Not Goth Enough For The Internet But Too Goth For Everyone Else
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- Song: Batzz In The Belfry - Black Sand
You know what's weird and confusing? When the public stares and judges you as being a 'freak' while goths on the internet judge and reject by sating you're not goth enough. Each has their own cure, one being Jesus and the other a credit card or an unhealthy relationship with 'afterpay'. Going with either one rejects personal growth, self discovery and finding the real subculture so the real cure is 'THE CURE'. I recommend 'Disintegration' - it's chefs kiss
“You’re eating cake? Don’t you guys just eat clove cigarettes and black coffee?”
That is our sole form of sustenance. Black coffee with a million sugars and we just eat the clove cigarettes. Screw, smoking them.
Would the gothest cake ever be a clove spiced cake with black coffee icing? 😂
I feel like I could make this cake, and it would be delicious. 😂
@@xkidmidnightx I'm so goth I cry eyeliner
@@KimiChanJapanGotta smoke a clove cigarette while you bake it.😂
@@0therM0ther.01Same!
I remember having a goth female friend in the late 90's early 00's who asked once about her outfit "Is this goth enough?". My reply was "If you were any more goth you would be dead."
I think that's probably the best possible answer in existence.
@@angelabenedictI used to have a “I’m so goth, I’m dead” sticker on my car.
I was once told by a normie that I wasn’t Goth because I didn’t have the “aesthetic”… by his definition the aesthetic is white foundation and expensive black lacy garments. I just let him think he won the argument; I can’t teach somebody that doesn’t want to learn. 🤷🏻♀️
That's the craziest! When you have normies trying to tell you, a member of the actual subculture that you're doing it wrong because you don't look like the caricatures on TikTok and OF.
@@angelabenedictExactly- it always wanders into some weird e-girl fetish territory because that’s what they think it is. 🤦🏻♀️
My stepdaughter thinks goth is just wearing black. I'm trying to teach her, but no, she doesn't want to know anything.
@@0therM0ther.01 He writes fun books though.
Neil Gaiman is a sexual abuser by his own admission (even though he didn't seem to think there was anything wrong with what he admitted to!) and that's not even counting the allegations that two women have brought against him
wierdest one I got in the UK growing up was how many times I was told "goths dont ride bicycles"
Are they supposed to… teleport??? Or would turning into a bat and flying sans gps be more like it
@@cyberfemuwu4351penny farthing? 😂👻
@@0therM0ther.01 think they're mixing the cultures there, that's Witchy transport ;) Me? I prefer normal transport like cabs, trains and buses :D
Never seen Beetlejuice or that Smiths video, I guess?
There’s a funny, OLD youtube video of “goths doing things” where they ride bicycles to “the park”.
I love the whimsigoth aesthetic but I also love 90s goth rock, 80s post punk, and ethereal music. It's crazy that people forgot the music is the heart of the subculture!
What’s whimsigoth
@@kesterfae5447 it consists of long flowy skirts in jewel tones, bell sleeve tops, celestial or otherwise 90s jewelry.
@@kesterfae5447 Is it a Pokémon?
music,attire, inside views, deeper perspective, opened minds and hearts. please add what i missed
@@CrystalBrightz That would make a COOL pokemon.
It may sounds bad but I am so tired of this "goth influencers" that call themselves goth but hate the music. I just don't understand that, their so shallow, sorry but i feel that way. If you hate the music, well you're just not goth
It doesn't sound bad at all. You're simply wanting people to represent themselves honestly and represent the subculture genuinely. By becoming an influencer, calling themselves goth yet hating the music - all they're doing is perpetuating a lie, confusing baby bats, giving everyone else an incorrect perception of who We are and what our subculture is about and just spreading misinformation. I think you're quite valid in your feelings.
@@angelabenedict thank you so much, not only for your answer but for understanding because I didn't meant to sound superior o entitled but to put them focus on the things that matters to our subculture and livestyle. Greetings and kisses from Venezuela 💜
You're right. They are not Goths and they need to be called out.
@@Anonymous-wb3nz I agree
This is why gatekeeping is necessary and is a good thing.....
As a devoted Goth, I only eat pickled bat wings and fried cobwebs. Helps me keep my figure.
Pickled is very good for the gut. We're all about gut health.
I like corn on the cobwebs, but it's an acquired taste for most. ❤
Angela, thank you for continuing to speak out about those fashion fascists who purchased their goth costumes and think that the subculture is all about the looks and fashion industry. I think quite a lot of goths from back in the day nowadays would be mocked on the internet for not looking "goth enough" because they were (and still are) not conforming to the cages of trends and what pop culture and normies deemed goth.
I think what we lost was trying to be more laid-back and just yourself. Nowadays, it seems, everyone is too worried about fitting in in a cage and rigidly following trends. And everything seems to be about the looks, looks and looks.
Fashion used to be a part of self-expression, not a means to fit in. Besides, before everyone had social media, it was a visual marker of your tribe - the people who enjoyed the same music, books, and films you might enjoy yourself.
And I don't know if it was a local thing, but we also weren't trying to hang out only and exclusively with goths - alternative subcultures were kind of all together in one boat to some extent; we were mingling, and it seems, there were always a couple of punks, metalheads and even occasional hippies who enjoyed the music and stuff.
@@DmitryFromForest I miss cultures all being together in the 80s…you had punks, hippies, goths, metalheads, I guess hip-hoppers…even rap was a subculture…and also ska…it was all things. Now everything is very separated. I mean, Bauhaus had a reggae dub version of “She’s in Parties” and Blondie mentions Fab Five Freddy in “Rapture”. But now, most new goth music sounds like Sisters clones. You have to dig to find the good stuff. Most goths I knew back in the 80s wore a band tee and jeans or flowy shapeless black dresses or clothes with simple boots, not platforms. Red lipstick via Robert Smith and eyeliner, maybe with an ankh or squiggle. I love some of the gothic clothes offered now though, keeps my inner Victorian goth happy but goth seemed very anti fashion when I joined. It was black vs. the day glo of normal 80s stuff. I felt it was a lot like Beats. I liked Beat poetry and the romantic poets. Gothic literature. Hammer films. We got enough bullying wearing a Cure shirt and black pants to school…we weren’t going to dress like over the top vampires. :). We didn’t have the money or means either. Now I have a career so I can buy a KS or Devil Fashion piece if I want but I try to buy from Kambriel and Gallery Serpentine and other indie makers as well.
@@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 funny it all gose cause Bauhaus had ties to regga and Dub
There are two types of goth: those who just listen, and those who can afford boots.
I grew up as a baby bat in the 90s everything you said was 1000% on point. Especially with these fashion so called goth kids
The best we can hope for is that they find their way.
Being yourself is one of the most important and most nonconformist things you can do, especially with pop culture, social media, etc doing their best to discourage any amount of originality.
I'd happily wear a wedding dress and spin around but I think my fiancé would have something to say. She'd roll her eyes probably 😂😂😂😁
I spin around a lot when I dance, so…probably accurate.
I remember being 7 or 8 in the early to mid 90s and seeing people with more of a romantic goth aesthetic and absolutely loving it. I told myself that when I could buy my own clothes I would dress like that.
I love hearing stories from people seeing a goth for the first time at a young age. When it's described it's almost described as seeing someone magical. It warms my heart every time!
Yesss! Around that time for me, I also remember seeing punks and goths at fairs and battle of the bands and my heart literally jumped. First major crushes were made those days 😂.
@@angelabenedict I remember back when I was 18 (2008) I'd just left boarding school. I went into the city centre one day, and seen all these people wearing black, white etc :punks, goth, emos) just chilling in the same area, listening to music and the first thought was "This is weird, creepy and.... COOL!" So wearing sports wear, I hung around on the edge. I kept doing this over time, until eventually I plucked up the courage to go and talk to someone who explained what it was about. They taught me about some bands and clothing brands, and I got a cheap set of clothes together. Ever since then, I've gotten more eleaborate and expressive with music and clothing choices. In 2017, I kinda stepped away from the fashion side because of being homeless (therefor lack of any money) and difficulties with health, but a few weeks ago, I decided its time I get back into things. Never once stopped calling myself goth, because I've always been into the music. So yeah, here I am, going to Gay Pride this Saturday, and going in a full femme gothj attire. Really looking forward to it and really enjoying being my authentic self again! Btw, thanks for the vids youi post. You're really patient and understanding of different people, especially baby bats. Keep spreading that love sister! Many kudos to youi
However real got are not performer I don't need to learn or teach who they are .Definitely they don't care about the show off around. Have ou don't have a look or not or more .I hope everybody find themselves not more ,not less.
I watched few videos but I 'm a subscriber since long time and this Channel is the best cause I choose it. LOL. Thank for all . Long life!
I was at a Normie bar in my Goth attire with a non-Goth friend last year. A Normie dude came up to us and gave me his mortuary card! My friend was offended, but I got a kick out of it! Not sure if the dude was flirting or mocking me. Either way I cackled and my non-Goth friend grumbled 😆😅🤣😂
It sounds like it might have been him just trying to be funny. Still, either way I'd take that as a compliment!
I would have laughed, too. It's funny!
As an elder goth 51, I get asked question walking down the High Street or in a shop buy baby bats questions about things, and I'm quite happy to help them and give them tips and ideas is it something I did when I was getting into the subculture I like to pass that kind of information on.
Ok but I have actually seen people in wedding dresses at a goth night
They definitely do. With this guy thought was that we went to a regular sports bar and just put on a wedding dress and spun around lol
@@angelabenedict
Ngl, kind of a vibe
..i have one rule. If you know. You know. If we have similar music preferences, and genuine interest of dark themes and open mind toward expression and individuality, is all you need, and generally i will attract others like me in social circles. and we never really declare "goth." If you know..you know.
Yea that's also why i won't bother trying to educate these other types because in the end of the day people that actually have something in common will recognize it and also immediately recognize inauthenticity
Im a Juggalo , the goths at the bourdners night club referred to us as "Goth Clowns". We appreciate the acceptance and dominate the club together on Monday nights.
PS. Honey Hennessy + Stella Rossa Black? Tremendous!
@@0therM0ther.01 Yeah I'm Hispanic and from L.A. back in the day all the elderly assumed we were devil worshipers lol. We look normal by today's standards , on the west coast especially. 🤣
Im a juggalo and a goth!!
I’m 15 years old and I’ve been goth for a year now, your videos really help me and inspire me to stay true to myself!! 🖤
That makes me so happy to hear! I'm glad you found the subculture. Stay true to yourself, experiment with music, experiment with style, find your people. I promise, it gets even better!
What Goth bands do you like?
What is your favorite Goth bands?
Omg we're the same age! Ive never met any goths my age, thats so cool!
@@Wolpertingernacht ME NEITHER ‼️
Being a southern goth who currently favors dressing like a renaissance faire escapee, you'd really think I would have gotten more too goth/not goth enough comments in my time, but I'm more likely to get compliments on my alternative wardrobe. Maybe my resting autism blank face and ingrained customer service politeness persona throw off the haters 🤷♀️
Honestly, as a transplant from the Chicagoland area to East TN, I'm finding people far more open minded down here despite the steriotypes. It must be part of the rugged individualist libertarian bent in the culture. At worst someone will crack a joke if I'm dressed goth but it's not mean spirited. People went out of their way to judge back where I'm from.
I'm from the south too. Twenty years ago people thought I was a freak. Now I have all these nice older southern ladies coming up to me and telling me I'm beautiful. It's heartwarming.
So much of that applies to anyone growing up. I'm grew up more in the 80s and we used to say "don't be plastic, be yourself". I think that had a lot to do with the growth of credit cards at that time. But being plastic was being like everyone else like stamped plastic. Not sure what they say these days but it applies.
I thought that "plastic" was invented by the movie Mean Girls. I had no idea that it was an 80s thing.
@@georgiabarbieri2761Tina fey who wrote the movie based off the book queen bees and wannabes is also a gen xer so, checks? Pretty cool!
@@georgiabarbieri2761 It was long before that.
I'll be real, I went to a goth concert recently at a goth club. I adore goth music and the aesthetics, but I'm generally incredibly colorful in my clothing and pretty alt in styling. I did dress more 80s goth that night because love letter to that era of fashion and music, but with a neon orange moto jacket and neon orange lips. And like, goddamn, that was the most chill and accepting crowd I've ever been in. I'll probably be back because the concert was great but that crowd was just so chill and safe feeling. I cannot emphasize enough how great the New Orleans goth crowd is. Sad there's nothing nearby where I am. I'd stick to my bright plumage but I'd be there all the time to sing my lungs out!
I love that you were able to show up in neon orange and still feel like one of the flock. That is amazing!
A lot of 80s goths used colour back in the day!!
This channel keeps having such an important message and I'm grateful someone so empathetic and eloquent is putting it out there. Growing up as the weird one out in the 90s might have been a bit rough, but at least that allowed me to develope my own sense of self and my own brand of weirdness that has been so important in this new era that seems to seek to define every aspect of you. To define is to limit. To limit is to control. It's important to have community but community should be about support not control. I really hope people will start to remember that you don't need to have a name or aesthetic for your authentic self expression. If you try to edit yourself and your soul for other people inorder to fit into a predefined box the world will be so much poorer for that. Let your light shine ✨
Defining things for frame of reference is fine but it should not be the totality of one's self. I'm a goth I'm also a dad, husband, musician, warehouse worker, witch, pagan, etc,...(I would go on with my add brain lol). Just saying, we are all people and various things compromise who we are as individuals. I love to diy because I love fashion and showing off the Darkwave bands I love.
A community without control doesn't exist, because in polite society we a thing called morals and standards. These things define our behaviour with ourselves and towards others. Would you actually tolerant someone in your group, if their self expression as highly offensive and destructive.
@@simonwinn8757 There are also things like empathy and common sense and treating others with respect and like you would want to be treated. Being a decent human being should not be something that needs force from the outside. If outside control is someones only reason not to be a jerk then I would suggest some soul searching because clearly some healing might be required for that individual to have a better relationship with themselves and those around them.
You have no idea how much I needed to hear this! 🖤 My parents were part of the subculture so I always was around it growing up but I really only started to get more into it these past few years and felt the most alive I've ever felt! Now recently, I found a South African goth group and since goth isn't very big in our country (I'm sure in most places too), I thought I would never have the opportunity. One week goes by of me mingling and sharing music and being the happiest I've been in a really long time, I was met with the harshest treatment, only to be called a poseur because I was okay with an event that played goth, rock, metal, ebm and alternative. I was told those genres don't mix and promptly got kicked off the groups, my heart was broken. I wasn't saying those other genres are goth but I didn't even have a chance to explain myself. It's nice to hear that's not how it should be, thank you Angela! 🖤
You're very welcome! I'm glad to help. Was that South African goth group by any chance The Awakening? I know they're South African and quite good!
Goth and Metalhead for 16 years, love Both Goth Rock and Darkwave and Death Metal and Progressive Metal. I dress Goth daily, don't really know what else to say because I've commented similar things and more so for the sake of repeating myself lol 😅 I'll just end it on that note, great video. 🎃🦇🎃
Hell yeah!! Be yourself! I also like heavy metal very much (all kinds of it), I also like goth rock, punk rock, hard rock, and even some industrual... And I'm tired of people thinking you can only choose one thing! People seem to think you can be, for example, only a metalhead and listen to nothing but metal, or only strictly a goth and listen to nothing but goth and only dress in black and drink blood or something... Being alternative is about being your true unapologetic self, so It's annoying when people try to push alt people into boxes. So you rock, really!!
@@underoakss That I truly agree with, you're definitely correct! I use to think thr the same thing 16 years ago until I realized my interest for both Goth music and Metal music. It Still remains the same as it did to this day and I agree with the notion of being yourself, trust me, Even at work I'm still gothed out and my work area has some sort of spooky dolls or collectibles lol like my SAW movie figurine or Freddy Krueger, Scream and a 9 ft tall vampire Venus fly trap with vampire teeth.
@@thelastdaybreathinginetern1385I always tell people I'm both a goth and a metalhead, lol! I recognize they're both distinctly different, but both very much apply to me. I think it's great to have variation not just in yourself, but also in the community as a whole. The intersection between those two identities shapes how we show up in the scene and adds to the unique character of the whole subculture. Everyone's quirks on display!
A month ago my HR person found out I was goth and had questions. Her 12 yo daughter is turning into a baby bat. She was brought up in the satanic panic time and had lots and lots of questions. Being that I am 54, I went over that and mostly the history. Let her read my book about Manray and gave her the link to this channel. She has kinda embraced it and is sucking it up like a sponge. Her daughter is definitely learning a lot too. Keep up the great work!
I think that's really cool that she was interested enough in her child's development and interests to come to you. A lot of what you see which is really sad is the parent trying to strip the goth out of them by throwing out their clothes and forbidding them to listening to certain types of music. But she was genuinely interested and didn't want to stifle her kids development and that's freaking awesome!
I would legit love to wear an ethereal wedding dress and spin around to Switchblade Symphony in the darkness with other people. If clubs were like that, I would go hahah
what's goth food?
tutty fruity ice cream can be goth if you eat it with enough spite.
Your comment made the image of goth eating that ice cream with black bat shaped sprinkles ever so grouchily pop into my mind. So freaking funny.
Now I want to see those two frowny face goth guys who make those shorts doing normiie things make an ice cream parlor video!
That black ice cream you get at gothic festivals.
@wildmarjoramdieselpunk6396 cant handle the dye. I don't want goth poop
@@pathevermore3683 :) I can’t eat red velvet unless it’s dyed with beets. I just don’t like artificial food dyes.
Minds are like parachutes - they work best when they are open!
I love that saying!
Aww you brought up Indian food and goths being more open minded about trying new things. Fun story, my friend group was hanging out at Barnes and noble. I grew up goth during mid to late 2000s so goth event were nonexistent and also being the Midwest so things to do were book stores and coffee shops.A Indian dude approached one of my friends and asked if we wanted to try Indian food and were like “ oh something new to try” the dude was interested in a friend so he took us out to a Indian restaurant and that’s how my love affair with Indian food begin.
You are so important to the goth community and baby bats. A voice of reason and I wished you were around on RUclips when I was growing up. My first step in the alt scene was Avril Lavigne and it was so confusing cause she actually wasn’t alt but was using the punk aesthetic but actually spoke out against punk music so thankfully I discovered hot topic and they had compilation cds from projekt and Cleo records and that how I got into to goth subculture and music.
Yeah its 1:55am in England but I'm definitely staying awake now 😅🖤
Aww! I hope you enjoy this one!
@angelabenedict & yes we definitely love an Indian in England
That's crazy that Indian food wasn't popular over there , I don't eat meat so Hindu vegetarian cookbooks are my bibles , I also enjoy the experience of shopping in my local Indian supermarket , lots of statues of Indian deity's and incense burning , and a very chilled experience compared say Tesco's. I wouldn't eat an ice cream cone in public though , don't want to shatter my image (whats left of it) 😂😂 , and don't want the normies see me eating such goodies , let them think I drink demons blood, then i secretly eat ice cream at home 😂
I was blown away by the amount of wonderful Indian fare in England when I first moved there. Because the first time I had really tried it properly was about 2005. There was one Indian place called the Curry Club and of course I had the training wheels dish of anyone starting Indian for the first time and that was, Tikka masala. After that, I made it a point to try everything... Except dal and vindaloo - I don't think my pallet could have handled that fire. Now, we have our pic of Indian food which I'm so happy about because more people have tried it and have realized the glory of the Indian spice palette!
@@angelabenedict I go to about medium heat , as can become too hot to enjoy
I think I've let a comment in another of your videos that really was an eye opener for me, but this one remind me of when I was a kid.
I rarely dressed "goth" per se, because I were on a private, religious school, but somehow I got called "Vampyr" by absolutely EVERYONE. Even people I didn't personally know or have never even spoken to. Some were my seniors, others my juniors. There was a sort of "legend" of my person going all around the school and I was labeled as a goth with basically no effort. Not that I wasn't, but I couldn't express it too much visually due to the norms (they just really got to know it in a few field trips we had). I took some liberties with crucifixes and rings, since its a catholic school, but I wasn't even the odd ball. There were people trying way harder than I did, doing bold make-up and even bolder accessories (most of them got severely punished, but I REALLY looked up to those people and admired them).
However, I usually joke around that no matter what I wear, my soul is fully goth. So I guess it was just what you said, the music, the literature, the morbid taste and the excitement for the unknown paired with timeless interests really do create something that's unique way beyond fashion. Of course I enjoyed the rumors and never got offended by them - instead, I added to the mess with mischievous false bits of my "immortal life" whenever someone was brave enough to disturb my reading time at the chapel.
My point is: By experience, while fashion is really something important (that I'm trying to reconnect to and reforge my identity), who you are is so much more than that. An aesthetic without content is just a pretty empty shell. While I never experienced (or rather, noticed/cared) gate keeping, I see myself as the "I do what I want and I don't care if it's enough or not" and ignore everything else. This was always the sole advise I shared for the people that wanted to be like me when I was younger.
My BF only just recently clicked after 5 years I’m goth. I appreciate the vid, I’ve been feeling the weird vibes as of late and I’m glad I’m not alone on that.
Enjoy my reflection of my own experience over the years:
Even as a kid my dad especially knew I’d be goth eventually, since I liked so much in the subculture without realizing it, and as a metal head himself it was only fair of him to guess I was about to spin the wheel for what alt flavor I’d get😂. You’d never guess he was alt since dresses like a grill dad, but he taught me to blacksmith, how to crush my friends at any arcade game, basket weaving (the man once wove an entire crib he’s fantastic at it) and to be open to try anything. My house may not be that dark and I’m having skin problems so I can’t do my makeup rn but 99% of my life has always been goth and alt. My dad installed subwoofers in an old truck and we love to go on long drives to share and blast music, be it Mongolian Folk Rock, Metal, Scandinavian Viking Chants, or my Goth and Ethereal music, when I visit❤The man has taken me to every concert I’ve been to this day even as I’m grown and move out, be it the rock, ethereal, metal or even Hatsune Miku, he’s been front row VIP with me every time. I have 2 very fluffy cats, a flame point ragdoll and a grey tabby who sheds like no cat I’ve seen before, so y’all can catch my drift why my aesthetic doesn’t read goth on the surface and I’ve been the victim of those fashion goths. I’m not sorry I refuse to banish my feline friends from parts of the house besides my plant room, especially since my dad taught me you don’t need to look a certain way to enjoy something you love or to fit into a sub genre. A cute final tangent for y’all is that my oldest kitty has anxiety issues and his favorite hoodie makes him look like a pumpkin bat and it helps him feel less anxious and look absolutely adorable 💖
It sounds like you grew up in a really fun and interesting environment! It's great that your father instilled in you that you don't need to look a certain way just to fit in and to really explore and be yourself. There's so much stress in just growing up in general that when you add the addition of having to look a certain way just to fit in, it takes away from learning and discovering who you are as a person.
Thank you Angela for always being there for the baby bats. Your videos really helped me progress from a baby bat to my true goth form. I’ve started to gather my own little colony of baby bats and you’re the first reference I give them when they ask about what one can strive to be as an elder goth. You’re incredible and I can’t thank you enough
🖤🖤🖤
I think it's sad that we need discuss "You don't look goth enough" still.
Cause I agree, you should be able be yourself and look the way you self want. It's the music that counts!
Most of week nowadays I look comfy goth, cause I go up 4 am. Need get my breakfast (had a Gastric Bypass Surgery for 10 months ago, so I need eat meals many times a day), so I can take my coffee when I am at work before shift start. Plus noway I would go up earlier to add more than mascara to my face! Way too tired.
Haha, did remember that "shine up status" before heading out to the clubs with friends. It was so fun back then. And we had so many different looks too. No one judged the others for their looks. Myself choosed style after mood or what I liked.
When it comes to food in 90s... my family only went for Chinese or pizza. Not sure what else we got. But our town is small, so you needed travel to Gothenburg for more options (as Indian, Greek and more).
Today we have so many different type of restaurants.
Thanks for another great video and you look gorgeous Angela! Stay safe and have a great week beautiful 🦇🖤🖤🖤🖤🦇
Exactly my dearest friend. Honestly the entire subculture should be well beyond the whole "Well such & such isn't really Goth enough" mind stranded debate by now. Another spot on post, as per always.🦇🖤🕸🎃
@@He_Loves_Horror agree Brandon.
@@Sanniz Indeed my good friend. It's why I'm also still a Misanthrope. Sure, I adore sub culture's in a sense. However, I can't take many going on & on about the same things constantly sometimes. I'm also apart of the growing number that, outside of RUclips, I don't use social media sites because I'm sure they're a massive waste of time. To each their own, though.
@@He_Loves_Horror awww... I do use social media, but just a few. And I do avoid Facebook, never had it.
reminds me when I was on reddit, I explained to them that I am Goth and traditional but open christian in some way and immediately I was not considered Goth because Goth and being Traditonal were not compatible but I say who cares, it's about music and finished, but I forgot in which time we live ;-;
I guess what I said might not fitting to the topic but I still wanted to say it
Reddit is the very definition of failure.
I'm the same. I've actually had quite a bit of an overly long look on RUclips. And I actually found some similar Goths that are like me (a Catholic though I don't attend mass and I'm not a Far Right though I am more or less a Right-Leaning Libertarian). Last week I found a video called "Gasp...there are Goths that are conservative?!" by a user named Jay Sector, if you're interested. Indeed: We're a music-based subculture first as well. Trad Goth fashion and the whole "aesthetic" really comes afterwards.🦇🖤🕸🎃
@@Dalthos2Reddit is a cesspool.
Same thing happened to me except on the punk subreddit. I proudly and without caring spoke about my views and such and I got denigrated and voted down into oblivion because having a opinion that's not left wing, socialist, communist , or whatever the majority views are aren't punk because punk has always been known for people who share a majority view while being on a website owned by Advance Publications, a company owned by the newman family who are billionaires. Gotta eat the rich while using services they own.
@@IXINOSIS My contempt for redditors stems from my status as a landlord. Their sense of entitlement to free housing on someone else's dime is revolting. It is one thing to make intelligent criticisms of a bad landlord, making intelligent arguments for tenant rights or correctly expressing frustration at the ownership barrier excluding people who are approved for an 1800 rent but not a 1200 mortgage. These are legitimate criticisms that can be intelligently discussed. It is another thing to hate landlords categorically and demand that I put a roof over their heads on my dime. They ban and silence anyone who discusses the matters intelligently so they can have their cringey hugbox.
Thank you for saying this at 6:15
The way we perceive the world is the foundation for everything else in the culture and no one can tell me otherwise.
Thanks for posting this. Not really active in the subculture, I was genuinely confused on the relationship of the music to the fashion and this video has helped clear that up.
As always, acute awareness of the situations surrounding the subculture. The acceptance I felt in online communities during 2000-2003 did a wonder on my feelings of belonging. I had been the weird kid who loved dark spooky stuff. Like the discerning person, my first big crush was Carolyn Jones and then Cassandra Peterson. But no one really existed in my small Texas town where I felt comfortable being myself. And now to see online spaces becoming more inundated with the worst kind of gatekeeping, it makes my little withered heart weep. I've never felt comfortable dressing how I want to but that's a body dysmorphia issue. But no one made me feel less because I didn't sew my own clothes from Yester Years Retro Clothes Emporium. Not back then anyway. Finding community through Bella Morte and Voltaire and The Cruxshadows fans.
thanks, i thoroughly enjoyed this. i'm just alternative. love goth and metal yup. i don't thnk people would be able to tell on most days but i would fit in non the less. this was a lot of fun to listen to. i loved the comment about us being open-minded yup yup so true
Hi Angela,
Thanks for this video and enjoyed it very much. I can't wait to watch more
Its kinda the reason i stopped being goth in 1998 was i saw that if i wasn't spending a certain dollar amount i got the same judgement i got from the preps and jocks , and i slowly realized no matter what click , group , or culture theres always a bunch of shallow douchers , amd theres genuinely awesome people in all groups , styles and cultures, ya just got to weed them out thats the problem and in general , most people just suck.
The only way to "stop being Goth" is to stop listening to the music, since it is a music based subculture.....
So you stopped listening to Goth music?
@@thiscorrosion3843 hell no , I make metal and goth music , just don't dress like it in public I don't go out , at all I live in the desert so we don't have goth clubs here in Bakersfield. Still love goth music , style and aesthetic, love Halloween love paranormal and spiritual vibes so no goth for life chico or chica
@@dust17111 that's fair! The Goth scene where I live is massive, and the people are incredible.
@@0therM0ther.01 i think ya missed my point chica
"Our kind" are usually more accepting of others, esp ppl that are "like" us. Its sad some of us judge others on how they dress, awesome video
We've all at some point experienced judgement, bullying and being shut out so we know what it feels like. A lot of empathy comes along with it.
You look STUNNING!! That dress is BEAUTIFUL!! As usual, I love your necklace.
For us in the Alt/Goth/Metal scene in Nelson, New Zealand in the 1990's the food we got into which was new was Turkish kebabs! They were sooo good...especially if you had the munchies. lol Fantastic video though Angela, you articulate this stuff so well. :)
I was bullied so heavily by a bunch of racist suburban goths, we moved from NYC to ATL when ATL literally wasn’t shit, it has actually scarred me for life. I didn’t realize this until later when I had a lot of social issues I wasn’t born with and was trying to fix it. This was back in the day though. Anyway I think it’s cool that you make these videos to kind of guide younger people and make them not feel as badly or lost, I know a lot of people blame the internet for a lot but I’m so glad for it
I hate that this kind of thing happens. I'm hoping that you were able to move away from the area that you were mistreated. I hate that there is this stereotype of goth being the thing that weird white kids do because we're just such a multicultural community, it's just not true. When you have that kind of stereotype floating around it makes people of color who are also interested in goth feel like it's something they're not allowed to be part of which could not be further from the truth.
Damn, girl! Your story about the collar in summer school gave me flashbacks! I went through a lot of the same type of shit and got told I was asking for it by being different all the time! No repercussions for their actions and I was told to stop provoking them with my attire. You get it. Not many people get it anymore. I'm glad we've moved away from that, but it's also frustrating when you do talk about those things and how much you had to endure if you wanted to express yourself in spite of those people and others just don't understand why you would even bother.
"what do you do, just put on a wedding dress and spin around?"
Well if we're going by your one YT short from a while back about what goth dancing looks like to non goths whilst in a white dress... he might be on to something lol
It's not THAT far off but this is before we became more open minded to the color white. His comment was ahead of its time.
@@angelabenedictDracula’s brides!
16:23 Is that you? You wee self was cute. :) Baby bat!
Yes, that was me! 🖤 Thank you!
My impression was that the "goth look" served as an "identifier" for entrance into goth clubs etc back in the day. Part of this is the atmosphere being different in goth clubs. It's not the normal "cattle market" , it's generally accepting and "safe". How did you determine the type of people to enter the club to keep that? Answer was "dress code". Due to that "safety" people could dress up, felt comfortable doing so and loved doing so. Goth look 365 days of the year has, in my opinion, always been only a portion within the goth movement despite what social media seems to point to. Let's face reality, holding down certain kinds of jobs often requires compromise. Unlike some other subcultures, "goth" isn't anti-education and many long term goths are lawyers, doctors, care home workers, teachers etc.
To baby bats I would recommend the following when it come to "goth fashion".. look at some videos of festivals on YT. Festivals such as Mera Luna, Amphi Festival and Wave Gotik Treffen (all in Germany). You'll see the You Tubers and the extremes in the foreground being the focus. However take a look at the people in the background as these are what the majority of people look like and what they wear.
Can't stress one thing enough. Go to goth festivals etc and the two words commonly use to describe the festival.. "family" and "acceptance". Anyone judging others should remember that. Music may underpin the subculture and provide the common theme. In my experience in both the UK and Germany, community based on acceptance is what made the subculture.
Before social media and things that trend, it was definitely a way that we could spot other goths. Fashion was a form of self-expression within the community and it still is. Nowadays, you can't really tell. There are a lot of people who will like to dress the part but aesthetic is where it ends. Because they're listening to things like lil peep, Korn and Deftones and their entire identity is their look.
Everything you talked about here is absolutely true and I’m glad that you take the time to explain the things that happened many decades ago. This way baby 🦇🦇s can truly understand every aspect of the goth world 🖤
19:10 THIS as someone more in the metal scene this is so important. I occasionally get called out as an elitist because I am simply correcting their information and get hostile with me
Exactly! All you're really trying to do is help them. You've noticed that they got something wrong so you want to correct them so they have the proper information. People get so offended when you correct them They just come out sling in those words gatekeeper and elitist like a weapon.
I'm soo much older than everyone here and not a goth on outside.
I'm 69 years old and live in Philadelphia pa USA.
I used to go to every " punk rock "
Show available within range.
I would drive to New York city on wim to see a band at CBGB'S or mud club.
There was a few more but they were much more commercial venues.
In Philadelphia we had the " HOT CLUB"
" THE EAST SIDE CLUB" THE KENNEL CLUB " " THE LOVE BAR"
in New Jersey it was " TRENTON CITY GARDENS "
I was lucky enough to meet with some of the bands before the show.
My favorite person was Peter Murphy.
I talked with him about very normal stuff before his first show in Philadelphia. " BAUHAUS"
at the EAST SIDE CLUB.
I had no ties to CLUB or music scene and my conversations with him were " normal we hit it off as friends.
I did see and hang out with him a few times after
I was surprised he could remember my name & everything we spoke about even after fame hit him big.
When i went to NEW YORK nobody there wanted to know the " fans"
The least friendly people were at CBGB'S.
The Trenton city gardens "DJ" would let the band stay at his home.
I actually stayed there with several band's.
The last show I went to there was " nirvana "
Today there is nothing available like the music scene in 1976 thru 1985
That is sad . It's diffrent when you see a band in a small home with 60 people.
I remember going to Philadelphia ZOO concert with "TALKING HEADS"
they made it big and changed to " NEW WAVE" sell out band.
Lol I was so interested in your message I didn't even notice the sound
I'm glad! I was so upset when I noticed I got more than halfway through the video with the sound switched to a different device.
As an elder alternative person, born in 1960 and from a very small village, being able to express one’s individuality was difficult generally and if you did manage to pull something off, brought ridicule!
It wasn’t until I moved to the city in my 20’s that I finally found my people!
But, I still couldn’t fly 24/7 as I had a very corporate job! So it was only when I used to go out at the weekend could I really be myself and felt comfortable! Now I’m 64 and STILL in that corporate job! However as I’m in my last 2 years I have started to express the real me! I thought, what’s the worst they can do?
And guess what? Nothing has happened! I’m just allowed to get on with “my thing” and be a bit unique and different. It doesn’t make me any less productive or professional!
Suppressing who you really are is painful and stressful, I’m glad I finally found my courage!
I'm glad you were able to find your courage as well. It's incredibly sad and frustrating when you want to express yourself but you're being stifled in some way and can't.
I remember being younger in the 2000s and falling in love with gothic/darkly inclined everything. At the time I was the only person i knew who liked anything like that because i always kept my interests to myself. I was also at my most creative, happy, and internally understood self. I felt SO good. It wasnt until my early teenhood that i learned that people heavily categorized alternative people and fashion. I remember going from feeling like i knew who i was to questioning myself 24/7 and not feeling good in my own skin, especially feeling ugly because i no longer "looked the part." Im in my mid 20s now and i can say im slowly crawling back out of that self loathing pit into a much more confident and beautiful (inside and out) alternative woman. This video and the comments helped tremendously 🖤🖤🖤
I'm glad to see that the thing that attracted you to it has begun to draw you back in. It's really sad when insecurities and self-confidence come into play which whether you do it advertently or not, it forces you to kind of suppress that side of yourself. I'm glad that you got your confidence back.
I always like the video snippets that are added to the videos Angela put out....
That's terrible that people were treated that way! I wore a collar and choke chain in the early 2000s but I'm a cis male. So I just got people talking shit since i was trying to stay out of trouble (used to fight a lot before finding the scene) and I was dressed more extreme with fishnets and combat boots. At the time I always wore a black leather trenchcoat to highschool. Outside of highschool a girl who looked like she was goth grabbed my chain without any prior consent or conversation. Granted she very was attractive and I was nineteen at the time but still, consent.
To be fair to your friend's question, we do spin around in the Goth clubs wearing dresses that could resemble a wedding dress. He wasn't too far off in his assumptions, haha.
At the time the way he described it just sounded so off. He was imagining us walking into a sports bar, wearing wedding dresses and just spinning to whatever's on the jukebox lol. However, in the right context I would totally rock that wedding dress and just spin.
I know a lot of chicken strip goths.
Kids menu goths for the win!
@@angelabenedictTrue! I knew goths that ate the kids menu to save money or they were dieting. :)
In my scene, Goths eat healthy and take care of ourselves. We care about how we look, and we take pride in being classy with our food, etc.
I got some friends in the goth scene, I really dig the aesthetic, but myself, I am not into the music, just a bit dark wave, and I am in general more colourful too.
You're absolutely right with the judgemental surrounding and the openness of the scene, I didn't want to stand out in school, so I was a normie.
In the end of the 90s, being different was a bit harder, the level of acceptance was way lower, I was borderline weird because I liked computers and pen and paper rpg, today, this is mainstream, in addition to the usual stuff like pop music and sports.
So I was quite happy to be mostly accepted by my goth friends at that time, even I put relatively low effort in my outfits when going to parties😅 Tuxedo pants, red suspenders and my grandfathers top hat had to be enough 😊
this video gave me more hope for my decision to be in the subculture also this subculture helped me learn to see myself and find London after midnight, my favorite band
We're a community. Your decision to stick around and actually go and see London after midnight live, you're not only supporting the band You're supporting the scene. That's what keeps this thing alive is not only supporting each other in ways to encourage them but supporting the nights, supporting the bands. I hope you have an amazing time!
Oh, your story about the dog leash reminded me of a kid when I was in elementary school that used to mock the shit out of me when I started wearing "weird stuff". I don't really remember anything in particular, but it was close to 2006/7 and I used to hear very aggressive satanic music because I was feeling more aggressive overall and expressed myself less tame than ever (I wasn't even a fully fledged goth at that specific point, my deal was entirely black metal). And there was this boy, oddly also in a gym class, that was touching my things and throwing the ball at my face. I told him once "I'll push you down the stairs" and he kept going.
Well, guess who didn't show up the next day due to a broken arm? I had to go the catholic school after the incident. By the way, I don't blame the music AT ALL. I was in a very complicated place mentally and that was really bound to happen anyway, since I had no self control at all.
Dear Angela, I am a goth girl , but I was "practicing solo" for a long time. By the time I felt a little lost and I wanted to meet some soulmates. I tried to find a circle of persons, I could join . That was a nightmare ! Those guys were so intolerant, they blamed me for being a quite curvy girl and they showed me, that they don´t accept me. It hurted me very badly. Have "real goths" to be skinny or anorectic ? I still wanna find my goth tribe, but that experience traumatized me that much , that I never tried after .I love your enouraging vids about all things goth !
Really good information in this video. Keep trying to help out as many people as possible in the right way.
I kind of got outcast gen-x and millenials getting persecuted by the cliques and social norms of middle through highschool now posing as alternative/goth gatekeepers towards baby-bats, who and what are they to have invested the need to meddle with the current youth goth subculture? Or is it their kids being little shyte's highjacking the subculture towards a vapid scene dark age? Well done for uplifting and warning those whom want to commit to the Goth Katas into an uncertain future.
It's kind of the fact that the cliques of our era who mocked and bullied us for being alternative/goth are the same ones who are now dressing Exactly like us but are now mocking and bullying young goths because they're Not dressing goth enough for their standards. So just like those high school cliques would ridicule anybody that didn't have the name brands or dressed in an unpopular way, they're applying that same mentality to bully goths out of their own community by masquerading as them.
Love the video but now I really want to put on a wedding dress and spin around at the club😂
Do it!! 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤
So I’ve floated around subcultures for a while and find myself being my own kind of person but I still enjoy goth music. I’ve noticed this isn’t just a thing for goths and emos and punks but with SKATEBOARDERS TOO. I recently took up skateboarding and was talking to my bf about how I never see anyone doing it anymore and he says it’s because all the elder pros are kinda jerks at the skateparks and kinda elitists. I don’t think that’s right to do in any subculture and I do wish I had someone like you growing up to tell me it’s not all or nothing ❤
Angela, I enjoy listening to your channel and thoughts on views of goth subculture. I agree with a lot of the views to educate. But I also I think about this video, the more I realize how insane that is inside the subculture. "some" goths verbally attacking other goths online who are new or are baby bats, It makes zero sense. I've never experienced this in real life. To the point of someone coming up to me worried about what clothes i'm wearing or not wearing as and adult. 90% of everyone is way into there own lives and things going on to pay attention to that. And I've left my home in white make up and all black on many times over. I think it being 2024, everyone has so much more going on to be concerned with aesthetics. I've always said aesthetic is a way to express ones self, but not necessary to be apart of a subculture.
This was very wholesome advice about just being yourself 😊 Ty! Inspired me to keep curious and exploring ❤
Gypsy 83 (a film) has had a small, but odd influence, propagating a "Stevie Nicks is goth" idea 😄
I remember a lot of goths in the '90s who either hailed from the '80s or their parents were teenagers in the '70s - some of them whereas they didn't consider Stevie Nicks, Goth - she would certainly be on their rotation and even some aesthetic inspo.
I have that film on DVD. I love it, and watch it every year.
@@Anonymous-wb3nz dvd owner too. Gypsy Vale resonates with my Anima a lot. And it's not every day I hear somebody reference Poppy Z Brite!
@@grendelhvs nice!
@@0therM0ther.01 I was intimately familiar with a particular scene, before I saw the whole movie 😄🤭
17:00 Wow. I grew up in a small town and wore collars all the time and never had that happen.
Luck of the draw I guess. The two guys who had done that to me were actually alternative as well. They were metalheads.
@@angelabenedict Wow, that’s even worse. All the Metalheads I knew were generally nice people. :(
I remember when I was in high school, I was one of the only goth kids around. There were other people who were more alternative. But really just a few. I don’t ever remember being picked on for it. I was picked on for being the weird kid.
That dog collar story reminds me of my own stories of growing up and makes me mad thinking about it. Like mind your own business and leave people be.
I have to go back and watch your dyi tutorials again. I have a T-shirt I want to transform but I'll get a crappy one to practice on first.
I hope you have a great week. ❤️
What do kids into Subcultures eat? Usually fast food as it was cheap and open either going to or coming back from a show.
I do agree that most people who will greatly change their appearance would be more open to try different foods. That said what I remember about Goth in the 1990s was red wine, cocktails, and clove cigarette.🤔🐈⬛
I will admit I am Goth Adjacent and owned and wore lots of black but did not do makeup or frilly clothes. (Punk, Ska, Alt Country and Psychobilly fanatic here)
It’s a very strange space in this current era of goth when speaking in visual and fashion terms. You are still completely strange and “too much” for the normies and yet not “goth enough” for others deeply rooted in the idea of clothing being the end all be all. Having such a focus on labels for those that are new to the subculture just because they want to get it right is so daunting. I’m happy you push the idea of self express being important since we would never want to discourage baby bats. Truly we are, for the most part, a very open minded bunch since our threshold for weird is high. I personally love the “corporate” goth look for my everyday but events are where we can shine. Sort of like a prideful peacock but dark and jeweled out. Wonderful video as always. 🖤
В 00е не сталкивалась с гейткипингом, а сейчас после 17 лет в субкультуре узнала об этом на собственной шкуре. Людям не нравится, что я могу выглядеть и говорить не так, как они ожидают.
Wish we had more Indian food options in North Carolina. I hadn’t had it in years, haha!
Oh no! You're just going to have to come to New York and have it here.
Thanks for making all these awesome videos, im a babybat and honeslty theres not really any goth places near me so most of my interaction is online, ive been to a few places tho and those have been the best nights of my life
When I think back to my first times going to a club in the late 90s, it was both eye-opening and also a source of inspiration as to what was possible in terms of fashion.
I grew up in a small town where, apart from a local second-hand/thrift store, there was no real opportunity for me to get my hands on new outfits without getting creative.
Sure, mail order was a thing, but firstly, all that stuff was far too expensive and as we were piss-poor by today's standards, I would never have been able to afford it and secondly,
my mother would have sent every single parcel back in a heartbeat since she wouldn't allow me to dress goth anyway.
So no, for me it was never about showing off what I was wearing, but simply that I was finally able to express myself and to make this known to other people around me.
Your experience is so widely shared even today. Fortunately things are more readily available but the part about growing up in a small town and having parents who were heavily disapproving of your lifestyle and refused to allow you to dress in the way that you wanted.
I hear that sentiment shared so often by baby bats who truly want to express themselves and feel like they're living life in a costume because it's not them only to be ridiculed by fashion goths on TikTok, mocking them and dismissing their existence as a goth simply because of their attire. Even when they explain their situation they continually mock them and say if they truly wanted to, they would find a way. Are they going to pull money out of their asses? Perhaps give their parents a brain transplant?
The truth is, these people are coming from a place of privilege and not only can they not see things from a different perspective, they refuse to which also makes them entitled. Your connection to the community and your first true experience within it is so defining. It's like those moments where you truly find yourself, your place and you're so immersed in everything that you've been feeling for so long that it's just overwhelming. These other people are so shallow that they don't care to experience that for themselves, they would rather just take photos and feel superior. I often wonder that even if they did experience it, Are they too shallow to truly get it.
I couldn't agree more, and all of this had indeed contributed to my feeling that I didn't really belong to this subculture that I loved and still love so much.
You know, back then the clubs in the next major city were always a home away from home for me, places where you could have a good time, meet up with dear friends or simply to escape the dreariness of this small town, where everything outside of their arch-conservative mindset was met with nothing but suspicion and utter contempt.
Still, I couldn't get this strange comparison out of my mind: "There are they, in all their stunning outfits, beautiful make-up and hairdos, and here am I, a plain looking giraffe with my silly altered dresses in a pair of boots".
I nearly lost it when someone approached me once and asked where I got my clothes from; oh, I was fully expecting to be ridiculed for it, but they just said, "Cool. Wish I knew how to do that, but I can't sew for shit."
I’m a teen into alternative fashion (jfashion, cue the shrieks of cringe induced terror) and I’m so fascinated by the value differences between western jfashion circles and western goths, in jfashion circles, brand is EVRYTHING similar to how it is with the killstar goths, since it’s damn near impossible to find anything to match our style in western thrift stores and how closely styles are linked to brands that cultivated a particular image in comparison to the enormous wealth of influences in western goth fashion. I’ll bring up two specific things I’ve noticed that particularly bugged me, first, stemming from tiktok bc ofc it fucking did there’s an obsession with vintage Japanese brand fashion (think hysteric glamor or children’s clothes brands like mezzo piano or angel blue) to a point where anything with one of these logos could sell for ridiculous amount of money, it feels like a poignant manifestation of how otaku culture and interest in Japanese pop culture’s negative tendency to be incredulously materialistic and wasteful with an awful amount of importance being placed on merchandising, and how people’s identities are getting wrapped up in a superiority complex of how they’re so much more… cultured i guess? Because they’re able to accumulate branded merchandising for fashion lines, fiction, music artists etc, so much more could be said about this, but I find the goth subculture to be way less materialistic which I really appreciate, and to add on that, for the specific jfashion I’m interested in, Lolita fashion, brand is even more worshipped, people’s belonging to the subculture is conflated with how much they’re able to shell on specific Japanese brands instead of how well they can coordinate an outfit, how much appreciation they have for the fashion, or how much they’ve researched it, and the bullying of others for not affording or wearing brand items is viscous. Seeing how thrift bases goth fashion is truly inspires me. I plan on investing much more into goth fashion as I get older and more independent since my only stipulation to not delving into it is because I’m afraid of my parents’ reactions, them thinking less of me or forcing me to wear normie clothes when I go out, but I can’t be bothered anymore, I love the culture too much, there’s so much depth and so many people, so many books, so many artists I’d love to create a deeper connection with through the subculture by immersing myself in the fashion and music, film and literature etc that no one else’s opinions could bring me down. Thank you so much for being such an awe inspiring figure for amants of the subculture like me!
Let me guess. You listen to rap. Sad.
Why would you think listening to rap is Sad? Idk if I understand the other response but if they’re saying something is wrong bc of another interest, they missed the point of the video. You can enjoy more than one thing at time. Lolita Fashion and JFashion are byproducts of the West from the 90’s and 80’s Goth and Punk scenes respectively with their own local twists on it. Acid Black Cherry, Golden Bomber, Versailles, are all staples of both the Goth and Lolita scene in Japan, which tie closely with rap over there. The point was it’s not a visual or rigid box, it’s a culture rooted in music and creative self expression which will fundamentally look different for everyone with some similarities shining through
There's nothing wrong with liking jfashion and still wanting to get involved in the goth scene. As long as you enjoy the music, literature, and art aspects of the subculture, you'll be welcomed with open arms. Goth is probably the most accepting subculture out there, just don't be obnoxious and spread misinformation is all we ask.
I'm going to go on a tangent about jfashion here. I've been active in the lolita community for 20+ years. I'm from way way back in the livejournal days when the fashion was extremely niche in the west. Trust me when I say that it was so much more elitist back then. Where to even begin..
For starters, We didn't have inclusive sizing from brands like today (Shoutout to Metamorphose, Atelier Pierrot, and ETC) so if you were a US 14 or above, good luck with finding a JSK to cover your dump truck ass, fatty. Better learn how to sew because handmade was the only option. Brand was coveted as a status symbol due to how hard it was to acquire without taking an expensive trip to Japan (this was when the Yen wasn't weak btw.) or using complicated international mail order forms, shopping services were in their infancy and limited to FromJapan and Tenso. Bodyline was hit or miss. Taobao? Didn't exist, we had Milanoo out there scamming newbie lolitas into buying horrible lace monster atrocities that made the Amazon "And Romeo replica" look good in comparison. Bullying was not only prevalent but it was encouraged via 4chan's /cgl/ board and livejournal communities like Visual_fucks, lolita_fucks, and lolita_secrets.
I'm not going to sugar coat it for you, EGL has always been materialistic and shallow, from the very moment it spawned on this side of the internet. "But lolitas are supposed to be lovelies." was a toxic meme used to discourage newbies from straying too far from the rules. Yes, lolita is a fashion that has rules. And they were much stricter back in the day. You did not want to be called an "Ita". To be called ita was to be called a failure because your coord was so sucky that it made others cringe. You had to have a thick skin just in case someone from your comm was a snake and posted your coord to the "ita thread" on /cgl/ or worse, made a lolita secrets post about you. I remember a year or two ago, someone tried to revive lolita secrets on neocities and the community as a whole shut that shit down quick, as they should.
I am so glad the community for the most part isn't like the lolita community I experienced in the 00s and early '10s and that we're finally starting to embrace not only indie and handmade but genuine experimentation when it comes to coords, something that the western EGL scene often lacked compared to the Japanese lolitas. Yes, brand whores will always be a thing in this fashion but they're more or less a dying breed since lolita as a fashion is hanging on for dear life to stay relevant, like most of the original Harajuku fashions in Japan. So what I'm trying to say is don't be put off by jfashion because of brand snobbery. Hell, I wasn't even able to afford brand on the regular until I was in my mid twenties with a stable job. Go out there, find yourself a local lolita community, participate in swap meets or conventions specifically for Jfashion if you're able to. I promise you, its not as horrible as it seems online. You'll find your people and when you do you'll ask yourself why you didn't get involved sooner. Have fun with it, fashion is meant to be fun.
I think a lot of people online don't understand the goth isn't just an "aesthetic." It's a sub-culture and a community. They're only focused on the visual, but the way people in the sub-culture dress is just an outward representation/expression of the music
The majority of people that have this temperament are people who are very shallow. They have no depth nor do they have any desire to see if they have any hidden depth. Talents, hobbies anything. They're common catchphrase is 'It ain't that deep'. They're very visually driven And because they have no depth, they rely on aesthetic to basically define who they are cuz it's all they have. Unfortunately, they try to enforce this mindset on baby bats who strive for more and confuse them.
one of my favorite channels!! i learn so much from you!!❤🎉
I'm so glad! 🖤🦇🕸️🕷️
I'm the one over here who is a picky eater. 😂😂 I have tried various things but, i am the one who will order the same tning every time i go to certain restaurants. 🤷🏻♀️ I usually just say I know what I like. 😂 keep doing these videos! Its sad that it's needed. I tend to lean more into comfy goth in the horrible summer here in the south.
im a baby bat and i rarely "dress goth". i usually wear tee shirts with skirts and tons of accessories, i do put my little goth spin to it but its not what is usually considered goth. when i do dress super gothic its usually because i was listening to that music while getting dressed and it made me want to dress like that. to me goth fashion is about expressing yourself so the whole idea that theres only one way to dress seems so silly.
What you said really does help solidify the fact that we really are a subculture based in music. The fact that you are who you are but still find yourself inspired and kind of activated to want to explore and experiment when you're listening to the music just proves that it's part of who you are.
Im a goth that wears camo pants the majority of my clothes is black and more comfortable in my alt style.
The thing too is, dressing up in all gothed out clothing and make up takes time and energy. I have depression. I just don't always have that sort of energy. A lot of my goth outfits consist of a band t-shirt and black jeans with maybe some dark lipgloss (if any make up at all). I'm still goth. I still go to all the hang outs and listen to the music, and participate in the culture. But if you saw me in the street you would probably never guess it.
👏 This video was excellent, I just finished watching and the advice you gave was so good and something people really need to hear right now.
It's also really good advice even if someone isn't goth or part of a subculture, people are happier when they can be themselves and express who they truiy are and ultimately, I think that's a positive thing for everyone.
Awesome work.
I definitely agree that some of those TikTok/fashion goths give me popular kid vibes.
I remember in the 90s when I was 12/13, my alt friend and I had jnco pants. He gave me a pair, and we wore them to school on the same day, and the "popular kids" bullied us for it. Told us how ugly they were. It was probably 4 months later they became super popular and then they were wearing the very pants they hated, so of course because I couldn't shut my mouth I mocked then using the same words they used on me. It felt like these are the types of people who will wear anything to be "popular" and get attention even if they don't like it. I remember kids getting bullied for wearing shoes from Payless and not Nike's. For not having Abercrombie and Fitch. I remember at like 14, I bought an A&F shirt because I didn't want to be bullied it was the only one I thought was OK, a black tank with red flames on it. Even though I had been listening to goth music for a long time I didn't try dressing goth until after I made my first group of goth friends and their expression made me want to make my own goth look because it was beautiful and I honestly never found popular clothing beautiful.
So, once I did, I never went back. I was bullied every day growing up in NYC radom adults yelling at a teen for looking like a freak. I hung out with the goths, punks, metalheads, LGBTQ, skaters, because they didn't bully me for being goth and looking goth. I do wonder sometimes if we were back in the 90s and goth wasn't popular again, how many of these fashion goths and TikTokers would drop the goth look for A&F or whatever else was popular. Because even though we had to overcome the bullying and stick with what we loved. We knew the people who were goth did it because they loved the goth scene and not just for views and being popular/trendy. In that sense, it was easier to find genuine goths and information about the scene. If you saw another goth in the street. They were another goth, and usually, we would always acknowledge each other. If you spoke to them, it was usually about clubs and music and sometimes clothing if they were wearing something fantastic, but music and events were always number one.
I myself don't want to lose that. I have been judged as an elder goth for not having enough Killstar. I find it ridiculous as my firstborn is older than Killstar is. I honestly only own 3 things from Killstar. A bathing suit, a skull bag, and a laptop style bag. I don't own anything else because I don't care to. To top it off, in my opinion, their clothing tends to be more horoscope and witchy. Some people love that style. I am not into that and I am not going to force myself to be because TikTokers are saying that this is what you need to wear to be goth. It's that same trend. You're not cool unless you wear this brand. If someone says to me "woh where did you get your stuff?" It will be a hodge podge of things I like. Sometimes, I will take things apart that came from one item I bought and use it with another just because I think it looks cool together. I will tell people what everything is, and they could go out and buy it, but they would be being like 6 different things to create what I assume they think it one outfit they can just get as is, but that is how goths always uses to do stuff. It might have been 💯% DIY, and they may tell you what it is, but if you wanted it, you had to get the stuff and do it yourself.
I love goth fashion myself, and I love sometimes that it is easier to get, but I don't love the people who make it a contest about who has what. I don't need the goth "popularity contest".
As a Brit, I can confirm a love of Indian food, especially back in the 90s. Still love a curry night even now.
My abusive ex forever ago tried to tell me that Goth was a phase & to grow up. I've been goth since I was a teen in the 90's. And proud to still be goth today. My aesthetic has evolved over the years & I have 4 looks now. But I'm happy with them & my bedroom legit makes even my normie friends jealous. I also don't understand how one "makes a mistake" in being Gothic since it's an entire genre & form of self expression. I agree to give everyone grace when it comes to discovering who you truly are.
I think one universal goth experience is getting barked at on the street 😭
I like watching these. So cool. I'm 53. Maybe I've been goth for the 30+ years and never knew. I have been attracted to the styles since the late 80's early 90's at least. I wore metal band shirts, black cowboy boots get some kind of chain to put around at least 1 boot. People seem to pick on those who are different from what some consider the normal people. I got it myself the question I used to get asked especially when I was younger is why do I dress like that. My response usually was because I like it. Sometimes people would wanna fight me. They said because it seemed like I was acting arrogant by the way I dressed. I never got that line. I still don't. I love these videos. Being yourself, true to yourself 👍
Love your videos
Thank you!
This is exactly why I no longer ascribe to any specific style or subculture, not even “normie” culture. I grew tired of feeling that I had to fit a certain mold and only enjoy certain things or else I’d face judgment for being “fake” or “not ____ enough”. It’s easier to just do my own thing and not try to fit in anywhere. I will always dress differently from the norm and listen to music and enjoy art beyond what is popular, but it never fits neatly into any category of “alternative subculture”. I like elements of multiple different subcultures and eras in history and I combine them all because I like all of them.
I always find it really frustrating whenever I go out clubbing and I see some Normies and they basically assume I’m going to do something deviant or go to some strange private sex party and not just dance and listen to music just because the way i dress 😂.
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6:00 NO, Goth is always about the music. Everything is secondary. There's nothing wrong with judging, especially when not knowing the bands and acts in the music we listen to. That's how a poser is revealed.
8:06 Exactly. Genuine people. That's all we ask from the Normies.
11:45 That's the other thing about the geners of our scene, confusion. Darkwave is not part of the Death or Goth rock. It's Coldwave. Which has had a resurgence thes past six years, like Twin Tribes, and She Past Away. Darkwave is synth originated, for example: Assemblage 23, Covenant, and The Cruxshadows, to name a few.
I have little interest in Goth rock. I never grew up in the 80s original goth culture. By 1989 new sounds were started to creep in. Industrial, Synthpop, EBM.... in a nut-shell.
Then the Record labels with their roster of bands: Wax Traxx, Nothing, Sub-Pop, and Metropolis records. This is the sound grew up with in the rest of the 1990s. In the Early 1990s we were called "new wavers" still by normies, at least in the region were I live. Around mid 1990s, 1995, the term Goth was finally appropriately, we started differentiate ourselves from the rest of club land.
I was 17 when Depeche Mode was my gate way sound drug that got me in the, eventually, Goth scene back in the fall of 1989. Then I became the resident Dj for it, at my club, 11 years later!
@@0therM0ther.01He used to run around in the front row kissing ladies’ hands.
I agree.
I tend to still wrap my goth in punk. But, food? That's just weird. We are people who have the same wants, needs as others.
I just really love your style. Being 5'11" I could never find anything in my size when I was young. Things were never long enough and I was too skinny back then to wear short things with leggings. I definitely love the macabre and horror for sure. I also wear a lot of black but I have never been able to wear what I'd really like. I look the most normal out of my Goth friends but they don't care!
Thank you! Sizes have become a lot more inclusive especially in terms of height, I remember a store when I lived in England called Long tall Sally. Do you find it easier to Get clothing nowadays?