They should just do what GW did and make a PVP mode that you can just make a max level, get full gear and go instantly. Without that WoW is a fucking grind that I dont need.
Bro you can literally get level 80 in a night and full honor the next night and cap conquest the next night. A three day weekend can get you caught up to R1s, other than crafted algari shit. It's never been less of a grind than it is right now. And there's no increased conq caps, t2 weapons etc, it's never been easier from a "grind" and perpetual disadvantage standpoint.
That comes with playing the game it’ll take some time I don’t even have to try to recognize what the abilities in the game do for every class I just know
@@effortlessGFX why are you being an asshole all I said was it comes with time there’s no need to rush that I don’t see how you view my comment as me trying to say it’s an easy fix or something
Omnibar let’s you scroll through every class cd in their menu and check off the ones you want icons for, even if you don’t use the icons, it’s a quick way to comb through all the classes and see major offensives and defensives
I disagree with Pika here. He mentioned first time in Apex he got 1 kill in an hour, but how long would it take to get an arena kill from first downloading WoW? It would be days or weeks until you're levelled and geared enough to get there so I think in terms of accessibility Wow is much harder to break in to. Also the amount you have to keep track of in arena is crazy. There is a lot to keep track of in high end fps shooters but WoW is another level with DRs, cooldowns and set ups. Maybe it's because I'm better at fps than arena but even just to get to something easier like KSM would be harder than to get a foothold in an fps imo.
I have been playing WoW since the beginning, sometime in 2004. And man, I gotta agree that it's not easy just to pick up and play these days. Been out for a few months due to medical issues. I came back and damn - I don't have a clue about all this new Proff stuff or Proff Orders etc... Not to mention where I'm supposed to go, what to do and about 100 more questions. I'll figure it out having a WoW background, but dayuuuum this 10.0 and up is crazy AF! ??? Prolly not.
4:35 I'm sorry but this was advanced level cope. Talking about monitor settings, desk position, graphics settings, disabling vsync, and 90% of what you mentioned is for every game you're playing on PC including WoW, not just FPS games. In fact half of what you said applies to anyone who just uses a computer every day and decides to optimize their experience. WoW is the only game I have played in history that requires me to install 3rd party software to make the game playable. It's honestly one of the reasons I am hesitant to reinstall the game when a new xpac drops, because I think of how tedious and annoying installing or updating addons is going to be. WoW is also the only game where I'm required to pay $15 a month just to log in, whereas most other popular multiplayer games are literally free with cosmetic shop. (WoW has both somehow) Aim Labs is the only relevant comparable point, and I personally don't use it anymore because playing the actual game will ultimately be better practice anyway. It's not a requirement at all, whereas addons in WoW is absolutely 100% a requirement. Venruki was right here brother even though I love your content and you're the goat. I might watch the occasional video, but I'm not playing the game for the main reasons he mentioned. Saying "you wouldn't get 2 kills in cs:go" isn't analogous because that's due to a lack of skill, not a lack of completing the time gated tasks to be competitively viable. Imagine if your gun did 30% less damage than the enemy team because they played more last month. The game would die in a week. People outside the WoW community don't put up with that shit. Also imagine this 30% debuff ON TOP of there being a skill gap, and that's WoW arena for new players. Every human recreation that has withstood the test of time has a skill gap, but WoW specifically requires you to grind before your skill even becomes a relevant variable. You're the best rogue of all time besides maybe Reckful, and I would 100% beat you every single time if I'm in full conquest + embellishments and you're in random blues you got from leveling. That's not skill, and it's not the idea of fun to most people trying to get into the game.
It's not complicated you just need high and efficient apm. You have to actually learn what other classes can do. It's not accessible at 2k, but it shouldn't be accessible at 2k. Honestly, it's less complicated now despite the increase of abilities. The game has gotten easier not harder. And they fixed the gearing issues that made everyone under 2.2 stuck in a perpetual disadvantage for 3 months of the season because of conq cap and t2 weps. The game is simpler.. no borrowed power, no t2, no conq cap increase. More abilities doesn't mean it's more difficult. Like, the game is straight up simpler to be decent at. You can get level 80 and full honor gear in a single sleepless night if you wanted to - it's never been like that before even back to cata. talent builds, general strats, positioning, addons, etc have never been more instantly accessible than right now. literally all u need is omnibar and sarena and a willingness to not get handed 2.2 for free or just roll a feral.
You open Valorant you queue for a game. You open League/Dota you queue for a game. You open wow and pay monthly to do chores because the minigame we like to play is trapped in a MMO.
@@trivial50 "But DF is full gear in 5 hours playtime at max level." Uhh define full gear? Full honor gear with embellishments? Sure, but with how long epic bgs can last, 20-30 minutes each, 5 hours is probably not right. 6-7 hours, in other words, a full day of playtime, maybe. To even become competitive. Tier? No. Full conquest? Hell no, unless you got a good teammate to play with to spam arenas with.
@@trivial50only 5hours, after max level. Guess i must be glad. In cs go, i can open the game on a brand new account, and just play pvp, same on dota, lol, valorant... 😂😂😂😂
As a healer i started in solo shuffle. I am so fkn bad but solo shuffle gave me the confidence and experience to try to join 3s. I wish diminishing returns and party cooldowns were base line in the ui
Absolutely. DR and cooldown tracking and trading should be clarified much more in the standard UI. Also, all the pvp specific tuning and ability changes in different modes. You have to keep up with current patch notes and all that just to have a slight clue what is happening
Soon as you make a mistake, or are just outplayed as a healer in 2's or 3's people start rage quitting. It's really not easy to get into unless you are in a guild with people who don't have the maturity of toddlers.
How to resolve much of this complexity: transform all continuous damage (dots) into singular types, that is, Vampiric + Unstable would be a DOT SHADOW (stackavel or something along those lines, becoming a single stack, so I don't need to know that the DOT Vampiric is from Priest and Unstable is from Lock). Another thing is to do the same thing with CC's, if I give a rogue STUN, it's the same thing as a pala stun, as it's the same thing as a warrior stun, etc... This way it's easy to know when you're stunned regardless of the class and ease of knowing which skills besides DR's. "Ah, but the pala stun is magical and the rogue stun is physical, you can't dispel it...", fuck it, it does 2 different stuns, one magical and one physical. good!
Pika is vastly underestimating how much prep is needed to even play comp WoW PvP compared to your avg comp FPS. Leveling, gearing, setting up basic addons (arena frame + dr tracker at least), finding someone to play with to even get started at low rating. You dont even need all the fancy macros/WAs etc but the barriers are still massive.
Yeah hes missing the point completely lol, obviously there is a learning curve to games. but you have to do and add so much shit to play wow. its not even close, but he did read a comment that said cope, and he is full of copeium for sure
i know im late but him comparing it to fps games and their settings was some of the biggest cope ive heard today. As a new player i can tell you this game is not new player friendly at all lmao.
@@harrisonbannerman Addons are not a basic part of mmorpgs. WoWs design is so bad it makes them nearly required. other games its for simple quality of life or just aesthetics. Also not as much prep for other mmos as much as wow. Also if you read okandokandast they are comparing it to fps. Has nothing to do with whether they like it or not, its just a comparison that pika is claiming is the same, which it isnt. Setting up your peripherals and your Game Settings is something people do for every game(even single player ones).
Sure, the issue however is that competitive PvP games don't work when no one's playing them, and people don't play because the "do tons to get started PvPing" genre doesn't appeal to a sufficient amount of PvPers. This (along with a myriad of other reasons making PvP in WoW awful) causes the regular negative spiral of people quitting due to not enough people playing that we're currently starting to see.
Something I told a friend who stuck to 2v2 rated and didnt try much of Solo Shuffle was games are usually 4-2, 2-4 or 3-3 for dps while for healers its usually 6-0 or 0-6. DPS are playing a game of figuring out who the weakest player is on the match while healers are competing directly with the enemy healer, as a DPS you're usually trying to scrap a win in one of the 3 rounds with the worst player to go positive while a skill gap between both healers means the best healer will roll the enemy healer 6-0. You end up playing 6 rounds having a net positive or negative or 1 game if you did not go even and then you're back to waiting for another 40 minutes. I think the easiest solution would be enabling 2v2 with 4 DPS players if there's no healers queueing up, 2v2 is a degenerate bracket but it sure beats alt tabbing for 40 minutes then getting into a game and you're also complete zoned out because you took a very long break from your last game and need to warm up again to play your best.
Hes not 100% right, he backs up his argument with biased opinions, but he doesnt criticise his argument. If a new player would go right into pvp, first they would need to pay for a sub. Then they would also need to know what their buttons do. If they would die immediately maybe they would quit the game right away. Evrryone I know dont play wow because of the subscription fee. Not about anything else. Wow is about being rewarding in order to keep players satisfied and in order to keep them in the game. To keep paying sub
@@Vikwak If you can't afford 15$ a month then you shouldn't be playing video games. You need to manage your finances better and get your life back on track. WoW has saved me money by playing it. I spend hundreds of hours on a game thats 15$ a month compared to buying a game for 70$ and beating it in a week.
@@gansta432 Exactly this. 15 a month is $60 in 4 months, which is equal to buying 3 new games per year. It's one of the cheapest games to play outside of F2P, as long as you don't fall into microtransactions
He’s wrong lol simple youre taking this from a dude who’s been on Diablo for most of the WoW ssn hasn’t even gotten to 2200 yet. He catering to the toxic shitters who are hard stuck and will just complain instead of get better lol
He's so right about how unwelcoming and negative the community is... sure the game has had problems for a while. But the more players coming in the more feedback on these issues we get.
This is called Karma. This is what inevitably happens to businesses that don't listen to customer feedback. WoW players complaints have gone unanswered for years, and this is the result. Potential new customers stay away. Sucks for the loyal existing customers, but it is what it is.
So true I literally came back from a pretty long break on Friday and while leveling a did a dungeon, the one where you fly around to the diff spots I don’t know the name but I didn’t have my dragon flying yet and instead of them explaining that I could use the fp I was called “a useless waste of ducking time” and booted. People are ridiculous it was a reg dungeon
very true, blizzard execs actually hacked my pc and made me tell new and learning players they're trash and to quit the game, wasn't my fault@@oldmoney1022
Fresh Heroic raid? Ask for curve. Now you have blocked new players from accessing that content. So there goes your favourite games popularity. 3 years later stupid curve will mean nothing. Blizzard has to fix this somehow.
41:33 this is why we need add-ons or to integrate their functionality in the game, like clique, and to some extend just for CDs you can take everything else away, anything else that it's not cosmetic or adds non-combat functionality i mean and i am probably fine for the most part but add-ons are not really the main issue right now
One of the saddest things that ever happened to me in wow was: I got my wife to play an evoker. We queued the first week the class was out (in DF prepatch), I was excited for her to try it. It was a heroic random queue for uldaman. And the pug was such an asshole to her, said she "shouldn't be queuing heroic without knowing her class", she never played again. Again, this was a heroic lfg..where on earth else would she learn prevoker if not in a dungeon >_
@@baro6447 =( sad. I play high-ish keys myself and I try my best to help people in a meaningful /constructive way without being mean. I am sorry that your friends left because of the toxicity.
I think Pika is not understanding the point Venruki made. Venruki isn't comparing the complexity and difficulty of wow vs other games. What Venruki is saying is that just getting properly setup (character, gear, add-ons) takes an eternity in wow. And in other games, all you do is press play and start actually playing.
The main problem with WoW is the fact that you need outside websites to play the game optimally. The lack of in game information on how to play your toon whether that's pve or pvp is really bad. A lot of tooltips are just plainly labelled wrong, no where does it tell you what you should be aiming for gear wise. Good luck finding out what diminishing returns are. New players need more information to make their journey a smoother experience.
This goes for Venruki's example as well: Counterstrike, on the surface, looks like a very simple game. But 80% of players are still in silver/gold (the lowest ranks). If you really want to play like the pros, you have to take into account your and your enemy's economy, know your timings, know your flashes/smokes, play on sound etc. which - you guessed it - also requires some form of external help like the websites you'r talking about. One could almost say that there's enough handholding in WoW to make it just as "easy" to just pick up and play as CSGO.
@@robbin2331 That's completely fair, but I feel like it's harder in WoW. CSGO only has maybe 20 weapons and 5 grenades, that every player can buy. WoW has 40 abilities per class, with an added racial ability, borrowed power (haven't played lots of DF so not sure if it still has it). Me as an "experienced" WoW player it's not that overwhelming, but I can imagine WoW being way more overwhelming than CSGO for new players. That being said, CSGO doesn't have PvE, thus learning the game requires you to play with 4 others against 5 others. Whereas in WoW you can learn the game at your own pace while leveling.
@@robbin2331i think valorant is a better example of a game that’s extremely new player/casual friendly. csgo u still need to know lineups at this point because of the older player base, but with valo they took a lot of the pressure off by having smokes be just point and click. yeah you can learn like molly lines up but i don’t think it’s really that impactful until like literal pro play/high immortal/radiant. i think establishing a stronger foundation in wow would be much healthier for the longevity of the game and to introduce new players to the game - just take away all this extra shit that is really unnecessary and let people do what they wanna do, which really is m+/raiding/pvp. i think blizzard should look at the good things from classic servers and live servers and combine them to make a genuinely enjoyable game again.
@@derlou88 yeah PoE is an even worse version of needing outside software and information in order to play the game. Casuals never have a chance. I've tried getting like 10 of my friends to play the game and only 1 has ever even made it to endgame, yet all of them play wow endgame at at least a semi-hardcore manner.
bfa was fine, no one died because tanks were viable (never should be) and healer output was insane, healers were the issue. ssn 1 bfa was actually fine.
whats you 2v2 arena rating ? what class are u playin ? im playing wow since start with some gaps for some time breaks. and stil lcant say im a monster at pvp. im playing sub rogue now on WOTLK. you need about few years to get good at pvp. at least you are not playing 100 arena matches every day at least for a 100 days. PVE is for dummies in wow. dont compare it to arena ). its deferent world.
I was using Omnicd in M+ but it broke when i started playing pvp. It makes it hard AF but i also now know the sound of a lot of abilities. i wish it would just work but it isn't terrible
They need to give new players a pre arena obstacle crash course or tutorial where it puts you into a arena with bots and it teaches you basic information such as CC chains using defensives.
yeah thats the whole point...so more people can actually start arena and not dive head first into the hardest pvp game with 0 guidance and have to look up a million guides to be able to even play.@@WhyDidYouChange
@@WhyDidYouChange People like you are exactly why the game is DYING. You gatekeep the community, belittling new players instead of helping them. And then you turn around and wonder why your solo shuffle queues are upwards of 2 hours. You do know that not everyone else has played WoW for the last 20 years and memorized every ability and interaction, right? As if teaching new players the basics and fundamentals of the game is going to impact you in any way whatsoever.
@@JonezBBQ Whats so bad about learning the game the same way we did? Is it the drop of average intelligent quotia? Attention span? Or maybe, majority of players spent 10+ years learning, and are still learning new things, so it would be better to spoonfeed the experience to new players, rather than have them wander and fish for 4 hours straight, like we used to do? No matter how thin you cook a pancake, there's still two sides
While I 100% agree with counterstrike and how you wouldn't be able to even get a kill, your at least still playing the game mode you want to play. IN wow, theres hour supon hours of content you are forced to play before even having the option to play arenas. AND THEN theres barriers like gear and teammates. Big difference.
yeah he completely missed the point there and was trying to compare his experience as a professional player to what it would take to be a professional in an FPS. I don't think he was thinking about the casual Andy there.
Well if you wanna play comp, you gotta hit a certain level in cs and then you gotta WIN 10 games to even get your placement. So if you wanna play comp in cs then you're not able to just get on it and play the mode you wanna play
You hit it Pika I am 44 years old and have been playing wow since Wotlk. I go to work 12 hrs a day and come home and try to play I don’t want it to be like a second job so I play casual plus I have come to terms that I won’t ever be at the top b/c my awareness and reactions r not what they used to be. So I have went back to play Wotlk a slower pace more laid back. Now my kid said she does not like classic b/c it is to slow so she likes retail so they r to me headed in the right direction for the younger generation but they need to keep working to crack down on the toxic/jerks/trolls or they will run them off.
42 minutes in, and yeah the gap between top level play, and "average" play, is immense. something this guy doesn't seem to get, is that players getting into the game, aren't playing "top level play". getting into the game is easy, the gameplay is really simple, all classes are easy to understand (some more than others, clearly), so on and so forth. there are issues, big ones, notably with just how much content there is, and the almost complete lack of direction the game gives. but playing classes isn't the issue in getting people into the game. i think the largest issues are, like you've said, people, including those playing it, constantly talking shit about it, AND the people playing it. and the fact that it's very overwhelming to get into a game, and have literally multiple worlds worth of content in front of you, and the game basically just says "go for it".
Im a new player myself, bought the game about 6 months ago and coming from guild wars all I can say is that WoW comunity is... just weird. How can someone love and hate a game so much at the same time? It is a great game but some content creators really need to chill, Im so tired of tier list and stuff like that. Just play what its fun for you unless you are a WFR raider 😂
This is huge actually, thanks for your perspective. I very, very much agree. So much rage for a video game, yet such a dedicated following. For an optional video game. People need to remember it’s fun, and act like it, or they need to quit! It’s like they are stuck
For 3v3 you might not need all those addons if you have voice coms and a vocal team, but you need most of them.... And then for shuffle you need Sarena and the omni combo for sure... and the healer cc alert... If you think you dont its because you forgot what its like to play at those levels... and while top players know what to look for and dont need so many addons, the same cannot be said of the casual players.
Also i love Arcane Mage, but I just get clobbered in arenas because I'm trying to do differential equations while the DH and War are finishing their addition tables and going out to recess. Fun spec though.
I played through all of season 1 of dragonflight - I'm a very competitive person but no matter how hard I tried to get into PVP I just couldn't convince myself to devote all of the time needed to figure out what the actual fuck is going on lol.
Its literally just repetition lmao. Play the game and even remotely pay attention and you’ll figure it out. Everyones of the mindset these days of “well why cant they just hold my hand THE ENTIRE TIME so I dont have to do anything myself”. Long gone are the days where looking something up was the FUN part of playing games like WoW. Now its “boohoo I have to use my brain”
No, its not boohoo I have to use my brain. Its I have multiple jobs working 50-60 hours per week and I don't have time to dedicate to making a fully fleshed out and prepared character for end game content or at least the time to dedicate to stick to the curve of the player base that has lots of free time...the least I can get is a mode where everyone is balanced so skill Is the only determining factor in an objective based game mode. No, I join and there's many fully decked out players erasing all of the unprepared characters(skill means very little here) all the time and its overwhelming, discouraging, and boring to say the least. If Bliz wants a more fleshed out community as opposed to elites and average joes primarily than they have to stream line and balance. Not prioritizing our money, but really considering our time spent and our experience quality.
@@jixer1495 It takes 5 hours to get a character basically max geared if you queue some 2s/3s. Enormous amounts of free time is not necessary. Time taken to actually get good at the game is not a chore. It is the actual basic content of the game.
I'm trying to do my part in making the game more welcoming. I made an alt and wanted to farm some conquest. Found a rogue who it turns out didn't have any addons installed, soon found out he needed help with bindinds, and macros. Its few days now that I take some time out of my day to help him get his foot in the arena. Im by no means a great player, but I have played on and off for a while and even just offering someone to play with them helps them out a lot. Sometimes you gotta know when to be a sweaty gamer and push, but also when to make choices that will help the community grow.
They literally dont, you can ready your character for pvp in less than 24h playtime, and this is an rpg afterall. Stop propagating instant gradification! For fuck sake gearing is so fast in dragonflight that i for the first time have like 5x same class and i work full time
its not JUST the queue times. WoW still had massive issues before solo shuffle even existed. I’m sure a lot of people were like me and had a friend who tried to get them into WoW, my friend begged me to play and it took like a month to even get to the point where I could play PvP with him. And when I did, I lost every game because I didn’t have gear. Then after quitting and starting about 4 or 5 times. I stuck through for about a month to get to level 120 and get conquest geared after days of losing to fully geared 1300s. I finally enjoyed WoW. Whereas I got recommended League one day, played it immediately, was on a level playing field with the people around me, and immediately got hooked for years.
Honestly another huge improvement to soloque in my opinion is PLEASE add RBGs solo que too, that rated ladder has also been corrupted by the same arena disease of exclusive group ques who single out everyone else and obliterate the competition, it’s becoming less and less fun if you don’t have gladiators helping carry your group. Solo que needs to solve many problems but I feel it also needs to expand past its boundaries if it is expected to have more potential in its longevity, give us RBG solo ques!
The appeal of CS, Valorant, DayZ, etc., etc., is that you can log on fairly quickly, click your mouse and get an immediate response from the game for it. WoW being an MMO, that left click has like 15 per-requisites you gotta complete before it'll do anything of any import. Because MMO's require such a big time investment to get much of anything done, it also requires a huge return on that investment. Like I said earlier, FPS games, Arena Shooters, MOBA's, BR's, etc., etc., they all have a return on the time investment basically the moment you click something, which isn't the case with MMO's. If you don't have a lot of time to play, then it could literally take months to get a return of any substance on the time you invested into that particular character. Unfortunately for WoW, Blizzard hasn't provided much compensation for time spent in their game recently. That's why I've taken up permanent residence in Classic WoW/Season of Discovery because raids even with a bad group only take like 1 and a half hours at most, and there's no such thing as Resilience in Classic PvP making fights take way longer than they should, allowing classes like Druids and Paladins to become absolutely bullshit.
I think the CS comp is great to show the difference. I stopped playing WoW and jumped on CS and the difference of the learning curve is way different. If you get a Smurf in CS, yeah you’ll have a bad time, but that doesn’t happen that often. The amount of things to know in WoW to be good at PVP is 1,000 times more. Unless 1200 is your goal in 3s.
@dyner2369 it's literally right below it lol. Watch Simple against other faceit 10 players and he's in fpl. You'd know this shit if you actually played the game or even kept up with it shitter
We had a 55 y/o guy who mainly played New World and Mortal Online 2 come join a few of us on WoW SoD, this was his first time ever playing WoW in general. He would get on youtube and watch WoW videos on how to play and he was getting mad flustered on how many addons he was told he needs and was super confused on how to set it all up. Myself and a few others told him to ignore that crap, gave him 3 addons that would give him some QoL and showed him how to set it up and then told him to play the game how he wanted to. Dude is now enjoying the piss out of the game and can't get him off it. Moral of the story, just play the game. It's really good, don't mind the people who tell you what you need to do. Do what you want to do and I assure you, you'll enjoy it.
Interesting to hear Pika's understanding (or lack of) regarding other video games. If you have never played ranked in League and then play it... you'll end up in games with 'icon clickers' and children - you WILL win 50% of your games. The same cannot be said for WoW
I quit league ranked season 1 because I saw their bullshit MMR system right away. They are not afraid to put you with absolute new players to tank you're MMR to keep you in that state of flux so you keep coming back, or you just quit
Got a shit ton of time in league and my friends tried to start it recently. It's super toxic because to level to ranked you will meet so many smurfs that shit talk you after not giving you a single chance cus they just know spacing
@@mio7452 ye but they need to wait 3 month to level and 1 month to gear 3 month learning other characters, to be the same toxic shit as wow, they went to the Game took a look and then quit, as for wow You have to spend all that time and then quit cuz, queue to long, solo shuffle so toxic, bg is full of premade overgeared.! And You getting oneshotted Even with all the gear from bg, and let me tell You, not being able to play the Game till your fully gear is a fuking pain.!! SO yes a good intelligent person Will always choose to play any other Game that let You play with your friend Even if they have a long time in that Game already, cuz those types of Game is not base on gear or grinding, and in wow while You farm you get demolish while doing so.! By some premade bully overgeared farming You at the cementary.
you will also end up in games with literal bots on you team that dont press buttons meaning you will have to 4v5 while in a rank where the 3 other people on your team also dont really know what they are doing, on top of that in order to play ranked you have to get to level 30 first if you play the draft mode or now quickplay mode they dont care about MMR nearly as much and as a brand new player you could get matched up against someone that is in diamond, for example the 2023 world champs like 2 weeks after winning worlds played a normals game with the champs they were planning to get their skins on, since riot give out team skins if you win worlds, the other team in their normals game not a single player was above the rank of plat
WoW is so hard to get into because you will play on your own leveling up and when you get to max you will get into the worst arguments with people and get owned by everyone in regular battlegrounds and RBG you wont get invited. And trying to get gear while getting destroyed every game and worse if you end up horde your screwed.
I started in March. I had played in Cata, MoP and Legion but I stopped playing till this March. I had never done proper arena pvp before though. I still don't know how to optimize omnibar or how to setup tellmewhen but gearing I figured out. Got full conquest for multiple chars and highest elo I got was 1900. I feel like a bit more playing and I'll get to 23-2400 or something. Once I figured it out it became really fun. (OH btw, I CANNOT figure out how to play rogue. I tried so hard I played so many games but it's so hard to keep track of who to kidney, cheap shot, gouge, blind and stuff...)
And this is why Plunderstorm did so well. As a side note I jumped in to some PvP for the first time in years after playing some plunder, and I was like "WTF is going on"... and that is from a long term WoW player
Not only too complicated for new player. Even for veterans. Like seriously there is so much nonsens in this game. Billions of mounts, pets, achivements, items, rep, whatever. Also too many abilities. It's blown up. And a lot of good abilities don't exist anymore. Every class can also do everything for many addons now. Knockbacks, kicks, stuns, spints, jumps, it's just too much.
Mounts/Pets/Achievements and Rep have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of discussion. None of these have any impact on your actual gameplay. Mounts/Pets are miscellaneous and are just collectibles. Achievements are also just another thing for you to go do if you have nothing to go do. Rep hasnt been relevant for a very long time, it has nothing necessary unless you want collectibles/recipes. The game is very plug and play right now. Make your character 1-60 is irrelevant. 60-70 do your campaign. You’re now at end game and gearing is absurdly easy. The only part it gets confusing are the actual mechanics of the game and class abilities. Rep is account shared through all your toons same with mounts pets and achievements.
played wow from vanilla to cata, got glad in cata have played tens of thousands of arena games. i came back for dragonflight and played a couple games of solo shuffle before deciding i cba learning 400 new leap, dash, damage, healing, teleport, and wall cooldowns every single class has now. ill just raid log
the player base is negative because the overall portion of the playerbase doesnt play the fotm rogue mage lock specs and warrior sometimes (mainly rogue lock) id wager ud be pretty upset if sub was as awful as havoc has been all of SL and most of DF, or if rogue in general was as reliably mediocre as dk was/has been for awhile. not to mention the silly fast times to kill atm cause people to rage even more with trying to figure why they died before being able to react. its unfun, and has been since post BFA.
To be decent at WOW PvP you do have to do everything Venruki said and get some years of practice. Good PvPers take for grated all the knowledge they know about the game such as it's classes, specs, comps exedra. To be good at an FPS or MOBA, play a couple of months if even that and you are good to go! Pikas comparison of what you have to do to be pro at an FPS is the equivalent of what you need to do to not be horrible at WOW PvP. So not horrible vs pro, but same amount of work, ruffly. :P
If you don't want to be horrible at any fps game, you have to put years, lol. Fps games are far more complex than wow. So many people hit 2100 in arena. Good luck hitting faceit 10 in cs, let alone fpl. Which is r1 in wow. The best players in the world play fps games and not wow
@@Boss-ot1iy ?? for fps games you only need to practice your aim and get good game sense to be good at it. To be good at WoW you need to do a ton of research about the game to learn how to get the best gear, best ruins, best stats which can take hours to understand or even days since it just mind boggles you, then you need to grind gear which may take months to get, then you need to install 4387929532 addons which may actually take days or even weeks to get used to those addons since theres just a bunch of stuff on your screen which you don't even understand, then you need to know every single class ability in the game, every single class debuff/buff so that youre able to pvp, just so that when you go into arena you don't get one shotted. And youre telling me FPS games are more complex than WoW? LOOOL, the only people who play WoW are the people who have been playing for years, it takes years to get good at wow, it takes months to get good at an fps game. You also have to learn what every ability does and how theres 20 buttons on your screen that you have to press as well
I have been playing wow for more years than I want to mention and I agree.. noobs come on thinking it will be a breeze and they never really gear up before they give up. All the pros even ven himself make it seem easy.. I'm a pvper only so let me say it is not easy and i seldom do arenas.. I love bg's and world pvp. it's a struggle to gear.. didn't used to be.. I dislike the direction pvp has gone, and I don't want to do pve.. Ven has a grip on how the average player feels. Pika I think your so beyond the average player you don't see it.
There are games that I like to watch like League of legends it is clear what is going on cool to see whan someone does some high level playing... but I don't like to play it anymore. And I hate watching WoW gameplay cuz I don't understand what is going on, who is winning... but I like playing WoW myself. The gameplay is great.
I agree with so much of what you said man. I wish you could get your points into other of the bigger creators heads. You are so right about the negativity and toxicity. It has long been my opinion that the "old guard" that have direct contact with devs have pushed the game into bad directions over the years, and no willingness to change. I appreciate this video and speaking your truth.
Pika it’s 100% normal to have a lot of Addons even at low rating. I played without Addons when I first got into arena a couple years ago but then I saw some RUclips videos because I wanted to get past 1500 and they all say to get Addons. There’s so much that goes into retail WoW. The biggest problem with the game in my opinion is that you can’t tell what’s going on. There so many buttons and abilities and passives in the game and it’s impossible to know what’s happening unless you’ve played the game for a long time and you have Addons.
@@rahundsigmawell 1.8 is nothing And now in shuffle times its even easier to Hit 1.8 just to olay PvE in the lobby I always played alone even before shuffle And See mate And enemie cooldowns i want. Increased my rating from Stuck 2200 to glad Its a huge difference
also the issue with wow is that "low rating" means nothing sometimes,you will go against +++ teams gettting boosted/RMT.... this is the elephant in the room that he ofc wont address...
I will add one more thing. I am a new player. I've been playing for a few months. I find players very toxic, and not only that. No one is helping you. If by any chance you are with someone in a group, PvP and you make a mistake, they just kick you out. Probably WoW players were born taught how to play and the others are not worthy of attention.
I started wow in shadowlands for the first time ever. The learning curve was Insane and PvE was so boring but shitting on someone in PvP was sick. I played hunter at first until I kept getting shit on from rogues, then I found pika and palumor and learned as much as I could and then found a mage and we became good friends using voice and after months of grinding and learning we hit 1950 in 2s and it was the most amazing feeling. Then I went to hit 1950 on my hunter, a warrior, mage, and feral. But none of my IRL friends want to put in any time to even level let along grind and learn pvp. It’s a real shame. Shouldn’t have to be forced to jump through so many hoops to just pvp. I hope solo ques pop, and I’m down as fuck for no addons
its the 37 key binds for a spec and mastering the rotations to be competitive that make it difficult for new players. ive tried to bring friends over to it and they are overwhelmed and get frustrated after a few months then give up.
You could basically 'log in and play' during MoP. The amount of people I got to start playing was stupid lol and it was easy for them to learn. now, when I don't play for a patch, I feel like I don't wanna play as there's so much I need to catch up with and do lol i couldnt imagine being a new player.
I think gear difference in pvp is a big stopper for most people. I would jump on a healer an Q right now if I didn't have to grind out gear for the next 2 weeks.
It's not really an issue of it being complicated gameplay wise, it's just not straight forward enough to simply play the game so the barrier to entry is incredibly high. Pika mentions Counter-strike, and how a new player wouldn't get a kill because it's complicated like WoW, which is true, but the difference from WoW is the fact that a new player immediately has a chance to at least *try*, you simply download the game, which is free, and press the competitive button, it's as simple as that. In WoW's case if you want to try competitive PVP, like Venruki said, you have to buy the game, pay a subscription, make a character, level that character, build that characters talents, gear that character, and then find players to play with or wait in solo shuffle for 30 minutes, as well as understand add-ons. You can see the issue here for new players.
No, csgo also has requirements to play competitive. It's less time required, but what would someone expect of an MMO? Nobody picking up WoW or any other MMO on planet earth is thinking "Hmm i want this mmo, i hope i can play ranked pvp the second i download it" People have incredibly fake expectations of what they THINK new players feel, when people like Ven haven't spoken to any real number of "new" players on the topic. This game handholds you all the way to current content, something nearly no other MMO if even any other MMO does. WoW isn't complicated or too complex. We were all new at some point and worked our way from there. New players will always go through the same thing because it's all new to them! Also as someone with thousands of CSGO under the belt. It's far more difficult to get "good" at cs than it is WoW pvp. We talk about "what is all of this" in terms of addons, but don't mention that the addons literally take away 90% of the complexity 🤣 the game plays itself!
The biggest learning curve is figuring out all the other classes cds. If you don’t know what convoke does or what ascendance does/looks like you will die instantly.
So many good points made by Pika in this vid. Normal people aren’t min maxing with all these addons and rotation stuff and still get 95% of their performance. The negative stigma and downers around the game are the main reason that new people aren’t playing. Also never considered how much I put into my fps gaming when I do that (setup, peripherals, settings, etc.). Something which people don’t bring up at all is that you probably need to play for 20-30 hours in any of these games to unlock ranked which is the “main mode”. Easily could level and gear a character in less than 10h in WoW.
Pika's wrong in this one. When he mentions peripherals, arm placement, etc., it is just over the top. All you need to touch and enjoy an fps game is a mouse and keeb which don't even need to be good ones. As fir 10 hours to level and gear a character? Lmao. No new player is even leveling to 70 in 10 hours man. Wow is just harsh to new players just as other games of the genre.
It's so refreshing to finally see higher caliber players disowning addons. I've basically played with no addons my whole time on WoW. Minor exceptions like details or questie occasionally. But never performance enhancing ones. No DBM, no Gladius, etc. I generally keep up with or out right out perform people that are using addons. Two things that weren't addressed: A) Just as going from full addons to no addons would cause a dip in performance, going from no addons to full addons can have that same effect. But as long as you're used to using no addons, not having that crutch, you get used to actually having to pay attention. B) Addons, as much as I hate them, actually help make the game more playable in the sense that it helps close that gap between bad players and good ones and creates a bigger pool of players to do content with. If you kill addons, you literally kill 50%+ of the player base because they simply can not fnction without them. And that's before players that quit because they hate the UI (I hate the new UI, I want a classic option).
With the original release there was a lot of stuff to learn but also lots of content to enjoy and fewer changes to classes. Compare that with today and the improvements/nerfs/mechanic changes etc that happen constantly, and instead of incremental improvements that can be worked on over time, there are sweeping alterations that don't allow for any anything other than devoting more time to stay current and competitive. Throw in all the add-ons and the game is no longer for the casual gamer logging on for an hour or so every so often. I remember the satisfaction I used to get from getting gear that gave me just an incremental tiny improvement. Now nothing you play for is meaningful because its all rapidly transient and making any effort is pointless because it will be worthless very quickly. It was nice knowing I could do something over time that would eventually be meaningful and help me in other parts of the game for a while. Even grinding for something was okay because the reward would be good for a while at least. Anyway - the game isn't going back there so at least I have some good memories LOL.
Its the skill management that makes it difficult. No other game has the balls to give every class 30 unique and useful skills to use and if they do they make you choose at most 6 at a time.
To help healers, blizzard should impliment something that tells DPS when it was their fault haha. Something pops on screen "you died with wall".... "you LOS'd your healer while they were CC'd"... "dont grief the healer, you know what you did"
I think the real issue with WoW PvP is the amount of CC in the game. If you look at Vanilla most classes didn't have spammable CC and not a lot of classes had stuns. But with each expansion came more CCs and more stuns to the point where if a meta comp was good enough you literally couldn't even play the game, and pretty much every class now has spammable CC/chain CC ability. Look at teams like TSG or RMP in Wrath - TSG's comp was built off a burst opening that almost no one could survive as the healer literally couldn't cast a single spell if done right. RMP comp is literally a comp built around CC - where they win by not letting the other team play and that's been the best comp in the game since I could remember (haven't seriously PvP'd since wrath so idk what the best comps are these days). Its one of the more asinine concepts I've ever seen a game incorporate. Take most of the CC out of the game and let people play the game in PvP and it'd be light years more fun.
They need to add solo queue RBGs. Queuing into a BG is a lot less daunting for players than an arena match. There’s more room to not be a great player, you can have a big or a small impact on the match, you don’t need to play frame perfect, there’s down time between fights and defending flags, it’s not just GOGOGO the second the doors open, people enjoy doing objective based game modes. IMO they should have 2 options for RBG. One should be a team and the other is solo or small group queues. If a team has 7 out of 10 players, they can queue and pick up 3 pugs who are solo queuing. At the end of a match they can choose to invite them to the team and push higher or let it cycle new players in until they find a good fill. It sucks being in RBG-LFG looking for 1 healer or tank for an hour and 7, 8, 9 people are just chilling waiting. I personally hate arenas but love PvP, I imagine there’s a ton of players like me who just don’t enjoy cooldown trading and optimized play for PvP. We still want PvP gear and to have a cool rank titles though and RBG fills that void.
They'll never do it but I think there should be a guild wars style system where you can make any class and try them at a basic level straight away in max level PvP. Just to educate yourself and see how classes play and what they do. Have a 3 tier system for gear level, 1-basic /2-honor /3-conquest
@27:00 you can 100% play pve without addons. it just requires a lot more attention than it used to. even heroic raiding, no addons needed. once you get to higher mythic keys though, yeah you need addons. but raiding needs none.
I think you're kind of missing the point. Yes there is a huge skill difference if you join an FPS as a new player. But in wow, there is a time gate with leveling, then when you finally get max level and you can PvP, there is an objective disadvantage with your gear, skill and UI all at once. If you don't have at least bare minimum of addons, you're at a disadvantage. You don't have PvP gear, so vs ppl who do you're at a disadvantage. Then there is the skill diff that is present in other games. That's the problem with wow PvP. In other games, you just work on the skill as you play. If I play an FPS, my guns won't be doing lower dmg to you because you've played longer. They do the same damage. In wow, you have so many layers to it, and that's really intimidating for new players. Having better gear literally makes you stronger, putting new players at an objective disadvantage from the start.
Wow needs a permanent arena tournament realm where all PvP/PvE gear is available to equip upon character creation. Then you can jump right into pvp without all the extra time investment just to begin to be competitive. Crazy they haven’t done this yet.
They should just do what GW did and make a PVP mode that you can just make a max level, get full gear and go instantly. Without that WoW is a fucking grind that I dont need.
Bro you can literally get level 80 in a night and full honor the next night and cap conquest the next night. A three day weekend can get you caught up to R1s, other than crafted algari shit. It's never been less of a grind than it is right now. And there's no increased conq caps, t2 weapons etc, it's never been easier from a "grind" and perpetual disadvantage standpoint.
Solo shuffle IS the best Mode
The most underrtted thing they never talked about was, the abilities you needed to remember from other classes, otherwise you become dog food anyway.
That comes with playing the game it’ll take some time I don’t even have to try to recognize what the abilities in the game do for every class I just know
Well done Ronald, you’ve cracked it. Proud of you. It really is that simple everyone. No issues here.
@@effortlessGFX why are you being an asshole all I said was it comes with time there’s no need to rush that I don’t see how you view my comment as me trying to say it’s an easy fix or something
I think blizzard should add their own interface to show you enemy class defensives or what not
Omnibar let’s you scroll through every class cd in their menu and check off the ones you want icons for, even if you don’t use the icons, it’s a quick way to comb through all the classes and see major offensives and defensives
34:05 - I could hear that dial up modem struggling.
I disagree with Pika here. He mentioned first time in Apex he got 1 kill in an hour, but how long would it take to get an arena kill from first downloading WoW? It would be days or weeks until you're levelled and geared enough to get there so I think in terms of accessibility Wow is much harder to break in to. Also the amount you have to keep track of in arena is crazy. There is a lot to keep track of in high end fps shooters but WoW is another level with DRs, cooldowns and set ups. Maybe it's because I'm better at fps than arena but even just to get to something easier like KSM would be harder than to get a foothold in an fps imo.
I have been playing WoW since the beginning, sometime in 2004. And man, I gotta agree that it's not easy just to pick up and play these days.
Been out for a few months due to medical issues. I came back and damn - I don't have a clue about all this new Proff stuff or Proff Orders etc...
Not to mention where I'm supposed to go, what to do and about 100 more questions. I'll figure it out having a WoW background, but dayuuuum this 10.0 and up is crazy AF! ??? Prolly not.
4:35 I'm sorry but this was advanced level cope. Talking about monitor settings, desk position, graphics settings, disabling vsync, and 90% of what you mentioned is for every game you're playing on PC including WoW, not just FPS games.
In fact half of what you said applies to anyone who just uses a computer every day and decides to optimize their experience.
WoW is the only game I have played in history that requires me to install 3rd party software to make the game playable.
It's honestly one of the reasons I am hesitant to reinstall the game when a new xpac drops, because I think of how tedious and annoying installing or updating addons is going to be.
WoW is also the only game where I'm required to pay $15 a month just to log in, whereas most other popular multiplayer games are literally free with cosmetic shop. (WoW has both somehow)
Aim Labs is the only relevant comparable point, and I personally don't use it anymore because playing the actual game will ultimately be better practice anyway.
It's not a requirement at all, whereas addons in WoW is absolutely 100% a requirement.
Venruki was right here brother even though I love your content and you're the goat.
I might watch the occasional video, but I'm not playing the game for the main reasons he mentioned.
Saying "you wouldn't get 2 kills in cs:go" isn't analogous because that's due to a lack of skill, not a lack of completing the time gated tasks to be competitively viable.
Imagine if your gun did 30% less damage than the enemy team because they played more last month. The game would die in a week. People outside the WoW community don't put up with that shit. Also imagine this 30% debuff ON TOP of there being a skill gap, and that's WoW arena for new players.
Every human recreation that has withstood the test of time has a skill gap, but WoW specifically requires you to grind before your skill even becomes a relevant variable.
You're the best rogue of all time besides maybe Reckful, and I would 100% beat you every single time if I'm in full conquest + embellishments and you're in random blues you got from leveling.
That's not skill, and it's not the idea of fun to most people trying to get into the game.
his brain is so assimilated that he can only see the world with this POV,like a matrix screensaver.
imagine writing an essay in a youtube comment section no one is going to read this shit. shut up bro
I like wow!Probably becouse I paly with my brother and we have watched the movie,and been playin off and on since mop!
As a returning arena player who brought a bunch of new friends to WoW with them, Ven is absolutely right.
It's not complicated you just need high and efficient apm. You have to actually learn what other classes can do. It's not accessible at 2k, but it shouldn't be accessible at 2k. Honestly, it's less complicated now despite the increase of abilities. The game has gotten easier not harder. And they fixed the gearing issues that made everyone under 2.2 stuck in a perpetual disadvantage for 3 months of the season because of conq cap and t2 weps. The game is simpler.. no borrowed power, no t2, no conq cap increase. More abilities doesn't mean it's more difficult. Like, the game is straight up simpler to be decent at. You can get level 80 and full honor gear in a single sleepless night if you wanted to - it's never been like that before even back to cata. talent builds, general strats, positioning, addons, etc have never been more instantly accessible than right now. literally all u need is omnibar and sarena and a willingness to not get handed 2.2 for free or just roll a feral.
You open Valorant you queue for a game.
You open League/Dota you queue for a game.
You open wow and pay monthly to do chores because the minigame we like to play is trapped in a MMO.
Wrong as of DF. Even Shadowlands had minimal amounts of chores for PvP. But DF is full gear in 5 hours playtime at max level.
@@trivial50 "But DF is full gear in 5 hours playtime at max level." Uhh define full gear? Full honor gear with embellishments? Sure, but with how long epic bgs can last, 20-30 minutes each, 5 hours is probably not right. 6-7 hours, in other words, a full day of playtime, maybe. To even become competitive.
Tier? No. Full conquest? Hell no, unless you got a good teammate to play with to spam arenas with.
@@trivial50 it can be even quicker depending on wins / weekly events
MINIGAME trapped in a MMO, Just brilliant!
@@trivial50only 5hours, after max level. Guess i must be glad. In cs go, i can open the game on a brand new account, and just play pvp, same on dota, lol, valorant... 😂😂😂😂
57:10 That just clicked... You're an awesome person dude, thank you. I will pay that forward when I play WoW next.
As a healer i started in solo shuffle. I am so fkn bad but solo shuffle gave me the confidence and experience to try to join 3s. I wish diminishing returns and party cooldowns were base line in the ui
Blizz would be really smart to incorporate some of the well used PVP ui mods into the interface as a way to assist new players.
Try to start as Dps in solo shuffle you will log out waiting for Que times
Absolutely. DR and cooldown tracking and trading should be clarified much more in the standard UI. Also, all the pvp specific tuning and ability changes in different modes. You have to keep up with current patch notes and all that just to have a slight clue what is happening
Soon as you make a mistake, or are just outplayed as a healer in 2's or 3's people start rage quitting. It's really not easy to get into unless you are in a guild with people who don't have the maturity of toddlers.
How to resolve much of this complexity: transform all continuous damage (dots) into singular types, that is, Vampiric + Unstable would be a DOT SHADOW (stackavel or something along those lines, becoming a single stack, so I don't need to know that the DOT Vampiric is from Priest and Unstable is from Lock). Another thing is to do the same thing with CC's, if I give a rogue STUN, it's the same thing as a pala stun, as it's the same thing as a warrior stun, etc... This way it's easy to know when you're stunned regardless of the class and ease of knowing which skills besides DR's.
"Ah, but the pala stun is magical and the rogue stun is physical, you can't dispel it...", fuck it, it does 2 different stuns, one magical and one physical. good!
Pika is vastly underestimating how much prep is needed to even play comp WoW PvP compared to your avg comp FPS. Leveling, gearing, setting up basic addons (arena frame + dr tracker at least), finding someone to play with to even get started at low rating. You dont even need all the fancy macros/WAs etc but the barriers are still massive.
Yeah hes missing the point completely lol, obviously there is a learning curve to games. but you have to do and add so much shit to play wow. its not even close, but he did read a comment that said cope, and he is full of copeium for sure
i know im late but him comparing it to fps games and their settings was some of the biggest cope ive heard today. As a new player i can tell you this game is not new player friendly at all lmao.
Literally all of that is a basic part of mmorpgs.
If you don't like that this genre isn't for you
@@harrisonbannerman Addons are not a basic part of mmorpgs. WoWs design is so bad it makes them nearly required. other games its for simple quality of life or just aesthetics. Also not as much prep for other mmos as much as wow. Also if you read okandokandast they are comparing it to fps. Has nothing to do with whether they like it or not, its just a comparison that pika is claiming is the same, which it isnt. Setting up your peripherals and your Game Settings is something people do for every game(even single player ones).
Sure, the issue however is that competitive PvP games don't work when no one's playing them, and people don't play because the "do tons to get started PvPing" genre doesn't appeal to a sufficient amount of PvPers.
This (along with a myriad of other reasons making PvP in WoW awful) causes the regular negative spiral of people quitting due to not enough people playing that we're currently starting to see.
great rogue analysis. skill class
I WANNA BE LIKE PIKABOO WHEN I GROW UP TOO!
The FANBASE is what scares new people away, not the game.
The devs really are trying their best with the game itself.
Something I told a friend who stuck to 2v2 rated and didnt try much of Solo Shuffle was games are usually 4-2, 2-4 or 3-3 for dps while for healers its usually 6-0 or 0-6. DPS are playing a game of figuring out who the weakest player is on the match while healers are competing directly with the enemy healer, as a DPS you're usually trying to scrap a win in one of the 3 rounds with the worst player to go positive while a skill gap between both healers means the best healer will roll the enemy healer 6-0.
You end up playing 6 rounds having a net positive or negative or 1 game if you did not go even and then you're back to waiting for another 40 minutes.
I think the easiest solution would be enabling 2v2 with 4 DPS players if there's no healers queueing up, 2v2 is a degenerate bracket but it sure beats alt tabbing for 40 minutes then getting into a game and you're also complete zoned out because you took a very long break from your last game and need to warm up again to play your best.
No game is even close to as hard to get into as WoW
Venruki is 100% right. Hence the low player count and hardly any new players.
Hes not 100% right, he backs up his argument with biased opinions, but he doesnt criticise his argument. If a new player would go right into pvp, first they would need to pay for a sub. Then they would also need to know what their buttons do. If they would die immediately maybe they would quit the game right away. Evrryone I know dont play wow because of the subscription fee. Not about anything else. Wow is about being rewarding in order to keep players satisfied and in order to keep them in the game. To keep paying sub
@@Vikwak If you can't afford 15$ a month then you shouldn't be playing video games. You need to manage your finances better and get your life back on track. WoW has saved me money by playing it. I spend hundreds of hours on a game thats 15$ a month compared to buying a game for 70$ and beating it in a week.
@@gansta432 Exactly this. 15 a month is $60 in 4 months, which is equal to buying 3 new games per year. It's one of the cheapest games to play outside of F2P, as long as you don't fall into microtransactions
He’s wrong lol simple youre taking this from a dude who’s been on Diablo for most of the WoW ssn hasn’t even gotten to 2200 yet. He catering to the toxic shitters who are hard stuck and will just complain instead of get better lol
@@Notmytwin lmao "toxic shitters"
14:50 this is why i havent run a single mythic dungeon or raid since battle for azeroth
He's so right about how unwelcoming and negative the community is... sure the game has had problems for a while. But the more players coming in the more feedback on these issues we get.
This is called Karma. This is what inevitably happens to businesses that don't listen to customer feedback. WoW players complaints have gone unanswered for years, and this is the result. Potential new customers stay away. Sucks for the loyal existing customers, but it is what it is.
So true I literally came back from a pretty long break on Friday and while leveling a did a dungeon, the one where you fly around to the diff spots I don’t know the name but I didn’t have my dragon flying yet and instead of them explaining that I could use the fp I was called “a useless waste of ducking time” and booted. People are ridiculous it was a reg dungeon
@@Literofcola77pvers are toxic due to mythic plus
very true, blizzard execs actually hacked my pc and made me tell new and learning players they're trash and to quit the game, wasn't my fault@@oldmoney1022
Fresh Heroic raid? Ask for curve. Now you have blocked new players from accessing that content. So there goes your favourite games popularity. 3 years later stupid curve will mean nothing. Blizzard has to fix this somehow.
41:33 this is why we need add-ons or to integrate their functionality in the game, like clique, and to some extend just for CDs you can take everything else away, anything else that it's not cosmetic or adds non-combat functionality i mean and i am probably fine for the most part but add-ons are not really the main issue right now
One of the saddest things that ever happened to me in wow was: I got my wife to play an evoker. We queued the first week the class was out (in DF prepatch), I was excited for her to try it. It was a heroic random queue for uldaman. And the pug was such an asshole to her, said she "shouldn't be queuing heroic without knowing her class", she never played again. Again, this was a heroic lfg..where on earth else would she learn prevoker if not in a dungeon >_
Similar thing happened to my wife. I’m sorry to hear that. Wow community is so toxic to new players.
this is why most of my friends quit too.
@@baro6447 =( sad. I play high-ish keys myself and I try my best to help people in a meaningful /constructive way without being mean. I am sorry that your friends left because of the toxicity.
Well… why didn’t you que for a normal dungeon first😭😭
@@datemike1184 agreed. Should’ve had her heal normal dungeons atleast for a few days and get gear before trying a heroic
I think Pika is not understanding the point Venruki made. Venruki isn't comparing the complexity and difficulty of wow vs other games. What Venruki is saying is that just getting properly setup (character, gear, add-ons) takes an eternity in wow. And in other games, all you do is press play and start actually playing.
The main problem with WoW is the fact that you need outside websites to play the game optimally. The lack of in game information on how to play your toon whether that's pve or pvp is really bad. A lot of tooltips are just plainly labelled wrong, no where does it tell you what you should be aiming for gear wise. Good luck finding out what diminishing returns are. New players need more information to make their journey a smoother experience.
try path of exile
This goes for Venruki's example as well: Counterstrike, on the surface, looks like a very simple game. But 80% of players are still in silver/gold (the lowest ranks). If you really want to play like the pros, you have to take into account your and your enemy's economy, know your timings, know your flashes/smokes, play on sound etc. which - you guessed it - also requires some form of external help like the websites you'r talking about. One could almost say that there's enough handholding in WoW to make it just as "easy" to just pick up and play as CSGO.
@@robbin2331 That's completely fair, but I feel like it's harder in WoW. CSGO only has maybe 20 weapons and 5 grenades, that every player can buy. WoW has 40 abilities per class, with an added racial ability, borrowed power (haven't played lots of DF so not sure if it still has it). Me as an "experienced" WoW player it's not that overwhelming, but I can imagine WoW being way more overwhelming than CSGO for new players.
That being said, CSGO doesn't have PvE, thus learning the game requires you to play with 4 others against 5 others. Whereas in WoW you can learn the game at your own pace while leveling.
@@robbin2331i think valorant is a better example of a game that’s extremely new player/casual friendly. csgo u still need to know lineups at this point because of the older player base, but with valo they took a lot of the pressure off by having smokes be just point and click. yeah you can learn like molly lines up but i don’t think it’s really that impactful until like literal pro play/high immortal/radiant. i think establishing a stronger foundation in wow would be much healthier for the longevity of the game and to introduce new players to the game - just take away all this extra shit that is really unnecessary and let people do what they wanna do, which really is m+/raiding/pvp. i think blizzard should look at the good things from classic servers and live servers and combine them to make a genuinely enjoyable game again.
@@derlou88 yeah PoE is an even worse version of needing outside software and information in order to play the game. Casuals never have a chance. I've tried getting like 10 of my friends to play the game and only 1 has ever even made it to endgame, yet all of them play wow endgame at at least a semi-hardcore manner.
bfa was fine, no one died because tanks were viable (never should be) and healer output was insane, healers were the issue. ssn 1 bfa was actually fine.
I started WoW this year, if you have the right friends helping it’s really not that hard to start learning.
what do you main?
I started this year too and you dont even need to friends. Getting gear is so easy.
whats you 2v2 arena rating ? what class are u playin ? im playing wow since start with some gaps for some time breaks. and stil lcant say im a monster at pvp. im playing sub rogue now on WOTLK. you need about few years to get good at pvp. at least you are not playing 100 arena matches every day at least for a 100 days. PVE is for dummies in wow. dont compare it to arena ). its deferent world.
@@LegitOoter the game isnt balanced around 2v2.
I was using Omnicd in M+ but it broke when i started playing pvp. It makes it hard AF but i also now know the sound of a lot of abilities. i wish it would just work but it isn't terrible
add ons requirements is the reason i quit
this game used to feel like a job at times. so much to know, so much to do. i miss it but lets be real, it can be a time sink
in pvp now you have to do nothing , the problem its the soloshuffle q time for dps
takes 2 hours to gear now
its only a time sink if you let it be tbh
game easily has more to know now than it ever has. Which is part of the difficulty in learning; dont stack the right stuff, your damage is pitiful.
unlocking 2 champion in lol its the same time if not more as get honor gear atm
Started this year, doing pretty well so far in rated pvp
They need to give new players a pre arena obstacle crash course or tutorial where it puts you into a arena with bots and it teaches you basic information such as CC chains using defensives.
ah yes, make it easier.
yeah thats the whole point...so more people can actually start arena and not dive head first into the hardest pvp game with 0 guidance and have to look up a million guides to be able to even play.@@WhyDidYouChange
@@WhyDidYouChange People like you are exactly why the game is DYING. You gatekeep the community, belittling new players instead of helping them. And then you turn around and wonder why your solo shuffle queues are upwards of 2 hours. You do know that not everyone else has played WoW for the last 20 years and memorized every ability and interaction, right? As if teaching new players the basics and fundamentals of the game is going to impact you in any way whatsoever.
@@JonezBBQ Whats so bad about learning the game the same way we did? Is it the drop of average intelligent quotia? Attention span? Or maybe, majority of players spent 10+ years learning, and are still learning new things, so it would be better to spoonfeed the experience to new players, rather than have them wander and fish for 4 hours straight, like we used to do? No matter how thin you cook a pancake, there's still two sides
@@WhyDidYouChangebrain dead take
6:30 into this video and I can already say I love guy. Chad takes
While I 100% agree with counterstrike and how you wouldn't be able to even get a kill, your at least still playing the game mode you want to play. IN wow, theres hour supon hours of content you are forced to play before even having the option to play arenas. AND THEN theres barriers like gear and teammates. Big difference.
yeah he completely missed the point there and was trying to compare his experience as a professional player to what it would take to be a professional in an FPS. I don't think he was thinking about the casual Andy there.
Well if you wanna play comp, you gotta hit a certain level in cs and then you gotta WIN 10 games to even get your placement. So if you wanna play comp in cs then you're not able to just get on it and play the mode you wanna play
the fury warrior shade killed me ngl
Idk man but he explained his view of it so well
39:00 i agree MAKE THE QUEUES POP.
i miss the days of MoP where i could play whatever and nobody would give a toss. shit was just fun to play
You hit it Pika I am 44 years old and have been playing wow since Wotlk. I go to work 12 hrs a day and come home and try to play I don’t want it to be like a second job so I play casual plus I have come to terms that I won’t ever be at the top b/c my awareness and reactions r not what they used to be. So I have went back to play Wotlk a slower pace more laid back. Now my kid said she does not like classic b/c it is to slow so she likes retail so they r to me headed in the right direction for the younger generation but they need to keep working to crack down on the toxic/jerks/trolls or they will run them off.
42 minutes in, and yeah the gap between top level play, and "average" play, is immense.
something this guy doesn't seem to get, is that players getting into the game, aren't playing "top level play". getting into the game is easy, the gameplay is really simple, all classes are easy to understand (some more than others, clearly), so on and so forth.
there are issues, big ones, notably with just how much content there is, and the almost complete lack of direction the game gives.
but playing classes isn't the issue in getting people into the game.
i think the largest issues are, like you've said, people, including those playing it, constantly talking shit about it, AND the people playing it.
and the fact that it's very overwhelming to get into a game, and have literally multiple worlds worth of content in front of you, and the game basically just says "go for it".
Im a new player myself, bought the game about 6 months ago and coming from guild wars all I can say is that WoW comunity is... just weird. How can someone love and hate a game so much at the same time? It is a great game but some content creators really need to chill, Im so tired of tier list and stuff like that. Just play what its fun for you unless you are a WFR raider 😂
This is huge actually, thanks for your perspective. I very, very much agree. So much rage for a video game, yet such a dedicated following. For an optional video game. People need to remember it’s fun, and act like it, or they need to quit! It’s like they are stuck
@11:36 "But I am a pro and I am half-asian." -pikaboo
For 3v3 you might not need all those addons if you have voice coms and a vocal team, but you need most of them.... And then for shuffle you need Sarena and the omni combo for sure... and the healer cc alert...
If you think you dont its because you forgot what its like to play at those levels... and while top players know what to look for and dont need so many addons, the same cannot be said of the casual players.
Also i love Arcane Mage, but I just get clobbered in arenas because I'm trying to do differential equations while the DH and War are finishing their addition tables and going out to recess. Fun spec though.
I played through all of season 1 of dragonflight - I'm a very competitive person but no matter how hard I tried to get into PVP I just couldn't convince myself to devote all of the time needed to figure out what the actual fuck is going on lol.
Its literally just repetition lmao. Play the game and even remotely pay attention and you’ll figure it out. Everyones of the mindset these days of “well why cant they just hold my hand THE ENTIRE TIME so I dont have to do anything myself”. Long gone are the days where looking something up was the FUN part of playing games like WoW. Now its “boohoo I have to use my brain”
@@Pympchimpinlowkey tho you right 🤣
I don't see how this is different from other games.
No, its not boohoo I have to use my brain. Its I have multiple jobs working 50-60 hours per week and I don't have time to dedicate to making a fully fleshed out and prepared character for end game content or at least the time to dedicate to stick to the curve of the player base that has lots of free time...the least I can get is a mode where everyone is balanced so skill Is the only determining factor in an objective based game mode. No, I join and there's many fully decked out players erasing all of the unprepared characters(skill means very little here) all the time and its overwhelming, discouraging, and boring to say the least. If Bliz wants a more fleshed out community as opposed to elites and average joes primarily than they have to stream line and balance. Not prioritizing our money, but really considering our time spent and our experience quality.
@@jixer1495 It takes 5 hours to get a character basically max geared if you queue some 2s/3s. Enormous amounts of free time is not necessary. Time taken to actually get good at the game is not a chore. It is the actual basic content of the game.
I'm trying to do my part in making the game more welcoming. I made an alt and wanted to farm some conquest. Found a rogue who it turns out didn't have any addons installed, soon found out he needed help with bindinds, and macros. Its few days now that I take some time out of my day to help him get his foot in the arena. Im by no means a great player, but I have played on and off for a while and even just offering someone to play with them helps them out a lot. Sometimes you gotta know when to be a sweaty gamer and push, but also when to make choices that will help the community grow.
They need to have a permanent arena tourney server with max lvl and good gear
Agreed. Maybe you need a max level character to access it or something, but an accessible tourney realm would make PvP so much more... Accessible.
supatease has great ideas around this topic.
@@Sebastianmol7 they use to have one back in the day. It was legit idk what happened.
They literally dont, you can ready your character for pvp in less than 24h playtime, and this is an rpg afterall. Stop propagating instant gradification! For fuck sake gearing is so fast in dragonflight that i for the first time have like 5x same class and i work full time
@@Undertaker257 not everyone plays dragon flight. So gear a char on bc in 24hr. Highly doubtful
its not JUST the queue times. WoW still had massive issues before solo shuffle even existed. I’m sure a lot of people were like me and had a friend who tried to get them into WoW, my friend begged me to play and it took like a month to even get to the point where I could play PvP with him. And when I did, I lost every game because I didn’t have gear. Then after quitting and starting about 4 or 5 times. I stuck through for about a month to get to level 120 and get conquest geared after days of losing to fully geared 1300s. I finally enjoyed WoW. Whereas I got recommended League one day, played it immediately, was on a level playing field with the people around me, and immediately got hooked for years.
Honestly another huge improvement to soloque in my opinion is PLEASE add RBGs solo que too, that rated ladder has also been corrupted by the same arena disease of exclusive group ques who single out everyone else and obliterate the competition, it’s becoming less and less fun if you don’t have gladiators helping carry your group. Solo que needs to solve many problems but I feel it also needs to expand past its boundaries if it is expected to have more potential in its longevity, give us RBG solo ques!
ayo 👀
We come from the future, solo queue rbg’s will be a thing
XD ikr, Dude I was happy af they announced that, def gonna be an improvement to the PvP community@@Th3_a_g4m3
The appeal of CS, Valorant, DayZ, etc., etc., is that you can log on fairly quickly, click your mouse and get an immediate response from the game for it. WoW being an MMO, that left click has like 15 per-requisites you gotta complete before it'll do anything of any import. Because MMO's require such a big time investment to get much of anything done, it also requires a huge return on that investment. Like I said earlier, FPS games, Arena Shooters, MOBA's, BR's, etc., etc., they all have a return on the time investment basically the moment you click something, which isn't the case with MMO's. If you don't have a lot of time to play, then it could literally take months to get a return of any substance on the time you invested into that particular character. Unfortunately for WoW, Blizzard hasn't provided much compensation for time spent in their game recently. That's why I've taken up permanent residence in Classic WoW/Season of Discovery because raids even with a bad group only take like 1 and a half hours at most, and there's no such thing as Resilience in Classic PvP making fights take way longer than they should, allowing classes like Druids and Paladins to become absolutely bullshit.
I think the CS comp is great to show the difference. I stopped playing WoW and jumped on CS and the difference of the learning curve is way different. If you get a Smurf in CS, yeah you’ll have a bad time, but that doesn’t happen that often. The amount of things to know in WoW to be good at PVP is 1,000 times more. Unless 1200 is your goal in 3s.
Try to strive for Faceit lvl 10. You'll think differently
@@Boss-ot1iy faceit lvl 10 isnt all that difficult
@dyner2369 Lmao. You definitely don't know rankings then wow kid. Faceit 10 is right below fpl
@@Boss-ot1iy if you think 2k elo is "right below fpl", then you're just delulu
@dyner2369 it's literally right below it lol. Watch Simple against other faceit 10 players and he's in fpl. You'd know this shit if you actually played the game or even kept up with it shitter
We had a 55 y/o guy who mainly played New World and Mortal Online 2 come join a few of us on WoW SoD, this was his first time ever playing WoW in general. He would get on youtube and watch WoW videos on how to play and he was getting mad flustered on how many addons he was told he needs and was super confused on how to set it all up. Myself and a few others told him to ignore that crap, gave him 3 addons that would give him some QoL and showed him how to set it up and then told him to play the game how he wanted to. Dude is now enjoying the piss out of the game and can't get him off it.
Moral of the story, just play the game. It's really good, don't mind the people who tell you what you need to do. Do what you want to do and I assure you, you'll enjoy it.
Sitting in 1600 with BiS for content and currency is what ruins pvp.
But bans in twitch chat when asked why
34:49 the thing is it’s not bad to be doing a least optimal rotations for safety reasons lol
Interesting to hear Pika's understanding (or lack of) regarding other video games. If you have never played ranked in League and then play it... you'll end up in games with 'icon clickers' and children - you WILL win 50% of your games. The same cannot be said for WoW
I tried start with leauge. Got flamed for being this Bad in 3 Games in a row and quit after. Its Not ez to start with lol today
I quit league ranked season 1 because I saw their bullshit MMR system right away. They are not afraid to put you with absolute new players to tank you're MMR to keep you in that state of flux so you keep coming back, or you just quit
Got a shit ton of time in league and my friends tried to start it recently. It's super toxic because to level to ranked you will meet so many smurfs that shit talk you after not giving you a single chance cus they just know spacing
@@mio7452 ye but they need to wait 3 month to level and 1 month to gear 3 month learning other characters, to be the same toxic shit as wow, they went to the Game took a look and then quit, as for wow You have to spend all that time and then quit cuz, queue to long, solo shuffle so toxic, bg is full of premade overgeared.! And You getting oneshotted Even with all the gear from bg, and let me tell You, not being able to play the Game till your fully gear is a fuking pain.!! SO yes a good intelligent person Will always choose to play any other Game that let You play with your friend Even if they have a long time in that Game already, cuz those types of Game is not base on gear or grinding, and in wow while You farm you get demolish while doing so.! By some premade bully overgeared farming You at the cementary.
you will also end up in games with literal bots on you team that dont press buttons meaning you will have to 4v5 while in a rank where the 3 other people on your team also dont really know what they are doing, on top of that in order to play ranked you have to get to level 30 first if you play the draft mode or now quickplay mode they dont care about MMR nearly as much and as a brand new player you could get matched up against someone that is in diamond, for example the 2023 world champs like 2 weeks after winning worlds played a normals game with the champs they were planning to get their skins on, since riot give out team skins if you win worlds, the other team in their normals game not a single player was above the rank of plat
WoW is so hard to get into because you will play on your own leveling up and when you get to max you will get into the worst arguments with people and get owned by everyone in regular battlegrounds and RBG you wont get invited. And trying to get gear while getting destroyed every game and worse if you end up horde your screwed.
I think PvP gearing is better than ever and honor gear being only 13 ilvl behind conquest gear makes PvP much more accessible
I started in March. I had played in Cata, MoP and Legion but I stopped playing till this March. I had never done proper arena pvp before though. I still don't know how to optimize omnibar or how to setup tellmewhen but gearing I figured out. Got full conquest for multiple chars and highest elo I got was 1900. I feel like a bit more playing and I'll get to 23-2400 or something. Once I figured it out it became really fun. (OH btw, I CANNOT figure out how to play rogue. I tried so hard I played so many games but it's so hard to keep track of who to kidney, cheap shot, gouge, blind and stuff...)
I laughed waaaay to hard at that im a professional gamer and half asian LMAO
And this is why Plunderstorm did so well. As a side note I jumped in to some PvP for the first time in years after playing some plunder, and I was like "WTF is going on"... and that is from a long term WoW player
Not only too complicated for new player. Even for veterans. Like seriously there is so much nonsens in this game. Billions of mounts, pets, achivements, items, rep, whatever. Also too many abilities. It's blown up. And a lot of good abilities don't exist anymore. Every class can also do everything for many addons now. Knockbacks, kicks, stuns, spints, jumps, it's just too much.
Mounts/Pets/Achievements and Rep have absolutely nothing to do with the topic of discussion. None of these have any impact on your actual gameplay. Mounts/Pets are miscellaneous and are just collectibles. Achievements are also just another thing for you to go do if you have nothing to go do. Rep hasnt been relevant for a very long time, it has nothing necessary unless you want collectibles/recipes. The game is very plug and play right now. Make your character 1-60 is irrelevant. 60-70 do your campaign. You’re now at end game and gearing is absurdly easy. The only part it gets confusing are the actual mechanics of the game and class abilities. Rep is account shared through all your toons same with mounts pets and achievements.
played wow from vanilla to cata, got glad in cata have played tens of thousands of arena games. i came back for dragonflight and played a couple games of solo shuffle before deciding i cba learning 400 new leap, dash, damage, healing, teleport, and wall cooldowns every single class has now. ill just raid log
I bet good money you stopped in wotlk and call yourself now a "veteran".
the player base is negative because the overall portion of the playerbase doesnt play the fotm rogue mage lock specs and warrior sometimes (mainly rogue lock)
id wager ud be pretty upset if sub was as awful as havoc has been all of SL and most of DF, or if rogue in general was as reliably mediocre as dk was/has been for awhile.
not to mention the silly fast times to kill atm cause people to rage even more with trying to figure why they died before being able to react. its unfun, and has been since post BFA.
To be decent at WOW PvP you do have to do everything Venruki said and get some years of practice. Good PvPers take for grated all the knowledge they know about the game such as it's classes, specs, comps exedra. To be good at an FPS or MOBA, play a couple of months if even that and you are good to go! Pikas comparison of what you have to do to be pro at an FPS is the equivalent of what you need to do to not be horrible at WOW PvP. So not horrible vs pro, but same amount of work, ruffly. :P
If you don't want to be horrible at any fps game, you have to put years, lol. Fps games are far more complex than wow. So many people hit 2100 in arena. Good luck hitting faceit 10 in cs, let alone fpl. Which is r1 in wow. The best players in the world play fps games and not wow
@@Boss-ot1iy ?? for fps games you only need to practice your aim and get good game sense to be good at it. To be good at WoW you need to do a ton of research about the game to learn how to get the best gear, best ruins, best stats which can take hours to understand or even days since it just mind boggles you, then you need to grind gear which may take months to get, then you need to install 4387929532 addons which may actually take days or even weeks to get used to those addons since theres just a bunch of stuff on your screen which you don't even understand, then you need to know every single class ability in the game, every single class debuff/buff so that youre able to pvp, just so that when you go into arena you don't get one shotted. And youre telling me FPS games are more complex than WoW? LOOOL, the only people who play WoW are the people who have been playing for years, it takes years to get good at wow, it takes months to get good at an fps game. You also have to learn what every ability does and how theres 20 buttons on your screen that you have to press as well
@@sah_sookagreed
12:32 you said it all right there.
i hope you do more react content. you are a smart charismatic guy, you are made for this
pro wow player turned react andy? idk man
@@Haonnnafter 1 reaction he's a react andy? Grow up
He does analyze and communicate everything way way better than anyone else in the community for sure. With humor too. Dudes really the goat of wow
@@bubsenseijebe2993 eh, xar is right there
React is the meta
IT WAS NEVER A PHASE! ITS A LIFESTYLE!
I have been playing wow for more years than I want to mention and I agree.. noobs come on thinking it will be a breeze and they never really gear up before they give up. All the pros even ven himself make it seem easy.. I'm a pvper only so let me say it is not easy and i seldom do arenas.. I love bg's and world pvp. it's a struggle to gear.. didn't used to be.. I dislike the direction pvp has gone, and I don't want to do pve.. Ven has a grip on how the average player feels. Pika I think your so beyond the average player you don't see it.
There are games that I like to watch like League of legends it is clear what is going on cool to see whan someone does some high level playing... but I don't like to play it anymore. And I hate watching WoW gameplay cuz I don't understand what is going on, who is winning... but I like playing WoW myself. The gameplay is great.
I agree with so much of what you said man. I wish you could get your points into other of the bigger creators heads. You are so right about the negativity and toxicity. It has long been my opinion that the "old guard" that have direct contact with devs have pushed the game into bad directions over the years, and no willingness to change. I appreciate this video and speaking your truth.
Love your positivity brother
Pika it’s 100% normal to have a lot of Addons even at low rating. I played without Addons when I first got into arena a couple years ago but then I saw some RUclips videos because I wanted to get past 1500 and they all say to get Addons. There’s so much that goes into retail WoW. The biggest problem with the game in my opinion is that you can’t tell what’s going on. There so many buttons and abilities and passives in the game and it’s impossible to know what’s happening unless you’ve played the game for a long time and you have Addons.
i get 1800 no problem with just bigdebuffs
@@rahundsigmawell 1.8 is nothing
And now in shuffle times its even easier to Hit 1.8 just to olay PvE in the lobby
I always played alone even before shuffle
And See mate And enemie cooldowns i want.
Increased my rating from Stuck 2200 to glad
Its a huge difference
@evoly9765 what addons do you use? Are they called 'see mate' and 'enemy cooldowns'? Ima check em out
also the issue with wow is that "low rating" means nothing sometimes,you will go against +++ teams gettting boosted/RMT....
this is the elephant in the room that he ofc wont address...
I will add one more thing.
I am a new player. I've been playing for a few months.
I find players very toxic, and not only that. No one is helping you. If by any chance you are with someone in a group, PvP and you make a mistake, they just kick you out. Probably WoW players were born taught how to play and the others are not worthy of attention.
I started wow in shadowlands for the first time ever. The learning curve was Insane and PvE was so boring but shitting on someone in PvP was sick. I played hunter at first until I kept getting shit on from rogues, then I found pika and palumor and learned as much as I could and then found a mage and we became good friends using voice and after months of grinding and learning we hit 1950 in 2s and it was the most amazing feeling. Then I went to hit 1950 on my hunter, a warrior, mage, and feral. But none of my IRL friends want to put in any time to even level let along grind and learn pvp. It’s a real shame. Shouldn’t have to be forced to jump through so many hoops to just pvp. I hope solo ques pop, and I’m down as fuck for no addons
That is good progress, well done.
its the 37 key binds for a spec and mastering the rotations to be competitive that make it difficult for new players. ive tried to bring friends over to it and they are overwhelmed and get frustrated after a few months then give up.
You could basically 'log in and play' during MoP. The amount of people I got to start playing was stupid lol and it was easy for them to learn. now, when I don't play for a patch, I feel like I don't wanna play as there's so much I need to catch up with and do lol i couldnt imagine being a new player.
One solution to Solo Shuffle ques could be 3 vs 3 and 2 vs 2 modes just for DPS.
I think gear difference in pvp is a big stopper for most people. I would jump on a healer an Q right now if I didn't have to grind out gear for the next 2 weeks.
its crazy to me that it used to be almost 1000% harder back in slands
Lmao it takes 2 days of bgs and a little gold to get 447 ilvl in arena. Get good kid.
@@jaycooney405 man not this vid mentioning how negative the wow playerbase is and you typing this shit out. do better
Two weeks? You can grind a full set of blue honor gear and be ilvl 434 in a day.
Bruh, it used to be months
I genuinely love wow but idk, after 3k hours it got boring :/
As for a new player, exploring is so mesmerizing.
It's not really an issue of it being complicated gameplay wise, it's just not straight forward enough to simply play the game so the barrier to entry is incredibly high.
Pika mentions Counter-strike, and how a new player wouldn't get a kill because it's complicated like WoW, which is true, but the difference from WoW is the fact that a new player immediately has a chance to at least *try*, you simply download the game, which is free, and press the competitive button, it's as simple as that.
In WoW's case if you want to try competitive PVP, like Venruki said, you have to buy the game, pay a subscription, make a character, level that character, build that characters talents, gear that character, and then find players to play with or wait in solo shuffle for 30 minutes, as well as understand add-ons.
You can see the issue here for new players.
No, csgo also has requirements to play competitive. It's less time required, but what would someone expect of an MMO? Nobody picking up WoW or any other MMO on planet earth is thinking "Hmm i want this mmo, i hope i can play ranked pvp the second i download it"
People have incredibly fake expectations of what they THINK new players feel, when people like Ven haven't spoken to any real number of "new" players on the topic. This game handholds you all the way to current content, something nearly no other MMO if even any other MMO does.
WoW isn't complicated or too complex. We were all new at some point and worked our way from there. New players will always go through the same thing because it's all new to them!
Also as someone with thousands of CSGO under the belt. It's far more difficult to get "good" at cs than it is WoW pvp. We talk about "what is all of this" in terms of addons, but don't mention that the addons literally take away 90% of the complexity 🤣 the game plays itself!
The biggest learning curve is figuring out all the other classes cds. If you don’t know what convoke does or what ascendance does/looks like you will die instantly.
So many good points made by Pika in this vid. Normal people aren’t min maxing with all these addons and rotation stuff and still get 95% of their performance.
The negative stigma and downers around the game are the main reason that new people aren’t playing.
Also never considered how much I put into my fps gaming when I do that (setup, peripherals, settings, etc.). Something which people don’t bring up at all is that you probably need to play for 20-30 hours in any of these games to unlock ranked which is the “main mode”. Easily could level and gear a character in less than 10h in WoW.
Pika's wrong in this one. When he mentions peripherals, arm placement, etc., it is just over the top. All you need to touch and enjoy an fps game is a mouse and keeb which don't even need to be good ones. As fir 10 hours to level and gear a character? Lmao. No new player is even leveling to 70 in 10 hours man. Wow is just harsh to new players just as other games of the genre.
You have to already be very good to get 95% of your performance in any aspect of the game without addons
@@empressqiyanaa6196 yep most people get 80%....
It's so refreshing to finally see higher caliber players disowning addons. I've basically played with no addons my whole time on WoW. Minor exceptions like details or questie occasionally. But never performance enhancing ones. No DBM, no Gladius, etc. I generally keep up with or out right out perform people that are using addons. Two things that weren't addressed:
A) Just as going from full addons to no addons would cause a dip in performance, going from no addons to full addons can have that same effect. But as long as you're used to using no addons, not having that crutch, you get used to actually having to pay attention.
B) Addons, as much as I hate them, actually help make the game more playable in the sense that it helps close that gap between bad players and good ones and creates a bigger pool of players to do content with. If you kill addons, you literally kill 50%+ of the player base because they simply can not fnction without them. And that's before players that quit because they hate the UI (I hate the new UI, I want a classic option).
With the original release there was a lot of stuff to learn but also lots of content to enjoy and fewer changes to classes. Compare that with today and the improvements/nerfs/mechanic changes etc that happen constantly, and instead of incremental improvements that can be worked on over time, there are sweeping alterations that don't allow for any anything other than devoting more time to stay current and competitive. Throw in all the add-ons and the game is no longer for the casual gamer logging on for an hour or so every so often. I remember the satisfaction I used to get from getting gear that gave me just an incremental tiny improvement. Now nothing you play for is meaningful because its all rapidly transient and making any effort is pointless because it will be worthless very quickly. It was nice knowing I could do something over time that would eventually be meaningful and help me in other parts of the game for a while. Even grinding for something was okay because the reward would be good for a while at least. Anyway - the game isn't going back there so at least I have some good memories LOL.
Its the skill management that makes it difficult. No other game has the balls to give every class 30 unique and useful skills to use and if they do they make you choose at most 6 at a time.
To help healers, blizzard should impliment something that tells DPS when it was their fault haha.
Something pops on screen "you died with wall".... "you LOS'd your healer while they were CC'd"... "dont grief the healer, you know what you did"
I think the real issue with WoW PvP is the amount of CC in the game. If you look at Vanilla most classes didn't have spammable CC and not a lot of classes had stuns. But with each expansion came more CCs and more stuns to the point where if a meta comp was good enough you literally couldn't even play the game, and pretty much every class now has spammable CC/chain CC ability. Look at teams like TSG or RMP in Wrath - TSG's comp was built off a burst opening that almost no one could survive as the healer literally couldn't cast a single spell if done right. RMP comp is literally a comp built around CC - where they win by not letting the other team play and that's been the best comp in the game since I could remember (haven't seriously PvP'd since wrath so idk what the best comps are these days). Its one of the more asinine concepts I've ever seen a game incorporate. Take most of the CC out of the game and let people play the game in PvP and it'd be light years more fun.
& The most important for ppl like me League is free to play not like wow where you have to pay for alot of shit before u start ur journey
queue gonna turn you all into philosophers
arcane in retail: piano on expert lvl
arcane in wotlk: 2 buttons
He already started naming add ons I dont use. I literally get a UI add on, WA, Details, Gladdy and thats it.
PvP is such a small amount of the player base. And it's been bad for casuals for forever. PvE WoW is great tho.
They need to add solo queue RBGs. Queuing into a BG is a lot less daunting for players than an arena match. There’s more room to not be a great player, you can have a big or a small impact on the match, you don’t need to play frame perfect, there’s down time between fights and defending flags, it’s not just GOGOGO the second the doors open, people enjoy doing objective based game modes.
IMO they should have 2 options for RBG. One should be a team and the other is solo or small group queues. If a team has 7 out of 10 players, they can queue and pick up 3 pugs who are solo queuing. At the end of a match they can choose to invite them to the team and push higher or let it cycle new players in until they find a good fill. It sucks being in RBG-LFG looking for 1 healer or tank for an hour and 7, 8, 9 people are just chilling waiting.
I personally hate arenas but love PvP, I imagine there’s a ton of players like me who just don’t enjoy cooldown trading and optimized play for PvP. We still want PvP gear and to have a cool rank titles though and RBG fills that void.
Zero to Hero with absolutely no external services or admit you're wrong :)
They'll never do it but I think there should be a guild wars style system where you can make any class and try them at a basic level straight away in max level PvP. Just to educate yourself and see how classes play and what they do. Have a 3 tier system for gear level, 1-basic /2-honor /3-conquest
@27:00 you can 100% play pve without addons. it just requires a lot more attention than it used to. even heroic raiding, no addons needed.
once you get to higher mythic keys though, yeah you need addons.
but raiding needs none.
I think you're kind of missing the point. Yes there is a huge skill difference if you join an FPS as a new player. But in wow, there is a time gate with leveling, then when you finally get max level and you can PvP, there is an objective disadvantage with your gear, skill and UI all at once. If you don't have at least bare minimum of addons, you're at a disadvantage. You don't have PvP gear, so vs ppl who do you're at a disadvantage. Then there is the skill diff that is present in other games. That's the problem with wow PvP.
In other games, you just work on the skill as you play. If I play an FPS, my guns won't be doing lower dmg to you because you've played longer. They do the same damage. In wow, you have so many layers to it, and that's really intimidating for new players. Having better gear literally makes you stronger, putting new players at an objective disadvantage from the start.
Such a good way of wording the issue, took my feelings on the issue and put into words👌
Id argue legion rotations were just as complex we were just like a decade younger
Bro that overwatch part about hanzo had me rolling
Most fun I had was playing ret pala in wotlk, just press the ability that comes of cd first and sometimes you press something that procs
Wow needs a permanent arena tournament realm where all PvP/PvE gear is available to equip upon character creation. Then you can jump right into pvp without all the extra time investment just to begin to be competitive. Crazy they haven’t done this yet.