All of that being optional is the real game changer here. Play if you like or don't, whatever you like to do today. Feels like freedom compared to other cars.
I kind of want to mod my EV to make the sounds of different horse gaits depending on speed, up to full gallop at ~40km/h. It is old enough that I have a button to disable the stock sound. Figure I can detect that and play the hoofbeats instead.
That's what I'm thinking, it's like a super-car simulator. it would be very cool if you could pick the type of cars you want to emulate... Different engine sounds, turbo sounds, upgrades maybe?
My brother-in-law works for Hyundai. Core of the engineers for this project are around my age or younger. That means we grew up playing video games and Grand Tourismo. Electric cars allow from programming to simulate what we grew up playing...but in a real car...on the road, not inside a screen. I've been saying it since this was available in my market since last year. While other car manufacturers brag about augmented reality for their navigation system (my company car the Genesis GV80 has a real nice fluid augmented reality navigation system BTW) Hyundai built a video game that you actually drive on the road. *The sound from the Evolution mode is directly from an experimental car from Hyundai that exists in the Gran Turismo game. So again, the game reference.
I work at a Hyundai dealer/garage. We just got one of these in white in. Charged it overnight and took it out and my god I never thought I’d love an EV so much. They really put A LOT of enthusiast type features in mind. The fact alone the shifts are so hard and fast slamming you with torque each gear. The engine sound is a little computerized but I’m sure down the line there will be updates. It has a “supersonic” sound mode that gives you a warp drive type buildup and to my surprise a loud explosion boom in each shift. Was cruising at 45 in 3rd switched to supersonic sound wound out 3rd going to 4th around 70-80mph on a back road and then hear this BANG. My heart dropped thinking I broke something haha. The things a blast to drive. Handles wayy better than you’d think. Definitely feels heavy but can put it where you want. Just a shame they’re going for over $70,000..
i kinda hope they work with Agnes The Great and license his Engine simulator and have a few different engines simulations to choose from. (personally id never have it leave a w16 engine.)
What's not really clear to me is, they put a lot of effort in the sounds and the feel of the drive, but does it ACTUALLY have gears, or does it just behave as if it has gears ? Thanks in advance.
@@garbizwal obviously 😂. Don’t think anyone is trying to pass it off as real. I think the point is more that we can appreciate the effort to please folks who love the real thing with a very well done fake😂
@@garbizwalIt is fake. That stated, Jason C. At Hagerty indicated that it is close enough to use for tracking or hard driving because it is tied to the performance of the car. Driving to WalMart or work? Turn it off.
It shuts down the electric motor and plays the sound of metal crunching and falling out of an engine while simultaneously lighting a smoke bomb under the hood 😂
I thoroughly hated this car, right until you mentioned "All these settings are available to the driver", and it really put things into perspective. I love customizing my car, and thinking how locked-out modern cars are pisses me off. So I like this car now. Thanks, Jason!
Yeah, that's the big thing. If I can turn off that nonsense and have an effective, fun car anyways, I'm all for adding neat stuff like they put into this car. It's like Tesla with the toy box. You never have to open that app, but it's all there if you want it!
@@Kev27RS I was happy to see one of the sound effects mode is essentially a "enhanced electric car sound" - I would enjoy bopping around a track with a car that sounds like it came from the jetsons more than some fake inline 6 or something like that.
@@offshack They need to let you upload your own sound sample to the car (have it automatically adjust the pitch like a synthesizer). Jetsons boop boop sound, Batmobile sound, Rolls Royce RB211 engine sound, tie fighter scream sound, let your imagination go wild.
Never seen this guy this excited and smiling like this for the entire video. He looked like he was 13 years old and getting to drive for the first time.
This might just be the greatest EV ever made. Everything that we've been screaming for EVs has been done and done well. Not just things like gears, but a greater flexibility of driving modes, more entertainment features, things that ice cars have had forever. Excited to see the change this car will effect over the industry
But its not. It’s literally taking away the benefits of an EV and all while being a fake ICE so its the worst of both. If you’re an enthusiast, just get an ICE if you like ICE or an EV if you like EV
The N-division of hyundai is truly lifting the whole company to a whole new level. For me the N division is just right up there with amg and M-performance.. of course keeping in mind that N is fiddling around with EV’s whereas the other two are still playing with ice
@@JohnLee-db9zt That's correct. The three core principles of the N-brand are 1. Corner Rascal 2. Every-Day Race Car 3. Race Track Capability They don't list it as tantamount, but the head of the department recently said that they didn't love the release of the N Vision 74 as a limited production car as the N brand is about making every day race cars that regular people can afford, something that isn't going to be possible with a 800 RWD-only, two door, 100 cars *only* concept production. Based on their other cars in the US and global markets, they continue dominating the value category
M is not what it used to be nor will it ever be again. Why? Because Albert left and went to Hyundai. Oh and hes never coming back. LOL. He is one of the people who helped design the Godly E92 M3. And after that, he left. Then the F series came out, yikes… And bmw lost all its character. The driving feel. Everything. Their cars even sound horrible now too! So glad i bought my N when i did. That man is a God send!
@@rlseditionIt’s easy to give an EV ICE attributes, it’s impossible to simulate an EV with an ICE car. Having both of two worlds and having a high customizable car is fun.
Custom sound maps that could be uploaded by whoever and a community page to be able to upload and download them, along with maybe a tool for creating them would be SICK
It would be cool, though since we are dealing with a real vehicle that could end up with real injury or death, mods like those would have to be more rigorously certified. Since the fake sound and shift change are tied to providing a reference (or a cue) for driver to react, a poorly made sound mod (or even made with malicious intent) could end up causing accidents.
There's this guy, Ange the Great (on YT), who's made an Engine (sound) Simulator. As in, it doesn't just fake engine sounds by remixing prerecorded sounds or the like - it actually makes a physical simulation of the chamber burns, exhaust system acoustics, all that good stuff. It allows you to simulate most kinds of conventional ICEs you could come up with - wanna have it sound like a two-stroke lawnmower one moment, and a purring V-12 the next? All possible, and it sounds _good!_ Check out his channel. *edit:* forgot to mention, yes, you can make your own engine designs that it simulates 😉
It gives me the feeling that one of the engineers wanted to have his video game car in reality. The Koreans are really doing some cool stuff here! Its like a real life video game car. The phrase "you're always a kid, only the toys get bigger" really applies here! That's what I love about it. The retro sound of a car game from 25 years ago really gives it that vibe.
Why dont build a good car from the box that doesnt need any bs-customization? This shtbox will never be as good as a real tracktool or "sport"-car.... its not possible to build a allaround car... you have to choose what kind of car you want to build.
@@CockatooDude No, it's more so as someone who deals with the technical details of a system (especially so me, and I'm an industrial automation engineer, so I have a lot of experience with industrial HMI UI design), I like the fact it's dynamic and gives many options for desired operating modes.
@@-_James_- Maybe if it's something home built, but I've never had a speed or refinement issue for Android devices. Samsung seems to have done their due diligence in that department. Depends on who you are, but I'm able to get technical, so I like having the ability to have many customization options, so I think it's pretty neat from that standpoint.
Yeah, this would be a fun commuting appliance. I will always daily an EV of some kind, but my trackday toy will always be h shift ICE and RWD. Different tools for different jobs and all.
My Performance MY has track mode. You can put 100% power to the rear tires and disable traction control. It can rip donuts better than any car I have ever driven.
I purchased one of these a couple months ago. Absolute blast to drive it, and daily it. I'm still trying to work all the modes out 😅😅 It's expensive, but totally worth it.
@@kenyaswallow5782 Easily get 222 miles. You can get 300 miles per full charge, and if you were super smart with your breaking egen you could push 350 miles. That being said, if you wanted to that kind of miles regularly, i would recommend something else. Just for conveniance sake.
I hate all the "fake sounds" that the EVs produce, they sound so fake. This is actually well done and not tried to sound more than it needs to. And simulating gears might be a silly gimmick but it’s definitely just something to have fun with here and there. Well done Hyundai, absolutely killing it again with EVs.
So you still hate this right? Cause BeamNG sounds better lmao They HAVE the facilities to record an actual engine sound, even better, lemme choose I4, I6, V6, V8 etc. This sounds like ass
It's really hard to capture the in car sounds on the mic he's using, it's designed for speech. Hyundai have obviously put a lot of thought into how the sounds reverberate and travel in the car, fake crackle and pop from the rear to simulate exhaust noises is cool. This is the direction more manufacturers should go in, waaaay too many boring EVs. It's just a shame this car is a mini SUV type car (also ugly AF) I want this system in a hot hatch or sports wagon.
It's fascinating to see how passionate everyone is about combining the nostalgia of classic gaming and the excitement of modern car tech! It's like we're living in a crossover episode where our favorite old-school games meet cutting-edge automotive engineering.
Excellent video, and probably one of the only channels willing to provide an unbiased review of the technical aspects of these different modes... as opposed to just pointing out every discrepancy and deficiency in the simulations provided by each of the N-mode options and levels. Much appreciated.
so we spent years perfecting dcts and other fancy gearboxes to reduce the feeling of gears shifting, fancy sequential turbo systems etc just to invent a technology that makes all that obsolete and now we emulate the very shortcomings that we tried to engineer around with ices
To be honest I'm one of the many that absolutely hate the simulated gearshifts and engine sounds, just like I hated Subaru's simulated shift points in their CVT: it's useless and reduces performance; I think an electric car's only sound should be the coil whine and it should be a single gear. With that said, I'm glad this exists and some people will definitely enjoy it
@@om617yota7 In the video Jason shows that it's all customizable. All of the features he covers can be fully turned off in the car's menus, so this actually looks like a pretty good car
As much as I've loudly criticized trying to make an EV behave like a gas car, this looks really fun! All the customization would have appealed to me immensely when I was younger. I would definitely put the cards back in my spokes and drive this car for fun. Great review!
The funny thing is, all EV’s have to behave like a gas car. If they put all the power to the pedal like an on off switch it would be impossible to drive. The problem is they’ve all been tuned like a CVT gas car. Even the Tesla Plaid has a little bit of a rubber band kind of feel off the line (except for launch mode obviously). I feel like this is a much better way to program the acceleration peddle.
@@richardbixler That's not "behaving like a gas car", that's just making sure you don't destroy your tires and your drive train with the brutal instant torque. I can assure you driving a Tesla feels nothing like driving ICE. More like a rollercoaster you can control.
_...and it's got REAL BUTTONS on the steering wheel, not silly capacitive pads that will het activated by mistake a hundred times! Clean styling too. I love it!_
I'm sold. This is going to be the first electric car I buy, no question. I haven't been this excited about a "Toy" car since I turbo'd my '92 miata back in 2016. I was smiling and cheering throughout the video before N Grin Boost was even mentioned, lol. Absolutely LOVE the proportional "Gear ratio/RPM" torque delivery implementation. Major props to Hyundai for trying to turn the EV into something that can truly act like a modern car enthusiast's joy machine.
As an old school car enthusiast. this is the first full BEV I'd actually consider owning. Yes, it's basically a bunch of sensory tricks, but I love the fact that the driver has this much control over the car's behavior. In addition to having utterly insane performance, you also get a very practical vehicle with plenty of room for passengers and gear. Overall, great job Hyundai, and excellent review EE. But....what's the price...
Why would they not make the rev limiter go past 6,000? It makes no sense. Some cars actually can rev to 9,000. And this thing's actually going to 21,000. Why not utilize some of that? also like a Formula One car. I mean, it's really amazing.
@MrGamman3yt it's not actually limited. It's not resetting how many RPM's the motor actually sees. It's increasing rpms still after every "shift". It would need a traditional transmission/clutch to do what you are thinking it's doing.
Most of it is not control, just making you do unnecessary work to overcome artificial weaknesses. The rest has already been done by Tesla's Track Mode years ago. That part is cool, but they are not the first. Oh, and you can get a Model 3 Performance with Track Mode for like $50K.
Nthusiast here 👋 Here we are 5ish years after watching an Engineering Explained video with a super cool dude driving a Veloster N around the Nurburgring. Been a happy N owner for a few years and still love every moment, every shift. While I am not ready to get into an EV, I certainly appreciate the love and attention to customization details the N Performance division has given to us.
I had a feeling that someone would eventually build a manual transmission emulator for an electric car, but I though it would be hacked together by an enthusiast. Props to Hyundai for not only building novelty features, but legitimately useful track features, and for nailing the execution.
In the past, we laughed at fake exhausts and "engine" sounds from the dashboard on some cars. But it seems that what we used to laugh at and consider as kitsch and embarrassing gadgets will be our future. I have mixed feelings about it.
While I'm not a big fan of electric cars, i gotta say, it's really cool to see how Hyundai had progressed over the years. I remember very well, when i got my driver's license, Hyundai had Pony and Accent as their cars on the road. One is awful, the other is cute, but not much else. To see Hyundai now offer really well made cars just makes me feel happy for them. I still feel sad they killed off their gas powered N series.
@chrismd00 I had a Hyundai sonata back in the 90s and it was absolute rubbish. I agree with OP that Hyundai has made progress over the years, but that first bad experience has written them off as an option for me.
@dougm7744 it's basically a completey different company that it was in the 90s. Their cars have great build quality and features and they are affordable. Hyundai is a great car manufacturer
Same thing with Kia I remember seeing a Kia K900 for the first time walking home from a bar in college and I couldn't believe my eyes. They have been selling premium cars in Korea for a while but I'm glad they have brought some competition to north America
I used to be a Honda-guy but I bought a '24 Hyundai Santa Cruz and have no regrets. I'm pretty sure my next vehicle will be a Hyundai EV... this Ioniq 5 N looks amazing!
I'm glad they did something like this.... I feel like this feature that makes the "engine" seem like a combustion engine is addressing a big reason that got a lot of drivers who didn't want to switch over to an electric car had. Now if only we could have "conversion kits" here in the US... which would allow conversion of a combustion to an electric powerdrive
as someone who loves EV's that cannot stand any of the artificial noise made to date this seems really cool to me. Much better and I think it would be cool to play with and I think it could be made even better for future.
Well, you can turn it off, but OTOH, I also probably wouldn't pay the extra premium for the N, but rather go for the EV6 GT, if I need the extra punch without the fake gear box sim.
For a short 17 mins video, you have made an explendid job explaining all the special features this new fun e-car have. Well done and thank you for the video!
I'm glad they're making performance EVs; it will at least help with the transition for enthusiasts. It will never be the same as an ICE car, but at least they can make them more engaging as you say.
@@user-sk1eh3pg6j Im not a fan of EVs, I love my ICE and will stay away from EVs as long as I can. But a ICE does need more fuel for more power too. If you need more range you can just, drive slower, you know. A daily driver EV only needs to get you through one day. The average range of 300miles, even if cut in half, is more than enough for most people to do that, after that you can just charge it overnight. The range only gets problematic for long trips or racedays where 1 charge isn't enough.
@@user-sk1eh3pg6j did you read my comment? EV have more than enough range for daily driving. The same things that increase mpg on a ICE increase range on a EV(unless you speak about modifying the car), on a EV its even less of a issue to over accelerate because you get range back from deceleration on a ICE you cant do that.
Jason - I'm no engineer, but I'm pretty sure there is a specific design function of your helmet strap @4:20. Granted, in an accident the helmet isn't likely to fly off, but it's more likely if you don't have the chin strap on.
Lol, we're getting in and out of the cars, back on track, back off, in/out etc, all a bit rushed! I have some clips with it strapped, others without. Oof - doing my best! 😂
Now, if they just gave a crap about the purchase and service experiences. They have the worst dealer network and terrible serviceability. I always felt like I needed a shower after spending any time talking to their sales people.
Ok, I'm glad this exists if it will get more people to buy EVs. But for me fake ICE noise is the dumbest thing ever. The best thing about my EV is the quiet acceleration. I love that I can accelerate up a steep hill, with no noise and no straining engine. I can't imagine voluntarily adding the noise back.
Wow. Hyundai missed out on the opportunity of a lifetime not allowing the consumer to experience a 21,000 RPM tachometer. They should really think about allowing the revs to simulate the RPM of the electric motor and then allow customization of your favorite motorcycle or Ferrari or Lamborghini sound effects…or just the sound of bubbles. [2:03]
your content is really transformative, thank you so much for all the great videos explaining the stuff, that's behind closed doors for the normal population generally
I think the cost is the main issue with this car, EVs already carry such a premium price wise that adding the performance premium puts this at a price that eclipses most Mercedes-Benz and BMW vehicles, which is too much for a Hyundai.
I can see how fake sound cues can help you on track to get more consistency. I like the fact they included thermal management redesign to it. It is not just algorithms and fake sounds on old Ioniq 5
Wife recently bought a 5 Limited, but just for the heck of it the GM took me out on his N. Wow! Sounded and handled like my son’s WrX. Definitely a blast but not exactly a daily driver for the grandpa I am.
I drive a Veloster N, and it's funny how much this car looks different but also how much is the same. You can see that it was made by the same people. If I can make an electric car in this price range work for my next car, I'll consider this.
Finally, this is what I always envisioned would be possible with an EV. About time someone made it fun. Take a hint from the world of guitar amp modeling and create modes complete with the sound, handling and performance of that car. Ferrari mode, STI Mode, old Musclecar mode, Cadillac mode, economy car mode, etc... If they can do a good job of simulating different engine sounds in video games, they can certainly do it in your car.
I love the nerdy little details you put in your videos about the how and the why. Different from other reviewers who just talk about how the car is fast and fun (mostly superficial). Keep up the great work.
Really brings back that PS2 Gran Turismo Vibe when I was a kid playing at Mazda Raceway. No heck, feels like Real Racing you can play on the App Store. The sound they make here is uncanny. Sounds like a typical V8 sound they try to replicate back in the day without recording the exhaust too.
I'm very torn on this. The lack of a gear shift has been the biggest impedance to me getting an EV, but also I don't like fake stuff like fake engine noises and false hood scoops. On the other hand, this is really cool!
I think this is actually innovative. Consider that one of the big complaints about fast EVs are that they're souless and have no character. It sounds like Hyundai listened and solved an issue people were complaining about.
@@MrArcticPOWER a 2018 model 3 is now a 5 year old car, with less space, and less straight line performance, not to mention the mediocre behavior at the limit. This is a new car with a 10 year warranty and enough space to move house. I don't think anyone will cross shop these.
@@justinbecker4772 Just wanted to say it should be a 6 year old car. But the Tesla 3 Performance is only good in a straight line, it’s not that great in corners. The 5N looks like it handles corners really welll
Even though I'm not shopping for a new car, I found myself watching so many videos about this car, because I find it fascinating. It's like Hyundai N division found this perfect blend of mechanical and software to make one of the coolest EVs on the road today. If this thing was the size of an i30, like half a ton lighter, it could be the first EV hot hatch.
All of that being optional is the real game changer here. Play if you like or don't, whatever you like to do today. Feels like freedom compared to other cars.
I kind of want to mod my EV to make the sounds of different horse gaits depending on speed, up to full gallop at ~40km/h.
It is old enough that I have a button to disable the stock sound. Figure I can detect that and play the hoofbeats instead.
This is really important. Just leaving my mark here.
I wonder how long it will take people to realize that all the torque, all the time is just better
The catch to that is you're still pay for it all, whether you use it or not.
@@GintaPPE1000 Then you just buy regular Ionic 5
They need to build a special version for the fast and furious movies, with 16 “gears”
They dont even need to build anything. Just an update lol
Don’t forget the update for double clutchin, like you should. And don’t let me hear you granny shifting.
and with eaton road ranger shifting knob
🤣🤣🤣
I want a Fast n Furious version with a blower belt sticking through the hood. Oh, and a really tall shifter and a clutch pedal.
It's a real life video game car. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
frl. its awesome
That's what I'm thinking, it's like a super-car simulator. it would be very cool if you could pick the type of cars you want to emulate... Different engine sounds, turbo sounds, upgrades maybe?
@@coreyclarke6929yeah, cool turbo sounds would be awesome. You could like pick exactly what blow-off sound you want, number of cylinders, etc.
@@coreyclarke6929 i really hope they don't make 'upgrades' pay to play like the ppl over at gameloft/asphalt 8/9
@@mentals555 I'd like yo know what a big ol' 5.9 hopped up Cummins sounds and feels like in there
My brother-in-law works for Hyundai.
Core of the engineers for this project are around my age or younger.
That means we grew up playing video games and Grand Tourismo.
Electric cars allow from programming to simulate what we grew up playing...but in a real car...on the road, not inside a screen.
I've been saying it since this was available in my market since last year.
While other car manufacturers brag about augmented reality for their navigation system (my company car the Genesis GV80 has a real nice fluid augmented reality navigation system BTW) Hyundai built a video game that you actually drive on the road.
*The sound from the Evolution mode is directly from an experimental car from Hyundai that exists in the Gran Turismo game. So again, the game reference.
I work at a Hyundai dealer/garage. We just got one of these in white in. Charged it overnight and took it out and my god I never thought I’d love an EV so much. They really put A LOT of enthusiast type features in mind. The fact alone the shifts are so hard and fast slamming you with torque each gear. The engine sound is a little computerized but I’m sure down the line there will be updates. It has a “supersonic” sound mode that gives you a warp drive type buildup and to my surprise a loud explosion boom in each shift. Was cruising at 45 in 3rd switched to supersonic sound wound out 3rd going to 4th around 70-80mph on a back road and then hear this BANG. My heart dropped thinking I broke something haha. The things a blast to drive. Handles wayy better than you’d think. Definitely feels heavy but can put it where you want. Just a shame they’re going for over $70,000..
Yeah the price really is the problem. I wouldn't pay more than $30k for this
i kinda hope they work with Agnes The Great and license his Engine simulator and have a few different engines simulations to choose from. (personally id never have it leave a w16 engine.)
What's not really clear to me is, they put a lot of effort in the sounds and the feel of the drive, but does it ACTUALLY have gears, or does it just behave as if it has gears ? Thanks in advance.
If you're in LA or the LA area, I'd like to be your friend. I'd really love to drive this thing.
@@LizardHunter777 Go find a brand new 640hp track day car for 30k... lemme know what you find
More like N-gineering Explained amirite?
yuarite
❤
Get out!
Slapping an N infront of everything? This car truly is n-gineering
now you can buy $65,000 EV which drive like $20,000 car, but you have to charge it.
and its HYUNDI😂E.
That rev limiter sounds like playing a NFS game from 25 years ago.
I know, I love it too!
Put those songs in your playlist and youre good to go
It really does! Either that or an electric organ playing a chord
Bingo !!
Good thing that is super easy to change with an update
This feels like the best gaming setup you could ever have. It can even go to the supermarket!
😂
I want to run American Truck Simulator in this car!
Lol I’ll have to talk my wife into this instead of a PlayStation 🤣🤣
As a stick shift ICE guy who can’t help the smile on his face watching and hearing all the sounds from the car, I think they got something right.
It looks fun at least.
But its all fake
@@garbizwal obviously 😂. Don’t think anyone is trying to pass it off as real. I think the point is more that we can appreciate the effort to please folks who love the real thing with a very well done fake😂
@@garbizwalthat's the point
@@garbizwalIt is fake. That stated, Jason C. At Hagerty indicated that it is close enough to use for tracking or hard driving because it is tied to the performance of the car. Driving to WalMart or work? Turn it off.
So Impressed by Hyundai in the past 10 years! It feels like they are leading the pack right now for PHEV and EV vehicles in features and quality.
Does it blow a fuse if you money shift it?
Danger to N-manifold!!!
@@zmarko😂
It shuts down the electric motor and plays the sound of metal crunching and falling out of an engine while simultaneously lighting a smoke bomb under the hood 😂
Yes, for full immersion
Car dies and a credit card reader pops up on the dash, it's $1k to start it back up after an 'engine replacement' loot box 👍
Needs a sound mode with a kid saying, "vroom vroom."
That's exactly what it is.
Only available on the Mazda MX-30 EV :D
There will be a "vroom vroom" user mod 😆 This is more like a real life video game than a car.
That would be the most realistic
I want Jetsons sound dammit!
I thoroughly hated this car, right until you mentioned "All these settings are available to the driver", and it really put things into perspective. I love customizing my car, and thinking how locked-out modern cars are pisses me off. So I like this car now. Thanks, Jason!
Yeah, that's the big thing. If I can turn off that nonsense and have an effective, fun car anyways, I'm all for adding neat stuff like they put into this car. It's like Tesla with the toy box. You never have to open that app, but it's all there if you want it!
@@bvoyelrYes, you can turn off all those fake - artificial sounds and simply drive the car without sound, like an electric car actually is! 👍
@@Kev27RS I was happy to see one of the sound effects mode is essentially a "enhanced electric car sound" - I would enjoy bopping around a track with a car that sounds like it came from the jetsons more than some fake inline 6 or something like that.
@@offshack I agree!
At least you know it’s not trying to be something it will never be.
@@offshack They need to let you upload your own sound sample to the car (have it automatically adjust the pitch like a synthesizer). Jetsons boop boop sound, Batmobile sound, Rolls Royce RB211 engine sound, tie fighter scream sound, let your imagination go wild.
Rarely do you see people as excited as this throughout a whole video. This alone makes me want to drive this car.
And Jason has driven some really fabulous cars. This car just hits different, you can tell.
Never seen this guy this excited and smiling like this for the entire video. He looked like he was 13 years old and getting to drive for the first time.
The moment you bring your electric car to the garage because you suspect it to have an exhaust leak...
Wait till they create a sound effect of an exhaust leak and then charge you to fix it.
@@ZylkaLeftridge combustion engine role play season pass
I'll need to subscribe to the feature that turns the exhaust leak off
@@ZylkaLeftridgelmao that’s big big brain. My head is gonna explode from this.
This might just be the greatest EV ever made. Everything that we've been screaming for EVs has been done and done well. Not just things like gears, but a greater flexibility of driving modes, more entertainment features, things that ice cars have had forever. Excited to see the change this car will effect over the industry
except for the price
@seasidescott ayyy nothings cheap now a days. But you're right
Never seen an EV review where the the driver is smiling so much. Great review, love the car.
Love it, hate it or anything in between, you have to commend Hyundai for trying to make EVs better for us enthusiasts
Absolutely! Bold engineering with the guts to implement it..
But its not. It’s literally taking away the benefits of an EV and all while being a fake ICE so its the worst of both.
If you’re an enthusiast, just get an ICE if you like ICE or an EV if you like EV
@@JonnyD3athyou can just turn all the random bs off then. don't use it if you don't want to. easy
@@JonnyD3ath Exactly what I was thinking.
lol, enthusiasts don't buy 60K EV's.
The N-division of hyundai is truly lifting the whole company to a whole new level. For me the N division is just right up there with amg and M-performance.. of course keeping in mind that N is fiddling around with EV’s whereas the other two are still playing with ice
Imo N division is more about fun than absolute performance that M and AMG are trying to achieve and at a lot lower price.
@@JohnLee-db9zt That's correct. The three core principles of the N-brand are 1. Corner Rascal 2. Every-Day Race Car 3. Race Track Capability
They don't list it as tantamount, but the head of the department recently said that they didn't love the release of the N Vision 74 as a limited production car as the N brand is about making every day race cars that regular people can afford, something that isn't going to be possible with a 800 RWD-only, two door, 100 cars *only* concept production. Based on their other cars in the US and global markets, they continue dominating the value category
@@Miatalustrium The N Vision 74 should be released as a Genesis then
M is not what it used to be nor will it ever be again. Why? Because Albert left and went to Hyundai. Oh and hes never coming back. LOL. He is one of the people who helped design the Godly E92 M3. And after that, he left. Then the F series came out, yikes… And bmw lost all its character. The driving feel. Everything. Their cars even sound horrible now too! So glad i bought my N when i did. That man is a God send!
What does the N stand for ?
who would have guessed that Hyundai of all brands would be the ones actually innovating and evolving the eletric sports car
Why not just buy an ICE car if ICE attributes are what you want?
@@rlseditionIt’s easy to give an EV ICE attributes, it’s impossible to simulate an EV with an ICE car. Having both of two worlds and having a high customizable car is fun.
@@mikedelicus Impossible to simulate an EV with an ICE car? EVs are computers on wheels. Duh!
@@mikedelicus Who wants to simulate an EV with an ICE car?
I bet it's a POS, and the batteries will kick it just after the warranty ends.😅
Custom sound maps that could be uploaded by whoever and a community page to be able to upload and download them, along with maybe a tool for creating them would be SICK
I want the stage coach sound mod. (Dad noooooo)
imagine fart
It would be cool, though since we are dealing with a real vehicle that could end up with real injury or death, mods like those would have to be more rigorously certified. Since the fake sound and shift change are tied to providing a reference (or a cue) for driver to react, a poorly made sound mod (or even made with malicious intent) could end up causing accidents.
There's this guy, Ange the Great (on YT), who's made an Engine (sound) Simulator. As in, it doesn't just fake engine sounds by remixing prerecorded sounds or the like - it actually makes a physical simulation of the chamber burns, exhaust system acoustics, all that good stuff. It allows you to simulate most kinds of conventional ICEs you could come up with - wanna have it sound like a two-stroke lawnmower one moment, and a purring V-12 the next? All possible, and it sounds _good!_
Check out his channel.
*edit:* forgot to mention, yes, you can make your own engine designs that it simulates 😉
It gives me the feeling that one of the engineers wanted to have his video game car in reality. The Koreans are really doing some cool stuff here! Its like a real life video game car. The phrase "you're always a kid, only the toys get bigger" really applies here! That's what I love about it. The retro sound of a car game from 25 years ago really gives it that vibe.
As an engineer, I love the amount of customization. It's kind of like the Android of EVs.
So if you weren't an engineer, you wouldn't like the customization?
Why dont build a good car from the box that doesnt need any bs-customization? This shtbox will never be as good as a real tracktool or "sport"-car.... its not possible to build a allaround car... you have to choose what kind of car you want to build.
Android is slow and clunky. I'm not sure that's the best comparison.
@@CockatooDude No, it's more so as someone who deals with the technical details of a system (especially so me, and I'm an industrial automation engineer, so I have a lot of experience with industrial HMI UI design), I like the fact it's dynamic and gives many options for desired operating modes.
@@-_James_- Maybe if it's something home built, but I've never had a speed or refinement issue for Android devices. Samsung seems to have done their due diligence in that department.
Depends on who you are, but I'm able to get technical, so I like having the ability to have many customization options, so I think it's pretty neat from that standpoint.
That's the level of customization every car should have. I love my EV, but I miss doing donuts in a snowy parking lot with my RWD 5-speed.
I can do donoughts in the snow in my RWD i3 with traction control turned off but it doesn't make cool engine sounds!
@@MichaelSersen nice, my LEAF is only FWD. I've been able to do the backwards donuts a little bit, but it doesn't work as well as a RWD.
Yeah, this would be a fun commuting appliance. I will always daily an EV of some kind, but my trackday toy will always be h shift ICE and RWD. Different tools for different jobs and all.
My Performance MY has track mode. You can put 100% power to the rear tires and disable traction control. It can rip donuts better than any car I have ever driven.
I purchased one of these a couple months ago. Absolute blast to drive it, and daily it. I'm still trying to work all the modes out 😅😅
It's expensive, but totally worth it.
is there eco mode where you can get more range than 222 miles?
@@kenyaswallow5782 Easily get 222 miles. You can get 300 miles per full charge, and if you were super smart with your breaking
egen you could push 350 miles. That being said, if you wanted to that kind of miles regularly, i would recommend something else. Just for conveniance sake.
I think this is the first electric car that I've found myself saying "wow, that's super cool, I really want one!"
This actually drastically changed my perspective of Hyundai. Well done 👏
I hate all the "fake sounds" that the EVs produce, they sound so fake. This is actually well done and not tried to sound more than it needs to. And simulating gears might be a silly gimmick but it’s definitely just something to have fun with here and there.
Well done Hyundai, absolutely killing it again with EVs.
Your first sentence said it all.
So you still hate this right?
Cause BeamNG sounds better lmao
They HAVE the facilities to record an actual engine sound, even better, lemme choose I4, I6, V6, V8 etc.
This sounds like ass
It's really hard to capture the in car sounds on the mic he's using, it's designed for speech. Hyundai have obviously put a lot of thought into how the sounds reverberate and travel in the car, fake crackle and pop from the rear to simulate exhaust noises is cool.
This is the direction more manufacturers should go in, waaaay too many boring EVs. It's just a shame this car is a mini SUV type car (also ugly AF)
I want this system in a hot hatch or sports wagon.
The fake sounds do have a purpose though. It makes these cars safer around pedestrians.
You don't buy a car to have fun with here and there though
It's fascinating to see how passionate everyone is about combining the nostalgia of classic gaming and the excitement of modern car tech! It's like we're living in a crossover episode where our favorite old-school games meet cutting-edge automotive engineering.
Excellent video, and probably one of the only channels willing to provide an unbiased review of the technical aspects of these different modes... as opposed to just pointing out every discrepancy and deficiency in the simulations provided by each of the N-mode options and levels. Much appreciated.
so we spent years perfecting dcts and other fancy gearboxes to reduce the feeling of gears shifting, fancy sequential turbo systems etc just to invent a technology that makes all that obsolete and now we emulate the very shortcomings that we tried to engineer around with ices
To be honest I'm one of the many that absolutely hate the simulated gearshifts and engine sounds, just like I hated Subaru's simulated shift points in their CVT: it's useless and reduces performance; I think an electric car's only sound should be the coil whine and it should be a single gear. With that said, I'm glad this exists and some people will definitely enjoy it
100% agree. Only way I'd consider this vehicle is if all of that can be turned off and it can be a straight EV with no simulated nonsense.
@@om617yota7 In the video Jason shows that it's all customizable. All of the features he covers can be fully turned off in the car's menus, so this actually looks like a pretty good car
@@LamantinoElettronico Great, glad to hear it.
Agree 100%. I hate it but if it gets someone into an EV then fine, go for it!
As much as I've loudly criticized trying to make an EV behave like a gas car, this looks really fun!
All the customization would have appealed to me immensely when I was younger.
I would definitely put the cards back in my spokes and drive this car for fun.
Great review!
The funny thing is, all EV’s have to behave like a gas car. If they put all the power to the pedal like an on off switch it would be impossible to drive. The problem is they’ve all been tuned like a CVT gas car. Even the Tesla Plaid has a little bit of a rubber band kind of feel off the line (except for launch mode obviously). I feel like this is a much better way to program the acceleration peddle.
Those "younger" video game folks who are attracted to this car most likely won't have the $68k it takes to buy it.
@@richardbixler
That's not "behaving like a gas car", that's just making sure you don't destroy your tires and your drive train with the brutal instant torque. I can assure you driving a Tesla feels nothing like driving ICE. More like a rollercoaster you can control.
_...and it's got REAL BUTTONS on the steering wheel, not silly capacitive pads that will het activated by mistake a hundred times! Clean styling too. I love it!_
When you plug in the charger, does it spray your hand with a little bit of eau-de-gas?
I'm sold. This is going to be the first electric car I buy, no question. I haven't been this excited about a "Toy" car since I turbo'd my '92 miata back in 2016. I was smiling and cheering throughout the video before N Grin Boost was even mentioned, lol. Absolutely LOVE the proportional "Gear ratio/RPM" torque delivery implementation. Major props to Hyundai for trying to turn the EV into something that can truly act like a modern car enthusiast's joy machine.
This car looks like a ton of fun. This is the first EV car I’ve remotely been keen on. I wish they would pair it with a more retro futuristic style.
Hyundai could sell engine sounds like ringtones.
I want mine to be Star Wars themed.
Seriously...I need it to sound like a Tie Fighter.
@@ragweedmakesmesneeze just call disney, they will probably would get some money for that
@ Hyundai and Disney already did a collaboration together with the Disney edition Ioniq. So it shouldn’t be too hard.
Car engine sounds as a monthly subscription…
Most cars have embedded 5G modems anyway, be easy to implement.
@@elroy-kq7we definitely agree with that.
"i love the letter N!"
".... Ohhh that letter N..."
The good n-word
💀
🤣🤣🤣
N - nice
Neighbour
As an old school car enthusiast. this is the first full BEV I'd actually consider owning. Yes, it's basically a bunch of sensory tricks, but I love the fact that the driver has this much control over the car's behavior. In addition to having utterly insane performance, you also get a very practical vehicle with plenty of room for passengers and gear. Overall, great job Hyundai, and excellent review EE. But....what's the price...
Why would they not make the rev limiter go past 6,000? It makes no sense. Some cars actually can rev to 9,000. And this thing's actually going to 21,000. Why not utilize some of that? also like a Formula One car. I mean, it's really amazing.
@@MrGamman3yt i guess to be realistic to their own previous N cars and not an F1 nor a mazda rx-7 rotary, etc.
@MrGamman3yt it's not actually limited. It's not resetting how many RPM's the motor actually sees. It's increasing rpms still after every "shift". It would need a traditional transmission/clutch to do what you are thinking it's doing.
Most of it is not control, just making you do unnecessary work to overcome artificial weaknesses.
The rest has already been done by Tesla's Track Mode years ago. That part is cool, but they are not the first.
Oh, and you can get a Model 3 Performance with Track Mode for like $50K.
@@MrGamman3yt The programming is meant to mimic their own N cars, not F1 race cars.
Nthusiast here 👋 Here we are 5ish years after watching an Engineering Explained video with a super cool dude driving a Veloster N around the Nurburgring. Been a happy N owner for a few years and still love every moment, every shift. While I am not ready to get into an EV, I certainly appreciate the love and attention to customization details the N Performance division has given to us.
I had a feeling that someone would eventually build a manual transmission emulator for an electric car, but I though it would be hacked together by an enthusiast. Props to Hyundai for not only building novelty features, but legitimately useful track features, and for nailing the execution.
pretty amazing how much they seem to have gotten right the very first go at it
In the past, we laughed at fake exhausts and "engine" sounds from the dashboard on some cars. But it seems that what we used to laugh at and consider as kitsch and embarrassing gadgets will be our future. I have mixed feelings about it.
I remember catching the original RoboCop in the theater. The audience reaction when the Ford Taurus had the v8 sound - ha!
Shhhh! Don't tell the king he's naked!
While I'm not a big fan of electric cars, i gotta say, it's really cool to see how Hyundai had progressed over the years. I remember very well, when i got my driver's license, Hyundai had Pony and Accent as their cars on the road. One is awful, the other is cute, but not much else. To see Hyundai now offer really well made cars just makes me feel happy for them. I still feel sad they killed off their gas powered N series.
Not a fan? Must have never driven one
@chrismd00 I had a Hyundai sonata back in the 90s and it was absolute rubbish. I agree with OP that Hyundai has made progress over the years, but that first bad experience has written them off as an option for me.
@dougm7744 it's basically a completey different company that it was in the 90s. Their cars have great build quality and features and they are affordable. Hyundai is a great car manufacturer
Same thing with Kia
I remember seeing a Kia K900 for the first time walking home from a bar in college and I couldn't believe my eyes.
They have been selling premium cars in Korea for a while but I'm glad they have brought some competition to north America
@@chrismd00I’ve literally owned one and went back to ICE because it was boring 😂. This looks promising though.
I used to be a Honda-guy but I bought a '24 Hyundai Santa Cruz and have no regrets. I'm pretty sure my next vehicle will be a Hyundai EV... this Ioniq 5 N looks amazing!
I'm glad they did something like this.... I feel like this feature that makes the "engine" seem like a combustion engine is addressing a big reason that got a lot of drivers who didn't want to switch over to an electric car had.
Now if only we could have "conversion kits" here in the US... which would allow conversion of a combustion to an electric powerdrive
I wished it have a simulated H-gate shifter and a clutch pedal. and why limit to 7000+ rpm? Get that to 10,000! and Ferrari V12 exhaust note
That'll be sell separately
Artificially stretching the sound of a 4-cylinder that only revs to 7,000 RPM to 10,000 RPM would sound strange.
Toyota is doing something like this.
@@aspecreviewsSo make it actually rev to 10k lol
@@mjay6245 it's ab electric engine, it goes to 20k but the noise is like an electric drill and not an real ICE engine
as someone who loves EV's that cannot stand any of the artificial noise made to date this seems really cool to me. Much better and I think it would be cool to play with and I think it could be made even better for future.
Well, you can turn it off, but OTOH, I also probably wouldn't pay the extra premium for the N, but rather go for the EV6 GT, if I need the extra punch without the fake gear box sim.
Die hard manual driver here. This car is really cool and I don’t care what anyone says.
Bells and whistles that still doesn't change the fact that it's an over priced EV that has no true value. I choose to drive something worth while.
For a short 17 mins video, you have made an explendid job explaining all the special features this new fun e-car have.
Well done and thank you for the video!
Happy to hear it, thanks for watching!
I'm glad they're making performance EVs; it will at least help with the transition for enthusiasts. It will never be the same as an ICE car, but at least they can make them more engaging as you say.
@@user-sk1eh3pg6j Im not a fan of EVs, I love my ICE and will stay away from EVs as long as I can. But a ICE does need more fuel for more power too. If you need more range you can just, drive slower, you know.
A daily driver EV only needs to get you through one day. The average range of 300miles, even if cut in half, is more than enough for most people to do that, after that you can just charge it overnight. The range only gets problematic for long trips or racedays where 1 charge isn't enough.
@@user-sk1eh3pg6j did you read my comment? EV have more than enough range for daily driving. The same things that increase mpg on a ICE increase range on a EV(unless you speak about modifying the car), on a EV its even less of a issue to over accelerate because you get range back from deceleration on a ICE you cant do that.
@@user-to7ds6sc3p this has to be the most rational and calm petrol head comment regarding EV ranges I've seen on the internet, thank you.
Jason - I'm no engineer, but I'm pretty sure there is a specific design function of your helmet strap @4:20. Granted, in an accident the helmet isn't likely to fly off, but it's more likely if you don't have the chin strap on.
Lol, we're getting in and out of the cars, back on track, back off, in/out etc, all a bit rushed! I have some clips with it strapped, others without. Oof - doing my best! 😂
@@EngineeringExplained Excellent review. Just razzing a bit.
Boy! Have KIAs/Hyundais improved their quality and reliability!!!
I've never seen someone driving one of these without smiling
Does the simulated transmission simuate an engine stall if you try to drive in to high a gear? 😂 that would be pretty funny
DCT/automatic will automatically shift down, if your gear is too high.
No but it does let you slam into the redline, and it artificially reduces torque for each gear so it actually feels like an ICE.
In the Hargerty video they said that it will simulate lugging, so you do get some "punishment" for being in the wrong gear.
12:10
“N Grin Boost” sounds like the move of an Anime character.
enu gurinu buuusto
It's great that Hyundai recognises the joy of driving 💙
Now, if they just gave a crap about the purchase and service experiences. They have the worst dealer network and terrible serviceability. I always felt like I needed a shower after spending any time talking to their sales people.
@@michaellowe3665 oh no I'm sorry to hear what you've experienced! I've been fortunate enough to have had mainly positive experiences, phew!
@@claudiadavies5110 it's a widely reported issue.
Ok, I'm glad this exists if it will get more people to buy EVs.
But for me fake ICE noise is the dumbest thing ever. The best thing about my EV is the quiet acceleration. I love that I can accelerate up a steep hill, with no noise and no straining engine. I can't imagine voluntarily adding the noise back.
Turn it off then. The option is there.
@@gigihanmandarinbuying a car that sells fake engine noise exclusively and turning it off is counter productive and illogical.
Interesting, they have all the room they need with 21,000 rpm's so they just pre-set different torque feels (as fake transmission). I love it.
I absolutely love this. An EV shifting like a DCT, why not
Maybe because it is lame and a half?
He said the "N word"
nuremberg 😉
@@ralanham76 Actually it is N as in Namyang Korea I believe but as a Kia/Hyundai fan boy I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
This is like a video game with the car as the controller. I think it makes driving an electric car a lot more fun and engaging.
Wow. Hyundai missed out on the opportunity of a lifetime not allowing the consumer to experience a 21,000 RPM tachometer. They should really think about allowing the revs to simulate the RPM of the electric motor and then allow customization of your favorite motorcycle or Ferrari or Lamborghini sound effects…or just the sound of bubbles. [2:03]
I never thought 10 or so years ago that Hyundai would be right at the front of the pack for fun. Props to N
From my reading, Hyundai and Kia have hired many BMW and Audi engineers and designers.
your content is really transformative, thank you so much for all the great videos explaining the stuff, that's behind closed doors for the normal population generally
So they took an electric motor and artifically hindered it shifting?
Just got an ioniq 6 as a loaner....definitely changed my opinion on electric cars
Anyone who doesn't like the fake transmission doesn't have to use it. I LOVE IT. Now put it in a car with a fake manual and clutch.
I think the cost is the main issue with this car, EVs already carry such a premium price wise that adding the performance premium puts this at a price that eclipses most Mercedes-Benz and BMW vehicles, which is too much for a Hyundai.
Wow! Finally an electric car that seems like fun
And affordable compared to other manufacturers
Can't wait to see the 6 N 🤞
That might be pretty wild.
The RN22e will be already 2 years old this summer and prototypes of the 6N have been spotted, so it's only a matter of time.
That's the one I'll try to get.
These life-sized RC cars are pretty cool
I can see how fake sound cues can help you on track to get more consistency. I like the fact they included thermal management redesign to it. It is not just algorithms and fake sounds on old Ioniq 5
They should create multiple plugins which simulate certain classic sports cars! This thing is suprisingly fun
Someone at Hyundai is a sim racing fan
That would be Mr. Albert Biermann
Like putting the clip clop of horses sound into an ICe car and the manure smell as well.
So is the sound only on the inside or inside and outside the vehicle? I love that somebody actually gets it…
2 external speakers so i guess someone else outside the car will also hear a little bit of it.
The Ioniq 5 is the benchmark for high-performance EVs
Wife recently bought a 5 Limited, but just for the heck of it the GM took me out on his N. Wow! Sounded and handled like my son’s WrX. Definitely a blast but not exactly a daily driver for the grandpa I am.
Impressive to me how much time and quality that Hyundai was willing to put in to increase their value of the brand!
Does the car still not activate the brake lights when regen braking?
It does. In my Model Year 22 Kia EV6 it does it properly, not sure what went wrong in the early IONIQ5s.
Technology Connections is gonna have a fit.
I hope this video boosts N-gagement for you, Jason.
I drive a Veloster N, and it's funny how much this car looks different but also how much is the same. You can see that it was made by the same people. If I can make an electric car in this price range work for my next car, I'll consider this.
Finally, this is what I always envisioned would be possible with an EV. About time someone made it fun. Take a hint from the world of guitar amp modeling and create modes complete with the sound, handling and performance of that car. Ferrari mode, STI Mode, old Musclecar mode, Cadillac mode, economy car mode, etc... If they can do a good job of simulating different engine sounds in video games, they can certainly do it in your car.
I actually forgot you were driving an electric car for a second, ig is does sound realistic enough lol
This is really amazing. The NGB made me grin - and I was just watching!
I love the nerdy little details you put in your videos about the how and the why. Different from other reviewers who just talk about how the car is fast and fun (mostly superficial). Keep up the great work.
Happy to hear it, thanks for watching and thanks for the kind words!
Really brings back that PS2 Gran Turismo Vibe when I was a kid playing at Mazda Raceway. No heck, feels like Real Racing you can play on the App Store. The sound they make here is uncanny. Sounds like a typical V8 sound they try to replicate back in the day without recording the exhaust too.
you were smiling ear to ear almost this entire episode, which is what a performance car is supposed to do- make us enjoy the drive
That level of customization is very appealing to me.
I would love something like that but a two stroke DKW racing car noise. Or Detroit diesel one. hehehe
Cant wait to see how they perform when hyundai starts the ioniq 5n racing series
I'm 30 seconds in and I'm already excited
I'm very torn on this. The lack of a gear shift has been the biggest impedance to me getting an EV, but also I don't like fake stuff like fake engine noises and false hood scoops. On the other hand, this is really cool!
I think this is actually innovative. Consider that one of the big complaints about fast EVs are that they're souless and have no character. It sounds like Hyundai listened and solved an issue people were complaining about.
I hated that CVT transmissions were engineered to act like they had gears, and now EVs are too. Asinine.
The good news for EVs is that it is entirely optional. CVTs not so much.
@JoelKleppinger very true. Plus, they're not engineering maintenance nightmares like the ones put in a nissan
You forgot to mention N Sticker Shock - $66K+.
Given the performance it seems pretty reasonable
@@justinbecker4772 I mean, compared to a 2018 model 3 performance, it doesn't seem that reasonable.
@@MrArcticPOWER a 2018 model 3 is now a 5 year old car, with less space, and less straight line performance, not to mention the mediocre behavior at the limit. This is a new car with a 10 year warranty and enough space to move house. I don't think anyone will cross shop these.
@@justinbecker4772 Just wanted to say it should be a 6 year old car. But the Tesla 3 Performance is only good in a straight line, it’s not that great in corners. The 5N looks like it handles corners really welll
@@justinbecker4772 I said 2018 because that's the year they came out. I'm comparing MSRP of the two, not used vs new prices.
i drive a disel manual and this is the first ev that made me little smile on my face :)
A "disel"?
I drive a 1.6L naturally aspirated gasoline powered inline 4 Nissan Sentra built in 1997.
Even though I'm not shopping for a new car, I found myself watching so many videos about this car, because I find it fascinating. It's like Hyundai N division found this perfect blend of mechanical and software to make one of the coolest EVs on the road today. If this thing was the size of an i30, like half a ton lighter, it could be the first EV hot hatch.
This is how almost all EVs should be, driving an EV with the familiar feel of a conventional vehicle is all we ever wanted!