Why Is It Hard For Goths?
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
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Had to wait 4 years before I could even entertain the idea of going to a Goth night. People complain all the time about the younger generation being chronically online but fail to realize that absolutely nothing is for them outside of the internet. Everything has to be centered around alcohol which is so odd. Now that I turned 21, I can finally go out and see the goth scene in the flesh for the first time since I became goth at 17. It sucks that this is the reality, but at least there's no more waiting.
Exactly! If they had a place to go, maybe they would go there but at the moment they're kind of restricted to online. Until they start implementing all ages or 18 plus events The best we can do is teach them how to house party like we did. The club center things around alcohol because that's how they make their money. The bar is where the money is made. If a person is going to approach a venue with a perspective event the owner of that place allows them to keep that space based upon how much money it brings them. The 21 and unders aren't drinking so they're buying drinks a lot less even if it is just a soda here and there. In the end it always boils down to money. Honestly, they should just charge more of a cover fee and try to make the money that way. I remember I went to this one teen club in Florida and the way that they circumvented this is they offered a lot of cocktails but they were all virgin. Like a sex on the beach, daiquiris.
yea, we barely have even that little here. just multitude of awful basic bars full of wife beaters and what I can only assume are small time criminals. not to mention everything is so expensive that you cant afford to be in there. 5,80 on average for just a beer.
not exactly my idea of a good time. at this point I dont even know what the average person of my age does side of work around here because we literally have nothing.
@@KossolaxtheForesworn There really isn't much other than school, work, or online spaces. There is hope though because the internet is constantly evolving and is nothing like how it was 10 or 15 years ago. Society has a good chance of swinging back as it tends to do. Maybe by the end of the 2020's we'll see more interesting bars opening up again.
Nightclubs are 18+ due to alcohol laws in most countries, not 21. I live in Germany, over 50 and still go clubbing where the age range is 18 - ancient. Festivals are another opportunity to mix. You have some which almost take over towns/cities for a weekend which mean you can dip your toes without being "enclosed" in something like a club. Look at some videos about Wave Gothic Treffen in Germany or the Whitby weekend in the UK, two examples I can think of where you could take parents to help get them to know the sort of people in the scene.
@@jasonledyard404 Whitby and WGT both now have an element of fancy dress with people wanting to participate with no links to the goth scene. Price you pay for access for all but still a good environment to dip people's toes in the water in my opinion. Key is to make the most of what exists now recognizing things do change. Grass was always greener looking back.
My entire experience with the subculture has been online. I grew up with the music and as a kid I was exposed to goth characters such as Thorn from Scooby Doo. I listened to the music from the age of at least 8 but I didn't dress the part until I was 14. Your channel has been a HUGE part of me feeling accepted as a baby bat. Even now at 22, I still feel like a baby bat. But I know I belong here and that as long as I have my music and this community, that goth will prevail through the age of social media.
It tends to be that way nowadays. I'm still getting used to it. I think a lot of the older goth community really got a good idea of what it's like for the under 21's after covid hit and we were put in the same position by way of integrating online. One day seemingly out of nowhere you won't feel like a babybat anymore. Once you're able to start heading out and attending events and be social you'll come into your own.
Definitely go to a music festival. You’ll find people there. Also maybe look to the punk scene. The punk scene is welcoming and cheap. You’ll find you might like their music too😊
@@xkaxsky.69 Goth music festivals have emerged as a good remedy to this. Going to take my daughter out to one this summer I think
I'm 50 years old, and "goth" was not even named "goth" before "goth" became a hugely commercial thing. It was "alternative" or "sub-culture." Just be true to yourself. You don't have to wear a costume to be a "real" goth. I find it quite funny when I walk into a Hot Topic with my child, and see all the baby goths looking at me like "who is this old man." I was goth before it was called goth. I've played in goth bands, and I've worn the costumes, but as I grow older it's more about what's on the inside more than what's on the outside. Just some advice from an ancient.
The biggest problem is that most towns have become bedroom communities. There's nowhere to GO to find people. In my town, if you want to go out and do something? You have to leave town. Movie theater? Next town over. Beach? That's a 90 minute drive on a good day. Mall goths? Yeah, no, that's an hour drive at best.
Yeah 😢
I remember being a kid in the early 2000s and seeing "mall goths" at the mall. I was really interested in how they dressed (bondage pants, platform boots) but I tried listening to the bands they had on their shirts like korn and marilyn manson and REALLY hated it. So I was actually super relieved when a few years later I learned that those aren't goth bands and you don't have to listen to them to be goth, and that the REAL goth music really resonated with me.
We shouldn't even be calling them Mall Goths. They are Metalheads.
Subcultures tend to be really lost on most everyday folks, cuz mainstream culture teaches us to embody and enforce such conformity. Every subculture has, beyond the superficial layers of image, its own particular ethos, which is arguably the most important aspect of it all. Mainstream culture can learn so much more than some fashion hacks from any scene, but i think the biggest takeaway is the value of not perpetuating such conformity, having more acceptance of the social fringes so we can foster more authenticity, lending to great mental health of individuals and the connective alike.
@@Anonymous-wb3nz as a metalhead, I disagree. Most metalheads wouldn't even consider those bands as metal. I like both bands, but I wouldn't call someone a metalhead if that is the type of music they listen to.
@@brynxiii9265 I'm unfamiliar with Metal, lol.
@@brynxiii9265 🫤😬😵💫 korn is metal, it’s numetal
You triggered a funny memories of mine when you said that people thought of goths as "witches or vampires" remember back in the day I was walking around the village on a weekend all clad in my black attire and some little girl walking towards me stops dead in her tracks and pointed at me and proclaims, "Look mommy...a WITCH!" I just had to laugh. Oh and then Phil Donahue had a show them of "How to tell if your child worships SATAN" and he described: does your child wear head to toe black (yes)....do they spend a lot of time alone in their room (yes) are they constantly writing in a black notebook (yes)....I was actually sitting across from my mother at this point and she is looking at me with a purely horrific look on her face! Didn't help things when I asked to paint my room black! Have a great evening :).
That's hilarious! Donahue was horrible back then for the fear mongering and getting alternative people branded as horrific things back then. Meanwhile, it's the ones in normal clothes you gotta watch out for!
@@angelabenedict My thoughts exactly! And ps: I didn't get to paint my room black....so I did the whole thing RED to which my brother proclaimed, Mom, Marrah's room looks like Hell....LITERALLY! My response, Less likely to see the blood splatter when I kill you! He walked away real quick!
Now that I’m 21 I got inducted into this goth/industrial night. They want to make it all ages and it’s hard honestly because the kids these days aren’t too interested in goth. Majority of the alt types goto hardcore or indie shows and those 2 scenes have a feud in my city.
This brought back so many wonderful memories. I started going to the all ages goth clubs in the mid 80s. Such a shame kids these days don't have them
We need to make them more of a thing again. It's just...How is the problem.
In the 90s, my friends and I hung out at the mall mainly because we were all poor trailer-park kids and didn't have cars. Also, it was one of the few places teenagers could go without having money. We were goths unlike the majority of people in those "mall goth nostalgia" posts. Like you said, that style was mostly the nu metal fans. Remember how easy it was to use a fake ID back then? I swear the thing could be peeling apart with visible typos and bouncers didn't care 😆
In 2019 my beloved and I started and all ages night, during the pandemic we decided to continue doing it online but now it has reborn it's also monthly and continues being all ages, we bring bands, cloth swap and vendors. It's 21 to drink but it's also all ages. We have an amazing observant staff that makes sure to keep everyone safe. We are pretty new still but our plan is to continue doing this for years to come until I have energy to do so!
You're out there doing the good work for the community! Your event is a prime example that it can be done, it can be done safely and there's no reason why other places shouldn't follow suit.
What city ?
we are in Inidiana - Indianapolis@@SirenASMR_
Yeah I miss the old goth nights.. 18 to enter, 21 to drink. I remember older goth friends sneaking me drinks. We had fun, good times.
As a Goth/Metalhead who's been a fan of Goth Rock and Metal for 14 years now I still go through hell for being Goth in public even though I'm almost 28.. people treat me ...differently, let's just say that. I don't even talk anymore or laugh that much. I can't relate to other Goths or Metalheads because they think they're more Goth or more Metal than me even though aesthetic wise I dress very punk, goth, and metal... It's cause me to deal with extreme isolation just because I can't relate or people won't except me.. I just stay in the shadows until I am gone..
That's terrible! Are these people young? This is at real life, in person events and not online?
@@angelabenedict Young, and old. In real life mainly. There are basically no Goths around here, and the Goths I have met were douche bags, or ignore me.. I'm also a guy.. when it comes to Goth Women they are subjected to the "gym bros" and other crazy misconceptions. Those girls aren't even real Goths most of them are e-girls.. if you mention Bauhaus, or She Past Away I'm pretty sure they'd be dumbfounded. I think when it comes to Goth guys we get bullied, beat up, wearing makeup or nail polish is "feminine".. I wear black and purple nail polish to..
Are there other Goths who love both Goth Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave etc.. but also love Death Metal, Progressive Metal etc?
Sorry for the long message, I appreciate your videos..
@@thelastdaybreathinginetern1385 Fellow goth and metalhead here! And I share your pain, I have zero goth friends and only a few friends that like metal so it gets lonely.
@@thelastdaybreathinginetern1385 hey there :)
@@thelastdaybreathinginetern1385 Metal + Goth forever! My personal darkness needs both Switchblade Symphony, and Cradle of Filth, to function properly.
Can I just say how utterly perfect your makeup looks here? I am transfixed!
Thank you so much! That means a lot coming from you, you always look flawless!
Thankfully the goth night in Nashville, fascination street, is 18+. It was my first ventures into the scene back when I was under 21. It brought me out from my baby bat phase and really helped me get super into goth music. I’m 24 now and it’s still 18+. And it continues to bring on the baby bats. It’s really helping solidify young people into the scene.
That's good that it's 18+. We need more of those out there.
I live next door in Georgia and have always wanted to make a trip to Nashville for a Fascination Street night… is it still worth making a trip for?
What is the scene like in Nashville ? I always wanted to check that city out . Seems like goths wouldn’t be welcomed there
A rich guy I went to high school with who used to be emo (when that was trendy) would call me and my friends “goth freaks,” and now I just found out he looks like a “Chad” but is dating a goth fashion/beauty influencer of 100k followers. There was a lot of complicated feelings with finding out about that, but it just goes to show how the goth aesthetic has become such a trend on social media that horrible guys like that will latch onto it because it’s cool now. She’s just a trophy to him. I wonder how she would feel to find out how he looked down on goths in high school.
Maybe she looked down on goths in high school too
its almost become this weird thing now where dude bros are obsessed with goth girls bc they have some freudian fetish going on which comes from a place of misogyny and sexual depravity. I think a lot of it comes from being brain washed by violent porn
the 18 and up and all ages of the 90's were amazing, we'd go to coffee after the club to wait till the buses started running. some of the funnest nights of my life. It's really a shame that kiddos don't get to experience this kinda thing anymore.
Tips for anyone who is newly 21 and wants to get a little saucy at the club.
For every shot or drink you get, grab a cup of water after it and dance it off. We have gotten plenty loaded at goth night but dancing and moving and walking around early and often helps keep it moving through you. The worst thing you can do is sit still for too long and take in a lot of booze, next thing you know you will go to stand up and drop like an anchor.
Don't leave your drink out of your site and if you set it down, keep your eyes firmly on it at all times. People might try to slip you something when you aren't looking.
My lady has a great system, she only does shots and water, no mixed drinks, no beer, no seltzers. She can do a shot and slam some water and hit the dance floor and maintain a healthy medium buzz without getting to heavy full of booze or sugar from sodas or tonics.
If you plan to drink, eat something at least an hour before you go out and after you get home from the club or on the way home from club. Your body will thank you for it in the morning.
Get a designated driver or call an uber or stick to public transit if you can. I used to catch the bus to the club and catch a cab or a ride from a friend on the way back.
Tip for smokers...If you are trying to make a new friend on the patio, a good ice breaker is asking someone for a light.
Great tips! I never trust my drink in a club and always have my hand over the top of it. They also make these little cozies that you can stick over the top of your drink. They look like a little shower caps for cups. It sucks that such a preventive measure must be taken but the measure must be taken because the threat unfortunately exists.
Unfortunately, when it comes to things like Ubers I don't trust them. I've heard a lot of horror stories with kidnappings, women getting assaulted etc by drivers and surprisingly Uber does nothing about it. Local cab companies tend to be the best bet when it comes to things like that because at least this person is employed with the cab company directly and know their employer on a face-to-face basis so this erases any severe threat of potential danger.
@@angelabenedict That's definitely worth thinking about. Its unfortunate how dangerous everything is these days. I have the whole make privilege that allows me to just take an Uber or Lyft without those kinds of concerns. Its awful that most women most of the time don't get to understand what a leisurely walk home at night feels like because they always have to be on the defensive for some psycho that might try to nab them in the dark.
For anyone in the Denver CO area: There is an underground music venue called 7th Circle that frequently has goth/punk/metal nights that feature local bands. They are all ages shows!
Hello, i want to say that your videos have been helping me to understand that I've always been goth, but because I didn't had room to explore my interest growing up I've been hiding my interest. Learning about the subculture online saved me from giving up on what I love. So thank you for sharing your voices out there with all of us. There's a club in the city I'm in and I finally feel ready to go and have fun out there ~
i always thought Mall goths were people who shopped at Hot Topic in the nineties. Someone somewhere felt the need for yet another label, even then, and hey presto: Mall Goth!
Straight edge goths!! 😁😁😁🖤
In florida where I live we have “The Castle” which is actually 18+! Althought a nightclub will never be for all ages, it’s good to know that one of the only goth places in our state manage to not be strictly drinking age and above.
That's great that you have that! I hope that more places follow suit. That's really what it was like in New York as well back in the '90s. It was 18 to enter and 21 to drink. I remember when I finally turned 18 and I can use my own ID, we went to visit Boston. There the clubs are 19 to enter in 21 to drink so I had to borrow one of my friends spare driver's licenses who had the same haircut/color as me and we also wore similar makeup. Worked like a freaking charm! But we also did have some all ages events here but they weren't goth exclusive. They alternative. There was voodoo lounge which had a bunch of different rooms One of them playing a mixture of Goth and industrial and there was also one called Battle of the bands which was in this little hole in the wall place in my town where the two local high schools got together and all local high school alternative bands played. There was obviously no alcohol but strangely enough even though we're all high schoolers we were fine to smoke inside.
@@angelabenedict this makes a lot more sense now because tampa’s “the castle” has been established since the 1990s. nice to know 90s goth hasn’t fully worn out yet!
I live in the Tampa area and I was also going to post on it!
The whole in the 90's vampire comment had me remember a time not too long ago, like back in 2017 or 2018, my bestie and I were in the Carousel Center aka Destiny Mall USA, I was dressed very comfy for hours of shopping. Well a young teen girl walked up to me, ignoring the existence of my poor friend XD pulling her boyfriend along announcing for everyone to hear "Look look it's a vampire! She's so pretty!" I was like 30-31. She was dressed mall goth and I had to just slip her a few of my fav. bands and tell her to keep the vampire talk on the down low. Can't out us. I really didn't want her to get teased because kids these days will find any reason to tear into you and totally go physically violent on you for no sane reason. But it now makes sense why she was so excited to see me. Probably some carry over from the 90's she likely heard about through some sort of grapevine. Poor thing was like 16 at most and she'll never get to experience going to a club any time soon being so petite they will card her FOR SURE. To be honest being so tall I rarely got carded......even drinking. Being tall has it's perks. Intimidation factor 1000%. Especially when you're stoic 99.9% of the time by natural default.
I know in the SF bay area, there is at least one 18+ Club. they even have an all ages night once a year.
Hey, that's something! We need more places to follow suit so these kids can get their butts to an event before they get the crap scared out of them by some of these online jerks.
while i was a kid in the 90's born 89 it felt like a very different world for sure always liked your videos telling your goth club 90's stories 😎
Hi Angela, I’m happy to report that a local club here hosts a goth night once monthly that is 18+ to enter and 21+ to drink! It’s called Digital Noir for anyone who may be in North Carolina reading this.
Thank you!! 🙏🏻 I live in NC and always have trouble meeting other goths!! Will look this one up!! 🖤
@@FeralWolf31 Yay you’re so welcome! Happy to help and hope to see you there someday!
I mean my city has a beloved goth spot that all the goths know and love in our city. There's a mural of Bowie, siouxxie, Robert Smith and other icons on the wall outside. Goth events always being held and also always 18+, it literally feels times haven't changed. Other than phones existing and some more modern goth music being in the mix. I stomp life out on floor w my boots
One of my biggest complaints growing up over the last 20-30 years was the absolute LACK of anything for 21 and under to do. This was even worse in a small town. Though I am fortunate that my first taste of a goth venue was when I was 18 and they allowed it. Same thing though, stamp on the hand and the bar area's were walled off and guarded by a bouncer, but the rest of the place was open. My mother never let me do anything so I wasn't able to actually explore anything until I was 18, but I was elated to find the club that I did. I love it to this day. Their business has suffered a lot since taking away 18+ access though and it is actually depressing to see.
Though I listen to your stories and I kind of envy you the freedom that you and it seems like many others had. Today at least kids have the internet. I had to scrape for that access to even that as it was still so new and not everyone could afford it or even had a computer. But if I was 18 now I would be even more pissed off knowing there is even less option to get out and meet like minded people who like the same music.
Though even know I find myself so far away from the scene but that is entirely because the scene that I know where my friends are, are in a different state. My scene is still in Salt Lake City. There seems to be an upswing in Vegas, I just don't know anyone here which makes fighting the anxiety to get out that much harder. So when I can't get up to SLC I live vicariously through you and others on the internet. So having the internet is still better than nothing.
Though I think it could be interesting to look into what it would take to do something for 21 and under. (And I have to add that I absolutely LOVE your lipstick. The shade is so rich!)
Can you do some music based videos? Maybe a couple of label retrospectives (cleopatra and projekt)
You brought up a good point about the online community and how it can really color younger/newer people's perceptions about the community in real life. It's something I've seen in other subcultures I'm a part of too (namely lolita) where new people talk about being scared to reach out to their local community or go to in person events because all they know is the hellscape online and they think it will be more of the same, it's sad to see. It's always been an issue, but I think the pandemic forcing people in more niche communities to rely more on the internet to connect with one another has only exacerbated this. (Granted I had a fairly limited exposure to the online goth community as a teen because I simply didn't seek it out, I learned about it when I was younger and then sort of just did my own thing while listening to the music/observing.)
I think I did miss out on a lot as most older gen z's lost a good bit of our early to mid 20s to the pandemic but instead of building up going to goth clubs as scary it just made me count down the days until they could come back. My first goth night was an absolutely magical experience, getting to dance to the music I loved and be surrounded by people I wanted to look like (bless the older crowd for being kind even if I was obviously showing my inexperience by being very drunk and excited.) The one nice thing I guess about being older is I am more secure in myself/give less fcks. I know for myself going to a club alone in my teens or even at 21 would've been intimidating.
Perhaps I can relate with the fact that wasn't introduced to Industrial events until my 3rd year in college, while my best friend who introduced me to the club life had been doing it since he was 14. Growing up, even if I was introduced to it earlier on, I never wanted to ask my parents for money to attend any non-local music events Fast forward to my late 20s and just turning 30, I am free to college loans, have a comfortable tech career, and am catching up with the life that I missed. Admittingly, I am very fortunate and grateful of my situation, as many others still continue to struggle financially, as they also try to embrace the music scene, while juggling with the means to survive it an expensive place like NYC. Moreover, I've come to terms with being single and drama-free, rather than worrying about the prospects of starting a family and the struggles that come with it. Life is just too short...
yeah im 17 and ive been into goth music and stuff for about a year and theres basically nothing goth related near me and i dont know anyone irl whos into the same music as me (although i've tried with varying levels of success to get people into it) so i haven't really had any experience going to goth nights ect. however i found out theres one goth related thing going on near me next month so im really exited and im gonna try and go!
You do good talking with peoples about how is harder to be goths. It’s helpful!! 👍😊😘🤟🏾🙌🏽🖤🖤🦇📱
I love being goth it makes me happy that there's others who i can relate with. Before i knew about the subculture, i always thought i was weird. Assholes would make fun of me, my clothes and music, and couldn't ever make friends with others/never related, and it made me feel empty. and when i found out there's other people who actually had the same interests as me, it made me so happy that i still haven't had the opportunity to get into a club. you make a great point that it is very difficult not to have those clubs. I'd give anything to be there like a sponge and absorb all the vocabulary/knowledge that i can
I were young I wear normal clothes. My parents and school won’t let me wear goth. Because of reason. Until now I found goth is my first time. I like it alots. Yes clubs must see IDS card and color bracket to approve enter in club. I saw peoples in club. I know about drink beer, wine, soda, and water bottles have in clubs. I just one time to drink wine. I don’t like look drunk. I want to know more about goth. It’s pretty hard for me to learn things and meet gothic peoples how I talk with communicate goths who know sign language or write the note or some read lips. Thank you for it.
Goth is MUSIC, not clothes.
The bar I got to in Detroit is 18+, although most of us there are in our 40’s. There is a “more popular” goth bar in Detroit that pulls in the younger crowd
Thank you for sharing your experiences with the Goth scene in the 90s. I was fortunate to experience the subculture via Sarah's Nocturna and her other events. I started going in the early '90s and have been on this musical journey ever since. I was hooked on the Ethereal side of things back then. I also have a strong interest in shoegaze as well. Anyway, I enjoy your videos. Thank you again. BTW, your long hair is very beautiful.
Thanks for the mention, Stever!
@@ScaryLadySarah Your welcome! 🦇
Awesome video so far, i would have needed this as a teenager, which was a while ago but i live in Sweden so yeah 😂 Not much around here, not even 15 years ago. Small town...
You look amazing Angela 🖤
Thank you so much! Oh wow, Sweden. I'm sorry you don't have much going on around there. But hey, you have Semla! We don't have Semla. I wish!
@@angelabenedict If i had money i would go to the bigger cities and explore, but i still wish clubs existed in smaller areas. Atleast i got to go to a club once when i was in L.A in 2009, (have no idea what the name was) but it had more of a industrial vibe the night i was there. Ha! So you like Semla? I hate them, you can have them!
There aren't any goth events in my area, but I'm going to first goth show soon! I'm seeing Vision Video in march, they finally have an all ages show about 4 hours from me. I've already got the pre-show-integration anxiety a month and a half ahead of time, but I'm also super excited!! Great Video!
Watch the magic happen when that anxiety turns mind melting excitement the moment you drive by the venue and see all the goths waiting in line to get in. I'm so happy that Vision Video pushes for all ages events so the younger generation can get involved. I'm so excited for you!
I've felt the anxiety-turned-excitement feeling before at punk shows (I've been to see Bikini Kill and Descendents) but I feel like it's going to be something entirely different with goth because as much as I love and adore punk, goth feels like it's an entire part of me. I make the anticipation anxiety a lot worse because I always get to the show like an hour before doors even open to get really awesome spots right in front of the stage. Shows in general are so amazing and the excitement levels before and during are some of the best moments of my life so far. I can't wait to be able to experience it with goth!
Eee! I saw Vision Video in El Paso a few months back, they're great!!! Also for awhile Twin Tribes was touring, they toured twice or more recently with Wing Tips. The modern bands are out there!!! Have fun, they put on a great show!!!
I am Happy to see you feel better and 100 percent again, Angela🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Thanks so much! It was a ride.
@@angelabenedict You are Welcome 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
You're always really clear that there were people who wore fantastic outfits/ make-up/ hair./ jewellery when you went clubbing, yet it seems online a lot of people are very down on anyone who makes that much effort with their appearance, as if you can't possibly be into the music and look spectacular. It just bugs me. I love the music, I listen to it every day, but because I have spent years building an amazing wardrobe my own people judge me. It's like we can't win.
I just wanted to vent!
I remember getting into goth when I was around 16-17 so not quite old enough to drink in the U.K. so I had to wait a year until I could legally go to goth clubs and drink but once I got to 18 i went to some really interesting nights and clubs that alas don’t seem to exist anymore in London mostly.
It's very odd. It's like they all packed their things in the night and jumped ship. I hope it changes soon. I mean, it's great we got our fun and memories out of the deal but if it continues, who knows how it will effect the new kids.
@@angelabenedict Well we’ve got to convinced future kids that Goth is actually something you listen to and not just something you wear that feels like the new challenge.
When I was young in the 80s there was an all ages club in Tucson, AZ- the Fineline. It's been gone for decades. One of the bars in Tucson hosts a "Fineline Revisited" night. It's a 21+ event.
Something else I wonder about. Perhaps the 18+ goth nights went away because the demand dropped for a time being, especially in the mid 00's - 10's when, as you had pointed out, a lot of kids were latching into things like Numetal and even pop punk. I think that's when the old head goths started breaking away from the youth for a while and that's when they decided to to retreat back to their own clubs.then when the new kids came in, they came in with all this complete lack of knowledge or their own subculture because they didn't absorb any of it early in, so they show up to our clubs now and they want to hear witch house or straight up trap or emo and its really frustrating. Its like everyone under 40 in the goth club now is trying to hear anything BUT goth music.
They’re different than most of the world, yet so similar in different ways. I’ve always wondered what it would be like if the subculture was a pop culture
Evening, Angela! Love your makeup in the video today🖤
Hi! Thanks so much, I'm glad you like it. I'm so stuck on the orange eyeshadow.
@@angelabenedict of course! It suits you very well😊
In my town, we have a yearly 21+ Pride party. In recent years, we've opened it up to folks under 21 (and under 18) in the late afternoon - early evening. During this time, we just don't serve drinks. But the kids get to go out and party too! I hope more event spaces would become willing to host and play music without serving alcohol for at least the earlier part of the event.
That's great that you found a way to make your event inclusive to the younger crowds. I wish more places would do things like this.
Growing up small town, rural community, religious family, mentally abusive ex ....I am just now in my forties finding my baby bat wings. Loving the music. Finding my "look". I knew I belonged somewhere. Hopefully I have found it.
Well, well, well...this is a good Thursday. Look at this sight...Cheekbone Angela with more knowledge for the game🥂
Absolutely solid advice for younger people getting into the scen👌👍 I agree we really do need to bring back the all ages clubs. I used to get a bit annoyed sometimes with the giant X they would put on your hands because I didn't want to be perceived as a "kid"😂 but I always had fun and valued those experiences especially now looking back, awesome times! I'm so sorry about your pictures being destroyed, that sucks honestly ❤️ I'm glad you still have those memories though. Love hearing the stories about them as well🖤
We're lucky enough here in Pittsburgh that a lot of the goth/industrial shows actually are all ages now. The few places that were actual bars that hosted a lot of the shows didn't survive the pandemic. Most of the shows now are at venues that either are all ages, or don't even serve alcohol in the first place. There was literally a 10 year old kid at the Aesthetic Perfection show last year. Gotta start them young.
Hi there, Angela! Best wishes from a Lithuanian batcave!
Oh wow! Best wishes to you too from New York!
In my European country it's only 18+. There aren't many goth clubs left and the ones that are still here don't want to risk doing sth illegal
I also started clubbing when I was 14, kept going until the nearest club shut down and then just went to big events like Draculas ball or tours.
I’m really lucky and take for granted that I live near Fallout in Richmond, VA. It’s an actual full time goth club and definitely has events for 18+. I love it and suggest anyone to check it out but it is members only on weekends I believe :) it’s easy to get a guest pass if you know someone tho.
feel nostalgia watching your videos, 33 now in middle and high school always dressed in goth fashion always been interested in anything macabre or different. from tennessee where everyone thinks and dresses the same...
i never lived in a place with a goth scene until i was 30 years old and I was so nervous about going. I still did. but id had so many negative interactions with the community online I was terrified. Ive been goth for 20 years but i couldnt join a scene due to my location. The first few times I went I cried when i got home because I felt like i didnt belong. Its been a year of going and Im happy to say Its no longer like that. Ive band friends with so many awesome people and have been welcomed with open arms by the elder goths of the area. No one every questioned my "goth card." (okay i did get mistaken for a baby bat last time but thts because the lady thought i was much younger than I am XD)
I'm so sorry you went through that! We can sometimes be our own worst enemies in situations like that. Sometimes we can be so judgmental of ourselves that we automatically assume others are doing the same when it's rarely over the case. Hey, I did it! I'm pretty sure a lot of new goths did the same thing when venturing out for the first time. I'm so glad that you were able to stick with it and find yourself in a happier place where you're able to enjoy!
Imagine being in the community without you realizing you’ve been in the community for longer than you just open your mind to it.
You are always interesting angela love your videos it is perfectly ok not to drink you are the kind of person that can fit in anywhere you are a super intelligent woman love you as you are you would be a fun intelligent person to hang out with
"I'm standing far ahead and always looking backwards"
"I'm standing far behind with eyes fixed on tomorrow."
Breathe in deep and open your heart again,
the fire burns deep within me when the embers call
the life I live follows after all.
I have only been to a non-concert goth event once or twice.
And "after all" like the song,
I am only me, one person,
no one said I had to stand in the gap lest all Goth music fade away.
Good thing too, because the goth music I like is mine,
I discovered it and just knew, it is not like I invented it.
Sure I have listened to Goth since 1990, maybe before since I found Siouxsie and the Banshees in 1987 and started listening there.
When you have social anxiety as far as I can tell in the 1980s and still manage to get into goth music.
Get this, from the magazines I read in the early 90s they told me goth music was over and dead.
In spite of that I still searched out all goth music I could find just to hear it.
I'm sure there are many giga or terabytes out there of Goth music I haven't heard yet, but that is ok.
If it takes me a thousand years to hear the best goth song, then so be it.
There was a really nice background music Halloween 1992 I think, Elvira as hosting it,
or it was a song in goth talk in the background.
Never could find that exact song.
It has been so long now I probably wouldn't know it if I heard it again, or would I?
In Chicago we had Medusa’s.
It was iconic. It was legendary!
Damn it was an amazing time of adventure and discovery. 🖤🖤😎👍🏼
Very pleased with your explanation. I strongly agree that you learn't the Goth vocabulary at a Goth club and not in high school. That is why it is pleassing to have a group of students in high school who are part of the Goth scene and you can speak the Goth vocabulary. No expert in education exer explained to me or even at home what social anxiety is like when it is difficult to intergrate, with the mainstream. I still say to get to know the Goth subculture better,just don't depend on mainstream media or anything on social media that will be misleading. There will always be people who are educated with a university degree and cannot think beyond or out of their degree.
14 yo old babybat here living in Germany. I can still go to any club here with my mom legally but there’s a lot of festivals,concerts, clubs who would let me in without her. I just came back from a concert (I went alone with my group 14-17 year olds). The singer of the post punk band was around 17, so where the rest of the band. The audience was around 13-22 years old, with some exceptions. I used to think alternative youth was dead but that’s really an American thing to say. This is really one of the only things I actually like about Germany though and I feel really sorry for Americans who don’t have these laws.
I’d like to ad that alternative and goth youth isn’t dead anywhere, it’s just hidden in a lot of places.
Interesting to hear mall goth wasn't a thing in NY, because it definitely was in PA and NJ. Not every area had all ages or 18+ events, even in the 90's and early 00's. So, around these parts the mall goths were the people who couldn't afford or have the option of clubbing. This left them in a transitory state of subculture limbo not quite a solid or liquid but leaning in a direction. You could buy and listen to shit from cleopatra records at The Wall and Hot Topic in addition to other staple labels. If you had a friend working at the HT they could put on the stuff over their store system. Many were goth, many hung at the mall and that made them mall goths. There may be an associated look with the label but that doesn't change the basic concept.
The thing that people are referring to is a something that didn't exist. They're basically using pictures of kids and Deftones t-shirts, massive tripp pants and Marilyn Manson makeup who are essentially NuMetal as their template and guide for what mallgoth is. They're claiming that that is a subgenre or subtype of goth. Which you being a goth, as you know there are no subtypes when it comes to people in the scene, just music. I can understand the concept of not really having anywhere to go and choosing a meeting point. Malls used to be a hub since the 1980s of social activity but slowly fell out of favor.
@@angelabenedict Maybe it didn't exist in some areas but for others it did and it looked like that at times. Just wore an old pair of tripp pants last Sunday. I think the issue is more that the modern conception is divorced from the original lived experience. Was it a sub-type or genre, no and it isn't today but it was a descriptor given to a group of people.
I can understand why it's confusing for some people; TicTok and Tumblr are using google as wardrobe inspo without a soundtrack to go with it. There has already been older or more knowledgeable people (yourself and StrangeAeons) who have made videos mentioning the subject. Maybe in time people will experiment with the music as well. We all find our way.
@@Lilnaomi3 That's the strange part how they can make an association like that without the music when it was so integral to the look. I mean 99.9% of the time they were wearing band t-shirts. Even if it wasn't goth, music was such an integral component that they had to wear it somewhere on their bodies and if it wasn't on their T-shirt it was written on them and sharpie marker, graffited on their bag with a white out pen or band stickers on their boots. They always found a way to let you know what they were all about.
@@angelabenedict I'm going to guess it has to do with overlapping interest in the algorIthm. They might not have band patches and bum flaps but that translates into tags and mood boards.
I've stumbled across old photos labeled mall goth when searching for a website called goths up trees, y2k design, egl and jnco jeans. I would think others can find these things easily as well.
Social media platforms are so ultra curated that it makes sense. As soon as there is a minor trend it spreads quickly. Then it becomes a game of 8 degrees os seperation. This may just be the gateway for some to find new things.
I'll be honest. The dog leash anecdote was pretty funny.
Indeed! It's quite popular among the incels and mental defectives.
@@angelabenedict I'm afraid you took my comment the wrong way. When I laughed at the thought of someone sticking a dog leash on you in Highschool, I was laughing at the person who did it, not at you. I realize that his behavior had undertones of something pretty more serious, and I don't blame you for feeling threatened by it. The thing is, I can't stop people from mean/selfish/rude/disrespectful/stupid or whatever, but I can at least laugh at them for it, and so that's what I do.
@@iollan286 Might have. What did you mean?
@@iollan286 actually, no need just realized there was more to the comment below the 'read more' button. Apologies for that! People can kind of be jerks. I've had to delete a few comments on this subject in particular of people who loved the idea and thought it was an overreaction.
In Boulder Colorado, (where my college is ❤) we have Bluehouse who puts on events that play Goth/Punk and have local bands play, most are 16 and up
That's awesome! I hope more states catch on.
Moving to SF in the 1980's was where I immersed myself in the goth scene. While many elder goths were actually welcoming, the elitists always wanted to credential check. A group of us used to dress up and take tea at the Mark Hopkins in SF, which you can imagine caused quite a stir lol. As I grew into my goth-ness, I made it a point to be accessible to Baby Bats especially those who looked like me. I will say this, the internet has been great for goths of color to find our people and share our stories. Seeing ourselves represented in the scene, especially back then. I have an old issue of Propaganda with Grace Jones. Even they recognized her influences.
Elitism is necessary in any subculture.
@@Anonymous-wb3nz no, it isn't. Elitism is what keeps a subculture stagnant and insular. I get wanting to protect the subculture which is something Angela talks about a lot, but there needs to be a balance. Too many internet goths spend more time trying to gatekeep than to welcome. Hell, even Angela has been called a "fake goth."
We all try to be unique, but the greatest uniqueness is the merging of the cosmic personality with the individual personality. Imagine the expression of the self through the infallible foundation of Divinity. This is how the Goddess and her God are born twice to walk the earth through meditational Alchemy.
I will say, everyone always assumed I was a dominatrix and would ask me to step on them, and when I would get mad it would only make it worse. So sub vs dom assumptions I've gotten the opposite but it has still made me feel very unsafe and I hate it.
Adults would do that too when I was a teen. :/
You explained this extremely well…🦇
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
As someone who, for want of a better word, donned the "mallgoth" look in the early to mid 00s, I had just heard my sister say that she/her friend group [who dressed the same] referred to themselves as "freaks" so, all throughout high school, when people would ask what I was/what subculture I belonged to or whatever, I remember correcting people by saying I was a "Freak", because that's what I was informally told the style was called.
I'm fine with saying "mallgoth" now, even if it's not accurate, because it quickly gets the idea across [iirc, the term "mallgoth" was generally used derogatorily and was meant to mock and ridicule the numetal kids anyways, so for me it's more of a "embrace the cringe" of the term rather than "yeah this is cool and what we were called and woo"]
I am only 1 minute into you video. Yes, seeing you for the first time. Your eye make up is insanely awesome! Wow. Way to go.
I am from Argentina. There's like maybe 5 goth clubs/events in the entire country and most of them are in the city of Buenos Aires. I'm from a city that's 700 Km away from Buenos Aires. A year and a half ago I made the decision to move to the city of La Plata. I thought there would be goth nights because it's the capital of the province but so far I've encountered none, just 2 goth bands that ocassionally play at a bar... I was basically the only goth at the last gig I went to.
Thankfully though, Buenos Aires is just one hour away by bus, so I finally fulfilled my dream of going to a goth club for the first time in my life a year ago. I don't go often because I'm kinda poor and going out always costs a lot of money here, even if i don't drink alcohol, but when I do go I always have a blast.
Omg completely unrelated (currently watching and loving so far) but, I LOVE your dragon necklace! Absolutely stunning 😍
Thank you so much!
I wish it were possible now to set up high schooler events for those who are in high school now. You show your school id to get in so no one over like 20 could fraternize. Like there would have to be security folks and such but they'd be there to keep older adults out. I'm 30y and i would love to be a part of making something like that possible
Fashion is the skin. Subculture is the liver and kidneys. Music is the heart and lungs 🖤
When I was a teen, I was a big introvert. I spent most of my time writing. I only really hung out with my neighbor and then eventually my boyfriend and his friends. I kinda wish I spent time with my own friends and did things like this.
Definitely right: once those years are gone, you can’t get them back. Tried in my 20s to be social and it wasn’t really safe. Now I want a camera and make positive memories. Heal my inner baby bat. 🦇
One day…maybe…I’ll host a Goth party or maybe a Crow party. We’ll listen and dance to Goth music, clad in black/blue/purple, and swap accessories and/or shiny rocks (rockhounding is huge where I am). That’s the dream.
Great video as always. I’ve learned about the subculture mainly through your videos. Not many goths where I’m at and it sucks because as a baby bat I would love to get out there and be more engaged with the subculture. Anywho, Keep doing what you’re doing, you’re awesome 🖤🦇🤘🏽
I believe it usually takes place in Ridgewood queens. There is a all ages queer goth night called Sissies of Mercy. I believe their concert events are also all ages or 16 up
I feel incredibly lucky that even in small town Breaux Bridge Louisiana, we had an all ages club for live shows. (Late 90s to about 2003ish?) Since it was such a small area it sort of attracted all alt subcultures, goth, metal, punk, ska, etc. But still feel so immensely lucky to have had that, especially being in such a small town. So many amazing memories, basically the only good social memories from that time in my life.
That's great to have so many different alternative groups in varying ages under one roof. It sounds like a lot of fun!
Pertaining to the dog collar comment I remember I was seeing a doctor when I was 18 and he pulled on my dog collar and said do you like it when guys do this and I was so taken back he must have seen the look on my face and followed it up with calling me morbidly obese even though I had just lost 83 pounds in three months and was a stick, the amount of abuse you get from people thinking all goths must be freaky is insane.
Such a sweet video
I do have some photos left from the early 2000’s. I do cherish the ones I have left. I’m grateful that I got to experience the metal clubs and gigs that I did. It’s part of me 🖤
I am very happy and proud to say that my main goth club night in Chicago, Nocturna, which I have been doing since 1988, has been 18+ since 1999! I *love* our young goths and though it costs me more to do an 18+ night, I would never make Nocturna strictly 21+ again. I am fortunate to have an amazing host venue, Metro, which is legally able to allow patrons that are under 21.
I would make all my events 18+ but most venues here are not legally allowed to admit anyone under 21.
🖤🎶
I love that you're able to do this! It's so important for people to be able to get involved. I don't know what happened! There were 18+ and random all ages and they suddenly just vanished. Even NY. Everyone I know that's been to Nocturna talk about how amazing it is and how much fun they had.
@@angelabenedict 🖤🖤🖤
I have great memories of a 18+ club I would go to in the '90s called Soil. I had club friends that had not yet turned 21 to go to the bigger goth/industrial club so it was great having that event for the younger crowd. Didn't need to drink to have fun...though there was plenty of that happening out in the parking lot LOL! That anticipatory feeling before heading out to club stayed with me for a very long time even after being comfortable in the scene. I miss that feeling now, going to the regular local events...but still will get it if going to an event outside my local scene.
Yea you hit the nail on the head here. I only recently felt comfortable exploring, as my first intro was gatekeepers in HS years ago. Then also a webcomic friend. Also was getting into tech and cyberpunk at the time.
Im not much of a clubber, but yoiks, that can put you in perpetual baby bat mode.
Here's my take. I was born in 70 and grew up in a rural area with small school, zero social skills and no driving ability. I listened to metal, hard rock, Boris Bobby Picket and old rockabilly, loved Halloween,Gothic literature, the old gothic movies, Munsters, Addams Family, Dark Shadows and fantasy/horror comics. I enjoy Voltaire, but found it difficult to get into post punk and never really considered myself Goth. But this is from someone who very rarely RPGd, had next to none friends and was in a shell throughout grades 7 to 12. I loved the spooky and still do tho.
I also had a fake ID just like you had that was still under 21 to do just what you were saying. 😄 That was NYC alright.
Also 100% facts on everything you have said.
I don't have many old 90s 2000s photos either, and that does suck.
I fully agree to bring back the age to 18 and above .As a 90's baby bat our goth/alternative clubs in South Africa was fortunately no under 18's but with older friends i got to experience it when i was 16 but did not drink and every time i wend, it was this big anxiety but a good one as you said and after that till early 2000 it was just the best time for me .today is a lot different but i want to bring back that 90's feel with the modern of today. Thanks for this great goth talk
the closest city to me has an 18 to enter 21 to drink goth night at the club but its still 1.5 maybe closer to 2 hours away from me
The fact that I was a goth for 8 years before I could go to my first goth event :(
That's terrible! That's way too long to wait.
@@angelabenedict When I was 18 I went down to the goth club bc I thought it was an 18+ night but it wasn't and they turned me away :/ often it's not even marked if something is 21+ vs 18+ so I had to guess; I still have to dm event organizers just to check for my friends who are under 21
There are goth nights at coffee shops in my city. The shop is called Lestat’s. Cloves and coffee anyone?
I love it! I hope you get people coming.
I wish I got to go to those type of events or they were around when I was 18
The only way I met with my friends was in school. As a zoomling, nobody really wants to go out anymore. I see a lot of friendlies at concerts though. I just need a second location thats more casual, like a club or something. But nowadays everyone is on their phone, including me. :( I wanna start going out more, but my town in unwalkable. Its a suburban nightmare.
I was never able to do what I wanted to do as a kid I feel like my life hasn't even started yet at the age of 28 because I am still trapped in this life I am unhappy to be in.
What sort of things are keeping you trapped?
@@angelabenedict Living situation family, I just started renting a small apartment at the age of 27. got my first ever job at 26 because I've been so anxiety ridden and isolated trapped within my own family circle all these years I have never felt like I could be myself I didn't get my license until I was 27 just got it in december I just feel so far behind in life like time has stopped for me while everyone else is living.
We have an 18 to enter 21 to drink goth night in CT.
That's awesome! I hope it's a trend that ticks up.
This might sound weird but, I don't think that just because something is laughable it's less of a serious thing. There was this one time a guy tried to sexually assault me at the park, and when I reported it to the police we were laughing about how weird and ridiculously f'd up the whole thing was. I wasn't distressed because the dude went down after a single headbutt, but everyone very much accepted it as "okay this guy is most likely not really a threat, this time, but it's by no means legal or dismissable to do this". If someone tried to put a dog leash on me I'd have reported him and laughed with the police as he's getting charges pressed against him. He's the butt of the joke, not you. The law doesn't exclude things from being unacceptable because they're funny.
Were you assaulted in 1997?
@@angelabenedict no but I live in a small eastern european country where everything is like 20 years behind. The person taking my statement was in fact overtly racist and sexist, but if there's anything I've learned around these situations, it's that your own attitude is key. It's like when people get ridiculed for reporting having encountered spirits or aliens - there's always going to be smug know-it-all's who try to ridicule you, but it's the delivery which changes everything. Of course, you can't expect a kid to know how to handle these situations, especially since it's not exactly common for society to aim to teach them how, and it wasn't my intention to insinuate not reporting it was the wrong thing to do. However, there's a certain way of expressing assertiveness which goes a long way when it comes to this in particular.
I'd recommend Death Guild at DNA Lounge in San Fransisco as an 18+ Goth night! The majority of the people there when my friends and I went were older than us though, and we did feel a bit out of place because of that-I remember an older guy said something and pointed directly at me which did not help the club anxiety lol. That said, it was totally worth it to be able to go out as a non-drinker & dance to my favorite bands! I'm kind of dreading being in more alcohol-heavy environments soon, so I'm with you on wanting more age-inclusive events. Always love hearing your thoughts on this stuff as a newcomer to the goth club scene!
Thank you for posting these videos. I love listening to your insight on these topics. I hope you and your loved ones are doing well.
Mall Goth was absolutely a thing, I was one of em at the Mall of America in 1997 our circle of friends was really diverse there were mansonites, juggelo's, metal heads homeless kids crust punks and graffiti kids. We did eventually start going to late nite coffee more often than hang at the mall but we started out as mall rats. I guess a better term for it in the day might not be mall goths instead more of the hot topic goths. Every single mall i went to in those years that had a hot topic had a group of kids some goth that hung out there fairly often. It also helped that most malls had semi decent record stores in them where we could find alot of the music. especially the cheap cleopatra and metropolis compilation cds that hot topic sold for 5 bucks. The mall was our entry point awhile before we started going to all ages dance clubs. I absolutely agree with you regarding the school wouldn't have done anything regarding the collar incident, its doubtful they would take it seriously today even.
What music did they listen to?
@@angelabenedict what music did who listen to? we liked alot of the same music across genres. i gravitated to goth industrial and techno, but i was still discovering alot of music back then.
@@RasMix1 When You said that there were mallgoths and went on to describe your experiences. My question to you when referring to mallgoths, what sort of music did they listen to at the time?
@@angelabenedict we all liked alot of different stuff. Some of us were more into goth and industrial myself being one of them. We had a very diverse group of friends back then, the late 90's were good like that.
Europe: 18. But i was never at a Goth Club or Party. At that time i have been in normal Discos and the Pagan Meeting, a regular Table Group.(no Dance, Music) Have you heard, Ville Valo is Back ? Touring also in US.
Sisters of Mercy, Skinny Puppy, Clan of Xymox, Molchat Doma, Gary Numan.....already a hot spring concert wise in NYC.
Just wish they'd ease up in these insane fees
Good morning kisess😚 for you Angela⚘🌷 I love you⚘😚💞