What if the Right could hope for no more than fleeting electoral victories? What if, in the long run, it was doomed to lose the ideological war? If you are asking yourself “Why are we losing ?” you should read "The Promethean Right: Why the Right is losing the battle of ideas”
nation building in the most literal sense. remember: china made the jump from a primarily agrarian society to and industrial society in 2 generations. in the west industrialization took centuries to reach all area of north america and europe
I think they hang out with too many rich Chinese dudes... I assume the majority of Chinese males are good at fixing stuff because they can't afford to pay someone else to do it. It's only people trying to appear rich that intentionally are useless. You're probably a cool guy. :)
It actually depends. My dad cant do much. I think hes pretty spoil by my grandma haha. but most labor job in china is super cheap so ppl really dont have to do themselves.
@Tuzz I'm American and I do the same. Everything is overpriced here. You could spend your life working and never accomplish anything important because your always paying for basic crap.
Shows how "manliness" is a very fuzzy concept just like "honor". (Although the latter is actually quite straightforward if you see the origin of the word.)
Really strange that these guys mentioned the one child policy but not the HUGE gender imbalance it created. More than a million extra men who by definition will find it impossible to marry and have families. This is the true masculine crisis in China and it's surprising they didn't even touch on it, since I imagine it's having strange effects on the perception of masculinity. Although from what I've heard this affects lower class people more heavily. These guys seemed to focus solely on the rich portion of society, and let's be honest - rich kids are spoiled and coddled everywhere.
That the massive gender imbalance did not find mention in this discussion of the "masculinity crisis" shows how short-sighted and self-centered our commenters are. The reality is, as you say, that Chinese men are facing a female shortage of enormous proportions, and are hard put to find marriageable women.
Michael Meo, They do have a video where they talk about gender imbalance. Watch the video before making judgments. This current video is about China Government propaganda "crisis of masculinity" not about gender imbalance which I also recommend to watch by the way.
They are having an organic dialogue. "siukong 9 months ago Really strange that these guys mentioned the one child policy but not the HUGE gender imbalance it created. "
As an Asian man, the first time I saw this video I was angry. But then I realized that masculinity essence grows through challenge. So I got up, got back to the gym, and started communicating with strangers and asking out random girls for a date (something that Asian men most likely have never done), and I became more confident. The feminized Asian guy can't get a girl but can keep a girl interested, that's why our divorce rate is low, all we have to do is to increase our masculinity. Thx dudes
My own perceptions of masculinity were challenged when I met someone who had served in the SAS. He wasn't feminine but was softly spoken, polite and in no way socially dominant while talking. He was kind of a introvert. In many ways western society expects a man to be socially aggressive and dominant in order to be masculine. He didn't meet those stereo types but by nature of his former position was clearly a badass of the highest order.
Late reply, but that's because people confuse being aggressive with being confident. I've never seen the steriotypical jock as "manly," because a man knows how to control himself. | Simply put, the agressive outgoing guy isn't manly, he's either insecure or doesn't think about things much. Look at the martial artist who knows how to fight but avoids them, they usually fit.
I'm Chinese. I can say for CERTAIN that the ideal Chinese man is not a loser with a beer belly and cig hanging out of his mouth. Men can get away with that in some parts of China. But elsewhere, there are real expectations, you'll have a hard time getting respect from women or men if you don't meet those standards. I'll just mention 3. 1. Have a good job/make lots of money. If you can't hold down a job, no girl's gonna want to marry you and no one is going to introduce a girl to you. The pay and social statuses of your job is very proportionally related to your eligibility. For a woman, having a good/high paying job may make her look pretty cool, but it's also a liability because she usually only wants men who are equally or more successful. And men who make less would find her intimidating. She doesn't have whole lot of choices. 2. Take care of your family, financially. It is the man's job to provide the money. A woman's financial contribution is a personal/family thing. If she works, that's great. But, if mom works but dad's unemployed, NOT OKAY. Real men do not live off his wife or his parents, or anyone else. He should be financially independent and take care of this family (parents, spouse, children minimally). This means that men have greater pressure to get money-making jobs. A woman can be a free lance artist, heck she can be unemployed as far as the society is concerned. But if a man doesn't have a steady income, he's irresponsible, and a failure of a man. 3. Men are supposed to be strong emotionally, socially, but not necessarily physically. They are not supposed to not cry. (Though Chinese men seem to cry a lot more than Americans.) They are supposed to be strong and resilient when facing life problems or conflicts. If they just try to avoid problems, they are not manly. While that kind of strength is appreciated in women, their gender identity doesn't depend on it.
If only they could learn to flap in sync. (But when the right wing hears "in sync", the mental image makes it lose its rhythm. And when the left wing hears "right", it forgets to flap altogether.)
@@Dowlphin in some ways the CCP is making it flapping in sync, but with an absolutist term, and minimal freedom of involvement from general public, but it is what it is for now
@Kenny Lin - In any case: Heart and brain sit BETWEEN the wings. We can learn more from nature than we think. There is so much beautiful poetry. If the USA see themselves as an eagle, a symbol of soaring freedom, then they have to stop declaring each wing an individual. Their extreme individualism-fixation is their downfall. They cannot find balance. ... And then of course we could also point out that the eagle is kind of an apex predator. I think the USA is a lot more inspired by that idea. Interestingly, both Russia's and China's iconic animal is a bear. (The eagle can hardly kill a bear, but the bear can kill an eagle if it is careless and aggressive.) See how much poetry there is?
@ 2:32 I come from Eastern Europe, and that description for manly is same as ours (Gopnik) down to every freaking detail, only thing missing is Adidas tracksuit xD And the Bluetooth earpiece is the latest "upgrade" XD
@@OK-ws7ti Depends where you go. Still, you can't offset 45 years of communism that quickly. Even though the wall fell 30 years ago, some things still haven't changed.
@@OK-ws7ti Eastern Europe reminds me so much of England in the late 80's/early 90's. Alot of their subculture and stuff is influenced by English subculture from decades ago. It's almost like looking into my countries past when I look at some places in Poland or Ukraine etc, you get the same kind of vibe.
gopnik is the opposite of manly, but yes, it perfectly matches the also-not-manly Chinese definition.. but the Chinese have thousands of kilograms of soy products each year to blame for their lack of masculinity, what excuse have slavs?
What a fuck up remark, Chinese man have to put up long hours of work that is unimaginable in Western standards, in the film industry 16 hours per day is standard working hours, overtime is the norm. Family? Some of them just barely surviving
@@tl6969 16 hour days are standard on western farms. During spring and fall work it could get pushed to 20 at times. We still make time for the family. Before we make time for anything else. Long work hours are a lame excuse.
I am making a comparison between film industries. I have little knowledge about the Chinese farming industry, can't commnent on that. Filmmakers travels all around to film for period of months, is not able to be with ones' family an lazy escuse ?
@@tl6969 well ya. The point is it doesn't matter what industry you are in, if there is anything that is taking priority over your family you are doing it wrong. If your job actually is so much work that you can not see them, which it never is, then definitely quit. Like quit today. Money will not be a problem if thats what scares you. Money is easy to get, it is a side effect of hard work.
Thank you for this interesting video! I'm a European with a degree in Chinese language and culture and spent about two years in China and Taiwan. While I'm familiar with all the things you mentioned, my experiences have partly been a bit different: . - I've met loads of Chinese guys who work very hard to impress girls. Like you said, arranged marriages etc. are still seen among rich/powerful/very conservative families, but are not necessarily the norm. - Lots of young guys exercise, also to look good (less weightlifting than in the West though) - The 土豪 with their cigarettes and man purses are seen as tacky by reasonably educated Chinese people. And a big belly on a guy is mostly considered unattractive by Chinese women as well. For some, having a big belly (just like a really long fingernail on the pinky) is just a way to show that they don't have to do physical work which is not seen as prestigious. In many European countries, being a skilled craftsman is quite a respectable profession, while the Chinese seem to strongly prefer being business people when it comes to prestige. - I think the fact that these guys are flaunting cash is attractive in a way because so many girls were raised in way that made money a high priority in a potential male partner. In Western countries that have been relatively wealthy for a while, the view of money is quite different compared to large parts of the Chinese population. As you said, the parents' generation of today's 20-somethings often grew up way poorer than their kids. - When Chinese people talk about 男子漢, that usually does imply a muscular physique. Interestingly, I also noticed and have been told by locals that many of the more muscular guys are in fact gay.
Sexuality in China is actually more interesting than you think, at least historically. One of the things early British travelers couldn't stand about China was the pervasiveness of homosexuality in the imperial courts of China. The "traditional" side of china's sexuality might have been constructed after 1949. Homosexuality is getting more "popular" among the young Chinese. Also, don't forget that one of China's top entertainer today Jin Xing is a trans, and people seems to be okay with that.
You are right on point. China used to be the most gay friendly country in the world. It doesn't have a history of persecuting homosexuals. However, as always, communism fucks everybody up including gays.
Those in the courts were eunuchs to make sure that only the emperor had mating rights. This was an alpha male after all. Much like a wolf pack where only the top male had mating rights. Very biological.
It's not just China, most anti-gay cultured countries tend to have men that appear more "feminine" compared to the west. For example, men in India, China, Pakistan all can be lot more touchy with each other, because they see nothing wrong with it. The thought of it being gay, or having any sexual meaning never crosses their mind. The westerners are very scared of getting called gay or having their sexual orientation assumed wrong, so they label everything as gay or not gay. I also disagree with calling Chinese men not seeing real life. Most of these poor people are seeing real life, even as a child. Many Chinese boys even work as children, instead of playing minecraft all day. In many ways, I would say that's lot more rough than the rich spoiled western culture.
What? Oh sure they dont thought of it being gay , cause they hang the gays, throw them from building etc. but hey they must be way better than the west ofc cause muh patriachy .
+MrEvan1932 >Never implied homosexuality is a choice to begin with. >Says that I did that, even though the left promotes ideals that in turn promote values that have a connection to it, basically rendering what you said pointless. Are you blind? Or do I need to give you examples like how when gay people complain they suddenly have the moral upper advantage over anyone else and get the government to punish whoever criticizes them or their actions/activities?
"When he got to China he thought everyone was gay, and he was like really happy. Then he found out that they're not actally gay, they just... look gay".
I think it's so funny when foreign exchange students from the Middle East and Asia come to America and expect the women here to wait on them. My first bf was Chinese studying in my hometown and told me he was mad that I didn't wait on him or make him a sandwich. Broke up with him the next day. Also, Vivi has always seemed super forward thinking and smart regardless of the "man's society" in China. You married a great woman C-milk!
"Masculinity is not about being the biggest, the fastest, the strongest, the one who sleeps with the most girls, and the one who has the most money. The one who has the most accomplishments is not the most masculine. In fact, it is often the men who covet these things most who are covering and compensating for the greatest insecurities. Let us revere the one who loves others deeply, loves himself deeply, and has a dream that he is inspired to live with and by and through. He is a man. He does not stand unmoved or untouched in the face of truly moving experiences. He does not judge the totality of his life or anyone else’s life by the totals on the scoreboard as the clock ticks down to zero. He does not use money as a proxy for emotional connection nor material possessions as the measure of his self-worth. He does not define his manhood by the number of women he has conquered. He does not always fight fire with fire; sometimes he doesn’t need to fight at all. He does not meet seriousness with silliness when it is seriousness that is required. He does not take risks for risks’ sake, because he does not hide from his frailty, his mortality, or his humanity. He does not pretend to know everything about anything, nor is he afraid to admit when he knows nothing about something. And perhaps most important of all, he does not walk around thinking he’s The Man. No, the masculine man goes through a journey, a process of self-discovery, and figures out what he needs to do to acquire the tools, knowledge, wisdom, grace, love, passion, and joy to pursue his destiny. His destiny is his dreams. Those may evolve over time, but in their pursuit, he is not breaking down anyone else or hurting anyone else. He is not at war with other people, conquering them. He is the one joining forces, searching for the win-win. He is the one who is lifting others up, inspiring others through his journey and his own process (in which he is finding ways to create value along the way). He is the hero of his own journey. And in so being, he is looking for every way to have the best relationships possible with his family, friends, his romantic partner, his colleagues, or his customers. He’s finding ways to be the best possible version of himself. Masculinity is about discovering yourself and owning what you find. It’s about being kind to others, and pursuing your dreams with all the passion and energy you can muster. It’s about doing something that is meaningful to you that brings value to others. That’s how you build a legacy." ― Lewis Howes, The Mask of Masculinity: How Men Can Embrace Vulnerability, Create Strong Relationships, and Live Their Fullest Lives
I'd imagine the Chinese arent primarily as concerned with how the men dress, i'm guessing it's more about the fact that little emperors make for a poor work force
The fact is, if you dress too well, and work at a sweatshop, your colleges will look down at you. But if you are a middle class, well educated,, I will say they dress pretty well compared to western middle-class men. Its the income and education man
From my recent experience over in China, I found that young men don't know how to fix anything. They are accustomed to calling someone to fix things with an unwillingness to figure out how things work or create solutions to make things work. I'm generalizing of course.
That's everywhere, mate, not only in China. I remember repairing radios from the trash when I was 8 years old, and having 220 volts shocks every year, working with electricity. Today's kids only do videogames, kind of sad.
Gary Chung In the future they will do the same things to make some fun . But currently they are busy making money and fixing things that costs too much time and energy is not an economic option.
It is because it's much cheaper to let a professional to fix it since the labor fee is so cheap in China,unlike America. They rather become a master in a specific field than become a jack of all trades,but master in none. Hope you had a great time in China. Are you planning to go back again?
Gary Chung Agree though some old people quite like playing with things. Nowadays it's not gonna get any better because all the young people have to attend school and work for 996(9am-9pm,6 days a week). They won't have time to look into things.
Monday mornings where I live start with your videos. I literally start my week watching you guys over breakfast. Love the way you make your videos and support all your projects. You guys are awesome! Keep up the good work! 🤙
I live in Korea and a good chunk of men are super effeminate. A real man here isn't all that attractive (at least to younger Korean women) because they live in the mindset that all men should be caring like the guys in K-pop and K-dramas. Koreans don't fully mature until they hit their late 30s (or are used to being around westerners). I don't blame China one bit for doing what they're doing. It's hard enough to date in Korea and China but media isn't making it easy for folks.
I live in Korea too, I think you're half right. The Korean girls who like the the super effeminate guys are... girls, or women in their early 20s. You don't need to be effeminate, you can play the exotic card by growing your beard and dressing like a man, as long as you're in good shape, well-groomed and relatively stylish. Not being afraid to be different shows confidence, ALL women (particularly Korean women) LOVE that. Not saying it's you, but a lot of foreigners in Korea who complain that Korean women aren't into "real men" are really saying Korean women aren't into white guys with permanent 3 day stubble, who wear old college football sweaters stupid baseball caps, baggie jeans, have a beer gut and can't speak Korean. Just 2 examples, I was carpooling with 3 Korean guys in their 30s and a Korean women (late 20s). We got a puncture and instead of getting to work, changing the tyre, the 3 guys just stood around on their phones, waiting for help. I changed the tyre in 5min (without any help from the 3 useless sods), the women looked like she basically wanted to jump my bones right there. I saw a Korean couple walking and there was a tiny dog in their path. The dark barked and the guy... ran away, leaving his GF there. She was super pissed at him.
KX5Kat Wholy crap, that is an amazing response. I actually do believe that cause most of society is raised to have someone else do something for them instead of taking the time to learn how to do it. This is why it's crucial to have dads in the house: to teach us stuff like this! What you said earlier about what a woman likes, I managed to experiment a little more and change my methods a bit. They worked!
The men are there eat soy, that is why they are effeminate. Actually, it is just a young inexperienced girl that wants a girl man, as she can relate to that, but it isn't what she really wants usually. Like princesses have a gay knight in shining armour in disney.
Oh my GOD, that is the FIRST thing I thought when I first heard BTS and their latest album. . . . Apparently, you can see a lot about the culture of young men based on which music is the most popular. . . .
I just returned from Beijing and Qingdao, I was shocked they weren’t in general aggressive or intimidating, I felt like having a brake in my tough guy macho Alpha man acting mode; its felt good. No way I can walk that way in any American or Latino Night Club or any Western men environment with out your manhood/? be challenged. Its dosn't mean they are pussies, they aren’t scare about you because bigger or stronger. I guess their masculinity is not based in muscles and testosterone but in other concepts. I didn’t see any wrong on them.
I also enjoy this in Asian countries. It feels so relaxing and safe. Like another planet. I have no idea why we, Caucasian men, are so uptight all the time.
Yall westerners feel the need for outward-style masculinity, real men are ok with being seen as unmanly. You dont need to boast all the time. Loosen up man
I think chinese (or asian) guys dressing like k-pop "flower boys" isnt really supposed to be feminine, but rather to look fashionable and probably rich. And there is has been similar or maybe almost identical stuff in western pop-culture and fashion (anyone remembering Michael Jackson? Or the Backstreet Boys? And now isnt there this flower boy called Justin Bieber?) Also a man growing a big belly from drinking too much beer and smoking doesnt sound very foreign to me. The differences are more subtle.
Thanks for making me appreciate my beard a little bit more. Ur social commentary on China makes the world a little closer. Knowledge and understand is a weapon against hatred ignorance and bigotry.. Thanks again..
You guy really need to learn about some history. The homophobia in China is imported from the west. It largely came about as part of the anti-Qing movement (May 4th, etc) which looked deeply to the west to guide it intellectually. Homophobia was part what was imported. The Qing were very open to homosexuality; in fact it was common for well off European gays to relocate to China, especially BJ and SH, because their home countries usually had the death penalty if you where gay but they could live openly and freely in Qing China. Acceptance of homosexuality varied from dynasty to dynasty with the Qing and the Tang both being very accepting. You should think of it was the west trying to impose something new on China, but rather China returning to it roots and throwing off western homophobia.
While you make a lot of good points about the "little emperor" spoilage and the arranged marriages, your lack of experience with Asian school age kids is also, a little obvious... Psychologist Elaine Aron - who identified the genetic trait of SPS (Sensory Processing Sensitivity) - noticed during her research that in East Asian cultures, "sensitivity" is considered a positive attribute for men, whereas in the west it is considered 'unmanly/feminine'. As a result, East Asian parents/schools encourages boys to be more in-tune with emotions, both themselves and others, which is a trait that "masculine western men" sorely lack. In fact, Elaine commented that in the west, a boy born with natural sensitivity is bound to become bullied to the point of low-esteem, introversion, and even suicide, whereas in Asia they are welcomed and praised by those around them. Thus, for a man to show feminine traits or be "effeminate" has never really been seen as a problem. That being said, Chinese culture does expect men to be fully independent, capable of bearing hardships, and have long term vision, and that's the side lacking these days.
Day Y. I couldn’t find any research articles by Elaine Aaron about sensitivity being viewed as a positive treat in East Asia. The only research of her I could find regarding East Asians was that, when tested with Americans, people with high SPS showed that culture had very little impact on their behavior judgement and decision-making. However, you’re certainly not wrong about the notion of masculinity becoming more sensitive, but this is a change that is prevalent in most cultures, albeit some more so than others.
Again.. loving the insight of your videos and honesty. I live in Denmark. I moved to England for a time and I certainly saw how the older generaion was just old fashioned and gender roles. My dad took leave to look after me back in 1982. My mum went back to work. Forget the roles. A man should want to know how to do things that can make him survive on his own. The same with women. Women shouldn't be allergic to DIY lol
It is quite a refreshing feeling to have a glimpse of the Chinese culture from a different unbiased perspective. Winston, you and your friend(s) have done a fantastic job. 你真棒！
Crescentfresh if China needs help with strengthening their men's masculinity then they must get exposed to MGTOW. MGTOW stands for men going their own way. What's happening in the western world en are boycotting dating and marriage. Their are thousands of MGTOW RUclips channels so you can learn about MGTOW and show it to the men in China.
MGTOW must not be a very big movement because I don't really know many guys who willfully are not married or in steady relationship. . the ones that are single is usually by circumstance, not choice.
I actually don’t see a problem with androgynous or effeminate men, if that’s what they like. No men should be forced to be masculine. Granted, that’s a different topic from coddling which discourages children from developing initiative, creative problem solving, and resiliency.
The difference is that in most Asian countries, education is the number one priority in a child's life. In the West, sports, popularity, and appearances are a much larger priority in the lives of those kids. In many cases, the popular kids are actually expected to have average or lower grades while the highest grades are reserved for the nerds of the school. That kind of culture warps what people value including what they find attractive and what they consider successful.
13:40 My partner and I were very worried how she was going to introduce me to her very traditional parents, but after our first dinner, they loved me, and i love them too.
SerpetZA 2017: "I love to keep politics out of everything." SerpetZA 2021: "And oNe MoRe ThInG wrong with the CCP is..." Guess even if you don't believe in politics, politics believes in you, and eventually it can't be ignored.
I don’t speak Chinese lol So it’s really hard to understand the culture in these times But I dated one Vietnamese girl And lots of these things are true With the family hierarchy And the men being spoiled to the point they treat women horribly in marriage It’s crazy because the kdrama’s and Asian Tv completely misconstrues the expectations of a man And they don’t expect the fantasy guy But on the outside It confuses foreigners like me Anyways very insightful I love the videos Love the effort you put into them Thank you so much.
In the west we also have a crisis, but instead we go off the rails in an over compensatory manner. We just think getting swole, upping our tinder count, and watching football is masculine and don't bother with anything else... As a result men are failing in schools, relationships, and lagging behind in many professions. Not to mention all round dull with no ambitions.
On the kpop thing, in South Korea, pretty boys aren't really seen as a big issue. Young girls are very much into pretty boys and kpop caters to that. In fact, Korean culture is very much into keeping up appearances. That's why fashion and plastic surgery are big industries over there.
I live in Seoul, and all the guys I know 30-60+ yrs are normal. The young kids are normal too. There might be a teen thing for some, and the K-pop stars themselves, but that's a small population. Koreans are normal conservatives who shout out patriarchal orders, they just don't value bulky builds and horrible fashion sense. Americans are much more gay, especially on the inside.
I think there's a deeper reason for those k-pop stars to become so popular and have a certain amount of creepy fans (they all have that, which is kind of particular comparing to western pop stars). Many young girls feed on those fabricated male fairy fantasies in order to go on in life. Some of them literally go crazy for those men they don't even know in real life. What they really need are therapists.
@@DL-idk not therapists but a reality check lol i used to like kpop culture and their groups but as i got older i calmed down a bit. it was just something to distract me since my parents are protective resulting into me not doing anything.
This series of videos is just so very very valuable. We form opinions about China from afar, and sometimes these are on mark, but very often they're completely wrong. As the century wears on, its imperative to properly understand China, and we can't do this without insight from such intelligent observers on the ground. Well done, guys.
Well. I'm gay and when I went to asian I was surprised at how feminine the men looked. I wasnt excited because it was a little too feminine for my liking but I also found it comical. I can get along with pretty much everyone regardless of politics. I always fall somewhere in the middle just like you guys. What I dont like though, is how authoritarian the chinese government is. Things in the west have gotten really crazy with lgbt and race issues which have pushed me back to the right. Imagine being a gay person like me who now will probably vote for trump lmao. It's a weird world we're living in.
"The boy are valuable" opinion is not still popular at least in eastern area. Many Chinese boys can't find a girlfriend. The arrangement just offers a chance to meet not a deal. The girls are picky in China. And the mother of girls actually push up the housing price in China! Rich boys have choice but the girls also can choose. And nowadays, at least for my male friends in China, many of them go to gyms and they are training themselves.
You are diving into this subject with the bluntness of someone who lives in China, which is different to how we approach these things in the West. And especially with at the end, 'we don't take sides' - I feel like you guys are going native! Blunt in pointing out observations, but cagey in expressing heartfelt opinions and bigger conclusions is a way I would stereotype my Chinese friends.
They could be low key gay and not out due to the potential stigma in China. But I hope that @adv china is not insinuating that these are straight Chinese men here without even knowing them and generalizing that all straight Chinese men are like this. I hope that are definitely not do that
Thank you guys very much for posting this! It helps out alot hearing your words, especially with the personal masculinity crisis that I myself have been going through.
I'm a video editor and I love having you guys videos playing in the background as I work I find myself just letting a playlist run for hours. Please keep going as long as you can, this is such great work.
These guys describe the millennial generation as a whole not just the Chinese... Btw I thought that the fact of loving more male babies, lead to overpopulation of males in China leading to an opposite situation. For men in China is harder to find a female companion and this fact leads them to anxiety.. I think this video is missinformative..
The guys are absolutely correct in their comments. However, Chinese family especially Mum's want their daughters to marry a 'nice' Chinese boy, not a westerner. I caused a shocked response when the family house keeper first saw me in just a towel after a shower crossing to the bedroom. I have blond beard, blond hair, blue eyes and covered all over with western style body hair. Took the wife's family a while to get used to me. Thick beard and body hair are rare in China. I often attract curious looks on the street especially in more rural areas. Not sure what they think but people of all ages & position want to take photos with me. In one far away place a young man asked if I would mind having my photo taken with a surprised very old man sitting near me in a temple park. Turns the 90yr old man was his Father and I was the 'first' westerner he had ever seen in the flesh.
Once we try to define what is ´a real man´ or what is ´a real woman´ we are confronted with all kind of non truths. However, it is very interesting to try to define what different societies and era´s would want ´a real (wo-)man´ to be. For my grandmother, born around 1900, it was very easy. A good ´real man´ did not beat his woman/wife, was a working man, and contributed his money to his family. In our era, the old definitions and ideas don´t work any longer. Is it possible to include the whole spectrum of all kinds of ´real (wo-)men´ in one definition?
No, there either a definition or there isn’t. To understand why the definition you have to ask why gender norms arose in the first place and why they’re phasing out in some places.
Have either of you ever considered traveling to Vancouver bc? I live there and about 40% of the city is Chinese, there are around a 1,000,000 people in the Vancouver area and like 400,000ish of them are Chinese which is pretty significant so Chinese culture is pretty prevalent here and I’d be interested in knowing like how authentic some of the food and cultural practices are.
Also, as the living conditions, quality of life, gets better in China, and it certainly has, it becomes more and more possible for a person to fend for themselves and live alone. And guess what, they may don't start a family. They don't NEED a family to exist, to get around. I'm not saying it's true to all people, obviously, but certainly a lot more people are like that nowadays than, say, 50 years ago.
I am abandoned by my father's family, because all they wanted was a son. Then he married other 2 woman just to fulfill his family wishes, to inherit money and stuff. If I was a boy, I think I would be a king right now. But I don't want that at all. I love how you guys cover these kind of issues of China!!
0:10 Pink used to be seen as the masculine color and blue as the feminine one. And of course it's in the international news. Story outline contains the words "China" and "crisis". 0:14 You are using the word chauvinism like people use the word ska when they mean punk. It's male chauvinism, which is not an ideal term. Chauvinism is Qixote-level nationalism/patriotism. All these different views on masculinity show what an artificial construct it is to a big degree though and how much confusion there is. Spiritual teachings like Daoism could enlighten people there. Drinking a lot to be a man is so funny because alcohol brings out the true, unsuppressed self, i.e. opening the heart. Very emotional. Can make men behave like the woman stereotype. (And beer contains estrogen.) 6:13 "We have to prove we're men in order to get women." - While the secret underlying truth is more like the other way round. ;-) As for the idea of a 'survivor' kind of person being a man, that would kinda defy the counterpole of an ideal woman unless you want to get into muslim-fundamentalist areas. Men being survivors won't do because it means they adapt to a harsh world and will, in that aspect, become unable to contibute to building a less harsh world. It's a bit like with, and often expressed in, money. The way you attain it defines your dependencies and limitations. Money/power, they are often exchangeable. Rich and powerful people are often actually utterly powerless, since they can only serve the pain that drove them towards that. And we can see what kind of influence they have on society. So I don't think the liberals and conservatives from the USA are both wrong in this case, but both have a point, although they of course cannot comprehend bringing the best of both worlds together. But I also don't expect the Chinese government to have that wisdom. How is it there's worry about a masculinity crisis but not of a femininity crisis in China? While in the USA they're even kinda shunning it on the liberal side with a misguided feminism. The actually wise way is to nourish the best in everyone, and identifying first what that is, and then have them mature. Trying to fit a social stereotype is not maturity. It is fear-driven. Maturity comes from shedding fears from the psyche. ( *A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. ... I gotta watch ponies. Deal with it. 8)* ) If you don't bring up politics in order to avoid conflict, that is philosophically interesting. On one hand it can empower the heart and tone down the crap in the mind, on the other hand it can breed fear by avoiding looking at people's truth, not wanting to get to know them, what moves them profoundly. It all depends on whether your motivations for your actions are based in fear or love. You may see the shit hitting the fan and it is building a better world. You may see dancing and smiling and laughter and are witnessing great misery on its conquest. It could be one way or the other for each of those cases. You will only find out if you dare to learn the truth.
A great thing about being in the comments section...I do get to take sides! Actually, I don't really have anything to say on the culture side of this issue in China. I am for traditional (but non-chauvanistic) conceptions of masculinity in the West, but China...what the heck do I know? What I will say is that, even when real cultural reform IS needed, it's not the government's job. I am all for people going out and trying to fix what they think is wrong in a society's culture, but it is the *people's* responsibility. This is another example of the CCP confusing themselves with the Chinese people and society. It's a scary thing when culture/society and state/government are treated as the same thing.
I am guy living in Hong Kong. It seems real men here are someone who makes a decent living for himself,his family and also makes sure his ageing parents are leading comfortable retired life. Building biceps, growing beard or moustache is not really Manly, even many gays are growing moustache and have muscular physique.
big mike what's true and what's false? It's two guys opinions generalising all men from a diverse nation. Is there truth? Of course, but there are generalisations of an age group and social economic background...answer your question?
Cmon guys I think there is way more of a crisis when it comes to men with identity politics in the America. There is a man in US now that says he's transgender and a Filipino woman. I think there is a metrosexual trend, going on in asia, which is not exclusive to China. It's also a global trend (gays run fashion industry) but it doesn't mean fashions and trends make chinese men any less of a heterosexual man. Never judge a man by his cover. Men will adopt latest trends that young women are into. It's cyclical and when more masculine styles are back, women will like that's again, and men will follow suit. This is a case of fads, trends, which increasingly change in a hyper speed world we live. Need to be careful not to confuse form over function. But there will always be girls who like athletic buff guys no matter the latest fashion trends. Different strokes for different folks. Cheers.
Many Asian ladies prefer nerdy, academic guys with glasses. Given it's a Confucian society that values education above all else and being a good student above, athletic muscular guys are less desirable and often looked down upon by the family. You'll see attractive girls with nerdy guys with glasses in Korea and Japan too! I would say this is different from the west, where the hot girl dates the QB of the football team. But even in the west, girls are more open to n red, because let's face it, nerds run silicon and Wall Street!
It's funny how these white dudes work out, dress up just to be "manly" and "win girls' heart". Cuz as a Chinese, I work out, dress up because I enjoy doing em.
I find the definition of a masculine man in China to have two definitions. The first is very similar to the "chad" stereotype in the West, a muscular, hard drinking, aggressive, womanising, bro culture alpha male, best exemplified by the characters in the Water Margin, 水滸傳, notably Lu Zhishen and Wu Song. This has, however, fallen out of favour in exchange for the second definition, an effiminate, silk clad rich kid. In Chinese culture, more often than not, the rich kid takes the girls with him.
Being a men has not much to do how you dress/what kind of music you like. It's about having "balls", taking responsibility and being respectful, at work, for your family, children and partner...
People of the world
"America is so crazy right?"
China
"Hold my little emperor."
**holds a squirming little fat kid that’s trying to bite my arm** ok
@@parkchimmin7913 gosh i can imagine it perfectly, so funny 😂👌
Hahaha
Thanks for making me laugh 🤣
What if the Right could hope for no more than fleeting electoral victories? What if, in the long run, it was doomed to lose the ideological war? If you are asking yourself “Why are we losing ?” you should read "The Promethean Right: Why the Right is losing the battle of ideas”
The entire country seems to be under construction.
Hahaha best comment ever. Watching their videos make me think China is just a social experiment...and the lab breaks often because it's China.
nation building in the most literal sense. remember: china made the jump from a primarily agrarian society to and industrial society in 2 generations. in the west industrialization took centuries to reach all area of north america and europe
i was thinking the samething. these ppl are like bees and ants!
Hahahahahha hahahaha so funny too you must be a chicken @OolTube02
Or falling apart.
A real man is not a sheep, nor a wolf. He is a shepherd.
'a real man'... so sad. A comment from 1950...
ok
@Klik B Well that have been true for most of history although there have been exception and time is changing.
Can he be a gardener, or a cowboy, it's always got to be sheep?
Amen
Im a chinese i fix all my shit myself. fixing car, changing oil, fixing house electric, wires. not b/c i want to, im poor as fuck
I think they hang out with too many rich Chinese dudes... I assume the majority of Chinese males are good at fixing stuff because they can't afford to pay someone else to do it. It's only people trying to appear rich that intentionally are useless. You're probably a cool guy. :)
It actually depends. My dad cant do much. I think hes pretty spoil by my grandma haha. but most labor job in china is super cheap so ppl really dont have to do themselves.
i cant do anything of that but im good in martial arts so...
@Tuzz I'm American and I do the same. Everything is overpriced here. You could spend your life working and never accomplish anything important because your always paying for basic crap.
Same here in Eastern Europe, what we can we do ourselves rather than having to pay someone.
I always made fun of the guys with the man purses when I first got to China. 4 years later, I have a man purse.
LOL
Now, is it full of cash? :D
I see a lot of man purses here in Europe as well :)
Nathan Wilson hold your tongue and say you have man purse. Then you will know what you are.
Girl ;)
Manliness: To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!
Tony Ennis love the Koran quote!
I think it's from Conan. :D Though if Conan nicked it from the Koran, that wouldn't surprise me at all.
Shows how "manliness" is a very fuzzy concept just like "honor". (Although the latter is actually quite straightforward if you see the origin of the word.)
Austrian Sumerian I believe.
I think it's a quote repeated incorrectly in its wording, but is generally attributed to ghengis khan, though there is no proof he actually said it.
Good times make weak men, weak mean make hard times, hard times make strong men, strong men make good times.
You preach papapapapapapa John!
True but stupid on our part. We should make temperate times for temperate men. No more hard times...
Wow that actually makes 100% sense. Cheers
Great analogy for sodomy.
Papa John good times make better ingredients, better ingredients make better pizzas
Really strange that these guys mentioned the one child policy but not the HUGE gender imbalance it created. More than a million extra men who by definition will find it impossible to marry and have families. This is the true masculine crisis in China and it's surprising they didn't even touch on it, since I imagine it's having strange effects on the perception of masculinity. Although from what I've heard this affects lower class people more heavily. These guys seemed to focus solely on the rich portion of society, and let's be honest - rich kids are spoiled and coddled everywhere.
That the massive gender imbalance did not find mention in this discussion of the "masculinity crisis" shows how short-sighted and self-centered our commenters are. The reality is, as you say, that Chinese men are facing a female shortage of enormous proportions, and are hard put to find marriageable women.
Michael Meo, They do have a video where they talk about gender imbalance. Watch the video before making judgments. This current video is about China Government propaganda "crisis of masculinity" not about gender imbalance which I also recommend to watch by the way.
Michael Meo oo
They are having an organic dialogue.
"siukong
9 months ago
Really strange that these guys mentioned the one child policy but not the HUGE gender imbalance it created. "
At the same time, Chinese women are *still* having a hard time finding men because their standards are impossibly high.
As an Asian man, the first time I saw this video I was angry. But then I realized that masculinity essence grows through challenge. So I got up, got back to the gym, and started communicating with strangers and asking out random girls for a date (something that Asian men most likely have never done), and I became more confident. The feminized Asian guy can't get a girl but can keep a girl interested, that's why our divorce rate is low, all we have to do is to increase our masculinity. Thx dudes
Awesome man, well done for taking the initiative and keep on staying awesome!
In China the divorce rate isn't low though.
My own perceptions of masculinity were challenged when I met someone who had served in the SAS. He wasn't feminine but was softly spoken, polite and in no way socially dominant while talking. He was kind of a introvert. In many ways western society expects a man to be socially aggressive and dominant in order to be masculine. He didn't meet those stereo types but by nature of his former position was clearly a badass of the highest order.
Late reply, but that's because people confuse being aggressive with being confident. I've never seen the steriotypical jock as "manly," because a man knows how to control himself.
|
Simply put, the agressive outgoing guy isn't manly, he's either insecure or doesn't think about things much. Look at the martial artist who knows how to fight but avoids them, they usually fit.
He was to confident and assured to act up
SAS?
@@non-wx8qm special air service. UK special forces.
@@kms50549 That's cool. I'll have to Google them. The things you learn. 👍🏻
I'm Chinese. I can say for CERTAIN that the ideal Chinese man is not a loser with a beer belly and cig hanging out of his mouth. Men can get away with that in some parts of China. But elsewhere, there are real expectations, you'll have a hard time getting respect from women or men if you don't meet those standards. I'll just mention 3.
1. Have a good job/make lots of money. If you can't hold down a job, no girl's gonna want to marry you and no one is going to introduce a girl to you. The pay and social statuses of your job is very proportionally related to your eligibility. For a woman, having a good/high paying job may make her look pretty cool, but it's also a liability because she usually only wants men who are equally or more successful. And men who make less would find her intimidating. She doesn't have whole lot of choices.
2. Take care of your family, financially. It is the man's job to provide the money. A woman's financial contribution is a personal/family thing. If she works, that's great. But, if mom works but dad's unemployed, NOT OKAY. Real men do not live off his wife or his parents, or anyone else. He should be financially independent and take care of this family (parents, spouse, children minimally). This means that men have greater pressure to get money-making jobs. A woman can be a free lance artist, heck she can be unemployed as far as the society is concerned. But if a man doesn't have a steady income, he's irresponsible, and a failure of a man.
3. Men are supposed to be strong emotionally, socially, but not necessarily physically. They are not supposed to not cry. (Though Chinese men seem to cry a lot more than Americans.) They are supposed to be strong and resilient when facing life problems or conflicts. If they just try to avoid problems, they are not manly. While that kind of strength is appreciated in women, their gender identity doesn't depend on it.
Good on you mate! And yes of course people like yourself are changing things for the better
We need more comments like this. On both side are many ridicoulus comments here.
This is a well thought out one though.
Same for india,i think it's an Asian thing
this is same all around the world.. cheers from Europe
It was a joke, because they are often the manly men you see.
Left wing, right wing, chicken wing! Buckawk!!
If only they could learn to flap in sync. (But when the right wing hears "in sync", the mental image makes it lose its rhythm. And when the left wing hears "right", it forgets to flap altogether.)
@@Dowlphin in some ways the CCP is making it flapping in sync, but with an absolutist term, and minimal freedom of involvement from general public, but it is what it is for now
@Kenny Lin - In any case: Heart and brain sit BETWEEN the wings.
We can learn more from nature than we think. There is so much beautiful poetry.
If the USA see themselves as an eagle, a symbol of soaring freedom, then they have to stop declaring each wing an individual. Their extreme individualism-fixation is their downfall. They cannot find balance. ... And then of course we could also point out that the eagle is kind of an apex predator. I think the USA is a lot more inspired by that idea.
Interestingly, both Russia's and China's iconic animal is a bear. (The eagle can hardly kill a bear, but the bear can kill an eagle if it is careless and aggressive.)
See how much poetry there is?
Rule #1 of manliness: If you worry about your manliness, you lack it.
Having a convo while riding bikes... that's pretty dope
how are they achieving that?
Abhinav Kumar mics and headphones.
And motorbikes
ya better than while in a bathroom
@@DrAbhinavKumar
they have thicc voice boxes
@ 2:32
I come from Eastern Europe, and that description for manly is same as ours (Gopnik) down to every freaking detail, only thing missing is Adidas tracksuit xD
And the Bluetooth earpiece is the latest "upgrade" XD
Eastern Europe is part of the west nowadays i think. Certainly not as different as even 30 years ago
@@OK-ws7ti Depends where you go. Still, you can't offset 45 years of communism that quickly. Even though the wall fell 30 years ago, some things still haven't changed.
@@OK-ws7ti No, it fucking is not. LMAO, the very idea that it is... LMAO
@@OK-ws7ti Eastern Europe reminds me so much of England in the late 80's/early 90's. Alot of their subculture and stuff is influenced by English subculture from decades ago. It's almost like looking into my countries past when I look at some places in Poland or Ukraine etc, you get the same kind of vibe.
gopnik is the opposite of manly, but yes, it perfectly matches the also-not-manly Chinese definition..
but the Chinese have thousands of kilograms of soy products each year to blame for their lack of masculinity, what excuse have slavs?
"a masculine Chinese man spends as little time with his family as possible"
awwwww
What a fuck up remark, Chinese man have to put up long hours of work that is unimaginable in Western standards, in the film industry 16 hours per day is standard working hours, overtime is the norm. Family? Some of them just barely surviving
A large number of Chinese men
@@tl6969 16 hour days are standard on western farms. During spring and fall work it could get pushed to 20 at times. We still make time for the family. Before we make time for anything else. Long work hours are a lame excuse.
I am making a comparison between film industries. I have little knowledge about the Chinese farming industry, can't commnent on that. Filmmakers travels all around to film for period of months, is not able to be with ones' family an lazy escuse ?
@@tl6969 well ya. The point is it doesn't matter what industry you are in, if there is anything that is taking priority over your family you are doing it wrong. If your job actually is so much work that you can not see them, which it never is, then definitely quit. Like quit today. Money will not be a problem if thats what scares you. Money is easy to get, it is a side effect of hard work.
Thank you for this interesting video!
I'm a European with a degree in Chinese language and culture and spent
about two years in China and Taiwan. While I'm familiar with all the
things you mentioned, my experiences have partly been a bit different:
.
- I've met loads of Chinese guys who work very hard to impress girls. Like you said, arranged marriages etc. are still seen among rich/powerful/very conservative families, but are not necessarily the norm.
- Lots of young guys exercise, also to look good (less weightlifting than in the West though)
- The 土豪 with their cigarettes and man purses are seen as tacky by reasonably educated Chinese people. And a big belly on a guy is mostly considered unattractive by Chinese women as well.
For some, having a big belly (just like a really long fingernail on the pinky) is just a way to show that they don't have to do physical work which is not seen as prestigious. In many European countries, being a skilled craftsman is quite a respectable profession, while the Chinese seem to strongly prefer being business people when it comes to prestige.
- I think the fact that these guys are flaunting cash is attractive in a way because so many girls were raised in way that made money a high priority in a potential male partner.
In Western countries that have been relatively wealthy for a while, the view of money is quite different compared to large parts of the Chinese population. As you said, the parents' generation of today's 20-somethings often grew up way poorer than their kids.
- When Chinese people talk about 男子漢, that usually does imply a muscular physique. Interestingly, I also noticed and have been told by locals that many of the more muscular guys are in fact gay.
Thanks for your commenting, really interesting to read from a different perspective.
8:40
" I Thought All the men were gay"
"Your not the Only one...."
HA!!!
haha so funny righ
Heaven of gays LOL
@stefan matvei swietoniowski Yes! That must explain why strong western women don't want them.
They STINK of it!
Renaud de Châtillon well they don’t want you either 😂
@@johnsonkids3058 thats not how it looks from where I'M sitting,Married with two teen girls.
I have this impression that most of things in China (including culture) are kind of artificial.
Its true.
The actual stuff was destroyed in culture revolution.
Sexuality in China is actually more interesting than you think, at least historically. One of the things early British travelers couldn't stand about China was the pervasiveness of homosexuality in the imperial courts of China. The "traditional" side of china's sexuality might have been constructed after 1949. Homosexuality is getting more "popular" among the young Chinese. Also, don't forget that one of China's top entertainer today Jin Xing is a trans, and people seems to be okay with that.
We definitely think the young generation is more open to this kind of change! Thanks!
It could be because the courts where dominated by eunuchs. Eunuchs exhibited feminine characteristics.
You are right on point. China used to be the most gay friendly country in the world. It doesn't have a history of persecuting homosexuals. However, as always, communism fucks everybody up including gays.
correct
Those in the courts were eunuchs to make sure that only the emperor had mating rights. This was an alpha male after all. Much like a wolf pack where only the top male had mating rights. Very biological.
so basically I'm very masculine according to Chinese standards
It's not just China, most anti-gay cultured countries tend to have men that appear more "feminine" compared to the west. For example, men in India, China, Pakistan all can be lot more touchy with each other, because they see nothing wrong with it. The thought of it being gay, or having any sexual meaning never crosses their mind. The westerners are very scared of getting called gay or having their sexual orientation assumed wrong, so they label everything as gay or not gay.
I also disagree with calling Chinese men not seeing real life. Most of these poor people are seeing real life, even as a child. Many Chinese boys even work as children, instead of playing minecraft all day. In many ways, I would say that's lot more rough than the rich spoiled western culture.
@An Angry Man you are pathetic
It’s true and was true in the west till recently
Nikolai Ludovik
>implying that homosexuality is a choice
What? Oh sure they dont thought of it being gay , cause they hang the gays, throw them from building etc. but hey they must be way better than the west ofc cause muh patriachy .
+MrEvan1932
>Never implied homosexuality is a choice to begin with.
>Says that I did that, even though the left promotes ideals that in turn promote values that have a connection to it, basically rendering what you said pointless.
Are you blind? Or do I need to give you examples like how when gay people complain they suddenly have the moral upper advantage over anyone else and get the government to punish whoever criticizes them or their actions/activities?
"When he got to China he thought everyone was gay, and he was like really happy. Then he found out that they're not actally gay, they just... look gay".
Lol
Have you ever been to a gay bar ? Cuz everyone there is buff hairy tattoed and sweaty.
I laughed so hard at that!
Imagine him being in Korea. There are a lot of guys look pretty gay.(in western point of view)
“I found it kinda funny- That man is peeing- Anyways...”
_Metrosexual:_ a blind person thinks you're straight and a deaf person thinks you're gay.
Lmaooo nice
Not every gay person has a gay voice lol.
I think it's so funny when foreign exchange students from the Middle East and Asia come to America and expect the women here to wait on them. My first bf was Chinese studying in my hometown and told me he was mad that I didn't wait on him or make him a sandwich. Broke up with him the next day. Also, Vivi has always seemed super forward thinking and smart regardless of the "man's society" in China. You married a great woman C-milk!
"Masculinity is not about being the biggest, the fastest, the strongest, the one who sleeps with the most girls, and the one who has the most money.
The one who has the most accomplishments is not the most masculine.
In fact, it is often the men who covet these things most who are covering and compensating for the greatest insecurities.
Let us revere the one who loves others deeply, loves himself deeply, and has a dream that he is inspired to live with and by and through.
He is a man.
He does not stand unmoved or untouched in the face of truly moving experiences.
He does not judge the totality of his life or anyone else’s life by the totals on the scoreboard as the clock ticks down to zero.
He does not use money as a proxy for emotional connection nor material possessions as the measure of his self-worth.
He does not define his manhood by the number of women he has conquered.
He does not always fight fire with fire; sometimes he doesn’t need to fight at all.
He does not meet seriousness with silliness when it is seriousness that is required.
He does not take risks for risks’ sake, because he does not hide from his frailty, his mortality, or his humanity.
He does not pretend to know everything about anything, nor is he afraid to admit when he knows nothing about something.
And perhaps most important of all, he does not walk around thinking he’s The Man.
No, the masculine man goes through a journey, a process of self-discovery, and figures out what he needs to do to acquire the tools, knowledge, wisdom, grace, love, passion, and joy to pursue his destiny.
His destiny is his dreams.
Those may evolve over time, but in their pursuit, he is not breaking down anyone else or hurting anyone else.
He is not at war with other people, conquering them.
He is the one joining forces, searching for the win-win.
He is the one who is lifting others up, inspiring others through his journey and his own process (in which he is finding ways to create value along the way).
He is the hero of his own journey.
And in so being, he is looking for every way to have the best relationships possible with his family, friends, his romantic partner, his colleagues, or his customers.
He’s finding ways to be the best possible version of himself.
Masculinity is about discovering yourself and owning what you find.
It’s about being kind to others, and pursuing your dreams with all the passion and energy you can muster.
It’s about doing something that is meaningful to you that brings value to others.
That’s how you build a legacy."
― Lewis Howes, The Mask of Masculinity: How Men Can Embrace Vulnerability, Create Strong Relationships, and Live Their Fullest Lives
Everyone should strive to be masculine. I will certainly try to, if this is what it truly means :0. Has this person defined femininity as well?
I'm not sure that's a masculinity worth pursuing
@@appa609 Well I just think it's not really masculinity at all. It's just admirable traits most people should pursue.
💗
4 years after the video
China start to carck down on pop stars hard
Such a foresight
I'd imagine the Chinese arent primarily as concerned with how the men dress, i'm guessing it's more about the fact that little emperors make for a poor work force
The fact is, if you dress too well, and work at a sweatshop, your colleges will look down at you. But if you are a middle class, well educated,, I will say they dress pretty well compared to western middle-class men. Its the income and education man
All these folks who say traditional minded people are not tolerant when they wont tolerate my strong traditional beliefs.. ?!
From my recent experience over in China, I found that young men don't know how to fix anything. They are accustomed to calling someone to fix things with an unwillingness to figure out how things work or create solutions to make things work. I'm generalizing of course.
Oh hi Gary! :D Nice to see you in the comments too.
That's everywhere, mate, not only in China. I remember repairing radios from the trash when I was 8 years old, and having 220 volts shocks every year, working with electricity. Today's kids only do videogames, kind of sad.
Gary Chung In the future they will do the same things to make some fun . But currently they are busy making money and fixing things that costs too much time and energy is not an economic option.
It is because it's much cheaper to let a professional to fix it since the labor fee is so cheap in China,unlike America. They rather become a master in a specific field than become a jack of all trades,but master in none.
Hope you had a great time in China. Are you planning to go back again?
Gary Chung Agree though some old people quite like playing with things. Nowadays it's not gonna get any better because all the young people have to attend school and work for 996(9am-9pm,6 days a week). They won't have time to look into things.
Monday mornings where I live start with your videos. I literally start my week watching you guys over breakfast. Love the way you make your videos and support all your projects. You guys are awesome! Keep up the good work! 🤙
I live in Korea and a good chunk of men are super effeminate. A real man here isn't all that attractive (at least to younger Korean women) because they live in the mindset that all men should be caring like the guys in K-pop and K-dramas. Koreans don't fully mature until they hit their late 30s (or are used to being around westerners).
I don't blame China one bit for doing what they're doing. It's hard enough to date in Korea and China but media isn't making it easy for folks.
I live in Korea too, I think you're half right. The Korean girls who like the the super effeminate guys are... girls, or women in their early 20s. You don't need to be effeminate, you can play the exotic card by growing your beard and dressing like a man, as long as you're in good shape, well-groomed and relatively stylish. Not being afraid to be different shows confidence, ALL women (particularly Korean women) LOVE that.
Not saying it's you, but a lot of foreigners in Korea who complain that Korean women aren't into "real men" are really saying Korean women aren't into white guys with permanent 3 day stubble, who wear old college football sweaters stupid baseball caps, baggie jeans, have a beer gut and can't speak Korean.
Just 2 examples, I was carpooling with 3 Korean guys in their 30s and a Korean women (late 20s). We got a puncture and instead of getting to work, changing the tyre, the 3 guys just stood around on their phones, waiting for help.
I changed the tyre in 5min (without any help from the 3 useless sods), the women looked like she basically wanted to jump my bones right there. I saw a Korean couple walking and there was a tiny dog in their path. The dark barked and the guy... ran away, leaving his GF there. She was super pissed at him.
KX5Kat Wholy crap, that is an amazing response. I actually do believe that cause most of society is raised to have someone else do something for them instead of taking the time to learn how to do it.
This is why it's crucial to have dads in the house: to teach us stuff like this!
What you said earlier about what a woman likes, I managed to experiment a little more and change my methods a bit. They worked!
The men are there eat soy, that is why they are effeminate. Actually, it is just a young inexperienced girl that wants a girl man, as she can relate to that, but it isn't what she really wants usually. Like princesses have a gay knight in shining armour in disney.
Oh my GOD, that is the FIRST thing I thought when I first heard BTS and their latest album. . . . Apparently, you can see a lot about the culture of young men based on which music is the most popular. . . .
Chinese are the true Hebrew Israelites of God technicaly india has more billionares then china
This comment section gave me several cancers.
keep watching their videos, maybe you'll find a Chinese medicinal cure to beat em...I kid of course
Ikr...
Wojciech Dziedzic the don't watch anymore of their videos. All they promote is false propaganda aimed to obtain ur $
Me too
Aaron Guillermo I think he is talking more about the rampant ignorants, stereotypes, and racism and in the comments
I think japan is having a more seriously crisis.
"herbivore men"
Edmond Dantes the Philippines is the worst
Marko Pesic every 3rd male in the Philippines is a ladyboy
@c30f$p@d3z that’s insane
wheres the problem, majority will become minority, who cares, youll be dead before anything major happens
I just returned from Beijing and Qingdao, I was shocked they weren’t in general aggressive or intimidating, I felt like having a brake in my tough guy macho Alpha man acting mode; its felt good. No way I can walk that way in any American or Latino Night Club or any Western men environment with out your manhood/? be challenged. Its dosn't mean they are pussies, they aren’t scare about you because bigger or stronger. I guess their masculinity is not based in muscles and testosterone but in other concepts. I didn’t see any wrong on them.
I also enjoy this in Asian countries. It feels so relaxing and safe. Like another planet. I have no idea why we, Caucasian men, are so uptight all the time.
I used be scared of going to war with China but now I am not lol
Yall westerners feel the need for outward-style masculinity, real men are ok with being seen as unmanly. You dont need to boast all the time. Loosen up man
@@ddp47297 it's actually very hard to just change yourself and loosen up.
@nazmi nazmi I mean between the hairy testorene monster and the soft hands beer belly betavi would bet on the USA bro
The title had me worried. I thought C-Milk was being deported.
His haircut should be deported.
roflmao... HAHAHAH
Savage
I think chinese (or asian) guys dressing like k-pop "flower boys" isnt really supposed to be feminine, but rather to look fashionable and probably rich. And there is has been similar or maybe almost identical stuff in western pop-culture and fashion (anyone remembering Michael Jackson? Or the Backstreet Boys? And now isnt there this flower boy called Justin Bieber?) Also a man growing a big belly from drinking too much beer and smoking doesnt sound very foreign to me. The differences are more subtle.
Thanks for making me appreciate my beard a little bit more. Ur social commentary on China makes the world a little closer. Knowledge and understand is a weapon against hatred ignorance and bigotry.. Thanks again..
Don't worry, in the West you won't find much masculinity either nowadays. Unfortunately.
If you hate the West so much - there is Russia, there they hate gays, democracy, women and whatever else that might make you uncomfortable
You guy really need to learn about some history. The homophobia in China is imported from the west. It largely came about as part of the anti-Qing movement (May 4th, etc) which looked deeply to the west to guide it intellectually. Homophobia was part what was imported. The Qing were very open to homosexuality; in fact it was common for well off European gays to relocate to China, especially BJ and SH, because their home countries usually had the death penalty if you where gay but they could live openly and freely in Qing China. Acceptance of homosexuality varied from dynasty to dynasty with the Qing and the Tang both being very accepting. You should think of it was the west trying to impose something new on China, but rather China returning to it roots and throwing off western homophobia.
yeah....don't forget these globalist wanna impose their toxic culture on east asia
First time I saw c milk I thought he was gay
The EngiNerd I definitely didn’t.
Why how
He legits gives off lesbian vibes😅
Looked very similar to the lesbian I had cutting my hair at one point...her name was Tini...😂
While you make a lot of good points about the "little emperor" spoilage and the arranged marriages, your lack of experience with Asian school age kids is also, a little obvious...
Psychologist Elaine Aron - who identified the genetic trait of SPS (Sensory Processing Sensitivity) - noticed during her research that in East Asian cultures, "sensitivity" is considered a positive attribute for men, whereas in the west it is considered 'unmanly/feminine'. As a result, East Asian parents/schools encourages boys to be more in-tune with emotions, both themselves and others, which is a trait that "masculine western men" sorely lack. In fact, Elaine commented that in the west, a boy born with natural sensitivity is bound to become bullied to the point of low-esteem, introversion, and even suicide, whereas in Asia they are welcomed and praised by those around them. Thus, for a man to show feminine traits or be "effeminate" has never really been seen as a problem.
That being said, Chinese culture does expect men to be fully independent, capable of bearing hardships, and have long term vision, and that's the side lacking these days.
Day Y. I couldn’t find any research articles by Elaine Aaron about sensitivity being viewed as a positive treat in East Asia. The only research of her I could find regarding East Asians was that, when tested with Americans, people with high SPS showed that culture had very little impact on their behavior judgement and decision-making. However, you’re certainly not wrong about the notion of masculinity becoming more sensitive, but this is a change that is prevalent in most cultures, albeit some more so than others.
@@coldman373 It's discussed explicitly in her first book -- The Highly Sensitive Person.
Again.. loving the insight of your videos and honesty. I live in Denmark. I moved to England for a time and I certainly saw how the older generaion was just old fashioned and gender roles. My dad took leave to look after me back in 1982. My mum went back to work. Forget the roles. A man should want to know how to do things that can make him survive on his own. The same with women. Women shouldn't be allergic to DIY lol
It is quite a refreshing feeling to have a glimpse of the Chinese culture from a different unbiased perspective. Winston, you and your friend(s) have done a fantastic job. 你真棒！
Bravely taking on this topic, good job guys, this was really interesting.
Appreciate it!
They didn't talk about C-Milk's pussyish haircut though.
Crescentfresh if China needs help with strengthening their men's masculinity then they must get exposed to MGTOW. MGTOW stands for men going their own way. What's happening in the western world en are boycotting dating and marriage. Their are thousands of MGTOW RUclips channels so you can learn about MGTOW and show it to the men in China.
MGTOW must not be a very big movement because I don't really know many guys who willfully are not married or in steady relationship. . the ones that are single is usually by circumstance, not choice.
lol boycotting women? theres another word for that.
I actually don’t see a problem with androgynous or effeminate men, if that’s what they like. No men should be forced to be masculine. Granted, that’s a different topic from coddling which discourages children from developing initiative, creative problem solving, and resiliency.
A man that does not find his masculine has a haunted life. I bet you those type of men are empty and lost.
@@paulmeyer5482 I disagree. I think you can only be better for understanding yourself regardless of societal expectations of gender.
The difference is that in most Asian countries, education is the number one priority in a child's life. In the West, sports, popularity, and appearances are a much larger priority in the lives of those kids. In many cases, the popular kids are actually expected to have average or lower grades while the highest grades are reserved for the nerds of the school. That kind of culture warps what people value including what they find attractive and what they consider successful.
2:50 The bluetooth piece completed it, you've literally described my dad xDD
13:40 My partner and I were very worried how she was going to introduce me to her very traditional parents, but after our first dinner, they loved me, and i love them too.
This makes me laugh. Dont think I've ever met or seen a Chinese bloke that I've thought now there's a masculine guy.
Chinese women on the other hand 💪🏻
SerpetZA 2017: "I love to keep politics out of everything."
SerpetZA 2021: "And oNe MoRe ThInG wrong with the CCP is..."
Guess even if you don't believe in politics, politics believes in you, and eventually it can't be ignored.
I don’t speak Chinese lol
So it’s really hard to understand the culture in these times
But I dated one Vietnamese girl
And lots of these things are true
With the family hierarchy
And the men being spoiled to the point they treat women horribly in marriage
It’s crazy because the kdrama’s and Asian Tv completely misconstrues the expectations of a man
And they don’t expect the fantasy guy
But on the outside
It confuses foreigners like me
Anyways very insightful
I love the videos
Love the effort you put into them
Thank you so much.
Us western men are more superior than those Chinese and Vietnamese men
Will Flavell like in Math?
In the west we also have a crisis, but instead we go off the rails in an over compensatory manner. We just think getting swole, upping our tinder count, and watching football is masculine and don't bother with anything else... As a result men are failing in schools, relationships, and lagging behind in many professions. Not to mention all round dull with no ambitions.
On the kpop thing, in South Korea, pretty boys aren't really seen as a big issue. Young girls are very much into pretty boys and kpop caters to that. In fact, Korean culture is very much into keeping up appearances. That's why fashion and plastic surgery are big industries over there.
I live in Seoul, and all the guys I know 30-60+ yrs are normal. The young kids are normal too. There might be a teen thing for some, and the K-pop stars themselves, but that's a small population. Koreans are normal conservatives who shout out patriarchal orders, they just don't value bulky builds and horrible fashion sense. Americans are much more gay, especially on the inside.
I think there's a deeper reason for those k-pop stars to become so popular and have a certain amount of creepy fans (they all have that, which is kind of particular comparing to western pop stars). Many young girls feed on those fabricated male fairy fantasies in order to go on in life. Some of them literally go crazy for those men they don't even know in real life.
What they really need are therapists.
@@DL-idk not therapists but a reality check lol
i used to like kpop culture and their groups but as i got older i calmed down a bit. it was just something to distract me since my parents are protective resulting into me not doing anything.
"one child policy...more boys than girls... the guys don't have to do any work. girls are handed to them"
lolololol. anyone else see the paradox?
this post gave me cancer. please donate to thread cancer research.
Reason First sorry.. explain?
@@davidtriune8028 The poster is pointing out that the boys have a lot of competition from all those other boys.
o ok. so theres not enough girls to go around. well its being set up by families... who can only do it if there are girls around
The policy actually changed
This series of videos is just so very very valuable. We form opinions about China from afar, and sometimes these are on mark, but very often they're completely wrong. As the century wears on, its imperative to properly understand China, and we can't do this without insight from such intelligent observers on the ground. Well done, guys.
Oh god that dance off is cringe worthy, and I'm a white guy with no ability to dance at all myself.
6:36 "that man's peeing"
"Yeah"
stop looking at me.
Real men win the 1976 Olympic men's decathlon - oh wait, never mind.
I guy can change his mind , right?
Well. I'm gay and when I went to asian I was surprised at how feminine the men looked. I wasnt excited because it was a little too feminine for my liking but I also found it comical. I can get along with pretty much everyone regardless of politics. I always fall somewhere in the middle just like you guys. What I dont like though, is how authoritarian the chinese government is. Things in the west have gotten really crazy with lgbt and race issues which have pushed me back to the right. Imagine being a gay person like me who now will probably vote for trump lmao. It's a weird world we're living in.
@FatalPies yea that's true. The violent side of blm is almost exclusively made up of antifa anarcho communists.
When ya showed the dudes ribbon dancing I about lost it! 🤣😅😂😂😅🤣🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Their lung cancer rates must be sky high.
I'm an asian guy who's neither feminine nor androgynous :O
guess I'll never get a chinese / asian gf :X
"The boy are valuable" opinion is not still popular at least in eastern area. Many Chinese boys can't find a girlfriend. The arrangement just offers a chance to meet not a deal. The girls are picky in China. And the mother of girls actually push up the housing price in China! Rich boys have choice but the girls also can choose. And nowadays, at least for my male friends in China, many of them go to gyms and they are training themselves.
You are diving into this subject with the bluntness of someone who lives in China, which is different to how we approach these things in the West. And especially with at the end, 'we don't take sides' - I feel like you guys are going native! Blunt in pointing out observations, but cagey in expressing heartfelt opinions and bigger conclusions is a way I would stereotype my Chinese friends.
"appear weak when you are strong, appear strong when you are weak"
so am i understanding correctly the guys dancing at minute 5:18 are not gay?
They could be low key gay and not out due to the potential stigma in China. But I hope that @adv china is not insinuating that these are straight Chinese men here without even knowing them and generalizing that all straight Chinese men are like this. I hope that are definitely not do that
Could the masculinity crisis in China be related to eating so much soy?
S O Y B O Y S
Western's Crises
Hello
Too much estrogen in the soy!
@@nvno1943 There is no such think in soy. Soy is a plant. Learn some biology, will you?
Thank you guys very much for posting this! It helps out alot hearing your words, especially with the personal masculinity crisis that I myself have been going through.
You ever noticed how ubiquitous the popped collar is in China? At least it was when I was there 10 years ago.
I'm a video editor and I love having you guys videos playing in the background as I work I find myself just letting a playlist run for hours. Please keep going as long as you can, this is such great work.
These guys describe the millennial generation as a whole not just the Chinese... Btw I thought that the fact of loving more male babies, lead to overpopulation of males in China leading to an opposite situation. For men in China is harder to find a female companion and this fact leads them to anxiety.. I think this video is missinformative..
I agree.
Regarding arranged marriages: I think people these days confuse it with forced marriages.
Than rare moment when you are glad to live in Eastern Europe.
The guys are absolutely correct in their comments. However, Chinese family especially Mum's want their daughters to marry a 'nice' Chinese boy, not a westerner. I caused a shocked response when the family house keeper first saw me in just a towel after a shower crossing to the bedroom. I have blond beard, blond hair, blue eyes and covered all over with western style body hair. Took the wife's family a while to get used to me. Thick beard and body hair are rare in China. I often attract curious looks on the street especially in more rural areas. Not sure what they think but people of all ages & position want to take photos with me. In one far away place a young man asked if I would mind having my photo taken with a surprised very old man sitting near me in a temple park. Turns the 90yr old man was his Father and I was the 'first' westerner he had ever seen in the flesh.
Those officials clearly haven’t seen S. Korean men lol.
Good for Vivi for standing her ground. She's sweet and adorable and you two look so much in love.
Fascinating and worrying at the same time. Thanks.
Once we try to define what is ´a real man´ or what is ´a real woman´ we are confronted with all kind of non truths. However, it is very interesting to try to define what different societies and era´s would want ´a real (wo-)man´ to be. For my grandmother, born around 1900, it was very easy. A good ´real man´ did not beat his woman/wife, was a working man, and contributed his money to his family. In our era, the old definitions and ideas don´t work any longer. Is it possible to include the whole spectrum of all kinds of ´real (wo-)men´ in one definition?
No, there either a definition or there isn’t. To understand why the definition you have to ask why gender norms arose in the first place and why they’re phasing out in some places.
"If you wanna dress like a flower boy then go for it!... 😂"
Have either of you ever considered traveling to Vancouver bc? I live there and about 40% of the city is Chinese, there are around a 1,000,000 people in the Vancouver area and like 400,000ish of them are Chinese which is pretty significant so Chinese culture is pretty prevalent here and I’d be interested in knowing like how authentic some of the food and cultural practices are.
Madeline Smith 40% Chinese population?!!! Il have to see that for myself one day.
Also, as the living conditions, quality of life, gets better in China, and it certainly has, it becomes more and more possible for a person to fend for themselves and live alone. And guess what, they may don't start a family. They don't NEED a family to exist, to get around. I'm not saying it's true to all people, obviously, but certainly a lot more people are like that nowadays than, say, 50 years ago.
I am abandoned by my father's family, because all they wanted was a son. Then he married other 2 woman just to fulfill his family wishes, to inherit money and stuff. If I was a boy, I think I would be a king right now. But I don't want that at all.
I love how you guys cover these kind of issues of China!!
God bless you, yiliang ❤
0:10 Pink used to be seen as the masculine color and blue as the feminine one.
And of course it's in the international news. Story outline contains the words "China" and "crisis".
0:14 You are using the word chauvinism like people use the word ska when they mean punk. It's male chauvinism, which is not an ideal term. Chauvinism is Qixote-level nationalism/patriotism.
All these different views on masculinity show what an artificial construct it is to a big degree though and how much confusion there is. Spiritual teachings like Daoism could enlighten people there.
Drinking a lot to be a man is so funny because alcohol brings out the true, unsuppressed self, i.e. opening the heart. Very emotional. Can make men behave like the woman stereotype. (And beer contains estrogen.)
6:13 "We have to prove we're men in order to get women." - While the secret underlying truth is more like the other way round. ;-)
As for the idea of a 'survivor' kind of person being a man, that would kinda defy the counterpole of an ideal woman unless you want to get into muslim-fundamentalist areas. Men being survivors won't do because it means they adapt to a harsh world and will, in that aspect, become unable to contibute to building a less harsh world. It's a bit like with, and often expressed in, money. The way you attain it defines your dependencies and limitations. Money/power, they are often exchangeable. Rich and powerful people are often actually utterly powerless, since they can only serve the pain that drove them towards that. And we can see what kind of influence they have on society. So I don't think the liberals and conservatives from the USA are both wrong in this case, but both have a point, although they of course cannot comprehend bringing the best of both worlds together. But I also don't expect the Chinese government to have that wisdom.
How is it there's worry about a masculinity crisis but not of a femininity crisis in China? While in the USA they're even kinda shunning it on the liberal side with a misguided feminism. The actually wise way is to nourish the best in everyone, and identifying first what that is, and then have them mature. Trying to fit a social stereotype is not maturity. It is fear-driven. Maturity comes from shedding fears from the psyche. ( *A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. ... I gotta watch ponies. Deal with it. 8)* )
If you don't bring up politics in order to avoid conflict, that is philosophically interesting. On one hand it can empower the heart and tone down the crap in the mind, on the other hand it can breed fear by avoiding looking at people's truth, not wanting to get to know them, what moves them profoundly. It all depends on whether your motivations for your actions are based in fear or love.
You may see the shit hitting the fan and it is building a better world. You may see dancing and smiling and laughter and are witnessing great misery on its conquest. It could be one way or the other for each of those cases. You will only find out if you dare to learn the truth.
That's a great idea to tour around on your bikes for all to see while you speak about topics
interesting topic. Keep up a good work.
Thanks Audrey!
I love listening to you guys! Great insight and no BS. Keep it up!
A great thing about being in the comments section...I do get to take sides!
Actually, I don't really have anything to say on the culture side of this issue in China. I am for traditional (but non-chauvanistic) conceptions of masculinity in the West, but China...what the heck do I know? What I will say is that, even when real cultural reform IS needed, it's not the government's job. I am all for people going out and trying to fix what they think is wrong in a society's culture, but it is the *people's* responsibility.
This is another example of the CCP confusing themselves with the Chinese people and society. It's a scary thing when culture/society and state/government are treated as the same thing.
You guys are Crusaders of peace! 👍😎🏁 keep up the good work! Peace be on to you two!
“You gotta UNDERSTAND China...”
LOL
I watched this one again and threw this comment in for a laugh.
I am guy living in Hong Kong. It seems real men here are someone who makes a decent living for himself,his family and also makes sure his ageing parents are leading comfortable retired life.
Building biceps, growing beard or moustache is not really Manly, even many gays are growing moustache and have muscular physique.
Yeah dude get a plastic surgery, put on lipsticks and dress bizarrely.
That makes a real Chinese men, it appears.
As a Chinese guy I was laughing all throughout this video.
iamsheep because it's true or false?
big mike what's true and what's false? It's two guys opinions generalising all men from a diverse nation. Is there truth? Of course, but there are generalisations of an age group and social economic background...answer your question?
Cmon guys I think there is way more of a crisis when it comes to men with identity politics in the America. There is a man in US now that says he's transgender and a Filipino woman. I think there is a metrosexual trend, going on in asia, which is not exclusive to China. It's also a global trend (gays run fashion industry) but it doesn't mean fashions and trends make chinese men any less of a heterosexual man. Never judge a man by his cover. Men will adopt latest trends that young women are into. It's cyclical and when more masculine styles are back, women will like that's again, and men will follow suit. This is a case of fads, trends, which increasingly change in a hyper speed world we live. Need to be careful not to confuse form over function. But there will always be girls who like athletic buff guys no matter the latest fashion trends. Different strokes for different folks. Cheers.
Many Asian ladies prefer nerdy, academic guys with glasses. Given it's a Confucian society that values education above all else and being a good student above, athletic muscular guys are less desirable and often looked down upon by the family. You'll see attractive girls with nerdy guys with glasses in Korea and Japan too! I would say this is different from the west, where the hot girl dates the QB of the football team. But even in the west, girls are more open to n red, because let's face it, nerds run silicon and Wall Street!
Gabriel 1 careful there buddy. Sounds like you're struggling to overcompensate there.
It's funny how these white dudes work out, dress up just to be "manly" and "win girls' heart". Cuz as a Chinese, I work out, dress up because I enjoy doing em.
sounds like something a chick would say...
I find the definition of a masculine man in China to have two definitions. The first is very similar to the "chad" stereotype in the West, a muscular, hard drinking, aggressive, womanising, bro culture alpha male, best exemplified by the characters in the Water Margin, 水滸傳, notably Lu Zhishen and Wu Song. This has, however, fallen out of favour in exchange for the second definition, an effiminate, silk clad rich kid. In Chinese culture, more often than not, the rich kid takes the girls with him.
They need a course instructed by one of my favorite founding farthers, Ron Swanson.
😂😂😂😂
Living in China I can relate. Your comments most informative. Keep it up!
Being a men has not much to do how you dress/what kind of music you like. It's about having "balls", taking responsibility and being respectful, at work, for your family, children and partner...
Exactly
podcasting while riding motorbike。。。that is awesome！！