5 Characters D&D RUINED in Game of Thrones
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- Just how badly did D&D ruin some of our favourite characters in Game of Thrones?
00:00 Intro
01:06 Honourable Mentions
02:08 Now It Begins.
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tldw: guy yells at a microphone for 16 minutes about 5 year old content.
Automatic reply: Comment too boring and predictable to warrant personal response 😴
@@TheFandomeClipsThere are still new fans like me , and the show was longer than 5 years , and it was #1 at the time , and is one of the few or maybe the last case în history were a show out run the books ( and the author give up on his work )
tl;dr: thousands arrive to watch guy yell at a microphone for 16 minutes about 5 year old content
@@j.c.jeggis1818 At least we are not making a war in the comment section like politica streamers
Yes, because everything becomes irrelevant after less than five years
I like how they rushed through it to start their next job, and lost their next job for rushing through it
Justice, almost like Mannis got even from beyond the grave 😂 Thanks for watching Drourkey! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips That's because hard truths cut both ways.
Justice for what they did to the Mannis, I’d say.
@@TheFandomeClips
“The usurper, David Benioff. The usurper, DB Weiss.”
Same brother
I expect nothing but calm, rational discourse in this comment section and a strict adherence to knightly virtues.
😂 I expect you to hold everyone to those knightly values of chivalry good Ser! Thanks for watching as always my good Breton! Liam
Doran was done so dirty. He went from being a competent schemer to just an old man with no ability to control the sand snakes. He had them imprisoned to prevent them from starting a war and then got them to agree to join his plot. I'm still so bitter about how he was handled. Doran and Arianne had such an interesting relationship that would've been amazing to watch.
Oh god, Done dirty can't even cut it, we saved Doran for a follow up if this vid does well, as we like to give each character a decent length explanation on why they're done dirty and he needs a similar amount of time that Stannis got in this one. Thanks for watching Pesky! Liam
They mentioned the Dorne characters sort of have to be left out of this list because they’re so different from the books they don’t quite count since the set-up was never in the show to get ruined later on haha
after that amazing casting too....
Dorne dirty
Oh to make it worse for Doran … they cast Siddig in the role! I mean back at the end of S4 when the show was good and they announced him there was much rejoicing. A great character and an amazing actor for him, and what we got was basically a glorified cameo.
Just thinking about what could have been (silently weeps)
The fact they could’ve had like 10 seasons maybe more as GRRM wrote a scripts for them but they just wanted to move on and did Dany’s madness in the span of like 3 episodes, even all the actors didn’t like season 8 and I don’t blame them, just wish they would’ve done more seasons and not rushed it
I'm sure George said somewhere that at least 13-14 seasons were needed to do the story justice, and to be honest I can believe that. Thanks for watching richiebob as always! Liam
Sir Barristan the Bold, the way they wrote him out destroyed his character.
The knight that single-handedly rescued the King from Duskendale, Unarmed and unarmoured. The man that defeated the Titan's Bastard with a stick. The boy who entered a tourney as a mystery knight at age 10. The man that knew he could cut through the 5 Kings Guard in a room filled with several dozen gold-cloaks and Lannister guards and the Hound like carving a cake.
Yea that guy is killed by 5 peasants with pocket knives.
😂 so true Johnny! I understand WHY they wrote him out but HOW they wrote him out was a god dam travesty. Thanks for watching as always! Liam
They absolutely butchered Barristan no pun intended. His arc in a Dance with Dragons is so badass. Knight noir ending with an impressive duel. Could’ve been so amazing on screen.
I really think Wyman Manderly needed to be on the top ten as well as the Smalljon. It drives me absolutely insane that in the books the Smalljon literally dies protecting Robb from the freys and in the show he brutally kills Shaggydog and makes friends with the ramsey against the starks! For Wyman, in the books he cooks freys in pies and openly insults them while planning to rescue rickon from skagos, as opposed to the show which makes him a fat buffoon who only helps the starks because an eleven year old girl told him to.
Anyway, really enjoy the video and your channel as a whole!
Those are some great picks!certainly worthy of inclusion in the inevitable sequels we do 😂 I would have liked a bit more from Manderly, I know they wanted Arya to be the Freys reckoning but would have been neat if he'd maybe helped Arya get access to the Freys or something. I agree with regarding Small Jon too, I was about 99 percent sure he was playing the long con and going to betray Ramsey at the battle of the bastards (possibly even saving Rickon) but no he's just a dumb villain 🙄 Thanks for the kind words and thanks for watching! Liam
"Foes and false friends are all around me, Lord Davos, they infest my City. [...] But the Mummer's Farce is almost over, my son is home."
@@alek7998literally my favorite chapter in ADOD
@@InirectionlayerMy second favourite chapter in the whole of ASOIAF for me. The only thing that passes it is 'Few of the birds that Maester Aemon had sent off had returned as yet. One reached Stannis, though. One found Dragonstone, and a king who still cared' in ASOS
It hurts me that he was barely more than a glorified cameo in the show- when we _could_ have had someone like Ian McNeice absolutely *kill* in the role with his awesome 'Mummer's Farce' monologue...
Stannis will forever be the Mannis. Stephen Dillane’s portrayal was perfect, perhaps *because* of his professional indifference. He did his duty.
The usurpers D and D earned just punishment for their treason by becoming personas non grata.
Thats very true warlord. I think Stephen was awesome with what he was given, my sadness is he could have been given so much more.
Thanks for watching as always! Liam
That editor's note at 7:40 😂👏🏾
I love it anytime someone dunks on Benioff & Weiss!
Yes lad! 😂😂 - Thom
I knew Stannis would have a different ending in the books but I never realize just how many differences there were between him in the show and books. I loved Stannis for most of the show (besides some obvious moments) so I’m pretty hyped for Book Stannis since I’m almost on book 2! Great video again guys!
Stannis has one of the most beautiful monologues that was sadly cut from the show. You’ll love it
@@behurastudio Is it the one wear he talks about winning the throne to save the kingdom and vice versa?
Hey SW Danger! Aye your in for a treat! You'll finally get why book readers call him mannis 😂 Liam
@@11bluekitkats no it involves a fruit is all I’ll say
@@behurastudio I think I very vaguely know it’s gottta be when Renly has a conversation with Stannis where he offers him a peach and Stannis looks back on it and talks to Davo’s about it.
Mostly Show fan, but I loved Stannis.
I view him as Ned Stark 2.0. The honor of Ned but the ruthlessness to get shit done. Yes that means he sometimes goes too far, but it's game of thrones, if Ned was a bit more ruthless he'd still be alive.
And I took the music less as "evil" and more as again "ruthless." Where Ned's music was more somber, Stannis' music illustrated he is not gonna fuck around.
What he did to his daughter.... yeah even by wartime ruthlessness that was unforgivable and 1000% out of character for how the SHOW depicted Stannis (worst than Dany's turn). So I would say that's where they did the Mannis dirty, prior to that he was pretty awesome.
If you love Show Stannis check him out in the books, he's so much more boss, got some amazing one liners too. I don't mind show Stannis at all its just when he's put next to his book counterpart he loses so much of his shine. Though admittedly there are some amazing show only moments with him like his scene with Shireen that are brilliant.
Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips I firmly believe Mellisandre will burn Shireen in the books but not with Stannis's blessing
Imo they should have been sent on a vacation trip to the Dreadfort for what they did to Stannis.
Here here! The Lord of Light will have his due! 🔥 Thanks for watching! Liam
I quit the show when I heard about the character assassination of Stannis. The last episode I've seen was Hardhome (after skipping the Sansa/Ramsay bullshit too). After that I just read comedy recaps.
@@akechijubeimitsuhide Oh the way they screwed up both Sansa and Arya also deserves mention. And Littlefinger. Not to mention how they messed up Rob as well by making his marriage a straight love story. Basically any time they did something major differently to the book it made things worse.
@@neodigremoAlso: Olly exists
They fucking ruined it
I've always taken the Stannis theme as a fitting one because his story is still dark, filled with sacrifice and tragedy. It also doubles as the Lord of Light's theme so it fits in that regard as well.
I think that's the beauty of music, its art and therefore open to interpretation
As someone who studied music and pyschology for their masters (and I mainly looked at how music can be used to reinforce influence) i do however think the Stannis/The LoL theme says a lot about the show runners intentions with him and how they painted him to Dwadji
Starks theme- Heroic and Melancholy
Bobby's theme- Kingly and grand
Danys theme- Hopeful but with a dark dip at the end
Lannisters- Sinister theme but in the guise of a lullaby delivery
Everyone else's theme just hits my ears as right for their characters, but Stannis hits me as Dark, Menacing and Sinister, there's no hint of melancholy, or heroic rise anywhere, it just screams Villain at me when I hear it and honestly to me its screams "I'm the worst one of the bunch" 😂 but its just my opinion of course and yours is just as valid as mine, thanks for watching Hyper! Liam
Stannis' wrath will be unleashed on the Boltons in the books! Can't wait until it finally arrives, atleast I hope it ever does...
You mentioned Stannis' rather dark, villanous themes in the show: What I really found interessting in the show is the scene where He and his whole army departed Castle Black. In this scene, a heroic version of Stannis' theme was played, implying he is doing the right thing, with marching onto Winterfell to liberate it from the Boltons. Back in S4 and S5 people where hyped for the Mannis, only for him to end up like he did at the end.
I can link the theme here, as it never was released sadly. ruclips.net/video/DUal5CS4ows/видео.htmlsi=dXz9amdfw1Y-zUbX
I really love all his themes in the show, they were so fucking badass and it seems Ramin Djawadi was the only one understanding the character, more or less.
The Wars To Come theme, where the Boltons charged Stannis' army is my personal favorite, not the writing behind it, but the theme itself. It would be so much more epic if Stannis' would charge the Boltons to this theme instead.
See i think Diawadi nailed the character in terms of how the show runner wanted to paint him but I think his theme is a little off for the book version, a bit too dark and evil sounding for my tastes. Amazing piece of music in its own right though.
We can only hope and prey to the Lord of light that GRRM blesses us with at least winds.
Thanks for watching as usual Rob! Liam
Where’s my boy Petyr Baelish? The guy was a master schemer in the books and was alright until season 4. Then season 5 came and they totally destroyed his character to a point where it wasn’t redeemable by giving Sansa to the Boltons
We need a number 1 pick for the inevitable sequel to this vid mate 😂 didn't want to blow our load in one go. Thanks for watching! Liam
Justice For the People's Hero
Totally agree on Tyrion. I don't even hate the fact they made him more of a straight up good guy (despite how interesting his moral decline is in the books). It's the fact they made him an imbecile, whose only real plot impact after Season 4 is giving terrible advice so D&D can make their contrived story beats happen. He was arguably the best written character, so when the writing declined it's no surprise he suffered the most.
Amen Toby, the little guy deserved so much better! Thanks for watching! Liam
Varys “tripped a little”! My dude, he not only tripped but fell head first down several staircases, off several mountains, into at least 7 volcanoes and landed squarely in Drogons mouth.
😂😂😂 point is he was pretty solid throughout most of the show and like Jon only got thrown in the crapper at season 7-8 😂 I like your analogy though Michael pretty spot on! Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips haha yeah your reasoning is spot on, the Varys thing just annoys me more than most. Love your channel btw! Every time I think I’m over season 7 and 8, these videos remind me that the pain will never be burnt away by dragon fire, unlike some 😂
Well they deleted his back story and motivations for some reason then realized SHIT Griffgon is end game!' And had to shoe horn bullshit to finish Danys arc
With so many things dropped and ruining characters stories it's easy to fill a list like this but I like your picks and the reasons behind them as an honourable mention I feel Little finger also got shafted, a bunch of his plans start making no sense like giving Sansa away who he is supposed to love and at his "trial" doesn't even try to put up a defence when their evidence are made of dreams and Sansa saying the opposite of what she swore was the truth before.
Hey Kyle always good to see you in the comments. Oh don't worry Littlefinger wasn't forgotten we just need a number 1 pick if we decide to make a follow up video 😂 thanks for the kind words and thanks for watching! Liam
Five?!
We are fond of sequels David 😂 thanks for watching as always! Liam
Little finger. And sir barriston for me
We held off on little finger because we like sequels and that sequel will need a number 1 pick shafted as bad as Stannis 😂 agree on ser barristan as well though! Thanks for watching Karl! Liam
The most disappointing thing is that D&D considered themselves true fans of the books and had the nerve to serve up the abomination of seasons 7-8, destroying everyone’s characters along the way and cutting every story short because they couldn’t be bothered anymore.
No true fans could have allowed those endings for those characters. I know that GRRM gave them an outline of where things go and people often use that as a defence for them, but people also seem to omit the part where GRRM said they would need 13-14 seasons to realise the story properly, and if it had to be condensed the absolute minimum was 10, and I'm betting that's 10 seasons with 10 episodes 😂 Thanks for watching Christian! Liam
Man I hate how they ruined our Mannis 😢
They made it all about themselves. They wanted to end the show to run to disney contracts. Not really caring about how they were rushing such a great story and not caring about all the other people who worked on the show.
Very disgraceful that this will always be their legacy, and they'll never be able to take it back.
Too true my good Kingslayer, what they did to you was a travesty. Thanks for watching! Liam
I mean, the Night King is built up as a huge threat in both the books and the TV show, so yes, he was done dirty but let's wait to see how George handles it.
The Night King doesn't exist in the books my friend, he's a show only creation so he couldn't fit our criteria. We were only judging characters who jumped from page to screen.
Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips if anything a lot of Lore points to a Night Queen
The Yi Tish Maiden of Light who turned her back on the world
The Female Other who seduced the 13th Lord Commander
The Pale Woman who made Lord of Sorrows by kissing a statue and bringing it to life
And if there is a Night King in the books....
It's probably Jon
@@TheFandomeClips he might be a show only creation but I'm pretty sure there's something or someone commanding the others. Maybe the night king is d&ds take on that idea, and if it is true that something is controlling or commanding the others it must be a huge threat and having Arya jump out in a peekaboo attack is stupid.
I would a minor honorable mention is the small jon umber he was a minor character but still to have die loyally in the books and make a traitor in the show was horrible.
Small jon got shafted massively, I was almost positive he was pulling a long con on Ramsey, but as soon as Rickon felt that arrow I was like I guess he is just another Dnd casualtiy. Thanks for watching my good baron! Liam
Great content as always keep up the great work
Thanks for the continued support Connor! We appreciate you tuning in every time! Thanks for watching! Liam
THE NIGHT KINGGGGGGGG!!!!!!
THE NIGHT KING !!
Did not appear in the books (at least so far) so he couldn't meet our criteria 😂 thanks for watching as always! Liam
Most ruined character is JON but honestly i am seeing the first person who agrees with me that it wasn't all of the sudden madness that happened to Danny in season 8 but she getting mad from time to time from season 2
She was always intended to be a villain i feel. But an extremely well written one. Thanks for watching! Liam
What saddens me is that the show-only watchers will forever think of Stannis as a daughter-murdering fanatic. D&D really threw their writing credentials out of the window from Season 5 onward. They basically sacrificed the story's most important themes for a bit of cheap fan-service. Total sellouts.
You say Varys is immune because he was only stupid at the end but he became a completely nothing character as soon as season 5 episode 1 started. It was so massively apparent that the dumb dumber had no idea how to write a character that's clever. They resort to cock jokes immediately lmao
😂 I dunno he had some moments in S5 and 6 like how he dealt with the Harpies, but I agree the cock jokes when from a bit of witty banter to his whole character 😆 Thanks for watching Gazza! Liam
I hit the like button based on the title alone, but I wished I could have hit it twice when you mentioned Euron. That man is a walking nightmare in the books, and they turned him into a goddamn cartoon.
Jamie didn't kill the Mad King for the people of King's Landing. He did it because he was told to go kill Tywin.
I would have Jamie as being the most hard done by. Seriously the way his whole arc was just "Ctrl, alt Delete" 3 episodes before the end was horrible. Stannis deformation was much slower and more generalised so it stands out a bit less and like Euron it was bad from near the start.
Jamie WAS going in the right direction, but they screwed it up by throwing it 180 around at the end.
I also agree with you that Dany was always going to be the mad Queen, but the rush of the last 2 seasons (combined with the slow as balls waste of time on pointless crap like 6 minutes of Dany walking into Dragonstone) and the magically appearing romance with Jon based on............ based on....... well they are both hot I guess....... yeah they ruined her arc with the rush.
She honestly could have been one of the most iconic Villains in fiction had they not rushed it along how they did 😂 we'll have to agree to disagree on Jaime over Stannis mate, at least Jaime got his moments in through most of the show, but I get your point about it been Ctrl alt delete, wish I'd worded it that way instead of my sweater analogy 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Welcome. And Stannis is a worthy first pick for me, it's just the last minute betrayal of the one character they hadn't bollocksed up too badly... it cuts deep for me.
9:43 he was a better Euron Greyjoy in the uncharted post credit scene 😭😭😭
😂
I'd argue little finger beats out stannis just by virtue of his ambitions being diseregarded and his bizzare decisions character wise being more questionable.
We didn't forget Littlefinger my friend, but if our channel history is anything to go by we like sequels and we need a number 1 pick for the follow up 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
At least Stannis' final line in the show was on brand. "Go on, do your duty."
Now that is quite true! I guess we should be grateful that the DnD hatred didn't have him become one of Ramseys play things or begging for his life like a bitch 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips ❤️❤️ love your content thanks for making it
Can you do differences in the books vs show
Hi Mike! As much as we'd like to there is already two amazing channels that cover this and as much as it can't be avoided sometimes we try to avoid treading on other channels toes. We're not saying we won't do it in the future, but we need to make sure we can bring something new and fresh to the idea first 💡 in the meantime I'd highly recommend Alt shift x and Videobooks, both those guys have covered that topic extensively and are really great channels! Thanks for watching! Liam
I know it's not going to happen but I'd like Jamie & Brien to settle down and open a school for squires/knights.
Greatly enjoyed your list!
Thanks Cara! Liam
Excellent Video as always.
The Tyrion point bugs me know end. It is the major point for Tyrion.
Thanks Rob! Yeah, he had no reason to help Dany other than "something to do i suppose" in the show, at least that's how I felt l. With the book accurate goodbye, vengeance becomes his motivator. Thanks for watching as always Robert, we appreciate you always stopping by! Liam
Stannis is not the Mannis. He’s a fool who allowed himself to be corrupted by the pipe dream of being a potential prophetic being.
I'm loathe to actually defend the two of them, but I think it's worth considering that this WAS an adaptation of a George RR Martin story. Chances are we were never going to get an ending that left us satisfied or happy 😅
Oh for sure Jeremy but I don't think anyone would dispute that they could have done so much better with some characters 😂 thanks for coming through as always matey! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Yeah, even my willingness to play devils advocate has its limits 😅
I honestly think Dany's madness Arc was the biggest mistake of the entire series; it may have been hinted at but that's not justification to go with it nor is it a good story idea. Reasons for this is that it invalidates all the positive actions Dany takes over the course of the story and basically gives validation to the lie of Targaryen Madness: I say its a lie as really of the Targaryens only three were practically insane those being Baelor the Blessed who was insane and decided to try and pull a Jesus and fast for 40 days and 40 nights dying from dehydration not to mention locked his sisters in what was called the Maiden Vault and destroyed a LOT of books in mad zeal, the other two are Aurion Brightflame whose insanity was he thought drinking Wildfire would turn him into a Dragon it didn't and killed him and the last being Aerys a guy who driven insane by a number of factors and if Robert's Rebellion hadn't happened would have been deposed by his son. But really the issue is that it basically throws away a LOT of character growth, fulfills the lie that children are liable to inherit the bad traits of their parents which is ANYTHING but true, and basically destroys one of the two characters that the audience likes consistently.
This is without saying that the execution of this was literally Dumb and Dumber contriving BS to drive her insane by destroying her support network of people that helped balance her negative aspects which by the way would drive anyone nuts which by the way is just another reason that the entire idea should have been scrapped if you cannot execute it properly. The fact is if all of her main consulars, friends and people that she cared for survived and stayed supportive of her and didn't either die or betray her she'd have never gone nuts. Point being just because someone has the traits to go nuts doesn't mean they will if they have the right people around them to keep them stable, healthy and happy. By the end of the show I personally HATED every character left standing especially Bran because they let this entire thing happen when it could have been prevented in so many ways. If the only way to drive someone insane is to destroy everything they lived for then that is basically bad writing especially considering the sheer AMOUNT of BS they had to do to make it happen all of which could be averted by common sense.
Point being I HATE the Dany Madness concept on the grounds that in order to pull it off you have to basically drive her insane by destroying everything she cares for which would drive almost any person insane in some form. Really I HATE it because it sends out a negative message and ruins the entire story. Seriously Season 8 would have been BEST for the sake of character development not having Dany go nuts and have Jon stay together with her from a narrative standpoint is it too good potentially but its bittersweet because neither of the two are getting to return to the way their lives were before all of this and both have to live the rest of their lives with the cost of all their actions.
Really the main issue of Season 8 is that it just is NOT bittersweet in it's ending, its all bitter with zero sweetness and seems to have embraced nihilism to an extreme degree. But really the big problem is that it is completely unsatisfying this video exists primarily due to how shit the ending was if they had played it safe and stuck to what made sense from a realism standpoint and a needed writing standpoint it would have been satisfying for the majority of viewers: also the madness arc is completely unneeded as were a good amount of the deaths of Season 8 in fact there are only three characters that I'd say needed to die: the Night's King unless we are going with the Others win in the end but since we're not he needs to die, Cersei because she is truly insane, and Euron because leaving that monster alive is sure to cause problems in the future but other then those three the rest of the cast did NOT need to die, any of the deaths at Winterfell could have been generics sure it wouldn't have the same impact but lets be fair by this point the story has killed enough secondary characters and main characters to fill three graveyards and six times as many nobodies, whats a few more nobodies to the death toll as it is both fiction and statistics.
Sure would the ending have peeved off some people YEAH but not the majority of the fanbase just the 3rd that thought the ending was fine. The best way to end a story is on a high note because at the end of the day real life is a pain in the ass we want to escape from and we consume media to feel better about ourselves, the worst thing a story-teller can do is make the audience feel worse about themselves and angry at the story-teller. In fact this ending will likely be retconned before the end of the decade and when it is goodbye and good riddance, treat it as a nightmare. Because really its a reflection of modern society worst problem that being nihilistic and stupid writers that want to ruin good entertainment for those that consume it.
Moral of all this I REALLY HATE the idea that we can't end a story on a note that is too satisfying for the audience, we should try to end things in a way that is most satisfying possible and makes sense with how the story is unfolding no 180s at the last minute and if you kill your end-game villain you do so at the end not in the middle of the final act and then have to create a new villain out of somebody who really isn't one sure Dany has done some questionable things but are they anymore questionable then those of a lot of other people I mean Bran fricking mind-broke a human being whom he treated as a disposible human shield to escape in Hoder yet he's still alive at the end of this? Arya murdered numerous people in cold-blood granted a fair number of them had it coming but still cold blooded murder and an assassin still alive by the end. Sansa helped Baelish murder her own aunt and yeah Lysa is a psycho bitch but still she helped murder her own family then basically withheld the knowledge of the Knights of the Vale from Jon causing people that may have not died in the Battle of the Bastards to die by holding those forces back, then she basically betrays Jon's trust and causes a massive unneeded Civil War; there is a reason she is called the Bitch of the North by a number of fans myself included, show Sansa horrible yet still alive. Point of it all none of this was satisfying in anyway.
Also I may have focused on Dany but it applies just as hard to Jaime and Stannis, especially Jaime who had his arc resolved in a satisfying way he had moved on and was ready to live a normal life for once in his life without having to deal with his twin bitch of a sister but they threw it all away in the worst episode of the season. And Stannis well yeah done so dirty that its not fair to the Mannis one bit or to anyone else. But you know who was also screwed over the most Ser Barristan Selmy how dare dumb and dumber kill the best fighter in the setting with some generic enemies who really would not stand a chance against him in any circumstances, this a guy that killed his way thru Duskendell to rescue King Aerys from Lord Darklyn by himself and killed Maelys the Monstrous a giant and monster of man that was a force to be reckoned with in single-combat no way are you going to convince me he died to generics.
Honestly the best policy is to treat the show as if it ends after Season 4 and was tragically canceled and replaced by a horror from another twisted universe that's my method and I'm liable to write my own fanfic to fix everything. just to have things make sense.
I wouldn't say it gives into the lie of targaryian madness considering jon doesn't go mad himself. Showing it's more about the individual than the line.
@@fightingmedialounge519 To which I reply in what reality would Dany go insane if she had her support network intact: she was mental fine up until writing BS killed the people in or turned people against her. Essentially it defies conventional logic and basic writing common sense. Look you have a perfectly suitable endgame threat in the Night King if you kill him off and with him the Army of the Dead then its story over you didn't see any of the fellowship turning bad because Sauron was defeated, at most Cersei is like Saruman during the Scouring of the Shire only capable of influencing groups of people with similar morals who end up being defeated once normal people get the right leadership and eventually get killed by those that they treated the worst. Here is how you handle things in a way that makes narrative sense or at least without me having to go back to Season 4 and fixing the writing from beyond it because that's were things started to stop making sense.
Anyway let me give you a sumarized way of ending things: First off we don't reveal Jon's parentage to him in a way that causes him to behave irrationally in fact lets scrap the whole problem with incest entirely his grandmother was his father's second cousin, the Starks have married each other before in the past in fact lets not have him get much time to worry about this as the White Walkers will arrive right after this has been revealed to him so now he has to deal with them
Now for the sake of logic we'll have them not deploy their defenses in a stupid way that ignores tactics so artillery stays behind the walls along with the entire military force we don't ignore fortifcations we use them and the Dothraki don't go charging to their doom and they get some reinforcements from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms so we have a good amount of forces, then using tactics like artillery targeting the undead giants, using the Dothraki to skirmish lure wights off away from Winterfell to be blasted by dragon strikes from Dany on Drogan along with firepits and a host of other preperations to weaken the horde and thus isolate the White Walkers from the rest of the host, Jon kills the Night King because we all know Arya killing him was stupid; perhaps dying in the attempt but if he does we have Beric use the last kiss on him and if not we have him use it to bring back Viserion from the dead because if we are going to stick it to bad writing we'll stick it here as the whole going to get a wight to prove the threat to Cersei was a waste of time.
There big threat over; Jon can come to terms with this by talking to Dany; Dany's would logically be happy to find out she wasn't the last Targaryen and would be non-plused with the whole incest thing: Targargyens be Targaryens, but they keep it a secret. Then this leaves Cersei basically like Saruman in the Shire, we avoid her shenigans with basic logic: first march the entire force to King's Landing by the Neck to the Riverlands no navy adventures: speaking of Euron being logical does not back Cersei and instead returns to the Iron Islands because if he has half the brain of his book counterpart he'd leave Cersei to die, also Golden Company will not fight for Cersei as they would refuse on the grounds of her reputation as they are one of the only sellsword companies that have a code of honor and honestly unless she offer them their ancestral lands back which they would know she's not in the position to offer they would refuse her offer on principle and practicality.
So realistically Cersei only has the troops in King's Landing, Dany and Jon keep all hands close and up security because everyone knows Cersei may try some shit, Jaime volunteers to go in and confront her which being Cersei she'd be stupid to allow him to do so she'd try to seduce him only for him to strangle her just like Maggy the Frog said would happen. There King's Landing is free Jon and Dany can do whatever they please likely restructing the entire Seven Kingdoms into- something that makes more sense then the trainwreck they came up with at the end of the series skip a year and Jon and Dany have children, Westeros is rebuilding and sanity has returned.
There story over ending fixed: yeah does it sound a bit less bloody? True but I'm being realistic while Dany may have some traits that could result in her going crazy if her support network stays intact and people don't backstab her and drive her insane she stays sane. We don't need anymore random last minute twists we need an ending that is believable, bittersweet and satisfying. Where is the bitter in all this? Well the sheer amount of people that died due to the entire thing all those that died due to the actions of a select few people all of whom are dead: Littlefinger is dead, all Five of the Five Kings are dead, Ned Stark is dead, Catelyn is dead, entire houses have gone extinct the great houses of Westeros are down to very few members left, to say nothing of the many dead that aren't counted the ordinary people that die in wars. But with that bitter truth comes a sweet thing that all the war and suffering is over and things can be rebuilt for a better future, we've got capable minds and hands able to rebuild a fractured realm and we can let the future be focused on that.
@@jedinathan you can't really claim it defies conventional logic while also acknowledging she does have a reason to go insane and that you don't think she would have without that impetuous. Actually there was still quite a bit of chaos to deal with after saurons defeat (and frodo pretty much did turn heel before the ring was destroyed). She's more like one of the grand moffs from the empire.
How Jon's parentage was revealed doesn't really impact how he reacted. Also having family who's OK with something doesn't inherently mean he would be as well(this is shown multiple instances throughout the show and books). Some good suggestions there, the rest of the seven kingdoms helping doesn't actually work.
Yeah, I doubt the whites could be lured away in that fashion. Jon killing the night king doesn't work for a different yet similar reason as to arya( where her doing it has zero narrative impact do to her having no connection to this storyline before hand and only works in the most speculative way; jon doing it has shallow gratification but goes againts how this series likes to handle death). Nothing suggest the lord of lights resurrect animals, and also the lords kiss wasn't established in the show. I don't think a March would be exactly possible in the army's condition. Makes sense for euron to do, but this the same guy who openly admitted to killing his brother so logical isn't really his style. Also the show never established the golden company as being that honorable so you're going to have to go further back to establish that. Maggys prophecy in the show doesn't mention the valenquor. Also jamie only has one hand so no strangulation. That's sweet but not ASOIF style(and given the other political isssues danereys brings definitely isn't happening).
More so the story catered to your liking. It actually sounds like you're ignoring details just to get the ending you want, so not that realistic. There's virtually nothing bitter about your ending. On that note i think you're being too hyperbolic when you claim the shows ending was only bitter. Several characters had overtly happy endings. The only way it would be just bitter to you is if you looked a selective group and judged them based on the ending you wanted. Except all of that happened before the ending, so by definition the ending wouldn't be bitter sweet. Do you know what that word means?
@@fightingmedialounge519 I do know what the word means and the word bittersweet does NOT describe the tragic shitshow that was Season 8. A real bittersweet ending is that of the Lord of the Rings which incidentally is one of the main inspirations for ASOIF. It has a bittersweet ending in both its original source material and the films based off of it: Sauron the major threat is defeated but at great cost, the Elves leave Middle-Earth, Frodo is never able to fully heal from the wound by the Witch-King and has to leave Middle-Earth behind and sails west to Valenor, by the way the Shire that he grew up in was ravaged by Saruman and his band in his absence and he had led a Hobbit rebellion to defeat it and even though the Shire rebuilds and much of the damage is undone the Shire Frodo grew up can't be returned to, both because it was in part decimated by Saruman but also because his Morgul wound prevented him from staying in Middle-Earth.
Yet here is the thing at the end of the day Frodo is still alive at the end of the story as is Aragorn and Gandalf and a host of other main and major characters, Sauron is defeated as is Saruman, but the world is now in the Fourth Age the Age of Men where the Elves sail east and leave Middle-Earth with some exceptions the Dwarves delve into their mountain halls and eventually fade out of memory, Hobbits likewise fade and until all that is left is the race of Man to walk Arda until the End of Days the Dagor Dagorath.
See that is a bittersweet ending. But the fact remains that Season 8 of Game of Thrones defies logic but also defies a basic principle of writing that being keeping the story consistant with what has already been established and making narrative sense neither of which applies here: answer me some basic questions where does it make narrative sense for anyone to still be backing Cersei at this point in the story in all honesty she actually should be from a narrative standpoint dead as of Season 7 for the simple reasons that she is utterly insane blew up a major religious landmark along with the religious head and a lot of other people and usurped a throne which she has no legitimate claim to whatsoever, in any normal rational setting everyone in Westeros with a brain would said with Dany to get rid of Cersei ASAP, sure she may be a wildcard but at least she hasn't blown up a major landmark and also from a practical standpoint she has a WAY stronger military and any military minded individual knows its best to side with the faction that has the better military especially if they have living Weapons of Mass Destruction in the form of Dragons.
Secondly in what universe is it smart to take your army to attack by sea where the enemy still has a presence when you have a completely clear land route to march to your target? In no universe does that make any logical sense.
Third point if you have to resort to killing or turning a person's support network against them to cause them to go insane you are being both nihilistic and cruel as a writer.
Fourth point in what universe was there ANY foreshadowing that Arya would kill the Night King? None it was completely came up by Dumb and Dumber because they thought it would be cool not because it made any narrative sense.
Fifth point Dany becoming a villain was completely unnessecary you have a perfectly fine endgame threat in the Night King and the White Walkers there is zero need to create a new enemy at the last moment if the White Walkers are defeated then you resolve to end the story you don't create new threats you resolve character arcs without anymore unneeded deaths.
Sixth point in what reality would it be smart for Euron to actually support Cersei? IF show Euron has half the brain of his book counterpart he'd backstab her and not bring her the Golden Company or help in any manner if this was Book Euron he'd never have thrown in with Cersei to begin with he'd have side with Dany because well he wants her dragons and he also wants her.
In conclusion your entire arguement makes no sense, you are defending shit writing at the end of the day and the majority agree its shit just take a look at public opinion if it was even remotely solid from a writing standpoint you and I would not be having this discussion.
Also my personal revision is operating from what I call necessity writing as in what makes narrative sense and what is needed to achieve the end goal, end goal being to defeat the White Walkers once they are gone its time to rebuild and resolve character arcs and tie up loose ends no need to create any last minute twist villains or have any more unneeded character deaths. At most the only two characters that need to die from a consistant narrative standpoint at this point are the Night King because unless we are letting him win then he has to die and Cersei because she should have honestly been dead a season ago but also because death is the only way her character arc can conclude she'd sooner die then be imprisoned and would take anyone done with her thus she needs because there is no scenario in which she would choose a path that results in her potentially still being alive and she has nothing to live for besides she's the real Mad Queen in all this. But other then these two nobody else has to die: Jon doesn't have to die, Dany doesn't have to die, Missandei doesn't half to die, Jorah doesn't have to die, Rhaegal does not have to die, nobody needs to turn on Dany because she isn't set to be a villain if she were she wouldn't be helping fight the White Walkers would not have risked her dragons, hell she honestly would have probably wouldn't have entertained speaking with Jon yet she did all those things and thus belongs in the camp of hero, is she flawless no but that's fine as she is human at the end of the day, besides what did she do that merited her treatment the way they did and honestly consider the choices she made beforehand and consider what you would do in any of those situations in which you had to make a hard choice, look at things from her perspective and of the perspective of the setting without outside views and really if you have any sort of emotion and heart some of those choices would be ones you'd have made too.
@@jedinathan yeah, I'd say it was more empty. Frodo leaving had more to do with his accumulated trauma not just the witch kind. Yeah, I already acknowledged that by Saying there was still a fair bit of chaos that was handled before the true ending.
OK first, please use more punctuation with all the run on sentences you have. Second, i didn't defined cersei still being in power.
Again, I don't think their army was in a condition to March.
Not what nihilistic means. Literally mentioned the arya choice wasn't a good one so you can direct that question elsewhere. Also it's funny when people insult D&D despite also enjoying several show only scenes.
It being necessary or not depends on the type of story that's being told. You may not like the choice but that's separate from how crucial it is for the narrative.
Quite literally said it wouldn't be smart and instead pointing show euron has been making bad decisions since his second episode, so it would be inconsistent for him to behave intelligently now. Also the show adresseed why he didn't side with her despite that being his initial intention.
I'm defending shit writing by reminding you of certain details and explaining why you're alternative is pretty lackluster itself? So in reality my argument makes perfect sense. You just need to wipe the tears from your eyes and read it. Actually we would be having this argument because several of your issues are purely emotional( such as you not liking even the idea of danereyes becoming a villain).
No, your personal revision constantly ignores what's consistent or makes sense for the sake of forcing the ending you want. Not having to die isn't the same as you don't want them to die. You do understand being a villain doesn't mean you'd be OK with the apocalypse? Her helping with one doesn't dictate the other. Melisandre definitely isn't a hero but her whole motive is stopping the others/white walkers. You know nothing about me so back up a few steps and let's stick to what's relevant. Your suggestions aren't as bad as the official ending, but it comes with its own set of problems while failing to adress several of the issues people have. So you didn't fix the ending. You just made an ending you and like minded people would enjoy. Hell Fandome proves this by saying they want danereys to have a heel turn, so your decisions with her would be critiqued by them the same way you're critiquing the actual ending. Probably a bit more coherent for their version.
Obiwan was done very dirty by the starwars theorists
More than the characters I was liking the world building , but in the show entire kingdoms like Reach, Dorne ,and Vale were reduce to one castle and a few knights
I think Dorne was most hard done by, at least the Vale got their moment during the battle of the Bastards and the Roses got to shine at the Blackwater, poor Dorne was left with chuff all bless them. Thanks for watching Flavius! Liam
In the books, Euron was a fearful pure evil pirate not to be messed with! But D&D turned him into a silly, evil cartoonish Jack Sparrow character in the show!
Jack Sparrow with none of the likablity etheir! 😂 man I always remember when we got confirmation he would make the cut in the show, I was so excited................ man I was foolish 😂
Thanks for watching Jaybird! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Thanks for the post and content👍
Stephan Delaney was solid casting in the looks front? Because he was tall, muscular, mostly bald, with a dark black beard on a square jaw. Broad shouldered and abot 35 years old. Nailed it.
Don't get me wrong, despite it being a plot point that Baratheons are black of hair in season one and yet none of them have black hair, they made the blonde Lannisters brunettes as well. *insert meme, "I guess they just forgot"*
Delaneys sour face and mannerisms were spot on that I can look past the lack of black hair and muscles to be honest 😂 Can't complain about age etheir, everyone got their age screwed with in the show and to be honest it was with good reason. Could you have imagined the outrage if they'd done Rob Wind with the book accurate aged Rob?
I feel the same way about Stannis as I do about Tywin on the looks front, they may not be one to one with their book descriptions but they are how I'd always pictured them in my head (mutton chops and black hair withstanding of course 😂)
Thanks for watching Ashley! Liam
Dumbledore did nothing wrong by screaming at Harry
Hey Hilts great to see you in the comments as always. I look forward to watching you guys back up that statement in one of your upcoming videos 😂 Liam
I stopped watching after season 4. Dumping Stoneheart was questionable enough, but when I realized they weren’t doing Punished Tyrion *and* removed the main reason for Jaime’s development?
The show died with Tywin and went straight to the shitter.
On that we can agree warlord, this video was originally 5 done dirty and 5 done justice, 3 guesses who got the number 1 spot for done justice? (Even my overwhelming Bobby Bias couldn't overpower him) 😂
@@TheFandomeClips
….Tywin?
Strong Belwas got the biggest shaft of them all.
😂
Well he didn't even get brought over from the books to get shafted, I don't know if thats even worse
I mean loads but the worst imo were Tyrion, Jon, Varys, Jaime and Daenerys.
I think Varys and Jon were great for most of it, its only those last 2 seasons they got truly screwed over. Whereas I think Stannis and Dany were mishandled from the start and Tyrion half way through. Thanks for watching! Liam
Book Euron is a whole season arc on its own, I totally agree. GOT writers didn’t organize the seasons well at all. For ex Cut out all the useless nudity and side character sex scenes and you’d have another season worth of time.
The problem is that Daenerys is supposed to want to do good and try to do it .Removing any desire from her to do that destroys any worth of her character .
But making it so she becomes a Monster feels so cliché .A real "Like Father , like Child" .Although George loves cliches , just the nihilistic ones .
That is true, I do believe Dany was always meant to turn and become a villain but well written villains often think they are doing the right thing and that was ripped away from Dany with no explanation whatsoever :/
Thanks for watching oolooo! Liam
Your view of Dany is the exact way I see her.
Thanks Quantrill! I really don't understand the perspective that she was this wholly good person in the beginning. She's way more complex than that!
I’m a show watcher and I love Stannis. I just to not acknowledge that the daughter thing happened.
I think that's why he's the biggest travesty, there's just enough good bits for Stannis along with his casting been great that you think it'll win out over DnDs personal dislike of him, then season 5 hits and you realise you'd been strung along by those bastards the whole time 😂 Thanks for watching Quantrill! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips the thing is, people like Stannis and Tywin Lannister might not be as palatable to modern audiences as someone self righteous like Dany, but they are very good lords in a feudal context. They understand the way the world works and they would bring stability, which would allow ordinary people to thrive.
@@TheFandomeClips great content btw!
The lannisters. Their video done
Lannisters are getting their fair due and a second pass unreal! Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips great vid and you did stannis justice by pointing out how he was butchered
Kinda surprised Robert wasn't nr. 1, given your track record
😂 Mark Addy nailed Robert, hard to put him on a list of ruined characters, originally the video was 5 done dirty and 5 done justice but you'll be shocked to learn Bobby was only number 3 😲 Thanks for watching as always! Liam
Please don’t sacrifice me to the Lord of Light! I’m only halfway through the 2nd book, so it’s hard for me (at this point) to see past him allowing Mel to burn his daughter at the stake in the show….
You are educating yourself on the one true King cara. The Lord of Light shows mercy to those who do so. Do not believe these falsehoods of the pretenders DnD. The one true king will serve them justice soon enough 🔥 Thanks for watching Cara! Liam
Doran Martell!
Oh hes not getting missed in the inevitable sequel, same with a certain lord of the fingers! Thanks watching Muffinman! 🧁 Liam
Because we clearly share a love of Game of Thrones and Lord of the Rings let me ask you something here. Aragorn vs Jaime Lannister, the finest swordsmen alive in Middle Earth according to the word of God, and the greatest swordsmen of all time out of Game of Thrones. The two meet on the field both fully armored and with their regular long swords. Who wins? Who dies?
I think Aragorn takes it pretty handily, but I don't think its the curbstomp that many people think it will be. Aragorns line is a powerful one with a dash of elven blood and a sliver of Maia blood in him and this supposedly gives him an inheritant power greater than regular men (though its subjective as to what this means) some people take it to mean hes superhuman but I don't quite think that's the case, I think he might be a bit mightier physically (so abit stronger, faster and more agile) than regular men but I don't think its to the degree where a peak human like Jaime is totally outmatched.
I think where Aragon really gets Jaime though is experience, Aragorns got 60 odd years experience as a warrior and still has the vitality of youth on his side, he's basically Barristan if Barristan never aged and while the films make Aragorn out to be solely a swordsman the books make a bit more effort to point out that Aragorn is really good at everything martial so he's got that warrior spirit like Jaime.
I also look to their battlefield performance, Jaimes best feat seems to be cutting down between 10-20 men but gassing out, getting his sword stuck in a skull and getting captured, whereas Aragorn repeatedly cuts through literal hoardes of Orcs and barely breaks a sweat it seems. Not to mention they pursue merry and pippin for about 3 days on foot, so Aragorn definitely has the cardio edge.
Then I look at their deadliest foes, Jaimes best fight seems to be surviving the Smiling Knight but not besting him, up against Aragorn who flips the bird to at least 5 of the Nazgul on weather top (a foe Jaime wouldn't even be able to be in presence of) and if we're using both mediums breifly stands his ground against an Olag Hai Troll (another foe i think would flattern Jaime in seconds)
The thing is people always think that the ceiling is limitless when it comes to sword skills but the truth is there's only so much you can do with a sword before you've kind of peaked, there's no magic moves or special techniques in LOTR or GOT, meaning Jaime and Aragorn are likely comparable purely as swordsman.
But my money would be on Aragorn from the experience advantage alone.
Jamie's arc will bring him back to Cersi in the end and not to kill her. It will be incredibly similar to the show if it ever gets written just much better done. Its who he is he will ALWAYS go back to Cersi in the end.
In the books he has totally sworn off her and distanced himself and he does it far far far sooner after his handless return. If we ever get the books and your right i will personally come back to this comment and admit fault but it is without even a shred of doubt in my mind Jaime is on a far different path in the books than he is in the show, he may go back to her but all signs are it will be to kill her. Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips I used to think the same way as you however it just seems much more Martins style to take his character on a redemption arc and have Jamie really change then have something horrible happen (like lady stoneheart killing Briene and Jamie having to put her (Lady Stoneheart) down and the combined acts of Briene dying and Jamie breaking yet another vow (never to take up arms against the Starks and or Tully's again completely breaking Jamie and having him counter stear right back to Cercis Arms him forever accepting himself the king slayer. Sorry if I got a little overboard with the hypothetical scenario but something kinda similar makes a certain poetic sense to me. I have always scene Jamie as this Shakespeareian character doomed to die a tragic death. I feel like Briene/Stoneheart are meant to completely break Jamie and push him over the edge or it could happen a different way and Briene will try to kill Jamie for stoneheart and that will make him snap. He is a fascinating character to me but his story definitely won't end happy. No him and Briene riding in the sunset together sadly. George isn't the type to give Jamie and ending that is not equal parts tragic and poetic it's how he.wrights Jamie's character. (Sorry for any spelling and grammar mistakes) I have fat thumbs and I am typing this on my phone.
The greatest shame of them all. But it matters not. Once The George completes his books, we will see the truth of The One True King. No traitor shall retain their heads. The Boltons will become less than a memory, the Twins will burn. The Lion will cower in fear before the Burning Stag. His light shall come, and Azor Ahai will slay the traitors one by one.
For the night is dark and full of terrors 🔥 Thanks for watching Alek! Liam
Does the Night King count? I think the Night King definitely counts lol. 😂😂
But fr, the Greyjoys are my fav family and they didn’t even have *Patchface (can’t believe I got his name wrong he’s so scary!!) hanging around Storm’s End! Poor bby Shireen was burned at the stake too when she is associated with WATER. MAGIC. in. the. books.
The Night King isn't in the books (at least we haven't met him yet if he is) so he didn't meet the criteria of jumping from page to screen. But just concerning the show? Yeah he got shafted big time, I wanted him to actually win the first few battles
@@TheFandomeClips I was more upset about his origin story tbh like pulling all of the magical aspects out of the show out really hindered it more than helped in the end in my opinion, especially when one of The Big Baddies is basically magic incarnate. The fact that the showrunners refused to paint the Whitewalkers as a species that was given power by a God of Westeros really sucked. 🫤
D and D didn't know what they were doing. Their egos got in the way.
They certainly did expose themselves once GRRM stopped consulting heavily (end of season 4 i believe or start of season 5) and they got to the point where they ran out of books! Thabks for watching as always Shannon! Liam
My lord! I must inform you that I have searched this whole comment section as you commanded but once again found no trace of the Redwyn fleet. It must have been swept away by the currents of lazy writing just like Cinnamon wind was.
😂 well I thank you anyway good Ser, take rest at our Hearth and rest your werey eyes. Thanks for watching! Liam
Was Jayne Poole in the show? ive only listened to the audiobooks. couldn't get into the show bc i heard some of the changes they made.
I was super annoyed penny wasn't in the show at all. She was my favorite female character in the books. Exception perhaps being Mercy (living not Arya's Mercy), With Tyrions changes she wasn't needed at all.
side characters are always done rough in condensed mediums though. Edrich Storm, Garland, Wyllis, and Riccan should have been crazy good.
I don't think she makes it into the show Soupbrain beyond a superficial scene int he pilot of S1.
There are many great omissions. My personal favourite that was missed is Strong Belwas, he would have been hilarious in the show 😂
Thanks for watching as always! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips no!!!!! How could they leave him out? If he is important enough to poison and bring back then he should be important enough to be in the show. *Epiphany light bulb* Barristan has a type archetype for his friends. Arrogant, bossy, and jolly. Long live the best bromances in westeros!
She was a cameo, essentially- I think she might have been in two or three scenes (most prominently, sitting with Sansa at the dinner welcoming the Royal Family to Winterfell) - & Lord Manderley was little more than a glorified cameo- he got just two scenes with any dialogue (the 'White Wolf' bit, & with everyone else proclaiming Jon 'King in the North'); but no 'Mummer's Farce' monologue with Davos- & the Frey Pies was given to Arya.
To think, if they'd cast a brilliant actor like Ian McNeice in the role- he would have absolutely *killed* that monologue...
I really doubt at this stage that GRRM is ever going to finish the books, so, really, the show is the only conclusion we have. Having said that, after the first four seasons, it went downhill fast. I get it that adapting a literary work for stage or screen is never going to be a perfect adaptation - as some things do not translate well to screen, due to financial limitations, etc, etc, and that there are characters and scenes, or even props, (case in point, the Iron Throne. I was hoping for the ugly monstrosity described in the books, instead we got a neat, smooth, compact designer sword chair) that have to be pared back or scrapped altogether, but I feel the show cut out important characters and situations. I was looking forward to Lady Stoneheart - seeing as they'd created the bland, pointless Talisa in place of Jeyne Westerling. I put up with the changes; despite being disappointed, until they started messing up the characters themselves.
I hate what they did to Jaime the most. He had a wonderful redemption arc, which was torn down in the space of less than one episode. And to Daenerys. Her sudden descent into madness made no sense; considering it took quite a few years for her father to reach that stage. As for Stannis - book or show I'm not a fan. I just don't like the Baratheon brothers and, IMO, Robert was an illegitimate king, owing to the manner in which he seized the crown. As far as I'm concerned, Jon Snow (in the show universe, at least) is the rightful king; being as he is the male Targaryen heir, with Dany second in line. I'll never get over creepy Bran ''I can never be lord of anything'' ''you were so beautiful that night'' on the effing throne. 😂😂😂
Dont like Stannis? It's the pyre for you 🔥 😂 but I agree about Bran, anyone but Bran would have been acceptable 😂 thanks for watching Raven! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips It's been cold here the last few days - I welcome the pyre! 🤣🤣 Bran had such a ''good story'' to tell that they forgot about him for one complete season. No hate towards the young actor who portrayed him, but I loathed him since he made that comment to Sansa regarding her abuse. I know it wasn't intentional on the part of the writers, but ''you looked beautiful that night'' seemed to imply that the little s**t got off on seeing his sister brutalised. I like to believe that a few months into his reign, someone slipped Tears of Lys into his drink
I get that you love Stanis but for the life of me I cant understand why. He was always my least favorite character in the whole series.
There is a lot of reasons to like Stannis (Book Version) just like there are reasons to dislike him, that's what makes him so fascinating. Got to remember he hasn't (and isn't actually capable) of burning his daughter in the books since he left her at castle black for safety and also named her his heir, which i think is the moment most would agree is where the show version just lost it for everyone.
I think for most fans its less about "liking" him and more about recognising that he is unequivocally without a shred of the doubt the best person for the throne out of all the options, including Dany and including Jon.
Thanks for watching!
I do strongly concur with making Mace at least an honorable mention. In the books, he never truly struck me as an idiot. And the main reason for that is that a true idiot wouldn't refer to the superior skill and experience of those around him in matters he is less versed in the way Mace continuously does. Ask yourself; when does Mace ever make such a costly blunder that it truly indicates idiocy? He never does. The siege of Storm's End is a good example. He knew when to hold back, played it safe like a true Tyrell should, and as a result came out without it having cost his side anything.
Besides, when you're the son of Olenna and father to Margaery, can you truly be an idiot? He's directly related to arguably the two most intelligent women of his time, and he's in between their generations meaning it could not have continued without him. So Margaery either has the greatest luck in the world to inherit Olenna's genes without Mace's pulling it down, or, and this is more likely; Mace isn't stupid at all and is instead a strong supporter of the Art of War ideology that one should appear strong when they are weak, *and weak when they are strong.*
That said, I also agree that he is outside of the top 5 since despite them kinda shafting his character, they didn't utterly ruin him the way they did with many others, Tyrion being my personal first pick tied with Jon and Arya.
Also, I appreciate that you didn't go the typical easy route of claiming Dany was always this kindhearted sweet thing who only wanted to liberate the poor oppressed, but instead focused on how they rushed that arc. I personally called her the Mad Queen since S1. It was always there. D&D managed to somehow rush it despite having essentially seven seasons of solid build up, but her character wasn't ruined nearly as much as people claim it was. This is a woman who literally got her dragons by burning someone alive. And those saying Miri deserved that really need to learn some damn nuance and backstory, because she definitely didn't, not to mention that especially taking the books into equation, it becomes pretty clear that Miri most likely didn't purposefully kill Dany's child or turn Drogo into a vegetable. Dany was warned to stay out of that tent. Dany was warned it would cost a life. And at the end of the day, even if Miri did do it all on purpose, maybe the tyrannical slavelord whose men raped Miri after butchering all her friends and family, as well as the wife who loved and supported just about all of his ways and was going to birth his child to do the same thing the Dothraki did to Essos and Miri's village to Westeros, all had it coming. Just because people saw them as a power couple doesn't mean they were actually good people. If anything that's a strong and consistent message in George's books. Power doesn't equal good. Mostly it equals the opposite.
Oh look at Dany's face when Drogo says he is going to slaughter his way across Westeros for her. She was hot for him in that moment despite knowing what it would do.
Dany is a masterpiece of a character in the books, we'll no doubt make a video on her arc in the future, but I'm with you "with fire and blood" isn't exactly a peaceful way to gain a kingdom 😂 she was always a villain in the making
Yeah Mace to me strikes me as a Khrushchev type. Buffoon on the surface, but crafty politician underneath. Hated how they buffoon him up similar to Edmure.
Thanks for watching as always man! Liam
I think that show Stannis is great for what he is, and was easily and by far the best part of season 5, and I thought it was a really great ending to his character in the show. Then I saw what we were missing and uh... yeah, I think they definitely ruined book Stannis, and this dude in the show is def no Mannis, but if you pretend that he's not based off the literal GOAT in the books than I think show Stannis is still really interesting. So I don't think he belongs at number one.
Stannis Is the GOAT and he deserves the Thrones the most
Bariston Selmy
Oh god yes, I get WHY they got rid of him, but HOW they got rid of him was a writing crime! Thanks for watching Jake! Liam
Loving the content mate, I can also understand but as you said it’s the way they did it and I’m a bit of a Barristan fan boy so I’m extra salty. But I completely agree with the mannis being number of me
Only 5? How about a list of 5 they didn't ruin? Has to be post season 4, when they stopped using the source material, I challenge you to find any five who weren't turned stupid, campy and/or contradictory to what they were depicted as in the first four seasons...
Totally agree about Dany!!
You know what’s weird no one uses explosives 🧨 even though they exist in Game of thrones bravos has fire works which mean people know how to make a stick of 🧨
Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?
And Moonboy for all i know!!
😂
1:31 Slightly disagree. They're all four made basically into Obara, but much worse and essential interchangeable, and thus superfluous.
Book-Stannis is easily my favorite character. He got Mance and the Wildings south of the Wall. And screw D&D for giving show-Jon that partial-credit in Hardhome. If Book-Stannis had been there, he'd have gotten that "Dying for Duty" ending the Show-Stannis deserved.
I like to keep mentioning that Show-Daenerys caught up to Viserys in age and madness, a symptom of mental illness induced by multiple generations of inbreeding. Book-Dany's parents AND grandparents were siblings, with the show omitting Jaehaerys II entirely to make it seem more likely that Aemon was still alive (dude is 102 in the books).
"She went crazy and started burning innocents alive because omg Dany's ~crazy~ gene suddenly appeared!" is even worse writing than "she went on a furious rampage because she was crazy all along, and you viewers were silly to not see the (nonexistent) red flags in earlier seasons"
Their personal dislike was so blatant from the off and they're opinion that he'd be a terrible king despite realistically been the optimum choice in terms of capability and outlook just sealed for me that they didn't understand the character whatsoever and took his bad actions at face value.
Even without the madness Dany had villain written allover her for me personally. She's just so well written that its hard see past her benevolent qualities, which many forget is how many tyrants gained a foothold in real history. Noone ever initially gains power by been cruel, they start by rallying the downtrodden behind them.
Thanks for watching as always my lord! Liam
"The hints were always there" lol. In the books there is already a mad queen obsessed with fire, Cersei Lannister. Daenerys magical arc was completely cut for the show and turned into the typical stereotype of a powerful female character who doesn't know how to deal with her powers. GRRM intentionally writes his characters and their deeds as a counterpoint to what is expected for them. Daenerys entire arc has been and will be focused on magic, conquest, liberation and ultimate sacrifice and salvation of the world in the fight against the long night and the Others (which is literally why her sacrifice on Khal Drogo's pyre works, because she and her dragons are the hope of the triumph of the fire and light against the ice and darkness).
I'll believe it when I read it 😂 Books or Show Dany has the makings of a Villain, she's just written so masterfully that she presents like a real world villain rather than a fictional one in my opinion.
The people of Germany saw a certain toothbrush mustache wearing dictator as their saviour at one point you know and the world agreed with them until the monster revealed itself. I think we'll see the same with Dany.
But without those last two books we'll never know :(
Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Comparing a teenager trying to abolish an 8,000 year old slavery regime to Adolf is wild.
Jon snow is my choice for number one. Him being a Targaryen’s was so pointless and they missed out giving us a solid 1 v 1 against the Night King.
I don't think you can blame the show for Jon been a Targ, the test for DnD to be given the rights to make the show in the first place was them been able to tell GRRM who Jons mother was so I think that's safely a plot point from the books.
I hard agree with you about the NK though. I know prophecy is more vague in the books, but they laid it on so thick in the show that Jon would be the one to kill the NK, it gave me blue balls when he got stuck behind that dragon 😂
Thanks for watching Tunapot! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips
Hey Liam thanks for the reply.
I always thought DnD having to figure out who Jons mother to get the show was a cool story. What a litmus test to figure if they’re real fans.
I’m going to clarify my point because I didn’t make it very well. I shouldn’t say pointless that’s too harsh, incredibly underused is better haha
I loved that Jon was a Targ, I just wish they did more with it. I’ll have rewatch season 8 but I don’t remember it being known by anyone but Jon, Sam, dany and Bran.
It would have been cool/interesting to see Jon’s name get thrown in the conversation for King at the end.
If you haven’t watch on RUclips Ryan George Game of Thrones Season 8 pitch meeting. It’s very funny and sums up a lot of points better than I.
Great content tho, really appreciate it from you guys and other Thrones content creators.
All hail the algorithm
We know know no king but the algorithm of the youtubes. - Thom
Okay…first I was worried in this list h it Sam if ya didn’t nail my own number one and two in the same order even if at times I feel Jamie and Stannis got equally screw by the show. I agree with you list in all that Euron should have been at the bottom simple by you own words that he is not remotely close tk the book and like the Sand Sister and all of Dorne got butchered by the show runners. For that reason he should have been number five dk that and this list is more reasonable in my eyes.
Have to see if ya did a Dorne Dine Dirty vid as man did the show muder them!
Lol the video should be other way around 2,3 characters that weren't ruined by D&D only if there were any
😂
I always thought GRRM took inspiration from Rommel for Stannis, not every aspect of his character but certainly his military doctrine and his willingness to sit comfortably with soldier to lord.
Its certainly possible, I know Rommel wasn't a squeaky clean guy, but I know he was also very well liked by his men who respected the fact he'd get in the mud with them. I remember seeing a clip of him jumping out of his car when it got stuck in the mud and helping his soldiers dig it out, could have been propaganda but if it wasn't I can see why both friend and foe respected him alike. Similar to Stannis. Thanks for watching Cody! Liam
Yeah the more I read back the more similarities I draw between the two. I’m sure there’s a ton of inspirations for the character though. Main point here though is that the show absolutely butchered Stannis, you hear of his tactical ability in the show but you never actually really see it. The actor did a good job with what he was given though.