Our Subculture Is Not Your Hashtag
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Accumortis did a brilliant and well thought out video on this subject. I highly recommend checking it out: • SoundCloud Rap is Not ...
All opinions stated within this video are my own. The bands/individuals featured which you can find listed below have nothing to do with any statements I've made.
When you add the word goth to things you're associating that thing with a subculture. Goth Rap has no affiliation with Goth.
She Wants Revenge
Shadow Age
Colourbox
Strange Boutique
The Wraith
Glorious Din
Background music: Kiss The Blade - Young Soldier
Sadly the people who need to watch this video probably won't even see it.
just so you know, i saw it! ive been watching lots of videos like this lately and realizing that i was calling myself goth and didn't even know what goth was, i just watched a lot of toxic tears. this has been a great learning experience and ive found i like a lot of the music, i just hadnt been exposed to it.
@@savannanicoll1507
@Savanna Nicoll Sorry, I’m just seeing this. I was mainly speaking on the people who are into dark/alt rap music. Either way I’m glad to hear you’ve reached this video.
Goth isn’t just black lipstick and eyeliner. I hate when guys say they think goth girls are hot but they think it’s just black lipstick and eyeliner.
@@a.i.contacttracer305 stop trolling and go away will you? Nothing better to do
Totally beauty can also be a very ugly thing and ugly can be warm and full of life.
Fr
@@petermclaughlin3292goth is music based
Goth is a music based subculture....
Unfortunately, not every goth girlfriend wants to have Xanax parties in your basement. Rip Lol
👏😤👏😤👏
I just want a goth gf to cuddle with not become a junkie. Didn't think that was hard to ask for lol.
I would prefer a gal which's a smokin' hot babe, a witch and a dude all at once. And I would go for red wine and weed instead of Xanax.
You are absolutely beautiful love the color of your lipstick !!!!
💯👌
In middle school, guys avoided me because I was a “creepy goth” and now those same guys are like “where can I find a goth gf?” But they don’t mean a real goth chick they just mean some girl in black leggings who owns an o-ring choker
My boyfriend really liked it that I'm a "big tiddy goth gf" until I started telling him about my comic book idea (it includes a lot of morbid comedy, themes and imagery) and he asked me to not tell him about anything that morbid again. And it wasn't even that bad. He's a hardcore gamer yet he's never even tried any of the Silent Hill games. Why did he want a gf like that, honestly? A big part of being goth is enjoying dark things that don't stop at corsets and torn fishnet stockings. If you don't like that aesthetic, why would you even want to date someone who identifies through it?
@@Toxihex cause they want you as a novelty lol most of these preps want to be cool and edgy for the sake of being seen as cool and edgy
@@Toxihex why are YOU still with him?
@@rantersparadise Dude what about the whole thing makes you think I'm with him? We were together for a month and a half. There's a lot to tell even for that time and it's so crazy you can't make that shit up if you tried. I was with him to see where this batshittery can reach and boy was I almost certain we had long gone past the reach of our galaxy about 2 weeks in.
Another thing is that those same boys will say they want a goth gf when in reality they want egirls.
so, i actually left highschool early because in freshman year, i'd get bullied daily for being a goth. i used to get pushed into lockers or spit at, all the time. and that following year in 2017, EVERY girl was claiming to be a goth, the exact same girls who were pushing me into lockers the year before were claiming to be "big tiddy goth girlfriends" because suddenly it was like a trend, and i was getting heavily sexualized online and in real life by men because "goth" soundcloud rappers made it "cool and sexy" to have a goth girlfriend.. its humiliating.
Yeeeees, I tooootally agree with you, same goes for people that like anime/manga, got bullied for it, and now its a trend and every girl likes it and «they always were like that» its the same people who bullied you for it, fuck that people.
The typical bandwagon jumpers... One day this, one day that. Suddenly when it becomes cool, hip and edgy to be a Goth they're clinging on to that label as long as it's promoted in the mainstream. Then someday something different comes along, Goth gets replaced and the whole circus starts all over again.
Same here..I dropped out in freshman year finally fed up with being bullied but now everything I was bullied about is now trendy I don't fucking get it.
@@sarahmoon1768 Im sorry this happened to you and others in the thread. young people can be terrible cruel. as a hip-hop fan who loved anime, manga, comics, rpgs (mostly vampire the masquerade) I got all sorts of crap from people. (mostly getting called a poser or a faggot, saying I was trying to hard to be cool....or getting called a satanist because I had a few goth friends and was obssessed with all things vampire.....I had to hide most of that stuff other than the love of hip-hop because it was one of the few things I was decent at as well as it being accepted (only anime that was accepted by people back then was Dragon Ball Z) but then 2008/2009 comes along and Vampires are all the rage thanks to a certain peaice of trash that shall not be named (when I was mocked for it as a youth) and Anime is all the rage as well thanks to crunchy roll.....(I know, Goth does not equel vampire, but the vampire subculture evolved out of it...i could be wrong)
I didnt drop out as I was able to express myself when I stopped giving a fuck what others thought of me (and started dissing them and their families, got militant as fuck)
Had you been a student at my high school I would have gladly been your friend. I hope things get better for you. Peace
the same thing happend to me (im still in school btw) the only difference i was not only expressing myself i was alsow mourning the death of my father , the bullying made me dress "normal" again in hopes that it would stop it didnt but seeing as the people who hated on others for standing out only to dress like them a while later is opseting to say the least (sorry for my bad grammar im from europe) what i alsow find anoying is that those girls would always preach about how everybody is equal and everyone is human on the inside always were the first to judge somone who looked differend. I am probably gonna drop out soon because its hard to live like this somtimes
Thank you for showcasing all the Goths of color and their music. Mainstream Black media won't even talk about this at all.
The Soundcloud Fake Goth rappers Sounds like another group trying to stick a label on themselves in the hopes of getting attention for themselves while promoting stereotypes regarding the Goth Subculture. Hated seeing that crap go on in the 90's and I hate seeing it being done now.
Gonna do a Black Goth Livestream in a couple of weeks where I tell Black people the truth about the subculture. So many Black folks want to be a part of the scene, and I want to help them learn about it.
I Remember Earth Girls Are Easy when I was in High school Fun movie with an early Jim Carrey, and Damon Wayans.
💜
💖💖💖
*"When you associate yourself with a group, any group, how you act in the way that you portray yourself is the way people on the outside are going to perceive that group."* - well said.
Not only do I admire the goth scene I love reptiles and these two groups to me are so very misunderstood because of people who don't care or understand what these things really are. I know this comment is kind of random but I just feel like at least are some that I find suffer a ton from this kind of misunderstanding.
Which is why I have always tried to be polite, eloquent, and well informed when talking to people...yes, even those Christian ladies telling me that I am going to hell.
@@ilovefish9458 Well said. I like Goth and as you love reptiles, I find reptiles facinating. People who don't care understand these two groups are in the world in the world of superficiality and crass commercialist culture. I like it when Angela Benedict says "Normies".
@@katleiahveridian6564 I don't wish to be rude to you. Should any of those Christian ladies ever tell you that you are going to hell, notice how they will react when you respond with "I look forward to seeing you there". I encourage you to be polite, eloquent and well informed about many subjects and topics, just like a Classy Goth.
@@julians7697 I love your comment! And yes it's easy to generalize people
Goth is a sanctuary to me where I feel safe from the outside world. Goth saved me from drinking too much. I never felt judged at goth clubs, it’s a place where I feel warm. I can’t wait to go back and seeing everybody. Like you said, it’s a community and family. I love my gothic fam. Goth is no where near drugs, violence etc it’s a place where we feel safe.
Samuel Truncale 😘
I have many friends in my Christian Goth groups on Facebook. They are some of the sweetest, coolest and most entertaining people in the universe. They are way more accepting than most people at local churches here (though my Bible study peeps are fine with me being the way I am). I bet if I went into a secular Goth club, it might be just as as cool and inclusive. I have never had the pleasure, being in NM.
@@razvandobos9759 I bet you have your share of cowboy churches, though (not that there is anything wrong with that). :0)
THANK YOU PREACH. I feel the same way.
You’re the first person I ever met who drank LESS when they got into the goth scene but OK
Oof, careful, people who misrepresent and don't relate to goth could cry and call you an elitist for actually knowing what you're talking about.
Too late! lol
I would tell those crybabies to learn how to read before calling anybody an elitist.
We know a harsh reality so those that don't care or understand need to learn the truth, it's a harsh reality!
Who cares, let them bitch. Oh well, I say. Line them up and throw them overboard.
I do enjoy goth culture, the values are interesting...
I do not dress/ wear gothic clothing, but I’m attracted to the darkness and nostalgic aesthetic it has... I don’t know is just “ romantic” not as in love but as the German expressionism ...
"soundcloud goth" is the new mall goth, but worse. At least mall goths were darkly inclined lol.
But yea this has been on my mind for awhile, I'm glad someone is finally pointing it out.
The soundcloud goth rappers just sound like every other mumble rapper nowadays, but they are trying to use the ~goth~ thing as a gimmick because they and their music wouldn't be interesting enough otherwise
some of them just TRY SO HARD to be the embodiment of what middle america thought of goth in the 90s "OH MY GOD! GOTH! SO DANGEROUS! MURDERS!" etc
again, some cheap attempt to make themselves seem interesting
It's a PR stunt. They just want to look interesting, cool, dark and edgy, that's why they want to appropriate the goth label. Basically to stand out of the masses and give their fans the feeling of being edgy, dark, cool, different and special (Special Snowflake Syndrome). In other words: It's all about money and fame of course... Many people associate dark emotions like melancholy, an inclination to loneliness; being lost in reverie, world-weariness/Weltschmerz and being an outsider with goth or just being interested in darker stuff like horror movies/series/videogames/comics/books. All this stuff doesn't make you a goth automatically, there's of course a high correlation and many sweet spots. But most people who are into that kind of stuff are pretty normal and average folks.
They just want a "goth bitch"
honestly the term mall goth is stupid af, goth isn’t some deep/inherit thing you need? it’s just a subcultural mostly identified through fashion or songs. unless ur acting some sort of goth role, then you ARE a goth
the whole “poser/fake” thing is stupid considering just by embracing it you ARE it
just my perception
@@djkingcock434 goth is more about music,you can be goth and not dress goth. So mall goth are people who dress goth without even caring about anything else in the culture. So it's not stupid saying they aren't Goths. They're not.
the tea is hot today! ☕️
Do you prefer yours with honey or lemon? 💜
Honey
Recently I was talking to a friend's teenage daughter and music came up. She claimed to be goth and listened to music like Marilyn Manson, Slipknot, Rob Zombie etc......I told her as pleasently as possible "You're not a Goth, you're a Metalhead!" and gave her a quick rundown of real goth music, then on to some metal talk. So just so you know, there are non-goths who are on your side too. :)
@@Nopenonameok Manson I suppose is more...shock rock?....or something...but it's close. Zombie and Slipknot however fall within the borders of metal, whatever prefixes you want to put on them.
'Alternative' as a description of music is a broad term used to describe many non-mainstream types of music. 'Darkly-inclined' is not a music genre, but it can be used to describe many types of music from goth to metal to country. As well, 'darkly-inclined' doesn't seem to have much of a culture or community around it, again it is mostly used to describe a person and their interests.
Goths and goth music tend to be darkly-inclined, as do metal and metalheads, but they don't have to be.
My opinion, anyway \m/
@@hayshaker6017 correct
This was my friends when I was 15. They listened to interesting music and called them selves goth but now that I know more about it I know they listened to industrial and metal. I didn't discover goth until later on. I do like it waaaay more than industrial and metal. Traditional goth is calming in a way that slow indie pop is.
Marilyn Manson is about as metal as Five Finger Death Punch.
@@donnabennett5454For some reason I misread this as “Marilyn Manson is as metal as fruit punch” and I was confused for a sec
as my main being a metalhead (but i listen to almost anything) the most annoying thing we have to deal with is when talking about death metal and non metal heads call it screamo, anger inducing moments. so definitely feel where you are coming from, in a different light.
Oh my god. Hearing things like that really grinds my gears.
Yep, we goths tend to use the metal analogy to help get our points across because it's the genre that most people know what is what is what about it lol. So Metalheads getting annoyed with things like you said is like us getting annoyed when people say things like Soundcloud Rap or certain kinds of Metal (Gothic Metal & Symphonic Metal) are "Goth" music when it isn't.
oh shit, I remember people asking me if Slipknot and shit is goth...and probably bands even farther off like Nickelback (still hoping that's a joke)
@@znyznyzny Yep, I get asked that too and it's just... I mean I don't mind explaining things but if people actually listened to Goth music and actually listened to the instrumentals, they'd understand why it's different from Metal.
I sense a Futurama fan posted.😆 Shut up and take my money.
I just found out about "Baby Goth" shortly after I made my video on this topic. I couldn't believe how terrible her music was. What's funny is that a lot of people think she's a plant crafted by some top record label, or something like that. Which means... Record labels and marketing people are trying really hard to capitalise the best they can on this stuff right now.
Yeah I just looked her up myself. Her pre-plant stuff actually isn't that bad, and actually sounds closer to goth music than her stuff released as "Baby Goth".
@@alanbennett4017 what the fuck did I just watch
I saw that video as well. Her music was abysmal, I had to google the lyrics and...It didn't get any better. Marketing goth as something new and edgy-- Seems about right. Companies are catching on, hence the soundcloud rapper face tattoo kit co. hunting for ambassadors. Being associated with something so profane, mindless and vulgar is like a slap to the face of something beautiful.
That must've been the video I saw. Now I would call that a poser for money and her agents.
@@JNoMooreNumbers She's the poster child of this poser goth/hipster goth thing. It's pseudo goth, "anything-but-goth" goth (?), GINO - Goth In Name Only... Honestly, I don't know...
Because I wear gothic-type fashion and like spooky things, people assume that I'm Goth and that I identify as Goth. But I don't. I explain to them that I do not like any Goth music except for ONE song by The Cure, therefore I can hardly carry the label, so I actually identify as Darkly Inclined. Those people don't get it.
You're you! You could get creative and start your own movement with you being the founding and only existing member. You're a 'Dark-Heianian' and those who dare challenge you will face their doom!
@@angelabenedict For a little while now, I've started organizing my style so to speak, not really enough to call it my very own, but enough to stand apart from the crowd. I like it!
Only one Cure song?!...to each their own I guess :(
@@rakkatytam Sure, there are a lot of artists I only like one or two songs from.
I usually listen to old bring me the horizon, I prevail, beartooth, suicide silence, motionless in white, albert the cannibal, old of mice & men, Ice Nine Kills I'm just curious do I have to listen to goth music to be goth. I love the style and have some skull dresses, spiked boots, also buying another dress in may also buying these beautiful heels that have blue roses and skulls on it with the heel as a spine. Also am interested in death, love horror movies, want to learn more about gothic poetry, am trying to be a forensic photographer because death is interesting and want to help people. Do I still count as goth I don't want to be a poser but am sometimes called a poser. Just wanted conformation that i am or am not
"Baby Goth" is just an industry plant. Goth girls are so popular amongst these sound cloud rappers since it gives them edgy points for having an "alt girl" (I use that term loosely) on their arm. I think lil peep popularized this "goth" trend with his "Goth Boi Clique"... I'm not even joking about that. Up until now, I've never been hit on so much by young dudes lol.
Brianna Kathleen bAby goth sucks fucking ass. 😭
gothboiclique was not his. It was just some stupid catchy name. Nobody actually with 2 brain cells really associated him as goth. He was more so associated with emo.
Thanks for the shout out to goth POC! Black trans woman here who just had my first practice for my new deathrock band. ☠️
Speaking of Goth POC. You should check out Gothic Soulflower. She is a black goth youtuber. Also check out Bianca Bullets on Instagram. She's another black goth. If you want some Mexican goths. There is me and Drac Makens. I am on instagram as JennOscura.
Be sure to put some demos up when you do, would love to hear how you guys play Deathrock. :)
I wish you the best of luck on your band!!! 🖤 I hope y'all go far :)
Is it just me or do older black people seem to really dismiss or straight up dislike the gothic subculture? I've heard them calling it a "white people thing" and even "can black people be goth" thrown around a lot from all ages and skin tones, which honestly sounds ridiculous to question. I myself don't know any black goths personally, but I've had a guy literally say "isn't a goth supposed to have pale skin?" as if their skin tone is the only thing stopping him from going goth. Not that he's interested in doing so or in goth in general, and I get why he'd say that and that it wasn't meant to be discriminatory (I'm pretty sure he didn't put that much depth into this one random thought he articulated), but the mere fact that the stigma around it is like that is what bothers me. So, did I just come across such people or does this actually hold ground in reality?
@@Toxihex B-I-N-G-O, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. That's pretty much the reason why you don't see many Black people into Goth because a lot of them buy into the whole "Goth is a white peoples thing". A lot of them think that you need to have pale white skin to be Goth and forget about the music, they won't give it a chance because it's "white people music" to a lot of them. This is why those of us Black people into Goth can run into the "Why are you trying to be white" nonsense (but to be fair, it's not just Black Goths who go through this, it's pretty much any alternative Black person).
There are so many boys at my school who romanticize the idea of "Goth Girls" or just being Goth in general. They are being sold a false dream by these "Soundcloud Rappers" of what they think is Goth. When they really are so far from what being a Goth really means. I'm a Senior in High School and I identify as a Goth. It truly makes me sick knowing that these boys are being told that Rappers are "The True Goth Icons"... AHHHHSSHHHHH (Just give me a minute for me to pull my hair out). I'm really glad you are shinning a light on this.
Preach 👏🏻
Hold up, these people are seriously calling these Rappers the "True Goth Icons", yeah they can kindly shove off with that nonsense lol.
does no one use Google? Lmao
Kai Decadence I know. It frustrates me to the very core!
What? Oh why!?
The tea is piping hot today🍵 I glad that you mentioned about this.
With a bit of honey and lemon
Can I mention how many of their fans have made fun of us?
Have thrown things at us?
Have tried to harm us?
And now want to associate with us??
Uhhhh NOPE!
That's the hypocrisy of it all. They make fun of goths on one hand and with rap making 'big tiddy goth gf's' trendy, they know sexualize goth girls.
Angela Benedict in my opinion, the 'big tiddy goth gf' piggishness isn't geared at us, per say. It's the girls who have no respect for themselves and flaunt themselves, wear black one day and then claim to be goth.
Ew... why does that even exists. 😩 I googled “SoundCloud goth rappers” and most of the dudes have rape charges and or assault charges, not to mention one is accused of being a pedo. No no no no no!!! 🤢
I do not want to be associated with that. People like them used to bully me in high school. NO! They are not allowed to make it trendy now, and try to appropriate it. 😒😠
I listen to the heaviest metal bands around and I wear pink floral dresses, skirts, and look more like your regular girl than anything else. But little do they know that in my airpods I am listening to death metal bands. I used to dress and look like the scene, but realized that I don't need to actually wear only black to appreciate the music.
Oh same. I rarely ever dress goth but I definitely love the music.
Death Metal isn't Goth....
I hate those goths who are like "if you don't have batsnest hair and don't wear black/a lot of make up and don't listen to this and this band you're not goth". Like seriously? I consider myself a goth even tho I wear whatever I feel like wearing and listen to what I like, doesn't matter if it's pop, trap, rap, gothic novel rock, ebm, metal etc. To me goth is a thing inside, it's a state of mind, something you are. Can't really explain it.
I love Voltaires interview about that "goth murderer". I think he explained exactly everything you have to know about goths and misconceptions.
But yeah I'm glad you talked about this topic. Lil peep and co are definitely not goths or at least don't make goth music, that's for sure
Your statement about goth being a state of mind makes the most sense to me!
Same...some days i wear a chill non goth outfit cuz im too lazy to dress up and do my makeup. It be like that sometimes
omg thank you for addressing this... I'm 23 and I notice/experience this so much with people my age and younger. They're just slapping a goth label on anything edgy and slightly dark. If you're on tumblr you can see this a lot too. An endless amount of 15 year old girls' blogs, touting the goth label, and all they post is school shooters, edgy lyrics, and photos of anorexic girls with dog collars and smudged eyeliner. These are the types of blogs that tumblr recommends to me because they use the goth label
That's actually quite sad. It makes me ponder the future of the subculture. 😶
It's why the goth community now has the gothgoth hash tag for anything that is related to the actual subculture as normies has misappropriated us and have driven us to do this
It makes me so sad. I'm a 15 year old goth girl and I can't find anyone my age who's actually goth. It makes me so upset!
@@Mina-fl6us the issue is especially with small towns that don't have a particularly big scene. The community pretty much is dependent on people showing up to clubs and if you're underage or even of age but have no goth or goth adjacent friends to go with then you're buggered. I grew up in Plymouth, UK for most of my life and literally all they have is a club night once a month and that's it. If you can't attend the local community acts as if you don't exist. I'm now 27. I moved to be with my partner in bristol and I have to say I'm the happiest I have ever been. Bristol is goth central for South West England. Its like the cultural hub. So I'm able to see a lot more live music and the scene isn't just restricted to turning up to the club once a month. We have events for the darkly inclined all year. For example arnos vale cemetery has held outdoor screenings of corpse bride on valentines and the nightmare before fore Christmas around that time of year. A bats ball, a theatrical rendition of frankenstein around Halloween time. There's also horror in the caves around Halloween where redcliffe caves hosts a cinema showcasing classic horror and b movies called horror in the caves etc as part of Bristol film festival. Moving to somewhere that has an active scene when you are able to is the best thing you can do. I've never felt so alive. Like you can still contribute to the scene in other ways coming from a small town but it's no fun knowing there aren't many like you. Being with my people makes me happy
I stopped using tumblr when it started recommending porn to me as a kid and I kept seeing the same thing every time. Tumblr’s just.... weird? Idk man
I used to call myself Goth until I realized I wasn't. Now I just call myself alternative if I come across a situation where labels matter. Otherwise Im just me.
Cancel it. Cancel it. Cancel it. Nonono. No no. No. The SoundClown slap-a-goth-label-on-it-to-make-it-edgy epidemic, huh? Only just hearing about this, thanks for listening to their music so I don't have to. I don't know what we'll have to go through before this blows over, but if the past is any signifier: get grouped in with the rose-print Vans edgy crowd that uses goth, punk, grunge and emo interchangeably? We're gonna have to get creative with this one, gang.
Loved this video!!!!! I had never really known that some SoundCloud rap was being associated as goth, and had only usually heard some that were associated with emos, and had seen a similar misperception at school since many ex emos (mcr, fab, etc) in my class would be expected to listen to xxx and a similar type of group as you mentioned here. I've heard the term goth be thrown at almost any black/dark seeming genre or anything really, and it sucks that that keeps happening. One that kind of pisses me off is the "big tiddy goth girl" thing, as most called that aren't even goth but only their for the aesthetic. Hope that throughout this year that we can get rid of that. Goths rise up.
As someone in highschool, I think that the reason why Goth SoundCloud Rap is popular is because people want to seem edgy, yet not too out of place in a world where rap seems to be the mainstream nowadays. They want to be “cool” without being too “weird” or “obscure” to get made fun of. I have showed people the music I like and they think it’s alright, but They lack the passion for it, and it makes me upset when they bash my taste and praise theirs. They can listen to anything they want, that’s not the problem. I just don’t like when they spit on actual Goth music while still using the hashtag or label.
So in short: They play it safe. I can understand when somebody's afraid of "coming out" as a Goth because they don't want to get bullied. Many Goths tend to be shy, introverted, reserved and sensitive and therefore have low self-esteem/self-confidence.
But that doesn't excuse this shenanigans. Not everything that's dark and melancholic is automatically Goth. Most fans of these SC rappers just want to be edgy, cool, different and special. They desperately want to stand out from the masses and try it waaaaaaaay to hard it's sooo cringey...
They kid in my school say they're emo, goth and punk cause they like 5sos and soundcloud. Kill me.
I just thought I would throw this out there for everyone as a tidbit. My first initial negative stereotype of Goth Subculture was in fact immediately following the Columbine shooting that occurred on April 20, 1999. The shooters were categorized(unfairly and mostly, inaccurately) as "Goths" simply because of the usage of black trench coats. Obviously to us, we see that a mere color and "look" is NOT GOTH. However, attempting to describe this to hard nosed, middle aged teachers at my school who had NO IDEA whatsoever what subculture meant was impossible. In fact, Goth was in fact not allowed at my middle school for over a year due to the unfair association that the Columbine shooters were, in their words, "followers of an eccentric culture that promotes murder, Satanism, outright hatred against humanity."(Words used in a printed speech by my then principal). Oh, were we pissed.
I remember that... Everyone was afraid of the goth sub culture and the music after that happens and even pegged it on Manson and his music. Crazy! It changed everything on that day!
Satanism is another big miss conception. Satanism is about freethought and has nothing to do with violence, hatred, or evil, it's a satire activist culture playing on the fears of religious people as well as keeping church and state separated and Satanists dont actually believe in Satan.
Goths can be Satanists, but not all Satanists are necessarily goths.
And no school shooter was ever a Satanist even if they claimed to be.
@@FrogknightAk47 Satanism and Satan worship were the same thing back then. I personally hate how they've turned it from an actual occult practice into a way for edgy rebellious atheists to have a way to cope with being unable to distinguish between faith in a higher power and faith in the worlds of others. There's ALWAYS one person willing to proudly school everyone about how satanism isn't what people think it is whenever it is mentioned in a comment section or board, and it's sickening to me how such a butchery can become the form of something that is so widespread. It wasn't originally this, the initial satanic bible contained rituals and occult knowledge, it wasn't until 2005 that it was constructed into something that has nothing to do with actual satanism and it just took off.
Trust me, as someone who's had a glimpse into the deep occult practices, there's very much still literal animal and even sometimes human sacrifice and spells so strong and effective they look like they were taken straight out of fiction. It's not rare either, they just know how to stay hidden (not that they REALLY have to try, I mean, nobody would believe these things unless they already know it's happening and most people would call it an outrageous conspiracy theory). Not saying they're all or even mostly satanists, but this is what being a satanist would involve prior to 2005. It's not a bunch of men rubbing their hands together and wondering what evil they should do first, it's gaining esoteric knowledge and power through communication and trades with demons. So no, the media didn't misunderstand or misrepresent satanists in 1999. They did try to paint goths as what goth is not, but plenty of goths were and still are interested in exactly this type of occultism, because in my opinion, being drawn to and trying to unveil the mysterious is a part of being a goth, no matter if this takes them in a widely accepted positive or widely accepted negative direction.
@@Toxihex
Your referring to cults like Lusiferianism which are distinctly different from Laveyan Satanism.
Satanism isn't about being an atheist. While most are atheists, it's about keeping the separation of church and state, many Satanists believe in various gods.
Yes there are alot of rebellious edgy punks who only claim the Satanist label for the image and I'd call them posers as they miss the point of what the movement's purpose is.
I'm not denying there are actual Satan worshiping cults.
But that wasn't Anton Levay's idea. He started the movement as a satire group in response to the churches persistent claim that Wiccans were Satan worshippers.
And since the 1970's this movement has been greatly misunderstood as being literal Satan worship.
I still appreciate how Marilyn Manson handled that whole situation: by refusing to further fuel the media panic with any comment. When people died, the media only cared about their ratings, and he wanted no part in that.
I like goth culture but I would not go around proclaiming myself goth because of it because I'm not
Update: has nothing to do with the video but I'm thinking about lolita fashion I'm really happy to discover this channel as I'm no long afraid to admit I love alt. Fashion
*Goth. It's capitalized....
I love your channel and I'm glad your explaining a culture that's been romanticized for a while. Even though I'm not full on gothic, I still enjoy your work, keep it up!
Thanks so much!! 🖤
@@angelabenedict no problem! I still support pastel goth anyways! #LiveAndYouLearn
Over the years, I've had many people refer to me as goth because I wear predominately black. I'll try explaining to them that goth is a subculture, which I am not a part of. I've had people still insist that I was a goth because of my clothes. I wear metal shirts most of the time. While sometimes I may wear some gothic-style pieces, I in no way try to represent a group that I do not belong to.
I get called a feminist all the time because I call people like MGTOW out on their bullshit. Pretty sure I've been deemed a nazi AND a communist in replies under the same comment. People will slap stickers on anything they don't understand so they can pretend to understand it better.
Me and my sister grew up both really into the goth subculture(still are) I always found it funny when people would compare us to bridgete and ginger from ginger snaps haha. But we got all there stereotypes like you are a devil worshipper, you cut yourself, you do heavy drugs like heroin. And one thing I also thought was just dumb is when we were young (we're Mexican) before we even knew the music and culture around it people would call us Goth because we had long dark brown hair almost black. and I was always like so every ethnic person with dark brown and black hair is goth? ugh. Dealing with ignorance can be a mess and a half.
Honestly people will call anyone with dark hair and happen to wear darker colors even if the person is not Goth so it's not surprising lol.
@@KaiDecadence that is very true!
If you have dark hair and pale skin, people assume that too.
@@vampireleniore That too lol
heroin ... there ain't no 'e' at the end...learn how to spell dingy broad
I genuinely don't get why they so badly want to call themselves "goth." They justify calling themselves that by saying they're just the next evolution of goth, but in order to be the next evolution, you at least have to stay somewhat true to the roots of it all. They clearly don't care about the subculture, the history and especially the music. Hell, they barely even care about the fashion besides just wearing black clothes (sometimes not even that much). Still, I legitimately don't get why they want to call themselves goth so much.
They could just call themselves "edgy". That doesn't rip off any subculture. So even if that title is wrong, it only becomes humorous instead of potentially damaging.
Always keeping the tea HOT Angela ☕☕☕
Well stated again Kai, and we aren't a hashtag is right!
I've always appreciated your experience and perspective during these discussions. I come here for intellectual stimulation as well as learning more about the subculture. Great Video. 🖤
"goth" soundcloud rap needs a new name, bc it totally can exist as its OWN subculture (like emo or scene, they DEF separated off as their own!) Yeah it sucks, but you know what? We should be accepting to these new generational subcultures as a way to separate them from actual Goth! Theres plenty of babybats lost in that soundcloud scene bc of circumstance/figuring it out right? So by yelling at them "get out of our subculture!" wont help. Let them form their own identity overtime, and along the way help them figure it out too
I get what you mean. My concern is really as it's always been, the babybats. We love the subculture and we want it to grow, right? That's why I really try to keep them informed, help them find music, feel included, dispel goofy assed misconceptions. The thing about tacking on 'Goth' to their music is that young goths are now being targeted and for the girls, the 'normal' boys that once bullied or hurled an insult their way are now sexualizing them because of the image that it portrays. They want their 'big tiddy goth gf'.
Yes totally agree. What gets me pissed off when ppl associate Goth with drugs, violence and sexual misconduct. I take immense pride in our subculture. Goths are usually well read, poetic, kind, open minded, and artistic. And it pains me to see the misinformation that people have when they see others like Baby Goth and belive that is what our subculture stands for and is.
Angela Benedict oh absolutely, i HATE HATEEEE the big tiddy goth gf shtick..but again! maybe its time to rename them? bc i saw "memes" of it and the pictures they use to describe these "goth girls" are just jock girls in all black! honestly maybe Joth IS appropriate...once theres a separate id and name the fetishization of goth and misunderstandings will clear up between the subcultures... we'll only know with time, every generations got something...maybe 2020 is this (unfortunate but better than nothing)
I'm a bit of a baby bat myself, and there really aren't any real baby bats left. It's all faux goth girls. I just want friends like me, not this Soundcloud rapper mess. I get so excited when I hear there's a goth girl near me, but they turn out to be... This. It's so hard to do because of this trend.
Well said, and I'm not even technically a Goth. I considered getting into the subculture because my first crush was Lydia from Beetlejuice, but in the end I decided the steampunk subculture was where I belonged - I even wrote a steampunk novel after this realization. Despite not being one of you, I love Goths and will always defend your culture from the people who are corrupting it
For me, goth was a thing I used to connect with people when it felt like I didn't have anyone else to turn to. They were there waiting for me with open arms and I couldn't have been more grateful. I totally understand the frustration when it comes to others trying to force their way into the subculture, or trying to adopt things that make us, us.
I may not dress or look goth anymore, and the music I make isn't really part of the sub culture but the ideologies from times past still remain.
Fyi, not a soundcloud rapper. I make Retrowave, which in itself can be somewhat tied to goth culture, but only really through Darkwave and subject matter. One thing's for certain, you won't hear about drugs and guns.
I love Retrowave! Do you have a link to your music?
@@angelabenedict Sure do, my youtube channel has some of my stuff on it, but also soundcloud.com/xeranxies and also xeranxies.bandcamp.com ^_^
Some of my stuff on soundcloud is a bit of a mixed bad but yeah, don't judge my old shit too harshly :p
Edit:
ruclips.net/video/Urw1uD-98Jw/видео.html this is my (first) album
Defend your subculture!!!!
Incidentally, I'm black and I've been into some goth since the 1980s: Cocteau Twins, Joy Division, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy etc. Keep up the good work, sister!
Absolutely. Call out fake Goth social media users, too.
I’m very very much a metalhead but I also dress very very goth because I like the fashion. People always ask me “so are you goth?” and when I answer no, they respond “yes you are” like no??? I think this is a result of what you’re talking about in this video. You explained very well :)
Thank you for calling yourself a metalhead who likes goth fashion. I have met a love of people like that who just call themselves goth.
I dont know what I am, I usually dress goth in fashion and I like goth music, post punk, synthpop, dark industrial, cyber goth, some synthwave, & most metal music, especially metal bands like Kamelot. Can't stand all rap tho, I've tried to like it, I really have, but I just can't.
Vampireleniore That’s no problem. I’ve seen a lot of people like that too, mostly on Instagram. Pretty annoying.
God i remember coming across baby goth on RUclips while looking for goth bands. I was so friggin confused as to why the hell this was in my recommends. The music was absolutely horrendous and it pissed me off something fierce. These people used to ne the one who made fun of, beat up, and utterly degraded us for daring to be goth. Now suddenly they wanna try and force their way in?! Get bent!
The comment you made about metal heads is very funny. My brother is the lead guitarist to a heavy metal band called Forsakken and they are working on their third album right now. He's been a metal head since he was 14 years old. He's now 48. I could so imagine him falling out of his seat and smacking his palm onto his forehead and yelling "What The F#@K" if he saw or heard of someone doing what you said. LOL!
The word Goth does get thrown around so willy-nilly to the point that it sometimes makes me question myself if I am actually Goth. The good news is whenever I feel this way I reexamine myself and do the research as well. In doing so I get reassured and I realize that I AM who I think I am. And that perhaps I have been almost my whole life but I just never realized until I got much older. I just matured to the point that I stopped caring about other's opinions and started being true to my soul and mind. Soon on Feb. 19th I will be turning 52 years old and I am happy being a Goth. Not because it is the trend. I know what a trend is. I have a degree in Fashion design from the Fashion institute of Technology and it's mandatory to learn about trends in that college. If I wanted to be trendy I would have dressed like Ariana Grande and listened to Cardi B. But instead I choose to just be me whether I fit in the Goth subculture or not. It's OK to just do you. In my case I am a Christian, anti drug, anti gun, Dominican/American, New York without a single tattoos and I like Goth music even though I like many other things as well. Yeah, I know. I'm weird. But in this day and age, who isn't. LOL! 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤
Oh my goddess, thank you so much for sharing the goths of colour on your channel! I was so sad when I heard that Fred Smith had passed away. Strange Boutique was one of the bands that I first fell in love with, and seeing Smith in the band made me feel that I had a place, that it was okay to be Black and goth. But seriously, "goth soundcloud rap"??? Why???
The circumstances were very sad as well. I hope they find who did this to him.
“Clowncar Wiener mobile” 🤣🤣🤣 “furby + toaster” 🤣 I was laughing so hard at this. But really, there isn’t a better description of that wreck you are describing. I always thought the embarrassing part of the subculture was cybergoth. Thank you for putting up a dam so this swill doesn’t enter our oceans. ❤️
Thank you for making this. If I had a penny for every time a kid from school comes up to me and asks if I listen to some goth SoundCloud rapper or just assume I do and reference them I would be rich. I’ve been the only goth kid at my school since seventh grade (I’m in 11th now) and it’s led to a lot of assumptions and stereotyping because of the rise of “goth SoundCloud” rappers. It’s been especially getting on my nerves lately and it was awesome to see that you made this🖤
Thank you. Literally. From a personal perspective, because a lot of the soundcloud rappers aren't these impressionable young teens, they are people my age (early 20s). Most of these people were PoS toward goth people in high school. It's forgivable to see young kids have a babybat phase, but people who used to actively bully the kids they perceived as goth don't get to have a goth phase. And it's not just this new wave of SC rappers. I also see a lot of "hipsters" (Look at MGMT or The Garden or Pitchfork's goth playlist for example) that would make fun any girl wearing dark lipstick in 2010 , or in fact any girl that wasn't a Zooey Deschanel clone, but now wants a grungy, artsy "goth" gf with Lord Farquaad bangs and think they're more goth than people that have been in the scene for decades because Velvet Underground and the Smiths.
velvet underground? huh? who listens to velvet undg and think they're goth.
@@im_so_bored3896 Pitchfork hipsters that also think MCR is super goth and anything that's not ~mainstream~ in the subculture qualifies; they would know better than anyone who's been goth for more than the 3 weeks they've been because their natural hipster genius. 😂
@@louisebaker8571 ah i see. well damn haha.
@@im_so_bored3896 If it wasn’t for The Velvet Underground, there’d be no Bauhaus or Joy Division, so you can use that as a sign post to the real stuff.
@@chrishenniker5944 fair enough, this comment is old. In the mean time I learned of the massive influence VU had on both goth and punk. Especially venus in furs on goth, sounds down right hypnotic and dark.
THANK YOU FOR THIS. FINALLY someone SPEAKING UP ABOUT THIS. I get called an elitist for telling them that they are not goth. I am so sick of seeing girls wearing dark clothes and black lipstick and they call themselves “goth”.
Yes! Another thing, is I have notices that a lot of people try to act the part, look the part & point fingers at people for being gatekeepers but they dont even realize they are the gatekeepers themselves. Its just annoying! I have watched one individual in particular who changed what it seems like overnight... they flaunt about a subculture they dont take part in in real life but somehow take credit for being authentic? The rest of us fight against it after a while. We try to be welcoming & open but it does get taken too far... at some point, I hate that social media determines your legitimacy & its such a false representation of what we really are.. I am heavily associated with the Industrial scene but I was introduced through goth. I am proud to be a Rivethead & I am glad you covered this topic!! Lots of goths I know dont dress the part anymore but are some of the most respected elders I have ever come across. The whole soundcloud thing pisses me off too... a lot of stuff that is "goth" on social media does.. never invite Facebook "goths" to an actual club night/gathering because they wont show up.. keep going against the fucking grain Angela! This is something that needed to be addressed & I'm glad you said it!
Thank you for this and speaking about this, I've been seeing this happening very actively at a worse rate over the years and I have not seen any actually goths speak about this. I hope this sheds some light and tear down this trend because it brings a dark light onto actual goths even poc goths. The fashion labels like dollskill make goth look like it's a trend and overprice their ideal label goth clothing. What people associate goth nowadays with tumblr aesthetics just makes it look like a joke
I feel self conscious to call myself goth because well I love the culture and style and I’ve never synced with something so well! But I don’t use makeup and I’m not pale. It makes me feel like I don’t belong in a way, i don’t know.. ahah online I just see beautiful goth girls with gorgeous dark makeup and I’m so bare faced wearing like victorian esk clothes
Complexion has nothing to do with goth. There are goths in every skin color that exists.
Angela Benedict
Definitely! It’s just always been something that made me self conscious, not wearing make up and such.
Im sure as I get older and grow within the community I can come to understand how to love myself no matter if I wear makeup or not.
Awesome video! I started to notice that it’s getting worse, but SoundCloud goth rap?? Yikes.
I went in optimistic expecting something dark...Nope.
I love She Wants Revenge! ❤
Also, I absolutely agree. The fact that people make those connections to goths is so wrong.
I love how right off the bat you mention that a Goth can have interests and even musical tastes outside the realm of what is typical in the Goth subculture. For example, I love many forms of music outside the realm of Goth or it's many sub-genres, such as Darkwave, Industrial, and metal, and.. believe it or not, classical (One of my favorite genres of music- outside of goth- is actually symphonic metal.) Additionally, intellectually, I am a psychology geek and in college majoring in Psychology. I find it fascinating. Outside of college, I am a huge gamer. Again, not something typically associated with the Goth subculture, but who cares? Thank you for stating this and doing so up front.
Tell it Angela... TELL IT. Haha Yep, you pretty much nailed why this "trend" is an insult to our subculture and why something as repugnant as that will never be Goth. You can't just slap on some black, some dark makeup, and call yourself Goth when it's clear you don't know anything about it. These soundcloud rappers are the Mall Goths from the 2000s and I don't feel bad saying that. Because the Mall Goths did the same thing where they didn't know Goth music, tried their hardest to live up to negative stereotypes that the mainstream put on Goths (Being devil worshipers, self-harming, trying to scare people, and drugs). This "Soundcloud Rap" is not any different in my eyes and it definitely needs to be called out before it creates some serious negativity to what Goth really is about. And I could just let this BS slide if it wasn't trying to attach itself to Goth but unfortunately, that's not the casse and this why it's good that people like you, Accumortis, and everyone else speaking out against this is a necessary thing.
People can say "Oh you're just taking yourselves too seriously" and "You need to take those sticks out of your asses" and of course the "Why do you care?" spheal but when you do something that negatively affects something you care about (in this case, Goth), OF COURSE we're gonna care, we're apart of the subculture and considering that Goth is the only alternative subculture that gets this bullshit, it's absolutely necessary for us to stand up and defend it.
Anyway I've said enough ,don't want this comment to become a huge mountain of text and you know me, I can prattle on for days on things like this LOL Just all around, eloquently put video, agree tenfold with what you said here.
Angela, your videos like this about the subculture are something I really treasure. I started in on it as an adult and had a LOT of misconceptions about what it was and where it came from until I started doing more of my own research into what I was getting involved in. Your videos have really helped me disabuse myself of a lot of false notions like the ones you talk about in this video - like blindly accepting the idea of calling anything even slightly edgy "goth" on social media. It's funny - to this day I will sometimes encounter other goths in public and find myself getting nervous out of this lingering sense that they're a "real goth" and I'm not, or at best a late-comer baby bat.
I cannot express how much I appreciate this video.
3:23 - 3:30 is gonna be my yearbook quote. Thank you so much for confronting this epidemic, I have been so curious on how you felt about rappers such as Baby Goth. Some girls at my school claim to be goth, i’ve tried chatting with them to see what music they liked and they said Baby Goth and Travis Scott was their favorite, it’s unbelievable that this is happening. It makes me so angry.
uh no.....wanna be metal heads are a real thing lol. Ive encountered many. Goths are not the only ones this happens to.
Band tees used as fashion without ever listening to the music is rather prevalent. 😂
What drives me nuts, are the metalheads who are willing to destroy each other if we like different subgenres in the metal culture.
Society comes at us enough, we need to unite as long as we legit love the sounds.
@@genchilla7117 It's infuriating when you're wearing your favorite band tee in high school and some ditzy girl loves your shirt only because it "looks cool" even though you have FOUR of their albums and can name their original lineup and wear the exact same shirt in community college, and I get either stared at or laughed at
@@miriamreinhardt8939 Most of the time in high school I was made fun of for what I listened to and what I wore. I found a little more leniency in college but not by much. Living in the bible belt tends to get you disapproving looks. I think what gets me the most is now its looked at as trendy by a lot of people when just a few years ago you could be ostracized and harassed for it.
@@genchilla7117 I'm from North Carolina, which is in the Bible Belt
my aunt was goth in the 80', she's the first who made me listen to the music that she loved and still listen (around my 10yo so late 90')
she still have all of her clothes, shoes, jewels. I felt in love with goth music, aesthetic.
and here I am, 30yo, still in love, and now this is me who made listen to her music haha
(sorry if my English is not that good I'm French ^^')
I do not know why RUclips recommended this to me, but I sat down and watched the whole video. As a metalhead I kind of get what you mean by the video and it would infuriate me also. Especially the fear mongering by the media.
this is one of my favorite videos I've seen in a while, love ur knowledge and presentation of the topic. kind of sucks that goth/alternative people have been ostracized for their interests and choice of dress for decades but someone decided pale white girls wearing black lipstick are hot and now it's a fashion trend [POC!! goths!! exist!!]. the same types of people who made fun of me in school several years back for the way I dressed are now trying to be a 'goth gf' and it upsets me to see them shitting all over a subculture that I care about when I'm fairly certain they would find it unappealing if they even did surface level research into any music/literature/history.
In my experience, most of the "goth" Soundcloud rappers are white, so I'm not sure that anyone would jump to the racism conclusion about disliking them. I don't even think that rap and goth are necessarily totally incompatible, but Soundcloud rappers are just a big no for me.
Agreed. That's what I found when researching them as well but I know that people will jump to the conclusion of my nay-saying rap automatically meant racism so I wanted to close that gap before they even thought to leap in.
Not sure what Soundcloud is. I'm old school. Rap and goth are miles away to me. Punk, alternative and some metal are much closer.
@@JNoMooreNumbers Eh... Punk sure if we're talking old school Punk and not Pop Punk but not really generic Alternative and especially not Metal.
wasn't there witchhouse? Which was kinda interesting
@Daniel Peters yup......
Excellent points and examples, including some dang amazing bands. Your makeup and bat necklace are lovely. (You are always lovely, with and without accessories). I love stuff that happened before the 80's, too, like castles, churches, cemeteries, lace, antique jewelry and art, and velvet, as well as Bach, Beethoven and Brahms. It's amazing how many things can fit into the Goth culture. It is astounding how many things people attempt to fit into the culture that do not remotely go with it. The whole rap, criminal syndicate thing is bizarre to me, way more than even runway models wearing a little black clothing and makeup and being labelled "goth". Thanks for speaking up about this stuff. Many blessings to you.
I miss payphones. They were still being used when i was in high school. Only the wealthy kids had Nokia green screen phones then samsung and lg flipphones lol
I just recently went on vacation and saw that a stripping mall had a pay phone by the rest rooms. Kids were playing with it (taking selfies) like it was an artifact.
@@angelamartinez4551 I miss the old school German yellow phone booths. Always a good connection, shelter from rain and snow when calling someone and privacy. No one could eavesdrop. And you never had to worry about the phone dying.
@@angelamartinez4551 😂😂 stupid kids
Just saw my notification and thought "Goth queen Angela is rambling again, how lovely" and then after saying YASSS to everything you said I screamed because you included She Wants Revenge and I'm seeing them on February 23 :') lol.
Aww!
lol this reminds me of a few weeks ago when i was hanging out with my cousin and her friend. So, im playing a switchblade symphony song on the tv and her friend asks me what type of music this is, i reply simply with, "goth". This dude so rudely decides to stop my song, and play a lil peep song and proceeds to tell me, "oh you like goth, you must like this". This was so cringy lol smh. If he cant tell the difference in sounds between those 2 artists, i, i just cant lol.
I would have to suppress the urge to hit him in the face with a sheet pan.
@@angelabenedict lmao
This video is incredibly intelligible and digestible. As someone that was a lovely goth child from early teens onward (that’s veered from the subculture and aesthetic but not the musicality as I’ve gotten older), I appreciate the stridency, firmness, and understanding you project throughout this video. Thank you for this! 🥰
(As a side note, I get super covetous of my DCD collection and hardcover Anne Rice books. Also! your GOC shoutout in general but specifically to Lorita Grahame [and may I throw in my homelands’ favorites She Past Away and Mizar]) melted my heart.
I'd never even heard of goth rap until this. Listening to some of it, I wish I still hadn't.
I just commented on Accumortis' video and I wanted to pop back over here and thank you for spotlighting it! Now I can say that I am gothic rather than goth, so that way when I converse with goths I meet, I don't feel like a poser for not avidly listening to the music but adopting the darkly inclined clothing and lifestyle. Thank you both, you're truly awesome!
I'm a Goth, and we Goths have lots of friends who are Gothic. They are awesome.
If this is our biggest problem, we're doing quite well. Imitation is natural.
Thank you so much for adding the section about people of colour who have contributed to the scene, that just made my heart swell. I don't particularly identify as goth because even I worry about labelling myself without truly understanding it but at least I listen to some goth music and not soundcloud rappers
Truer words never spoken.
i have never agreed with something more. thank you so much for making this video and speaking of something that is so important to not only me but the entire subculture!
Labels are meh - wear what you want, listen to what you want to and like what you like.
oh no apparently people need permission to identify with a subculture from delusional gate keepers like this chick right here. maybe we should ask if we can wear the colour black while we're at it 🙄.
@@im_so_bored3896that is not what she is saying. She telling you what the goth subculture is about and how it has been used in wrong context.
This was an amazing video Angela. Though I'm not goth, I appreciate the fashion an incredible amount and follow many goth RUclipsrs! Videos like this remind me why I love the subculture so much and why it fascinates me. Good on you for speaking out and speaking truth to show why you love it so much ❤
Umm... goth rap? WTF? What are these people claiming makes this goth? Different colored hair? Old ladies dye their hair purple, does that make them granny goth? Um no. This blows my mind. I had no clue about the "goth" rap thing until now and it makes my stomach turn. I just watched part of a Baby Goth video and couldn't make it through it. There was nothing goth about it. Ugh! In this day and age, this is just horrible. I have never known a violent goth. I know many that eschew drugs altogether. It makes no sense. Thanks for bringing this out in to the open Angela.
Uh...is granny goth a real thing...can this be a real thing...corsets and giant shoes hurt i want to wear my walkin' shoes and my cardigains and a visor and be cozy...but keep it in a dark aesthetic....granny goth
@@bitterbat1952 - No such thing a granny goth as far as I know. I was just making a silliness comparison. My point it dying your hair a different color doesn't make you goth. Goth rap is as ridiculous as the thought of granny Goth as a branch of Goth. But I think the thought of a gaggle of granny goths are way more agreeable than what people are calling Goth rap. :)
@@bitterbat1952 lmao
Thank you, Angela... you remain the only good youtuber that addresses anything honestly, ethically and from a valid (and historically so) standpoint.
it's worth adding however, that Goth is not only born alongside Punk **equally**, but it also like punk, but more so, owes to Ted (the original music subculture).
I'm lucky to have parents to see our subculture as what it is. An amazing community of people who share many interests, especially in music, style, literature, etc. and honor the history. Rappers who claim the title "Goth" and bring shame to the rest of us angers me greatly. Of course, as you said, not everybody shares these interests 100%, and that's OK. The worst part is, however, that no matter how hard we try to get Goth represented for what it truly is, there will always be a loud minority to ruin our image.
Well said. I have never really been part of the IRL community (only forums back in the day, or currently some social media groups), so I don't call myself Goth even when I feel so identified with many aspects. Thus, it really bothers me that people who don't have any actual idea about anything feel they are more entitled to call themselves Goth when I, who have been in love with most aspects of the subculture and learning about it for nearly 20 years, don't dare to do it. Seriously, it's infuriating.
The funny thing is a majority of these 'goth' rappers don't even claim to be goth. It's really the fans who want to label it as such. Baby goth, who recently came out with an interview was explaining her fast come up and her choice of having goth in her name, said it was like a 'goth sub genre' that describes herself, like pastel goth...yeah. After the video I read some comments and it's apparent that these fans are really confused. You have her 'haters' saying, 'if she's a real goth rapper she would be doing horror core rap'. You seriously got poseurs calling out poseurs...it's weird. I personally listen to some of these artists mainly the ones with a very aggressive style b/c Goth music doesn't really help me when I want to release anger (and I got anger issues). Goth music helps me to relax or feel pumped up at times but doesn't full fill my need as an anger release. Being fans of both rap and goth puts me in a weird position b/c I really cringe out of embarrassment b/c of these hipster kids who just want a label (majority of their fans aren't like this anyways).
I love how you included some goths of colour who contribute through music (I just found out about Light Asylum they sound awesome too). 2 years ago was my first time even listening to goth music. Growing up I didn't see black people represented as being alternative and heard it was a 'white thing'. Some of these rappers listen to alternative music, incorporate alternative fashion in their style and share their taste in alternative music in interviews or their social media. In a way they can be a gateway for other people of colour to feel confident enough to try out this subculture or others.
Yes I’m really glad that there are POC bands out there considering I’m a black girl myself who’s alternative and occasionally listens to goth music and metal
Aubrey Alternative It kind of sucks that I didn’t even know one of them but that just means I got more music to listen too
"You seriously got poseurs calling out poseurs...it's weird."
Ha, you just reminded me of the infamous Harry Potter fanfic, My Immortal! The mallgoth, Mary Sue keeps referring to those who don't like MCR and don't shop at HotTopic as posers. You can find readings of it on RUclips, although I'm pretty sure the author is a troll. It's still funny though, and further proves this phenomena of "edgy" teens and "goth" name brands appropriating the subculture is not new.
Small Town Goth yeah it’s actually really creepy. They seriously believe just listening to dark music makes you a goth. It’s pretty toxic to watch...and super cringy.
OMG! I had no idea about this shit. Baby Goth? I'm speechless.
3:19 not only Goth. There are way more that had suffered from this kind of appropriation. In ACG-based subculture communities China there is a phrase, DSSQ(大势所趋), which means "the will of the majority", it represents the misinterpretation and appropriation of subculture memes/beliefs/conceptions (to the mainstream) shown just like this example.
That's something really interesting to learn about.
I think the music is a huge part of it. That's how I dove in. Fashion is another way to express it and be a part of it.
This is definitely a well thought out argument. I disagree with a few points. Namely the assumption that the Goth Subculture somehow is the only group with “fakes.” I've encountered plenty of wannabe metalheads- thought I don't think that was entirely what you meant. I don't take any issue with splinter groups of the subculture. Personally, I would love to hear what Goth music and Rap's storytelling elements would sound like. I feel like there is a lot of potential with the fusion of those two genres. I haven't listened to “Goth Rap” much myself because most of what I find just sounds like violence without substance.
I’m 16 years old and I’m relatively new to the goth subculture (2 years) and most recently people have been bringing these awful people who are setting a bad example to my attention. A few weeks ago, 2 boys in one of my classes asked me if I listened to goth rap. When I first heard it I was like “there’s no such thing as goth rap” (mostly because the music I’ve really been into are bands like The Cure, Joy Divison, H.I.M, and New Order) So I was never expecting rap to be apart of this culture. As I kept telling them it was non existent, one of the boys decided to pull up a page of a soundcloud rapper who posts under the genre of “emo rap” and it made me really sad that people are so ignorant to the differences between the two because I really thought we were over the whole “grouping goth and emo thing”
This is one of the problems that the association with soundcloud rap causes. It has to be very frustrating as a teenager when you're still forging your path. You have a community of people who support you, don't let these jerks get you down.
I'm in no way goth myself(?) but I love your channel. You have a really good way with words and I really appreciate goth culture.
Accumortis made a great video about this topic as well.
Yes, he did. I saw it as well.
I love how you thoroughly explain your reasoning!
As usual your video strikes oil in its content and ruffles the feathers of all the posers who are equivalent to ticks to the subculture i and many others prize so much. I myself have my own genre's that I enjoy along with goth and as a goth of colour myself I thank you for that segment most would never put in due to the belief of goth = pale vampire evil... Thank you for your content and yes our culture is no dumbasses Hashtag... May the darkness light your path forward
Omg thank you soooooo much I could not as a goth for many many years have said it better myself having children that love and respect and that are in the subculture like myself it bonds us as mother and sons we share a love for something that doesn't make me a bad mother for showing my boys the beauty in the darkness...music ... poetry.... fashion and I'm here to tell you not a single one of my children have ever been in trouble they all have beautiful careers from the medical field all the way to a funeral director such as myself ...beautiful families & we share a beautiful love.
OMG, at furries took some shrooms and f*d a typewriter! 😂😂😂
I've never heard of soundcloud goth rap. I'm definitely going to look that one up. I must be way out of the loop on what is going on, or maybe I'm just getting old. We didn't have internet and social media when I was a fledgeling goth, just mail-order cassettes and band tee shirts that you cut out from the back of magazines (please allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery). I enjoyed the video. It's a good topic.
😕 Honestly I think posers who call themselves goth just want to be called goth as like a superficial and egotistical thing and don’t really care about the subculture as a whole. Anyone else agree? :(
I'm gonna listen to She wants revenge after this video. That's a cool sound. Again, I'm not into 90% of Goth music, I'm more on the literature side of things, so I'm always happy to find some new music I could possibly like! :D
Literature is Gothic. Music is Goth.
Girl, I just went on this very tangent earlier today. Maybe that's what kicked off my migraine?
As a Goth, I thought I was overrating on this subject & people irritating me posting & recognizing themselves as Goth, when I know damn well they are not. Thank you for this video! Now I know it's not just me...
It's definitely not just you.
I agree with what you said about soundcloud rappers, but if I were younger, let's say 13-16, all I'd have taken away from this video is "you're not goth enough".
I'm into several different alternative subcultures and can still be a pert of them even if my life doesn't completely revolv around them. That's fine. I'm into Visual Kei big time and have been since 2009. And I'm still a part of this subculture even though I haven't actuvely caught up with it in some months. I love Metal, I've grown up with it. Doesn't mean I'm not a metalhead because one of my favourite artists is Ed Sheeran. Even though you addressed this at the beginning of the video, to me it still sounded like "yeah, you might like some goth things, but you're not goth enough to call yourself that".
I don't know why alternative cultures always feel the need for such heavy gatekeeping. If someone's misinformed about goth, visual kei, whatever other subculture I'm into, I'm happy to educate them on the topic instead of acting aggressive. Because that gives subcultures bad reps just as much as people misinterpreting them.
My first intro into goth was Specimen The beauty of poison. My first love is metal but when I heard Specimen I decided that I am also this.
YASS!!! I have been waiting for someone to talk about this!!!
I'm glad you appreciate it! A few people have. Accumortis did an incredible job bringing light to this. 💜
@@angelabenedict Ooh I'll check them out!