MYTH OR FACT: Does More Timing Equal A FASTER CAR? _ 1/4 MILE TEST RUNS
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2021
- In this video we test timing in my RETRO FOX from 8° to 14° to see if it's as much of a benefit as we've always been told.
#moretiming #faster #14°
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So much torque the speaker cover flew off
That B-cam is knocking off speaker covers from all that power ,lol. I always felt like my mustang's ran a little harder with 12-14 degrees of timing. Appreciate the upload brother. 🔥👈
💪😂
@@BREW2LFOXBODY
I am on a budget.. I got a bcam pretty cheap along with a track heat intake.. 24 pound injectors...
I was looking for videos on the trick flow heads.. is there that much of a difference from the 11R heads and the 170s?
They're not that much difference in price.. what cc should you be looking for? How do you know what cc to choose? Thanks for all your help. I just feel you're pretty honest about things.
@@ericbarr6812 For the most power and tq., get the 11R, 53cc heads, and add 1.72 roller rockers, you will be amazed! And yes, the 53cc 11Rs are AWESOME!
@@ericbarr6812can confirm they completely changed my car lol
I love this channel!! All the videos for the most part are educational. Thanks brother! 🤘🙏
I'm simple. I see BREW2L in the driverseat. I click 😎
You definitely bring to light things people want to know about small stuff like this that may give you a slight edge. I must say you do a wonderful job in the making of your videos. Never to old to learn a few things.
Love your channel man i have learned alot from you videos and your knowledge thanks
this is exactly what i want to see from this channel👍👍👍
Love the videos like this keep em coming great content
8 degrees of timing and still blew the speaker grill off! 💪
😂💪
Love the content man, The best most down to earth at the average guys level RUclips channel. Keep up the awesome work👍🏼
Mad respect for you and the content here. AS ALWAYS enjoyed the video 👍🤜
I appreciate you guys!
Bangin gears and showing up all how it’s done brother! 👊🏻
Great video as always. I would have liked to see the same test just making pulls through the same gear like 3rd and measuring the time / acceleration for each timing set up. To eliminate traction or shifting from the equation.
Last run still had the best 60ft. Cracked me up in the beginning when you used the Project Farm line "we're gunna test that".
Love it!!!!!
Thanks bud!
Yeah, most B cam guys I knew ran 4;11 gears since since the cam has a negative effect on low, and lower midrange torque. I always liked the E cam myself. Good vid. I usually stayed concervative and ran 12 degree on my EFI fox to compensate for later timing chain wear and made outer mods. I usually focused on the timing curves on my mechanical advanced carb fox.
I'm waiting for the algorithm to pick this one big time buddy! Great video idea.
Great Video!
Thanks brother
The creativity 👌🏾👌🏾
Good Video!!
Ounces add to lbs at the end of the day. The timing might not do much on its own (stock) but as more and more improvements are made, the more the timing will help. Good stuff as always Brew2l!
Good info
2:50 😂, as a guy who is coming from Hondas and Miata’s I couldn’t help but smile at that time stamp. Reminds me of a pull I did in my 98 ek coupe type r swap. The whole center console flung out. I think a foxbody is going to be a perfect platform for me.
🤣✊
Great little common sense informative test thanks Brew
Good job
Love the retro
Want tons of low end torque? Install an RV camshaft and put in a numerically higher rear end gear along with a performance torque converter.
Think I'm wrong? It will make a BEAST on the streets!
When I bumped the timing up in my ‘96 F150 302 I felt better lowend torque instantly. Not much up top but it is very peppy down low.
Great video! Another thing to consider is that your results are going to vary car to car and day to day depending on weather conditions. I can say for sure my stock engine ‘87 GT (pulleys, headers, mufflers) runs noticeably stronger with the timing at 13 degrees vs. the factory 10 degree setting. Not just at WOT but just driving around.
Exactly
Great time to release a great video I was in the middle of cussing and throwing wrenches working on my fox lol
Lmao I know the feeling!
@@BREW2LFOXBODY It’s all worth it at the end of the day when I here the twins spool up
I did a track video a LONG time ago on my old channel which doesn’t exist anymore. B cam only 5spd 91 hatchback went 14.8 @ 94 in the 1/4 on 10* then bumped it up to 14* and went 14.4 @98mph. The track I was racing at also no longer exists 😂
I think with tires I could really see the difference
That's awesome!!
I'm here brotherman . Been absent for a few uploads. Highly appreciate the effort. I've been meaning to check the timing for awhile but she's running so nice. 300 miles a day with instigators at every li g he. Haha. 2 to 3 times a week for acouole of months now. No hiccups and beasts out at will. You just keep the reality fresh in my mind to stay on top of all the small things. Glad I was free to catch up.
Please forgive my spelling. My vision his vision has been very bad and was actually blind for about 3 months just a few months back and trying to get all this worked out. Some of my texts are not very Lavery legible so bear with me man it's all coming back
Damn! That’s what I’m talking about! They are meant to be driven! 🙌🔥 no problem brother! That’s understandable ! I can’t spell for shit.. lol I’m just thankful for spellcheck
@@BREW2LFOXBODY I'm gonna recoin the old school movie saying.... YOUR MAH BOY BREWWWWW!!!!
And by the way it's my speak text that actually has a Passion for hating me haha
Lol you banged into 2nd gear so hard you knocked off the speaker cover made me laugh so hard
Hey bud I follow all your videos and respect your honesty so Is that the same for the 94 svt cobra seems it’s a upgraded 302 from the fox body I had it rebuilt 30 over new pistons crank decked the heads did some head work exhaust cam and 3.83 gear I advanced my timing a little and it did seem to improve power curve to me what is the best option to get the best out of my cobra in your opinion??
Took her out on the old proving grounds. Certifiable testing process. 😁
Lol exactly!
We just did a similar experiment on a h/c/I sn95 gt on the dyno where I work. It made 280 whp at 14 adv, then made 278 at 10° adv, made 284 whp at 12. For scientific reasons we cranked it up to 18 degrees advanced and lost almost 20hp. I know the sn95 ecu isn't as forgiving as the fox ecus. My fox loves to be set at 12 degrees advanced. From back in the day on 150shot nitrous to today on 10psi boost. I know even with tuning on tweecer and terminator x it's suppose to be locked at 10 but the car just don't respond as well. And that's with 3 different balancers on it over the years.
That’s crazy! Great info
Nice information my man,I wasn't aware of that! Dropping knowledge!👈🔥
Thats a pretty stout sn95
After I wrote this (I was at my other job) I went back to the dyno and looked again and I had the 290 confused with the 08 bullitt I was tuning the next day..I edited my original post. Final numbers were 284hp and 330 torque.
@@Bobby4v oh that sounds better then
Great vid!
I’ve been messing with my timing.
My bone stock vert, (AOD), loved 14°, until I removed the cats and smog.
It’s strange. It started bucking, stumbling, whatever you want to call it, on decel until I went all the way back down to 10°. Makes no sense.
At any rate. What’s the app your using, Dragy?
Thanks my man.
90's Fool Proof Recipe, 180° Therm, 14° timing, K&N filter,
Shorty EQUAL-LENGTH Headers ,Catless H-pie, 2 Chamber Flowmasters, 3.73 w/5spd.
High 12-13.0's ALL DAY
True not science class, but the draggy is a very accurate tool to use if your doing comparison from different cars, or doing small changes to find out differences without going to the track.
Also do like the way the Retro sounds, the B-ca m does sound sweet.
Lol man shifting that T5!
1 of the best parts with a stocker.
I have a stock 88 drop top stock timing 10. No posi. Bumped it to 14 degrees hits posi every time. Every one degree equals 2 and still Cali smog legal.
I run a 91 5.0 roller motor. On carb 3.55. Aod in a 65 falcon. Daily driver 10 yrs on motor. Runs 9.74 in 1/8 all night consistent. After a 60 mile drive to track. Shit im doin pretty good for stockish. Lol thnx for video. No timing light either.
Better times if you run the times on the same road every time.... you'd have a more accurate number if you were able to pull back into the same spot adjust timing and rerun.... in the testing you had to test it on different roads which have different small inclines Etc which play with your times.... but great video and I still got the understanding of what you were showing... I was just pointing out that better off to be on the same stretch repeated every time... that way we know the car is on the same amount of incline or decline get us a more accurate difference on the timing levels..... but I agree with you 14° works well
14* timing was always the first thing we did, in the 90's!!!!!!!!!!!!! btw, I'm AMAZED you adjusted timing WITH sunglasses on lol
What is your opinion on putting a factory HO cam in an Explorer engine with ported GT40Ps and headers? I'm putting it in a 1st gen explorer crawler. 4.88 gears w 35s or 37s depending on what I'm doing.
The ecm controls timing on fule injection ecm looks at pip for crank position then mods it and sends back the timing it wants via spout so u will only hurt performance try it on a carbed engen and you c a huge difference for every degree u change it
20 years ago i had a friend bump my 86gt from 10 to 14° and it made mine run hotter and busted the heater core which resulted in a whole day of work pulling the dash out and back in to put in a new heater core.
I like to say I watch your channel every chance I get , I have a question I have the same timing light do you use the dial to adjust your timing and if you don’t if you could please be so kind to explain to me how do you use that timing light
Thanks! I just zero the knob out and set timing like normal
@@BREW2LFOXBODY ok thx
Does yours have the spout connecter, and did your unplug it each time you did the timing??
Back when I first got my 87 GT AOD car it was slow, and I mean slow! changed the time from 10 deg, to 15 and then ran premium fuel and it made a huge difference in how fun the car was to drive, it still wasn't fast but it was peppy
Maybe off topic, but have you ever discussed which type of fuel is best? Or does it matter? I currently use ethanol free
I have a 86 stock 5.0 and want to check timing no cam etc cai headers axle dumps performer intake someone said start at 10 and got to 12-14 if needed and then others say 20 degrees and fiddle with it there
Me sitting here admiring that beautiful black interior...
Thoughts of the interior after his 8° pull, meh, I'll keep the grey because it certainly rattles less and stays attached.
Initial timing doesn't mean squat. The total timing is what's important, and the only way to determine that is with a "dial-back" timing light.
can bad timing or a tps out of adjustment cause a high idle when it’s at operating temp?
Awesome! That's what I like to see. Timing and more fuel will be more effective on the higher modified engines. Each engine will want something different - the Dragy (I use Track Addict) will help dial that in.
Heard you say the b cam may decrease power. Could you tell me why?
When you installed your sve radiator, did you have to trim the fan blades at all? Cause I just swapped out my radiator and had to trim the fan blades to get the blades to clear the fan shroud.
that would be a good video rear diff clutches I would go with carbon fiber Ford racing clutches very easy no more 1 wheel peel.
I have that same shifter. I dont really like it. I had to loctite the screws and overall just fells stiff.
That hand position though... Up top and with two hands preferably please! Thanks for posting regardless
Dang, I remember the old days with no timing light 😁
Bump it till it rattles then back it down 👌🤣
Yup
And back then people knew how to read plugs
Would love to see this test again with better tires and maybe a gear.
I finally got my 88 - 331 stroker running pretty good, still no tune, idle is erratic until warmup but the car pulls way harder than any other mustang I've had or rode in , especially in 2nd 3rd and 4th
Total noob question.... what are you setting the timing light at? I have the same one. Loving all the the videos!
Slicks, 3:55 gear ,12 degree timing, 2 and a half exhaust engine back and a shorter fan belt to bypass power steering and air pump ,,my best time was 13:73 quarter mile on all stock motor 89 LX 5.0 hatch back
That’s prefer quick..if that was ran back in the day definitely would’ve ate camaros
I'm curious if going from an A9L to an auto A9P computer on a 5 speed would make any difference since I've read that the A9P has a more aggressive tune from the factory to help compensate for the extra power loss from the AOD on take off. Not sure if this is true.
I can tell you seat of pants it’s not noticeable at all. But I have both and we can try them?
Won't matter if it has a maf, wich I think all a9l cars had. can't remember if retro fox is speed density or not, if it's a Maf car the ecu swap will make no difference, it's continuously metering for the tune, thats why speed density cars do not like cams.
The slope wasn’t mentioned, is that the slope of the map or the angle of your road you we’re testing on?
What steering wheel is that? it looks so good in the car
Timing advance is free horsepower until the point of detonation. Then other factors come into play, can your car utilize that horsepower?🤷🏻
Sweet Fox! I wan into these cars big time back in the day.
interesting video, but informative. You mentioned something else that seems to constantly be a debate. CAI worth it or not? I hear these days more ppl saying stock is better, obviously depending on build. But for the most part a HCI combo, is stock better?? I'm running the stock air box with Holley heads, intakes, and Lunati Cam. Brew2l what's your take? LT headers and xpipe. With that combo she dyno'ed 298 rwhp and 309tor.
I run a bbk in fender cai, i cannot speak for peak hp numbers, but whoosh sound it makes is worth it alone, i noticed almost nothing different other then better throttle response and sound with mine, hope this helps
Ah the dreaded speaker grill eject mode. Mine always engages in second gear !!!
😂
When use to write magazine articles about performance improvement. To run 12s in a foxbody was 14 degrees of timing slicks and 4.10 gears. Just add good cam 36lb injectors and head you will run in 11s .ps stock engine top to bottom gears ,slicks turbo or supercharger 14psi you run 10s !
Head or headers? Think 350-370 wheel in a fox with weight reduction would run low 11 upper 10s?
@@TheJMan1K going need cam compression and or force air
What app are you using ?
But the B Cam sounds SO SWEET! I really NEED one.
E or F cam all day
@@Foxbody460 Why do prefer that combo over the B-cam? Just curious?
The b cam is a great stock replacement. But if your doing anything for bigger power, step up to a bigger cam (imo), the E and F have substantially more lift and more duration. Especially the F, but your gonna wana check piston to valve clearance if it's a stocker, I've been told the F cam is too much lift for stock pistons.
I built a 306 to the gills and then some chick smashed me and I sold it to get out of a pickle.
Quite honestly. I am not interested in making big or even more power. I dont want a competitive "RaceCar" not that I wont go to the drag strip or auto cross. I dont street race and I dont have the money or really care about the horsepower game these days. I did it. I want my car to be a driver and reliable. I just want that sound. 😁
Unfortunately. Mine is an 88. Its Speed Density. And I really dont want to deal with the experience in changing to Mass Air. So for now. I'll be leaving it alone. My channel isn't a Foxbody channel. But I do have a couple of videos about my car if you want to check it out.
God I need to get started on my fox, hoping these hard times dry up soon. Haven't been the same since my first, and daily fox was totaled.
Best of wishes brother 🙏
Thank you, same to you bro. Love watching your videos it brings me inspiration and drive not to give up 🙏🤙🏼💪🏼 real talk 🙏
Are you removing your in line spout connector before you set timing each time, maybe you said?
Yes
Ol granny shifting not double clutching like you should. Lol
Did you mention the fuel you're using? I've heard you should be running premium with more aggressive timing.
Always more timing with higher octane. At 14 degrees with 87 compared to 91-93 should make for happier engine
Fuel type is the main player with timing advance!
Great overall... now if it was a 347 would the principle be the same .my break in is set to 8 ° I was thinking 11° total . It's a cruiser not for drag. ? Thanks brew2l
I would still set base @ 10
What RPM are you shifting at?
Have you decided what gear you're going with on the Retro Fox, reason for asking is I've bought a 3.55 gear for my 331 with V1 S-trim, curious of howit wouldfo out on interstate..(built this car to drive as much as possible)
I prefer 355s myself 👌
3:55 is the best overall gear IMO. I’m running a 3:73 in a twin turbo car and it’s too much. In my old Aod vert I loved the 3:55. I actually plan on going back down to a 3:55
I went from a 4.10 to a 3.55 and I'm perfectly happy with it. Good all round gear, and happy on the highway.
I’m running a 3:55 in my fox and the little that I do drive it I love it. I went from a 4:10
You do need to factor in the trans your running. I have 3.73s. I switched to a Z-spec T-5 and it was like going from 3.73s to 3.08s cause of the 2.95 first gear. I want 4.30s now to get my low end back.
Yes. More timing equals more power. Naturally aspirated.
How would the car run at 16 degrees?
Did you pull the SPOUT when you changed the timing ? The PCM will just mitigate any movement you made at the distributor, if you don't.
Yes 👌
@@BREW2LFOXBODY how about the octane shorting bars ?
Just kidding, I don't remember if FoMoCo utilized those on the Mustang, it's been an awful long time since I fiddled with an EEC3/ EEC4, the rust belt is busy killing 2009 models with rust, lol.
What is the app on your phone that you’re using?
It’s the dragy app
Looked like that 14° run you were letting off at the shifts, where you hadn't the other 2 runs. Insert Dom clip here...
The slope on the last one was up hill. The other 2 were slightly down hill.
My 89 doesn’t like 14 degrees it surges at idle so bad that it won’t hardly idle
Same here 👌
So did you keep it at 12? I apologize if you stated that already.
I went to 14
👍🇨🇦
Where can I get that steering wheel lol I need it.
LMR.com
Thank you for the reply! Love your vids! You have been a huge help for my fox hatch. I really appreciate it!
been runnin my stocker on 14 degree for 3 years now..no problems runs faster and sound like a lil bump in the idle. (stock cam lol)....
My engine probably has a lot of build up I’m sure. It doesn’t like much past 12 honestly
@@BREW2LFOXBODY evry fox is different..they kinda have their own personality like us...
sounds like it needs a smaller gear in rearend
Very much so lol
what rpms are you shifting at
No clue lol
@@BREW2LFOXBODY quick question is just me or do stockish foxes and sn95 5.0 fall flat after 4500 rpm
E cam would be better for more of a stock motor
What’s the app called?
Dragy app
Its really not about the initial timing. You need to know what total timing is to really get it. Anyone who has done dyno testing could have told you a couple of degrees wont make much difference in power.