The Last of Us Part 2 SPOILERCAST - Kinda Funny Gamescast Ep. 25
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- Опубликовано: 18 июн 2020
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Tim, Greg, Blessing, and What's Good Game's Kristine Steimer give their FULL SPOILERS take of The Last of Us Part II. Game provided by PlayStation.
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Every day Greg Miller, Blessing Adeoye Jr., and Tim Gettys talk about the biggest stories in Video Games.
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Игры
S/O to everyone that climbed the dinosaur statue
Best flashback of the game imo
I’m mad bc I’m on my NG+Survivor run now and I missed that AGAIN 😂
Nick Kirkendoll the ground zero boss looks impossible on survivor
@@nickkirkendoll3624 gotta start all over in that case
Dropoffster Gaming its not too bad if you have a few hunting pistol shots
Joel tearing up when ellie says she will try to forgive him
That last scene fucking destroyed me, seeing ellie and joel finally coming together, Ellie willing to try and forgive him so they can have some sort of friendship. so beautiful but so heartbreaking knowing what happens only hours later. I understand ellie’s pain, her anger. such a gut punch of a moment
Truly wonderful performances from Baker and Johnson there. The way he chokes on the “Yeah” at the end put a boulder sized lump in my throat.
I was not prepared to see Joel cry again :'(
Just my personal take but I think the reason they put this scene where it is also hinted that Ellie is also trying to forgive Abby, because she has realised that she would not truly be able to move on until she does. Again just my two cents~
yeah that was a very emotional part knowing that was the last thing she told joel before he was killed
Finished the game and immedeatley came to this for group therapy
Same. Especially after making the mistake of going to the subreddit. Every other subreddit is for fans. Period. Last of us 2 subreddit? Nothing but haters.. That's it.
The game is no 10/10 but still is a very good game don’t get it twisted 👍 Amazing job to everyone who worked on it 🙏
Cats 2079 just finished it as well. There are some things I really don’t like and some things I do. Ellie forgiving her in the end didn’t feel earned to me I was pretty livid at that moment. I also didn’t really enjoy abbys part as well. That being said. I absolutely love Ellie’s section and the flashbacks and I think the house ending was fitting
Same brother if only Colin was here
Haha I'm with you buddy. Let's start a discord channel. I need this! 😂
I won't lie. The comment section here is a lot healthier than whatever shit I'm seeing on the internet and trashing The Last of Us part 2 non-stop.
i'm so happy to hear that because all this unnecessary hate that it gets
@@derrickkernaghan1280 unnecessary? Lol, this game is a huge disappointment. Joel dies and Ellie has become edgy. 15 hours in and it's a 6/10 for me. Joel's death left feeling empty inside. Fuck neil.
I know right. It’s almost like waiting until finishing the game to judge it leads to constructive thoughts and conversations who would’ve thought
@@therewasasequelwasntgood8467 15 hours in and already passing judgement, your opinion was biased even before you started playing.
We actually played the game, they just want to be negative. I'm glad we gave this game a chance.
The title card when you beat the game is infact Catalina island, showing that Lev and Abby made it to the fireflies .
hot damn, I thought it was the round house from the resort.
@Dave C. Well, given how the operator wanted to know which FF crew Abby belonged to and who ran it, it'd be strange to ask those security questions - verifying Abby is who she says she is - if they weren't really FF.
If your right then the game is siding with Abby as the winner.
T L Kurt Margenau (co-director) confirmed in an article that it was in fact Catalina, and recognized the confusion players have expressed about the title screen. The building in question appears to be the Catalina Casino.
LordTrig00 you say winner but if the game showed us anything it’s probably gonna be the same shit at the fire fly place. There is no safe place in the world
After a short while playing as Abby, seeing her nightmare/flashbacks to the night in hospital when she finds her dad, it hit me: This game isn’t really about revenge - it’s about trauma. Ellie and Abby are the same, both gripped by the weight of the loss of someone who was more important that they can explain. The most difficult thing to wrestle with after both stories from the parallel three days converge is that we as the players know that Abby did not find absolution or peace after killing Joel. It’s not until she carries out a selfless act to save Lev and Yara that she can finally see her fathers face again in her dream.
I’ve seen lots of people who are so angry that Ellie doesn’t go through with killing Abby, but that’s the whole point. For a moment she remembers Joel as a bloodied carcass on the cold floor of the lodge - but just before killing her, she remembers his face light up as she comes up the porch to see him. Maybe she doesn’t realize it, but her selfless act was in fighting her way there to kill Abby, but ultimately saving her and Lev. Maybe she knows that another dead body won’t change the past, it won’t fix her pain.
Very well said. Nice to see people whom actually know what they're talking about within regards to the intention and overall purpose of the story of this game. For most people it'd seem it's flown over a lot of their heads. Which is unfortunate, but also expected when it comes getting people to see multiple perspectives of than either themselves or the character's in which they take control of or same time don't. When looked back people will see how ahead of its time this narrative was on an interactive level.
Spot on.
I didn't like the story but I like this.
This comment right here is everything. U explained it so well. I feel like the people that hate the ending just did not see the message the game was trying to portray
Zocialix Question: if people around are getting multiple perspectives towards the game, how is this any better. I’m a writer myself, and I didn’t feel an ounce of this.
I couldn’t understand Ellie’s hell bent motivation of revenge until I beat the game. I feel like her revenge and killing all that wronged Joel was the only way Ellie could move on from Joel. Joel and his decision was a dark cloud over Ellie’s entire existence. Every decision, high and low point of her life stands in the shadow of Joel’s decision. She was starting to try to forgive his selfishness but Abby took the opportunity of forgiveness away from her. Ellie’s opportunity for forgiving and mending was gone in its place was the opportunity to avenge him. She had to kill all of them so she could move on from Joel.
Great point, hadn't even thought of that
Totally agree with you, she was not only fighting Abby and the WLF, she was taking YEARS of pent up hatred and aggression towards Joel and his decision out on them. cause if it was up to her, she would be dead and it wouldn't be her problem anymore.
True but then she let Abby live
Herman Falck How yes but it was personal for Abby so the torture was justified imo
Dude great fucking take !
Yo I freaking love the point steimer made about Ellie being the moth and Abby the firefly
i always love her insight!!
Yeah I never considered that idea!
@@liquid1122 does abby have a journal? :O
Never saw it while playing
@@X5J2UY she does not
Big Brain Moment😲
My take on the ending:
I believe Ellie learned that revenge won't bring back Joel. She knows that this loss can't be filled/grow back (like her fingers). She is willing to let Abby go because she sees the effects of the neverending cycle of revenge (she may even sympathize with Abby). Joel was a big part of her life that was taken away but her thirst for revenge added loss upon loss. Abby seeking revenge on Joel brought about the loss of her friends. Ellie seeking revenge lost Dina and the baby. I can go on and on about the examples in this game of vengeance leading to loss. Abby realizes there are"people" on both sides of the conflict because of the kids and is willing to let go. Now it's Ellie's turn and ends up letting go.
Life without Joel will be/sound different (like missing a finger when playing a guitar chord. It's missing that familiar tune but you have to live with it). Forgiveness and learning to move on I believe is what the ending is seeking to portray. The flashback of Joel and Ellie at the end supports this. Ellie knows what Joel did at the hospital and she knows he can't take it back (even if he wanted to *he didn't*). Despite the pain she wants to move on and continue a relationship with Joel.
Well said! Beautifully put!
Couldn't agree more. When she steps into the water towards her boat at the end, she sees an image of Joel bloody and dead, moving her immediately towards revenge. She's even threatening Lev to spur Abby to fight back. But when she is mercilessly drowning Abby, she sees an alternate image of Joel - the scene on the porch - where she forgives Joel. In that moment, she realizes that if she has the strength to work towards forgiving Joel, she can do the same for Abby and lets her go.
@@abbasakbar6597 umm why did she release Abby from the tree, she could have killed her, there.
My take is that Ellie finally forgave Joel for what he did. She was moving on from her emotions due to what bad Joel did and her love for him. Forgiving his killer, Abby, was the first step to forgiving Joel. Explains the flashback during the moment of almost drowning her. And of course putting the guitar down is her leaving behind this baggage that Joel gave her.
A L I think she did it out of a moment of compassion seeing her as another human being needing help. For a fraction she sees a beaten and tortured Abby as another person. It's only when she gets back to the boat and has the flashback her rage rises up again and she has to fight her. By beating Abby to the point of death she regains control of her life and by choosing to spare her she regains her humanity.
Also in her quest for revenge Ellie’s greatest fear comes to pass, she’s completely alone.
Damn good point. When she's talking to sam in the first game and she says exactly this and it ends up happening. Wow
Not to mention, after learning the truth, she never felt her life was worthy of the cost of the vaccine.
Man just reading your comment made me cry again
I think my favorite part was that yes, all this revenge ended up leaving her completely alone. It’s not a happy ending. But I sure as fuck wasn’t expecting her to live with Dina and Joel next door. I’m glad the game went with the a direction that’s not predictable.
Fuck.... I'm balling now 😭😭😭😭
I’ve also found something else regarding Joel’s song. “ if I ever was to lose you, I’d surely lose myself “
When Ellie plays guitar:
1st: she only sings the first line, she just remembers of the loss
2nd: she sings it to the second line, this is where she totally loses herself.
3rd: she can’t even play on the guitar anymore.
This is more to the amazing details in writing and directing the game
MyWorld Gaming done
django reinhardt
tHe gAmE wAs laZy AnD sHiT
I didn't even notice that! Thank you for pointing it out!! What a great game with such beautiful details.
She can still play, but the song feels broken, unfinished when played at the end.
It’s weird that when I was playing the game I really disliked the direction the story went but having played it a second time and thinking about what the story achieved especially with that tragic ending I’ve completely changed my mind about this game.
Yeah I genuinely think this game is a flawed masterpiece.
100 percent agree. When I switched as abby. I felt uncomfortable. Like I didn't like it. But the more I played as her. The more I grew to empathise. Seeing her realitonship with lev reminded me that of Joel and Ellie. The games perspective shows nobody is good. Everyone does what they do to survive. That ending was so powerful
Does a second play through help with ending? Especially the fact that it feels like the game ends multiple times and then like nah there’s this last bit
@@kevdawgswalkthroughs2327 never felt anything for her. She knew her own father wouldn't be able to sacrifice her. I only felt for her friends (mainly Owen) that followed her and payed the price for her revenge like Jesse did.
It's the same thing for me watching a new Star Wars movie, the first time watching it is always in a flawed mindset. Can't get the expectations out of mind. Focusing too much on what happens instead of how and why, which are arguably more important. A second watch/playthrough really brings everything in perspective and allows you to appreciate things with a grander vision.
When you play as Abby and have to fight Ellie wreaked me. I died 5 or 6 times because I didn't want to win. The first video game "Boss" fight I wanted to lose.
Matt Lybarger yeah I didn’t like that part
The same happened to me! I kept putting down the controller because I didn't want to win. Such a great immersive moment that moved me. Also, by the end the same thing happened to me where I didn't want Ellie to kill Abby and everything came to full circle. Loved the game so much.
Yep! I was fucking baffled that the guys in this video were saying they didn't want to hurt Abby in the final fight, but mentioned nothing about this. I deliberately killed myself in the fight against Ellie multiple times, because if this game was to make me choose, I'd pick Ellie every fucking time.
Me too, I kind of enjoyed watched Ellie get to kill Abby when I lost the first couple times
Steimer's read on the flashback and Ellie's destination is so powerful and truly leaves me with some hope I didn't have before watching this video. So incredibly smart.
Timestamp?
She also left the guitar behind, which has a moth on it. It means that she's giving up on this obsessive search she's been on. Like a moth that stops going after the light.
I feel like the Joel/Ellie flashback scene at the end is so important because it shows why Joel's death was so devastating for Ellie. She was very close to having a good relationship with her father figure, but Abby took that away. It was Ellie's final reconciliation with that moment and why she is broken. Her last scene was her finally leaving Joel's memory(symbolized by the guitar) behind and not dwelling on his death.
Made me cry so much
This so much. I was also so glad that we saw Ellie was ready to forgive Joel and when Ellie said that and Joel started crying afterwards I was completely in tears. You could see how much both of them still loved each other.
Too bad she didn’t care about him enough to finish job. “I just torture and kill god know how many people to get to you (Abby), but turn out, this whole violence thing, just lead to more violence”. Now I know why Star Wars fans hate the last Jedi. Worst ending ever!
I had a similar thought while the game was wrapping up.
No need to see that, we already know that Joel and Ellie care about each other and can assume most of the consequences of their estrangement. Ellie isn't even the main character and if she were, the story doesn't follow her relationship with Joel so it still wouldn't matter.
I just hit the credits and I’m crying
“I don’t know what her intentions are, but she’d be lucky to have you”
It’s early, but I’m going to say it’s better than the first. What started off as a revenge story, turned into a meditation on trauma and how we cope.
Caelan Murie Nice summary, the game was fucking amazing
facts. while the first was pretty straightforward and easy to love, this one just has so much more to unpack and was done in an amazing way. one of the only times i've agreed with ign giving a 10/10
It’s not a 10/10 for me cause the side characters were so bland and that’s disappointing coming from a naughty dog game which usually has iconic characters all around.
@@aashrithmadagiri6711 just so I understand, what are the iconic 'side characters' from other ND games that you're offering up as comparison? And are you specifically talking about Yara, Lev, Owen, Manny, Mel, Dina and Jesse. Or some of the minor side characters?
Vita Girl is iconic and she was only in it for two scenes!
Craig Gribble I’m talking about Elena, Sully, Flynn, Eddy Raja, etc from uncharted
This video to me feels like a sanctuary of sanity in the discourse surrounding this game.
Here you have 4 people that have clearly thought about the narrative decisions made in the game, clearly put a lot of thought into the game in general and were open to the story going in unexpected ways. Listening to you guys recall your favourite moments from the game is really what it's all about. I'm not surprised by the reaction to the game, it's a risky story for sure, but some of the rant filled reviews, review bombing and toxic attitudes surrounding this game almost depress me more than the actual game did.
This game is truly one of the best pieces of narrative videogames there is. I came to this video and these comments (mostly positive) to cheer myself up.
You should also check out the Game Informer's Spoiled.
Seriously. It’s like I get it, and I’m still trying to decide how I feel about it, like I said I get the frustration people have but all the toxic hate towards it is just insane and it’s just like why can’t they at least respect it for what it is and pay some respect to the arguments of what’s so good about it as well.
olgil the amount of bad press the game got for being SJW and having a trans character kill Joel which wasn’t even true, I would’ve loved to see the reaction if no leaks transpired. Neil Druckman and a lot of writing within the game has already squashed most people’s criticisms as being false but the lies just keep spreading before the truth can catch up. It frustrates me to see the hate of this game is just full of bandwagon bullshit and lies, I’m sure there are fair criticisms of this game too but it’s hard to find anyone on the sensible side with that view, everyone seems to be capitalising on the hate to boost their views.
Another thought I had, and I'm just going to leave it here: when Abby says "you don't get to make this quick" that can also be seen as an analogue for what the game will do to you as a player. You're going to want Ellie to not leave her farm house, you're going to want her to stop at the beach. You're just going to want the game to stop, not because it's bad, but because you just can't stomach anymore... then Abby's words ring out "you don't get to make this quick". And I don't know about any of you, but I certainly didn't ask questions or hesitate killing that surgeon in St. Mary's from the first game.
When the games starts in Seattle I remember thinking “I can’t wait till we find Abby”. Like I wanted to take her DOWN. But by the time we got to the final fight at the beach, I was feeling physically sick watching Ellie and her fight. Like I out loud said “Stop!”. That is fantastic storytelling
Ellie killed 100s of people to get to Abby. It’s terrible writing that we didn’t get to kill Abby
@@bifff2252 that's the point! The game wants you to see how terrible humans can be to one another & that the only reason we are good to some is because you bond, share and experience. We grow sympathetic. You reactionaries are too dumb to understand this piece of art.
@@bifff2252 "get to" you really wanted her to kill Abby at the end? even just from Ellie's perspective, she's destroying herself by holding onto that hate. Losing her fingers aka ability to play guitar! fucking brutal, and beautiful.
100% agree
JamesHLanier but her arc/redemption came out of nowhere, she was still killing people up to that very confrontation.
I never grew to really “like” Abby, but I stopped hating her. I imagine her story closely resembles Joel’s; total human garbage who lost everything and then was softened by having to take care of a kid.We just didn’t feel the impact of Joel being garbage. Even early on, this game felt like a ride. I think it’s meant to be consumed in a weekend, spreading it out too much and you might be off the roller coaster. This ride is not always enjoyable or fun, but it makes you feel what it wants you to feel. I felt absolute hatred and disgust, I felt trapped and impatient, I felt terror and fear, eventually I stopped feeling angry, instead just sad and empty. It is truly amazing how they use everything at their disposal to somehow make the player feel all stages of hatred. I will be reflecting on this for a while.
THANK YOU!! I’ve been in the internet for ages and all I see is “Joel died, game is shit”. Everything you said resonates with me as well and I don’t see how ppl expected a light hearted adventure from this game. Sure the feelings this game brought on were not pleasant but I felt so intense that I couldn’t help but appreciate the story telling.
aashrith madagiri I think Joel should have died but not the way he did. Completely bullshit death. Abby is also a poorly written character and I dint want to play as the girl who killed Joel for saving his daughter.
@@bifff2252 how should he have died?
@@bifff2252 I don't mind how he died, just how early it was, but other than that the game was great.
Liam Statham Joel’s death is brutal because it has to anger the player and feel Ellie’s rage. However, after finishing the game I do agree that Joel should’ve gotten more screen time and he kinda felt pushed aside.
I feel like Part One is easier to love as the plot operates more like a traditional game narrative. Part One was akin to a Hollywood film, the hero dispatch’s multiple grunts, goons and villains on their path to justice. Part two is far more layered almost a mirror of its predecessor and reflects the protagonist’s / antagonists actions in far more visceral detail. It magnifies human nature, it’s complexity and consequence. It’s an emotionally exhausting exceptional game. Part Two deserves all the praise and accolades it receives regardless or almost in spite of players personal feelings on plot direction.
yes exactly, the story of the first game is easy to like. Part 2 is a more challenging story, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad one
@@terencecaron2922 What? Revenge tales will always be complicated cause revenge isn't necessarily the right thing to do but it feels like something that should be done, and how many people that has to nothing with you do you hurt on your path to vengeance makes it still worth it? Ellie was never evil just blinded by hatred just like Abby, Ellie was shook up many times, when she killed Nora her "enemy" it shook her to her core that she tortured Nora for info, when she killed pregnant Mel she felt sick, at the end fighting Abby, she completely broken down and decided not to kill Abby. Ellie killing Joel is nonsensical cause he isn't just a reminded that her life didn't mean what she wanted it to but also a father figure that protected her and she understood why he didn't and was willing to forgive him cause he gave a life where she now has friends and a possibilities of relatonships.
it took me 2 years to learn and accept this,this game sticks with me damn near every day,i love it so much now
I saw the leaks. As a fan, I was so frustrated and hurt by the (out of context) narrative decision of killing off Joel and then making you play as his killer. But man I’m glad I didn’t let that stop me from playing! This is more than just a game. It really is an experience that, for me, brought out EVERY emotion. When the credits rolled, so did the tears. What a masterpiece.
Good for you brother! I felt the same way by the end. I cried
So glad to see ppl could still have this reaction to it despite the leaks, happy for ya
Really glad to see this!
I think it’s extremely important to remember that everyone is the hero of their own story.
I'm just starting in but Ellie singing "take on me" is one of my favorite moments in games of the past generation.
Edit: just got to the museum for another one of my favorite moments of the generation. I almost tear up at the rocket launch bit.
Edit 2: got to the scene where Abby is about to be hung and let me just say watching that trailer on RUclips didn't do the scene the justice it deserves. It looked absolutely incredible along with my 3D audio headset and the only light coming from fire while you battle infected with no real weapons and running through a pitch black forrest while hearing the clicking all around me came together for an experience unlike anything I've experienced this generation and maybe ever. Bravo Naughty Dog
Agreed.
Yeah totally agree. What a great moment. It is missable, but they signpost it pretty well to the point where I’m sure most people will.
@@marshall6113 I LOVED that moment. I kinda wish the game was a combination of Ellie's revenge journey and then playing flashbacks as Joel (for example when Ellie runs off you can play part of the portion of him chasing her and have to kill some hunters/infected). But, that whole museum flashback was so special. I actually almost left before going to the spaceship, but Joel was like "Hey, why don't we look around some more". Good way to tell the player they aren't done yet.
The whole museum section was one of my favourite parts of this game 😊 loved the Jurassic Park references too.
You aren't the only one, my friend. I'm 31 and actually cried like a baby there, and I wasn't one of the ones who cried during Joel's daughters death scene in the first game.
The title screen at the end is catalina island- one of the game directors said as much in an interview.
Really? Could you point me to the interview?
Cutter Elf I mean just look up Catalina Island. The building makes it obvious.
Not to mention the building isn’t on fire or burnt down.
Fucking Last of us wine mixer. Seriously, good find. I was both curious and lazy to the local when it pop on my screen.
@@thisisntevenmyfinalform1773 The fucking Last of Us Wine Mixer
When abby turns to Lev after Kara saves them from Isaac, Lev is screaming at her that those were her people and it was her fault and abby just grabs him and says “You’re my people Lev, we aren’t going to die on this island”. Chills, what a beautiful moment
So I've finally finished the game, I felt so broken at the end, enjoyed both main character's stories.
I have always liked these type of stories, Kill Bill, Death Wish, Age Of Darkness, etc.
I love the fact that Ellie ends the cycle of hate and vengeance, she lets Abby go, doesn't mean Ellie has forgiven Abby for killing Joel, it just means Ellie has realized this cycle doesn't have and end, hell maybe Lev would've come for Ellie, thats if he would've survived that night, it is a gut wrenching story, I love every second of it.
That's the real thing that goes unsaid but Ellie had to have thought about. If she learned anything the first time around it would be killing Abby means killing Lev. Lev would just come back, kill Tommy, Ellie, and Dina, and maybe JJ. And if Lev doesn't kill JJ, that just means JJ is pulled into it as well.
@@shaid1111 I agree with you there on some points, I believe however, Abby's story is the best story of the two, IMO she has the better companions and set pieces.
Dieg0Fdc All of the side characters in this game are very disappointing. I expected more of naughty dog due to their track record. However, I never hated them (except manny) so I could buy into Abby’s tale.
@@aashrithmadagiri6711 IMO, they're very fleshed out, different strokes for different folks.
Good to see there are human who sees and feels about this game as I do. Thanks guys for this vid
I'm sure there are a bunch of people that are too busy playing it and enjoying it too much to go to the internet and lower themselves like those trolls that you see comments from.
Imagine being over 18 and taking your time to trash a game you haven't even played. Sad isn't it?
i’m already excited to go through it again on Survivor+ with removed HUD elements, one of the best games i’ve played in a while.
@Tom preach bro!
@@Dieg0frc I literally went dark on social media/ family to play this game. Never been so invested to this degree and I've just finished the story . Just stunning and it will stick with me for a long long time
Yesterday I literally just sat in front of the starting screen for like 20min, just looking at the waves, and putting myself trough the feels, how do I start this again. It flipping makes me cry now not just at the crucial moments, but every time I see Ellie as a “normal” girl. I think after this game even going back to the first one would me more heart breaking.
When you're playing Abby in the theatre, fighting Ellie, I tried to lose a couple of times
I’ve never felt more cognitive dissonance over playing a game than I did when I realized we had to play that fight as Abby, I don’t think there’s even a word to describe the mix I felt between “omg i don’t wanna do this” and “but I need to see what happens”
this is the scene I hated the most. It just felt so off to me.
I've just beat this game... I am mentally and physically drained but what a rollercoaster of a game. Loved every second and I should be going to bed as its 4am but I cant stop thinking about the story beats and that ending!!
We finished the game same time, and then I started to watch reviews to see if other people love the game as much as I am. (I was avoiding spoilers before)
Unfortunately there is a lot of people who hate it with a passion, but without shadow of a doubt, this game will be remembered for decades to come.
Much more powerful story and ending than first game.
I think people mostly hate it because they can't handle not getting the happy ending or the feeling of satisfaction when the credits roll.
I think thats the beauty of the game it's so controversially tragic and messed up. Just finished right now and I'm emotionally drained too I cried a couple of times, totally loved the game can't think of a game that made me feel so much in a long time. It's just excellent.
It’s the most beautifully harrowing effort... the best game ever made.
@@MrHellgate82 I was waiting to watch reviews and like you said alot of people said its lazy writing and they did joel dirty. To me yes he died wuickly in the game but that just shows me how dangerous this world is and can be. It did make me enjoy killing people when I was ellie but just seeing her go to far becoming a monster was powerful. God I just fucking love this game. Story and gameplay was the most invested I've been .
@@SebastianRodriguez-hb2uw yea I teared up multiple times and one of them that got me was when dina begged ellie not to leave and I was asking her not to myself .
I am literally in tears right now knowing that there are people that think like me about this game. I spent an hour listening to another youtuber and his fans tear the game apart and tear me down for liking it saying I know nothing about games or how stories should be written.
Because seems you don't know when you should.
It's basic so I spell it to you: The story is good when majority of audience whom expirenced liked it. If it's great majority then it can be called masterpiece. But if minority liked it, it's described as average or sometimes even bad.
There is no way that everyone can like or dislike something, but going by numbers is good indication for everything. Math is the savior of humanity and gaming wouldn't existed without it.
Zerer Hes that’s not true some people just can’t handle a dark story even if the world has been proven to be dark as shit, the majority of people are just soft as hell and can’t get past Joel dying because of the first game is about him. They can’t handle that this is a different game where the beginning of it starts with the repercussions of the first game. And this conflict was necessary to even justify a sequel otherwise there would have been nothing going on and no worthy antagonist to go after as Ellie or Joel that would make them leave their peaceful town.
Yes, some people can't. But people who play games from horror genre and still can't are rather rare.
So when majority of such genre lovers still have such opinions, that speaks volumes and should be obvious to recognize something is wrong. And it's not Joel's death, but rather pacing and ending is most heavily criticised in this linear game. Story not only wasn't good enough for lot of players, but for some "destroyed" legacy of previous game, so they won't replay even first one ever again.
And you shouldn't criticize what others can or can't handle if you also can't handle that majority can have different opinion.
We all have flaws including me and you. Goal is to recognise them and to try to answer obvious questions by ourselves.
@@zererhes9918 "billions of flies eat shit everyday. So what? Does that make it good?"
Your not alone there’s still ppl who appreciate a good story (that’s defies your expectations )and a fucking epic game and who doesn’t just want some fan fiction bull shit
I must have said "Go home, Ellie" to myself about 1,000 times after she walks out the door of her and Dina's house with her backpack.
Me too but ironically if she had stayed Abby and Lev would have died on the pillars.
For me my eyes welled up with tears when Joel was telling Ellie a pun about eating a clock as it reminded me immediately of Riley from Left Behind.
The other scene was when we were prompted to hit square to torture Nora, the moment I hit the button, somehow tears started welling up in my eyes.
Glad I watched this, made me realise I did really love this game I doubt myself when I see all the hate towards this game.
This is how I feel. I just finished the game, and went to this and see all this hate, and actually started to question whether the game was actually good. I stand by the fact that it was exceptional. I think the anger in many people is bc it flew in the face of expectations.
It’s not a game for everyone that’s for sure, and tbh in someways I hate it because it takes characters I love to places I didn’t want to ever see them go. But not every story should end the way you want it to, and to me that’s even more powerful.
Don't agree. In real life different stories exist with majority that can be described as "bad outcome". In fiction thou goal is to have good story and it is called that when majority likes it. And for entertainment purposes only good stories usually "live on" for years. It's a bad story when majority dislike it and it's a crime when target audience was mislead and product was falsely advertised and because of it have good initial sales.
And seems this "exceptional" product of yours was falsely advertised and even can't be criticised while most vocal about disallowing negative opinion are people who speak for diversity. And that's hypocritical behaviour.
LOUIS I finished it last night. This game is unlike anything I have ever seen. The narrative choices it makes.. I’m very conflicted but this is truly something special. I only wish I could have played has Joel with these improved gameplay mechanics. The hate stems from the fact people are hurting because of Joel’s death.
Zerer Hes I don’t agree with the fact that a story is good, only if the majority say its good. I also disagree that false advertising is a determining factor in a story being good. Aside from this, I have read many negative comments from people who have simply not played the game. Others simply felt betrayed because they had other expectations. Naughty Dog is culpable, in part, on setting those expectations, but I believe that this game will one day be remembered as pushing the video-game genre forward. I also don’t think that the majority believe the game or story to be bad. I think its just a vocal minority.
Did anyone else climb the T-Rex?
Who else jumped off of it?
@@caleboles8896 I had to try and boy am I glad I did!
Oh yes. :) It was a nice comparison with Abby being scared of heights
I even put a hat on it
@@Dannyltmsyf Omfg no way, you can put the hat on the Trex?
Ellie going on her final revenge mission against Abby ended up saving Abby and Lev's lives. Abby and Lev would have died on that beam otherwise. That kind of bitter-sweet storytelling is just so great.
Even in pittsburg ellie says how did you know it was a trap, the response from joel is troys favorite line in the game, "I've been on both sides"
I empathize with Ellie completely. Even with the complexity and difficulty of her relationship with Joel. He is, after all, the only real family she has. Despite everything they went through finding the Fireflies in the first game, and Joel's betrayal of her trust, deep down she understands his reasoning and that the connection they share is real.
I know some people won't understand why she left Dina and JJ to pursue Abby a second time. Ellie wasn't at peace. She could have spent the rest of her life at that farm with her new family, but she would have been a ghost of herself. She needed closure in order to move on, and that wasn't going to happen until she confronted Abby again.
As for Abby, I really enjoyed her side of the story and how well her cast of friends were fleshed out. And even if they were fully realized and were put in a light to make the player empathize with them, they still crossed a line that there is no coming back from.
They killed Joel. And not quickly either. I don't argue that Abby didn't deserve her revenge, but Joel was the homie. And choices have consequences. Even though Abby avenged her father and survived Ellie's retribution, going after Joel cost her the life she knew and every single person she cared about. Vengeance is a never ending cycle. But there are some things you just can't let go unpunished.
The Last of Us Part II is a fantastic achievement in technical and cinematic wizardry. This by far the best performance capture and acting in a video game to date. And while Naughty Dog still hasn't quite nailed the shooting mechanics, they make up for it by delivering a supremely polished and rich experience that will be looked to as a gold standard for years to come. Bravo.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
100% agree with you! Ellie and Abby are both horrible for what they have done. I never liked one more than the other because they were both went too far, and became blind to their fury.
Excellent summary. Thank you.
Thank you for this, so tired of hearing the same 3 complaints from people who haven't played this game
I honestly disagree with the "this game makes you side with Abby" takes. I like Abby as a character but I didn't side with her when it came to killing Joel. I think they did an excellent job at making you understand her and her friends perspectives, especially the guilt Abby began to feel towards the end of her story, but I still couldn't help to side with Ellie.
Joel's decision at the end of the last game is one that a lot of us would have made. That's why we felt a connection with him. And in choosing Abby's side over Joel is to say that you would've chosen to kill Ellie, and I wouldn't have killed Ellie if I was in Joel's shoes tbh.
And that final conversation between Joel and Ellie made me tear up, while also adding so much more heartbreak on top of Joel's death.
I would’ve done what Joel did too. But that doesn’t mean his actions didn’t leave consequences. You’re telling me if a random dude called Johnson kills your dad and the promise of a cure, you’re not going after him?
I think even though what Joel did at the end of the first game is something many of us would have done, the point of the game is that what he did was unimaginably horrible to everyone who was on the other side of it, and what he did was unforgivable, no matter what his motivations were. Like Kristine was saying, its the us vs them theme, and much of this game is looking at the motivations of characters from the lenses of the other characters. In the same way we can understand Joel's motivations for doing the horrible thing he did, we can apply the same to Abby and why she did what she did
I agree. Whilst I personally think what Joel did in the last game was wrong, I don't think the point is to make you "side" with Abby. In fact, by the end I don't think you're supposed to side with either character, you just want them to live, and be happy. That's certainly where I was by the end.
I don't think this game is even trying to make you side with Abby, I think all of the critics are misinterpreting that. they show Abby at the height of her hatred, and then show the after effects of all of that and how it, over time, disentgrated all of her relationships.
Owen calls Abby out for it perfectly:
"What's being a grown up Abby? Should I go track down the people who killed my parents and torture them too?"
Abby is acting as if she is the single person who has ever been hurt in this world and has spent her entire life avoiding all chances at happiness because of it. Just like Joel prior to meeting Ellie. And Abby killing Joel is the exact same level of selfishness that Joel showed by killing the Doctor, Marlene, and the rest of the Fireflies.
The game wasn't intending to make you side with Abby, just show her perspective and understand the consequences of Joel's decision. I don't think the writers think what Joel did was wrong either because in the end you see Joel saying if he had another chance he would still save her just the same and Ellie deep down understanding that and being ready to forgive him.
There was one point near the end of the game, when I was kind of disappointed - by the fact that Ellie is going back after Abby, again. Even my boyfriend commented, that it’s going to be such a cliche - Ellie or Abby dies and that’s the end of the story. But then, the final “fight” started. I was crying while fighting Abby, I really didn’t want to do that - she was already dying, and wanted to give Lev a fresh start. And when Ellie finally saw Joel’s happy memory, I lost myself completely. The ending is perfect - we finally break the cycle of violence, and we got to see one final Joel flashback as the credits rolled. We were so so so extremely impressed with the ending and I know we’re going to think about it for a looong time. A masterpiece
Fuck yes. So glad you guys enjoyed it together.
Did anyone catch the art direction. Abby discovering Owen and Mels bodies but it looked eerily like her nightmare sequences.... fuckin brilliant
When Ellie is walking on the beach looking for Abby, and we find a woman with the braid and similar body build, I was so confused why it wasn't let me cut her down. But when I realized it wasn't her, and the emaciated woman with the short hair was Abby, that was where I broke down and sobbed.
Same. They had to have purposely put that model in there to have that effect.
My reaction was "Holy...where's Lev?!". I was attached to them both without realizing it.
That was such an amazing detail and the same happened to me!! I didn't understand what was going on and then I hear "help" out of the speakers so I turned around and to my surprise find actual Abby. It left me speechless.
Same here. When Ellie went over to fight Abby at the boats I was shouting "For f*** sake, Ellie, look at her". I then spent the first bit of the fight doing nothing but dodging.
Just finished. I got everything from this game: It broke me. I loved it, hated it, liked it, cried at it, got a bit bored of it, couldn’t put it down and thoroughly enjoyed it. I leave not knowing how it’s going to fit in my hall of game fame. A few more play throughs will tell, but right now it’s a great game. I think.
Ellie Joel - "Everyone i've cared for has either died, or left me."
Ellie to Sam - "I'm afraid of ending up alone"
Tragic what ends up happening to her.
Well bro we aren't sure if she ends up alone... Maybe she ends up w dina again
How does she end up alone? She was living on a farm near Jackson. Whose to say she didn't return to Jackson? Tommy and Maria are still in Jackson. Dina could very well have returned to jackson. There's safety in number. I can't see Dina living by herself with the threat of infected in that world and bandits. There is no reason for Ellie to stay alone. There is a community with protection, walls, electricity, family and friends. She is going to want to keep busy and not be idol for thoughts to fester, what better way to take her mind off things than to be a part of something and help the Jackson community by returning to her patrols. The whole symbolism of her seeing the flash back of Joel playing the guitar instead of seeing him bleeding on the floor was symbolic of the process of her healing beginning
@@Loophole23742 I'm sure Ellie will find new bonds or maybe even get back with Dina, but those are probably much later. At that particular moment at the end of the game, Ellie has nobody else and is alone. Tommy is not what he was and is separated from Maria, and Dina left. Jesse and Joel are dead too, and even worse, no more Eugene. So Jackson is just a physically safe space for her, but probably feels less like home. But as u said, she does seem to be healing and accepting of her situation.
@@snipergod5216 Hopefully.
She's wearing Dina's bracelet when she went to the farm. She didn't call out for Dina and seemed to be just there to grab the guitar but changes her mind. It felt like she was headed back to jackson
People really wanted this Avengers style death for Joel and I’m glad they did their own thing.
same. Everyone screaming "bad writing," but their counter idea is "lets do a cliche ending."
SolidBoss7 I noticed that most people who hate the game haven’t even played it, they watch other people stream it or just read through the story and if the person streaming the game is negative towards everything because one death scene they can’t get over then the whole experience will just come off as negative towards the viewers. I enjoyed the game quite a lot. At first I wasn’t sure if no matter what I would like the game because I just really like The Last of Us universe but no it’s honestly a pretty amazing game.
Were programed by troupes in entertainment and when something flips it it's hard for some to swallow it.
I'd reather see an avengers style ending than an incoherent one.
@@Andreascarnero with all that time travel stuff don’t tell me about a coherent story lol
I finished the game half an hour ago, and this is one of the best games I have ever played.
Same
Skull Face: You too have known loss, and that loss torments you still. You hope hatred might someday replace the pain, but it never goes away. It makes a man hideous, inside and out.
I love how MGSV and TloU2 have the same theme. Both are about revenge and accepting loss
I’ll like to give credits to the trailers. I thought the story was gonna go a totally different way then it did.
Same, every trailer along the way kept me guessing and if the leaks hadn't came out I would have gotten almost 99% of my predictions about this game wrong
Maybe that's due to the trailers painting a false narrative 😂
Yea the trailer when it joel grabbing ellie but then in the game its Jesse
@@shaid1111 Lmao I can't imagine being so empty inside that you can't learn that the world is a whole bunch of grey, it's not black/white heroes/villains. It's a bunch of fucked up people trying badly to fix their mistakes. Abby is just as right, and just as wrong as Ellie. If playing through her section couldn't teach you that then you're lost.
Thank you! So many people complaining about this but I was so happy. It completely threw me when Joel died. I don't get what people were expecting from this game. I almost hoped that Ellie would go to the fireflies and be the cure again towards the end but that isn't what this game is about. It was never gonna be optimistic.
There's no denying that The Last of Us Part II delivers a powerful, gut-wrenching story for players willing to invest themselves emotionally into it, but I wish more critics would talk about the game itself just as much as they talk about the story. Being generous, the story only accounts for about 1/3 of the whole experience. This is still a video game and I don't want to see aspects of what make it so beloved be overshadowed due to a well-told story.
A summary of some things about the game worth mentioning that these guys didn't get to:
- Level design is very well-thought-out for a majority of encounters. Most levels account for approaching them from vastly different angles and one person's experience in Level X can be much different from another person's experience. Sometimes even running away is a viable option! (At least on the moderate difficulty level) There always seems to be an escape route for the player in most scenarios and if you find yourself cornered by the enemy than most of the time it is because of a miscalculation or sloppy decision you made.
- The sheer amount of new, convincing and subtle animations and mechanics that make the world more believable and frightening. Seraphites communicate by whistling and hand gesturing that the player doesn't understand. They feel different enough from the Infected and the WLFs and were a refreshing blast to fight every time because you are sold on them through their animations alone. WLFs introduce a dog mechanic that changes the way the player plays the game. Dogs track you! If you are playing on a higher difficulty level or want to go the stealth route then you're going to have to find a way to constantly be on the move to not be caught by a dog. It increases the level of difficulty if you choose to play this way, so some people might love the dogs while other people might hate them. Bobbing and weaving through Infected is an adrenaline rush due to a combination of many systems coming together! (i.e. dreary atmospheric lighting; the sounds the Infected make and how those sounds reverberate through an already tense atmosphere; the low bass hum that is constant throughout the encounter and ramps up as you get closer to danger; having to find a way out with limited ammo and explosives)
- Enemy artificial intelligence can still be clumsy. The final result doesn't reach the level of enemy AI awareness that was first promised in the scripted E3 2018 demo of the game, but it gets close. It's better than previous Naughty Dog games but enemies still line up in front of the player ready to be killed instead of strategically playing to win. Yes the occasional enemy will try to sneak behind you but oftentimes it feels like a cheap maneuver and not a coordinated attack. It happened more and more in the late game for me (I played on moderate).
- The upgrade system is rewarding! As you continue to play and unlock more upgrades you begin to feel much more capable in fire-fights even as the difficulty of the game around you rises. You will find yourself having to make tough decisions such as, "Do I add a 4x scope to my hunting rifle to better take out enemies from a distance or do I increase by pistol's stability and capacity to better handle small encounters". You can choose to entirely customize the way you play through the decisions you make upgrading guns and skills.
- There are 3 large-scale, complex "set-piece" moments in the game where the player is on rails and the entire game turns into a summer blockbuster movie with carefully timed explosions and debris destruction. Love them or hate them, Uncharted 4 only had 1.
- NO LOADING SCREENS. (Unless you die of course. Even then those loading screens last like 6-7 seconds and from an engineering perspective that is insane.)
Very nice. Yeah level design is insanely dense and interesting I love it. Also gun-play easily the best I've ever encountered thus far in a video game particularly in regards to the sound design. Every shot and every bullet has weight as well as impact. Not to mention the moments when you've got done reading letters and after you kill a person you hear the name of said person whom wrote that letter called out. This is really impressive interactive world-building on a level that we've not seen before and I'm loving every single moment of it.
story is generic af....mgsv did it better and other games as well
You hit the nail on the head bro. I couldn't have said it better myself, this game is a true marvel.
@@Masterpain33 Although incredible, MGSV's gunplay, stealth, and combat is inferior & cartoony compared to TLOU2's. Killing enemies in MGSV is so unrewarding with those crappy dated animations and performances. And although not perfect, the enemy AI in this game has much more life in it. How they communicate, attack, flank etc. they actually feel like a threat.
One thing to consider about enemy AI. Playing on Survivor resolves a lot of that. Their tactics are pretty intense on Survivor and due to them being so lethal, it just takes missing one enemy coming around the level to die.
They also force you out of cover a lot. You have to make your shots count.
Missing a couple fingers....
You only need 3...
wow I forgot about that
Wow that totally went over my head holy shit!
Damn, that’s wild...
Just finished the game, took me roughly 28 hours. Oh man what a game! I've never been as emotionally shaken and devastated as I was playing this game. This game doesn't have a classic hero, it just has survivors whom have gone through hell and all have deep depressing stories. In the famous words of Tess "Guess what, we're shitty people, Joel. It's been that way for a long time". The game portrays beautifully what happens to humanity when we kill what makes us human. For me and countless of others who were screaming at Ellie when she keeps on doing what she's doing, you have to understand what her world view is. She is a broken person. I don't mean that in a derogatory sense, but she has suffered A LOT and suffers from serious mental illnesses that prevent her from operating in a rational sense. Her world was Joel, and he was taken away from her. "Everyone I have cared for has either died, or left me. Everyone - fucking except for you! So don't tell me that I would be safer with someone else, because the truth is I would just be more scared".
I seriously hope they found the light, both Ellie and Abby.
This game is an absolute masterpiece that has left me shattered in so many ways. The things that I took from it are going to last me a lifetime. I believe this game transcends "gaming" and I find it difficult to rank it in my game list. For example, I loved God of War and such a fun time playing it. Similarly, I loved Last of Us 2, but I did not have "fun" playing it. The experience was extremely emotional and depressing at times. However, that's the beauty of games, they don't have to be fun to be good. This game is a must-play/experience. I think this is the most special game of all time and for that I believe it's my all time favourite gaming experience. However, I don't think I can play this game ever again.
I agree. I'm not sure I can play it again. Certainly not for a while.
I played through it again even though I felt exactly the same as you, partly because I was left feeling quite down about the ending and I wanted to look for more positives. I found them, to answer your comment about Ellie and Abby finding the light, there are some subtle clues that they both did:
The home screen after you finish the game is a shot of Abby and Lev's boat on the shore and the building in the background is Catalina Casino, on Catalina Island, where the Fireflies said they were, so they made it.
For Ellie, in the final farm house scene she's wearing Dina's bracelet again (which she is not in Santa Barbara) implying she's been to see Dina and J.J. in Jackson already and that they have reconciled. Given that the pivotal moment that breaks the cycle for Ellie is the thought of Joel on his porch and the conversation they had about Dina, it's a really nice detail.
Finally, even thought she can't play the guitar Joel gave her, she has the moth inlay from its neck tattooed on her arm, so she'll always have that as a memory of Joel. Hope those bits of info help you or anyone else struggling to come to terms with the story... :)
I agree with most of what youre saying but honestly even though the story was dark i had alot of fun playing it, there were some nuts gameplay in it. Loved sneaking around in the grass etc and there were many great horror sections too.
I agree 100%. I loved and hated it at the same time. I wanted the characters to make different decisions time and time again but understood why they were making the ones they did. I got immersed in their world and it was a dark and depressing place. When I started playing Abby I didn't want to. By the end I didn't want to stop. I was so annoyed at Ellie for leaving Dina at the farmhouse but when it was over I was glad she did because she saved Abby and Lev and herself. In the end I think for Ellie it was about regaining power and control of her life. In the hospital Joel took her choice away. When Joel got killed she was powerless to stop it. When she is in Seattle she is driven by her vengeance and is unable to stop doing terrible things. When she first faces Abby she fails and is only able to beg for Dina's life. It was only when she finally has Abby beaten and is at the point of killing her she gets back the power to make a choice about her own life and chooses to regain her humanity by letting Abby live. I felt traumatised by the end of it but it was a powerful story like any great tragedy and I'm glad I got experience it. Its been two days and I can't stop thinking about it. Now I know about the bracelet bit which i missed and the picture which I didn't know was Catalina helps me process it by giving me hope that Ellie and Abby have found a little peace cause i loved them both.
@@dorkangel1076 damn man that was a really interesting view on the ending, i really like that. My hope is still that when Ellie put the revenge behind her she goes back to Dina.
The game had a profound impact on me, but after finishing the game my immediate thought was...in Ellie's relentless pursuit of revenge, she ends up saving Abby and Lev's life, by taking her off the pillars. This made me feel all that emotion in the game so vividly.
Somewhere in the final parts of the game, I suddenly remembered a moment from the first game, when Joel offered Ellie to go back to Jackson right before getting to the hospital, and Ellie said “It can’t be for nothing”, meaning after all that they have done, they must carry on.
In this game, Naughty Dog has taken this statement to the extreme to tell us that sometimes it CAN be for nothing. Ellie did all the things she did just to get to Abby, and in the end she just couldn’t finish what she had set out to do. Ironically the trophy for beating Part 2 is “I did what I had to”. This is what Ellie is saying to herself to justify her actions and the fact that she has lost everything along the way, (her partners, her fingers and her morals). In reality, a lot of people do this to cope with their trauma.
I also think that the game in some ways tried to tell us that hating something isn’t all that different from loving someone. Ellie fought like hell, overcoming all the obstacles in the way just to get to Abby, and ultimately, Ellie’s hate for Abby is what saved her and Lev at the beach.
By playing the game, I could feel everything that Ellie felt, especially at the farm house, where I am both mentally and physically exhausted, just to find out that it’s not over really devastated me and made me realise how messed up Ellie had become because of the things that have happened. No doubt we already know the message that the game is trying to bring across (violence incites violence, revenge is a path that leads to nowhere etc), but nothing has ever come this close to making me feel that it’s the absolute truth. Video games really are one of the best, if not THE best form of story-telling out there.
Thank you Naughty Dog.
Damn man exactly how I feel, well said
I have a different interpretation of the game but this was a good read. It is remarkable how different people can have entirely different takes for this game.
@@weaverquest What was your take on the game mate?
Cutter Elf yea I too would love to know what you got out of it from your perspective! 😃
7 playthroughs later I can say last of us 2 is my favorite game of all time, the rollercoaster of emotions, 4 different timelines, brilliant narrative & perfect gameplay, this is what every gaming experience should be, it's a true masterpiece.
What's so heart-wrenching is, in the Last of Us Part I, Ellie says "Everyone I have ever cared for has either died, or left me. Everyone, fucking except you. So don't tell me that I would be safer with someone else, because the truth is I would just be more scared" and then later in the game, she's asked "what are you afraid of?" and she says, "Being by myself. I'm scared of ending up alone"
In The Last of Us Part II, Joel died, Jesse died, and Dina left her.
.
Ellie ends up living her fear.
.
Ellie ends up being by herself.
.
Ellie ends up alone.
The crazy thing is that Abby and Lev would have died if not for Ellie - that was do powerful 😭
Joel and Ellie saved her life twice. And Abby let Ellie live twice.
Yeah, I initially thought if I play this again I'm stopping at the farmhouse. Then I realised if I did, Abby and Lev would die on the pillars. :'(
The ending feels pretty just for the story, by the end I was tired of the killing that lead to nothing, and I feel that's where Ellie was at. The characters are massively flawed and are often hypocrites.
I wanted to hate Abby, I did for a couple of hours of her story. I didn't end up forgiving what she did, but I understood it and I liked her battle with it - seeing how she's a hypocrite herself and softening throughout her story.
I think the pacing of the game was essential, it gave you time to brew on your emotions and develop them.
Abby never shows regret for her actions though. She's a murderer through and through and shows zero remorse. She kills Joel after he saved her life without even a hint of questioning it. She tortures people for the WLF. She hunts and kills the Scars without question until she meets Lev and Yara and then bam - she's willing to murder her friends and allies? She basically assassinated Tommy (how the hell did he live) while he was defenseless on the ground and was ready to slit Dina's throat. Comapre this to when Ellie kills Abby's group, she is visibly distraught after every encounter and its tearing her apart. She shows emotion about it. Abby is a robot in comparison, how are we supposed to sympathize with the person who brutally tortured one of our favorite characters and showed zero regret?
@@frostyrenegade_ She found her Dad dead, Joel had killed him and all the other fireflies on the way. She'd witnessed Tommy and Ellie come to Seatlle to kill all her friends and basically ruin her life whilst trying to kill her. Yet she found humanity through Lev. She didn't regret Joel, but she saw that as the end of it - him dying was that. In comparison to Ellie who couldn't stop killing, and even when with Dina she couldn't find an end. I love Ellie's character and I originally wanted her to kill Abby for Joel, but the journey they both go on was perfect, Ellie finally finds peace with Joel's death without killing Abby.
@@frostyrenegade_ "until she meets Lev and Yara" bro they fucking save her life, she doesn't just "meet" them randomly
@@BertoBeats Agree. I also see Lev "saving" Abby the same way Ellie brought Joel back from a state of walking dead. Lev stood there calling Abby's name not just stopped Abby from killing Dina, but also makes her realize the revenge on Joel, satisfying at the time, has scared her. She missed out so much in those four years and she wants a different life now.
Through Lev, Ellie sees Joel on Abby. That is why she could finally remember Joel with his guitar on the porch, remember his love. It is Joel's Love saves Ellie in the end.
Completed it yesterday night and will say this. 7yrs wait for this was worth it. Masterpiece❤
I still found it really hard to fight ellie as abby in the theatre fight. I kept dying just to see the different ways ellie kills abby 😂😂😂
I think Joel's decision to trust Abby despite the fact that she was a stranger is actual quite logical. In the first game, Joel was living purely based on his survival instinct. Trusting people would have definitely killed him. But in Part 2, 4 years had passed. He lived in a healthy community, had people he cared for, had a decent house and was starting to settle. People would come into Jackson to trade goods and buy supplies. Not trusting people would have been irrational since they were supposed to watch each other's backs. Now, if you were Joel and saw someone in danger, even a potential lone hunter, what would you have done? Also note that, they were in a pretty desperate situation and going back to Jackson wouldn't be a valid option. Abby, a person who was just saved, proposed a solution. How could he refuse? It was either that or getting killed by infected. To me it made perfect sense.
Like you said it’s not irrational whatsoever. Joel lives a big ass community of people. Most of those people had to have come from outside of Jackson and Joel had to be trusting enough to be able to live around them. If Joel was as paranoid as the internet wants him to be he couldn’t live there. The game does a great job at showing much Joel soften up in those four years and almost found some peace. Falling into 100% unlucky circumstantial situation isn’t bad writing. It’s just an unhappy coincidence. Life is full of those. There should have been no logical reason for Joel to think this random woman being attacked by infected was out to kill him.
Yeah that’s the thing they were surrounded by infected and just fought a ton of them there’s no reason to think they’re guna cause you immediate harm and even then Joel did start to get suspicious at which point they shit him. Like half of him was still surviving the infected while the other half was like hmm they do seem suspicious
i dont think joel trust them enough at that moment, he said he's just gonna ride out the storm. But i think he was kinda like 'forced' to follow the crowd like he had no choice, you can see it in the way he walks. What i don't understand is why tommy so relax, i dont know him much maybe he's just trying to be friendly because theyre out of number?
E1V1A The reconciliation was sad but it would have been worse if Joel had died not knowing how much Ellie still cared for him.
They introduce booby traps, but then they never come back for another section. I kinda wanted to see that mixed with an area where you can set two factions against each other
I really enjoyed this game. I think it depicts the stages of grief perfectly and that is what I think they were going for. After Joel’s death Ellie is clearly in the stage of denial and shock. That then turns into anger. Then finally at the end it’s acceptance and the realisation that what she does will never bring Joel back. All she would do is create another cycle of violence. I am not criticising anyone on their opinion of the game but I think people expect things to work out perfectly in an imperfect world. Heroes rarely die a heroic death and people make catastrophic mistakes until they realise that they need to change their actions. This normally happens at the crossroads of their life. Ellie losing two fingers at the end symbolises that she lost Dina and Joel to revenge. I think it is definitely an interesting character study and is somewhat overlooked by the mass hysteria over the game currently. She actually follows a similar path to Joel and because Joel chooses the selfish path of saving Ellie it stops him from being alone. Ellie makes the opposite decision and ends this constant cycle but gives up her life for it. She learns to forgive herself.
‘In taking revenge a man is but equal to his enemy, but in passing it over he is his superior’
Great quote at the end. Who said it? (If it's you I won't be mad)
I may dissagree with what you're saying but I totally get it. The Abby stuff didn't not work for me. By the end of her story I did like her a little but I found it impossible to care about the way the game wanted me to. But that's the story and that's all super subjective. Only real gameplay issue I had was the level design. The world is so beautiful and realistic I found it hard to know where to go. So much to explore i got lost a lot which took me out of it. Could have used some more subtle yellow paint in some places. 😂 But the Ellie stuff worked for me so damn much. Take on me made me tear up. Like overall it's a fantastic experience with some great moments but also some stuff that didn't work for me
Exactly man exactly and take on me was beautiful
I don't know how the Abby stuff didn't work on you. Had me wishing they would both lay down their arms and let each other live in peace by the end. I didn't want them to die, but I could fully understand why they both wanted to kill each other. The ending was so perfect, especially after they give you the fake happy ending right before. The game is fucking perfect. And I completely disagree on level design.
This comment.
@@BertoBeats the Abby stuff didn't work for me either. I played through most of it just wanting to get to the ending asap. I know what they were trying to do, but liking it is a whole other story.
Yeah, same here. I didn't really enjoy the Abby bits. I think my expectation was too high as overall I enjoyed & liked the first game more.
Oh and coming over the hill in the end and seeing the boat from the title screen gave me chills.
Part 2 is probably my favorite campaign I’ve ever played.
I have loved the game, I'm on point with all of you, but my understanding:
1 - I agree with Joel in every little thing he did on part 1 to save Ellie, and like him, I'll do it all over again, even if she hates me, I know it is selfish but I think Ellie's serves a bigger purpose to the world alive than dead, even if she is the only cure for mankind. I would do anything to protect her from any harm, you can't take that away from me and from Joel. Every person he killed in that hospital including Abby's dad wasn't out of someone being mean, he killed them to survive, to protect Ellie and himself. I can't fault him on that(my opinion).
2 - The revenge story was well played by ND into making us think that this is Ellie's revenge story, while the whole time this was Abby's revenge story(we just come to realise that after we played as her). The revenge is with her since the day in the hospital when Joel saved Ellie and killed her dad in the process. If you pay attention to the conversation that Marlene had with Abby's father and asked him what he would do if it was his daughter, he can't answer to her, the conversation is cut there and Abby then tells him (just like Ellie told Joel) that if it was her, she would've wanted him to sacrifice her for the good of mankind. So Abby is plotting this revenge, working towards this goal for almost 5 years, she is consumed by hate so deep into her bones that she is completely alone by the end of it, she lost Owen to Mel because she couldn't see past the hate and the thirst for revenge, she lost everything just to kill Joel.
Ellie is the collateral of the fallout. As we see throughout the flashbacks how the relationship with Joel was so strained due to her finally finding the hard truth that he lied to her multiple times and now there is nothing that can be done and that he killed everybody to save her, it crushed her and the relationship and trust they built throughout the first game. But, we see in the last flashback how much she loves Joel and just by the time she was willing to start trying to forgive him, he was taken away from her, in front of her, in the most brutal way, and she will never have the chance to actually work things out with Joel, the only person in her entire life that gave up everything for her, that took care of her, that loved her unconditionally, that CHOSE to be her dad(how many of us get to tell that we have someone like this).
So In my opinion, I really enjoyed Abby, I see where she is coming from, she is a great character, but this is not Ellie's revenge story, This is Abby's revenge story and this is Ellie's acceptance story, a story of loss, of guilt, of forgiveness, of letting go, and understanding in the end that hate consumes everything, that hate will take away your soul, that will leave you alone, that will have you come back to an empty house, that this vicious cycle of violence has no point, the only thing is that to learn all of this she had to lose it all, but in the end, we all need to learn to let go.
Abby realised everything was not worth, a little earlier than Ellie, because she, like Joel found her "Ellie" in Lev. And now I make the argument, would it Abby sacrifice Lev(her only people) to save mankind? What would you do when you lost everything and the only thing that's keeping you from losing yourself is the only thing that could save everybody else? After the same world took everything from you.
Is a gut wrench story, I loved every second, ND outdid themselves. I'm forcing myself to believe Ellie is walking towards Jackson and Dina and not to the road by herself, and that is the only part that makes me sad in this game, is that small piece of my brain thinking she is all alone.
Extremely well said, depressed me to think of what joels last thoughts were looking at ellie, boy oh boy
Hands down the best description I’ve read of this game couldn’t agree more in my opinion this game is a flawed masterpiece. And it’s so heartbreaking that she’ll never be able to forgive Joel and her only memory of him (the guitar) is left in the farm house. She also loses everything in her quest for vengeance but she grows as a person realising just what the hate for Abby cost her but I’d also like to believe she reunited with Dina in Jackson and explained to tommy she broke the cycle of hate that had consumed her for a long time.
Pedal Strike post this comment on other channels this is great 👏👏👏
It is so liberating to read such comments when there is so much hate and misunderstanding towards the themes and goals of this game. Well said !
Phenomenal description. As the song at the start goes "If I were to lose you, I'd surely lose myself." Ellie lost Joel and eventually lost herself.
I just want to take a moment to appreciate the comment section for actually discussing the game and not bashing it because Joel was killed.
I highly recommend everyone reads Vincent Canby's 1974 review of the Godfather Part II from the New York Times. It echoes a lot of people's frustrations with the game, from losing the strong lead of the first one (Joel/Brando), to having two disconnected plot lines that don't add but inform the existing story (Vito and Michael/Abby and Ellie) and the generally more glum tone and slower pace than the original. Nowadays, many not only consider Godfather Part II as one of the best sequels of all time and one of the best films of all time, but also better than the original.
@TLOU2 is GOTY in 2020 Ned's death was unheroic and it wasn't what such a beloved character deserved. Doesn't mean it wasn't great storytelling (and consistent with the logic of the world/consequences of his actions)
lmao you guys really are reaching so hard for a reason to justify the pure hate surrounding this game.
Also Return of the Jedi was pretty negatively reviewed on release
I also think people forget in the first game how Joel tells Ellie that he used to run with the hunters another indication Joel is a bad guy
Joel and Abby have the same exact arc.
@@iTrustInTheMusic I would say there are similarities but I don't think it's exactly the same
I've been on media blackout for so long, so finally finishing the game & seeing you all feel the same way about it is a great feeling. I totally agree with Blessing about rooting for Abby at the end which I really wasn't expecting. Also, I appreciate Steimer picking up on things that I didn't consider. I love how this spoilercast is almost 2 hours long and you barely scratched the surface of what the game has to offer.
The only thing I disagree with is the idea that we should have been the one to kill Joel. For me, that scene is so powerful in the way that we're made to feel powerless. Ellie is screaming and begging for Abby to stop, we as the player feel the same way. So when Abby hits the final blow we feel devestated & we can tolerate Ellie going to such lengths for revenge. If we controlled Abby at that point you don't feel the same desperation, and we'd feel guilty for our part in Joel's death rather than being able to direct our anger at Abby entirely (so we can undo the anger towards her later in the game).
That's exactly how I felt about the Joel death scene. I had nothing spoiled for me about this game. I watched the reveal trailer and that was it. When Abby is killing Joel I was desperate for a button prompt to do something to stop it. Then I spent the next 10 hours thinking about how good it would feel to get revenge. Then I spent 10 hours realizing Abby was my protagonist maybe even more so than Ellie. Fucking brilliant storytelling.
Adding to the astronaut bit and ellies interest in space. When u go inside Joel's house the book in his bedroom on his nightstand is a book called space for dummies. He was trying to learn about space because ellie loves it. That really touched my heart
Playing this game felt like watching 8 seasons of a TV show: arcs, side plots and everything.
You don‘t play the game, the game plays you. Masterpiece.
absolutely
33:35 thank you for that! It pretty much broke me at the end that Ellie literally lost everything so I also had to imagine that she goes off to find Dina, especially since she still wears the bracelet Dina gave her so there obviously is still a bond between her an Dina (at least from Ellies perspective)
And your reasoning behind that made me believe it even more and actually made me much happier with the ending! Thank you!
What I love most about the ending fight scene was the drowning was going on for so long that I wanted her to stop and that was when Joel on the porch flash happened. And it was such a great moment because in that scene Ellie tells Joel that she doesn't think she will be able to forgive him but she is willing to try. Just a great way to bring Ellie back from the point of no return.
For anyone wondering, the title screen at the end was Catalina Island
When I killed the owner of a dog and I realised the dog was crying and would not leave the side of their owner.
If you google Catalina that building comes up. Abby and Lev made it.
Upon finishing The Last of Us Part 2, I can't help but to think that Ellie and Abby could actually be great allies. They share(d) the same motivation in life, previous to their mirror image trauma, which is to work with the Fireflies to find a cure and try to restore humanity.
I really wanted them to team up at some stage and talk. Best we got was the walk to the beach. I don't think Ellie even knew Joel had killed Abby's dad and thought it was just about the cure. Abby didn't know Joel was like a father to Ellie and if she'd called him dad rather than Joel she might have reacted differently (reverse Martha?)
When they said Owen was protecting some scar, I thought that was going to be the kid from the aquarium stories
I only have one complaint about the story, Tommy shouldn't have encouraged Ellie to go. I think it ruined Tommy's character, and it probably didn't need to be there.
I agree
I think that was the point. Tommy was never one for revenge and would’ve told Ellie to let it go under any other circumstance. But at the end, Tommy lost a lot. He lost his brother, ability to walk and see, his wife, and eventually his humanity. To me, Tommy at the end was the symbol of Ellie’s past. His obsession and hate for Abby mirrored how Ellie’s feelings were prior to the scene. And Dina was the voice of reason in that they should let it go and she acted as Ellie’s would be future. Tommy and Dina arguing outside, in my opinion, juxtaposed the inner fight Ellie had with wanting a better future but unwilling to let the past go.
@@Ahmalik_Yaaz exactly
@@Ahmalik_Yaaz Agree. They represent two paths she can take. One is destruction and other is hope.
I feel like the point of the game is that its not only about Abby and Ellie being blind to each other about revenge but also about how blind the players who eagerly want to Abby. They really want to kill her but never considered that it would leave Lev in a state similar to Ellie's in the first part of the game. The players never saw themselves as someone who is just as bad as Abby earlier in the game where she killed Joel. Killing Abby would be like killing Joel and leaving Lev after killing her will turn him into another 'Ellie'. Both these players and Ellie have become something they hate.
Ellie also has to pay the price for pursuing Abby. Regardless if she killed Abby or not this cost her the family she had with Dina. Now she is all alone and this is the price she pays.
Agreed. I would go as far to say anyone who thinks Ellie should have killed Abby at the end is basically saying that Joel deserved what he got and worse.
That farm section with JJ put me on edge while walking around . I thought Ellie or dina was going to be sniped then when you go to collect that little lamb .... but I also thought that was the end of the game.
Yeah same. I would've taken my time and taken in the scenery more (absolutely gorgeous!) but I assumed something horrible would happen, and that would be the end of the game. I did NOT expect an additional 3 more hours of the game left, haha
It’s the most important video game I’ve played, jaw droppingly incredible
For me the Abby part was Way too long and I kept wondering when it was going to end. It made the game drag on for me. I also didn't like that they made Ellie choose revenge over starting a family. That being said, I would give this game a 9/10. Still a great game!
@@shaid1111 If you still think Abby is two dimensional, even after listening to this vid, you were too consumed with getting it over with to pay attention
I was emotionally wrecked when I started playing as Abby. I hated her, like Ellie did, when that section began. By the end of that half of the game, I was almost to the point of wanting Ellie to die. Both characters are so incredibly well done. When you come across every one of her friends that you brutalized and murdered, I couldn't stop tearing up. That whole section broke me. If you're actually paying attention to what's going on, you should feel enormous guilt for what Ellie, and you as the player have done up to that point. The game is incredible. And the ending is devastatingly poetic. If you thought it dragged on too long you were mindlessly playing a videogame that you wanted to "beat." You weren't paying attention to the story, or allowing yourself to get invested in the narrative. Either that or you had this totally wrong rosy picture of Joel in your head as if he wasn't an extremely flawed man who put his selfish love over the future of the human race. And all you feel is that his death was completely inhumane and unjustified, which in reality it wasn't.
@Feverroneous I actually didn't think about the last thing you said. Now I am glad that she went there haha. As I've been having these conversations I think it was just the fact that I wanted to really play as Ellie since I know her from the last game, and the Abbey part came at such a high point that I was like when are we getting back to that.
Agreed 100%. There's no fucking reason why this game should be as long as it is. Absolutely ridiculous.
I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion or not, but I do not like Abby or any of the wolves despite seeing things from their perspectives. What happened to Joel is just unforgivable. I cried when Joel died
Justin then you’re a immature child
It hurt us cause we grew to know Joel. But the things Joel has done could be said to be unforgivable too. It’s all about perspective which I think is one of the points of the game.
@@TyroneBurns Literally the over-arching theme both foreground and background of the entire franchise.
That not an unpopular opinion. By killing Joel in the beginning of the game was a narrative gamble that I personal do not think payed off. As the player, you have a close attachment and history with Joel. This connection is too powerful. With Joel's death, this makes Abby an irredeemable character on the onset.
@@ILutchyou Not inherently so, but it's interesting seeing how the game forces people to consider multiple perspectives all at once. That in itself could be considered powerful writing.
"If i ever were to lose you, i'd surely lose myself"
😿😿😿😿😿😿
its just amazing how this game marries gameplay and story. The way the npc's name their characters that you killed , reflect the doctor that you kill in the first game. Him having a daughter named abby and really makes you think about all the killing you do (not that it matters tbh i killed them all in the name of JOEL).
Abbey’s part needed to be shortened a bit. I just kept playing not because I was interested but because I needed to get back to the theatre. That sort of changed when the young scars were introduced but first and foremost I just needed to get to the theatre again.
I agree with this. I really enjoyed the game, but for the first chunk of Abby’s part, I was expecting it to be quick and back at the theatre in no time. The scars really did the trick for me as well.
I agree as well but as the section continued her character started grow on me. Plus at each section i'd see a character Ellie has killed and am like i know what happens next.
I wish we didn't play as Abby at all, I hated her and that entire section of the game was arduous to get through. I was rushing through it to get back to playing as Ellie but it was so damn long.
Kristine Steimer KILLS IT with her analysis of the moth symbolism and how Ellie, who has been in the dark, is finally driving towards the light by the end of the game, seeking the forgiveness from Dina that Ellie was willing to try with Joel.
Something really incredible for me: In the Resort, the final enemy I ever killed, I killed by blowing out his right leg with a shotgun shell, having him growl at me to finish it, and beating him to death with a blunt instrument.
It wasn't until after, when things had quieted down and it was all over, that I realized what had just happened and what it paralleled. In the moment I was just angry, frustrated, along for the ride.
I was very, very ready to be done with the game at that point, which put me in the perfect headspace for the final confrontation right around the corner. Brilliant game
I was so worried seeing all the negative comments about the story but I finished last night and it’s probably one of the best games I’ve ever played. It’s for sure one that I’m going to reflect on the most. I can understand divisive reactions, but some of the hate seems unjustified in the severity of it.
I’m very curious to see if they’ll do any dlc similar to left behind, and what exactly they would explore with it.
Tommy's journey to Seattle maybe?
@@harveytwo-face8083 That sounds awesome! Maybe even something with Joel and ellie before the events of the 2nd game, so we get some good old Joel and ellie time like the old days
Wow... what an incredible experience. A game hasn't made me feel this way since Halo 2. I had know idea we would be playing as the Arbiter but i grew to like it which is exactly what happened here.
The fuck your comparing this to halo 2? The arbiter was actually like able and cool/interesting
@@RileyKeith99 This man just compared this to Halo 2........holy jesus.
the arbiter didn't kill anyone we cared about though and we didn't have to play as him trying to kill off anyone we cared about.
uhh homeboy tried to annihilate the human race
XXRjKEITHX Keith so were the wolves and Lev n shit.
The endings in both games are parallel, but flipped. Abby's dad had a knife to Ellie and Joel saved her and then Ellie had a knife to Lev and Abby had to save him. Such brilliant writing. I miss the characters so much. Bravo Naughty Dog.
Just rolled credits on TLOU2 and immediately hopped over to the spoilercast! Keep up the great work guys. What a fantastic journey this game was.
I loved it so much. Glad to see you guys feel more or less the same as me. I don’t know how I feel though about Ellie essentially having nothing though. One part of me loves that and understands that it shows the cost of revenge. But the other just wanted something that was bittersweet more than just bitter.
She's wearing Dina's bracelet at the end in the farm house. So she's been back to Jackson already and reconciled:)
That sequence as Abby... With Manny fighting against Tommy. Homage to the sniper section in the first game. Brilliant!
I was pissed off the entire sequence cus I’m so bad at them and then when I saw it was Tommy I was like “lmao that’s fine”
Tbh I kinda of missed that she could not play the song at the very end, I heard she was making a mistake but i also took it as she was walking away but she also left the guitar because she also left her guilt behind as she never told joel hoe much she loved him and that she did forgive him. That scene when she said she will try to forgive him flooding back to me... seeing joel upset 😭😭😭
Absolutely love these discussions