Why Ramsay Bolton and The Mountain are so different, yet so twisted?
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2024
- We're back with a most worrisome question. Who was the Most Evil out of Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane and Ramsay Bolton? We break this down in multiple categories to find out who really was the most evil.
00:00 Intro
00:54 Segment 1
07:45 Segment 2
8:56 Segment 3
11:56 Segment 4
15:30 Who is the Most Evil
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I actually will claim some expertise here. I have a degree in criminology and have studied psychology in university as well. Ramsey is absolutely a sociopath rather than a psychopath. Put simply psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made. A psychopath is born with a mental and emotional inability to connect with the emotions of others and so develops a code of their own to operate in the world, that code usually involving or at least justifying violence because the individual is incapable of feeling empathy for what that violence does to other people. A sociopath develops anti social tendencies through life experience and most frequently through some kind of trauma. This is why sociopaths are much more sadistic because sadism requires an emotional connection to the victim to understand in some way what he or she is feeling. Ramsey is clearly capable of emotion and empathy and does care for Miranda and others. He is a creature created by his environment and experience while Gregor is a complete animal driven only by his own inborn nature.
Hey James great to hear from you and your educated imput! Yeah I see a lot of people classing Ramsey as a psychopath and Gregor as a sociopath, mostly justified with Ramsey is intelligent and Gregor is dumb and hot-headed, but it wasn't until I looked to two of my qualified friends, one of who is a full blown psychiatrist that i was informed of just how wrong the Internet can be at times 😂 apparently film depictions of mastermind Pyschopaths are the exception not the rule and the idea of the hot headed impulsive Sociopath is also just one of the many ways the disorder manifests. They also told me in a real life clinical setting both would just get slapped with an ASPD diagnosis and Greg might get his brain scanned to see what areas light up if there was precident. I'm glad to see what they told me been backed up by another educated fellow! Thanks for tuning in as usual! Liam
The differentiation is a bit worn out anyway and just like BPD the *common image* is now all over the place, at least when it comes to media and pop culture in general. Where I'm at, we don't even use the term sociopathy anymore and just stop at APD - most of the time anyway. But then again, I feel like Cluster B personalities are bound to be mixed up quite often.
Agree, I have the same conclusion.
I don't feel the question was phrased properly. If I had to be "trapped in a keep" with one, I'd choose Ransey. Assuming we're both unarmed, I could potentially kill him and escape. If we're talking whose prisoner would I rather be, then definitely Clegane.
Thats providing he doesn't get the drop on you or trick you into thinking he's someone else and making you believe he's your friend. But your point is valid. Id rather fight Ramsey over Greg any day of the week 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Thanks for producing interesting content.👍🏽
@@Edmures_rampant_manhood thank you for tuning in Chris! We appreciate it!
Basically exactly what I was going to say
Don't get me wrong, I would rather fight ramsey than a clegane any day ever. But Ramsey uses a longbow-ish weapon with what looks like a really high draw weight, unfortunately even though he's small and a worm compared to the mountain, he can still easily murder most people with his bare hands.
Gregor's headaches and childhood villainy make me think there's some medical issues there. Tumors related to his size and such pushing on his brain maybe?
There's definitely something suppressing his empathy thats for sure 😂 thanks for watching Randy! Liam
Good thinking. Tumors or brain damage are very common reasons for extreme aggression, and a very high rate of the most vile serial killers have it. Charles Whitman who one day shot forty-some people from a clock-tower wrote a suicide letter where he asked, that his brain be studied after his death, because he did not understand why he was thinking and feeling the way he did. He was sure that there was something wrong with his head. And he was right: He did indeed have a brain tumor.
The only way to deal with Ramsey is to repeat this Mantra to him, "Bastard." Perhaps he'll kill you quickly in a fit of rage and also remind him that it bugs him and that you were able to crawl under his skin with only a single word.
I think that's the key with Ramsey. Like most sociopaths control and domination is often vital to their psychology, they can flex their power over you all they want but the second you remind them they don't have TOTAL control over the situation they ethier throw a childish tantrum or is more likely the case with Ramsey, get very VERY angry. Thanks for watching D2, appreciate it! Liam
Ser Gregor is literally a walking tank that also rides a horse and has a sword taller than 85 percent of the population, he's the medieval equivalent of a heroin addict and a few inches shy of being a giant who's full of rage & hate, rules and laws don't apply to him so he does what he wants when he wants and only answers to one man and one man only..... He's as terrifying as a horror movie monster
No doubt Deb! He can give a terminator a run for their money, definitely a scary Mofo! Thanks for watching as always! Liam
The thing is Gregor is pretty useless by himself being most effective as a terror weapon when he has a more intelligent and strategic commander to direct him. He's evil but he needs a master and as such can be constrained by that master's will. Ramsey simply does whatever he wants. No one can command or control him. I shudder to think what could happen if Ramsey somehow got control of Clegane and became his master using him as a weapon to terrorize others. That almost deserves its own story.
That is a terrifying thought and I now hate George for not giving it to us 😂
Ramsey having The Mountain as an attack dog?.....that would be a terrifying combination!
At that point, self deletion is the best option
Ramsay is a mad dog, Gregor can at least be reined in. Both are way beyond the pale, but one is controllable.
*Gregor. Sandor is the Hound
Very good point Libertylemonz! I think there's pros and cons to both, its all well and good been able to reign in the mountain but the person who can reign him in is just as morally bankrupt as he is. Thanks for watching! Liam
And I'm pretty sure the hound would gut anyone confusing them for one another 😂
@@TichondriusTheScourg Yeah thanks, it's been a while since I've read/watched the series
If you thing Gregor can be “reined” in or controlled. You should read the books. The only time he ever stops in the middle of a tirade was at the command of the king Robert. And at that point it was because Sandor dropped his sword at kings behest.
Def RB, Gregor was evil, but he was kinda mindless, whereas Ramsay likes it
I guess that's the argument. Can an animal actually be evil? Ramsey on the other hand takes it to mind breaking and twisted heights. Thanks for watching good Ser! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips another question: can animals commit crimes?
@@The_Knight_of_Hellesexactly! I guess it comes down to how much credit you can give to Gregors conscience existing, he seems to act primarily on instinct but obviously he can also obey orders so he's not totally empty upstairs
The mountain is just a giant brutal bully
Ramsey is……Ramsey
Gregor just seems like a beast. I haven't read the books, but in the show he comes off as almost like an animal. I'm not sure he's all there mentally. Ramsay on the other hand, he's a smart guy, and that makes him much more vile in my opinion.
Greg is dumb its true but in the books he's a lot more twisted in the things he does and definitely gives Ramsey a run for his money on the mess up front, but I agree with you, I'd rather piss Greg off into killing me quick than try to outwit Ramsey who has some intellect at least. Thanks for watching Cameron! Liam
The Mountain seems emotionally empty…well, outside of murderous rage. I’m not sure happiness is something that enters into his existence of violence, even when he did what he did to Elia Martel and her children; George portrays him more like a force of nature, down to his inanimate moniker.
Ramsay, as you note, is more of a sociopath. He revels in the sadism, the cruelty and fear he inflicts upon his victims.
I’ll argue his reaction to the Bastard Boys being killed is more of a reaction to the insult of someone striking another close to him. He doesn’t care so much about them as much as what they can do for him/allow him to do. People are either playmates or playthings.
Ironically, Gregor is probably more at peace as Robert Strong. He still gets to stomp around and do atrocities but is presumably free of constant migraines.
My conclusion: Ramsay is more evil. Heck, calling Gregor evil would be like calling a feral beast evil. You can’t even grant him the appellation of being the banality of evil because there’s not even an apparent self-serving explanation for his actions.
Warlord enters the chat!!! How's it going buddy? I absolutely love the force of nature comparison to Gregor, extremely apt. Of course its all dependent on assessment on their psychology been correct. I did actually consult two close friends, one whose a psychologist and the other a fully qualified pyschatrist to get their opinions and their responses were basically you can't really diagnose fictional characters with any kind of legitimacy, because apparently it takes a lot of detailed and usually up close examination and often personal interaction to accurately diagnose disorders as serious as ASPD, but from a surface just for fun glance and using unprofessional pop psychology language, Greg might be a psychopath and Ramsey might be a sociopath and here's the reasons why which is what I based that section on combined with my own research. Apparently according to my friends, in a professional setting they'd both just get diagnosed with ASPD and Gregor MIGHT get his brain scanned to see which sections light up whatever that means if they thought there was precedent for it 😂 I like the assessment of the Bastards boys too, Ramsey kills one if I remember right but thats because there're his toys/playmates, noone else is allowed to play with them. Thanks for watching as always Warlord! Liam
I never believed I could say smtg like that but :"THANK GOD THERE'S JUST GREGOR CLEGANE IN THE ROOM" 🤣🤣🤣
Oh wow I just noticed how small of a channel this is. Surprising considering how high quality this content is. Keep up the passion and I’m sure the numbers will come!
Thanks Evan, yeah we're just a little baby channel at the moment, haven't been at it all that long and finding out feet still, thanks for the well wishes! Liam
I feel like if you’re locked in a castle with him sir Gregor would probably not go to far out of his way to kill you and wouldn’t devote a ton of effort to killing you unless you gave him a reason or got to close for to long. Ramsey on the other hand I feel would go out of his way to find you and torture you because he’s bored and treat it like one of his hunts.
Congratulations! Third person to realise Ramsey isn't going to just run at you unarmed so you can paste him 😂 i think if take Greg any day, he's less likely to actively hunt you down and might be a tad easier to outwit 😂 thanks for watching Rexbob! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips also to be fair either one of them would probably beat the shit out of me if I was unarmed and even if I was I wouldn’t try to pick a fight with either of them if possible as both have far more experience then me.
I once read an article that quoted GRRM as saying Walter White from Breaking Bad was more of a monster than Ramsay Bolton! Which, I think, is complete and utter nonsense! Also, how does the evilness of Joffrey compare to Ramsay?
Haha did he? Its not even close and that's with Walter been a pretty bad dude 😂 Well when researching for this video I consulted 2 of my friends who are professionals in the field of psychology (one is even a fully blown pyschatrist not just a psychologist) and they talked a bit about Joffery while I was asking them about Ramsey and Greg. He's definitely on the path to some kind of ASPD disorder in both book and show but unlike the show where he is clearly exhibiting signs of what pop psychology would term a dysfunctional sociopath (Basically a sociopath who parasitically relies on others to exert their influence) Joff in the books is a bit more complicated. He's definitely on the path to socially influenced ASPD but a large portion of the shitty things he does is speculated to actually be motivated by a deep seeded need for his fathers approval. Robert basically ignored Joffery growing up and it only made him try harder for attention. Alot of the moments where he is trying exert authority in the books is speculated to actually be him trying to emulate how he thinks his father would act.
So to sum it up Show Joffery is a dysfunctional sociopath who would try to match Ramseys level of evil but would ultimately be outwitted by Ramsey who is a functional Sociopath (a sociopath who needs no back up to be one twisted mofo) . Book Joffery on the other hand while on the path to ASPD is basically just an extremely spoiled kid in an extremely messed up culture and society looking for his fathers approval both when alive and posthumously and Ramsey would definitely have a lot of fun getting to the core of that 😂
TLDR- Ramsey would eat both of them alive on the evil and messed up front 😂
Thanks for watching Matt and sharing your thoughts!
@@TheFandomeClips I don't know how accurate the quote I read was, but I thought it was ridiculous, which is why I vaguely remember it. No way is Walter White more evil than Ramsay!
Maybe if Joffrey would have lived longer, he might have reached the levels of evil that Ramsay did? He did die very young, after all. Perhaps Ramsay wasn't quite that evil in his late teens, either. But, I bet his evil did start early.
@@TheFandomeClips Yeah, Walter isn't all that cruel, really, he's ruthless, that's a big difference. Do you pose no threat to him and are you irrelevant to him? You have literally nothing to fear from Walter. He will just ignore you. Ramsey? He relishes in torturing people who did nothing to him.
Interesting idea, to look at the characters physcology. Lesser minds would have stopped at psychology, but here we get the full physcological picture.
Thanks Mike!!! I did actually consult two of my RL friends, both of whom are qualified professionals (ones even a full blown pyschatrist) to get their two cents. Their answers were basically "you can't really diagnose fictional characters as it takes extensive evaluation to make such diagnosis, but just for fun and using pop psychology here's where we'd place them" in real life both would just get slapped with an ASPD diagnosis apparently 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
Now you make me feel bad. I was just making fun of a type at the very beginning and you come at me with a well thought out and comprehensive reply to something I didn't even mean to say.
You win. I bow my head in shame for being a bit of a bully. I'm sorry.
Idea who is a more incompitent politician. Book Cersie or Bealon Grayjoy
Is Book Cersei more incompetent than Show Cersei?
@@MatthewTheWanderer Much more because book Cersia dosen't have plot magic
@@debater452 Then, why specify the more competent version when discussing incompetence?
@@MatthewTheWanderer Book Cersie commits way more screw up's and we know more about her thought process
@@debater452 More screw-ups? I thought you said she was less incompetent? Btw, I've read all of the books and watched the entire series. But, it's been a while for either.
Another great video. Do you guys think there are any characters who top these guys when it comes to evilness? The top candidates gotta be book Euron, Tywin and Roose Bolton.
I think the only guy who comes close to ethier of these two is Euron. Next to him these two look like their playing at been evil 😂 Thanks for tuning in SWD! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips yeah I only know a little bit about book Euron and I’m glad about that. The few things I’ve heard I mean wow it doesn’t get much worse than that.
@@TheFandomeClips
Book Euron is chaotic evil, Tywin is lawful evil, and Roose is neutral evil.
@@11bluekitkatshe basically might be the westeros equivalent of cthullu made flesh 😂
@@shifterverse If I had to describe him to a friend who’s never seen thrones I’d say either that or he’s like game of thrones Antichrist or something of that nature.
So both are evil enough that they have gone past the line. But I agree that Ramsey is probably the more horrific threat because of what happens after.
The Mountain is a simple threat like a bear. It may hurt when you face it, but what it wants to do is pure physical pain. Ramsey is a threat to who you are in your mind and soul. I also think he peverts more potential virtues than Gregor does. And for all the many flaws Gregor is loyal to his masters. IT is the palest virtue as his masters are evil men (and frankly I view Tywin Lannister as more vile than them both) but it shows a route to in some way moderate his evils. Not so Ramsey.
Amazing points Neo! I think your right about Tywin too, I'm not sure I'd say hes worse than Ramsey, but for sure he's the one point Gregor in the direction where he'll commit the most atrocities. Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips My point for Tywin is that.... Well we know he can be better. He is capable of being charismatic, authoritative, diplomatic and so on. So when he drops into barbarism and pettiness (like his treatment of Tyrion) he is someone who has shown noble qualities aplenty but still does this.
Plus his place so high in the social hierarchy of Westeros makes him much harder to give any excuses for. Compared to a Bastard like Ramsey who is able to be discarded at will, or Gregor who could well be sold out if it was beneficial (tell me he wouldn't sell Gregor out to Dorne if it would guarantee their armies joined his side - he is high up the ladder but not near the top) he is untouchable. Nobody can make him do anything.
In short, Gregor and Ramsey are broken animals with little to no redeeming virtues, though Ramsey has the tiniest slivers of ability. Tywin is a man of great virtue who perverts it all through pettiness, wounded pride, arrogance and an inability to accept anything but his own way. When he enters barbarism we know he could be more.
@@neodigremoamazing points neo! Yeah I get what your saying. Thats kind of why we think there's an argument for Gregor been on Ramseys level of evil. Gregor could be like Barristan with his position as a landed Knight but chooses to abuse his position and power to pillage and destroy the lives of the small folk!
I think the equations ends up being pretty simple. There's nothing the mountain will do that Ramsey won't.
Both are killers. Both are rapists. Both will torture. But there are things Ramsey will do the mountain won't.
Gregor is might makes right. He was raised to be a weapon, so the vast majority of his actions were directed by another. He understands he's not the smartest man in the room and that he needs to play the servant to maintain his status and lifestyle. His downfall was poison during a supposed fair duel.
Ramsey is both evil and stupid.
Ramsey thinks hes the smartest in the room and can scheme and manipulate through fear. He learns what happens when he has no aliies, isn't the smartest in the room, and the other guy isn't afraid of him.
Like most sociopaths Ramsey over estimates himself and his skills, its a pretty common marker
In terms of the show version of Gregor I would agree but in the books Gregor often takes things into his own hands, its less Tywin orders him to do things and more Tywin points Gregors head in a direction and then takes off the lead and let's him run free, I don't think half the stuff Gregor does in the book is under Tywins orders and more is down to his own sick head. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts my fine sasquatch! Liam
if im locked in a keep with one of them, i choose ramsay. he is not a fighter, and i could probably beat the shit out of him, judging by his description
Haha your not the first one to suggest that mate 😂 I can see the logic but unlike Gregor I don't think Ramsey would try to fight you, it'd be cat and mouse and mind games, he might even disguise himself as your close friend and ally and pretend to lead you to freedom instead leading you into a trap. Theon (well book Theon anyway) was a half decent warrior who probably could have taken Ramsey fair and square, problem is Ramsey doesn't let it be fair and square. Thanks for watching! Liam
i always took vargo hoats dismemberment as something tywin told him to do
Agree strongly with the conclusion, and the points 😅
Thanks hiddenechoes! Happy Hallow.......oh right its February and this vid is a touch late 😂
Does Ramsay even torment anyone besides Reek#2 and women in the books? Gregor seems to go after everyone and anyone he's around. The innkeeper story and his interrogations at Harrenhal for examples. Seems like by the time Ramsay has done a hunt, broken a prisoner and is ready for another; Gregor would've slain (and you know what'd) a small town in numbers.
At least with the mountain it will be over in an instant. Ramsey will drag out your suffering until he’s bored which could be fucking years.
Your first video of the year and hoo-boy have you guys picked one doozy of question to ask 😅
Jeremy welcome buddy! Haha this was meant to be our Halloween special before we hit the road bump with the Tyrell vid 😂 as you might be able to tell with the music 😂
@@TheFandomeClips Well, as the old saying goes, better late than never 😊
I thought we were agreed that the woods were full of beasts.”
“Lesser beasts.” Lord Tywin’s fingers laced together under his chin. “Ser Gregor has served us well. No other knight in the realm inspires such terror in our enemies.”
I would rather have broken glass, shoved up my backside, then razors. The thought of my backside being sliced open by razors sickens me to my core. But broken glass I've seen that before. I saw a gentleman who broke a glass mason jar with his anus. It did not look like fun, but it looks a lot more relatable somehow
they're both just cute puppies compared to Euron
So true, but had to make it somewhat fair 😂
I honestly dont know why the tyrells didn't just poison all the Lanesters except for prince Tommon and blame it on Tyrion. I feel like the tyrells would have had it much easier to rule kings landing without so many Lannisters. And if they help King of the north survive they can gain influence and force Rob into a deal to give influence on the north. If they warn Rob about the red wedding hell have no choice but to accept. Especially if the tyrells can end the Lannisters in one fell swoop
As soon as the first Lannister starts turning purple and foaming at the mouth, well the party is over and then nobodies gonna be drinking their wine. They might have killed a few Lannisters at best, but not all of them, and there’s an unacceptable chance that Joffrey might be among the survivors.
Plus how would you manage it so that only the Lannister's are poisoned? Are you gonna have agents in the crowd all waiting and watching to slip something into their when they’re not looking? If even one of them gets caught then the jig is up. You could just poison all the wine, but then you’re going to poison all the guests, Lannister or not, which is is one way to go about it, I guess, but it’s a bit of a sledge hammer approach to assassination.
@@Saurophaganax1931 well poisoning just one Lannister is equally stupid. Cause the others will come after you
@@professorsassafras they didn't even know who'd done it until Olenna Tyrell told Jamie. I'm just saying, it's easily poison one wedding guest, all it takes is one person with a sly hand and a vial of poison.
It's also super easy to poison all the wedding guests, after all Olenna's the one who bought all the food. The downside is it's a Tyrell wedding just as much as a Lannister wedding, so she'd be poisoning all the Tyrrell's as well as the Lannisters so that's no good.
But what you're suggesting is trying to poison only one specific group of the wedding party while sparing the rest. That's when it becomes a logistical nightmare. That's when it becomes so difficult and complicated that they're almost guaranteed to fail, or worse, get caught in the act.
They didn't do it because they couldn't do it. Because stealthily poisoning half of a wedding party while sparing the other half is a lot easier said than done and failure, or worse, exposure was nearly a guarantee had they attempted it.
Ramsay had those cold grey eyes before Reek was in the picture. It’s why roose even sent reek. He saw himself
Oh for sure, but I'd guess Reek only encouraged the immoral behaviour.
15:57 there actually is one point in favor of Gregor, namely he doesn‘t play mindgames with his own guys and fighting for him is probably not a bad job if you‘re into that sort of…lifestyle. In the words of the legend: „we‘re King‘s Men now“. If you have no morals whatsoever, you can be living the life with Gregor, for the most part (unless you snore). Whereas Ramsey is potentially a nightmare to work for even if you‘re as evil as he is.
I wouldn‘t even wanna be in his inner circle.
Theory: While Ramsay was sent away as a child (being a bastard) he was actually killed by his friend/servant Reek. The real Ramsay was also pretty insane, and eventually Reek defended himself and killed him in self defense. The mother, not wanting to lose her connection to a noble, forced Reek to assume the name Ramsay and "imitate him as if your life depended on it". Reek only knew Ramsey for being cruel, and eventually the focused act became the new, real him.
Good theory for the show, but Reeks still around in the books up until the siege of winterfell where Ser Roderick kills him thinking he's Ramsey. Love hearing theory's like this though! Thanks for watching! Liam
To put it simply... Im choosing Gregor, at least I'll have somewhat of swift death.
Haha your the second person to pick Gregor I believe and we must say your logic is quite sound. I think everyone picking Ramsey is under the impression that he'll just run at them unarmed, which isn't exactly his MO 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
12:54 are we sure Gregor isn‘t being actually sadistic here? It certainly seems sadistic to be torturing Hoat in this way. It‘s definitely not the convenient thing to do.
You guys should do one of these with Ramsay versus Euron. Book Euron obviously, show Euron is not nearly scary enough to warrant a match up with either of these guys.
Euron makes Ramsey look like a baby 😂 he was actually in Gregors place originally, but its far too one sided. Thanks for watching Escapist!
The analogy of being locked in a keep with one of them doesn't really work that well tho, as I feel like I'd have a much better chance of taking out Ramsey than the mountain, but I still think Ramsey is the worst
Thats if you know who Ramsey is, what he looks like and know what he's capable of, I think a lot of people in the comments assume he'll just run at you and attack, but as we've seen with Theon it isn't the case, your more likely to be lulled into a trap, at least with the mountain you can recognise hes a threat and run 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
Sheeeeeeeeeit! Luvs Clay Davis 👊
😂 thanks for watching that far! Liam
I picked Ramsey to be locked in a room in. Because the mountain can kill you with his bare hands
You'd definitely want to fight Ramsey over Greg for sure, but thast assuming Ramsey will just run at you and attack, he may trick you into thinking he's your friend and get your when your vulnerable 😳 Thanks for watching Elic! Liam
I’d much rather deal with Ramsay, he’s only threatening when he has some sort of power over you, assuming it’s you are both locked in a keep that means some sort of equal footing and ability to defend yourself. Now if it’s who’s prisoner would you rather be it’s Gregor no doubt, seeing as I’m a man he would just kill me and be done with it
When I started watching the show my gf said that Ramsay is her favorite character, and I think that’s a red flag
Please make sure to post here on a regular basis mate to let us know your still alive 😂 might be a good idea to sleep with one eye open 😴 😀
Gregor. It’s horrible, and since I have female characteristics my worst nightmare would have happened, but being myself is something I value deeply, and I’d rather die as myself than get twisted into a shadow up until the end. I’d chance Ramsey if I could get away with killing him, but I have really bad balance due to scoliosis and I skipped one to many taekwondo classes for me to be comfortable with the odds
Don’t worry guys! I’m here! And I gotta say Ramsay is way worse
Welcome big red! Yeah Greg is a evil asshole but I think only Euron gives Ramsey a run for his money on the twisted front. Thanks for watching! Liam
I love this vidoe cause I love ramsy he is one of my favourite villian and never seems to bore me unlike some other vilians like jofrey who in some scenes are average intresting or boring while every time he is on the screen he is interesting
Who would I choose to be trapped with? Depends on how. If we are both on our own, even if I don't know what Ramsey looks like, I would have a much better chance against him than against the Mountain by default. If they have actual power and can order others around, Ser Gregor is way less terrible. I would die. Simple as that. And since he would probably not have any special ill will towards me, he wouldn't be bothered with inventing a cruel and painful execution method. Because he wouldn't give a damn. Ramsay? Oh boy.
Who's more twisted ? Ramsey or Joffery ?
Ramsey by a country mile. Ramsey is kind of what Joffery could grow up to be in the books if not given a reality check. In the show they are rather similar though Ramsey is still more twisted and worse independent. Joffery needs other to facilitate his twisted deeds where as Ramsey will get it done by his own will. Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips I agree !
Better Leader of their House? Tywin Lannister or Olenna Tyrell?
Great suggestion Adam, if this vid does well we'll definitely add it to the list, Great match up too! Liam
Olenna, she wasn’t a massive control freak. Her kids never turned out like Cersei who could’ve single handed destroyed the Lannisters even without Joffrey. Tywin made House Lannister powerful, but he was unable to pass on his skills to his children. He could’ve with Tyrion, he had not had so much irrational hatred for him. Olenna, while she did fail with Mace, has two grandchildren who are on their way to carrying on their legacy. Margery, Queen of Westeros, so long as she pulls through the allegations from Cersei, and Willas who by most accounts, is a highly able heir to Highgarden. Incoming Walkers and Dragons aside, the Tyrells have a seemingly better future than the Lannisters.
Does Gregor suffer from headaches? Lol, sounds like the Butcher's Nails from 40k. Gregor, Champion of Khorne!
Yeah its established in the books he's in constant pain and frequently using milk of the poppy to dull the pain. Its why despite been cold emotionally he has a massively terrible temper 😂 I think Greg is prime champion of Khorne material, screw Khan 😂
Also remember what Ramsey did to Jeyne Poole?
If i had to be locked in a keep with a ramsay because i meet be able to kill him but i cant kill the mountain
I feel like theres a wierd limbo here, i feel like the context is the most important. As an adult man i feel like in a fight i could probably beat ramsy if we were on equal footing the mountain is a diffrent story.
I feel more confident in my ability to defend my self from ramsy than from the mountain. On the other hand losing to ramsy would be worst than losing to the mountain the mountain would kill you, ramsy wouldnt hed keep you till he was done torturing you than kill you.
If im droppimg in a victim of theese people id choose the mountian any day, but if there across the room and want to hurt me id choose ramsy.
I did have a long rules section originally scripted for that scenario but Thom cut it for pacing reasons. The idea was you were dropped somewhere random and they are dropped somewhere random and your given no indicator of what either looks like and the only weapons you can use are what you might find in a typical castle. Personally I'd pick Gregor, if you stay out of his way and hide he'll probably leave you alone and you can slit his throat when he goes to sleep, he also looks pretty distinctively threatening whereas Ramsey may disguise himself and play friend until your vulnerable or make it a game of cat and mouse, way more scary to face in my opinion. Thanks for watching Fish! Liam
I was the 69th like.
Now everyone picture the mountain 69ing ramsey with that little Kanye west Tyrion Lannister waking off in the corner
😂😂😂
Great analysis! I would like to add, though, that although Ramsey is definitely the sadist king, Gregor is also a sadist to some extent. One example is the way he treated Elia and her children. All he had to do was kill them, but he raped and massacred then for his own pleasure. And then there is the torture people to death at Harrenhal. Tywin says it the best when he arrives, that it was stupid to torture and kill people when they were better used for labor. Tywin is, imo, the best example of a non-sadistic psychopath. Yes - he orders horrific things, including torture, but not because he enjoys the suffering; simply because it benefits him. Again why Tywin berates Gregor for the torture at Harrenhal. Not because he feels empathy towards the victims, but because it is counterproductive.
Such an insightful comment requires an sufficiently insightful reply I think! So I actually consulted two friends of mine before writing the script for this video. One is a fully qualified phycologist and the other is a full blown psychiatrist (so they know their shit) and I asked for their thoughts on these two characters as well as Joffery, Tywin and Littlefinger for future video ideas.
After the initial response of "you can't actually diagnose fictional characters with any degree of true accuracy due to needing to sit down with them and spend a good amount of time analysing them" and also "Psychopath and Sociopath are pop psychology terms, professionals just refer to both as ASPD (Anti social personality disorder)" they relented and gave me their thoughts from a "surface analysis" perspective and this is what they had to say on Gregor been sadistic because I honestly thought the same thing you did and that Gregor was sociopathic and sadistic.
Motivation is a massive factor in Sadism, psychopathic people like Gregor can and will torture people, but its the motivation that determines whether or not its actually sadism. Gregors motivations for hurting people are generally utilitarian or to satisfy his more primal needs or a desire to exert control. The pain he causes is more of a by-product of what he wants rather than been the main goal. Psychopaths lack emotional empathy almost in it's entirety and you need that in order to get the rush a Sadist gets when they inflict pain. Elia and her children, Harrenhal and what he did to Sandor were all motivated by other objectives rather than solely the desire for the pleasure of inflicting pain.
I also thought Tywin was a psychopath too, but apparently he doesn't actually tick nearly enough boxes to score high enough to be one. He's actually more in line with a Machiavellian narcissist (which does have overlapping traits with Psychopathy). His cruelty and immoral choices are motivated by nothing other than pragmatism. His genuine love for his wife and the desire to bring renown to his house name and legacy rather than himself also makes him unlikely to be a psychopath according to my qualified friends. Apparently it takes a lot more than just been pragmatic, cold and cruel to be deemed a Psychopath or Sociopath.
Thanks for watching and the Kind words Maikenlsten! Liam
Id rather be locked with Gregor... i mean SER GREGOR! oh fuck..😭
😂 your probably the first whose realised Ramsey isn't just going to run at you unarmed and unprepared or let you know that he's Ramsey, still good luck fending off Greg my man! Thanks for watching! Liam
I'm no psychiatrist but Ramsey comes across as a sociopath which is actually more scary in my mind than a psychopath.
Edit..ok so you agree with me at 5:46
Socially influenced ASPD is definitely more scary, see a Pyschopath doesn't think what they are doing is wrong, a sociopath knows its wrong and will do it anyway, despite been capable of empathising with you, way more twisted to me.
Sociopath and Pyschopath are just pop psychology terms though, professionals would just slap both Greg and Ramsey with a diagnosis of ASPD.
Thanks for watching Thunderchild! Liam
id argue what ramsay did to the girl little finger gave to him pretending she was arya stark is a bit more fucked up than him hunting those women, yes its fucking atrocious what he does, but at least he kills them after the hunt, the other girl is unfortunately someone he keeps around and tortures far longer than anyone else i believe
I'll take Gregor because even though he's a brute he's an idiot, he has the emotional maturity of a toddler.
I could kick Ramsey’s ass, but if he’s in power? Fuuuuck that I’m taking The Mountain and just keeping out of his way lmfaoooo
Idea is your locked in and you don't know what etheir looks like, we did have a section explaining this but it was cut in the edit for pacing reasons, but yeah while most guys could kick Ramseys ass I doubt he's just going to run at you unarmed 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips ok so I’ve rewatched the series up until Ramseys death - like I’m literally in the credits rn - and in all honesty I’d rather The Mountain. Clegane is mad and brutal but if Tywin can command him and his men carry out commands from him then I may be able to survive just simply by not pissing him off.
Ramsey is just the purest form of evil that arguably deserved a worse death than he got - more like the “king” of Qarth in Season 2 or maybe left for the wights. Either way - unless it’s just me and Ramsey in a fully equal field - I’m taking the mountain
You didn’t mention a certain scene including a minor and a giant
The mountain would ironically kill you more quickly. Ramsey would flay you alive and I dont think its a death anyone would want. At least with the Mountain you can get a warriors death.
With Ramsey you’ll be violated and die screaming.
Nah anyone in decent shape could kick ramsays balls up his neck.
The mountain is an 8 foot killing machine layered In 2 sets of armor with a giant sword and shield.
I'd take my chances with ramsay
I would much rather deal with the mountain. Yes he would die, but she would kill you quickly or at least quicker than Ramsay
0:48 GRRM is such a freaking nerd, I swear
I'll never get over how easily Ramsay murdered Roose in the show. The sheer laziness on display there was just crazy.
On a different note, a lot of people here seem to be unaware that book ramsay is more physically intimidating than his show counterpart, so as an average man, I don't feel so confident in my ability to overpower him in this scenario. I still have a better chance than against Clegane though, that's for sure. Assuming there's no weapons, tools, or torture devices around of course. I'f I'm a prisoner, I'll choose Gregor for obvious reasons.
I also found it odd that Roose, the coldest, iceiest mofo in the series would opt to hug a son he refers to as a mad dog 😂
I did have a section explaining the rules of the keep scenario but we cut it for pacing reasons, but basically, your locked in and you don't know what ethier of them looks like and while you both start unarmed, you can access whatever you can get your hands on in a typical castle.
Yeah book Ramsey is a big flabby, but notably quite strong fellow. Hes also super repulsive, that gross you out just by been touched level of repulsive 😂
Thanks for watching Zekai and giving your thoughts! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips I gotta say though, this was super fun and I'd love to see you make a couple more of these matchup/comparison- type videos in the future. It's been a while since I've seen some quality ASOIAF content like the stuff you've been putting out❤
@@zekaizerguy1181 thanks! Just need the viewers to watch them! :p We might be pausing this series for a wee while until we find something to really sink our teeth into though! - Thom :D
I would take my Chance with ser Gregor
Gregor be living that mincraft youtubers dream when he meets that inn keepers daughter 🤢
Ooooo thats a bit dark Joe 😂 apt though 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
Real quick answer. The Mountain was a dummy who thought he could do whatever he wanted cause hes so big but Ramsay fkn enjoys torture and hunting girls through the forest. So the Answer is pretty simple Ramsay.
Maybe for the show versions. Gregor in the book however is pretty capable of matching Ramsey on the messed up front 😂
Ramsay is actually my favorite. Hes actually kinda funny and i see him as karma. Screw Theon he deserved what he got. Sansa.........nope not gonna say anything bout that.
There was room for Ramsey to a darker side of justice, but GRRM loves him some sadism too much 😂
Whos worse? cersei or Joffrey?
Locked up with either the mountain or ramsey. Is that even a question? lol
I think everyone's under the impression Ramseys going to try and take them head on and unarmed 😂 and not lead them into a trap or trick them into thinking hes someone else like he did with Theon and subjecting them to torture. I should have probably made that more clear in the video in fairness 😂 -Liam
Again i ask for worst father in law.
We have a big list of everyone's suggestions my friend, yours was also added and im sure we'll get to it one day :) we're likely going to take a little break from these VS/comparison vids for the time being as they are quite time consuming to produce (this one was actually meant to be our Halloween special for last year 😂) thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips I understand that. I just figured I'd only ask for it at this moment as your not flooded with hundreds of comments
@@fightingmedialounge519 Absolutely! We love suggestions, its how the channel grows! We check our comments on most videos regularly but yeah getting in early on the newest vid is always a good way to make sure we see it!
How about hows more arrogant in the start and has the best Charakter akr in the series and books. Theon ore Jamie.
I honestly think that you ignored something in the final catagory scale. Ramsey's simgle actions are worse then Gregors, but Gregor commit them to a much larger scale. Gregor is large responsible for the horrific war crimes of the Lannister army in the Riverlands. Gregor wiped out dozens of towns and slaughtered thousands. Ramsey's actions might be more evil on their own, but Gregor commit his to way more people which I think out ways Ramsey.
Great points debater! Kind of reminded me of the trolly debate with alterations. Is it better for one person to suffer inexplicable agony or many people to suffer but to a lesser degree (at least compared to what Ramsey would do to them) thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips My grammer sucks lmao
It depends if I'm trapped. I'd merk Ramsey 1v1, but if I'm held captive, then the mountain easily, screw being reek 3
So I did in the script basically say that Ramsey and Greg wouldn't just run at you unarmed and you don't know where they are or what they look like, but we cut that section for pacing reasons. But basically the premise is your locked in with one and you don't know where they are or what they look like and you've got to survive. Lots of people picking Ramsey cos they think it'll be a 1v1 unarmed fight, tbh I'd rather have Greg who I could at the very least feasibly outwit and hide from 😂 thanks for watching as usual Josh! Liam
@TheFandomeClips ah right, thank you for the clarification, armed or unarmed. I prefer M chances with Ramsey if I don't get tricked, but I'm pretty sure the book version does look quite dodgy anyway, and the idea of hearing the mountain roaring in the background and seeing him charge through corridors is terrifying but I do see your perspective, some amazing videos too by the way! Love the GOT content!
Ramsey without doubt is more evil. Ramsey revels in the pain and suffering of those under his heel. Gregor is just extremely impulsive and destructive.
Still, not sure id like to trapped in a room with a bored Gregor 😂 but your right, I think its that sadism that just makes Ramsey that bit more twisted! Thanks for watching Niko! Liam
*Who's the worst. Sorry to be that guy.
I agree. Ramsay is worst.
Could The mountain kill a Belrog?
I don't think the Balrog would even waste the effort to kill him in all honesty 😂
@@TheFandomeClips you know you want to. do a lord of the rings character vs Game of thrones character. And see who would win the fight.. :) I know you want to.... Also do that Joffrey video. I want to see The sweet satisfaction of you comparing Joffrey to characters who will kick his can good
Seeing as the Mountain’s basically the physicality of a Numenorean without any of the spiritual perks? Not even close.
If the Balrog were sleeping in corporeal form, and just ignored Gregor while he delivered blow after blow, he may eventually hit somewhere hard enough to piss it off, and then he would be instantly incinerated.
Clegane easy
Congratulations 👏 👏 👏 your the first commenter to take Clegaines side in this most vile of match ups! Thanks for watching! Liam
. . .
First!
And to you go the glory and spoils! 😂 Thanks for watching! Liam
book Euron is worse than both
Book Euron makes Ramsey look like babys first sociopath by comparison 😂 we had to make it a somewhat debatable match up mate 😂 thanks for watching alpacamaster! Liam
Weak premise for a GoT video. Basically “do you want a quick death in battle or do you want to be tortured slowly?”
I wouldn't exactly call what happened to Vargo Hoat or those prisoners with the hot bucket and rats quick 😂 while he may not revel in the sadism as much as Ramsey seems to, he's capable of equally messed up shit 😂
gregor is just misunderstood, it’s the headaches
😂 he's a Teddy bear really