@@Kanoog just need to get some of those running blades, and master that, and spend time constantly keeping up with the newest tech and mastering that. Or you'll fall behind on last years model lol
The thing with addons is they have gotten waaaay out of control. All the weak auras, horns, and shit blairing in ur ear to tell you how to use your abilities is just ridiculous. U can put a blind fold on and play the game...
even the devs don't care for pvp, pvp in wow is for small circle of players who know each others and play with each others. As a new player with no friends in that circle it is basically impossible to reach glad
Bro, I’m absolutely this guy… I literally played against Joefernandes on his Awar, with a multiglad priest at 2k, lost and got duked on during his stream because i “tryharded too much”. This is my experience with my favorite game mode since 15years… all for never being able to get that sweet glad mount that i want, and tryhard for since i’m 10… During prime wow, 2400 was never the peak human performance, awc players ALWAYS was 2k8 to 3k range, why the fuck do i have them ON THEIR MAIN in my games multiple of time during a season it’s insane…
The top 1% of players calling themselves 'average' and Blizzard believing them when they do is what's wrong with WoW.. The ENTIRE game from the ground up is absolutely ridiculously complex in SO MANY boring and needless ways.. Whatever tho.. the community is so full of gatekeeping idiots who circle jerk on Reddit that it isn't even worth trying anymore to get through to them
I liked the game way more without focus and arena1,2,3, because targeting was a skill and you could see what your enemy is doing. We're at a point, where we look more on numbers and addons than the actual game, which is a bad design.
Plus Its impossible to cast shit, people have their macros locked and loaded with their billion addons baby feeding them information on how to play the damn game.
yeah and thats so easy to ban those macros for devs team and addons would become less helpful cause even with red fucking alert people would still need to react and not just press binded kick or stun
MMORPG should never have any instanced rated pvp to begin with because rated pvp requires devs to actually involve a lot of resourses in it. Instead it's better to make pvp MASSIVE, it's massive multiplayer online rpg in the end, let us fight for land and stuff, not for some numbers. It also kind of cures the problem of "I'm trash at the game and I will never have 2400 or glad mount, why would I play it", because in this pvp impact of 1 player will be really small, only coordinators will really decide who will win. WoW is just not that kind of game, a lot of my teammates just started playing other pvp games and they are glad that they're not paying money for bad PvP expirience.
@@poorpriest4549 The solution is called unique instancing arenas. Which they have done to some extent. Gladiator should not be free, it should be percentage based. It used to be the top 3% of players on the ladder, not locked to an arbitrary rating. Turns out being the top 3% is pretty difficult. If you want it for free then yes please by all means find another game and stop ruining this one.
I'm this guy but i can't be bothered pushing higher. Its just not worth the hassle, time, toxicity, etc. It's just not justifiable. Finding 2 other non toxic players that want to game without leaving after 1 loss is near impossible these days.
Dude calls himself casual, has a same team for several seasons, get VoD reviews by a PRO etc. Like delusion off the charts. True "casuals" also known as people who like to mess in PvP from time to time, no longer exist in 2vs2 or 3vs3. There is no point, if are not full on sweat, you will lose like 19 out of 20 matches currently. There is absolutely no casual scene to dip your toes in.
@@Earthfurry717 I think you are failing to even get the word casual. If you got 6 chars over 2100 you are as sweaty as they come. We want participation from weekend warriors, from people who don't know every single offensive and defensive cool down of each spec in game. A fun game for ratings between 1500 and 2100 where it is not a sweaty affair to play.
I've seen people at 1700 in solo Shuffle with x5 more games played than all my characters combined. I can do it in less than 90 minutes of played time. Once I get 2100 I play a new character, I don't push, I don't voice, I don't have a team. I went 35-0 on a character last season...
I just came back to game last season from a 3year break, Holy Paladin was a not so good spec, It was bad in 2s, so once my Paladin gets to 2200, It's basically an uphill battle to win, so I'd prefer to get on a new toon. It's just when my Main gets to the rating where things get tough, I go to another character of the same class, so I can have fun.
I recently came back after 10 years to wow and would keep playing PVP if they would remove addons. Its a hassle for a new player & I am not even new, I used addons back in the day. Think about it: If you join pvp today and play it a couple times, its entirely possible you dont even know about addons OR their importance. Then you just leave because you think you suck and that means no new players. Also screws up the UI and makes the game horrible to watch. Blizz should implement a simple CD tracker and that's it. Same chances for everyone.
tbh it is average if you are actually putting in effort.. you don't need to be amazing to be duelist, but yeah you need to learn the game, specs, classes, etc and what you should be doing strat wise in arena.. if you know those things, and know your rotation, you should be duelist imho..
What is the cause of burnout? Lack of recognition or reward for good work. Unclear or overly demanding job expectations. Working in a chaotic or high-pressure environment. At the very least I think the reward structure needs a complete overhaul. I for one can't wait to step into rated battle ground blitz. To me BGs are way more fun that Arena
There's a lot of barriers to entry (addons, finding teammates, experience, etc), but aside from that, I feel as though a certain "elitist" attitude has pushed a lot of casual arena players away. I'm a really chill player and I retained 2.2k in 2s and 3s for several seasons in the original release of cata to always have the tier 2 weapons. But anytime in recent history that I've wanted to get back into it again, its really hard to find likeminded players to push with. Veteran arena players are super selective for "recent" achievements, and even when I find a group around my rating, we'll play a few games together, then I'll make a mistake as the healer against really good teams, and they'll just disband or kick me without saying anything. For a lot of these issues, I feel as though its "easy" to blame blizzard for poor game design, or for not intervening with community proposed solutions, but the fact that there were eras of success where these systems worked well, tells me the issue isn't the game itself, but rather the player base engaging with the activity.
Blizzard could easily do more for it, but yes, the community is too toxic for 99% of players to bother getting into. Theres a reason SS is the most played rated form of pvp, and its because you can just que, mute chat, and just play 6 rounds and gain rating and still get rewards. Not sure why your able to get literally every other reward but the glad mount, but whatever blizz.
I ended season 1 at 2150 or something close to it. I just resubbed, and after gearing in the honor gear we decided to queue 3s. My FIRST GAME at 0cr was against smexxin and vanguard... so i felt that mmr rant 😅
at 1800 I'm always going against grads, rolling in on a glad mount and just countering everything perfectly. When we play against real 1800 it's always so much more fun
That's why I miss BC / Wrath, when you hit a rating of 1850, 2150, 2400 everybody in those brackets felt like they should be in those brackets and a fresh 1500 team felt like a fresh team. Now it's ALL over the place, I would play a game at 1800 and do really well for a win. Next game it's like instant loss and I would get pulled from stealth as a Druid during the opener from across the room. Botting is a bitch.
@@Jay-jayy-n9u its more fun to play against people with equal skill then against people who has played this game for 15 fucking years. U cant learn shit being punching bag
@@bmw9616there’s little to no luck involved. you don’t need the addons to track cds. I have one but I rarely look at it. You can see when a priest uses guardian spirit, a shaman uses spirit link or a dh uses darkness. You can see when a hunter turtles or a pally bubbles. And if you’re any good, with or without the addon you’ll get the kill before those cds come back. Banning a cd tracking addon wouldn’t even anything out as the best players don’t need it.
Solo shuffle is the future of rated pvp its as simple as that, LFG is nothing but a shitshow of people claiming to be 2400+ exp at 1.4-1.7k CR and only wanting meta comps and asoon as they loose once they disband. And thats not even mentioning the mutli rank 1 / glads / streamers smurfing in 1.4k-1.6k bracket. Where's solo shuffle dosnt matter what class/comp you are your going to get a game it may take awhile for queue times as dps but your 100% going to get 6 rounds. They honestly need to move glad rewards and title to Solo Shuffle its the mode the vast majourity of the community wants and plays, Rated 3's is a relic of the past that only the top 0.1% plays and cares about.
@@MuDkipzCHancelLOr if nobody liked shuffle, it wouldn't be the most played form of rated pvp by an absolute landslide. have you seen the numbers? this guys comment is correct.
I 100% agree with that. Solo shuffle should be the main pvp ladder, so everyone can try his best to get glad by himself. No hours of searching people that disband after 1-2 loses.. lets hope for the best guys🙏🏼
The r1s at 2100 is real bro last season I didn’t even get duelist and every second team I played had a glad or R1. Like it feels so bad to get placed against these dudes, I finished at 2067. I’m hoping it will be easy street in solo RBGs in s1 war within
I’m this guy too. I’ve been playing arena a lot longer tho (WOD when I starting taking it seriously). Im to the point now where I get duelist and quit util the next season. Been do this since S1 SL
For a casual relatively unskilled player the biggest problem is bad matchmaking. Even at low ratings our team regularly encounters people who have well over 2k xp. Newbies and old casual nerds with deteriorating eyesight have zero chance against such experienced opponents. A similar system works well for chess tournaments. If you play against someone with a 1600 Elo rating, that's probably close to their true maximal skill level. In WoW, you get far too often impossibly skilled opponents even at a 1600 rating. New players need to be more than a little crazy to keep playing after getting repeatedly brutalized in such imbalanced matchups.
My 2 cents. I too started caring about pvp in SL S1 when I saw the plate set for my ret (been ret since vanilla). Led my own RBG groups to above 2500, I actually would have had Hero that season but I was trolled to going Horde from a guy I liked playing with in my pugs, didn't know about the whole have to win 5 more games so FUCK that got pissed and didn't care. I still like Grand Marshal more though. I now just play shuffle if I like the set or enchant, I'm a duelist now and I only play with 2 addons. In s3 though I was seriously stuck just below 2.1 in the first two weeks and couldn't for the life of me get passed it and had no idea why (for clarification, I am good at Arena, I'm just not a r1 who reads every cd being used and trades perfectly based on team cds you know, like I know I'm certainly duelist lol) I think they should make the ratings have a cap on people based on how many have played arena games. Like if 10k people have played an arena game, the top .1% has their ranks, below that it's just Elite/Duelist/Rival/Challenger/Combatant/Unranked. Play 10 games and it will put you into the correct tier based on the current MMR system so they dont have to scrap the whole thing. To progress in a league, you just get wins. Not MMR based, but win based. Losses count only a little if you're below Rival, but have more of an impact on your progress if you lose in higher ranks. (Imagine a progress bar at Duelist, 1 win = 5% to elite, 1 loss = -2% whereas combatant a loss doesn't have an impact, but for challenger it would be -.5%). This does incentivize people to keep playing at their lower ranks if they don't know what they're doing or how arena works exactly yet, but with little punishment and they can feel rewarded for getting the set. The sets at 1800 are already easy to obtain, but they need to add more people to the pool. You already can't really speak in Shuffle without some cunt reporting you for saying "Swap bro" and getting a chat warning. People can be elitist if they want to be but it harms the pvp playerbase, the solution is to just get EVERYONE TO PVP so those douches can start teaching and hopefully understand their insults are only harming the game, not helping.
Rewards need to go back to being percentage based. It can never go wrong with a percentage because it doesn't matter if you are 2000 rated or 50000 rated you are still top 5%, top1% or whatever. One of the biggest mistakes they did is the Gladiator requirement rework. As someone that had played WoW in the early expansions I don't ever recall rating inflation/deflation being an issue, ever. If they can't seem to find a way to make rating similar from season to season then I think percentages are the only solution. Heavily inflated seasons like SL S2 or DF S1 shuffle cause more problems than they solve, because people get ratings they do not deserve to get then when it all goes back to normal they blame the system, when the ACTUAL mistake of the system was giving them those ratings in the first place.
@@compaqpunch10 Good attempt at irony my friend, but giving people more rewards and inflating the numbers are two different things. They can add more rewards for each skill bracket without gifting everyone rating.
I'm glad someone else mentioned the editing, there was a time I thought he was just recording his screen from his phone 😂 I felt like I was sea sick from all the rocking
What I dislike when I queue Solo Shuffle on a fresh toon with no Mmr or Soft Reset Mmr from the previous season is that I start at 1550mmr, and then I go 3-3 and lose 100Mmr, regardless of my skill level, It's hard to go better than 3-3 as a healer in the 1500 bracket. It doesn't matter too much because I can eventually get out of the ditch but It's just annoying. 5/11/24 Edit: I did some Solo Shuffles on another new Healer. In a 1800Mmr game there was a Spriest who was 100% a lost cause, I played very very well. The priest was bound to go 0-6 but I pulled out a win with her and almost won the other 2 loses but it was an incredible uphill battle. This person was a straight NPC. I went 4-2 and lost 100MMR 1800 to 1700. (Was actually over 100) I'm not stuck here and can push miles ahead of the rating but that fact that 15minutes of my time was wasted and my Mmr took a hit after I played phenomenal AND I won the lobby is infuriating. 5/11/24 Edit: Hunter intentionally throws last round because he's upset I go 5-1 and gain 30mmr. Can't wait until I get to the wintrading bracket. Going to be fun...
Brother I logged my mistweaver which I haven’t played since wod and started solo shuffle at 2200 mmr…. The real issue is mmr, I had to afk to drop and people spam reported me and shit talk me now I’m suspended ….
@@itsbalang1659 That's what I'm saying, Mmr seems screwy. Idk how you started at 2200, I came back from Bfa and every one of my characters started 1500.
@@Earthfurry717 I think the mmr doesn’t reset for old characters somehow say I was 2.2 mmr in wod it stays the same … and now I’m also trying to appeal to blizzard bot ai which constantly repeats that I broke tos… I’m no streamer so no one cares
sorry man i'm going to have to disagree. I boosted a 70 shaman, have never healed before, and am constantly going 4-2 to 1-5. The problem is it takes FOREVER FOR YOUR MMR TO MOVE ON HEALER
@@zomgbbqsauce12345 It's RNG at a low rating, sometimes my new healer gets 6-0 other times 5-1 4-2 3-3, Sometimes there's just that 1 Dps that is unsalvageable and you're bound to go 3-3, making you lose MMR if it's your first game. Typically I go 3-3 or 6-0 in those games.
Many players can’t even fulfill the seasonal mount requirement @ 100% for games played above 1k rating. I’m a duelist level player in an AOTC/semi mythic raiding guild and for them 1600 rating is unobtainable so they don’t even bother with ranked PvP. PvP rewards are not obtainable for casual players.. Hell, even if they dropped the requirement for the gladiator mount to 1800 rating, 90% of the player base still will not be able to obtain it.
The problem is the match making 1000% I just started doing arenas this season at 0 rating going against people who are 1500+ like wtf is that. How is my team average rating at 1493 when we’ve never played ? lol
As a long time raider and wow enjoyer (15+ years) I have wanted to get back into pvp and arenas for a very long time, but when I try it it's just way too overwhelming. I remember doing casual arenas in tbc/wotlk/cata and having a pretty good time but nowadays it's just way too sweaty to get anywhere so I don't even bother anymore. Got to 2k in I think S2 of shadowlands but didn't touch pvp at all ever since.
I think.. there shouldn’t be any rating loss from 0-2000 rating. Gives everyone the chance to get the elite set and makes it more approachable for everyone. From 2000-2399 you will lose rating but a maybe not to aggressive but not to lenient either. 2400 + 50 wins should be the most difficult part b/c of the glad title and mnt rewards. Then anywhere between 2500-3200 ( or lower ) should be a hard climb b/c of the rank 1 titles.
I think every competitive game mode needs to shift its reward structure to simply reward time. Keep R1 titles, but decouple every other reward from rating and put it in a renown track. Every modern shooter does this with their battle passes. Then the only thing blizzard needs to make sure is that the time investment required to max renown respects the players time. Now you have more new players; queue times go down, more games played, more enjoying arenas!
It might be because at the higher brackets, there is a smaller community and they are all improving along side each other. It’s like moving faster in a car but the car next to you is matching your speed, it makes your speed feel less.
Im having trouble even getting to 1600 on my ret currently ( was 1850 last season). Yes I know its probably a skill issue but I do feel like the competition is just so steep it would be nice to go up against other normal pvp players who aren't gods.
For me, the trouble is having the time to grind for gear to even have a chance at being competitive now. My loot drop RNG is absolute ass, so gearing is next to impossible for me. I “yolo” RBGd in MoP up to like 1850 and got an achievement in Shadowlands for being in the top 30% of pvpers (maybe not a huge accomplishment for most, but as a casual player I felt awesome about earning that as a solo player) because gear was much easier to obtain and to feel competitive. Made the pvp feel like it was a lot more fun too. I don’t have hours and hours to grind out M+ and raid when people won’t take “new raiders” that haven’t dipped their feet into current raids.
If you need a addon to tell you what's on Dr then you don't need to pvp you are legit letting a addon telling you when to press a button it's sad and you're apart of the problem! Might as well not even play the game if you can't do it without something assisting you!
@@Memoop-iz6vk having a DR tracker is a lot different than all the other addons and weak auras people use, please only gods can get to glad with no addons, and never DR anything if you’re so good at counting the tracker in your head
@@derkaman123123 again it's legit easy to keep track of if u need a addon to tell you when to clone or morph again it falls inline with everything else you mentioned you're using add-ons to simplify and play the game for you without human error! Again if you need a add-on to tell you when to press a button you don't need to play! If they got rid of every add-on in the game 75% of the pvp players wouldn't even reach 1800 it's hilarious how much you all are relying on stuff just to press buttons lol
@@derkaman123123 It's still telling you when to hit a button lol! If they took add-ons away legit 75% of you all wouldn't get 1800! It's not hard to keep track of you're having a bot tell you when to hit a cc 😂
Also 2vs2 and 3vs3 ratings should be Warbond level. I think there is like 200 people constantly making alts and pushing rating which is destoying the ledder for everyone else.
There isnt really a fixed value of rating what constitutes a good player. During highly populated seasons the ratings are higher, during lower populated seasons the ratings are lower. However the 2400 bar remains the same. Now obviously this was designed as a sort of minimum threshold while still not limitting the amount of players that could reach it. It was a much better solution than saying "anyone higher than 90th percentile will be glad". However the 2400 bar being this hardfixed and immobile is a problem now that the player numbers are this low. I dont have a formula to fix this exactly, however I see this as a massive design problem in terms of the ladder system.
My number one problem with PvP for YEARS is being rewarded with high ilevel gear the higher your rating gets. What if you just enjoy solo battlegrounds? Sucks being a casual gamer lmao
@jugadorcastriot7796 yeah but don't you have to hit different brackets of higher and higher rating to unlock higher ilevel upgrades for gear? Or did they get rid of that?
@@jasonhendricks4562you talking your vault reward? Yea if you hit 1800 rating the vault reward will be a 502ilvl piece that scales to 528 ilvl in pvp content. All conquest gear scales to 528 ilvl in pvp content regardless of if it starts at 493 or 502 or 515 or any other ilvl.. doesn’t matter.
really good video its a boost for pvp community completly destroy by retails. guys wake up the wow pvp is the reel reason why people continu to log in after 10 years , btw really nice video for the community thank youtube m8
Thing about stuff like weak auras is that track peoples abilities is that you can't fix it, even if you remove addons people will just write hacks that do the same and there is no way that you can know if someone is running this unless you go on a local lan tournament. Yeah, the rating system is kind of broken, people that are 3k rated shouldn't play with 1800 at all, even if you're on a low ilvl character, you shouldn't be paired with people that aren't on your skill level, i remember the first time i was trying to break 2400, it felt impossible it took me almost two years to break duelist, it wasn't a pleasant experience at all, and if i have to do it all over again with the current state in the game, i would probably just quite and not bother at all, it's not like there is any reward expect a title and a mount after duelist, least back in the days gear actually mattered and there was an incentive to break the 2400 mark. By the way class balance is fine, malees just stomp casters like flies all over the place. Nothing unbalanced here folks, just a regular demon hunter with 500 micro stuns, 25 charges, 25 leaps, a bubble.
Two years to get out of duelist, man this games pvp is not worth anywhere close to that time investment, it’s a completely abandoned mode, in bfa and SL there was under 3 people TOTAL working on ALL pvp content, at one point there was one dude…. ONE. 😅
I didnt know how modded the game was until watching some streamers. At first even thought the first one was disabled, because the addon was saying the name of the spells and status effects, but then realised it was not the case.
After playing dragonflight since season 1, I've slowly just lost interest in trying to push. I'm not some crazy multiglad or anything, but I've been up there and even got gladiator once. Season 1 I managed to get 2600 on Elemental, 2500 on Enhance, and 2100 on Resto in SS. Season 2 I didn't bother with Enhance, or resto because of the slow decline but I was literally 1 point away from 2400 as Ele and tanked 100 points and just started a back and forth in rating. After that I just started to lose interest in even trying, it feels so bad managing to get between 2500 - 2600 on 2 specs just to be hardstuck 2300 on 1 spec the season after. Season 3 I only hit 2100 for the enchant and quit playing because i felt i couldn't hit 2400 even if i tried. Now in season 4 i haven't even logged on to try and probably won't play until TWW pre-patch at the soonest
@andmat3297 well S2 shadowlands was the most inflated season ever of WoW lol. More people have that glad than any other glad mount, except maybe S4 bfa.
Dude, let's be honest.. the amount of keybinds needed is absolutely ridiculous. I was multi-glad back in the day, and I got the arena itch recently after not playing for years and boosted a priest, got on, started putting my skills on my action bars and getting my bindings set up, and I was like... fuck this, this is absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe I even did it in the past.
As a casual pvper I tried to get into rated. I tried find people willing to join me in communities. All I found after days of searching was people willing to tag along in 1 BG before quiting. The casuals are willing to get more serious, but the community is unwilling to give the opporitunity because they are pushing difficulty. As a casual player I can't even find a group of casual players that want to try to take it up a level.
I 6-0 a 2k game on hpal.. then 2 games later I'm like 1820. Solo is absurdly stupid. As far as regular 3's.. same problem it's always had. The same 50 top players farming week one and then sitting on their rating all season gating people at duelist with 3 alts of the same class. Which venruki and every other r1 with a platform knows, but will never say. But, that's the least of the issues with the ranking system. The actual solution to saving 3's in this game is to make solo unranked, period. And make pvp titles percentage based, like they used to be. Let's see if the devs will ever come to this glaringly apparent and simple solution. My bets are on no. Games dead if the current devs don't change their aim for the game and stop incessantly catering to casuals who want free shit. Solo and arbitrarily rating locked titles has made ranks completely meaningless. For what purpose..? So that casuals who should be hard stuck 1600 can now be hard stuck 2k.
As RET, I absolutely HATE having to use Arena1,2,3 & Part1,2,3 binds. Honestly, after years of playing and never finding consistent teammates and growing/improving together, I realized that I'll never hit Glad, even if all of the top players suddenly disappeared. While it's great to always want to improve and to have goals, I think that some of us need to be realistic with our expectations of ourselves and recognize that maybe our ceiling isn't as high as we'd like it to be. I think at that point, you'll enjoy the game a lot more.
his story is literally my story got my first 1900 in SL season 1 for the plate set decided i really wanted to push in DF with the boys and we made it to 2175 and hard walled it was extremely demoralizing with how much we swapped things up and improved and still felt like we couldnt get over the hump
with the shuffle mounts coming out i cant see 3's getting more popular, i que for shuffle and sit in lfg as a dps. i get a shuffle que pop before i get invited to a group in lfg, i have 2k xp in both 2's and 3's but cant even get into 0 cr groups, this game cannot stay focused on premade ladders, solo q feels like the only way new players will play the game, i cannot imagine being a new player trying to get into a lfg group with 0 xp.
Hard part there is a new player has to level all the way up/then gear/ then sit half hour to hour q or lfg hunt as well. So much time people get easily distracted or bored and give up/ go to pve side.
I have to agreed about the rework for reward structure. Nobody looks forward to getting the first glad mount or attempting to. You go versus multi rank 1 gladiators and even blizz con competitors. Very sweaty games and a hard wall to get over.
Maybe it's just because I've been a dedicated PVE'er for 15+ years now and only ever dipped my toes into pvp when there's been something relevant for me, like gearing being shit in early shadowlands or needing to get 2400 rating to get the Azeroth's champion title, but I genuinely feel like you and this guy are missing an entire segment of issues, at least from how I understand you. Now I've played this game long enough to know every class, from a PVE perspective, relatively well. I feel comfortable saying, "name the class I'll tell you when and how it does damage". Except... that doesn't appear true at all in pvp. Sure when you watch the pros play, but for me and many people I've spoken to it's an immediate turn off. Getting caught off-guard because damage is such a difficult concept to wrap your head around in pvp just feels frustrating. There's a completely different set of rules and sure it's a different game, but randomly getting 1 tapped is never fun. I don't even think it's fun when I'm the one abusing it, needs must and all that. The point I'm trying to make is, everybody here is saying addons this and addons that, I've even had someone, a multi glad guildie of mine, deadass claim "PVP is more scripted than PVE", which is just an insane take, but there are certain things you just have to learn by doing and the doing isn't fun. Hell even if you have the addons it doesn't help you for shit if you don't have the knowledge to use them for anything. If you don't know why you have them they're just clutter. Maybe it's fun for some people, but I find it hard to believe that the majority will keep queueing if they keep getting 1 tapped in someone's opener. For comparisons sake: In PVE it's piss easy to see how and why you died. You pull up the damage meter and it tells you what killed you. Hell even without the damage meter someone will usually tell you, not always in a friendly way, but the answer is usually you stood in something. That's it! Your quest for answers is at an end and all this was accomplished in 1 line of text giving you the answer and the second line telling you you're shit. In PVP when someone kills you in the opener you can see how much damage they did to you, but that's only half maybe even a third of the answer. Even seeing what abilities they used doesn't fully get you there. If you go with just that, as I assume many new players are prone to, you come away with the idea that X class is OP cuz they 100-0'ed you with 3 casts inside "insert relevant cc tool here". I´ve heard, and used, many an excuse for why someone killed me simply because if you asked me... I couldn´t fucking tell you why I died apart from the obvious. Honestly, if you want to get anywhere in PVP it's such a steep learning curve to start with. I think you lose so many players because the gap in knowledge is just insurmountable. A friend of mine and I still laugh at how he spent 20 minutes in Zuldazar trying to teach me how to effectively kite in BFA and he eventually concluded I was too stupid to do it correctly. Not to mention doing it correctly while doing everything else you need to do as a healer to stay alive in the gushing wounds meta... You're talking about getting people who genuinely want to improve at the game and maybe I'm alone in this, but queueing up until... I don't know, last time I did this you get to about 1800 rating and you start actually playing PVP, until then it's just who smashes their buttons harder. You learn one way to play, you get to a certain threshold and it's different, you relearn how to play at your new rating until you hit the next wall and so on. I suppose part of what makes it interesting is that it is ever changing, but for me it's also what makes it insanely frustrating. Speaking in game terms, playing at 1800 rating and at 2100 rating is a completely different game. When I hit my walls I feel like someone just hit me with a hard reset. The skills I might have spent hours learning no longer apply and while I might not be at square one it can feel that way sometimes. Part of the solution could be reworking the reward system sure, but I don't think it matters so much when you hit that "wall" where you simply have to grind out the experience so much as whether there's a reasonable way for you to get there if you're just looking to "have fun and improve with your friends". Like he said, who should you be able to beat to become a gladiator? The only thing I can compare it to on the other side of the isle is cutting edge, but getting hall of fame or just CE is vastly different, but if your goal is CE it can feel just as good to get rank 1500 as getting rank 100. If you goal is glad and never reaching it... I'd imagine that's demotivating as all hell. Especially if your climb is 50 points per season as he mentioned in his video. Is gladiator the pvp version of Hall of fame or what it doesn't seem like it would be. Now I've had the good fortune to play with some hardcore pvp'ers and in other cases paid, with gold, to have the pros boost me to where I needed to be. Rated BG's saved my gold coffers on more than one occasion. Playing with friends who are competent and playing with someone who is multi glad... it's not even comparable I don't think. Oh yeah, boosting probably also ruins the experience for a lot of new players, I'm sorry for contributing to that, but if blizzard could stop blurring the lines I wouldn't need to. It's entirely possible I'm falling victim to my own biases, but in PVP it often feels like you have to spend more time analysing the game than actually playing it because skill can so greatly be compensated for with knowledge. I believe you've talked about the bar for entry in PVP being too high, but I think something that often gets overlooked is that nothing in PVP is transparent or simple and having to work ekstra hard just to understand why something didn't go your way kinda sucks. Is it comp? is it class? is it random? Is it skill? Is it mismanaging cd's? WHAT ACTUALLY WENT WRONG!! And why did it work last time, but not now? I'll probably never be a pvp'er. I love watching AWC and getting blown away by how good these people are, but every single time I get an itch to queue up for arena it's cured within 1 or 2 games. It reminds me of playing standard in MTG it's too expensive and too time consuming to keep up and you inevitably run into someone who is simply leaps and bounds better than you. I believe that if you're trying to improve you need to play with people who are better, but if the gap is too big you don't learn anything. Seeing pros do insane things is cool and all, but it doesn't mean I have a chance in hell of replicating it. Sorry for the rant I just don't think there's a simple solution to this problem.
There is actually a simple solution, even with the current system exactly as it is. The solution being “more players”. By more, not just returning players but new or fresh players. The sad part though is that this will never happen due to two reasons: 1. MMORPG, in general, is one of the least popular games nowadays.(Except in smartphone games) 2. Current WoW is very old game and hence a very large % of player base in gaming industry will never try it. The saviour can be WoW 2 or a new MMO by Blizzard which follows the same combat rules but different or refined class/spec interactions with similar systems. The fact that its a new game alone would already attract so many fresh players( based on statistics of New World, Lost Ark etc)
still same problem. i just hit my 2100 first time evero n resto shaman. did multiple 1800s on various toons/ but generally same problem across the board. there is this time, where you milk all your boosted mmr, and wherever it lands you, you get stuck. literally going up by 3-10 rating per lobby (talking SS) and than you get a lobby which shits on you entirely, you going 1/6, 0/6 losing more than you gained in last 3 lobbies. and this tred i saw across the board. specifically in season 4 DS, im 1800 on enhance sham, surv hunter, demo lock, assa rogue, disc priest, devo evoker. and 2100 on resto sham. i feel like the system is made on purpose to drag you down, unless by some exceptional skill you can bear that loop of going 40 points up to lose 50 points. than you move up. and it takes a BIG volume of games, LIKE HUGE. i saw your video vin, where you say it took you 2 month to get 2400 on alt. it shouldnt take that long period, especially for some one like you. they need to make it where you gain more rating than you lose and slowly, very slowly ascend despite locking skill. plus they need to give rewards every 100 rating. gap of 1800-2100 and 2100-2400, shouldnt exist. you should be getting something cool every 100 rating.
need to get rid of all the focus frames and shit. bring it back to manual skill. I don't use all those fancy add-ons and shit, mostly cuz I'm out of keybinds and don't know how to set it all up. But I reckon I'd trounce half these gladiator teams if they had to play without addons
The truth is part of climbing is being out for yourself and putting a ton of time in. Most people wont do that. Everyone wants to be glad but they don’t want to do what it takes to play like one. I got glad and 2250 in 2s in my 2nd season (Glad 3 seasons of SL as well) because: 1) I played almost 2000 arena games a season for 2 seasons straight between 2s and 3s. 2) Spent a ton of time getting my UI, key binds, and set up (mouse etc) perfect. 3) Watched streams to get info on how to counter comps and tailored my UI to it. (Freedoming root beam/Bopping Karma or blind/ tracking DRs/Sancing stuns and fears) 4)Made sure i played a meta comp and played with glads (Ret/War) 5) Watched the best players on my class (Vanguards/Savix etc) on how to max damage almost every night. 6) Super competitive person and became obsessed.
Hotfixes used to be about fixing bugged spells that didn't work as intended mid-season. Nerfing/buffing different spells mid-season multiple times is reducing peoples chances at reaching high rating aswell. Example: I have a thing for oneshot ele since cata, critical strike lightning/earth shock mania. In dragonflight I have yet not reached Gladiator mainly because my spec/gearsetup got nerfed/changed mid-season at least 4 times in DF1 and multiple more times in the other seasons. Class changes should be made in between seasons. Not mid-season!
Let something work as it is throughout a season so everyone may take advantage of it and have time to reroll if they want to. Not nerfing something to the ground mid-season when people actually have started rerolling to that OP class whatever it might be.
During BC & WotLK I played with my same team. In BC, season 3, we were the first time not to get gladiator in 5s. Going into wrath we got gladiator in season 2 and 3. What was the difference between gladiator and other seasons: we played meta comps, I became a top tier shot caller. I was so into the game, the game was super slow, I could see the positioning of all 6 players, and most importantly I had great switches to get kills. I will never be that type of player again. Being age 26 then, and I'm closer to 40 now. I won't even touch pvp now. I'm not even tempted, but pvp was my main mode to play from BC - Mists. Gladiator needs to be the top 10% of players, not 1%. I know the player pool is much smaller, and the toxicity from pvp players is unmatched. Blizzard doesn't care about pvp. The maintenance of pvp is probably an employee's lunch break. Ion Haz doesn't CARE about pvp. Pvp is a top down problem at blizzard.
Same. I wish I could just pvp for honor and conquest points again and buy the pieces of gear I want from vendors. I don’t have hours and hours to wait for M+ groups to pick up a casual solo player or try to get into raid groups that are too elitist-minded for their own good in hopes to even have a shot at getting a piece of gear to drop.
Just had an idea for the addon situation: Maybe blizzard could increase their rate of integration of critical weakauras and addons into the game. I.e recognize which information people use a lot in weakauras and find a great easy to use way of adding it into the base UI, obvious not a copy paste job, and you can’t get everything, but if we had reliable DR trackers, more obvious audio / enemy ability alerts and cooldown trackers it could go a long way to convincing pvpers to go no addons.
I went to mythic+ in legion and BFA then switched back to pvp in S1 shadowlands. I have been stuck at 1800-1900 on all characters since then and I know I am a much better player than I was when I started yet I can never hit 2K. It is frustrating… I hate going 4-2 in 2 or 3 lobbies, earning 60-70 total rating which takes about 3 hours with current queue times, then going 0-6 and losing 80 rating. I always end my night feeling like I’ve wasted my time. It would be good if your first loss after a win was dampened and ramped up the more games you lose in a row - that way you are not punished to heavily if you just get a really bad lobby for your spec (which does happen)
I still think they should put a handful of Mythic level BiS PvE items that you can grind out in rated PvP. Maybe you can get a piece at 1400, 1500, and 1600, and then you can unlock them with a certain number of wins if you just can't hit the rating requirement. Don't make it overwhelming. Just let people experience the game mode and get something for it. Maybe you can only get the one slot with grinding and the others flat out require a certain rating. Do the same thing for PvP items from PvE... so long as you can be good enough with either.
your team is strong as your weakest chain - swap mates and try it again. if you still stuck at same rating, its your own fault - if not , your mates blow. simple as that.
The way to fix this is that rewards should be tied to the percentage of players, not at an arbitrary number. Like if they say "Gladiator is reserved for the top 10%" and Rank 1 to the top 3% of your class" that's it. I think that would do it. I'm just making up these numbers. But you get the idea. Even you Venruki, said although you felt you were improving at shaman, you couldn't make it past Elite 2400. From my perspective, I got 2100 with Feral at one point in DF, which is not the greatest ofc, but it feels like you said, you play better, but the rating doesn't show it. No reward. Feels bad
At thid point the rewards need to all swap back to being % based. That way they are not directly tied to fixed ratings that depend on the population. I.e it doesnt matter if 10,000,000 or 10,000 people are playing thr game. If you are in the top 1% of that number you will get Gladiator, then the only thing cr is needed for is to calculate the cut-offs
I'm a 16 year WoW veteran. In regards to PvP I've only ever played random battlegrounds, I think my PvP level is like 25. I have played the game almost continuously since I started playing. I have played all classes in the game at max level at one time or another and have 10 level 70's in dragon flight, so I have a decent understanding of all the classes and specs. If I wanted to play ranked PvP and do well at it, would it be possible to do it without installing a single addon, studying a single guide, and just learn what I need to learn and get good by playing the game and using the base UI? I also don't have any friends or guildies that have any interest in PvPing so I would have to do it solo, is it at all possible? Every time I have tried to get into rated PvP I have been unsuccessful. It has been impossible to find anyone to que with me for rated arenas or RBGs. I don't think what I'm asking for is unreasonable because it can be easily done with other game modes in wow such as heroic raids and mythic plus keys up to +10.
Im an average player. How TF are y'all getting above 1500 in rating? I was thrilled when I was able to crack 1200 (for about 5 minutes). Some of y'all are above 2000?! How?! Maybe Im just well below average. [full conquest gear]
Rewards: The rewards shouldn't be tied to the numbers but % of the ladder. Find a fix to avoid early-season shenanigans. Keybinds: The issue is not the pure number of keybinds, the issue is how bloated the DPS rotations are (and how much changing your spec in prep room can change it - you need to have ~15 keybinds just to cover all the variants of your main DPS rotation +
Ven can you explain something I’m having a hard time understanding? You said “playing meta is the only way to climb” and then said shortly after that “just because a comp isn’t popular doesn’t make it bad”. What’s the difference between meta and popular?
The main problem with PvP is the amount of players. It is ok to face rank 1 players as long as it’s not every 2 game. But the thing is that the player base in 3s arena is so small that most of the remaining players still playing in that game mode are now glad players. Quick maths : if there are 10 glad players but 1000 players in total, eventually you’ll reach high rating. Let’s now say ~75% of the players felt bad and quit the game, but the glad players still feel good so they didn’t quit. You are left with 10 glad players for~ 250 players in total, so people face them way more often so they win less and achieve lower rating.
I know everyone says that rating got way easier compared to SL, but as a healer only player I had to try so much harder in every DF season, even s1. Just getting to 1800 on my healers in DF felt harder than getting 2100 on them in bfa/sl, and 2100 has felt entirely out of reach the entire duration of DF for me.
i genuinely think if blizz dipped into giving honor for doing duels (1v1s)/ giving weeklys for dueling, could really help the gearing process, getting people out of honor gear faster, helping them practice, and keeping players busy during ques. another feature could just be removing pvp gear, and just giving pve gear pvp stats. having two sets of gear is just STUPID.
I just started doing some arena this season, I have been doing BG’s for quite a long time. So I’m definitely not great at this. However for someone new to arenas, man playing a caster sucks. I tried multiple specs on my warlock (which I consider my main) and it’s fine until you get a full melee lobby then it’s just the worst. I probably won’t play my warlock anymore because of it. I popped on my ret paladin and am just crushing with the other melee and about to hit 1800 on it, it’s so much easier as a melee character it’s not even close
I’m an average/ new player and my problem is finding a healer. That’s literally it. And everyone seems to be friends and play with each other. I’m just stuck queuing with some dude that can’t speak English. I can’t play 2s bc past challenger 2 it’s just healers in 2s and you can’t win unless your comp is meta. For example a war and hunter ain’t killing a feral Druid and mist monk. And there’s just no healers for 3s it seems at all. Lastly everyone treats arena like it’s an actual career and their life depends on it. Good players don’t pick you up. But they are only good bc they have friends to play with and select meta comps. Doing arena Solo is a nightmare.
@@Stuffito being burned?? If a player is new or average he’s not burning the healer. Wow arena is just a sweaty no life fest. That’s why i only play bgs and arena skirmish sometimes. Also solo shuffle is fun. But 3s and 2s are for people who get actual life validation from video games lol. Ig arena just isn’t for casuals. That’s fine tho bc solo shuffle is perfect for us and so is battle grounds
If everyone is improving the your improvement needs to be equal or higher then the rest of the player base, only you improving doesn’t matter if everyone else improves 5% more
I really wish WoW would ban addons. Like play the game as it’s intended. Something telling what to do, or when someone does something seems like you’re bad at the game.
A friend of mine stopped pushing because he kept running into priests spamming mind control to try and crash his game for free wins. It's such a toxic sespool, then to tell us we gotta learn advanced macros, janky addons, and unrewarding progression? You would have to have been playing this for the past 20 years as your reason to still be playing. You can't convince me this is could some day become fun or worthwhile without a major overhaul. Your rating should never go down to obtain the 1800 transmog set. Just like M+. Imagine not timing your key and having your IO go down? People would lose their minds. Why then, would this be okay in PVP? Because there are other players to rank against? Who cares, leave 1801-2400 to the old MMR system so people who wanna PVP but not play CE PVP can still engage with it. Games usually don't live long enough to paint themselves into a corner like wow has. It needs to be demolished and rebuilt, but the general PVP community that's left is super toxic.
You know, Chess has a rating system kind of similar to WOW. Someone who is 1000 rating is considered average. 2K you are top 1% or so. Then there is maybe a few dozen people in the world that play at 2300,2400, etc. WOW is almost exactly like that. I play around 1700 usually and that seems about right. I’m better than a lot of people but there is still plenty of room to grow. What is the problem with the rating system? The issue is Que times the rating system is literally perfect IMO. This has been my Ted talk.
Well, my friend(hpriest) and me(surv hunt) tried to get 2100 for illusions and such But between 2050-2100 cr We ran into jellybeans(on his eu char) and got absolutely shat on Ran into snupy, got absolutely shat on Ran inti jazggz twice.. and we got close 1 game and second we got shat on This also felt very demoralizing since we werent near their level of skill, even tho we try to improve these guys are so good you dont even have the chance to reflect on those games because they are on a whole other level I think that there should be something that can register what rating you got on a certain spec that the MMR should copy that but he like 300 rating lower compared to their main, even tho it isnt their main.. it IS their main spec
That's why I don't take people with BFA 4, SL 1,2 or DF 1,2 Experience seriously, It's hyper inflated, some more than others... 2700 Warriors in SL are 2100 after 600 games now, 2400 players in SL are struggling for 2k. You have to look at Experience, when they got it, what they got it on, and in what bracket.
i was talking with my elite friends and i really think if you go 15 gams positive or certain things u should get 2100 automatically in solo shuffle because going 16 18 games positive aint easy because if you dont have rank one mmr you will never get certain rewards
Yeah arena has been this way since at least BFA. You just gight multi glads/R1 from 1800-2400. This is also how you get better though. You fight these people and get better. You don't trinket dumb things, you use defensives better, you get better at blasting and setup.
because cata was designed as the last ditch attempt to maintain the games integrity and stratifying the playerbase allong skill and ability instead of pushing mouthbreathers into the raids with hardcore gamers...
As a healer in solo shuffle I get a dps who goes 0-6 and Both healers receive 0 rating. It’s not our fault no one can win with that player in that mmr. Drop the 0-6 players rating hard and give both healers at least 10 rating. Same for 0-6 healers
![[Highlight] Hearthstone x Starcraft Showmatch vs Trumpsc!](/img/1.gif)
“You don’t need addons to play the game”
Well you don’t need shoes to run, but it sure does fucking help.
it's more like, you don't need feet to run.
@@Gronmin Exactly
@@Kanoog just need to get some of those running blades, and master that, and spend time constantly keeping up with the newest tech and mastering that. Or you'll fall behind on last years model lol
Dont forget the "I run mythic+, raids and pvp without addons" like ok? lmao
The thing with addons is they have gotten waaaay out of control. All the weak auras, horns, and shit blairing in ur ear to tell you how to use your abilities is just ridiculous. U can put a blind fold on and play the game...
Thanks for watching the vid! I appreciated hearing your perspective on my opinions!
You have good takes and you presented them really clearly.
@@Torresgamingchannel thanks man! I appreciate that.
@erradicgaming just because u want something or working hard for something dosnt mean ur good enough to get it bro
@@EmilJ1998 Genius deduction
@@EmilJ1998bro brilliant take bro. Definitely write a book about your deep insight
even the devs don't care for pvp, pvp in wow is for small circle of players who know each others and play with each others. As a new player with no friends in that circle it is basically impossible to reach glad
this one hits hard. 100% the truth. ultimately, till just get new players to quit after becoming hardstuck and unable to climb.
Also you can only get in 3v3. Why? Why not obtainable in SOLO shuffle? you can alter the achi / needed rating, but give other ppl a chance....
Yes, i get to play 2v2 with a friend. The rest is just impossible to make any progress in.
Are you eu? Can you listen? If so your welcome to rbg
Absolutely truthful statement. 100%.
Bro, I’m absolutely this guy… I literally played against Joefernandes on his Awar, with a multiglad priest at 2k, lost and got duked on during his stream because i “tryharded too much”. This is my experience with my favorite game mode since 15years… all for never being able to get that sweet glad mount that i want, and tryhard for since i’m 10… During prime wow, 2400 was never the peak human performance, awc players ALWAYS was 2k8 to 3k range, why the fuck do i have them ON THEIR MAIN in my games multiple of time during a season it’s insane…
WoW PvP community unsuprisingly awful as awlays.
The amount of Glad mounts in 1900 shuffle at end of season was mind boggling.
Then you get Pikaboo farming 1800 content on his channel 😂
Because there's only 400 people queueing during peak hour because pvp in this game is so bad.
Yeah it's cause as you get higher less people q as the average player is like 1000-1700ish
You thinking that Duelist is average, is most of the problem with PvP
Win 1, gain 16
Lose 1, lose 50
MMR sucks. Time wasting simulator
wlel, if u have 2 "friends" at 2400 cr and u are 0cr/2kcr, u can win 1 and get 60 and lose 10 and lose 0
except thats never how at works unless ur literally the top team on the ladder. a 2200 team would have equal gains for both in 99% of games
@@Sumoboi1 It is actually
@@Sumoboi1 You either don't play enough or are a troll I can't tell.
Dont forget go 4-2 in a shuffle gain 1 raiting. go 3-3 in a shuffle lose 46 rating
The top 1% of players calling themselves 'average' and Blizzard believing them when they do is what's wrong with WoW.. The ENTIRE game from the ground up is absolutely ridiculously complex in SO MANY boring and needless ways..
Whatever tho.. the community is so full of gatekeeping idiots who circle jerk on Reddit that it isn't even worth trying anymore to get through to them
We are the proletariat of WoW
I liked the game way more without focus and arena1,2,3, because targeting was a skill and you could see what your enemy is doing. We're at a point, where we look more on numbers and addons than the actual game, which is a bad design.
Plus Its impossible to cast shit, people have their macros locked and loaded with their billion addons baby feeding them information on how to play the damn game.
yeah and thats so easy to ban those macros for devs team and addons would become less helpful cause even with red fucking alert people would still need to react and not just press binded kick or stun
Ban addons, remove non-target interactions, reduce the impact of CDs. It's a Mmorpg not a wackamole in excel
this ^ they do that, and suddenly rated pvp is 10x better for non 1% players
MMORPG should never have any instanced rated pvp to begin with because rated pvp requires devs to actually involve a lot of resourses in it. Instead it's better to make pvp MASSIVE, it's massive multiplayer online rpg in the end, let us fight for land and stuff, not for some numbers. It also kind of cures the problem of "I'm trash at the game and I will never have 2400 or glad mount, why would I play it", because in this pvp impact of 1 player will be really small, only coordinators will really decide who will win. WoW is just not that kind of game, a lot of my teammates just started playing other pvp games and they are glad that they're not paying money for bad PvP expirience.
@@poorpriest4549 The solution is called unique instancing arenas. Which they have done to some extent. Gladiator should not be free, it should be percentage based. It used to be the top 3% of players on the ladder, not locked to an arbitrary rating. Turns out being the top 3% is pretty difficult. If you want it for free then yes please by all means find another game and stop ruining this one.
I'm this guy but i can't be bothered pushing higher. Its just not worth the hassle, time, toxicity, etc. It's just not justifiable. Finding 2 other non toxic players that want to game without leaving after 1 loss is near impossible these days.
Dude calls himself casual, has a same team for several seasons, get VoD reviews by a PRO etc. Like delusion off the charts. True "casuals" also known as people who like to mess in PvP from time to time, no longer exist in 2vs2 or 3vs3. There is no point, if are not full on sweat, you will lose like 19 out of 20 matches currently. There is absolutely no casual scene to dip your toes in.
True, but you can also play casually at a high rating, I had 6 characters above 2100 in 2s and Solo and I really just queued casually
@@Earthfurry717 I think you are failing to even get the word casual. If you got 6 chars over 2100 you are as sweaty as they come. We want participation from weekend warriors, from people who don't know every single offensive and defensive cool down of each spec in game. A fun game for ratings between 1500 and 2100 where it is not a sweaty affair to play.
I've seen people at 1700 in solo Shuffle with x5 more games played than all my characters combined. I can do it in less than 90 minutes of played time. Once I get 2100 I play a new character, I don't push, I don't voice, I don't have a team. I went 35-0 on a character last season...
If casuals get glad then the meaning of getting glad loses its meaning…
I just came back to game last season from a 3year break, Holy Paladin was a not so good spec, It was bad in 2s, so once my Paladin gets to 2200, It's basically an uphill battle to win, so I'd prefer to get on a new toon.
It's just when my Main gets to the rating where things get tough, I go to another character of the same class, so I can have fun.
I recently came back after 10 years to wow and would keep playing PVP if they would remove addons.
Its a hassle for a new player & I am not even new, I used addons back in the day.
Think about it:
If you join pvp today and play it a couple times, its entirely possible you dont even know about addons OR their importance.
Then you just leave because you think you suck and that means no new players.
Also screws up the UI and makes the game horrible to watch.
Blizz should implement a simple CD tracker and that's it.
Same chances for everyone.
Highly agree with this.
Duelist is not average
Bruh im average casual PvP Player and im always around 1,600-900 cr
tbh it is average if you are actually putting in effort.. you don't need to be amazing to be duelist, but yeah you need to learn the game, specs, classes, etc and what you should be doing strat wise in arena.. if you know those things, and know your rotation, you should be duelist imho..
@@jaydenn2579 brainless comment please remove that
@@ImperviouslyGaming no you need team mates. in lfg im always between 1k8 2k. in SS im above 2k4 (2k7 s7 but it was so inflated)the entire expansion
Definitely is
What is the cause of burnout?
Lack of recognition or reward for good work. Unclear or overly demanding job expectations. Working in a chaotic or high-pressure environment.
At the very least I think the reward structure needs a complete overhaul.
I for one can't wait to step into rated battle ground blitz. To me BGs are way more fun that Arena
There's a lot of barriers to entry (addons, finding teammates, experience, etc), but aside from that, I feel as though a certain "elitist" attitude has pushed a lot of casual arena players away. I'm a really chill player and I retained 2.2k in 2s and 3s for several seasons in the original release of cata to always have the tier 2 weapons. But anytime in recent history that I've wanted to get back into it again, its really hard to find likeminded players to push with. Veteran arena players are super selective for "recent" achievements, and even when I find a group around my rating, we'll play a few games together, then I'll make a mistake as the healer against really good teams, and they'll just disband or kick me without saying anything. For a lot of these issues, I feel as though its "easy" to blame blizzard for poor game design, or for not intervening with community proposed solutions, but the fact that there were eras of success where these systems worked well, tells me the issue isn't the game itself, but rather the player base engaging with the activity.
There are 0 new players for DF, if there are new players its for SoD or when Plunderstorm was a thing.
@@Kanoog dragonflight brought tons of new players, but they all rolled to solo shuffle.
Blizzard could easily do more for it, but yes, the community is too toxic for 99% of players to bother getting into. Theres a reason SS is the most played rated form of pvp, and its because you can just que, mute chat, and just play 6 rounds and gain rating and still get rewards. Not sure why your able to get literally every other reward but the glad mount, but whatever blizz.
I ended season 1 at 2150 or something close to it. I just resubbed, and after gearing in the honor gear we decided to queue 3s. My FIRST GAME at 0cr was against smexxin and vanguard... so i felt that mmr rant 😅
rip❤😂
You're a liar. Mmr didn't reset at all. Quit lying about the game.
@prod7906 that's kind of the point of my comment... wipe the cummies from your eyes and read again. Maybe practice reading comprehension.
@@prod7906and what makes him a liar then ?
He never said mmr was reset
@prod7906
Spotting your mentally ill drivel is just a hobby at this point
at 1800 I'm always going against grads, rolling in on a glad mount and just countering everything perfectly. When we play against real 1800 it's always so much more fun
That's why I miss BC / Wrath, when you hit a rating of 1850, 2150, 2400 everybody in those brackets felt like they should be in those brackets and a fresh 1500 team felt like a fresh team. Now it's ALL over the place, I would play a game at 1800 and do really well for a win. Next game it's like instant loss and I would get pulled from stealth as a Druid during the opener from across the room. Botting is a bitch.
lol more fun because? Why? You can rofl stomp then instead of getting rofl stomped? You can learn playing against glads
@@Jay-jayy-n9u its more fun to play against people with equal skill then against people who has played this game for 15 fucking years. U cant learn shit being punching bag
No one should have addons that track opponent CDs. It's that simple. It turns the game into timer simulator, takes the luck and fun out of it.
@@bmw9616there’s little to no luck involved. you don’t need the addons to track cds. I have one but I rarely look at it. You can see when a priest uses guardian spirit, a shaman uses spirit link or a dh uses darkness. You can see when a hunter turtles or a pally bubbles. And if you’re any good, with or without the addon you’ll get the kill before those cds come back. Banning a cd tracking addon wouldn’t even anything out as the best players don’t need it.
Solo shuffle is the future of rated pvp its as simple as that, LFG is nothing but a shitshow of people claiming to be 2400+ exp at 1.4-1.7k CR and only wanting meta comps and asoon as they loose once they disband. And thats not even mentioning the mutli rank 1 / glads / streamers smurfing in 1.4k-1.6k bracket. Where's solo shuffle dosnt matter what class/comp you are your going to get a game it may take awhile for queue times as dps but your 100% going to get 6 rounds.
They honestly need to move glad rewards and title to Solo Shuffle its the mode the vast majourity of the community wants and plays, Rated 3's is a relic of the past that only the top 0.1% plays and cares about.
Nobody likes solo shuffle, it’s just the only way to play with mmr that works. I’ve never talked to someone that plays it and says it’s fun.
@@MuDkipzCHancelLOr ah yes the a random claiming no one he has spoke to likes ss out of the possible million people that play it
@@MuDkipzCHancelLOr if nobody liked shuffle, it wouldn't be the most played form of rated pvp by an absolute landslide. have you seen the numbers? this guys comment is correct.
I 100% agree with that.
Solo shuffle should be the main pvp ladder, so everyone can try his best to get glad by himself. No hours of searching people that disband after 1-2 loses.. lets hope for the best guys🙏🏼
@@MuDkipzCHancelLOr Talking to yourself may likely be the reason why you didn’t find anyone who liked SS
Not to mention in order to use all the add ons it creates latency so reaction times are slower
Ven sometimes the way you talk reminds me of reckful haha I love it. Great vid
I noticed wow streamers all try to talk the same. It’s so cringe
Rip
@@Deezy_Dubz its almost as if they have played together for thousands of hours... lol
I miss Byron so much :(
"You can play whatever you want." Has never been true in competitive pvp.
Only if your like over 2500, if under you can def play what you want
The r1s at 2100 is real bro last season I didn’t even get duelist and every second team I played had a glad or R1. Like it feels so bad to get placed against these dudes, I finished at 2067. I’m hoping it will be easy street in solo RBGs in s1 war within
I’m this guy too. I’ve been playing arena a lot longer tho (WOD when I starting taking it seriously). Im to the point now where I get duelist and quit util the next season. Been do this since S1 SL
For a casual relatively unskilled player the biggest problem is bad matchmaking. Even at low ratings our team regularly encounters people who have well over 2k xp. Newbies and old casual nerds with deteriorating eyesight have zero chance against such experienced opponents. A similar system works well for chess tournaments. If you play against someone with a 1600 Elo rating, that's probably close to their true maximal skill level. In WoW, you get far too often impossibly skilled opponents even at a 1600 rating. New players need to be more than a little crazy to keep playing after getting repeatedly brutalized in such imbalanced matchups.
My 2 cents. I too started caring about pvp in SL S1 when I saw the plate set for my ret (been ret since vanilla). Led my own RBG groups to above 2500, I actually would have had Hero that season but I was trolled to going Horde from a guy I liked playing with in my pugs, didn't know about the whole have to win 5 more games so FUCK that got pissed and didn't care. I still like Grand Marshal more though.
I now just play shuffle if I like the set or enchant, I'm a duelist now and I only play with 2 addons. In s3 though I was seriously stuck just below 2.1 in the first two weeks and couldn't for the life of me get passed it and had no idea why (for clarification, I am good at Arena, I'm just not a r1 who reads every cd being used and trades perfectly based on team cds you know, like I know I'm certainly duelist lol)
I think they should make the ratings have a cap on people based on how many have played arena games. Like if 10k people have played an arena game, the top .1% has their ranks, below that it's just Elite/Duelist/Rival/Challenger/Combatant/Unranked. Play 10 games and it will put you into the correct tier based on the current MMR system so they dont have to scrap the whole thing. To progress in a league, you just get wins. Not MMR based, but win based. Losses count only a little if you're below Rival, but have more of an impact on your progress if you lose in higher ranks. (Imagine a progress bar at Duelist, 1 win = 5% to elite, 1 loss = -2% whereas combatant a loss doesn't have an impact, but for challenger it would be -.5%). This does incentivize people to keep playing at their lower ranks if they don't know what they're doing or how arena works exactly yet, but with little punishment and they can feel rewarded for getting the set.
The sets at 1800 are already easy to obtain, but they need to add more people to the pool. You already can't really speak in Shuffle without some cunt reporting you for saying "Swap bro" and getting a chat warning. People can be elitist if they want to be but it harms the pvp playerbase, the solution is to just get EVERYONE TO PVP so those douches can start teaching and hopefully understand their insults are only harming the game, not helping.
Best explanation ever.
Rewards need to go back to being percentage based. It can never go wrong with a percentage because it doesn't matter if you are 2000 rated or 50000 rated you are still top 5%, top1% or whatever. One of the biggest mistakes they did is the Gladiator requirement rework. As someone that had played WoW in the early expansions I don't ever recall rating inflation/deflation being an issue, ever. If they can't seem to find a way to make rating similar from season to season then I think percentages are the only solution. Heavily inflated seasons like SL S2 or DF S1 shuffle cause more problems than they solve, because people get ratings they do not deserve to get then when it all goes back to normal they blame the system, when the ACTUAL mistake of the system was giving them those ratings in the first place.
"don't deserve" bro you need to touch grass, it's a video game. Deserve doesn't even enter the subject
@@Saitiabroad 🤣🤣 speak for yourself mr CEO. some people actually enjoy and are passionate about their hobbies, no matter what those are.
Lets keep gate keeping rewards, good call! that will surely get more people quing!
@@compaqpunch10 I hate that the elite sets are gatekept at 1800 rating 😥 They should just be given to everyone for free at 0 rating!
@@compaqpunch10 Good attempt at irony my friend, but giving people more rewards and inflating the numbers are two different things. They can add more rewards for each skill bracket without gifting everyone rating.
I'm glad someone else mentioned the editing, there was a time I thought he was just recording his screen from his phone 😂 I felt like I was sea sick from all the rocking
What I dislike when I queue Solo Shuffle on a fresh toon with no Mmr or Soft Reset Mmr from the previous season is that I start at 1550mmr, and then I go 3-3 and lose 100Mmr, regardless of my skill level, It's hard to go better than 3-3 as a healer in the 1500 bracket. It doesn't matter too much because I can eventually get out of the ditch but It's just annoying.
5/11/24 Edit: I did some Solo Shuffles on another new Healer. In a 1800Mmr game there was a Spriest who was 100% a lost cause, I played very very well. The priest was bound to go 0-6 but I pulled out a win with her and almost won the other 2 loses but it was an incredible uphill battle. This person was a straight NPC.
I went 4-2 and lost 100MMR 1800 to 1700. (Was actually over 100) I'm not stuck here and can push miles ahead of the rating but that fact that 15minutes of my time was wasted and my Mmr took a hit after I played phenomenal AND I won the lobby is infuriating.
5/11/24 Edit: Hunter intentionally throws last round because he's upset I go 5-1 and gain 30mmr.
Can't wait until I get to the wintrading bracket. Going to be fun...
Brother I logged my mistweaver which I haven’t played since wod and started solo shuffle at 2200 mmr…. The real issue is mmr, I had to afk to drop and people spam reported me and shit talk me now I’m suspended ….
@@itsbalang1659 That's what I'm saying, Mmr seems screwy. Idk how you started at 2200, I came back from Bfa and every one of my characters started 1500.
@@Earthfurry717 I think the mmr doesn’t reset for old characters somehow say I was 2.2 mmr in wod it stays the same … and now I’m also trying to appeal to blizzard bot ai which constantly repeats that I broke tos… I’m no streamer so no one cares
sorry man i'm going to have to disagree. I boosted a 70 shaman, have never healed before, and am constantly going 4-2 to 1-5. The problem is it takes FOREVER FOR YOUR MMR TO MOVE ON HEALER
@@zomgbbqsauce12345 It's RNG at a low rating, sometimes my new healer gets 6-0 other times 5-1 4-2 3-3, Sometimes there's just that 1 Dps that is unsalvageable and you're bound to go 3-3, making you lose MMR if it's your first game. Typically I go 3-3 or 6-0 in those games.
they need to remove arena 123 option
Many players can’t even fulfill the seasonal mount requirement @ 100% for games played above 1k rating. I’m a duelist level player in an AOTC/semi mythic raiding guild and for them 1600 rating is unobtainable so they don’t even bother with ranked PvP. PvP rewards are not obtainable for casual players.. Hell, even if they dropped the requirement for the gladiator mount to 1800 rating, 90% of the player base still will not be able to obtain it.
The problem is the match making 1000% I just started doing arenas this season at 0 rating going against people who are 1500+ like wtf is that. How is my team average rating at 1493 when we’ve never played ? lol
As a long time raider and wow enjoyer (15+ years) I have wanted to get back into pvp and arenas for a very long time, but when I try it it's just way too overwhelming. I remember doing casual arenas in tbc/wotlk/cata and having a pretty good time but nowadays it's just way too sweaty to get anywhere so I don't even bother anymore. Got to 2k in I think S2 of shadowlands but didn't touch pvp at all ever since.
I think.. there shouldn’t be any rating loss from 0-2000 rating. Gives everyone the chance to get the elite set and makes it more approachable for everyone. From 2000-2399 you will lose rating but a maybe not to aggressive but not to lenient either. 2400 + 50 wins should be the most difficult part b/c of the glad title and mnt rewards. Then anywhere between 2500-3200 ( or lower ) should be a hard climb b/c of the rank 1 titles.
I’m sorry if 1800 is hard you just need to rethink wtf your doing
@@dayoftherope1690 I’ve gotten 2200 back in the day, I don’t even play DF. Haven’t played retail since WOD
How would they be elite sets then wtf
I think every competitive game mode needs to shift its reward structure to simply reward time. Keep R1 titles, but decouple every other reward from rating and put it in a renown track. Every modern shooter does this with their battle passes. Then the only thing blizzard needs to make sure is that the time investment required to max renown respects the players time. Now you have more new players; queue times go down, more games played, more enjoying arenas!
This.
It might be because at the higher brackets, there is a smaller community and they are all improving along side each other. It’s like moving faster in a car but the car next to you is matching your speed, it makes your speed feel less.
Default UI not only shows trinket CD wrong but it also doesn't show drs. If it did I'd use it.
Speaking of alts, I blame fromcanada for me not getting rank 1 shuffle as frost, that son of a gun
10:29 Wasn't Focus before Arena? They didn't "add it".
Im having trouble even getting to 1600 on my ret currently ( was 1850 last season). Yes I know its probably a skill issue but I do feel like the competition is just so steep it would be nice to go up against other normal pvp players who aren't gods.
For me, the trouble is having the time to grind for gear to even have a chance at being competitive now. My loot drop RNG is absolute ass, so gearing is next to impossible for me. I “yolo” RBGd in MoP up to like 1850 and got an achievement in Shadowlands for being in the top 30% of pvpers (maybe not a huge accomplishment for most, but as a casual player I felt awesome about earning that as a solo player) because gear was much easier to obtain and to feel competitive. Made the pvp feel like it was a lot more fun too. I don’t have hours and hours to grind out M+ and raid when people won’t take “new raiders” that haven’t dipped their feet into current raids.
Blizzards problem: blizzard default UI has no DR tracker
If you need a addon to tell you what's on Dr then you don't need to pvp you are legit letting a addon telling you when to press a button it's sad and you're apart of the problem! Might as well not even play the game if you can't do it without something assisting you!
@@Memoop-iz6vk lmao a DR is THE MOST important thing in PvP, please tell me why it shouldn’t be baseline in the UI
@@Memoop-iz6vk having a DR tracker is a lot different than all the other addons and weak auras people use, please only gods can get to glad with no addons, and never DR anything if you’re so good at counting the tracker in your head
@@derkaman123123 again it's legit easy to keep track of if u need a addon to tell you when to clone or morph again it falls inline with everything else you mentioned you're using add-ons to simplify and play the game for you without human error! Again if you need a add-on to tell you when to press a button you don't need to play! If they got rid of every add-on in the game 75% of the pvp players wouldn't even reach 1800 it's hilarious how much you all are relying on stuff just to press buttons lol
@@derkaman123123 It's still telling you when to hit a button lol! If they took add-ons away legit 75% of you all wouldn't get 1800! It's not hard to keep track of you're having a bot tell you when to hit a cc 😂
Also 2vs2 and 3vs3 ratings should be Warbond level. I think there is like 200 people constantly making alts and pushing rating which is destoying the ledder for everyone else.
There isnt really a fixed value of rating what constitutes a good player. During highly populated seasons the ratings are higher, during lower populated seasons the ratings are lower. However the 2400 bar remains the same.
Now obviously this was designed as a sort of minimum threshold while still not limitting the amount of players that could reach it. It was a much better solution than saying "anyone higher than 90th percentile will be glad".
However the 2400 bar being this hardfixed and immobile is a problem now that the player numbers are this low.
I dont have a formula to fix this exactly, however I see this as a massive design problem in terms of the ladder system.
Excellent point
My number one problem with PvP for YEARS is being rewarded with high ilevel gear the higher your rating gets. What if you just enjoy solo battlegrounds? Sucks being a casual gamer lmao
Pvp gear ilvl is the same what are you whining about son
Pvp gear is easier to get than ever... You have honor n conquest gear n that's it, all scales up.
@jugadorcastriot7796 yeah but don't you have to hit different brackets of higher and higher rating to unlock higher ilevel upgrades for gear? Or did they get rid of that?
@@jasonhendricks4562you talking your vault reward? Yea if you hit 1800 rating the vault reward will be a 502ilvl piece that scales to 528 ilvl in pvp content. All conquest gear scales to 528 ilvl in pvp content regardless of if it starts at 493 or 502 or 515 or any other ilvl.. doesn’t matter.
@MFTomp09 nice, so rating doesn't matter? Like, everyone will be on equal item level as long as they have PvP gear?
really good video its a boost for pvp community completly destroy by retails. guys wake up the wow pvp is the reel reason why people continu to log in after 10 years , btw really nice video for the community thank youtube m8
Thing about stuff like weak auras is that track peoples abilities is that you can't fix it, even if you remove addons people will just write hacks that do the same and there is no way that you can know if someone is running this unless you go on a local lan tournament.
Yeah, the rating system is kind of broken, people that are 3k rated shouldn't play with 1800 at all, even if you're on a low ilvl character, you shouldn't be paired with people that aren't on your skill level, i remember the first time i was trying to break 2400, it felt impossible it took me almost two years to break duelist, it wasn't a pleasant experience at all, and if i have to do it all over again with the current state in the game, i would probably just quite and not bother at all, it's not like there is any reward expect a title and a mount after duelist, least back in the days gear actually mattered and there was an incentive to break the 2400 mark.
By the way class balance is fine, malees just stomp casters like flies all over the place. Nothing unbalanced here folks, just a regular demon hunter with 500 micro stuns, 25 charges, 25 leaps, a bubble.
Two years to get out of duelist, man this games pvp is not worth anywhere close to that time investment, it’s a completely abandoned mode, in bfa and SL there was under 3 people TOTAL working on ALL pvp content, at one point there was one dude…. ONE. 😅
I didnt know how modded the game was until watching some streamers. At first even thought the first one was disabled, because the addon was saying the name of the spells and status effects, but then realised it was not the case.
After playing dragonflight since season 1, I've slowly just lost interest in trying to push. I'm not some crazy multiglad or anything, but I've been up there and even got gladiator once. Season 1 I managed to get 2600 on Elemental, 2500 on Enhance, and 2100 on Resto in SS. Season 2 I didn't bother with Enhance, or resto because of the slow decline but I was literally 1 point away from 2400 as Ele and tanked 100 points and just started a back and forth in rating. After that I just started to lose interest in even trying, it feels so bad managing to get between 2500 - 2600 on 2 specs just to be hardstuck 2300 on 1 spec the season after. Season 3 I only hit 2100 for the enchant and quit playing because i felt i couldn't hit 2400 even if i tried. Now in season 4 i haven't even logged on to try and probably won't play until TWW pre-patch at the soonest
LOL you doubt there are any new gladiators that ARE NOT playing with other prior glads???? you're cracked out of your mind.
how is that a cracked out of the mind take? its probably extremely rare for a team of all non glads to get glad together.
@@Sumoboi1 In df its nearly impossible. We got gald in s1 and s2 of SL and hardstuck 2100-2200 in df
@andmat3297 well S2 shadowlands was the most inflated season ever of WoW lol. More people have that glad than any other glad mount, except maybe S4 bfa.
Dude, let's be honest.. the amount of keybinds needed is absolutely ridiculous. I was multi-glad back in the day, and I got the arena itch recently after not playing for years and boosted a priest, got on, started putting my skills on my action bars and getting my bindings set up, and I was like... fuck this, this is absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe I even did it in the past.
As a casual pvper I tried to get into rated. I tried find people willing to join me in communities. All I found after days of searching was people willing to tag along in 1 BG before quiting. The casuals are willing to get more serious, but the community is unwilling to give the opporitunity because they are pushing difficulty. As a casual player I can't even find a group of casual players that want to try to take it up a level.
I would love to do RBGs but my gear is trash since I don’t hours and hours to run M+ and learn the new raids.
I 6-0 a 2k game on hpal.. then 2 games later I'm like 1820. Solo is absurdly stupid.
As far as regular 3's.. same problem it's always had. The same 50 top players farming week one and then sitting on their rating all season gating people at duelist with 3 alts of the same class.
Which venruki and every other r1 with a platform knows, but will never say. But, that's the least of the issues with the ranking system.
The actual solution to saving 3's in this game is to make solo unranked, period. And make pvp titles percentage based, like they used to be. Let's see if the devs will ever come to this glaringly apparent and simple solution. My bets are on no. Games dead if the current devs don't change their aim for the game and stop incessantly catering to casuals who want free shit. Solo and arbitrarily rating locked titles has made ranks completely meaningless. For what purpose..? So that casuals who should be hard stuck 1600 can now be hard stuck 2k.
As RET, I absolutely HATE having to use Arena1,2,3 & Part1,2,3 binds. Honestly, after years of playing and never finding consistent teammates and growing/improving together, I realized that I'll never hit Glad, even if all of the top players suddenly disappeared. While it's great to always want to improve and to have goals, I think that some of us need to be realistic with our expectations of ourselves and recognize that maybe our ceiling isn't as high as we'd like it to be. I think at that point, you'll enjoy the game a lot more.
his story is literally my story got my first 1900 in SL season 1 for the plate set decided i really wanted to push in DF with the boys and we made it to 2175 and hard walled it was extremely demoralizing with how much we swapped things up and improved and still felt like we couldnt get over the hump
I was thinking about coming back for war within after quitting 6 months ago. This just reminded me why I quit. Thanks :)
with the shuffle mounts coming out i cant see 3's getting more popular, i que for shuffle and sit in lfg as a dps. i get a shuffle que pop before i get invited to a group in lfg, i have 2k xp in both 2's and 3's but cant even get into 0 cr groups, this game cannot stay focused on premade ladders, solo q feels like the only way new players will play the game, i cannot imagine being a new player trying to get into a lfg group with 0 xp.
Hard part there is a new player has to level all the way up/then gear/ then sit half hour to hour q or lfg hunt as well. So much time people get easily distracted or bored and give up/ go to pve side.
Shuffle mounts? Are you making stuff up I can't fine anything about this
Why cant blizzard add or change mmr to increase inflation numbers based on the player base size?
Cuz pvps x15 less then pves. We haven't the way how to control blizz. Money... Capital... That's it
I have to agreed about the rework for reward structure. Nobody looks forward to getting the first glad mount or attempting to. You go versus multi rank 1 gladiators and even blizz con competitors. Very sweaty games and a hard wall to get over.
Maybe it's just because I've been a dedicated PVE'er for 15+ years now and only ever dipped my toes into pvp when there's been something relevant for me, like gearing being shit in early shadowlands or needing to get 2400 rating to get the Azeroth's champion title, but I genuinely feel like you and this guy are missing an entire segment of issues, at least from how I understand you.
Now I've played this game long enough to know every class, from a PVE perspective, relatively well. I feel comfortable saying, "name the class I'll tell you when and how it does damage". Except... that doesn't appear true at all in pvp. Sure when you watch the pros play, but for me and many people I've spoken to it's an immediate turn off. Getting caught off-guard because damage is such a difficult concept to wrap your head around in pvp just feels frustrating. There's a completely different set of rules and sure it's a different game, but randomly getting 1 tapped is never fun. I don't even think it's fun when I'm the one abusing it, needs must and all that. The point I'm trying to make is, everybody here is saying addons this and addons that, I've even had someone, a multi glad guildie of mine, deadass claim "PVP is more scripted than PVE", which is just an insane take, but there are certain things you just have to learn by doing and the doing isn't fun.
Hell even if you have the addons it doesn't help you for shit if you don't have the knowledge to use them for anything. If you don't know why you have them they're just clutter. Maybe it's fun for some people, but I find it hard to believe that the majority will keep queueing if they keep getting 1 tapped in someone's opener. For comparisons sake:
In PVE it's piss easy to see how and why you died. You pull up the damage meter and it tells you what killed you. Hell even without the damage meter someone will usually tell you, not always in a friendly way, but the answer is usually you stood in something. That's it! Your quest for answers is at an end and all this was accomplished in 1 line of text giving you the answer and the second line telling you you're shit.
In PVP when someone kills you in the opener you can see how much damage they did to you, but that's only half maybe even a third of the answer. Even seeing what abilities they used doesn't fully get you there. If you go with just that, as I assume many new players are prone to, you come away with the idea that X class is OP cuz they 100-0'ed you with 3 casts inside "insert relevant cc tool here". I´ve heard, and used, many an excuse for why someone killed me simply because if you asked me... I couldn´t fucking tell you why I died apart from the obvious.
Honestly, if you want to get anywhere in PVP it's such a steep learning curve to start with. I think you lose so many players because the gap in knowledge is just insurmountable. A friend of mine and I still laugh at how he spent 20 minutes in Zuldazar trying to teach me how to effectively kite in BFA and he eventually concluded I was too stupid to do it correctly. Not to mention doing it correctly while doing everything else you need to do as a healer to stay alive in the gushing wounds meta...
You're talking about getting people who genuinely want to improve at the game and maybe I'm alone in this, but queueing up until... I don't know, last time I did this you get to about 1800 rating and you start actually playing PVP, until then it's just who smashes their buttons harder. You learn one way to play, you get to a certain threshold and it's different, you relearn how to play at your new rating until you hit the next wall and so on. I suppose part of what makes it interesting is that it is ever changing, but for me it's also what makes it insanely frustrating. Speaking in game terms, playing at 1800 rating and at 2100 rating is a completely different game. When I hit my walls I feel like someone just hit me with a hard reset. The skills I might have spent hours learning no longer apply and while I might not be at square one it can feel that way sometimes.
Part of the solution could be reworking the reward system sure, but I don't think it matters so much when you hit that "wall" where you simply have to grind out the experience so much as whether there's a reasonable way for you to get there if you're just looking to "have fun and improve with your friends". Like he said, who should you be able to beat to become a gladiator?
The only thing I can compare it to on the other side of the isle is cutting edge, but getting hall of fame or just CE is vastly different, but if your goal is CE it can feel just as good to get rank 1500 as getting rank 100. If you goal is glad and never reaching it... I'd imagine that's demotivating as all hell. Especially if your climb is 50 points per season as he mentioned in his video. Is gladiator the pvp version of Hall of fame or what it doesn't seem like it would be.
Now I've had the good fortune to play with some hardcore pvp'ers and in other cases paid, with gold, to have the pros boost me to where I needed to be. Rated BG's saved my gold coffers on more than one occasion. Playing with friends who are competent and playing with someone who is multi glad... it's not even comparable I don't think. Oh yeah, boosting probably also ruins the experience for a lot of new players, I'm sorry for contributing to that, but if blizzard could stop blurring the lines I wouldn't need to.
It's entirely possible I'm falling victim to my own biases, but in PVP it often feels like you have to spend more time analysing the game than actually playing it because skill can so greatly be compensated for with knowledge. I believe you've talked about the bar for entry in PVP being too high, but I think something that often gets overlooked is that nothing in PVP is transparent or simple and having to work ekstra hard just to understand why something didn't go your way kinda sucks.
Is it comp? is it class? is it random? Is it skill? Is it mismanaging cd's? WHAT ACTUALLY WENT WRONG!! And why did it work last time, but not now?
I'll probably never be a pvp'er. I love watching AWC and getting blown away by how good these people are, but every single time I get an itch to queue up for arena it's cured within 1 or 2 games. It reminds me of playing standard in MTG it's too expensive and too time consuming to keep up and you inevitably run into someone who is simply leaps and bounds better than you. I believe that if you're trying to improve you need to play with people who are better, but if the gap is too big you don't learn anything. Seeing pros do insane things is cool and all, but it doesn't mean I have a chance in hell of replicating it.
Sorry for the rant I just don't think there's a simple solution to this problem.
There is actually a simple solution, even with the current system exactly as it is. The solution being “more players”. By more, not just returning players but new or fresh players.
The sad part though is that this will never happen due to two reasons:
1. MMORPG, in general, is one of the least popular games nowadays.(Except in smartphone games)
2. Current WoW is very old game and hence a very large % of player base in gaming industry will never try it.
The saviour can be WoW 2 or a new MMO by Blizzard which follows the same combat rules but different or refined class/spec interactions with similar systems. The fact that its a new game alone would already attract so many fresh players( based on statistics of New World, Lost Ark etc)
Thats the thing Venruki...
All you 2400 rank 1s would rather drop your MMR and face 1800-2100 players.. instead of actually pushing rating.
still same problem. i just hit my 2100 first time evero n resto shaman. did multiple 1800s on various toons/ but generally same problem across the board. there is this time, where you milk all your boosted mmr, and wherever it lands you, you get stuck. literally going up by 3-10 rating per lobby (talking SS) and than you get a lobby which shits on you entirely, you going 1/6, 0/6 losing more than you gained in last 3 lobbies. and this tred i saw across the board. specifically in season 4 DS, im 1800 on enhance sham, surv hunter, demo lock, assa rogue, disc priest, devo evoker. and 2100 on resto sham. i feel like the system is made on purpose to drag you down, unless by some exceptional skill you can bear that loop of going 40 points up to lose 50 points. than you move up. and it takes a BIG volume of games, LIKE HUGE. i saw your video vin, where you say it took you 2 month to get 2400 on alt. it shouldnt take that long period, especially for some one like you. they need to make it where you gain more rating than you lose and slowly, very slowly ascend despite locking skill. plus they need to give rewards every 100 rating. gap of 1800-2100 and 2100-2400, shouldnt exist. you should be getting something cool every 100 rating.
need to get rid of all the focus frames and shit. bring it back to manual skill.
I don't use all those fancy add-ons and shit, mostly cuz I'm out of keybinds and don't know how to set it all up. But I reckon I'd trounce half these gladiator teams if they had to play without addons
The truth is part of climbing is being out for yourself and putting a ton of time in. Most people wont do that. Everyone wants to be glad but they don’t want to do what it takes to play like one.
I got glad and 2250 in 2s in my 2nd season (Glad 3 seasons of SL as well) because:
1) I played almost 2000 arena games a season for 2 seasons straight between 2s and 3s.
2) Spent a ton of time getting my UI, key binds, and set up (mouse etc) perfect.
3) Watched streams to get info on how to counter comps and tailored my UI to it. (Freedoming root beam/Bopping Karma or blind/ tracking DRs/Sancing stuns and fears)
4)Made sure i played a meta comp and played with glads (Ret/War)
5) Watched the best players on my class (Vanguards/Savix etc) on how to max damage almost every night.
6) Super competitive person and became obsessed.
Hotfixes used to be about fixing bugged spells that didn't work as intended mid-season. Nerfing/buffing different spells mid-season multiple times is reducing peoples chances at reaching high rating aswell.
Example: I have a thing for oneshot ele since cata, critical strike lightning/earth shock mania.
In dragonflight I have yet not reached Gladiator mainly because my spec/gearsetup got nerfed/changed mid-season at least 4 times in DF1 and multiple more times in the other seasons.
Class changes should be made in between seasons. Not mid-season!
Let something work as it is throughout a season so everyone may take advantage of it and have time to reroll if they want to.
Not nerfing something to the ground mid-season when people actually have started rerolling to that OP class whatever it might be.
"Average player"
"Duelist"
Pick one.
1800 is top 15-20% and people act as if 2000+ is decent/average lol. Completely out of touch.
During BC & WotLK I played with my same team. In BC, season 3, we were the first time not to get gladiator in 5s. Going into wrath we got gladiator in season 2 and 3. What was the difference between gladiator and other seasons: we played meta comps, I became a top tier shot caller. I was so into the game, the game was super slow, I could see the positioning of all 6 players, and most importantly I had great switches to get kills. I will never be that type of player again. Being age 26 then, and I'm closer to 40 now. I won't even touch pvp now. I'm not even tempted, but pvp was my main mode to play from BC - Mists. Gladiator needs to be the top 10% of players, not 1%. I know the player pool is much smaller, and the toxicity from pvp players is unmatched. Blizzard doesn't care about pvp. The maintenance of pvp is probably an employee's lunch break. Ion Haz doesn't CARE about pvp. Pvp is a top down problem at blizzard.
As a 2100-2200 player i dont even have the time anymore to play arena like i use to, casual solo shuffle is more fun for me now.
My problem is gearing like as someone who just wants to que up gearing is boring and annoying tbh.
Same. I wish I could just pvp for honor and conquest points again and buy the pieces of gear I want from vendors. I don’t have hours and hours to wait for M+ groups to pick up a casual solo player or try to get into raid groups that are too elitist-minded for their own good in hopes to even have a shot at getting a piece of gear to drop.
Just had an idea for the addon situation:
Maybe blizzard could increase their rate of integration of critical weakauras and addons into the game. I.e recognize which information people use a lot in weakauras and find a great easy to use way of adding it into the base UI, obvious not a copy paste job, and you can’t get everything, but if we had reliable DR trackers, more obvious audio / enemy ability alerts and cooldown trackers it could go a long way to convincing pvpers to go no addons.
Retail is just to bloated, and too fast paced at the same time. Thats why people need all the addons.
I went to mythic+ in legion and BFA then switched back to pvp in S1 shadowlands. I have been stuck at 1800-1900 on all characters since then and I know I am a much better player than I was when I started yet I can never hit 2K. It is frustrating… I hate going 4-2 in 2 or 3 lobbies, earning 60-70 total rating which takes about 3 hours with current queue times, then going 0-6 and losing 80 rating. I always end my night feeling like I’ve wasted my time. It would be good if your first loss after a win was dampened and ramped up the more games you lose in a row - that way you are not punished to heavily if you just get a really bad lobby for your spec (which does happen)
I still think they should put a handful of Mythic level BiS PvE items that you can grind out in rated PvP.
Maybe you can get a piece at 1400, 1500, and 1600, and then you can unlock them with a certain number of wins if you just can't hit the rating requirement.
Don't make it overwhelming. Just let people experience the game mode and get something for it. Maybe you can only get the one slot with grinding and the others flat out require a certain rating. Do the same thing for PvP items from PvE... so long as you can be good enough with either.
your team is strong as your weakest chain - swap mates and try it again.
if you still stuck at same rating, its your own fault - if not , your mates blow.
simple as that.
The way to fix this is that rewards should be tied to the percentage of players, not at an arbitrary number. Like if they say "Gladiator is reserved for the top 10%" and Rank 1 to the top 3% of your class" that's it. I think that would do it. I'm just making up these numbers. But you get the idea. Even you Venruki, said although you felt you were improving at shaman, you couldn't make it past Elite 2400. From my perspective, I got 2100 with Feral at one point in DF, which is not the greatest ofc, but it feels like you said, you play better, but the rating doesn't show it. No reward. Feels bad
i think rated 3s is gonna be the new rbgs. finding a group will take too long bc everyone will be busy solo/ duo quing in the new gamemode
At thid point the rewards need to all swap back to being % based. That way they are not directly tied to fixed ratings that depend on the population.
I.e it doesnt matter if 10,000,000 or 10,000 people are playing thr game. If you are in the top 1% of that number you will get Gladiator, then the only thing cr is needed for is to calculate the cut-offs
How many players reach glad from paying R1/AWC players to group with them each season?
I'm a 16 year WoW veteran. In regards to PvP I've only ever played random battlegrounds, I think my PvP level is like 25. I have played the game almost continuously since I started playing. I have played all classes in the game at max level at one time or another and have 10 level 70's in dragon flight, so I have a decent understanding of all the classes and specs.
If I wanted to play ranked PvP and do well at it, would it be possible to do it without installing a single addon, studying a single guide, and just learn what I need to learn and get good by playing the game and using the base UI? I also don't have any friends or guildies that have any interest in PvPing so I would have to do it solo, is it at all possible?
Every time I have tried to get into rated PvP I have been unsuccessful. It has been impossible to find anyone to que with me for rated arenas or RBGs.
I don't think what I'm asking for is unreasonable because it can be easily done with other game modes in wow such as heroic raids and mythic plus keys up to +10.
Im an average player. How TF are y'all getting above 1500 in rating? I was thrilled when I was able to crack 1200 (for about 5 minutes). Some of y'all are above 2000?! How?! Maybe Im just well below average. [full conquest gear]
Rewards: The rewards shouldn't be tied to the numbers but % of the ladder. Find a fix to avoid early-season shenanigans.
Keybinds: The issue is not the pure number of keybinds, the issue is how bloated the DPS rotations are (and how much changing your spec in prep room can change it - you need to have ~15 keybinds just to cover all the variants of your main DPS rotation +
Ven can you explain something I’m having a hard time understanding? You said “playing meta is the only way to climb” and then said shortly after that “just because a comp isn’t popular doesn’t make it bad”. What’s the difference between meta and popular?
The main problem with PvP is the amount of players. It is ok to face rank 1 players as long as it’s not every 2 game. But the thing is that the player base in 3s arena is so small that most of the remaining players still playing in that game mode are now glad players.
Quick maths : if there are 10 glad players but 1000 players in total, eventually you’ll reach high rating.
Let’s now say ~75% of the players felt bad and quit the game, but the glad players still feel good so they didn’t quit. You are left with 10 glad players for~ 250 players in total, so people face them way more often so they win less and achieve lower rating.
I love running into "viewer 2s" r1 streamers in the 1800 bracket nightly
I know everyone says that rating got way easier compared to SL, but as a healer only player I had to try so much harder in every DF season, even s1.
Just getting to 1800 on my healers in DF felt harder than getting 2100 on them in bfa/sl, and 2100 has felt entirely out of reach the entire duration of DF for me.
nobody says that. SL and BFA was almost always easier to get higher rated
in solo shuff or 2's/3's?
dude s1 df was hard af no one says otherwise
i genuinely think if blizz dipped into giving honor for doing duels (1v1s)/ giving weeklys for dueling, could really help the gearing process, getting people out of honor gear faster, helping them practice, and keeping players busy during ques. another feature could just be removing pvp gear, and just giving pve gear pvp stats. having two sets of gear is just STUPID.
I just started doing some arena this season, I have been doing BG’s for quite a long time. So I’m definitely not great at this. However for someone new to arenas, man playing a caster sucks. I tried multiple specs on my warlock (which I consider my main) and it’s fine until you get a full melee lobby then it’s just the worst. I probably won’t play my warlock anymore because of it. I popped on my ret paladin and am just crushing with the other melee and about to hit 1800 on it, it’s so much easier as a melee character it’s not even close
I don't mind addons, but the button bloat and macro needs are a deterrent for me in trying to climb rating in 3s.
i think if they made the non elite set time limited instead of available next expac with marks as well new people would play to get the set
I’m an average/ new player and my problem is finding a healer. That’s literally it. And everyone seems to be friends and play with each other. I’m just stuck queuing with some dude that can’t speak English.
I can’t play 2s bc past challenger 2 it’s just healers in 2s and you can’t win unless your comp is meta. For example a war and hunter ain’t killing a feral Druid and mist monk. And there’s just no healers for 3s it seems at all.
Lastly everyone treats arena like it’s an actual career and their life depends on it. Good players don’t pick you up. But they are only good bc they have friends to play with and select meta comps. Doing arena Solo is a nightmare.
Healers have been burned by randoms so much that they often dont go out to play with people unless they know them.
@@Stuffito being burned?? If a player is new or average he’s not burning the healer. Wow arena is just a sweaty no life fest. That’s why i only play bgs and arena skirmish sometimes. Also solo shuffle is fun. But 3s and 2s are for people who get actual life validation from video games lol. Ig arena just isn’t for casuals. That’s fine tho bc solo shuffle is perfect for us and so is battle grounds
Yes class balance is pretty good right now if you compare it to former expansions
If everyone is improving the your improvement needs to be equal or higher then the rest of the player base, only you improving doesn’t matter if everyone else improves 5% more
I really wish WoW would ban addons. Like play the game as it’s intended. Something telling what to do, or when someone does something seems like you’re bad at the game.
A friend of mine stopped pushing because he kept running into priests spamming mind control to try and crash his game for free wins. It's such a toxic sespool, then to tell us we gotta learn advanced macros, janky addons, and unrewarding progression? You would have to have been playing this for the past 20 years as your reason to still be playing. You can't convince me this is could some day become fun or worthwhile without a major overhaul.
Your rating should never go down to obtain the 1800 transmog set. Just like M+. Imagine not timing your key and having your IO go down? People would lose their minds. Why then, would this be okay in PVP? Because there are other players to rank against? Who cares, leave 1801-2400 to the old MMR system so people who wanna PVP but not play CE PVP can still engage with it.
Games usually don't live long enough to paint themselves into a corner like wow has. It needs to be demolished and rebuilt, but the general PVP community that's left is super toxic.
man you should do a session with him and his team, maybe help them out with some knowledge and post a serie about it on YT
I’m a 3x glad on mage and rogue. (Season 12 14-15)
Getting duelist at this point feels impossible.
You know, Chess has a rating system kind of similar to WOW. Someone who is 1000 rating is considered average. 2K you are top 1% or so. Then there is maybe a few dozen people in the world that play at 2300,2400, etc. WOW is almost exactly like that. I play around 1700 usually and that seems about right. I’m better than a lot of people but there is still plenty of room to grow. What is the problem with the rating system? The issue is Que times the rating system is literally perfect IMO. This has been my Ted talk.
Well, my friend(hpriest) and me(surv hunt) tried to get 2100 for illusions and such
But between 2050-2100 cr
We ran into jellybeans(on his eu char) and got absolutely shat on
Ran into snupy, got absolutely shat on
Ran inti jazggz twice.. and we got close 1 game and second we got shat on
This also felt very demoralizing since we werent near their level of skill, even tho we try to improve these guys are so good you dont even have the chance to reflect on those games because they are on a whole other level
I think that there should be something that can register what rating you got on a certain spec that the MMR should copy that but he like 300 rating lower compared to their main, even tho it isnt their main.. it IS their main spec
Imagine duelist at shadowlands. Was like 1600 at df season 3
only eason 2 tbh
That's why I don't take people with BFA 4, SL 1,2 or DF 1,2 Experience seriously, It's hyper inflated, some more than others... 2700 Warriors in SL are 2100 after 600 games now, 2400 players in SL are struggling for 2k. You have to look at Experience, when they got it, what they got it on, and in what bracket.
2400 since SL is 2.1 in xpacs like cata and mop imo
@@Earthfurry717 I d9nt invite anyone who's below 2600 as a general rule
@@prod7906get some standards, must be rank 1 at least 10 consecutive seasons and be a streamer as a full time job to be invited to my groups
i was talking with my elite friends and i really think if you go 15 gams positive or certain things u should get 2100 automatically in solo shuffle because going 16 18 games positive aint easy because if you dont have rank one mmr you will never get certain rewards
Yeah arena has been this way since at least BFA. You just gight multi glads/R1 from 1800-2400. This is also how you get better though. You fight these people and get better. You don't trinket dumb things, you use defensives better, you get better at blasting and setup.
I've felt like that since MoP
because cata was designed as the last ditch attempt to maintain the games integrity and stratifying the playerbase allong skill and ability instead of pushing mouthbreathers into the raids with hardcore gamers...
As a healer in solo shuffle I get a dps who goes 0-6 and Both healers receive 0 rating. It’s not our fault no one can win with that player in that mmr. Drop the 0-6 players rating hard and give both healers at least 10 rating. Same for 0-6 healers