 месяцев назад +1

    Daenerys/ House Targaryen next plssss

  • @bigz4302
    @bigz4302 5 месяцев назад +1

    Id like to see your take on how the show should've ended.
    Dany's rampage on drogon was completely out of character, like she had always shown that she can be brutally ruthless and bloodthirsty but never excessively and never without reason

  • @Absolute_Goblin
    @Absolute_Goblin 2 месяца назад +1

    No ones going to comment about the thumbnail? He took Margys sad flapjacks and gave them a massive enhancement lmao

  • @lathanandrews1137
    @lathanandrews1137 3 месяца назад +1

    Margaery marries Aegon. Boom.

  • @zhanarysbalzhigitov4786
    @zhanarysbalzhigitov4786 6 месяцев назад

    Love this ceries

  • @ocorir
    @ocorir 6 месяцев назад

    lol 20:10, the "THIS BITCH" felt like it had maybe 10 years of trauma behind it

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +1

      Aha for Liam! I was all for Cersei in those final seasons! Didn't get distracted and played the game to the fullest :p

  • @vencent6206
    @vencent6206 6 месяцев назад

    you should do how little finger could have Won The Game Of Thrones

  • @gluehuffer2869
    @gluehuffer2869 6 месяцев назад

    You should do how little finger could win the game of thrones, through sheer manipulation and scheming, it would be very interesting and entertaining

    • @godemperorofmankind3.091
      @godemperorofmankind3.091 6 месяцев назад

      i think once Bran got his powers, Littlefinger was kinda screwed at that point, no matter what.

  • @WallNutBreaker524
    @WallNutBreaker524 5 месяцев назад

    I like how Dany and the White walkers are basically the "Crisis" (Stellaris Term.) For GOT 😂 And quite sad how despite being the "Protagonists" the Starks have been kicked even while down throughout the show. Breaks my heart.

  • @DogOfWar64
    @DogOfWar64 26 дней назад

    Never underestimate Mace the Ace!

  • @OurHiltsHurt
    @OurHiltsHurt 6 месяцев назад +3

    Mace for the win

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад +1

      Mace Windu is pretty legit. ;) - Thom

    • @OurHiltsHurt
      @OurHiltsHurt 6 месяцев назад

      @@TheFandomeClips lol Tyrell >>> Windumb

  • @jamesf3871
    @jamesf3871 6 месяцев назад +1

    Bella gerunt alii. Tu, felix Domus Tirelii, nube!

  • @soxpeewee
    @soxpeewee 4 месяца назад +1

    Wilko Johnson (Ilyn Payne) was a badass to be going thru that and filming.

  • @GenericUsername-qp1ww
    @GenericUsername-qp1ww 19 дней назад

    the Tyrell's could have won if Mace's singing career took place earlier

  • @copycat2025
    @copycat2025 5 месяцев назад

    I think one of the points thats too contrived is that Stannis could easily deal with Highgarden. Without Dorn, the Riverlands, the North, or the Vail the Storm Lands is outnumbered a little under 3 to 1 in the field against the Reach. Yes, he is a good battle commander but the Reach suffered no losses while Stannis had to fight the Lannisters and the North and Riverlands. The Tyrells bending the knee after he wins while waiting for Danny may enrage Stannis but he simply wouldn't have the manpower to fight them and he cannot convince the Vale or Dorn to assist him.

  • @joshu4272
    @joshu4272 6 месяцев назад +1

    Yes white walkers had away, in the non D&D story

  • @echidnaralsei1473
    @echidnaralsei1473 6 месяцев назад

    there are still tyrells in the books. winds of winter will come.

    • @TheFandomeClips
      @TheFandomeClips  6 месяцев назад

      Absolutely! If we ever get that book that is 😂

  • @SapphireSolstice67
    @SapphireSolstice67 2 месяца назад

    Is that part of the thumbnail edited?