@@GabrielMicheal77710 What is even more insane is, why didn't she take the solo name??? She cared for all 3, but alas it still sad how the literally took them all out and now an palpatine takes everything
Ben Skywalker is one of my fave Legends characters, his sass and wit aside, his potential was what I found extremely interesting about him. We see glimpses of his true potential at certain points in Fate of the Jedi, specifically I believe during Apocalypse. Like being able to unleash a concentrated telekinetic blast of the Force strong enough to destroy a Capital ship, in a "holy hand grenade" on Abeloth. Or being able to achieve a form of Oneness with the Force, a state of immense power at any rate, that unlike Jacen (following his battle with Onimi) was not stated to be unachievable again. When you have literal Cthulhu from the time of Force Gods claiming Ben has the potential to become the next "Daughter", then that is high praise indeed.
Ben Skywalker was born with the Skywalker Potential along with the potential of his mother who was probably anywhere from Kenobi to Ashoka level of power
No surprise that Luke Skywalker was at the S rank on the list. This was one of your best non-VS videos I’ve seen. Since you had done a video like this, can you do a ranking video of apprentices trained by Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader? After all, we know that the Chosen One had trained a lot of Force Users in his life.
I likely think Lumiya or Mara Jade is in the top, with Ahsoka likely being the lower end of the spectrum but not the bottom, as that would be the Disney Fodder Inquisitors.
Leia had some very impressive feats in the last Legends Novel Crucible, where she was able to keep up with a Post Abeloth fight Luke. Granted, Luke wasn't at his best at the time, but together with her brother, Leia had some straight up "Anakin on Mortis" level feats (well, Crucible is weird, they might have actually BEEN on Mortis).
It was decent but nothing in Crucible compares to Mortakin dominating the two representations of Light and Darkness whose power was suggested by the Father to tear apart the fabric of the Universe. Not even close to that. Mortakin is way beyond anything from either Leia or Luke, especially since Abeloth scales below the Father on account of him being the one to personally intervene and imprison her, and Luke struggled enormously against her on multiple occasions.
@@SuperSirius11 dude eu Leia was more powerful than anakin ever was, the mortis feat is king of overrated because the planet they were was a strong force nexus anakin couldn't never archive that level of power by himself ever again because he lacks of acknowledge of the force why luke and Leia open up more to the will of the force.
Jaina actually retreated after the first duel, and as you note Jacen was focused on saving his daughter(Jaina outright admits he could end her with one final blast) he just chose not too.
True, yet some components in both duels also indicate how close and relative the adult twins are. With Battle-meditation, it can only enhance an individual to the peak of their capabilities, and minorly weaken the opposition. In the duel on Tython, Jedi masters Raskta Lsu and Valentyne Farfalla were enhanced, ye repeatedly out-fought, over-powered and dominated by Darth Bane; orbalisks aside the sheer magnitude and skill Bane carried outweighed the enhanced Jedi. And Darth Zannah managed to hold her ground against Sarro Xaj and stage manage him and Johun Othone under the detrimental side of Battlemeditation. Jaina Fel against Darth Caedus, she was much more dominant in the duel with him, and without battle-meditation she still held her own; to the point neither her nor Caedus could identify Shatterpoints in the other. Caedus did concede the fight to warn Tenel Ka and save their daughter, after Jaina managed to ambush him and still they dueleld evenly (given Caedus' own sense talents and surviving Mara jade's ambushes less wounded, that is impressive on Jaina's part).
She was dominant in the second duel because Caedus literally did not want to fight her. He would have preferred she had just walked away. Caedus had also sustained severe injuries including a severed arm and as you note his attention was divided. Jaina constantly needed Luke to either mess with Jacen’s visions, outright projected force illusions or other amplifications. And even then when Caedus is explicitly stated to be a walking dead man requiring the force to simply stand-he still might have won, if the reason he didn’t become a Sith Lord in the first place was not in jeopardy.
@@lordinvictus793 I wrote that Jaina was dominant in the 1st duel between them, on Nickel One, and in the 2nd clash Jaina did ambush Darth Caedus, Caedus fought back, and both of them square-on couldn't identify a chink or advantage over the other, and had to draw-out the fight or move elsewhere. If the gap your advocating between Jaina nad Caedus was present, the dynamics of those contests would have mirrored Farfalla and Raskta Lsu's performance against Darth Bane; not with her pressing Caedus back and severing his arm on Nickel One, or both of them wounding each other and duelling (swordsmanship) evenly on the Anakin Solo.
@@geoffreyedgson7875 Caedus was superior to Jaina in the force. Mind you he managed to fight GM Luke in Inferno and not die immediately. There is a gap. Caedus is either distracted, occupied, or simply badly injured throughout every fight in Invincible. Even in the first duel-Jaina escaped because Caedus was tricked by Luke. Jaina never engages Jacen when he is at the peak of his abilities, he doesn't have Luke screwing with him, or he is actually focused on defeating his sister. The comparison is apples and oranges.
@@lordinvictus793 Absolutely. Yet Anakin Skywalker was superior Force-wise to Kenobi (majority of categories), Darth Sidious was superior to Windu, Dasaan had greater magnitude and could use Force-illusions on Yavin when Katarn defeated him, and Force-wise Darth Maul was at least 2 classes above Knight/Padawan-Kenobi on Naboo. Force-wise there is a significant gap between the developed powers, repertoire and magnitude between Darth Caedus and Jaina. They do share comparable innate aptitude though and developed via different avenues, with Jaina likely ahead combat-skill wise,f a better infiltrator since outside GM Luke's jamming, she successfully ambushed Caedus, twice (making that a consistent feat), and she could achieve a degree of immersion within the Force which Evannova95 compared to "Pseudo-Oneness," which Caedus no longer does. Separate to that, in the first duel on Nickel One between Caedus & Jaina, Caedus deliberately allowed Jaina to get away so he could utilize a Nightsister blood-trail to follow her back to the Jedi. True, a straight-up, 1-on-1, honour-duel scenario never occurred between Darth Caedus and Jaina. Yet at the same time, in battle, with larger risks and consequences involved, the Jedi and Jaina chose to be practical instead of honourable (avoiding the traps the Old Jedi Order walked into on Geonosis or the Chancellor's office) I am not arguing that Jaina is above Caedus. Yet, to have any capacity to threaten him, or fight Caedus directly should any trap fail get half results (as they did) she could still have a foot in the door to defeat him.
He said at the beginning that potential isn’t being regarded on the same level as ACTUAL ability and feats depicted within the characters’ timelines. Anakin never reached his full potential.
Also I just want to say that Jaina in Fate Of The Jedi Apocalypse says “Ben your a fairly sensitive young man, and as strong in The Force as your father.” This was said in the book after Jaina went to Abeloths planet to pick up Ben. This really makes me believe that Ben like his father has The Force Potential of the Chosen One. And it makes sense too if you think about it. After the events of Fate Of The Jedi. Ben was out hunting Sith of the Lost Tribe he had to have been an integral part in restoring order and balance after their emergence. It is also said in Legacy Of The Force that Luke is the only one sure to beat Caedus. And Luke has the Chosen Ones Force Potential. And during Caedus fight with Jaina he practically resigned from the fight so he could save his daughter.
Yeah as an aside though. It’s noted in Invincible itself Jacen is the stronger, and as badly injured as he was(he’s described as requiring the force to just keep standing) he could have won, he just had something more important to do. That point I think is under emphasized whenever Caedus is brought up.
Hi Evan, great video as usual. I’m really happy you mentioned the Fels since I was a little nervous they would be forgotten about despite their ties with the Skywalker, so I really appreciate it. Also as a side note, I’m part of your VIP Patreon subscription and made a request a while back about my question in your last post Q&A video. No rush of course but I’m curious to see the likely hood of said project with my added subscription.
Could you imagine if Leia HAD fully committed to being a Jedi? Not only would her own power have grown but I think Luke would have gotten even stronger too. If they had both thrown themselves into training together, I believe their twin-connection in the Force would have subconsciously pushed them to be equals in all measures like a more-productive and healthy version of sibling rivalry. Twin Jedi Grandmasters, the two most powerful Force-users in history. I want that.
It’s a fun idea, but I’m kind of glad Leia went the other route. It fits her character better and she’s in a way taking on Padme’s legacy as Luke takes on Anakin’s.
We have been watching your career with great interest for many years. Very nice to see you still making extremely detailed content all these years later.
why? Disney was the one who jettisoned the EU out of existence and Kathleen said there were no material to draw on. No thanks. Don't want Disney to touch the EU after they had already destroyed the franchise with the ST
@@lapplandkun9273 actually george lucas and filoni were still at the helm in 2012-13 when that happened in the first place. not all kathleen's fault :)
Alright... what to say, except freaking awesome xD Kol is quite high but his scaling is well backed up (and I like Kol), so I find it hard to argue. Beyond that, its great to see a little detail to Anakin/Vader scaling, and seeing Jaina/Cade get attention in a video is always great for me. And while I know I've said it before I'm still getting used to see my artworks in your vids xD tho most definetly much appreatiated.
The fact that you cited tons of evidence in your video speaks volumes of the amount of research you've conducted to make it. Thank you, good friend, and may the force be with you.
I hate the term legends because the truth is this is the real canon the true love of star wars fans and creators. What disney has done is a perverse distortion of everything we love and hold dear.
Amazing video as always, might rank suited Vader a bit higher, but I loved the respect you gave him here as well as this as a whole. Thank you for your time making this.
Great vid, reminds me a lot of the Star Wars Weakest to Strongest vids SeththeProgrammer did in terms of format. That mighty Skywalker blood is no joke.
I remember a scene in the Vong series, Jacen is getting testy with Leia and she simply pins him with the force and he's powerless against her, if she had been trained she would've crushed them all
Jacen stomped Jaina in their first fight, and is strongly implied that he would have won their second, even though he was badly injured, if he actually tried. He also could have easily killed her if he wasn't trying to warn Tenel Ka about the danger Allana was in.
Obviously Luke deserves the top spot. To my knowledge no other family member defeated (an exact clone of) Palpatine in a straight up duel. He mastered all forms of lightsaber combat AND redeemed Darth Vader.
Sidious was far more powerful than Luke in DE, the only reason Luke beat him was because he had lost all of his bodies that could actually use his full power.
Here’s an interesting matchup, a free-for-all battle between three extremely powerful Sith Masters in galactic history: Darth Sidious (Dark Empire) vs Darth Caedus vs Darth Krayt (Resurrected)
Great vid as always Evan! Really looking forward to ur what if dooku was redeemed. Would u be open to a versus between anakin and obi wan vs Revan and Malak (bro's vs bro's) and also potentially a vid ranking factions like jedi and sith from their weakest to most powerful era in star wars?? Either way I look forward to more vids.
I'm still of the belief that they're in this order (and they're all young, all at the absolute peak of their prime, all fully uninjured (so Anakin Skywalker has all four of his limbs and tissue intact, Luke has his right hand intact, Jacen/Caedus has his left arm intact, etcetera), all at their true absolute full maximum Force potential, all drank every drop from the Font of Power, all bathed in and soaked up every drop from the Pool of Knowledge, all were amplified by the Throne of Balance, all had the entirety of the Force from across the entire multiverse, and all were in the realm of Beyond Shadows in the Mortis pocket universe) (these are Skywalkers from the Official EU Canon, and not Disney's crap): 1) Anakin Skywalker as The Son of the Suns (in addition to him also being The Chosen One) 2) Grand Master Luke Skywalker from the very end of 'Star Wars: Crucible' (so....Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy) 3) Leia Skywalker-Organa-Solo (yes, that's what I'm referring to her as....I'm still wondering why she never accepted her true birth last/maiden name (or just surname) after she forgave her father in 'Star Wars: Tatooine Ghost') from the very end of 'Star Wars: Crucible' (so, uh, again....Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy) 4) Ben Skywalker (Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy) 5) Anakin Solo (had he survived the Yuuzhan Vong War and not died in 'Star Wars: The New Jedi Order: Star by Star' and been training for the last twenty plus years from Star by Star to Crucible....or, like where I'm placing everyone else: Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy) 6) Allana Djo Solo (as The Jedi Queen) (Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy) 7) Jacen Solo (Post-'Star Wars: The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force' where, again, Anakin didn't die, and Jacen continued to train himself further in the Force to try and again achieve that same state of Total Oneness with the Force he experienced at the end of The Unifying Force, or even surpass it....and with all the years going by to when TDNT, LOTF, and FOTJ took place (as, since Anakin would still be alive, Jacen wouldn't become Darth Caedus, and would live past the time that the 'Star Wars: Legacy of the Force' book series was set in), and then live all the way up to the time after Crucible ends....so Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy for him as well) 8) Jaina Solo-Fel (as The Sword of the Jedi) (Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy during what would've been shown in the 'Star Wars: Sword of the Jedi Trilogy' book series that would've been set between these two time periods) 9) Cade Skywalker (after defeating Reborn Darth Krayt) (Post-Star Wars: Legacy - Volume II - Issue #18) 10) Kol Skywalker 11) Marisiah Fel (Post-Star Wars: Legacy - Volume II - Issue #18) 12) Roan Fel 13) Ania Solo (Post-Star Wars: Legacy - Volume II - Issue #18) (no Nat Skywalker...because I didn't like him at all...sorry, but that's just my own honest opinion) #LongLiveTheStarWarsExpandedUniverseTheOneTrueOfficialAndOnlyStarWarsCanon
1.Amazing Video, even though I disagree with your placing with Anakin below Cade. Video ideas: 1.Ranking of combative/force feats 2.How powerful is Darth Revan/Reborn 3.Nomi Sunrider vs Darth Zannah (Obvious conclusion)
I absolutely love your ending and how the SW multiverse would get destroyed if a Mortis-amped, full potential 3-way battle happened between those three. I would SO love to see it!
I think you slightly underestimated Ben with regards to his fight vs Khai. 9:28 you mention that Khai wasn’t in any serious threat of dying but very shortly during that same sequence Khai was stated to be worrying he might not be making it out of the battle alive which makes me feel he was in some pretty serious danger. Overall it doesn’t change any ranking but I’ll fight to bolster my boy Ben! Also personally I’d put suited Vader in a ranking between Cade and Caedus/Jaina. He’s definitely not stronger than Caedus or Jaina but I feel like he’s probably stronger than Cade in raw power. Or maybe ROS Anakin needs to go down into another in-between tier idk. Still a great video to see and very much enjoyed it! Although I think Cade probably beats Vader because of his dark transfer as well as shatterpoint and lightning, I’d still love to see you do a versus on the two!
Caedus doing so well against Jaina in their last fight was crazy. Dude had 1 arm, got stabbed in the gut before the fight began, and was constantly distracted by the imminent threat to Tenel Ka and Allana. He was so focused on saving tenel ka and allana that he even tried to leave without finishing the duel multiple times. Jaina was one of the most dangerous combatants alive and knew her brother like the back of her hand. Caedus still significantly injured her and Jaina even admitted he could’ve made her die alongside him if he hadn’t focused on warning Tenel Ka through the force.
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 there aren’t too many Sith Lords/ Emperors beyond Darth Sidious other then Caedus n Krayt n I don’t c Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kunn, or Darth Vitiate being exponentially better then Palpatine or Bane much less Darth Plagues
A question on "Oneness with The Force": Did Obi-Wan Kenobi achieve it, much like Jacen, or Anakin Solo, or Grandmaster Luke? I ask due to how The ROTS Novelization describes him "Letting The Force flow through him, rather than him tapping into The Force for his power". With a description like that, could Kenobi have gone all glowy-god-mode like Jacen Solo versus Omini; perhaps against General Grevious, or Darth Vader (Mustafar Duel)?
Great vid Evan. While I agree with the ranking for the most part, I did have some questions and an inconsistency I was hoping you could address. 1. While I do agree, Darth Vader is more powerful than Clone Wars/Revenge of the Sith Anakin Skywalker, it has been noted in various works (Disney Canon and EU material) that Vader himself considers Anakin to be a separate person from himself entirely. Is there a reason you didn’t consider them two separate characters and decided to group them together when ranking them? 2. Referring back to your Anakin Skywalker vs Jaina Solo match, you had Anakin and Jaina on par with each other for most of it with Jaina being declared the victor due to some advantages she had over Anakin. So, wouldn’t that warrant putting Anakin on the same tier as Jaina and by extension Vader as well? 3. Bit of an off topic question, but would you consider remaking your previous versus matches in the style you are now? It might be an opportunity to reexamine your previous matches if you’re opinions have changed on any of them.
Thank you! To answer your questions: 1. It's mainly based on the structure of the list. The idea was that since I was examining the Skywalkers as a whole, I would be taking in the entirety of their characterization and power progression, including any-and-all transformations. I agree that Anakin and Vader are different people psychologically (marginally), but since I wanted to focus on the progression of his strength, it made more sense to me to group his different personas under one banner. 2. Similarly to the Council scale, I view the categories from C Tier onwards in this video to only be divisible by EXTREMELY small margins. It is a seperation of HOW they use their powers rather than simply what they have. I think of it like how you can give out Bronze, Silver, and Gold medals to three Olympic sprinters who are only separated in their times by 0.5 seconds. Yes, they are ranked on different pedestals, but their actual levels of physical ability compared to each other are very small in the grand scheme. 3. For sure! There are past matches like Lord Hoth VS Darth Bane and others that I've definitely had my eye on redoing.
26:17, I’d advise you not to put words in the mouths of the writers; it’s people like you that make them not want to keep answering, or at least give very vague answers to questions. Ron did not say what you said he said. He answered yes firstly to the question confirming that Maul was brought back to kill and usurp Vader’s place as Sids’ apprentice, and then next answered yes to the question of if Maul was prepared and/or powered up to fight Vader. The author never specified that Maul was empowered. Nothing in the text that I can recall points to this. However, it IS far more likely that Maul was prepared for the fight. So please, you’ve for sure improved over the years, but you can afford to do better. Be more careful with your interpretations of things.
First, just wanted to say, epic list, totally see why you started with the first known Skywalker and totally didn't realize she was Force-sensitive. Great catch! Issues I have with Anakin's and Ben's placing are as follows. Anakin routinely pulled out abilities that were obscure even in the days of the old Order such as using Morichro to slow the bodily function of an eel or his ability to use the Force to connect with machines. Let's not forget Vongsense which was totally crazy to me when I first read the NJO back when it was being published. Ben might belong in this category as for me the impressive feats he achieved was more about how he could easily kill several Sith Lords at the same time in lightsaber combat. He did have a poor showing against the Mother though. So I'm sort of iffy if I'd put him in that category or not.
. Prime NJO Mara Jade sits alongside with Anakin and Cade, and Vader to be put above Jaina and below Jacen/Caedus. 37:04 and 37:27, Evan puts prime Caedus above prime sidious. damn it, now we need a prime Sidious (dark empire) vs Caedus vs Prime Krayt. the ultimate sith lord match up.
Wow. This list was WAY more thorough than I was expecting. And I'm all for it. If you would, I have a few matchups for the future. 1. Darth Vitiate vs Darth Sidious (rematch) 2. Darth Vader (no holding back) vs Dark Empire Luke Skywalker 3. Darth Krayt vs Darth Vader 4. Grand master Luke Skywalker vs Darth Sidious and Darth Vader a 2v1
Sidious, pretty easily(assuming this is DE Sidious) Luke shitstomps Suit Vader, and barely beats Mustafar Vader Krayt stomps Suit Vader, and gets beaten without too much difficulty by Mustafar Vader Luke wins if it's Suit Vader, it's a toss up if it's Mustafar Vader
@@Christianlarsen-n2lhat puts darth sidious above vitiate As it’s hard to even grasp the 2 in power With many saying they are semi relative Sidious maybe more skilled with a lightsaber and more knowledgeable given the rule of 2 Vitiate is more skilled with the force and has 1000 + years of experience And power wise there can be a case made that they are equal And in a fight it unlikely comes down to who can outsmart or skill the other I think is a pure lightsaber fight sidious wins in a pure force fight I give it to vitiate for having more display Basically it’s hard to toss up who is more powerful But in terms of a fight I can see it going to siduous As ultimately you can beat someone more powerful than you given you are more skilled and knowledgeable then they are with enough power to keep you in the game Basically as the saying goes if equal in power a win comes down to other factors
Really cool ranking list Evan. Excited to finally watch it. Anakin is the strongest Skywalker when sandlusted. You underestimate his power! Also, surprised you ranked Cade above Vader. Cade vs Anakin or Vader would be a really interesting matchup. I dont think Cades force power > Vader and he is def less skilled and experienced. Though Cades pimp force, hax, lightning, and insight into Vader means he would give Vader a really bad time. Great discussion at the end comparing Luke's and Leia's potential to Anakin. As well as the arguments of the Skywalker family power dilution over the generations. I posted these matchups in Jensaarai1's latest video so might as well do so here. Cade Skywalker vs Darth Cadeus: Anti Hero Skywalker vs Anti Villain Skywalker. My money is on Cadeus but I like it thematically. Voong Infested Krayt vs Lumiya: (Post ROTJ Darth Vader Clones) Jorus C'Baoth vs Master Faye: (can't be done sadly but mad Wizard vs High Elf looks cool) Count Dooku vs Master Faye: (Saruman vs Galadriel) The Ronin (SW Visions) vs Darth Wredd (I really like some episodes of Visions and it got me thinking of a good matchup) General Grevious vs Am (Twin Sister from SW Visions): Not sure if 1 episode is enough to build a good profile for Am but I enjoyed Kill La Kill. Lord Beida/Dark Vader + Dark Helmet vs Darth Vader (joke matchup): Darth Vader parodies vs the Original Vader.
Nawww I missed the premiere, but hey my power is gone for the next 3 hours so this is some welcome entertainment. That being said when is ur content not a great time XD. Keep up your amazing work, you continue to be one of is not my favourite Star wars content creator, official or fan made
I actually believe Shmi to be force sensitive but unware like Leia who didn't show her force sensitivity by ability until adulthood and training. I see parallels between Shmi and Mary mother of Christ who was said to be the most blessed among women and implied purity as in terms of sin. I think Shmi was seen by the Force the same way God saw Mary. So idk i think the Force would need a force sensitive woman to carry the Chosen one of the Force.
Any chance you could use Ben in a Versus Battle? Also do you think Vestara should have remained a Jedi, I personally think so. Denning worst mistake in my opinion. Also do you think Luke was a Guardian, Consular, or Sentinel? Also thank you for this video! 🙏🏼
Im with you on that but i dont really like most of dennings work. Star by star is okay but the rest of his books dissapoint me compared to everyone else around him wether its allston travis or golden
@@jacobkarlin2946 I mostly agree, with the caveat that Denning can write kickass lightsaber duels. Caedus vs Luke in Inferno is probably my favorite duel in the whole franchise.
Whaaaaaattttt.....? Vestara TRIED to be a Jedi for five minutes. And that all happened in Christie Golden's book. I don't agree with blaming him for everything they don't like in the Legacy Era.
Now that’s an interesting question. I think he would have never become quite as cold and calculating as his canon version became after Mustafar, and would channel the dark side explicitly through rage. His form would still be Djem So and he might add something of Ataru and Juyo to the mix instead of balancing his style, going for a fury-based offensive style like a Sith Marauder. Of course, his Force Power would have reached terrifying heights and he likely would have been able to perform techniques such as lightning with no trouble at all (edit: while I don’t think his powers would have been varied, they would be potent as hell) Other than that, I don’t see suitless Vader focusing on anything too ethereal or esoteric like Sith sorcery or alchemy.
Would have literally become god, Lucas says he was powerful enough on Mustafar to save Padme, and maybe a month away from actually being able to do it, he also says doing that is impossible and unnatural, the issue with the dark side is it’s corruption of the living force, so eventually everything dies an it’s suicide basically, with all the Jedi dead the force is already dying which is what’s happening in the OT why the emperor is so crippled and why nobody can fight, because the living force is the power source for that. If Anakin didn’t get bashed up and lose all his power then he could have kept life going anyway with him as the source, instead of the force, literal god and this was only a month away, contrary to Evans conclusion in this video Anakin Skywalker should definitely be number one on this list
I kinda hate all the stuff that's related to the Skywalker's after Luke and leia feels like they are just constantly trying to make the fans be like woah another Skywalker how crazy
Not only that but they have to be even more powerful than the last. Luke and Leia should be the only ones who could have become more powerful than their father (the literal Chosen One) only because he never reached his full potential. Any Skywalker born after the twins should have a substantially watered down potential.
This is a great tier list. Also, I think I might be spoiled on the verdict of Mara Jade Skywalker vs Cade Skywalker but oh well, I get to watching that video eventually. Very in depth and very enjoyable.
@Wes Bradley-Taubner Agreed. Jaina vs Vader would be a close fight that really could go either way. Though if I had to bet money on one of them, id bet on Jaina
Regarding Vader stomping Cade in that vision sequence, I’m a little confused as to why you think it doesn’t have much merit to it as far as a showcase of their skill levels go when you used Cade dueling a vision of Luke from that same run as evidence that suggests he would be able to.contend with and/or possibly outduel Mara Jade in their versus video. Did your opinion on that section of the video shift somewhat when researching this one? Thanks, and much love for all the work you’ve been doing these past ten years Dude.
19:23 Kol Skywalker's Gandalf moment. I'm a servant of The Living Force (I'm a servant of The Secret Fire), wielder of these lighsabers in my hands (Wielder of The Flame of Arnor), none of you will pass (YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!!)!!!!
I know this was a long time ago, but im only getting around to watching this; and i wanted to say thank you for pointing out that Obi-Wan was nerfed on Mustafar as well! I see so many say that anakin was nerfed and Obi-Wan wasnt, therefore saying it wasnt a valid feat for Kenobi. However, we see Obi-Wan outright deny his duty to kill Anakin for a long time, and in the novel, we even see Obi-Wan be on the backfoot, then finally getting back into the flow of battle that he had against Grievous, meaning Obi-Wan was MASSIVELY hindered for most of the duel. Just as in Luke vs Vader in ROTJ, people discredit Luke by saying Vader was hindered, but i rarely see people point out just how hindered Luke was as well. As hindered as Vader was, he at least would continue fighting and and according to the novel, aiming to kill, whereas Luke couldnt even develop the will to fight until his anger was pushed over the edge; and once that happened, he dismantled Vader within less than a minute. Imo, in ROTJ, both Vader and Luke are massively underestimated, same as Obi-Wan in ROTS.
Full Potential Caedus S plus tier. Caedus had only begun his sith career. In a couple of years he would have surpassed Luke and become the most powerful being in the galaxy barring Abeloth.
I am going to attempt to show that the Skywalkers' power levels are natural and NOT a product of Anakin's unique situation. 1) There are people who are strong in the Force with no ability to become Jedi or Sith. Two of these are Padmé Amidala and Han Solo. I believe that it might even be possible that such people subtly use the Force in forms of extraordinary persuasion or luck. These people, though lacking in trainable abilities, when married to either one another or to a Jedi, produce powerful Force Users. That being said, I believe the line of the Skywalkers from Shmi down always possessed the power to become the most powerful Jedi. 2) Shmi is NOT weak in the Force. While I agree with her ranking in the video, I believe that she shows multiple latent powers that would have been hers to command with knowledge and training. My first example of her Force potential is her involuntary parthenogenesis. The Force reacted harshly to the machinations of Darth Plagueis to create the ultimate Force sensitive being and created Anakin, but this did not occur in a vacuum. There was only one such pregnancy, and she was it. I do not believe that she was just a truly random pick, but the Force oriented itself to an individual who was already a strong, if untrained presence. Second, she not only can sense Anakin nearby in ways beyond the normal, but she knows that Anakin is not destined to a life of slavery but has a peculiar destiny, perhaps manifesting a latent inclanation with shatterpoint. She is also able to assure Anakin that she will be just fine if he leaves, and as we see her prediction to be accurate, she might be gifted with the ability to foresee what may be. We know that she is concerned for Anakin when he races, and her mind is bent toward him during that time, and the novelization of Phantom Menace describes Anakin as falling into an abnormal headspace while flying, and he always comes home mostly intact no matter the problems. I believe that this may display an embryonic talent with battle meditation. Lastly, when dying and under torture, she sends out an appeal to Anakin that drives him nearly crazy attempting to resolve it. Because all of this talent is raw and untrained, she deserves to be at the bottom of the list, but for untrained talent, one should neither underestimate the feats that we see even in latent form. 3) Yoda sense that Padmé is also strong in the Force, and she is noted to have a persuasive personality, and we see it time after time as she induces even Jedi to follow her, even when it goes both against their better judgment and even prior intentions. As her death approaches, she lays the plans for how Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and other Senators will work against the Emperor while indicating that she will not be alive much longer, which also shows an ability to see the future. 4) Han is described as being strong in the Force, and though he evidenced fewer feats of precise latent Force, his incredible runs of luck are commented on, as is his flouting of nearly impossible odds, and his "bad feelings" are NEVER wrong. So, we have Shmi who appears to have latent talents that might have allowed her under other circumstances to be a powerful Jedi, whose far more powerful son marries a woman strong in the Force without any ability to use it. Their daughter marries a man like her mother and the son marries a former Dark Side adept who is arguably for decades the second strongest Master in the new Jedi Order, and possibly would have been in the uppermost ranks of the old Order. The great-grandchildren of Shmi do equally as well, with Anakin pairing with Tahiri, though nothing comes of the pairing, Jacen becoming the consort for the Dathomiri Witch-Jedi Queen of the Hapes Cluster, Jaina becoming the wife of the ruler of the Imperial Remnant, and Ben romancing a powerful Sith apprentice. While the story ends before we reach the ending of these tales, we should not be surprised that the future Skywalker heirs maintained this pattern generation after generation, building a long bloodline of mighty Force wielders. If you look at the feats of each individual on the list, there is not one that could not have sat on a Jedi Counsel or been a frighteningly powerful Sith Lord in any era of Star Wars.
believe it or not, i actually think Padme may potentially be force sensitive, albeit in the same manner that Revan was able to touch the force through his connection with Bastila
0:38 Wrong. It started in 1976, when the novelization for (What we now call) A New Hope came out 6 months before The Movie itself did in May, 1977. Just as "In a hole in the ground, there lived a Hobbit" in "The Hobbit" was the first line of Tolkien's works; "Another galaxy, another time" is the first line of all Star Wars media, NOT "A Long Time Ago, In A Galaxy Far, Far Away". While most people in that time would've seen the movie, before reading its then 6 month old novelization, what is popularly considered the start of Star Wars; that isn't the same as the technical start of Star Wars in its first piece of media outside of George Lucas' mind/imagination, as well as the earliest scripts for the movie (If they somehow came out before even the novelization did). I just started watching the video, btw. Hope it's really good. Just wanted to make a little clarification right-off-the-bat (38 seconds into it, actually).
Epic. Video. Fax. But I think Mara is higher than Nat level via Here being able to fight against Caedus with prep time. I would at least put Mara in Kol Skywalker level. But I don’t think it’s all that crazy that Cade would be relative to Vader in power. Cade is actually op. But I’ve always said that Vader is above Anakin. Even Yoda. Vader is probably on that tier. But you said that shmi was slightly Force sensitive but everyone in Star Wars are force sensitiv. But i understand. Great video. Really enjoyed it. But I think Anakin Solo is above Ben via scaling to pre prime Jacen.
Vader is definitely not above Yoda. Vader is capped at 80% of the Emperor - which could not near-stalemate the Emperor in a Force duel. Vader is above Anakin in some ways (telekinesis, telepathy, energy deflection), and Anakin is above Vader in some ways (lightsaber combat, Force augmentation, Force visions). It all depends on how the combat scenario plays out between then.
@@DarthKraytsolosCanon500 George Lucas set the Emperor as a baseline in interviews. That Yoda could match him, but only Skywalkers could surpass him. In Lucas’ mind, the Emperor did not grow noticeably in power between ROTS and ROTJ. The Emperor has all the powers in ROTS that he has in ROTJ. What basis do you have to say he “obviously” grew.
@@theopportuneson699 Where did Lucas say this. And there’s many statements. And if we take that logic of Vader being 20 % les then Sidious. That would mean if Sidious grew by 20 % Vader and Yoda would be equal but if he grew by 30% Vader would be 10 % stronger than Yoda etc. and its not that crazy. I actually think Yoda is extremely overrated to the point where people get angry when he loses. And The Kar vastor scaling. Vastor being comparable to Yoda and Vader one year after ROTS being started stronger than him. Have you even watch STP video on Jedi and Sith ranked by power. And I can’t se the problem with Vader being stronger than Yoda. I just think that Yoda is extremely overrated and Most of the people defending him are mostly biased.
Hearing you say Ben Solo and Rey Skywalker without cringing is impressive.
Ray is NOT a Skywalker. She did NOT earn that title whatsoever. Blame Disney.
@@GabrielMicheal77710 What is even more insane is, why didn't she take the solo name??? She cared for all 3, but alas it still sad how the literally took them all out and now an palpatine takes everything
Your neck must be sore after giving an entire trilogy free rent in your head
@@thatiowan3581 You think!?
Ben Skywalker is one of my fave Legends characters, his sass and wit aside, his potential was what I found extremely interesting about him. We see glimpses of his true potential at certain points in Fate of the Jedi, specifically I believe during Apocalypse. Like being able to unleash a concentrated telekinetic blast of the Force strong enough to destroy a Capital ship, in a "holy hand grenade" on Abeloth. Or being able to achieve a form of Oneness with the Force, a state of immense power at any rate, that unlike Jacen (following his battle with Onimi) was not stated to be unachievable again. When you have literal Cthulhu from the time of Force Gods claiming Ben has the potential to become the next "Daughter", then that is high praise indeed.
Exar kun force blast a huge mountain ⛰️ way before he became a sith lord
I couldn’t agree more with you brother.
Mhmm@@alsimmonshellspawn6021
Ben Skywalker was born with the Skywalker Potential along with the potential of his mother who was probably anywhere from Kenobi to Ashoka level of power
No surprise that Luke Skywalker was at the S rank on the list. This was one of your best non-VS videos I’ve seen. Since you had done a video like this, can you do a ranking video of apprentices trained by Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader? After all, we know that the Chosen One had trained a lot of Force Users in his life.
I likely think Lumiya or Mara Jade is in the top, with Ahsoka likely being the lower end of the spectrum but not the bottom, as that would be the Disney Fodder Inquisitors.
@@lapplandkun9273 It would be Starkiller and Lumiya in S imo for Lumiya’s performances against GM Luke and SK’s against Sidious and Vader.
@@lapplandkun9273ahsoka is pretty dog water generally, she'd be barely above the other filoni apprentices
Reporting for spoilers
@@Jiub_SNahsoka beat maul (yes I know barely) but still. She’s no slouch
Leia had some very impressive feats in the last Legends Novel Crucible, where she was able to keep up with a Post Abeloth fight Luke. Granted, Luke wasn't at his best at the time, but together with her brother, Leia had some straight up "Anakin on Mortis" level feats (well, Crucible is weird, they might have actually BEEN on Mortis).
dammit thats one of the few books in the series i missed out on :( now i gotta read it
It was decent but nothing in Crucible compares to Mortakin dominating the two representations of Light and Darkness whose power was suggested by the Father to tear apart the fabric of the Universe. Not even close to that. Mortakin is way beyond anything from either Leia or Luke, especially since Abeloth scales below the Father on account of him being the one to personally intervene and imprison her, and Luke struggled enormously against her on multiple occasions.
It wasn't Mortis.
@@SuperSirius11 dude eu Leia was more powerful than anakin ever was, the mortis feat is king of overrated because the planet they were was a strong force nexus anakin couldn't never archive that level of power by himself ever again because he lacks of acknowledge of the force why luke and Leia open up more to the will of the force.
Please tell me about this on discord cause I need to know what feats you’re referring to
Jaina actually retreated after the first duel, and as you note Jacen was focused on saving his daughter(Jaina outright admits he could end her with one final blast) he just chose not too.
True, yet some components in both duels also indicate how close and relative the adult twins are. With Battle-meditation, it can only enhance an individual to the peak of their capabilities, and minorly weaken the opposition. In the duel on Tython, Jedi masters Raskta Lsu and Valentyne Farfalla were enhanced, ye repeatedly out-fought, over-powered and dominated by Darth Bane; orbalisks aside the sheer magnitude and skill Bane carried outweighed the enhanced Jedi. And Darth Zannah managed to hold her ground against Sarro Xaj and stage manage him and Johun Othone under the detrimental side of Battlemeditation.
Jaina Fel against Darth Caedus, she was much more dominant in the duel with him, and without battle-meditation she still held her own; to the point neither her nor Caedus could identify Shatterpoints in the other. Caedus did concede the fight to warn Tenel Ka and save their daughter, after Jaina managed to ambush him and still they dueleld evenly (given Caedus' own sense talents and surviving Mara jade's ambushes less wounded, that is impressive on Jaina's part).
She was dominant in the second duel because Caedus literally did not want to fight her. He would have preferred she had just walked away. Caedus had also sustained severe injuries including a severed arm and as you note his attention was divided.
Jaina constantly needed Luke to either mess with Jacen’s visions, outright projected force illusions or other amplifications. And even then when Caedus is explicitly stated to be a walking dead man requiring the force to simply stand-he still might have won, if the reason he didn’t become a Sith Lord in the first place was not in jeopardy.
@@lordinvictus793 I wrote that Jaina was dominant in the 1st duel between them, on Nickel One, and in the 2nd clash Jaina did ambush Darth Caedus, Caedus fought back, and both of them square-on couldn't identify a chink or advantage over the other, and had to draw-out the fight or move elsewhere.
If the gap your advocating between Jaina nad Caedus was present, the dynamics of those contests would have mirrored Farfalla and Raskta Lsu's performance against Darth Bane; not with her pressing Caedus back and severing his arm on Nickel One, or both of them wounding each other and duelling (swordsmanship) evenly on the Anakin Solo.
@@geoffreyedgson7875 Caedus was superior to Jaina in the force. Mind you he managed to fight GM Luke in Inferno and not die immediately. There is a gap. Caedus is either distracted, occupied, or simply badly injured throughout every fight in Invincible. Even in the first duel-Jaina escaped because Caedus was tricked by Luke. Jaina never engages Jacen when he is at the peak of his abilities, he doesn't have Luke screwing with him, or he is actually focused on defeating his sister.
The comparison is apples and oranges.
@@lordinvictus793 Absolutely. Yet Anakin Skywalker was superior Force-wise to Kenobi (majority of categories), Darth Sidious was superior to Windu, Dasaan had greater magnitude and could use Force-illusions on Yavin when Katarn defeated him, and Force-wise Darth Maul was at least 2 classes above Knight/Padawan-Kenobi on Naboo.
Force-wise there is a significant gap between the developed powers, repertoire and magnitude between Darth Caedus and Jaina. They do share comparable innate aptitude though and developed via different avenues, with Jaina likely ahead combat-skill wise,f a better infiltrator since outside GM Luke's jamming, she successfully ambushed Caedus, twice (making that a consistent feat), and she could achieve a degree of immersion within the Force which Evannova95 compared to "Pseudo-Oneness," which Caedus no longer does.
Separate to that, in the first duel on Nickel One between Caedus & Jaina, Caedus deliberately allowed Jaina to get away so he could utilize a Nightsister blood-trail to follow her back to the Jedi.
True, a straight-up, 1-on-1, honour-duel scenario never occurred between Darth Caedus and Jaina. Yet at the same time, in battle, with larger risks and consequences involved, the Jedi and Jaina chose to be practical instead of honourable (avoiding the traps the Old Jedi Order walked into on Geonosis or the Chancellor's office)
I am not arguing that Jaina is above Caedus. Yet, to have any capacity to threaten him, or fight Caedus directly should any trap fail get half results (as they did) she could still have a foot in the door to defeat him.
I knew Luke would be at the top of this list, but to me, his father would also be in this tier at his full potential
Legends luke is just full potential anakin. They both have the same potential both in canon and legends novels
@@narutard7737 i would say luke has 99.99% of anikins potential. anikin is literally the offspring of the force. and luke is that and half human.
He said at the beginning that potential isn’t being regarded on the same level as ACTUAL ability and feats depicted within the characters’ timelines. Anakin never reached his full potential.
@@Johnadams20760nope Lucas confirm Lukes potential is 100% equal to Anakin's not less equal
In the words of Count Dooku: ¨I´ve been looking forward to this.¨
How powerful was Luke? He was the only man in history to say “I can fix her.” And be right. Thats how powerful.
I've been watching a lot of your old versus videos those were always very engaging it's great to know that you're still making videos.
Also I just want to say that Jaina in Fate Of The Jedi Apocalypse says “Ben your a fairly sensitive young man, and as strong in The Force as your father.” This was said in the book after Jaina went to Abeloths planet to pick up Ben. This really makes me believe that Ben like his father has The Force Potential of the Chosen One. And it makes sense too if you think about it. After the events of Fate Of The Jedi. Ben was out hunting Sith of the Lost Tribe he had to have been an integral part in restoring order and balance after their emergence.
It is also said in Legacy Of The Force that Luke is the only one sure to beat Caedus. And Luke has the Chosen Ones Force Potential. And during Caedus fight with Jaina he practically resigned from the fight so he could save his daughter.
Caedus’ throwing the fight is something Evan has never seemed to really acknowledge.
@@lordinvictus793 He mentioned it in either his Mace Windu vs Darth Caedus or his Jaina Solo Fel vs Anakin Skywalker.
Yeah as an aside though. It’s noted in Invincible itself Jacen is the stronger, and as badly injured as he was(he’s described as requiring the force to just keep standing) he could have won, he just had something more important to do.
That point I think is under emphasized whenever Caedus is brought up.
@@lordinvictus793 Even so, Caedus still said that eventually he could win in time.
@@muhamedquraishi Yeah.
The luke vader part has the same problem as wolverine's healing factor. How strong it is depends entirely on whose writing the story
which is why the best fiction stories are the ones written by the same author continuesly
Hi Evan, great video as usual. I’m really happy you mentioned the Fels since I was a little nervous they would be forgotten about despite their ties with the Skywalker, so I really appreciate it. Also as a side note, I’m part of your VIP Patreon subscription and made a request a while back about my question in your last post Q&A video. No rush of course but I’m curious to see the likely hood of said project with my added subscription.
Shmi’s inclusion was the breaking point between me staying a subscriber, thank you for reaffirming my decision.
So you still are a subscriber?
😂
Lol
Lol bro what’s wrong with you
@@lordinvictus793 Apparently not I would guess. He's so offended Schmi is included for some reason.
Could you imagine if Leia HAD fully committed to being a Jedi? Not only would her own power have grown but I think Luke would have gotten even stronger too. If they had both thrown themselves into training together, I believe their twin-connection in the Force would have subconsciously pushed them to be equals in all measures like a more-productive and healthy version of sibling rivalry.
Twin Jedi Grandmasters, the two most powerful Force-users in history. I want that.
It’s a fun idea, but I’m kind of glad Leia went the other route. It fits her character better and she’s in a way taking on Padme’s legacy as Luke takes on Anakin’s.
Don’t FORGET the petition to have Christie Golden writing the Sword Of The Jedi Series!!!
I enjoyed reading her Inferno Squad novel, so she's a good writer.
Excellent video. No complaints honestly. You may have been somewhat generous in places but I honestly enjoy entertaining similar positions myself.
We have been watching your career with great interest for many years. Very nice to see you still making extremely detailed content all these years later.
You really need to be hired by disney to be a lore educator to these people. Your depth and knowledge of Lucas' world is astounding to me.
why? Disney was the one who jettisoned the EU out of existence and Kathleen said there were no material to draw on. No thanks. Don't want Disney to touch the EU after they had already destroyed the franchise with the ST
They have Pablo and Leland
@@АлексейМомот-щ7о useless
@@lapplandkun9273 actually george lucas and filoni were still at the helm in 2012-13 when that happened in the first place. not all kathleen's fault :)
Disney would rather make new stuff up and fail the fans
Phenomenal work on the production of this video! 👏
Absolutely loved this video! I think its one of your best.
Alright... what to say, except freaking awesome xD Kol is quite high but his scaling is well backed up (and I like Kol), so I find it hard to argue. Beyond that, its great to see a little detail to Anakin/Vader scaling, and seeing Jaina/Cade get attention in a video is always great for me.
And while I know I've said it before I'm still getting used to see my artworks in your vids xD tho most definetly much appreatiated.
The fact that you cited tons of evidence in your video speaks volumes of the amount of research you've conducted to make it. Thank you, good friend, and may the force be with you.
I hate the term legends because the truth is this is the real canon the true love of star wars fans and creators. What disney has done is a perverse distortion of everything we love and hold dear.
Amazing video as always, might rank suited Vader a bit higher, but I loved the respect you gave him here as well as this as a whole. Thank you for your time making this.
Personally I'd put Vader on roughly the same tier as Jaina and Jacen, though slightly lower than them
@@kaitosevski3881 Yeah, I agree that they’re quite close.
Suited Vader sucks major ass. According to George Lucas he's at about Qui Gon and Maul's level during episode 1.
Great vid, reminds me a lot of the Star Wars Weakest to Strongest vids SeththeProgrammer did in terms of format. That mighty Skywalker blood is no joke.
There was no need to invalidate my boy Luuke like that.
I remember a scene in the Vong series, Jacen is getting testy with Leia and she simply pins him with the force and he's powerless against her, if she had been trained she would've crushed them all
Minus Luke
So nice to see this Evan. Thank You my friend.
Jacen stomped Jaina in their first fight, and is strongly implied that he would have won their second, even though he was badly injured, if he actually tried. He also could have easily killed her if he wasn't trying to warn Tenel Ka about the danger Allana was in.
I'm glad you remembered that. She makes a note that her final attack would leave her open and that she had nothing left. He fully wore her down
Obviously Luke deserves the top spot. To my knowledge no other family member defeated (an exact clone of) Palpatine in a straight up duel. He mastered all forms of lightsaber combat AND redeemed Darth Vader.
Sidious was far more powerful than Luke in DE, the only reason Luke beat him was because he had lost all of his bodies that could actually use his full power.
Let this shit be known anakin could shit on luke at any given time
Here’s an interesting matchup, a free-for-all battle between three extremely powerful Sith Masters in galactic history:
Darth Sidious (Dark Empire) vs Darth Caedus vs Darth Krayt (Resurrected)
DE Palpatine wins if he can throw force storms, if not it’s well it’s a genuine toss up.
@@lordinvictus793 those storms have never been combat applicable.
Caedus-Sidious is toss up, Krayt is out instantly.
Great vid as always Evan! Really looking forward to ur what if dooku was redeemed. Would u be open to a versus between anakin and obi wan vs Revan and Malak (bro's vs bro's) and also potentially a vid ranking factions like jedi and sith from their weakest to most powerful era in star wars?? Either way I look forward to more vids.
I'm still of the belief that they're in this order (and they're all young, all at the absolute peak of their prime, all fully uninjured (so Anakin Skywalker has all four of his limbs and tissue intact, Luke has his right hand intact, Jacen/Caedus has his left arm intact, etcetera), all at their true absolute full maximum Force potential, all drank every drop from the Font of Power, all bathed in and soaked up every drop from the Pool of Knowledge, all were amplified by the Throne of Balance, all had the entirety of the Force from across the entire multiverse, and all were in the realm of Beyond Shadows in the Mortis pocket universe) (these are Skywalkers from the Official EU Canon, and not Disney's crap):
1) Anakin Skywalker as The Son of the Suns (in addition to him also being The Chosen One)
2) Grand Master Luke Skywalker from the very end of 'Star Wars: Crucible' (so....Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy)
3) Leia Skywalker-Organa-Solo (yes, that's what I'm referring to her as....I'm still wondering why she never accepted her true birth last/maiden name (or just surname) after she forgave her father in 'Star Wars: Tatooine Ghost') from the very end of 'Star Wars: Crucible' (so, uh, again....Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy)
4) Ben Skywalker (Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy)
5) Anakin Solo (had he survived the Yuuzhan Vong War and not died in 'Star Wars: The New Jedi Order: Star by Star' and been training for the last twenty plus years from Star by Star to Crucible....or, like where I'm placing everyone else: Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy)
6) Allana Djo Solo (as The Jedi Queen) (Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy)
7) Jacen Solo (Post-'Star Wars: The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force' where, again, Anakin didn't die, and Jacen continued to train himself further in the Force to try and again achieve that same state of Total Oneness with the Force he experienced at the end of The Unifying Force, or even surpass it....and with all the years going by to when TDNT, LOTF, and FOTJ took place (as, since Anakin would still be alive, Jacen wouldn't become Darth Caedus, and would live past the time that the 'Star Wars: Legacy of the Force' book series was set in), and then live all the way up to the time after Crucible ends....so Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy for him as well)
8) Jaina Solo-Fel (as The Sword of the Jedi) (Post-Crucible and Pre-Legacy during what would've been shown in the 'Star Wars: Sword of the Jedi Trilogy' book series that would've been set between these two time periods)
9) Cade Skywalker (after defeating Reborn Darth Krayt) (Post-Star Wars: Legacy - Volume II - Issue #18)
10) Kol Skywalker
11) Marisiah Fel (Post-Star Wars: Legacy - Volume II - Issue #18)
12) Roan Fel
13) Ania Solo (Post-Star Wars: Legacy - Volume II - Issue #18)
(no Nat Skywalker...because I didn't like him at all...sorry, but that's just my own honest opinion)
#LongLiveTheStarWarsExpandedUniverseTheOneTrueOfficialAndOnlyStarWarsCanon
1.Amazing Video, even though I disagree with your placing with Anakin below Cade.
Video ideas:
1.Ranking of combative/force feats
2.How powerful is Darth Revan/Reborn
3.Nomi Sunrider vs Darth Zannah (Obvious conclusion)
How is Nomi vs Zannah Obvious? There's no way to compare the two
I absolutely love your ending and how the SW multiverse would get destroyed if a Mortis-amped, full potential 3-way battle happened between those three. I would SO love to see it!
I think you slightly underestimated Ben with regards to his fight vs Khai. 9:28 you mention that Khai wasn’t in any serious threat of dying but very shortly during that same sequence Khai was stated to be worrying he might not be making it out of the battle alive which makes me feel he was in some pretty serious danger. Overall it doesn’t change any ranking but I’ll fight to bolster my boy Ben!
Also personally I’d put suited Vader in a ranking between Cade and Caedus/Jaina. He’s definitely not stronger than Caedus or Jaina but I feel like he’s probably stronger than Cade in raw power. Or maybe ROS Anakin needs to go down into another in-between tier idk.
Still a great video to see and very much enjoyed it! Although I think Cade probably beats Vader because of his dark transfer as well as shatterpoint and lightning, I’d still love to see you do a versus on the two!
Agreed on all accounts bro.
Caedus doing so well against Jaina in their last fight was crazy. Dude had 1 arm, got stabbed in the gut before the fight began, and was constantly distracted by the imminent threat to Tenel Ka and Allana. He was so focused on saving tenel ka and allana that he even tried to leave without finishing the duel multiple times. Jaina was one of the most dangerous combatants alive and knew her brother like the back of her hand. Caedus still significantly injured her and Jaina even admitted he could’ve made her die alongside him if he hadn’t focused on warning Tenel Ka through the force.
Can’t argue with any of your logic here. Very sound. Great video!
I haven’t seen this name in years on RUclips, glad something of yours popped into my recommended
This video was neither early or late.
It was uploaded precisely when it was meant to.
*Laughs in Gandalf while epic sax guy plays*
We seriously need a “from weakest to greatest/ most powerful Sith Lord” list
Nah this guy is kind of biased against none Skywalker era sith lords he would make all the ancient sith lords look super weak
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 I can’t imagine y
@@brianjordan3841 what?
@@alsimmonshellspawn6021 there aren’t too many Sith Lords/ Emperors beyond Darth Sidious other then Caedus n Krayt n I don’t c Marka Ragnos, Freedon Nadd, Exar Kunn, or Darth Vitiate being exponentially better then Palpatine or Bane much less Darth Plagues
@@brianjordan3841 ruclips.net/video/FvKE3uRBOjE/видео.html
A question on "Oneness with The Force": Did Obi-Wan Kenobi achieve it, much like Jacen, or Anakin Solo, or Grandmaster Luke? I ask due to how The ROTS Novelization describes him "Letting The Force flow through him, rather than him tapping into The Force for his power". With a description like that, could Kenobi have gone all glowy-god-mode like Jacen Solo versus Omini; perhaps against General Grevious, or Darth Vader (Mustafar Duel)?
I’ve been so hyped for this vid
Cade Skywalker might be my favorite of them as far as characters. Legacy comics were so good imo.
Good to see you again, old friend.
Also....First...May the Force Be With You.
It's absolutely stupid they decided to make the Skywalkers basically Super Saiyans and a magical bloodline
Magnificent. Worth the wait.
Great vid Evan. While I agree with the ranking for the most part, I did have some questions and an inconsistency I was hoping you could address.
1. While I do agree, Darth Vader is more powerful than Clone Wars/Revenge of the Sith Anakin Skywalker, it has been noted in various works (Disney Canon and EU material) that Vader himself considers Anakin to be a separate person from himself entirely. Is there a reason you didn’t consider them two separate characters and decided to group them together when ranking them?
2. Referring back to your Anakin Skywalker vs Jaina Solo match, you had Anakin and Jaina on par with each other for most of it with Jaina being declared the victor due to some advantages she had over Anakin. So, wouldn’t that warrant putting Anakin on the same tier as Jaina and by extension Vader as well?
3. Bit of an off topic question, but would you consider remaking your previous versus matches in the style you are now? It might be an opportunity to reexamine your previous matches if you’re opinions have changed on any of them.
Thank you! To answer your questions:
1. It's mainly based on the structure of the list. The idea was that since I was examining the Skywalkers as a whole, I would be taking in the entirety of their characterization and power progression, including any-and-all transformations. I agree that Anakin and Vader are different people psychologically (marginally), but since I wanted to focus on the progression of his strength, it made more sense to me to group his different personas under one banner.
2. Similarly to the Council scale, I view the categories from C Tier onwards in this video to only be divisible by EXTREMELY small margins. It is a seperation of HOW they use their powers rather than simply what they have. I think of it like how you can give out Bronze, Silver, and Gold medals to three Olympic sprinters who are only separated in their times by 0.5 seconds. Yes, they are ranked on different pedestals, but their actual levels of physical ability compared to each other are very small in the grand scheme.
3. For sure! There are past matches like Lord Hoth VS Darth Bane and others that I've definitely had my eye on redoing.
26:17, I’d advise you not to put words in the mouths of the writers; it’s people like you that make them not want to keep answering, or at least give very vague answers to questions.
Ron did not say what you said he said. He answered yes firstly to the question confirming that Maul was brought back to kill and usurp Vader’s place as Sids’ apprentice, and then next answered yes to the question of if Maul was prepared and/or powered up to fight Vader. The author never specified that Maul was empowered. Nothing in the text that I can recall points to this. However, it IS far more likely that Maul was prepared for the fight.
So please, you’ve for sure improved over the years, but you can afford to do better. Be more careful with your interpretations of things.
15:37 I assume Nat Skywalker's Jedi Robes was based on Anakin's Knight/RotS outfit.
Here we go! At least an hour of the nightshift - would be great!
Can’t wait for the Shmi skywalker number one placement 🫡
Just wanted to say I really appreciate Halo Wars' soundtrack being used in the background, very underrated soundtrack
Great list
5:49
“Lady Shmi there are too many of them, what are we going to do?”
Shmi: *pulls out the chankla*
Absolutely amazing. This video made me sub!
First, just wanted to say, epic list, totally see why you started with the first known Skywalker and totally didn't realize she was Force-sensitive. Great catch!
Issues I have with Anakin's and Ben's placing are as follows. Anakin routinely pulled out abilities that were obscure even in the days of the old Order such as using Morichro to slow the bodily function of an eel or his ability to use the Force to connect with machines. Let's not forget Vongsense which was totally crazy to me when I first read the NJO back when it was being published.
Ben might belong in this category as for me the impressive feats he achieved was more about how he could easily kill several Sith Lords at the same time in lightsaber combat. He did have a poor showing against the Mother though. So I'm sort of iffy if I'd put him in that category or not.
Just subscribed to your channel. Love the channel.
We need more people covering stuff from Legends.
To recommend some ideas, I think ranking prequel council members from weakest to strongest would be interesting! I dont think it has been made yet
God Yes my favorite kind of content
. Prime NJO Mara Jade sits alongside with Anakin and Cade, and Vader to be put above Jaina and below Jacen/Caedus.
37:04 and 37:27, Evan puts prime Caedus above prime sidious. damn it, now we need a prime Sidious (dark empire) vs Caedus vs
Prime Krayt.
the ultimate sith lord match up.
Wow. This list was WAY more thorough than I was expecting. And I'm all for it. If you would, I have a few matchups for the future.
1. Darth Vitiate vs Darth Sidious (rematch)
2. Darth Vader (no holding back) vs Dark Empire Luke Skywalker
3. Darth Krayt vs Darth Vader
4. Grand master Luke Skywalker vs Darth Sidious and Darth Vader a 2v1
Sidious, pretty easily(assuming this is DE Sidious)
Luke shitstomps Suit Vader, and barely beats Mustafar Vader
Krayt stomps Suit Vader, and gets beaten without too much difficulty by Mustafar Vader
Luke wins if it's Suit Vader, it's a toss up if it's Mustafar Vader
@@Christianlarsen-n2lhat puts darth sidious above vitiate
As it’s hard to even grasp the 2 in power
With many saying they are semi relative
Sidious maybe more skilled with a lightsaber and more knowledgeable given the rule of 2
Vitiate is more skilled with the force and has 1000 + years of experience
And power wise there can be a case made that they are equal
And in a fight it unlikely comes down to who can outsmart or skill the other
I think is a pure lightsaber fight sidious wins in a pure force fight I give it to vitiate for having more display
Basically it’s hard to toss up who is more powerful
But in terms of a fight I can see it going to siduous
As ultimately you can beat someone more powerful than you given you are more skilled and knowledgeable then they are with enough power to keep you in the game
Basically as the saying goes if equal in power a win comes down to other factors
Love your content mate
Really cool ranking list Evan. Excited to finally watch it.
Anakin is the strongest Skywalker when sandlusted. You underestimate his power!
Also, surprised you ranked Cade above Vader. Cade vs Anakin or Vader would be a really interesting matchup. I dont think Cades force power > Vader and he is def less skilled and experienced. Though Cades pimp force, hax, lightning, and insight into Vader means he would give Vader a really bad time.
Great discussion at the end comparing Luke's and Leia's potential to Anakin. As well as the arguments of the Skywalker family power dilution over the generations. I posted these matchups in Jensaarai1's latest video so might as well do so here.
Cade Skywalker vs Darth Cadeus: Anti Hero Skywalker vs Anti Villain Skywalker. My money is on Cadeus but I like it thematically.
Voong Infested Krayt vs Lumiya: (Post ROTJ Darth Vader Clones)
Jorus C'Baoth vs Master Faye: (can't be done sadly but mad Wizard vs High Elf looks cool)
Count Dooku vs Master Faye: (Saruman vs Galadriel)
The Ronin (SW Visions) vs Darth Wredd (I really like some episodes of Visions and it got me thinking of a good matchup)
General Grevious vs Am (Twin Sister from SW Visions): Not sure if 1 episode is enough to build a good profile for Am but I enjoyed Kill La Kill.
Lord Beida/Dark Vader + Dark Helmet vs Darth Vader (joke matchup): Darth Vader parodies vs the Original Vader.
Anakin Skywalker isn't the strongest, only at full potential but he's not the strongest
Nawww I missed the premiere, but hey my power is gone for the next 3 hours so this is some welcome entertainment. That being said when is ur content not a great time XD. Keep up your amazing work, you continue to be one of is not my favourite Star wars content creator, official or fan made
I actually believe Shmi to be force sensitive but unware like Leia who didn't show her force sensitivity by ability until adulthood and training.
I see parallels between Shmi and Mary mother of Christ who was said to be the most blessed among women and implied purity as in terms of sin.
I think Shmi was seen by the Force the same way God saw Mary.
So idk i think the Force would need a force sensitive woman to carry the Chosen one of the Force.
Any chance you could use Ben in a Versus Battle?
Also do you think Vestara should have remained a Jedi, I personally think so. Denning worst mistake in my opinion.
Also do you think Luke was a Guardian, Consular, or Sentinel?
Also thank you for this video! 🙏🏼
Im with you on that but i dont really like most of dennings work. Star by star is okay but the rest of his books dissapoint me compared to everyone else around him wether its allston travis or golden
@@jacobkarlin2946 I mostly agree, with the caveat that Denning can write kickass lightsaber duels. Caedus vs Luke in Inferno is probably my favorite duel in the whole franchise.
I think, had the EU continued, Vestara might have joined the One Sith.
And same, I'd love to see either Ben Skywalker or Anakin Solo used in matchup.
It wasn’t Denning’s call to have Vestara end the way she did. It was a editorial decision. (I dislike it as much as anyone).
Whaaaaaattttt.....? Vestara TRIED to be a Jedi for five minutes. And that all happened in Christie Golden's book. I don't agree with blaming him for everything they don't like in the Legacy Era.
How do you think Anakin/Vader would have developed as a Sith (both in terms of the force and lightsaber skills/form) if he hadn't lost on Mustafar?
Now that’s an interesting question. I think he would have never become quite as cold and calculating as his canon version became after Mustafar, and would channel the dark side explicitly through rage. His form would still be Djem So and he might add something of Ataru and Juyo to the mix instead of balancing his style, going for a fury-based offensive style like a Sith Marauder. Of course, his Force Power would have reached terrifying heights and he likely would have been able to perform techniques such as lightning with no trouble at all (edit: while I don’t think his powers would have been varied, they would be potent as hell)
Other than that, I don’t see suitless Vader focusing on anything too ethereal or esoteric like Sith sorcery or alchemy.
Would have literally become god, Lucas says he was powerful enough on Mustafar to save Padme, and maybe a month away from actually being able to do it, he also says doing that is impossible and unnatural, the issue with the dark side is it’s corruption of the living force, so eventually everything dies an it’s suicide basically, with all the Jedi dead the force is already dying which is what’s happening in the OT why the emperor is so crippled and why nobody can fight, because the living force is the power source for that. If Anakin didn’t get bashed up and lose all his power then he could have kept life going anyway with him as the source, instead of the force, literal god and this was only a month away, contrary to Evans conclusion in this video Anakin Skywalker should definitely be number one on this list
He didn't say Anakin or Lord Vader could be more powerful than them but will be more powerful of both of them
You are the best Star Wars RUclipsr. Thanks for staying true.
No mention of Jacen’s oneness?
Does anyone else find it funny that two boys from Tatooine ended up being in charge of the two best known force groups?
thanks your stuff is great
Impressive analysis, most impressive
I kinda hate all the stuff that's related to the Skywalker's after Luke and leia feels like they are just constantly trying to make the fans be like woah another Skywalker how crazy
same
Not only that but they have to be even more powerful than the last. Luke and Leia should be the only ones who could have become more powerful than their father (the literal Chosen One) only because he never reached his full potential. Any Skywalker born after the twins should have a substantially watered down potential.
I really wanna see a anakin skywalker vs Cade skywalker video now lmao anyways this was great thanks Evan
Can you or will you ever do a versus video between Revan and Darth Nihilus?
Because I think that would be a very interesting and unique versus video.
Physical: Revan
Lightsaber: Revan
Force: Tie
Equipment: Revan
Winner: Revan 8/10
Luke is AWESOME in legends
How did I miss this video when it was released. Only seeing it now.
This is a great tier list. Also, I think I might be spoiled on the verdict of Mara Jade Skywalker vs Cade Skywalker but oh well, I get to watching that video eventually. Very in depth and very enjoyable.
@Wes Bradley-Taubner yeah I was a bit busy/procrastinating on this one honestly.
Except every time a Jedi has a child they have less midiclorian count than the parent...sooo Anakin has a potential greater than his children.
The only ones with the potential to surpass him since he never reached his own full potential should be Luke and Leia.
I love your videos so much
Loved the Suited Vader respect
Same
@Wes Bradley-Taubner Agreed. Jaina vs Vader would be a close fight that really could go either way. Though if I had to bet money on one of them, id bet on Jaina
@Wes Bradley-Taubner Have to agree
Vader can't eat cereal to get his vitamins for the day. Therefore he loses.
@@DropkickNation Cold af🥶
20:00 And it seems like at least two other Sith helped Nihl take Kol down if you look at the next panel after Kol gets hit by lightning
Evan, Return of the Jedi is celebrating its 40th Anniversary this year, which is awesome!
Regarding Vader stomping Cade in that vision sequence, I’m a little confused as to why you think it doesn’t have much merit to it as far as a showcase of their skill levels go when you used Cade dueling a vision of Luke from that same run as evidence that suggests he would be able to.contend with and/or possibly outduel Mara Jade in their versus video. Did your opinion on that section of the video shift somewhat when researching this one?
Thanks, and much love for all the work you’ve been doing these past ten years Dude.
For your disclaimer sorry but Rey was never adopted. That’s one thing that a lot of people get wrong
19:23 Kol Skywalker's Gandalf moment.
I'm a servant of The Living Force (I'm a servant of The Secret Fire), wielder of these lighsabers in my hands (Wielder of The Flame of Arnor), none of you will pass (YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!!!)!!!!
Suggestion: Desann vs Jerec
Also is Legacy Era still in print?
THIS is the real Star Wars canon
I know this was a long time ago, but im only getting around to watching this; and i wanted to say thank you for pointing out that Obi-Wan was nerfed on Mustafar as well!
I see so many say that anakin was nerfed and Obi-Wan wasnt, therefore saying it wasnt a valid feat for Kenobi. However, we see Obi-Wan outright deny his duty to kill Anakin for a long time, and in the novel, we even see Obi-Wan be on the backfoot, then finally getting back into the flow of battle that he had against Grievous, meaning Obi-Wan was MASSIVELY hindered for most of the duel.
Just as in Luke vs Vader in ROTJ, people discredit Luke by saying Vader was hindered, but i rarely see people point out just how hindered Luke was as well. As hindered as Vader was, he at least would continue fighting and and according to the novel, aiming to kill, whereas Luke couldnt even develop the will to fight until his anger was pushed over the edge; and once that happened, he dismantled Vader within less than a minute.
Imo, in ROTJ, both Vader and Luke are massively underestimated, same as Obi-Wan in ROTS.
I watched this whole video to make sure he didn’t add Rey.
She’s not a true Skywalker fight me on it
Full Potential Caedus S plus tier. Caedus had only begun his sith career. In a couple of years he would have surpassed Luke and become the most powerful being in the galaxy barring Abeloth.
I am going to attempt to show that the Skywalkers' power levels are natural and NOT a product of Anakin's unique situation.
1) There are people who are strong in the Force with no ability to become Jedi or Sith. Two of these are Padmé Amidala and Han Solo. I believe that it might even be possible that such people subtly use the Force in forms of extraordinary persuasion or luck. These people, though lacking in trainable abilities, when married to either one another or to a Jedi, produce powerful Force Users. That being said, I believe the line of the Skywalkers from Shmi down always possessed the power to become the most powerful Jedi.
2) Shmi is NOT weak in the Force. While I agree with her ranking in the video, I believe that she shows multiple latent powers that would have been hers to command with knowledge and training.
My first example of her Force potential is her involuntary parthenogenesis. The Force reacted harshly to the machinations of Darth Plagueis to create the ultimate Force sensitive being and created Anakin, but this did not occur in a vacuum. There was only one such pregnancy, and she was it. I do not believe that she was just a truly random pick, but the Force oriented itself to an individual who was already a strong, if untrained presence. Second, she not only can sense Anakin nearby in ways beyond the normal, but she knows that Anakin is not destined to a life of slavery but has a peculiar destiny, perhaps manifesting a latent inclanation with shatterpoint. She is also able to assure Anakin that she will be just fine if he leaves, and as we see her prediction to be accurate, she might be gifted with the ability to foresee what may be. We know that she is concerned for Anakin when he races, and her mind is bent toward him during that time, and the novelization of Phantom Menace describes Anakin as falling into an abnormal headspace while flying, and he always comes home mostly intact no matter the problems. I believe that this may display an embryonic talent with battle meditation. Lastly, when dying and under torture, she sends out an appeal to Anakin that drives him nearly crazy attempting to resolve it. Because all of this talent is raw and untrained, she deserves to be at the bottom of the list, but for untrained talent, one should neither underestimate the feats that we see even in latent form.
3) Yoda sense that Padmé is also strong in the Force, and she is noted to have a persuasive personality, and we see it time after time as she induces even Jedi to follow her, even when it goes both against their better judgment and even prior intentions. As her death approaches, she lays the plans for how Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and other Senators will work against the Emperor while indicating that she will not be alive much longer, which also shows an ability to see the future.
4) Han is described as being strong in the Force, and though he evidenced fewer feats of precise latent Force, his incredible runs of luck are commented on, as is his flouting of nearly impossible odds, and his "bad feelings" are NEVER wrong.
So, we have Shmi who appears to have latent talents that might have allowed her under other circumstances to be a powerful Jedi, whose far more powerful son marries a woman strong in the Force without any ability to use it. Their daughter marries a man like her mother and the son marries a former Dark Side adept who is arguably for decades the second strongest Master in the new Jedi Order, and possibly would have been in the uppermost ranks of the old Order. The great-grandchildren of Shmi do equally as well, with Anakin pairing with Tahiri, though nothing comes of the pairing, Jacen becoming the consort for the Dathomiri Witch-Jedi Queen of the Hapes Cluster, Jaina becoming the wife of the ruler of the Imperial Remnant, and Ben romancing a powerful Sith apprentice. While the story ends before we reach the ending of these tales, we should not be surprised that the future Skywalker heirs maintained this pattern generation after generation, building a long bloodline of mighty Force wielders. If you look at the feats of each individual on the list, there is not one that could not have sat on a Jedi Counsel or been a frighteningly powerful Sith Lord in any era of Star Wars.
believe it or not, i actually think Padme may potentially be force sensitive, albeit in the same manner that Revan was able to touch the force through his connection with Bastila
Are you thinking of metra surik and kreia?
@@toptiercontent7123 yeah them too but also revan and bastila because of the bond that was created, the story's weird
Thanks for the Tukata section
0:38 Wrong. It started in 1976, when the novelization for (What we now call) A New Hope came out 6 months before The Movie itself did in May, 1977. Just as "In a hole in the ground, there lived a Hobbit" in "The Hobbit" was the first line of Tolkien's works; "Another galaxy, another time" is the first line of all Star Wars media, NOT "A Long Time Ago, In A Galaxy Far, Far Away". While most people in that time would've seen the movie, before reading its then 6 month old novelization, what is popularly considered the start of Star Wars; that isn't the same as the technical start of Star Wars in its first piece of media outside of George Lucas' mind/imagination, as well as the earliest scripts for the movie (If they somehow came out before even the novelization did).
I just started watching the video, btw. Hope it's really good. Just wanted to make a little clarification right-off-the-bat (38 seconds into it, actually).
Full Potential Anakin murders his entire Family Tree with zero difficulty, And you all know it
Epic. Video. Fax.
But I think Mara is higher than Nat level via Here being able to fight against Caedus with prep time. I would at least put Mara in Kol Skywalker level.
But I don’t think it’s all that crazy that Cade would be relative to Vader in power. Cade is actually op.
But I’ve always said that Vader is above Anakin. Even Yoda. Vader is probably on that tier.
But you said that shmi was slightly Force sensitive but everyone in Star Wars are force sensitiv. But i understand.
Great video. Really enjoyed it.
But I think Anakin Solo is above Ben via scaling to pre prime Jacen.
Vader is definitely not above Yoda. Vader is capped at 80% of the Emperor - which could not near-stalemate the Emperor in a Force duel.
Vader is above Anakin in some ways (telekinesis, telepathy, energy deflection), and Anakin is above Vader in some ways (lightsaber combat, Force augmentation, Force visions). It all depends on how the combat scenario plays out between then.
@@theopportuneson699 Sidious grew in power a lot. Obviously he said it in the video.
@@DarthKraytsolosCanon500 George Lucas set the Emperor as a baseline in interviews. That Yoda could match him, but only Skywalkers could surpass him. In Lucas’ mind, the Emperor did not grow noticeably in power between ROTS and ROTJ.
The Emperor has all the powers in ROTS that he has in ROTJ. What basis do you have to say he “obviously” grew.
@@theopportuneson699 Where did Lucas say this. And there’s many statements. And if we take that logic of Vader being 20 % les then Sidious. That would mean if Sidious grew by 20 % Vader and Yoda would be equal but if he grew by 30% Vader would be 10 % stronger than Yoda etc. and its not that crazy. I actually think Yoda is extremely overrated to the point where people get angry when he loses. And The Kar vastor scaling. Vastor being comparable to Yoda and Vader one year after ROTS being started stronger than him.
Have you even watch STP video on Jedi and Sith ranked by power.
And I can’t se the problem with Vader being stronger than Yoda. I just think that Yoda is extremely overrated and Most of the people defending him are mostly biased.
@@theopportuneson699 your response?
Great Video