Fram PH25 Oil Filter vs. 39 Yr. Old Fram PH25 Oil Filter Cut Open Comparison
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- Опубликовано: 26 окт 2023
- Oil Filter Inspection. #Mobil #Motorcraft #Supertech #Wix
Today we'll compare a New Fram PH25 ExtraGuard oil filter to a 39-Year-Old Fram PH25 oil filter. Let's open them up and see if they are made better now or then!
Fram PH25 Extra Guard oil filter: www.walmart.com/ip/FRAM-Extra...
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around 83-84 is a good guess, since they still say Bendix, Allied bought Bendix in 1983, then Allied merged with Signal in 1985, I've seen some old boxes that said "Allied Automotive" on them, but most of the pre-Honeywell filters I've seen were Allied-Signal, so what you have there was probably one of the filters made in the last little bit that they said Bendix on the box before they changed it to say Allied Automotive for a while before finally becoming Allied-Signal which is probably the most recognized owner of Fram since they printed that on the box from some point in the 80s until the early 2000s when they finally updated the ExtraGuard and ToughGaurd boxes to say "a Honeywell Corporation" on the back and I don't think theyever put a Honeywell logo on the front part of the package like they did with Allied-Signal. Although the thing with Honeywell is that it actually was Allied-Signal, since Allied-Signal acquired Honeywell around 1999-2000 and decided to use the Honeywell name.
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What? No Chinese involvement?
I know Mexico is quite involved in Fram filter production. Or, at least was. I stopped following them just like Westinghouse.
All just names now/ the product doesn't mean much anymore. But Mexico can be both good and bad. Just depends on what you are buying at the time I guess.
Value engineering.
My vote goes to the old filter.
We used the orange can of death all the time back in the seventies, never had any problems.
But back then, a car with 100,000 miles on it was considered done. Spent. Be burning oil & leaking all over by then.
The key is to change it within a reasonable time frame
No#1 selling filters in the world for a reason. I put 2 on yesterday and loving those paper end caps!
I have a couple vintage fram filters I will eventually use for S&G's and seeing this I am not worried about it at all.
Wow great video. Wow I need to start buying old oil filters and start storing them for future videos for you
Thanks Wrenching👍
Back in the day ( and I mean way back in the day) cars didn't come with oil filters. It was optional for a price at one time ( in my dad's time, not mine).
So that being said. Even FRAM was better than nothing.
The history of the progression of engines is full of interesting facts and new ideas.
Oil filters were just one of those new ideas!
A very good comparison. 1984, that was a good year! Miss those times! Anyways, nice sharing and thanks for sharing. Merri :)
Thanks, Merri
1984 was a good year, I miss them times also👍
The 80's were a decade of great music. Talking about 1984 VH.
Here supporting your great channel with a full watch 👍
Thanks Missy,
I Appreciate it😊👍
Great comparison of old vs. new Fram. Thank you.
You're Welcome👍
Thanks!
There is nothing wrong with a fram. The key is to change it often.
I really appreciate and enjoy these filter videos
You're Welcome Greg,
Glad you like them
Thank You!👍
I remember those old boxes. I love the past. Used to be the filter we would only buy. Honestly never had a problem. Ive moved on from fram now but those weren't a bad looking filter. Hope u have a good weekend!
Thanks, Ed
Have a good weekend also👍
Same here, I've used Fram filters growing up and never had an engine fail.
Best oil filter autopsy channel on RUclips! Thanks
Thank You!👍
I Appreciate It😊
One thing I do remember about the older filters, is they provide a cross reference of equivalent filters from other brands. The website does provide that now, but it's no longer on the boxes.
Carquest still does that on all their filters.
I am pretty sure the last STP cabin air filter I used listed cross reference numbers as well.
Thank you for your videos!!!
You're welcome,
Thank You!
100s of millions of these were used with 3-4000 mile changes. We had an old Toyota truck that was at almost 800,000 last we knew of that used Frams exclusively..
First thing I noticed is this run of the mill oil filter cost almost $4 twenty-five years ago? Wow Kmart wasn't cheap.
My dad was a dir hard fram guy, and he always used the Fram ph filters with the paper end caps and never had a problem. After watching your video's, i now use the Fram xg filters. I feel the metal end caps are a better way to go. My car has a turbo on it and the Xg filter is the way to go.
Thanks for Sharing,
I prefer the metal endcaps also.
So old that it has a $3,77 K Mart sticker on it !
True that. Back in the day, used buy some oil filters a KMart. Lee was one brand I purchased.
Hi Pete,
I really enjoy the new/old comparison videos. Almost 40 years and not much has changed from a technology standpoint. Both filters look like good filters for every day use. Amazing how the fiber end caps were in use then as now. Have a nice weekend!
Thank Kevin,
have a Great weekend also👍
back then in around 1990s consumer reports did a test on oil filters and Fram won for best filtering of oil.
all kinds of filter reviews say they are terrible with paper that will fall apart i have yet to see any case of one of these filters falling apart or clogging engine used them for 40 years i upgraded to the ultra-synthetic lately but not because of any problems with basic one.
I used to use them also back then, these days I'm using the Purolator Boss.
Thanks for Sharing👍
Cool video! Funny I stumbled onto it because I just found an older Fram filter dated 1994, and I was wondering if the media material could have been compromised over time, or if I should just screw it on and go.
1985 was the first time I cut open a Fram filter and discovered those cardboard end caps. I stopped using Fram filters then and did not resume until the 2000s when Fram came out with their Ultra filters with metal endcaps.
Not cardboard.
It’s an engineered fiber and all it has to do is stay glued to the filter media to seal the ends.
Yeah, Fram prefers to call the end caps, "engineered fiber." to the Fram purest calling it cardboard is equivalent to heresy. 😄 Cardboard is also "engineered fiber".
I bet that string around the media was hand-tied at the factory.
I just changed the oil on my old Jeep Cherokee at 3000 miles. I had noticed about a week before I changed it that the the oil filter had started leaking. The last time I changed the oil, Walmart was out of the filter I normally use (Mopar m090) so I used the Fram ultra synthetic (gold). When I removed the fram filter I noticed that the gasket had gone concave and had developed a couple small dimples in it.
Lesson learned....I stopped usIng the "orange can of death" and Fram in general years ago. I guess even their higher end filters are garbage too. No more Frams!!
I don't think I've ever heard about their gaskets being bad. Thanks for Sharing
@@WhipCityWrencher yeah it was a surprise to me too. I've never had a gasket go bad in a filter before. I'm 56 and have always changed my own oil so that's a lot of oil changes and this was a first for me.
👍🏼 You doing right thing (stop buy this crap)!!!
Hi whip great info as always full watch have a great weekend 👍
Hi Christina, Thank You!
Have a Great weekend also 👍
YaY to Derek for sending this filter to You! Interesting video! Definitely would choose the old filter. It has so much more filter media. Another great comparison! Thanks for sharing! Have a Great Weekend! 👍😊
Hi Ella, Thanks!
Have a Great Weekend also😊👍
@@WhipCityWrencher👍😊
👍
Worked for a large construction company and we were using wixs filters and started having hydraulic pump failures on our john deere and cat excavators started taking oil samples and the samples were horrific, we were told to use another filter brand,after much research Baldwin filters was what we started using and the samples were fantastic no more pump failures. Just something to think about. Thanks for video.
You're Welcome,
Thanks!
Adjusted for inflation
3.77 in 1984
would be $11.16 today
So I bet they cut corners to keep price down with newer one
👍
You could measure the depth of a few filter pleats then multiply that by # of pleats by that & length to provide the total square inches of filter media. Thanks for the vidios.
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I try and make an oil filter inspection video every Friday on this RUclips channel, Thank You!
Very cool! If you look at the flaps on the box of that old one there should some dates for the packaging. Year, month and week or day. I saw some numbers briefly. Should give a pretty close date when it was packaged. I used a TON of the old orange filters in the '80's. I never had a problem. I liked Wix but they were way harder to find. Fram was EVERYWHERE. I'm sure those old filters were typical cellulose blend. For a 3k change the old Fram was fine.
Hi Vince,
I just took a look at the box. It has numbers 1 through 12 going around in a clock formation with the number 3 missing, also at 11 o'clock the number 85 at 2 o'clock the number 86 at 5 o'clock the number 88 and at 8 o'clock the number 87. Looks to be some kind of date code. let me know if you can figure out a date from that.
Thanks!👍
@@WhipCityWrencher I think that would be march of 1985 without seeing it. Sometimes when they put those application lists on the box they just carry over to the next years and they don't update the print. The number missing in the wheel is the month and year is in the center of the wheel normally. I have some old Fram gas filters from the '70's-'80's (G15) that have the same date format as the filter (letter-number-number-letter). I did have a breakdown a long time ago I need to find. I think it's shift or line and week/year, but not positive. At a minimum it's week-year plus shift. Back then I believe they only had one plant. 12th week would match up to March, date on the box. V is probably the year, A first shift.
@@vincemajestyk9497 Too complicated for me. LOL
Thanks!👍
@@WhipCityWrencher Hi Pete, The box and filter were made in March for sure. The box is going to be the same year as the filter. It's easier to figure out the box year. So if 'V' represents '84 or '85 (whatever it is) the next letter represents the next year and you can backtrack using the alphabet. It's arbitrary when they start the numbering. It's really for their internal use if there's a production issue they can track it to at least the week and shift (and year). Later they got more granular down to the day. Within 4 digit places it's just shift, week and year. I checked the Fram G15 on my car and it's A8S 1st shift (day) last week Feb, S=1982 (or 1981 depending what the one you have is). Practically all cardboard packaging is dated.
A long time ago I bought a 7UP advertising clock from the early '70's (nos) 23 years ago. It got damaged in transit by UPS and they denied the claim saying "old or previously used packaging". The lady I bought it from shipped it in the original box which was from 1968 or 1970. Had the dates right on it.
I think you were right on with the date on that filter. A year or 2 either way wouldn't matter much back then. I sure don't think that old one is as bad as everybody raps it for being. That new one isn't great but I know people that use them and have 3-400k on their vehicles with regular changes. I personally wouldn't choose it but it's not going to kill the engine.
@@vincemajestyk9497 Thanks,
I don't think they're all that bad either.
I used to use Allied Signal Fram filters.. loved them and the quality. I was warned by Suppliers in 1997 that Honeywell took over and their quality was going down the drain. Sure enough it did. Most Frams today have terrible QC, especially on the Extra Guards.
Should use a thread guage 180 degrees apart to get an accurate thread count.
Both filters have there pros and cons so i'd call it a draw ! i remember using these filters long before they were coined " orange can of death " but to be honest using filters with felt end caps is a no go for me ! Cool video ! 💯
Thanks, Scotty
They aren't felt but it's really NOT a problem. Their engineers thinking, which was proven in testing, is that you achieve a STRONGER bond by joining 2 similar materials than say a smooth material like steel and dissimilar one like cellulose. Those end caps AREN"T a structural component. they're for sealing. Try ripping apart a glued fiber end cap and another filter with cellulose and steel and see which one comes apart easier or first. They've been using them since the '60's and nobody minded then (before the internet). The edges of the media pleats, like the fiber caps, have many jagged edges under a microscope that promote adhesion and sealing. The pure synthetic and blends have a smoother cut line so they use steel caps with a deep well for the glue.
That $3.77 is just over $11 in today’s dollars.
Yes. Prices have actually come down do to production improvements.
Excellent video, just goes to show you how Fram cheapened thier filters today...
Thank You👍
BTW, that old one had a date of A12V inked on it. It was horizontally placed near the tapping plate under the words 'Oil Filter'.
Yeah, but what does that decipher to?
Over the many years of diy oil changes, twice I've removed a Fram filter only to find it empty of engine oil. I stopped buying them as a result. More recently, I pulled an STP filter and found it empty as well.. I stopped buying that brand as well. Don't know why this happens, but it means there was no filtration for thousands of miles.
I’d be worrying about that string coming loose and getting sucked into the motor.
Even if it came loose it would have to go through the filter first.
What would really be cool is if you could get a bunch of OE filters and compare all the different manufactures
Dude if you was headed to 1984 I’d been happy to pay for a seat 💺! Fun times 😅.
🤣👍
seems about right: modern version "good for 10000, but we're selling you 100 sq inches less"
Yep
Hi friend great info full watch 👍
Thanks, Cassy👍
It looks as if the older is better - the difference in cost shows how the US dollar has been devalued.
I used these filters many years ago before I knew any better, but changed the oil at 3k.
🤣
Trick question. They are both ...
Not all of FRAMs oil filters are made in the United States but a majority are.
WIX supports almost every level of grassroots racing across the United States and Canada. They are the No. 1 filter in motorsports. (their text on their site)
on my Honda,I use only the OEM filter.learned from 40 years experience
See "Tire Meets Road" for Country and Manufacturer of Origin of Oil Filters (Be aware this info is 2 years old and things do change)
WIX is an American filter company with headquarters in Gastonia, NC. Since WIX is owned by filter conglomerate Mann+Hummell, many of WIX oil filters are not made in the United States
I remember those old filters. They were definitely THE filter to buy back then as they were everywhere. What I find interesting is that the newer one is not as well made as the nearly 40 year old model. You do get plenty of extra glue in the new one, though. The older filter media is probably of a cellulose variety but it will do a fine job for 5K miles. Back in 84 is was probably the best out there, today, not so much.
Hi Jim,
Remember that Fram line, "You can pay me now or pay later" LOL, I dont remember if that line was in the same time frame as this oil filter?
@@WhipCityWrencher Hey Pete, Heh heh I do remember that line and I do believe it was around the same time as this filter, MAYBE a little bit later but not by much.
In my experience, almost everything was better made 40 years ago than it is now. Profit/disposabilty trumped craftsmanship a long time ago.
Wow, I had no idea the orange can of death was better way back then! Still not a fan.
Like 40 good day friend great sharing full watch 👍
Thanks, Bo👍
Expensive filter. The $4 filter in 1984 equates to $12 in 2024.
Hi Pete another great review! I forget how some of the filter manufacturers used to put a string around the media...what was the point of this? Any ideas??
Thanks, Dan
Thanks!
I don't know what the string is all about, I heard it was a manufacturing procedure but who knows.
I worked for a small filter manufacturer back in the late 80s. The string helped the filter paper stay in place around the center tube while end caps were glued.
Thanks Pete and thank you t.hartman That makes sense. I appreciate the insight!
there are no bypass valves on these filters???
These filters were meant for engines that already have a bypass. Herr's what one looks like,www.amazon.com/ACDelco-25013759-Professional-Engine-Filter/dp/B000EPWRPM/ref=asc_df_B000EPWRPM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=598232298885&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9303330437817459213&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001685&hvtargid=pla-1660557695219&psc=1&mcid=4ee42732f733376ea478eb3aa594c2bf&gclid=CjwKCAiAsIGrBhAAEiwAEzMlC5eTYh6iklZnTDCWCkdXM59_i6pu7qnT3zA82Qa3SuwNUfAGAYs3KhoCY3QQAvD_BwE
No By-Pass Valve? So the oil flows around the medium instead of going through it?
These filters are meant to go on engines that have a separate bypass valve on the engine.
Here's a link to what some of them look like. www.amazon.com/ACDelco-25013759-Professional-Engine-Filter/dp/B000EPWRPM/ref=asc_df_B000EPWRPM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=598232298885&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12497647830102174250&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001685&hvtargid=pla-1660557695219&psc=1&mcid=26d809e829f93bc1816a2e15fee2e177
I wonder what year they started using those fiber end caps? Back years ago they were very generous with the filter media compared to today,
They began using the fiber caps in the 1960's. It was a long time ago. Back then until the 2000's all filters were predominantly cellulose. Then (late '90's-2000's) the Mfrs switched to synthetic and blends to keep up with the evolving motor oil and change intervals. All filters, no matter the Mfr, are purpose engineered or built based on the media and other components.
What me worry?
Both filters a meh, for me. Older one has more media, but vehicles run much cleaner these days. I don't believe the filter holds a quart of dirty oil, printed to encourage filter change with each oci. Can't wait to read John from Yonkers comments. 😉 Thanks for vid.
LOL,
You're Welcome faxmen09
Some of these newer engines are terrible on the oil. Not sure if it is the DI or the heat from high temp thermostats for emissions, but I've seen 5K oil look absolutely horrible.
They should put it on now. Some people actually think these filters can go 10-15-20K.
Until they blow an engine.
I've had filters that held a full quart of oil. They went on a 7.7 liter diesel motor and were ginormous. You'd have to prefill them and a quarter of the gallon would get sucked in without a problem they were WAY bigger than this one.
@@jamescaron6465 Some sites actually call larger filter options as 1 Qt filters vs 1/2 quart. I'm amazed people change oil and not the filter. But this is the brain dead world we live in these days.
Who owns FRAM this week?
I guess they were OK once upon a time.
LOL, I think it's First Brands
Still "engineered end caps* still no
Yeah, that's what Fram likes to call the end caps, "engineered fiber".. And God forbid, don't say "cardboard". Of course, cardboard is engineered fiber. 😉
old smile
I wouldn't use either of them - I'm not a fan of the non-metal endcaps. I'd spend a few dollars more.
I think the tough guard ones are metal capped
Best 0w16 oil bruh with best filter from ur advice?
U didnt state year/make of car. I'm assuming a Toyota? Anyway, "Car Care Nut" on utube has videos on Toyota's but has one on oil filters that can relate to ANY make & points out there are counterfeits out there on the internet.
Really isn't any best, as there are a lot of good oils and oil filters. My Personal favorite oils and filters at this point in time is the Pennzoil Platinum and Purolator Boss oil filters. A good oil change interval with decent oil and filter will serve you well.
@@WhipCityWrencherInstead of Pennz platinum, run Quaker Ultra Durability Synth. Same oil, no marketting budget. Or....one of the Warren Brands. Almost the same specs according to Blackstone.
I'd never run 0w16 in anything. Especially in summer.
@@GT-mn3bx Yep, you're probably right but I get the Pennzoil when they have their rebates so that works out good for me👍
i wouldn't put a Fram on my bicycle. i run dirt track cars. and a parts store sponsored. then he got a big deal with fram and he told me he wanted me to run them so i did. lost 15 psi pressure. and blew 3 engines in 3 weeks. after running all year and never used a drop of oil. had no choice while mudding stuck a stick on my oil filter. someone had a fram so i put it on got a lower end knock and lost oil pressure enough the safty kelp shutting down my engine. got home had a bad cam due to lack of oil. i will NEVER i mean NEVER put a fram on anything i own. i also buy a lot of used trucks and if the have a fram on them i dont buy them.
So you wouldn't be a 'great fan' of using a FRAM oil filter and OW-O8 oil in your brand new Toyota and changing the oil and filter every 10,000 miles?
Me neither.
I haven't used a FRAM filter since 1972. What was their ad slogan on TV back then? "you can pay me now, or pay me later" lol
Just like everything, things get cheapened
This yet another reason not to use Fram filters! I stopped using them oh say about 20 years ago. In fact, I now have a very strong dislike for Fram products period!! I stick to the good stuff and so if you don't believe me well tough!!!
The older Orange can of death FRAM 💀 looks better than the newer Orange can of death FRAM, both look as lethal with those cardboard felt endcaps, the older roll of toilet paper 🧻 gives you way more sheets ....or pleats on a crappy filter 🚽
Ha Ha😊
Not cardboard or felt. A synthetic engineered fiber. Actually easier to glue to than a hard metal surface.
New or old I would not put a Fram on anything, trash.
Thanks for your feedback
Both absolute garbage, well done Whip. I'd never fit anything made by Fram.
Thanks!
Hey, you remind me of John from Yonkers. He'd 100% agree with you.😂
An old work sock would do the trick.
@@faxmen09 You remind me of him too!
@@user-sf7kl9uh7k I don't hate ALL Fram filters. Before they cheapened the media, really liked the OG XG Ultra. I like the new Endurance filter ok, it's a little pricey though. Just not a real fan of the Fram fiber endcap filters. Based on what I've read, I think John hates anything with the name Fram on it.
The Florida pool pump motor repair guy 32750 approved ! that was good info WCW
Thanks, Jay👍