The insufferable ones always look fat depressed lonely losers that based their whole personality on a dead game and come out with zero life skills except for complain record post. 💯
Pika is the only one who can watch a video for twenty minutes, eating a sandwich, completely confused the whole time, then come out with a conclusion that is much more insightful than either two people commenting on the subject before him
They were not talking out of their ass. While they have no clue about PVP they can look at those numbers and easily say, yup, the pvp participation is it's lowest and it's going down. You dont even need to compare to M+, just look at the data trend lines.
@@evg3nius But those numbers and graphs were crazy screwed. 24 thousand of games per week for the top 5% of pvp'ers? Call me crazy but that ain't all that bad. It's not as big as m+, clearly, but still doing alright.
Of course he is optimistic this is his job 😂😂 and it's not like he can do anything else. Bellular is annoying af but it's hardly controversial to point out that no one is playing retail. I think blizzard are in trouble when they move to classic cata and war within.
@kluasvt828 they didn't technically say it was bad, in fact they said it's okay. Just in comparison with the previous season its not holding as many players which is why in comparison its "dying"
Bro back in mop I was on the wow arena forums and arena junkies all thr time. I had arena forums up on the school laptop in class in 9th grade. I remember seeing a stat that in s14 or s15 the total number of characters that had played a game of arena was 250k - 300k. That's individual characters, not accounts. Pvp has never been popular in this game. However, it felt like it was back then. Pvp vendors in contested pvp zone, heaps of people used to sirlt in Elwynn and Durotar spam duelling all day. The entirety of mop I never even did SoO a single time, I was literally in Elwynn dueling all day and qing 2s. 100% agree that wow arena is just physically impossible to get into. I've played wow since fucking 2012 and got 2200 in s15 but can't queue arena for the life of me because the diehard 3s players I used to queue with dont play anymore and LFG is a joke. I actually met up with someone in real life that I met on wow. He ended up getting Gladiator eventually. That's the kind of person you need to know if you want to play 3s in this game.
Got away with what exactly? Both asmon and bellular haven't pvped in the last 2+ expansions. Bellular is a lore RUclipsr talking about random shit. Asmon is a variety streamer talking about random shit. Neither are current pvpers.
Yup lets ask the players who still participate in a dead game mode, why is it dead? No, you need to ask players who used to play and then quit. It'll help you understand why people no longer want to engage with WoW PVP. In the replies here i see a common theme "just make the Queue pop" LMAO. Why do you think it doesn't pop? Cause there ain't enough people. So you need to bring people in and queue will start popping. Why is the number of people who are interested in PVP is so low?
Theres several reasons new people arent joining. As someone who played a bit in DF season 1 then stopped and just came back part way through season 4 to mess around in pvp allow me to offer my thoughts. The entire concept of pvp gearing is fundamentally flawed. Unless you started at the beginning of a season and have only one char, or have ridiculous amounts of free time your willing to spend on grinding you must suffer through grinding bgs just to get honour gear first. Yes this is muuuuuch faster now than it has been in the past but still. And that's from the perspective of someone who is a returning player, not a new player. As a brand new player the complexity of the gearing system alone would be massively off-putting, enchants, gems, embellishes, crafted gear, (often very strong pve gear mixed in for top competitors). Then theres conquest gear which again furthers the gap. If your a good player or even just not new, you can grind conquest reasonably fast, but new players? You get no conquest for losing.. All this system does is make it so the good/experienced players gear up much much faster further widening the gap. The new player can ONLY match the same rate of gear acquisition (assuming theres a weekly cap) if they have plenty of time they are willing to spend on one char, losing 95% of the time gaining a few hundred conquest a day and can play every day. And thats IF you start at the beginning of a season.. join half way or toward the end and your up against everyone in full conquest with their crafted and pve stuff on top of the fact your new and dont know what your doing. FAR TOO MANY THINGS. Ability bloat is out of control. Multiple addons are a full on requirement. This is just laziness on blizzards part they should have officialised most of these addons, such as Gladius and omni etc years ago incorporating them into the base options menu with much more user friendliness in mind. Problem is the top pvp players dont want this to change. Because they are the ones in many cases having been playing more than a decade. They know all their abilities by heart, know their keybinds by heart, in many cases have played multiple classes/specs to high rating and know what everyone elses class/spec can do, (which is a huuuge part of pvp it is not enough to just know what your own character can do). Because of all these factors this creates a huge skill ceiling that allows them to really shine, winning 1v2s etc. Far too much micro CC, gap closers, mobility tools etc. Not enough distinction between classes roles, eg why rogues and mages have so much self healing/absorption ability I have no idea. When i first played I mained shaman cos i thought oh thats cool im a dps that can heal myself... Well no every other dps seems to not only be heal themselves but can do it more or less passively without sacrificing damage, while also having multiple defensives. Now what can be done to bring in new players? Obviously we cant just radically change wow pvp fundamentals or it wont be wow pvp anymore, but there are some things that I think would help new players out. Get rid of conquest gearing entirely or make it cosmetic stuff only. No pve gear in pvp. No enchants, gems, embellishments etc that shit is for pve. Keep the current system of having any gear scale to X amount in pvp, with honor gear very fast to obtain and being the highest lvl of pvp gear available. (or ideally just make honor gear fully free as well) after all I dont see why pvp even needs a gearing system like pve to begin with. Everyone on equal footing gear wise all the time for pvp. Some kind of solo queue mode vs bots. Something that allows new or returning players to play a few slower paced matches against bots to get comfortable and test their setup. (Not being able to test your addon setups etc properly without actually being in a live arena match is bad..) Maybe even have a pause feature so players can hover over abilities to see what they do during the match? I get that arena skirmish is kinda supposed to play this role but its still vs players who will crush a newbie without a second thought. Imagine if Blizz made some offer to new or returning players where they get a free max lvl char and get access to both a full set of the current pvp gear as well as a full set of "decent" pve gear, enough for Raid finder at least. An inbuilt addon I forget what its called where it shows them their priority system/rotation in real time that they can use to learn and then turn off if they want later. Remove the total dependency on 3rd party addons. I can only say that from my own experience who played a bit during original WotLK, cata, some MoP, mostly in WoD and then came back for S1 DF then left before S2, I watched soo many wow pvp videos, a lot of pika and xaryu and I constantly had the urge to go pvp again but that nostalgic urge was constantly stifled by the immediate realization that "Oh but id have to grind bgs at low gear for ages, dont know what most of the abilities to watch our for are anymore, will need to reset my UI and keybinds and setup addons again, is it part way through the season? Oh im gonna be in honor vs full conquest gear for ages. Can I find a team to play instead of queueing half an hour for shuffle? Oh no everyone and their dog is a multi R1 and only wants to play with other R1s and only with the classes that are the meta that season... I cant even imagine what it would be like for a brand new player interested in pvp. Its not just unwelcoming its outright hostile to anyone that hasnt been playing for years.
bellular used to make fun content, i watched him years ago(atleast i remember it that way) then he was making a quest voice-over addon for WoW and blizzard has blocked it due to some copyright issues, he has been on crusade about "wow is dead" ever since
Would be awesome to see some of the pros of PvP to do go through a basics guide to arena and go through everything that a new player needs to know. The think a huge barrier to entry is the sheer amount of information that the player has to take in order to be effective. For people who played the game for years it is just something we are use to, but for new players it can seem like information overload. A video from someone like Pika explaining how and why he sets up and uses his UI would be great for new players would be awesome, as well as showing us things that he is looking out for in a match would help newbies show what the need to pay attention to. It might seem basic, but I can imagine that hearing this with someone as much prestige as Pika would go a long way at attracting new players into the game and show them that it isn’t as complicated as it appears. I remember when I was getting into M+ I would watch hours of Growl videos showing how he sets up his UI, the basic game play of the class and how he approaches encounters. For a newbie this information was soooooo valuable and allowed me improve my gameplay 100 fold.
Now days that’s locked behind a sub, hidden weakauras, tricks aren’t passed down, a lot of arena knowledge is gate kept, most high elo wow players will laugh at you, require you to pay for coaching and preceded to call you boosted and tell you to just play. It comes down to dedication and luck when looking for serious dedicated teammates to grow with.
Cataclysm PvP was extremely popular. That's actually all me and my buddies did. Ran 5 Blood DKs into RBGs and one shot people with Death Strike. Fire mage was nutty with old combustion. Hansol has old vids of it. But yeah, all of my fondest memories of WoW PvP were from Panda and prior.
Pvp was actually the most popular aspect of the game in Classic. Most people were choosing PVP servers and the only reason most people started doing raids was because they wanted to get better gear to ultimately be stronger in PVP. But then we all got stuck in PVE and raids. We were not even playing the classes we chose the way we thought we would be playing them because they framed the classes one way when choosing them but then designed their roles differently in the actual game. Warriors were advertised as these colossal damage dealers, which was the reason everyone chose them to be damage dealers, they ended up being tanks instead. Shamans chose their class to be berserking damage dealers, they all ended up being healers in raids and so on. Everyone was raiding, getting a new weapon and then hurrying to use it in Alterac Valley.
Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning when it died had a new game come out that basically took the games battlegrounds and classes and condensed the classes to like 4-5 buttons and it was its own game basically a World of Warcraft Moba oh wait
Nobody besides the people who splooge to WoW hate watch him anymore, most of his subs were from when he still covered WoW news. He hasn't had a good take on anything for the past 3 years minimum.
3 nights this week I decided to grind honor before s4, all nights ending before any pvp because 40+ min bg and epic bg ques. Keep telling yourself the game isn't dead
what was on the fucking sandwich my guy? looked like three slices of bread with one slice of cheese and one slice of shaved meat. like... tf? where was the meat? and no drink with all that bread? was this sandwich a fucking dare?
i used to pvp back when classes werent so complicated, now for me to get into pvp i have to know which pvp talents to take, get the pvp gear, know every move of every class. its to much time for me to care and learn to play pvp. back then i jumped in with normal gear and would just go have fun. cant really do that now. youll never get a kill. classes are also so bloated with abilities now. no thanks im good.
i actually kinda disagree. Very true its so much to know and learn. But if ur smart, you see whats going on. Its very easy to learn your from your mistakes super fast just by using Details. I.E you died and the demon hunter turned pitch black. You go under buffs in details and hower over something called Metamorphisis and lo and behold it gives him a fuck ton of dmg. I guess next time i see a DH turn pitch black i should run or pop a defensive. Rinse repeat for everymistake and can super fast get to a decent skill level. or this is my method atleast and works for me everytime. i tend to take long breaks from WoW 3-5months at a time. and always get back into my former skill level superfast by just using details and checking deathlog. In the end you just have to play and learn from mistakes. Sure if u que up and die 1000 times to a DH going into meta and you never understand why. then your shit out of luck to ever improve
if this is top 5000 players you should be able to look at graph and be like okay a good % of players want to hit 2.2k and then stop playing that char etc or 2.3k but you get the point, which explains player drop off...
It’s quite saddening this is happening to another game I love. The same thing happened to the division 1 & 2. In Div 1 ALOT of players were in the dz. You can ask Div 2 players if they pvp or know anything about it and it’s the same situation with wow. “There is PVP?” And such.
Those two guys barely play wow and only play at an average level at best. They just pull out stats and talk nonsense based on what they think stats say, not what the experience is because they have no experience.
Anecdotal evidence isn't really good either. I do agree that these schmucks are trying to get views but queues are 40 minutes. Pvp isn't thriving by any means
@@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman I am a healer lol. My queues are fine in just saying In general. In fact, I started healing in vanilla because I was tired of waiting on tanks and healers all the timr
I'm sorry, but the The biggest problem with Retail PvP is not that you can't play. It's that it's extremely daunting to get into for new & returning players with the immense amount of ability, talent and addon bloat that exists in modern WoW. When you watch gameplay of other games, you can immediately tell if it looks fun to play or not, but if you look at gameplay for WoW arena you don't even understand what you're looking at, which is by far the biggest turn off. WoW desperately needs some sort of hard reset.
"if understood" is an insanely massive caveat though. lmaooo this game is not only overcomplicated by it's abilities and systems, it's also overcomplicated by addons. way too many barriers to entry for new players or existing players aspiring to get into pvp.
@@CraZeKllutchy Retail is Wotlk-Cata-Mop its not like that People dont know how good it was in those Expensions the Screen is empty you have Gladius and your Nameplates thats it now a Days when i watch a Stream once in Six Month and see the Screen i close it in 2 Min because its so Hektik and wierd to watch..
@@PoopSockJohnsonmortal online 2 might be able to tickle it be prepared to get seasoned like steak but once you finally get a grasp on it it gets unreal
No, the correct answer is: people play wow pvp because they're extremely below average and they don't wanna see that they're iron in Val, Silver in CS, Silver in Overwatch, or even contender in Fort arena. Wow has by far the least skilled people of any game and so it's much easier for a below average player to excel in this game for both pvp and pve.
I use to play a lot of wow pvp back in the WOTLK-MOP days and i left for other games because they had better pvp experiences. It is just not true that WoW PvP is better. It can never be better then a game that focuses all of its effort on nothing but pvp when blizzard barely puts any effort into pvp especially these days. Not saying i hate WoW just that wow will never be a better pvp game then the likes of LoL, Valorant, Apex, etc. These games are also significantly more approachable then WoW is which makes them easy to get into have a better stream of new players.
@@Boss-ot1iy bro you got no statistics on that. Im near divine in Dota 2 and was master guardian 1 in CS and i love playing wow pvp. Your claim is pure uneducated speculation. Most wow players play other games too hence the dropoffs upon big events or new releases
@tekamer6566 Master guardian is alright in cs lol. You're just above gold nova and I'm lem. I don't need statistics because it's logic. The best players will always go where the money is. If you're actually good at a game then you'll go where it matters. Most people cars too much about money but there are some that don't. The truth is that wow players are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of skill
if a person whos playing the game for a living every day of the year, several hours per day, is saying the barrier to entry is too hard, he even cant understand whats going on at all times, we maaaaybe have a problem yes. even these people have ui´s nobody whos watching can understand anything. My solution would be where they have it like warmane. everbody has more or less the same gear, nobody has to farm for it you can just buy it. you can skip waiting time in arena if all people press a button. you have consumes like healthstone in your bag as soon as you enter so you dont have to do it. you have designated areas where you can duel and your cd´s are reset after the duel. we maybe cut out a few abilities, or rather debuffs and buffs etc. then pvp maybe has a future where you can log on and play
As someone who's currently 2650 in SS & diamond in league, league is more unbalanced. I swear if they brought back arena tournament servers from different snippets of the game, Mop, Cata & ran them as seasons people would blast it.
Okay so based on these graphs, 130k is amount of ppl total in solo shuffle NA games per week and the 3v3 graph is matches played by the top 5000 ppl (2200 mmr and higher per week). So for fun if u take the most recent number on the 3v3 graph 16,403 and consider that accounts for 5000 ppl when there are 109k ppl on the NA ladder total. If you say the rest of the people playing would play the same amount of games per 5000 you would get 357,597 3v3 games per week. Obviously the amount of games played per week by the rest of the ladder isnt going to match the top 4.5% of players (I would wager 1200-1800 mmr play a lot more per week, and some people on the ladder dont play at all on any given week) but its still good ballpark math. Based off of said ballpark math there's 2,275,582 ppl NA playing 3v3 and solo per week versus 5 mil NA per week in m+. Almost half the amount (without 2v2 or RBG). However theres also 10s of thousands of ppl that play like 10 games per season lol. If I had to guess id say theres probably somewhere around 500k to 1 mil ppl playing pvp across all modes at least once per week NA. What do u guys think?
I agree with Pika... The reason most people don't PvP is because there is a social element to it that they don't like... Hence the reason SS is so popular... and also the same reason M+ players complain about never getting accepted into a key instead of just starting their own group.
Also another big point in watching wow PvP isn't even just the addons and UI, there's not really any clear feedback for most abilities. Say you kidney someone, a new player has 0 clue what button you just pressed or even what it does. Some stuff like rootbeam do it pretty well, its clearly a bad thing to stand in but most of it I probably couldn't tell you what happened It takes so much game knowledge to see when someone did something really skillful that it's just not interesting to watch
WoW PVP is dead, just get over it and find a new game already. WoW PvP will never get new blood in the game, so yeah its dying. I stopped PVP 2 weeks after Shadowlands release and I been playing WoW since TBC 2007, I even stop playing retail after 2 weeks of Shadowlands. There are SO many other better games out there for PvP, but I guess all the "Elites" are so proud of their game and never find anything other then WoW being good, sad lifes. But hey, its not to late to try other games.
Bellular has always been very unprofessional whilst pretending to be very professional and that's what makes him so cringe. He has these professional presentations of emotional rants and that's why I stopped watching years ago. Don't let the glasses fool you. He's not a logical person.
Plunderstorm is "dead" because it is on an archaic subscription model. Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot if they don't learn the basics of modern gaming economics: make Plunderstorm FTP (Free-to-play), stand alone, and make those who still have a WoW subscription gain transmogs as additional incentives, otherwise new players can play for skins. Fortnite meets WoW is a potential success if it was ACCESSIBLE in the modern game-o-sphere!
because that's not their plan, they made this for wow players - basically a lot of games do this now and blizzard is catching on it, where you have these limited time events that come and go during lull, not sure if you play league but riot does this with URF, arena, nexus blitz, one for all etc., it's a really good system imo
Lmao fkn relax its a limited time event and its obviously in a test phase. Its not supposed to last atm. Talking about how a limited time event is "dead" when it was designed that was is tarded.
Dude, if Solo Shuffle queues were instant, or two minutes, or wtf ever, just short, the number of games would skyrocket. Myself and other people I know would rather play SS for four hours than raid or m+, but most not if most of that time is spent waiting. PIka nailed it.
I think people need to remember that a huge part of the PvP community are people who do unrated modes. Random BG ques and epic BG ques are extremely fast and there is a lot of world PvP. BG blitz also has relatively fast ques.
The problem most games suffer from is not their complexity, it's the pacing of delivering information to the player and pacing a new players experience in order to 1. Not bore them so they keep playing and 2. Not to overwhelm them with an overload of information so they quit. It is a 2 pronged problem that is completely unsolvable.
He's right I've played since vanilla and always loved arena. It was 50% of the game in the sense that it was really the only thing you could do after raid night but that didn't mean people would do it. It was never that popular I would have to beg people after raids were over to log in and do arena during the week just to be able to play the game between raids. People would just want to raid log and come back next week.A lot of these players would also moan and not show up for raids on hard mode progression bosses as well to be fair. The only time you'd see pve players doing pvp between raids was if there was a bis piece that was pvp only for that tier and blizz put a stop to that by making pvp gear only good for pvp. I had friends that had played since vanilla quit at the end of mop and never come back because there was "nothing to do between raids" and they would refuse to do arena.
I think the problem that bliz got with the leaver is that they can't figure out how to seperate leaver ( on purpose) and dc's ! If they can/ could simple set the ratin to 0 instant when its on.purpose!
the biggest issue for wow pvp will always be barrier to entry...not difficulty...difficult in pvp will always scale....a lobby full of actual 1400 players will same difficulty for them....gearing is the biggest issue...should not be a thing in a pvp game. 2nd biggest issue is addons. Get rid of addons...get rid of gearing.....soloque will pop off.
Asman doesnt play wow and bellular doesnt pvp. Im having a blast in pvp. Every game is hard to get into. Have you ever played LoL of Dota 2 with no prior MoBA experience? Play CS2 with no fps experience or map/gun experience and ur fucked. Ppl act like wow is impossible to learn ive gotten to 2k which isnt high in several season with like 3 addons no WA's as a 30 year old gamer.
im a pve player, 12 years in, i think wow pvp i was the most important aspect of vanilla, because players got gear to pvp back in the mmo old days, but yes after that pvp were losing space to pve because its easier to interact with people, more laidback, mechanics, fun... also mmos are losing space in general
11:55 not true in the slightest. season 1 of shadowlands was the largest population season of pvp the game has EVER seen... regardless if you blame the fact pve'rs had to pvp for ilvl it was POPPIN!!! to add, mop it 100% felt like half if not MORE than half, but that because when you think about it wtf did pve players even have to do all week?? m+ wasnt out yet so they just sat there...
For me personally I felt there was no overlap between wow and plunderstorm, but you've made plunderstorm with that wow engine or whatever and it feels dated - nobody is going to be interested in this except wow players already - and then I tried about 5 games and hated it, there was absolutely no fun and the same problems with damage numbers, ui, clunky added buttons etc. from wow carried over
In vanilla, pvp definitely felt more popular. Lots of people that raided would take their raid gear into bg's to have fun with it, seemed like that's how the game was played... no one cared about speed running crap or this parsing nonsense... It was chill with your friends in a raid group, then form a smaller group to go into bg's to test out the new gear you all got.
In TBC ppl still did world pvp did bgs in raid gear. There were more ppl interested in pvp and less options for pvp. Wow was the PC game to play until cata and slowly died off in wod.
Pvp was way more popular until around cata or mop. The mlg arena games in tbc and wotlk were getting hundreds of thousands of concurrent viewers. Wow has never achieved anything like that since. Raiding has always been a very niche part of the game.
I wish they had a chart for arena games played per month over the past decade. I suspect played games declined after the 9 week mark as everyone had beaten the game. They were starting to become fully geared, and started to lose incentive to play. As much as people disliked PvP progression (item upgrades) it incentivized players to participate in different PvP modes as well as battlegrounds. Catering to players with multiple alts, and players that only play 4 hours a week was a huge mistake imo.
okay..i was so confused but one fact i squeaked from this it is hard to find stable partners on that i can nod..and personally my partner he was so scared on start he said to me i am not good so dont crush me and i type to him chillax it is just a game for me after that he was like freaking relieved from curse or something...i mean with that toxic players can really damage people and they never will be play again...so maybe 1.long ques 2.human factor
weird to me, that they didn't know wtf is going on in arena... I didn't play retail for years and even I knew that there are 6 people in solo shuffle (aka 3vs3) ...
Having pika come behind these dudes that were recorded at one point in time. Being reacted to by asmon at another point in time. Pika is definitely living on the best timeline hahah
Ive been doing pretty much nothing but arena since mop. highest i ever got was 2200 and the problem i have with wow arena is that unless you are able to play all day and are a god... or you have a consistent team that you play with and you don't have a real life.... you just aren't getting gladiator. Its frustrating that the mounts are locked behind what seems like such a massive wall. Like yes I have improved over the years but I cant compete with kids that can play all day.
It definitely depended your server, but PvP felt much more present the first few expansions. My dad was always in TM/SS wars, multi day AVs, city raids, etc - and even when I joined late BC and played most between then and like S2 Legion, I recall the largest presence and most active friend group for me of similar minded individuals LK thru MOP and a bit of a resurge in Legion and then it fell off by multiplicative chunks with the xpacs that followed. And with Classic release; I had a similar experience with Grobb & also on a LK private server prior to Classic.
Yeah this is the hardest game I've ever played. I cant think of what game is more complicated than wow pvp and how often it changes and all the addon work you gotta do
32:30 hard copium - just because people 'can't play it' doesn't mean it's good. If loads of people 'can't play it' and therefore aren't playing it, then... is it good? Nope.
If they just made a no healer solo shuffle option ques would pop all the time. It could 2v2 or 3v3 or whatever as long as it was ranked and gave conquest ppl would gravitate to it.
Friend issue is why I never pvped until solo shuffle came out all of my friends I play with are strictly pve and trying to get them to even attempt or try pvp is like taking their first born child
All they gotta do is make a really dumb but basic AI not (similar to what they have in comp stomp AB). When someone abandons the match, their player is taken over by the bot, and a big unique BOT nameplate replaces their own, and it remains the duration of whatever game mode. The bot will inevitably underperform, and the rating it earns, will be transferred to the abandoning player’s rating, followed by a 1 -> 6 -> 12 hour Queue penalty
I would be down for this in solo shuffle it sucks when you have someone afk on your team 3 rounds as a healer then as soon as they go to other healer they leave and you lose rating. This happens ALOT. Or other healer leaves after losing 3 rounds.
I'd say instead of whatever rating they get, just subtract a baseline large amount. Like 150 mmr to make it really not likely someone leaves. But I'd also have like warnings too. Like sometimes life gets in the way, sometimes you just super tilted and need to calm down and leave out of frustration even though for that specific player leaving isn't really common.
I was really hoping that Xaryu would do a reaction video, to your reaction video, to Asmon's reaction video, to the reaction to modern PvP in WoW. 4 corner cam could have been the new meta.
I think it's pretty accepted at this point that pvp is a much smaller proportion of the player base than the raiders/dungeon players. The numbers they are looking at however aren't a great comparison to show that gap.
Making the game so every class doesn’t have 4 different interrupts is a good start to fixing it. Nothing more frustrating as a healer than walking into an arena and getting chain cc’d for 10 seconds while your teammate dies. I’ve been playing the game since 2006. I can only imagine how somebody that’s new to the game would feel.
Toxic games are an escape from boring rule driven reality. Removing the ability to be toxic is ruining my ability to emerge myself with the thoughts that make me let loose from the rules.
I think it all just boils down to: no one is actually enjoying the gameplay anymore and queues don't pop. People are constantly watching R1s and top parsers and thinking their experience will be close to that lol. Just enjoy the game at ur own level/pace. MoP, imo, was the best/active pvp expansion next to legion. Wpvp was alive, world events were relative, arenas were active, being social was a thing still lmao, class was balanced in the sense that everyone basically nuked each other with basically no GCD back then, and there were challenge mode/MT/heroic/mythic raid introduction. And yeah those guys are basically info YT content creators lol. I wouldn't trust their opinion on PVE or PVP. It's like Apex Legends, there are cheaters on it and sometimes queues are long when u get into the higher ranks. But it's still active because people enjoy the game and don't care TOO much about winning or losing. And there lies another problem within WoW: everyone cares WAY too much about winning/losing that it makes for a shitty environment to play lol. I don't find it surprising that healers stop queuing when team mates are constantly flaming them every single queue
In the great before times I did pve so I could pvp. In LK you wanted some leather pieces from ICC for Ret Pally pvp gear. I did world pvp stuff, the wintergrasp, that town in Nagrand, the flags in Hellfire. I stopped playing early Cata and only came back right before SL. The game was definitely 50% pvp for me, and the 50% pve was just so I could more easily get into pvp. Edit: Queuing for a single 2v2 or 3v3 match feels bad, especially if you are bad. You get banged out in the opener and then you're going back through a loading screen to ready up for your next queue, for the next minute wait, for the next loading screen, for the gates to open, to play again.
Been playing since launch I do all content in the game pvp being my favorite I’m currently 1800 in 3s 2s and rbgs I don’t do solo shuffle had a bad experience and decided to stay away but honestly I think any game where the pvp is basically the same maybe more or less ability’s added in at different times over a 20 year period it’s not gonna feel fresh and the game is way to complicated for new players tried to get my brother to play but having 20 keybinds to learn when your coming from a console set up can be demoralizing
Dude they just wanted to show a graph pointing down. That's it. It could have been a graph about how much rain we got in the last month for they all know lol I'm glad you were trying to break down that graph and try to make it make sense. They were comparing apples to oranges with pvp and mythic keys
PvP did feel like half the game a long time ago. When my friends and I would make new characters in BC/wrath we would ask, are we going PvP or PvE characters? Nowadays that is completely gone
simple pvp should be a seperate client like plunderstorm, you pick your class and q and the classes are condensed version of the class with like 10 buttons, no talents and maybe just pvp talent options
didn't expect people to be so against players that quit and their takes on why they quit. it's just people saying they don't play so their opinion doesn't matter when those are the opinions you should be looking at.
the average player is not sniffing 2200 in arena. I usually hit around 2200 and my friends are usually 1800 -2k at best and play all the time. Chart makes no sense
pvp was like 70% of the game in vanilla and every exp it went down atleast 10%, as someone who has played it from vanilla til legion without break doing both pvp and pve on a high lvl i'm quite sure of that Edit: its so true how its all just about being able to just QUE, had 5 chars fully pvp/pve eqt in classic tbc and i just wanted to QUE arena raids w/e but its so dam impossible, finding arena mates in this toxic community despite having multi glad exp and being on r1 range AT THE MOMENT on main was dam impossible, same happend in wotlk... not even talking about retail anymore where there are so many more things that prevent you from playing
PvP needs 3 very simple fixes to make people stop quitting 1 week into the season. 1. Always have MMR Inflation on. Deflating the season, most seasons, down to below 2400 immediately signals to people that you should log off and come back in 3-4 months. This is a trained behaviour. Most people know this to be the case right now. Look up threads of people struggling to push rating at the start of seasons and what are the responses "wait a few months." Sorry - I want to play and earn my rewards *now.* Turn on the MMR inflation and keep it on forever. Who gives a crap if people are 4k rating at the end of the season? 2. Hire a single guy, just one, who keeps an eye on balance in PvP. There is absolutely zero reason Demon Hunters should have been allowed to do 50-100% more damage than every other spec in the game while being unkillable for the first 3 months of the season. Zero. None. This should've been a 1 week thing, max. You don't need to get balancing perfect, but no spec should ever be 10% better than average. At the start of S3, something like 85 of the top 100 characters were Demon Hunters. Unacceptable. Pull a guy off the street and have him work on it. Weekly balance changes for the first month, bi-weekly after that until the end of the season. Absolutely zero excuse this isn't happening already. 3. Make healer MMR better in shuffle. You should never be able to go 5 or 6-0 and gain zero rating as a healer. It shouldn't be possible. 6-0 should be at bare minimum a guaranteed 25 rating. Throw MMR and rating at these guys. I don't care. I want to play the game and these guys gatekeep my queues. Convince them to queue by making healer the FOTM role for once instead of DH/DK/Warlock. Implement these 3 changes and people will stick around after week 1 and will do the thing that always happens when the content is fair and rewarding - make tons of alts. Just like you did in 5.4 or 6.2 or 9.1 or 10.0. People love playing when they can earn things and it feels fair. If you can't earn things, people won't play, and if it doesn't feel fair but you can earn things, then they'll only do it once to 'get it over with.'
They coul sort your spells by defensives, offensive and cc in your spell book. The could tag your talents in the same way. So people would understand faster what every ability is. 🤓
the amount of copium in the comments and honestly from the pvp community. arena is dying... it had a good run, not many game modes and games last 15+ years but be happy it happened. Ion already confirmed on war within alpha interview that rated solo rbgs (blitz) is now their main focus for pvp, and i love that approach. bgs are way more fun and blitz was enjoyable
super good point about fixing leavers, then NEED to fucking punish you if u leave, if you do that shit enough on league you get banned. At least ppl keep playing even if they give up 10 mins in and soft int
Agree that while balance helps, just not being able to play and leavers is just the worst aspect of it by far. Its also daunting for people to engage in a mode using 40 keybinds plus and focus macro etc. btw bellular and asmond are super casual. I used to play PVP more but mythic plus my friends are into more so I do that. We used to LOVE doing battlegrounds etc but arena never been a big thing for us. Agree on the addons too in pvp.
Hot take unbalanced games are fun and the reason league has success is they are constantly adjusting and making changes so different characters are strong all the time, itd be cool if wow had more pvp balance patches not to make the game more balanced but to rotate more classes into top tiers and low tiers to make it more fresh vs rogue mage dominance for 20 years straight
As someone who has played comp games all my life,CSGO, Fortnite, League of Legends, Overwatch and semi pro Valorant. I really dont get why ppl hate WoW, i dabbled in and out of WoW since Legion and been playing activly end of SL and i love the game, its all i play nowadays. The only thing id say i dont like abt the game is the Elitetism, other then that is probably the most fun i have had in gaming in a long time. And about the Skill factory in WoW, for me its way easier to be "good" at wow then to be "good" at Valorant" Playing Valorant at a high Level was probably the most toxic environment i was in, You wake up you scrim for hours against teams, you aimtrain, warmup, need to find a good mouse/keyboard that works for you, find a Sense and all of other factors. In WoW it feels way easier, ye maybe at times there is a lot going on, and you may need some addon for some mechanics. But id rather do that then what i had to do to stay "good" at Valorant. And from a Casual perspection, if you dont want to be a high level player in WoW, i dont see why it would be hard to have fun as a casual. I Feel like most players who say that WoW might be to hard, or is not Casual friendly, are people who just want to be the best at something but are to lazy to put in time, so they complay. And all of that im saying from someone who is working a full time job, so its not like i can play these games 24/7
Pika is out here having fun with the game while everyone else is insufferable.
100% agree
The insufferable ones always look fat depressed lonely losers that based their whole personality on a dead game and come out with zero life skills except for complain record post. 💯
Pika agreed that pvp is near impossible to get into for new players
Facts lol
extreme blizzard glazer cope
Pika is the only one who can watch a video for twenty minutes, eating a sandwich, completely confused the whole time, then come out with a conclusion that is much more insightful than either two people commenting on the subject before him
Yeah cuz he actually plays the game they are commenting on (being wow pvp)
This is why i love pika. Always optimistic against people who are talking out of their ass 70% of the time.
They were not talking out of their ass. While they have no clue about PVP they can look at those numbers and easily say, yup, the pvp participation is it's lowest and it's going down. You dont even need to compare to M+, just look at the data trend lines.
@@evg3nius But those numbers and graphs were crazy screwed. 24 thousand of games per week for the top 5% of pvp'ers? Call me crazy but that ain't all that bad. It's not as big as m+, clearly, but still doing alright.
Of course he is optimistic this is his job 😂😂 and it's not like he can do anything else. Bellular is annoying af but it's hardly controversial to point out that no one is playing retail. I think blizzard are in trouble when they move to classic cata and war within.
@@evg3nius They are absolutely talking out of their ass.
@kluasvt828 they didn't technically say it was bad, in fact they said it's okay. Just in comparison with the previous season its not holding as many players which is why in comparison its "dying"
Kinda jealous of Pika for not knowing who Bellular is.
trueeee
Who
Bellular talks about so much random stuff in his vids, that i fall asleep
This is kinda crazy, but I love bellular
Haha that’s so funny
"shuffle is 2v2's" 💀
This video is hilarious. Pika is so god damn funny
Yea 🤣 he seems lost sometimes
me reacting to a dude reacting to a dude reacting to a dude reacting to news
"news"
@@oSawmurai "wow news"
me reacting to your comment
Reacting to propaganda *
@@VIP-Exciusive lmao
Bro back in mop I was on the wow arena forums and arena junkies all thr time. I had arena forums up on the school laptop in class in 9th grade. I remember seeing a stat that in s14 or s15 the total number of characters that had played a game of arena was 250k - 300k. That's individual characters, not accounts. Pvp has never been popular in this game. However, it felt like it was back then. Pvp vendors in contested pvp zone, heaps of people used to sirlt in Elwynn and Durotar spam duelling all day. The entirety of mop I never even did SoO a single time, I was literally in Elwynn dueling all day and qing 2s. 100% agree that wow arena is just physically impossible to get into. I've played wow since fucking 2012 and got 2200 in s15 but can't queue arena for the life of me because the diehard 3s players I used to queue with dont play anymore and LFG is a joke. I actually met up with someone in real life that I met on wow. He ended up getting Gladiator eventually. That's the kind of person you need to know if you want to play 3s in this game.
you know what, that shit never stopped. we still here in Gs qin 2s and bgs shits fun man
im so glad pika exposed bellular ,its embarrassing how long bell has gotten away with it
Got away with what exactly? Both asmon and bellular haven't pvped in the last 2+ expansions.
Bellular is a lore RUclipsr talking about random shit. Asmon is a variety streamer talking about random shit. Neither are current pvpers.
@@vanyel_etc8695 saying asmon hasnt pvped in 2 xpacs is hillarious when he has glad titles
@@Da5kone001who boosted him?
@@Da5kone001 he literally doesn't have glad titles from the last 2 expacs lol
Yup lets ask the players who still participate in a dead game mode, why is it dead? No, you need to ask players who used to play and then quit. It'll help you understand why people no longer want to engage with WoW PVP. In the replies here i see a common theme "just make the Queue pop" LMAO. Why do you think it doesn't pop? Cause there ain't enough people. So you need to bring people in and queue will start popping. Why is the number of people who are interested in PVP is so low?
Theres several reasons new people arent joining. As someone who played a bit in DF season 1 then stopped and just came back part way through season 4 to mess around in pvp allow me to offer my thoughts.
The entire concept of pvp gearing is fundamentally flawed. Unless you started at the beginning of a season and have only one char, or have ridiculous amounts of free time your willing to spend on grinding you must suffer through grinding bgs just to get honour gear first. Yes this is muuuuuch faster now than it has been in the past but still. And that's from the perspective of someone who is a returning player, not a new player. As a brand new player the complexity of the gearing system alone would be massively off-putting, enchants, gems, embellishes, crafted gear, (often very strong pve gear mixed in for top competitors).
Then theres conquest gear which again furthers the gap. If your a good player or even just not new, you can grind conquest reasonably fast, but new players? You get no conquest for losing.. All this system does is make it so the good/experienced players gear up much much faster further widening the gap. The new player can ONLY match the same rate of gear acquisition (assuming theres a weekly cap) if they have plenty of time they are willing to spend on one char, losing 95% of the time gaining a few hundred conquest a day and can play every day. And thats IF you start at the beginning of a season.. join half way or toward the end and your up against everyone in full conquest with their crafted and pve stuff on top of the fact your new and dont know what your doing.
FAR TOO MANY THINGS. Ability bloat is out of control. Multiple addons are a full on requirement. This is just laziness on blizzards part they should have officialised most of these addons, such as Gladius and omni etc years ago incorporating them into the base options menu with much more user friendliness in mind.
Problem is the top pvp players dont want this to change. Because they are the ones in many cases having been playing more than a decade. They know all their abilities by heart, know their keybinds by heart, in many cases have played multiple classes/specs to high rating and know what everyone elses class/spec can do, (which is a huuuge part of pvp it is not enough to just know what your own character can do). Because of all these factors this creates a huge skill ceiling that allows them to really shine, winning 1v2s etc.
Far too much micro CC, gap closers, mobility tools etc. Not enough distinction between classes roles, eg why rogues and mages have so much self healing/absorption ability I have no idea. When i first played I mained shaman cos i thought oh thats cool im a dps that can heal myself... Well no every other dps seems to not only be heal themselves but can do it more or less passively without sacrificing damage, while also having multiple defensives.
Now what can be done to bring in new players? Obviously we cant just radically change wow pvp fundamentals or it wont be wow pvp anymore, but there are some things that I think would help new players out.
Get rid of conquest gearing entirely or make it cosmetic stuff only.
No pve gear in pvp.
No enchants, gems, embellishments etc that shit is for pve.
Keep the current system of having any gear scale to X amount in pvp, with honor gear very fast to obtain and being the highest lvl of pvp gear available. (or ideally just make honor gear fully free as well) after all I dont see why pvp even needs a gearing system like pve to begin with. Everyone on equal footing gear wise all the time for pvp.
Some kind of solo queue mode vs bots. Something that allows new or returning players to play a few slower paced matches against bots to get comfortable and test their setup. (Not being able to test your addon setups etc properly without actually being in a live arena match is bad..) Maybe even have a pause feature so players can hover over abilities to see what they do during the match? I get that arena skirmish is kinda supposed to play this role but its still vs players who will crush a newbie without a second thought.
Imagine if Blizz made some offer to new or returning players where they get a free max lvl char and get access to both a full set of the current pvp gear as well as a full set of "decent" pve gear, enough for Raid finder at least. An inbuilt addon I forget what its called where it shows them their priority system/rotation in real time that they can use to learn and then turn off if they want later. Remove the total dependency on 3rd party addons.
I can only say that from my own experience who played a bit during original WotLK, cata, some MoP, mostly in WoD and then came back for S1 DF then left before S2, I watched soo many wow pvp videos, a lot of pika and xaryu and I constantly had the urge to go pvp again but that nostalgic urge was constantly stifled by the immediate realization that "Oh but id have to grind bgs at low gear for ages, dont know what most of the abilities to watch our for are anymore, will need to reset my UI and keybinds and setup addons again, is it part way through the season? Oh im gonna be in honor vs full conquest gear for ages. Can I find a team to play instead of queueing half an hour for shuffle? Oh no everyone and their dog is a multi R1 and only wants to play with other R1s and only with the classes that are the meta that season... I cant even imagine what it would be like for a brand new player interested in pvp. Its not just unwelcoming its outright hostile to anyone that hasnt been playing for years.
BREAKING NEWS: Unwashed outrage manufacturer manufactures outrage. More at 11.
14:00 it’s not toxic. Toxicity is NOT AN ARGUAMENT FOR ANYTHING. GTA is the most toxic lobbies and it’s very popular. Learn how to think
bellular used to make fun content, i watched him years ago(atleast i remember it that way) then he was making a quest voice-over addon for WoW and blizzard has blocked it due to some copyright issues, he has been on crusade about "wow is dead" ever since
Would be awesome to see some of the pros of PvP to do go through a basics guide to arena and go through everything that a new player needs to know. The think a huge barrier to entry is the sheer amount of information that the player has to take in order to be effective. For people who played the game for years it is just something we are use to, but for new players it can seem like information overload. A video from someone like Pika explaining how and why he sets up and uses his UI would be great for new players would be awesome, as well as showing us things that he is looking out for in a match would help newbies show what the need to pay attention to. It might seem basic, but I can imagine that hearing this with someone as much prestige as Pika would go a long way at attracting new players into the game and show them that it isn’t as complicated as it appears. I remember when I was getting into M+ I would watch hours of Growl videos showing how he sets up his UI, the basic game play of the class and how he approaches encounters. For a newbie this information was soooooo valuable and allowed me improve my gameplay 100 fold.
Now days that’s locked behind a sub, hidden weakauras, tricks aren’t passed down, a lot of arena knowledge is gate kept, most high elo wow players will laugh at you, require you to pay for coaching and preceded to call you boosted and tell you to just play. It comes down to dedication and luck when looking for serious dedicated teammates to grow with.
Cataclysm PvP was extremely popular. That's actually all me and my buddies did. Ran 5 Blood DKs into RBGs and one shot people with Death Strike. Fire mage was nutty with old combustion. Hansol has old vids of it.
But yeah, all of my fondest memories of WoW PvP were from Panda and prior.
I'll never forget arcane mage from cata.
Pvp was actually the most popular aspect of the game in Classic. Most people were choosing PVP servers and the only reason most people started doing raids was because they wanted to get better gear to ultimately be stronger in PVP. But then we all got stuck in PVE and raids.
We were not even playing the classes we chose the way we thought we would be playing them because they framed the classes one way when choosing them but then designed their roles differently in the actual game. Warriors were advertised as these colossal damage dealers, which was the reason everyone chose them to be damage dealers, they ended up being tanks instead. Shamans chose their class to be berserking damage dealers, they all ended up being healers in raids and so on.
Everyone was raiding, getting a new weapon and then hurrying to use it in Alterac Valley.
Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning when it died had a new game come out that basically took the games battlegrounds and classes and condensed the classes to like 4-5 buttons and it was its own game basically a World of Warcraft Moba oh wait
bad pvpers complain about a game mode they don't play. bellular's content so toxic, insane he has that many subs..
I used to really enjoy his content but now he just drama farms
Nobody besides the people who splooge to WoW hate watch him anymore, most of his subs were from when he still covered WoW news. He hasn't had a good take on anything for the past 3 years minimum.
Go Browns
3 nights this week I decided to grind honor before s4, all nights ending before any pvp because 40+ min bg and epic bg ques. Keep telling yourself the game isn't dead
@@gregjross852 he had too so asmon will react to him and he stay relevant, asmon isnt reacting about anything goof for wow witch make you think
what was on the fucking sandwich my guy?
looked like three slices of bread with one slice of cheese and one slice of shaved meat. like... tf?
where was the meat?
and no drink with all that bread?
was this sandwich a fucking dare?
U r blind man xd look closer, most of it is meat
seeing this comment in a sea of people talking about wow pvp just killed me lmfao
i used to pvp back when classes werent so complicated, now for me to get into pvp i have to know which pvp talents to take, get the pvp gear, know every move of every class. its to much time for me to care and learn to play pvp. back then i jumped in with normal gear and would just go have fun. cant really do that now. youll never get a kill. classes are also so bloated with abilities now. no thanks im good.
i actually kinda disagree. Very true its so much to know and learn.
But if ur smart, you see whats going on. Its very easy to learn your from your mistakes super fast just by using Details.
I.E you died and the demon hunter turned pitch black. You go under buffs in details and hower over something called Metamorphisis and lo and behold it gives him a fuck ton of dmg.
I guess next time i see a DH turn pitch black i should run or pop a defensive. Rinse repeat for everymistake and can super fast get to a decent skill level.
or this is my method atleast and works for me everytime. i tend to take long breaks from WoW 3-5months at a time. and always get back into my former skill level superfast by just using details and checking deathlog. In the end you just have to play and learn from mistakes. Sure if u que up and die 1000 times to a DH going into meta and you never understand why. then your shit out of luck to ever improve
The way not only bellular, but then asmon's comments make Pika lose his sanity throughout the video is phenomenal
if this is top 5000 players you should be able to look at graph and be like okay a good % of players want to hit 2.2k and then stop playing that char etc or 2.3k but you get the point, which explains player drop off...
I can't wait for his video on what to expect in the second trimester of pregnancy
It’s quite saddening this is happening to another game I love. The same thing happened to the division 1 & 2. In Div 1 ALOT of players were in the dz. You can ask Div 2 players if they pvp or know anything about it and it’s the same situation with wow. “There is PVP?” And such.
hilarious to watch Pika being flabbergasted by the non existent knowledge they have :D
Those two guys barely play wow and only play at an average level at best. They just pull out stats and talk nonsense based on what they think stats say, not what the experience is because they have no experience.
Anecdotal evidence isn't really good either. I do agree that these schmucks are trying to get views but queues are 40 minutes. Pvp isn't thriving by any means
@@Dinkslayer681 healer in pvp aren't thriving, it's a pain in the ass to heal
you can lack experience, and still take an objective look at how pvp is lacking in too many areas.
You have no idea what you're talking about and it shows lmao.
@@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman I am a healer lol. My queues are fine in just saying In general. In fact, I started healing in vanilla because I was tired of waiting on tanks and healers all the timr
I'm sorry, but the The biggest problem with Retail PvP is not that you can't play. It's that it's extremely daunting to get into for new & returning players with the immense amount of ability, talent and addon bloat that exists in modern WoW. When you watch gameplay of other games, you can immediately tell if it looks fun to play or not, but if you look at gameplay for WoW arena you don't even understand what you're looking at, which is by far the biggest turn off. WoW desperately needs some sort of hard reset.
World of Warcraft PvP if understood is the most addicting challenging and replayable thing I’ve ever played
"if understood" is an insanely massive caveat though. lmaooo
this game is not only overcomplicated by it's abilities and systems, it's also overcomplicated by addons. way too many barriers to entry for new players or existing players aspiring to get into pvp.
True there is no other game that can scratch the same itch as WoW pvp.
@@CraZeKllutchy Retail is Wotlk-Cata-Mop its not like that People dont know how good it was in those Expensions the Screen is empty you have Gladius and your Nameplates thats it now a Days when i watch a Stream once in Six Month and see the Screen i close it in 2 Min because its so Hektik and wierd to watch..
@@PoopSockJohnsonmortal online 2 might be able to tickle it be prepared to get seasoned like steak but once you finally get a grasp on it it gets unreal
"How long are solo shuffles"
Guy who thought shuffle had 12 people staring cross-eyed into the camera "uhhhhhh"
I think for learning PvP Blizzard could make a thing like scenarios back in MoP where they could teach new players how their class works in PvP
This is so funny really goes to show how cooked some of their takes are
pika's mom scurrying in and then back out so cute LMAO
Yea those 3 don't know what they're talking about. People play WoW PvP bc it is better than other games.
No, the correct answer is: people play wow pvp because they're extremely below average and they don't wanna see that they're iron in Val, Silver in CS, Silver in Overwatch, or even contender in Fort arena. Wow has by far the least skilled people of any game and so it's much easier for a below average player to excel in this game for both pvp and pve.
Those 2 guys dont....but people play wow pvp because they like it. Objectively wow pvp is dogshit
I use to play a lot of wow pvp back in the WOTLK-MOP days and i left for other games because they had better pvp experiences. It is just not true that WoW PvP is better. It can never be better then a game that focuses all of its effort on nothing but pvp when blizzard barely puts any effort into pvp especially these days.
Not saying i hate WoW just that wow will never be a better pvp game then the likes of LoL, Valorant, Apex, etc. These games are also significantly more approachable then WoW is which makes them easy to get into have a better stream of new players.
@@Boss-ot1iy bro you got no statistics on that. Im near divine in Dota 2 and was master guardian 1 in CS
and i love playing wow pvp.
Your claim is pure uneducated speculation. Most wow players play other games too hence the dropoffs upon big events or new releases
@tekamer6566 Master guardian is alright in cs lol. You're just above gold nova and I'm lem. I don't need statistics because it's logic. The best players will always go where the money is. If you're actually good at a game then you'll go where it matters. Most people cars too much about money but there are some that don't. The truth is that wow players are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of skill
if a person whos playing the game for a living every day of the year, several hours per day, is saying the barrier to entry is too hard, he even cant understand whats going on at all times, we maaaaybe have a problem yes. even these people have ui´s nobody whos watching can understand anything. My solution would be where they have it like warmane. everbody has more or less the same gear, nobody has to farm for it you can just buy it. you can skip waiting time in arena if all people press a button. you have consumes like healthstone in your bag as soon as you enter so you dont have to do it. you have designated areas where you can duel and your cd´s are reset after the duel. we maybe cut out a few abilities, or rather debuffs and buffs etc. then pvp maybe has a future where you can log on and play
As someone who's currently 2650 in SS & diamond in league, league is more unbalanced. I swear if they brought back arena tournament servers from different snippets of the game, Mop, Cata & ran them as seasons people would blast it.
Okay so based on these graphs, 130k is amount of ppl total in solo shuffle NA games per week and the 3v3 graph is matches played by the top 5000 ppl (2200 mmr and higher per week).
So for fun if u take the most recent number on the 3v3 graph 16,403 and consider that accounts for 5000 ppl when there are 109k ppl on the NA ladder total. If you say the rest of the people playing would play the same amount of games per 5000 you would get 357,597 3v3 games per week. Obviously the amount of games played per week by the rest of the ladder isnt going to match the top 4.5% of players (I would wager 1200-1800 mmr play a lot more per week, and some people on the ladder dont play at all on any given week) but its still good ballpark math.
Based off of said ballpark math there's 2,275,582 ppl NA playing 3v3 and solo per week versus 5 mil NA per week in m+. Almost half the amount (without 2v2 or RBG). However theres also 10s of thousands of ppl that play like 10 games per season lol.
If I had to guess id say theres probably somewhere around 500k to 1 mil ppl playing pvp across all modes at least once per week NA. What do u guys think?
i can't stop commenting pika is so on point about self hate, they don't allow themselvs to be happy so they complain about anything,
I agree with Pika... The reason most people don't PvP is because there is a social element to it that they don't like... Hence the reason SS is so popular... and also the same reason M+ players complain about never getting accepted into a key instead of just starting their own group.
42:18 imagine a new player trying to learn the game from watching Chanimal, they would get so confused and never play
Also another big point in watching wow PvP isn't even just the addons and UI, there's not really any clear feedback for most abilities.
Say you kidney someone, a new player has 0 clue what button you just pressed or even what it does. Some stuff like rootbeam do it pretty well, its clearly a bad thing to stand in but most of it I probably couldn't tell you what happened
It takes so much game knowledge to see when someone did something really skillful that it's just not interesting to watch
WoW PVP is dead, just get over it and find a new game already. WoW PvP will never get new blood in the game, so yeah its dying. I stopped PVP 2 weeks after Shadowlands release and I been playing WoW since TBC 2007, I even stop playing retail after 2 weeks of Shadowlands. There are SO many other better games out there for PvP, but I guess all the "Elites" are so proud of their game and never find anything other then WoW being good, sad lifes. But hey, its not to late to try other games.
This Asmongolds reaction to Pikaboo explaining pvp to Bellular is actually amazing.
Bellular has always been very unprofessional whilst pretending to be very professional and that's what makes him so cringe. He has these professional presentations of emotional rants and that's why I stopped watching years ago. Don't let the glasses fool you. He's not a logical person.
You basically described Asmongold as well.
Plunderstorm is "dead" because it is on an archaic subscription model. Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot if they don't learn the basics of modern gaming economics: make Plunderstorm FTP (Free-to-play), stand alone, and make those who still have a WoW subscription gain transmogs as additional incentives, otherwise new players can play for skins. Fortnite meets WoW is a potential success if it was ACCESSIBLE in the modern game-o-sphere!
Agreed Blizzard are so short sighted in stuff like this.
because that's not their plan, they made this for wow players - basically a lot of games do this now and blizzard is catching on it, where you have these limited time events that come and go during lull, not sure if you play league but riot does this with URF, arena, nexus blitz, one for all etc., it's a really good system imo
@@Korupcija but league is free?
Lmao fkn relax its a limited time event and its obviously in a test phase. Its not supposed to last atm. Talking about how a limited time event is "dead" when it was designed that was is tarded.
Hard disagree. Wow has stayed the same for all time without inflation compensating.
Dude, if Solo Shuffle queues were instant, or two minutes, or wtf ever, just short, the number of games would skyrocket. Myself and other people I know would rather play SS for four hours than raid or m+, but most not if most of that time is spent waiting. PIka nailed it.
I think people need to remember that a huge part of the PvP community are people who do unrated modes. Random BG ques and epic BG ques are extremely fast and there is a lot of world PvP. BG blitz also has relatively fast ques.
The problem most games suffer from is not their complexity, it's the pacing of delivering information to the player and pacing a new players experience in order to 1. Not bore them so they keep playing and 2. Not to overwhelm them with an overload of information so they quit.
It is a 2 pronged problem that is completely unsolvable.
Pika talking about people leaving the game in BG Blitz gave me a flashback to my match a couple nights ago when it was a 4v8 after half my team left
He's right I've played since vanilla and always loved arena. It was 50% of the game in the sense that it was really the only thing you could do after raid night but that didn't mean people would do it. It was never that popular I would have to beg people after raids were over to log in and do arena during the week just to be able to play the game between raids. People would just want to raid log and come back next week.A lot of these players would also moan and not show up for raids on hard mode progression bosses as well to be fair. The only time you'd see pve players doing pvp between raids was if there was a bis piece that was pvp only for that tier and blizz put a stop to that by making pvp gear only good for pvp. I had friends that had played since vanilla quit at the end of mop and never come back because there was "nothing to do between raids" and they would refuse to do arena.
What a refreshing video. I honestly love that Pika seems to have no clue who these guys are because they truly don't deserve to be known.
Hearing these three guys debate PvP sounds like Riley Reid talking about being a virgin
I think the problem that bliz got with the leaver is that they can't figure out how to seperate leaver ( on purpose) and dc's ! If they can/ could simple set the ratin to 0 instant when its on.purpose!
the biggest issue for wow pvp will always be barrier to entry...not difficulty...difficult in pvp will always scale....a lobby full of actual 1400 players will same difficulty for them....gearing is the biggest issue...should not be a thing in a pvp game. 2nd biggest issue is addons. Get rid of addons...get rid of gearing.....soloque will pop off.
Asman doesnt play wow and bellular doesnt pvp. Im having a blast in pvp. Every game is hard to get into. Have you ever played LoL of Dota 2 with no prior MoBA experience? Play CS2 with no fps experience or map/gun experience and ur fucked. Ppl act like wow is impossible to learn ive gotten to 2k which isnt high in several season with like 3 addons no WA's as a 30 year old gamer.
An intelligent comment. Such a rare thing to see from the people that play this game
2k is nothing tho, so not sure how that supports your argument in any way
30 lol ur a BOOMER
bellular barely even plays the game also, not just doesnt play pvp, ppl have found his characters and he hasnt logged on in months
@@VDViktor2k is nothing? Are you stupid? Lol 2k is a single digit percent of players.
I still wish they'd add either 2s shuffle or rated dueling so that you can just queue up and get into a game instantly and practice your character.
Rewards based on how well you perform your spec so that all specs are innately viable.
im a pve player, 12 years in, i think wow pvp i was the most important aspect of vanilla, because players got gear to pvp back in the mmo old days, but yes after that pvp were losing space to pve because its easier to interact with people, more laidback, mechanics, fun...
also mmos are losing space in general
i'm so glad Pika gets as angry as me watchingllular lol, i was thinking the same sht watching it. Pika we
11:55 not true in the slightest. season 1 of shadowlands was the largest population season of pvp the game has EVER seen... regardless if you blame the fact pve'rs had to pvp for ilvl it was POPPIN!!!
to add, mop it 100% felt like half if not MORE than half, but that because when you think about it wtf did pve players even have to do all week?? m+ wasnt out yet so they just sat there...
plunderstorm was easy to queue, easy to watch, a separated game mode and died in 3 weeks. The issue is way more deep.
For me personally I felt there was no overlap between wow and plunderstorm, but you've made plunderstorm with that wow engine or whatever and it feels dated - nobody is going to be interested in this except wow players already - and then I tried about 5 games and hated it, there was absolutely no fun and the same problems with damage numbers, ui, clunky added buttons etc. from wow carried over
In vanilla, pvp definitely felt more popular. Lots of people that raided would take their raid gear into bg's to have fun with it, seemed like that's how the game was played... no one cared about speed running crap or this parsing nonsense... It was chill with your friends in a raid group, then form a smaller group to go into bg's to test out the new gear you all got.
there wasnt arenas until BC, so it was group pvp or get ganked in Silverpine or STV, but yeah its a fair point
In TBC ppl still did world pvp did bgs in raid gear. There were more ppl interested in pvp and less options for pvp. Wow was the PC game to play until cata and slowly died off in wod.
Pvp was way more popular until around cata or mop. The mlg arena games in tbc and wotlk were getting hundreds of thousands of concurrent viewers. Wow has never achieved anything like that since. Raiding has always been a very niche part of the game.
there are many in sod and wotlk who care about parses. please dont lie.
@@sinnis4993 vanilla is not sod or wotlk
I wish they had a chart for arena games played per month over the past decade. I suspect played games declined after the 9 week mark as everyone had beaten the game. They were starting to become fully geared, and started to lose incentive to play.
As much as people disliked PvP progression (item upgrades) it incentivized players to participate in different PvP modes as well as battlegrounds. Catering to players with multiple alts, and players that only play 4 hours a week was a huge mistake imo.
okay..i was so confused but one fact i squeaked from this it is hard to find stable partners on that i can nod..and personally my partner he was so scared on start he said to me i am not good so dont crush me and i type to him chillax it is just a game for me after that he was like freaking relieved from curse or something...i mean with that toxic players can really damage people and they never will be play again...so maybe 1.long ques 2.human factor
weird to me, that they didn't know wtf is going on in arena...
I didn't play retail for years and even I knew that there are 6 people in solo shuffle (aka 3vs3) ...
Having pika come behind these dudes that were recorded at one point in time. Being reacted to by asmon at another point in time.
Pika is definitely living on the best timeline hahah
His face when they asked how long does a solo shuffle last 😂 @ 24:20
Ive been doing pretty much nothing but arena since mop. highest i ever got was 2200 and the problem i have with wow arena is that unless you are able to play all day and are a god... or you have a consistent team that you play with and you don't have a real life.... you just aren't getting gladiator. Its frustrating that the mounts are locked behind what seems like such a massive wall. Like yes I have improved over the years but I cant compete with kids that can play all day.
It definitely depended your server, but PvP felt much more present the first few expansions.
My dad was always in TM/SS wars, multi day AVs, city raids, etc - and even when I joined late BC and played most between then and like S2 Legion, I recall the largest presence and most active friend group for me of similar minded individuals LK thru MOP and a bit of a resurge in Legion and then it fell off by multiplicative chunks with the xpacs that followed.
And with Classic release; I had a similar experience with Grobb & also on a LK private server prior to Classic.
I see ALOT of people say that wow pvp is for unskilled people that would be low ranked in other games…
I always thought wow was hard as fuck
Yeah this is the hardest game I've ever played. I cant think of what game is more complicated than wow pvp and how often it changes and all the addon work you gotta do
32:30 hard copium - just because people 'can't play it' doesn't mean it's good. If loads of people 'can't play it' and therefore aren't playing it, then... is it good? Nope.
"I was really into pvp, I was a flag carrier for rbgs." - Asmongold
If they just made a no healer solo shuffle option ques would pop all the time. It could 2v2 or 3v3 or whatever as long as it was ranked and gave conquest ppl would gravitate to it.
Sadly wouldn't work for most classes since most need healers, I think it would divide the community further
Friend issue is why I never pvped until solo shuffle came out all of my friends I play with are strictly pve and trying to get them to even attempt or try pvp is like taking their first born child
This is why THE MOVE is the best gaming org/ team. No toxicity, no complaining. Just good dudes having fun
All they gotta do is make a really dumb but basic AI not (similar to what they have in comp stomp AB). When someone abandons the match, their player is taken over by the bot, and a big unique BOT nameplate replaces their own, and it remains the duration of whatever game mode.
The bot will inevitably underperform, and the rating it earns, will be transferred to the abandoning player’s rating, followed by a 1 -> 6 -> 12 hour Queue penalty
I would be down for this in solo shuffle it sucks when you have someone afk on your team 3 rounds as a healer then as soon as they go to other healer they leave and you lose rating. This happens ALOT. Or other healer leaves after losing 3 rounds.
I'd say instead of whatever rating they get, just subtract a baseline large amount. Like 150 mmr to make it really not likely someone leaves.
But I'd also have like warnings too. Like sometimes life gets in the way, sometimes you just super tilted and need to calm down and leave out of frustration even though for that specific player leaving isn't really common.
I was really hoping that Xaryu would do a reaction video, to your reaction video, to Asmon's reaction video, to the reaction to modern PvP in WoW. 4 corner cam could have been the new meta.
PvP was very popular back in Vanilla. Majority of players back then were playing on PvP servers.
I think it's pretty accepted at this point that pvp is a much smaller proportion of the player base than the raiders/dungeon players. The numbers they are looking at however aren't a great comparison to show that gap.
Making the game so every class doesn’t have 4 different interrupts is a good start to fixing it. Nothing more frustrating as a healer than walking into an arena and getting chain cc’d for 10 seconds while your teammate dies. I’ve been playing the game since 2006. I can only imagine how somebody that’s new to the game would feel.
Toxic games are an escape from boring rule driven reality. Removing the ability to be toxic is ruining my ability to emerge myself with the thoughts that make me let loose from the rules.
I think it all just boils down to: no one is actually enjoying the gameplay anymore and queues don't pop. People are constantly watching R1s and top parsers and thinking their experience will be close to that lol. Just enjoy the game at ur own level/pace. MoP, imo, was the best/active pvp expansion next to legion. Wpvp was alive, world events were relative, arenas were active, being social was a thing still lmao, class was balanced in the sense that everyone basically nuked each other with basically no GCD back then, and there were challenge mode/MT/heroic/mythic raid introduction. And yeah those guys are basically info YT content creators lol. I wouldn't trust their opinion on PVE or PVP. It's like Apex Legends, there are cheaters on it and sometimes queues are long when u get into the higher ranks. But it's still active because people enjoy the game and don't care TOO much about winning or losing. And there lies another problem within WoW: everyone cares WAY too much about winning/losing that it makes for a shitty environment to play lol. I don't find it surprising that healers stop queuing when team mates are constantly flaming them every single queue
In the great before times I did pve so I could pvp. In LK you wanted some leather pieces from ICC for Ret Pally pvp gear. I did world pvp stuff, the wintergrasp, that town in Nagrand, the flags in Hellfire. I stopped playing early Cata and only came back right before SL. The game was definitely 50% pvp for me, and the 50% pve was just so I could more easily get into pvp.
Edit: Queuing for a single 2v2 or 3v3 match feels bad, especially if you are bad. You get banged out in the opener and then you're going back through a loading screen to ready up for your next queue, for the next minute wait, for the next loading screen, for the gates to open, to play again.
The only issue with pvp is like you said the avaliableilty it'd impossible to log in and just play
bro great vid! love your content! keep up the great work!
Thank you!
Been playing since launch I do all content in the game pvp being my favorite I’m currently 1800 in 3s 2s and rbgs I don’t do solo shuffle had a bad experience and decided to stay away but honestly I think any game where the pvp is basically the same maybe more or less ability’s added in at different times over a 20 year period it’s not gonna feel fresh and the game is way to complicated for new players tried to get my brother to play but having 20 keybinds to learn when your coming from a console set up can be demoralizing
Dude they just wanted to show a graph pointing down. That's it. It could have been a graph about how much rain we got in the last month for they all know lol
I'm glad you were trying to break down that graph and try to make it make sense. They were comparing apples to oranges with pvp and mythic keys
Who is watching this 😂😂😂
PvP did feel like half the game a long time ago. When my friends and I would make new characters in BC/wrath we would ask, are we going PvP or PvE characters? Nowadays that is completely gone
simple pvp should be a seperate client like plunderstorm, you pick your class and q and the classes are condensed version of the class with like 10 buttons, no talents and maybe just pvp talent options
didn't expect people to be so against players that quit and their takes on why they quit. it's just people saying they don't play so their opinion doesn't matter when those are the opinions you should be looking at.
the average player is not sniffing 2200 in arena. I usually hit around 2200 and my friends are usually 1800 -2k at best and play all the time. Chart makes no sense
pvp was like 70% of the game in vanilla and every exp it went down atleast 10%, as someone who has played it from vanilla til legion without break doing both pvp and pve on a high lvl i'm quite sure of that
Edit: its so true how its all just about being able to just QUE, had 5 chars fully pvp/pve eqt in classic tbc and i just wanted to QUE arena raids w/e but its so dam impossible, finding arena mates in this toxic community despite having multi glad exp and being on r1 range AT THE MOMENT on main was dam impossible, same happend in wotlk... not even talking about retail anymore where there are so many more things that prevent you from playing
PvP needs 3 very simple fixes to make people stop quitting 1 week into the season.
1. Always have MMR Inflation on. Deflating the season, most seasons, down to below 2400 immediately signals to people that you should log off and come back in 3-4 months. This is a trained behaviour. Most people know this to be the case right now. Look up threads of people struggling to push rating at the start of seasons and what are the responses "wait a few months." Sorry - I want to play and earn my rewards *now.* Turn on the MMR inflation and keep it on forever. Who gives a crap if people are 4k rating at the end of the season?
2. Hire a single guy, just one, who keeps an eye on balance in PvP. There is absolutely zero reason Demon Hunters should have been allowed to do 50-100% more damage than every other spec in the game while being unkillable for the first 3 months of the season. Zero. None. This should've been a 1 week thing, max. You don't need to get balancing perfect, but no spec should ever be 10% better than average. At the start of S3, something like 85 of the top 100 characters were Demon Hunters. Unacceptable. Pull a guy off the street and have him work on it. Weekly balance changes for the first month, bi-weekly after that until the end of the season. Absolutely zero excuse this isn't happening already.
3. Make healer MMR better in shuffle. You should never be able to go 5 or 6-0 and gain zero rating as a healer. It shouldn't be possible. 6-0 should be at bare minimum a guaranteed 25 rating. Throw MMR and rating at these guys. I don't care. I want to play the game and these guys gatekeep my queues. Convince them to queue by making healer the FOTM role for once instead of DH/DK/Warlock.
Implement these 3 changes and people will stick around after week 1 and will do the thing that always happens when the content is fair and rewarding - make tons of alts. Just like you did in 5.4 or 6.2 or 9.1 or 10.0. People love playing when they can earn things and it feels fair. If you can't earn things, people won't play, and if it doesn't feel fair but you can earn things, then they'll only do it once to 'get it over with.'
inflation and deflation become unnecessary if they had just kept titles/rewards on a % basis rather than a flat number
They coul sort your spells by defensives, offensive and cc in your spell book. The could tag your talents in the same way. So people would understand faster what every ability is. 🤓
the amount of copium in the comments and honestly from the pvp community. arena is dying... it had a good run, not many game modes and games last 15+ years but be happy it happened. Ion already confirmed on war within alpha interview that rated solo rbgs (blitz) is now their main focus for pvp, and i love that approach. bgs are way more fun and blitz was enjoyable
super good point about fixing leavers, then NEED to fucking punish you if u leave, if you do that shit enough on league you get banned. At least ppl keep playing even if they give up 10 mins in and soft int
Best way to fix solo shuffle is make it where it will queue 6 dps in the same lobby
Agree that while balance helps, just not being able to play and leavers is just the worst aspect of it by far. Its also daunting for people to engage in a mode using 40 keybinds plus and focus macro etc. btw bellular and asmond are super casual. I used to play PVP more but mythic plus my friends are into more so I do that. We used to LOVE doing battlegrounds etc but arena never been a big thing for us. Agree on the addons too in pvp.
Always hate. Things fall apart. Wow is dead every other week. Bullshit. Thanks Pika taking it apart, don’t get sucked into this mindset.
Make it where if you leave you get a debug and after the third time of leaving In a week span they cannot queue for a week
Hot take unbalanced games are fun and the reason league has success is they are constantly adjusting and making changes so different characters are strong all the time, itd be cool if wow had more pvp balance patches not to make the game more balanced but to rotate more classes into top tiers and low tiers to make it more fresh vs rogue mage dominance for 20 years straight
As someone who has played comp games all my life,CSGO, Fortnite, League of Legends, Overwatch and semi pro Valorant. I really dont get why ppl hate WoW, i dabbled in and out of WoW since Legion and been playing activly end of SL and i love the game, its all i play nowadays. The only thing id say i dont like abt the game is the Elitetism, other then that is probably the most fun i have had in gaming in a long time. And about the Skill factory in WoW, for me its way easier to be "good" at wow then to be "good" at Valorant" Playing Valorant at a high Level was probably the most toxic environment i was in, You wake up you scrim for hours against teams, you aimtrain, warmup, need to find a good mouse/keyboard that works for you, find a Sense and all of other factors. In WoW it feels way easier, ye maybe at times there is a lot going on, and you may need some addon for some mechanics. But id rather do that then what i had to do to stay "good" at Valorant. And from a Casual perspection, if you dont want to be a high level player in WoW, i dont see why it would be hard to have fun as a casual. I Feel like most players who say that WoW might be to hard, or is not Casual friendly, are people who just want to be the best at something but are to lazy to put in time, so they complay. And all of that im saying from someone who is working a full time job, so its not like i can play these games 24/7