Something that's rarely mentioned is how they handled Ellie's PTSD from not being able to save Joel and as a consequence, witnessing his brutal murder. I suffer from an acute PTSD, and when that hellish vision occured when Ellie was in the barn with the lambs I nearly threw my controller across the room. It's such an accurate depiction of the terror. They nailed it. I've had the same thing happen, from doing CPR on someone who was beyond help and died. Sometimes I wake up in the morning and lay my hands on my own chest and it feels cold like his did and Slam. I hear the screams, I see his blue lips and his body convulsing, I hear the death rattle and feel his cold chest. They depicted the horror accurately for sure. I connected with it, though. Never felt like my pain was represented in such an accurate way in media before. A surreal but beautiful form of art.
I think The Last of Us at its core is a game about humanity. I think both the first game and a second game are examining different facets of what it means to be a flawed human being, which we all are, and they’re simply examining different sides of what makes us human.
exactly, and humanity involves the good and the bad, and im pretty sure people did not want to see the bad, especially in such beloved characters. somehow it was an expectation for them to be perfect heroes in a broken world, which isnt realistic
@Aaron Bissonnette well said, look at shows like the Walking Dead, Rick, and the groups are presented as the "good" guys, but have done some real shitty stuff. At the end of the day, Joel was a killer too, Live by the sword die by the sword.
I think in the show podcast elaborate even more it's about love and how dangerous it is in certain circumstances despite being see as a positive feeling
I absolutely agree that the flashbacks are the highlight of the story and game. Seeing Joel & Ellie let their guards down and be so comfortable and happy with each other makes the tragedy of their fate so much more painful
The last of us, part 2 felt really out of order to me. I think the TLOUP2 would have flowed better if they took out the flashbacks and just put more of ellie and Joel's relationship in the beginning of the game and built up to joel death, instead of doing a 4 to 5 year time skip between the end of the first and beginning of the second game.
@@jr1364 While I do think that also would have worked, I do really think that the way they did it creates a very different and interesting exploration of grief. Us knowing that Joel is gone and where his story ends, makes those flashbacks of happiness or at least acceptance and love so much more tragic IMO. I don't think the non linear order of events was by any means arbitrary, and I do think it works. I have a ton of issues with this game's story, as I mention in my other comment if you want to check that out, but I actually quite like how they paced and introduced the flashbacks.
@@jr1364I think the point of killing Joel so suddenly and at the beginning and then showing his history was to express the idea that the impulsive decision to suddenly kill someone can happen in an instant, but you’re robbing that person of everything they ever were, or could be. - there’s so many things Joel was to Ellie, and so many places his life could’ve gone but he was suddenly killed in a heartbeat and all of that was interrupted - it’s meant to make you feel the tragedy of that loss and have it wash over you knowing that his whole history with Ellie is for naught because someone else suddenly took his life
This just takes the cake though - people who love this crappy sequel claiming that the flashbacks are the best part? Which is hugely ironic because 95% is the exact opposite of that and what the fans wanted.
One thing I'd like to add to the point at 10:17 about how Ellie could easily turn around and leave - personally I think that's a massive point of the game. It's definitely about violence and revenge, but to push it even further, it's about how letting Abby live is the first choice Ellie EVER gets to make in her life. When she got bitten she chose to die with Riley, but whoops! Turned out she was immune. Marlene chose to set her on a path to save humanity. Joel chose to take her sacrifice away from her. Joel chose to take her her to Jackson. When she was finally ready to forgive Joel, Abby took away that possibility of fixing her relationship by taking his life - and she was once again powerless to do anything about it. Seeing a pattern? So when Ellie is set on a path of revenge, it's not because she is choosing to do so; it's because she feels she HAS to. Her MOTIVES are not her own. She's as much a victim as she is the instigator and is trying to be who she thinks she needs to be in the moment (hence why she is mimicking Joel a lot in her violence) - but the violence won't help her be free. Hell, even when she thinks she's finally going to get revenge on Abby, that gets taken away from her too when Abby wins the fight. But as soon as she chooses NOT to follow the path of revenge she was set on, she finds some level of inner peace. She doesn't necessarily forgive Abby in that moment - she forgives JOEL. She lets go of the weight of that burden... and is finally able try to move on, and find her own path in life. This is the main reason I don't actually know if Ellie will be the main character in the next game. I feel her story has more or less been completed, in the sense that her future is finally her own. We don't know for sure if she actually wanted to find a cure - it's just what Marlene wanted her to do. It could definitely be an interesting story, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Ellie's walk into the sunset be her final scene, leaving her future open to all possibilities.
This is something that I've had on my mind for a while. Most of Ellie's choices and agency is taken away from her. Some of it is just because of life and some by other people. Like you said, she couldn't die with Riley. I think both the Fireflies and Joel took her choice away from her because I don't think we FULLY understood Ellie's POV about being the cure until the end of the first game and again in TLOU. Ellie couldn't fully repair her relationship with Joel because of Abby, so on and so for. What's interesting when it comes to the cure storyline is that I really do believe that Ellie made that her "purpose". In the letter from Ellie's mother, she tells Ellie to find her purpose and hold onto it. Ellie tells Dinah she can't infect her but she can't cure her either. I think a lot o Ellie's story is purpose and when that is take away, what does Ellie have? What will be her reason to survive? I'd like to think with the ending that she's going back to Jackson. Ellie has the bracelet from DInah so there's speculation that the two of them are back together but I like to think she's going back to Jackson, that she has a place with them in that community. The only thing I could think about for a TLOU3 if it continued Ellie's story would be the question of, does Ellie have the same purpose? If we put the cure storyline to rest, what would Ellie choose? To be the savoir to mankind? Or does she have a bigger purpose than that?
Ellie will definitely be a big part of 3. It’ll come full circle where she’ll sacrifice herself for the cure. I hope Abby is in it, she was my favorite character in part 2. Voice acting for Abby was great.
I feel like the whole point of the revenge "drag" of Ellies part of the story IS the feeling the player has about "Ellie, stop this and go home" It is the exact same feeling I got at the end of Part 1 when you have to shoot the whole god damn hospital down to get Ellie out of there. I felt very bad and it was a real gut punch to have to do that knowing that this was not good at all. I litterally doubted at some moment if I would finish the game as I didn't want that. (Until i remembered, its not a game where I play the hero, it is a game where the devs let me play THEIR story). Same goes for Ellies story. And half way you basically act on that feeling with Abby. With Abby you feel together with here that all the violence has to stop. She is trying to coop with things herself as others tell her how she is a piece of shit. Really nice contrast and very well executed to give people the feeling they should have. And to be fair, i think that the biggest reason for people hating the game is that they are not playing the hero storie they wished it was. No heroes death for Joel who doesn't deserve it, no revenge arc with a happy ending and a forced perspective change to let you see what happens after revenge.
11:40 i personally loved jesse and was petrified when he got shot and died so quick. he was extremely likeable and you spend a good amount of time with him as ellie. he was a good dude, sadly roped into everything
as Stuart said in the video, there was nothing particularly special about Jesse. The sections where you ventured out with him as your companion as Ellie felt different than with Dina, or Joel, though. Ellie was protected by Joel in the first game, then became the protector of Dina in the second game, but with Jesse they felt driven by the same goal; protect Dina (even though Ellie's want for revenge eventually becomes more important), and I really liked the dynamic of Ellie not falling into either of those roles with Jesse. Jesse felt more understated, but the sections where he talks about his mother were really compelling, and, personally, he represents someone less brutal in a very brutal world; he's a son, and preparing to become a father, and those things are important in their own rights, even if they appear unremarkable in a story about more remarkable people. The way they handled his death - the quickness of it, the way we had no time to linger on it, and instead, advance to the Ellie/Abby fight, I think, really represents how quickly humanity is snuffed out in a world as cruel as TLOU, and that not adapting to the cruelty (in the ways Ellie and Abby did) will catch up with you. Jesse was a cool guy. RIP.
@@xXGizMonkeyXx well said, but i just clicked with jesse idk. i was really sad when he died, when you go to find tommy with him the little conversations added a lot to their friendship, along with the beginning of the game when he wakes her up
@@aaronbissonnette i liked jesse dying suddenly--people are all mad at TLOU2 bc Joel didn't get some heroic death but in reality that's not how people die. In war, the most special and interesting and funny and loved people you know will die like dogs instantaneously by the most random shit bc that's just how life has to go.
@@Blexg yeah im not sure what people expected. joel isnt supposed to be a hero. ironically enough, him doing a good deed by saving abby got him killed. so technically he died for doing the right thing. much like in real life, you arent gonna be rewarded for doing the right thing, usually ends up being the opposite
@@Blexg and the thing about jeese’s death, of it being so quick and you process it, i found that incredibly real and raw. i dont see how its a negative that “oh its just for shock” then people complain about things “not being realistic” when that’s probably the most realistic way to die in a scenario like that. you’re shot in the face, and you’re fucking gone
I think it's so amazing that the one person who can accurately understand what Ellie was going through was the one she was hunting. But they were too far into their emotions to accept that maybe if they just talk to each other about their trauma and thirst for vengeance and the cost, they could gain far more than they ever could beating the crap out of each other. I personally think the story is amazing. However the game is REALLY long. Like almost too long but there is so much necessary development across both story lines that it's kind of necessary. And I love how the last thing Ellie lost in her struggle was one of the most important things Joel gave her, the ability to blay guitar. I don't care what the detractors say. The story is emotionally impactful and fantastic
A lesson I learned a long time ago was that life is a cycle of Loss and Growth. Growth means that you have to Lose things, and Losing things means you have to Grow to live without them. It's a perpetual cycle of growth leading to loss leading to growth leading to loss, but every time you complete this cycle you move on to greater and more permanent things, and through this cycle create something that'll change the world and the lives of the people you love. Or, you could be incapable of moving beyond your loss and never growing, or never growing because you don't want to lose what you have. Ellie and Abby are both characters that were incapable of growing beyond their losses, and ended up stuck in place and losing everything they had--because they just couldn't move on.
Last of us franchise was base on movies like no country for Old men and the road characters in those movies and videogames the last of us are just plot device to drive the central theme of the story the characters were not ment to be fan service like the typical fans associate with
Yeah its clear what they were going for, the similarities between Abby with Joel and Ellie were clear to see but i think the execution of it is what annoyed a lot of people. I am interested to see what happens with the final chapter because Ellies story seems finished but i think ND know after no more Joel then having just Abby would not go down well. The immunity and fireflies are the only two big plot points but i don’t know how they’ll weave a 3rd game around it but thats why they have writers and directors
Favorite part of this game is just the brutality of it all. Nobody dies a heroic death like in most games/movies. People you play with for hours and hours are just shot and killed like its nothing. There were multiple times I had to pause the game and just sit there to process what happened. No other game affected me like this one. It took me months to get over the ending of the game. Seriously one of the best, if not the best game ever made.
at least with Dead Space though I was never invested in the characters except for Isaac. I know the remake helped flesh them out a little bit more than the OG, but The Last of Us actually invested in the side characters and you come to like them.. and then 1 second and a headshot later they are gone. @@greytakerrev7147
I'm someone that loves to be emotional destroyed by a story, and naughty dog nailed it. Part 2 is definitely my favorite game of all time. Never have I felt such a rollercoaster of emotions. It was a wild ride, and I enjoyed every moment of it.
Yeah people came in expecting a happy ending for some reason, and then were furious when they didn’t get it. It’s definitely not perfect and I get why people didn’t like it, but I enjoyed it. I’m glad it didn’t end in a happy ending because I just don’t think that would’ve felt realistic. I think it would’ve felt much more hollow and lazy.
12:30 Abby’s friends having a bigger role in Joel’s death would be kind of against the point of some of Ellie’s arc. If they were all just as guilty as Abby it would go against the whole “us vs. them” thing, where Abby’s friends are guilty by association. They’re on “the enemy team,” which is enough to justify their deaths to Ellie, because they’re all collectively “the bad guys.” That’s part of what makes her actions as bad as they are, because on a surface level Abby’s friends really didn’t have much to do with Joel’s death, other than supporting their friend Abby (not implying they are innocent.) If Abby’s friends had all taken turns beating Joel with a golf club I think we’d lose a lot of the weight and discomfort that comes from Ellie murdering them all, because she’d be way more justified in doing so since they all played a bigger role in Joel’s death. This would minimize the themes about the destructive nature of revenge, especially the damage it does to those outside of or less involved with the triggering event. Abby’s friends may be guilty, but they’re not nearly as guilty as Abby, which is why the “revenge bad” theme works in the first place. It’s a minor part of the whole games message, but it’s still important.
They helped her for the same reason Dina and Jesse helped ellie. They knew her dad like they knew Joel and they would've been fine letting it go but they wanted to help bring closure to their friend
FINALLY BRO. I've been searching so long for someone that likes this game. It's my favorite game of all time and I was really hurt when I saw that the people didn't like it.
@@TheDanimal91there’s a lot who like it, videogamedunkey just to name one, arguable the most acclaimed reviewer on the platform. The people who like it just never made a massive internet bandwagon
I don’t think TLOU 2 is about revenge but more so about forgiveness. Joel and Ellie’s last canonical scene is her trying to forgive him. That’s the memory she has of him while she’s strangling Abby.
As the biggest TLOU2 defender, I think you made some really strong points both for and against. Some of the cons you pointed out are interesting for me to consider, especially the side characters being fairly dull. Great video matey x
Yeah I don't even really think it's debatable that they dropped the ball with a LOT of the side characters. This is one of my favourite games of all time, and I'll still admit that I couldn't give a fuck about a single one of Abby's companions beyond Owen. When Manny's dumb ass got plugged unceremoniously I literally chuckled. Ellie's companions are only marginally better, I think Dina's & Jesse's actors did a fantastic job with very underdeveloped roles, but it wasn't enough to make them very interesting. The character writing outside of Joel & Ellie in general feels off. Even Abby & Lev who they REALLY try to develop don't work particularly well and stand in STARK contrast to the nuance and wonderful character writing of Joel & Ellie. With that said this is a game of highs and lows IMO, and the emotional impact of some of the best moments outweighs almost all the flaws for me. This game genuinely affected me emotionally and I find the exploration of Ellie's grief and her forgiveness of Joel to be heartbreaking and beautiful.
I find the point about the side characters being dull interesting as well. But I wouldn’t say I agree with it completely. I think that if you were going to put any more stuff about these characters in the game it would have distracted from the main characters and the theme of the game. Also not a lot of side characters get that much of a coverage in most linear games. Maybe one or two but that’s about it. Open world games are different though. I’d say that the dullest out of the game was mainly on Abby’s side with Leah, Jordan, nick. Everyone else felt pretty rounded to me. For Isaac, since he was mentioned in the vid, you learn more about him as you’re going through notes posters on the walls. So if you’re intensely scavenging you actually get a pretty good idea of him both on Ellie’s and Abby’s sides.
My favorite line from TLOU1 that crops back up in TLOU2 is during her interaction with Sam. “…Being alone. I am scared of ending up alone.” And by the end of TLOU2…
I enjoyed Part 2 as well. However, I do think there’s more to the story than just being a condemnation of revenge. It’s an exploration of what revenge does to a person and how someone can come back after everything they’ve done and restore their humanity and peace of mind.
8:25 runners and other infected (though it may change throughout the stages) can be killed in any way a normal human can be killed aside from starvation or dehydration. It’s expanded on that some infected just drop after 2-4 months, going the typical route for Ophiocordyceps unilateralis (the real world type of cordyceps that thé game was based off of) by puppet-ing the host to an area and then growing from the body and releasing spores to further spread the infection. A lot of clickers (and specifically bloaters/shamblers) are people who were either weirdly genetically predisposed to survival in this situation or who were larger/stronger/more resilient. Infected do canonically eat humans/game animals etc (beginning of tlou 2, when Ellie and Dina run across the eaten Moose) . If you’re wondering about how they survive the runner stage/how they survive being infected before turning, the cordyceps fungus would eat you inside out for fuel, and once you have a severe enough deficit of what’s necessary to sustain the host/the fungi (and I assume the energy expended to upkeep and influence the hosts body) it’d just settle down on a wall. Same thing happens when the brain dies before the host turns. Think left behind when Ellie is searching for a Medkit and finds the body of the pharmacist in the knockoff american girl doll store. The pharmacist either turned and became a clicker (the likely route from what I remember of what their face looked like) and then after being locked in for 20 years couldn’t go on and just settled in the corner. More intact bodies surrounded by fungi probably killed themselves before they turned/died as a runner. OH! We can also see in the stalker stage many infected have concave stomachs and a very starved form. It’s possible that the reason stalkers become so strategic is because some hosts aren’t enough on their own to survive to the clicker stage, and so they have to hunt and be sure to catch their prey without expending too much energy wildly sprinting after anything that makes noise! The end of this sort of spiraled into theories I have but! Interesting question! ( it’s also possible they ate rats???)
It's the metal gear solid 2 situation all over again. People hated that they were made to play as Raiden, instead of snake. But years later MGS2 is now considered one of the strongest entries in the series.
The best of the series is MGS3 and 1 , and no, apples and oranges, Kojima is a GOAT druckman fired all the good creators and imprinted his sexual depravity in part 2 and the Series , so STFU
I overall really love this game, from it's dynamic and incredibly tense gameplay to it's amazing world building and beautiful visuals, to the best in class voice acting/facial capture and sound. However, I do think there's a lot of issues with the script, a ton of irrational behavior and contrivances that don't hold up to scrutiny and often feel mechanical in order to advance the story and reinforce the themes regardless if they make much sense. With that said, what I think this game NAILS, even more so than the first game, is the quiet moments. The slow exploration sections where you learn about the world's factions and conflicts. The long slow trek through Joel's house while Ellie grieves, taking the chance to go over some of his prized possessions and even smell his jacket. The musical section where Elie plays Dina the song Joel played for her, but stops because it's simply too painful to remember. The scene with Ellie & Dina in the basement smoking a joint, knowing that Joel will never get to see her happily in love. The flashbacks to a time where Ellie & Joel seem to really have embraced the father daughter dynamic and seem to really love each other, the absolutely gut wrenching flashback of Ellie finally beginning to forgive Joel, presumably, right before his horrific death. Ellie sitting in the water completely defeated after finally learning to forgive Abby the way she forgave Joel, and finally Ellie putting the guitar aka her last memory of Joel in the empty house where Dina and her lived, only to move on with nothing left to live for, yet somehow finally healed from her intense grief. These moments are so emotionally powerful and add so much to the overall narrative arc that the first game started, that I'm extremely happy this game exists, warts and all. With that said, I think the core revenge narrative particularly in regards to Abby's sections, are lacking anywhere near the same emotional heft and nuance. Perhaps there's just too much stacked against her, with her BRUTALLY killing our protagonist, and us already being so attached as an audience to Ellie & Joel. I think this is the challenge they were very brave for taking on, getting us to empathize and care for a character we desperately don't want to.. It's a great idea, but I don't think it was executed nearly as well as the Ellie & Joel arc, which is still absolutely the heart and soul of this franchise. For starters, Abby's "revenge" on Joel, feels unbelievably sadistic and cruel.. I understand it's the apocalypse, there's not much to live for, and he took her father away.. BUT.. Preparing for YEARS and YEARS, stalking, then brutally maming him slowly to death with a blunt object after he SAVES her, while never once throughout all those years stopping to consider why he killed her father in the first place... It's a little TOO much to ask us to sympathize with her after this IMO. Even Joel never displayed this level of sociopathic sadism, simply in the name of revenge. He killed ruthlessly and efficiently to protect who he loved or to survive. He didn't go on a fucking 20 year revenge quest to slowly torture/kill someone out of nothing but spite. At this point, Ellie's resulting sadism and bloodlust feels like a pretty justified response considering the absolute savagery with which Joel was killed. I understand the whole cycles of violence angle and how difficult it is to break... but I think Abby REALLY upped the ante & set the tone in terms of ruthless and inhumane brutality here. Abby's redemptive arc of saving a couple of kids who happen to be part of the tribe/group she's been ruthlessly slaughtering with her douchebag military buddies for years also feels like WAY too little, too late. Also Abby is generally even in her quiet and humane moments way less endearing, funny, charismatic and generally likeable than Joel or Ellie. Her fear of heights and her insecurity regarding Owen & his new relationship are clearly meant to make her relatable, but it's simply not enough IMO. I don't HATE Abby, she's cool to play as, and I actually think the actress did the absolute best she could given the material.. but it's a very tall order to make an audience buy into her as a protagonist, and for me at least they didn't quite pull it off. & TBH it even seems like they knew this, because they put the best gameplay segments, boss battles, set pieces, weapons etc.. in her sections lol. It feels slightly manipulative. PLUS, ALL of Abby's companions/friends are very underdeveloped and bland. Particularly people like Manny, who I couldn't have given less of a fuck about when he randomly got plugged by Tommy. Owen is by far the strongest character from Abby's sections, and even he isn't great. At least he is a little more interesting and conflicted. Ellie's side kicks also are generally lacking in depth or real character arcs, but at least Jesse & Dina are charming / charismatic enough to see why someone would like them in the first place. IMO there was a lot of overreach in the script of Part 2 that leads to a pretty inconsistent experience. Ultimately though, what it adds to Joel & Ellie's story and the emotional impact those sections leave are 100% worth the stuff that I didn't enjoy as much, and despite the flaws I consider it to be one of my favourite games of all time.
But like actually, this is incredibly reflective and well thought out, and I'm glad somebody can see all the work that went into this experience to make it different but just as impactful as the previous game
Just want to say you put this so well. I disagree with some parts personally, I didn’t like the game and absolutely do hate Abbey and sadly these parts where the game is lacking taint the whole overall experience for me too much, but you summed up what so many people have big issues with perfectly. I fully respect if people did like it and it landed emotionally for them, but it drives me nuts how many people act like it’s a masterpiece that can’t be criticized in any way, because even objectively from a writing perspective that’s just not true. I really wish Abbey’s character had been written with more care so it would’ve been an actually “morally grey” area emotionally for the player, it could’ve been incredibly interesting. But like you said, they let her go full on sadistic sociopath and there’s just... no way to make her actions “justified” after that, no matter how much backstory they want to put in there. By the end of it I wanted to kill her off so bad if for nothing else just to keep the rest of humanity safe, lol. So many of her key actions in the game are at best selfish and at worst cruel, and it doesn’t line up realistically with how personalities work if they want us to think she’s also somehow so caring and tender with Lev etc. You don’t just flip that behaviour on and off and whether they meant to or not, Abbey came across well beyond someone who’s simply doing what she can to survive while living in a horrible environment. Anyway, didn’t mean to rant but it’s so difficult to find people giving nuanced opinions on this game, lol. Enjoyed reading your take on it.
Very well put. Yes, there are some issues with the script but the positives massively outweigh them, but you could probably find fault with any story if you look hard enough. It doesn't however justify the amount of hatred aimed at this game.
A mature game that shows us how revenge leads to nothing more than revenge, diplomacy is the best answer to conflict, and how life isn't black and white, there are no heroes and villains. Joel himself said in the first game: "We did what we had to survive" and "I've been in both sides". This story has no winners, everyone loses, and everyone suffers lasting consequences. Underrated story-telling.
i will agree the story telling was good and quite bold but i wish we got an actually good story and ending. i respect this game but i cant say i like it much
@@papalevan Abby’s dad was murdered, all her friends were murdered, and then her former allies were turned against her. She showed Ellie mercy for a second time, and was then almost drowned by her during a fight she was emotionally blackmailed to partake in. I think by the end, Abby realised there were no winners. She lost everything except for Lev. Ellie still has an entire community to support her. Ellie only has herself to blame for losing Dina. They both faced the repercussions of their actions (and will hopefully realise that in part 3 and become better people because of it).
Finally, a youtuber echoing my feelings and impressions of the game. A lot of the YT community succumbed to the hate zeitgeist that followed the leaks because they have infantile understanding of storytelling.
Nope they understood, also from a narrative point of view it took a very weird method to tell the story pacing wise, it would have been better from a pacing standpoint to do their parts in order
@@Z-Mikes00I don’t doubt there are people who gave it a chance and didn’t like it, which is fine. But you can’t deny the impact the leaks and the hatetuber reactions to the leaks had on it. I genuinely believe that if the leaks hadn’t happened the reaction would have been different. Still fairly divisive, but not a vitriolic.
I get it… people wanted another story with Joel and Ellie going on another adventure but unfortunately this isn’t Uncharted. The Last of Us shows that there are real consequences to your actions.
Don't worry, there's plenty of people who like the game. Unfortunately, it's the haters and trolls that have the loudest voices drowning out the fans and even those with well thought out criticism.
@@MrVexedviper well the majority definitely dont like it, its unfair of u to just call them trolls when the majority do not like this game for very valid reasons
The Last Of Us part 1 & 2 are really one story. Some people just like the first part, but i find both to be fantastic games. They could have pandered to the audience, made a comfort fiction Joel and Ellie adventure, but instead created something much more interesting. This is what story telling is all about. Thank you to Naughty dog for creating a very grim and adult story, in a world filled with nothing but comfort fiction, it was truly refreshing for those of us who enjoy these darker and more thought provoking tales.
I love that ND chose to go for a much bolder dive into Hatred and Revenge and really make the story interesting. Because there is nothing 'comforting' in TLOU world, it's a very dark time in humanity and the game reflects it. A lot of the music and art I consume is quite frankly is quite dark and misundertood ALL THE TIME. Some people have not made peace with their inner demons and only want the happy times in life. I love both the light and dark, but I frequently dive into the darker subjects much more often.
Part 2 is basically Depression simulator the game. There is no hope. Everything is black. Everyone is broken. If you’re a nihilist, you’ll LOVE this game😂
I liked it, too. Of course it stresses me out and I had to take several days of a break when that Ellie boss fight at the theatre broke out, but overall it was a marvelous experience to go through all the rage and sadness with both Ellie and Abby.
They should rewrite Jesse in the show to be a Step Son to Tommy. I just think it would make him more central to the group and the mission of finding Joels killers once Tommy puts his neck on the line.
This game is hated because the first game was a major film. The second game was a small independent film based on the theme of revenge. Most people don't like independent films. This is worse because most people connected with Joel and Ellie. They connected so strongly they forgot this world is cruel and no one is special. Joel isn't special, he's just special to YOU(the fans) because you followed their story. Proof? Follow the story of Henry and Sam from their beginning to meeting Joel and Ellie and you wouldn't care that much about Joel and Ellie. You'd be sad at the ending of Henry and Sam. More proof? What if the last of us was a story about a girl looking for revenge for her Dr. Dad dying and she tracked down his killer. Do this without knowing anything about Joel and Ellie. You wouldn't care. Joel is only important because you watched his journey, but it doesn't stop the rules of this world. My love of independent films makes me appreciate The Last of Us 2. It's truly a masterpiece on the level of Park Chan Wook's Revenge trilogy (Sympathy for Mr Vengeance, Oldboy, Lady Vengeance).
No, why I hate the game was it takes away my choice in the game....twice. Its fine that they arent special. But I didnt get to kill Abbey OR Ellie. I WANTED TO KILL ABBEY. I dont feel bad for her. and it should have been up to me the player to make that decision, Just like it was up to the player to kill the surgeon at the end of TLOU.
@@Tyrant372 then you miss the entire point behind the theme of revenge being bad. The point of the game was for BOTH girls to come to an understanding that revenge isn’t worth it.
@@jonhinged I understand the point. The point just isn't valid for all people. Especially in the way they presented it in the game. They forced Ellie to abandon her happyish ending to go at it a 2nd time....and then refuse to give the player the option to make that choice.
It is not fair at all to be little the involvement Abby's friends had in the death of Joel. They in fact, are the ones who made it possible. Not only did they help her make her way across the country but even if she had managed to do that on her own they quite LITERALLY held down Tommy and Ellie AND Joel so Abby could do the killing. Without her crew for support it would have been Abby vs 3 people. She would have stood no chance. Her crew are JUST as responsible for Joels death. Factually
I loved this game from release, but I'm seeing a trend where some people who absolutely hated it at release are starting to warm up to it. I think after the rage of Joel's death wore off, some people were able to respect what the story was trying to convey.
I'm the same as you, but there was never denying the story did have some writing and pacing issues, even if we understand fully what they were trying to convey. Most importantly, about that rage to Joel dying, something I'll hand to those haters is that SOME of them were smart enough to say the issue wasn't him simply dying, but WHEN he died, and honestly I have to agree on that one. The fact that we had trailers with Joel alive past that point says him dying that early was a last minute change, and no, I don't believe that conspiracy theory that those trailer scenes were just for fooling us.
As someone who loved the game to death early on when it came out only to see hate everywhere, I knew that with time there will be much more positive views about the game. Over the last couple of years, 90 percent of the videos related to the game is overwhelmingly positive. Many hating it won't stop it from going down as one of the most iconic video games of all time.
The fact the praise came years later after the discourse was old and gone says alot about the defense of the game. It should've been able to stand up when the game came out and the critisms were being made. Being the last person in the debate hall after everyone's left and the discussions has closed doesn't make you right.
@@AkramHossain-og8lj yeah and so did the transformers movies. They're still garbage. And let's be fair main stream critics haven't exactly been the most unbiased objective people the last decade.
@@justadude3789 what about the transformers movies? All I have seen is critics and fans calling the Transformers movies substandard. That is a weak comparison to the product of arguable one of the greatest video game developers of modern time. Yes critics aren't unbiased but their opinions and assessment are more coherent to how the geneeal public appreciates this
This is the first time i see someone making a common title "Why it's great", but not going for words like "Masterpiece", "Thrilling", "Amazing" on preview, but instead "I like it" 😄
Ellies worst fear is being alone and she was left with nothing in the end… Her hatred towards Joel… its all a mirror image of what Joel did in the first game and it just further elaborates on what you will do for the ones you love. For better or worse.
I was baffled by all the hate of The Last Of Us 2. I thought it was frigging great. I feel like many missed the point/meaning of the story. It's not just "revenge is bad." There is a deeper story. I love it. All the groundwork was laid out in The Last Of Us. It is a great overarching story.
I find that a lot of people don't understand why someone could dislike part 2 despite understanding what the game was trying to do and say. As a matter of fact, most people who praise part 2 tend to incorrectly represent why someone could not like it
When I read some opinions on the internet it feels like I played a completely different game. I love Part 1 and especially Part 2, I think it’s a perfect sequel
It's funny how The Last Of Us 2 gets much more hate than it deserves, and all it really comes down to is that people were upset that Joel died and refused to pay attention or be invested in any of the game afterwards.
Some yes, my experience in discussions about it is that some people saying that about Joel death, when pressed on the matter all comes up to Abby big arms and how Gay and “woke” the game is or whatever that means. I did love the game and I still play some encounters sometimes (thank you ND for the option).
The problem is that most people who have negative things to say are basement dwelling trolls who keep harping on about woke agendas and the message. They've probably never even played the game.
I don't have the ability to critique a game or a movie so intelligently. I just know how something makes me feel. I agree with most that the story of the first game is better............arguably the best story that's ever been in a video game.............but Part II was AMAZING to me. No other game has ever made me confront the emotions that this game has. The game is a stroke of genius and I hope that Druckmann isn't discouraged from some of the criticisms.
Personally, I respect this game, I don't love it, it's not the game I wanted, but I respect it. Would I love to have something different? Probably. But the biggest thing that really breaks my heart is how the fanbase became toxically divided, tbh my experience with the fanbase of this especially when part 2 rises, is always never good. Esp now with the TV Show and all the edits coming along trending, it's kinda hard to talk about part 2 without getting a negative feedback, or saying your dumb, or how close minded you are. and to me thats just unfortunate how divided we are now. Personally my headcanon is "The Closer's Look's" version of this story. but hey again I respect TLOU2, alot of times this game has impacted me in alot of ways, and changed my perspective. But it's not the game I was expecting or love, but i respect it.
based. i hate the games ending and think so many things didnt work. but really looking at this game its clear there was good intent and a vision that i think is quite interesting and cool. i may not particularly like this game but i respect the living shit out of it. ill take something bold and unsafe than something bland and safe. even if it doesnt work.
i mean. theres legit reasons to dislike this game cringe dialogue and poor romance execution (which leaves me shocked at how good bill and frank was in the show) poor handling of joel pacing issues garbage ending bland cardboard or just bad side characters (dina and levs sister were alright tho) its misery porn the constant shoving in our face to sympathize with abby (a common complaint that im mixed on tho) lack luster story (personally i think a lot worked and alot didnt) tommy was done dirty and the last of us awards 2020 not acting like hater of this game cant get ridiculous and stupid but then again so can alot of its defenders
I'm not really into the gameplay type of TLOU as much as others but the animation blending in combat was probably the first thing I noticed as a real highlight XD. I ultimately enjoyed the story, mostly because of the composition I found fascinating and really well done - if not easily digestible. Its a deeper delve into a well trodden genre and IMO worked pretty well in a video game. To me up there with the better games over the last few years.
I’ve seen people make videos of hours long dissecting the story of this game, whether for good or bad. And for me that just says how special it is.. like how many games can people sit and pour their heart out about for over an hour, not many. But even the haters can speak at lengths about this game. Greatness doesn’t always have to be pleasant, some things can be painfully great.
@@thesavagetaxman846 it’s been 3 years lmao. Whether you liked the first game or not, if the second was bad, you wouldn’t be able to speak about it for long periods. Bad media is media that Is forgettable, so if the last of us 2 left enough in you to speak for a long time about it, that makes it good media whether you felt good after it or not. And you say it was depressing, buddy a story being depressing doesn’t mean it’s bad 😂 there’s something called a sad story. Or is it only happy stories that are good? This is why we say TLOU2 haters can’t handle reality, reality sometimes is “depressing”.
@@marxhonore9414 I didn't say the second game was "depressing", I said it was "depressing" how bad it is. The relationship between Joel and Ellie is what made the first game so brilliant, but Joel doesn't even get 5 minutes of gameplay in part 2 before he's killed off. At least give him some relevance to the story other than being a quick and easy revenge plot device. It wasn't "bold or brave" of the writers to instantly kill him off, it was lazy. The characters they replace Joel with are boring and forgettable. The game fails on a major level to get the players to relate and sympathize with characters. Characters like Jesse, Manny, Nora, ect. just get killed off and are never spoken about again. Not just this, the pacing of the story is all over the place - its a mess. Ellie's decisions in the game make absolutely no sense, she brutally murders hundreds and hundreds of people (most who had nothing or little to do with Joel's death) yet when she reaches Abby she suddenly decides "revenge is bad" after seeing a flashback of Joel. Why in the f*** would a flashback of Joel (a ruthless survivor) make her spare Abby? All of this is legitimate criticism of the game, but I guess us "haters cAnT hAnDlE rEaLiTy". Christ give me a break.
@@thesavagetaxman846 name one person Ellie murdered cold bloodedly.. which means she murdered the person for no reason whatsoever. The person was neither intended to kill her or preventing her from her goal. And you said the first game was brilliant because of Joel’s and Ellie’s relationship, and why exactly do you want the second game to be the same as the first? 😂 like I can’t make this up… you want a sequel to be so freaking basic, same thing that you had before within your comfort zone. It’s not even a matter of not handling reality, it’s about not thinking outside the box. But y’all just want the same old that you’re used to, Joel and Ellie skipping around a garden for the second game in a row. I’ve said this before, I think there are flaws in the story just like literally any other story in any game that you would call good, but it’s basically Joel’s death that makes y’all focus more on “flaws” for TLOU2 and act like that’s the reason you call it bad, when in reality if Joel was alive, you won’t be complaining about these things such as “forgettable characters”, you would just be happy to have your daddy Joel around 😂. One more thing, who exactly was Manny’s and the others death supposed to be mentioned to? Who was Tess’ death mentioned to in part 1? Who was Sam and Henry’s death mentioned to? Even Sarah was closed off about for most of part one, but y’all won’t complain about any of this from part 1, simply because it’s not Part 2 and has your daddy Joel in it.
@@marxhonore9414 Ellie literally fought her way through an entire city killing Abby's friends and allies but only had second thoughts after reaching Abby. Ellie's change of heart is completely unjustified and makes no sense from a narrative point of view. No one is complaining about Joel dying, its how poorly his death was handled. They could've done so much more with his character. The characters were so mediocre and have no impact when they die its laughable. For example, Jesse and Manny get domed in the face and the characters barely react to their deaths and don't talk about them afterwords. Its like the writers forgot about them. The player is left feeling nonchalant and unaffected by their deaths. The game is so obvious and desperate in its attempts to get us to sympathize with Abby but flops spectacularly. She isn't relatable or likable at all. Its quite hilarious actually - the players are actively routing against Abby and get themselves killed on purpose just to watch her die. The structure of the story doesn't do her any favors either as they force us to play as her for 15 hours after she beats Joel to death. In the first game, all the characters are memorable and their deaths hit home. Even after their death Ellie brings them up with Joel who at first refuses to acknowledge them but starts opening up as the story progresses. Moreover, Bill who only appears for one chapter, is more noteworthy than the main characters in part 2 lmao. Just goes to show how bad the characters are.
It’s so refreshing to finally be finding gamers who love this game. Who sees what it was doing. It’s by no means perfect but man.. it’s so good. Thank you for this.
That's completely false. No one had an issue with Joel dying, it's the fact that he only had like 5 minutes of screen time and played no role in the story other than being a plot device. His death was used for shock value. They could've done so much more with Joel but utterly wasted his character. The worst part is the characters they replaced him with were bland, unrelatable and downright unlikeable. The first game was so successful because of Joel and Ellie's relationship. Entirely removing Joel from the story was a dumb decision. It's no surprise why so many fans trash on the story, it's written so poorly.
@@thesavagetaxman846 I pretty much disagree with everything you said. Yes Joel’s Death is done for shock value but I never got this as a bad thing. Pretty much every death scene has some level of shock level which is what makes them impactful. With how graphic and gruesome Joel’s Death is the shock value isn’t cheap. And because we have an attachment to that character killing him off is a brilliant way to ignite a revenge story. Yes Joel and Ellie’s relationship is what defined the first game. But this isn’t the first game. The story needs to progress beyond that. The consequence of Joel’s Decision at the end of that game needs to affect these two characters and it does in a bittersweet way as it should for such a morally ambiguous choice. This game is defined by the absence of that relationship yet everything Ellie does it because of the relationship they had. The game is still about them but in a different way.
@@thesavagetaxman846 Joel had hours of screen time in Part II. What are you talking about? Also tell me what version of a second game WOULDN'T involve Joel's death?? That is literally the only way to tell Ellie's story.
@@cogd1599 Joel had like two appearances before they killed him off. While the flashbacks of Joel and Ellie were the best part of the game, at that point Joel is already dead so it doesn't serve a purpose. At no point did i say I was upset at Joel dying. I said he deserved to be more involved in the story rather than being killed off straight away. This would have been a far better story:Joel had survived the Abby encounter but Dina instead gets killed in the crossfire. Abby is chased away by Jackson defenders. Ellie goes on the revenge quest and Joel follows refusing to let her go alone. Ellie still hates Joel and blames him for getting dina killed but begrudgingly agrees to let him tag along. Joel who has now become more softened by his time in Jackson just wants ellie to come home. He knows from his past as a survivor that revenge is a fool's game. Ellie and Joel's relationship begins to heal and they start bonding again. Joel tries convincing Ellie to move on from Abby. After Ellie unknowingly kills pregnant Mel, this is what causes Ellie to give up on revenge. She finally agrees with Joel to come home. As they are leaving, Abby finds them and kills Joel. Ellie is once again filled with hatred and hunts Abby down leading to the final fight at the end of the game on the beach. Right before ellie kills Abby, she looks over at Lev and is reminded of her and Joel. Ellie thinks back on Joel and THEN decides to spare Abby's life. This way Ellie's decision to spare Abby would actually make sense. If season 2 of the TV show doesn't rewrite the plot then it's going to be another major disappointment.
@@thesavagetaxman846 I'll give you props, that's not a bad alternative storyline - I actually like it. However, the way the story was actually enacted in the game does something that most people don't realize. It's about loss and recovery. If you lose Joel near the end of the game, you don't have time to make peace with him being gone. The player is on the same emotional journey as Ellie. The manner in which they delivered the flashbacks throughout the story provides a more cathartic ending for the revenge narrative. BUT, I wouldn't mind the changes you mentioned for the show, because that would probably work better in that medium.
Both games are amazing. Such a deep, bold story with very well developed characters and a complex, original view on the the good old “vengeance crusade.” People who hate it just can’t take a beloved character being killed in a brutal way. Even though he himself was brutal and killed innocents several times throughout his life.
I don't mind that Joel was killed. I mind that he decided to act completely out of character and give his identity away to someone he's never met. It's lazy writing and you know it
I absolutely love both games. I didn't feel any dislike for the second game at all. Yea it sucks to see Joel get beat to death but didn't make me dislike the story. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as am i but my recommendation is that if you hated the story of tlou2 try replaying the game and paying better attention to it as a whole. I play through these games at least once a year usually more but approaching my 10th + playthrough i couldn't get through the games without crying like a little girl. This is the best story ever told in a video game if u ask me. I really enjoyed the video well done and thanks for your time and work on it.
It's weird. As much as I love this game, I think a lot of stuff relies too heavily on notes you read along your adventures. I normally don't read a lot of these but in this case I did. And so for me when I finally met Isaac I actually found it really interesting because I had read so much about him from all the notes during my playthrough as Ellie. That along with the general environmental storytelling really fleshes things out a bit. So I think a lot of people who just sort of sprint through the game will have a different experience. I think thats contributes to a discrepancy of how people experience the game. Same can be said for Ellies journal. Her journal adds a lot of context to how she is feeling.
I'm a firm believer that the story for this game is garbage. But, I will agree, the gameplay is actually good, it should be on par with other games and it was. But with this, it gives us a unwanted and unneeded story. I mean, of course Joel was going to have to pay for his actions and we would see Ellie try and stop that or get revenge, but this game executed that unfairly and horribly. With literal character assassination, changing Joel's character for the simple reason of wanting to kill him so we could progress Ellie. And, characters that barely have any backstory, but they expect us to care about them. Like Dina, for instance. We know nothing about Dina, but they expect us to like her because she's Ellie's "partner", blah blah. And Jessie, who was actually a bit of a cool character, but they threw him away like nothing the moment Abby confronted Ellie in the theater. And onto Abby, why the hell would they let us play as Abby to begin with? The story is about Ellie, and by introducing a new character, who by the way, killed everyone's favorite character and the focal point of the entire story. Yes, everyone can understand Abby's POV, but also understand Joel's, as he made a human decision to save his surrogate daughter. It's a human decision, morally. Everyone would make that same decision. Joel had to kill Abby's father, or else he wouldn't of been able to save Ellie. They shouldn't of made this game if they weren't going to make it right.
Their attempts to make you sympathize with or “understand” Abbey are so horribly written too-they try to make her a mirror to Joel, but everything Joel did, he did to protect Ellie. That’s what makes all those potential moral questions at the end of the first game so incredible too. Meanwhile Abbey literally plans a brutal murder JUST for the sake of revenge and then they ask us to pwease understand her poor feewings. There is no genuine build up or character driven storytelling in the second game, only the writers constantly telling the audience how we SHOULD feel about something-or that we’re dumb for not feeling something-and it was incredibly frustrating to sit through. No gameplay could make up for that in what’s supposed to be a story driven game. :/
I love the fact you are making a review of a game that was released in 2020, the gameplay section of the review was absolutely immaculate, and perfectly encapsulated, however, you made a incorrect statement, Abby’s friends were not just there while Abby did her thing, who were the guys who pinned tommy up, and who was the girl who knocked him unconscious who pinned Ellie (his saviour) to the ground and eventually knocked her unconscious, who were the two that pinned Joel to the wall and who was the girl who tourniquets his leg so he can die a slow and painful death? Everything about this video is so perfectly worded, but that is just simply false
This game is a masterpiece. It has flaws like everything, but there are so many many things that are done brilliantly. When you look back and realize all the emotions it made you feel, it shows video games are a medium like no other for storytelling. Truely a unique experience.
i made a rant video immideately after i finished the story becaus i didnt understand the ending but after playing it a few times after i realized that the game is about humanity and the lengths some humans will go to after they lose everything important to them
4:00 there's a gameplay reason for not immediately picking everything up too. sometimes before picking something up you'll want to craft an item. especially on harder difficulties when you want to maximise resources
My favourite dialogue reference from the 1st to 2nd game is when ellie is walking Joel out of the university, she says "If I get you out of this, you are so singing for me."
Awesome video. I personally loved TLOU2 and in some ways felt more connected to Abby's story than I ever did to Joel/Ellie's - which isn't to say both aren't brilliant. I guess, while I don't like the way some people talk about the plot (Joel dead, Abby bad = bad game, bad plot) I enjoy that its allowing for nuanced dialogue about plot in video games that we wouldn't have been having say 15 years ago. When I first played the Ellie/Abby fight in the theatre, I was immediately struck with how /gross/ it felt, to hunt Ellie like she was an infected. But, to me, that was one of the greatest parts of this game. Ellie's vendetta had completely robbed her of her humanity, on a similar level to the infected - there is a person underneath the fungus and infected, but they are being completely driven and controlled by something foreign and brutal - which mirrors Ellie in the situation. I also think that Lev being the only thing that stopped Abby killing Dina after learning she was pregnant is extremely significant not just thematically in this game and the first game, but going forward in the series. There are so many lessons to be learned from children (Joel from Ellie, Abby from Lev and Yara, and Ellie from killing the pregnant Mel - which had way more of an impact than any of her brutal murders up until that point), that I can see the series continuing to explore this theme of when that childlike innocence and purity becomes corrupted, and how long it can survive in such a brutal world, if at all. I would also imagine that the key to possibly finding a cure to the infection could somehow be linked to children. This comment wasn't supposed to be this long, I swear! I could talk about this game forever, and this video is an awesome representation of so many things people who couldn't move on from the intro missed out on. Keep it up man!
Very true, I personally love the addition of Lev and Yara. While some people may think that the Scars as antagonists are bland/unneeded I think they gave Abby a new view on morals. Especially on the Scars' religious beliefs as Abby had previously only skimmed the texts of their people. It was nice to see Lev's perspective on fear and the aforementioned morality of killing a pregnant woman. Not to mention his loyalty and love for his mother, to endanger himself just to see her again and to hopefully change her mind even if Yara said she was beyond helping. Abby says that Lev is almost never wrong and he seems to be the voice of reason in their friendship, even if he's younger, I like how Abby still treats his opinions with respect.
tlou2 is the best video game story ever told. if u hated it cause joel died the way he did than you’re clearly influenced by emotion in ur reviews. if u hated it as a story than u clearly didn’t understand it
I think this is a good take. I would just add one thing into the discussion about the theme of revenge. You say that the game is conveying not just that it is morally wrong, but that it makes things worse; it makes other bad things happen. The cyclical nature of violence, for sure, is part of the message: the Seraphites and WLF; the fact that Ellie knows if she kills Abby, then there is the chance Lev will come for her just as Abby did Joel and she did Abby. However, I think the other point that the game is making is that revanchism destroys identity and the the relational ties that define and create it. Abby basically does not have an identity until revenge is no longer part of her life. She is so young when she loses her father and she drifts from the Firelies to the WLF. She is looking for 'a cause', an identity, something to define her. She is a 'joiner', not someone with her own sense of self beyond the idea of eye for an eye violence (which is what the WLF are about, they are not idealists like the Fireflies, and one of the reasons why she fits right into them: it is a group whose raison d'etre validate and enable her warped sense of justice). You see it in her physical transformation- her need for revenge literally shapes, moulds, and grows her. However, it also destroys her relationship with Owen as she pushes him away every time he gets close to her because killing Joel comes first. It is not until revenge is no longer part of her life that the scales fall from her eyes and she eventually can break free and forge her own identity. In part, this is leaving the violence of the WLF behind (she goes from having idealism in the Fireflies to hate in the WLF and telling Owen she would go in the opposite direction if she were to find out where they are and then back again) and part of that is her relationship with Lev (i.e.- relationality, love, caring about people and them caring about you). Ultimately, she had to realise that revenge did not make her life better; it stopped her being a real person with human ties and identity. With Ellie, by contrast, rather than revenge stopping her developing these things, it causes her to lose them. Compare Abby's and Ellie's arcs by the the way that revenge shapes their bodies- it sculpts Abby but scars and damages Ellie (Nora), it makes her vomit (Mel). Contrast the approach to relationality- it prevents Abby making things work with Owen but Ellie is scared to lose Dina, is putting her her first by deciding to return to Jackson at the end of day 3 just as Abby arrives, only to then lose it all and fuck it up because she is traumatised and obsessed. Just as Abby couldn't form an identity and independent sense of meaning and purpose because of revenge, Ellie is angry at Joel for taking away her identity, meaning, and purpose but comes to realise that she had one. She was Joel's purpose. She meant something to Dina and JJ. She already had relationality and worth and purpose and meaning- all of those things she felt she didn't have and was looking for. That image of Joel she sees before she lets Abby go is not just about the cycle of violence, but realising she already had what was important and has now lost it all and killing Abby won't bring any of it back. It wasn't revenge that helped Abby grow. She came to realise that it held her back from being a better (and her own) person. Ellie had to lose everything to find that she already had everything she needed. However, the lesson for both is the same- the self is relational and we are defined by love and our relationships and bonds of kith and kin with others. Violence, hatred, and revenge give the illusion of purpose and meaning but are, in fact, parasites that rob us of those things.
I don't like the story and would have preferred a flat out different one, but this is a totally fair review. I like how you say you like the game but acknowledge its flaws. Despite me liking it less than you, I do love that after Joels death Ellie pays her respects to him by playing guitar and the flashbacks. Joels theme being future days is my favorite thing in the game.
FFS u guys have to play it on GROUNDED mode to truly appreciate how realistic the A.I. is. All other modes feel like a basic ass ubisoft type game by comparison. Its just not scary when u have indicators showing u the direction ur about to be seen from and still giving u ample time to hide. on grounded difficulty they spot u instantly just like in real life
its why ppl loved R6vegas cos it was so realistic, u had to have split second reactions or even the npcs in story mode will one shot u in a millisecond
I said this in a short of yt, my only problem with the game, is that we should have started playing as Abby, with her friends being hunted, and after the reveal of the killer ( Ellie), we switch to the day where Joel's killed. This is simplified comment but i guess you can imagine :)
No. They destroyed two beloved characters and made them unlikeable in favor of new woke characters. The story was a boring teen drama with cringe dialogue. I for one did not wait 7 long years with pure excitement for this, after the writer promised they’d do right by us.
@@niallhughes2697 They're still beloved characters, for me even moreso after Part 2, they're just not heroes and they never were. They didn't "destroy" them "in favor" of "woke" characters, whatever that means. You waited 7 years for a sequel to the last of us. You got a sequel to the last of us. No one promised you you'd like it.
Yes, the flashbacks to Joel and Ellie are by far the best part of the game, and that's exactly why it's a terrible sequel. It kills off the best part of the first game without ever introducing anyone or anything as good as the first game.
It's a perfect example of how in the real world your perspective on things isn't exactly how things are . We like to think of things usually as being one thing or the other, ie: group A are the good guys and group B are the bad guys. TLOU2 shows that it is not nearly that simple and in the grand scheme of things there are no good or bad guys. Everyone just tries to survive the best they can and take care of the people they care about. Living in a world like the world of TLOU2 all anyone can really do is deal with situations one at a time as they happen. Unless you know someone's past and what motivates them to do what they do it's difficult or impossible to 100% know for certain that any individual is actually the bad guy.
love part 2 of the last of us. only complain i have is that we cant change skins to ellie and abby like we could with joel and ellie in the ps5 version of part 1
As far as I’m concerned last of us part 2 is every bit the masterpiece the first game was, the story was the best part, to me it’s a “controversy” over nothing.
I like the sniper set piece because it straight up uses the games regular mechanics just like scaling tall necks in the horizon series. These cinematic encounters are a bit more harder to design when having to restrict the set piece up around the games set functions. I think that Abby's friends are the most guilty because due to the circumstances they had risked their lives serving as Abby's squad to even reach joel. If they were just giving up their rank and or status, they really didn't commit so much to the cause but they knowingly risked their lives for this cause very likely meaning were they ended up a lone survivor that he or she would commit the act. Abby's friends are just sacrificing too much not to guess they all had murderous intent against joel and everyone at his camp - once again - were the worst winning hard was delt to the group.
"Right and wrong are not what separate us and our enemies. It's our different standpoints, our perspectives that separate us. Both sides blame one another. There's no good or bad side. Just two sides holding different views." - Squall Leonhart
The ending totally should've been a players choice kind of thing, I feel like it would've made the ending a little more effective. Otherwise, I actually really loved this game
@Akihiko Sanada No, not giving the players a choice in the end just shows how piss poor their narrative is and how weakly written the new characters are. If they truly did their job as writers, we would have been able to simpathize with Abby and not kill her. The new characters are at a disadvantage because they only appear in this game, so they need to be well written and likable. Unlike Ellies flashbacks, Abbys does nothing to fleshout her entire squad of characters. After all, half of the new ones only show up in cutscenes and die in cutscenes. The ones that are given time just aren't interesting or likable, for that matter. They should have just scapped Abbys useless flashbacks and just show her squad after the events of the hospital as adolescents and how they eventually found the WLF. The game was too abitious for their own good. It took 2 lousey writers 8 years to come up with this amateur hack story. It's beyond laughably bad. The only saving grace is its level design, animations, and gameplay.
@Akihiko Sanada it's not feelings, it's pointing out actual problems the game has. The story is the weakest part of the game. There's no deying that. Otherwise, the games story would have been universally praised on both sides instead of its animations and accessibility features.
I don't get why ellie let abby go just because of a joel flashback during drowning abby, killing everyone else but abby who bit her finger off, it just feels stupid, it just happens so abruptly,there is no build up, joel got what's coming for him i get it but the way they try to make us empathetic towards abby is just manipulative, not to mention the false ad where they make it look like it's going to be another joel and ellie adventure
I hate this argument, killing Abby wasn't going to help Ellie accept Joel's death. You can see the sorrow on her face as she is drowning Abby. At that point, she realizes that she will never get the chance to repair her relationship with Joel and that is the real reason for her obsession with revenge. The flashback reminds her that Joel loved her and wanted her to be happy. At the very end of the game, we see that she has accepted Joel's death and leaves to find Dina, likely to try and repair the only other relationship that matters to her.
@@joshz2491 yeah for a game trying to be realistic, that part was just straight out of some generic anime plot, an adrenaline filled human does not act like that
I'll agree, the marketing for this game was downright criminal, they had joel in a scene in the trailers at a point in the game where he had been dead for several hours.
Aaaand just like that this channel will never stop being flooded with comments from people who still mourn death of their video game daddy. Which is pretty meta - they go through giref longer than Ellie did.
im still sort of astounded by the way people didn't foresee Joel's actions having consequences and act like he was a perfect paragon who never did anything even questionable lmao. I like your explanations of things that are sane and reasonable considering the Gamer Dudebros reactions to the game (before it even came out) getting petty and stupid at record speed.
Motherfuckas should genuinely play Lisa: The Painful. That's a look into what TLOU1 could have been, if the game pulled ZERO punches about Joel's character and actions. Imagine the reactions from gamer dudebros after playing THAT: "HOW DARE THIS GAME TRY TO SAY BRAD IS THE BAD GUY, HE'S JUST A WHOLESOME 10/10 DADDY DOING EVERYTHING HE NEEDS TO PROTECT HIS SURROGATE DAUGHTER, HE'S DA GOOD GUY!!!!!"
![What Makes A Man? A Study of Joel in The Last of Us Part 2 [cinematic discussion]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8tPWmSwuJXU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Lethal Company Music Video 🎵 "Follow The Orders" [VERSION A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeooZB4Z7RA/mqdefault.jpg)
Something that's rarely mentioned is how they handled Ellie's PTSD from not being able to save Joel and as a consequence, witnessing his brutal murder. I suffer from an acute PTSD, and when that hellish vision occured when Ellie was in the barn with the lambs I nearly threw my controller across the room. It's such an accurate depiction of the terror. They nailed it. I've had the same thing happen, from doing CPR on someone who was beyond help and died. Sometimes I wake up in the morning and lay my hands on my own chest and it feels cold like his did and Slam. I hear the screams, I see his blue lips and his body convulsing, I hear the death rattle and feel his cold chest. They depicted the horror accurately for sure.
I connected with it, though. Never felt like my pain was represented in such an accurate way in media before. A surreal but beautiful form of art.
same here. trauma is rarely well depicted but im glad my favorite game franchise did it well. the terror never leaves you
@@superdupergi0 they had to humanise her somehow after what we just saw her do 😬
If you wouldn’t mind me asking, what happened before this tragic accident that caused the person to die?
@@derrickmartin9296 I would like to know as well.
@@Ryan-fk5hb I am sorry that you had to go through that.
I think The Last of Us at its core is a game about humanity. I think both the first game and a second game are examining different facets of what it means to be a flawed human being, which we all are, and they’re simply examining different sides of what makes us human.
exactly, and humanity involves the good and the bad, and im pretty sure people did not want to see the bad, especially in such beloved characters. somehow it was an expectation for them to be perfect heroes in a broken world, which isnt realistic
Exactly this
@Aaron Bissonnette well said, look at shows like the Walking Dead, Rick, and the groups are presented as the "good" guys, but have done some real shitty stuff. At the end of the day, Joel was a killer too, Live by the sword die by the sword.
After all, it’s called The Last of Us. The last of humanity.
I think in the show podcast elaborate even more it's about love and how dangerous it is in certain circumstances despite being see as a positive feeling
I absolutely agree that the flashbacks are the highlight of the story and game. Seeing Joel & Ellie let their guards down and be so comfortable and happy with each other makes the tragedy of their fate so much more painful
The last of us, part 2 felt really out of order to me. I think the TLOUP2 would have flowed better if they took out the flashbacks and just put more of ellie and Joel's relationship in the beginning of the game and built up to joel death, instead of doing a 4 to 5 year time skip between the end of the first and beginning of the second game.
@@jr1364 While I do think that also would have worked, I do really think that the way they did it creates a very different and interesting exploration of grief. Us knowing that Joel is gone and where his story ends, makes those flashbacks of happiness or at least acceptance and love so much more tragic IMO. I don't think the non linear order of events was by any means arbitrary, and I do think it works. I have a ton of issues with this game's story, as I mention in my other comment if you want to check that out, but I actually quite like how they paced and introduced the flashbacks.
@@jr1364I think the point of killing Joel so suddenly and at the beginning and then showing his history was to express the idea that the impulsive decision to suddenly kill someone can happen in an instant, but you’re robbing that person of everything they ever were, or could be.
- there’s so many things Joel was to Ellie, and so many places his life could’ve gone but he was suddenly killed in a heartbeat and all of that was interrupted
- it’s meant to make you feel the tragedy of that loss and have it wash over you knowing that his whole history with Ellie is for naught because someone else suddenly took his life
This just takes the cake though - people who love this crappy sequel claiming that the flashbacks are the best part?
Which is hugely ironic because 95% is the exact opposite of that and what the fans wanted.
Is it possible that the reason for this is because these are the parts in the game where players got what they actually wanted?
One thing I'd like to add to the point at 10:17 about how Ellie could easily turn around and leave - personally I think that's a massive point of the game. It's definitely about violence and revenge, but to push it even further, it's about how letting Abby live is the first choice Ellie EVER gets to make in her life.
When she got bitten she chose to die with Riley, but whoops! Turned out she was immune. Marlene chose to set her on a path to save humanity. Joel chose to take her sacrifice away from her. Joel chose to take her her to Jackson. When she was finally ready to forgive Joel, Abby took away that possibility of fixing her relationship by taking his life - and she was once again powerless to do anything about it. Seeing a pattern?
So when Ellie is set on a path of revenge, it's not because she is choosing to do so; it's because she feels she HAS to. Her MOTIVES are not her own. She's as much a victim as she is the instigator and is trying to be who she thinks she needs to be in the moment (hence why she is mimicking Joel a lot in her violence) - but the violence won't help her be free. Hell, even when she thinks she's finally going to get revenge on Abby, that gets taken away from her too when Abby wins the fight. But as soon as she chooses NOT to follow the path of revenge she was set on, she finds some level of inner peace. She doesn't necessarily forgive Abby in that moment - she forgives JOEL. She lets go of the weight of that burden... and is finally able try to move on, and find her own path in life.
This is the main reason I don't actually know if Ellie will be the main character in the next game. I feel her story has more or less been completed, in the sense that her future is finally her own. We don't know for sure if she actually wanted to find a cure - it's just what Marlene wanted her to do. It could definitely be an interesting story, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Ellie's walk into the sunset be her final scene, leaving her future open to all possibilities.
uuuhsh... that was on point my man, great comment
My gut reaction is “noooo you better be wrong I want more ellie” but maybe, like Ellie, we need to learn to let go🥲
This is something that I've had on my mind for a while. Most of Ellie's choices and agency is taken away from her. Some of it is just because of life and some by other people. Like you said, she couldn't die with Riley. I think both the Fireflies and Joel took her choice away from her because I don't think we FULLY understood Ellie's POV about being the cure until the end of the first game and again in TLOU. Ellie couldn't fully repair her relationship with Joel because of Abby, so on and so for.
What's interesting when it comes to the cure storyline is that I really do believe that Ellie made that her "purpose". In the letter from Ellie's mother, she tells Ellie to find her purpose and hold onto it. Ellie tells Dinah she can't infect her but she can't cure her either. I think a lot o Ellie's story is purpose and when that is take away, what does Ellie have? What will be her reason to survive? I'd like to think with the ending that she's going back to Jackson. Ellie has the bracelet from DInah so there's speculation that the two of them are back together but I like to think she's going back to Jackson, that she has a place with them in that community.
The only thing I could think about for a TLOU3 if it continued Ellie's story would be the question of, does Ellie have the same purpose? If we put the cure storyline to rest, what would Ellie choose? To be the savoir to mankind? Or does she have a bigger purpose than that?
Ellie will definitely be a big part of 3. It’ll come full circle where she’ll sacrifice herself for the cure. I hope Abby is in it, she was my favorite character in part 2. Voice acting for Abby was great.
I feel like the whole point of the revenge "drag" of Ellies part of the story IS the feeling the player has about "Ellie, stop this and go home"
It is the exact same feeling I got at the end of Part 1 when you have to shoot the whole god damn hospital down to get Ellie out of there.
I felt very bad and it was a real gut punch to have to do that knowing that this was not good at all.
I litterally doubted at some moment if I would finish the game as I didn't want that. (Until i remembered, its not a game where I play the hero, it is a game where the devs let me play THEIR story).
Same goes for Ellies story.
And half way you basically act on that feeling with Abby. With Abby you feel together with here that all the violence has to stop. She is trying to coop with things herself as others tell her how she is a piece of shit.
Really nice contrast and very well executed to give people the feeling they should have.
And to be fair, i think that the biggest reason for people hating the game is that they are not playing the hero storie they wished it was.
No heroes death for Joel who doesn't deserve it, no revenge arc with a happy ending and a forced perspective change to let you see what happens after revenge.
11:40 i personally loved jesse and was petrified when he got shot and died so quick. he was extremely likeable and you spend a good amount of time with him as ellie. he was a good dude, sadly roped into everything
as Stuart said in the video, there was nothing particularly special about Jesse. The sections where you ventured out with him as your companion as Ellie felt different than with Dina, or Joel, though. Ellie was protected by Joel in the first game, then became the protector of Dina in the second game, but with Jesse they felt driven by the same goal; protect Dina (even though Ellie's want for revenge eventually becomes more important), and I really liked the dynamic of Ellie not falling into either of those roles with Jesse. Jesse felt more understated, but the sections where he talks about his mother were really compelling, and, personally, he represents someone less brutal in a very brutal world; he's a son, and preparing to become a father, and those things are important in their own rights, even if they appear unremarkable in a story about more remarkable people. The way they handled his death - the quickness of it, the way we had no time to linger on it, and instead, advance to the Ellie/Abby fight, I think, really represents how quickly humanity is snuffed out in a world as cruel as TLOU, and that not adapting to the cruelty (in the ways Ellie and Abby did) will catch up with you. Jesse was a cool guy. RIP.
@@xXGizMonkeyXx well said, but i just clicked with jesse idk. i was really sad when he died, when you go to find tommy with him the little conversations added a lot to their friendship, along with the beginning of the game when he wakes her up
@@aaronbissonnette i liked jesse dying suddenly--people are all mad at TLOU2 bc Joel didn't get some heroic death but in reality that's not how people die. In war, the most special and interesting and funny and loved people you know will die like dogs instantaneously by the most random shit bc that's just how life has to go.
@@Blexg yeah im not sure what people expected. joel isnt supposed to be a hero. ironically enough, him doing a good deed by saving abby got him killed. so technically he died for doing the right thing. much like in real life, you arent gonna be rewarded for doing the right thing, usually ends up being the opposite
@@Blexg and the thing about jeese’s death, of it being so quick and you process it, i found that incredibly real and raw. i dont see how its a negative that “oh its just for shock” then people complain about things “not being realistic” when that’s probably the most realistic way to die in a scenario like that. you’re shot in the face, and you’re fucking gone
I think it's so amazing that the one person who can accurately understand what Ellie was going through was the one she was hunting. But they were too far into their emotions to accept that maybe if they just talk to each other about their trauma and thirst for vengeance and the cost, they could gain far more than they ever could beating the crap out of each other. I personally think the story is amazing. However the game is REALLY long. Like almost too long but there is so much necessary development across both story lines that it's kind of necessary. And I love how the last thing Ellie lost in her struggle was one of the most important things Joel gave her, the ability to blay guitar. I don't care what the detractors say. The story is emotionally impactful and fantastic
A lesson I learned a long time ago was that life is a cycle of Loss and Growth.
Growth means that you have to Lose things, and Losing things means you have to Grow to live without them. It's a perpetual cycle of growth leading to loss leading to growth leading to loss, but every time you complete this cycle you move on to greater and more permanent things, and through this cycle create something that'll change the world and the lives of the people you love.
Or, you could be incapable of moving beyond your loss and never growing, or never growing because you don't want to lose what you have.
Ellie and Abby are both characters that were incapable of growing beyond their losses, and ended up stuck in place and losing everything they had--because they just couldn't move on.
I think if Abby and Ellie met under different circumstances, they'd actually be pretty good friends.
Last of us franchise was base on movies like no country for Old men and the road characters in those movies and videogames the last of us are just plot device to drive the central theme of the story the characters were not ment to be fan service like the typical fans associate with
Yeah its clear what they were going for, the similarities between Abby with Joel and Ellie were clear to see but i think the execution of it is what annoyed a lot of people. I am interested to see what happens with the final chapter because Ellies story seems finished but i think ND know after no more Joel then having just Abby would not go down well. The immunity and fireflies are the only two big plot points but i don’t know how they’ll weave a 3rd game around it but thats why they have writers and directors
Favorite part of this game is just the brutality of it all. Nobody dies a heroic death like in most games/movies. People you play with for hours and hours are just shot and killed like its nothing. There were multiple times I had to pause the game and just sit there to process what happened.
No other game affected me like this one. It took me months to get over the ending of the game. Seriously one of the best, if not the best game ever made.
Exactly.
It was brutal.and beautiful
Tell that to all the people who prefer New Hammond’s death from Dead Space remake. Weirdos
at least with Dead Space though I was never invested in the characters except for Isaac. I know the remake helped flesh them out a little bit more than the OG, but The Last of Us actually invested in the side characters and you come to like them.. and then 1 second and a headshot later they are gone. @@greytakerrev7147
It's fucking dogshit
I'm someone that loves to be emotional destroyed by a story, and naughty dog nailed it. Part 2 is definitely my favorite game of all time. Never have I felt such a rollercoaster of emotions. It was a wild ride, and I enjoyed every moment of it.
I was emotionally drained after playing..... I loved it
Yeah people came in expecting a happy ending for some reason, and then were furious when they didn’t get it. It’s definitely not perfect and I get why people didn’t like it, but I enjoyed it. I’m glad it didn’t end in a happy ending because I just don’t think that would’ve felt realistic. I think it would’ve felt much more hollow and lazy.
The game is fucking poorly written dogshit
12:30 Abby’s friends having a bigger role in Joel’s death would be kind of against the point of some of Ellie’s arc.
If they were all just as guilty as Abby it would go against the whole “us vs. them” thing, where Abby’s friends are guilty by association. They’re on “the enemy team,” which is enough to justify their deaths to Ellie, because they’re all collectively “the bad guys.” That’s part of what makes her actions as bad as they are, because on a surface level Abby’s friends really didn’t have much to do with Joel’s death, other than supporting their friend Abby (not implying they are innocent.)
If Abby’s friends had all taken turns beating Joel with a golf club I think we’d lose a lot of the weight and discomfort that comes from Ellie murdering them all, because she’d be way more justified in doing so since they all played a bigger role in Joel’s death. This would minimize the themes about the destructive nature of revenge, especially the damage it does to those outside of or less involved with the triggering event.
Abby’s friends may be guilty, but they’re not nearly as guilty as Abby, which is why the “revenge bad” theme works in the first place. It’s a minor part of the whole games message, but it’s still important.
Perfectly said!
They helped her for the same reason Dina and Jesse helped ellie. They knew her dad like they knew Joel and they would've been fine letting it go but they wanted to help bring closure to their friend
I ain’t reading allat 😂
@@mateohodge6998 exactly
@@RickyhoImes who said you had to? Why even reply? Wasting your own time
FINALLY BRO. I've been searching so long for someone that likes this game. It's my favorite game of all time and I was really hurt when I saw that the people didn't like it.
The fact that you had to search for someone else who liked it should say a lot.
@@TheDanimal91a lot of people are babies and couldn’t handle the unorthodox story! Gamers being retarded it’s a tale as old as time
The majority like it. There’s just a loud minority of people who have a weird hate for it. Hence why it won a couple of fan voted awards
@@TheDanimal91there’s a lot who like it, videogamedunkey just to name one, arguable the most acclaimed reviewer on the platform. The people who like it just never made a massive internet bandwagon
@@isaiahwilliams2622there aren’t that many who like it cause it’s trash
I don’t think TLOU 2 is about revenge but more so about forgiveness. Joel and Ellie’s last canonical scene is her trying to forgive him. That’s the memory she has of him while she’s strangling Abby.
She doesn’t forgive her it’s just that she realizes it’s all for nothing.
As the biggest TLOU2 defender, I think you made some really strong points both for and against. Some of the cons you pointed out are interesting for me to consider, especially the side characters being fairly dull. Great video matey x
Side characters being dull is a good thing to you?
@@papalevan I’m saying it’s an interesting criticism
@@Will-ob8xp But that was one of the many top reasons why many of us strongly disliked the game.
Yeah I don't even really think it's debatable that they dropped the ball with a LOT of the side characters. This is one of my favourite games of all time, and I'll still admit that I couldn't give a fuck about a single one of Abby's companions beyond Owen. When Manny's dumb ass got plugged unceremoniously I literally chuckled. Ellie's companions are only marginally better, I think Dina's & Jesse's actors did a fantastic job with very underdeveloped roles, but it wasn't enough to make them very interesting. The character writing outside of Joel & Ellie in general feels off. Even Abby & Lev who they REALLY try to develop don't work particularly well and stand in STARK contrast to the nuance and wonderful character writing of Joel & Ellie. With that said this is a game of highs and lows IMO, and the emotional impact of some of the best moments outweighs almost all the flaws for me. This game genuinely affected me emotionally and I find the exploration of Ellie's grief and her forgiveness of Joel to be heartbreaking and beautiful.
I find the point about the side characters being dull interesting as well. But I wouldn’t say I agree with it completely. I think that if you were going to put any more stuff about these characters in the game it would have distracted from the main characters and the theme of the game. Also not a lot of side characters get that much of a coverage in most linear games. Maybe one or two but that’s about it. Open world games are different though. I’d say that the dullest out of the game was mainly on Abby’s side with Leah, Jordan, nick. Everyone else felt pretty rounded to me. For Isaac, since he was mentioned in the vid, you learn more about him as you’re going through notes posters on the walls. So if you’re intensely scavenging you actually get a pretty good idea of him both on Ellie’s and Abby’s sides.
My favorite line from TLOU1 that crops back up in TLOU2 is during her interaction with Sam.
“…Being alone. I am scared of ending up alone.”
And by the end of TLOU2…
I enjoyed Part 2 as well. However, I do think there’s more to the story than just being a condemnation of revenge. It’s an exploration of what revenge does to a person and how someone can come back after everything they’ve done and restore their humanity and peace of mind.
8:25 runners and other infected (though it may change throughout the stages) can be killed in any way a normal human can be killed aside from starvation or dehydration. It’s expanded on that some infected just drop after 2-4 months, going the typical route for Ophiocordyceps unilateralis (the real world type of cordyceps that thé game was based off of) by puppet-ing the host to an area and then growing from the body and releasing spores to further spread the infection. A lot of clickers (and specifically bloaters/shamblers) are people who were either weirdly genetically predisposed to survival in this situation or who were larger/stronger/more resilient. Infected do canonically eat humans/game animals etc (beginning of tlou 2, when Ellie and Dina run across the eaten Moose) .
If you’re wondering about how they survive the runner stage/how they survive being infected before turning, the cordyceps fungus would eat you inside out for fuel, and once you have a severe enough deficit of what’s necessary to sustain the host/the fungi (and I assume the energy expended to upkeep and influence the hosts body) it’d just settle down on a wall. Same thing happens when the brain dies before the host turns. Think left behind when Ellie is searching for a Medkit and finds the body of the pharmacist in the knockoff american girl doll store. The pharmacist either turned and became a clicker (the likely route from what I remember of what their face looked like) and then after being locked in for 20 years couldn’t go on and just settled in the corner. More intact bodies surrounded by fungi probably killed themselves before they turned/died as a runner. OH! We can also see in the stalker stage many infected have concave stomachs and a very starved form. It’s possible that the reason stalkers become so strategic is because some hosts aren’t enough on their own to survive to the clicker stage, and so they have to hunt and be sure to catch their prey without expending too much energy wildly sprinting after anything that makes noise! The end of this sort of spiraled into theories I have but! Interesting question! ( it’s also possible they ate rats???)
It's the metal gear solid 2 situation all over again. People hated that they were made to play as Raiden, instead of snake. But years later MGS2 is now considered one of the strongest entries in the series.
The best of the series is MGS3 and 1 , and no, apples and oranges, Kojima is a GOAT druckman fired all the good creators and imprinted his sexual depravity in part 2 and the Series , so STFU
2, 3 and 5 were the best. Mgs1 was good for it's time.
This piece of shit will never be considered that
It was considered good later on for different reasons
just finished. one of the greatest games i have ever played. truly nothing like it.
It's the perfect sequel imo
I finished a few weeks ago. I agree with you 100%
completely disagree but glad you enjoyed it
If this is the best game you ever played the bar is extremely low then
@@Drunkpunch33 some people are casual gamers man. Not everybody wants to play games with amazing stories that are hard as fuck.
I overall really love this game, from it's dynamic and incredibly tense gameplay to it's amazing world building and beautiful visuals, to the best in class voice acting/facial capture and sound. However, I do think there's a lot of issues with the script, a ton of irrational behavior and contrivances that don't hold up to scrutiny and often feel mechanical in order to advance the story and reinforce the themes regardless if they make much sense. With that said, what I think this game NAILS, even more so than the first game, is the quiet moments. The slow exploration sections where you learn about the world's factions and conflicts. The long slow trek through Joel's house while Ellie grieves, taking the chance to go over some of his prized possessions and even smell his jacket. The musical section where Elie plays Dina the song Joel played for her, but stops because it's simply too painful to remember. The scene with Ellie & Dina in the basement smoking a joint, knowing that Joel will never get to see her happily in love. The flashbacks to a time where Ellie & Joel seem to really have embraced the father daughter dynamic and seem to really love each other, the absolutely gut wrenching flashback of Ellie finally beginning to forgive Joel, presumably, right before his horrific death. Ellie sitting in the water completely defeated after finally learning to forgive Abby the way she forgave Joel, and finally Ellie putting the guitar aka her last memory of Joel in the empty house where Dina and her lived, only to move on with nothing left to live for, yet somehow finally healed from her intense grief. These moments are so emotionally powerful and add so much to the overall narrative arc that the first game started, that I'm extremely happy this game exists, warts and all. With that said, I think the core revenge narrative particularly in regards to Abby's sections, are lacking anywhere near the same emotional heft and nuance. Perhaps there's just too much stacked against her, with her BRUTALLY killing our protagonist, and us already being so attached as an audience to Ellie & Joel. I think this is the challenge they were very brave for taking on, getting us to empathize and care for a character we desperately don't want to.. It's a great idea, but I don't think it was executed nearly as well as the Ellie & Joel arc, which is still absolutely the heart and soul of this franchise. For starters, Abby's "revenge" on Joel, feels unbelievably sadistic and cruel.. I understand it's the apocalypse, there's not much to live for, and he took her father away.. BUT.. Preparing for YEARS and YEARS, stalking, then brutally maming him slowly to death with a blunt object after he SAVES her, while never once throughout all those years stopping to consider why he killed her father in the first place... It's a little TOO much to ask us to sympathize with her after this IMO. Even Joel never displayed this level of sociopathic sadism, simply in the name of revenge. He killed ruthlessly and efficiently to protect who he loved or to survive. He didn't go on a fucking 20 year revenge quest to slowly torture/kill someone out of nothing but spite. At this point, Ellie's resulting sadism and bloodlust feels like a pretty justified response considering the absolute savagery with which Joel was killed. I understand the whole cycles of violence angle and how difficult it is to break... but I think Abby REALLY upped the ante & set the tone in terms of ruthless and inhumane brutality here. Abby's redemptive arc of saving a couple of kids who happen to be part of the tribe/group she's been ruthlessly slaughtering with her douchebag military buddies for years also feels like WAY too little, too late. Also Abby is generally even in her quiet and humane moments way less endearing, funny, charismatic and generally likeable than Joel or Ellie. Her fear of heights and her insecurity regarding Owen & his new relationship are clearly meant to make her relatable, but it's simply not enough IMO. I don't HATE Abby, she's cool to play as, and I actually think the actress did the absolute best she could given the material.. but it's a very tall order to make an audience buy into her as a protagonist, and for me at least they didn't quite pull it off. & TBH it even seems like they knew this, because they put the best gameplay segments, boss battles, set pieces, weapons etc.. in her sections lol. It feels slightly manipulative. PLUS, ALL of Abby's companions/friends are very underdeveloped and bland. Particularly people like Manny, who I couldn't have given less of a fuck about when he randomly got plugged by Tommy. Owen is by far the strongest character from Abby's sections, and even he isn't great. At least he is a little more interesting and conflicted. Ellie's side kicks also are generally lacking in depth or real character arcs, but at least Jesse & Dina are charming / charismatic enough to see why someone would like them in the first place. IMO there was a lot of overreach in the script of Part 2 that leads to a pretty inconsistent experience. Ultimately though, what it adds to Joel & Ellie's story and the emotional impact those sections leave are 100% worth the stuff that I didn't enjoy as much, and despite the flaws I consider it to be one of my favourite games of all time.
You perfectly summed up my feelings for this game. Great analysis!
@@marnixvangestel4082 Thanks for reading my long ass opinion piece, I didn't realize how much I wrote initially LOL.
But like actually, this is incredibly reflective and well thought out, and I'm glad somebody can see all the work that went into this experience to make it different but just as impactful as the previous game
Just want to say you put this so well. I disagree with some parts personally, I didn’t like the game and absolutely do hate Abbey and sadly these parts where the game is lacking taint the whole overall experience for me too much, but you summed up what so many people have big issues with perfectly. I fully respect if people did like it and it landed emotionally for them, but it drives me nuts how many people act like it’s a masterpiece that can’t be criticized in any way, because even objectively from a writing perspective that’s just not true.
I really wish Abbey’s character had been written with more care so it would’ve been an actually “morally grey” area emotionally for the player, it could’ve been incredibly interesting. But like you said, they let her go full on sadistic sociopath and there’s just... no way to make her actions “justified” after that, no matter how much backstory they want to put in there. By the end of it I wanted to kill her off so bad if for nothing else just to keep the rest of humanity safe, lol. So many of her key actions in the game are at best selfish and at worst cruel, and it doesn’t line up realistically with how personalities work if they want us to think she’s also somehow so caring and tender with Lev etc. You don’t just flip that behaviour on and off and whether they meant to or not, Abbey came across well beyond someone who’s simply doing what she can to survive while living in a horrible environment.
Anyway, didn’t mean to rant but it’s so difficult to find people giving nuanced opinions on this game, lol. Enjoyed reading your take on it.
Very well put. Yes, there are some issues with the script but the positives massively outweigh them, but you could probably find fault with any story if you look hard enough. It doesn't however justify the amount of hatred aimed at this game.
A mature game that shows us how revenge leads to nothing more than revenge, diplomacy is the best answer to conflict, and how life isn't black and white, there are no heroes and villains.
Joel himself said in the first game: "We did what we had to survive" and "I've been in both sides".
This story has no winners, everyone loses, and everyone suffers lasting consequences.
Underrated story-telling.
But Abby won
i will agree the story telling was good and quite bold but i wish we got an actually good story and ending. i respect this game but i cant say i like it much
@@papalevan Abby’s dad was murdered, all her friends were murdered, and then her former allies were turned against her. She showed Ellie mercy for a second time, and was then almost drowned by her during a fight she was emotionally blackmailed to partake in. I think by the end, Abby realised there were no winners. She lost everything except for Lev. Ellie still has an entire community to support her. Ellie only has herself to blame for losing Dina. They both faced the repercussions of their actions (and will hopefully realise that in part 3 and become better people because of it).
@@clorby22 her dad wasn't murdered tho. They were going to perform a surgery that would've killed Ellie without telling her.
@@papalevan it was still murder
Finally, a youtuber echoing my feelings and impressions of the game.
A lot of the YT community succumbed to the hate zeitgeist that followed the leaks because they have infantile understanding of storytelling.
Nope they understood, also from a narrative point of view it took a very weird method to tell the story pacing wise, it would have been better from a pacing standpoint to do their parts in order
or they simply didnt like the story god forbid
Idk it seemed like no worse looking at it as a part 1 and 2 thing, but like I said the thing I had a problem with was pacing
@@dream6562 who are u referring to
@@Z-Mikes00I don’t doubt there are people who gave it a chance and didn’t like it, which is fine.
But you can’t deny the impact the leaks and the hatetuber reactions to the leaks had on it. I genuinely believe that if the leaks hadn’t happened the reaction would have been different. Still fairly divisive, but not a vitriolic.
I get it… people wanted another story with Joel and Ellie going on another adventure but unfortunately this isn’t Uncharted. The Last of Us shows that there are real consequences to your actions.
Doesn't make sense because Abby never has consequences
@@looopamith9456ellie killed all of abbys friends tho
@mrperfectcookie you're right I take back my statement. Joel died and ellie got revenge by killing off everyone abby knew.
@@looopamith9456 damn, you’ve got my praise for being so chill
I’m glad there’s other people who like this game a lot too, and not just for its gameplay!
Don't worry, there's plenty of people who like the game. Unfortunately, it's the haters and trolls that have the loudest voices drowning out the fans and even those with well thought out criticism.
It’s almost like that’s because you hold a radical opinion that no one cares for
@Chad Mann No, it's your lame option no one cares for.
Guys guys! Can’t we just politely agree to disagree on this? Do we have to push down EVERY opinion we disagree with?
@@MrVexedviper well the majority definitely dont like it, its unfair of u to just call them trolls when the majority do not like this game for very valid reasons
The Last Of Us part 1 & 2 are really one story. Some people just like the first part, but i find both to be fantastic games. They could have pandered to the audience, made a comfort fiction Joel and Ellie adventure, but instead created something much more interesting. This is what story telling is all about. Thank you to Naughty dog for creating a very grim and adult story, in a world filled with nothing but comfort fiction, it was truly refreshing for those of us who enjoy these darker and more thought provoking tales.
I love that ND chose to go for a much bolder dive into Hatred and Revenge and really make the story interesting. Because there is nothing 'comforting' in TLOU world, it's a very dark time in humanity and the game reflects it. A lot of the music and art I consume is quite frankly is quite dark and misundertood ALL THE TIME. Some people have not made peace with their inner demons and only want the happy times in life. I love both the light and dark, but I frequently dive into the darker subjects much more often.
I love Part 2. Even with the pacing being a little off and the game being a bit longer than it needed to be, it's an absolutely stunning experience.
Part 2 is basically Depression simulator the game. There is no hope. Everything is black. Everyone is broken. If you’re a nihilist, you’ll LOVE this game😂
I liked it, too. Of course it stresses me out and I had to take several days of a break when that Ellie boss fight at the theatre broke out, but overall it was a marvelous experience to go through all the rage and sadness with both Ellie and Abby.
The last of us part 2 is my favorite game of all time
They should rewrite Jesse in the show to be a Step Son to Tommy. I just think it would make him more central to the group and the mission of finding Joels killers once Tommy puts his neck on the line.
That would have been so much better
Ohhhh I like this idea! That could definitely work
This game is hated because the first game was a major film. The second game was a small independent film based on the theme of revenge. Most people don't like independent films. This is worse because most people connected with Joel and Ellie. They connected so strongly they forgot this world is cruel and no one is special. Joel isn't special, he's just special to YOU(the fans) because you followed their story. Proof? Follow the story of Henry and Sam from their beginning to meeting Joel and Ellie and you wouldn't care that much about Joel and Ellie. You'd be sad at the ending of Henry and Sam. More proof? What if the last of us was a story about a girl looking for revenge for her Dr. Dad dying and she tracked down his killer. Do this without knowing anything about Joel and Ellie. You wouldn't care. Joel is only important because you watched his journey, but it doesn't stop the rules of this world. My love of independent films makes me appreciate The Last of Us 2. It's truly a masterpiece on the level of Park Chan Wook's Revenge trilogy (Sympathy for Mr Vengeance, Oldboy, Lady Vengeance).
No, why I hate the game was it takes away my choice in the game....twice.
Its fine that they arent special. But I didnt get to kill Abbey OR Ellie. I WANTED TO KILL ABBEY. I dont feel bad for her. and it should have been up to me the player to make that decision, Just like it was up to the player to kill the surgeon at the end of TLOU.
@@Tyrant372 then you miss the entire point behind the theme of revenge being bad. The point of the game was for BOTH girls to come to an understanding that revenge isn’t worth it.
@@jonhinged I understand the point. The point just isn't valid for all people. Especially in the way they presented it in the game. They forced Ellie to abandon her happyish ending to go at it a 2nd time....and then refuse to give the player the option to make that choice.
@@jonhingedthat theme is represented so poorly
The second game is the most overproduced Hollywood tripe you could possibly make, one of the most expensive games of all time
This is THE video I have been waiting for. Sums up my thought excatly.
You liked it?!!!
I LOVED it!!! 💯
It is not fair at all to be little the involvement Abby's friends had in the death of Joel. They in fact, are the ones who made it possible. Not only did they help her make her way across the country but even if she had managed to do that on her own they quite LITERALLY held down Tommy and Ellie AND Joel so Abby could do the killing. Without her crew for support it would have been Abby vs 3 people. She would have stood no chance. Her crew are JUST as responsible for Joels death. Factually
Also Ellie's focus was Abby anyway. Killing Abby's crew was more of an incidental goal
The story was top tier in my opinion lol. Especially if you loved the first one.
I loved this game from release, but I'm seeing a trend where some people who absolutely hated it at release are starting to warm up to it. I think after the rage of Joel's death wore off, some people were able to respect what the story was trying to convey.
I'm the same as you, but there was never denying the story did have some writing and pacing issues, even if we understand fully what they were trying to convey. Most importantly, about that rage to Joel dying, something I'll hand to those haters is that SOME of them were smart enough to say the issue wasn't him simply dying, but WHEN he died, and honestly I have to agree on that one. The fact that we had trailers with Joel alive past that point says him dying that early was a last minute change, and no, I don't believe that conspiracy theory that those trailer scenes were just for fooling us.
B-but video game daddy dead...
@@CHRISCAMPO-wq8bi the first game’s trailer hinted that joel would become infected and ellie would have to kill him.
As someone who loved the game to death early on when it came out only to see hate everywhere, I knew that with time there will be much more positive views about the game. Over the last couple of years, 90 percent of the videos related to the game is overwhelmingly positive. Many hating it won't stop it from going down as one of the most iconic video games of all time.
The fact the praise came years later after the discourse was old and gone says alot about the defense of the game.
It should've been able to stand up when the game came out and the critisms were being made.
Being the last person in the debate hall after everyone's left and the discussions has closed doesn't make you right.
@@justadude3789 i mean, the game won a lot of awards from both critic and fan voted polls and up there with Witcher 3 and Elden ring so there's that
@@AkramHossain-og8lj yeah and so did the transformers movies. They're still garbage. And let's be fair main stream critics haven't exactly been the most unbiased objective people the last decade.
@@justadude3789 what about the transformers movies? All I have seen is critics and fans calling the Transformers movies substandard. That is a weak
comparison to the product of arguable one of the greatest video game developers of modern time.
Yes critics aren't unbiased but their opinions and assessment are more coherent to how the geneeal public appreciates this
Every time this guy finishes a sentence, his last word is stretched out and it sounds like his voice is breaking
This is the first time i see someone making a common title "Why it's great", but not going for words like "Masterpiece", "Thrilling", "Amazing" on preview, but instead "I like it" 😄
Ellies worst fear is being alone and she was left with nothing in the end…
Her hatred towards Joel… its all a mirror image of what Joel did in the first game and it just further elaborates on what you will do for the ones you love. For better or worse.
I was baffled by all the hate of The Last Of Us 2. I thought it was frigging great. I feel like many missed the point/meaning of the story. It's not just "revenge is bad." There is a deeper story. I love it. All the groundwork was laid out in The Last Of Us. It is a great overarching story.
I find that a lot of people don't understand why someone could dislike part 2 despite understanding what the game was trying to do and say. As a matter of fact, most people who praise part 2 tend to incorrectly represent why someone could not like it
When I read some opinions on the internet it feels like I played a completely different game. I love Part 1 and especially Part 2, I think it’s a perfect sequel
It's funny how The Last Of Us 2 gets much more hate than it deserves, and all it really comes down to is that people were upset that Joel died and refused to pay attention or be invested in any of the game afterwards.
Some yes, my experience in discussions about it is that some people saying that about Joel death, when pressed on the matter all comes up to Abby big arms and how Gay and “woke” the game is or whatever that means. I did love the game and I still play some encounters sometimes (thank you ND for the option).
The problem is that most people who have negative things to say are basement dwelling trolls who keep harping on about woke agendas and the message. They've probably never even played the game.
I don't have the ability to critique a game or a movie so intelligently. I just know how something makes me feel. I agree with most that the story of the first game is better............arguably the best story that's ever been in a video game.............but Part II was AMAZING to me. No other game has ever made me confront the emotions that this game has. The game is a stroke of genius and I hope that Druckmann isn't discouraged from some of the criticisms.
Personally, I respect this game, I don't love it, it's not the game I wanted, but I respect it. Would I love to have something different? Probably.
But the biggest thing that really breaks my heart is how the fanbase became toxically divided, tbh my experience with the fanbase of this especially when part 2 rises, is always never good. Esp now with the TV Show and all the edits coming along trending, it's kinda hard to talk about part 2 without getting a negative feedback, or saying your dumb, or how close minded you are. and to me thats just unfortunate how divided we are now.
Personally my headcanon is "The Closer's Look's" version of this story. but hey again
I respect TLOU2, alot of times this game has impacted me in alot of ways, and changed my perspective. But it's not the game I was expecting or love, but i respect it.
based. i hate the games ending and think so many things didnt work. but really looking at this game its clear there was good intent and a vision that i think is quite interesting and cool.
i may not particularly like this game but i respect the living shit out of it. ill take something bold and unsafe than something bland and safe. even if it doesnt work.
Such a powerful game from start to finish. Fuck all the haters.
i mean. theres legit reasons to dislike this game
cringe dialogue and poor romance execution (which leaves me shocked at how good bill and frank was in the show)
poor handling of joel
pacing issues
garbage ending
bland cardboard or just bad side characters (dina and levs sister were alright tho)
its misery porn
the constant shoving in our face to sympathize with abby (a common complaint that im mixed on tho)
lack luster story (personally i think a lot worked and alot didnt)
tommy was done dirty
and the last of us awards 2020
not acting like hater of this game cant get ridiculous and stupid but then again so can alot of its defenders
Pacing issues is the only thing I agree with you, everything else you said is BS lol
@@whiskeycompany13 they're really not. Just cause u didn't have these issues doesn't invalidate the issues others had.
@@Z-Mikes00
I guess, they just seem silly.
@@whiskeycompany13 people have different experiences and tastes. And tolerances.
I'm not really into the gameplay type of TLOU as much as others but the animation blending in combat was probably the first thing I noticed as a real highlight XD. I ultimately enjoyed the story, mostly because of the composition I found fascinating and really well done - if not easily digestible. Its a deeper delve into a well trodden genre and IMO worked pretty well in a video game. To me up there with the better games over the last few years.
I’ve seen people make videos of hours long dissecting the story of this game, whether for good or bad. And for me that just says how special it is.. like how many games can people sit and pour their heart out about for over an hour, not many. But even the haters can speak at lengths about this game. Greatness doesn’t always have to be pleasant, some things can be painfully great.
...Or maybe its because they liked the first game but were so depressed about how bad the story is in the second game.
@@thesavagetaxman846 it’s been 3 years lmao. Whether you liked the first game or not, if the second was bad, you wouldn’t be able to speak about it for long periods. Bad media is media that Is forgettable, so if the last of us 2 left enough in you to speak for a long time about it, that makes it good media whether you felt good after it or not. And you say it was depressing, buddy a story being depressing doesn’t mean it’s bad 😂 there’s something called a sad story. Or is it only happy stories that are good? This is why we say TLOU2 haters can’t handle reality, reality sometimes is “depressing”.
@@marxhonore9414 I didn't say the second game was "depressing", I said it was "depressing" how bad it is.
The relationship between Joel and Ellie is what made the first game so brilliant, but Joel doesn't even get 5 minutes of gameplay in part 2 before he's killed off. At least give him some relevance to the story other than being a quick and easy revenge plot device. It wasn't "bold or brave" of the writers to instantly kill him off, it was lazy.
The characters they replace Joel with are boring and forgettable. The game fails on a major level to get the players to relate and sympathize with characters. Characters like Jesse, Manny, Nora, ect. just get killed off and are never spoken about again. Not just this, the pacing of the story is all over the place - its a mess.
Ellie's decisions in the game make absolutely no sense, she brutally murders hundreds and hundreds of people (most who had nothing or little to do with Joel's death) yet when she reaches Abby she suddenly decides "revenge is bad" after seeing a flashback of Joel. Why in the f*** would a flashback of Joel (a ruthless survivor) make her spare Abby?
All of this is legitimate criticism of the game, but I guess us "haters cAnT hAnDlE rEaLiTy". Christ give me a break.
@@thesavagetaxman846 name one person Ellie murdered cold bloodedly.. which means she murdered the person for no reason whatsoever. The person was neither intended to kill her or preventing her from her goal. And you said the first game was brilliant because of Joel’s and Ellie’s relationship, and why exactly do you want the second game to be the same as the first? 😂 like I can’t make this up… you want a sequel to be so freaking basic, same thing that you had before within your comfort zone. It’s not even a matter of not handling reality, it’s about not thinking outside the box. But y’all just want the same old that you’re used to, Joel and Ellie skipping around a garden for the second game in a row. I’ve said this before, I think there are flaws in the story just like literally any other story in any game that you would call good, but it’s basically Joel’s death that makes y’all focus more on “flaws” for TLOU2 and act like that’s the reason you call it bad, when in reality if Joel was alive, you won’t be complaining about these things such as “forgettable characters”, you would just be happy to have your daddy Joel around 😂. One more thing, who exactly was Manny’s and the others death supposed to be mentioned to? Who was Tess’ death mentioned to in part 1? Who was Sam and Henry’s death mentioned to? Even Sarah was closed off about for most of part one, but y’all won’t complain about any of this from part 1, simply because it’s not Part 2 and has your daddy Joel in it.
@@marxhonore9414 Ellie literally fought her way through an entire city killing Abby's friends and allies but only had second thoughts after reaching Abby. Ellie's change of heart is completely unjustified and makes no sense from a narrative point of view.
No one is complaining about Joel dying, its how poorly his death was handled. They could've done so much more with his character.
The characters were so mediocre and have no impact when they die its laughable. For example, Jesse and Manny get domed in the face and the characters barely react to their deaths and don't talk about them afterwords. Its like the writers forgot about them. The player is left feeling nonchalant and unaffected by their deaths.
The game is so obvious and desperate in its attempts to get us to sympathize with Abby but flops spectacularly. She isn't relatable or likable at all. Its quite hilarious actually - the players are actively routing against Abby and get themselves killed on purpose just to watch her die. The structure of the story doesn't do her any favors either as they force us to play as her for 15 hours after she beats Joel to death.
In the first game, all the characters are memorable and their deaths hit home. Even after their death Ellie brings them up with Joel who at first refuses to acknowledge them but starts opening up as the story progresses.
Moreover, Bill who only appears for one chapter, is more noteworthy than the main characters in part 2 lmao. Just goes to show how bad the characters are.
Im afraid to look through comments whenever someone says they like tlou 2
It’s so refreshing to finally be finding gamers who love this game. Who sees what it was doing. It’s by no means perfect but man.. it’s so good. Thank you for this.
Loved this thorough analysis of the game! Also great to see more talk about the gameplay too as ppl rarely mention that.
I feel like a lot of people hated Joel’s death not because of its Narrative Impact but simply because they didn’t want him to die.
That's completely false. No one had an issue with Joel dying, it's the fact that he only had like 5 minutes of screen time and played no role in the story other than being a plot device. His death was used for shock value.
They could've done so much more with Joel but utterly wasted his character. The worst part is the characters they replaced him with were bland, unrelatable and downright unlikeable.
The first game was so successful because of Joel and Ellie's relationship. Entirely removing Joel from the story was a dumb decision. It's no surprise why so many fans trash on the story, it's written so poorly.
@@thesavagetaxman846 I pretty much disagree with everything you said. Yes Joel’s Death is done for shock value but I never got this as a bad thing. Pretty much every death scene has some level of shock level which is what makes them impactful. With how graphic and gruesome Joel’s Death is the shock value isn’t cheap. And because we have an attachment to that character killing him off is a brilliant way to ignite a revenge story. Yes Joel and Ellie’s relationship is what defined the first game. But this isn’t the first game. The story needs to progress beyond that. The consequence of Joel’s Decision at the end of that game needs to affect these two characters and it does in a bittersweet way as it should for such a morally ambiguous choice. This game is defined by the absence of that relationship yet everything Ellie does it because of the relationship they had. The game is still about them but in a different way.
@@thesavagetaxman846 Joel had hours of screen time in Part II. What are you talking about? Also tell me what version of a second game WOULDN'T involve Joel's death?? That is literally the only way to tell Ellie's story.
@@cogd1599 Joel had like two appearances before they killed him off. While the flashbacks of Joel and Ellie were the best part of the game, at that point Joel is already dead so it doesn't serve a purpose.
At no point did i say I was upset at Joel dying. I said he deserved to be more involved in the story rather than being killed off straight away.
This would have been a far better story:Joel had survived the Abby encounter but Dina instead gets killed in the crossfire. Abby is chased away by Jackson defenders. Ellie goes on the revenge quest and Joel follows refusing to let her go alone. Ellie still hates Joel and blames him for getting dina killed but begrudgingly agrees to let him tag along.
Joel who has now become more softened by his time in Jackson just wants ellie to come home. He knows from his past as a survivor that revenge is a fool's game.
Ellie and Joel's relationship begins to heal and they start bonding again. Joel tries convincing Ellie to move on from Abby.
After Ellie unknowingly kills pregnant Mel, this is what causes Ellie to give up on revenge. She finally agrees with Joel to come home. As they are leaving, Abby finds them and kills Joel.
Ellie is once again filled with hatred and hunts Abby down leading to the final fight at the end of the game on the beach. Right before ellie kills Abby, she looks over at Lev and is reminded of her and Joel. Ellie thinks back on Joel and THEN decides to spare Abby's life.
This way Ellie's decision to spare Abby would actually make sense. If season 2 of the TV show doesn't rewrite the plot then it's going to be another major disappointment.
@@thesavagetaxman846 I'll give you props, that's not a bad alternative storyline - I actually like it. However, the way the story was actually enacted in the game does something that most people don't realize. It's about loss and recovery. If you lose Joel near the end of the game, you don't have time to make peace with him being gone. The player is on the same emotional journey as Ellie. The manner in which they delivered the flashbacks throughout the story provides a more cathartic ending for the revenge narrative. BUT, I wouldn't mind the changes you mentioned for the show, because that would probably work better in that medium.
Both games are amazing. Such a deep, bold story with very well developed characters and a complex, original view on the the good old “vengeance crusade.”
People who hate it just can’t take a beloved character being killed in a brutal way. Even though he himself was brutal and killed innocents several times throughout his life.
Is like playing modern warfare 2 and not killing Shepard
I don't mind that Joel was killed. I mind that he decided to act completely out of character and give his identity away to someone he's never met. It's lazy writing and you know it
It's not like it's a crime to like mid shit, hope for all our sakes it won't be
Story good because: revenge bad
I absolutely love both games. I didn't feel any dislike for the second game at all. Yea it sucks to see Joel get beat to death but didn't make me dislike the story. Everyone is entitled to their opinion as am i but my recommendation is that if you hated the story of tlou2 try replaying the game and paying better attention to it as a whole. I play through these games at least once a year usually more but approaching my 10th + playthrough i couldn't get through the games without crying like a little girl. This is the best story ever told in a video game if u ask me.
I really enjoyed the video well done and thanks for your time and work on it.
It's weird. As much as I love this game, I think a lot of stuff relies too heavily on notes you read along your adventures. I normally don't read a lot of these but in this case I did. And so for me when I finally met Isaac I actually found it really interesting because I had read so much about him from all the notes during my playthrough as Ellie. That along with the general environmental storytelling really fleshes things out a bit. So I think a lot of people who just sort of sprint through the game will have a different experience. I think thats contributes to a discrepancy of how people experience the game. Same can be said for Ellies journal. Her journal adds a lot of context to how she is feeling.
This was so well done! I’m shocked that you don’t have way more subscribers haha
I'm a firm believer that the story for this game is garbage. But, I will agree, the gameplay is actually good, it should be on par with other games and it was. But with this, it gives us a unwanted and unneeded story. I mean, of course Joel was going to have to pay for his actions and we would see Ellie try and stop that or get revenge, but this game executed that unfairly and horribly. With literal character assassination, changing Joel's character for the simple reason of wanting to kill him so we could progress Ellie. And, characters that barely have any backstory, but they expect us to care about them. Like Dina, for instance. We know nothing about Dina, but they expect us to like her because she's Ellie's "partner", blah blah. And Jessie, who was actually a bit of a cool character, but they threw him away like nothing the moment Abby confronted Ellie in the theater. And onto Abby, why the hell would they let us play as Abby to begin with? The story is about Ellie, and by introducing a new character, who by the way, killed everyone's favorite character and the focal point of the entire story. Yes, everyone can understand Abby's POV, but also understand Joel's, as he made a human decision to save his surrogate daughter. It's a human decision, morally. Everyone would make that same decision. Joel had to kill Abby's father, or else he wouldn't of been able to save Ellie. They shouldn't of made this game if they weren't going to make it right.
Their attempts to make you sympathize with or “understand” Abbey are so horribly written too-they try to make her a mirror to Joel, but everything Joel did, he did to protect Ellie. That’s what makes all those potential moral questions at the end of the first game so incredible too. Meanwhile Abbey literally plans a brutal murder JUST for the sake of revenge and then they ask us to pwease understand her poor feewings. There is no genuine build up or character driven storytelling in the second game, only the writers constantly telling the audience how we SHOULD feel about something-or that we’re dumb for not feeling something-and it was incredibly frustrating to sit through. No gameplay could make up for that in what’s supposed to be a story driven game. :/
@@ixizn Exactly. Well said.
I love the fact you are making a review of a game that was released in 2020, the gameplay section of the review was absolutely immaculate, and perfectly encapsulated, however, you made a incorrect statement, Abby’s friends were not just there while Abby did her thing, who were the guys who pinned tommy up, and who was the girl who knocked him unconscious who pinned Ellie (his saviour) to the ground and eventually knocked her unconscious, who were the two that pinned Joel to the wall and who was the girl who tourniquets his leg so he can die a slow and painful death? Everything about this video is so perfectly worded, but that is just simply false
This game is a masterpiece. It has flaws like everything, but there are so many many things that are done brilliantly. When you look back and realize all the emotions it made you feel, it shows video games are a medium like no other for storytelling. Truely a unique experience.
Are you high?
@@Kfo221 hes probably a paid bot or severely autistic about not liking people hating things.
peak game great video
i made a rant video immideately after i finished the story becaus i didnt understand the ending but after playing it a few times after i realized that the game is about humanity and the lengths some humans will go to after they lose everything important to them
Abby killing Joel in the intro is like a random Uruk killing Aragorn in the opening of Two Towers coz Aragorn killed that Uruk's dad
4:00 there's a gameplay reason for not immediately picking everything up too. sometimes before picking something up you'll want to craft an item. especially on harder difficulties when you want to maximise resources
My favourite dialogue reference from the 1st to 2nd game is when ellie is walking Joel out of the university, she says "If I get you out of this, you are so singing for me."
Awesome video. I personally loved TLOU2 and in some ways felt more connected to Abby's story than I ever did to Joel/Ellie's - which isn't to say both aren't brilliant. I guess, while I don't like the way some people talk about the plot (Joel dead, Abby bad = bad game, bad plot) I enjoy that its allowing for nuanced dialogue about plot in video games that we wouldn't have been having say 15 years ago. When I first played the Ellie/Abby fight in the theatre, I was immediately struck with how /gross/ it felt, to hunt Ellie like she was an infected. But, to me, that was one of the greatest parts of this game. Ellie's vendetta had completely robbed her of her humanity, on a similar level to the infected - there is a person underneath the fungus and infected, but they are being completely driven and controlled by something foreign and brutal - which mirrors Ellie in the situation. I also think that Lev being the only thing that stopped Abby killing Dina after learning she was pregnant is extremely significant not just thematically in this game and the first game, but going forward in the series. There are so many lessons to be learned from children (Joel from Ellie, Abby from Lev and Yara, and Ellie from killing the pregnant Mel - which had way more of an impact than any of her brutal murders up until that point), that I can see the series continuing to explore this theme of when that childlike innocence and purity becomes corrupted, and how long it can survive in such a brutal world, if at all. I would also imagine that the key to possibly finding a cure to the infection could somehow be linked to children. This comment wasn't supposed to be this long, I swear! I could talk about this game forever, and this video is an awesome representation of so many things people who couldn't move on from the intro missed out on. Keep it up man!
Fantastically annalised perspective on this amazing game.
@@MrVexedviper thanks so much!
Very true, I personally love the addition of Lev and Yara. While some people may think that the Scars as antagonists are bland/unneeded I think they gave Abby a new view on morals. Especially on the Scars' religious beliefs as Abby had previously only skimmed the texts of their people. It was nice to see Lev's perspective on fear and the aforementioned morality of killing a pregnant woman. Not to mention his loyalty and love for his mother, to endanger himself just to see her again and to hopefully change her mind even if Yara said she was beyond helping. Abby says that Lev is almost never wrong and he seems to be the voice of reason in their friendship, even if he's younger, I like how Abby still treats his opinions with respect.
tlou2 is the best video game story ever told.
if u hated it cause joel died the way he did than you’re clearly influenced by emotion in ur reviews.
if u hated it as a story than u clearly didn’t understand it
I think this is a good take.
I would just add one thing into the discussion about the theme of revenge. You say that the game is conveying not just that it is morally wrong, but that it makes things worse; it makes other bad things happen. The cyclical nature of violence, for sure, is part of the message: the Seraphites and WLF; the fact that Ellie knows if she kills Abby, then there is the chance Lev will come for her just as Abby did Joel and she did Abby. However, I think the other point that the game is making is that revanchism destroys identity and the the relational ties that define and create it. Abby basically does not have an identity until revenge is no longer part of her life. She is so young when she loses her father and she drifts from the Firelies to the WLF. She is looking for 'a cause', an identity, something to define her. She is a 'joiner', not someone with her own sense of self beyond the idea of eye for an eye violence (which is what the WLF are about, they are not idealists like the Fireflies, and one of the reasons why she fits right into them: it is a group whose raison d'etre validate and enable her warped sense of justice). You see it in her physical transformation- her need for revenge literally shapes, moulds, and grows her. However, it also destroys her relationship with Owen as she pushes him away every time he gets close to her because killing Joel comes first. It is not until revenge is no longer part of her life that the scales fall from her eyes and she eventually can break free and forge her own identity. In part, this is leaving the violence of the WLF behind (she goes from having idealism in the Fireflies to hate in the WLF and telling Owen she would go in the opposite direction if she were to find out where they are and then back again) and part of that is her relationship with Lev (i.e.- relationality, love, caring about people and them caring about you). Ultimately, she had to realise that revenge did not make her life better; it stopped her being a real person with human ties and identity.
With Ellie, by contrast, rather than revenge stopping her developing these things, it causes her to lose them. Compare Abby's and Ellie's arcs by the the way that revenge shapes their bodies- it sculpts Abby but scars and damages Ellie (Nora), it makes her vomit (Mel). Contrast the approach to relationality- it prevents Abby making things work with Owen but Ellie is scared to lose Dina, is putting her her first by deciding to return to Jackson at the end of day 3 just as Abby arrives, only to then lose it all and fuck it up because she is traumatised and obsessed. Just as Abby couldn't form an identity and independent sense of meaning and purpose because of revenge, Ellie is angry at Joel for taking away her identity, meaning, and purpose but comes to realise that she had one. She was Joel's purpose. She meant something to Dina and JJ. She already had relationality and worth and purpose and meaning- all of those things she felt she didn't have and was looking for. That image of Joel she sees before she lets Abby go is not just about the cycle of violence, but realising she already had what was important and has now lost it all and killing Abby won't bring any of it back.
It wasn't revenge that helped Abby grow. She came to realise that it held her back from being a better (and her own) person. Ellie had to lose everything to find that she already had everything she needed. However, the lesson for both is the same- the self is relational and we are defined by love and our relationships and bonds of kith and kin with others. Violence, hatred, and revenge give the illusion of purpose and meaning but are, in fact, parasites that rob us of those things.
I don't like the story and would have preferred a flat out different one, but this is a totally fair review.
I like how you say you like the game but acknowledge its flaws.
Despite me liking it less than you, I do love that after Joels death Ellie pays her respects to him by playing guitar and the flashbacks.
Joels theme being future days is my favorite thing in the game.
I’m doing a playthrough now and I’m loving every minute of it.
An example of the VERY LOUD minority hating something that the vast quiet majority actually like.
This game is HELLLLLLLLLAAAAA good if you say otherwise you’re jsut salty about Joel
FFS u guys have to play it on GROUNDED mode to truly appreciate how realistic the A.I. is. All other modes feel like a basic ass ubisoft type game by comparison. Its just not scary when u have indicators showing u the direction ur about to be seen from and still giving u ample time to hide. on grounded difficulty they spot u instantly just like in real life
its why ppl loved R6vegas cos it was so realistic, u had to have split second reactions or even the npcs in story mode will one shot u in a millisecond
do you think with the virus ellie can grow her fingers back?
I said this in a short of yt, my only problem with the game, is that we should have started playing as Abby, with her friends being hunted, and after the reveal of the killer ( Ellie), we switch to the day where Joel's killed.
This is simplified comment but i guess you can imagine :)
Many TLOU2 haters weren't even gamers, they were just crying about politics.
No. They destroyed two beloved characters and made them unlikeable in favor of new woke characters. The story was a boring teen drama with cringe dialogue. I for one did not wait 7 long years with pure excitement for this, after the writer promised they’d do right by us.
@@niallhughes2697 They're still beloved characters, for me even moreso after Part 2, they're just not heroes and they never were. They didn't "destroy" them "in favor" of "woke" characters, whatever that means. You waited 7 years for a sequel to the last of us. You got a sequel to the last of us. No one promised you you'd like it.
@@niallhughes2697
“Woke” eeeeeyup your just mad about politics lol
@@whiskeycompany13 ONLY when it destroyed my favourite characters and video game of all time.
@@niallhughes2697
I think you’re being a little dramatic
I mean, she never set out for revenge against the others. They died for standing in her way. Which I guess doesn't make it much better, but whatever.
unpopular opinion but the 2nd was better than the 1st
Prepare to be hated on just because what you said is your opinion (and let's be honest, probably the truth)
Agreed!!!
@@johnnguyen9136WHAT, I’m genuinely baffled on how you actually think this
@@croco1327 Sorry man, but that's just my opinion and I don't regret saying it
just by a little imo
Pretty much the only people who hated it are terminally online incel fanboys that wanted their Joel power trip
i will defend tlou2 till i die
Still flopped in sales part 1 37 mill part 2 less than 10 .
@@maurov.1232 i don’t care, it’s a good game
@@maurov.1232
It’s one of the best selling games on ps4
@@maurov.1232 sales don't equal quality lol
imagine defedning tlou2 though ill admit gameplay graphics and details are amazing story is dogwater though
the story is a simple revenge story but the way they say it its amazing thank you for understanding this masterpeice
It's not. There, saved you 22 minutes of your life.
it is tho
@@spoodle It's really not
@@niallhughes2697 it really is tho
It absolutely is.
I loved it too one of my favorite games of all time. I understand why some people might not have liked it and I can respect that.
Yes, the flashbacks to Joel and Ellie are by far the best part of the game, and that's exactly why it's a terrible sequel. It kills off the best part of the first game without ever introducing anyone or anything as good as the first game.
8:20
The infected dont need to eat, they're a fungus, fungi dont "eat" like an animal would
It's a perfect example of how in the real world your perspective on things isn't exactly how things are . We like to think of things usually as being one thing or the other, ie: group A are the good guys and group B are the bad guys. TLOU2 shows that it is not nearly that simple and in the grand scheme of things there are no good or bad guys. Everyone just tries to survive the best they can and take care of the people they care about. Living in a world like the world of TLOU2 all anyone can really do is deal with situations one at a time as they happen. Unless you know someone's past and what motivates them to do what they do it's difficult or impossible to 100% know for certain that any individual is actually the bad guy.
love part 2 of the last of us. only complain i have is that we cant change skins to ellie and abby like we could with joel and ellie in the ps5 version of part 1
Both games were amazing I’ve played the 1st one 8 times and the second one I’m on my 5th play through definitely in my top 10 games
As far as I’m concerned last of us part 2 is every bit the masterpiece the first game was, the story was the best part, to me it’s a “controversy” over nothing.
I like the sniper set piece because it straight up uses the games regular mechanics just like scaling tall necks in the horizon series. These cinematic encounters are a bit more harder to design when having to restrict the set piece up around the games set functions.
I think that Abby's friends are the most guilty because due to the circumstances they had risked their lives serving as Abby's squad to even reach joel. If they were just giving up their rank and or status, they really didn't commit so much to the cause but they knowingly risked their lives for this cause very likely meaning were they ended up a lone survivor that he or she would commit the act. Abby's friends are just sacrificing too much not to guess they all had murderous intent against joel and everyone at his camp - once again - were the worst winning hard was delt to the group.
"Right and wrong are not what separate us and our enemies. It's our different standpoints, our perspectives that separate us. Both sides blame one another. There's no good or bad side. Just two sides holding different views." - Squall Leonhart
I actually think the story of part 2 is a natural continuation of the first game
its bad and youre wrong, post physique
This is by far the best Last of Us 2 review on YT. Other reviews were too negative. Liked and subscribed!
The ending totally should've been a players choice kind of thing, I feel like it would've made the ending a little more effective.
Otherwise, I actually really loved this game
I actually disagree and think a player choice ending would've entirely taken away from the narrative. But I'm glad you enjoy the game!!!
No, because if the game had two possible endings, it would screw with the narrative going into part 3
@Akihiko Sanada No, not giving the players a choice in the end just shows how piss poor their narrative is and how weakly written the new characters are. If they truly did their job as writers, we would have been able to simpathize with Abby and not kill her. The new characters are at a disadvantage because they only appear in this game, so they need to be well written and likable. Unlike Ellies flashbacks, Abbys does nothing to fleshout her entire squad of characters. After all, half of the new ones only show up in cutscenes and die in cutscenes. The ones that are given time just aren't interesting or likable, for that matter. They should have just scapped Abbys useless flashbacks and just show her squad after the events of the hospital as adolescents and how they eventually found the WLF. The game was too abitious for their own good. It took 2 lousey writers 8 years to come up with this amateur hack story. It's beyond laughably bad. The only saving grace is its level design, animations, and gameplay.
@@Jack_Crenshaw I'm sorry you feel that way. But me and many others enjoy it 🤷♂️
@Akihiko Sanada it's not feelings, it's pointing out actual problems the game has. The story is the weakest part of the game. There's no deying that. Otherwise, the games story would have been universally praised on both sides instead of its animations and accessibility features.
Great work man! Will tune for more
Joels death was trash,
It made sense.
@@Fangtorn no.
@@thorthewolf8801 Yes.
@@Fangtorn no.
@@thorthewolf8801 yes.
I loved tlou 2. Joel's death is good, actually. For the story.
I don't get why ellie let abby go just because of a joel flashback during drowning abby, killing everyone else but abby who bit her finger off, it just feels stupid, it just happens so abruptly,there is no build up, joel got what's coming for him i get it but the way they try to make us empathetic towards abby is just manipulative, not to mention the false ad where they make it look like it's going to be another joel and ellie adventure
I hate this argument, killing Abby wasn't going to help Ellie accept Joel's death. You can see the sorrow on her face as she is drowning Abby. At that point, she realizes that she will never get the chance to repair her relationship with Joel and that is the real reason for her obsession with revenge. The flashback reminds her that Joel loved her and wanted her to be happy. At the very end of the game, we see that she has accepted Joel's death and leaves to find Dina, likely to try and repair the only other relationship that matters to her.
@@joshz2491 yeah for a game trying to be realistic, that part was just straight out of some generic anime plot, an adrenaline filled human does not act like that
I'll agree, the marketing for this game was downright criminal, they had joel in a scene in the trailers at a point in the game where he had been dead for several hours.
Aaaand just like that this channel will never stop being flooded with comments from people who still mourn death of their video game daddy. Which is pretty meta - they go through giref longer than Ellie did.
I have only ever platinumed two games. Bloodborne and now TLOU2. It’s a great game. Divisive but great.
im still sort of astounded by the way people didn't foresee Joel's actions having consequences and act like he was a perfect paragon who never did anything even questionable lmao. I like your explanations of things that are sane and reasonable considering the Gamer Dudebros reactions to the game (before it even came out) getting petty and stupid at record speed.
Motherfuckas should genuinely play Lisa: The Painful. That's a look into what TLOU1 could have been, if the game pulled ZERO punches about Joel's character and actions. Imagine the reactions from gamer dudebros after playing THAT:
"HOW DARE THIS GAME TRY TO SAY BRAD IS THE BAD GUY, HE'S JUST A WHOLESOME 10/10 DADDY DOING EVERYTHING HE NEEDS TO PROTECT HIS SURROGATE DAUGHTER, HE'S DA GOOD GUY!!!!!"