15:45 rated pvp is really fun. The queue times are just terrible. Nobody has time to sit in front of their computer for 20 minutes just waiting for a queue pop.
I just hit 2.4 in Bgb and 20 minutes would of been a life saver. I get between 50 and 70 minutes que and when you lose because your 2400 but have three 1700 players at 2900 mmr it's crazy to think about but it happens alot.
this why i quit rated pvp and sold my account yesterday. pvp is still fun enough but queue is really makes me exausted. this is not the last season of expansion. this is the first season of tww lmao how do you imagine the last season of tww? sadly wow pvp ahs been obliterated so sad
1. The game has become to complex and complicated for anyone new to understand. 2. No one but sweaty veterans still are playing. 3. So many other great games out there to play.
No sane person is going to sit through 25 minutes per Que just to get farmed by some turbo-sweat Meta Slaves who have been doing arenas for 16 years. Only to hear them talk crap on their stream. Nobody.
Yeah, i just said that exact same thing. And the issue with trying to play FOTM is that, let's say FOTM is warrior.. and you are new to a warrior, there is no way in hell you are going to beat people who their actual one trick class is a warrior. So it's like, even when you try to play the FOTM, you still get stomped out unless you play 500 games on the class to be actually proficient at the class. It's just a weird dynamic.
Retail doesn’t feel like an mmo anymore, it’s a lobby game. Unlike other lobby games, where que times are anywhere from instant to 2-3 minutes for the majority, we’re often stuck with 15-30+ as dps or forced out of the role we prefer to play. If you sit down for a 4 hour session, which is decent playtime for those that work and or have kids, we’re just not getting many games in. I have no idea how to boost participation but I feel like increasing rewards won’t increase participation to the level that is needed. It may help some but I don’t think it’s a pure remedy.
This is exactly what I think about mythic+ and raid as well. It's mostly separate from the general game world, could be perfectly played as a lobby game.
Can’t fix never coming out with shadowlands. Can’t fix never coming out with bfa. Can’t fix it bro. No amount of system changes, participation, nothing. No amount of anything will get this game in a good state. If the story sucks the game sucks
Honestly, most dad gamers don't have four hours a night to play. I'd say it's more like two. I also think PvP participation is going down because a lot of players are simply too old and busy to keep up with it. If you think about it, this is way more complex that a basic FPS game like CoD because all the different specs/classes do different things. What working dad has time to not only learn their class/spec, but enough about every other class/spec to be able to counter them? This was a bit easier when the game was less complex, but now? Nobody has that kind of time. So WoW PvP has become extremely casual unfriendly, and all you have is the hyper sweats while all the "normal" people "retire" to either just random BGs, only PvE, or back to Classic. PvP was sacrificed at the alter of raid complexity, and this is the result.
that problem you highlighted is kind of created by players in a lot of scenarios and it gets seen in other games too. everyone wants to play DPS and so eventually queues slow down to a halt because you have 20 dps players for every 1 person wanting to play tank/heal etc. idk how you solve this issue either because it doesnt seem like one that blizzard can easily fix either since even when tanks/healers are OP, people simply dont want to play the role. League of Legends has this issue too but they solved it with autofill which you see a lot at certain rankings where some roles just get auto filled 24/7
Ven has made this exact video 100x 😅 Your perspective is odd to me and seems like cognitive dissonance. The same comfort you feel, I see Stockholm syndrome. I see someone trapped in their own mind.
@@teddypicker8799 do you think him playing for money makes him more or less free to choose whether he actually wants to play or not? Also, OP does play the game. He literally said he’s back and it feels good when he comes back and Ven is still around. If he’s not back, how would he notice Ven is still around? You’re low iq.
PVP was awesome before arena came around. The og maps like WSG, AB and AV need to mean something again. If they would stop putting arena and rated on super high petatstols and made pvp gear powerful in the open world like it was, things would be better.
Yes when your gear made a difference there was something to play for. Now it's just like you are collecting mogs. I think its the reason why i can not be bothrred too.@texasbradley
@@texasbradley Agree, WPVP and BG's are what I prefer, but Blizzards prioritizing arena for best gear made me not want to play. I then discovered MOBA's and never came back to WOW's pvp.
Grinding Gear in PvP is not fun. PvP should be skill not farming like PvE. Make a system with no stuff in PvP anf only cosmetic/gold/resources reward an ppl will start PvP for fun again
They didn't even mention my 2 favorite stats: - 87% of players in SS are below 1800 rating and have received ZERO rewards this season! - For many specs the R1 cutoff (top 0.1% of the ladder) is BELOW 2400 ... you will get rank 1 before you reach elite! As venruki pointed out, when WoW incentivizes playing only for the last 2 weeks of the season, then participation is bound to get decline ...
A thing i always felt wierd like is that in terms of rewards in M+ about 55% of active players in M+ have gotten the Mount + Keystone Master, 40% have reached Keystone Hero, which unlocks the aditional Colors for the Tier Sets ( what you unlock at 2400 in pvp) that seems way more achievable than needing to be in the top 15% to get the Elite set, top 1,5% to get the Tabbard etc. no wonder participation dies down after 1800
Rated PVP is fun (to me) BUT I can easily see how 96% of the player base wouldn’t like it. As a healer you spend 85% of the game CC’d and unable to move or act, you have over 50 keybinds just play (compared to league of legends 4 buttons), and there’s so much game knowledge you need to even start playing it. That last comment was right, most people don’t find it fun. Adding FOMO rewards can only help so much.
Yep. If they really wanted to improve PvP, they'd simply make it it's own separate game mode, drastically reduce the number of buttons, and let people jump right in without leveling or gearing. Edit: one of the biggest things holding back WoW PvP is the vestigial link to the RPG side of the game. The only way it can move forward is to finally sever that link.
@seanwilliams7655 I posted this above but I'm curious what u think of this idea for WOW PVP... I'm no expert but what do you think about a stripped down "honor mode" style of pvp. You have the lore that heroes don't use their full power om each other because it's not honorable. So you have players use a stripped down toolkit like a mini-spec. A mini-spec is choosing like 5 or 6 abilities and that's all you have for the match. This offers chances to create super niche builds, lots of load outs to try, limit button bloat for new players, less visual clutter, meaningful choices between mobility, cc and damage and greater variety in team comps.
you know if you based the rating brackets on percentage, and used the entire playerbase as the basis for the percentages, you could incentivize pvp simply by the fact that nobody is playing pvp.. say you have a rating reward for being in the top 5% of ALL players, not just pvpers.. that would mean its easier to obtain when less people are pvping.. because 5% of the total playerbase may verywell be more than the entire pvp playerbase at this point.. so such a reward would be up for grabs to literally any player who wants to try pvp, even if its their first time. locking rewards behind a 5% bracket which only counts the pvp playerbase is what kills incentive. there are no active pvpers, so 5% of the pvp playerbase is 0.25% of the total playerbase.. if even that. good luck selling that to new players.
As a returning and basically new player I can tell you what got me through jumping through all the hoops and learning the itemization, my class, and all the subsystems of the progression was the satisfaction of realizing 'my' build. So you can imagine how deflated I was that some of the embellishments I tried to use bugged out and give me the wrong stats or don't even apply to my items at all EVEN THOUGH THE CRAFTING TABLE SAYS I CAN, AND STILL SAYS SO 2 MONTHS LATER. And then GMs telling me that there's no way they can reimburse the item, only that they know about the issue and are working to fix it asap. Still waiting. I don't remember wow being this buggy, I understand 10 years+ probably adds a lot to a codebase, so things are hard to track. But it seems like unless you level how everyone else is leveling, playing the same classes and spec everyone is playing, building the same items and enchants/embellishments everyone else is using, and using the same subsystems everyone else is using. You're likely to run into things that just don't work. Seems like they only devote time fixing bugs that'll impact the mainstream endgame players. And the input lag, even on low MS, all kinds of different settings... it was never this bad back in the day. Press a button, ability goes off, hear the sfx, 1 second later you see the damage. Is this what an end-of-life mmo feels like?
I mean... when the game comes down to who can manage and read a stack of add ons better , and each match feels like a battle of numerics it's really not fun Anymore. Remember when you would waste a global on a poly because you didn't track it right in your head? Yeah....neither does anyone else. The types of add ons allowed in wow would be considered cheating in pretty much every other game out there, and its unacceptable to allow 3rd party mods in a AAA live service game that not only has a box fee, but a monthly sub. Changing your UI is 1 thing, seeing other people's CDs... that's like wall hacking in a FPS
@@GardenisLife but it is true, M+ is extremely bad this expansion, and well pvp is just not even looked at by blizz anymore so its basically considered dead.
@@GardenisLifeNo man, most of my friends are M+ players and its even worse than PVP. The raid balancing is also horrid as well apparently with one of the last bosses being EXTREMELY poorly designed.
Ehh there is problems but, there is still a ton of people still playing. M+ has way too much burst damage and our health pools are too low for the amount of damage so they gotta do one or another and either nerf the dmg or raise the health pool. Still I’m glad it is challenging that way those classic players can stay over there and not make peoples keys shit.
In my guild (over 100 active people) only 3 of us play PvP (regularly and only me was able to achieve 2,4k rat) all since DF... If I ask why people don't even try to play PvP, I could help them, the answers are usually "no reason", "classes are too complicated for PvP", "too many things to track, too confusing", "too long queues, waste of time"... Hard to argue with that... I always play wow because of PvP... and lately I play less and less and less... Edit: Sorry the game is not fun, mainly because it's almost impossible to get any games played... "normal" people (non streamers) don't have time to wait in queues... After work/evening wanna play some games, on Friday I was able to play 3 solo shuffles and 1 blitz in 3hours... so... nah thanks... played an another game next night
Seems all logical to me: They decided to put in juicy rewards at 1800 and 1950 rating, where going higher, even for 2100 duelist, is not only pretty hard with the current deflated situation, but also a timewaste, because unrewarding. Going higher and for glad is just impossible, so even strong people and pvp veterans are incentivized to hit their 1950, maybe 2100, and then quit... that happens when your elo system feels like a barrel of poop from the stoneage and pushing up that barrel brings you literally no rewards. If they don't fix it now, they'll kill pvp in wow soon forever.
I used to be an avid PvPer back in Burning Crusade and Wrath. Got pretty close to 2k rating in BC, stopped PvPing after WoD, tried to get back in during SL and Dragonflight......holy moly. WAYYY too complex. In order to actually enjoy PvP you have to understand it, it's not like PvM where you can go do open world content and smack down a mob who has 1-2 abilities. You've got to learn every relevant ability in the game for every spec...which amounts to like 200+ spells. Then you have to learn which spells hit the hardest, when someone is in a CD window, learn the PvP talents, setup several addons to track information....the barrier to entry for PvP isnt just a wall, it's a whole universe you have to learn. AND THEN, all you've done is put yourself on even-footing (in terms of knowledge) as all the people who've been grinding it for 6months-10+years. Good luck making better use of your newly found info than those people.
As a long time player / viewer. Ive been contemplating on the idea of a "gladiator saddle" to receive some of the old glad mounts. Might bring back a solid chunk of players, and encourage others to work for a mount they always wanted/ missed
Or instead of a direct old glad mount copy, maybe like a new recolour of each expansion for the gladiator saddle grind. Easy bonus reward for the higher end. Now if only I could get glad 🤣
Got back to wow for TWW (after not playing since bfa). I was hyped to get into PvP again but I got really disappointed really fast. After only 3 games of solo shuffle, it was already taking 15-20mins to get a game. I thoght I'd just go do some 2s for quick queues, it's legit impossible to find a normal person to play with in the Group finder. Everyone is asking for 2.4k xp just to push 1.8-2k rating. Wow pvp became such a joke.
For me the situation is just discouraging. I put some effort into improving, and went from from 1600 (end season) to 1800 (early mid season). When I found out that everyone else in my peer group easily surpassed my rating just by waiting till end season, i stopped playing. It just invalidated my feeling of accomplishment.
I think a lot of people want to pvp but just can’t get into games. I had an idea the other day where i thought they could bring back brawlers guild but allow players to fight each other 2v2 or 3v3 just as a time filler between arena qs. Or if they could make a strictly PvP zone kinda like cyrodil in eso. They could make objectives to take like they had in BC and earn rewards through that.
+300-400 MMR injection needs to happen now or I fear the game will be too far behind in PvP Population to ever make a significant comeback. Season 1 is always vital to an expansion's reputation and interest (Its hard to win people back to an expansion they quit early, and these newer expansions feel much less significant in terms of new content). The fact that the 1st page on the wow leaderboards is upper 2500-2800 CR is ridiculous. It's usually 2800-3400 CR 1st page (Usually higher averages in S1 of an xpac), which im sure is extremely demotivating for people trying to earn their first 2K/2200/elite/gladiator. For reference I feel I could get gladiator now if I went all in, but for the same effort that got me around 2700 CR in Dragonflight. No one wants to work harder to be 300 CR lower, despite feeling like they are improving at the game.
@@zach1122 I appreciate it, they already did a 300 MMR Injection roughly about a month or two earlier. I think it's likely to pretty up their end of season numbers, and create momentum going into Season 2. They just dont want people to earn their rewards until end of season because they know people will unsub after, so its better to artificially block progression until the new season starts, that way there is a new start and more content to repeat the cycle over and over.
I’ve happily played between 1600-1900 rating since legion logging 100+ games on at least 2-4 toons each season. A huge part of that was because I would actually make friends through games, both w’s and l’s and just enjoying hammering out matches. But SS just removed such a large portion of chill people who want to just enjoy games, who used to be there in LFG at a presence or frequency much much higher than today. LFG isn’t the same
Can I just say - a LOT of us think of Retail WoW as a seasonal activity game. We have a list of objectives, we achieve them, then we go and play any of the other versions of WoW that exist. Like Classic, Anniversary, Hardcore, Season of Discovery, Cataclysm. It's NOT that no one is playing. It's that we're just not playing the Retail version of the game. Thank you for reading my comment.
The problem with Retail that I’ve noticed is that if there’s no insane reward behind a certain game mode, not many people play. What does that say about the game? We’re not playing cause the game is actually fun, we play for rewards. There’s a crucial issue in the foundation of Retail.
I really want to get into WoW PvP but as someone who does not much too much WoW experience (outside of watching streams) in general I feel so overwhelmed. I think having an easier path of introduction or somewhat of a roadmap in the game that teaches me how to PvP would make me take the leap to get into it.
It's a big learning curve, where you add knowledge from time to time. Most definitely want to learn proper pve before adding some layers on top of that like positioning, targeting dynamically, keeping track on focus target or DR
Probably want to avoid abbreviations and jargon with someone unfamiliar with the game lol. Either way the participation in pvp is so low there is no incentive for blizzard to create an entry point. They have been slowly letting it die out and it's almost there. I'll be surprised if rated pvp exists in the next expansion.
?? What do you mean teaches you how to pvp? Just play the game if ure having fun and you will learn slowly and naturally. Why do you want guides for everything man? Play the game,have fun and you will learn by yourself . If youre not having fun, dont play and dont force it.
@ I understand learning Arena itself in that manner. Do you realize how confusing actually getting to ranked arena is? The gear requirements? The game itself teaches you none of that, without going to a 3rd party source I would have no idea about conquest gear or the PvP vendors in general. As a new player this makes the barrier to entry seem extremely high. Just to be able to start playing and then still have no idea how to actually play arena
Blizzard has totally failed this season both in pvp and in mythic+. Lfg for both is practically semi dead. The mythic + community is in a turmoil and no one wants to push because there is no rewards, no incentive. Rated pvp is suffering from major rating deflation, which blizzard fails to fix. I think most of the people that quit playing arena and m+ don’t unsub but rather just play smth else and log in for some random mog run or whatever. So blizzard doesn’t care if you are ok with the content - they just look at the sub numbers and if they are ok, business is good.
Part of the problem is that it just sucks getting into PvP at all, and when you do, you get ballooned to 1800 and get absolutely shitcanned by 2400 players on an alt. A "medal" system would involve placement games, those placement games would get you to a more accurate representation of your skill level, you play against people closer to your skill level. Right now, if I start PvP since I haven't played all season, I'm going to start around 1800, get shitwrecked in my half green half purple pvp gear and probably quit. The barrier to entry is obscene, and the amount of people i recognize as they climb with an alt when their main is 2400 is staggering. As a not pro PvP player, I play these guys and it's not a game, it's an ass whooping.
The healer population problem is clearly the main bottleneck to solo shuffle queue times and it could be solved with a bit of drastic but necessary action. Players simply don’t want to main healer, but does that mean they would never tolerate playing healer? No. Plenty of other games like League use an “Autofill” system that occasionally forces one dps main to play a healer(in League, support) in order to make queue times faster. Blizzard may not be able to literally force players onto a healer because of technical issues (the game would have to make you log out of one character and onto a healer for which you may not even have keybinds set up). But what they could do is simply track the number of solo shuffle healer games you play and give you an account wide buff to put you a bit ahead in the queue on your dps main depending on how many healer games you’ve played on that account. This system could also give you more rewards for your main dps if you play healer occasionally. It should also instantly give you the same ilvl quality of gear of your stat selection for that healer character corresponding to the ilvl of your highest ilvl pvp character. There will always be some players who refuse to ever play healer, but a system like this needs to exist if we ever want the queue times to go down to a reasonable level. And it helps to reward the people most willing to help everyone (by playing healer sometimes).
I spent all season playing my dk, over 1000 rounds trying to climb to 1800. I was stuck at 1790ish till mid Nov when the inflation changed. Same with my disc priest, 1000 rounds played and hit 1800 after being stuck at 1700. I loaded my DH last week, several weeks after the inflation kicked in and I won by placement games, queues at 1900 mmr for 30 rounds and hit 1800 in like 2 days. My friends quit about 3 weeks into the season because they couldn't climb and they're gonna resub when the new patch hits and get their games in. Don't get me wrong, I had a good time playing, I learned a lot, but the beginning of the season was a real struggle and the end of the season feels easy.
1800 - Bad Armor Mog 1950 - Uncool Enchant 2100 - Mediocre Weapon Mog 2400 - Tabard (I forget what the cloak is) 3v3 is to frustrating because blizzard doesn't know how to balance classes and the mount sucks. Shuffle is fine as long as the players on your team have a brain. (8/10 times they don't). Blitz can be fun but you have to rely on 7 other bots to be programmed correctly. RBGs don't exist. 2s are honor/conquest farms. Long story short. Get 2100. Stop playing.
No it's not shocking, nobody likes arena style gameplay and over the years they've grown resentful that they were forced to play that way when what we all really liked about WoW's PVP was the part that the "competitive scene" hates -- Large scale, siege style, BGs and open world. The only shocking thing is that the "old blood arena establishment" players still don't get it. Look at Plunderstorm - Again, large scale, open world, Fresh. Time and time again the audience expresses what they want but Blizzard listens to literal arena junkies for their feedback instead. Then Plunderstorm comes out, and it's the most popular PVP mode to date. Crazy right.
Lots of people like arenas. A lot of PvPers also don't want to do PvE BGs, or "epic" (lmao) BGs. Plunderstorm is a completely different game so can't be compared. It's like comparing WoW to Starcraft: a pointless comparison.
Plunderstorm isnt remotely comparable to large scale open world pvp/bg's. you more often face one team max 2 at a time in plunder, making it more like an arena 2v2 or 2v2v2 until you get to the very end
My friends and I were playing at the start but it took Bliz over a month to fix the % progress for the Vicious Mount. We all stopped doing PvP after the month mark.
Former multi r1 20x glad player here. Quit the game a month after s1 officially launched. Everything you described in the last few videos about wow has been the nail on the head. In fact … you’ve been saying it all for years for several expansions, blizz just doesn’t care to update stuff or overhaul it asap so ppl like myself fall off and quit caring.
I quit wow back in Shadowlands after a being a loyal fan since original TBC. What really killed/Is killing WOW is ACTIVISION greedness and Blizzard lack of respect to the playerbase and loyal fans. I do not wish ill to current WOW players, but i MUST advice them: Quit NOW ! Go out, travel , or even play other games on PS or XBOX ... WOW will always make you sad
quit in SL, i prefered the setting to something nice, happy go lucky like dragonflight so i avoided dragonflight, seen they are not recovering but doubling trippling quadruppling down on thesame mistakes in order to appease the lowest of the low in the community. The filth, the scum, the casuals who do not want to learn to play, do not like challengee, do not like progression and pretty much dont like WOW in general...
As an arena player why play the game when the only ladder with gladiator is 3v3 and its has rank ones at 1900 every game with 0 new rewards baked into the game or development. Players don’t invest in games where the developers don’t invest in the player base. It’s a simple as that.
4.8% is optimistic. Only 1.35% of accounts have the Vicious Skyflayer mount (the saddle one, not the glad mount) from this season, I think that's a more accurate measure of the actual ACTIVE (at least for 50 wins) players.
Because it's not PvP. It's a button-bloat, PVE rotation style with 300 addons on top of it. Nobody is skilling at anything, it's just AoE spam and cycle through 9 defensive and offensive CDs and after 10 minutes and there's a lot of dampening, somebody dies. Rinse and repeat. Not interesting at all. Kill button bloat, kill 45 button rotations, have individual spells do something to the opponent, kill addons, everybody will be back. And kill AoE damage at about 95%.
I'm no expert but what do you think about a stripped down "honor mode" style of pvp. You have the lore that heroes don't use their full power om each other because it's not honorable. So you have players use a stripped down toolkit like a mini-spec. A mini-spec is choosing like 5 or 6 abilities and that's all you have for the match. This offers chances to create super niche builds, lots of load outs to try, limit button bloat for new players, less visual clutter, meaningful choices between mobility, cc and damage and greater variety in team comps.
That's better suggestion than I've heard from most so called experts. I think lots of "experts" wouldn't agree, but blizz catering to them is the reason pvp is dying anyway. Causal audience is what makes and breaks every game
Tried to push 1800 in solo shuffle last week on my holy paladin, Got to 1750 and lost 6-0 to a sus asf looking boost group. Been playing Hogwarts Legacy since then and actually enjoying myself playing games again
Playing healer sucks. Everything rests upon you and if you happen to play against some no lifer who just created a new character you’re in for a miserable time. I’m gonna keep playing classic for now.
Its sad, because I like retail pvp maybe most of all expansions. I play many specs thanks to good gearing system and all are fun and to me class balance is good. I also like SS and blitz, because I don´t have teammates and I just want to que, without hours of looking in LFG. I agree with that problems and I hope they solve it, because rest of the game is really fun now.
This is a problem for all of WoW whether its PvP or PvE due to a system that is heavily based around gated content to try retain as much subs as possible, they could fix the issue by adding a Renown system similar to the first plunderstorm to both PvE and PvP as this will just increase the numbers of people participating. The model that Blizzard is currently using is similar to how gym subscriptions work as they don't want you playing the game 24/7 as that isn't cost effective for them they want you to log on every week for a few hours and log of which they have stated many of times before as long as you remain subbed and they can report higher sub numbers then everyone is happy but meanwhile playing this version of WoW is miserable.
"they could fix the issue by adding a renown" you could genuinely not be more lost about the problems that world of warcraft PVP in 2025 has as an entirety. you thinking adding a reputation is going to revert a decade of decline? in the most respectful way possible you really need to think more broadly about this
@@atSeebs If we are talking about Participation then and if this Renown could only be required from 3v3 then yes this would definitely increase the numbers of players inside 3v3, people are still playing PvP the problem lies when you keep creating different brackets that are also easier ways of obtaining the desired reward that they are aiming for, so when we are talking about fixing the participation, not fixing the balance or MMR system then this is one of the ways that they will be able to bring players back to playing the 3v3 rating bracket. They have done things like this to increase participation like when in shadowlands S1 they had rbgs give a extra 400 conquest each week while im not really a fan of that previous system i think a system that allows players to work towards the FOMO rewards this will definitely increase the participation and also prevent waiting until the last few weeks of the season to start playing and whilst i'm offering solutions you nowhere in your reply is there any talk of what they can do to solve the problem?
I did glad every expansion (not every season) since TBC and since Dragonflight i deleted my friend list and only solo snuffle, i play WoW the same i play League of legend, i log i queue i play. I remember waiting in lfg for hours to find players to push with, it was a nightmare, they can create the best glad mount ever it doesn’t matter i won’t play 3v3 ever again.
@@KennyFalmouth506 they listened to them, and to hardcore raiders. Many of the current devs were hardcore raiders themselves back in the day. Chief among them Ion. So of course that's who they're going to cater the game to.
@@KennyFalmouth506 I think the increase in complexity is tied to mythic raiding and the hardcore raiding community, and that increase in complexity has made it harder to become good at PvP because you need to know not only your class, but the other classes well enough to counter them. Casual players don't have that kind of time, and so the bottow 70% of the PvP ladder has been basically cut off.
Look at that! SL season 2 (where rating was inflated) had the MOST players achieveing 2400. It's the last time I ever felt I had a realistic chance at gladiator. Now I dont even fuckin bother. Rating is so deflated whats the point? Que into mutliglads at 1500-1600 lmao
Hi Venruki, long time viewer (12+ years) I remember seeing a video very similar to this, maybe 2 years ago. I don't play the game anymore due to issues like this, but I lurk around from time to time to see if its improving. Disappointing to see nothing has changed and in fact probably gotten worse.
Remove all Addons from the arena. One of the biggest gate keeping everyone I know who tried but won’t pvp is having to set up their up differently to play in the arena from their world quest, m+ and raiding ui, as well as must have addons to even stand a chance. Next add some arena tutorial modes / training modes as this will take the pressure off of the ranked system for them. 3rd, add small rewards that happen bi- weekly for participating. (Emotes, toys, animations, anything really). 4th add some bloody balance fixes faster. Nothing like classes (currently looking at you feral) that’s soo dominant people feel they have to reroll or play it because everything else pales in comparison. I’m in Eu and fed up of seeing the same few classes or even comps that are in 3/4 games at least. And these tend to last most of the season. Be more on the ball.
The addons thing, I can't agree all the way. I've seen Tosan played with the barebones/default arena UI and still get RankOne/Glad, I myself have always gotten 2100+(I've Never tried pushing Glad though) using GladiatorLossa, Lose control and OmniCD(this one I started using it when they introduced SoloShuffle) in their default settings but the people you addressed that already have a preferred setup/Addons/UI for the things they find important like WorldQuests, openworld content, PvE cant even bother to setup some basic arena stuffs like the ones I'm using? Maybe they don't deserve to do well in PvP or something else that they don't want to commit 15mins to setup, I and a lot of others were fine before we used the addons, but they sure made it easier.
AWC... what WoW needs is a special olympics version so the rest of us can get some acclaim rather than just being there for the skilled played to feed upon on their way back to another AWC
I like the current balance, but the only reason I push blitz is for the hope of a r1 title. If there was a 'glad mount' for 50 games above 2400 in shuffle and blitz, a lot more people would play.
Rated pvp needs wayyyyyy more rewards. More cosmetics and mounts. Maybe a PvP *battle pass* like New World does. Something to keep people engaged after getting their elite set.
In these calculations some asumptions are taken: ( numbers are taken from data for azeroth) 1. People are considered ''Acitve Accounts'' in a Season when they have reached Keystone Explorer or Combatant 1 ( the earliest achievments to get for each respective Gamemode) 2. Keystone Explorer is considered Equal to Combatant 1 ( as they are both the earliest achievments) 3. Keystone Hero and Elite are considered the same ( as they are considered the same in the achievment which requires 2400+ Rating or "500+ Mythic rating) 4. since the numbers and data is taken from data for azeroth these are not 100% accurate but show a general trend In the current Season War Within season 1: Keystone Explorer is at 24% Combatant 1 at 4,5% this means there are on average 5,3x more active m+ players then pvp players Keystone Master which already rewards the Mount is at 13,6% Challanger which awards you well some armor pieces is at 3,9% = 3,9x 5,3 = Keystone Hero which is equal to Elite ( due to the achievment for more visuals on your sets): Keystone Hero is at 6,6% Elite is at 0,12% now if we calculate this with the participation of M+ players so times 5,3x 0,12 we are at = 0,636% or in other words it is about 10,4 times more characters ( if participation would be the same) would be able to get to 2500m+ rating then 2400 Rating in wow pvp. Or if we take the bare numbers by themselfes for 1 Elite Account there are 55 Accounts that have Keystone Hero. And if the current participation would be the same for pvp and m+ there would be 1 Elite every 10,4 Keystone Heroes. Dragonflight Season 1 Keystone Explorer 45% Combatant 1 at 15% Challanger at 10% Keystone Master 31% Keystone Hero 18% Elite at 1% if we calculate that up it would be 3% if the same amount of people played pvp than m+ ( which would end up with the same amount of participation of accounts) there would be 1 Elite player for every 6 Keystone Heroes. And this is even the closest one of the seasons with Solo Shuffle being so hugely high with inflation. Dragonflight season 3 Keystone Explorer: 37,8% Combatant 1: 8,6% which means on average 4,4x times more people participated in m+ then in pvp. Elite: 0,318% Keystone Hero: 24.4% 0,318 x 4,4 (then the player base would be on the same size) we would end up at 1,4% in this season it is 17,5 Keystone Heroes for every Elite player Out of these snapshots, we can see that: 1. Keystone Explorer / Keystone Master seem to be about the same % wise as Combatant and Challenger with Playerbase Accounts adjusted. 2. way more people who ''actively play'' and reach Keystone Explorer in a season seem to reach Keystone Hero, Ranging from: 40 - 64,5% 3. for elite it seems that around 2,6% to 6,6% of ''active accounts'' can reach it. So far it seems that the highest M+ achievment Keystone Hero ( which rewards the Additional Apperances and thus can be considered equal) is about 10 to 15 times more likely to be achieved than to Reach Elite as an active player in the respective gamemode. A big question for me than comes up to why this is the case? And if this should be the case? To show how tricky the queston is: Battle for Azeroth Season 4 is considered one of the easiest seasons to ever reach Elite or Gladiator. Here with 19,1% combatant elite: 0,773% this means that 4,05% of players who played pvp ''actively'' and reached combatant in that season reached Elite. We can also say people who reached rival ( 6,4%) can be considered active players then it would still only be at 12% ( 100: 6,4 x 0,77= 12,03) of accounts who actively play to reach Elite. Then again can a player only be considered ''active'' when he already plays in the top 85th percentile? How should the percentile look like for Combatant, Challenger, Rival, Duelist and Elite. Going back to the original 35, 10, and 3% is way to low and will never work, but what %tages would work?
@@no0bbbbWrong, classic just gave devs a reason to only drop real content once or twice an expansion. Now they just shuffle players off to old content in the downtime. Without classic we would get more retail content. Mermaid island is a fking joke and goblin cars wont being any players back who actually care about gameplay.
Almost everyone playing classic has no interest in retail. If they do at all it's very little and very much comes 2nd to Classic. Removing classic would be the end of WoW.
@@Chris-dt8ru If that was true then retail's population wouldn't have plummeted when classic servers were just re-released. Bloodstones went from 7k to 3k overnight. PVP population vanished to hardcore wow.
The entire conversation is missing the forest for the trees. It's not about pvp reward structure, it's about the game structure. The mechanics & grind need to be pruned. If Blizzard isn't already in sunset mode, they are headed for it without a real plan to scale back addons, UI overload, cancerous leveling ez mode, carebear story, bland grinds for .5% number go up rewards, and arbitrary time sinks/traps. Upgrades should be mechanical not just numerical. Block ALL addons. Clean up the UI, improve functionality, redesign the art. Make a good story that doesn't talk about feelings 90% of the damn time. WARcraft. Get a real antagonist with a logical grudge that the audience can relate to. Ditch the garbage time/grind gating. Make the game fun to engage with. Release all content at the same time. Do the work, then release the work. No Mythic raider PTR. No balancing for addons, because they are gone. Just make the game. Stop layering mechanics to the nth degree. Vanilla leveling was the best leveling. Stop making the journey a pitstop. The journey should be just that so players have an opportunity to build memories. Rewarding quests & dungeons that incentivize the time during the journey. It's literally D4 loot in the campaign. you don't care about the item, just the green arrow the addon shows you and the number going up. This isn't how you design a MMO item structure, it's how you design a mobile game. Be willing to cull the bots for real. Screw the income, they destroyed the integrity of the game.
With really no healers around in PvP… I don’t think it’d be a terrible idea to make rated solo que like skirmishes… make it primarily 2v2 DPS unless a healer ques and they que with you. Ques might be faster? Just another idea
@@NarutoUzomaki65 you’re right. However, if majority of players are queuing in solo rated content, why put the same or more effort into brackets like 3v3 anymore? I like 3v3, but I wouldn’t be bummed if they put more effort into other brackets. I’m sure they could come up with a new tournament that’s not 3v3
@@jonathanjauregui8217 Sure, I think they could also design much more BG or even new arena maps, like 2-3 new maps for both BG and arena every season. I also think they could make new gamemodes without destroying the balance of 3s
Rated pvp is fun. A bit complicated for many but I’m enjoying my push. We just need to go to a simpler system where we don’t need sites and guides to tell us how to build our talent trees or play. The game should be intuitive and closer to a TBC pvp environment but with better balancing.
@@arcadialive4265 , IMO, they needed an overhaul, and no other MMORPG has built a better mousetrap to deal with CC effects than the Resolve bar from SWtOR. Not every iteration was perfect, mind you, but the concept allows for you to control the two main variables: 1) how long a player can be CC chained for, 2) what overall percentage of time can a player spend in CC. It does this without having to be concerned about the amount of CC abilities given to each character. Of course just throwing this on top of WoW without rebalancing essentially breaks the game, but any significant change would require it. There are a number of benefits to moving to this system: 1) Making the game MUCH easier to pick up and play for new players 2) Making it easier to spectate and tell what is going on 3) Doesn't require addons 4) Removes DR categories which eliminates confusion as well as makes just about any comp work well together 5) Instead of a nerf bat it gives the PvP team a surgical toolkit as they can tweak how each individual CC effect interacts with the bar (aka how quickly it fills), as well as spec specific adjustments. Even better, such adjustments have ZERO impact on PvE.
I'm primarily a mythic raider, but I decided to try solo shuffle one time. I have 0 rating on my character. I inspected the 5 other people in my lobby and the lowest rating I saw was 1750. To say I got farmed would be an understatement. Solo shuffle doesn't seem to be a new player friendly mode.
Not surprised, it's the worst MMO in PvP&PvE out of the main ones like TESO, BDO, FF, NW and so on. first of all the button bloat is just stupid, in WoW you have 2x,3x,4x,5x the amount of buttons to press while at the same time doing LESS than you can do in other MMO's, why are there so many buttons for the easiest mechanically combat MMO there is? the game is to dated, half the classes have to stand still to cast an ability... incredibly boring. The PvE is the easiest and most bland and boring of all other MMO's and the PvP is just as bad, just wait for healers CD's before you nuke, how boring is that it's not skill based really, obviously someone who knows what they are doing will dominate someone who doesn't but yeah its low skill you can't make plays in wow outside of baiting CD's and line of LoS... The crafting system might as well be removed from the game its so bland. Other MMO's manage to make that into an in depth fun and interesting game loop with progression in itself. Macros should also be bannable like all other games, especially those that are chaining many skills together or animation cancelling. The only reason wow has so many players is because its super easy to play, there are a ton of old players and disabled players who play it where they can't play other MMO's as well as they can in WoW, Hell there's even a blind person who streams WoW. The world of WoW is also the most uninteresting out of them all, there is nothing cool to discover, you don't see things that make you go "wow that looks cool i'm gonna go and explore it" and have a chance to find some cool loot. that just doesn't exist in wow, the best thing you will find is a rock or a herb maybe a fishing spot lol... Oh can't forget the useless chests which hold junk. Other MMO's chest's are great way to make money and find cool gear to use/sell for a good profit or find uniques. WoW is just bad, this is why players are dwindling (about time let it die)
I started playing retail 2 months ago Im 2.9 blitz and 2.2 Solo shuffle on enhance 2k on my ele and 2k on my Windwalker. Its easy to get to this rating right now from what I have experienced
The only way I'd get into rated PvP is if they: -Simplified everyone's toolkits -Removed gear from the equation entirely -Nerfed CC in PvP by making things a slow in movement speed/weapon speed/gcd instead of a full stop on players or at least adding better counterplay to rogues -Make a system that doesn't require you to have an alt to not destroy your season record (unsure on this since I obviously refuse to engage with rated PvP, I've just heard about it while searching) Despite my current loathing, I truly think games should be balanced for PvP/Player Interaction first, and everything else should be shaped around that core experience.
one fix is you use both systems. bracket ranks (rival duelist elite etc) should be relative based on % and you enable mid season rewards to stop people from pushing super early before the total pvp population is saturated best solution i've heard so far is make all rewards available based on participation and make the reward rate higher based on rating. so 50 wins for glad at 2400 30 wins at 2700 and 1000 wins at 1200
I have been banned a total of TWENTY FIVE days this expansion because I REFUSE to stop referring to hunters as huntards ! Been playing since BC and this has never been a problem before the AI customer service took over. Needless to say I am enjoying my time in POE2 while TWW rots.
TBH, when the second Longboi released, I didn't renew my subscription anymore. I was participating in every bracket except for 3v3 on multiple chars and was enjoying the game, but at that point I decided for myself that this expansion was not going to be the return to form that I had hoped for.
Outside of RWF -- Most (if not all) of the big streamers/content creators come from a PVP background. There's clearly viewership and interest from the community, it just needs attention.
What are you talking mage has every escape possible, 3 blinks reverse time, iceblock slow everything. Druid balance keeps shape-shifting and will.never die. Warlocks melt people. Priest never dies, can have 2 dps hitting priest and it will last more than warrior prot or dk. It is completely stupid to see a cloth class being ad tanky as priest is. Casters are so full of tricks and they only die on 1v1 vs themselves, melee players cannot kill casters without healer on his pocket.
Rated PVP is fun, but the issue that has existed since it has been active has been keeping a group. Always having people drop, quit the game, rage quit after one loss, has really made the whole thing not enjoyable. As time goes on, people don't have the time to deal with the grind of keeping up socially in MMO's, which is how you really succeed in PvP (Yes, skill and experience definitely help with success, but social aspect is by far the most important. You aren't soloing your way to the top.)
Didn't even watch the video yet but I see these often. As a complete casual, in the recent years of WoW, the last thing I want to do is go into a match against other people who, odds are that they're much better than me, and get absolutely roflstomped. Not a great feeling. My honest opinion is I don't see absolutely any reason to do pvp these days, there's just no joy in it. I used to PvP back in WoD and Pandaria when it felt pretty good and WAS fun. I even tried it back in SL for a short minute but it just felt.. Bleh. I got to 2500 in SL and basically said "never again" lol. My basic reason for commenting on this is they need to make it actually fun. I know balancing classes is difficult, and even after constant nerfs to some specs and buffs to others, it just flip flops back and forth between meta and non-meta. Just bring JOY back to pvp. How to do it? I'm not sure where to start, cause I'm not in-tune with the pvp scene anymore.
I dropped retail for many reasons. I hate the “evolving meta” philosophy blizzard has adopted; it creates a FOTM meta, which sucks for class specialists. Retail gave me anxiety when I discovered a strong build because I knew the nerf was coming (virtually every class/spec/build I love have been nerf batted) as opposed to classic where I have security that strong abilities/builds will always be strong.
PvP is a dead game mode. No one wants to play it. No one cares about it. (Except for a very small minority) The only way to get regular people to do ANYTHING in wow (except erp) is to give rewards that matter to the characters power and then have that power be used oppressively against people that have less power and can’t avoid it. It’s the only way.
Stomping undergeared players is the only fun left in the game and I'm not even joking. Everything else requires a warcraft PhD. I just wanna chill, not work a second job.
I just went from 2050 to 1900 rating in 2 shuffles. I might have played bad or my teammates, but it will take like 10 shuffles to get that rating back, and i have to win 4 or more. Gtfo
I feel like WoW needs to also look at incentivizing and rewarding PvP while levelling up. Participation may be hampered just because the new players coming in are not encouraged to try it out, and may not even know it's a thing. I get popups for dungeons, raids, delves, and all other PvE content, but I don't recall a "try out battlegrounds or arena" prompts, ever? I'm not sure how much it will help given levelling speed now, but I don't think it will hurt. Alternatively, go the GW2 route and just make PvP scale everyone to max level. In GW2 it works, but I think WoW needs to revitalize its PvP.
No way! You mean to tell me people don’t like 37 minute ques for no rating change!? That’s crazy I don’t understand why numbers would be down
While leveling my rogue through timewalking the ques were over 30 mins each 😂
15:45 rated pvp is really fun. The queue times are just terrible. Nobody has time to sit in front of their computer for 20 minutes just waiting for a queue pop.
I just hit 2.4 in Bgb and 20 minutes would of been a life saver. I get between 50 and 70 minutes que and when you lose because your 2400 but have three 1700 players at 2900 mmr it's crazy to think about but it happens alot.
@@raymondandsweetheart7150 dead game, dead game mode.
Queue times are terrible because they arent having fun.
It should cause it gives you time to work on your hobbies lol
this why i quit rated pvp and sold my account yesterday.
pvp is still fun enough but queue is really makes me exausted.
this is not the last season of expansion. this is the first season of tww lmao
how do you imagine the last season of tww?
sadly wow pvp ahs been obliterated so sad
1. The game has become to complex and complicated for anyone new to understand. 2. No one but sweaty veterans still are playing. 3. So many other great games out there to play.
what other games out here would you recommend? I easily get to 2k, but then hit a wall.
@@smackedu1049 guild wars 2 is a nice pvp
@ depends on what your looking for? Are you looking for strictly mmorpg PvP, arpg, or just something chill?
@@smackedu1049 I will play path of Exile II
Other great games? Mmos? No. Shooting? Which ones has rating and doesn't have toxicity and also dying like OW?
No sane person is going to sit through 25 minutes per Que just to get farmed by some turbo-sweat Meta Slaves who have been doing arenas for 16 years. Only to hear them talk crap on their stream. Nobody.
that is a you problem .if you look for streams to feel bad about yourself
When you stick to your class and not follow FOTM, it's unfun to hit like a wet noodle while getting slammed by feral/BM/etc...
Yeah, i just said that exact same thing. And the issue with trying to play FOTM is that, let's say FOTM is warrior.. and you are new to a warrior, there is no way in hell you are going to beat people who their actual one trick class is a warrior. So it's like, even when you try to play the FOTM, you still get stomped out unless you play 500 games on the class to be actually proficient at the class. It's just a weird dynamic.
@@modrn_ Also, maybe shit like Warrior BM hunter etc wouldnt be fun to someone playing enchant shaman, frost dk or similar
Sounds like a skill issue
Retail doesn’t feel like an mmo anymore, it’s a lobby game. Unlike other lobby games, where que times are anywhere from instant to 2-3 minutes for the majority, we’re often stuck with 15-30+ as dps or forced out of the role we prefer to play. If you sit down for a 4 hour session, which is decent playtime for those that work and or have kids, we’re just not getting many games in. I have no idea how to boost participation but I feel like increasing rewards won’t increase participation to the level that is needed. It may help some but I don’t think it’s a pure remedy.
This is exactly what I think about mythic+ and raid as well. It's mostly separate from the general game world, could be perfectly played as a lobby game.
Can’t fix never coming out with shadowlands. Can’t fix never coming out with bfa. Can’t fix it bro. No amount of system changes, participation, nothing. No amount of anything will get this game in a good state. If the story sucks the game sucks
Exactly. Wanted to start pvping again after an hiatus from WoW, but even casual bg's take around 10 mins to pop. I have no time for that.
Honestly, most dad gamers don't have four hours a night to play. I'd say it's more like two. I also think PvP participation is going down because a lot of players are simply too old and busy to keep up with it. If you think about it, this is way more complex that a basic FPS game like CoD because all the different specs/classes do different things. What working dad has time to not only learn their class/spec, but enough about every other class/spec to be able to counter them? This was a bit easier when the game was less complex, but now? Nobody has that kind of time. So WoW PvP has become extremely casual unfriendly, and all you have is the hyper sweats while all the "normal" people "retire" to either just random BGs, only PvE, or back to Classic.
PvP was sacrificed at the alter of raid complexity, and this is the result.
that problem you highlighted is kind of created by players in a lot of scenarios and it gets seen in other games too. everyone wants to play DPS and so eventually queues slow down to a halt because you have 20 dps players for every 1 person wanting to play tank/heal etc. idk how you solve this issue either because it doesnt seem like one that blizzard can easily fix either since even when tanks/healers are OP, people simply dont want to play the role. League of Legends has this issue too but they solved it with autofill which you see a lot at certain rankings where some roles just get auto filled 24/7
Im just happy that no matter how long I go without playing wow, when I come back good ole Venruki is still here
Ven has made this exact video 100x 😅
Your perspective is odd to me and seems like cognitive dissonance.
The same comfort you feel, I see Stockholm syndrome. I see someone trapped in their own mind.
@bhaines2209 flawed logic. Op doesn't play and venruki plays for money
@@teddypicker8799 do you think him playing for money makes him more or less free to choose whether he actually wants to play or not?
Also, OP does play the game. He literally said he’s back and it feels good when he comes back and Ven is still around. If he’s not back, how would he notice Ven is still around?
You’re low iq.
@@bhaines2209 Stockholm syndrome is someone getting kidnapped developing affection to the kidnappers, completely out of touch word to use here
I just grind out full conquest gear and spam random bgs for fun. Remember just doing things because they are fun?
I m there, the only fun thing to do imo
PVP was awesome before arena came around. The og maps like WSG, AB and AV need to mean something again. If they would stop putting arena and rated on super high petatstols and made pvp gear powerful in the open world like it was, things would be better.
Yes when your gear made a difference there was something to play for.
Now it's just like you are collecting mogs.
I think its the reason why i can not be bothrred too.@texasbradley
@@texasbradley Agree, WPVP and BG's are what I prefer, but Blizzards prioritizing arena for best gear made me not want to play. I then discovered MOBA's and never came back to WOW's pvp.
Grinding Gear in PvP is not fun. PvP should be skill not farming like PvE. Make a system with no stuff in PvP anf only cosmetic/gold/resources reward an ppl will start PvP for fun again
Well when you win 4 games and lose one and you are at the same rating you started at speaks for itself.
They didn't even mention my 2 favorite stats:
- 87% of players in SS are below 1800 rating and have received ZERO rewards this season!
- For many specs the R1 cutoff (top 0.1% of the ladder) is BELOW 2400 ... you will get rank 1 before you reach elite!
As venruki pointed out, when WoW incentivizes playing only for the last 2 weeks of the season, then participation is bound to get decline ...
A thing i always felt wierd like is that in terms of rewards in M+ about 55% of active players in M+ have gotten the Mount + Keystone Master, 40% have reached Keystone Hero, which unlocks the aditional Colors for the Tier Sets ( what you unlock at 2400 in pvp) that seems way more achievable than needing to be in the top 15% to get the Elite set, top 1,5% to get the Tabbard etc. no wonder participation dies down after 1800
Rated PVP is fun (to me) BUT I can easily see how 96% of the player base wouldn’t like it. As a healer you spend 85% of the game CC’d and unable to move or act, you have over 50 keybinds just play (compared to league of legends 4 buttons), and there’s so much game knowledge you need to even start playing it.
That last comment was right, most people don’t find it fun. Adding FOMO rewards can only help so much.
Yep. If they really wanted to improve PvP, they'd simply make it it's own separate game mode, drastically reduce the number of buttons, and let people jump right in without leveling or gearing.
Edit: one of the biggest things holding back WoW PvP is the vestigial link to the RPG side of the game. The only way it can move forward is to finally sever that link.
@seanwilliams7655 I posted this above but I'm curious what u think of this idea for WOW PVP...
I'm no expert but what do you think about a stripped down "honor mode" style of pvp. You have the lore that heroes don't use their full power om each other because it's not honorable. So you have players use a stripped down toolkit like a mini-spec.
A mini-spec is choosing like 5 or 6 abilities and that's all you have for the match. This offers chances to create super niche builds, lots of load outs to try, limit button bloat for new players, less visual clutter, meaningful choices between mobility, cc and damage and greater variety in team comps.
@@andrewconstantino6336 I think it's something they should consider. Maybe a good idea for another Plunderstorm style thing.
you know if you based the rating brackets on percentage, and used the entire playerbase as the basis for the percentages, you could incentivize pvp simply by the fact that nobody is playing pvp.. say you have a rating reward for being in the top 5% of ALL players, not just pvpers.. that would mean its easier to obtain when less people are pvping.. because 5% of the total playerbase may verywell be more than the entire pvp playerbase at this point.. so such a reward would be up for grabs to literally any player who wants to try pvp, even if its their first time.
locking rewards behind a 5% bracket which only counts the pvp playerbase is what kills incentive.
there are no active pvpers, so 5% of the pvp playerbase is 0.25% of the total playerbase.. if even that.
good luck selling that to new players.
interesting suggestion, bc I'm sure that would absolutely draw in a massive crowd over from the PvE side
Exactly. Fully agree with you
great idea tbh!
I like this!
As a returning and basically new player I can tell you what got me through jumping through all the hoops and learning the itemization, my class, and all the subsystems of the progression was the satisfaction of realizing 'my' build. So you can imagine how deflated I was that some of the embellishments I tried to use bugged out and give me the wrong stats or don't even apply to my items at all EVEN THOUGH THE CRAFTING TABLE SAYS I CAN, AND STILL SAYS SO 2 MONTHS LATER. And then GMs telling me that there's no way they can reimburse the item, only that they know about the issue and are working to fix it asap. Still waiting.
I don't remember wow being this buggy, I understand 10 years+ probably adds a lot to a codebase, so things are hard to track. But it seems like unless you level how everyone else is leveling, playing the same classes and spec everyone is playing, building the same items and enchants/embellishments everyone else is using, and using the same subsystems everyone else is using. You're likely to run into things that just don't work. Seems like they only devote time fixing bugs that'll impact the mainstream endgame players. And the input lag, even on low MS, all kinds of different settings... it was never this bad back in the day. Press a button, ability goes off, hear the sfx, 1 second later you see the damage. Is this what an end-of-life mmo feels like?
I mean... when the game comes down to who can manage and read a stack of add ons better , and each match feels like a battle of numerics it's really not fun Anymore. Remember when you would waste a global on a poly because you didn't track it right in your head? Yeah....neither does anyone else. The types of add ons allowed in wow would be considered cheating in pretty much every other game out there, and its unacceptable to allow 3rd party mods in a AAA live service game that not only has a box fee, but a monthly sub. Changing your UI is 1 thing, seeing other people's CDs... that's like wall hacking in a FPS
When the BG bug happened, I lost 400 rating in rated bgs in two rounds I was kicked from. I am not fighting back to earn that back.
Bro Retail WoW in general is cooked
@@GardenisLife but it is true, M+ is extremely bad this expansion, and well pvp is just not even looked at by blizz anymore so its basically considered dead.
@@GardenisLife you have no idea what your talking about , this expac launch balance was miserable , everyone complain about m+ and the wow balance.
@@GardenisLifeNo man, most of my friends are M+ players and its even worse than PVP. The raid balancing is also horrid as well apparently with one of the last bosses being EXTREMELY poorly designed.
Sounds tasty, yum 😋 hehe
Ehh there is problems but, there is still a ton of people still playing. M+ has way too much burst damage and our health pools are too low for the amount of damage so they gotta do one or another and either nerf the dmg or raise the health pool. Still I’m glad it is challenging that way those classic players can stay over there and not make peoples keys shit.
If rated didn't have fomo rewards, I definitely wouldn't do it. I'd be doing chill pvp like random BGs and WPVP instead
You're in the minority. World pvp and bgs are a joke.
@@ttt69420 I disagree. BGs can be something chill to do. And it is no pressure. If you got just 1 hour to play it's not bad.
@@ttt69420 so are you mr 5%
@ttt69420
This is the most delusional cope I’ve ever seen. Nobody cares about wow rated PvP, that’s the entire issue.
@ttt69420 not what the data days.
In my guild (over 100 active people) only 3 of us play PvP (regularly and only me was able to achieve 2,4k rat) all since DF... If I ask why people don't even try to play PvP, I could help them, the answers are usually "no reason", "classes are too complicated for PvP", "too many things to track, too confusing", "too long queues, waste of time"... Hard to argue with that... I always play wow because of PvP... and lately I play less and less and less...
Edit: Sorry the game is not fun, mainly because it's almost impossible to get any games played... "normal" people (non streamers) don't have time to wait in queues... After work/evening wanna play some games, on Friday I was able to play 3 solo shuffles and 1 blitz in 3hours... so... nah thanks... played an another game next night
well said brother
I like new world for this reason. Queues even pop in early morning. No rated PvP yet and it is a niche game, but damn that PvP is addictive and fun.
Seems all logical to me: They decided to put in juicy rewards at 1800 and 1950 rating, where going higher, even for 2100 duelist, is not only pretty hard with the current deflated situation, but also a timewaste, because unrewarding. Going higher and for glad is just impossible, so even strong people and pvp veterans are incentivized to hit their 1950, maybe 2100, and then quit... that happens when your elo system feels like a barrel of poop from the stoneage and pushing up that barrel brings you literally no rewards. If they don't fix it now, they'll kill pvp in wow soon forever.
I used to be an avid PvPer back in Burning Crusade and Wrath. Got pretty close to 2k rating in BC, stopped PvPing after WoD, tried to get back in during SL and Dragonflight......holy moly. WAYYY too complex. In order to actually enjoy PvP you have to understand it, it's not like PvM where you can go do open world content and smack down a mob who has 1-2 abilities. You've got to learn every relevant ability in the game for every spec...which amounts to like 200+ spells. Then you have to learn which spells hit the hardest, when someone is in a CD window, learn the PvP talents, setup several addons to track information....the barrier to entry for PvP isnt just a wall, it's a whole universe you have to learn. AND THEN, all you've done is put yourself on even-footing (in terms of knowledge) as all the people who've been grinding it for 6months-10+years. Good luck making better use of your newly found info than those people.
why should I queue to get farmed from backpedalling classes that are high rated just because blizzard can't balance anything
As a long time player / viewer. Ive been contemplating on the idea of a "gladiator saddle" to receive some of the old glad mounts. Might bring back a solid chunk of players, and encourage others to work for a mount they always wanted/ missed
Yeah, basically you get the item and can spend it on whichever one you want. Good idea.
@naejimba right, gives a huge incentive to keep playing at high rating besides the r1 title.
Or instead of a direct old glad mount copy, maybe like a new recolour of each expansion for the gladiator saddle grind. Easy bonus reward for the higher end. Now if only I could get glad 🤣
Its become a mount simulator Disney game😂 let it die, it will never be the same it once was.
@@Lito-u4b I mean I still really enjoy the game, and all the mounts 😅
Got back to wow for TWW (after not playing since bfa). I was hyped to get into PvP again but I got really disappointed really fast. After only 3 games of solo shuffle, it was already taking 15-20mins to get a game. I thoght I'd just go do some 2s for quick queues, it's legit impossible to find a normal person to play with in the Group finder. Everyone is asking for 2.4k xp just to push 1.8-2k rating. Wow pvp became such a joke.
For me the situation is just discouraging. I put some effort into improving, and went from from 1600 (end season) to 1800 (early mid season). When I found out that everyone else in my peer group easily surpassed my rating just by waiting till end season, i stopped playing. It just invalidated my feeling of accomplishment.
sorry you got screwed gamer bro. blizzard now believes everybody is a winner. participation trophies for everybody
@@scienz0220how else do you get people to play?
@@ChromaticEagle is this a serious reply or a sarcastic one
@@scienz0220 probably serious. If the problem is not enough people are playing, you gotta get people to at least try it out.
@seanwilliams7655 if your pants don't fit, so you paint them green, do you need to try them on again to see if they fit ?
I think a lot of people want to pvp but just can’t get into games. I had an idea the other day where i thought they could bring back brawlers guild but allow players to fight each other 2v2 or 3v3 just as a time filler between arena qs. Or if they could make a strictly PvP zone kinda like cyrodil in eso. They could make objectives to take like they had in BC and earn rewards through that.
+300-400 MMR injection needs to happen now or I fear the game will be too far behind in PvP Population to ever make a significant comeback. Season 1 is always vital to an expansion's reputation and interest (Its hard to win people back to an expansion they quit early, and these newer expansions feel much less significant in terms of new content).
The fact that the 1st page on the wow leaderboards is upper 2500-2800 CR is ridiculous. It's usually 2800-3400 CR 1st page (Usually higher averages in S1 of an xpac), which im sure is extremely demotivating for people trying to earn their first 2K/2200/elite/gladiator.
For reference I feel I could get gladiator now if I went all in, but for the same effort that got me around 2700 CR in Dragonflight. No one wants to work harder to be 300 CR lower, despite feeling like they are improving at the game.
You’re right about everything but they aren’t going to inject mmr. People will unsubscribe then they will fix it in season 2 after everyone is gone.
@@zach1122 I appreciate it, they already did a 300 MMR Injection roughly about a month or two earlier. I think it's likely to pretty up their end of season numbers, and create momentum going into Season 2. They just dont want people to earn their rewards until end of season because they know people will unsub after, so its better to artificially block progression until the new season starts, that way there is a new start and more content to repeat the cycle over and over.
Even if they boost +400mmr, it's not enough for healers to come back. I am done for this season. My time on earth is worth more than this :D
Is not about MMR at all. No injection needed
That would make me 2.7k. And I definitely shouldn't be 2.7k rated lmao
Lowering the requirement for the weapon illusion was actually all the motivation I needed to participate in pvp
I went to 2.2k for the weapons, wich got lowered as well but ye it's useless to go any further
What was it lowered to? Isn't it 2400? It was only 2200 last time I played...
@@OWlsfordshire 1950
@@OWlsfordshire as he reads from point 5 at 10:45min it was actually lowered to 2.100 i only thaught it was 2.200 my bad ^^
Solo shuffle ruined what was left of the already limited LFG community
Indeed it did
Yea made it better I can actually get games now instead of getting kicked for losing once
I’ve happily played between 1600-1900 rating since legion logging 100+ games on at least 2-4 toons each season. A huge part of that was because I would actually make friends through games, both w’s and l’s and just enjoying hammering out matches. But SS just removed such a large portion of chill people who want to just enjoy games, who used to be there in LFG at a presence or frequency much much higher than today. LFG isn’t the same
100%
@ honestly I’ve been having fun with shuffle and have made a few friends along the way
Can I just say - a LOT of us think of Retail WoW as a seasonal activity game. We have a list of objectives, we achieve them, then we go and play any of the other versions of WoW that exist. Like Classic, Anniversary, Hardcore, Season of Discovery, Cataclysm.
It's NOT that no one is playing. It's that we're just not playing the Retail version of the game.
Thank you for reading my comment.
The problem with Retail that I’ve noticed is that if there’s no insane reward behind a certain game mode, not many people play. What does that say about the game? We’re not playing cause the game is actually fun, we play for rewards. There’s a crucial issue in the foundation of Retail.
I really want to get into WoW PvP but as someone who does not much too much WoW experience (outside of watching streams) in general I feel so overwhelmed. I think having an easier path of introduction or somewhat of a roadmap in the game that teaches me how to PvP would make me take the leap to get into it.
It's a big learning curve, where you add knowledge from time to time. Most definitely want to learn proper pve before adding some layers on top of that like positioning, targeting dynamically, keeping track on focus target or DR
Probably want to avoid abbreviations and jargon with someone unfamiliar with the game lol. Either way the participation in pvp is so low there is no incentive for blizzard to create an entry point. They have been slowly letting it die out and it's almost there. I'll be surprised if rated pvp exists in the next expansion.
?? What do you mean teaches you how to pvp? Just play the game if ure having fun and you will learn slowly and naturally. Why do you want guides for everything man? Play the game,have fun and you will learn by yourself . If youre not having fun, dont play and dont force it.
@ I understand learning Arena itself in that manner. Do you realize how confusing actually getting to ranked arena is? The gear requirements? The game itself teaches you none of that, without going to a 3rd party source I would have no idea about conquest gear or the PvP vendors in general. As a new player this makes the barrier to entry seem extremely high. Just to be able to start playing and then still have no idea how to actually play arena
Blizzard has totally failed this season both in pvp and in mythic+.
Lfg for both is practically semi dead. The mythic + community is in a turmoil and no one wants to push because there is no rewards, no incentive.
Rated pvp is suffering from major rating deflation, which blizzard fails to fix.
I think most of the people that quit playing arena and m+ don’t unsub but rather just play smth else and log in for some random mog run or whatever. So blizzard doesn’t care if you are ok with the content - they just look at the sub numbers and if they are ok, business is good.
I don't understand how having bronze/silver/... ranks will solve the participation problem, or rating problem. Any explanation ?
Part of the problem is that it just sucks getting into PvP at all, and when you do, you get ballooned to 1800 and get absolutely shitcanned by 2400 players on an alt.
A "medal" system would involve placement games, those placement games would get you to a more accurate representation of your skill level, you play against people closer to your skill level.
Right now, if I start PvP since I haven't played all season, I'm going to start around 1800, get shitwrecked in my half green half purple pvp gear and probably quit. The barrier to entry is obscene, and the amount of people i recognize as they climb with an alt when their main is 2400 is staggering.
As a not pro PvP player, I play these guys and it's not a game, it's an ass whooping.
@@Falthadrating should be account wide let these glads fight other glads on their alts.
not gonna lie, we kinda ended up at this video alot faster than i predicted like 6 vids back.
The healer population problem is clearly the main bottleneck to solo shuffle queue times and it could be solved with a bit of drastic but necessary action.
Players simply don’t want to main healer, but does that mean they would never tolerate playing healer? No. Plenty of other games like League use an “Autofill” system that occasionally forces one dps main to play a healer(in League, support) in order to make queue times faster.
Blizzard may not be able to literally force players onto a healer because of technical issues (the game would have to make you log out of one character and onto a healer for which you may not even have keybinds set up). But what they could do is simply track the number of solo shuffle healer games you play and give you an account wide buff to put you a bit ahead in the queue on your dps main depending on how many healer games you’ve played on that account. This system could also give you more rewards for your main dps if you play healer occasionally. It should also instantly give you the same ilvl quality of gear of your stat selection for that healer character corresponding to the ilvl of your highest ilvl pvp character.
There will always be some players who refuse to ever play healer, but a system like this needs to exist if we ever want the queue times to go down to a reasonable level. And it helps to reward the people most willing to help everyone (by playing healer sometimes).
TWW has serious issue all around. M+ is a disaster as well.
Who cares about M + if something op carries you
@Vabros007First, stop eating glue. Second, if you have to ask why people care that content is good, seek help.
I spent all season playing my dk, over 1000 rounds trying to climb to 1800. I was stuck at 1790ish till mid Nov when the inflation changed. Same with my disc priest, 1000 rounds played and hit 1800 after being stuck at 1700. I loaded my DH last week, several weeks after the inflation kicked in and I won by placement games, queues at 1900 mmr for 30 rounds and hit 1800 in like 2 days. My friends quit about 3 weeks into the season because they couldn't climb and they're gonna resub when the new patch hits and get their games in. Don't get me wrong, I had a good time playing, I learned a lot, but the beginning of the season was a real struggle and the end of the season feels easy.
1800 - Bad Armor Mog
1950 - Uncool Enchant
2100 - Mediocre Weapon Mog
2400 - Tabard
(I forget what the cloak is)
3v3 is to frustrating because blizzard doesn't know how to balance classes and the mount sucks. Shuffle is fine as long as the players on your team have a brain. (8/10 times they don't). Blitz can be fun but you have to rely on 7 other bots to be programmed correctly. RBGs don't exist. 2s are honor/conquest farms.
Long story short. Get 2100. Stop playing.
the only way classes should be balanced is 1v1
Just hit 2200 for the first time this season, 45 min queue times! its brutal
No it's not shocking, nobody likes arena style gameplay and over the years they've grown resentful that they were forced to play that way when what we all really liked about WoW's PVP was the part that the "competitive scene" hates -- Large scale, siege style, BGs and open world. The only shocking thing is that the "old blood arena establishment" players still don't get it. Look at Plunderstorm - Again, large scale, open world, Fresh. Time and time again the audience expresses what they want but Blizzard listens to literal arena junkies for their feedback instead. Then Plunderstorm comes out, and it's the most popular PVP mode to date. Crazy right.
Lots of people like arenas. A lot of PvPers also don't want to do PvE BGs, or "epic" (lmao) BGs. Plunderstorm is a completely different game so can't be compared. It's like comparing WoW to Starcraft: a pointless comparison.
Plunderstorm isnt remotely comparable to large scale open world pvp/bg's. you more often face one team max 2 at a time in plunder, making it more like an arena 2v2 or 2v2v2 until you get to the very end
My friends and I were playing at the start but it took Bliz over a month to fix the % progress for the Vicious Mount. We all stopped doing PvP after the month mark.
Love you ven, but you’ve made tons of these videos and the devs don’t care to retain the pvp population so we’ve moved on
Former multi r1 20x glad player here. Quit the game a month after s1 officially launched. Everything you described in the last few videos about wow has been the nail on the head. In fact … you’ve been saying it all for years for several expansions, blizz just doesn’t care to update stuff or overhaul it asap so ppl like myself fall off and quit caring.
I quit wow back in Shadowlands after a being a loyal fan since original TBC.
What really killed/Is killing WOW is ACTIVISION greedness and Blizzard lack of respect to the playerbase and loyal fans.
I do not wish ill to current WOW players, but i MUST advice them:
Quit NOW ! Go out, travel , or even play other games on PS or XBOX ... WOW will always make you sad
quit in SL, i prefered the setting to something nice, happy go lucky like dragonflight so i avoided dragonflight, seen they are not recovering but doubling trippling quadruppling down on thesame mistakes in order to appease the lowest of the low in the community. The filth, the scum, the casuals who do not want to learn to play, do not like challengee, do not like progression and pretty much dont like WOW in general...
As an arena player why play the game when the only ladder with gladiator is 3v3 and its has rank ones at 1900 every game with 0 new rewards baked into the game or development. Players don’t invest in games where the developers don’t invest in the player base. It’s a simple as that.
Well tell me when they have 10 buttons to press like in classic and not 100 and 50 cds ..
Less buttons is not more fun. Look at what a disaster WoD was… most boring pvp ever.
@@MrAlexMonaco22 Wod to this day has more enjoyable pvp than TWW and DF combined.
@@MrAlexMonaco22 less buttons would probably have way more participation.
we're just perpetually stuck in the 1700-1900.
4.8% is optimistic. Only 1.35% of accounts have the Vicious Skyflayer mount (the saddle one, not the glad mount) from this season, I think that's a more accurate measure of the actual ACTIVE (at least for 50 wins) players.
True. So many got 1600 for the token and stopped.
Because it's not PvP. It's a button-bloat, PVE rotation style with 300 addons on top of it. Nobody is skilling at anything, it's just AoE spam and cycle through 9 defensive and offensive CDs and after 10 minutes and there's a lot of dampening, somebody dies. Rinse and repeat. Not interesting at all. Kill button bloat, kill 45 button rotations, have individual spells do something to the opponent, kill addons, everybody will be back. And kill AoE damage at about 95%.
I'm no expert but what do you think about a stripped down "honor mode" style of pvp. You have the lore that heroes don't use their full power om each other because it's not honorable. So you have players use a stripped down toolkit like a mini-spec.
A mini-spec is choosing like 5 or 6 abilities and that's all you have for the match. This offers chances to create super niche builds, lots of load outs to try, limit button bloat for new players, less visual clutter, meaningful choices between mobility, cc and damage and greater variety in team comps.
That's better suggestion than I've heard from most so called experts. I think lots of "experts" wouldn't agree, but blizz catering to them is the reason pvp is dying anyway. Causal audience is what makes and breaks every game
Sounds like you're describing plunderstorm.
@richardditty5318 I have never tried it, is it any good?
You should see the amount of people playing classic hardcore
Tried to push 1800 in solo shuffle last week on my holy paladin, Got to 1750 and lost 6-0 to a sus asf looking boost group. Been playing Hogwarts Legacy since then and actually enjoying myself playing games again
That's the point of gaming, to be enjoyable. Sounds like wow isn't for you anymore, which is ok. Glad you found something you like to play.
@@quizkill Spot on dude, If your not having fun anymore then whats the point
Playing healer sucks. Everything rests upon you and if you happen to play against some no lifer who just created a new character you’re in for a miserable time. I’m gonna keep playing classic for now.
Its sad, because I like retail pvp maybe most of all expansions. I play many specs thanks to good gearing system and all are fun and to me class balance is good. I also like SS and blitz, because I don´t have teammates and I just want to que, without hours of looking in LFG. I agree with that problems and I hope they solve it, because rest of the game is really fun now.
This is a problem for all of WoW whether its PvP or PvE due to a system that is heavily based around gated content to try retain as much subs as possible, they could fix the issue by adding a Renown system similar to the first plunderstorm to both PvE and PvP as this will just increase the numbers of people participating. The model that Blizzard is currently using is similar to how gym subscriptions work as they don't want you playing the game 24/7 as that isn't cost effective for them they want you to log on every week for a few hours and log of which they have stated many of times before as long as you remain subbed and they can report higher sub numbers then everyone is happy but meanwhile playing this version of WoW is miserable.
"they could fix the issue by adding a renown" you could genuinely not be more lost about the problems that world of warcraft PVP in 2025 has as an entirety. you thinking adding a reputation is going to revert a decade of decline? in the most respectful way possible you really need to think more broadly about this
@@atSeebs If we are talking about Participation then and if this Renown could only be required from 3v3 then yes this would definitely increase the numbers of players inside 3v3, people are still playing PvP the problem lies when you keep creating different brackets that are also easier ways of obtaining the desired reward that they are aiming for, so when we are talking about fixing the participation, not fixing the balance or MMR system then this is one of the ways that they will be able to bring players back to playing the 3v3 rating bracket. They have done things like this to increase participation like when in shadowlands S1 they had rbgs give a extra 400 conquest each week while im not really a fan of that previous system i think a system that allows players to work towards the FOMO rewards this will definitely increase the participation and also prevent waiting until the last few weeks of the season to start playing and whilst i'm offering solutions you nowhere in your reply is there any talk of what they can do to solve the problem?
If blizzard said they were getting rid of pvp tomorrow, 99% of the playerbase would not care.
I did glad every expansion (not every season) since TBC and since Dragonflight i deleted my friend list and only solo snuffle, i play WoW the same i play League of legend, i log i queue i play. I remember waiting in lfg for hours to find players to push with, it was a nightmare, they can create the best glad mount ever it doesn’t matter i won’t play 3v3 ever again.
They need to revamp the lfg system and add actual incentives to pvp that are worth grinding for
nothing will change until Ion goes.
Not really surprised. There are so many other good games that have come out recently. And retail blizzard don't listen to their players.
true that, they only listen to try hard professional streamers
@@KennyFalmouth506 they listened to them, and to hardcore raiders. Many of the current devs were hardcore raiders themselves back in the day. Chief among them Ion. So of course that's who they're going to cater the game to.
@@seanwilliams7655 I don't see the connection between hardcore raiders vs hardcore pvpers, after all the main issue is that PVP is dying
@@KennyFalmouth506 I think the increase in complexity is tied to mythic raiding and the hardcore raiding community, and that increase in complexity has made it harder to become good at PvP because you need to know not only your class, but the other classes well enough to counter them. Casual players don't have that kind of time, and so the bottow 70% of the PvP ladder has been basically cut off.
The most surprising part of this is that theres even a pvp player left to make this kind of thread lmao.
Look at that! SL season 2 (where rating was inflated) had the MOST players achieveing 2400. It's the last time I ever felt I had a realistic chance at gladiator. Now I dont even fuckin bother. Rating is so deflated whats the point? Que into mutliglads at 1500-1600 lmao
Hi Venruki, long time viewer (12+ years) I remember seeing a video very similar to this, maybe 2 years ago. I don't play the game anymore due to issues like this, but I lurk around from time to time to see if its improving. Disappointing to see nothing has changed and in fact probably gotten worse.
Remove all Addons from the arena. One of the biggest gate keeping everyone I know who tried but won’t pvp is having to set up their up differently to play in the arena from their world quest, m+ and raiding ui, as well as must have addons to even stand a chance. Next add some arena tutorial modes / training modes as this will take the pressure off of the ranked system for them. 3rd, add small rewards that happen bi- weekly for participating. (Emotes, toys, animations, anything really). 4th add some bloody balance fixes faster. Nothing like classes (currently looking at you feral) that’s soo dominant people feel they have to reroll or play it because everything else pales in comparison. I’m in Eu and fed up of seeing the same few classes or even comps that are in 3/4 games at least. And these tend to last most of the season. Be more on the ball.
The addons thing, I can't agree all the way. I've seen Tosan played with the barebones/default arena UI and still get RankOne/Glad, I myself have always gotten 2100+(I've Never tried pushing Glad though) using GladiatorLossa, Lose control and OmniCD(this one I started using it when they introduced SoloShuffle) in their default settings but the people you addressed that already have a preferred setup/Addons/UI for the things they find important like WorldQuests, openworld content, PvE cant even bother to setup some basic arena stuffs like the ones I'm using? Maybe they don't deserve to do well in PvP or something else that they don't want to commit 15mins to setup, I and a lot of others were fine before we used the addons, but they sure made it easier.
AWC... what WoW needs is a special olympics version so the rest of us can get some acclaim rather than just being there for the skilled played to feed upon on their way back to another AWC
It's almost like they need to fix the fucking PVP system and have needed to for years.
pvp was pretty ok in TBC, thats the last time it was really ok... Then holinka came
I like the current balance, but the only reason I push blitz is for the hope of a r1 title. If there was a 'glad mount' for 50 games above 2400 in shuffle and blitz, a lot more people would play.
Blizzard should hire ven and supatease
Rated pvp needs wayyyyyy more rewards. More cosmetics and mounts. Maybe a PvP *battle pass* like New World does. Something to keep people engaged after getting their elite set.
Game is way to hard and complicated for 98% of the player base
In these calculations some asumptions are taken: ( numbers are taken from data for azeroth)
1. People are considered ''Acitve Accounts'' in a Season when they have reached Keystone Explorer or Combatant 1 ( the earliest achievments to get for each respective Gamemode)
2. Keystone Explorer is considered Equal to Combatant 1 ( as they are both the earliest achievments)
3. Keystone Hero and Elite are considered the same ( as they are considered the same in the achievment which requires 2400+ Rating or "500+ Mythic rating)
4. since the numbers and data is taken from data for azeroth these are not 100% accurate but show a general trend
In the current Season War Within season 1:
Keystone Explorer is at 24%
Combatant 1 at 4,5%
this means there are on average 5,3x more active m+ players then pvp players
Keystone Master which already rewards the Mount is at 13,6%
Challanger which awards you well some armor pieces is at 3,9% = 3,9x 5,3 =
Keystone Hero which is equal to Elite ( due to the achievment for more visuals on your sets):
Keystone Hero is at 6,6%
Elite is at 0,12% now if we calculate this with the participation of M+ players so times 5,3x 0,12 we are at = 0,636% or in other words it is about 10,4 times more characters ( if participation would be the same) would be able to get to 2500m+ rating then 2400 Rating in wow pvp.
Or if we take the bare numbers by themselfes for 1 Elite Account there are 55 Accounts that have Keystone Hero. And if the current participation would be the same for pvp and m+ there would be 1 Elite every 10,4 Keystone Heroes.
Dragonflight Season 1
Keystone Explorer 45%
Combatant 1 at 15%
Challanger at 10%
Keystone Master 31%
Keystone Hero 18%
Elite at 1% if we calculate that up it would be 3% if the same amount of people played pvp than m+ ( which would end up with the same amount of participation of accounts) there would be 1 Elite player for every 6 Keystone Heroes. And this is even the closest one of the seasons with Solo Shuffle being so hugely high with inflation.
Dragonflight season 3
Keystone Explorer: 37,8%
Combatant 1: 8,6%
which means on average 4,4x times more people participated in m+ then in pvp.
Elite: 0,318%
Keystone Hero: 24.4%
0,318 x 4,4 (then the player base would be on the same size) we would end up at 1,4% in this season it is 17,5 Keystone Heroes for every Elite player
Out of these snapshots, we can see that:
1. Keystone Explorer / Keystone Master seem to be about the same % wise as Combatant and Challenger with Playerbase Accounts adjusted.
2. way more people who ''actively play'' and reach Keystone Explorer in a season seem to reach Keystone Hero, Ranging from: 40 - 64,5%
3. for elite it seems that around 2,6% to 6,6% of ''active accounts'' can reach it.
So far it seems that the highest M+ achievment Keystone Hero ( which rewards the Additional Apperances and thus can be considered equal) is about 10 to 15 times more likely to be achieved than to Reach Elite as an active player in the respective gamemode.
A big question for me than comes up to why this is the case? And if this should be the case?
To show how tricky the queston is: Battle for Azeroth Season 4 is considered one of the easiest seasons to ever reach Elite or Gladiator. Here with 19,1% combatant elite: 0,773% this means that 4,05% of players who played pvp ''actively'' and reached combatant in that season reached Elite. We can also say people who reached rival ( 6,4%) can be considered active players then it would still only be at 12% ( 100: 6,4 x 0,77= 12,03) of accounts who actively play to reach Elite. Then again can a player only be considered ''active'' when he already plays in the top 85th percentile?
How should the percentile look like for Combatant, Challenger, Rival, Duelist and Elite. Going back to the original 35, 10, and 3% is way to low and will never work, but what %tages would work?
people are considered active accounts once they log in to the game... thats it...
It’s insanely stressful for me to try to find a team last minute to get a glad at the end of the season. I’d rather just say fuck the game
The only thing that's going to save Retail wow is killing all the Classic servers, but that just may kill wow altogether.
The only thing that saved retail wow was the classic servers
@@no0bbbbWrong, classic just gave devs a reason to only drop real content once or twice an expansion. Now they just shuffle players off to old content in the downtime. Without classic we would get more retail content. Mermaid island is a fking joke and goblin cars wont being any players back who actually care about gameplay.
Retail is not even an RPG nor an MMO anymore. I'll take the feeling of adventure with others, thank you very much.
Almost everyone playing classic has no interest in retail. If they do at all it's very little and very much comes 2nd to Classic. Removing classic would be the end of WoW.
@@Chris-dt8ru If that was true then retail's population wouldn't have plummeted when classic servers were just re-released. Bloodstones went from 7k to 3k overnight. PVP population vanished to hardcore wow.
The entire conversation is missing the forest for the trees. It's not about pvp reward structure, it's about the game structure. The mechanics & grind need to be pruned. If Blizzard isn't already in sunset mode, they are headed for it without a real plan to scale back addons, UI overload, cancerous leveling ez mode, carebear story, bland grinds for .5% number go up rewards, and arbitrary time sinks/traps.
Upgrades should be mechanical not just numerical.
Block ALL addons.
Clean up the UI, improve functionality, redesign the art.
Make a good story that doesn't talk about feelings 90% of the damn time. WARcraft. Get a real antagonist with a logical grudge that the audience can relate to.
Ditch the garbage time/grind gating. Make the game fun to engage with. Release all content at the same time. Do the work, then release the work. No Mythic raider PTR. No balancing for addons, because they are gone. Just make the game. Stop layering mechanics to the nth degree.
Vanilla leveling was the best leveling. Stop making the journey a pitstop. The journey should be just that so players have an opportunity to build memories. Rewarding quests & dungeons that incentivize the time during the journey. It's literally D4 loot in the campaign. you don't care about the item, just the green arrow the addon shows you and the number going up. This isn't how you design a MMO item structure, it's how you design a mobile game.
Be willing to cull the bots for real. Screw the income, they destroyed the integrity of the game.
With really no healers around in PvP… I don’t think it’d be a terrible idea to make rated solo que like skirmishes… make it primarily 2v2 DPS unless a healer ques and they que with you. Ques might be faster? Just another idea
That would be more fun and fast. 2v2, no healers allowed.
Would have to rebalance a lot of DPS classes specifically for that, which could make them OP in 3s or BGs
@@NarutoUzomaki65 you’re right. However, if majority of players are queuing in solo rated content, why put the same or more effort into brackets like 3v3 anymore? I like 3v3, but I wouldn’t be bummed if they put more effort into other brackets. I’m sure they could come up with a new tournament that’s not 3v3
@@jonathanjauregui8217 Sure, I think they could also design much more BG or even new arena maps, like 2-3 new maps for both BG and arena every season. I also think they could make new gamemodes without destroying the balance of 3s
Season of Discovery is where everyone is at
Rated pvp is fun. A bit complicated for many but I’m enjoying my push. We just need to go to a simpler system where we don’t need sites and guides to tell us how to build our talent trees or play. The game should be intuitive and closer to a TBC pvp environment but with better balancing.
I personally liked Wrath, Cata, and MoP for PvP the best. Things were a lot simpler even then.
@@naejimba Wrath wasn't bad. It was simpler. MoP had other issues. Crowd control got out of control.
@@arcadialive4265 , IMO, they needed an overhaul, and no other MMORPG has built a better mousetrap to deal with CC effects than the Resolve bar from SWtOR. Not every iteration was perfect, mind you, but the concept allows for you to control the two main variables: 1) how long a player can be CC chained for, 2) what overall percentage of time can a player spend in CC. It does this without having to be concerned about the amount of CC abilities given to each character.
Of course just throwing this on top of WoW without rebalancing essentially breaks the game, but any significant change would require it. There are a number of benefits to moving to this system:
1) Making the game MUCH easier to pick up and play for new players
2) Making it easier to spectate and tell what is going on
3) Doesn't require addons
4) Removes DR categories which eliminates confusion as well as makes just about any comp work well together
5) Instead of a nerf bat it gives the PvP team a surgical toolkit as they can tweak how each individual CC effect interacts with the bar (aka how quickly it fills), as well as spec specific adjustments. Even better, such adjustments have ZERO impact on PvE.
I'm primarily a mythic raider, but I decided to try solo shuffle one time. I have 0 rating on my character. I inspected the 5 other people in my lobby and the lowest rating I saw was 1750. To say I got farmed would be an understatement. Solo shuffle doesn't seem to be a new player friendly mode.
Basically you start somewhere in the middle and you will drop a lot first and than improve from there. Shitty system
@ziggs123 so I need to wait 20-30 min ques to get my ass handed to me a few times and then I can potentially enjoy solo shuffle?
@@Kohmuh Premade 3s is much better
@@ziggs123 Basically like Chess xd
Not surprised, it's the worst MMO in PvP&PvE out of the main ones like TESO, BDO, FF, NW and so on. first of all the button bloat is just stupid, in WoW you have 2x,3x,4x,5x the amount of buttons to press while at the same time doing LESS than you can do in other MMO's, why are there so many buttons for the easiest mechanically combat MMO there is? the game is to dated, half the classes have to stand still to cast an ability... incredibly boring. The PvE is the easiest and most bland and boring of all other MMO's and the PvP is just as bad, just wait for healers CD's before you nuke, how boring is that it's not skill based really, obviously someone who knows what they are doing will dominate someone who doesn't but yeah its low skill you can't make plays in wow outside of baiting CD's and line of LoS...
The crafting system might as well be removed from the game its so bland. Other MMO's manage to make that into an in depth fun and interesting game loop with progression in itself.
Macros should also be bannable like all other games, especially those that are chaining many skills together or animation cancelling.
The only reason wow has so many players is because its super easy to play, there are a ton of old players and disabled players who play it where they can't play other MMO's as well as they can in WoW, Hell there's even a blind person who streams WoW.
The world of WoW is also the most uninteresting out of them all, there is nothing cool to discover, you don't see things that make you go "wow that looks cool i'm gonna go and explore it" and have a chance to find some cool loot. that just doesn't exist in wow, the best thing you will find is a rock or a herb maybe a fishing spot lol... Oh can't forget the useless chests which hold junk. Other MMO's chest's are great way to make money and find cool gear to use/sell for a good profit or find uniques.
WoW is just bad, this is why players are dwindling (about time let it die)
the big problem is the partecipation, all rating problems come from this and it's troublesome.
I currently have to play at a Glad lvl to just to get 1800. It's not worth that effort for the mog
No you don't lol
I'm 2.2k and im not that good
I started playing retail 2 months ago Im 2.9 blitz and 2.2 Solo shuffle on enhance 2k on my ele and 2k on my Windwalker. Its easy to get to this rating right now from what I have experienced
@@lunar2328 What class/spec do you play
@@NarutoUzomaki65 arms warrior
@@lunar2328 I guess OP plays offmeta class, which is much harder to climb with rn.
The only way I'd get into rated PvP is if they:
-Simplified everyone's toolkits
-Removed gear from the equation entirely
-Nerfed CC in PvP by making things a slow in movement speed/weapon speed/gcd instead of a full stop on players or at least adding better counterplay to rogues
-Make a system that doesn't require you to have an alt to not destroy your season record (unsure on this since I obviously refuse to engage with rated PvP, I've just heard about it while searching)
Despite my current loathing, I truly think games should be balanced for PvP/Player Interaction first, and everything else should be shaped around that core experience.
retail is still up? i thought they shut it down
one fix is you use both systems. bracket ranks (rival duelist elite etc) should be relative based on % and you enable mid season rewards to stop people from pushing super early before the total pvp population is saturated
best solution i've heard so far is make all rewards available based on participation and make the reward rate higher based on rating. so 50 wins for glad at 2400 30 wins at 2700 and 1000 wins at 1200
I have been banned a total of TWENTY FIVE days this expansion because I REFUSE to stop referring to hunters as huntards ! Been playing since BC and this has never been a problem before the AI customer service took over.
Needless to say I am enjoying my time in POE2 while TWW rots.
TBH, when the second Longboi released, I didn't renew my subscription anymore. I was participating in every bracket except for 3v3 on multiple chars and was enjoying the game, but at that point I decided for myself that this expansion was not going to be the return to form that I had hoped for.
Wow pvp is dead? I can't believe it. Such a nice game...
Damn good thing i decided to play classic era would've been mad do all that grinding and have long que times.
i know it means nothing but i havent done a single arena match this season.
Outside of RWF -- Most (if not all) of the big streamers/content creators come from a PVP background. There's clearly viewership and interest from the community, it just needs attention.
Maybe make the game playable for casters. Remove monk grip and bump, nerf war, nerf feral druid
Its a complete caster meta dude
What are you talking mage has every escape possible, 3 blinks reverse time, iceblock slow everything. Druid balance keeps shape-shifting and will.never die. Warlocks melt people. Priest never dies, can have 2 dps hitting priest and it will last more than warrior prot or dk. It is completely stupid to see a cloth class being ad tanky as priest is. Casters are so full of tricks and they only die on 1v1 vs themselves, melee players cannot kill casters without healer on his pocket.
Rated PVP is fun, but the issue that has existed since it has been active has been keeping a group. Always having people drop, quit the game, rage quit after one loss, has really made the whole thing not enjoyable. As time goes on, people don't have the time to deal with the grind of keeping up socially in MMO's, which is how you really succeed in PvP (Yes, skill and experience definitely help with success, but social aspect is by far the most important. You aren't soloing your way to the top.)
Didn't even watch the video yet but I see these often. As a complete casual, in the recent years of WoW, the last thing I want to do is go into a match against other people who, odds are that they're much better than me, and get absolutely roflstomped. Not a great feeling. My honest opinion is I don't see absolutely any reason to do pvp these days, there's just no joy in it. I used to PvP back in WoD and Pandaria when it felt pretty good and WAS fun. I even tried it back in SL for a short minute but it just felt.. Bleh. I got to 2500 in SL and basically said "never again" lol. My basic reason for commenting on this is they need to make it actually fun. I know balancing classes is difficult, and even after constant nerfs to some specs and buffs to others, it just flip flops back and forth between meta and non-meta. Just bring JOY back to pvp. How to do it? I'm not sure where to start, cause I'm not in-tune with the pvp scene anymore.
Brother I didnt even know there was a new expansion until last month and I played wow for 15 years lol.
TWW overall just isn’t doing great, keep that in mind
100% agreed
they ruined our m+
I dropped retail for many reasons. I hate the “evolving meta” philosophy blizzard has adopted; it creates a FOTM meta, which sucks for class specialists. Retail gave me anxiety when I discovered a strong build because I knew the nerf was coming (virtually every class/spec/build I love have been nerf batted) as opposed to classic where I have security that strong abilities/builds will always be strong.
PvP is a dead game mode.
No one wants to play it.
No one cares about it.
(Except for a very small minority)
The only way to get regular people to do ANYTHING in wow (except erp) is to give rewards that matter to the characters power and then have that power be used oppressively against people that have less power and can’t avoid it. It’s the only way.
Stomping undergeared players is the only fun left in the game and I'm not even joking. Everything else requires a warcraft PhD.
I just wanna chill, not work a second job.
I just went from 2050 to 1900 rating in 2 shuffles. I might have played bad or my teammates, but it will take like 10 shuffles to get that rating back, and i have to win 4 or more. Gtfo
If you still PvP in WoW you get what you deserve at this point
You're helpful
You prob a hardstuck 1400 criying about pvp lol
Damn son, Full of hate 😂
@@baboonman846 x2 😂
Make it make sense. 😂
I feel like WoW needs to also look at incentivizing and rewarding PvP while levelling up. Participation may be hampered just because the new players coming in are not encouraged to try it out, and may not even know it's a thing. I get popups for dungeons, raids, delves, and all other PvE content, but I don't recall a "try out battlegrounds or arena" prompts, ever?
I'm not sure how much it will help given levelling speed now, but I don't think it will hurt.
Alternatively, go the GW2 route and just make PvP scale everyone to max level. In GW2 it works, but I think WoW needs to revitalize its PvP.
The game is trash
Hardstuck 1400 prob i Guess
Bro you are still on retail pvp, its dead my friend, its deadge for years now it wont be fixed, its just bad gameplay loop, pop cds and wait for them