The show is amazing so far. I hope it fixes some of the things I didn’t like about this game and doesn’t require someone to go into a deep analysis for everyone to understand
@@darkthelonious neil cuckman was held in check by other lead executives in producing the first game. the second part he really got to flip off the fans who had the "wrong" conclusion in the first game and actually sided with joel. who saved his new surogate daughter. the character who spits on joel after they murdered him, even looks like neil cuckman. so i think it's no coincidence. also the roided up tranny in the apocolypse. where'd she get the steroids from?
When I finished the game, what really hit me hard was that Ellie couldn't picture Joel in a positive memory until the very end of the game. After she had already lost everything. It was so heartbreaking.
@@NareinM The one flashback got me when Joel finally told Ellie he stopped the doctors from killing her and she realized she was the cure but it also kill her. Hard to take in.
"I don't think I can ever forgive you for that. But I would like to try." That line, alone, is the essence of the entire game. To try in an unforgiving world that has already given up. Glad you changed your mind about it. I'd say it's a great game that after a month since I finished it, I still think about the games implications.
2nd play through drove this home hard for me. It’s not even about saying revenge is bad as a message at all. It’s about trying. Simply trying. Ellie at the end isn’t completely fixed or saved or freed from pain, she is accepting the truth and trying....
It's truly nice seeing discussion for this game is still hot. I end up checking on this game every now and then ever since I beat the game. That's how impactful this game is. You're pretty spot on in this video, and noticed many similarities to your thoughts on this game and Neil's and Halley's input in the interviews. It really took rock bottom for Ellie to "bottom out", Halley's term, and snap out of her obsession with Abby and pain, trauma, and stolen opportunity she deals with
yes! I cried immensely at this part, as I had a similar situation with my dad, he passed away before we could have a startover in our dysfunctional relationship, and there will never be another chance
Troy’s lip quiver in that scene broke me. It sounds kind of silly but I have a newfound appreciation for how much one can act through just the face. (Troy Baker is the actor who played Joel fwiw)
Right? At the end of the game I just wish I could give her a hug. She was so broken our Ellie. I thought of this line so much, her fear became true. I was happy by the end of the game that she didnt kill Abby. By the end I was just like, "Ellie please stop this". When she gets her knife and points at Lev, my immediate reaction was "Ellie please dont do this, you will destroy yourself". I cried :-(. What a brilliant game.
Never hated part II, in fact I loved every minute of it. I loved both Joel and Ellie, but I understood that Joel’s actions cost him. And I understood Ellie’s motivations. And I even liked Abby. Why did I like the person who killed Joel? Because she found something other than merciless killing of scars because of Yara and Lev. Two kids of the faction she was fighting helped her see a greater purpose. And she even turned on Isaac and the WLF to protect the kids. The ending in my mind was perfect. Ellie found humanity at the time she needed to the most. I applaud Naughty Dog because they had the biggest balls in the industry to do a story like this. Yes the story wasn’t perfect but damn if it overall didn’t have an impact
Great points. 1. Naughty dog have big balls 2. I love abby too 3. Am I the only one who was happy for abby finding the fireflies? Who knows part 3 her and lev find them and join them. 4. I think abby is hot 😍
I’m the same way I love this game so much and I believe the ending is perfect. I heard one person say “tlou ended hopeful but with misery beneath the surface and tlou2 ended with misery but hopeful underneath” and I love that.
"Revenge is bad" is such a superficial, one-dimensional reading of this story. It's kind of assumed that you know it's bad. That's there, but it's not the point. It's about finding closure, learning how to end the destructive perpetuation of the cycle of violence due to tribalism and the refusal to forgive or to let go of past wrongs, facing the consequences of your destructive actions, learning to empathize with the pain of others and recognizing common humanity, how healing for yourself can come from caring for others. I absolutely missed stuff because this story and the characters are so layered. It's not a pleasant experience, so I get not liking it, and I agree that it could have been paced better and probably trimmed down in length, but this is a powerful experience, and one whose messages are incredibly relevant to "current year." You don't have to like or agree with everyone, but you should be able to come away from this saying "I don't agree, but I understand you. I see you and recognize our shared humanity, even with of all of your ugly hate, pain and suffering."
I agree, that is what it SHOULD be about, but naughty dog went about it terribly. They made Ellie just think of Joel all of a sudden and stop her violent actions? Wouldn’t it have been so much better if at the end of the game Lev stayed on the pole, was awake, and was able to see Abby and Ellie fight. Then while Ellie was drowning Abby, Ellie would look over to Lev screaming and crying out to stop. And then Ellie would make a parallels to her own situation with Joel dying and realize, that it is pointless. The ending that Naughty Dog chose was objectively just poorly executed and dumb. It’s almost as if the writers made it seem like we need to find some profundity amoung the mess of an ending they made; like we are psychic and can ascertain how she developed to get to spare Abby. I got that ending from “barnyard” by the way, a kids movie has a better revenge plot than a triple A video game.
@@mazokuwolf1279 so my interpretation of that was at that moment when she had Abby drowning in the water, that if she went through with that action, she knew it wouldn’t bring happiness to her. I’ve been in a situation where I’ve thought about doing something to someone but when I finally had the opportunity, I couldn’t do it. I hope that makes sense. On a side note, this is my opinion. It’s a work of fiction so I get why some people took it your way for sure.
@@EJD339 Yeah but that makes no sense. Why couldn’t she think about that will she was letting hoards of clickers on hundreds of rattlers? Yet she has a marvellous revelation that, “revenge won’t make me a better person” RIGHT at the end? I don’t think it’s wise to just go with that. For a story to work, character motivations need to be developed or explained.Without that understanding, we cannot understand their intention or motives.
Too bad the sentiment you describe is lost on everyone that defends and praises this game. But admittedly also the people who are hating on it. So I guess the message didn't stick. Sad how because this game has become a sort of front line for the culture war, we can't have a true productive discussion about it as just a game and just the game, it has to devolve into right and wrong and it has to either be utter trash or a masterpiece. It can't just be a game some people liked and others were dissapointed by. If you liked it you must be a woketard. If you disliked it you must be an ist and phobe and a haterz. Fuck this culture war I hate it, it ruins productive discussion a out gaming. Because narrativelt and gameplay wise there is a lot to unpack and discuss here, but it's not happening because muh culture warz. Gaaawd!
The first game is a story about regaining humanity. The second game is a story about the complexity that comes with that humanity. The good and the bad. That’s the simplest way I can explain it, but the characters and performances are so layered that I could go on for hours.
What complexity. Both Ellie and Abbie just try to kill everyone, without at remorse. I don’t care if they were vengeful, they killed so many people that had nothing to do with it, and then in the end: Flashback - Joel - Good. The game literally murders Joel bc they say he was a murderer and calls him bad for that, but Then in the end they try to say he was a man of mercy. And then Abby literally does so many things that Joel did too, and she’s good. That does not seem like that well explored of a humanity
@@willow_2312 Doesn't that just mean "the point" was poorly executed or entirely stupid though? Cuz they're right, we don't see that much "good of humanity" in this game, least of all in our protags, Abby and Ellie are just as bad as Joel here and Abby loses her douchebag friends but basically gains family despite being a terrible, vengeful murderer herself
I literally have spent hours and hours reading articles, watching reviews, analysis, etc. from many different sources... Now, it's been over a month and I can't stop thinking about the game, and no game had made me feel this way before. So I tried to understand it, now I think I got the point... So, thank you!
I have the same experience. months passed now and I very often find myself coming to check some videos on youtube with new analises. I love this game so much. Played 4 times already, got all trophies and still have the desire to go back to it. I am actually now playing the witcher 3 to get the trophy, but very often I just wanna pop the disc of the last of us part II back in and play it again
Same. I'll admit, I loved it. Every bit of it. Even the very hard parts of it. But like you, it's almost always on my mind. That's some powerful shit at work there.
I noticed it when Korra was added to Netflix recently and a lot of RUclipsrs were shocked at the complaints. It feels good to have more people defending Korra and sequels similar to it like TLOU2.
@5555Thecrow As if an avatar parallelism justifys bashing Joel skull in, letting us play with the killer for 10 hours and even wanting us to sympathize with her. Oh am I just focusing on the wrong aspects? That would basically mean, it's my fault for not blocking out every negative point of the game, not the Devs fault...
No, this is more like a fart in a smoke filled diner. I'm sorry that many people criticize the game you like for having obvious problems. That doesn't make them "spores".
@@loubloom1941 Oh look, another butthurt player complaining that there are people that likes the game he hated. GTFO, dude. Go watching one of the many vídeos having this game, like Angry Joe's or something. Boo hoo.
The story really covers the five stages of grief. Denial being the first part of the game where she’s telling him to get up, Anger goes through most of the game which is the reason she’s hunting for abby, bargaining is the revenge, she feels if she gets revenge she will feel better. Depression is all in the farm section of the game. And finally, when she’s about to kill abby she goes through the final stage, acceptance. As the video says she realises revenge won’t change anything and she finally lets her go.
You could also argue that the whole franchise is a parallel to the 5 stages of grief, the hopes of a vaccine getting back to the old world is denial, the 2nd game can represent anger and bargaining, and the 3rd game could possibly tackle depression and then acceptance, finding peace with a world that is now chaos.
Yes, and something else. It’s genuinely just about perspective. The game wants you to hate Abby so when you find out why she killed joel, you feel guilty for hating her. The reason it’s hated is because you need to be mature enough to understand it and smart enough, both of which gamers are typically not lmao. You need to be capable of empathy. The game is trying to tell you that there is no such thing as a protagonist and an antagonist, just normal people who make bad decisions no matter how vile and disgusting and repulsive they are. Naughty Dog does not want you to like the game, it is a mirror of life. It’s to show you that revenge is a vicious cycle and the only way to end it is to forgive. Life is not all sunshine and rainbows and The Last Of Us Part II does that exactly that. Games are designed to be a form of escapism, to help players escape the troubles of life by entering another one that’s typically considered better, TLOU 2 defies that and therefore defies what a game is. You expect escapism and instead you are slapped in the face and forced into reality, and that is beautiful and amazing to do. It was perfect. This is what makes The Last Of Us Part II (in my opinion) the only true next gen game in the past decade.
@@tylersaurus4702you’d also have to see characters in the game as real people and not care about someone you do as a real person If they developed Abby more maybe I’d feel sympathy
@@Aryan-qv5qk By developing abby more, what do you mean? I think for what the game is they did that because i personally empathised with her and i actually like her character. I enjoy to play as her and I frequently replay just her section of the game skipping the other chapters, what made you unable to sympathise with her?
Got this game the day it was released, completed it within two days, now it’s been a month still can’t stop thinking about it. No any other movies nor games had ever made me feel the way I feel about this game, the emotional experience through out the story from both part 1+2 was like riding a roller coaster. A masterpiece indeed!
bro the parallel between this game and the Last Airbender that you edited was amazing. this whole video was fantastic and I think slowly, a lot of people will come to appreciate and understand this game after the blind hate like you did.
Nathan Zed your video and this video are the first videos I’m going to send my friends once they finish the game. Y’all both really helped me understand what I could feel playing the game but couldn’t put into words.
Holy crap. That parallel between one of my favourite cartoons ever and videogames ever just made me tear up a bit. I'd not seen that coming, but it hits the nail on the head and goes to complement just how incredible both series are!
@TheUltimateGamer245 Basically, you didn't come here to have a conversation. You came here to reinforce on what your already firmly believe about the game, despite the video clearly viewing the game in a positive light.
Your caption on Joel's last scene with Ellie was spot on. I teared up when I read a review pointing out "she would be lucky to have you" is so much more than just a nice wish for the couple. It implies deeply how Joel views Ellie, that she deserves to be loved as anyone and does not need to die to "pay" for all the losses in her life and have a meaningful life, which is in stark contrast with what Ellie believes her life should mean. That's when I realized how hard the journey must be for Ellie to eventually accept Joel's view and actions. You are exactly right this game isn't about "revenge bad". It's a brutally honest reflection of two incredibly powerful and complex humans coming to terms with their own trauma and grow to be better. It does not shy away from the brutal mistakes they made along the way and forces players to participate that mistake and pain. It is perhaps too honest for some, but I hope eventually people mellow out and see perspectives as well as you do. Thanks for the video.
I remember going through this game and being so mad and depressed. Then, I got to last conversation between Joel and Ellie and immediately burst into tears because it reminded me of a conversation I had with my therapist. Forgiveness is a decision you have to make every minute of your life despite what you’ve been through or you’ll end up how Ellie was for most of this game (vengeful and losing more than she had to). I wish more people realized that message when the game was released, but I’m glad the TLOU community is finally circling back to it. ❤
I was filled with plenty of hate after Abby killed Joel. Played through Ellie for about 15 hours and then...had to restart as abby?! I was not happy, but took a couple days off and then went back into it. Kept thinking about how sadistic it was to make the gamer play as someone who I've been wanting to kill the past 15 hours of gameplay. But the more I played, the more I realized that Abby is just another person in this fucked up world. Joel and Ellie are fucked up too. We always judge others by their actions, but judge ourselves by our own intentions. The more I played through Abby, getting closer to the faceoff with Ellie, I didn't want either of them to die, but to reason it out with each other and...maybe become friends? The final scene made me break down entirely, when Ellie saw Joel with the guitar and let go of Abby. Ugly crying. I haven't cried like that in I don't know how long. Triggered me with memories of being wronged and bullied and, in that instance, made me let go of pretty much all the vengeful hate that I've been carrying all my life. Made me want to be a better person. I can see the criticism of the game to an extent, but the hate is not warranted. It's a great game.
@@Gautamiyer2 People that loved the game are the ones that deserve to be trusted. I would never trust someone who hates it, bc those are ruled by selfishness and anger
We were all too caught up in our grief and anger to realize what this game was trying to do. The world of The Last of Us is about more than just Joel and Ellie. By experiencing Abby's point of view and seeing the parallels with Ellie's motivations, the message is so much deeper than "revenge is bad". The message is that we are all the same. We're all just trying to survive and hold on to the people we love. There is no "us vs them", there is just "us".
So this excuses horribly written characters, manipulative tactics by the developers, and a horrible slow pace. I'm sorry but this little message you've come up with sounds like a bunch of pretentious garbage. I'm glad you've justified this game to yourself, but as someone who plans to write and get into storytelling, this game is written like shit. It's horribly fucking slow, with segments that drag on longer then the intro of this video. Disgusting tactics by the developers to push they're disgusting agenda. Oh how bold, "there is no us vs them, there is just us". Wow I guess if you're a freshman in highschool that's really original and interesting, but if you've digested any media whether it's movies or videogames, then you know it's a fucking tired cliche. Don't get me started on the "characters", they're all one dimensional with laughable motivations. The only interesting storyline is Ellie and Joel, and they throw that shit out the window faster then Henry punching out his clock. You remember Manny, that awesome character that wasn't just a racist stereotype that screamed spanish obscenities. Oh also don't know if you knew but Naughty Dog has a disgusting work environment, they crunch they're employees into working ridiculous hours, all so they can animate Owen railing Abby in 60 fps.
I feel like in the epilogue, Ellie feels like she may have lost a part of Joel, in a way, since she can't play guitar properly with missing fingers. I think that definitely also made her start thinking about revenge (which seems to be some people's only takeaway from this??), mourning, and the cycle of trauma. So it's not just "revenge bad" because she's alone and now can't play guitar (and thus has lost a connection to Joel), it's also about the cycle of trauma, reevaluating self worth, and letting yourself experience grief. A lot of people hated this game because, just like Ellie, they didn't allow themselves to mourn. The player is experiencing *exactly* what Ellie was feeling, and the longer you let it sit, the more your feelings align with hers at the end of the game.
@@rubyrudd1502 Couldn't have said it better. After beating the game first time I had a lot of negative emotions that I needed to let out, it's what was stopping me from playing the game again. It was not until I allowed myself to mourn Joel's death and accept reality I was able to play the game again with an open mind.
The portion with her unable to play the guitar was more about irony than anything. The guitar represented her favored connection/memory of Joel. Her journey for revenge cost her that connection/memory. But what’s crazy is maybe it made her realize she didn’t need the guitar, because Joel would be with her always.
Llama Llama no it’s not? Unless you mean people that faked hating it for the purpose of making that video. People genuinely dislike the game. Accept it and move on.
Llama Llama that’s false. How about streamers? They played it and disliked and haven’t changed their opinion. As have I. The same can be said for blind fanboys who are yet to play it. This game ain’t getting that and if it does it’s literally gonna be like 10 people doing it for clicks. The game isn’t loved by most. Accept this and move on. The games mediocre. Mediocre game stories don’t turn good from time 🙂 Also. Show the data that most are trolls or people who haven’t played it ;). There’s data showing bot accounts posting positive reviews for the game so guess u don’t know about that little detail..... God, this game is more fun to debate about than play and most of the time it’s just people throwing around inaccurate statements with fuck all to back it up but act like it’s fact
@Frankie Pollock “mediocre games don’t turn good from time.” Silent Hill 2 would like to have a word with you. (And I guess cult classics just aren’t a thing either)
I'm one of the few that loved it from day 1. Because I could see that the message was more than just "Revenge Bad". It's a story about what it means to be human. It's a story about how hard it can be to forgive, but how important it is to learn how. I couldn't have been happier.
The thing I always found hilarious, was how blinded everybody was when this game released. When they were all failing to see the bigger picture just like Ellie, just like you said. It's great to see someone go from hating this game to loving it, and you've given me a little more hope for the future fans of this franchise haha.
I understand, but for ellie to not kill abby at the very end? bullcrap, Its like if John Wick went on a killing spree and decided not to kill Iosef Tarasov or Vigo at the end because he feels sorry them, "Revenge Bad" is a good point if only ellie chose not to kill abby when she loss jesse, but no, they have to make her go and kill abby again only to lose everything at the end without killing abby. its bullcrap, just pull the trigger.
I don’t think there were a few of us, I just think the people that didn’t like it were a lot louder. I just played the game and enjoyed it, I didn’t go online to talk about it, but the people that hated it had more of a reason to constantly talk about it.
Right! Very impressed with this dude. Now of only the jokers of RUclips trying to jump on a hate bandwagon gave it the perspective it deserves. This game was absolutely a masterpiece and I don't see how this isn't the best sequel we've ever seen! I didn't want a last of us 2 but if there is one company to trust to pull it off it's naughty dog so I'll give them their dues for a part 3 because they have more than earned it
@Chris Grant gameplay really hasnt changed?? Are you sure?? The A.I is almost the best in the industry, levels are freaking massive, gunplay is almost naughty dog's best. the story is "identity crisis" which has never happened to me in any other game/movie. So idk "how" its mediocre. If its your opinion, its okay, but dont try to turn it into a "fact".
@Chris Grant Go back and play the original. Trust me, its VERY dated. I still love the original game, but the sequel surpasses it on EVERY level. From graphics to AI, from the sound design to the acting, and the story and characters. The writing is amazing, but is it a story for everyone? Probably not. Personally I LOVE dark character pieces, so this game was PERFECT in terms of what I was hoping to get from a sequel.. But I think some people were hoping for a Hollywood styled action adventure game with Joel again.. I knew I wasn't getting that from the announcement trailer.. But I can understand people disappointed they got something different.
I loved it from the get go, I got to play it without knowing the spoilers. It took me about 3 weeks to beat it. I didn't want to rush through it. When it gave control over to Abby, I didn't play it for 5 days, super mad and was just like nope. I went back and pushed on, doing the motions and at some point I emphasized with Abby. The rest of the game was torture for me. I still give it a 9/10. After playing and I finally got to go online and read reviews, watch videos, I was so shocked to see all of the hate. I didn't understand it. I watched several hate video breakdowns - I could see their point, but it wasn't enough to change my mind. Got to watch several love video breakdowns and usually, they pin pointed my emotional roller coaster with the game. In the end, I am glad I found a video where someone let go of the hate and got to really feel what they experienced. Thank you for making this vid.
My brother practically ruined it for me when he was saying that the game was getting shit on. And so I rushed through the game more than anything just to finish it to see how it ended. But I still loved the game too for every second I played it. The game was suck on my head for so many weeks day and night. Watching videos of it and seeing who loved it and who hated it.
lol, you forgive the horrible writing. Like, the cheap attempts at making you sympathize with Abby, or the lol open door get shot/ambushed and killed that happened twice in the game, when in gameplay, you get really careful around corners and don't just ramp through doors like its nothing. That's what everyone who liked the game says: "Look at how interesting this revenge story is and how significant it is to learn to forgive" , or " look how ellie and abby are doing the same thing that will hurt everyone around them" etc. When the rest of us are like "no way joel just gives his name easily", "why does ellie suck so hard at interrogating?", "Why is Tommy an asshole right now, when he used to be the pacifict in the last game?" "Why does Jesse get killed like that?". You guys just wanted to not feel like you lost something playing this game, so instead focused on the most basic of storytelling. the moral of the story. and completely disregard how the story was told, its pacing, etc. in the end, you forgave the writers for trying to tell you a basic moral of a story about revenge badly.
I find it weird that most people who like the game thinks that everyone who didn't like it chose to dislike it over leaks and others disapproval of the game. I have a few friends (pretty all of them that played the game) who had the same experience as you but all ended up not liking the game at all for mostly different reasons but mostly it came down to the game being ridiculously boring or the story being shit. Just because Anthem, Fallout 76, The Culling, or TLOU2 has a fanbase and swears it's a fun game and "a masterpiece" doesn't mean that they are right. It's just their opinion and that's fine.
@@mmmk6322 I dont agree. I also loved the game. Just to clarify, I love miserrable depressing shit. "no way joel just gives his name easily" - Why wouldnt he? 4 years in Jackson has made him more trusting. Thei policy seem to be taking in people rather then staying away. He is not the same jaded guy from the Boston QZ. why does ellie suck so hard at interrogating?" - She does? She is obviously emotinably unstable and compropmosed becuse of that but didnt get the feeling she sucked at interogating. Why is Tommy an asshole right now, when he used to be the pacifict in the last game?" - I found him very likable throughout the whole game until the end scene with him. Getting his brother killed brought back and old version of himself but at the end when he is being a dick to Ellie I straight away though of as a personallity change caused by severe head trauma (why he is also on a break with Maria, he is agressive and revenge focused now). "Why does Jesse get killed like that?" Hehe I didnt like that either but hey, tha happens, added to the realism although i would have liked to see him survive. I also thought Abb's point of view did its job. I didnt like her but I understood her. I also thought they made a good job making some of the other characters in the WLF sympathetic, especially Manny.
I'm right there with you at first I was making Abby just get killed over and over and finally just bit the bullet and started playing for real. Once you just let it go and lean into the fantastic gameplay you cant help but start to like Abby. Say what you want about her but you cant deny she is a certified bad ass. She hits like a tank and her weapons are so cool. Her and Lev are adorable and that fight with the Rat king? Only Abby could have done that lol
Man i already love how this game ages, I mean just type the last of us 2 in the search bar put it for more recent it is a masterpiece i hated it now i love it blah blah blah, 3 years from now, ppl are just gonna buy into sony consoles just for playing the second part, just like I bought a console to play the first, God knows i didn't regret it
@@PrestxnGG ehh it was just an initial shockwave thing, i mean joel's death really was shit but that doesn't kill the whole game, it is still great, and with time as it ages, it just becomes better
This video is brilliant man, it’s shocking how many people who hate on the game have never even played it. Emotions are a powerful thing and when we’re so angry we tend to ignore anything positive about something, and the fact that people got so angry shows how great a character Joel was.
there is 2 reaction good and bad for a story when the fan base is angry at a charachter inside a story its good BUT if the fanbase is angry at the writers them selfs then its trash
@@spikspak2889 You can be angry at the writers all you want, doesn't make the game bad. It's all subjective. Nothing is capable of making the game "bad" except general consensus and the general consensus is definitely that the game is good. The people who are upset are just the loudest, and they couldn't handle their emotions so they lash out at the only people they can; the writers.
I absolutely loved it. Its a really grey ending, not a back and white one. It leaves you thinking a lot. I understood what Ellie felt at the end but i guess one people can't empathize
At first I used to hate on the game my 2nd play through I saw later that they did try to do something different instead of generic, in return they still kinda did but ellies choice at the end made you question her entire journey which i still don’t like much if I’m honest
First of all, no...they aren’t. Secondly, hate had nothing to do with it. Ellie was gay in the DLC (6 YEARS AGO) and it got great reviews. I loved it. The story is bad. It is convoluted, hypocritical and has the dialogue of mediocre CW series. The “Verified Purchase” reviews on Amazon continue to decline... So many people are just apologists for deceptive marketing by massive corporations...because they drape it in tokenist fake “inclusion”... Sorry, when we get angry at billion dollar companies who lie in their marketing and abuse their developers and DMCA...it is not hate. It is righteous outrage. The corporate apologists are the real problem.
These are the same type of people who pissed and moaned about Silent Hill 3 and Primal because, OMG, the protagonist was a girl! Just a bunch of ball-less crybabies.
@FreeЯadikal you are just a fake corporate apologist. Ellie was the protagonist and gay in the first game DLC...SIX YEARS AGO. I am so tired of fake pro-corporate hacks like you who know jack shit about the game coming on to defend abuse of developers, abuse of DMCA and misleading marketing by billion dollar corporations. You don’t care about “inclusion” at all. The trailers (that everyone loved) showed Ellie as gay and the protagonist YEARS AGO! I don’t think you played either game. Get back onto Twitter where you belong with the rest of the “fake woke” corporate types...
Something you could find curious. Joel did horrible things. He then restored his humanity when he met Ellie. Abby did horrible things. She then restored her humanity when she helped Lev (and Yara). Now she is the Joel of the situation. Ironic uh? Abby became the person that she hated the most and ruined her life. :) Il love these parallelism.
I was focusing that more for ellie's arc, that how she is becoming the person she hates(abby) but i totally forgot or didnt just noticed that for abby too.. guess i have to play the game once again. Its complex af.
Joel also did horrible things to save Ellie, so overall he probably did more horrible things than good, but does not change, that his death was a poorly written chain of coincidences. How did Abby restore her own humanity with helping Lev and Yara? She betrayed her group and even killed them without even a second thought, it is even worse than what Joel did.
@@Priestofgoddess thats actually something i adore about tlou2, the writers made abby as a deeply flawed charchter, usually, when presenting two sides of a war, storytellers usually present the villians as "messiha". But in this game abby did horrible things in her past, but she wants to redeem herself now.
Priestofgoddess part of it was actually her realizing her group was just as bad as the scars, that she was one of the most active members of her group, and that despite her allegiance to them they were willing to kill her to kill a child
That aang and ellie comparison and the way you edited that went HARRRDDD, loved it so much. I love this game too much, it really has touched a lot of people deeply. Such a powerful story
I find the gaming community the worse people when things don't go their way. They are not satisfied that they did not like the game but they make it their goal to ruin everyone else's experience. They also go on to ruin just about everyone attached to the game and anyone that said they liked it. I loved this game for pretty much most of the reasons you pointed out. Yes you have the right to hate it for your reasons, and I respect that. What I don't respect is people sending the voice actress for Abby threats. What I don;t respect is people trying to force their opinion down everyone's throat because they think they are the only ones in this world whose opinion can mean anything. The responses to this review proves that point; why would you go to a video praising a game you hated and comment. There are plenty of reviews you can go to that hate the game and you can share with the gamers there. Celly, this was a great review and some great insight. You obviously thought a lot about the game after you were done and that is what a good story does, it makes you think about it, long after it is over. Keep up the good work and I look forward to more of your reviews.
That's a really good assessment: there's pretty strong tribalism within the gaming community that I can't stand. I hope that these more controversial titles we've had (TLOU2, Death Stranding) can help teach us how to discuss these things maturely.
I'm so glad I didn't let anyone opinion effect me because I loved the game from the beginning yes there are problems but what's a bit of art with out a couple of risks
Honestly, this game is human. And that is why I love it so much. They are all deeply flawed, and don't know how to see things from other perspectives than their own. Ellie and Abby, Abby and the Seraphites, The WLF and Jackson and the Seraphites are one and the same. Exactly like Ellie and Abbie. Flawed answers to what happens when we lose everything. This game fucking broke me.
It broke me too. From the parallels between the zebra and the giraffe. Abbys aquarium moments with Owen and playing nerf archery, her journey with sev across the bridge. I feel more for abby somehow. I feel she was the real hero after everything. I understand why she killed joel. It was her father after all he killed and a cure for humanity. Abbys relationship with Owen crushed me. I felt bad for mel too because I think she knew she was always going to be second best to Owen and Ultima alone to raise a child that never came. Then there's manny, nora, yara. Oh yara....😢
the hate for the game is human too, which is why i can totally understand it. but it is just the first step. We all HATED aspects of the game because it is human to do so. but it is also human to go beyond that and try to understand and forgive and make peace with what is. that is progress. the game FORCES you to do that to truly understand it. it challenges your humanity in the best way.
Just like the first game, the more I consider the themes and details of the storytelling, the game just gets better and better. I realized during this video that both Joel’s and Ellie’s interrogation scenes end with a metal pipe bludgeoning. I liked your point that Ellie tries to honor Joel by becoming him, I hadn’t considered that. The number of parallels and nods to the original game is so insane I’m always shocked when people say that the writers threw away the world they built in the first game lol.
STOP trying to put in shit that isn't in the game TO MAKE IT BETTER! The game is a plot-hole drivel mess. Characters are wasted and are hard to relate to. Fuck this game
MaybeNextTime what if I told you that the point of playing as Abby isn’t necessarily so that you will end up liking her. In fact, the whole point is that you see her as a monster because she is who Ellie is becoming. Abby is what you get when Ellie has a “successful” revenge. Even after Abby successfully kills Joel (Ellie’s Abby) Abby is still not fulfilled. You can see this because she continues to have nightmares about her father. It’s only after a profound act of selflessness (Lev arc) that Abby could have hope of restoring her humanity. If Ellie had killed Abby, then Ellie would have totally lost herself, never found forgiveness, and by extension never have truly honored Joel because all Joel wanted was forgiveness, and for ellie to be her fulfilled, happy self. You can say you didn’t like the story, but saying that the story is not thought out because your man crush died is, like, objectively... just wrong lmao
Dani M stop clutching straws man. The game is definitely trying to get the player to empathize with Abby. By the end, Ellie is clearly the more terrible person than Abby, at least that’s what the game wants you think. The story is not thought out because the whole plot relies on major conveniences and unbelievable choices made by out of character people. We all saw Joel’s death coming, but the way it was executed and all the retcons going it’s a pretty petty fucking way to kill off a beloved character.
You know what? After watching this and really thinking and seeing things in a different light I can actually see the genius in the storyline now. Just like you were at one point, I've been hating on this story HEAVY but I legitimately love the intricacies and details of everything and the way you explained it, even through the editing was perfect. Wish I could've understood this sooner so I didn't waste my time trashing it. Thank you for this video man.
The game plays with emotions that are so core to who you are and how you see the world, that I don't think it's bad that you hated the game for so long. The game's story asks the players to confront a part of their emotions that are honestly difficult to deal with even in a therapy setting. But it's... beautiful in a way. The game put you through things you didn't want to go through. That I didn't want to go through. And how dare those people put us through that? We'll never forgive them for making us experience that, for ruining what we loved so much. You have felt that hate, now you can choose to forgive, just like Ellie. You honestly have probably had a more profound experience with this game than someone who loved it right away. How can a game that does that to you not be a masterpiece?
I'm 38 years old. the first time I watched the ending I cried, like, tears flowed down my cheeks. watching this again in this video I cried like a 2 year old, i mean bawled. really I bawled. and it felt really good. thank you naughty dog and thank you for bringing out the light in this game in such an educational way
I'm 38 too and I agree. It felt damn good to cry and actually feel a cathartic release. It's been years since I cried over any media. That's why I just cant stop playing through this game. It just keeps getting better and the layers of understanding deepen each time. Cant wait for DLC and or factions
You’re one of the bravest people I’ve seen on RUclips, it takes a lot of courage to do a video like this when you could just go completely silent like most haters that changed their mind. Massive respect to you. Personally, I never hated the game, it did left me very conflicted at the end though, but if that’s what the game is trying to do, then good. Because in games like this the true qualifier isn’t a happy ending but whether the game delivers its message in relationship to its thematic purpose. As a wise couple once said, you can choose how hard the game will be, but you cannot choose the difficulty of forgiving someone. So in the end the true boss is ourselves. Nice day to ya.
This is the kind of mature, insightful commentary sorely lacking in this era of fan entitlement. You’ve not only done your research, you’ve brought meaningful comparisons to other popular franchises like Avatar and Star Wars. Bless you for this.
@@filletmignon5221 he is 60 something in the second game, wtf do you mean? how many people do you know that can do the things that Joel needed to do in order to make a game out of it?
You basically explained what I and many others felt playing the game first time around. I never cared what the haters believed, they clearly didn't understand the characters. Very well spoken/written, fantastic analysis.
Yeah, I loved the part where Abby the hulk smashes through the story and says she was happy to kill a pregnant women, and feels no remorse for her actions. It’s just so cool 🥰
Ehh they're not completely off base. The first trailer showing Joel as the one to grab Ellie and switched it with Jess it's completely false advertising. I'm not completely against previous characters being wrote off but between that and restarting as Abby when things go down at the theater is a real hot mess in story telling. Great game in theory and but poorly executed and false narrative is hard to come back from.
@SavVvy-y did you not notice how the game shows how good abby is and how evil ellie is? and who tf sends a pregnant woman goes out to the field IN A ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE...does she not care for her child???
lots of people actually understands the characters. they just hated the fact that IT HAD TO FUCKING TRANSITION SO FAST. TLOU is a journey game and doing such a thing is the dumbest and wildest thing one can do when it comes to ADVENTURE games.
I've been so confused with the hate about this game. Thankfully more people are seeing it for what it is. Thank you sir for sharing your change of mind!
I was spoiled by the leaks, and not enthusiastic about playing it. Then my friend Gameshared, and by the end I was completely blown away and exhausted. A masterpiece.
@@astronomical3342 8/10 is still damn fucking good considering that 10/10 is an impossable ideal to sugest 8/10 is avrage to good sugests just how haded the games media has made us in regards to this
When a loved one dies, whether it be a fictional or a real character/person, people will go through this thing called 5 stages of grief. In the first few days when the game dropped, people are struggling to cope with Joel's death(Denial, Anger, Bargainning, Depressed). But as time goes on, people would start to accept the fact that Joel is no longer with us and just move on with life. At least that's how I see it.
Those who hated the game the most, hated it before it were released because of perceived feminism and wokeness. None of that were present in the game, but the very notion of a game not being centred around men.
@@SummerOfMayhem 100% Every alternative plot they think "shoudl've" happened that I've seen recenters the plot around Joel and Tommy. Every single one.
@@SummerOfMayhem Two pregnant women in the front lines. A trangender kid that killed his mother because she was transphobic and didn't accept that her daughter wanted to a boy. A buff girl, that people accuse players of being toxic for not liking her. There was a lot of it this game.
I know how extremely late to the party I am but, I loved it. I finished both within 3 weeks and I loved it. Knowing more is in the works, it’s gory yet pure. I love the message in both. You’re willing to give the world for the ones you love even if others are hurt or even die in the process. Love makes you stupid. When you lose that love in whatever form it comes anger can be the fuel to the fire. You will do stupid shit for revenge but when it comes to it, you’re lucky to have had that love at all in this fucked up world. If you love something let it go, the best thing you can do is lead your life with the love you had as a core memory. Forgiveness may not be the cure for anger but if you can move on, you’ll be stronger than before. I love it. Maybe i read to much into it loving art like I do. But none the less that was my take away
Someone said it. I really needed to hear this people piss and moan about satisfaction but that isn’t the story this is supposed to develop ellie and put her through pain. This game is amazing
@@YourMom-fm1qo its absolutely amazing how much happens - I was kept guessing and suprised way more than when I played the first one and dear GOD THE GRAPHICS they're beautiful
OMG THANK YOU! If you just sit back and think about the game you realize that its such a masterpiece of storytelling and gameplay, and im so happy more people are realizing this and realizing that Naughty Dog made the perfect sequel. Also love the Avatar comparison, I never thought about that but it is very similar.
The firefly quote sums up both games. "When you're lost in the darkness look for the light". The first game is about the LIGHT in the darkness - optimism, innocence, friendship, and hope in a brutal and dark world, and the ending, despite it's darkness is about love. Tlou 2 is about being lost in that darkness. Losing purpose and filling that void with resentment, sufferring, hatred, and death. Only at the end, do the characters start to see the light again. Abby rekindles her belief in the fireflys, and Ellie forgives Joel, making peace with his memory.
"If I ever were to lose you, I'd surely lose myself". Ellie never finishes the song when she sang it throughout the game. This proofs that she wasn't able to accept the truth (forgive) and not that only she lost Joel, she also lost herself (revenge). But after she's able to forgive, she also let go of the revenge.
No, no that doesn't make sense...You can't forgive someone through someone else like that. That's like Luke forgiving Darth Vader for Obi-wan lying about his dad. Hence he forgives Obi-wan and let's go of his resentment. Or, you know, how Ben forgave himself for killing his dad by seeing his the memory of Han...
@@Jetblast01 She felt victimized because Joel was taken away from her, but she remembered that all of this weighs so heavily on her because she couldn't forgive. Letting everything go is her redemption and her way to find inner peace, she has realized that she is no longer the victim, the monster she fears the most is inside her, not inside Abby. If a Player can find peace only by seeing the "antagonist" dead regardless of everything then there is something wrong with the media we play. Abby's story arc is literally Ellie's cautionary tale. You hate Abby, because you are like her, your hate won't stop until you'll see your "antagonist" dead, just to realize that it wasn't worth it. And if you think it was worth it, then I'm sorry, but you don't truly care about yourself, and THIS wouldn't make sense.
@@Gabriel-Tár That's still dumb...this isn't a world or setting such pretentious thinking would work. See why Joel killed Marlene in the end of the last game...Abby is a straight up piece of shit that deserved to die for reasons besides killing Joel. She's literally no different from the NPCs you killed in the first game, the kind that are all "buddy buddy" with each other (until they died) but will brutally kill just about anyone and anything else (unless you have plot armor). All they did was give Abby plot armor so she couldn't do nor kill Ellie in return. And given your logic, guess Jesse could just go eat shit...since he didn't matter to Ellie. And it also makes Ellie a selfish bitch since this game it's all about HER and how SHE feels which isn't how she was in the original.
I played this game in a two day binge with like 4 hours of sleep in between (I died a lot, had food/ bathroom breaks and was pretty high) and loved this game for all of these reasons after getting back to the home screen. My partner watched me play and we had HEAVY discussions about all of the layers to the story and I cried enough for us both lol
TheBeaverInHD he’s not saying that. He’s saying it for the people who literally talk shit and say the game was complete trash or are sending death threats to actors and writers of the game just because the game didn’t go their way or they refused to see why the writers did what they did.
@@callmepsycho3132 It what way was that a joke? It seemed more like sarcasm. And why do they need to calm down? They didn't insult you, they never insinuated you thought or agreed with those things. He specifically says " He's saying it for the people who..".
It feels like I’ve been trying to say the exact same thing for weeks now but this video did a better job articulating it. Hopefully in the next month or maybe years, fans won’t be so blinded with hate and it’s definitely a game that needs more than 1 play through to pick up on some of the more subtle story telling aspects.
NO. Sorry but NO. I already traded my copy in and WILL NEVER TOUCH IT AGAIN. I couldn't even be bothered to even get the rest of the trophies. The game is ass, from the garbage ass story, from piss poor gameplay. I say it now and will be saying it 20 years from now. This game is a big "Fuck You" from Naughty Dog for people loving the first game. That is how I see it and forever will. I personally despise this game. Just like my feelings on MGS V The Phantom Pain have never changed and my deep founded hatred of it. Just like to this very day, I HATE Resident Evil 4, I hated it in 2005 and I STILL hate it in 2020. My mind is already made up and first impressions are everything. I will never change my opinion.
@5555Thecrow he literally linked his stream in the description of the video in which he played the game for the first time and in it the guy clearly hated the ending and overall the entirety of the game.
Spot on you got it. This is a game that holds a mirror to today's society, how wrapped we are in our egos and expectations, and challenges us to see beyond our perceptions/expectations. I have never played a game that challenges me as an individual. It is a powerful msg and one they were successful at conveying imo even if a lot people missed it. The game does require some reflection and with a second play through things start to become even clearer.
You didn't prove the story to be good. You just used emotive and pseudo-philosophical jargon to distort the reality of the story. You're welcome to like it, but you cannot say it is objectively good.
UPDATE 2: Finished my second playthrough. I understand all things. This game is a few changes away from being a masterpiece. The biggest boss battle in the game is literally yourself.its not about not choosing revenge, it’s about doing what’s right or choosing the truth even when it’s really really hard. Characters are not inconsistent, the writing isn’t bad, you don’t have to like Abby, the pacing is fine (for the most part) its just extremely based in the reality of what the last of us 2 world is. No sugar coating no unrealistic heroes ending we expect from games/movie. Just decisions and results. I think I can follow this up with a part 2 video of this one, and feel good about my effort to help people like it. Not going to check comments here anymore, if you want to talk hmu on socials UPDATE: couple things. This my first time doing a vid like this so I know it’s not perfect lol will learn how to be better with audio in future. My original plan was to make this 7 minutes so it wouldn’t be a movie but I just couldn’t take out any more from the vid. It was originally like 50 minutes lmao. This is NOT a review, this is my own journey with it. Finishing my second survivor+ play through, and I stand by most of what I say in this video still. I don’t think this game can be a true “masterpiece” unless a part 3 brings it home STRONG. There are for sure issues, I think many that people bring up are nitpicking, but there are a few things for sure that hold it back from being a perfect game. I’m going to do a video on this next, but the purpose of making this was so anyone who like me thought this whole journey was for the basic message of revenge is bad to realize it isn’t and maybe if you realize this you’ll see the game different. If you knew that and still hate it or love it awesome. Either way the discussion here is all over the place nasty and beautiful so I’m glad i did this in the end. Thanks for watching and if you want proof I actually hated it at first here is my immediate reaction to finishing the game lol: www.twitch.tv/videos/657042201?t=03h23m34s
Thank you for posting this. I was legit depressed about Joel’s death and literally grieved over it. The journey over the first game where I fell head over the heels for the characters, the storyline and cinematic views etc and to see Joel die in the manner he did tore at every fiber of my being. To then play as Abby killed me as I tried to make her jump off a cliff and die. Once I finished it, I felt numb. I still loved the new experience and would still play pt3, but his death...damn and especially since I didn’t kill all the people in the op room, but when u incorporated atla and the guru episode I legit understood your point and how she needed to learn to let him go. That Ellie’s behaviors are done in an effort to be like Joel, where he just wanted her to be happy and to be loved. So thank you again, you truly made me see this game in a different light and while I never hated it, I think I’m finally ok with Joel having died and Ellie and us (the gamers) learning to let him go as well.
Celly, great video and this is exactly how my experience played out. I think it is a masterpiece of the human condition. Ellie IS NOT Joel and our experience is of a lost soul trying to fill the void by becoming what was lost. This is why Ellie wears Joel's clothes & attempts his maneuvers interrogating. The other very important role is the setting: many of the major events take place in a theater. That was chosen for a reason. A theater is where you go to watch people pretend to be somebody else, right? We are participating in Ellie: The Play which makes a lot of sense if you remember the team did this... ruclips.net/video/jRSo4j51waI/видео.html
the slight detail around 22:05 when she says “but” (after Joel’s heart was just crushed after being told she doesn’t think she can ever forgive him), and Joel’s eyes immediately dart over at the prospect of anything to grasp onto. 😵💫
It was only once I realized that this game was about forgiveness, and not revenge, that I started to appreciate it. And now it's one of my all time favorite games.
fr, in south america we have a show where a character says something about revenge, it's very annoying when people always repeat what the character said when they talk about tlou 2
It was basically a domino effect with Joel’s action at the hospital. From there it was a Constant war of seeking revenge until Abby decided not to kill Ellie & Dina… then Ellie deciding not to kill Abby & Lev.
After I done watching TheRadBrad finish this game, I kinda get fond on the soundtrack of this game cause it's amazing, and I notice that there is one song called "The Cycle Continues" by Mac Quayle and this song was played during the fight between Ellie and Abby, the RUclipsr named TLOU Strategists said that if Ellie continues to murder people and forgets the people she loves, she will slowly becoming Joel and the cycle will continue if she kills Abby
I actually enjoyed this game the first play through but fell in love with it the second time. It was much easier to follow and I was way more interested in Abbys story. One thing that surprised me is how much I got attached to Owen. He was such a good hearted guy but would do anything for Abby which ended up getting him killed. I still think the game dragged on. It’s not a perfect but it’s resonated with me in a way that I haven’t felt in a long time. FYI: your editing is really good. This is the first video I watched of yours.
God I really loved your last point about part 2, that the people hating so adamantly on the game were literally being just like Ellie. It was like everyone became children who got upset, deciding "I don't like it" then stubbornly refuses to see any reason. I think those people shouting so loudly set so many people up to hate it bcs it made them go in Expecting they would and when you do that it gets a lot harder to enjoy anything
The thing is that truly believe that ellie had somewhat of a good ending theres a letter you find at the farm when you are with Dina and the baby. It's Jesse's parents saying that ellie and dina will always have a place in Jackson if they choose to come back home. And if you notice when ellie goes to santa barbara she was not wearing dina's bracelet but when she returns from santa barbara the camera zooms in on her fingers wich look almost completely healed we were focused on the fingers missing but looked completely passed the fact that now she is wearing the bracelet indicating that she has already been to Jackson and is living with Dina she just went back to the farm for the guitar but decided to leave it That represents her finally being able to accept Joel's death and bring an end to the cycle of revenge If you also notice when she enters the house she doesn't seem surprised that its empty and she doesn't call out dina's name, she doesent have her guns on her and she is wearing new clothes.
THIS VIDEO MAKES ME SO HAPPY THANK YOU, ive been trying to explain this to people and you FUCKING GET IT... YEESSS The cool thing is is that the message was never truly defined as one message, if you really take the time to think about it you can come to this answer, or even something like the destruction and pain that obsession causes. ITS FUCN GREAT. I think this games main flaw is the pacing, nearly everything else is almost perfect. The real tragedy with this story is that they never expressed their feelings for each other. I think that could have been handled better but the way the game turned out personally I dont think could have gone out any other way and still have the same effect. Maybe a few things could have been swapped around but what we got was a slice away from a masterpiece.
“Revenge is bad” is a surface level reading about what the game is about. It’s about the ends people will go to in order to achieve closure on the traumas in their lives, even if it means subjecting others to immense emotional trauma and the circular manner in which trauma is perpetuated.
Crazy Cletus sales doesn’t equal the game being good and did you see that sales dropped by 80% in the second week. Just because a game is hyped up doesn’t mean we equate the sales to quality because than anthem would be goat because of its high sales
@Ivan Teoh Shen Yue bro that's the entire point. if you notice ellie, as you progress through the game as her, u can quite literally see her go down a dark path. in the beginning, she notices her surroundings, and make comments on stuff you pick up. but as the game goes on, she stops talking to dina (very noticeable in the pride bookstore) and she stops noticing the world around her. she tunnel visions into killing abby (sorry if i used the phrase incorrectly, english isnt my first language). and when she had the chance to go get tommy as opposed to abby at the aquarium, she goes after abby. all this points to how she is getting worse as she kills more and more people. she had mental breakdowns after killing and torturing those people. i think it would be unfair to the makers of this game to say that killing those people had no effect on her after they put all that effort into showing that it is.
@@testing_something The dumb choices by the characters to further the plot is not great writing. This game gets too much hate but at the same time I laugh at people saying the story was a masterpiece cuz it was too forced and had too many flaws.
You know, i bought the collectors edition if this game and was sort of disappointed I did because I didn't really like this game. But after watching your very well done video, I LOVE this game! You've opened my eyes to a new outlook on this and for that, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. THIS video needs to go viral and every TLOU 2 player should see it.
Haha hey man I'm really happy u came around to it! I really liked this game from the start and it bummed me out seeing the hate it was getting. But more and more people and realizing the real messages and meaning behind it and it makes me so happy.
It’s epic too because it reflects real life. No real bad or good sides. Just people fighting for what they believe in. Loves that it makes us focus more on the reasons for human behavior, justified and unjustified, instead of looking at it as sports teams to cheer on for. RIP Joel
I think this game was supposed to really SHOW you how destructive and harmful blind rage and anger can be. You go on this killing journey along side Ellie for revenge at first but when you calm down a bit you're supposed to look back and see the horrific deeds you've done. But boy oh boy SO MANY people didn't look back and were angry that Ellie didn't kill Abby and didn't "get the job done".
@@That-Will-Do-It very real, like abby unrealistic body even bigger than many mens in a post apocaliptic world without roids or what about cordyceps not be possible to cure because the thing is a fungus not a virus, or joel being a "precaution guy" since the outbreak and suddenly without a proper context (not with those silly notes excusing things like trades with unknow people in a fucked post apocaliptic world). And what is for jerry? The guy literally saves a zebra to make the player feel empatize with abby, too conveniently way to do it. Or maybe putting abby character above everyone in the story for pushing a new polític character.
@@randomgod6371 1) Abby's body is not unrealistic; in game you see the huge, professional-standard gym that they have in the WLF stadium. You also see a field full of cows (good protein) to allow her to gain muscle mass. 2) You say that it's unrealistic that they were talking about a cure, but if you take issue with that, you take issue with the ending of the first game - the climax of tlou1 revolved around the morals of Joel stopping this cure to happen. 3) Joel is cautious. He tries to think of other ways to get out of going with Abby, but decides it's his best chance to get away from the massive horde + blizzard that their horses can't handle. 4) The zebra is to show Jerry's qualities as a doctor - he wants to save things. He wants to save the world from this virus. On top of that, it's a nod to the giraffe moment in the first game - it shows the player that Abby had her own "last of us 1", where she survived the apocalypse with her own father figure. 5) Wtf are you talking about? What is a "politic character"?
Actually, the game was about the by product of revenge and violence. Not the characters and player in no way felt remorse or emotion killing the characters at all which is why many felt disappointed that Ellie basically didn't finish it off.
I'm so glad other people see the same story that I'm seeing. The Last of Us Part II is a game about grief and forgiveness disguised as a revenge plot. Never does it preach to you about revenge being bad. In a lot of ways it's exactly the story we expected -- Ellie finds out about Joel's lie and the truth about the fireflies, and their relationship deteriorates as a result. We knew this would happen based on the ending of the first game. We're left with the question of whether Ellie can ever come to peace with what Joel did and forgive him, and the game answers that. The twist is simply that this comes postmortem. Joel is dead by the time Ellie realizes she fully forgives him, but that just makes it so much more emotionally potent. At the end of the day, a huge part of the reason Ellie has the self-destructive tenacity that she does (symbolized by her moth tattoo by the way) is that she holds onto an ocean of grief that she was never given the opportunity to deal with. She told Joel that she *wanted* to try to forgive him, but he was killed the next day. The opportunity to heal herself and her relationship with Joel was stolen from her, but when she realized the Abby she wanted to kill was already dead, she was left with the realization that all the things holding her back from moving on were either arbitrary or gone. She could no longer see Abby as the devil she thought she was, and even more importantly she realized that she had already forgiven Joel somewhere along the way. Their story ended in tragedy, but they both knew they loved each other, and there's beauty in that. Ellie walks away crippled both physically and emotionally. She was seconds away from losing herself completely, but chooses to walk away from Santa Barbara with some of her humanity still in tact. TLOU Part II isn't just a story about hatred, or Abby, or even revenge. It's a conclusion to Ellie and Joel's relationship. It's finality. It's painful, but there's still beauty in it -- and that's simply the reality of the world of TLOU.
Forgiveness is not found in the game. Acceptance and loss is the real idea. The issue is that the actual main theme of this game is a commentary on violence and revenge which it doesn't execute well. Those who say it is forgiveness o my say that as an interpretation which means they are looking at it in a theoretical view which if course is generally discarded.
I don't think it would be good for Ellie to die in a sequel, because I feel like a lot of her journey is to accept that she doesn't have to die for her life to have meaning.
Ya I would HOPE they’d let her give her immunity to the world and then live and see the effects of it and be happy w Dina or something but I could see them tearing our heart out again lol... but in this game she does say she hopes to live old like Eugene did so maybe that’s a hint
4 года назад+8
Given the entire basis for why Joel became the enemy in the first place a move like that would make it all ironically 'for nothing'
@@CELLYgg She's had a death wish ever since Riley died ("I'm still waiting for my turn") and sacrificing herself for the cure would very much resolve that, but like everything else in this series, it's all motivated by grief and trauma rather than altruism (not that Ellie isn't a nice person in general, but that's not why she wants to sacrifice herself). When she decides to try to forgive Joel in this game, that means she necessarily has to confront the idea that maybe he saved her for a good reason. Maybe she really can move on from her desire to be a martyr and live like a normal person. And yes, considering she says she wants to grow old, I think that's a big hint. Chronologically, she says that the day after she decides to try to forgive Joel, so I think it keans she is trying to understand his perspective (that she just deserves to live, period). When she leaves behind her obsession with Joel at the end, I think she's also leaving behind the idea that she has to die for her life to matter, since that is all wrapped up in her angst over him and what he did, taking her chance to die away from her. EDIT: Or at least she is beginning to leave it behind. It's not like you can just turn these things off all at once. But she is accepting that just MAYBE she can have an actual life.
I think what a lot of people fail to understand is that Joel’s death was meant to evoke the emotional outcry we all had. You were meant to feel shock, denial, depression, fury, and hatred. Why? Because it helps you connect to Ellie. Then when the POV flips to Abby you realise she was in the exact same position, only now we see that the revenge didn’t actually help her. A lot of critiques about the narrative come down to people being emotional and not really thinking about or understanding the story properly. For instance, Joel trusting Abby. People say he never would have done so, however they forget that the town regularly took in new people and saved outsiders when necessary. There’s a note in a sign in book stating that they took in a few people while on patrol. You can also find a note in the hotel during Ellie/Joel’s flashback patrol from someone in Jackson leaving supplies for a hermit woman to gradually earn her trust and bring her into town. THEN there’s the fact that Joel, Tommy, and Abby all fight together against a horde. He would have lowered his guard thinking if she WAS a threat she would have turned on them in the chaos. Oh and it’s been 5 years since they arrived in the town. Joel had finally gotten to a point in his life where he wasn’t just fighting to survive anymore, and without that daily struggle and desperation he wasn’t as savage as he used to be. Anyway, this game was bloody amazing! Sadly people are just shitting on it because it challenged them emotionally and analytically. Most of the reviews don’t offer constructive criticism either which is pretty unfortunate, they simply state what they didn’t like and don’t go into why.
I'm quite sure there are plenty of people who got the point of the story and also understood that the narrative was poorly executed. Its rather arrogant for you to claim that a lot of the people who had issues with this game are just ignorant of what the story was trying to express. You don't need to be some scholar to understand it. However, there are numerous instances of characters undertaking actions that make zero sense, the number of coincidences in the game requires a suspension of disbelief and some things that are just jarring. Jessie dies and he barely gets mentioned after that? Are we seriously supposed to care about Abby? She doesn't seem to regret anything and is ok with the killing of children, sleeping with a guy who has a pregnant girlfriend and who is emotionally vulnerable, she was going to happily gut a pregnant dina until lev stopped her, she basically starts slaughtering all her friends for some kids she literally just met. Sorry it was difficult to connect or have empathy with the character. Lev seemed to get over the loss of his sister really quick. Seemed like a lot of the game choices were done for cheap shock value. Tommy all of a sudden becomes a blood thirsty maniac? Huh? Made zero sense for him to rush off one day ahead of Ellie. He knew they wouldnt be able to hold her town. I'm not buying the whole Ellie leaving her life on the farm to go back to the revenge mission, especially at the behest of Tommy. Abby just happens to get to rescued by Joel and Tommy? How convenient. Amazing how they can all find eachother in a city the size of seattle (weeks away from where they live) while they are all sneaking around avoiding multiple enemy factions. The game had technical achievements. The story ND wanted to tell is fine, but their execution of it fell short and hence the game falls short of being a masterpiece.
@@red2977 Honestly...in my opinion...you have to actually see & understand the characters with how they're feeling & going through. It's the apocalypse. Sometimes the adrenaline in you kicks in & you're not even thinking about your losses in the moment or you just feel more angry than pissed in the moment. Thing is...those are some of the things that some of you don't really think or understand with the story on both sides. Thing is...it's to show that Abby was soooo obsessed with finding Joel & killing him. She wanted to use Tommy as a link to get to Joel & kill him. So...her moment of meeting Joel & Tommy with those things going after her was by chance actually. She never knew that they would be there. And when she found out that it was Joel she wanted to kill him for killing her dad. And to show both Abby's side & Ellie's side of the story is show that with Abby being so obsessed on wanting revenge to kill Joel & then killing him in front of Ellie & then Ellie wanting revenge....was to show that actions have consequences. Now I'm sure that sometime after Ellie & Dina found the farm & had JJ that they had convos about Jessie you know. But they don't show that. They still probably miss him deeply but thing is...you can't really be sad about someone forever. You have to learn to move on. You can still miss them deeply yes but to be upset or cry over someone all the time...that's not good. It was to show that Dina & Ellie have moved on from losing Jessie & were trying to have a good life for themselves & JJ. But it was Ellie's emotions & trauma/PTSD from losing Joel in front of her that still lingered in her mind & she couldn't get over that even though she tried think that she shouldn't go after Abby. Tommy wanted revenge too. He lost his brother. He thought that Ellie would help with that. He thought that she still felt the same way she did months before or so. He did what he thought was right, to go talk to her about going after Abby to get justice. Ellie thought that going after Abby after that would make things better. You can't get your loved ones back after getting revenge/justice. You end up feeling regret yrs later. Abby realized over time from getting her revenge caused her loved ones death. Ellie learned that later on after Jessie & almost losing Tommy & Dina. Abby never knew that Dina was pregnant. She even thought like, "I know you killed my pregnant friend...& I understand that if you never knew that she's pregnant but...I'll let her live. Her baby is the future. But so was my friend's baby. I don't want to see you again.". Basically...both Ellie & Abby went through a lot & it was to show both of their struggles, emotions & what they were thinking & everything. But again...it was to show that actions have consequences. Their actions (wanting revenge) caused them losing a loved one, a friend.
Abby was not in the exact same position 😅 her father was about to murder a child and experiment on her brain with no informed consent. That's some nazi shit. And that's the legacy that Abby sought vengeance for.
If you pay close enough attention (which a lot of people tend not to do when they’re emotional) Joel asks who they are, and they say “guess” and Joel realizes in his face that they’re fireflies, and then he accepts it.
When we say it's not a story for everyone we don't mean it on a condescending way (like saying "I'm more brilliant & more analytical than you") NO, rather it's meant on an emotional cathartic way. The game is not for everyone DEPENDING on how willing or not you turn out to overcome Joel's death. And by overcoming it doesn't mean that you will love him any less (in fact, after everything I even come to love & appreciate him even more + I came to realise how his death had a complete background behind it [fate had to catch up with him given that he could achieve closure for Sarah's death by saving Ellie however he had to keep the cycle of violence alive if he wanted to get her out of the hospital] & ends up having a bigger contribution for the story [Ellie broke with the domino effect that he wasn't able to by the end of part 1]) however overcoming his death means that you got to engage in a bigger emotional journey that you could have ever imagined. Many stories just leave us with the death of a beloved character & that's it but here they wanted to take us on the journey of catharsis, the path to come to terms with this loss along with Ellie (the dimension of Naughty's dog risk per se). If you couldn't get past it, you are likely stuck on this hatred loop towards the game (the best example when life imitates art). It might not have been the story you wanted to hear or that you were expecting to play for years but the boldness of its proposal itself deserves by far more recognition.
Khun Chen part 1 wasn’t for “everyone” either lol idk about y’all but I don’t judge a game or film by the ratio of love and hate it gets, some masterpiece films evoke a hell of a lot of hate
I hated the game, same story you've heard a thousand fucking times before. I was at the rat king boss fight when I ultimately stopped playing, I took a break from the game for one week. That break was everything I needed to understand this game, throughout that week I didn't read any TLOU2 shitposts or rants, I distanced myself from the game fully. I come back to the game, I felt like shit for hurting ellie, but it was different than every other time...I had a more open view of the entire situation and the game actually made me feel what it tried to during my playthrough, I'm so happy I took that break because by the time the credits rolled I was in awe of what I has just played, and looking back on the first half differently this time. I had put together all of the points you had made in this video and I was feeling what you were feeling this game is fucking amazing, and the fact that a week ago I would've hated myself for thinking that shows how powerful this game really is, I can say for certain that no other game has made me take such a 180 on my decisions and think this hard about a story and it's so impressive what I just fucking played last night. There was an old rancher in the first jack and daxter game who you had to herd his cows in for and he would give you one of those orbs you had to collect, for some reason it always stuck with me, I found it strangely fun, it was a change of pace from the rest of the game and made me like that universe alot more, it made it feel more real instead of just fucking up bad guys, I think that's the thing that made me fall in love with videogames, (story based ones atleast) and at the end of this game you had to herd in some sheep into ellies barn (wow so interesting) but it reminded me of that Jack and daxter thing, and just that stupid small thing gave me such an appreciation of what naughtydog has made, and what an absolute masterpiece the TLOU series is, sequel happily included. (Like a full circle type thing yknow) Also you made me tear up with the take on me part at the end, ty for that lol Thanks for reading my tired attempt to put into words what this game is, also the fact that you can replay the game with cheats is hilarious so mad props to whoever came up with that idea at ND
That's why I took a month and a half to Finnish my first playthrough. I needed to think about each section I completed and what it meant. It gave me a better perspective than if I rushed it
@5555Thecrow You're calling me a loser for reading comments to see the discourse around this game? At least I'm not so much a loser that I take the time to try and write a clever message (it wasnt clever) and then copy paste it on all the comments that think the game is good. And bruh i didnt "EXTRA take the time to find out" it wasnt hard since you commented like 10 times lol
@Aaron B ... Dude, I had to give you a thumbs up for this comment. The people who hated/hate the game literally let their anger and emotion at Joel's death override their rationale and thought process. As someone who loved the game from the outset it makes me happy to see that there are people re-evaluating Part 2 and realizing that the game is way better than they ever initially gave credit for. Great job!!
I think people hated this game because: a) the attachment to Joel and his death, b) the forced empathy experience over an unknown character and antagonist, and c) the perceived "woke" agenda rhetoric. Lesbian characters, the vague nonbinary antagonist, and the struggling trans scar character really pushed some people over the edge. I really think these things blinded most players into really appreciating this game for what it is: a masterpiece.
"The game and the painful journey is not to tell you that revenge is bad. Every single thing that happens in this game is for Ellie's recovery from the effects of Joel's decision and lie at the end of Last of Us 1." Deep applause, man. You got it! Thanks too for helping me realize how so many people could hate this. It's certainly a bleak and depressing tale, and I can see now how it feels like everyone is getting shit on and there's no point.
@@StyLe_Chien Recovery from a lie? Joel saves her physically and mentally. Joel tells Ellie that other people are immune too and the firefly couldn't find the cure. He essentially tell Ellie that she wasn't special and she doesn't have to carry the weight of the world on her shoulder. She could just live her life, find a new reason to live like he did. Imagine a 14 years old and being told that you are the last hope of humanity, the sacrificial lamb to save humanity. What mental toll would that have on a person. I thought we as human already evolve pass the barbaric ritual of human sacrifice, but I guess we're not.
The whole game chastises you for playing it. Sorry but you obviously missed the point of the first 2 games. Abby didn't even bother to hear Joel out, she just clubs him and done. She never heard the fact that her dad was the one who threatened Joel first. Joel made the correct decision. The first game shows that the Firefly's were less than honorable, even Tommy admits this and left them. They attack safe zone in a effort to "free" the people as they claim, with ZERO regards to anything. They wanted to KILL JOEL right off the bat and didn't even want to bother honoring the deal in the first place. Then we get to Joel's decision. He made the correct decision. They were going to butcher a child in a effort to MAYBE make a cure for the Fungus. Never mind the fact that in the real world today with sterile labs and equipment, tons of scientists and experts and perfectly operational labs haven't been able to create even 1 vaccine for fungus EVER. Don't give me the "well it's a game, not the real world" excuse since the game uses a real life fungus and is based upon reality to some extent. So what makes you think that the Firefly's could do it with a run down lab, no experts but 1 apparently,little equipment. It's not possible, it's just not. Plus even if they did, how are they going to create enough for the rest of the world and then distribute it with all that dismantled? Who says they wouldn't just use that cure in order to get their demands met? They certainly would since throughout the game they proved that they are less than noble.
Good for you, man! 25 year old version, of myself, wouldn't have understood this story, so I don't go too ballistic, for the early negative reviews (and leaks). I am now Joel's age and clearly understand telling those little innocent lies, to our daughters, to protect them, when by being untruthful, we can wind up hurting, instead. I too, did not like this as much, as the first. I think it is a great story that can progress MANY different ways. First game, was Joel's (and Ellie). This one is about Ellie (and Abby). Love the way you produced that other game/anime, to show similarities. Glad you came around, Good Job!!
I’m all for a Last Of Us Part 3. I feel like Ellie’s story still has more room for development. And let’s be real here, there is definitely gonna be more Joel flashbacks in Part 3 and maybe Part 4 if that game happens as well.
When Ellie went to Santa Barbara she didn’t have Dinas bracelet. When she returns to the farm she has dinas bracelet on so I think she just returning to the farm to remember Joel for the last time and she actually just chillin in Jackson with the others.
It could also mean she has the bracelet to remember Dinna... just like Joel had the watch to remember his daughter and like Ellie had the toy to remember Sam. She lost Dinna because of revenge. She could have the bracelet in her backpack or pockets.
@@DeLeo_77 it's in her bag i think cuz she ellie was trapped the rope thing she was hung up so it would have fallen in her pockets but i still hope that dina and jj is in jackson I want ellie is with dina and jj
I get that you’re young. You have not lived a life with many choices. I find that your analogy between campy movies and a Buddhist cartoon, even if it’s the way for you to get it, was just, well kind of limited. I’m a 60 year old man who has lived these choices, more than once. I personally think that this is the best game for adults ever made. In fact, the first Last of Us game, I’d argue, was the original adult game. Made for adults. I am glad that you finally came to your conclusions and realizations. It’s life. The good and bad. It’s not my way of coming to these conclusions, but I’m glad you got it.
@@pan-semitistcommunist4181 I'm betting many millennials will be gamers in their 60s. Boomers didn't grow up with games so it makes sense why they're more rare
“one person’s badass is another person’s jackass” lol tho in this case I’d replace jackass with “toxic pseudo-badass” cuz they’re both just hurt people hurting people when you boil it down
@@TheFreshTrumpet exactly but its natural for a "hero" to be hurt in order to fuel their conviction. Joel is just a badass that selfishly thinks only about himself the first game while ellie and abby have to pay for his actions the second game. It's way deeper and I dont understand how people didnt get that.
This game is still getting me through my own trauma. I am struggling with some shit and I, almost a year ago would probably go on a rampage at the end of the world to hurt the people who wronged me. But for me now, I'm not so sure. This game helped me see that and it's why I feel so much while playing it. The Last of Us games are not the kind of games I play for fun, but ones that I play when I need to remind myself of my humanity.
They also foreshadow Ellie's inability to forgive with that scene with Seth in the beginning. She could have let it go. The guy seemed to be actually apologetic but Ellie was not having it. She could not let go of something like an insult so the murder of her father figure was gonna take more that the healing power of Dina to fix.
The game is good because its not generic, if your hoping for a happy tale and ending then don't play it, it's good because it's heartbreaking to see Ellie go from a happy go lucky kid to destroyed and completely broken, it was never meant to be a happy story for Ellie and it leaves you feeling broken because the ellie everyone loved in the first game is gone and that is why it's a tragic masterpiece 👌
Omgggggg finally someone changed their mind! You get it! Thank you! I’ve said from the start people hate the game because it’s hard, the decision making is rough, it goes against your morals and what you want. The characters are complex and human, they make bad decisions but that doesn’t make it a bad game, it makes it a fucking emotional rollercoaster
Why you people say „understand“ or „you get it“? Is this a religion or something? I don’t understand why people can‘t dislike the story, the narrative, the characters etc. It’s not about „getting“ something. People are not dumb, but have different perspectives and like different things. It’s nice if you like the Story or the Game, but „you get it“ is really I stupid way to tell you changed your perspective or see it with others eyes etc. In my opinion people are doing pretty big mind-bending interprations so it fits their narratives. On both sides. There are so many and big flaws to the story...and they ARE there. And not everyone can just look over them. Some like it, some don’t. I don’t see any decision making in the game or moral. As you said, it’s a rollercoaster that drives you narrow through exactly what you should think and feel and how you shall view things. People say it fits into the world, while ignoring the whole world and just focusing on few people. I liked the approach of Part 1 more and since „I don’t get it“, the story doesn’t achieve its goal in many many ways. It’s called „the last of us“. But I don’t see anyone left. The last of humanity? Pretty much people around to kill. Last of Ellie and Joel? Both are dead at that point. And why us? She couldn’t even forgive him. Perhaps thats the problem why people don‘t „understand“ it.
@@ledpowz Because a lot of the initial hate for the game seemed like a knee jerk reaction. If people want to hate the game, that's fine but it's nice to see it getting some appreciation. Nothing wrong with that.
FELT THE INTRO SO MUCH... i was so upset by the end and pissed off but eventually I came to terms with everything and figured out the themes and why things happened the way they did. but at the time I was so pissed..
![Lethal Company Music Video 🎵 "Follow The Orders" [VERSION A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeooZB4Z7RA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Jack Harlow - Hello Miss Johnson [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q86_nlRoIGw/mqdefault.jpg)
HBO Series bringing everyone together you love to see it
The show is amazing so far. I hope it fixes some of the things I didn’t like about this game and doesn’t require someone to go into a deep analysis for everyone to understand
part ll is still aids.
I think you stopped hating it because maybe you hit your fucking head really hard. This is a shit game. Shame on anyone who defends it.
@@pablieto-veganson kkkkkkk i agree
@@darkthelonious neil cuckman was held in check by other lead executives in producing the first game. the second part he really got to flip off the fans who had the "wrong" conclusion in the first game and actually sided with joel. who saved his new surogate daughter. the character who spits on joel after they murdered him, even looks like neil cuckman. so i think it's no coincidence. also the roided up tranny in the apocolypse. where'd she get the steroids from?
When I finished the game, what really hit me hard was that Ellie couldn't picture Joel in a positive memory until the very end of the game. After she had already lost everything. It was so heartbreaking.
What about the flashbacks in between the game
@@NareinM The one flashback got me when Joel finally told Ellie he stopped the doctors from killing her and she realized she was the cure but it also kill her. Hard to take in.
I wish she was bad ass like that the whole time she felt like the real Ellie when she feed that dude to the infected
So masterfully done!
@@phillyscorpio3804 I hope this issarcasm
"I don't think I can ever forgive you for that. But I would like to try."
That line, alone, is the essence of the entire game. To try in an unforgiving world that has already given up.
Glad you changed your mind about it. I'd say it's a great game that after a month since I finished it, I still think about the games implications.
2nd play through drove this home hard for me. It’s not even about saying revenge is bad as a message at all. It’s about trying. Simply trying. Ellie at the end isn’t completely fixed or saved or freed from pain, she is accepting the truth and trying....
It's truly nice seeing discussion for this game is still hot. I end up checking on this game every now and then ever since I beat the game. That's how impactful this game is. You're pretty spot on in this video, and noticed many similarities to your thoughts on this game and Neil's and Halley's input in the interviews. It really took rock bottom for Ellie to "bottom out", Halley's term, and snap out of her obsession with Abby and pain, trauma, and stolen opportunity she deals with
yes! I cried immensely at this part, as I had a similar situation with my dad, he passed away before we could have a startover in our dysfunctional relationship, and there will never be another chance
I can't read this sentence without tears
I fucking broke down when she said that bro
i can never stop thinking about how abby doesnt know ellies name, she only ever refers to ellie as 'you'
Yeah, and Ellie doesn't even know joel killed her father.
I think there's actually a scene where she says her name in a fight between them
They barely knew each other at all and had encounter each other 3 times 😧
My guess is Abby and ellie will meet again and become friends in part 3 and understand each other.
In the theater when Abby tells Ellie to stand up Tommy says "Don't do it Ellie" so I'm sure Abby heard him say her name.
That final scene between Joel and Ellie makes me sob every time. Their interaction is bursting with emotion though they say so little
Troy’s lip quiver in that scene broke me. It sounds kind of silly but I have a newfound appreciation for how much one can act through just the face.
(Troy Baker is the actor who played Joel fwiw)
I love Pedro and all but he has nothing on Troy's voice acting as Joel. I'm sad that we may never see him do the role again.
This came up on my feed and that end scene is still the only form of media that's made me cry
That scene got me as well in my first playthrough. Bravo Naughty Dog!
"I'm scared of ending up alone." - Ellie
Right? At the end of the game I just wish I could give her a hug. She was so broken our Ellie. I thought of this line so much, her fear became true. I was happy by the end of the game that she didnt kill Abby. By the end I was just like, "Ellie please stop this". When she gets her knife and points at Lev, my immediate reaction was "Ellie please dont do this, you will destroy yourself". I cried :-(. What a brilliant game.
I wonder if she remembers that line at the end.
damn self fulfilling prophecies!
Never hated part II, in fact I loved every minute of it. I loved both Joel and Ellie, but I understood that Joel’s actions cost him. And I understood Ellie’s motivations. And I even liked Abby. Why did I like the person who killed Joel? Because she found something other than merciless killing of scars because of Yara and Lev. Two kids of the faction she was fighting helped her see a greater purpose. And she even turned on Isaac and the WLF to protect the kids.
The ending in my mind was perfect. Ellie found humanity at the time she needed to the most. I applaud Naughty Dog because they had the biggest balls in the industry to do a story like this. Yes the story wasn’t perfect but damn if it overall didn’t have an impact
Great points.
1. Naughty dog have big balls
2. I love abby too
3. Am I the only one who was happy for abby finding the fireflies? Who knows part 3 her and lev find them and join them.
4. I think abby is hot 😍
Umar Hussain nigga u weird u like muscular bitches
@@G_Fendi you're weird, you like calling women bitches.
I’m the same way I love this game so much and I believe the ending is perfect. I heard one person say “tlou ended hopeful but with misery beneath the surface and tlou2 ended with misery but hopeful underneath” and I love that.
It's good that she turned on Isaac since he was going to kill every Scar, good or bad on the island. The WLF group are no better than the Scars
"Revenge is bad" is such a superficial, one-dimensional reading of this story. It's kind of assumed that you know it's bad. That's there, but it's not the point. It's about finding closure, learning how to end the destructive perpetuation of the cycle of violence due to tribalism and the refusal to forgive or to let go of past wrongs, facing the consequences of your destructive actions, learning to empathize with the pain of others and recognizing common humanity, how healing for yourself can come from caring for others. I absolutely missed stuff because this story and the characters are so layered. It's not a pleasant experience, so I get not liking it, and I agree that it could have been paced better and probably trimmed down in length, but this is a powerful experience, and one whose messages are incredibly relevant to "current year." You don't have to like or agree with everyone, but you should be able to come away from this saying "I don't agree, but I understand you. I see you and recognize our shared humanity, even with of all of your ugly hate, pain and suffering."
I agree, that is what it SHOULD be about, but naughty dog went about it terribly. They made Ellie just think of Joel all of a sudden and stop her violent actions? Wouldn’t it have been so much better if at the end of the game Lev stayed on the pole, was awake, and was able to see Abby and Ellie fight. Then while Ellie was drowning Abby, Ellie would look over to Lev screaming and crying out to stop. And then Ellie would make a parallels to her own situation with Joel dying and realize, that it is pointless. The ending that Naughty Dog chose was objectively just poorly executed and dumb. It’s almost as if the writers made it seem like we need to find some profundity amoung the mess of an ending they made; like we are psychic and can ascertain how she developed to get to spare Abby. I got that ending from “barnyard” by the way, a kids movie has a better revenge plot than a triple A video game.
@@mazokuwolf1279 so my interpretation of that was at that moment when she had Abby drowning in the water, that if she went through with that action, she knew it wouldn’t bring happiness to her. I’ve been in a situation where I’ve thought about doing something to someone but when I finally had the opportunity, I couldn’t do it. I hope that makes sense. On a side note, this is my opinion. It’s a work of fiction so I get why some people took it your way for sure.
@@EJD339 Yeah but that makes no sense. Why couldn’t she think about that will she was letting hoards of clickers on hundreds of rattlers? Yet she has a marvellous revelation that, “revenge won’t make me a better person” RIGHT at the end? I don’t think it’s wise to just go with that. For a story to work, character motivations need to be developed or explained.Without that understanding, we cannot understand their intention or motives.
Too bad the sentiment you describe is lost on everyone that defends and praises this game.
But admittedly also the people who are hating on it.
So I guess the message didn't stick.
Sad how because this game has become a sort of front line for the culture war, we can't have a true productive discussion about it as just a game and just the game, it has to devolve into right and wrong and it has to either be utter trash or a masterpiece.
It can't just be a game some people liked and others were dissapointed by.
If you liked it you must be a woketard.
If you disliked it you must be an ist and phobe and a haterz.
Fuck this culture war I hate it, it ruins productive discussion a out gaming.
Because narrativelt and gameplay wise there is a lot to unpack and discuss here, but it's not happening because muh culture warz. Gaaawd!
The game is trash
The first game is a story about regaining humanity. The second game is a story about the complexity that comes with that humanity. The good and the bad. That’s the simplest way I can explain it, but the characters and performances are so layered that I could go on for hours.
This is quite possibly the best summary of TLOU I’ve heard in my life. I agree completely
What complexity. Both Ellie and Abbie just try to kill everyone, without at remorse. I don’t care if they were vengeful, they killed so many people that had nothing to do with it, and then in the end: Flashback - Joel - Good. The game literally murders Joel bc they say he was a murderer and calls him bad for that, but Then in the end they try to say he was a man of mercy. And then Abby literally does so many things that Joel did too, and she’s good. That does not seem like that well explored of a humanity
@@GPlaysCustodioI'm pretty impressed how face first into the point you ran and still missed it
@@willow_2312 Doesn't that just mean "the point" was poorly executed or entirely stupid though? Cuz they're right, we don't see that much "good of humanity" in this game, least of all in our protags, Abby and Ellie are just as bad as Joel here and Abby loses her douchebag friends but basically gains family despite being a terrible, vengeful murderer herself
I literally have spent hours and hours reading articles, watching reviews, analysis, etc. from many different sources... Now, it's been over a month and I can't stop thinking about the game, and no game had made me feel this way before. So I tried to understand it, now I think I got the point... So, thank you!
Same
So it’s the first disappointing game you played then?
ikr, probably my favorite game of all time, i do like rdr2, GOW, they were both a masterpiece, no doubt but it just never felt the same way dude...
I have the same experience. months passed now and I very often find myself coming to check some videos on youtube with new analises. I love this game so much. Played 4 times already, got all trophies and still have the desire to go back to it. I am actually now playing the witcher 3 to get the trophy, but very often I just wanna pop the disc of the last of us part II back in and play it again
Same. I'll admit, I loved it. Every bit of it. Even the very hard parts of it.
But like you, it's almost always on my mind. That's some powerful shit at work there.
That avatar parallelism is insane. I never thought of that.
Agree
My mind was absolutely blown
Thats somewhat ironic
I noticed it when Korra was added to Netflix recently and a lot of RUclipsrs were shocked at the complaints. It feels good to have more people defending Korra and sequels similar to it like TLOU2.
@5555Thecrow
As if an avatar parallelism justifys bashing Joel skull in, letting us play with the killer for 10 hours and even wanting us to sympathize with her.
Oh am I just focusing on the wrong aspects? That would basically mean, it's my fault for not blocking out every negative point of the game, not the Devs fault...
Literally a breath of fresh air amongst a sea of spores. Thanks
lol appreciate it!
No, this is more like a fart in a smoke filled diner.
I'm sorry that many people criticize the game you like for having obvious problems. That doesn't make them "spores".
@@loubloom1941 Why do people hate it when they hate the things they like but when it's something they hate it's okay
@@loubloom1941 Oh look, another butthurt player complaining that there are people that likes the game he hated. GTFO, dude. Go watching one of the many vídeos having this game, like Angry Joe's or something. Boo hoo.
Stinky
The story really covers the five stages of grief. Denial being the first part of the game where she’s telling him to get up, Anger goes through most of the game which is the reason she’s hunting for abby, bargaining is the revenge, she feels if she gets revenge she will feel better. Depression is all in the farm section of the game. And finally, when she’s about to kill abby she goes through the final stage, acceptance. As the video says she realises revenge won’t change anything and she finally lets her go.
You could also argue that the whole franchise is a parallel to the 5 stages of grief, the hopes of a vaccine getting back to the old world is denial, the 2nd game can represent anger and bargaining, and the 3rd game could possibly tackle depression and then acceptance, finding peace with a world that is now chaos.
I would say in your theory attempting to kill Abby was Ellie’s way to bargain for the fact she hurt Joel
Yes, and something else. It’s genuinely just about perspective. The game wants you to hate Abby so when you find out why she killed joel, you feel guilty for hating her. The reason it’s hated is because you need to be mature enough to understand it and smart enough, both of which gamers are typically not lmao. You need to be capable of empathy. The game is trying to tell you that there is no such thing as a protagonist and an antagonist, just normal people who make bad decisions no matter how vile and disgusting and repulsive they are. Naughty Dog does not want you to like the game, it is a mirror of life. It’s to show you that revenge is a vicious cycle and the only way to end it is to forgive. Life is not all sunshine and rainbows and The Last Of Us Part II does that exactly that. Games are designed to be a form of escapism, to help players escape the troubles of life by entering another one that’s typically considered better, TLOU 2 defies that and therefore defies what a game is. You expect escapism and instead you are slapped in the face and forced into reality, and that is beautiful and amazing to do. It was perfect. This is what makes The Last Of Us Part II (in my opinion) the only true next gen game in the past decade.
@@tylersaurus4702you’d also have to see characters in the game as real people and not care about someone you do as a real person
If they developed Abby more maybe I’d feel sympathy
@@Aryan-qv5qk By developing abby more, what do you mean? I think for what the game is they did that because i personally empathised with her and i actually like her character. I enjoy to play as her and I frequently replay just her section of the game skipping the other chapters, what made you unable to sympathise with her?
Got this game the day it was released, completed it within two days, now it’s been a month still can’t stop thinking about it. No any other movies nor games had ever made me feel the way I feel about this game, the emotional experience through out the story from both part 1+2 was like riding a roller coaster. A masterpiece indeed!
Me too! Well, no. There was another game that made me think about it for whole months, actually for 7 years. Then again, it was The Last Of Us.
Same
Me too
ABSOLUTELY AGREE 💯
Took me a week because I wanted to make it last, I would literally do anything for a part 3 rn
bro the parallel between this game and the Last Airbender that you edited was amazing. this whole video was fantastic and I think slowly, a lot of people will come to appreciate and understand this game after the blind hate like you did.
Nathan Zed your video and this video are the first videos I’m going to send my friends once they finish the game. Y’all both really helped me understand what I could feel playing the game but couldn’t put into words.
@TheUltimateGamer245 they told the same story but you have bias against this game and towards atla so i wouldnt expect you to even try to understand
Holy crap. That parallel between one of my favourite cartoons ever and videogames ever just made me tear up a bit. I'd not seen that coming, but it hits the nail on the head and goes to complement just how incredible both series are!
@TheUltimateGamer245 Basically, you didn't come here to have a conversation. You came here to reinforce on what your already firmly believe about the game, despite the video clearly viewing the game in a positive light.
TheUltimateGamer245 lol no
Your caption on Joel's last scene with Ellie was spot on. I teared up when I read a review pointing out "she would be lucky to have you" is so much more than just a nice wish for the couple. It implies deeply how Joel views Ellie, that she deserves to be loved as anyone and does not need to die to "pay" for all the losses in her life and have a meaningful life, which is in stark contrast with what Ellie believes her life should mean. That's when I realized how hard the journey must be for Ellie to eventually accept Joel's view and actions. You are exactly right this game isn't about "revenge bad". It's a brutally honest reflection of two incredibly powerful and complex humans coming to terms with their own trauma and grow to be better. It does not shy away from the brutal mistakes they made along the way and forces players to participate that mistake and pain. It is perhaps too honest for some, but I hope eventually people mellow out and see perspectives as well as you do. Thanks for the video.
I remember going through this game and being so mad and depressed. Then, I got to last conversation between Joel and Ellie and immediately burst into tears because it reminded me of a conversation I had with my therapist. Forgiveness is a decision you have to make every minute of your life despite what you’ve been through or you’ll end up how Ellie was for most of this game (vengeful and losing more than she had to). I wish more people realized that message when the game was released, but I’m glad the TLOU community is finally circling back to it. ❤
right on.
That last conversation reminded me of the confrontation i had with my father after he left my mom…
I was filled with plenty of hate after Abby killed Joel. Played through Ellie for about 15 hours and then...had to restart as abby?! I was not happy, but took a couple days off and then went back into it. Kept thinking about how sadistic it was to make the gamer play as someone who I've been wanting to kill the past 15 hours of gameplay. But the more I played, the more I realized that Abby is just another person in this fucked up world. Joel and Ellie are fucked up too. We always judge others by their actions, but judge ourselves by our own intentions. The more I played through Abby, getting closer to the faceoff with Ellie, I didn't want either of them to die, but to reason it out with each other and...maybe become friends? The final scene made me break down entirely, when Ellie saw Joel with the guitar and let go of Abby. Ugly crying. I haven't cried like that in I don't know how long. Triggered me with memories of being wronged and bullied and, in that instance, made me let go of pretty much all the vengeful hate that I've been carrying all my life. Made me want to be a better person. I can see the criticism of the game to an extent, but the hate is not warranted. It's a great game.
@@Gautamiyer2 we are truly ruled by our own trauma, but to overcome it is to show redemption. Joel and Abby both escaped the trauma, now Ellie has to.
@@Gautamiyer2 People that loved the game are the ones that deserve to be trusted. I would never trust someone who hates it, bc those are ruled by selfishness and anger
We were all too caught up in our grief and anger to realize what this game was trying to do. The world of The Last of Us is about more than just Joel and Ellie. By experiencing Abby's point of view and seeing the parallels with Ellie's motivations, the message is so much deeper than "revenge is bad".
The message is that we are all the same.
We're all just trying to survive and hold on to the people we love. There is no "us vs them", there is just "us".
The last of us.
So this excuses horribly written characters, manipulative tactics by the developers, and a horrible slow pace. I'm sorry but this little message you've come up with sounds like a bunch of pretentious garbage. I'm glad you've justified this game to yourself, but as someone who plans to write and get into storytelling, this game is written like shit. It's horribly fucking slow, with segments that drag on longer then the intro of this video. Disgusting tactics by the developers to push they're disgusting agenda. Oh how bold, "there is no us vs them, there is just us". Wow I guess if you're a freshman in highschool that's really original and interesting, but if you've digested any media whether it's movies or videogames, then you know it's a fucking tired cliche. Don't get me started on the "characters", they're all one dimensional with laughable motivations. The only interesting storyline is Ellie and Joel, and they throw that shit out the window faster then Henry punching out his clock. You remember Manny, that awesome character that wasn't just a racist stereotype that screamed spanish obscenities. Oh also don't know if you knew but Naughty Dog has a disgusting work environment, they crunch they're employees into working ridiculous hours, all so they can animate Owen railing Abby in 60 fps.
@@rocioquiroz11 I thought the game runs at 30fps
@@rocioquiroz11 Funniest shit I've seen all week, thanks for the laugh my man
@Rocio Quiroz still in the grief if stage I see
I feel like in the epilogue, Ellie feels like she may have lost a part of Joel, in a way, since she can't play guitar properly with missing fingers. I think that definitely also made her start thinking about revenge (which seems to be some people's only takeaway from this??), mourning, and the cycle of trauma. So it's not just "revenge bad" because she's alone and now can't play guitar (and thus has lost a connection to Joel), it's also about the cycle of trauma, reevaluating self worth, and letting yourself experience grief. A lot of people hated this game because, just like Ellie, they didn't allow themselves to mourn. The player is experiencing *exactly* what Ellie was feeling, and the longer you let it sit, the more your feelings align with hers at the end of the game.
This comment right here, thank you, its everything thats in my heart about this game, and i couldnt put it to words, not even to my self, thank you
@Mitchell King Good for you lmao?? They fucked up with the story in general imo, obviously.
@@tywinlannister2137 :^D
@@rubyrudd1502 Couldn't have said it better. After beating the game first time I had a lot of negative emotions that I needed to let out, it's what was stopping me from playing the game again. It was not until I allowed myself to mourn Joel's death and accept reality I was able to play the game again with an open mind.
The portion with her unable to play the guitar was more about irony than anything. The guitar represented her favored connection/memory of Joel. Her journey for revenge cost her that connection/memory. But what’s crazy is maybe it made her realize she didn’t need the guitar, because Joel would be with her always.
Just watch, in the next year or two there will be a wave of videos like this. "Why I was WRONG about The Last Of Us 2"
Year or two? It’s happening now.
Llama Llama no it’s not? Unless you mean people that faked hating it for the purpose of making that video. People genuinely dislike the game. Accept it and move on.
Frankie Pollock nope. Accept that most people that say they don’t like the game didn’t play it or are just trolls. Accept it and move on.
Llama Llama that’s false. How about streamers? They played it and disliked and haven’t changed their opinion. As have I. The same can be said for blind fanboys who are yet to play it. This game ain’t getting that and if it does it’s literally gonna be like 10 people doing it for clicks. The game isn’t loved by most. Accept this and move on. The games mediocre. Mediocre game stories don’t turn good from time 🙂
Also. Show the data that most are trolls or people who haven’t played it ;).
There’s data showing bot accounts posting positive reviews for the game so guess u don’t know about that little detail.....
God, this game is more fun to debate about than play and most of the time it’s just people throwing around inaccurate statements with fuck all to back it up but act like it’s fact
@Frankie Pollock “mediocre games don’t turn good from time.” Silent Hill 2 would like to have a word with you. (And I guess cult classics just aren’t a thing either)
I'm one of the few that loved it from day 1. Because I could see that the message was more than just "Revenge Bad". It's a story about what it means to be human. It's a story about how hard it can be to forgive, but how important it is to learn how. I couldn't have been happier.
The thing I always found hilarious, was how blinded everybody was when this game released. When they were all failing to see the bigger picture just like Ellie, just like you said. It's great to see someone go from hating this game to loving it, and you've given me a little more hope for the future fans of this franchise haha.
I totally agree. This is only the game I think abt on a daily basis. Truly is the best game I’ve played
Literally every “revenge bad” story is that exact thing, forgiveness.
I understand, but for ellie to not kill abby at the very end? bullcrap, Its like if John Wick went on a killing spree and decided not to kill Iosef Tarasov or Vigo at the end because he feels sorry them, "Revenge Bad" is a good point if only ellie chose not to kill abby when she loss jesse, but no, they have to make her go and kill abby again only to lose everything at the end without killing abby. its bullcrap, just pull the trigger.
I don’t think there were a few of us, I just think the people that didn’t like it were a lot louder. I just played the game and enjoyed it, I didn’t go online to talk about it, but the people that hated it had more of a reason to constantly talk about it.
"When you're lost in the darkness, look for the light"
You sir has done did found the light!
Right! Very impressed with this dude. Now of only the jokers of RUclips trying to jump on a hate bandwagon gave it the perspective it deserves. This game was absolutely a masterpiece and I don't see how this isn't the best sequel we've ever seen! I didn't want a last of us 2 but if there is one company to trust to pull it off it's naughty dog so I'll give them their dues for a part 3 because they have more than earned it
Tell me, what is this "Light" your talking about? expand it pls.
@Chris Grant gameplay really hasnt changed?? Are you sure?? The A.I is almost the best in the industry, levels are freaking massive, gunplay is almost naughty dog's best. the story is "identity crisis" which has never happened to me in any other game/movie. So idk "how" its mediocre. If its your opinion, its okay, but dont try to turn it into a "fact".
@Chris Grant Go back and play the original. Trust me, its VERY dated. I still love the original game, but the sequel surpasses it on EVERY level. From graphics to AI, from the sound design to the acting, and the story and characters. The writing is amazing, but is it a story for everyone? Probably not. Personally I LOVE dark character pieces, so this game was PERFECT in terms of what I was hoping to get from a sequel.. But I think some people were hoping for a Hollywood styled action adventure game with Joel again.. I knew I wasn't getting that from the announcement trailer.. But I can understand people disappointed they got something different.
@Chris Grant how was it contrived? Also Charles Bronson had one good movie The Dirty Dozen. Otherwise Bronson films are objectively terrible lil
I loved it from the get go, I got to play it without knowing the spoilers. It took me about 3 weeks to beat it. I didn't want to rush through it. When it gave control over to Abby, I didn't play it for 5 days, super mad and was just like nope. I went back and pushed on, doing the motions and at some point I emphasized with Abby. The rest of the game was torture for me. I still give it a 9/10.
After playing and I finally got to go online and read reviews, watch videos, I was so shocked to see all of the hate. I didn't understand it. I watched several hate video breakdowns - I could see their point, but it wasn't enough to change my mind. Got to watch several love video breakdowns and usually, they pin pointed my emotional roller coaster with the game.
In the end, I am glad I found a video where someone let go of the hate and got to really feel what they experienced. Thank you for making this vid.
My brother practically ruined it for me when he was saying that the game was getting shit on. And so I rushed through the game more than anything just to finish it to see how it ended. But I still loved the game too for every second I played it. The game was suck on my head for so many weeks day and night. Watching videos of it and seeing who loved it and who hated it.
lol, you forgive the horrible writing. Like, the cheap attempts at making you sympathize with Abby, or the lol open door get shot/ambushed and killed that happened twice in the game, when in gameplay, you get really careful around corners and don't just ramp through doors like its nothing. That's what everyone who liked the game says: "Look at how interesting this revenge story is and how significant it is to learn to forgive" , or " look how ellie and abby are doing the same thing that will hurt everyone around them" etc. When the rest of us are like "no way joel just gives his name easily", "why does ellie suck so hard at interrogating?", "Why is Tommy an asshole right now, when he used to be the pacifict in the last game?" "Why does Jesse get killed like that?".
You guys just wanted to not feel like you lost something playing this game, so instead focused on the most basic of storytelling. the moral of the story. and completely disregard how the story was told, its pacing, etc. in the end, you forgave the writers for trying to tell you a basic moral of a story about revenge badly.
I find it weird that most people who like the game thinks that everyone who didn't like it chose to dislike it over leaks and others disapproval of the game. I have a few friends (pretty all of them that played the game) who had the same experience as you but all ended up not liking the game at all for mostly different reasons but mostly it came down to the game being ridiculously boring or the story being shit.
Just because Anthem, Fallout 76, The Culling, or TLOU2 has a fanbase and swears it's a fun game and "a masterpiece" doesn't mean that they are right. It's just their opinion and that's fine.
@@mmmk6322 I dont agree. I also loved the game. Just to clarify, I love miserrable depressing shit.
"no way joel just gives his name easily" - Why wouldnt he? 4 years in Jackson has made him more trusting. Thei policy seem to be taking in people rather then staying away. He is not the same jaded guy from the Boston QZ.
why does ellie suck so hard at interrogating?" - She does? She is obviously emotinably unstable and compropmosed becuse of that but didnt get the feeling she sucked at interogating.
Why is Tommy an asshole right now, when he used to be the pacifict in the last game?" - I found him very likable throughout the whole game until the end scene with him. Getting his brother killed brought back and old version of himself but at the end when he is being a dick to Ellie I straight away though of as a personallity change caused by severe head trauma (why he is also on a break with Maria, he is agressive and revenge focused now).
"Why does Jesse get killed like that?" Hehe I didnt like that either but hey, tha happens, added to the realism although i would have liked to see him survive.
I also thought Abb's point of view did its job. I didnt like her but I understood her. I also thought they made a good job making some of the other characters in the WLF sympathetic, especially Manny.
I'm right there with you at first I was making Abby just get killed over and over and finally just bit the bullet and started playing for real. Once you just let it go and lean into the fantastic gameplay you cant help but start to like Abby. Say what you want about her but you cant deny she is a certified bad ass. She hits like a tank and her weapons are so cool. Her and Lev are adorable and that fight with the Rat king? Only Abby could have done that lol
I really like when people realize how incredible game this is.
I never hated the game, I always loved it.
I plan on getting a ps4 to play the last of us 2 for Christmas
@@domgriffith6483 please
Man i already love how this game ages, I mean just type the last of us 2 in the search bar put it for more recent it is a masterpiece i hated it now i love it blah blah blah, 3 years from now, ppl are just gonna buy into sony consoles just for playing the second part, just like I bought a console to play the first, God knows i didn't regret it
Finally someone who actually understands the game and doesn't go "Joel died, shit game" respect +
@@PrestxnGG ehh it was just an initial shockwave thing, i mean joel's death really was shit but that doesn't kill the whole game, it is still great, and with time as it ages, it just becomes better
This video is brilliant man, it’s shocking how many people who hate on the game have never even played it. Emotions are a powerful thing and when we’re so angry we tend to ignore anything positive about something, and the fact that people got so angry shows how great a character Joel was.
there is 2 reaction good and bad for a story when the fan base is angry at a charachter inside a story its good BUT if the fanbase is angry at the writers them selfs then its trash
@@spikspak2889 You can be angry at the writers all you want, doesn't make the game bad. It's all subjective. Nothing is capable of making the game "bad" except general consensus and the general consensus is definitely that the game is good. The people who are upset are just the loudest, and they couldn't handle their emotions so they lash out at the only people they can; the writers.
I absolutely loved it. Its a really grey ending, not a back and white one. It leaves you thinking a lot. I understood what Ellie felt at the end but i guess one people can't empathize
Why do you care about other people just enjoy the game... lol. People hating on it is cringe and people who defend this like its goty are cringe too.
At first I used to hate on the game my 2nd play through I saw later that they did try to do something different instead of generic, in return they still kinda did but ellies choice at the end made you question her entire journey which i still don’t like much if I’m honest
“There is no difficulty setting in the game, or in real life, to make forgiving someone easier” - gf reviews.
Psuedo-wisdom everybody
you can find similar quotes on tumblr lmao
"There are no meatballs next to the spaghetti in the Italian restaurant downtown." -videogamedunkey
Monolito Got the quote wrong but yeah...and
People in comments section who can’t face truth,shit on truth. (Proverb)
I love that so many people are finally coming around.
Right?, i think it shows how desperate hate sometimes drive our actions and blur our minds.
First of all, no...they aren’t.
Secondly, hate had nothing to do with it. Ellie was gay in the DLC (6 YEARS AGO) and it got great reviews. I loved it.
The story is bad. It is convoluted, hypocritical and has the dialogue of mediocre CW series.
The “Verified Purchase” reviews on Amazon continue to decline...
So many people are just apologists for deceptive marketing by massive corporations...because they drape it in tokenist fake “inclusion”...
Sorry, when we get angry at billion dollar companies who lie in their marketing and abuse their developers and DMCA...it is not hate. It is righteous outrage.
The corporate apologists are the real problem.
These are the same type of people who pissed and moaned about Silent Hill 3 and Primal because, OMG, the protagonist was a girl! Just a bunch of ball-less crybabies.
BC shut the fuck up all ready clown
@FreeЯadikal you are just a fake corporate apologist. Ellie was the protagonist and gay in the first game DLC...SIX YEARS AGO.
I am so tired of fake pro-corporate hacks like you who know jack shit about the game coming on to defend abuse of developers, abuse of DMCA and misleading marketing by billion dollar corporations. You don’t care about “inclusion” at all.
The trailers (that everyone loved) showed Ellie as gay and the protagonist YEARS AGO!
I don’t think you played either game. Get back onto Twitter where you belong with the rest of the “fake woke” corporate types...
Something you could find curious.
Joel did horrible things. He then restored his humanity when he met Ellie.
Abby did horrible things. She then restored her humanity when she helped Lev (and Yara).
Now she is the Joel of the situation.
Ironic uh? Abby became the person that she hated the most and ruined her life. :)
Il love these parallelism.
I was focusing that more for ellie's arc, that how she is becoming the person she hates(abby) but i totally forgot or didnt just noticed that for abby too.. guess i have to play the game once again. Its complex af.
I think Ellie also realized that just as Joel protected her, Abby was doing the same to Lev, I think Ellie didn't kill Abby for that.
Joel also did horrible things to save Ellie, so overall he probably did more horrible things than good, but does not change, that his death was a poorly written chain of coincidences.
How did Abby restore her own humanity with helping Lev and Yara? She betrayed her group and even killed them without even a second thought, it is even worse than what Joel did.
@@Priestofgoddess thats actually something i adore about tlou2, the writers made abby as a deeply flawed charchter, usually, when presenting two sides of a war, storytellers usually present the villians as "messiha". But in this game abby did horrible things in her past, but she wants to redeem herself now.
Priestofgoddess part of it was actually her realizing her group was just as bad as the scars, that she was one of the most active members of her group, and that despite her allegiance to them they were willing to kill her to kill a child
That aang and ellie comparison and the way you edited that went HARRRDDD, loved it so much. I love this game too much, it really has touched a lot of people deeply. Such a powerful story
I find the gaming community the worse people when things don't go their way. They are not satisfied that they did not like the game but they make it their goal to ruin everyone else's experience. They also go on to ruin just about everyone attached to the game and anyone that said they liked it. I loved this game for pretty much most of the reasons you pointed out. Yes you have the right to hate it for your reasons, and I respect that. What I don't respect is people sending the voice actress for Abby threats. What I don;t respect is people trying to force their opinion down everyone's throat because they think they are the only ones in this world whose opinion can mean anything. The responses to this review proves that point; why would you go to a video praising a game you hated and comment. There are plenty of reviews you can go to that hate the game and you can share with the gamers there. Celly, this was a great review and some great insight. You obviously thought a lot about the game after you were done and that is what a good story does, it makes you think about it, long after it is over. Keep up the good work and I look forward to more of your reviews.
That's a really good assessment: there's pretty strong tribalism within the gaming community that I can't stand. I hope that these more controversial titles we've had (TLOU2, Death Stranding) can help teach us how to discuss these things maturely.
I'm so glad I didn't let anyone opinion effect me because I loved the game from the beginning yes there are problems but what's a bit of art with out a couple of risks
Keep crying kiddo
@@tyeculwick3833 a bit of crap with a touch of pretensious storyline.
Random Comments people like you proves that he’s right about the gaming community, very sad.
Honestly, this game is human. And that is why I love it so much. They are all deeply flawed, and don't know how to see things from other perspectives than their own. Ellie and Abby, Abby and the Seraphites, The WLF and Jackson and the Seraphites are one and the same. Exactly like Ellie and Abbie. Flawed answers to what happens when we lose everything.
This game fucking broke me.
Agreed hard
this game broke me too. I praise neil and naughty dog for this amazing game
Couldn’t have said it better
It broke me too. From the parallels between the zebra and the giraffe. Abbys aquarium moments with Owen and playing nerf archery, her journey with sev across the bridge. I feel more for abby somehow. I feel she was the real hero after everything. I understand why she killed joel. It was her father after all he killed and a cure for humanity. Abbys relationship with Owen crushed me. I felt bad for mel too because I think she knew she was always going to be second best to Owen and Ultima alone to raise a child that never came. Then there's manny, nora, yara. Oh yara....😢
the hate for the game is human too, which is why i can totally understand it. but it is just the first step. We all HATED aspects of the game because it is human to do so. but it is also human to go beyond that and try to understand and forgive and make peace with what is. that is progress. the game FORCES you to do that to truly understand it. it challenges your humanity in the best way.
Just like the first game, the more I consider the themes and details of the storytelling, the game just gets better and better. I realized during this video that both Joel’s and Ellie’s interrogation scenes end with a metal pipe bludgeoning. I liked your point that Ellie tries to honor Joel by becoming him, I hadn’t considered that. The number of parallels and nods to the original game is so insane I’m always shocked when people say that the writers threw away the world they built in the first game lol.
I feel the same. I'm still thinking about it. Most games don't do that to me.
They didn’t “throw it away.” They destroy everything about the first game you love and then slap you in the face with it
STOP trying to put in shit that isn't in the game TO MAKE IT BETTER! The game is a plot-hole drivel mess. Characters are wasted and are hard to relate to. Fuck this game
MaybeNextTime what if I told you that the point of playing as Abby isn’t necessarily so that you will end up liking her. In fact, the whole point is that you see her as a monster because she is who Ellie is becoming. Abby is what you get when Ellie has a “successful” revenge. Even after Abby successfully kills Joel (Ellie’s Abby) Abby is still not fulfilled. You can see this because she continues to have nightmares about her father. It’s only after a profound act of selflessness (Lev arc) that Abby could have hope of restoring her humanity. If Ellie had killed Abby, then Ellie would have totally lost herself, never found forgiveness, and by extension never have truly honored Joel because all Joel wanted was forgiveness, and for ellie to be her fulfilled, happy self. You can say you didn’t like the story, but saying that the story is not thought out because your man crush died is, like, objectively... just wrong lmao
Dani M stop clutching straws man. The game is definitely trying to get the player to empathize with Abby. By the end, Ellie is clearly the more terrible person than Abby, at least that’s what the game wants you think. The story is not thought out because the whole plot relies on major conveniences and unbelievable choices made by out of character people. We all saw Joel’s death coming, but the way it was executed and all the retcons going it’s a pretty petty fucking way to kill off a beloved character.
You know what? After watching this and really thinking and seeing things in a different light I can actually see the genius in the storyline now. Just like you were at one point, I've been hating on this story HEAVY but I legitimately love the intricacies and details of everything and the way you explained it, even through the editing was perfect. Wish I could've understood this sooner so I didn't waste my time trashing it. Thank you for this video man.
It didn't change for me. Pacing and subvertion for the sake subvertion are horrible in this game.
@@brucedao2360 I can understand disliking some of the pacing or the gameplay switch, but the stories told themselves I have no issues with.
Welcome to this side man. You should play it again with all this in mind. Its fucking incredible.
this is so wholesome :)
The game plays with emotions that are so core to who you are and how you see the world, that I don't think it's bad that you hated the game for so long. The game's story asks the players to confront a part of their emotions that are honestly difficult to deal with even in a therapy setting. But it's... beautiful in a way. The game put you through things you didn't want to go through. That I didn't want to go through. And how dare those people put us through that? We'll never forgive them for making us experience that, for ruining what we loved so much.
You have felt that hate, now you can choose to forgive, just like Ellie. You honestly have probably had a more profound experience with this game than someone who loved it right away.
How can a game that does that to you not be a masterpiece?
I'm 38 years old. the first time I watched the ending I cried, like, tears flowed down my cheeks. watching this again in this video I cried like a 2 year old, i mean bawled. really I bawled.
and it felt really good. thank you naughty dog and thank you for bringing out the light in this game in such an educational way
WTF
i cried at the end as well. i knew dina was gonna be gone :/
Everything I held during the game broke down at "but I'd like to try". The feels man...
bro no fricking way you have to be like 19 or 20 something
I'm 38 too and I agree. It felt damn good to cry and actually feel a cathartic release. It's been years since I cried over any media. That's why I just cant stop playing through this game. It just keeps getting better and the layers of understanding deepen each time. Cant wait for DLC and or factions
You’re one of the bravest people I’ve seen on RUclips, it takes a lot of courage to do a video like this when you could just go completely silent like most haters that changed their mind.
Massive respect to you.
Personally,
I never hated the game, it did left me very conflicted at the end though, but if that’s what the game is trying to do, then good. Because in games like this the true qualifier isn’t a happy ending but whether the game delivers its message in relationship to its thematic purpose. As a wise couple once said, you can choose how hard the game will be, but you cannot choose the difficulty of forgiving someone. So in the end the true boss is ourselves.
Nice day to ya.
Guess you could say it was...
"stunning and brave"
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Wise couple = Matt and Shelby
@Annabeth Chase correct! :)
Lol. "Bravest person you know"
Thats funny
Really? You criticize this game and you get called a homophobe bigot lol.
This is the kind of mature, insightful commentary sorely lacking in this era of fan entitlement. You’ve not only done your research, you’ve brought meaningful comparisons to other popular franchises like Avatar and Star Wars. Bless you for this.
K but they ruined star wars and I genuinely feel like Joel could have been in at least one more game it I wasn’t ready to move past his story
@@filletmignon5221 he is 60 something in the second game, wtf do you mean? how many people do you know that can do the things that Joel needed to do in order to make a game out of it?
You basically explained what I and many others felt playing the game first time around. I never cared what the haters believed, they clearly didn't understand the characters. Very well spoken/written, fantastic analysis.
Yeah, I loved the part where Abby the hulk smashes through the story and says she was happy to kill a pregnant women, and feels no remorse for her actions. It’s just so cool 🥰
Ehh they're not completely off base. The first trailer showing Joel as the one to grab Ellie and switched it with Jess it's completely false advertising. I'm not completely against previous characters being wrote off but between that and restarting as Abby when things go down at the theater is a real hot mess in story telling. Great game in theory and but poorly executed and false narrative is hard to come back from.
@SavVvy-y did you not notice how the game shows how good abby is and how evil ellie is? and who tf sends a pregnant woman goes out to the field IN A ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE...does she not care for her child???
@SavVvy-y yeah but i was mostly just adding on the pregnant lady in the field part
lots of people actually understands the characters. they just hated the fact that IT HAD TO FUCKING TRANSITION SO FAST. TLOU is a journey game and doing such a thing is the dumbest and wildest thing one can do when it comes to ADVENTURE games.
I've been so confused with the hate about this game.
Thankfully more people are seeing it for what it is. Thank you sir for sharing your change of mind!
I was spoiled by the leaks, and not enthusiastic about playing it. Then my friend Gameshared, and by the end I was completely blown away and exhausted. A masterpiece.
good to hear that you didnt got stuck on the spoilers like so many did
I didn’t think of it as a masterpiece but a 8/10 props to naughty dog
@@astronomical3342 8/10 is still damn fucking good considering that 10/10 is an impossable ideal to sugest 8/10 is avrage to good sugests just how haded the games media has made us in regards to this
When a loved one dies, whether it be a fictional or a real character/person, people will go through this thing called 5 stages of grief. In the first few days when the game dropped, people are struggling to cope with Joel's death(Denial, Anger, Bargainning, Depressed). But as time goes on, people would start to accept the fact that Joel is no longer with us and just move on with life.
At least that's how I see it.
Didn't care for Joel and I still hated this pile of shit.
Those who hated the game the most, hated it before it were released because of perceived feminism and wokeness. None of that were present in the game, but the very notion of a game not being centred around men.
@@SummerOfMayhem 100% Every alternative plot they think "shoudl've" happened that I've seen recenters the plot around Joel and Tommy. Every single one.
@@SummerOfMayhem
Two pregnant women in the front lines.
A trangender kid that killed his mother because she was transphobic and didn't accept that her daughter wanted to a boy.
A buff girl, that people accuse players of being toxic for not liking her.
There was a lot of it this game.
@@trevorphilips9065 I doubt that lmfao, you literally play Joel for 90% of the game in The Last Of Us 1 so how could you hate him.
I know how extremely late to the party I am but, I loved it. I finished both within 3 weeks and I loved it. Knowing more is in the works, it’s gory yet pure. I love the message in both. You’re willing to give the world for the ones you love even if others are hurt or even die in the process. Love makes you stupid.
When you lose that love in whatever form it comes anger can be the fuel to the fire.
You will do stupid shit for revenge but when it comes to it, you’re lucky to have had that love at all in this fucked up world.
If you love something let it go, the best thing you can do is lead your life with the love you had as a core memory.
Forgiveness may not be the cure for anger but if you can move on, you’ll be stronger than before.
I love it.
Maybe i read to much into it loving art like I do.
But none the less that was my take away
This is one of the more nuanced pieces of visual media I've ever experienced. I'm very happy it exists in spite of the hate.
the world of the last of us isn't ours to mold, we are here to experience it.
Someone said it. I really needed to hear this people piss and moan about satisfaction but that isn’t the story this is supposed to develop ellie and put her through pain. This game is amazing
@@YourMom-fm1qo its absolutely amazing how much happens - I was kept guessing and suprised way more than when I played the first one and dear GOD THE GRAPHICS they're beautiful
XTREMEKILLERMAN 7 ... It’s not ours to mold, but a good story would a been great ... Not this cluster effin mess....
@@ryanhageali weirdly accurate.
Exactly. As cosmonaut said “we as players have become too addicted to the idea that our choices are the ones that matter.”
When you focus your channel on a certain thing/topic you’re going to do big things
That means a lot and is the place I’m stuck right now!!! Thanks !!!
@@CELLYgg I’m subbed up ready to see what you do. Good luck bro
@@CELLYgg try another gaming video, or film or TV, something along those lines...
*Whisper* do a prequals videos ;)
@@josefwareham135 13 hour prequel analysis on the way🙂
@John Johnson he right tho
OMG THANK YOU! If you just sit back and think about the game you realize that its such a masterpiece of storytelling and gameplay, and im so happy more people are realizing this and realizing that Naughty Dog made the perfect sequel. Also love the Avatar comparison, I never thought about that but it is very similar.
I totally agree with you when reading reviews I genuinely did not understand why people thought it was bad it was baffling
The way you edit is immaculate. And the avatar reference!!!?? *chefs kiss*
The firefly quote sums up both games. "When you're lost in the darkness look for the light". The first game is about the LIGHT in the darkness - optimism, innocence, friendship, and hope in a brutal and dark world, and the ending, despite it's darkness is about love. Tlou 2 is about being lost in that darkness. Losing purpose and filling that void with resentment, sufferring, hatred, and death. Only at the end, do the characters start to see the light again. Abby rekindles her belief in the fireflys, and Ellie forgives Joel, making peace with his memory.
"If I ever were to lose you, I'd surely lose myself". Ellie never finishes the song when she sang it throughout the game. This proofs that she wasn't able to accept the truth (forgive) and not that only she lost Joel, she also lost herself (revenge). But after she's able to forgive, she also let go of the revenge.
No, no that doesn't make sense...You can't forgive someone through someone else like that. That's like Luke forgiving Darth Vader for Obi-wan lying about his dad. Hence he forgives Obi-wan and let's go of his resentment. Or, you know, how Ben forgave himself for killing his dad by seeing his the memory of Han...
I wouldn't say she forgave because she never can forgive Joel now that he is gone. She just accepts that Joel is dead and must live with regret.
@@Jetblast01 Right.
@@Jetblast01 She felt victimized because Joel was taken away from her, but she remembered that all of this weighs so heavily on her because she couldn't forgive. Letting everything go is her redemption and her way to find inner peace, she has realized that she is no longer the victim, the monster she fears the most is inside her, not inside Abby. If a Player can find peace only by seeing the "antagonist" dead regardless of everything then there is something wrong with the media we play. Abby's story arc is literally Ellie's cautionary tale. You hate Abby, because you are like her, your hate won't stop until you'll see your "antagonist" dead, just to realize that it wasn't worth it. And if you think it was worth it, then I'm sorry, but you don't truly care about yourself, and THIS wouldn't make sense.
@@Gabriel-Tár That's still dumb...this isn't a world or setting such pretentious thinking would work. See why Joel killed Marlene in the end of the last game...Abby is a straight up piece of shit that deserved to die for reasons besides killing Joel. She's literally no different from the NPCs you killed in the first game, the kind that are all "buddy buddy" with each other (until they died) but will brutally kill just about anyone and anything else (unless you have plot armor). All they did was give Abby plot armor so she couldn't do nor kill Ellie in return. And given your logic, guess Jesse could just go eat shit...since he didn't matter to Ellie. And it also makes Ellie a selfish bitch since this game it's all about HER and how SHE feels which isn't how she was in the original.
I played this game in a two day binge with like 4 hours of sleep in between (I died a lot, had food/ bathroom breaks and was pretty high) and loved this game for all of these reasons after getting back to the home screen. My partner watched me play and we had HEAVY discussions about all of the layers to the story and I cried enough for us both lol
Wow someone who actually seriously analyzed the game! Hah great video
Wow guys, if you don’t like TLOU2 you just didn’t analyze it
TheBeaverInHD he’s not saying that. He’s saying it for the people who literally talk shit and say the game was complete trash or are sending death threats to actors and writers of the game just because the game didn’t go their way or they refused to see why the writers did what they did.
@Dodger Yeah I’m not defending death threats or them hating on Ashley Johnson or Laura Bailey. It was simply a joke dude calm yourself
@@callmepsycho3132
It what way was that a joke? It seemed more like sarcasm.
And why do they need to calm down? They didn't insult you, they never insinuated you thought or agreed with those things. He specifically says " He's saying it for the people who..".
It feels like I’ve been trying to say the exact same thing for weeks now but this video did a better job articulating it. Hopefully in the next month or maybe years, fans won’t be so blinded with hate and it’s definitely a game that needs more than 1 play through to pick up on some of the more subtle story telling aspects.
Yup Second play through with initial feelings detached is sooooo nice
NO. Sorry but NO.
I already traded my copy in and WILL NEVER TOUCH IT AGAIN.
I couldn't even be bothered to even get the rest of the trophies.
The game is ass, from the garbage ass story, from piss poor gameplay.
I say it now and will be saying it 20 years from now. This game is a big "Fuck You" from Naughty Dog for people loving the first game. That is how I see it and forever will.
I personally despise this game. Just like my feelings on MGS V The Phantom Pain have never changed and my deep founded hatred of it. Just like to this very day, I HATE Resident Evil 4, I hated it in 2005 and I STILL hate it in 2020.
My mind is already made up and first impressions are everything. I will never change my opinion.
@@LUCKO2022 whatever makes you sleep at night, mate
@@LUCKO2022 Maybe you should find an actual hobby that you might like........sounds like gaming isn't for you........have you tried reading a book?!?
@@synisterv7703 Maybe you should play actual good games instead of the crap Naughty Dog produces you know they make cliche stories right
we need that second video boss
I loved your take on this video
@5555Thecrow he literally linked his stream in the description of the video in which he played the game for the first time and in it the guy clearly hated the ending and overall the entirety of the game.
I'm working on an analysis video myself, anyway I can run some ideas by you two guys? Only asking because of both of your videos are amazing
It is a masterpiece in my eyes. I love it so much, arguably more than the first game. Its so beautiful and emotional and just human.
I completely agree.
It's a trainwreck in my eyes, it's dark, bleak and poorly written, the pacing of the game is just awful.
@@tomfoolery7797 ok tom
@@big-boss-man- that's right big man. 😂
@@tomfoolery7797 hi tom
Spot on you got it. This is a game that holds a mirror to today's society, how wrapped we are in our egos and expectations, and challenges us to see beyond our perceptions/expectations. I have never played a game that challenges me as an individual. It is a powerful msg and one they were successful at conveying imo even if a lot people missed it. The game does require some reflection and with a second play through things start to become even clearer.
Yessir
You didn't prove the story to be good. You just used emotive and pseudo-philosophical jargon to distort the reality of the story.
You're welcome to like it, but you cannot say it is objectively good.
@@OliverLee789 her video was terrible and missed the point of why people didn't like it.
@@loubloom1941 These fanboys are just trying to make Neil seem like a genius the guy seems like a narcissist
@@trevorphilips9065 sure is easy to put those who disagree with you into a specific group and make assumptions about them hmmmmm
UPDATE 2: Finished my second playthrough. I understand all things. This game is a few changes away from being a masterpiece. The biggest boss battle in the game is literally yourself.its not about not choosing revenge, it’s about doing what’s right or choosing the truth even when it’s really really hard. Characters are not inconsistent, the writing isn’t bad, you don’t have to like Abby, the pacing is fine (for the most part) its just extremely based in the reality of what the last of us 2 world is. No sugar coating no unrealistic heroes ending we expect from games/movie. Just decisions and results. I think I can follow this up with a part 2 video of this one, and feel good about my effort to help people like it. Not going to check comments here anymore, if you want to talk hmu on socials
UPDATE: couple things. This my first time doing a vid like this so I know it’s not perfect lol will learn how to be better with audio in future. My original plan was to make this 7 minutes so it wouldn’t be a movie but I just couldn’t take out any more from the vid. It was originally like 50 minutes lmao. This is NOT a review, this is my own journey with it. Finishing my second survivor+ play through, and I stand by most of what I say in this video still. I don’t think this game can be a true “masterpiece” unless a part 3 brings it home STRONG. There are for sure issues, I think many that people bring up are nitpicking, but there are a few things for sure that hold it back from being a perfect game. I’m going to do a video on this next, but the purpose of making this was so anyone who like me thought this whole journey was for the basic message of revenge is bad to realize it isn’t and maybe if you realize this you’ll see the game different. If you knew that and still hate it or love it awesome. Either way the discussion here is all over the place nasty and beautiful so I’m glad i did this in the end. Thanks for watching and if you want proof I actually hated it at first here is my immediate reaction to finishing the game lol:
www.twitch.tv/videos/657042201?t=03h23m34s
I'm glad the video was this long.
I'm so glad you expressed your journey.
Thank you for making me cry again.
Thank you for making this video.
Thank you for posting this. I was legit depressed about Joel’s death and literally grieved over it. The journey over the first game where I fell head over the heels for the characters, the storyline and cinematic views etc and to see Joel die in the manner he did tore at every fiber of my being. To then play as Abby killed me as I tried to make her jump off a cliff and die. Once I finished it, I felt numb. I still loved the new experience and would still play pt3, but his death...damn and especially since I didn’t kill all the people in the op room, but when u incorporated atla and the guru episode I legit understood your point and how she needed to learn to let him go. That Ellie’s behaviors are done in an effort to be like Joel, where he just wanted her to be happy and to be loved. So thank you again, you truly made me see this game in a different light and while I never hated it, I think I’m finally ok with Joel having died and Ellie and us (the gamers) learning to let him go as well.
Celly, great video and this is exactly how my experience played out. I think it is a masterpiece of the human condition. Ellie IS NOT Joel and our experience is of a lost soul trying to fill the void by becoming what was lost. This is why Ellie wears Joel's clothes & attempts his maneuvers interrogating. The other very important role is the setting: many of the major events take place in a theater. That was chosen for a reason. A theater is where you go to watch people pretend to be somebody else, right? We are participating in Ellie: The Play which makes a lot of sense if you remember the team did this...
ruclips.net/video/jRSo4j51waI/видео.html
Bless you sir. A breath of fresh air.
Holy crap, someone who gets it, who's not blinded by rage, the games a master piece, story telling wise and game play
Honestly the hatred towards this game is being taken way too far y'all need to let it go
No ppl waited 7 years for a bad game
fangirl frisky hope ya make peace with it eventually 🤷🏻♀️✌️
@@fangirlfrisky man its just the story which took a different turn and that makes it a bad game??
@@fangirlfrisky Damn, it's almost like you didn't watch the video at all.
@@fangirlfrisky and where lied to and misled right upto the leaks happening
the slight detail around 22:05 when she says “but” (after Joel’s heart was just crushed after being told she doesn’t think she can ever forgive him), and Joel’s eyes immediately dart over at the prospect of anything to grasp onto. 😵💫
It was only once I realized that this game was about forgiveness, and not revenge, that I started to appreciate it. And now it's one of my all time favorite games.
fr, in south america we have a show where a character says something about revenge, it's very annoying when people always repeat what the character said when they talk about tlou 2
I realized this is the story they are telling now and believe what an awesome story of redemption.
yall got a towel or anything
i just need some simple T o w e l s and ill be on my way
It was basically a domino effect with Joel’s action at the hospital. From there it was a
Constant war of seeking revenge until Abby decided not to kill Ellie & Dina… then Ellie deciding not to kill Abby & Lev.
Me after seeing Joel's death: I don't know if I could ever forgive you for that...
Naughty dog: ...
Me: But I'd like to try.
yup
Not everyone has the ability to forgive.
I'd like that.
I’m still fucken pissed off! On my second play through btw. With unlimited ammo someone’s gonna need a lot of body bags this time around naughty dog!
@@anessamer Everyone has the ability to forgive.
This is exactly how I felt when I played the game and I’m so happy that I’m not the only one who see’s it
After I done watching TheRadBrad finish this game, I kinda get fond on the soundtrack of this game cause it's amazing, and I notice that there is one song called "The Cycle Continues" by Mac Quayle and this song was played during the fight between Ellie and Abby, the RUclipsr named TLOU Strategists said that if Ellie continues to murder people and forgets the people she loves, she will slowly becoming Joel and the cycle will continue if she kills Abby
I actually enjoyed this game the first play through but fell in love with it the second time. It was much easier to follow and I was way more interested in Abbys story. One thing that surprised me is how much I got attached to Owen. He was such a good hearted guy but would do anything for Abby which ended up getting him killed. I still think the game dragged on. It’s not a perfect but it’s resonated with me in a way that I haven’t felt in a long time.
FYI: your editing is really good. This is the first video I watched of yours.
Why did you do this intro? I cried so hard. It hurts. I love this game but man did that hurt.
God I really loved your last point about part 2, that the people hating so adamantly on the game were literally being just like Ellie. It was like everyone became children who got upset, deciding "I don't like it" then stubbornly refuses to see any reason. I think those people shouting so loudly set so many people up to hate it bcs it made them go in Expecting they would and when you do that it gets a lot harder to enjoy anything
The thing is that truly believe that ellie had somewhat of a good ending theres a letter you find at the farm when you are with Dina and the baby. It's Jesse's parents saying that ellie and dina will always have a place in Jackson if they choose to come back home. And if you notice when ellie goes to santa barbara she was not wearing dina's bracelet but when she returns from santa barbara the camera zooms in on her fingers wich look almost completely healed we were focused on the fingers missing but looked completely passed the fact that now she is wearing the bracelet indicating that she has already been to Jackson and is living with Dina she just went back to the farm for the guitar but decided to leave it That represents her finally being able to accept Joel's death and bring an end to the cycle of revenge
If you also notice when she enters the house she doesn't seem surprised that its empty and she doesn't call out dina's name, she doesent have her guns on her and she is wearing new clothes.
Thats not a happy ending
Why is all her stuff in the old house tho? Even her gee-tar
And you can't see if she's wearing the bracelet or not when she leaves the farm because she's wearing Joels jacket.
@@JimmyCrackCorn72 But when she goes into the farm house she has it on.
@@aztro_no She knows she cannot play her guitar anymore, and also she just wants to leave all her stuff behind and start a new life thereafter
THIS VIDEO MAKES ME SO HAPPY THANK YOU, ive been trying to explain this to people and you FUCKING GET IT... YEESSS
The cool thing is is that the message was never truly defined as one message, if you really take the time to think about it you can come to this answer, or even something like the destruction and pain that obsession causes. ITS FUCN GREAT.
I think this games main flaw is the pacing, nearly everything else is almost perfect.
The real tragedy with this story is that they never expressed their feelings for each other.
I think that could have been handled better but the way the game turned out personally I dont think could have gone out any other way and still have the same effect. Maybe a few things could have been swapped around but what we got was a slice away from a masterpiece.
“Revenge is bad” is a surface level reading about what the game is about. It’s about the ends people will go to in order to achieve closure on the traumas in their lives, even if it means subjecting others to immense emotional trauma and the circular manner in which trauma is perpetuated.
Its also about forgiveness and moving on. Basically, the game is about the Human Nature and the negative and positive aspects of it.
Damn...
footferry1589 yep
Revenge is bad is a surface level reading of the criticism of this game
Crazy Cletus sales doesn’t equal the game being good and did you see that sales dropped by 80% in the second week. Just because a game is hyped up doesn’t mean we equate the sales to quality because than anthem would be goat because of its high sales
That jump scare at the end
That was unappreciated and I think I’m gonna go on a revenge journey
This game is so meta. It's teaching me in real life how to slowly forgive ND for making it.
Forgiveness is not easy. Trust me
😂😂😂
Oh no not killing dogs in a video game lol
@Ivan Teoh Shen Yue bro that's the entire point. if you notice ellie, as you progress through the game as her, u can quite literally see her go down a dark path. in the beginning, she notices her surroundings, and make comments on stuff you pick up. but as the game goes on, she stops talking to dina (very noticeable in the pride bookstore) and she stops noticing the world around her. she tunnel visions into killing abby (sorry if i used the phrase incorrectly, english isnt my first language). and when she had the chance to go get tommy as opposed to abby at the aquarium, she goes after abby. all this points to how she is getting worse as she kills more and more people. she had mental breakdowns after killing and torturing those people. i think it would be unfair to the makers of this game to say that killing those people had no effect on her after they put all that effort into showing that it is.
Vinay Naidu ok
The best written stories are the ones that make you feel conflicted
In inspiring and gripping ways, yes, and not ONLY. This game merely inspired me to go back to the first part.
Yes, but not applicable to this story.
@@13Psycho13 false. what's "flaws" do you see in the story?
@@testing_something The dumb choices by the characters to further the plot is not great writing. This game gets too much hate but at the same time I laugh at people saying the story was a masterpiece cuz it was too forced and had too many flaws.
@@88K-d6h the fact that you can't even say what are the "flaws".
You just said it's "bad writing"
You know, i bought the collectors edition if this game and was sort of disappointed I did because I didn't really like this game. But after watching your very well done video, I LOVE this game! You've opened my eyes to a new outlook on this and for that, I thank you from the bottom of my heart. THIS video needs to go viral and every TLOU 2 player should see it.
Haha hey man I'm really happy u came around to it! I really liked this game from the start and it bummed me out seeing the hate it was getting. But more and more people and realizing the real messages and meaning behind it and it makes me so happy.
Dude I still come back to this video years later. It’s so well done. The power of critical thought is wild.
Appreciate you!
It’s epic too because it reflects real life. No real bad or good sides. Just people fighting for what they believe in. Loves that it makes us focus more on the reasons for human behavior, justified and unjustified, instead of looking at it as sports teams to cheer on for. RIP Joel
Joel’s not dead, this cluster fucking game doesn’t exist ...Ellie was just having a bad dream ...
Jaden LaFrance .... Not in my world, deleted ...
This video feels like i am literally streaming my consciousness onto RUclips, every single thing you said is spot on imo
@@gavinpowell4607 lol what? why are you so mad bro? im just stating the facts, he perfectly expressed my own thoughts and feelings about the game
@Gavin Powell He’s literally stating his opinion on the video it ain’t that deep 😂
I think this game was supposed to really SHOW you how destructive and harmful blind rage and anger can be. You go on this killing journey along side Ellie for revenge at first but when you calm down a bit you're supposed to look back and see the horrific deeds you've done. But boy oh boy SO MANY people didn't look back and were angry that Ellie didn't kill Abby and didn't "get the job done".
To be fair.
Abby is a bitch.
Because the story is poor and unrealistic.
@@That-Will-Do-It very real, like abby unrealistic body even bigger than many mens in a post apocaliptic world without roids or what about cordyceps not be possible to cure because the thing is a fungus not a virus, or joel being a "precaution guy" since the outbreak and suddenly without a proper context (not with those silly notes excusing things like trades with unknow people in a fucked post apocaliptic world). And what is for jerry? The guy literally saves a zebra to make the player feel empatize with abby, too conveniently way to do it. Or maybe putting abby character above everyone in the story for pushing a new polític character.
@@randomgod6371 1) Abby's body is not unrealistic; in game you see the huge, professional-standard gym that they have in the WLF stadium. You also see a field full of cows (good protein) to allow her to gain muscle mass.
2) You say that it's unrealistic that they were talking about a cure, but if you take issue with that, you take issue with the ending of the first game - the climax of tlou1 revolved around the morals of Joel stopping this cure to happen.
3) Joel is cautious. He tries to think of other ways to get out of going with Abby, but decides it's his best chance to get away from the massive horde + blizzard that their horses can't handle.
4) The zebra is to show Jerry's qualities as a doctor - he wants to save things. He wants to save the world from this virus. On top of that, it's a nod to the giraffe moment in the first game - it shows the player that Abby had her own "last of us 1", where she survived the apocalypse with her own father figure.
5) Wtf are you talking about? What is a "politic character"?
Actually, the game was about the by product of revenge and violence. Not the characters and player in no way felt remorse or emotion killing the characters at all which is why many felt disappointed that Ellie basically didn't finish it off.
it’s an incredible game . i wish people didn’t give it so much hate
I'm so glad other people see the same story that I'm seeing. The Last of Us Part II is a game about grief and forgiveness disguised as a revenge plot. Never does it preach to you about revenge being bad. In a lot of ways it's exactly the story we expected -- Ellie finds out about Joel's lie and the truth about the fireflies, and their relationship deteriorates as a result. We knew this would happen based on the ending of the first game. We're left with the question of whether Ellie can ever come to peace with what Joel did and forgive him, and the game answers that. The twist is simply that this comes postmortem. Joel is dead by the time Ellie realizes she fully forgives him, but that just makes it so much more emotionally potent.
At the end of the day, a huge part of the reason Ellie has the self-destructive tenacity that she does (symbolized by her moth tattoo by the way) is that she holds onto an ocean of grief that she was never given the opportunity to deal with. She told Joel that she *wanted* to try to forgive him, but he was killed the next day. The opportunity to heal herself and her relationship with Joel was stolen from her, but when she realized the Abby she wanted to kill was already dead, she was left with the realization that all the things holding her back from moving on were either arbitrary or gone. She could no longer see Abby as the devil she thought she was, and even more importantly she realized that she had already forgiven Joel somewhere along the way. Their story ended in tragedy, but they both knew they loved each other, and there's beauty in that. Ellie walks away crippled both physically and emotionally. She was seconds away from losing herself completely, but chooses to walk away from Santa Barbara with some of her humanity still in tact. TLOU Part II isn't just a story about hatred, or Abby, or even revenge. It's a conclusion to Ellie and Joel's relationship. It's finality. It's painful, but there's still beauty in it -- and that's simply the reality of the world of TLOU.
Forgiveness is not found in the game. Acceptance and loss is the real idea. The issue is that the actual main theme of this game is a commentary on violence and revenge which it doesn't execute well. Those who say it is forgiveness o my say that as an interpretation which means they are looking at it in a theoretical view which if course is generally discarded.
I don't think it would be good for Ellie to die in a sequel, because I feel like a lot of her journey is to accept that she doesn't have to die for her life to have meaning.
Ya I would HOPE they’d let her give her immunity to the world and then live and see the effects of it and be happy w Dina or something but I could see them tearing our heart out again lol... but in this game she does say she hopes to live old like Eugene did so maybe that’s a hint
Given the entire basis for why Joel became the enemy in the first place a move like that would make it all ironically 'for nothing'
@@CELLYgg She's had a death wish ever since Riley died ("I'm still waiting for my turn") and sacrificing herself for the cure would very much resolve that, but like everything else in this series, it's all motivated by grief and trauma rather than altruism (not that Ellie isn't a nice person in general, but that's not why she wants to sacrifice herself). When she decides to try to forgive Joel in this game, that means she necessarily has to confront the idea that maybe he saved her for a good reason. Maybe she really can move on from her desire to be a martyr and live like a normal person. And yes, considering she says she wants to grow old, I think that's a big hint. Chronologically, she says that the day after she decides to try to forgive Joel, so I think it keans she is trying to understand his perspective (that she just deserves to live, period). When she leaves behind her obsession with Joel at the end, I think she's also leaving behind the idea that she has to die for her life to matter, since that is all wrapped up in her angst over him and what he did, taking her chance to die away from her. EDIT: Or at least she is beginning to leave it behind. It's not like you can just turn these things off all at once. But she is accepting that just MAYBE she can have an actual life.
@@Wveth That's such a good perspective! I love it.
lol shes not gonna die cause neil wont kill her.
I think what a lot of people fail to understand is that Joel’s death was meant to evoke the emotional outcry we all had. You were meant to feel shock, denial, depression, fury, and hatred. Why? Because it helps you connect to Ellie. Then when the POV flips to Abby you realise she was in the exact same position, only now we see that the revenge didn’t actually help her.
A lot of critiques about the narrative come down to people being emotional and not really thinking about or understanding the story properly. For instance, Joel trusting Abby. People say he never would have done so, however they forget that the town regularly took in new people and saved outsiders when necessary. There’s a note in a sign in book stating that they took in a few people while on patrol. You can also find a note in the hotel during Ellie/Joel’s flashback patrol from someone in Jackson leaving supplies for a hermit woman to gradually earn her trust and bring her into town. THEN there’s the fact that Joel, Tommy, and Abby all fight together against a horde. He would have lowered his guard thinking if she WAS a threat she would have turned on them in the chaos. Oh and it’s been 5 years since they arrived in the town. Joel had finally gotten to a point in his life where he wasn’t just fighting to survive anymore, and without that daily struggle and desperation he wasn’t as savage as he used to be.
Anyway, this game was bloody amazing! Sadly people are just shitting on it because it challenged them emotionally and analytically. Most of the reviews don’t offer constructive criticism either which is pretty unfortunate, they simply state what they didn’t like and don’t go into why.
You literally took the words out of my mouth!! I love this story & the first story 😀 I think both games are awesome 😀
I'm quite sure there are plenty of people who got the point of the story and also understood that the narrative was poorly executed. Its rather arrogant for you to claim that a lot of the people who had issues with this game are just ignorant of what the story was trying to express. You don't need to be some scholar to understand it. However, there are numerous instances of characters undertaking actions that make zero sense, the number of coincidences in the game requires a suspension of disbelief and some things that are just jarring. Jessie dies and he barely gets mentioned after that? Are we seriously supposed to care about Abby? She doesn't seem to regret anything and is ok with the killing of children, sleeping with a guy who has a pregnant girlfriend and who is emotionally vulnerable, she was going to happily gut a pregnant dina until lev stopped her, she basically starts slaughtering all her friends for some kids she literally just met. Sorry it was difficult to connect or have empathy with the character. Lev seemed to get over the loss of his sister really quick. Seemed like a lot of the game choices were done for cheap shock value. Tommy all of a sudden becomes a blood thirsty maniac? Huh? Made zero sense for him to rush off one day ahead of Ellie. He knew they wouldnt be able to hold her town. I'm not buying the whole Ellie leaving her life on the farm to go back to the revenge mission, especially at the behest of Tommy. Abby just happens to get to rescued by Joel and Tommy? How convenient. Amazing how they can all find eachother in a city the size of seattle (weeks away from where they live) while they are all sneaking around avoiding multiple enemy factions. The game had technical achievements. The story ND wanted to tell is fine, but their execution of it fell short and hence the game falls short of being a masterpiece.
@@red2977 Honestly...in my opinion...you have to actually see & understand the characters with how they're feeling & going through. It's the apocalypse. Sometimes the adrenaline in you kicks in & you're not even thinking about your losses in the moment or you just feel more angry than pissed in the moment. Thing is...those are some of the things that some of you don't really think or understand with the story on both sides. Thing is...it's to show that Abby was soooo obsessed with finding Joel & killing him. She wanted to use Tommy as a link to get to Joel & kill him. So...her moment of meeting Joel & Tommy with those things going after her was by chance actually. She never knew that they would be there. And when she found out that it was Joel she wanted to kill him for killing her dad. And to show both Abby's side & Ellie's side of the story is show that with Abby being so obsessed on wanting revenge to kill Joel & then killing him in front of Ellie & then Ellie wanting revenge....was to show that actions have consequences. Now I'm sure that sometime after Ellie & Dina found the farm & had JJ that they had convos about Jessie you know. But they don't show that. They still probably miss him deeply but thing is...you can't really be sad about someone forever. You have to learn to move on. You can still miss them deeply yes but to be upset or cry over someone all the time...that's not good. It was to show that Dina & Ellie have moved on from losing Jessie & were trying to have a good life for themselves & JJ. But it was Ellie's emotions & trauma/PTSD from losing Joel in front of her that still lingered in her mind & she couldn't get over that even though she tried think that she shouldn't go after Abby. Tommy wanted revenge too. He lost his brother. He thought that Ellie would help with that. He thought that she still felt the same way she did months before or so. He did what he thought was right, to go talk to her about going after Abby to get justice. Ellie thought that going after Abby after that would make things better. You can't get your loved ones back after getting revenge/justice. You end up feeling regret yrs later. Abby realized over time from getting her revenge caused her loved ones death. Ellie learned that later on after Jessie & almost losing Tommy & Dina. Abby never knew that Dina was pregnant. She even thought like, "I know you killed my pregnant friend...& I understand that if you never knew that she's pregnant but...I'll let her live. Her baby is the future. But so was my friend's baby. I don't want to see you again.". Basically...both Ellie & Abby went through a lot & it was to show both of their struggles, emotions & what they were thinking & everything. But again...it was to show that actions have consequences. Their actions (wanting revenge) caused them losing a loved one, a friend.
Abby was not in the exact same position 😅 her father was about to murder a child and experiment on her brain with no informed consent. That's some nazi shit. And that's the legacy that Abby sought vengeance for.
Thank you!!
If you pay close enough attention (which a lot of people tend not to do when they’re emotional) Joel asks who they are, and they say “guess” and Joel realizes in his face that they’re fireflies, and then he accepts it.
When we say it's not a story for everyone we don't mean it on a condescending way (like saying "I'm more brilliant & more analytical than you") NO, rather it's meant on an emotional cathartic way. The game is not for everyone DEPENDING on how willing or not you turn out to overcome Joel's death. And by overcoming it doesn't mean that you will love him any less (in fact, after everything I even come to love & appreciate him even more + I came to realise how his death had a complete background behind it [fate had to catch up with him given that he could achieve closure for Sarah's death by saving Ellie however he had to keep the cycle of violence alive if he wanted to get her out of the hospital] & ends up having a bigger contribution for the story [Ellie broke with the domino effect that he wasn't able to by the end of part 1]) however overcoming his death means that you got to engage in a bigger emotional journey that you could have ever imagined. Many stories just leave us with the death of a beloved character & that's it but here they wanted to take us on the journey of catharsis, the path to come to terms with this loss along with Ellie (the dimension of Naughty's dog risk per se). If you couldn't get past it, you are likely stuck on this hatred loop towards the game (the best example when life imitates art). It might not have been the story you wanted to hear or that you were expecting to play for years but the boldness of its proposal itself deserves by far more recognition.
Precisely dude, exactly. Agree with you in every way!
part 1 = for everyone, part 2 = not for everyone ... exactly the reason for it's fall
Khun Chen part 1 wasn’t for “everyone” either lol idk about y’all but I don’t judge a game or film by the ratio of love and hate it gets, some masterpiece films evoke a hell of a lot of hate
You are right. Its just not a 10/10. A 6 maybe
@@TheFreshTrumpet how is part 1 wasn’t for “everyone” ?
"People hate what they don't understand"
- Martha Kent
“This world doesn’t like those who are different Markus. Don’t let anyone tell you who you should be”. - Detroit Become Human.
We understand perfectly! The game is shit
@@jacobcash8942 no
Too many people don’t understand this game and hate on it.
@Jacob Cash Tell me the stories basis then.
I hated the game, same story you've heard a thousand fucking times before. I was at the rat king boss fight when I ultimately stopped playing, I took a break from the game for one week.
That break was everything I needed to understand this game, throughout that week I didn't read any TLOU2 shitposts or rants, I distanced myself from the game fully.
I come back to the game, I felt like shit for hurting ellie, but it was different than every other time...I had a more open view of the entire situation and the game actually made me feel what it tried to during my playthrough, I'm so happy I took that break because by the time the credits rolled I was in awe of what I has just played, and looking back on the first half differently this time.
I had put together all of the points you had made in this video and I was feeling what you were feeling
this game is fucking amazing, and the fact that a week ago I would've hated myself for thinking that shows how powerful this game really is, I can say for certain that no other game has made me take such a 180 on my decisions and think this hard about a story and it's so impressive what I just fucking played last night.
There was an old rancher in the first jack and daxter game who you had to herd his cows in for and he would give you one of those orbs you had to collect, for some reason it always stuck with me, I found it strangely fun, it was a change of pace from the rest of the game and made me like that universe alot more, it made it feel more real instead of just fucking up bad guys, I think that's the thing that made me fall in love with videogames, (story based ones atleast) and at the end of this game you had to herd in some sheep into ellies barn (wow so interesting) but it reminded me of that Jack and daxter thing, and just that stupid small thing gave me such an appreciation of what naughtydog has made, and what an absolute masterpiece the TLOU series is, sequel happily included. (Like a full circle type thing yknow)
Also you made me tear up with the take on me part at the end, ty for that lol
Thanks for reading my tired attempt to put into words what this game is, also the fact that you can replay the game with cheats is hilarious so mad props to whoever came up with that idea at ND
That's why I took a month and a half to Finnish my first playthrough. I needed to think about each section I completed and what it meant. It gave me a better perspective than if I rushed it
It was that hard to understand?
@5555Thecrow Lol how sad must your life be that you copy/pasted this comment on pretty much every comment agreeing with the video
@5555Thecrow You're calling me a loser for reading comments to see the discourse around this game? At least I'm not so much a loser that I take the time to try and write a clever message (it wasnt clever) and then copy paste it on all the comments that think the game is good. And bruh i didnt "EXTRA take the time to find out" it wasnt hard since you commented like 10 times lol
@Aaron B ... Dude, I had to give you a thumbs up for this comment. The people who hated/hate the game literally let their anger and emotion at Joel's death override their rationale and thought process. As someone who loved the game from the outset it makes me happy to see that there are people re-evaluating Part 2 and realizing that the game is way better than they ever initially gave credit for. Great job!!
I think people hated this game because: a) the attachment to Joel and his death, b) the forced empathy experience over an unknown character and antagonist, and c) the perceived "woke" agenda rhetoric. Lesbian characters, the vague nonbinary antagonist, and the struggling trans scar character really pushed some people over the edge. I really think these things blinded most players into really appreciating this game for what it is: a masterpiece.
"The game and the painful journey is not to tell you that revenge is bad. Every single thing that happens in this game is for Ellie's recovery from the effects of Joel's decision and lie at the end of Last of Us 1." Deep applause, man. You got it! Thanks too for helping me realize how so many people could hate this. It's certainly a bleak and depressing tale, and I can see now how it feels like everyone is getting shit on and there's no point.
Holy shit this is dumbest thing I've ever read.
@@neku2741 why?
@@neku2741 ?? WAT, explain??
@@StyLe_Chien Recovery from a lie? Joel saves her physically and mentally. Joel tells Ellie that other people are immune too and the firefly couldn't find the cure.
He essentially tell Ellie that she wasn't special and she doesn't have to carry the weight of the world on her shoulder. She could just live her life, find a new reason to live like he did.
Imagine a 14 years old and being told that you are the last hope of humanity, the sacrificial lamb to save humanity. What mental toll would that have on a person.
I thought we as human already evolve pass the barbaric ritual of human sacrifice, but I guess we're not.
The whole game chastises you for playing it. Sorry but you obviously missed the point of the first 2 games. Abby didn't even bother to hear Joel out, she just clubs him and done. She never heard the fact that her dad was the one who threatened Joel first. Joel made the correct decision. The first game shows that the Firefly's were less than honorable, even Tommy admits this and left them. They attack safe zone in a effort to "free" the people as they claim, with ZERO regards to anything. They wanted to KILL JOEL right off the bat and didn't even want to bother honoring the deal in the first place.
Then we get to Joel's decision. He made the correct decision. They were going to butcher a child in a effort to MAYBE make a cure for the Fungus. Never mind the fact that in the real world today with sterile labs and equipment, tons of scientists and experts and perfectly operational labs haven't been able to create even 1 vaccine for fungus EVER. Don't give me the "well it's a game, not the real world" excuse since the game uses a real life fungus and is based upon reality to some extent. So what makes you think that the Firefly's could do it with a run down lab, no experts but 1 apparently,little equipment. It's not possible, it's just not. Plus even if they did, how are they going to create enough for the rest of the world and then distribute it with all that dismantled? Who says they wouldn't just use that cure in order to get their demands met? They certainly would since throughout the game they proved that they are less than noble.
Good for you, man! 25 year old version, of myself, wouldn't have understood this story, so I don't go too ballistic, for the early negative reviews (and leaks). I am now Joel's age and clearly understand telling those little innocent lies, to our daughters, to protect them, when by being untruthful, we can wind up hurting, instead. I too, did not like this as much, as the first. I think it is a great story that can progress MANY different ways. First game, was Joel's (and Ellie). This one is about Ellie (and Abby). Love the way you produced that other game/anime, to show similarities. Glad you came around, Good Job!!
In The Last of Us (3)The Final Choice: Ellie learns how to play the guitar left-handed😎 and finds a vaccine for COVID-19.
That was my idea
I’m all for a Last Of Us Part 3. I feel like Ellie’s story still has more room for development. And let’s be real here, there is definitely gonna be more Joel flashbacks in Part 3 and maybe Part 4 if that game happens as well.
yeah absolutely. Plus she gotta fix that relationship with Dina
yeah ellie’s story definitely has one more arc i think, pt4 is unlikely unless it’s a spinoff following other stories.
No no, just end it please.
nahh we don't need part 3 lmao. what we need is the prequel... story of Joel Tommy and Tess
Part 3 yes, no part 4. It needs to wrap up in 3 acts
When Ellie went to Santa Barbara she didn’t have Dinas bracelet. When she returns to the farm she has dinas bracelet on so I think she just returning to the farm to remember Joel for the last time and she actually just chillin in Jackson with the others.
I didn't catch that, so do you think Dina & JJ are waiting for her back in Jackson?
Jetravard I think she visiting from Jackson so yea
It could also mean she has the bracelet to remember Dinna... just like Joel had the watch to remember his daughter and like Ellie had the toy to remember Sam. She lost Dinna because of revenge. She could have the bracelet in her backpack or pockets.
@@DeLeo_77 it's in her bag i think cuz she ellie was trapped the rope thing she was hung up so it would have fallen in her pockets but i still hope that dina and jj is in jackson I want ellie is with dina and jj
I like my ending more because it’s not as sad lol
I get that you’re young. You have not lived a life with many choices. I find that your analogy between campy movies and a Buddhist cartoon, even if it’s the way for you to get it, was just, well kind of limited. I’m a 60 year old man who has lived these choices, more than once. I personally think that this is the best game for adults ever made. In fact, the first Last of Us game, I’d argue, was the original adult game. Made for adults. I am glad that you finally came to your conclusions and realizations. It’s life. The good and bad. It’s not my way of coming to these conclusions, but I’m glad you got it.
I really hope I'm still playing the latest video games when I'm 60! It's awesome how many senior gamers i see these days.
@@pan-semitistcommunist4181 I'm betting many millennials will be gamers in their 60s. Boomers didn't grow up with games so it makes sense why they're more rare
@@n8george you talk like a redditor lol
@@keviune how so lol
The last of us series is a masterpiece and 2 really made us see what being a bad ass does to other people. They hero is a villain in someone's eyes.
“one person’s badass is another person’s jackass” lol tho in this case I’d replace jackass with “toxic pseudo-badass” cuz they’re both just hurt people hurting people when you boil it down
@@TheFreshTrumpet exactly but its natural for a "hero" to be hurt in order to fuel their conviction. Joel is just a badass that selfishly thinks only about himself the first game while ellie and abby have to pay for his actions the second game. It's way deeper and I dont understand how people didnt get that.
"Everyone is the hero of their own story"
And a well written game could have made that point much better
Arch Angel I’ll need to see it to believe it, this game clearly worked for a shit ton of people as is
people lowkey hate this game because it was a video game that broke the nostalgia train and killed a fan favorite character for the greater story
This game is still getting me through my own trauma. I am struggling with some shit and I, almost a year ago would probably go on a rampage at the end of the world to hurt the people who wronged me. But for me now, I'm not so sure. This game helped me see that and it's why I feel so much while playing it. The Last of Us games are not the kind of games I play for fun, but ones that I play when I need to remind myself of my humanity.
Okay
You’re not ellie,
U wouldn’t go on some revenge pursuit mission. Relax
@@GojoTheHonoredOne9 Revenge can be very different than violence and murder. And can be very much worse.
Damn, this game actually made my trauma worse lmao
They also foreshadow Ellie's inability to forgive with that scene with Seth in the beginning. She could have let it go. The guy seemed to be actually apologetic but Ellie was not having it. She could not let go of something like an insult so the murder of her father figure was gonna take more that the healing power of Dina to fix.
Game: 11/10. This video: 10/10. Thanks!
The game is good because its not generic, if your hoping for a happy tale and ending then don't play it, it's good because it's heartbreaking to see Ellie go from a happy go lucky kid to destroyed and completely broken, it was never meant to be a happy story for Ellie and it leaves you feeling broken because the ellie everyone loved in the first game is gone and that is why it's a tragic masterpiece 👌
The dead pan “I don’t like this game” at the end BROKE me 😂.
How dare u emotional murder me with the avatar reference sequence 😭
I know, that was brutal af
Omgggggg finally someone changed their mind! You get it! Thank you! I’ve said from the start people hate the game because it’s hard, the decision making is rough, it goes against your morals and what you want. The characters are complex and human, they make bad decisions but that doesn’t make it a bad game, it makes it a fucking emotional rollercoaster
Why you people say „understand“ or „you get it“? Is this a religion or something? I don’t understand why people can‘t dislike the story, the narrative, the characters etc. It’s not about „getting“ something. People are not dumb, but have different perspectives and like different things. It’s nice if you like the Story or the Game, but „you get it“ is really I stupid way to tell you changed your perspective or see it with others eyes etc.
In my opinion people are doing pretty big mind-bending interprations so it fits their narratives. On both sides. There are so many and big flaws to the story...and they ARE there. And not everyone can just look over them. Some like it, some don’t. I don’t see any decision making in the game or moral. As you said, it’s a rollercoaster that drives you narrow through exactly what you should think and feel and how you shall view things. People say it fits into the world, while ignoring the whole world and just focusing on few people. I liked the approach of Part 1 more and since „I don’t get it“, the story doesn’t achieve its goal in many many ways. It’s called „the last of us“. But I don’t see anyone left. The last of humanity? Pretty much people around to kill. Last of Ellie and Joel? Both are dead at that point. And why us? She couldn’t even forgive him. Perhaps thats the problem why people don‘t „understand“ it.
@@ledpowz Because a lot of the initial hate for the game seemed like a knee jerk reaction. If people want to hate the game, that's fine but it's nice to see it getting some appreciation. Nothing wrong with that.
@@Ishiryoku well most who hate the game don't "want" to lol
powz because most of the people who hated the game didn’t do so with a full understanding of it. Like he said, they chalked it up to “revenge bad”.
The games really messes with the player's head. I love it.
FELT THE INTRO SO MUCH... i was so upset by the end and pissed off but eventually I came to terms with everything and figured out the themes and why things happened the way they did. but at the time I was so pissed..