They need to streamline how mechanics, abilities and effects are shown to players in order to improve the visual feedback so you can actually tell what is going on, what abilities are cast, etc. without having to rely on addons. I feel like this is the only way the game can be healthy in the long run, both for PvP and PvE. Things need to look more clear and defined, instead of the mess that it is now.
For me personally I quit after 2-3 months due to the lack of progression. I miss the days where you could push higher rating and get rewarded by upgrading your gear. I used to help a few PvE bro's in PvP, teaching them the mindset and the flow of battle, my higher PvP ilvl would help keep me alive to assist/help them enjoy the game mode. They would get so excited each time we hit a new rating, upgrade that gear, test it out, enjoy the extra dps and survivability. Now you basically max your conquest each week and log off to play other games. Once you are max conquest there's nothing more to do. You beat the game, wait until next season.
@@fofolacosa123 it is but weakaura take it to next level, ppl only use them cuz other does, if we are all stuck at same level let's say mythic 25 no one will feel bad about it, weakayra just inflate the mmr bit more
@@hllridr mythic 10 isnt hard for anyone but if new player aim to hight keys sure it's pain without weakaura, but we only push 25 cuz other are doign 30 if we remove weakaura and some addon both pro and low will drop some key and no one will feel bad about it, it's just inflation
Bellular video is the telephone game. And the more he shares there’s the information gets. But he’s focused on lore the most. Always has. Not so much as a deep understanding of pve or pvp. Just the surface stuff.
It also comes down to the core mechanics of WoW + power creep, for example: tracking buffs/debuffs is very hard now, every class has so many passives that clutter up the UI. In a game like GW2, they merge all debuffs to non-class specific icons, so you can very easily tell you are dotted or cc'ed.
I started playing WoW solo in WoD before mythic plus. When I got to max level I did a little bit of LFR and farming mounts, then noticed the PvP gear was better than the LFR gear so I started doing random battle grounds like crack. Then I found out I needed to do arena to get the dope purple gear. I then turned into a full time PvP player watching people like xaryu and even you in the soda poppin tournament. Once I got my full purple PvP set in WoD I camped outside orgrimmar and absolutely destroyed in random battle grounds. Never got higher than 1700 rating but I had so much fun and the only add on I used was gladius. Once legion came out and the gear got so fucking complicated with artifact power and other things I had to give it up. I liked just getting my purple gear and being on the same level gear wise as all other PvPers.
Im a 15 Year long Player 2x R1 4x Glad i stopped with Legion aswell Warrior was Dogshit Playstyle was Dogshit Rotations felt bad and way to much Shit all those Legendarys yeah i totaly feel you it was horrible to play..
@@Herogames2022 yeah just getting arena currency and buying the pieces after gettting like 4-5 wins felt so much better than having to go do artifact power and legendaries
i came back to wow and i tried heal in arena and thats so hard now and annoying dps are doing so much like its look they are bursting every 30s and my mana going down so fast soo how to deal with that, i think only healer that already playing wow for the last 3-4 years can deal with that but for new its so hard
I watch Xaryu, he doesn't even have a answer for it. His solution is to make Plunderstorm it's own game as free to play with cosmetics like LOL. Because retail pvp is dying off and nobody new likes that game mode and the current player base is dying.
Rofl no way you guys trolling on this man’s content with that after he complimented ya’ll after dissing Bellular or whatever that PvE content creators name is 💀
@@Kanoog Wrong, Xaryu's answer is that PvP and PvE need to be balanced separately like it used to but it's too far gone at this point and the game would need a complete overhaul.
@@Kanoog nah what he said was PVP needs to be a separate free to play client with less abilities to be able to draw in and retain new players. Absolutely no one is paying $15 grinding to end game and gearing up pvp wise to try pvp for the first time. f2p mode with cosmetic rewards would be totally different.
i can confirm, i had my rsham and rdruid to 2400 in solo shuffle two seasons in Dragon Flight, it was a nightmare 90% of the time with how raiting works. It was so annoying that i quit playing WoW all together, so i am 1 less active healer because of the raiting system.
I quit after aug was introduced. They already made ret broken 10.0.7 and now 10.1.5 they repeat the same thing and add a busted class. Im sure another rework will come that dominates too and im glad i wont play it
@@Haonnn Aug was never "busted" in PvP. It was broken in PvE for a while, but not PvP. It was strong in certain 3s comps, but not OP. It was mid in shuffs, and completely unplayable in 2s. By the end of July 2023 (the month that Aug came out), there were only 2 Augmentation Evokers and 3 Retribution Paladins in the top 50 on the 3v3 ladder. They were worse in 2v2. Druids, shamans, and mages dominated the DPS meta at the time, not paladins or evokers.
As a new player as of 2024 I really needed this video! I have so many issues both with the game and with mechanics that should be able to have been fixed over the years..
I asked my cousin who works on quest design at Blizz what’s been going on with PvP and he said they shifted their design focus to PvE awhile ago. Class toolkits are created and balanced with static PvE encounter, and new content and systems are from a raid/mythic+/open world/delve perspective. They basically stopped asking “how will this function in PvP” and they now tweak things retroactively. They wanted to overhaul some PvP features in Shadowlands but apparently COVID and the lawsuit threw a wrench in a lot of those plans and now the project has been in limbo ever since. They’re often under tight time and money constraints so by the time they reach PvP there’s little dev time or resources left to work on it.
This actually makes a lot of sense. Was there any indication from your cousin as to any possibility of the development team eventually looking more into PvP? Or are they not losing enough subs to care about it, ever?
@@aaronhazelwood6110 Well from what I gathered he said Brian Holinka was the big PvP Guy in the office but he left and was replaced by a guy whose main focus has been the new Delve and Follower Dungeon encounters. I’m hoping that maybe with the success of Plunderstorm, perhaps they bring on another PvP dev to pick up where Holinka left off.
Ive been saying this for a while. To fix the Solo Shuffle queue problem blizzard needs to make it so if you sit in a queue for more than 3 mins a prompt will allow you to choose if you want to queue with AI healers or not. If to choose yes, if will put you in a lobby with 3 other real DPS and 2 AI healers similar to comp stomp(maybe make them slightly smarter). Since both healers will be AI, the teams will be on equal footing regardless of rating and this technology already exists in the game so it wouldnt be that hard to implement. Then you would never need to wait more than 3 mins for a queue, and if you hate playing with AI healers, choose no and wait the normal queue time.
If someone only has say 2-3 hours at night to play and they wanna pvp, it really kills the mood sitting in SS que for long periods. We wanna be able to play when we have time, and feel rewarded for it. That can't be a thing in SS if 70% of your 2-3 you have to play at night is spent sitting in SS que. Why would bother, you can accomplish more doing PVE. Players need to feel rewarded for the time they are putting into their characters. If blizzard can make pvp feel rewarding again and not so much time wasted on being in q, i think they would be on a good path to improving pvp.
arena has always been incredibly difficult to watch and grasp. There's so much shit going on the screen ever since it was released that it's hard to keep up. Only the top of arena players can watch these matches and truly understand what's going on.
Buff mmr in shuffle by about 300, put glad mount in shuffle, having no worth while rewards past 2100 is the main issue boom shuffle would have fucking insane participation and Q would be popping
it would be nice if they made expansion rewards (like a battlepass almost) for PvP. The fact we still have rewards from Legion is saying a lot. They could also make Soloque/ duo battlegrounds which would be great. the fact you can get all your base gear in 5 hours says a lot too. I don't play a lot of Arena but for randoms/ battlegrounds this is what i would like
i will sign under solo shuffle is bad because of healers. due to my IRL work i have limited time to play, so i mostly play classes with healing spec, for insta queues and insta invites. season 3, i played almost every healer (off season at work). my highest healer is 1650 or so. resto druid, the most OP healer, i can't get out of 1400. yeah i no pika or anything, but solid 1800-1900 player. i went to do 2s with my friend, who also has busy schedule. we went fury warrior and resto shaman. resto shaman that is most bloated class in game, requiring you to be a piano player and fury war being one of weakest melee for arena. we got to 1890. with MMR at 2k. we got it in 2 nights. with all my healers in Solo shuffle, im about 3000 games for the season combined. evoker, paladin, shaman, priest, monk, resto druid. i 100% agree, that SS is fking healers. another problem with pvp, is that rewards technically end at 1800, there is nothing at 1900, nothing at 2000, nothing after 2100 unless you do 3s for glad mount. there have to be rewards every 100 rating and, smaller incentives every 50 rating. on top of it. it should give a rating protection. let's say you hit 50 rating mark, for next game if you end up losing, you dont lose mmr nor rating, but only for 1 game. if you drop 50, than go back up 50, you get that 1 game protected again.
as a pve player some of the button/ability bloat feels bad even there... aditionally with age comes less time to play, and once u cant get the rewards you want after spending 2 hours ingame, of course you avoid that type of gameplay. i havent touched pvp since season 1 dragonflight outdoor wq - killing your own faction was actualy fun in those world quests, getting 10 kills with that set made u a GOD. :) raid takes a lot more coordination and time than a m+ and, except of fated shadowlands raids, i havent done any since 2016 blackrock raid... that being said m+ ofers the best weekly progression over the season with minimal participation. i hope they wont nerf that cuz i will be left with nothing to enjoy ingame an just cancel sub.
I have stopped after reaching duelist with 3 charakters. I can play like 5 hours a week and dont have the time to improve more to win against r1 players
@25:45 THIS. That is exactly what the problem is. Incentives will help and I completely agree with them, but ultimately your rating gain/loss is totally different as a healer because you're basically playing against 1 other person. If you go 3-3 as a healer, you should be getting 50-75 rating gain MINIMUM, at least within the current system. There's a ton of lobbies where a single DPS either carries or tanks the entire lobby and it's insanely frustrating as a healer to have that happen over and over again, causing you to be stuck in the mud.
@@AkConnerman why do you want to get rewarded for not being able to gap the enemy healer and make a difference? 3-3 means 0 rating, you were just as bad/good as your counterpart, simple, and unable to make a proper impact
@@maarten0123456789 point I was making is that it's super common for one of the DPS to be far worse than the rest and they go 0-6, or one of the DPS does 6-0, and then you end up 3-3 as the healer and are stuck in the mud. Even going 4-2 barely rewards any rating gain typically, which feels frustrating regardless of what role you are and I think speaks to how broken the MMR system is. What you're saying also makes sense because my solution sounds like a participation trophy and I get that, but I think the community as a whole is trying to think of ways to fix solo shuffle queue times and the main issue is healer retention. If you feel like you're constantly being trolled then you're just going to stop playing it altogether, which included myself. Essentially I would argue for giving healers a handicap as an incentive to play more, as well as other incentives such as cosmetic rewards. Just brainstorming, but any fix would be better than what's currently there. Keep in mind those are solutions I'd propose within the current MMR system, but I think most people would agree that the best first step would be to overhaul that entirely and then look at things such as incentives if it's still needed.
@@Da5kone001 They did it the worst possible way, static gear with static stats. So if everyone gets the same stats ye people hate it cus some classes dont need the stat they get. Make it templates you can customize. Say you go to the current conquest vendor, say "those shoulders, that weapon, those rings" etc etc and thats your loadout that you get in instanced pvp. Would make it possible for people to play alts and lower the barrier of entry for returning / new players
@@konsmiddel so the current system after 3-4 weeks is exactly what you want? All stats customizable it takes a day to gear a toon for pvp currently especially with brawl queues being quick and giving conq/vault cap (you have full honor gear and can compete full conq gear takes a few play sessions)
I think everyone should be rewarded in shuffle based on contributions not always a win. I stopped playing cause I could be killing it but still lose cause of how the rounds worked so then it was an hour worth of my time for 25 honor... But if I could even earn some conquest on a loss it would be a lot easier for more casual pvp players to get into it. I used to PvP hard but now I am old and mostly run keys with my limited time and looking for groups for arena sucks I play alone so no friends either which also makes it hard and if I spend my time on solo shuffle and have little to no wins then I can't progress so I just gave up on pvp entirely and I miss it so much.
They should make pvp different "game"...like only pvp items, no tier sets, you can choose stats so everyone can have bis gear, no addons, different talent trees for pvp and just pure blast..they also should be less mmr and rating gain..like win +2, lose -1 so mmr and rating has to be closer for all. And in shuffle it has ot be more wins +2, less wins -1..3-3..+0 or +1 idk
ill die on this hill. make every healer broken af. i remember them nerfing hpal in season 2 cause it was one of the best healers and thinking "why not buff the others to match this?"
I think they just need to make some attracting reward for PvP , give more points to a healer( give them CR for a 3-3) and then ur good, game will feel more alive PvP side .. it really isn’t hard of a fix or at least to try it out … they should go crazy for season 4 and try things out
They already made abilities work different in PvP and used templates so gear doesn't matter, two big this to balance classes. They just need to commit more to tuning, they have tools to do that won't affect PvE side even. But yes, certain bloat on top of CC issue and addons need work. Arena games should not last more then like 7min or so, CC, absorbs, instant casts need to be kept in control and they definitely need have a deep look at how addons affect the modern game. Because, they can easily implement some things that addons cover without WA like nonsense, thus making cleaner UI and same for all.
20:40 They're trialling Plunderstorm, it's fun and simple. Within simplicity, complexity can be found. That being said. Make PVP free and standalone to WOW. Reduce buttons down to 10 max buttons (or less), allow for easy transition to console for more players. Allow solo shuffle for 2v2 dps and keep the current 3v3 2dps & 1 healer. No addons, but allow customisation of showing buffs / debuffs on players. No gear grind, just choose a class and queue. Talents like diablo 3, where it's just simple to quickly customise your loadout. E.g More damage for Arcane Barrage or add a dot to it instead, or gives you a speed run boost. Shop for customisation, mounts and pets. Wow players can customise their character with their current transmogs from the game and may incentivise the free players to join WOW and farm these cosmetics, mounts and pets.
Amen i hope they listen to you! I love to heal and I have been screaming since solo shuffle came up that the 3-3 result match for healer feels so bad. I sweat like a mother f* just to get a 3-3 and as a result I get punished with very little points or 0 and all the DPS happy getting much more points than me. So unfair!
returning to game after lots of years, from wotlk period, where i was maxed out in pvp and pve, and right now, i am so confused... stugled to even level up properly with overwhelming quest pop ups, then i was like oh finally i can play some pvp at least, and well yeah, not happening.
pve player here love watching ur video. last time i tried pvp was in shadowland after getting burst within 2 sec by balance druid conkove/ rogue and fire mage for 10 straight game i said fck it bye bye. hopefully i got the courage to try it again someday😅
All of this started in Cata -> MoP. Game became CD spam and low sustained damage outside of them. Dispel game getting removed and mobility game getting destroyed was just the start. PVE rotations and damage ramp ups instead of sustained damage makes casters aids, and makes damage multipliers too high.
Just make it so that if not enough healers, then match 3 dps together against 3 dps. When the search is happening, look for free healers to assign in the comp, if no healers available, catch the dps classes waiting and match them together in a 3v3 and there you go.
Honestly I used to only pvp but since being a dad I only really pled M+ due to severe time cuts. So I saw this a while back and I was soo offended also but I am not new to wow at all and have played since nearly the beginning but I have a lot more time so I thought I would drop pve and get back into pvp and boy did that change my tune. I know it's the end of an expansion but I figured with the closeish gap between honor and conquest and solo shuffle being a thing and since I have no friends I thought I'd give it a whirl. The power level while better is so noticeable and bliz does nothing to change it. At a point in the season the conquest gate is just stupid. I may get flamed for this but idgaf, I am so less geared then everyone else who is a pvper trying out specs and it's noticeable the conquest gear should have a reduced price or gains increased as seasons go on. Like most people I find the most fun when I am geared not gearing in pvp. I get it early season but the currency transfer is broken and you'd think they'd just add the marks in for honor again but nope so I have to raw gear my toons in honor... Fine then the gains on conquest for a casual sucks in general but easily dooable if you start fresh. There is no easy way into pvp at all at this point and god forbid playing more than 1 class as the next xpack would be out by the time I geared up. My take away is degen to gear or wait until next xpack which really sucks not being able to play really in any capacity... other than bgs. I'm sure I could pug more and take more verbal abuse for being not the best out of the gate and warming up but interactions all change with stats. Pre patch in the very least should have some way to gear up faster imo. Anyways mindless not thought out rant is over but I guess I will try out some more next month, and for all the others old souls out there going at it solo I wish you good luck!
Give all healers a legendary that’s BIS in PVE and can work for their offspec DPS, that can only be obtained in PVP, and queue times will go wayyyy down.
The biggest factor everyone is missing. They’re comparing a $15 monthly subscription plus game purchase vs free games with a purchase. If it even has a purchase. Most of these are being compared to free games.
Why not move the stuns to the "hero" spec that are coming out? That's way you can't have like 4 stuns and hard cc. Also, I think add-ons should go the way of the dodo
I never saw the problem of addons, i downloaded a few useful ones and made sure my ui was kept to a minimum. And everything is fine and not over the top.
Pika said give healers mmr and not make them loose rating and play 0 effect 3:3 games. ppl wouldn’t care for sub par healers, they just want to play the game. I want to add that ppl would not have to wait 40 minutes for a game and loosing would not hurt that much. There we have a solution
I love healing and I don't mind DF healing, but when healing is harder to climb rating than dps, for a challenging, thankless role, you just feel like you're wasting your time. Yeah. They need to massively increase healing rewards. People would play healers for cool rewards.
With the introduction of Plunderstorm, they should make PvP a separate mode, toning classes down, no add-ons, etc. and would allow them to lobby all players in one area.
For me as a healer the reason I quit playing is rather simple. I got tired of the game punishing me for playing well. If I avoided CC, traded CDs properly, and managed to control damage to keep my allies alive what is my reward? A stacking debuff on my ability to do my job because players that don't know how to shut me down are so bad they need to have my class gutted in order to win. If pvp is suppose to be about skill than there shouldn't be any global nerfs to specific classes like dampening. All dampening does is allow bad DPS to beat good healers and I'm sorry but if with all the CC available in the game you can't score a kill on a healer than you are bad. If they removed dampening in shuffle I would be spam healing the damn mode on every single healing spec in the damn game but as long as I get punished for being better than DPS than DPS can suffer with freaking 4 hour queue times for all I care.
what about switching the rating system to something similar with mythic + where you don't lose the rating. also, restrict leaving arena especially in solo shuffle and solo rbg. i belive that with a system of rating similar with m+ even if it will restructure rated pvp at a fundamental level .. without the loosing rating part you will absolutely get new blood in the game with a actually real shot of getting the rewards.
Reduce cc heals and defensives. What I mean is if you get a cc you lose a heal or defensive. Make it every spec is unique feral vs boomy let's say. Feral gets defensive and has a heal but almost no cc but boomy has no defense a couple ccs and a heal. Obviously this would mean you would want to party with people that help your short comings. But it makes everyone a little unique. Maybe arcane mage has 4 button rotation with 6 cc options now he is the conductor of the fight helping his team position and fight on there terms. Fire mage is a glass cannon that 6 button rotation with maybe a heal and one cc but if he gets his cast off you are screwed. And then for pve just give tanks and healer more options to protect their team pallys get raid bop that shields 10 people with a bop that lasts 2 secs priest get a shield that pops on 10 people. Shammys get a totem that builds a wall. Let dps be a bit more squishy but thankful to the tank and heals who protect them
i think its salvageable , you give every class a massive overhaul make them feel very unique and give them 10-15 buttons max you give UI a massive overhaul as well and ban addons , give incentives (major better ones than what is currently on retail) for raiding and pvping and that maybe gets you faster queues so players can come in and get that get in and get out type experience wich is much more doable for everyone
Pvp needs to have it's own 6-7 spells. This separates pvp from pve, makes balancing so much easier, talent tree wont affect pvp, pvp talents can only affect these 6-7 spells, disable addons, add rewards.
25:15 or getting a first time fistweaver on your team the first 3 rounds (lost all 3), then 4th round he swaps to other team, he got destroyed, then left, causing me to lose rating because i went 1-3 when it was going to be a 6-0 0-6 for the healers and 3-3 for all dps, so wack
I noticed as a healer in SS there's one bad player that makes the lobby go 3-3 and I end up receiving 0 mmr. Its not my fault no one can win with that guy on the team. Make that guy lose more mmr and give me and the other healer more mmr so we dont have to play with that guy again.
Sucks they cant phase abilities... Like once your inside the arena or bg. Every single spell you have works differently. If your in a mythic or dungeon or raid. It works different.
Man, here’s a solution I thought of to stop blizzard from ruining pvp arena by catering to mythic plus. All they have to do is make multiple legendary like items that buff class skills just for pve instances. That way any class and spec can be viable in pve without classes losing class identity in pvp. For example a legendary for a sub rogue that makes shuriken storm bounce each hit. Then another one that maybe makes shadowstrike also hit multiple targets, etc etc and let them equip multiple at a time so they can farm these items and customize builds. This way blizzard doesn’t have to destroy class identity and just let PVErs get items to power their skills instead of giving them all OP identical talents.
i see people with sci fi movie console UI on their screen and it instantly turns me off ever touching it they have to completely rework pvp from the ground up and disable addons
The fixes are actually simple...allow only u.i. based add-ons and introduce a max debuff amount which will be displayed over your character...I think a fair number is 4. If more than 4 debuffs are applied to a toon then they just fall off as new ones come...so at no point will a healer will have no more than 4 things to track...Open all transmog as rewards for pvp attainable with points earned in rated pvp. No more gear resets in pvp...ever...for the entire expansion for pvp you should get a set of gear for free...and then you can upgrade it with points attainable by playing rated pvp. NO MORE SEASONS!!! And yes pvp and pve should be fully separated. They are two entirely different games and should be treated as such.
the only way to change arena is to completely separate it from the game, completely remove it from wow and add a buton in the character select screen like for plunder storm that puts you in a separate server where everything is gonna be tuned around arena, no more class tuning around pve, gut all classes and make them unique again and completely disable all addons like in plunderstorm, if even then people don't want to play pvp just abandon it, nothing will ever save it
I still play without addons and weakauras. I had no idea people were even using addons and weakauras. It's no wonder people feel like they have superhuman reactions in current retail.
I kind of haven't played WoW since season 1 so it's not my place to talk but wouldn't it make a little sense to give DPS a little toggle to say if they want a healer on their team or not? So all DPS can join in on a no healer queue or wait longer to have a healer on their team. And to make it fair if you choose no healer you only ever match against other teams with no healer
They could rework pvp if they want. Final fantasy did it too. It got way more simple with the 6 or 8 buttons idk + heal and def for everyone. Had lots of fun there with the rework. Definetly way more fun than before with the 30+ spells.
@@trebortnulb5279 Class design fundamentally shifted in Legion to accommodate the M+ gameplay loop. Largely as the Skillcapped video already pointed out. Every spec needed to be a given proper defensive suites and means of on demand burst. Melee were near universally given cleave (oftentimes entirely passively such as in the case of DHs etc) whilst casters were forced into selecting between ST and cleave focus via talents. Melee were also provided additional mobility to maintain uptime between packs. The result was an arms race of upfront zero counterplay burst windows, hack-and-slash gameplay for melee, and ambient cleave. Created a giga unhealthy design space that left PvP no room to breathe.
Oh it's easy, you just need to keep track if 5-6 cooldowns per character in the arena, and also read and look at all the buff\debuff icons on your characters while making sure to press your buttons on time and positioning yourself correctly 😆 No wonder why we see SAME faces in PvP pro scene for decades - games so complicated its impossible to get into
I don't know if you've played Heroes of the Storm but that game is still my favorite MOBA. Every character in that game is oozing with style, unique mechanics and great customization. I think fixing PVP in WoW requires to make a separate game. It can re-use WoW's assets so progress could carry over, but just like how we access Plunderstorm, we could have a WoW-Arena where you just log in, chose your spec and start blasting. The prior requirements to join regular Arena would be removed, hopefully.
honestly just think most of the resources now at blizzard are just being used for PvE with PvP being the absolute turbo last thing they do, when was the last time PvP was even good ? MoP? WoD? I remember when i came back to the game at the end of BfA S2 and being so confused as to why i had to basically become a PvE'r to play PvP, by the time i had gear to play PvP i just started pve'ing full time since even the systems felt more enjoyable and rewarding that PvP ones
Receiving conquest through bgs has only hurt pvp. Most people play it for their conquest dailies instead of gaining honor. So if it looks like a loss a majority will quit and take a 15 min debuff over playing the game. Gaining conquest from bgs is like an added bonus but it’s only hurting bgs and arena by people avoiding arena at all costs.
I was a die hard fan of pvp in retail and the reason I left and won't return is a: I was so sick to death of fighting dummies for hrs waiting for a game and sometimes it would take so long to get a game the queue would pop right when deciding to go to bed for work then it would repeatedly pop but not actually get me in a game and B: once you take a break for a few weeks returning is absolute hell, I tried and realized I am never going to play retail again. Instead of making these stupid classic versions for people that don't want anything changed and say it's all about the grind they just make a pvp only version
The thing is - there are a lot of different games for PvP players on the market at. In WoW you need to gear, you need to seek teammates yourself sitting in LFG for hours etc. For a new players it's not a gameplay they want, they want to lauch the game, click find game and just play. Plus, arena is boring af for a lot of players. Solo shuffle didn't do anything good for PvP either. Everything you need to do to get into PvP is too clanky.
the biggest issue for wow pvp will always be barrier to entry...not difficulty...difficult in pvp will always scale....a lobby full of actual 1400 players will same difficulty for them....gearing is the biggest issue...should not be a thing in a pvp game. 2nd biggest issue is addons. Get rid of addons...get rid of gearing.....soloque will pop off.
I was almost 2500 on both windwalkers last season for my first time ever the only addon i use are bigdebuffs and sarena honestly any more than that i feel is distracting
I absolutely hate PVP cause i suck and its frustrating, but I do enjoy watching PvP streamers over Mythic streamers. The atmosphere and Energy is way more exciting.
I think they should make PvP a seperate launcher like plunder and then make it so addons cant be used. Limit the abilities that can be used. You still get the rewards on the character you want to play but now you can have completely seperate PvP mode.
Do you guys remember the ret's patch? They just broke the meta with an op rework that lasted an entire month. The balance in the game is slow to a sub game, no wonder why pvp is dead.
Hit the nail on the head, more healers = more games, more games = more fun. I don't want to wait 30 mins+ for a single SS game. I want to play wow, not wait in que playing something else. Anything to reduce the shuffle que time would help immensely
I mean PvP in WoW has literally always been an afterthought. In classic rankings weren’t a thing at launch and it took even longer for the first BG to be introduced. PvP is fun, but it’s the side gamemode in WoW
As an RBG fan (I'm not a professional player, just a casual one), I can say that RBG for me and my team was killed not by other modes, but by boost packs of players who sell on third-party sites for REAL money (even if just for gold, I still find it disgusting), RBG rating raising services. They gather in flocks of 8-9 people, take anchors for themselves, and raise his rating. How does this spoil the game? When you're going to play with friends, you get hit several times by these players, who just destroy you, because your game skill corresponds to a rating of 1400, for example, and the actual rating of these guys is 2500. When you go to play alone, in some kind of group in search. You often run into these freaks who are already rating characters in order to get other customers. It is clear to everyone that you are already 100% draining your rating, because you have players in your team who came here for this. These players don't even hesitate to stream their gameplay on twitch. And the developers have not done anything about it...
Just returned for season 4 retail pvp and it’s more waiting than actually playing for dps these days. The game is in a decline for sure, it’s sad. I’m open to any suggestions for a new fun game to play (pvp preferably)
if i got a black market box from solo shuffle... id drop everything and do everything i can to main healer in pvp... no questions asked. ill go learn the meta, ill make all the healers max level (except the mail wearers... maybe... if they fix the rating system too...), ill get a sub to razor to get nagas sent to my house every month because ill wear them out too much, ill quit my job. that would be epic. ill install wired internet and get the best internet i can get to play this, ill get a 10k computer, ill download every add-on and weak aura. i dont care... what ever it takes to get that box
This is a problem in pve too. There's just too much to know, too much going on and its simply not fun. The game needs a huge, unapologetic and extreme reset.
Make a mode for 3v3 and 2v2 solo shuffle for dps only, so people just don’t full send dive in knowing they will have heals when they blow their loads and actually have to play not just spam buttons
Solo shuffle with DPS only would actually be kinda fun I think. Could make the queues shorter and the matches would most of the time be blitz rounds with full button mash. Probably not very balanced or competitive, but could be a fun-ish way to farm conquest on alts at least, something thats very needed
SS was definitely good thing, because people didnt get to play AT ALL. It makes it fair with giving random players a chance to play together without worrying about synergy. I still don't get why they haven't limited players getting top % rewards in 3s. Nothing better than to compete against R1s with 5 alts of the same class hogging the ladder. SS feels more like a progressive rank system, like BRs or MOBA games where u can either queue with friends or play alone and still get rewarded
they should try different talents for pve and pvp, maybe something like PVP Talents, as PVE talents, for Big AOE, Bursts.. i dont know, something like that!
It's the way the ques are done. It makes sense logically but feels bad. If you look at the mmr at the end of those games where you get 14mmr for 5 wins or lose mmr at 4 wins you will be say 1800 going against a 1500 healer. In solo it will match healers with way diff mmr to speed up ques (it was worse last season it would match 2k healers with 1400 certain hours of the night but they tightened it up a little this season but still a problem) and that's how you end up with these horrible feelings games where you win a lot to get nothing or go 2 wins and lose hundreds of mmr. The game basically thinks as the higher rated healer you should win every game against the lower to justify your rating and you end up in a position where you can only lose with no reward for winning. It's like there is a challenger and defender system or something. The lower is challenging the higher to take their spot on the ladder and as the defender you have nothing to gain and can only lose your position from the match.
@@iffCntoCa Yep I did dps season 1, dps with some healing at the end of season 2, and mostly healing in season 3 because I want to actually play the game. Healing is painful in solo.
They need to streamline how mechanics, abilities and effects are shown to players in order to improve the visual feedback so you can actually tell what is going on, what abilities are cast, etc. without having to rely on addons. I feel like this is the only way the game can be healthy in the long run, both for PvP and PvE. Things need to look more clear and defined, instead of the mess that it is now.
Will never happen until all combat addons are removed
For me personally I quit after 2-3 months due to the lack of progression. I miss the days where you could push higher rating and get rewarded by upgrading your gear.
I used to help a few PvE bro's in PvP, teaching them the mindset and the flow of battle, my higher PvP ilvl would help keep me alive to assist/help them enjoy the game mode. They would get so excited each time we hit a new rating, upgrade that gear, test it out, enjoy the extra dps and survivability.
Now you basically max your conquest each week and log off to play other games. Once you are max conquest there's nothing more to do. You beat the game, wait until next season.
I'm starting to believe removing addons is the only hope for wows future of PVE and PVP
they ruin the game with addon and weakaura then blame blizzard for it ,
game is unplayable withouth weakauras minimun. If they make it base then its alright
That would make the game even harder than it already is for new players.
@@fofolacosa123 it is but weakaura take it to next level, ppl only use them cuz other does, if we are all stuck at same level let's say mythic 25 no one will feel bad about it, weakayra just inflate the mmr bit more
@@hllridr mythic 10 isnt hard for anyone but if new player aim to hight keys sure it's pain without weakaura, but we only push 25 cuz other are doign 30 if we remove weakaura and some addon both pro and low will drop some key and no one will feel bad about it, it's just inflation
belluar doesn't even know how many rounds and how long solo shuffle is 😂.
Ye he said you can do m+ run as you do 3 arenas of 3v3 ...
Because he doesn't PvP.
Then maybe he should stfu about pvp lol
Bellular video is the telephone game. And the more he shares there’s the information gets. But he’s focused on lore the most. Always has. Not so much as a deep understanding of pve or pvp. Just the surface stuff.
he didnt even know how many people are in a lobby and that blew my mind.
It also comes down to the core mechanics of WoW + power creep, for example: tracking buffs/debuffs is very hard now, every class has so many passives that clutter up the UI. In a game like GW2, they merge all debuffs to non-class specific icons, so you can very easily tell you are dotted or cc'ed.
I started playing WoW solo in WoD before mythic plus. When I got to max level I did a little bit of LFR and farming mounts, then noticed the PvP gear was better than the LFR gear so I started doing random battle grounds like crack. Then I found out I needed to do arena to get the dope purple gear. I then turned into a full time PvP player watching people like xaryu and even you in the soda poppin tournament. Once I got my full purple PvP set in WoD I camped outside orgrimmar and absolutely destroyed in random battle grounds. Never got higher than 1700 rating but I had so much fun and the only add on I used was gladius. Once legion came out and the gear got so fucking complicated with artifact power and other things I had to give it up. I liked just getting my purple gear and being on the same level gear wise as all other PvPers.
Im a 15 Year long Player 2x R1 4x Glad i stopped with Legion aswell Warrior was Dogshit Playstyle was Dogshit Rotations felt bad and way to much Shit all those Legendarys yeah i totaly feel you it was horrible to play..
@@Herogames2022 yeah just getting arena currency and buying the pieces after gettting like 4-5 wins felt so much better than having to go do artifact power and legendaries
i came back to wow and i tried heal in arena and thats so hard now and annoying dps are doing so much like its look they are bursting every 30s and my mana going down so fast soo how to deal with that, i think only healer that already playing wow for the last 3-4 years can deal with that but for new its so hard
Only Xaryu could fix retail 🙏
I watch Xaryu, he doesn't even have a answer for it. His solution is to make Plunderstorm it's own game as free to play with cosmetics like LOL. Because retail pvp is dying off and nobody new likes that game mode and the current player base is dying.
Rofl no way you guys trolling on this man’s content with that after he complimented ya’ll after dissing Bellular or whatever that PvE content creators name is 💀
@@Kanoogsadly Xaryu sounded desperate then . He’s not realizing plunderstorm is just a scuffed battle Royal , and that ship has sailed 3-4 years ago .
@@Kanoog Wrong, Xaryu's answer is that PvP and PvE need to be balanced separately like it used to but it's too far gone at this point and the game would need a complete overhaul.
@@Kanoog nah what he said was PVP needs to be a separate free to play client with less abilities to be able to draw in and retain new players. Absolutely no one is paying $15 grinding to end game and gearing up pvp wise to try pvp for the first time. f2p mode with cosmetic rewards would be totally different.
i can confirm, i had my rsham and rdruid to 2400 in solo shuffle two seasons in Dragon Flight, it was a nightmare 90% of the time with how raiting works. It was so annoying that i quit playing WoW all together, so i am 1 less active healer because of the raiting system.
I quit after aug was introduced. They already made ret broken 10.0.7 and now 10.1.5 they repeat the same thing and add a busted class. Im sure another rework will come that dominates too and im glad i wont play it
@@Haonnn aug is actual dogshit in pvp what are you on about
@@GoBlueHTB not back then do you only live in the moment?
@@Haonnn Aug was never "busted" in PvP. It was broken in PvE for a while, but not PvP. It was strong in certain 3s comps, but not OP. It was mid in shuffs, and completely unplayable in 2s. By the end of July 2023 (the month that Aug came out), there were only 2 Augmentation Evokers and 3 Retribution Paladins in the top 50 on the 3v3 ladder. They were worse in 2v2. Druids, shamans, and mages dominated the DPS meta at the time, not paladins or evokers.
As a new player as of 2024 I really needed this video! I have so many issues both with the game and with mechanics that should be able to have been fixed over the years..
I asked my cousin who works on quest design at Blizz what’s been going on with PvP and he said they shifted their design focus to PvE awhile ago. Class toolkits are created and balanced with static PvE encounter, and new content and systems are from a raid/mythic+/open world/delve perspective. They basically stopped asking “how will this function in PvP” and they now tweak things retroactively.
They wanted to overhaul some PvP features in Shadowlands but apparently COVID and the lawsuit threw a wrench in a lot of those plans and now the project has been in limbo ever since. They’re often under tight time and money constraints so by the time they reach PvP there’s little dev time or resources left to work on it.
This actually makes a lot of sense. Was there any indication from your cousin as to any possibility of the development team eventually looking more into PvP? Or are they not losing enough subs to care about it, ever?
@@aaronhazelwood6110 Well from what I gathered he said Brian Holinka was the big PvP Guy in the office but he left and was replaced by a guy whose main focus has been the new Delve and Follower Dungeon encounters.
I’m hoping that maybe with the success of Plunderstorm, perhaps they bring on another PvP dev to pick up where Holinka left off.
wdym "now"? i've played this game since TBC and it has always worked like this.
@@Solaxer At this rate, just hire someone whose sole focus is pvp. Maybe 2. Hell they acquired an entire company. They have the people to do it.
its known thing they do stuff always around pve..its main thing of WoW
Thing is, majority of the WOW community only plays PVE and complain about everything related to PVP content.
Ive been saying this for a while. To fix the Solo Shuffle queue problem blizzard needs to make it so if you sit in a queue for more than 3 mins a prompt will allow you to choose if you want to queue with AI healers or not. If to choose yes, if will put you in a lobby with 3 other real DPS and 2 AI healers similar to comp stomp(maybe make them slightly smarter). Since both healers will be AI, the teams will be on equal footing regardless of rating and this technology already exists in the game so it wouldnt be that hard to implement. Then you would never need to wait more than 3 mins for a queue, and if you hate playing with AI healers, choose no and wait the normal queue time.
"Mom turn that off" almost did a spit take!!!!!!
:)
Lmao
If someone only has say 2-3 hours at night to play and they wanna pvp, it really kills the mood sitting in SS que for long periods. We wanna be able to play when we have time, and feel rewarded for it. That can't be a thing in SS if 70% of your 2-3 you have to play at night is spent sitting in SS que. Why would bother, you can accomplish more doing PVE. Players need to feel rewarded for the time they are putting into their characters. If blizzard can make pvp feel rewarding again and not so much time wasted on being in q, i think they would be on a good path to improving pvp.
They want you to waste your life and money playing their game with nothing to show for it. 5 more months to grind the same pvp transmogs we just got.
You only have 2 hours of free time and you want to spend it playing wow? 😂
@@morganfreeman5260 I'd rather spend it playing WoW than being a condescending jackass like you. It's my life, my time, I'll use it how I see fit.
arena has always been incredibly difficult to watch and grasp. There's so much shit going on the screen ever since it was released that it's hard to keep up. Only the top of arena players can watch these matches and truly understand what's going on.
Buff mmr in shuffle by about 300, put glad mount in shuffle, having no worth while rewards past 2100 is the main issue
boom shuffle would have fucking insane participation and Q would be popping
Yeah glad mount from shuffle would be cool, but too bad the sweaty ass neckbeards who eat sleep and breathe rated arena would lose their minds.
ROFL the head shake at Absterge dying in war fear as you mouse over his link CD 🤣💀
Isnt one of the pikaboo vod montages no longer on youtube? where is it available it had great music lol
love this take... cant believe xaryu was baited into "yeah these guys who dont pvp know it all, and oh yeah plunderstorm is the future"....
it would be nice if they made expansion rewards (like a battlepass almost) for PvP. The fact we still have rewards from Legion is saying a lot. They could also make Soloque/ duo battlegrounds which would be great. the fact you can get all your base gear in 5 hours says a lot too. I don't play a lot of Arena but for randoms/ battlegrounds this is what i would like
if they made certain abilities only usable in certain instances it could be a solution. or having decreased effects in pvp or longer cooldowns
23:23
Hey thats me!
i will sign under solo shuffle is bad because of healers. due to my IRL work i have limited time to play, so i mostly play classes with healing spec, for insta queues and insta invites. season 3, i played almost every healer (off season at work). my highest healer is 1650 or so. resto druid, the most OP healer, i can't get out of 1400. yeah i no pika or anything, but solid 1800-1900 player. i went to do 2s with my friend, who also has busy schedule. we went fury warrior and resto shaman. resto shaman that is most bloated class in game, requiring you to be a piano player and fury war being one of weakest melee for arena. we got to 1890. with MMR at 2k. we got it in 2 nights. with all my healers in Solo shuffle, im about 3000 games for the season combined. evoker, paladin, shaman, priest, monk, resto druid. i 100% agree, that SS is fking healers. another problem with pvp, is that rewards technically end at 1800, there is nothing at 1900, nothing at 2000, nothing after 2100 unless you do 3s for glad mount. there have to be rewards every 100 rating and, smaller incentives every 50 rating. on top of it. it should give a rating protection. let's say you hit 50 rating mark, for next game if you end up losing, you dont lose mmr nor rating, but only for 1 game. if you drop 50, than go back up 50, you get that 1 game protected again.
What expansion it was with gearing system at the beginning 0:46
Shadowlands
as a pve player some of the button/ability bloat feels bad even there...
aditionally with age comes less time to play, and once u cant get the rewards you want after spending 2 hours ingame, of course you avoid that type of gameplay.
i havent touched pvp since season 1 dragonflight outdoor wq - killing your own faction was actualy fun in those world quests, getting 10 kills with that set made u a GOD. :)
raid takes a lot more coordination and time than a m+ and, except of fated shadowlands raids, i havent done any since 2016 blackrock raid...
that being said m+ ofers the best weekly progression over the season with minimal participation. i hope they wont nerf that cuz i will be left with nothing to enjoy ingame an just cancel sub.
I have stopped after reaching duelist with 3 charakters. I can play like 5 hours a week and dont have the time to improve more to win against r1 players
@25:45 THIS. That is exactly what the problem is. Incentives will help and I completely agree with them, but ultimately your rating gain/loss is totally different as a healer because you're basically playing against 1 other person. If you go 3-3 as a healer, you should be getting 50-75 rating gain MINIMUM, at least within the current system. There's a ton of lobbies where a single DPS either carries or tanks the entire lobby and it's insanely frustrating as a healer to have that happen over and over again, causing you to be stuck in the mud.
This has to be such a cope take with a second of thought tops
@@maarten0123456789 feel like this was supposed to be a dig, although I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. Maybe try again.
@@AkConnerman why do you want to get rewarded for not being able to gap the enemy healer and make a difference? 3-3 means 0 rating, you were just as bad/good as your counterpart, simple, and unable to make a proper impact
@@maarten0123456789 point I was making is that it's super common for one of the DPS to be far worse than the rest and they go 0-6, or one of the DPS does 6-0, and then you end up 3-3 as the healer and are stuck in the mud. Even going 4-2 barely rewards any rating gain typically, which feels frustrating regardless of what role you are and I think speaks to how broken the MMR system is. What you're saying also makes sense because my solution sounds like a participation trophy and I get that, but I think the community as a whole is trying to think of ways to fix solo shuffle queue times and the main issue is healer retention. If you feel like you're constantly being trolled then you're just going to stop playing it altogether, which included myself. Essentially I would argue for giving healers a handicap as an incentive to play more, as well as other incentives such as cosmetic rewards. Just brainstorming, but any fix would be better than what's currently there. Keep in mind those are solutions I'd propose within the current MMR system, but I think most people would agree that the best first step would be to overhaul that entirely and then look at things such as incentives if it's still needed.
Make all have the same ilvl in pvp..
Only cosmetic from new gear.
They have done this, people stop playing
@@Da5kone001I think the new pvp Ilvl system is perfect tbh. That’s not why people stoped playing
@@Dr_Infantry i dont think you read the comment i replied to
@@Da5kone001 They did it the worst possible way, static gear with static stats. So if everyone gets the same stats ye people hate it cus some classes dont need the stat they get. Make it templates you can customize. Say you go to the current conquest vendor, say "those shoulders, that weapon, those rings" etc etc and thats your loadout that you get in instanced pvp. Would make it possible for people to play alts and lower the barrier of entry for returning / new players
@@konsmiddel so the current system after 3-4 weeks is exactly what you want? All stats customizable it takes a day to gear a toon for pvp currently especially with brawl queues being quick and giving conq/vault cap (you have full honor gear and can compete full conq gear takes a few play sessions)
I think everyone should be rewarded in shuffle based on contributions not always a win. I stopped playing cause I could be killing it but still lose cause of how the rounds worked so then it was an hour worth of my time for 25 honor... But if I could even earn some conquest on a loss it would be a lot easier for more casual pvp players to get into it.
I used to PvP hard but now I am old and mostly run keys with my limited time and looking for groups for arena sucks I play alone so no friends either which also makes it hard and if I spend my time on solo shuffle and have little to no wins then I can't progress so I just gave up on pvp entirely and I miss it so much.
They should make pvp different "game"...like only pvp items, no tier sets, you can choose stats so everyone can have bis gear, no addons, different talent trees for pvp and just pure blast..they also should be less mmr and rating gain..like win +2, lose -1 so mmr and rating has to be closer for all. And in shuffle it has ot be more wins +2, less wins -1..3-3..+0 or +1 idk
Exactly. PVP talents similar to MOP where classes have to choose which CC they want instead of getting all CC they're class has to offer all at once.
That was BFA or WOD
ill die on this hill. make every healer broken af. i remember them nerfing hpal in season 2 cause it was one of the best healers and thinking "why not buff the others to match this?"
Games can potentially last a longggg time tho. Middle ground is good. Everything great is better than everything busted or some busted
That's how they made tanks more popular in pve. Tanks do a ton of damage, have a ton of control, they basically carry the group.
I think they just need to make some attracting reward for PvP , give more points to a healer( give them CR for a 3-3) and then ur good, game will feel more alive PvP side .. it really isn’t hard of a fix or at least to try it out … they should go crazy for season 4 and try things out
They already made abilities work different in PvP and used templates so gear doesn't matter, two big this to balance classes. They just need to commit more to tuning, they have tools to do that won't affect PvE side even. But yes, certain bloat on top of CC issue and addons need work. Arena games should not last more then like 7min or so, CC, absorbs, instant casts need to be kept in control and they definitely need have a deep look at how addons affect the modern game. Because, they can easily implement some things that addons cover without WA like nonsense, thus making cleaner UI and same for all.
20:40 They're trialling Plunderstorm, it's fun and simple. Within simplicity, complexity can be found.
That being said.
Make PVP free and standalone to WOW.
Reduce buttons down to 10 max buttons (or less), allow for easy transition to console for more players.
Allow solo shuffle for 2v2 dps and keep the current 3v3 2dps & 1 healer.
No addons, but allow customisation of showing buffs / debuffs on players.
No gear grind, just choose a class and queue.
Talents like diablo 3, where it's just simple to quickly customise your loadout. E.g More damage for Arcane Barrage or add a dot to it instead, or gives you a speed run boost.
Shop for customisation, mounts and pets.
Wow players can customise their character with their current transmogs from the game and may incentivise the free players to join WOW and farm these cosmetics, mounts and pets.
i dont understand why so many multi r1 3k xp is at 2.2k rating how i suposed to push glad...
Amen i hope they listen to you! I love to heal and I have been screaming since solo shuffle came up that the 3-3 result match for healer feels so bad. I sweat like a mother f* just to get a 3-3 and as a result I get punished with very little points or 0 and all the DPS happy getting much more points than me. So unfair!
This was actually a well made video.
returning to game after lots of years, from wotlk period, where i was maxed out in pvp and pve, and right now, i am so confused... stugled to even level up properly with overwhelming quest pop ups, then i was like oh finally i can play some pvp at least, and well yeah, not happening.
pve player here love watching ur video. last time i tried pvp was in shadowland after getting burst within 2 sec by balance druid conkove/ rogue and fire mage for 10 straight game i said fck it bye bye. hopefully i got the courage to try it again someday😅
All of this started in Cata -> MoP. Game became CD spam and low sustained damage outside of them.
Dispel game getting removed and mobility game getting destroyed was just the start.
PVE rotations and damage ramp ups instead of sustained damage makes casters aids, and makes damage multipliers too high.
Holy shit Ed. is Pika a react streamer now? to be fair the reactseption of the last PVP one was pretty good.
Just make it so that if not enough healers, then match 3 dps together against 3 dps. When the search is happening, look for free healers to assign in the comp, if no healers available, catch the dps classes waiting and match them together in a 3v3 and there you go.
You cant link the video in the bio?
Honestly I used to only pvp but since being a dad I only really pled M+ due to severe time cuts. So I saw this a while back and I was soo offended also but I am not new to wow at all and have played since nearly the beginning but I have a lot more time so I thought I would drop pve and get back into pvp and boy did that change my tune. I know it's the end of an expansion but I figured with the closeish gap between honor and conquest and solo shuffle being a thing and since I have no friends I thought I'd give it a whirl. The power level while better is so noticeable and bliz does nothing to change it. At a point in the season the conquest gate is just stupid. I may get flamed for this but idgaf, I am so less geared then everyone else who is a pvper trying out specs and it's noticeable the conquest gear should have a reduced price or gains increased as seasons go on. Like most people I find the most fun when I am geared not gearing in pvp. I get it early season but the currency transfer is broken and you'd think they'd just add the marks in for honor again but nope so I have to raw gear my toons in honor... Fine then the gains on conquest for a casual sucks in general but easily dooable if you start fresh. There is no easy way into pvp at all at this point and god forbid playing more than 1 class as the next xpack would be out by the time I geared up. My take away is degen to gear or wait until next xpack which really sucks not being able to play really in any capacity... other than bgs. I'm sure I could pug more and take more verbal abuse for being not the best out of the gate and warming up but interactions all change with stats. Pre patch in the very least should have some way to gear up faster imo.
Anyways mindless not thought out rant is over but I guess I will try out some more next month, and for all the others old souls out there going at it solo I wish you good luck!
Main reason - everyone wants to be successful player, what doesnt cross with enjoying
Give all healers a legendary that’s BIS in PVE and can work for their offspec DPS, that can only be obtained in PVP, and queue times will go wayyyy down.
The biggest factor everyone is missing. They’re comparing a $15 monthly subscription plus game purchase vs free games with a purchase. If it even has a purchase. Most of these are being compared to free games.
Why not move the stuns to the "hero" spec that are coming out? That's way you can't have like 4 stuns and hard cc. Also, I think add-ons should go the way of the dodo
I never saw the problem of addons, i downloaded a few useful ones and made sure my ui was kept to a minimum. And everything is fine and not over the top.
Pika said give healers mmr and not make them loose rating and play 0 effect 3:3 games. ppl wouldn’t care for sub par healers, they just want to play the game. I want to add that ppl would not have to wait 40 minutes for a game and loosing would not hurt that much. There we have a solution
I love healing and I don't mind DF healing, but when healing is harder to climb rating than dps, for a challenging, thankless role, you just feel like you're wasting your time. Yeah. They need to massively increase healing rewards. People would play healers for cool rewards.
With the introduction of Plunderstorm, they should make PvP a separate mode, toning classes down, no add-ons, etc. and would allow them to lobby all players in one area.
Ya thatll NEVER happen
For me as a healer the reason I quit playing is rather simple. I got tired of the game punishing me for playing well. If I avoided CC, traded CDs properly, and managed to control damage to keep my allies alive what is my reward? A stacking debuff on my ability to do my job because players that don't know how to shut me down are so bad they need to have my class gutted in order to win. If pvp is suppose to be about skill than there shouldn't be any global nerfs to specific classes like dampening. All dampening does is allow bad DPS to beat good healers and I'm sorry but if with all the CC available in the game you can't score a kill on a healer than you are bad.
If they removed dampening in shuffle I would be spam healing the damn mode on every single healing spec in the damn game but as long as I get punished for being better than DPS than DPS can suffer with freaking 4 hour queue times for all I care.
what about switching the rating system to something similar with mythic + where you don't lose the rating. also, restrict leaving arena especially in solo shuffle and solo rbg. i belive that with a system of rating similar with m+ even if it will restructure rated pvp at a fundamental level .. without the loosing rating part you will absolutely get new blood in the game with a actually real shot of getting the rewards.
Reduce cc heals and defensives. What I mean is if you get a cc you lose a heal or defensive. Make it every spec is unique feral vs boomy let's say. Feral gets defensive and has a heal but almost no cc but boomy has no defense a couple ccs and a heal. Obviously this would mean you would want to party with people that help your short comings. But it makes everyone a little unique. Maybe arcane mage has 4 button rotation with 6 cc options now he is the conductor of the fight helping his team position and fight on there terms. Fire mage is a glass cannon that 6 button rotation with maybe a heal and one cc but if he gets his cast off you are screwed. And then for pve just give tanks and healer more options to protect their team pallys get raid bop that shields 10 people with a bop that lasts 2 secs priest get a shield that pops on 10 people. Shammys get a totem that builds a wall. Let dps be a bit more squishy but thankful to the tank and heals who protect them
i think its salvageable , you give every class a massive overhaul make them feel very unique and give them 10-15 buttons max you give UI a massive overhaul as well and ban addons , give incentives (major better ones than what is currently on retail) for raiding and pvping and that maybe gets you faster queues so players can come in and get that get in and get out type experience wich is much more doable for everyone
amazing content bro keep it up!!
Pvp needs to have it's own 6-7 spells. This separates pvp from pve, makes balancing so much easier, talent tree wont affect pvp, pvp talents can only affect these 6-7 spells, disable addons, add rewards.
25:15 or getting a first time fistweaver on your team the first 3 rounds (lost all 3), then 4th round he swaps to other team, he got destroyed, then left, causing me to lose rating because i went 1-3 when it was going to be a 6-0 0-6 for the healers and 3-3 for all dps, so wack
I noticed as a healer in SS there's one bad player that makes the lobby go 3-3 and I end up receiving 0 mmr. Its not my fault no one can win with that guy on the team. Make that guy lose more mmr and give me and the other healer more mmr so we dont have to play with that guy again.
Sucks they cant phase abilities... Like once your inside the arena or bg. Every single spell you have works differently. If your in a mythic or dungeon or raid. It works different.
Man, here’s a solution I thought of to stop blizzard from ruining pvp arena by catering to mythic plus.
All they have to do is make multiple legendary like items that buff class skills just for pve instances.
That way any class and spec can be viable in pve without classes losing class identity in pvp.
For example a legendary for a sub rogue that makes shuriken storm bounce each hit. Then another one that maybe makes shadowstrike also hit multiple targets, etc etc and let them equip multiple at a time so they can farm these items and customize builds.
This way blizzard doesn’t have to destroy class identity and just let PVErs get items to power their skills instead of giving them all OP identical talents.
i see people with sci fi movie console UI on their screen and it instantly turns me off ever touching it
they have to completely rework pvp from the ground up and disable addons
Pika is right its insane that healers still have a harder time gaining rating than dps. How has it not been fixed to at least be the same at least
The fixes are actually simple...allow only u.i. based add-ons and introduce a max debuff amount which will be displayed over your character...I think a fair number is 4. If more than 4 debuffs are applied to a toon then they just fall off as new ones come...so at no point will a healer will have no more than 4 things to track...Open all transmog as rewards for pvp attainable with points earned in rated pvp. No more gear resets in pvp...ever...for the entire expansion for pvp you should get a set of gear for free...and then you can upgrade it with points attainable by playing rated pvp.
NO MORE SEASONS!!!
And yes pvp and pve should be fully separated. They are two entirely different games and should be treated as such.
the only way to change arena is to completely separate it from the game, completely remove it from wow and add a buton in the character select screen like for plunder storm that puts you in a separate server where everything is gonna be tuned around arena, no more class tuning around pve, gut all classes and make them unique again and completely disable all addons like in plunderstorm, if even then people don't want to play pvp just abandon it, nothing will ever save it
I still play without addons and weakauras. I had no idea people were even using addons and weakauras. It's no wonder people feel like they have superhuman reactions in current retail.
Play fps games at a high level and you'll see actual superhuman reaction times
Im kinda loving these Pika react vids. He actually knows what hes talking about and also is upfront about shjit being shjit
I kind of haven't played WoW since season 1 so it's not my place to talk but wouldn't it make a little sense to give DPS a little toggle to say if they want a healer on their team or not? So all DPS can join in on a no healer queue or wait longer to have a healer on their team. And to make it fair if you choose no healer you only ever match against other teams with no healer
They could rework pvp if they want. Final fantasy did it too. It got way more simple with the 6 or 8 buttons idk + heal and def for everyone. Had lots of fun there with the rework. Definetly way more fun than before with the 30+ spells.
For years I've said that m+ killed PvP - glad to see people are finally catching on.
id love to hear the correlation where u think M+ caused it
@@trebortnulb5279 Class design fundamentally shifted in Legion to accommodate the M+ gameplay loop.
Largely as the Skillcapped video already pointed out. Every spec needed to be a given proper defensive suites and means of on demand burst. Melee were near universally given cleave (oftentimes entirely passively such as in the case of DHs etc) whilst casters were forced into selecting between ST and cleave focus via talents. Melee were also provided additional mobility to maintain uptime between packs.
The result was an arms race of upfront zero counterplay burst windows, hack-and-slash gameplay for melee, and ambient cleave. Created a giga unhealthy design space that left PvP no room to breathe.
No cap WoW is the only game I never got good at because I just couldnt understand what was happening on my screen
Oh it's easy, you just need to keep track if 5-6 cooldowns per character in the arena, and also read and look at all the buff\debuff icons on your characters while making sure to press your buttons on time and positioning yourself correctly 😆 No wonder why we see SAME faces in PvP pro scene for decades - games so complicated its impossible to get into
We can't go back, but we can go forward. Blizz have to keep on trying new things and change things up.
he still got the jellybeans youtube link at end of video
fun video. im blessed to know that Pika is not a robot, nor was he born out of alchemist's vial.
I don't know if you've played Heroes of the Storm but that game is still my favorite MOBA. Every character in that game is oozing with style, unique mechanics and great customization.
I think fixing PVP in WoW requires to make a separate game. It can re-use WoW's assets so progress could carry over, but just like how we access Plunderstorm, we could have a WoW-Arena where you just log in, chose your spec and start blasting. The prior requirements to join regular Arena would be removed, hopefully.
Introduce Solo Shuffle 2s. Doesn't matter if Dps or heals or tank. Just Q the next 2 in line at that rating.
honestly just think most of the resources now at blizzard are just being used for PvE with PvP being the absolute turbo last thing they do, when was the last time PvP was even good ? MoP? WoD? I remember when i came back to the game at the end of BfA S2 and being so confused as to why i had to basically become a PvE'r to play PvP, by the time i had gear to play PvP i just started pve'ing full time since even the systems felt more enjoyable and rewarding that PvP ones
Receiving conquest through bgs has only hurt pvp. Most people play it for their conquest dailies instead of gaining honor. So if it looks like a loss a majority will quit and take a 15 min debuff over playing the game. Gaining conquest from bgs is like an added bonus but it’s only hurting bgs and arena by people avoiding arena at all costs.
Yup make solo shuffle the main playlist and add all the rated rewards in the playlist, glad grand marshal for the upcoming 6v6 solo
I was a die hard fan of pvp in retail and the reason I left and won't return is a: I was so sick to death of fighting dummies for hrs waiting for a game and sometimes it would take so long to get a game the queue would pop right when deciding to go to bed for work then it would repeatedly pop but not actually get me in a game and B: once you take a break for a few weeks returning is absolute hell, I tried and realized I am never going to play retail again. Instead of making these stupid classic versions for people that don't want anything changed and say it's all about the grind they just make a pvp only version
The thing is - there are a lot of different games for PvP players on the market at. In WoW you need to gear, you need to seek teammates yourself sitting in LFG for hours etc. For a new players it's not a gameplay they want, they want to lauch the game, click find game and just play. Plus, arena is boring af for a lot of players. Solo shuffle didn't do anything good for PvP either. Everything you need to do to get into PvP is too clanky.
When they done a level squish they should have done an ability squish as well
the biggest issue for wow pvp will always be barrier to entry...not difficulty...difficult in pvp will always scale....a lobby full of actual 1400 players will same difficulty for them....gearing is the biggest issue...should not be a thing in a pvp game. 2nd biggest issue is addons. Get rid of addons...get rid of gearing.....soloque will pop off.
I was almost 2500 on both windwalkers last season for my first time ever the only addon i use are bigdebuffs and sarena honestly any more than that i feel is distracting
I absolutely hate PVP cause i suck and its frustrating, but I do enjoy watching PvP streamers over Mythic streamers. The atmosphere and Energy is way more exciting.
hear me out, basic talent trees for open world and specific talent tree for pvp (as there is one now, but with bigger options) AND for pve.
I think they should make PvP a seperate launcher like plunder and then make it so addons cant be used. Limit the abilities that can be used. You still get the rewards on the character you want to play but now you can have completely seperate PvP mode.
No
@@Tupac1524 you can say no all you want but right now without changes pvp will just die
Do you guys remember the ret's patch? They just broke the meta with an op rework that lasted an entire month. The balance in the game is slow to a sub game, no wonder why pvp is dead.
Hit the nail on the head, more healers = more games, more games = more fun. I don't want to wait 30 mins+ for a single SS game. I want to play wow, not wait in que playing something else. Anything to reduce the shuffle que time would help immensely
I mean PvP in WoW has literally always been an afterthought. In classic rankings weren’t a thing at launch and it took even longer for the first BG to be introduced. PvP is fun, but it’s the side gamemode in WoW
For me both games are hard to watch pve keys and pvp. to hard to get on them. but is fun for spending some time watching now and then.
As an RBG fan (I'm not a professional player, just a casual one), I can say that RBG for me and my team was killed not by other modes, but by boost packs of players who sell on third-party sites for REAL money (even if just for gold, I still find it disgusting), RBG rating raising services.
They gather in flocks of 8-9 people, take anchors for themselves, and raise his rating.
How does this spoil the game? When you're going to play with friends, you get hit several times by these players, who just destroy you, because your game skill corresponds to a rating of 1400, for example, and the actual rating of these guys is 2500.
When you go to play alone, in some kind of group in search. You often run into these freaks who are already rating characters in order to get other customers. It is clear to everyone that you are already 100% draining your rating, because you have players in your team who came here for this.
These players don't even hesitate to stream their gameplay on twitch. And the developers have not done anything about it...
Just returned for season 4 retail pvp and it’s more waiting than actually playing for dps these days. The game is in a decline for sure, it’s sad. I’m open to any suggestions for a new fun game to play (pvp preferably)
Only a waning minority of people play WoW for PvP anymore and it's been like that for several years. It is mostly a mythic+/raiding game now
if i got a black market box from solo shuffle... id drop everything and do everything i can to main healer in pvp... no questions asked. ill go learn the meta, ill make all the healers max level (except the mail wearers... maybe... if they fix the rating system too...), ill get a sub to razor to get nagas sent to my house every month because ill wear them out too much, ill quit my job. that would be epic. ill install wired internet and get the best internet i can get to play this, ill get a 10k computer, ill download every add-on and weak aura. i dont care... what ever it takes to get that box
This is a problem in pve too. There's just too much to know, too much going on and its simply not fun.
The game needs a huge, unapologetic and extreme reset.
Make a mode for 3v3 and 2v2 solo shuffle for dps only, so people just don’t full send dive in knowing they will have heals when they blow their loads and actually have to play not just spam buttons
Solo shuffle with DPS only would actually be kinda fun I think. Could make the queues shorter and the matches would most of the time be blitz rounds with full button mash. Probably not very balanced or competitive, but could be a fun-ish way to farm conquest on alts at least, something thats very needed
SS was definitely good thing, because people didnt get to play AT ALL. It makes it fair with giving random players a chance to play together without worrying about synergy. I still don't get why they haven't limited players getting top % rewards in 3s. Nothing better than to compete against R1s with 5 alts of the same class hogging the ladder. SS feels more like a progressive rank system, like BRs or MOBA games where u can either queue with friends or play alone and still get rewarded
they should try different talents for pve and pvp, maybe something like PVP Talents, as PVE talents, for Big AOE, Bursts.. i dont know, something like that!
As a healer in solo arena ，I was so pissed when I lose 58 mmr 2-4 and gain 14 mmr 5-1.( in the range of 1800-1900 mmr game)
It's the way the ques are done. It makes sense logically but feels bad. If you look at the mmr at the end of those games where you get 14mmr for 5 wins or lose mmr at 4 wins you will be say 1800 going against a 1500 healer. In solo it will match healers with way diff mmr to speed up ques (it was worse last season it would match 2k healers with 1400 certain hours of the night but they tightened it up a little this season but still a problem) and that's how you end up with these horrible feelings games where you win a lot to get nothing or go 2 wins and lose hundreds of mmr. The game basically thinks as the higher rated healer you should win every game against the lower to justify your rating and you end up in a position where you can only lose with no reward for winning.
It's like there is a challenger and defender system or something. The lower is challenging the higher to take their spot on the ladder and as the defender you have nothing to gain and can only lose your position from the match.
@@stonehallow But healers pay the price for some random shit happened in solo Q
@@iffCntoCa Yep I did dps season 1, dps with some healing at the end of season 2, and mostly healing in season 3 because I want to actually play the game. Healing is painful in solo.
The worst thing as healer is that you gain 0 points when it goes 3/3. That's bullshit