@@stillnotchill2560 That the root of all evil on this game, gear lock... Player would do anything to get better gear for pvp... If the game only had pve, cheating would be very rare... The moment u can use that gear on other players, anything goes...
Understanding it is easy given circumstances. Hardbotting is usually done by people with a profit motive or kids trying it out of curiosity. Soft botting (i.e, just a juke bot) is done by people are desperately want rewards. If you encounter someone running a fully scripted bot that plays the game for them chances are they're going to sell that account, sell the bot itself, or are a kid who is fascinated by a bot playing the game well. The scum are the people who will play the game themselves but then toggle on a ring of peace bot every time they play into a disc priest as an example
They dont do it for the thrill of winning, they do it either for money(selling glad titles or stuff like that) or they just want the glad titles so ppl think they are good
This isn't just in WoW, It's any competitive online game. People are willing to pay subscriptions to bots in order for them to gain the respect of their peers and the prestige that comes with it, others cheat cause they think the majority of players are cheating. It's a mess, and there's no hope in sight that we'll ever have integrity in our favorite competitive games ever again.
Anyone who thinks they get any amount of meaningful respect because they have good gear or a high ranking in world of warcraft is a delusional moron who's opinions don't matter anyway
The prestige of being good in online competitive games has become extremely lucrative with free platforms such as youtube/twitch to monetize content with advertisers. Cheats are affordable and now a days we have things like easier means to transfering money. It's no longer a sketchy thing to do to buy cheats from a random place with your paypal. The entire space is corrupt and much like real sports, gaming has slowly too evolved into who can get away with doing the most cheating while going under the radar.
What you are describing is a lot of pvp in general. People want to have the easiest path to victory, and will do everything they can to avoid potentially losing. Fair and engaging competition is very rare to find.
as someone who has played the game for nearly 20 years, and has repeatedly tried to get into pvp only to have their face repeatedly slammed and dragged acrossed a field of broken glass, I can't tell you how defeating this makes me feel seeing this and realizing I've seen this behavior and weird stuff MORE than I want to admit and has made me give up pvp because I thought I genuinely was too terrible to understand the game
Not a bad idea; they have this for Rocket League actually, and it's pretty entertaining and also totally non-toxic. It feels like the coders make their, thing, see how it does out in the field and then really respect what they learn from other's codes. I believe the currect best is called Nexto if you wanted to look it up. But the bots cannot connect to online PvP lobbies
btw for those who may not know, there is no neural netwrok iteration here, this bot is just a mesh of if-then conditions. Pretty impressive programming.
The cheating has gotten so much worse than it used to be. There isn’t a single online competitive game out there that isn’t plagued by cheating nowadays. Warzone, Apex, WoW, destiny 2.. strait up everything. I am already seeing adverts for boosting and gold in D4
the absolute WORST thing a game can do to lose players is the company not addressing or taking care of cheaters. Stuff like that really irks people especially if you are competitive in PvP and when you die in the back of your mind you just aren't sure if you lost to skill and something on your part you can improve or if it's totally out of your hands and you lost to something unbeatable.
Botting has been a big issue for over half of wows life and not much will ever be done as long as they pay their sub fees but yet the game is alive. Funny that
Nope, they never cared and it didn't hurt the game because there's only a small percentage of players competing at the top where noobs have to abuse all bugs and the power of programming to outperform those who are more skilled than them. There might be a difference because now there's a lot more streamers with a lot bigger audiences compared to when BS like this first ruined the game in retail wow during TBC, but I highly doubt it, we're talking about a small indy company, ignore they make billions of revenue.
Thanks for posting this. This doesn't just affect the high end either it trickles down and affects the whole ladder. Crazy because there is no doubt this is going on in retail and no doubt PvE or will begin to trickle over to PvE.
Things like this have been in pve for just as long if not longer than pvp. Parsing gets everyone all hot n bothered and as someone that does both, people seem to care more about their parse number than their rating
I gave up on PvP in WoW when in an RBG I was chain interrupted 3 times in a row when I went to cast a healing spell. AS A FERAL DRUID. No actual player would counterspell me because my healing is so weak, but kick-bots can't tell the difference. Ban All Addons. It would kill 99% of all bots overnight.
Addons have become a cancer for WoW. They used to be fun ways to fix Blizzard's mistakes (UI) or make certain raid fights a bit easier (example would be Defile on Lich King which is insanely hard to react to if you don't have an addon) but have gotten to a point where the only difference between an addon and a bot is reaction time. Plenty of addons/weakauras will basically tell you what to do next in both PvE and PvP but are technically not bots since the player is inputting the commands.
They had that one AVR addon during wotlk that would show you where a bosses attacks were going to land before they went off. Blizzard banned it because it made fights so trivial but now we're just about back to that level of cheapness and they don't seem to care. It's weird.
@@VAFranky oh yeah I remember that addon. You could also draw on the floor and stuff and everyone who had the addon could see it. We got heroic 25 professor putricidee with it
@@estebanslavidastic4382 yeah I remember that too...the community flipped out, with articles on fan sites like WOWinsider calling it out...good times 😂
What's so weird to me is just how Arena is generally nowadays. When I was Gladiator back during TBC, Wrath, I LOVED to get matched up with other high-rank teams because I wanted to see how good I was.. or, if they continuously beat us, it was so rewarding to finally beat them, and do it consistently.
Mad respect to the programmers who designed the bot. I'm not approving the botting. But the craftsmanship in this bot is amazing. This people should work in NASA, not doing the bots for WoW 😅
If these folks could channel their talents elsewhere we'd have a cure for cancer, infinite clean energy, and no more hunger. But the gladiator mount is good too.
@@TurboV8boi really though? You'd have to expect that the market for that bot is what, 1,000 people in the world at most? A developer who is that good is easily getting 200K a year on the open market...and also not at risk of getting sued by Activision.
@@andrewshandle a good developer can make something like this and not take credit for it. It’s probably a Frankenstein product anyways that just got transfigured into a bot. I doubt that was the intention and I doubt the only audience are neck beards that want to be the best in a 15 year old game.
I am a firm believer blizzard could make a popular stand-alone arena game. A separate title not plagued by pve motivation, ui elements, and addons. Make all the achievements cosmetic, and invest all resources into balance, and anti-cheat. One can dream right?
Strong disagreement here. I played such a game. Winning had no lasting advantage. No score was kept after the game. No W/L. Nothing. It was simple enough, and incredibly fun. Within months, cheaters, hackers, & botters everywhere. The ego-protection offered by cheating is ever present. Pathetic people will be pathetic.
I want to provide a slight ray of sunshine - when you see what the bot does on rogue, and then you go back and rewatch reckful and woundman... that was insane rogue play on their part :) Ven, you need to join forces with Chanimal - I remember watching his stream back at the start of TBC classic and he said it is his mission to make more and more advanced weakauras until blizzard finally bans it lol
Chanimal can do what he wants, but blizz will never fully ban weakauras. pve is balanced around weakauras...and tbf, liquid and echo write WAY more advanced WA than Chanimal ever will. So, you want to cuck the pve community cuz some people think WA play the game for you...
They need to ban the API access in. There's no need for a competitive player to have access to that data when we have built in UI and cd information already.
Thank you creating and posting this video and sharing your thoughts and opinions on how it is severely diminishing the arena and pvp experience. I know you speak for a large part of the community when you say how these bots and addons have basically ruined arena. I am the last of my crew who still plays classic; my 3 other gladiator friends who I played with back in the original tbc/wrath days have all quit and they all quit because arena has now become a game of who can use third party programs better. WoW arena was always beautiful and nostalgic for me because of the amount of decision making and execution went into it. I was lucky to play with players much better than me and I remember they would call out what spec an opponent was based off their fucking gloves. We used to mentally keep a clock of when enemy cd's and their trinket might be back up. I literally dreamed for years for Blizzard to somehow bring back these older versions of the game so we can all relive our arena experience; unfortunately, that was not the case because of "Fragile Egos" of these players that you mentioned. The phrase I use to describe these phucks every time this conversation comes up at work (I work with a collegiate esports program) is: "How small are these dude's penises that they need these bots and addons just to win". Arena is supposed be about being granted a title for those who obtain it through hard work and dedication. Like everything in life, the journey is more important than the destination. Climbing that ladder, knowing you are playing against the other best players and beating them, isn't that what arena used to be about? Again thank you Venruki for posting this as the community respects you as you have earned your status as a god among humans in wow pvp.
basically the guy with the faster CPU and GPU pc would win, because of faster game rendering/FPS and faster working/calculating BOT. Soon people will buy i9 + 3090 for reaching gladiator, lol. ( ALSO faster internet connection is Key in Bot vs Bot)
@@banariecristian3466 I see your point, but you think about an optimal scenario where every key press would be registered immediately. In the real world we have latency. With that you kinda overestimate the amount of computation required to determine the next action that is executed. If anything, I would argue that what is more realistic to what you are hypothesizing would be the need to optimize the latency of your internet connection (while obviously having good enough hardware for running game+model in the background). More specifically, 5ms vs 100ms would make quite a big difference if you are competing to press an ability first, i.e., which button press reaches blizz's server first.
@@banariecristian3466 They are most likely single-threaded, and it's relatively cheap because it is just event tracking with rotation callback. So the winner will most likely be the one with the lowest ping.
As someone who has participated in designing a competitive matchmaking system. The dodging/sniping problem is so trivial to solve (like we could actually provide data and proof that this isn't an issue for our system). You simply have a component of your rank reward activity, so that players are always incentivised to queue. Even if they lose, their activity coefficient will increase. Any system that is ranked purely on rating will always encourage this kind of behaviour, which can cause a death spiral for the queue when everyone is trying to dodge everyone else.
@@jeff230394 Bud I haven't played this game in 6+ months. Haven't done any arena since tbc classic. I don't understand why people think that making uneducated guesses like this is the smart thing to do.
Show this to blizzard please; you nailed it so perfectly ! Losing to rogue botting happened to me right now, in the new season ... Come on blizzard, make an effort to fix this, it is going way too far.
Cheating in wotlk arena is the opposite of surprising. Literally ALL of Warmane's arena scene was cheats. All scripts, etc. Those same players came over and, what, were suddenly going to play fair?
This is why I refuse to play arenas on Warmane. I murder 99% of people in duels, then join an arena at 1700mmr and get absolutely destroyed by some randoms. Coincidentally these same randoms are worthless outside of arenas. They go from ppl who are impossible to fake cast to people who backpedal and click their spells.
@@Min-gy8zu you can still determine the players skill level to some degree. These arena pros suddenly backpedaling and moving with arrow keys in a duel doesn't make sense.
The CR here is Vitalic's Rogue CR. He has been running it since Classic Era, it has its own unlocker, supports all specs and has advanced PvP mechanics. It is by far the best combat routine for WOTLK available. However it's pretty exclusive and underground.
To prevent dodging could you go sit in one of the open world arena? Would that trick them into thinking your already in a match? Or would it just show the zone name instead?
Do you think this is happening in BGs as well? I’ve stopped taking cyclone as a Druid because almost every time I try to use it it gets kicked in a millisecond. Not half way through the cast but at the same time I press the button to cast it.
@@stirfry2076 Dont listen to stirfry, he's probably a Loser who's doing pride events and thinks he's cool but is actually just a disappointment to his whole family and bloodline.
Gaming developers need to use AI to prevent AI from AIing their games. We need to figure out what’s possible as far as human reaction, attention and prediction when it comes to playing a game so that protective AI within the game can identify when a non-human activity occurs. Because circumstances exist where people get “lucky” or are so skilled they push the limits of what’s humanly possible, there also needs to be a high degree of tracking and cataloging the frequency of anomalies occurring
In vanilla tbc we would dodge at rank 1 but “dodging” just meant not queueing into comps that are risky to play against and give only 1-2 rating per win, or counter comps. We wouldn’t scout but we heard of other teams scouting with level 1 alts to see if particular arena team members were online on other servers
The worst about this is that I never know for sure if I lost because I suck or that I got cheated. It's so corrosive to my feeling of accomplishment and being able admit my own mistakes.
Bro, what’s your rank? I can safely say that 99% of Venruki’s subs (including me, and most likely you) won’t ever encounter those giga-bots, if they do exist.
This right here is why the relaunch of classic will never be the same as it was in 08/09. Miss those times. Endless queues and people relying on their own skill. Funnest PVP I ever had in the history of wow was S8 on blackrock.
Venruki as a player of wow for almost 15 years now and being super competitive, i 100% agree with you brother, add-ons slowly killed this game - i remember the first arena season ever where it was PURE talent. I miss. i miss.................. miss those days. 🥺
I run around on my prevoker to see how he moves as well, I call it healing parkour. I remember early honor buddy and its advancement, at first they did nothing so they were obvious then they moved but didn't fight, I think that's where we ended Wrath as I recall or the next stage where they fought some but were bad. I think the worst for retail was WoD, had the scripting bots, kick bots, and the honor farming bots. To this day I do bot checks, I haven't played since S1but I don't get the feeling in retail I had back when bots were common. They keep covering up how they're detected and, eventually, the only way to tell will be the precision of their spells and not observationally.
The only way to curb dodging teams is mandatory match ups for the top teams. And no more rating if you beat the same low tier teams too many times. Then there should be panalties for alt f4 to get out of bad ques
The idea that Blizzard can only catch bots if they are reported by players is an absolute joke. It's really disheartening to know that WoW was once a test of skill in some aspects, but now Blizzard is only interested in commercialization.
Indeed! I mean he could've just sent all proof to blizzard directly but he went out of his way to upload the video here. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Buying the bot as soon as I can find my credit card. Nice views and ad-clicks tho!
I've never "cheated" in online games besides honorbuddy for honor gear and leveling alts back in MoP-Legion (I hate leveling more than once per expansion). I got banned 6 months for botting leveling in Legion and have not touched it since. I can't even imagine why it would be fun to have a bot do stuff for you in PvP. I'm an avid arena player and multi-glad on 4 melee classes (I'm not r1 material but decent at some stuff for being old) but the fact I can do plays now and then is what makes it satisfying. To not have that? Only to win at all costs with a bot? I will never understand :D
Same dude. Got the 6 month hammer for using honorbuddy in MoP😂alooooot of people did. Im so glad it wasnt permanent. Never gonna cheat ever again. Even if its just for mining or farming honoe
I've been playing Apex Legends lately and not many top level players actually play the "true base version game". It's all scripts/macros/closet cheating in order to get their name one step closer to making money from doing it. There's too much money to be made for anyone to actually play fair these days. This is basically why children heavily involved in sports with parents pushing them towards the big leagues get them on pharmaceutical regimes at an early age. Anyone can grind their ass off till their body quits...so now people just resort to pushing max human potential in order to gain an unfair advantage. Same concept applies in online gaming...drug enhancers and tech cheating/cheating within the boundaries.
Same shit that was happening on Warmane (wotlk private server) with the scripted bots. You can spectate any arena match or rewatch them from in-game, pretty cool feature btw...BUT it gave you an opportunity to see high ranked matches and even witness these blatantly exploited bot systems. The warrior bots were pretty insane.
I'm pretty sure predicting is not possible. Probably the guy who made this script video, he actually knows how to play, and recorded some footage where he just actively tried to predict fears/hoj just so he could say the script is doing it. No script can actually predict the future, especially not in arena which is pretty chaotic.
Different story but crazy situation too was when my buddy and I decided to make twink TBC 70 characters back in MoP maybe. We started queueing for Arenas in 2s and started getting matches against people who have been doing this for years. Well the people doing this sucked and we started smoking everybody winning like 90% of games and we eventually moved to threes after finding another twink to run 3s. Not only did people stop queuing but they also threatened the new guy healing us because we were destroying their ratings and brackets. Its a smaller tight knit community so they all knew each other. They told our new 3s healer to throw games against specific teams or they wouldn't pay for his wow sub anymore. We didn't know this at the time but he told us after he did it a few times and I asked him what was up. He apologized and my buddu and I left twinking after that and leveled up our characters. What people don't know is that if you twinked and did arenas and got a high rating you could level up while still in the season and when you hit max level you would get placed at the end of the season like you participated normally and we got titles from it. We only ever did it that time because I thought it was fucked up but I still dont know if people know about that or if you can still do it.
I think weakaura is the most game breaking addon. Yeah you can do basically everything with it but it also prevent people from thinking. DBM was always enough back in the days. Nowadays we need something like "don't release" to release correctly so spells can reset.
That’s nothing compared to PvP now. The AI bots for PvP are so good you literally don’t touch the keyboard. It plays the game for you and then you use your mouse to exit the arena after it’s done.
On that last clip with the rogue blinding the trinket, you can even notice how the bot turns him around 180 to blind and the guy ends up slipping off the rope because he lost control for that brief moment while he was holding W to run across.
The reason classic is so popular I think is because you can still see what's going on on your screen. I know it's a thing I noticed right away playing classic.
Yea, anyone doing bgs in wrath should be able to see the swarm of them using the very basic and cheap bots that run the similar paths every bg. Last sota bg I did had 4 very basic rogue bots on must be using the free scripts sat on me whole game I was heals when a person got nearby would target them for half a second and right back to me when they got out of range, every kick was used on cd so stopcasting macro would get all 4 kicks at once not a single rogue even bothering to have poisons applied on the weapon just sickening really.
I suspect this also happens at low rating. I don't play higher than 2.2k, usually much lower even. Still, between the relatively easy games, I run into low rated rogues that do a few things really well: They almost always get my fear with cloak of shadows in a way that I can't avoid. Besides that, occasionally a warrior just does such insane unhealable damage that I just don't know where it's coming from. I think they're using rotation bots as well. My rogue also tends to get hit by a shout INSTANTLY on vanish, by these warriors.
I remember this happening all the way back in WoD and is the reason I refuse to run Arena. I know it may not be that prevalent people say at lower ratings, but you’d be wrong if you think that. It’s even more noticeable at low ratings. I played against the same Warlock who used a rotation bot and to this day still never got banned. The reason I say it was obvious is, his toon occasionally would do some weird shit while casting and almost bug out as if the bot didn’t know what to do. He would pull off Microsecond CCs and I even ran into him in RBGs and the bot was able to keep FULL continuous dot rotations on our entire team without fail.
classic is dying, im hoping season of mastery 2 isnt placed at such a shit time, because i would gladly play it, i already liked SOM 1 but the second one has alot of potential, i feel like it would bring back a resurrgence of classic pvp and it wont be dogshit, also this is what happens when you ignore cheaters and botters and ect, when i played on skyfury (the fresh wotlk server) there was a bot in scholzar basin, since launch day of wotlk (well after that bot hit lvl 80) he has been in there almost 24/7 grinding materials, reported him multiple times, noting, ignored.
As someone that enjoys all aspects of competitive gaming I have to say cheating is beginning to kill that enjoyment factor. Sadly there are only two realistic options that could potentially fix the problem one bing making it a crime to cheat considering it is knowingly ruining an IP and the second being hoping AI anti cheat is the saving grace.
I've been back to wotlk for 3 weeks now and for sure there are some people using a kickbot. Sometimes when I notice it, I try to cast something and instantly interrupting my own cast and I still get kicked haha, 100% kickbots. I also agree on the addon part. Blizzard should fix the UI more so we can track the buffs and debuffs better. I absolutely hate using WA and with all the modifiers these days there are so plenty. Hence why I dislike pvp in retail. That's not the only reason, but just commenting this because of me agreeing to your argument about addons
There are bots n cheaters for sure. But wow pvp is nothing compared to like aion where u have sometimes over 50+ skills n pots to use in one fight. I played warmane wotlk and pvp in wow is braindamage ez
Arguably the worst part about this is how videos like that are in public for everybody to see being used in competitive game modes and blizzard seems to just not care. impressive
I'll be honest I don't think the dodging and sniping is a problem. They've just made it easier to know when to stop playing. They don't want to go up against multi rank 1 PvPers because they're not interested in proving some competitive epeen, they just want the r1 title like you said.
You know people bot in retail right? 50% of streamers do ... Even pika has been accused of using the rogue bots many times by pulling crazy moves while playing one handed or while reading chat. Cdew orb botted in mist of panda and used excuses to blame blizzard. All you have to do is tell the bot to NOT do it perfectly and turn down some setting to make it looks more realistic. Not all players that bot are bad. Some are actually amazing at the game but it makes streaming and carrying easier.
@BirthofEcstasy and I know GSE is a thing. Which allows you to make macros that WoW doesn't allow based on TOS. Macros don't auto kick at 80% of the cast, stun as soon as your buffs fall or before a druid can even visually see that they shifted forms on their screen, dispell as soon as you press a buff button. I could go forever on the easy things $15 bots people use constantly.
This isn't specific to wotlk arena. This problem is just people in general now. The world is full of honourless degenerates and no matter what you do or where you go you cannot escape it
It amazes me people pay to play a game and they have weakauras do everything for them even the world first races they all use weakauras these top tier players are only as good as the plug ins they use lol
Wrong. The game is made with addons in mind. It’s not the top end players fault when they aren’t responsible for the addons the devs specifically design around. If you remove addons (which I think should be a thing) then the game gets made a bit easier with less one shot mechanics. But they use it because the games literally designed around which they’ve stated they don’t like.
tell me you dont know ANYTHING about weakauras, without telling me you dont know anything about weakauras. the last time a weakaura played the game for you was archimonde mythic in HFC. after that blizz restricted what WA can show you. and now in dragonflight blizzard implemented hidden auras that are not trackable via weakauras. these world first raiders are way better than you and i will ever imagine. they even world first raids in ff14 or currently diablo 4.
Speaking on addons... I remember how much shit talk streamers using GladiatorLossa would get. It would be paraded on arenajunkies as if they were cheating. Now Mes Weakauras is a staple in PvP and if you're not using it you're at a 200+ rating disadvantage.
Rogue animations look so badass when played to perfection :o Reminds me of the baddass pvp music videos that took 5 hours of dueling, rehersing, staging, just to get 2 decent clips out of something resembling what this bot can do every game :(
These are really good evidence for an full account closure. Botting is really harmful for the gaming industry but people just wants to get the most easiest way to achieve their goals.
Yeah, can't say I'm surprised to see the botting level presented in this video. I experienced these "insane R1 moves" from otherwise totally average players on a daily basis throughout the season, especially at top level.
I'm seeing it way too often in low cr (1330-1500) I started to notice way too many people are silencing me before my first penance bolt, or just getting frame perfect cyclones and pollymoprhs for it to be a coincidence Way too many feral druids rogues and warriors keep doing a weird jerky left to right motion, and those are the people that are impossible to heal through I really wanted to believe it was a git gud issue on my part, but It's just so blatenly obvious because too many people are doing this now
Is there a class or comp that isn't affected as much by these bots and is still playable? I struggle a lot with disc priest around 2.4 last season. after seeing this video i don't know what to think.
I was playing Priest / Rogue, Couldn't beat Resto Druid / Rogue. Went on my 1500 rated Hunter and took like 24 points from the Rank 1 druid / rogue team. They were over 2300. They probably only get 2 points per win. I thought it was hilarious. I also had a blue bow. The community is just to small not much you can do about it. I don't even play mage and got R1 on Endless before TBC an Wrath came out.
Next to dodging, sniping and queuing at 4am in the morning for wintrading; Gcdhacks, scripts and bots were widely used by former and current "wow-celebrities" from EU back in the original WotLK too. The game was hardly ever truly competitive because of it.
This is really sad to see. Ven has always been an awesome PvPer and a total gentleman the whole time, and he's talking about just raid logging because of how bad it has gotten. Blizzard needs to buff their UI customization and just remove a bunch of LUA functionality.
Ive been an addon enjoyer since my Cata days. However they have become ridiculous over the years, partly because of the game itself adding so much to track with no default end game method to track it. I would 100% be down for a few more UI upgrades to cover the truely lacking things and then just removing the addon API. Currently Retail is pretty good, just not quite there.
@Venruki why did you get rid of your recent retail wow cheat is ruining retail vid? With the guy top on 8 chars promoting his bot. Im intrigued did blizz get you to take it down?
Rem ove ability to use addons and you cant bot anymore, would suck to lose some addons, but rather lose addons to get ridd of bots, bots can only be made because openings addons got.
The thing is, restricting addons won't affect bots because bots already unlock the wow api to use stuff that addons aren't allowed or can't use. And to detect bots it's just an infinite cat and mouse game, your best bet would be incentivising player reports and actually having more manual common sence human checks based on them. Probably costs a bit more but it doesn't take much more than 80 IQ to see if people are que dodging/sniping, botting etc if you have a report or simple algorythm that just says "hey, this is sus, look at this guy for like 5 minutes"
@@avopeac6300 yeah, but imagine the budget at continuesly rolling out new detection methods for the meriad of unlockers out there, the research needed to actually find them, find a way to detect them and then as soon as you roll it out they find a slight alternative and you get to do it all over again.
Thanks for bringing attention to this. Not only to bots, but to addons as well. I so agree with you, that wow streams can be so confusing to watch. People would get better at the game without these addons
Very interesting, thanks. Regarding addons, I think something you miss is the question of accessibility which they can answer for gamers who suffer from a disability or some condition. Addons like Clique (click to cast), WeakAuras (highly visible icons, aural cues), etc. can be a godsend, and I know for myself that I literally could not play WoW without addons. So I do think a balance has to be drawn which walks the line between functionality for certain users and unfair advantage for others.
Holy shit I don't play wotlk anymore nor pvp, but I've heard a lot lately about cheating in arena, but I didn't know it was this bad, holy shit. Another thing that I do agree on is that seeing streams of wow is mostly cancer because of all the addons that are available. Sure, most addons don't mess up your UI as much as others, but I do agree that most addons shows too much info about for example boss mechanics and other stuff like class rotations like when to press what etc. Funny thing is I remember not too long ago there was some huuuge drama on FFXIV on the race to world first where the guild who beat the boss first got accused of cheating and when looking at their POV of using these hacks they were just simple DBM or BigWig timers.
Every alt-f4 should give you like a 3 hour queue lockout, and within a timeframe before hard resetting (maybe 2 weeks) every subsequent alt-f4 increases your lockout period additively. eg after the 3rd dodge theres a 9 hour queue lockout period. I dont even play wow but this seems like it would be good for competition and not really punish people dodging without malicious intent. The only downside I can forsee with this is for the busy gamer-parent or likewise people with responsibilities tied to erratic situations. However I imagine theyre not really in top of bracket, so to avoid the (at this time) unneeded consequences for people like that, it should probably only be implemented in the smaller populations of bracket.
This was a very interesting video. I had no idea of some of the things that are going on right now when it comes to cheating. That being said, the very last clip you showed where it looked like the character's camera was bugging out and it looked sus.. I can say the same has happened to me where I've had a keybind on my mouse and I'm sitting there trying to move and spam that button on my mouse, making my character look like it's bugging out. Not trying to say that the person wasn't cheating or something, but that was the first thing I thought of when I saw that clip
The astonishing think is that those players never gets ban, while i flame 2 games in solo shuffle and get suspended for 10 days. I'm playing both WTLK and DragonF. and rogue hackers in WTLK are 80% even in low rating, sap-trinket-instant blind ALWAYS happen
Interesting video I didn’t know. I started playing BC up to legion took a break, came back got all my chars to 125, took another break to only find out everything is wiped to lvl 50 now. Found out classic wrath started in this phase got my 80 priest, I had a huge late start but luckily everything was free at the end. So I got all my furious gear half off :) now knowing this idk if I wanna play next season or just to save all my points, and buy everything half off. The only set I like is going to be next phase it’s pretty sexy looking.
I'm just curious as I noticed something odd on my rogue way back in mop in arena... Has anyone tried vanishing at the start just vanish at the very start of the game after gates open, not even stealth... I swear it makes them stop playing idk if it's still like this...
ill be honest, ive never understood how the desire to win can possibly be fulfilled by cheating... but, ya know, some people...
Because you unlock gear with higher rank
@@stillnotchill2560 That the root of all evil on this game, gear lock...
Player would do anything to get better gear for pvp...
If the game only had pve, cheating would be very rare...
The moment u can use that gear on other players, anything goes...
Understanding it is easy given circumstances. Hardbotting is usually done by people with a profit motive or kids trying it out of curiosity. Soft botting (i.e, just a juke bot) is done by people are desperately want rewards.
If you encounter someone running a fully scripted bot that plays the game for them chances are they're going to sell that account, sell the bot itself, or are a kid who is fascinated by a bot playing the game well.
The scum are the people who will play the game themselves but then toggle on a ring of peace bot every time they play into a disc priest as an example
the people don't care about becoming gladiator themselves, they just want other peoples appreciation and respect, that's what they desire.
They dont do it for the thrill of winning, they do it either for money(selling glad titles or stuff like that) or they just want the glad titles so ppl think they are good
I suspected there was a way to do this. Never imagined it would be possible. What a shitty time to be a gamer.
It's gonna get even worse, with AI getting better and better.
Over 10k people were given temp bans for using kickbot one season.... It was a temporary ban.. you think they stopped?
Kickbotting has been a thing forever, this is just the next logical step
That bots been around for years. Vitalic
we'll all be goin back to story driven single player games
This isn't just in WoW, It's any competitive online game. People are willing to pay subscriptions to bots in order for them to gain the respect of their peers and the prestige that comes with it, others cheat cause they think the majority of players are cheating. It's a mess, and there's no hope in sight that we'll ever have integrity in our favorite competitive games ever again.
Anyone who thinks they get any amount of meaningful respect because they have good gear or a high ranking in world of warcraft is a delusional moron who's opinions don't matter anyway
Agreed. New world was ruined by rampant cheating - it was a great game sans all the cheats, bots, and exploits.
Fuck it, time to move on from games. Let these degens eat each other.
capitalism taught them cheating is how you win...turns out they get away with it and capitalists give them a bonus handy for being a sack of sh*t
The prestige of being good in online competitive games has become extremely lucrative with free platforms such as youtube/twitch to monetize content with advertisers. Cheats are affordable and now a days we have things like easier means to transfering money. It's no longer a sketchy thing to do to buy cheats from a random place with your paypal. The entire space is corrupt and much like real sports, gaming has slowly too evolved into who can get away with doing the most cheating while going under the radar.
What you are describing is a lot of pvp in general. People want to have the easiest path to victory, and will do everything they can to avoid potentially losing. Fair and engaging competition is very rare to find.
as someone who has played the game for nearly 20 years, and has repeatedly tried to get into pvp only to have their face repeatedly slammed and dragged acrossed a field of broken glass, I can't tell you how defeating this makes me feel seeing this and realizing I've seen this behavior and weird stuff MORE than I want to admit and has made me give up pvp because I thought I genuinely was too terrible to understand the game
@DeathSithe92 I hear you. It's frustrating. However, it is such a statement about human nature in general.
The funniest thing at 14:24 is that the bot automatically turns the Character to blind the rogue, and made the botter falling down. 😂
stupid robot can't even move right
he wouldnt make it anyway you can see
Could become a whole new thing in which different bots face off against each other in a virtual robot wars.
that's basically what wow pvp kickbots have always been
healers are going to be the only players left
Sounds tight
It’s like the robot mice that solve mazes using algorithms and mechanics… pvp is just gonna be who can code the best
this was called WOD sir
Not a bad idea; they have this for Rocket League actually, and it's pretty entertaining and also totally non-toxic. It feels like the coders make their, thing, see how it does out in the field and then really respect what they learn from other's codes. I believe the currect best is called Nexto if you wanted to look it up. But the bots cannot connect to online PvP lobbies
btw for those who may not know, there is no neural netwrok iteration here, this bot is just a mesh of if-then conditions. Pretty impressive programming.
That must have taken so fucking long to program? I was sure this was AI
The cheating has gotten so much worse than it used to be. There isn’t a single online competitive game out there that isn’t plagued by cheating nowadays. Warzone, Apex, WoW, destiny 2.. strait up everything. I am already seeing adverts for boosting and gold in D4
the absolute WORST thing a game can do to lose players is the company not addressing or taking care of cheaters. Stuff like that really irks people especially if you are competitive in PvP and when you die in the back of your mind you just aren't sure if you lost to skill and something on your part you can improve or if it's totally out of your hands and you lost to something unbeatable.
Botting has been a big issue for over half of wows life and not much will ever be done as long as they pay their sub fees but yet the game is alive. Funny that
Look at escape from tarkov - one cheating video ANHILIATED the player base
addiction keeps u coming back regardless
Nope, they never cared and it didn't hurt the game because there's only a small percentage of players competing at the top where noobs have to abuse all bugs and the power of programming to outperform those who are more skilled than them. There might be a difference because now there's a lot more streamers with a lot bigger audiences compared to when BS like this first ruined the game in retail wow during TBC, but I highly doubt it, we're talking about a small indy company, ignore they make billions of revenue.
well they dont care and ppl ARE STILL PLAYING THEM SO...
Thanks for posting this. This doesn't just affect the high end either it trickles down and affects the whole ladder. Crazy because there is no doubt this is going on in retail and no doubt PvE or will begin to trickle over to PvE.
Things like this have been in pve for just as long if not longer than pvp. Parsing gets everyone all hot n bothered and as someone that does both, people seem to care more about their parse number than their rating
I gave up on PvP in WoW when in an RBG I was chain interrupted 3 times in a row when I went to cast a healing spell. AS A FERAL DRUID. No actual player would counterspell me because my healing is so weak, but kick-bots can't tell the difference. Ban All Addons. It would kill 99% of all bots overnight.
Addons have become a cancer for WoW. They used to be fun ways to fix Blizzard's mistakes (UI) or make certain raid fights a bit easier (example would be Defile on Lich King which is insanely hard to react to if you don't have an addon) but have gotten to a point where the only difference between an addon and a bot is reaction time. Plenty of addons/weakauras will basically tell you what to do next in both PvE and PvP but are technically not bots since the player is inputting the commands.
They had that one AVR addon during wotlk that would show you where a bosses attacks were going to land before they went off. Blizzard banned it because it made fights so trivial but now we're just about back to that level of cheapness and they don't seem to care. It's weird.
@@VAFranky oh yeah I remember that addon. You could also draw on the floor and stuff and everyone who had the addon could see it.
We got heroic 25 professor putricidee with it
@@estebanslavidastic4382 yeah I remember that too...the community flipped out, with articles on fan sites like WOWinsider calling it out...good times 😂
@@rumham8979 2bh it was kinda broken. it HELLA trivialized fights. we went from wipin on H PP to 3 shotting it
There are huge fucking differences between the add-on and what the bot is doing, I suspect anyone trying to trivialize the bot is likely one using it
What's so weird to me is just how Arena is generally nowadays. When I was Gladiator back during TBC, Wrath, I LOVED to get matched up with other high-rank teams because I wanted to see how good I was.. or, if they continuously beat us, it was so rewarding to finally beat them, and do it consistently.
Thats to hard for the Hardcore Classic Andys. They want it so easy as it gets.
@@xatan9480 i think it's more so related to gaming culture (in general) now vs 2010.. not classic andys or retail zoomers
Mad respect to the programmers who designed the bot. I'm not approving the botting. But the craftsmanship in this bot is amazing. This people should work in NASA, not doing the bots for WoW 😅
I would say you're right but they are probably making more money writing bots versus working for NASA lol.
If these folks could channel their talents elsewhere we'd have a cure for cancer, infinite clean energy, and no more hunger.
But the gladiator mount is good too.
@@The77Voice 😂
@@TurboV8boi really though? You'd have to expect that the market for that bot is what, 1,000 people in the world at most? A developer who is that good is easily getting 200K a year on the open market...and also not at risk of getting sued by Activision.
@@andrewshandle a good developer can make something like this and not take credit for it. It’s probably a Frankenstein product anyways that just got transfigured into a bot. I doubt that was the intention and I doubt the only audience are neck beards that want to be the best in a 15 year old game.
I am a firm believer blizzard could make a popular stand-alone arena game.
A separate title not plagued by pve motivation, ui elements, and addons. Make all the achievements cosmetic, and invest all resources into balance, and anti-cheat. One can dream right?
they COULD but they won't. Unless it has a nickel-and-dime cash shop
@@davidd9707 Exactly, Bobby needs another yacht for his collection
I would be a certified addict lol
Strong disagreement here. I played such a game. Winning had no lasting advantage. No score was kept after the game. No W/L. Nothing. It was simple enough, and incredibly fun. Within months, cheaters, hackers, & botters everywhere. The ego-protection offered by cheating is ever present. Pathetic people will be pathetic.
I want to provide a slight ray of sunshine - when you see what the bot does on rogue, and then you go back and rewatch reckful and woundman... that was insane rogue play on their part :)
Ven, you need to join forces with Chanimal - I remember watching his stream back at the start of TBC classic and he said it is his mission to make more and more advanced weakauras until blizzard finally bans it lol
Chanimal can do what he wants, but blizz will never fully ban weakauras. pve is balanced around weakauras...and tbf, liquid and echo write WAY more advanced WA than Chanimal ever will. So, you want to cuck the pve community cuz some people think WA play the game for you...
@@sinnis4993 Obviously they will tune the fights down a bit as well if they touch WA. As in they wouldn't design fights around addons anymore.
@@sinnis4993 Another thing they can do is just disable addons by content, like how nameplates get cucked when you do certain types of content.
@@Dodgegame tell that to the "no addons gang"
They need to ban the API access in. There's no need for a competitive player to have access to that data when we have built in UI and cd information already.
Thank you creating and posting this video and sharing your thoughts and opinions on how it is severely diminishing the arena and pvp experience. I know you speak for a large part of the community when you say how these bots and addons have basically ruined arena. I am the last of my crew who still plays classic; my 3 other gladiator friends who I played with back in the original tbc/wrath days have all quit and they all quit because arena has now become a game of who can use third party programs better. WoW arena was always beautiful and nostalgic for me because of the amount of decision making and execution went into it. I was lucky to play with players much better than me and I remember they would call out what spec an opponent was based off their fucking gloves. We used to mentally keep a clock of when enemy cd's and their trinket might be back up. I literally dreamed for years for Blizzard to somehow bring back these older versions of the game so we can all relive our arena experience; unfortunately, that was not the case because of "Fragile Egos" of these players that you mentioned. The phrase I use to describe these phucks every time this conversation comes up at work (I work with a collegiate esports program) is: "How small are these dude's penises that they need these bots and addons just to win". Arena is supposed be about being granted a title for those who obtain it through hard work and dedication. Like everything in life, the journey is more important than the destination. Climbing that ladder, knowing you are playing against the other best players and beating them, isn't that what arena used to be about? Again thank you Venruki for posting this as the community respects you as you have earned your status as a god among humans in wow pvp.
I wanna see two of these rogue bots go up against each other, rofl
lmao that would actually be hilarious
basically the guy with the faster CPU and GPU pc would win, because of faster game rendering/FPS and faster working/calculating BOT. Soon people will buy i9 + 3090 for reaching gladiator, lol. ( ALSO faster internet connection is Key in Bot vs Bot)
@@banariecristian3466 I see your point, but you think about an optimal scenario where every key press would be registered immediately. In the real world we have latency. With that you kinda overestimate the amount of computation required to determine the next action that is executed. If anything, I would argue that what is more realistic to what you are hypothesizing would be the need to optimize the latency of your internet connection (while obviously having good enough hardware for running game+model in the background). More specifically, 5ms vs 100ms would make quite a big difference if you are competing to press an ability first, i.e., which button press reaches blizz's server first.
@@banariecristian3466 looks like many people other than the cheaters themselves would incentivize this type of cheating.
@@banariecristian3466 They are most likely single-threaded, and it's relatively cheap because it is just event tracking with rotation callback. So the winner will most likely be the one with the lowest ping.
As someone who has participated in designing a competitive matchmaking system. The dodging/sniping problem is so trivial to solve (like we could actually provide data and proof that this isn't an issue for our system). You simply have a component of your rank reward activity, so that players are always incentivised to queue. Even if they lose, their activity coefficient will increase. Any system that is ranked purely on rating will always encourage this kind of behaviour, which can cause a death spiral for the queue when everyone is trying to dodge everyone else.
Yeah, participation trophies are the answer.
@@JoshLineberry When the problem is lack of participation? Absolutely.
@@spanzotab Nah, not for something like this. Arena rankings aren't about participation trophies.
@Cman0420 cman are you one of the people dodging ? This makes sense lol 😂
@@jeff230394 Bud I haven't played this game in 6+ months. Haven't done any arena since tbc classic. I don't understand why people think that making uneducated guesses like this is the smart thing to do.
Show this to blizzard please; you nailed it so perfectly ! Losing to rogue botting happened to me right now, in the new season ... Come on blizzard, make an effort to fix this, it is going way too far.
Cheating in wotlk arena is the opposite of surprising. Literally ALL of Warmane's arena scene was cheats. All scripts, etc. Those same players came over and, what, were suddenly going to play fair?
Sad but true, naive me thought blizz would do something vs it...
This is why I refuse to play arenas on Warmane. I murder 99% of people in duels, then join an arena at 1700mmr and get absolutely destroyed by some randoms. Coincidentally these same randoms are worthless outside of arenas. They go from ppl who are impossible to fake cast to people who backpedal and click their spells.
@@Min-gy8zu you can still determine the players skill level to some degree. These arena pros suddenly backpedaling and moving with arrow keys in a duel doesn't make sense.
Only at the end with Torsten/Modhack/etc. Most of the top for AT/Warmaen was and is legit
The CR here is Vitalic's Rogue CR. He has been running it since Classic Era, it has its own unlocker, supports all specs and has advanced PvP mechanics.
It is by far the best combat routine for WOTLK available. However it's pretty exclusive and underground.
To prevent dodging could you go sit in one of the open world arena? Would that trick them into thinking your already in a match? Or would it just show the zone name instead?
They can just program the bot to see when you have the arena buff
@@ozmcsween No they can't lol.
League can't fix it so blizz unlikely
@@xkd495 But its scripting, and if you have the name of each POI; how could you not? Wouldn't you just have to whitelist them?
In classic you still have to queue by talking to the goblin guys so unfortunately you can't do this 😞
Do you think this is happening in BGs as well? I’ve stopped taking cyclone as a Druid because almost every time I try to use it it gets kicked in a millisecond. Not half way through the cast but at the same time I press the button to cast it.
Probably just bad
@@stirfry2076 Dont listen to stirfry, he's probably a Loser who's doing pride events and thinks he's cool but is actually just a disappointment to his whole family and bloodline.
Gaming developers need to use AI to prevent AI from AIing their games. We need to figure out what’s possible as far as human reaction, attention and prediction when it comes to playing a game so that protective AI within the game can identify when a non-human activity occurs. Because circumstances exist where people get “lucky” or are so skilled they push the limits of what’s humanly possible, there also needs to be a high degree of tracking and cataloging the frequency of anomalies occurring
In vanilla tbc we would dodge at rank 1 but “dodging” just meant not queueing into comps that are risky to play against and give only 1-2 rating per win, or counter comps. We wouldn’t scout but we heard of other teams scouting with level 1 alts to see if particular arena team members were online on other servers
The worst about this is that I never know for sure if I lost because I suck or that I got cheated. It's so corrosive to my feeling of accomplishment and being able admit my own mistakes.
Bro, what’s your rank? I can safely say that 99% of Venruki’s subs (including me, and most likely you) won’t ever encounter those giga-bots, if they do exist.
This right here is why the relaunch of classic will never be the same as it was in 08/09. Miss those times. Endless queues and people relying on their own skill. Funnest PVP I ever had in the history of wow was S8 on blackrock.
Venruki as a player of wow for almost 15 years now and being super competitive, i 100% agree with you brother, add-ons slowly killed this game - i remember the first arena season ever where it was PURE talent. I miss. i miss.................. miss those days. 🥺
I run around on my prevoker to see how he moves as well, I call it healing parkour. I remember early honor buddy and its advancement, at first they did nothing so they were obvious then they moved but didn't fight, I think that's where we ended Wrath as I recall or the next stage where they fought some but were bad. I think the worst for retail was WoD, had the scripting bots, kick bots, and the honor farming bots. To this day I do bot checks, I haven't played since S1but I don't get the feeling in retail I had back when bots were common. They keep covering up how they're detected and, eventually, the only way to tell will be the precision of their spells and not observationally.
The only way to curb dodging teams is mandatory match ups for the top teams. And no more rating if you beat the same low tier teams too many times. Then there should be panalties for alt f4 to get out of bad ques
Blizzard gives 0 care about integrity. This game is just neckbeards stroking their epeen.
The idea that Blizzard can only catch bots if they are reported by players is an absolute joke. It's really disheartening to know that WoW was once a test of skill in some aspects, but now Blizzard is only interested in commercialization.
Indeed! I mean he could've just sent all proof to blizzard directly but he went out of his way to upload the video here. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Buying the bot as soon as I can find my credit card. Nice views and ad-clicks tho!
botters are paying customers in blizz's eyes and thats all that they care.
@@dennisdahlstrand1147 Sounding like it's not a problem, cheers to you. Keep paying that WoW subscription.
I've never "cheated" in online games besides honorbuddy for honor gear and leveling alts back in MoP-Legion (I hate leveling more than once per expansion). I got banned 6 months for botting leveling in Legion and have not touched it since. I can't even imagine why it would be fun to have a bot do stuff for you in PvP. I'm an avid arena player and multi-glad on 4 melee classes (I'm not r1 material but decent at some stuff for being old) but the fact I can do plays now and then is what makes it satisfying. To not have that? Only to win at all costs with a bot? I will never understand :D
Same dude. Got the 6 month hammer for using honorbuddy in MoP😂alooooot of people did. Im so glad it wasnt permanent. Never gonna cheat ever again. Even if its just for mining or farming honoe
I've been playing Apex Legends lately and not many top level players actually play the "true base version game". It's all scripts/macros/closet cheating in order to get their name one step closer to making money from doing it. There's too much money to be made for anyone to actually play fair these days. This is basically why children heavily involved in sports with parents pushing them towards the big leagues get them on pharmaceutical regimes at an early age. Anyone can grind their ass off till their body quits...so now people just resort to pushing max human potential in order to gain an unfair advantage. Same concept applies in online gaming...drug enhancers and tech cheating/cheating within the boundaries.
That rogue bot is actually insane.
I remember the most egregious botting back in the day was kick bots or spell reflect bots this is some next level stuff
Same shit that was happening on Warmane (wotlk private server) with the scripted bots. You can spectate any arena match or rewatch them from in-game, pretty cool feature btw...BUT it gave you an opportunity to see high ranked matches and even witness these blatantly exploited bot systems. The warrior bots were pretty insane.
I'm pretty sure predicting is not possible. Probably the guy who made this script video, he actually knows how to play, and recorded some footage where he just actively tried to predict fears/hoj just so he could say the script is doing it. No script can actually predict the future, especially not in arena which is pretty chaotic.
World of CheatCraft
Different story but crazy situation too was when my buddy and I decided to make twink TBC 70 characters back in MoP maybe. We started queueing for Arenas in 2s and started getting matches against people who have been doing this for years. Well the people doing this sucked and we started smoking everybody winning like 90% of games and we eventually moved to threes after finding another twink to run 3s. Not only did people stop queuing but they also threatened the new guy healing us because we were destroying their ratings and brackets.
Its a smaller tight knit community so they all knew each other. They told our new 3s healer to throw games against specific teams or they wouldn't pay for his wow sub anymore. We didn't know this at the time but he told us after he did it a few times and I asked him what was up. He apologized and my buddu and I left twinking after that and leveled up our characters.
What people don't know is that if you twinked and did arenas and got a high rating you could level up while still in the season and when you hit max level you would get placed at the end of the season like you participated normally and we got titles from it. We only ever did it that time because I thought it was fucked up but I still dont know if people know about that or if you can still do it.
I think weakaura is the most game breaking addon. Yeah you can do basically everything with it but it also prevent people from thinking. DBM was always enough back in the days. Nowadays we need something like "don't release" to release correctly so spells can reset.
That’s nothing compared to PvP now. The AI bots for PvP are so good you literally don’t touch the keyboard. It plays the game for you and then you use your mouse to exit the arena after it’s done.
On that last clip with the rogue blinding the trinket, you can even notice how the bot turns him around 180 to blind and the guy ends up slipping off the rope because he lost control for that brief moment while he was holding W to run across.
Ah yes Wotlk where Blizzard really wants you to have a "social" experience.
When you sign for arena you commit, shouldn't be allowed to leave the que, if you do you lose the rating
Great video, thank you for bringing this to a lot of viewers. Hopefully blizzard can get on top of this!
lmao. Blizzard don't care as long as they get their money.
The reason classic is so popular I think is because you can still see what's going on on your screen. I know it's a thing I noticed right away playing classic.
Ziqo clowned me on his stream when I said people were running bots again. Maybe he looked into it :p
Yea, anyone doing bgs in wrath should be able to see the swarm of them using the very basic and cheap bots that run the similar paths every bg. Last sota bg I did had 4 very basic rogue bots on must be using the free scripts sat on me whole game I was heals when a person got nearby would target them for half a second and right back to me when they got out of range, every kick was used on cd so stopcasting macro would get all 4 kicks at once not a single rogue even bothering to have poisons applied on the weapon just sickening really.
Ziqo is total braindead guy who are streaming just for money , he have 0 passion in his job or game. i personaly dont like him at all
Ziqo is a cheater that's why he clowned you. Snutz and other big streamers out there
ruclips.net/video/cZ1dj__m6HE/видео.html
I suspect this also happens at low rating. I don't play higher than 2.2k, usually much lower even. Still, between the relatively easy games, I run into low rated rogues that do a few things really well: They almost always get my fear with cloak of shadows in a way that I can't avoid. Besides that, occasionally a warrior just does such insane unhealable damage that I just don't know where it's coming from. I think they're using rotation bots as well. My rogue also tends to get hit by a shout INSTANTLY on vanish, by these warriors.
Average skill of people has gone up massively just relax there's no conspiracy here
Even as a kid I never cheated, I enjoyed the challenge.. Has nothing to do with being a kid but having a certain mind set.
Agreed
I remember this happening all the way back in WoD and is the reason I refuse to run Arena. I know it may not be that prevalent people say at lower ratings, but you’d be wrong if you think that. It’s even more noticeable at low ratings. I played against the same Warlock who used a rotation bot and to this day still never got banned. The reason I say it was obvious is, his toon occasionally would do some weird shit while casting and almost bug out as if the bot didn’t know what to do. He would pull off Microsecond CCs and I even ran into him in RBGs and the bot was able to keep FULL continuous dot rotations on our entire team without fail.
classic is dying, im hoping season of mastery 2 isnt placed at such a shit time, because i would gladly play it, i already liked SOM 1 but the second one has alot of potential, i feel like it would bring back a resurrgence of classic pvp and it wont be dogshit, also this is what happens when you ignore cheaters and botters and ect, when i played on skyfury (the fresh wotlk server) there was a bot in scholzar basin, since launch day of wotlk (well after that bot hit lvl 80) he has been in there almost 24/7 grinding materials, reported him multiple times, noting, ignored.
As someone that enjoys all aspects of competitive gaming I have to say cheating is beginning to kill that enjoyment factor. Sadly there are only two realistic options that could potentially fix the problem one bing making it a crime to cheat considering it is knowingly ruining an IP and the second being hoping AI anti cheat is the saving grace.
Took Kickbotting to another level
ruclips.net/video/X4zBx0cG3Ak/видео.html old shiet nothing new
Venruki, Snutz, and the Crew losing their side hustle selling glad accounts. You love to see it
Here's the worst part. Are you ready????
Some people who sell carries to glad for over $2000 a carry, BOT, do no work, and make over $15,000 a month.
Nah, there isn't that much of a market. Maybe S1 but wotlk arena is pretty dead, just the same few teams duking it out and dodging their countere.
I've been back to wotlk for 3 weeks now and for sure there are some people using a kickbot. Sometimes when I notice it, I try to cast something and instantly interrupting my own cast and I still get kicked haha, 100% kickbots.
I also agree on the addon part. Blizzard should fix the UI more so we can track the buffs and debuffs better. I absolutely hate using WA and with all the modifiers these days there are so plenty. Hence why I dislike pvp in retail. That's not the only reason, but just commenting this because of me agreeing to your argument about addons
I imagine most of the people playing wrath arena came from warmane. Damn near everyone on there was a scripter.
There are bots n cheaters for sure. But wow pvp is nothing compared to like aion where u have sometimes over 50+ skills n pots to use in one fight. I played warmane wotlk and pvp in wow is braindamage ez
Yea, shitty place.
@@Sch1n89 Hows your rating in classic wrath rn?
@@anttihakkarainen1520 he conveniently doesn't "try" or "care" or just won't respond now 😂
Arguably the worst part about this is how videos like that are in public for everybody to see being used in competitive game modes and blizzard seems to just not care. impressive
I dont think they are easy problems to fix
Queue dodging and sniping happens a LOT in RBGs too, it's all you see when you reach a certain bracket
I imagine even more so since WHO TF DOES RBGS IN 2023? lmaooo
Even without the bots, this just shows you how ridiculously broken rouges are.
Rogues weren't as strong in s7, s8 compared to prev seasons.. Not to mention glyph of envenom which was shortly in game back in the day
@4:10 doesn't appear offline option work here? I'm not sure how it works compered to steam, but I always thought it was the same.
pikaboo is watchable bc he has almost no addons
because for pvp you dont need more than gladius and omnicd.
abybody got an idea whether that is an addon or WA which show the back of the target (half-circle) on the ground? (11:18) Thank you in advance.
r u dumb? its literally part of the cheat........
I'll be honest I don't think the dodging and sniping is a problem. They've just made it easier to know when to stop playing. They don't want to go up against multi rank 1 PvPers because they're not interested in proving some competitive epeen, they just want the r1 title like you said.
You know people bot in retail right? 50% of streamers do
... Even pika has been accused of using the rogue bots many times by pulling crazy moves while playing one handed or while reading chat.
Cdew orb botted in mist of panda and used excuses to blame blizzard.
All you have to do is tell the bot to NOT do it perfectly and turn down some setting to make it looks more realistic.
Not all players that bot are bad. Some are actually amazing at the game but it makes streaming and carrying easier.
@BirthofEcstasy and I know GSE is a thing. Which allows you to make macros that WoW doesn't allow based on TOS.
Macros don't auto kick at 80% of the cast, stun as soon as your buffs fall or before a druid can even visually see that they shifted forms on their screen, dispell as soon as you press a buff button. I could go forever on the easy things $15 bots people use constantly.
This isn't specific to wotlk arena. This problem is just people in general now. The world is full of honourless degenerates and no matter what you do or where you go you cannot escape it
It amazes me people pay to play a game and they have weakauras do everything for them even the world first races they all use weakauras these top tier players are only as good as the plug ins they use lol
Wrong. The game is made with addons in mind. It’s not the top end players fault when they aren’t responsible for the addons the devs specifically design around. If you remove addons (which I think should be a thing) then the game gets made a bit easier with less one shot mechanics. But they use it because the games literally designed around which they’ve stated they don’t like.
tell me you dont know ANYTHING about weakauras, without telling me you dont know anything about weakauras.
the last time a weakaura played the game for you was archimonde mythic in HFC. after that blizz restricted what WA can show you. and now in dragonflight blizzard implemented hidden auras that are not trackable via weakauras.
these world first raiders are way better than you and i will ever imagine. they even world first raids in ff14 or currently diablo 4.
Strange.
Anytime my mate enters an arena, they become offline.
Was it fixed?
It's now a month after wrath classic was shut down anyways.
they had rogue bots like this back in wod call vitalics, i knew a guy that was in range to get rank 1 title from using it before he got banned.
Speaking on addons... I remember how much shit talk streamers using GladiatorLossa would get. It would be paraded on arenajunkies as if they were cheating. Now Mes Weakauras is a staple in PvP and if you're not using it you're at a 200+ rating disadvantage.
Rogue animations look so badass when played to perfection :o
Reminds me of the baddass pvp music videos that took 5 hours of dueling, rehersing, staging, just to get 2 decent clips out of something resembling what this bot can do every game :(
These are really good evidence for an full account closure. Botting is really harmful for the gaming industry but people just wants to get the most easiest way to achieve their goals.
That rogue bot is crazy, man really put some work into that. Some nice work my guys keep it up.
Yeah, can't say I'm surprised to see the botting level presented in this video. I experienced these "insane R1 moves" from otherwise totally average players on a daily basis throughout the season, especially at top level.
I'm seeing it way too often in low cr (1330-1500)
I started to notice way too many people are silencing me before my first penance bolt, or just getting frame perfect cyclones and pollymoprhs for it to be a coincidence
Way too many feral druids rogues and warriors keep doing a weird jerky left to right motion, and those are the people that are impossible to heal through
I really wanted to believe it was a git gud issue on my part, but It's just so blatenly obvious because too many people are doing this now
Is there a class or comp that isn't affected as much by these bots and is still playable? I struggle a lot with disc priest around 2.4 last season. after seeing this video i don't know what to think.
I was playing Priest / Rogue, Couldn't beat Resto Druid / Rogue. Went on my 1500 rated Hunter and took like 24 points from the Rank 1 druid / rogue team. They were over 2300. They probably only get 2 points per win. I thought it was hilarious. I also had a blue bow. The community is just to small not much you can do about it. I don't even play mage and got R1 on Endless before TBC an Wrath came out.
Next to dodging, sniping and queuing at 4am in the morning for wintrading; Gcdhacks, scripts and bots were widely used by former and current "wow-celebrities" from EU back in the original WotLK too. The game was hardly ever truly competitive because of it.
I agree about Add-on clutter, I used to do it myself, then all of a sudden one day I just cut back to like a few essential mods and said F all the BS.
This is really sad to see. Ven has always been an awesome PvPer and a total gentleman the whole time, and he's talking about just raid logging because of how bad it has gotten. Blizzard needs to buff their UI customization and just remove a bunch of LUA functionality.
Ive been an addon enjoyer since my Cata days. However they have become ridiculous over the years, partly because of the game itself adding so much to track with no default end game method to track it. I would 100% be down for a few more UI upgrades to cover the truely lacking things and then just removing the addon API. Currently Retail is pretty good, just not quite there.
@Venruki why did you get rid of your recent retail wow cheat is ruining retail vid? With the guy top on 8 chars promoting his bot. Im intrigued did blizz get you to take it down?
just speechless.....Good on you Ven that you still care about the game and community and post videos like this!
bro he literally wintraded with 10 other players for 5s #1 this season KEKW Bless venruki the savior of wotlk
@@digital6953 Proof?
As I remember in original Wotlk some used no gcd on Arena in 8th season, enchance shamans and hunters mostly. So its not that bad right now, right?)
Rem ove ability to use addons and you cant bot anymore, would suck to lose some addons, but rather lose addons to get ridd of bots, bots can only be made because openings addons got.
The thing is, restricting addons won't affect bots because bots already unlock the wow api to use stuff that addons aren't allowed or can't use. And to detect bots it's just an infinite cat and mouse game, your best bet would be incentivising player reports and actually having more manual common sence human checks based on them. Probably costs a bit more but it doesn't take much more than 80 IQ to see if people are que dodging/sniping, botting etc if you have a report or simple algorythm that just says "hey, this is sus, look at this guy for like 5 minutes"
the costs would probably actually be huge for some games
@@avopeac6300 yeah, but imagine the budget at continuesly rolling out new detection methods for the meriad of unlockers out there, the research needed to actually find them, find a way to detect them and then as soon as you roll it out they find a slight alternative and you get to do it all over again.
They doing this on live too?
Thanks for bringing attention to this. Not only to bots, but to addons as well. I so agree with you, that wow streams can be so confusing to watch. People would get better at the game without these addons
Very interesting, thanks. Regarding addons, I think something you miss is the question of accessibility which they can answer for gamers who suffer from a disability or some condition. Addons like Clique (click to cast), WeakAuras (highly visible icons, aural cues), etc. can be a godsend, and I know for myself that I literally could not play WoW without addons. So I do think a balance has to be drawn which walks the line between functionality for certain users and unfair advantage for others.
I dont get this Classic thingy... it's Classic, so when will the expansions stop being added?
Holy shit I don't play wotlk anymore nor pvp, but I've heard a lot lately about cheating in arena, but I didn't know it was this bad, holy shit. Another thing that I do agree on is that seeing streams of wow is mostly cancer because of all the addons that are available. Sure, most addons don't mess up your UI as much as others, but I do agree that most addons shows too much info about for example boss mechanics and other stuff like class rotations like when to press what etc. Funny thing is I remember not too long ago there was some huuuge drama on FFXIV on the race to world first where the guild who beat the boss first got accused of cheating and when looking at their POV of using these hacks they were just simple DBM or BigWig timers.
Every alt-f4 should give you like a 3 hour queue lockout, and within a timeframe before hard resetting (maybe 2 weeks) every subsequent alt-f4 increases your lockout period additively. eg after the 3rd dodge theres a 9 hour queue lockout period. I dont even play wow but this seems like it would be good for competition and not really punish people dodging without malicious intent. The only downside I can forsee with this is for the busy gamer-parent or likewise people with responsibilities tied to erratic situations. However I imagine theyre not really in top of bracket, so to avoid the (at this time) unneeded consequences for people like that, it should probably only be implemented in the smaller populations of bracket.
I dont get why people cheat in games...I only cheat the government, and the banks.
This was the case back in like late Wrath. It's not about being the best player, it's about selling accounts. Especially on private servers
Whats the name of the addon that shows cc over the targets character?
This was a very interesting video. I had no idea of some of the things that are going on right now when it comes to cheating. That being said, the very last clip you showed where it looked like the character's camera was bugging out and it looked sus.. I can say the same has happened to me where I've had a keybind on my mouse and I'm sitting there trying to move and spam that button on my mouse, making my character look like it's bugging out. Not trying to say that the person wasn't cheating or something, but that was the first thing I thought of when I saw that clip
The astonishing think is that those players never gets ban, while i flame 2 games in solo shuffle and get suspended for 10 days.
I'm playing both WTLK and DragonF. and rogue hackers in WTLK are 80% even in low rating, sap-trinket-instant blind ALWAYS happen
I truly hate cheaters... Why am I the only one playing fair play?
Interesting video I didn’t know. I started playing BC up to legion took a break, came back got all my chars to 125, took another break to only find out everything is wiped to lvl 50 now.
Found out classic wrath started in this phase got my 80 priest, I had a huge late start but luckily everything was free at the end. So I got all my furious gear half off :) now knowing this idk if I wanna play next season or just to save all my points, and buy everything half off. The only set I like is going to be next phase it’s pretty sexy looking.
Bruh ive been feeling this in retail too any chance its also there?
I'm just curious as I noticed something odd on my rogue way back in mop in arena... Has anyone tried vanishing at the start just vanish at the very start of the game after gates open, not even stealth... I swear it makes them stop playing idk if it's still like this...