PvP right now you either don't play the game (40 minute queues), don't play the game (look for a group for an hour just to disband after a loss), or don't play the game (watch everyone else have fun while you heal monkeys and hate your life). Sounds awesome
agree,got banned 2 days ago,because salty fat kids with small penises reported me for no reason,in stupid pvp,permanent ban. I wonder how Blizzard cunts do this to long term sub players,without providing proof ,and they calling it support.
I'm a healer, I quit the game. It just feels random, stressful and I just don't feel like I'm actually IN CONTROL when healing compared to other Patches
It's not even controlled chaos, just chaos. Too stressful, rather just one shot all these classes on my Hunter. 2100 rated players don't even use defensives when their healers is in a 3 second silence, Have't seen a single person eat one of my traps. . Stress free as dps. fuck healing, sweat just to carry noobs to ratings they don't belong in.
Same, Healed since Wotlk, But if Blizzard think im going to grind for hours just to push 1400 because of their downsyndrome designed rating system they can politely suck my balls
I play both Healer and Dps, it feels bad on both. If you are DPS, your teammate is all over the damn place, trying to follow who they are on and randomly something dies. As a healer, exactly what you just said, I'm excited for D4 and have been playing Zelda because I need a break from Arena. I'll return when Conquest Boxes return for alts, the converter is up for account wide tier sets and the arena cap is increased so the top players aren't hard stuck at 2400. The game is at it's most fun when you can have multiple characters who are in top tier gear. Here's why, FoM - Why would I play a class that is nerfed to shit when a FoM is owning? Winning is fun, Warcraft is a game, I'd rather have fun then get my ass beat by the over tuned classes.
Hello, healer player here, I quit SoloQ towards the end of Season 1. I'm not claiming these reasons are the same for all healer players but I wouldn't be surprised if many others share some of my concerns. And maybe by fixing these issues we would see a surge of healers come back to the Que. 1. Healer MMR/Rating being calculated with all enemy players in the match: It is very frustrating when a Dps player runs in recklessly, line of sights hard cast heals, is greedy or straight up doesn't use defensive cooldowns, etc. I feel like I'm being punished for no fault of my own. I think the rating and mmr calculation for healers should compare them to each other and not take Dps players into account. For example, if Timmy ran into the enemy team Round 1 and died instantly then the game should take note of that and when the match ends and the rating is calculated, whichever healer adapted to the match should receive higher rating. aka. Did you try using more instant casts instead of hard cast heals since you know Timmy will LoS you? Did you use your defensives on Timmy soon and reactively since you know Timmy would not? Did you keep Timmy alive longer? Etc. 2. Not getting to play the game: This one is simple and Ven has pointed it out before, getting CC'd for 1/4 of a game and not getting to play is not fun, they need to maybe learn from Overwatch again and give healers a buff that reduces all incoming CC durations by 40% (This is for tanks in Overwatch). 3. Broken system: This also applies to Dps players as pointed out in this video but going against higher rated players is no fun. In addition, something that wasn't pointed out in the video is when the opposite happens, I had games where I went against another healer who was -600 my Rating and lost all 6 rounds and received +100 rating while I get +10 for winning every single round, I'm sorry if I sound egotistical but this for me is a literal waste of my time, specially with how stressful matches can be due to points 1 and 2. 4. Underwhelming rewards: I played a few games of healer after they implemented the supposed better rewards for players who que as healer but I literally could not tell the difference. If instead they would give out those satchels that have Augment Runes I would at least have a reason to endure all the above suffering. tl;dr: Healer rating should be Healer v Healer. I don't want to be CC'd for a quarter of the match. I also don't want to waste my time by winning 6 rounds and only gaining 10 rating. And there's no meaningful rewards to endure the stress.
I was in a solo shuffle were I only won 2 rounds, and I lost like 160 rating. A few games later I won 4 and my rating only went up by 6 like wtf is that
As a healer main this season I found m+ is more satisfying when you solve the challenges (hps check/affix/etc.). PvP this season so far is just a torture, I don't feel I'm enjoying even if I won the match.
pvp has always been the most niche content in wow, pvp mains dont like hearing it but literally more people engage in RP than they do pvp lmao, its one of the reasons why it's almost always bad nowadays, because blizzard puts almost 0 work into pvp
The fact that I had a 70% win rate in my first 100 games as healer and was 1650 cr.... when my dps was 1857 from 50 games.... both same MMR last season
I agree that healers are getting the shoet end of the stick here. The healer boxes they provide give 0 incentive to heal. I do it because i enjoy it but for those who dont i cant see that making people want to.
@@eliotness107 Could give me 1000g a match to heal, it has nothing to do with rewards. Healing retards in shuffle is not fun when the damage is unhealable.
Idea for heal incentive, bonus rating, still match them and calculate MMR as normal, but then when outside of match they get a bonus to their rating, give +1 rating for every solo shuffle they finish. so if they do say 200 solo shuffles during a season their rating is the rating they earned + 200. So a medium skilled player gets to 1600mmr, ends up with 1800 rating and the elite stuff unlocked, etc. Maybe a cap on how high the rating can go, but something big an high like that.
I Quit healing this expansion after maining it for 15 years. I think the big problem is too many DPS just blindly tunnel 1 target the entire game and strictly save all their CC and ranged kicks for the healers. Rarely do your DPS teammates stop the cc or dispel or do any type of support for their healer. It's just who can DPS the Chosen Kill Target faster while stun locking the enemy Healer. Then their is the issue of your people that tunnel so hard they LOS their own lifeline healer, then flame the healer for not healing them because by the time the healer was able to be in LOS he's already off CC DR's so the heals just eat another 7-20 seconds of stunlock. Also the Combination of Dampening with Mortal Strikes just nerf your class in half. So if you dont play some instantly healing or shielding or immune to DMG Cool downs your class is basically useless as a healer Healers dont get to play the game while simultaneously be flamed for not being able to play the game.
This literally perfectly sums it up. It always seems to be a dps vs hps race with dps players rarely having any thought to what is happening to their own healer
As a former PvP player who stopped in SL, my biggest gripe in the game is dampening. While dps are always able to pump big numbers throughout the match without slowly getting weaker, healers get weaker over time, and that aspect has personally made it not fun as matches go past 1 or 2 minutes. Im all against the 15 min games, but man it feels shitty to become weaker like 60 seconds into a fight from a healer perspective. This is just my opinion on the matter.
I'm still playing but it's the same for me, one thing i liked from wotlk was mana matters, one way to bring it back could be instead of dampening the healing, increase the mana cost of spells. Obviously this demands a tuning on mana cost, mana regen and spells that make u recover mana, even on BfA monk mana lasted too much and the passive mana regen was insane, 3s of drinking was almost a full recovery, there's something going on with monk mana regen but it's always the same.
Depending is also effecting dps, especially hybrids but its the easiest solution for overall balancing. If depening doesn't exist, you don't want to see the sweaty hardtry EU players avoiding to fight until someone rage quits 🤣
Do y’all think a sudden death that activates at the end of 3 minutes that maybe puts a big crit orb in the center someone could grab to pump. Basically just put other tools in the game like enrage effects or something at the end of a time limit instead of dampening
I tried to play solo shuffle/arenas a couple of times this season as a pvp geared Resto Druid healer and the sheer amount of toxic sludge thrown my way was staggering. I don't know a healer alive not in a premade who's going to wade though that much verbal abuse. And, you guessed it! Most of the time I was up against MW Monks on the other side. I won't go so far as to shout "fuck the ranked PvP community", because I'm well aware this is a systemic issue thanks to Blizzard, but if my experience is even a *fraction* as bad as other people trying to get into solo shuffle, there's no fresh blood going into the pool of potential healers. I know *I'm* not coming back to it. If you want healers to get to 2100+, you need to attract the ones that want to start at 0 and learn. There's no incentive to, y'know, actually learn this season if you get curbed and berated 9 times out of ten because you aren't meta.
Lack of healers is not only in PVP, its also in PvE. No one wants to heal in general, its such a thankless job and as a healer you have so much more responsibility compared to DPS or Tanks.
Since last season, I've been playing each healer spec. Mistweaver has the burst healing and is the only one that can handle most of the damage it seems. Every other healer class. The healing output just isn't enough to do anything.
Blizzard: Absolutely we hear your concerns, how we will resolve this is by nerfing mistweaver in an upcoming class balance tuning! That way every class of healer is equally incapable of healing the massive dmg output! Also we are going to buff boomies and nerf DK again! Problem solved. Enjoy our game.
Dude I’m a Holy Priest from day 1, decided to see what the hype over disc was about two nights ago, and almost instantly got 1800 😂 even the mana of a disc is 10x better than Holy. It feels bad, and not being able to get 2100 like I have every other season actually frustrates me beyond belief
I think a big issue is the role mmr. As a healer you aren't playing a one v one versus the other healer; you are playing against the entire lobby. I think it plays a major role in it being harder to climb as a healer vs as a dps. I understand why they originally did it, but I believe it plays a major role in demoralization when you have a good lobby and go 4-2 or 5-1 but barely gain either rating or mmr. Wondering what others' thoughts are? Thanks for the recent string of videos venruki!
I queue at 1820cr, The DpS are 2100+ and the other healer is 1801cr. Next game still 1820cr, DPS have 1600 rating other healer has 0 rating. Great matchmaking system. Also if I'm healing on my alt and see a Rank 1 dps on my team why would I heal him when he is my mains competition. let that dude lose the rounds he is with me for sure. sucks to suck.
The thing with melee vs wizard representation is that warrior and paladin are two of, if not the 2 most played classes in the game. arms warriors in particularly are one of if not the most represented specs every single season - even when they're mid tier, because a lot of people just like warriors and play them and main them. they make sense right from the get go and people tend to stick to their mains. as a contrast to this, look how low the representation of sub rogue is, despite being probably the best melee paired only with enhancement shamans. the alarm bells ring for me personally when niche, low player presentation specs all of a sudden start appearing out of no where in every single lobby, like enhancement shaman or in the past windwalker and unholy dk. what you need to look at then are peak-ratings of each spec to see their actual power levels. while arms is currently the #2 represented melee, two players in the entire world (yes, TWO) have managed to break 2300 on it in shuffle. Compare this to an extremely niche-by-comparison spec like Boomkin, which has 21 players above 2300 in NA and 22 players above 2300 in EU, and you start to see just how absurd these specs actually are, especially adding onto this the reality that *every* arms warrior above 2k right now has played the spec for 5+ years and has been gladiator or rank 1, where as many if not most of the boomkins above 2k right now made their boomkin this patch, exactly like we saw with ret paladin last patch. No, this is not hyperbole, you can check this information on pvpleaderboard or drustvar. It is insane just how powerful FOTMing is this expansion. I never felt the need to FOTM myself - my warrior has 500+ days played and hundreds of thousands of honourable kills on it, but despite this, I eclipsed my warrior's peak season rating in shuffle in just one afternoon on my boomkin with an 83% winrate at 2k CR / 2100 MMR. We don't need balance changes tomorrow, we needed them two weeks ago - and they need to be sweeping and gamewide, in addition to MMR changes. But to be honest, its too late. They did nothing to the game for over 3 weeks now and Diablo's early access starts 24 hours from the time of this post, by which time the ladder participation will go from dying, to dead.
The problem is the "incentive" for healers are 25% conq and honor which are capped. We need something more 3-3 no rating change 4-2 i gain nothing 2-4 i lose 30pts.
Exactly, I think they need to give resto HOTS a big nice buff and Holy priest as well. Make mending something super rewarding, less time casting non stop huge spells
Making the more fun for healers means, "more time of active game-play". as a long-time-being disc priest, every passing season, the amount of CCs and stuns are so much inflated at a point where i now am literally "watching my screen doing nothing" while other players playing a game more than %50 of my game time. I am literally paying subscription, joining arenas and BGs, just to watch my screen while others play. Either Diminishing returns must be elongated (like 30 secs until the same class of CC can be fully applied instead of 15) or the number of CC in the game has to be decreased. I am not PvPing... And why would i ? to watch my screen while others play ? No. Sorry.
Quit SS due to DPS being oblivious. Then they chastise you because they zugzugged til they died. While you were in CC. As glad I refuse to get glad in SS again. 3s team for me unless something changes. I enjoy healing just not idiots.
I wonder if Ret having all of the random utility saves makes them so good rn. Because healing is stressful and chaotic having another person who can semi stop goes or top teammates is probs hella useful
Many of them are still playing they just said "F this if it's so easy y'all do it, good luck" and swapped to dps. Who could blame them? Blizz now announcing changes to increase healing capabilities for hybrid classes when they're in dps specs to help the healers.
As a Holy Pala that only runs into MW and disc, odds are always stacked against me. They should reward healers with more rating, even when going 3-3. Who cares if it inflates healer ratings a bit. We just want to be able to get achievements. Reward us Blizz!! If the easiest way to get Elite is as a healer, that’s only good for the game! More people will want to play healer then! Stop oppressing us 🥺
On my windwalker at 2kcr i went 3-3 6 lobbys in a row, with a MINIMUM of 30 minute ques in between. 0 rating gained or lost. I only get one day off a week. And that alone cost me half of it. Not worth it simply. Didnt even get conquest cap from it either.
So in the EU, 2100+ bracket there are 485 melee (13 specs) and 759 ranged (12 specs). So from that perspective, it IS a caster-heavy meta. In a perfectly balanced game with equal representation you'd expect about 50 players in each spec, with about 650 melee and 600 ranged (using the numbers for EU 2100+ shuffle). So any spec with
The correct take isn't that MW is overtuned but that other healers are undertuned. The fact that healers have a separate MMR pool and gain only relative to other healers skews the variance so that differences between healers are magnified at the upper end of the distribution. In other words, MW is simply the healer most capable of dealing with the damage output at high rankings. However, because there are so fewer healers at the upper rankings compared to DPS, *all* healers gain less MMR per win, since the available MMR to exchange is smaller while the number of games is the same. Thus the healer MMR pool stagnates and serves to propel DPS into upper rankings. I.E there are two separate pools with different variances being ranked on the same ladder, and healers have fewer opportunities to gain MMR since their calculation ignores DPS MMR permutations.
I played in shadowlands a little bit at least through castle Nathria. Before that I hadn’t played in like 7 years. I decided to try dragon flight and was playing healer but it’s just so frustrating, I feel like I can’t make a single mistake or I lose the match. Meanwhile you have 80% of dps that just line of sights you constantly, doesn’t use half their cooldowns, and I’m just cc’d for 8-10 seconds at a time pretty regularly. Being unable to communicate that ppl need to pop a defensive because if I trinket we just die is incredibly frustrating along with dampening just shitting on my heals so I get weaker as the match goes on and dps keep their power.
as a healer it's a truly ball flattening experience in shuffle when i sweat my ass off for 40+ minutes just to go 3-3 and get +1 rating only because a single dps in the group is wearing lfr gear and has no idea what's going on
Hi! im a Pve player but like your content. Not just onPvP there is 0 incentive to play healer. Also there is a issue that people are thinking that healers are not required for content. Is what i have been feeling on the last 3 weeks. Dont get me wrong some specs like Prevoker or Holy priest for me are nice to play but there is not much reward to do the healing and we have one great responsability in the success or fail of any content.
I played 3 healers at launch. Dpriest, Rshaman, Hpally. I played solo shuffle almost exclusively. I quit in less than 1 month. Mostly because the class designs felt like garbage. All the buffing, prebuffing, procs, rotational stacking of buffs, random cooldown popping from enemies was just insane class design. Shamans had something like 7 abilities that all buffed subsequent heals. The balance looks even worse than it was at the beginning of the xpac so... looks like I made the right choice.
so much work put into these videos and we thank you for that... but who at blizzard is listening? who is the "pvp team"? how many people are on it? what do they do day to day? how do they push changes? who approves their balancing changes? how long does it take devs to push these fixs live? what tools do they use to analyze feedback and activity? i just dont think there is a full time dedicated "pvp team"..... if all 9000 players quit (most ppl have alts.. so lets say its more like 3-5k ppl playing SS) if all 3000 of us quit well 2999 bc i unsubbed for now.. blizzard wouldnt notice a dent in sub revenue. as a business i think it costs more to hire a team of full time pvp devs with a normal six figure salaries than its worth if the 3k remaining players quit. very sad logic and thats my guess whats happening on the business side. its a mini game they wont allocate resources to. AND i think if they actually did a full rework of the pvp system and daily balancing, new rewards new que system (like apex ranked) it could be worth their investment and bring in new players. alll i want is a blog post from blizz answering the questions i asked, establishing transparency of who the "pvp team" and what are each of their roles? people making battlegrounds for next expansion or is is a "ranked pvp team" untill they show their work, its just more minimal bandaid fixes..... i mean 9k players.... / 3 for alts.... look up steam charts.... 3k players is NOTHING. more people probably pet battle in wow
played holy pala for years, it's a shame to see them in their current state, I feel like they've had some strong seasons, but historically they've rarely had dominant periods like Discs, Shams, Druids and now MW.
You know whats fun? A sense of progression. Give the healers more rating. Its absurd that there are no 2400 healers when dps are already above, we are in the same games! Someone said that giving healers more rating will end up with bad healers higher than they should be. Guess what, its exactly the opposite right now, and dps LOVE it. It feels good to get rating. And ppl may discover they actually like healing like i did and switch full time
Can confirm im a healer that has unsubscribed and let my sub lapse in the last week. Im not elite, but I was comfortably playing around 2100 last season. It's just not fun. They need to make all healers like Disc preist were early season one when we had heaps of streamers playing disc. Instead of nerfing that style of healer. We should be moving towards that style of healer with great dmg output and utility.
Ret paladin and prot paladin are so much fun to play in any content that I’m not surprised to see paladins wanting to test the waters in PVP too. They’re noticeably present in PUG PVE and random BG too even though they only ever top meters in cleave/aoe. Just really good class design for both and they’ll probably have high representation all through the expansion.
The problem for holy paladin is that priests are a hard counter. Throw in the high representation of ret pallies who share same forbearance debuff, holy paladin just can't catch a break.
The most annoying thing a DPS can do to a healer is flame them after their healer gave their entire mana bar and toolkit over a 3-4 mins in to heavy dampening to try and save their team while said DPS stood in the open the whole time, didn't even try to prevent the enemy DPS and healer CC'ing their healer and only popped their wall at sub 20% health and proceeds to scream at their healer.
The worst thing you can do in a solo shuffle is read your chat box. I don't read chat at all, and I don't participate in it. Keeps me safe from toxicity and keeps me from getting banned/muted. Blizzard created this environment, I just work around it.
Or when you look at Details after a 4-5 min game of keeping your mage alive, only to find he used poly a total of 1 time, and counterspelled 0 times...
Idea for heal incentive, bonus rating, still match them and calculate MMR as normal, but then when outside of match they get a bonus to their rating, give +1 rating for every solo shuffle they finish. so if they do say 200 solo shuffles during a season their rating is the rating they earned + 200. So a medium skilled player gets to 1600mmr, ends up with 1800 rating and the elite stuff unlocked, etc. Maybe a cap on how high the rating can go, but something big an high like that.
Dampening needs to start lower or not go up as quick or something in 2s and 3s. I get SS but why am I at 30% dampening 1 min into the game in 2s? Add a warrior Sharpen Blade or ANY MS and you’re healing is cucked from the gate
@@ziggs123 That will not be the case if damage is properly tuned and losing 2 out of the 5 fking defensive abilties some classes have is not dumbing down the game. There's a reason why rogues now have 2 shadowdance, shadowblade and secret technique, it's to combat all the shit load of random defensives and micro cc
@@Zaete Okay, the pvp will continue you die, players will continue to cry about bandaid fixes like precog being in the game because the core design is flawed.
I tried. I did. Put in over 400 rounds as a resto shaman. Im hard stuck at 1500 and keep getting matched against glads and R1s. Everytime I break 1600 I get knocked back down lmao.
I’m a healer and I’ve stopped playing because in the first season I spent weeks grinding rating and couldn’t breach 1700 even though I managed to get 2k every season before. So this season I’m just gonna wait until this inflation kicks in because otherwise I’d be winning 5 in a row and getting 10 rating only to lose once and have 100 rating taken from me. It’s beyond infuriating but at least I can chill and do pve and circumvent the whole issue. On the other hand the dps players do not have such a luxury I guess
Thanks for this video Venru. I'm a Resto heal, osciallting between 1800 - 2200 max rating but honestly since dragon flight healing has been nothing fun for resto. I feel like I'm always bursting heal all the time with 0 time to My other heal character is Holy priest and while it's never been ultra good in Arena, I did some good ratings back then. Dragonflight really killed the healing capacity imo, they need to balance healing for pvp a bit more. Give resto some nice buff ffs. Fucking blizzard
I was playing healer in solo shuffle but you rarely get any rating. Most of the time you play 3:3 because one dd wins 0 or all 6 matches. Unless enemy healer has a mental breakdown you dont win more than 3. Its just 0 fun. Even if you win 4 out of nowhere. You still get 0. Or if you are lucky enough you might get upto 4 rating. BUT if you only win 2 matches because the warrior just jumps behind pillar as a warrior should do and gets trained you will lose 60 rating. Blizzard knows how to keep healer in line. With season 2 i quit pvp and i try myself in pve for the first time in 8 years.
One of the major issues is when the DPS makes a mistake it can typically be overcome when the healer makes a mistake it typically leads to a death and then it's all the healers fault...I've played for a long time and will cover for multiple miscues then a DPS runs one way while I'm moving another and when I try to get los to heal I get cc'd and then the "there healers way better" when I did more healing and damage mitigation, just not worth being talked down too
As a healer its just not worth it anymore, like in PVP u never really want to fail your team, especially if they are good cause your opponents are just whew. In PVE you cant carry anyone that doesnt belong there in high end content, which is fine in 25+ but in 17-18's.
I always appreciate your wisdom EV. I don’t even know/care what solo shuffle is and I resubbed in January Priest/Shaman/Paladin. (I know what it is, but I’ve never wanted to play it as a healer.)
If they gave like 250-500g for playing a full solo shuffle instead of the useless “combat medics box” or whatever I would que heals all day but there is no incentive after capping
Played every single healer to 2000+ last season. I quit the game. The ONLY thing that will alleviate the healer issue is rewarding gameplay, not gold/rewards.
Non-MW healer here: I don't want to queue, it is basically exactly how you describe it. When I see MW in the lobby I know I'm going to lose. No thanks.
As a Frost DK main, we need a lot of love. Situation of dks is just sad. very sad to believe locks mages and druids keep getting rework before the outdated dks
I'm a MW monk main, I was 2350 last season and now I'm stuck at 1800. Ever single match I fought yesterday had 2700+ healers, most had the rank 1 mount for various seasons, its so demoralising fighting against people which shouldn't be at 1800. I quit yesterday after going down to 1680. So 1 less healer for you guys!
people don't understand how MMR works, the larger the pool, the higher the theoretical ceiling as the higher the chance of outliers. Because there are less healers (normalised) proportionate to dps, they will have a lower ceiling. As much as people believe solo shuffle measures skill, actually elo in this instance isn't working with statistically significant samples, what you're seeing at the top end is a lot to do with luck and circumstance as much as skill. To give a simple example, a sample of 100 players (healers) vs 1000 players (dps) the small sample is less likely to have, by chance, had someone score 20 straight wins vs the larger sample. Outliers (your 2400s and your 800s) increase with sample size. Elo is self-correcting so outliers become less of a measure of chance over time, but we are early in the season at present. One way to normalise it would be a system where elo is measured role-agnostic... Or you just bin the system entirely! Elo is great for 1v1 like Chess and ok for team-based pursuits, but for an individual queuing into a team match, it makes no sense, Blizz tried to help address the problem by the rotation system within each game, but it just doesn't fit the game mode.
I WANT to heal, the problem is I dont want to do it on a MW and it seems like I am beating my head against the wall on my druid anytime you go against a MW/Disc. Blizzard needs to up tune the other healing specs so more people will play them. As of now, the game is down one main pvp healer because I refuse to do it on a MW. I can't be the only one.
So many of my wow friends told me they stopped completely playing rated pvp now becasue they know they cant get anywhere. And less and less people playing has a domino effect, so even less people will play. I cant even find any partners right now, its liek really hard to find some people for rated. You basically need to que shuffle but even there you wait 40 mins. I absolutely agree with Ven on all of his vids about this topic. Also i healed since i started seriously with Arenas end of BFA and ALL of SL and when DF came out i realized that healing wasnt the same anymore it got exponential harder and it felt like healers were extremely weak for some reason. I think its the fact that in SL dps did only dmg with their "GOs" but in DF blizz changed that to Dmg with Cds AND consistent dmg, which is a good thing, but Healers didnt improve at all to compensate, also the added damp in every bracket and in solo its obviosuly way faster with damp, which again isnt a bad thing but you get the point healers got worse this Xpac becasue of many factors. SO its not only way harder to heal, in some gamemodes like for example shuffle its also extra pain with faster damp and people doing random crap like lining you or not pressing defensives or bad positioning etc. So WHY in hell would you ever prefer to heal in DF? I actually lvld DPS classes and have WAY more fun on them, sure i wait longer for shuffles but at least its not a pain in the A**. I dont know what blizzard needs to do but there has to be something. I agree with all the balance stuff, classes need to be balanced and also the rating cap is extremely bad for the pvp game etc. There are many topics that need to get fixed.
Not only arena but also in rated battlegrounds mistweaver monk is by far the best healer. It's so frustrating for other healers when mw is so overtuned.
Tell that to every pve mistweaver that gets shafted basically everywhere else. Their literal only strength atm is pvp healing. Without that it's close to a dead spec. He'll if it wasn't for brewmaster tank or mw pvp it'd be a dead class.
@@SkagulTV what's the representation you see in general for MW? just overall? in raid they're pretty decent once you have the other major specs. and that's only as a 4th that nearly any healer can fill. In heroic basically any healer works so long as they have comfort on that spec. Doesn't mean it's objectively better. In m+? what do they bring that shaman doesn't plus some? Or really any other healer for that matter. well maybe beats out holy priest . . . and that's a maybe. even those are nearly 3 times the representation for 20+ keys. MW has no lust, no battle res, it's utility is something most other healers have something similar to. Plus they tend to also have more on top of that. It's punished whenever melee mechanics force you out for any lengthy amount of time. Revival isn't really even a cooldown outside a few very niche scenarios. It has good throughput when given prep time, and good uptime in melee to maintain HoT's with rising mist. but the other healers can do similar if not better in some instances and not reliant on rising sun kick to extend HoT's in some of those scenarios. It's overall just weaker than any of the others by what it offers outside of throughput.
MW arent broken, they're the only healer that can come close to handling the meta. MW representation is not the problem, the other healer specs are just trash, and as shown, no MW Monks above 2400, speaks volumes. Knowing blizzard though, yeah, they'll nerf MW to make it just as useless as Druid / shaman before buffing the other healer specs to where they should be.
I'm sorry I trolled too hard about the goldie locks subscription zone when I was telling the devs their game has like 2 weeks of content. How to get every elite set for an expec with minimal subs > Farm Gold for 3 wow tokens >Gear at start of expac > push a bit >unsub > resub last week, > Catchup mechanics > Inflated rating push > New season starts > push w1 for elite set > Unsub > repeat end of S2 Start of S3 and again for S3-S4! Why would I pay to have my time wasted by GAME DESIGN? For the intrinsic fun? Bro I can play Blade & Sorcery and rip people's hearts out of their chest and eat them, I can decapitate them, disembowel them, gravity jump through the air, deflect fire balls, force choke people, break necks, and crush skulls with telekinesis then force feed their brain to one of their comrades. How is point clicking suppose to compete with that for INTRENSIC fun? You're not competing with Everquest 2 or a modern wow clone for my attention you're competing with things that are actually INNOVATIVE not just marketed as innovative. Like I could pay a modder to make the Blizzard campus a map in Blade and Sorcery, then I could take audio clips of dev interviews and tie them to the Blade & Sorcery mobs voice lines, and just cover the "All voices matter statue" in virtual blood. Theres one spell called lashings that lets you stick objects to others I'd hang a bunch of decapitated heads from the statue xD! Devs got mad :(!!! They're upset people are able to get rewards with minimal sub time and engagement with the game. If you want me to stay subbed make actual content for me to do lelelelelelel. Ranked 1v1s, FFAs, Battle royals, ENFOS, Wave Defense, random themed bg's (Skroggs verse murlocs, illdians vs arthases). Regardless of what they think or the reality is, from my perspective I see 0 creativity 0 effort put into keeping the PvP scene fresh and providing varied experiences. It seems like it's more a system designed to rope you into to racking up hours and it heavily pressures you to engage with parts of the game you don't want to. IE Tier sets. Why GAMBLE my time for RNG vault drops, when I can just resub and get all the upgrades. I'm not going to raid I think that's super cringey culty and toxic I also don't want to give the devs the satisfaction of that manipualted engagement metric.
We're not queueing because the dps is refusing to use their defencives, or just straight up bubbles/walls first CD to do dmg. Then line of sights us and refuses to peel/stop cc and they die and flame us. Then we go 3-3 / 4-2 or 2-4 and get zero rating.
Not to be that guy, but all I do is queue heals (pally, shaman, monk, priest, druid) for solo. All floating around 1k - 1.2k I get a match under two minutes every time, sometimes only takes a second. I will say, monks do feel amazing right now. You’re right, if they don’t go for me, I’ll easily double the heal output of whomever I’m playing against.
This is my solo shuffle experience in a nutshell. Ret pally runs straight to other side of arena and dies instantly. Asks why I didn't heal. Me and the lock that killed him at the same time say "you over extended". He proceeds to stand there in the rest of the matches when im on his team. I lose rating, he gains rating. Why would I waste hours of my time when one dps can troll me that hard.
As a healer main I despise solo shuffle. And almost always refuse to play solo shuffle as a healer. People are way too toxic and blame you for everything makes me not even want to try. I'm better off playing 2v2 or 3v3 with my friends or guild mates where we actually try to improve instead of flaming each other. I have been lucky in a couple solo shuffles where ppl talk and give advice or try to win as a team but 90% that's not the case. And it also makes getting to higher rating extremely difficult when you consistently go 3 for 3. Usually because one DPS is deemed the 'weakest' link. Also doesn't help when a lot of the times you only got 1 or 2 DPS players in the lobby that help CC or peel. And when those 2 DPS play together you know you're going to win that round or lose depending.
In the screenshot the priest had an mmr that is 281 higher than the pally. A player with a 281 rating advantage should have an 84% win ratio vs the lower rated player. The priest only won 80% of his games, hence no mmr increase. At least, that's what should happen with the original ELO system, don't know what blizzard's system does.
this seems like a relatively easy fix. 3 dps queue's, lower damage done by about 50% so its not so dang bursty without a healer. or have an AI healer for queues with no healer. could set these settings to people under 2200, and at higher ratings remove the AI so its all about people.
I used to main FDK, now I just don't play. But THANK YOU! Flarkness here on YT can tell anyone what DKs need, better than anyone else I've seen. The others quit playing DK altogether.
Me once every expansion: i want to learn to heal Learning to heal: 5000000 adons, complete key rebinding, and everyone flaming me in low level dungeons while I try to learn
@8:04 IMO that's probably not the sole reason - look at the overall cr and mmr Priest is highest cr/mmr in lobby Hpal had his first game that lobby @ 0 cr and default 1500 mmr Any loss PERIOD because you obviously never q with the other healer as a healer, means that if/when you lose 1 game to that person with NO cr/Default mmr, you would theoretically lose a cosmic fuckton of cr/mmr because you've just lost to someone with "no" xp (cr) ADDITIONALLY- it looks as if the priests mmr/cr has somehow gone stagant (this isn't a mystery, its actually very simple to diagnose) you go 3/3 , 3 times in a row, and your mmr and cr will be the same - this is where people claim they've gotten stuck. It takes a perfect game to climb out of that, and if you underperform in the following game, then you will lose cr and mmr and be stuck back in the same boat. it's a shitty broken system that IMO the majority are only still using because it's far easier to get rating in SS than it is in the regular 3s bracket. This isn't rocket science and it makes me sick that a company that makes so many hundreds of millions of dollars can't write a simple algorithm that anyone with a fucking mathematic minor could write. Rant over.
I’m 1800 on enhance. I literally spent hundreds of games trying to push rating and even going 3/3 or 3/4 I gain little to no rating and the MMR is so low that if I lose even 1 game I lose all progress from the 2 maybe even 3 games.
Dampening needs an overhaul. How would you feel if you did less and less damage as the game goes on? They need to rethink it entirely, maybe test reducing manapool instead, or reducing everyone's healthpool until someone gets oneshot. But having your teammembers dying because your heals that normally heal them for half their health suddenly do 2% healing after 5 minutes is just not fun to play, and the only one that feels that effect is the healer.
This season is just plain bad. The Tier sets are boring and suck, the MMR issue means most players aren't even playing the game because whats the point? and the balancing is just absolutely whack
I’m not a magnificent player and while I appreciate the quick queues as a healer but there’s something about having extremely sweating games in the 1600 bracket to barely get any rating that just isn’t fun.
i played a bit in season 1 has holy paladin and coming from a guy that didnt played retail seriously since cata it took me 3 games in solo shuffle to notice no matter how hard a tried a resto druid would just outplay me in any situation, and considering the time needed by blizzard to balance the game i founded it way easier to just quit
I find it funny how people pretend finding a healer was ever easy to begin. Doing pugs i could easily take over 1 hour to find a suitable healer for 1700+ games. 40 minutes? it improved.
Please keep pushing this issue
Agree
🤣
PvP right now you either don't play the game (40 minute queues), don't play the game (look for a group for an hour just to disband after a loss), or don't play the game (watch everyone else have fun while you heal monkeys and hate your life).
Sounds awesome
This comment is genius. You’re absolutely right!
feels
agree,got banned 2 days ago,because salty fat kids with small penises reported me for no reason,in stupid pvp,permanent ban.
I wonder how Blizzard cunts do this to long term sub players,without providing proof ,and they calling it support.
I'm a healer, I quit the game. It just feels random, stressful and I just don't feel like I'm actually IN CONTROL when healing compared to other Patches
It's not even controlled chaos, just chaos. Too stressful, rather just one shot all these classes on my Hunter. 2100 rated players don't even use defensives when their healers is in a 3 second silence, Have't seen a single person eat one of my traps. . Stress free as dps. fuck healing, sweat just to carry noobs to ratings they don't belong in.
#make rmp great again
Same, Healed since Wotlk, But if Blizzard think im going to grind for hours just to push 1400 because of their downsyndrome designed rating system they can politely suck my balls
I play both Healer and Dps, it feels bad on both. If you are DPS, your teammate is all over the damn place, trying to follow who they are on and randomly something dies. As a healer, exactly what you just said, I'm excited for D4 and have been playing Zelda because I need a break from Arena. I'll return when Conquest Boxes return for alts, the converter is up for account wide tier sets and the arena cap is increased so the top players aren't hard stuck at 2400. The game is at it's most fun when you can have multiple characters who are in top tier gear. Here's why, FoM - Why would I play a class that is nerfed to shit when a FoM is owning? Winning is fun, Warcraft is a game, I'd rather have fun then get my ass beat by the over tuned classes.
This is the issue. The damage creep over the years has become insane. Less skill expression more randomly getting globaled.
Classes have so many heals, mobility, cc, defensives, bubbles, etc that it's just not fun to heal
Hello, healer player here, I quit SoloQ towards the end of Season 1. I'm not claiming these reasons are the same for all healer players but I wouldn't be surprised if many others share some of my concerns. And maybe by fixing these issues we would see a surge of healers come back to the Que.
1. Healer MMR/Rating being calculated with all enemy players in the match: It is very frustrating when a Dps player runs in recklessly, line of sights hard cast heals, is greedy or straight up doesn't use defensive cooldowns, etc. I feel like I'm being punished for no fault of my own. I think the rating and mmr calculation for healers should compare them to each other and not take Dps players into account. For example, if Timmy ran into the enemy team Round 1 and died instantly then the game should take note of that and when the match ends and the rating is calculated, whichever healer adapted to the match should receive higher rating. aka. Did you try using more instant casts instead of hard cast heals since you know Timmy will LoS you? Did you use your defensives on Timmy soon and reactively since you know Timmy would not? Did you keep Timmy alive longer? Etc.
2. Not getting to play the game: This one is simple and Ven has pointed it out before, getting CC'd for 1/4 of a game and not getting to play is not fun, they need to maybe learn from Overwatch again and give healers a buff that reduces all incoming CC durations by 40% (This is for tanks in Overwatch).
3. Broken system: This also applies to Dps players as pointed out in this video but going against higher rated players is no fun. In addition, something that wasn't pointed out in the video is when the opposite happens, I had games where I went against another healer who was -600 my Rating and lost all 6 rounds and received +100 rating while I get +10 for winning every single round, I'm sorry if I sound egotistical but this for me is a literal waste of my time, specially with how stressful matches can be due to points 1 and 2.
4. Underwhelming rewards: I played a few games of healer after they implemented the supposed better rewards for players who que as healer but I literally could not tell the difference. If instead they would give out those satchels that have Augment Runes I would at least have a reason to endure all the above suffering.
tl;dr: Healer rating should be Healer v Healer. I don't want to be CC'd for a quarter of the match. I also don't want to waste my time by winning 6 rounds and only gaining 10 rating. And there's no meaningful rewards to endure the stress.
I was in a solo shuffle were I only won 2 rounds, and I lost like 160 rating. A few games later I won 4 and my rating only went up by 6 like wtf is that
Same
As a healer main this season I found m+ is more satisfying when you solve the challenges (hps check/affix/etc.). PvP this season so far is just a torture, I don't feel I'm enjoying even if I won the match.
as a pve player and main healer, i never like pvp, for me it is just the thing to do when i dont have nothing more to do,
pvp has always been the most niche content in wow, pvp mains dont like hearing it but literally more people engage in RP than they do pvp lmao, its one of the reasons why it's almost always bad nowadays, because blizzard puts almost 0 work into pvp
The fact that I had a 70% win rate in my first 100 games as healer and was 1650 cr.... when my dps was 1857 from 50 games.... both same MMR last season
I agree that healers are getting the shoet end of the stick here. The healer boxes they provide give 0 incentive to heal. I do it because i enjoy it but for those who dont i cant see that making people want to.
When i qued solo last week on my healer and got the box, i started laughing because it contained ONE mark of honor! Hahahaha, i stopped queing
@@eliotness107 Could give me 1000g a match to heal, it has nothing to do with rewards. Healing retards in shuffle is not fun when the damage is unhealable.
Idea for heal incentive, bonus rating, still match them and calculate MMR as normal, but then when outside of match they get a bonus to their rating, give +1 rating for every solo shuffle they finish. so if they do say 200 solo shuffles during a season their rating is the rating they earned + 200. So a medium skilled player gets to 1600mmr, ends up with 1800 rating and the elite stuff unlocked, etc. Maybe a cap on how high the rating can go, but something big an high like that.
I Quit healing this expansion after maining it for 15 years. I think the big problem is too many DPS just blindly tunnel 1 target the entire game and strictly save all their CC and ranged kicks for the healers. Rarely do your DPS teammates stop the cc or dispel or do any type of support for their healer. It's just who can DPS the Chosen Kill Target faster while stun locking the enemy Healer.
Then their is the issue of your people that tunnel so hard they LOS their own lifeline healer, then flame the healer for not healing them because by the time the healer was able to be in LOS he's already off CC DR's so the heals just eat another 7-20 seconds of stunlock.
Also the Combination of Dampening with Mortal Strikes just nerf your class in half. So if you dont play some instantly healing or shielding or immune to DMG Cool downs your class is basically useless as a healer
Healers dont get to play the game while simultaneously be flamed for not being able to play the game.
This literally perfectly sums it up. It always seems to be a dps vs hps race with dps players rarely having any thought to what is happening to their own healer
As a former PvP player who stopped in SL, my biggest gripe in the game is dampening. While dps are always able to pump big numbers throughout the match without slowly getting weaker, healers get weaker over time, and that aspect has personally made it not fun as matches go past 1 or 2 minutes. Im all against the 15 min games, but man it feels shitty to become weaker like 60 seconds into a fight from a healer perspective. This is just my opinion on the matter.
I'm still playing but it's the same for me, one thing i liked from wotlk was mana matters, one way to bring it back could be instead of dampening the healing, increase the mana cost of spells. Obviously this demands a tuning on mana cost, mana regen and spells that make u recover mana, even on BfA monk mana lasted too much and the passive mana regen was insane, 3s of drinking was almost a full recovery, there's something going on with monk mana regen but it's always the same.
W take, dampening only makes game feel shittier for healers, doesnt effect dps as much.
Depending is also effecting dps, especially hybrids but its the easiest solution for overall balancing. If depening doesn't exist, you don't want to see the sweaty hardtry EU players avoiding to fight until someone rage quits 🤣
They need to remove dampening and balance accordingly. Ooming should be the dampening
Do y’all think a sudden death that activates at the end of 3 minutes that maybe puts a big crit orb in the center someone could grab to pump. Basically just put other tools in the game like enrage effects or something at the end of a time limit instead of dampening
I tried to play solo shuffle/arenas a couple of times this season as a pvp geared Resto Druid healer and the sheer amount of toxic sludge thrown my way was staggering. I don't know a healer alive not in a premade who's going to wade though that much verbal abuse. And, you guessed it! Most of the time I was up against MW Monks on the other side. I won't go so far as to shout "fuck the ranked PvP community", because I'm well aware this is a systemic issue thanks to Blizzard, but if my experience is even a *fraction* as bad as other people trying to get into solo shuffle, there's no fresh blood going into the pool of potential healers. I know *I'm* not coming back to it. If you want healers to get to 2100+, you need to attract the ones that want to start at 0 and learn. There's no incentive to, y'know, actually learn this season if you get curbed and berated 9 times out of ten because you aren't meta.
i hate meta, fuck up the meta, and you are right, pvp ranking comunity is more toxic than League of legends
Lack of healers is not only in PVP, its also in PvE. No one wants to heal in general, its such a thankless job and as a healer you have so much more responsibility compared to DPS or Tanks.
Since last season, I've been playing each healer spec. Mistweaver has the burst healing and is the only one that can handle most of the damage it seems. Every other healer class. The healing output just isn't enough to do anything.
Exactly
Blizzard: Absolutely we hear your concerns, how we will resolve this is by nerfing mistweaver in an upcoming class balance tuning! That way every class of healer is equally incapable of healing the massive dmg output! Also we are going to buff boomies and nerf DK again! Problem solved. Enjoy our game.
Agreed! Can’t compete with the healing and mobility they have currently.
Dude I’m a Holy Priest from day 1, decided to see what the hype over disc was about two nights ago, and almost instantly got 1800 😂 even the mana of a disc is 10x better than Holy. It feels bad, and not being able to get 2100 like I have every other season actually frustrates me beyond belief
I think a big issue is the role mmr. As a healer you aren't playing a one v one versus the other healer; you are playing against the entire lobby. I think it plays a major role in it being harder to climb as a healer vs as a dps. I understand why they originally did it, but I believe it plays a major role in demoralization when you have a good lobby and go 4-2 or 5-1 but barely gain either rating or mmr. Wondering what others' thoughts are? Thanks for the recent string of videos venruki!
I queue at 1820cr, The DpS are 2100+ and the other healer is 1801cr. Next game still 1820cr, DPS have 1600 rating other healer has 0 rating. Great matchmaking system. Also if I'm healing on my alt and see a Rank 1 dps on my team why would I heal him when he is my mains competition. let that dude lose the rounds he is with me for sure. sucks to suck.
The thing with melee vs wizard representation is that warrior and paladin are two of, if not the 2 most played classes in the game. arms warriors in particularly are one of if not the most represented specs every single season - even when they're mid tier, because a lot of people just like warriors and play them and main them. they make sense right from the get go and people tend to stick to their mains. as a contrast to this, look how low the representation of sub rogue is, despite being probably the best melee paired only with enhancement shamans.
the alarm bells ring for me personally when niche, low player presentation specs all of a sudden start appearing out of no where in every single lobby, like enhancement shaman or in the past windwalker and unholy dk.
what you need to look at then are peak-ratings of each spec to see their actual power levels. while arms is currently the #2 represented melee, two players in the entire world (yes, TWO) have managed to break 2300 on it in shuffle. Compare this to an extremely niche-by-comparison spec like Boomkin, which has 21 players above 2300 in NA and 22 players above 2300 in EU, and you start to see just how absurd these specs actually are, especially adding onto this the reality that *every* arms warrior above 2k right now has played the spec for 5+ years and has been gladiator or rank 1, where as many if not most of the boomkins above 2k right now made their boomkin this patch, exactly like we saw with ret paladin last patch.
No, this is not hyperbole, you can check this information on pvpleaderboard or drustvar. It is insane just how powerful FOTMing is this expansion. I never felt the need to FOTM myself - my warrior has 500+ days played and hundreds of thousands of honourable kills on it, but despite this, I eclipsed my warrior's peak season rating in shuffle in just one afternoon on my boomkin with an 83% winrate at 2k CR / 2100 MMR.
We don't need balance changes tomorrow, we needed them two weeks ago - and they need to be sweeping and gamewide, in addition to MMR changes. But to be honest, its too late. They did nothing to the game for over 3 weeks now and Diablo's early access starts 24 hours from the time of this post, by which time the ladder participation will go from dying, to dead.
So basically the correct blizzard response to your statement will be this.
Blizzard: buff boomies and nerf DKs again!
The problem is the "incentive" for healers are 25% conq and honor which are capped. We need something more 3-3 no rating change 4-2 i gain nothing 2-4 i lose 30pts.
Don’t nerf MW; BUFF all the underperforming heals ❤
Exactly, I think they need to give resto HOTS a big nice buff and Holy priest as well.
Make mending something super rewarding, less time casting non stop huge spells
They already nerfd it I get trained now as caster mw. Or ccd and can't heal plus they nerfed rss so it takes longer to cap.
Well. Agree on that. But make cocoun not on so short CD
I’d rather they nerf mistweaver and buff Hpal instead of buffing all healers
Making the more fun for healers means, "more time of active game-play". as a long-time-being disc priest, every passing season, the amount of CCs and stuns are so much inflated at a point where i now am literally "watching my screen doing nothing" while other players playing a game more than %50 of my game time. I am literally paying subscription, joining arenas and BGs, just to watch my screen while others play. Either Diminishing returns must be elongated (like 30 secs until the same class of CC can be fully applied instead of 15) or the number of CC in the game has to be decreased. I am not PvPing... And why would i ? to watch my screen while others play ? No. Sorry.
Quit SS due to DPS being oblivious. Then they chastise you because they zugzugged til they died. While you were in CC. As glad I refuse to get glad in SS again. 3s team for me unless something changes. I enjoy healing just not idiots.
Hey think of it this way; if you develop like a shame/chastise kink then SS becomes great when you're a healer.
I wonder if Ret having all of the random utility saves makes them so good rn. Because healing is stressful and chaotic having another person who can semi stop goes or top teammates is probs hella useful
Yes. Blizzard is going all in on hybrid healing in 10.1.5 with the goal to make tripple dps a viable comp
Many of them are still playing they just said "F this if it's so easy y'all do it, good luck" and swapped to dps. Who could blame them?
Blizz now announcing changes to increase healing capabilities for hybrid classes when they're in dps specs to help the healers.
Not to help them. To replace them. Tripple dps is coming, healers can do world pvp and complain there
As a Holy Pala that only runs into MW and disc, odds are always stacked against me. They should reward healers with more rating, even when going 3-3. Who cares if it inflates healer ratings a bit. We just want to be able to get achievements. Reward us Blizz!! If the easiest way to get Elite is as a healer, that’s only good for the game! More people will want to play healer then! Stop oppressing us 🥺
On my windwalker at 2kcr i went 3-3 6 lobbys in a row, with a MINIMUM of 30 minute ques in between. 0 rating gained or lost. I only get one day off a week. And that alone cost me half of it. Not worth it simply. Didnt even get conquest cap from it either.
So in the EU, 2100+ bracket there are 485 melee (13 specs) and 759 ranged (12 specs). So from that perspective, it IS a caster-heavy meta. In a perfectly balanced game with equal representation you'd expect about 50 players in each spec, with about 650 melee and 600 ranged (using the numbers for EU 2100+ shuffle). So any spec with
The correct take isn't that MW is overtuned but that other healers are undertuned. The fact that healers have a separate MMR pool and gain only relative to other healers skews the variance so that differences between healers are magnified at the upper end of the distribution. In other words, MW is simply the healer most capable of dealing with the damage output at high rankings. However, because there are so fewer healers at the upper rankings compared to DPS, *all* healers gain less MMR per win, since the available MMR to exchange is smaller while the number of games is the same. Thus the healer MMR pool stagnates and serves to propel DPS into upper rankings. I.E there are two separate pools with different variances being ranked on the same ladder, and healers have fewer opportunities to gain MMR since their calculation ignores DPS MMR permutations.
Yes, brilliantly explained. If only healers were included in the same MMR as the people they are playing with. Wont happen, makes way to much sense.
Monk healing is way better than the other classes currently. That’s a fact, along with other MMR issues.
EXACTLY what I've been saying too about Monk, the solution isn't to NERF Monk, it's to make other healers just as powerful.
"They heal forever, until they're oom"
-Venruki 2023
I played in shadowlands a little bit at least through castle Nathria. Before that I hadn’t played in like 7 years. I decided to try dragon flight and was playing healer but it’s just so frustrating, I feel like I can’t make a single mistake or I lose the match. Meanwhile you have 80% of dps that just line of sights you constantly, doesn’t use half their cooldowns, and I’m just cc’d for 8-10 seconds at a time pretty regularly. Being unable to communicate that ppl need to pop a defensive because if I trinket we just die is incredibly frustrating along with dampening just shitting on my heals so I get weaker as the match goes on and dps keep their power.
as a healer it's a truly ball flattening experience in shuffle when i sweat my ass off for 40+ minutes just to go 3-3 and get +1 rating only because a single dps in the group is wearing lfr gear and has no idea what's going on
I healed like 60 solo shuffle rounds, and pretty much only lost mmr/rating after my placements. Stopped playing because I was getting shit on.
Hi! im a Pve player but like your content. Not just onPvP there is 0 incentive to play healer. Also there is a issue that people are thinking that healers are not required for content. Is what i have been feeling on the last 3 weeks. Dont get me wrong some specs like Prevoker or Holy priest for me are nice to play but there is not much reward to do the healing and we have one great responsability in the success or fail of any content.
I played 3 healers at launch. Dpriest, Rshaman, Hpally. I played solo shuffle almost exclusively. I quit in less than 1 month. Mostly because the class designs felt like garbage. All the buffing, prebuffing, procs, rotational stacking of buffs, random cooldown popping from enemies was just insane class design. Shamans had something like 7 abilities that all buffed subsequent heals.
The balance looks even worse than it was at the beginning of the xpac so... looks like I made the right choice.
so much work put into these videos and we thank you for that... but who at blizzard is listening? who is the "pvp team"? how many people are on it? what do they do day to day? how do they push changes? who approves their balancing changes? how long does it take devs to push these fixs live? what tools do they use to analyze feedback and activity?
i just dont think there is a full time dedicated "pvp team"..... if all 9000 players quit (most ppl have alts.. so lets say its more like 3-5k ppl playing SS) if all 3000 of us quit well 2999 bc i unsubbed for now.. blizzard wouldnt notice a dent in sub revenue.
as a business i think it costs more to hire a team of full time pvp devs with a normal six figure salaries than its worth if the 3k remaining players quit. very sad logic and thats my guess whats happening on the business side. its a mini game they wont allocate resources to. AND i think if they actually did a full rework of the pvp system and daily balancing, new rewards new que system (like apex ranked) it could be worth their investment and bring in new players.
alll i want is a blog post from blizz answering the questions i asked, establishing transparency of who the "pvp team" and what are each of their roles? people making battlegrounds for next expansion or is is a "ranked pvp team" untill they show their work, its just more minimal bandaid fixes..... i mean 9k players.... / 3 for alts.... look up steam charts.... 3k players is NOTHING. more people probably pet battle in wow
played holy pala for years, it's a shame to see them in their current state, I feel like they've had some strong seasons, but historically they've rarely had dominant periods like Discs, Shams, Druids and now MW.
Hpal has defo had dominant periods
They are getting buffs this summer.
You know whats fun? A sense of progression. Give the healers more rating. Its absurd that there are no 2400 healers when dps are already above, we are in the same games! Someone said that giving healers more rating will end up with bad healers higher than they should be. Guess what, its exactly the opposite right now, and dps LOVE it. It feels good to get rating. And ppl may discover they actually like healing like i did and switch full time
Is it worse if more healers are able to get glowy weapons, or if they stop playing the game?
I go 4-2 in 1500 and only go up 9 points… can’t get outta this bracket but when I play dps I shoot up. Demoralizing
I got to 1500 on my disc priest...but went 1-5 lost 51 points. Went 4-2 gained 9. Now I'm at like 1307 after a rough few games.
@@phytoswillams7835 yeah super frustrating; I just cap weekly and where I’m at when I cap I just leave and don’t queue anymore.
Can confirm im a healer that has unsubscribed and let my sub lapse in the last week.
Im not elite, but I was comfortably playing around 2100 last season.
It's just not fun. They need to make all healers like Disc preist were early season one when we had heaps of streamers playing disc.
Instead of nerfing that style of healer. We should be moving towards that style of healer with great dmg output and utility.
Ret paladin and prot paladin are so much fun to play in any content that I’m not surprised to see paladins wanting to test the waters in PVP too. They’re noticeably present in PUG PVE and random BG too even though they only ever top meters in cleave/aoe.
Just really good class design for both and they’ll probably have high representation all through the expansion.
The problem for holy paladin is that priests are a hard counter. Throw in the high representation of ret pallies who share same forbearance debuff, holy paladin just can't catch a break.
The most annoying thing a DPS can do to a healer is flame them after their healer gave their entire mana bar and toolkit over a 3-4 mins in to heavy dampening to try and save their team while said DPS stood in the open the whole time, didn't even try to prevent the enemy DPS and healer CC'ing their healer and only popped their wall at sub 20% health and proceeds to scream at their healer.
The worst thing you can do in a solo shuffle is read your chat box. I don't read chat at all, and I don't participate in it. Keeps me safe from toxicity and keeps me from getting banned/muted. Blizzard created this environment, I just work around it.
Or when you look at Details after a 4-5 min game of keeping your mage alive, only to find he used poly a total of 1 time, and counterspelled 0 times...
Idea for heal incentive, bonus rating, still match them and calculate MMR as normal, but then when outside of match they get a bonus to their rating, give +1 rating for every solo shuffle they finish. so if they do say 200 solo shuffles during a season their rating is the rating they earned + 200. So a medium skilled player gets to 1600mmr, ends up with 1800 rating and the elite stuff unlocked, etc. Maybe a cap on how high the rating can go, but something big an high like that.
Dampening needs to start lower or not go up as quick or something in 2s and 3s. I get SS but why am I at 30% dampening 1 min into the game in 2s? Add a warrior Sharpen Blade or ANY MS and you’re healing is cucked from the gate
Maybe if they get rid of the amount of defensives, mobility and micro CC from the game the overall experience will improve but who knows.
meh u can go and try that in wotlk its not that fun
Nah we don't want half our spellbocks removed and have 20min games like in bfa
@@ziggs123 That will not be the case if damage is properly tuned and losing 2 out of the 5 fking defensive abilties some classes have is not dumbing down the game. There's a reason why rogues now have 2 shadowdance, shadowblade and secret technique, it's to combat all the shit load of random defensives and micro cc
@@Zaete Okay, the pvp will continue you die, players will continue to cry about bandaid fixes like precog being in the game because the core design is flawed.
@@Zaete wotlk looks ugly af
I tried. I did. Put in over 400 rounds as a resto shaman. Im hard stuck at 1500 and keep getting matched against glads and R1s. Everytime I break 1600 I get knocked back down lmao.
healers are anti-fun in ANY pvp game and wow is no exception
people need to realize how fun Preservation Evoker is to play
Its not even a wizard meta, it just takes meele brains to get used to new stuff couple weeks. Its a mistweaver meta
I’m a healer and I’ve stopped playing because in the first season I spent weeks grinding rating and couldn’t breach 1700 even though I managed to get 2k every season before.
So this season I’m just gonna wait until this inflation kicks in because otherwise I’d be winning 5 in a row and getting 10 rating only to lose once and have 100 rating taken from me. It’s beyond infuriating but at least I can chill and do pve and circumvent the whole issue.
On the other hand the dps players do not have such a luxury I guess
Thanks for this video Venru.
I'm a Resto heal, osciallting between 1800 - 2200 max rating but honestly since dragon flight healing has been nothing fun for resto. I feel like I'm always bursting heal all the time with 0 time to
My other heal character is Holy priest and while it's never been ultra good in Arena, I did some good ratings back then. Dragonflight really killed the healing capacity imo, they need to balance healing for pvp a bit more. Give resto some nice buff ffs. Fucking blizzard
If you want to heal you either Disc, Monk or Resto sham. Rest is SHIT
I was playing healer in solo shuffle but you rarely get any rating. Most of the time you play 3:3 because one dd wins 0 or all 6 matches. Unless enemy healer has a mental breakdown you dont win more than 3. Its just 0 fun. Even if you win 4 out of nowhere. You still get 0. Or if you are lucky enough you might get upto 4 rating. BUT if you only win 2 matches because the warrior just jumps behind pillar as a warrior should do and gets trained you will lose 60 rating. Blizzard knows how to keep healer in line.
With season 2 i quit pvp and i try myself in pve for the first time in 8 years.
No, DK does not need some love. It needs reworks as much as Hpal.
You nailed it. "Nobody enjoys healing". I do it long enough to get my vaults and conquest cap, then i'm done solo shuffling for the week.
One of the major issues is when the DPS makes a mistake it can typically be overcome when the healer makes a mistake it typically leads to a death and then it's all the healers fault...I've played for a long time and will cover for multiple miscues then a DPS runs one way while I'm moving another and when I try to get los to heal I get cc'd and then the "there healers way better" when I did more healing and damage mitigation, just not worth being talked down too
I recently switched to a disc priest having never played a healer in my decades of WoW playtime. I agree with all of this.
As a healer its just not worth it anymore, like in PVP u never really want to fail your team, especially if they are good cause your opponents are just whew. In PVE you cant carry anyone that doesnt belong there in high end content, which is fine in 25+ but in 17-18's.
I always appreciate your wisdom EV. I don’t even know/care what solo shuffle is and I resubbed in January Priest/Shaman/Paladin. (I know what it is, but I’ve never wanted to play it as a healer.)
If they gave like 250-500g for playing a full solo shuffle instead of the useless “combat medics box” or whatever I would que heals all day but there is no incentive after capping
Played every single healer to 2000+ last season. I quit the game. The ONLY thing that will alleviate the healer issue is rewarding gameplay, not gold/rewards.
I quit retail and went back to era when they started banning healers from afking in solo shuffle, I'm not slave labor if I want to afk I'll afk
Non-MW healer here: I don't want to queue, it is basically exactly how you describe it. When I see MW in the lobby I know I'm going to lose. No thanks.
As a Frost DK main, we need a lot of love. Situation of dks is just sad. very sad to believe locks mages and druids keep getting rework before the outdated dks
Give healer big MMR gains if we 5-1 or 6-0. Give MMR even if we 3-3 as heals
Healers will be helped when cata classic and MoP classic comes out.
I'm a MW monk main, I was 2350 last season and now I'm stuck at 1800. Ever single match I fought yesterday had 2700+ healers, most had the rank 1 mount for various seasons, its so demoralising fighting against people which shouldn't be at 1800. I quit yesterday after going down to 1680. So 1 less healer for you guys!
people don't understand how MMR works, the larger the pool, the higher the theoretical ceiling as the higher the chance of outliers. Because there are less healers (normalised) proportionate to dps, they will have a lower ceiling. As much as people believe solo shuffle measures skill, actually elo in this instance isn't working with statistically significant samples, what you're seeing at the top end is a lot to do with luck and circumstance as much as skill. To give a simple example, a sample of 100 players (healers) vs 1000 players (dps) the small sample is less likely to have, by chance, had someone score 20 straight wins vs the larger sample. Outliers (your 2400s and your 800s) increase with sample size. Elo is self-correcting so outliers become less of a measure of chance over time, but we are early in the season at present.
One way to normalise it would be a system where elo is measured role-agnostic... Or you just bin the system entirely! Elo is great for 1v1 like Chess and ok for team-based pursuits, but for an individual queuing into a team match, it makes no sense, Blizz tried to help address the problem by the rotation system within each game, but it just doesn't fit the game mode.
I WANT to heal, the problem is I dont want to do it on a MW and it seems like I am beating my head against the wall on my druid anytime you go against a MW/Disc. Blizzard needs to up tune the other healing specs so more people will play them. As of now, the game is down one main pvp healer because I refuse to do it on a MW. I can't be the only one.
So many of my wow friends told me they stopped completely playing rated pvp now becasue they know they cant get anywhere. And less and less people playing has a domino effect, so even less people will play. I cant even find any partners right now, its liek really hard to find some people for rated. You basically need to que shuffle but even there you wait 40 mins. I absolutely agree with Ven on all of his vids about this topic. Also i healed since i started seriously with Arenas end of BFA and ALL of SL and when DF came out i realized that healing wasnt the same anymore it got exponential harder and it felt like healers were extremely weak for some reason. I think its the fact that in SL dps did only dmg with their "GOs" but in DF blizz changed that to Dmg with Cds AND consistent dmg, which is a good thing, but Healers didnt improve at all to compensate, also the added damp in every bracket and in solo its obviosuly way faster with damp, which again isnt a bad thing but you get the point healers got worse this Xpac becasue of many factors. SO its not only way harder to heal, in some gamemodes like for example shuffle its also extra pain with faster damp and people doing random crap like lining you or not pressing defensives or bad positioning etc. So WHY in hell would you ever prefer to heal in DF? I actually lvld DPS classes and have WAY more fun on them, sure i wait longer for shuffles but at least its not a pain in the A**. I dont know what blizzard needs to do but there has to be something. I agree with all the balance stuff, classes need to be balanced and also the rating cap is extremely bad for the pvp game etc. There are many topics that need to get fixed.
Not only arena but also in rated battlegrounds mistweaver monk is by far the best healer. It's so frustrating for other healers when mw is so overtuned.
Tell that to every pve mistweaver that gets shafted basically everywhere else.
Their literal only strength atm is pvp healing. Without that it's close to a dead spec. He'll if it wasn't for brewmaster tank or mw pvp it'd be a dead class.
@@cyborgtemplar1989I suppose you mean outside the world 2nd mythic sarkareth kill?
Nobody care pve
@@Schumizavr more care about pve than pvp.
@@SkagulTV what's the representation you see in general for MW? just overall?
in raid they're pretty decent once you have the other major specs. and that's only as a 4th that nearly any healer can fill. In heroic basically any healer works so long as they have comfort on that spec. Doesn't mean it's objectively better.
In m+? what do they bring that shaman doesn't plus some? Or really any other healer for that matter. well maybe beats out holy priest . . . and that's a maybe. even those are nearly 3 times the representation for 20+ keys.
MW has no lust, no battle res, it's utility is something most other healers have something similar to. Plus they tend to also have more on top of that. It's punished whenever melee mechanics force you out for any lengthy amount of time. Revival isn't really even a cooldown outside a few very niche scenarios.
It has good throughput when given prep time, and good uptime in melee to maintain HoT's with rising mist. but the other healers can do similar if not better in some instances and not reliant on rising sun kick to extend HoT's in some of those scenarios. It's overall just weaker than any of the others by what it offers outside of throughput.
Love the way outlaw was having a crisis in the corner lol
MW arent broken, they're the only healer that can come close to handling the meta.
MW representation is not the problem, the other healer specs are just trash, and as shown, no MW Monks above 2400, speaks volumes.
Knowing blizzard though, yeah, they'll nerf MW to make it just as useless as Druid / shaman before buffing the other healer specs to where they should be.
Exactly!! MW is SO GOOD that it can’t even hit 2400 😂
I'm sorry I trolled too hard about the goldie locks subscription zone when I was telling the devs their game has like 2 weeks of content.
How to get every elite set for an expec with minimal subs > Farm Gold for 3 wow tokens >Gear at start of expac > push a bit >unsub > resub last week, > Catchup mechanics > Inflated rating push > New season starts > push w1 for elite set > Unsub > repeat end of S2 Start of S3 and again for S3-S4!
Why would I pay to have my time wasted by GAME DESIGN? For the intrinsic fun? Bro I can play Blade & Sorcery and rip people's hearts out of their chest and eat them, I can decapitate them, disembowel them, gravity jump through the air, deflect fire balls, force choke people, break necks, and crush skulls with telekinesis then force feed their brain to one of their comrades. How is point clicking suppose to compete with that for INTRENSIC fun? You're not competing with Everquest 2 or a modern wow clone for my attention you're competing with things that are actually INNOVATIVE not just marketed as innovative. Like I could pay a modder to make the Blizzard campus a map in Blade and Sorcery, then I could take audio clips of dev interviews and tie them to the Blade & Sorcery mobs voice lines, and just cover the "All voices matter statue" in virtual blood. Theres one spell called lashings that lets you stick objects to others I'd hang a bunch of decapitated heads from the statue xD!
Devs got mad :(!!! They're upset people are able to get rewards with minimal sub time and engagement with the game. If you want me to stay subbed make actual content for me to do lelelelelelel. Ranked 1v1s, FFAs, Battle royals, ENFOS, Wave Defense, random themed bg's (Skroggs verse murlocs, illdians vs arthases). Regardless of what they think or the reality is, from my perspective I see 0 creativity 0 effort put into keeping the PvP scene fresh and providing varied experiences. It seems like it's more a system designed to rope you into to racking up hours and it heavily pressures you to engage with parts of the game you don't want to. IE Tier sets. Why GAMBLE my time for RNG vault drops, when I can just resub and get all the upgrades. I'm not going to raid I think that's super cringey culty and toxic I also don't want to give the devs the satisfaction of that manipualted engagement metric.
We're not queueing because the dps is refusing to use their defencives, or just straight up bubbles/walls first CD to do dmg. Then line of sights us and refuses to peel/stop cc and they die and flame us. Then we go 3-3 / 4-2 or 2-4 and get zero rating.
Who would have guessed that transfering to mongo meta would impact fun and motivation to queue.
Remember when they made those changes to help healers? Cool story
Well, I mean, how can healers be expected to have fun with all the cc spam?
I've played thousands of arena matches every season since i've been playing...I've yet to do a single match this season in any bracket
Not to be that guy, but all I do is queue heals (pally, shaman, monk, priest, druid) for solo. All floating around 1k - 1.2k
I get a match under two minutes every time, sometimes only takes a second.
I will say, monks do feel amazing right now. You’re right, if they don’t go for me, I’ll easily double the heal output of whomever I’m playing against.
The removal of spellwarden as a pvp talent, and the meta right now being semi wizard dominant, was an overall big survival nerf for dks.
This isn't a PVP specific problem. Anyone who has tried looking for healers for M+ will agree.
This is my solo shuffle experience in a nutshell. Ret pally runs straight to other side of arena and dies instantly. Asks why I didn't heal. Me and the lock that killed him at the same time say "you over extended". He proceeds to stand there in the rest of the matches when im on his team. I lose rating, he gains rating.
Why would I waste hours of my time when one dps can troll me that hard.
As a healer main I despise solo shuffle. And almost always refuse to play solo shuffle as a healer. People are way too toxic and blame you for everything makes me not even want to try. I'm better off playing 2v2 or 3v3 with my friends or guild mates where we actually try to improve instead of flaming each other. I have been lucky in a couple solo shuffles where ppl talk and give advice or try to win as a team but 90% that's not the case. And it also makes getting to higher rating extremely difficult when you consistently go 3 for 3. Usually because one DPS is deemed the 'weakest' link. Also doesn't help when a lot of the times you only got 1 or 2 DPS players in the lobby that help CC or peel. And when those 2 DPS play together you know you're going to win that round or lose depending.
In the screenshot the priest had an mmr that is 281 higher than the pally. A player with a 281 rating advantage should have an 84% win ratio vs the lower rated player. The priest only won 80% of his games, hence no mmr increase. At least, that's what should happen with the original ELO system, don't know what blizzard's system does.
healing in pvp has never felt worse.. i have all healers at max lvl wont play a damn game until they fix the healing issue
this seems like a relatively easy fix.
3 dps queue's, lower damage done by about 50% so its not so dang bursty without a healer.
or have an AI healer for queues with no healer.
could set these settings to people under 2200, and at higher ratings remove the AI so its all about people.
I used to main FDK, now I just don't play. But THANK YOU! Flarkness here on YT can tell anyone what DKs need, better than anyone else I've seen. The others quit playing DK altogether.
That's why I said before they shouldn't NERF MW Monks, they should BUFF every other healer to be just as strong.
After the changes they did this patch i have had an horrible time playing my main (for 7 years) Hpally and just quit the game for some weeks now.
Unpopular opinion for Solo: make glad mount (or reskin) available AND/OR reskin for healers specifically
Me once every expansion: i want to learn to heal
Learning to heal: 5000000 adons, complete key rebinding, and everyone flaming me in low level dungeons while I try to learn
Healed for a month in season 1 just stopped pvp completely. Not worth it for reward and not fun.
@8:04 IMO that's probably not the sole reason - look at the overall cr and mmr
Priest is highest cr/mmr in lobby
Hpal had his first game that lobby @ 0 cr and default 1500 mmr
Any loss PERIOD because you obviously never q with the other healer as a healer, means that if/when you lose 1 game to that person with NO cr/Default mmr, you would theoretically lose a cosmic fuckton of cr/mmr because you've just lost to someone with "no" xp (cr)
ADDITIONALLY- it looks as if the priests mmr/cr has somehow gone stagant (this isn't a mystery, its actually very simple to diagnose) you go 3/3 , 3 times in a row, and your mmr and cr will be the same - this is where people claim they've gotten stuck. It takes a perfect game to climb out of that, and if you underperform in the following game, then you will lose cr and mmr and be stuck back in the same boat. it's a shitty broken system that IMO the majority are only still using because it's far easier to get rating in SS than it is in the regular 3s bracket.
This isn't rocket science and it makes me sick that a company that makes so many hundreds of millions of dollars can't write a simple algorithm that anyone with a fucking mathematic minor could write. Rant over.
I’m 1800 on enhance. I literally spent hundreds of games trying to push rating and even going 3/3 or 3/4 I gain little to no rating and the MMR is so low that if I lose even 1 game I lose all progress from the 2 maybe even 3 games.
I'm still playing it but definitely some incentives would be nice
Dampening needs an overhaul. How would you feel if you did less and less damage as the game goes on?
They need to rethink it entirely, maybe test reducing manapool instead, or reducing everyone's healthpool until someone gets oneshot. But having your teammembers dying because your heals that normally heal them for half their health suddenly do 2% healing after 5 minutes is just not fun to play, and the only one that feels that effect is the healer.
i main healer and i just play for cap. atm dont feel like there is no point to keep trying so soon in the season . ill get glad mid season anyways
This season is just plain bad. The Tier sets are boring and suck, the MMR issue means most players aren't even playing the game because whats the point? and the balancing is just absolutely whack
I’m not a magnificent player and while I appreciate the quick queues as a healer but there’s something about having extremely sweating games in the 1600 bracket to barely get any rating that just isn’t fun.
i played a bit in season 1 has holy paladin and coming from a guy that didnt played retail seriously since cata it took me 3 games in solo shuffle to notice no matter how hard a tried a resto druid would just outplay me in any situation, and considering the time needed by blizzard to balance the game i founded it way easier to just quit
I find it funny how people pretend finding a healer was ever easy to begin. Doing pugs i could easily take over 1 hour to find a suitable healer for 1700+ games. 40 minutes? it improved.