Lily Orchard DOESN'T understand Mary Sues Ft.
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Stay tuned for the full video.
Lily Orchard made a video a few months back called "Mary Sues are Fun, Actually." Periodic Pete and I are responding to that video to see if any of it was... convincing. The full video will be feature-length, so hopefully, this preview will do for now. Hope y'all enjoy.
Thumbnail by @periodicpete5811
Lily's Mary Sue video: • Mary Sues Are Fun, Act...
Also, I created a playlist of either RUclipsrs talking about the Mary Sue trope or explaining it within an existing critique. It seems that Lily somehow missed them all while making this video: • Mary Sue videos that L... .
Follow me on:
anilist.co/use...
/ youngkaiser3
The Newtypes Podcast:
www.youtube.co....
All properties featured in this video belong to their original sources.
Describing "Mary Sue" as a narrative trope rather than a character trope is perfect.
the only thing she ever convinced me was is that the Horseshoe theory is true
What is horseshoe theory?
Jesus christ after watching this preview. This makes me hate Lily Orchid even more. She fundamentally doesn't understand how media analysis works in discussions not understand why they exist in the first place. To put the final nail in the coffin, She disingenuously ignores the true issue with the trope being present in media and just brushes it off as "girl power bad". Purely Asinine
Lily also doesn’t understand mortality, terrifyingly so…
@@LegacyComics100 At this rate, I wonder if she doesn't understand anything at this point.
If you hate her now, just wait until you hear of what she did to her sister
@@pessimisticzinogre6429 Jesus, she seriously did what to her sister?
the close up of rey chest at 8:25 is really ridicoulus
LILY ORCHARD BASHING (WHILE ACTUALLY BEING CORRECT AND HAVING EVIDENCE & FACTS TO PROVE IT), LET'S GOOOO
To be honest, I can't wait to see what you and Pete will show us for cooking. And to be frank, I never saw SAO, because I heard that how overpowered Kirito was. A beta tester, who starts out on much more higher advantage over everyone else. And about RWBY, I can only quote Critter's "Heroes" video: "Team RWBY might not be the villains here. But they are a bunch of temper throwning, spoiled, rotten brats."
And another example: Dr. Rey in the Disney Sequel Trilogy. In The Rise of Skywalker, she literally knows every single thing, that makes the Jedi the warrior they are. And only because, it was made that the Dark Side was in her blood. Like, what?
I love overly sarcastic productions.
Naming videos "Lily Orchard doesn't understand x" is becoming a trend and I'm all for it
Superman being a Gary Stu I really do not get. Sure, if we're talking say golden age Superman, Robot may have a point. But if it's DCAU Superman, that's incorrect. Clark gets beaten and challenged physically, mentally, and spiritually. Heck, one of my favorite moments with Superman is in Justice League's animated series where Darkseid comes to Superman and the League for help against Brainiac (Brainiac has taken over Apolkolpis) and Superman refuses. The reason is that he still has resentment over Darkseid for brainwashing him in Superman TAS series finale and it took Batman to talk him out of it. And even during that episode, Superman comes off as aggressive and stubborn towards his teammates. If Superman was a Gary Stu in that, Batman would have been framed as the bad guy for disagreeing with Superman by other members of the league or his challenges towards Superman wouldn't have been followed up with good arguments, like say him being brainwashed also by Brianiac and connecting to Clark with that as well.
Facts
I’m pretty sure that claim came to be cause Superman has been depicted with all these overpowered abilities that could mean he can solve anything if he wanted to, as well silver age Superman pretty much making up all these new powers and breaking the bounds of infinity to find someone.
Even though 1.)That’s been a problem with DC in general not solely exclusive to Superman, I’m pretty sure Batman has kicked the Spectre once, 2.) Superman can turn out to be the lesser of this, depending on the writer or story event and 3.) we all know being solely powerful is not what makes up a Mary Sue, and Clark does get cornered with social flaws from time to time.
So long story short, stakes are important and the reason that glosses over people’s heads with Mary Sue is the repercussion of their actions.
Wanda is a villain sue cause even when she’s the villain of the story, she’s written as “justified” by everyone, so going by Steven Universe logic, all she has to do is say sorry and all of her actions would be brushed off.
Also, if you want a female fighter you have to give them the hands like everyone else so you can gain investment, not to say punch a bloody hole through them but rather demonstrate stakes with a villain who can throw the hands showcasing a level of difficulty instead of the girl practically winning the first fight with ease like Rey with Kylo.
I was looking through the playlist, and- oh my god, you watch Den of the Drake as well!? That's awesome!!
Favorite storytime youtuber
@@KaiserShounen You also watch sarcastic productions?
@@littlebabyman8494 I've seen most of their trope talks
I think the reason Korra masters fire, earth and water so fast is for the sake of the audiance and the plot. It is a sequel to the Last Airbender where we spent the whole series watching Aang master those elements. It makes sense we would skip those with Korra.
Supwrman is not a mary sue because he may be a paragon of justice and super strong most of the times there's situations where his ideals are challenged
Correct
@@KaiserShounen the Justice League unlimited is the perfect exemple
Two of my RUclipsrs going head to head
I used to follow her because there are some of her opinions I do agree with and I respected her attitude where she grew some spine and is willing to throw down when challenged without hiding behind her fans. But years later around 2023, I stopped following her after I got tired of her Narcissistic nature where she lashed out at people due to her ignorance, believed she could do no wrong, and did some horrible things like sending death threats to Vaush (I'm not defending Vaush for being a creep, but sending death threats is not the best situation to solve the problem) and constantly making bad takes with lack of claims and piece of information. And now after seeing this for how low she has gotten, she's a joke to me.
Lol Kaiser about to destroy Lilly like Abby destroyed Joel's head in the Last of Us Part 2
3:19 I love how you used Natsu from Fairy Tail as a visual representation for the term “overpowered.” He’s not only an idiot that makes Goku, Naruto, and Monkey D. Luffy seem as intelligent as Lelouch vi Britannia, he’s also one of the characters that Hiro Mashima uses to break up any tension or immersion with whatever story he’s trying to tell. Him and Erza.
I’m enjoying it so far, but the first few points about Korra were really bad examples of Mary sue. The last few make sense, but the bending was explained by showing us how she grew from a little child to around 8 or so years of mastering the 3 elements she could understand. Energy bending is lowkey a bending style that can’t be taught otherwise. If you wanna say Aang giving it to her is bs say the turtle giving it to aang is ass bs. Better point to make would’ve been “why did aang give korra the avatar state master controls??? It implies that the previous avatars could’ve given the new one master control instantly without the suffering. Also for the metal bending, it was never expressed that seismic sense is needed to metal bend. Comics and korra have shown that you just need to feel the earth in the metal. Hell toph shown that, she just needed more focus to do so using seismic sense. Not everyone needs to learn seismic to learn metal bending however.
1. Though yes Korra had the benefit of training since she was younger, Roku didn't have the pressure of war and yet it took him until he was at least at his 30s to master the elements whereas Korra got good at the 3 in a few years. However I would be willing to put this aside if it was for these other things.
2. Name one Avatar fan that DOESN'T think the lion turtle giving Aang energy bending wasn't bs lol. Besides if Aang can give THAT to her, whats stopping the past lives from giving them control of the other elements from the start? And also we did point out how easily she can control the Avatar state in the video.
3. Putting comics aside (because you shouldn't need external material to explain what should be in the show), before Korra it seemed very heavily implied that you needed seismic sensing to metal bend. It's a believable limitation that explains why Toph was able to bend metal before literally anyone else could. What better way to sense the earth within the metal than to do so via vibrations and such? But Korra just gives a massive shortcut for honestly very little reason. It also brings into question why other earth benders never bothered to do something similar, especially ones captured by the fire nation. This all could have easily been solved if they kept the seimic sense stuff consistent. Its not like giving Korra seismic sense at the start would have changed very much.
That said, I do appreciate the comment.
@@KaiserShounen 1. Roku learnt he was the avatar at age 16 and training to learn all 4 elements was during a time of peace, while korra learnt she was the avatar at most age 8, and during a time when they really stressed her needing to learn the elements as soon as possible. If we also look at Aang mastering or at least being very proficient in the other 3 elements in around 8 months, it’s not that much of a stretch.
2. If we look at the lion turtle, it is not much of a stretch that Aang would just give korra the ability to energy bend. With your point about how the other avatars never gave the current ones bending abilities, idk 🤷🏿♂️ because the ability to just give current avatars bending abilities was basically set up since season one of avatar the last airbender with Aang going crazy in the avatar state (he was able to water and earth bend like a master while mad) and how previous avatars could just take control of Aang if he just approved of it, or if kioshi wanted to be a bad bitch. Its more of a plot whole in the whole series then just korra at that point. Another point that can be made is korra only energy bends in the avatar state, which makes sense. It shows either aang is giving that knowledge or she needs to be in the avatar state to do so. It’s more of a plot whole in the series in total and not just in Korra’s existence.
3. No where is it shown you need seismic sense to metal bend. Why does toph use seismic sense to bend metal. 1. She’s stuck in a metal box, look at the masters of each bending element who have created new abilities with bending. It’s like how we in the real world experiment with shit. 2. Toph needs seismic sense to see at all. As shown in Korra no one is actively using seismic sense to metal bend, and if you say “well maybe all the other metal benders are using seismic sense to metal bend and we just can’t see it, we don’t see toph use it all the time while bending” 1. If that can be implied it can be implied Korra was tought seismic sense, but as you see in Korra the way of metal bending taught by Toph’s daughter herself isn’t using seismic sense to feel the earth in the metal, but just feeling the earth in the metal. If you don’t want to use material outside of the show made by the creators of the show, then use the explanations given by the show. Avatar the last airbender explained it as feeling the earth from inside the metal at least twice. Korra has explained it as feeling the earth inside the metal as well. I don’t know what more you need?
@@bjas60 1. Well I wouldn't say Aang MASTERED the elements in about 8 months. He was proficient with them but it was clear even by the shows admission that it was a rushed job overall. Plus, even though it is a time of peace, its still weird how Roku needed to be at least in his 30s to master all the elements whereas Korra was able to get to that level at 16. I doubt the training methods would be that much different given a hundred years time and even THEN if I grant you this, this wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the other elements that make Korra a Sue. Thats where the favoritism comes in.
2. In TLA, the avatar state giving the avatar bending was only possible in very specific scenarios (I.e how Roku's possession happened). Plus given how the Avatar state was uncontrollable for most of the show, this gave Aang reasonable limits that would not interfere with the rest of the lore. But in Korra, she was not only given energy bending (which wouldn't be so bad if she could only use it during the avatar state) but now she has master control over the avatar state to the point of casually using it in a obstacle course. And they... gave that to her. It being a series plot whole is the problem. Remember what I said, a Mary Sue warps the plot around it to benefit the Sue. This plot hole benefits Korra so that she could easily get her bending back without much trouble or even meditation.
3. I mean, Toph uses seismic sense all the time while she is fighting but its not like we always get the visual cue when she's using that either. We just rightfully assume she's using it because that's how she moves and fights. And again this would be fine if we were shown that Korra also had the sense, but she never learns that, which makes it confusing going from the first show and the other and just finding out "Oh I guess you don't really need this skill to use metal bending after all". It's not IMPOSSIBLE for that to be the case but much like all the other examples its oddly convenient for Korra because that means that's one less skill she needs to learn in order to move the plot along, which is a running problem with Mary Sue's in general. Also if "feeling the earth" was a requirement, that doesn't explain why the hundreds of Earth bender soldiers that were inprisoned on Fire nation metal ships never thought to feel the earth and learn metal bending themselves. Over the course of 100 years.
Like I said, its not impossible, but it seems oddly contrived juxtaposed to how it was introduced. But if you don't think so, lets agree to disagree.
@@KaiserShounen I really think you aren’t paying attention to either show, especially your last point. If they’d the case it’s really weird no one but Hama learnt blood blending that 1 night the moon was up even tho many were imprisoned. It’s weird no other airbender learnt how to fly after years of training to detach yourself from the world, it’s weird there’s not more lava benders through just thinking about boiling the earth. Some people understand how to feel that especially in desperate times. We saw in Avatar the last airbender that they lost hope. It took katara and the gang to give them that hope back. If it wasn’t for that they would’ve just never learnt it. They aren’t as stubborn as toph. We have spent almost a whole season with toph to learn she is just that bitch and will not give up. If “feeling the earth “ is not a good enough explaination given by the creators by multiple areas of the stories from the books, and both shows, idk what to tell you. You are just ignoring what is given to you. Your Mary sue points are flat when taking in consideration the context of both the production of the show and the context of the story itself. Many points you’ve give can be used on Aang as well but instead you are focusing on Korra instead of any other character who are clear Mary sues and perfect example. Captain marvel, ray, man even Wanda during Wandavision or the Doctor strange 2 movie. No you wanna focus on a character who your first 3 points are completely unreasonable. “She learnt how to bent too fast compared to Roku” no Roku just took his time because he was in no rush. We can clearly see him having fun the whole time, plus he was learning how to use the avatar state as well which was definitely hard during the time. “If Korra can be given energy bending why not the others” because the others require a teacher of the current times. Bending style and ways people fight with it may change with time. Many previous avatars could’ve taught current ones bending but why not? They need to learn it themselves it’s how previous ones have. Energy bending is one thing that can’t really be taught. Aang wasn’t taught it but given it. Of course Korra would be given it. The abilities being given back might be a Mary Sue situation, energy bending however is very understandable.
The more I read your comment the more I see you actively are ignoring the story given to you. You actively ignore things shown and told by the original show itself. It’s very sad how much stretching the truth you have to do to try to make a point on Korra being a Mary sue when we have much better examples that exists. Korra at the very least shown her struggles with life and learning how to be connected with the spirits and with the people of the world. Other characters lack that which makes them more like Mary sues.
@bjas60 Dude, chill out a bit. First off I mentioned Wanda in this video and of course more examples of sues will come up for the whole vid. So I hope you will stick around then.
Second, like I said before its not impossible that seismic sense isn't a requirement for metal bending, but its a weird change to push forth when there are many other instances of Avatars world being changed for Korra's benefit. Even by your admission. I've already explained why Aang learning the other elements (and not mastering them) make sense along with saying that him being given energy bending was bad storytelling. So where is the hypocrisy exactly? Its not like I'm saying what you said wasn't true, just that it speaks suspect on the writers when most of these changes or loopholes mainly serve to make Korra more perfect then she already was. Also on this "needs to learn from benders of current times thing", not sure if that was ever said to be a requirement but even if it was, why wouldn't Roku or the other past lives give Aang the knowledge and skill of the elements and get taught further techniques by the current teachers? Given how they know or will find out that Sozins comet is coming, you'd think (with what Korra set up with how Aang can just show up without her needing to meditate or needing to be at a specific spot relating to the past avatar) that would just show up and give Aang what he needs because he needs to end the war as soon as possible. But they didn't which is weird how the rules needed to be different for Korra just to get her bending back and the bending of the other characters without her needing to work for it.
But either way, whether or not I'm correct on these 3 issues you have, we both agree that Korra is a Sue. So if you want to discuss this further, that's fine. But I can't help but feel you're being a tiny bit hostile here when its not that serious lol
The live action made me so mad like yeah Mulan is a badass but like everyone else she has to work for and also takes away the coming of age aspect to her story as well
Oh boy it’s lily orchard 💀💀
Another thing Just a robot said in his mary sue video was that Harry Potter was a mary sue because Harry had to struggle a lot abd needed the help of almost all of his friends to win against his ennemies the only time he won only by himself it those movies was in the first one the other ones at least one person helped him.
I would need to rewatch Harry Potter to know whether that is the case or not but I don't think that's a good argument.
@@KaiserShounen fair enough but I do have better ones now so here we go:
In the movies he has a tendency to get reckless for example in movie 5 there a lot of moments where he is overly aggressive which is pointed by a lot of his friends
In movie 6 he uses a spell he barely knows on Drago Malfoy which almost kills him, and the scene shows he is in the wrong for doing that.
in movie 7 he tries to fight Voldemort alone which his friend tells him is bad idea since he would get killed
in movie 5 He tries to fight Bellatrix which ends with Voldemort almost killing him since if he had stayed with the others he would have been fine showing once again his recklessness
In movie 3 he fails to stop Wermtail to run away.
In once again movie 3 although he does do a powerful spell named the patronus charm it took some trial and error in the movie
Just a robot also makes the point that everyone who hates him either becomes dead or evil or both.
Which is a stretch.
In movie 4 almost everyone hated him, and they are just shown to be simply somewhat misguided not straight up evil, hell when he proves he IS capable by surviving a dragon the hatred stops.
hell in that movie the only person who DIDN'T hate him ends up dying.
So those are all of my points.
seems legit but i'll reserve judement until i see the films myself@@malikpierre-louis3343
The heck, your definition for a Mary Sue, is no different than Overly Sarcastic Productions.
So we're both right 😎
As someone who’s read some of Lily’s own “writing”, her work is Mary Sue personified. Not only are the characters supremely overpowered and favored by the narrative, but as a result, it gets in the way of whatever themes or ideas she even wants to have. This includes protagonists forgetting they have an OP ability so the story can have fake tension, the story failing to make them seem relatable as a result of these powers, other characters receiving less development than the protagonists, them coming across as more unlikable and even villainous than the supposed antagonists, and their existence not making any sense in the context of established worldbuilding. In short, Lily is the Norman Boutine as fanfiction.
1:47 Wow, I watched most of these.
Lily doesn’t known Mary Sue?
Funny neither you folks. :p
Then explain it to the class.
@@anneoneal3865 Why should I bother?
You clearly are going to being in denial.
@@felixbenitez6169
Or maybe your ego can't handle random jerks online telling you that you might be wrong.
@@anneoneal3865 Funny you talk about ego when you folks have a huge fragile ego. Funny you folks talk about how Lily Orchard have a ego, yet you folks are not so different from her. You simple too proud to admit you are wrong, and that you do not like to taste your own medicine.
@@anneoneal3865 Funny you talk about ego when your ego is the fragile one here. I found irony you folks talk about Lily Orchard being a toxic person, yet you folks are not so different from her. XD
Touch Some Grass.
X will always be cool 😎 your video was great too.
great video
Thank you. Hope you stick around for the full video next month
0:51-0:59 Starting off the video by poisoning the well is the sign of a terrible video.
Can we call Jesus Mary Sues?