Hyundai Ioniq 5 N Is The Answer - The Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 141
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- Опубликовано: 15 апр 2024
- There's finally a hot-hatch for enthusiasts that runs on electricity - and it's a $67,500 Hyundai!
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This is the Embargoed first review of the 2025 Hyundai Ioniq 5 N by Jason Cammisa!
The Ioniq 5 N isn't just an EV - it has a mode called N e-Shift that emulates an internal combustion engine and 8-speed dual-clutch automatic.... and it's so good, it could genuinely fool an enthusiast into thinking it's real.
Should this be happening? Is simulated fun as good as real fun?
Well, on track, the Ioniq 5 N is actual fun - with a well-behaved, well-balanced chassis set up for tail-out antics. Learn all about it in this full review from Jason Cammisa.
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yall went like four whole episodes without discussing vintage Mercedes. apparently it caused derek so much distress he had to go buy two of them to relieve himself
I'd love to hear these two cover the R107. Or tear it to bits. Either way. it'll be entertaining.
Sold the w140 to use the money for his new business.Buys like 3 new old Merc 2 of them are R129.Legend.
N stands for “Namyang” their proving ground
N for "Namyang" and "Nürburgring". Still a cheesy naming convention imo
I'm pretty sure 'N' stands for "it will make people mentally associate it with BMW M".
Listened to this whilst driving. "farting through toilet paper" had to pull to the side of the road and stop.
and do what?
Lmfao yeah that was fuckin greT
@@misternordberg3675 fart through a toilet paper roll duh 😂
Wonder if the Ioniq vs. Lucid differences boil down to having a top guy from BMW vs. Lotus. Lotus remains a holdout against the world of many adjustment modes - "We will set up this car correctly and you will enjoy it without having to conduct a lab experiment."
People don't hate gimmick, they just hate gimmick done wrong. I'm love the idea of ioniq 5 N but only thing I'm sad about is that the smallest EV performance car they offer is size of Tuscon/RAV 4... I've heard that Ioniq 6 N might be coming with shorter wheelbase but I think even thats half-size bigger than Elantra/Civic
Yeah, I the biggest car I could see myself owning here in London is i30n sized, although I would prefer an i20n personally, I’m still in that old mindset where a heavy car is over 1400kg, in todays world that is a ‘civic’
Sadly the 6 has a 50mm shorter wheelbase so it won't be any drastic change. Most people don't want to give up on the interior space so we'll have to wait until the N team gets a standalone vehicle using the skateboard platform.
Time for Hyundai to make an honest-to-God RWD sports car. They have a near miss or two in their history, but they should be better positioned to do it right this time.
When's the embargo going to end on the ND-3 Miata? Much more interested in that than the Ioniq 5 N. I'd much rather drive a momentum car with a manual.
19th
I want allllll of this in something the size of the i20 N or i30 N with less power. Can you imagine how fucking fun that would be?!?!
Affordable car for the plebs?!?!?!?! Nahhhhhh
@@jutman17761 yep, it seems that we, plebs should just ride the train, the bus, the tram or the metro; interesting fun cars are now only for the rich.
This
And looks like that N 74 vision coupe thing.
VW is trying with the GTE. Everyone loves the new Model 3 Performance so there's that.
The 5N race car they prepped for this year actually plans to have different sounds per team, so licensing issues aside a V12 sound update is in the realm of possibility.
100%, E39 530i LCI was a very solid tuned chassis. Had one for 12 years... looking fwd to the ND3 review.
This podcast is the reason why I have a Veloster N
Five years ago my RWD manual transmission sedan rusted away. I replaced it with my first (after 40 years of driving) automatic sedan. That car was replaced by a Lucid Air this January. My feeling was if I couldn't shift an ICE I might as well get rid of most powertrain involvement and go fully electric.
Congrats on the Air! How is living with it?
@@vladx2 So far so good. Quick, comfortable, effortless driving. Downsides are charging in the middle of longer trips is a bit of a hassle. But if you add in all the time saved not fueling for day-to-day driving less time is spent on fueling. Use of touch screens controls is distracting when driving. Every time I adjust the HVAC direction the car warns me to keep my eye on the road.
@@cgmoog that should get better when you get access to NACS and the more prolific supercharger network(at least here in the US).
@@schwartzki Not really the Tesla network uses an older lower voltage standard. They have plans but no timeline for introducing higher voltage chargers (like they have plans for a Roadster). With the lower voltage architecture, charging will be way too slow for me (50kW max) to make use of their network.
This N is pretty sweet.
I want one.
Not a Hyundai guy, by far, but if Jason, Mr. manual or nothing, says the "shifting" is good, then it really must be.
In coming few years, I'm expecting parody and spoof films to be nominated Academy Awards and Oscar.
As an owner of a performance CUV Macan, as well as other sports cars the Macan is what I drive when I need to drive around Bay Area in luxury/quiet/comfort, carry people around, and hit highway 9, all in one day. Its perfect for luxury&practicality without giving much up on driving dynamics. Ours gets a lot of use and love.
I owned a GTI with DSG and an ILX. I'd own either again. It's a commuter car, but slightly fun. An enthusiast-ish car with an automatic trans is perfectly fine as long as you're getting it for the right reasons and not pretending it's something it's not.
GTI is still one of the best daily drivers out there.
I am the one who consider buying one. I come from a bmw 128 manual and a Genesis G70 RWD. The only other cars on the market that excite me are the BMW M2 manual (but sooo ugly) or Cadillac CT4 v BW manual. The Ioniq5 N is the only thing that seems FUN enough as an alternative for a fun daily driver
I had a friend who had a fever for 10 days. I told him he should get checked-out because that's not normal. He ended up being diagnosed with cancer and died within 6 weeks.
You had me at 9,000 RPM hot hatch.
If you're wanting to try something very similar to the recent Megane RS, find a 6MT Juke Nismo RS (not the normal Nismo, the RS specifically). They shared the same engine, and the Nismo RS had a trick diff and more power than the normal Nismo (as well as the amazing Recaro Sportster CSs). That's the closest we got to the modern Renault hot hatches, and (maybe biased, since I owned one) they were way more fun than they had any right to be. Bonus points for being cheap second hand, so you can have fun without breaking the bank!
I decided to watch the review before the show and very glad I did so! Every little recollected detail accentuated what we saw on their faces throughout the filming :)
What's the point of an EV acting like an ICE vehicle???? Can someone please explain this to me??
My thought entirely. How can a driver embrace this "enhanced reality" experience knowing it's not real? Is who has the best fakery the future of the automobile? And what does embracing that say about us? I there no longer any value in a real, as opposed to faked, experience?
It was implemented with feedback from N Motorsports drivers.
While testing the electric sports rolling lap, they had difficulty predicting speed and accurately judging acceleration/deceleration timing due to the quietness of the electric vehicle, which caused the illusion of slower speed compared to the actual speed, and the absence of gear shifting and RPM sounds.
This is why virtual shifting and virtual sound are included, and many drivers say that although virtual shifting causes a slight speed loss, using this feature helps reduce lap times overall, and it does. SPORT AUTO, which professionally measures Nürburgring lap times, also measured times with this feature enabled.
1. Hyundai N | The all-new ELANTRA N World Premiere 8:09 Here, Albert Biermann decides to create the N performance car with EV together with the N development team.
2. At first, there were many concerns and opposition within the N development team. At that time, I knew that electric vehicles were heavy and unsuitable for circuits due to overheating of the brakes and batteries.
3. Nevertheless, it was agreed that the overwhelming and immediate acceleration and torque of electric vehicles is a strong advantage and attraction that internal combustion engines cannot have. After experiencing high-performance electric vehicles, many people said that internal combustion engines were boring.
4. Afterwards, they build electric rolling laps like the RM20e and test electric cars with professional racing drivers from N Motorsports on various circuits.
Looking at the RM20e, you can see that it started out with a natural sound unique to electric vehicles.
5. When conducting an official time lap at the Nürburgring, there was some feedback from drivers about the sound. Many drivers said that when driving a racing car and decelerating and accelerating in a corner, they depend more on the gear range and RPM sound than the actual RPM and speed displayed on the speedometer, and because this is not present in electric vehicles, the illusion is that it feels slow even though the actual speed is fast. Compared to dividing the overall speed into 8 stages and judging it according to each RPM sound, it is more inaccurate to predict the current speed from 0 to 100 without any division, and it is also difficult to accurately detect acceleration and deceleration timing. It was.
6. The N development team named the driver's sense of detecting invisible information such as RPM sound and vibration separately from information such as the numbers displayed on the actual instrument panel as SIXTH SENSE, and discussed ways to implement this in electric vehicles. do.
7. This is where it differs from other electric cars that just make fake sounds based on acceleration percentage, and is why the sounds are provided along with the virtual shift.
In order to not lose the SIXTH SENSE in an electric car, they had to implement a virtual transmission as well, which required a complex algorithm that was much more difficult to implement compared to just emitting sounds based on accelerating percentage. So, this is actually implemented with a much more advanced form of technology than the virtual sound used in other electric vehicles or the virtual sound used in existing internal combustion engines.
(Yes, of course, the sound quality itself is not high, but the algorithm on which it runs is at a level that cannot be implemented in existing vehicles.)
8. For this purpose, they installed speakers in the engine room and the bottom of the rear trunk. The engine sound sounds from the front speakers and is connected so that the vibration of the woofer is transmitted to the room, and the exhaust sound like a popcorn sound sounds from the rear speakers. In addition, the internal speakers assist with the overall sound.
9. The sound was created through feedback from N Motorsports drivers, so it is based on the 4-cylinder 8-speed DCT used in N racing cars.
10. The unfortunate thing is that the sound level of speakers is limited by the laws of each country. Because of this, the 5N, which is intended for use only on circuits, reproduces a more realistic sound.
It will be implemented at the upcoming IONIQ 5 N eN1 Cup.
Makes the 641hp car more controllable and predictable
You guys are far and away the best channel for enthusiasts. Thanks for all the great content.
Visited my dealer yesterday and I can test drive one in a month or so. Can't wait to see if this will be my new daily.
I owned a Veloster N and tried a i30N in the EU and they drive very similarly the almost feel the same tbh, i was right at home
As I’ve said to Derek before, if either of you are in Sydney, Australia the keys to my Renault Sport Clio 182 are yours. I’m sure i could wrangle together a charcuterie board of Renault Sport products to sample too.
I've just ordered one to have alongside my GT-R. It really is amazing
"It went through the tires so quickly, I don't see anyone doing that in the real world."
This is actually the biggest problem with calling these cars "performant". Sure the limits are high, but burnt out tires are not something that your average driver will recognize. I can picture several situations where bald tires on a massive vehicle lead to an unavoidable crash, in the real world.
Crashes due to shit-tier maintenance practices aren't "unavoidable", they are the definition of avoidable, just take actual care of your multi-ton machine worth tens of thousands of dollars instead of acting like the tires regrow when you park it.
Seeing as Jason is giving such a high praise for the Veloster N, I will have to keep a hold of my i30N Hatch. I have been looking for something better (A45S or RS3), but I really enjoy the Hyundai. It does so many things well.
Opel made an electric Manta that looked like the Manta A a few years back with a 4 or 5 speed manual gearbox.
It looked good (even internal, it wasn't playing in the "who has the mostest, biggestest displays that are not integrated" game)
I only have seen a german racecar driver have a go in it on public roads, and he seemed intrigued by the fun of a manual gearbox in an EV. (even though it makes little sense efficiency wise)
I bought the Ioniq N. It’s already an ICON for changing the game all others will follow. GT4 & C8 & now the N. Not sure that says what kind of buyer I am, but I love it for any environment and plan to take it to the track & AutoX. What tires or even size wheels should I get for track days? This I want to know. Loving it! Great feedback. Enjoyed the video. 😮
Jason I'd love to see you review the Ineos Grenadier and get your thoughts on this podcast.
I've been wanting something similar to this for a while.
I'm a big fan of lightweight cars with peaky N/A engines. The lowdown torque from EVs is undeniable, it's to bad it comes at the price of big heavy batteries.
I think the perfect solution is a small displacement 4 banger (like a 1.3 liter) with a centrifugal supercharger making about 200HP at like 9000RPM paired with an electric motor. But program the motor controller to ramp up the torque of the motor, rather than having it all available from 1RPM. That way you feel more surge and a strong midrange in the powerband. And as the ICE starts making peak power, reduce torque from the e-motor. Small battery. It's basically an economy car that happens to have a fun engine
Please include a Model 3 Performance in your comparison w the Uris and etc
N stands for "Namyang" which is one of province in SouthKorea that they built the Hyundai driving test facility in there
I am South Korean and you guys can trust me on this one
Shoutout to Vin.
Great shows lately, im talking INFORMATIVE AF last one with the adaptive matrix lights for pfftlllf’s sake I didn’t know grrrpffkkf all about that. I remember some handling eps that were great or automotive history, right I know what it is. When they prepare something, it’s really good vs when they dad joke their way through one of these.
Nice VR6 head gasket, I am not surprised by the MX5 vs I5N comparison an a twisty bumpy road, suspension tuning can only work to a certain point until physics cant keep up anymore
Would LOVE to hear your opinion on french hot hatches. May I recommend the R26/R Megane and a clio 172/182 if you don't go straight to the most modern/most capable (but less engaging) Megane 280/300?
Owned BMW's for 20 years and I wanted an EV, I'm the kind of guy who buys these cars. I absolutely love my I5N. It does everything well. I really wanted an EV sport wagon but I don't want to take out a mortgage for one. Wagons seem to have become toys for the ultra rich now, in the US at least.
Anyone else over 40 get slightly excited when they heard the dial up noise at the intro???
I have a WRX. I like it a lot. The VA chassis CVT WRX is literally the worst car I've ever driven. Go team.
Yeah this was more specifically targeting automatic warriors who think that it qualifies as a performance/enthusiast car when in fact it’s neither a good performance car nor as fun as the Ioniq 5 N doing its best imitation of a 2.0 liter turbo car…
So I'm not alone 😂 it's one of the most "normal car with a powerful engine" cars to ever exist
The fact a base model 2017 Ford Fiesta automatic has a cooler trans than a WRX is ridiculous, Subaru need to step up their game, atleast use a Dual clutch instead of a belt CVT
Ioniq 5 reviews makes me wanna buy a Miata. :-) Thanks
40:38 Peugeot 308 GTI II (T9). Amazing hot-hatch. 270 hp from a 1.6 turbo, a good manual, no AWD non-sense, 380 mm front brakes and just 2,650 lb to tow around.
And there are some cars here in Mexico. Just hurry before the Prince engines in the last ones destroys itself.
With simulated acceleration and gear change variations they could simulate most super and sports cars out there. Might as well... seriously. They could get acceleration maps and sound effects from popular cars out there and could even take it a step further and give you the instrument cluster from that car. Of course they would have to probably license the sound and IC, but it could be done. It could basically be a racing game in a real car. I'd select a Jaguar XJ220 and experience the turbo lag then sudden ridiculous uncontrollable acceleration.... lots of fun options.
I think in practice this vehicle is competing against things like the X3 m40i. Frankly, the performance matches that of the Macan EV, but folks looking for the Porsche nameplate will not buy a Hyundai.
That's where the Genesis gv60 magma comes in
I hope they'll make an Ioniq 6 N based on the RN22e.
I see this car as an upgrade for Nissan GTR R35 owners. Hense why Jason C loves it so much. /s
In your face, Jason Camissa! You used to disparage people who wanted a manual EV. It's insane that such a seasoned car person could be so wrong.
But can you make it sound like an late model ICE I-4 Camry in the parking lot? Those things don't make any noise.
I hope randy gets to track test this versus other SUVs.
I would love to see a track battle between Hyundai and Tesla m3p
(...) is the ultimate force feedback implementation (?
I don't believe in "nobody will take it to the tracks" - I drive NA Subaru wagon and that thing visits track semi-regularly.
Agree on the i30N. Should’ve come to the US.
While I applaud the engineering behind the simulation because it seems well done, I genuinely don’t understand engineering a sound that isn’t there or making an electric motor sound like a combustion car, or like something out of a sci-fi movie (Mercedes/BMW.) I think we will look back on this era of electric car sounds and laugh. Electric motors can sound piercing and exciting, why not amplify that instead? I remember seeing onboard footage of a a Tesla Roadster doing a hillclimb and the motor sound was every prevalent and very exciting.
Yes yes, Hyundai has 3 i30N's in VT2 class and 3 Elantra N's in TCR class at this year Nurburgring 24h
It's a hard choice between the new 5N and the new Tesla 3 performance.
Question: how many sessions would you get out of an electric car at a trackday? Obviously you don't have to worry about the weight of the fuel, so you would start with a completely full charge. But how long will it last?
I've never done a car trackday, so I honestly don't know what it's like, but I know my bike doesn't like having a full tank of gas at the track, especially in chicanes and other transitions.
As for SUVs or crossovers at the track, presumably the electric will have a lower center of gravity due to battery placement, but physics is an unrelenting bitch... My Rav4 has many fine qualities, like light duty towing hauling my bike to the track. But precision handling is not found anywhere on that list.
I hope they put this drivetrain into an i30 or i20 then Ill really be interested
Edit: TLDR, Cammisa if you read this, please hold EVs and ICE cars to the same standard for most aspects of the vehicle, such as handling. Please scrutinize legacy car makers where they need scrutiny, just because they're making an EV doesn't mean it's the new generation of car.
Lastly, EVERYONE knows an EV will almost always put accelerate an ICE car especially for the price; we don't care. We want our ICE cars
I am a big fan of Cammisa and how he reviews cars and has a general no BS approach
But lately I don't know how I feel about how he reviews cars. I feel like he lets EVs slide by with many issues without really criticizing them. Here he mentioned that Hyundai let reviewers test the car out with a half baked EPAS system, whereas in other videos he's spent half the video complaining about EPAS in gas vehicles "ruining a car" and "the worst new technology to hinder a car".
I love your work Cammisa, and I love your personality along with DTS's personality and work, both of you guys are phenomenal, however DTS doesn't let little flaws slide like Cammisa is now. I guess the biggest example of that would be the Rimac Nevara where Jason was drooling over it the whole time with little criticism, however DTS was mentioning how it was one of the most phenomenal experiences he ever had but this and this was weird, this acted strange but overall great experience.
I just wish Jason would hold these big manufacturers liable for making a good product, not just worried about UX but reliability, engine feel and chassis feel. I've seen Jason shit on BMW f body having terrible EPAS but then in this video Hyundai, who is not a small new upcoming manufacturer, gets a somewhat pass for letting JOURNALISTS drive a half baked EPAS system. Whether or not they can update it over the air, they should NEVER let a journalist test it and not have an embargo before it's say 90% done. Especially for something like handling
he is slipping more and more into the "all new cars are great" narrative, which is the one that works on youtube the best. Just look at his reviews from 2 years ago and you will see a different side of him and on his views. Unfortunately, it seems that this is what youtube does, in time, to great automotive journalists. I do hope he will find a way to get out of this superstar crowd pleaser form, that he currently has!
@@eugenux that's exactly what I was thinking. It wasn't too many episodes ago where he was flaming new BMWs for having abysmal EPAS and now he's saying Hyundai has decent steering, and not to knock on it right now because it's pre-production and they can update it before sale or even after sale.
Imagine saying that about an E39, or an older Honda or something. "Oh yeah, the throttle doesn't work below 50%, but by the time of release it will be fixed, and journalists only care about full throttle power anyways"
People would go BEZERK.
Jason definitely has a soft spot for EVs, he downplays it all the time. He will always say during a podcast "I judge a car for a car and don't put down EVs just because they're different" and then treats them like they're better, or let's them get away with poor production because they're different. We need journalists to hold ALL cars to high standards. New manufacturers get some lee-way, but safety, stability and reliability need to come first. After that, any little issues are just manufacturing issues that can get improved over time
And when will people, even journalists realize, being a car enthusiast isn't all about going fast as fast as possible? Imagine if drag racing was only determined by how fast you can put your pedal to the floor. Even with auto and power glide drag racing there's skill involved in how you use the transbrake, boost threshold, boost by gear, torque converter locking vs unlocked, shift timing etc. even drag racing an automatic isn't just a put your foot down and win situation.
Just because something can go fast with minimal effort doesn't make it fun, it loses it's luster quick. Small EV SUV racing is NOT fun. I don't care if it takes corners well, an ICE car that is a sedan can beat it with ⅔ the power, and will last longer won't need a charge etc.
If the future of being a car enthusiast is seeing who can put their foot for the floor fastest in their electric SUVs, we're in a sad sad sad time.
It's funny because European and American car sales have plummeted. Even with tax cuts nobody is buying them. Anyone who has wanted one, has bought one. I hope everyone realizes soon that accelerating quick isn't fun after a while. It will wear off quick. Apexing corners never gets boring
@@jacobwebb8818 "apexing corners never gets boring".. amen to that.
as for Jason, in all honesty, he looks and talks like he is being paid to promote EVs..even if he isn't, it is just sad to have a lotus, a kei car, several 325is and a dino gt4(among others)and praise to heaven overpowered electric SUVs as being the best thing since sliced bread; or maybe, because he has all those cars, he simply aims to be the crowd pleaser, EV promoter & etc, for the long term benefit those actions can bring to the(his) table.
my problem with him, theses days, is that some fackery can be felt with each and every show..., while the inspiration he used to portray and project towards the audience, just two years ago is nowhere to be seen.
If you think about it a little, I guess both go hand in hand and, despite his trying, he is not that of a good actor to not show it on camera.
edit. if he is the driving enthusiast he says he is, he should praise to the moon and back all the manual lotuses, M cars and toyotas that the car industry allows you to still buy; instead, he hypes old cars, similar to his(to increase their value) and promotes electric SUVs as the best next thing...which isn't even remotely true.
Well, damn, Cammisa’s stream of consciousness here is literary car-guy genius.
Hyundai engineers just machine-learned DCT behavior and electric cars will never be the same.
I am extraordinarily excited for what 6N Will bring to the table.
I think the 5N is just a bit too big for me.
I own a cvt wrx and it’s the saddest excuse of a transmission I’ve ever used. The wrx is no sports car but that cvt is an insult to the tiny amount of sporty-ness it has. It’s soulless and completely unengaging and if you defend the cvt you’re wrong.
Why did you buy one then lmao
@@2AMinLosAngeles long story but I now regret it lmao
CVT's are theoretically good for fuel mileage, of course, no CVT nowadays doesn't simulate gear changes, which throws away some of the potential efficiency gain anyway
Just going to say as a Subaru Wrx owner we also find the cvt people very annoying. They’re usually found with heart shaped grab handles, fake sti wings and any other of the worst mods you can think of and an endless supply of excuses on why they didn’t get the stick
I would assume the target demographic is young-to-middle-age men who really want a CTR, GR Corolla, or even some sort of BMW M product, but also want to electric but don't want to go with the crowd and get a Tesla Model 3/Y Performance that looks like every other Tesla on the road.
I don't think anybody who shops for a CTR or a GR would even consider an EV. They offer completely different value props. Light(-ish)weight manual with modest power vs the opposite.
However, I could see a BMW M shopper (in particular, one who doesn't care about the badge) taking a look at a Hyundai EV.
I would have the Ioniq 5 N, but I would not use the fake sounds/shifting much. EV's have their own unique sound on their own. The smooth acceleration of direct drive is one of the many reasons I love driving EV's.
I agree, love the constant acceleration of EV's. The fake shifting and noises are nifty, and funny, but not why I would get one.
I don’t mind being lied to, I just want the lie to be convincing. I like EVs in the same way I like a good superhero movie. Of course it’s all fake, that’s not the point. It’s entertaining and that’s what I’m chasing. Entertainment. Entertainment takes many forms. This is merely one of them.
Ioniq N is to End Game what some shitty EV is to some shitty superhero movie. Say, Fisker Ocean and Madam Web.
I'm interested in possibly getting an Ioniq 5 since I barely drive 7,000 miles a year and my car is parked in the garage a lot. However, I live in a warm part of California so I really want air-cooled, ventilated seats and they are only available on the Limited trim. I also would prefer the AWD since it has the power I'd want. But that makes the car pretty expensive and the AWD reduces the range quite a bit. The N seems fun but that means an even more expensive car with even less range. And I don't really need a sportified EV SUV. There's not much point to one.
Ioniq 5 N has ventilated seats.
@@ruturaj47 Thanks but I know that.
@@ethinos2719 you said only available on limited and you are commenting on N video, so assumed you meant N doesn't have it.
@@ruturaj47Only available in the regular Ioniq 5 trims. I know the N is a fully loaded package. The problem is that I'm locked into the highest trim of the regular Ioniq 5 just because I want the ventilated seats. Going up to the N gives me more power that I don't really need, some boy racer looks that are questionable at best, and even less range in an EV that I consider to be on the shorter side of that to begin with.
It dampens and steering dampening is correct. So is attenuation, its just dry speech. Steering moistening is right out.
That gear simulation is what Subaru does with the CVT is in a poor way.
also I’ve heard Toyota talking about making a manual transmission electric vehicle and that’s kind of what they could do. Toyota could pause the throttle and adjust the throttle to kind of climbing up in gear if you put it in fifth and floor it versus if you had it in the first.
I’ve even heard you can stall those things it’s kind of cool.
Pretty sure Toyota already put a proper manual in an EV AE86.
-this is hypothetical not real world based thought.
I think putting a manual/auto transmission on an electric motor would be good for range as well. The motor would stay low in its rpms much more often and would be using much less power at highway speeds.
Tbh I'm just waiting for that crazy manual/automatic transmission that Koenigsegg showed off in the CC850 to trickle down to other cars
"Not M" 😂
5:50 😱
gimmicks are good when they work. N is a cool take on a performance brand, and they dont over use it like the germans. Usually if it has N on it, its something good.
The I30N you wanted can be found in the Kona N.
no, it cannot.
I commute in my Tesla Y performance, when I want sound and feel and driving excitement I take my GT4. Sorry but I don’t want fake sound and shift points in my EV. I actually like the quiet and the super smooth acceleration of the Tesla. It’s the perfect commuter/ daily, and that’s all, it’s not going to replace my performance car.
The Ioniq 5 is just way way too big. The car is handsome but needs to be the size of a golf, not a massive suv thing
How much do you want to bet the Mk9 golf will be the same size as the Ioniq 5 😂
SUV's are not allowed at track days, thats why we don't see any of the "performance" versions at the track.
Curious if this Ionic 5 N will be banned too.
Im so ready to buy the ultimate electric daily
4:45 it sounds nearly exactly like the Hyundai N 2025 hydrogen car from Gran Turismo
It is a car for the video game generation, while satisfying driving enthusiasts. I like the idea of being able to use a vehicle like a simulation platform, receiving new modes to refresh the vehicle as it ages.
The ride comfort, from what I hear so far, is what puts me off. I would not have it as a track car.
"If you bought an automatic performance car, you missed the point"
"buy electric instead"
.. let's suppose it was a regular car for a second. A sub 70,000$ awd 640hp freight train that also weighs way too much and has a gimmick problem and a sport feeling problem. No way! Cammissa discovered how to love a Nissan GTR! Stick an ESG badge on it.
300km range is not enough for me to road trip, 5,000lbs is way too much for me to autocross/circuit race it... What the hell is it good for?
Also the "who'll buy it" problem because the same person who drives i20Ns here with their dick on fire I'm not sure would look towards the electric variant.
Macan buyers? They'd not be tempted, it's too garish. X3M? Maybe but they're lunatics anyway
I am curious. Maybe this undercutting the Urus is the GT-R part of the equation but again... ehh
Maybe this is the first kinda smutty EV but I think smut should be approachable. I think you lost the i20N/i30N/Veloster N buyer with that.
@@Petrospect When you have to list out some of the most niche and low-braincell "sports" derivative products as potential alternatives to customers, there's a ginormous problem!
Then the cars you want are almost gone everything is expensive fat heavy gts with a boring but competent engine node I'm sure the same complaints were said when hothatches became 3,000+ lbs
@@TwoDollarGararge yeah absolutely. And they're gone not because of the buyers, but because of CARB+safety standards. Sad but true. Should be abolished.
I think electric is the right answer for a lot of people - if I had a daily cross-town commute it would be hard to argue against an EV or at least a plug in hybrid. It's definitely not the right answer for everyone; I live in a sparsely populated part of America. If I want to drive to the nearest "Big" city every EV on the market would struggle to make it on one charge and basically need to stop and charge up once I get there, so I need to factor that into my day. An overwhelming majority of the people near where I live park their cars or trucks outdoors between the house and the barn, nobody's running a 60 foot long 7.5kW charging cable through the mud and across gravel.
You don't understand who buys sporty compact SUV's? The man who goes on entire tirades over modern headlights, doesn't understand why everyone would want to be on "stilts"?
first of all, 640 hp isn't just sporty; 2ndly, I am yet to understand why would anyone buy an/any SUV..and I drove quite a lot of models..and I always end up getting out of one, scratching my head, asking myself why on earth would anyone want such a dynamically compromised vehicle?!(to offer perspective, the fastest one I drove was a gl63amg)
Once I realized Jason saying "umm", I couldn't finish the interview. It's all I could hear, lol.
How do you explain that Porsche only makes their highest performance cars in automatic??? GT3 RS, GT4 RS, etc.
Because it’s actually a performance car, and it’s a PDK or torque converter not a CVT… Those cars aren’t about enjoyment, they’re about speed… Jason’s argument (at least my understanding of it) is that the people claiming the Subaru WRX with a CVT (without a disability) is a justifiable product as either a performance or an enthusiast car- those people are full of shit, because if you actually cared about performance you’d get an EV, and if you actually cared about the driving experience like a proper driving enthusiast you wouldn’t buy a car that is the most isolated version of a car, with an automatic transmission when there’s a manual available…
@@griffins5655no one is required to be an enthusiast any one way thats stupid as hell. Y’all care too much about people being okay with one thing or the other. If any person that never experienced a car listened to y’alls type of sentiment they’d believe all modern cars were awful, which is a lie. Your preferences aren’t law
because those are not an automatic.. PDK is a whole different ball game and much better than an auto.
@@newtypena Even though you're factually correct (a PDK is very similar mechanically to a manual transmission), Cammisa lumped all automatic sportscars together as missing the point with his take last episode. He moved away from that a bit this episode, because CVT WRXs are a much easier target.
@@griffins5655 If you listed to last week's show, they specifically called out people that buy 911 Turbos with automatics. Which is why I posted this question here.
I like the 5N but, it's soo god damn expensive for s "sports car" i can get a mustang for soooo much less
Then get a mustang EV and be happy with a shitty EV. 😂
mustang gonna get gapped if its stock lol idk evs are good if u not really into modding cars
@@DriverJ-Nyou don't understand how EVs work; an EV might out accelerate a big power V8 from a stop but, I can assure you, start the race at 60-80, and the EV SUV will loose it out big time. They get very fast out of oomph at higher speeds; also, wait until you arrive at a series of tight corners on a mountain pass or on a good driving backroad. Mass can't be cheated.
The first one was bought here in SoCal before you drove it at Laguna Seca.
Jason's moving the goalposts on his arguments.
Last ep was that all automatic sportscars suck, whether it's a WRX CVT or a Porsche PDK, they all suck. Now, it's that WRX CVTs get clowned on in accel by an EV?
I'd love to debate this with him, because there's so much more to enthusiast driving than actuating a clutch. I'd argue that FWD sportscars miss the point more than automatic sportscars, and good DCTs (like PDK) can be more engaging than modern compromised (by long gearing and/or heavy dual-mass flywheels) manuals.
My point is people have different tastes, and Cammisa shouldn't be gatekeeping when he himself has controversial interests (FWD cars). All this does is embolden the manual-only gatekeeper d-bags.
I mean non manuals do suck, from a subjective standpoint… From an objective standpoint Porsches at least preform better with the autos than with the manuals in instrumented testing, and for their non-full fledged performance models of enthusiast cars Porsche still offers a manual option for it’s consumers in lue of a pdk… Subarus don’t have that excuse, if your looking for better performance around that price range there exist cars that can surpass the Subaru, so the argument that it’s for performance falls on its face, and if you trying to argue that it’s an enthusiast car then why the fuck are you picking a cvt instead of a manual (unless it’s for commute reasons or injuries etc etc etc, things that Jason has acknowledged at points but isn’t going to take the time to rehash every single time just for you no offense)…
Btw go back and watch 99% of Jason’s Porsche takes, he normally isn’t that hard on them because they’re automatic is very well executed, I think he was more talking in general about specs of cars (like a PDK-911 Turbo Cabriolet- ie the most uninvolved, least entertaining version of a car that’s supposed to be fun) last week, as in why if your going to buy a sports car, would you buy the least sporty version of it? Why not buy a Panamera or a Macan where it’s still compromised from an enthusiast point of view but it can at least make up for it in terms of utility…
I might be wrong but I think Jason just dislikes the way a lot of people can be so disingenuous about their reasons for purchasing a car (I definitely dislike it)… Like fr, if your looking for fun you don’t need to necessarily spend $200,000 on a 911 Cab, the truth is you bought it because you like the brand, you like how it looks, you wanted a convertible and the driving experience isn’t necessarily as much of a factor as your making it out to be, but come on, just be honest with yourself about why you want it, you’ll end up happier if you are… All of that to say it’s not about gate-keeping it’s about being honest about who you are, not making yourself out to be something or someone you aren’t (granted that’s no excuse for people to be douche bags about it but it does somewhat explain manual drivers’ mindsets.😊
No offense but you sound like a vehicle enthusiast and not a driving enthusiast.
@@spuds3986 Oh, you absolutely intend offense, and don't worry, offense was definitely taken.
I am through and through driving-focused first; I'm just able to see the forest from the trees. I've stated my case, though, so I'd like to hear your take.
Please explain to me how a modern manual transmission with a big rev-hangy flywheel and a second gear that redlines in the upper 70s is an engaging driving experience. When the manual experience on the street boils down to clutching out from a stop, shifting 1-2, then clutching back in at the next stop, I'm failing to see the argument for "rowing your own."
Edit: Dude, I just watched the driving video you uploaded to YT a couple years back, and...let's just say you really shouldn't be calling out people for not being driving enthusiasts. No offense.
@@griffins5655 Full disclosure, I haven't touched a CVT WRX. I can't speak to its performance or lack thereof, and I genuinely dislike WRXs in general...but it's not fair for me to shit on people who find joy in that type of driving.
As for the PDK-side of things, I disagree with your view of Jason's take. the exact quote was"If you're driving an automatic performance car, you've missed the purpose." DTS gave him an out from ripping all automatics by bringing up "some of them are good" and referencing PDK, but Jason doubled-down.
As a driver of said PDK (a 981 Boxster S that I competitively autocross), I took umbrage with his take. I test drove about 7 different cars (PDK/manual, Boxster/Cayman, S non-S, Sport chrono/no Sport chrono, etc...) before landing on the one I bought, and all throughout my decision was 100% based on driving experience...not sheer performance, but the experience of driving it. I cut my teeth driving manual Miatas, and I can assure you that I can pedal a manual better than most of the people I'm arguing with about this. In a manual, I can heel-toe, double-clutch into a non-synchronized first gear, and left-foot brake at full aggression; I'd guess about 1% of the "nothing but a manual" crowd are actually capable of doing that...I can do all those techniques, because I've spent the time practicing my driver skills since the mid-2000s.
So imagine getting called out by people like @spuds3986, who, judging by the driving video they uploaded to YT (no offense), should be attending a novice day I'd be instructing at. And why? Because I find Porsche's DCT to be a better, more engaging transmission (for the 981) than their manual. So yeah, it's gatekeeping, and Jason's comments embolden gatekeepers who haven't invested a fraction of the time or energy that I have to become a better driver. If someone is starting out their enthusiast driving adventure, and finds a Subaru CVT for whatever reason is what makes them happy, why is it that manual enthusiasts feel a need to deride them?
And look, I'm not calling you out specifically griffins; your reply came with positive energy. All I'm saying is think for a second before you call others to task because their driving enjoyment is different from yours. I mentioned FWD cars in my original post, because for me, that ruins my driving experience (and I know Jason is a staunch defender of it), but more power to Jason or anyone for that matter if that's the style of driving they enjoy. Hell, Super Touring BTCC is probably the most-fun racing series to watch, and it's mostly FWD cars.
@@MegaNardman you say about yourself that you are a driving enthusiast, yet you talk about the annoyance of driving an actual sports car in traffic, within the city; I have news flash for you: @spuds3986 was right all along. Vehicle enthusiast does not equal driving enthusiast. 😉
I don't have any personal investment in what specific technology makes a car go down the road, combustion or electrons or magical gnome flatulence. But I am extremely bored with the one-trick-pony EV drag strip comparison. Yes, they accelerate fast from a stop. We know this. Got anything else? No? Oh. Well wake me when there's more than one dimension to an EV.
Go visit a local autocross where Model 3s are getting their own class because they keep lying down FTDs and pissing off the SCCA Corvette guys.
The Model 3 guys will give you a ride.
@@EUC-lid I've driven one, it weighs 4000+ pounds and feels like it.
@@shoveI So does an //M3. It’s 2024. Performance cars aren’t light anymore.
perhaps that's why I keep my 30 year old dinosaur on the road. when i steer it feels like plucking a guitar string, not working a bow on a cello.
@@shoveIso your issue isn't with EVs, it's with modern cars? Maybe get your story straight.
Answer to who is going to buy one. I have just got my 5N, I sold a Tesla model 3 performance for the 5N. I don’t see it as an SUV I think they call it that to try to appeal to a bigger market. I was looking to get a Taycan GTS and see this as the direct competitor to the 5N. The Porsche is to expensive in comparison, especially considering how much range it has. The main reason for buying in the UK is tax especially if the car is bought by a company
Congratulations and I hope you enjoy the heck out of it!
with the exception of the fact that it is an SUV, being the size of an X3 on dropped springs.
as for the way you purchased it, tipical sell-out...I'm a driver but can get it tax free so the eff with the driving ethos and spirit. Good for you my little bloke, enjoy your understeery pig on wheels.
@@eugenux strange response, I’ll take you points on board
Back in the day, I had a brand new 1985 Hyundai Pony. That was a total POS car, it felt like it had about 20 HP and I had a sticker on the back saying "I can't go any faster or I'll burn out my Squirrel" :) The ONLY good thing was that the parts were CHEAP. But for the last few years, I have been pretty impressed with the maturation of the company to the point where I would actually consider buying one, so it's cool to see that they are doing really well with their EV's.
BTW, I think that Jason is a closet smoker, a very cool & civilized man..
But Derek is an annoying, miserable and self-important type, not someone I would care to meet IRL.
If I was interested in an electric car, this would be the one for me today. But I'm not 😂
I agree that a proper sports car should be manual. A CVT has no place in "performance".
Tell that to Ferrari and Alfa-Romeo, then.
what does the N stand for?
Nerformance
Norsepower
Norque…
'Naughty'
Per Wikipedia: "Namyang, which is a district in South Korea. It's the birthplace of the N brand and where you'll find Hyundai's Global R&D Center. It also stands for the infamous Nürburgring racetrack in Germany."
100% agree, Jason. If you want a fast-accelerating car to rag on, no car is as fast as the one you don't care about. In that case, buy the cheapest, quickest electric appliance you can find and rip on it. But if you like driving, and if you want to care about a car and build a skill, daily-drive a stick shift. Stick is the correct option for cheap, gas performance cars that are worth keeping beyond the end of the warranty.
No one is looking at a 35K WRX and thinking “but is it the fastest possible option?” Some people probably just want an automatic so they can have an automatic when they feel like it. That doesn’t mean they want to trade everything else they like about a more engaging vehicle
@@air-headedaviator1805 so make the WRX with an automated manual with paddles
Is Hyundai one of those companies that sells your driving data to insurance providers?
Automatic WRX Buyers: You want to daily a cheapish performance car that'll function as your all rounder 1 car solution. You have to commute mostly in the city and thus don't want to deal with a manual in traffic everyday. You're an actual car enthusiast that want a nice engine sound with and old school mechanical feel. Why's that so hard for Jason to understand?
The equal length header FA engine doesn’t make any nice sounds.
The WRX was a performance car in 2002 when it had the power-to-weight of a contemporary Fox-body Mustang but more grip. Unfortunately it has only gotten slower since.
CVTs are not reliable, make their own terrible sounds, sap power, and feel horrible.
Jason drives a ton of new cars and understands what’s on the market. WRX fanbois don’t cross shop anything, they just buy something because they think it makes them look cool and think “but what about when it snows” is an argument to end all arguments, while they refuse to buy winter tires for their WRX because “I have AWD!”
Signed, a recovered WRX owner.
It's specifically the CVT. If it was a ZF8 OR DCT there'd be a quarter of the hate
@@papa_ptso still a low IQ issue
You obviously don’t understand if you actually like CVTs?
@@EUC-lid Well I have a manual STI, Stage 2. I assumed cvt WRX buyers wanted part of that experience but for lifestyle reasons had to compromise a bit.
I understand the cvt isn’t the best, but I still think it’s unfair for Jason to say automatic performance car buyers are missing the point, it may just be that they wanted a fun car but a manual doesn’t fit their lifestyle as good as an auto.
Listening to fake electric experience @ 11:32 and I'd be able to justify an electric Hyundai purchase if they could simulate a manual 6 speed with a one pedal mode. Why not if they're almost there just throw a 'stick' and extra pedal in. Let's go full sim
its gonna happen just not on their 1st electric N car
Full on arcade mode. I'm here for it.
N definitely stands for Nurburgring
Idk what the deal is against automatics in sport cars; who actually cares as long as its a way you want to engage the vehicle in. All the rules are made up and these are all street cars that at best will part time at the track. Besides, half the time I hear Jason praise automatic cars as performance vehicles just as much (the Raptor R comes to mind)
You said the word "engage" and "who cares" in the same sentence. There is less engagement while operating an automatic simply because the "engagement" is happening automatically, without your involvement. There is no way to stall or miss a shift. No way to shock the drive line. All because of electronic nannies that keep holding your hand.
You bring up track days. However manuals are not about the racing. I granny shift 90% the time and would not have it any other way. I have sports cars, bikes, yet love chugging along in a manual Exterra, like is a tractor. Not racing, not sliding, not winning, even attempting. Just engaging.
@@VasyaIvanovichPupkinit is strange to think about how driving enthusiast cannot understand why the manual is the right choice in a driver's car...and yet..they are so many who simply cannot. it saddens me deeply.
@@VasyaIvanovichPupkin you’re just cherry picking words out f what I said to say the same stupid ass thing about there being a “right” way to enjoy cars. Again I say, thats stupid as hell, and its a problem y’all can’t see the difference between preference and a requirement.
@@eugenux there is no right choice, only whats wanted and whats not. If there was a “right” choice being a car enthusiast would be boring and repetitive. Its a problem that y’all using your fandom of a stick shift to determine the validity of a person’s enjoyment. Stupid as hell
@ 8:15 Imagine having to bring your car in for warranty work because the fake shifting noise doesn't work wright. :{