World Of Warcraft Is Too Complicated For New Players
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2023
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when he talked about that guy who sits in lfg all day, plays one game, gets kicked, and gets back in lfg, i felt that so hard.
The community is toxic. I was on ss and there were a hunter who played badly. He used all his défensives right at the beginning and other miss plays. There were another guy talking shhit about him. I tried to explain him that hunter was probably newbie who's learning the game but didn't want to understand.
Yep that was me ALL Shadowlands. Just wanted to play man. I felt that too 😂
just play healer. Play till you find a friend. Then convince them to heal you and swap back to being a dps. big brain time investment
@@aAS-wi9ksso if he's "learning" the game. Don't fucking play ranked then. Queue some BG's, learn your rotation, learn how to not be a clicker, read your abilities, play arena skirmishes. Don't fucking queue ranked if you don't have a fucking clue what the fuck you're doing. It's that simple.
@@aAS-wi9ksye i think to its not the game just the community
Everyone thinks he is r1 even while hardstuck 1.5...
I also see this im shuffle
Everytime i play an alt through 1.4-1.8
Its the most toxic elo
Always negativ winrate ppl cry about all other in the lobby and its never their Fault...
And if u check them
1.5 since 10 years..
But its always the mates
I am a new player in WoW and this speaks to me on a personal level. I also found that the 60 boost makes things more confusing because you don't know the progression of you skills along the way. Starting new was the best thing I have done when it comes to learning the game.
All my free boost are sitting there cause you don't learn a character getting all the info at once.
Same here as a new player i regret both boosts i bought and those are the pj i play less because i dont feel like i know how to play them
Who would’ve guessed that playing a game would make you better at it!
When I first started in Legion, I boosted my first warrior after about 15 levels in Elwynn. I was completely lost. My friend told me to go make a new toon and level it properly, and I understood the game so much better. Boosts really are much better when you've understood the game fully, and are just levelling alts of the same class.
New players using a 60 boost is the worst thing a new player could EVER do.
The meat-and-potatoes of WoW is the leveling, the exploration, the slow build up. That's MMO in a nutshell.
It is NOT for the instant-gratification crowd.
As a zoomer that joined the game in bfa, I think if blizzard added a "tutorial" for new accounts that when they hit lvl 10 they ask what kind of end game content they want to do so they game can teach them how that segment of end game works. Like showing the bg tabs and explain honor and cong gear and why its important. This would help when they are gearing during the leveling process.
Ya even as someone whos played on and off since vanilla its strange to always come back and have to read all about how to gear that particular patch for hours just to play the game (play the game as in raid/m+/arena/whatever you actually wanna do)
LOL the tutorial is so fucking bad. It’s the worst thing about this game. It doesn’t teach u shit. U don’t know what attributes are important for your char, what’s the smartest thing to play to level , how to enter battlefields , how to chat with other people ( HELLO THEY DONT EXPLAIN HOW YOU WHISPER SOMEBODY??) all these things are normal for us because we played this shit all our lives but trust me a casual can not get into this game I tried and they always get caught up on little shit like how do I select timelines and oh u can’t select timelines with a new account u first need to do it properly it’s so fucking dumb
Plus story wise they have no ducking idea what’s going on in any sort of way because u level so fast u don’t even need to go through the expansions, matter of fact u level so fast u can’t even finish one expansion before you’re max level so ur just in this world in which u have no context of what happened any where because u don’t need to and actually doing it after wards does not reward u with anything
Still need to run a bunch of addons because the game is still balanced around them. Still going to need to learn a 15-20 button rotation.
Game is broken. Start over. I mean it too. Game is entirely unfixable.
@@kevinc8955its like rainbow 6 siege, now theres like 70 operators, some op each patch, unbalanced maps and, ...
And if you dont play for a year and come back there will be 8 new ops ,or worse! be a new player! You would have no idea! And have to either watch youtube a lot to learn or play a lot and lose a lot to learn beside the toxic community which is awful, i guess wow beside its bad new boring lore as asmon said also is the same
I played bfa and shadowlands but quit, i was a tank druid main, later tank demon hunter and did 17-18 key levels at most i tried, but it got so complicated and grinding i felt like i have no time for anything else, watch yt to learn dungeons, do keys for weekly, daily quest, try raids, sub on twitch to get add ons, fight with teamates ( i lost some friends 😂😂😂😂😂😂 they fought w eachother so toxic) and im a 25 years old boy who also studies at the same time, what am i supposed to do? Game all day? And pay for forced in shadowland 2 months sub? ( they forced it from 1 month sub to 2 in shadowlands, idk how it is now) am i supposed to have fun? No tnx blizzard 😂😂😂😂
Thank you for using your platform to highlight these issues. I've been playing wow on and off since 2006. I'm the definition of a casual but have tried many times to get into retail PvP with no success. In part for the points that you mentioned about the difficulties of finding/forming groups but also because learning how to play by watching y'all PvPers on RUclips is not very helpful at all.
It might be hard for your ears to notice but for someone trying to get into PVP it's nearly impossible to understand what players are saying during arena matches. idk what (if anything) can be done about that but nonetheless it's confusing. When you combine the speed of the game, addon clutter, rotation complexity, and the jibberish coming out of the players mouth (to a newbies ear) then it's impossible for new players to keep up and many (like me) just say "meh, I'm over it."
P.S. I have posted things like this on other videos and I typically get the same type of response "go play another game" and you know what, I did.
Like the PS 🤣🤣
100% mate.
At this point I feel the skillcap in WoW is just who can assign and learn more buttons.
@@toenail5005 Back when I played WoW, I was already arguing that PvP arenas had basically become a programmers contest. Player's skill has zero relevance, it's only about who can get their addons automate the most actions, getting as close to the limits as legally allowed, and sort out their UI to get only the relevation info to them. Addons have turned WoW into a game where the winner is who gets the best at overcoming UI clutter and playing as little of the game herself as possible.
Perhaps I wasn't good at conveying the point, but like OP, I was told that I was just bad and I should play something else. Issues were never addressed, and people who actually agreed with me left.
i am 100% with you, bud. people that say go play another game are a huge part of the problem.
I really don’t get the point of this video. Of course some of the issues pointed out have merit though I think he turned the examples up to 11. Other than that in the example he’s using all I hear is a player wants to play World of Warcraft but does not want to play an MMORPG. It would be like someone saying I want to play CounterStrike but I need it to have a story campaign.
I mean….seriously. It’s a 20 year old game that’s in a dying genre
Also the amount of knowledge needed to actually have fun and progress in arena is insane. You can have everything right, your rotation, gear, addons, etc, and then everything is amplified in arena. Suddenly you have to know a decent amount about every other class, what to trinket, what not to, when to burst, when to run, it’s not a casual game, and I know it’s not meant to be. But. The ceiling is insane
And with Blizzard being more reactive to changes than ever, the result is a constantly shifting meta landscape that only the best and most invested players will be able to cope with. Frankly, it's a skill issue. Blizzard needs to be clear what skill level is expected for the rewards offered.
@@sbsftw4232 exaclty, it's a skill issue, the problem is that you can only become good by spending insane amount of hours in the game, it's a game of knowledge. Comparing to a game like csgo for example where you can have naturally good aim from the get go and it doest take long to learn your few util.
@@dascendexaclty, I got to this 2.4, but at what cost? It took me literraly 400 games to reach 1400 when I first started playing pvp, you need to learn every class every ability, interrupts, addons weak auras my god, not even talking about doing 0 damage because if you start in the middle of the season then everybody has gear and you die instantly without a chance to learn something
@dascend You clearly aren't high level in cs. Game sense is far more valuable than aim. Take Scream for example, best aim in the game, but he's nowhere near the best. Simple takes that crown, because his game sense, positioning and knowledge is untouched. Plenty of better aimers than him, but none as smart. Cs is a far more complicated game than WoW ever will be. WoW is alot more annoying to get into, but being good in cs will take years. Venruki already said it takes months in WoW. 2 totally different things and CS has a far higher skill ceiling, like all shooters do
@@daethmer7834 You would know all of that just by playing the game long enough. Does WoW have to cater to people that just started or only played for a year? Also WoW is still an MMORPG, you need to do something to get gear.. You want a full set handed to you just because you started in the middle of the season? Go play CoD or something else.
If shuffle Q was as quick as other matchmaking games, I'd be in there grinding all the time. 40 min Q times are insane and even 20 min Q times are crazy when you compare a LoL Q to be like 20 seconds lol
Yes
To add to what you said a 40 min Que into a bad lobby...
@@Kanoog You're the problem
@@iiJaRhonNaDeS It's cute when people like you try to be toxic. 😂
Reminds me of a kid on a playground.
@@iiJaRhonNaDeSgo outside stinky
I’ve played this game on & off for 15 years, every time I stop playing & take a break one of the main things that prevents me from wanting to go back is the thought of how complex the game is, if I spend anymore than 6 months away there’s a whole new bunch of stupid systems I need to revise on its like a college degree that never stops. I can’t imagine what it’s like for a completely fresh new player. The only reason I end up playing again is because I forget the suffering & remind myself within 10 mins of playing again, then insta quit.
The game has an identity crisis problem, it doesn’t know what it wants to be or who it wants to be for - so it caters to nothing & nobody. Until it finds that identity (that leadership need to make tough decisions on) it’ll never change, and will die.
I can't imagine what it would be like get into WoW in 2023. The frustration of not knowing enemy abilities, learnt over the lifetime of the game. The add-ons, keybinds, the gearing, the grind, just to be able to "play" and then when you finally get there, it's lackluster, because now your success depends on your teammates who have their own class to contend with, which might be underpowered at the moment, so they're at a disadvantage with no fault of their own.
Add to that the garbage ass story telling , its literally a fucking disaster. To make matters worse , content and cutscenes and everything are deleted. U have to look it up on youtube or wikipedia to "understand" what happened and what LED to bfa "expansion" in the first place. U know... That pre expac event thats obviously fucking removed. Theyre so retarded. Went to ff14 and i wish i made that decision a while ago
if you get into literally any game, you dont do it with the intention of getting to rank 1 immediately. if you do you will do your research anyways. this arguement is just pure bullshit. when there was the pruning, people bashed the game for being too dumb. now that blizz brought back the complexity, its suddenly a problem
@@varadigabor7812 as somebody who joined this patch thats exactly how it went. i joined solo que got oneshot didnt understand anything and decided pvp is not interesting
@@rksworld4405it's frustrating that the first lesson wow teaches you is that you suck. Every other game I've played has a honeymoon period where you feel like you're genuinely improving, but wow just slaps you down over and over and you either rise through it (until bursting week or your spec becomes non meta) or just feel mediocre forever
@@vanyel_etc8695 yeah even tho i am in to 4-5% on raider io i feel like im completly garbage and cant even execute my rotation properly. i wonder how many people are actualy able to do it if this garbage already qualifys for top 5%. its just all too much nonsense.
I started playing WoW in shadowlands. I have two brothers who have been playing for 10+ years. Without them I would of quit within a week. They guided me through the campaign. They taught me everything about PvP. But if it wasn't for them I would of quit this game very quickly. Its a very complex game to get into, but very fun once you get the hang of it. its like you have to know someone who plays this game to hold your hand and help you until you understand what to do.
Its an mmo and a 20 year old one at that. Its very difficult to "uncomplicate it" Funny wow out of many MMOs is the simple one too. Current generation of gamers are just not very familiar with the genre as well.
@@maxpowers4436Gotta disagree with you on that one. FF14 has THE simplest rotations where you dont need ppl explaining you every mechanic. Started with shadowlands aswell and quit after 2 months.
average gamer likes micro>macro. same reason everyone plays league and not dota. games like dota/wow are more so based on your literal knowledge of the game which as a concept you learn much more slowly than micro. you could have never played an fps before but if u sit in the practice range in apex shooting bots for 1 hour each day u could get plat/diamond in a couple weeks/months. no need for external sources like addons/guides. micro is honestly more comparable to a irl sport. theres just much more to macro as a concept and it requires a much greater investment of time. which like venruki said in the tiktok generation that doesnt fly. they want immediate results/gratification. this is coming from someone in their early 20s that knows what people my age typically like to play lol
Back in Burning Crusade when I started, there was that "wow" factor, the mystery and mystique that made the game feel interesting. Like any other game, when players start to incorporate tools and play super efficiently, like it's their job, the game doesn't become fun anymore.
It most certainly is not. Just the talent trees alone would scare anyone off.
I think that the reason WoW has a lot of elitism is just basically what you said, instant gratification, nobody wants to wipe constantly on a boss to teach someone, nobody wants to lose rating teaching someone in arena, ect. I personally enjoy teaching people but I also have a lot of patience. Unfortunately there's just too much now now now these days :/
i mean.. noone's gonna carry your ass and teach you in legue, dota or csgo either...that's for sure.
Well it‘s understandable also in another way that raiding / m+ to get full geared takes a lot of time
This just in, people want their games to be entertaining and not a second job.
Been saying for years I wish more than anything there was a stand alone arena game where you dont have to gear, you can hop on create ur class and play arena. Rewards are cosmetic etc. Would be huge, I know so many people that would play if they could instantly play the game on a even playing field gear wise. I think Blizzard could have really capitalized on a whole different game when they realized the potential of competitive arena.
Yes! I've been saying this for the better part of a decade. Make your character, pick your class, pick you spec, setup your bars, and jump into BGs and Arena. I would play WOW PVP if it was like this. Gear mattering in a competitive pvp mode is the dumbest thing ever. I would be playing PVP right now but I'm not about to dump 200 hours just to level up one character for one spec only to find out that the class/spec isn't viable right now and I suck, and thats even if you can find people to play with.
I dont know if I should say it but theres a pvp only private server. Warmane.very toxic tho. They think they are the best but the best of them would probably reach 1.8k cr max. On retail
@@Switchcasebreak Yea i've herd that most players there are like that, If there was a bigger playerbase id honestly probably try it. Also dont know how stable the servers are/ping/etc. But sucks there is such a good game/game mode stuck inside of a MMO. And the fact there is nothing else like it.
As a new wow player I agree with most the things you said and think this was a great video and take. I love pvp and playing pvp in wow as a new player with honor gear it is so confusing and not having anyone who wants to play with is also difficult because I feel I could learn a lot from people who have played longer getting kicked from solo shuffle teams because I’m new hurts
It is too complicated. But on top of that, there is the fact that ranked modes of pvp devalue all forms of casual pvp, which are just means to get to the ranked modes. And if there are no queues available for the ranked modes (or you happen to be the kind of pvper that doesn't care about ranked gameplay in general), the reasons to log in and play dwindle over time, sometimes rapidly.
Yep. Idk who came to the idea that only getting large amount of conquest only in arena/RBG is a fine idea. Let people play random bg's and for farming honor and conquest but dont force them into ranked
as long as gear is a factor in this game that will likely always be the case. its crazy i can play a random ass korean mmo like elsword and its better there lol. login-talk to vendor within 1 hour of leveling-buy full sparring gear-ready to pvp
@@jaded-harper Pretty similar for FF14. I think it's by job level 30 you can PVP. It's way more simple in terms of player mechanics and you DONT. HAVE. TO. GRIND. TO. BE. SUCCESSFUL.
@@SudoYETI oh yah ive tried ff pvp before but it just didnt hit the same. the gcds feel really bad and theres almost too little amount of buttons. reasons i enjoy wow pvp are similar to why i enjoy dota so much. very complex with extremely high skill ceilings. maybe i didnt play it for long enough though idk
@@jaded-harper yeah part of that is FF14 was not built as a pvp game it was built for its story and Pve there trying to make it better like it recently just got a huge overhaul but even yoship (lead of FF14) said he dose not like the toxicity Pvp can bring so its never been really big for them to work on.
32 skills bound on Holy Priest. 3 items and a mount. 36 keybinds to play this spec. Madness.
Also I bind all 3 clicks... so 39 keybinds.
@@thickums8198this
@@thickums8198 maybe I'm just a boomer, but I much prefer Vanilla or TBC over that shit. While I probably could play that, I wouldn't have the time or inclination to learn any other character.
Easy bro.
We both know eventually youd make an alt and enjoy it.
Thank you for spreading awareness about this Ven. We need the game to be new player friendly to thrive.
Ironically it was thriving the most in vanila through to wotlk when nobody was trying to "make it more accessible to new players" but i dont ecpect you to be able to understand why because you hear a sentemce like " making things more accessible for new players" and you think that the chamges that encompass it are actually making it more fun to play fir new players. They dont, and what it fies is not what it intends.
As a new player i can most definitely say that yes it’s so complex for a beginner and as of these last 4 months up to this point i can say it got easier in a tiny way but still so overwhelming for me , completely ditched retail the past 2 weeks and a half and went to classic which is less overwhelming in a sense but hopefully with time i will say it does get easier, great video man❤❤❤
yeah i'd say that was a good call, Wrath is a pretty beginner-friendly expansion, it has some complexity in the specs here and there but it's not super crazy like retail and overall there's less silly, extraneous systems in the game that don't really need to be there
Yea but in vanila pvp people like this guy get wrecked because its slower and more about outsmarting the enemy rather than memorizing a sequence of actions.
I feel like there's so many aspects in the game that only applies for pve but feels totally out of place in PVP (arena). Like 3v3 could literally be its own kind of side game for WoW, all this gearing, lvling and side work outside of PVP is so annoying if you just want to play pvp (arena), especially when you haven't touched the game in a while. Also people having an advantage against you in arena (a skill based gamemode) because they have done more work outside the arena and got better gear feels so dumb. I get that WoW has always been this way and if you play regularly, its not a problem. But if they want new or old players to return, there must be a change. WoW already takes so much time and money for you to play...
It's an mmorpg. They have gear. If you want a competitive pvp experience play dota or better yet a fighting game. They're plug and play. Mmos aren't.
EXACTLY, the start of season 2.... oh my goodness, I had to drop 2 characters because I was sick of the grind. BG honor, crafted gear, bloody tokens, sparks of life ECT plus long as hell Que time for DPS. Do all of that and start doing the Arena honor cap for vault RNG shit. So even after doing all of that you can still get a horrible vault and be behind.
@@Sammysapphira I have focused on shooters, played a lot of competitive games, maxing my rank in games like cs, valorant, overwatch. When you have reached the maximum rank, there's nothing left to do unless you want to become pro. Also I think people (including myself) like WoW mostly because of the gameplay, Dota or similar games is nothing like WoW, so the "go play plug and play games" doesn't work. If you like to grind gear for months, you do you, but me and others should still be able to have our opinion. Some people just want the arena experience and not the full mmorpg pve casual shit.
@@dascend There in lies your problem you want X without doing Y. Its an MMORPG its a game genre. Game genres exist for a reason. Game genres have things that are intrinsic to them. Reminds me of people who want the best gear without doing the hardest content. If there is enough demand out there for an MMO that is PVP only without gearing them someone will make it.
People seem to forget that wow was never meant to be a PVP game it was always added on in the back end, yes even in vanilla. WoW is a PVE game first the "PVE casual shit" is the fkn game. Sounds like instant gratification shit which should be out of MMOs.
@@maxpowers4436 you can have pvp as a side game that's completely separate from the main mmorpg game. why are fucking pet battles so far removed from the rest of the game but pvp isnt? pvp is separate and should remain separate. but the devs and the 'iT's aN MmOrpG!!!" crowd ruin the game and ruin the accessibility of the game.
I played for the first 7 years of WoW mostly in PvP. I loved it. So I tried to come back about a year ago. It didn't work out for all the reasons you mentioned. Their problem is that as players leave WoW pvp, no one is replacing them. I'd love to play WoW pvp again, but they just make it too difficult.
It’s not even just new players.. I was an experienced pver and the pvp learning process was intense
I hope the devs see this. Great video! You should do more content like this.
Subtle consequence of the arena getting inaccessible to new players: only the diehards are left, and because ratings are based on proportions, it starts to become a struggle to reach levels that would have been relatively easy to hit in the past.
True, I'm what some would call a lifetime Rival (I usually hover around 1800 to 2000 rating), and season 2 of DF just feels SO insanely sweaty. Every solo shuffle match I join even at around 1500 rating has people running around on gladiator mounts, even season 1 DF glad mount. I don't wanna compete with 2400+ skilled players when I'm trying to just get 1800 for my elite set and dip. I understand when the season JUST came out I will see some gladiators climbing, but it still feels more than usual and extremely sweaty and frustrating.
My *speculation* is that a disproportionate number of *characters* in arena are played by a much smaller number of actual players. Once you’ve gotten good at the overall arena meta, the specific character you play isn’t hugely important for progress in the low-to-mid brackets, and so there’s plenty of incentive to just level up other characters and progress on those. But the actual algorithms for determining ratings are still predicated on the idea that each character is an individual unit of progress.
@@davew2040x This is true, and it is what I've been doing. I'm trying to get as many characters for 1800 for the elite set as possible, that's my only goal, so while I'm climbing I dunk on very low rated players even when I'm playing a new class. But, I'm not that good either, so I'm getting absolutely stomped by gladiator alts.
@@DankMemes-xq2xm I wonder if, rather than gating the set transmogs, they should move to a progress-based system where you just progress more quickly if you win at higher ratings. That would at least encourage people to keep trying even if they feel like 1800 is unattainable.
@@davew2040x Maybe, but also they should make it so you can't fall below each 100 rating, so if you get 1500+, you can't go below 1500, if you get 1600, you can't fall below 1600, etc. Nothing feels worse than starting the day at 1700 rating, trying to push 1800, and ending the day with 1590 rating (this totally never happens to me, haha, nope :P)
You are absolutely right but it’s not just too complicated for new players but also returning players and even casuals.
SS is fantastic. It’s a good break from BGs which still my favorite game mode.
The thing going for WOW is that there isn’t another game where pressing buttons feels so good and impactful
What is SS? I didn't play since Cata and came back to play a bit of Dragonflight.
@@Nexowl Solo Shuffle
I am incredibly thankful my friends had thr patience to teach me wow pvp. Picked the game up last year, played a ron of random bgs but was too nervous to play any arenas. Friends helped me get set up with a few useful addons, showed me how to look up what gear and stats people were running, and then ran 2s and 3s with me so I could learn arena pace and positioning. Dont think I'd still be playing if it wasnt for the homies.
Wow pvp died after tbc and wrath. People like this shmuck are only playing pvo because it lets them memorize large segments of combat whereas in classic it was slower and much more about thinking on the fly.play and counterplay. Not memorization.
Yeah this stuff is insane. Even as someone that's played the game since late Wrath; spectating players that are really good at arena tends to teach me almost nothing. There's so much BS on the screen due to add-ons and the absurd number of things that have to be tracked, that even just watching someone else it feels like you need to slow it down 3x to process all the information.
Theres nothing to learn, they basically play an online guide from memmory with little counterplay. This is because counterplay allows bad players to loose and good players to win so holinka made it so that its more about following a meta set of conditions and actions to win and not player skill.
This is so oddly well-timed. Im a new player and just did my first ever raid using lfr. It was super overwhelming and I ended up just leaving the group
Ur a noob then
Btw I'm not saying wow shouldn't have hard or complex fights but the fact that the game went from dodging red circles on the ground to complex raid mechanics without any explanation at all is really confusing when you're new.
@@DrWiley-fm3ik I've got to tell you that doing lfr is a lot harder than normal. That's why when you wipe in LFR everybody gets a stacking buff that increases damage and healing unlike the other difficulties. I can tell you that, at least this raid, is way easier than it seems, most bosses are simply kill adds, stay on big circle, leave poop pool away from raid... and that's it.
@@Chakafuyo21 Not if you are doing normal with the same type of people as in LFR.
LFR is easiest per tuning, but people refuse to "do anything right" with the argument "You don't pay my sub".
In normal, people usually take the game SLIGHTLY (not a lot) more seriously and respect other peoples time and effort too.
Normal hence becomes "easier" due to the peoples attitudes and behaviours, not because of the tuning.
If people have the same mindset as they do in LFR: You'll have a terrible time in every difficulty.
@@Manicca yeah, that's what I meant, but in my mind that is something that most people know, so my bad there. It's true that lfr difficulty comes from people that doesn't give a F and the rest of the difficulties comes from every member taking care of themselves and their responsabilities.
i got my girlfriend to start playing wow several years ago, i wanted to share all my game knowledge and tell her about all the things you can do in the game. it didnt take my long to realize it was overwhelming her and i had to tone it back, i shifted from my "min/max speedrunner do everything efficiently" mentality to a new mentality where i was just letting her discover things on her own. The only problem is the game is so huge that it takes a long time for someone new to fully grasp the scope of the game and the goals of the game.
a lot of warcraft's design makes sense to those attuned to the classic style of mmo's, it's real tough to just integrate into WoW's design without any sort of idea of how mmo's are usually/optimally played beforehand and there aren't any other products out there to get exposure from
Are you referring to the part where it consumes time to level up and gear up your character? Because Classic is actually easier than Retail in game mechanics. Retail feels too bloated with content that's irrelevant and settings.
A good PVE spec rotation to me is Elemental Shaman, the core of the spec is like 5-6 abilities (lightning bolt, lava burst, flame shock, chain lightning, earth shock/elemental blast, earthquake), it's not too few buttons but not a lot too, it's fun to play and the animations are goated.
I agree with most of your points, but I think a huge problem in wow is that the players you have to play with hilariously overestimate what amount of knowledge you need to play the game. Showing that arcane mage rotation example is interesting because its complicated but you dont actually need to be able to do that perfectly to succeed in most of the games content. You could go on like in that video probably much much longer about the intricate and complex optimizations of most every competitive game but you dont need all of those just to play. You dont need all of those to play wow either but the players force you to be able to do that even in content where it doesnt matter or they kick you out. Like you could easily do lower level keystones or normal raids or whatever as a new player with pretty suboptimal gameplay but the players wont let you. I think thats a huge problem with the game too.
Look. My girlfriend is a gamer she’s been gaming since childhood. She wanted to get into wow. Literally me playing since bc…. Coaching her through EVERYTHING and it still was hard for her. It ales way too much. All I learned is how many things you need to even be half decent at the game. Explaining and guiding was grueling. P.s. she’s not dumb
Because the game was never meant to be played that way. You create a character. You explore the world. You discover all the little things you can to do in the game, like fishing or crafting, or battlegrounds, bit by bit. Every once in a while you discover something new and exciting. It's called WORLD of Warcraft for a reason. The best way to play is to play like you're going on an adventure.
@@Knightgil Correction. that's how the game USED to be played. The current community and game direction actively work against it in a lot of different areas.
Back in the day, leveling was slow so that you had time to ease into your class. Zones were somewhat barren/empty but it piqued your interest to find the relevant points. Now the world is overly populated with enemies everywhere to the point there's barely any breathing room when moving about, all zones are scaled to your level meaning you can't pick the comfortable challenge for yourself (eg. green quests vs yellow vs red) you get a ton of abilities really quickly, you get to max level too fast, and once you are there, the rotation and complexity of the game skyrockets. In order to play the game the way you are describing, you actively have to play opposite to how the game and the other players train you or expect you to play. I agree it's not how the game was meant to be played in the past, but it absolutely is how it is meant to be played today.
One change id like is once you level though a toon cap/story all alts get a 100% xp bonus while leveling
As someone who played vanilla -> cata, returned to classic and tried out retail. I logged into retail, couldn't figure out what the hell was going on and went back to classic.
This is a great example of why i think there should be a tournament like realm where i dont have to worry about the pve , rp, lore, leveling etc and can just queue. I pay my montly sub, let me play the way i want.
Basically you want another game paying for the current game.
@rickroll9705 I don't think we are on the same page. What I'm saying is let me have a tournament realm to play on separately from live where I don't need to worry about pve. I'm not referring to paying more or separately. I meant that as an active player I think that I should be able to play the way that gets me the most value.
@@rickroll9705 like classic and WOTLK??? I agree with aaronr, we need a tournament realm, just straight PVP.
@@rickroll9705 i mean basically yah lol. whats so wrong with that? and b4 u say "go play a different game" there is no other game like wow arena with the same levels of complexity. its wow arena or bust at least for this specific genre of gameplay
Well you did think wrong, again. You want a server which basically focus entirely on intanced pvp basically ignoring the gold farmed to enchant gear in pvp, the professions that makes items for pvp and even raids that may provide useful items to pvp from a game that dedicates most of its development time doing zones and pve dungeons. You want it all gone and put into a vendor that will provide all you need. Basically you want another game, i suggest mobas. The whole concept of the tournament realm was for preparation to tournaments not to eleminate 90% of the game you would gladly pay to skip(which is a huge hint you are addicted)
I've always wondered why PVP was so gated like this. Just make it so that you can get in and play, no levelling, no gear, no enchants. Just a wide range of options to customise gear, maybe something like a loadout. Baseline everyone. Then you can get people into casual and ranked matches.
Solo Shuffle is definitely the way to go. Like you said we're at an age where we just want to log in, queue up for games and be done. I've been able to have SOOO many games with solo shuffle, too many people prior to this were "what's your rating" and didn't want to game.
Now we just need Solo Shuffle RBGs.
Casual - Unranked
Earn: Honor
Solo shuffle 2s
Solo Shuffle 3s
RBGs
Epic RBGs
Ranked
Earn: Honor, Ranking
Solo Shuffle 2s
Solo Shuffle 3s
RBGs
Epic RBGs
Spend Honor on cosmetics.
EVERYONE is in Honor gear, no matter if you gear is low or high. EVERYONE is in honor gear.
You get to choose your loadout of gear so that there is some customisation. Mastery set, Vers set, crit set, balanced set.
Create PVP realms/servers for this purpose.
Log in, choose a race for their racials.
Once in, you are surrounded by training dummies and a training NPC who can take the player through some PVP training.
Bliz to include some more UI additions to replace some important addons.
The training NPC takes the new player through to how to choose their talents, their loadout and setting up their action bar.
OR Tournament realms, just hop and start PVPing.
No levelling or gear grind. Just the highest cap, everyone in the highest pvp gear, gems and enchants available and you queue in with the PVE players who have their gear.
Its and MMO RPG. Wow was never a PVP game first sorry. It was always a PVE game that added PVP. This scenario you are describing is instant gratification which is a very modern mindset which is the antithesis to MMOs. Well should be anyway.
@@maxpowers4436 I totally agree that it is and always has been a PVE. There are amazing aspects of the game and one of them is PVP. We're currently in the middle of AWC (hosted by Blizz) and I'm rooting for the GGs to take out this next cup. So Blizzard seem to be behind PVP.
I posted a suggestion in the forum for a PVP realm where you create a max levelled character for the purpose of PVP only. You enter in an arena type area (a lobby) and cannot leave this area, can't trade, no gold, no AH. Training dummies and vendors for honor gear, conquest gear, gems, enchants, transmogs.
Upon creating your character, you're geared with the current season's crafted PVP gear, entry level stuff.
You queue just for PVP. Can still group with friends or randoms but you can't be summoned outside of the area, you can ONLY go into PVP instanced areas.
Accumulate honor to purchase honor gear, accumulate conquest to purchase conquest gear. Use honor and conquest to purchase gems and enchants at different ranks. Use honor and conquest to purchase old pvp gear. Transmog into those old PVP gears.
When you queue, you're queued with everyone else. The difference, is that you're already max level ready for PVP.
How does that sound?
It doesn't interfere with the standard mode, it's just a shortcut to PVP at max level.
Want to try a different racial/class combo? Create one and go.
The thing about lowering the amount of buttons that are required and simplifying rotations is that it also unlocks other classes for people to play. I see things with Shammys all the time and go, "man that looks fun I should level a shaman." then I remember in legion when I wanted to play more than just my mage and try to 20 key with a melee class too. So I finished leveling my DK and the amount of time that I spent learning to min max well enough to hit a 20 key and I just lose all motivation to learn the rotations and set up the best key binds/macros for anything new.
In league I absolutely have a main but if at anytime that gets boring to me, I have 20 characters in various roles that I can play at a high enough level to be competitive in any ranked game and it hardly gets stale. In wow not only does 1 class have 5-10x the amount of mechanics 1 league champ has but in order to min max my frost mage for M+ now, I have to spec into different talents and change playstyle mechanics pre pull based on if im cleaving or single target. It makes me miss the days where you had to go to your class trainer and pay to respec tbh.
Its so much easier to do shit like this when youre a teenager or early 20's but being 30 with a career, sometimes I just want to be able to come home and unwind and honestly I sit at my desk and think about progression in WoW and what I need to do and just go, "nah I dont have the energy for that today."
your videos are BIS, what happened bro :(
@@Doschy work life my brother. Became the head of sales and didn’t have a lot of time to devote to videos anymore.
@@Thorsten21 hell yeah big man! Good luck my guy, I'm eagerly awaiting you return! 😔🙏
on top of everything you mentioned in the begining, dont forget, once u get ur addons, gear, emelished, etc, you still gotta learn a complex game where all 20 specs each have 30+ buttons and, you yourself also have 30+ abilities to use and keep track of. and on top of that the visuals are such a cluster its hard to keep track of
I agree 100% There are too many buttons and it's a challenge to get into the game at times. Even in the AWC tournaments, it's hard to tell what's going on at times but the casting desk does an amazing job breaking down what's happening so that the audience can understand.
In FF14, pvp is different. THere are some abilities that everyone has (a debuff cleanse, an instant cast heal, and a damage reduction bubble) and everyone's pve rotation is condensed down to like 5-7 buttons depending on what class you play. I think the wow devs should look into ff14 pvp.
Most classes in WoW have like 5-6 main abilities lol
FF structure is good but their mechanics are terrible. The pvp doesn't feel satisfying to play at all, healers are way too strong, too many effects on screen, lack of CC, etc.
I agree they should tone done abilities in wow, make specs have "pvp kits" that disable many of the other filler abilities. Specifically for arena though, BGs are a bit of a different animal and used mostly for people to test out their gear in a fun manner.
You know what I used to like? I liked raiding as a frost mage and spamming frostbolt in vanilla. Sure, you were just spamming a button, but you could pay attention to other people's positioning, mechanic timings, and so on. I know it was absolutely simple, but it was not boring. You had to balance your mana and aggro too. It was more about staying alive and not running oom than heavy theorycrafting. I liked that.
icc wrath was a great time for abilities imo. not complicated but just enough that you can tell whos good and whos learning. tbc heroics was good too because there was barely anything to press but you had to trap/poly/ect and pull right, not rush. vanilla is really good but just a tad too simple in my eyes (even though ive been enjoying turtle wow)
@@beingofstrange I did have a lot of fun in Wrath too, but by then we had things like gear score and achievements and the gatekeeping and elitism were already pretty prevalent. I've always been more on the camp of "did we as a team kill boss X" than "who contributed the most to killing boss X". In the end, you could tell who got things done by their gear. Sure, you could argue that someone got carried or some such, but maybe that bad dps was the one you put in charge of calling out dangerous mechanics, or he was the one who spent all day recruiting new members to the guild. I think generally people contributed in different ways when the game was simpler and fights had more leeway.
Also, by Wrath I wasn't really playing my mage any more. The game had already shifted pretty hard towards instant cast spells, so casters lost their appeal to me.
Last season as a ww I got over 3k shuffle, got to 2.5k in 3s with no voice lfg, and my biggest issue continues to be finding people to play with. If I could get the glad mount from shuffle I'd completely stop caring about 3s and other people being able to hold me back.
I feel like it is only because all classes has minimum of 20+ abilities and knowing/remembering 120 per game (6x20 in shuffles) is really hard for new players.
Whereas successful pvp games such has League ask you to be able to know/remember how 40 abilities work per game.
I think you're right. When you're required to buy a mouse with 12 side buttons, the game has way too many abilities that you need to keybind. There are so many things you have to do to even begin to be competitive in PvP. Getting into an actual arena game also takes too long. It's not an easy process. Hope you don't miss your RSS queue pop while waiting 30+ minutes. Thanks for voicing our concerns.
I cannot imagine playing this game without a 12 button mouse that would feel like shit. It didn’t matter clicking when I was 8 years old but after playing competitively there’s literally no other way to play the game.
The mouse claim is just blatantly false. Perhaps for PvP, where some people bind each spell 4 times or w/e, but as is commonly known, a horribly tiny percentage cares about pvp beyond some random fun in BGs or low rating arena.
The classes have so few spells these days, compared to early expacs where you had to have both max rank and rank 1 spells bound (and most spells were useful so you had to have them bound), then in cata and mop you had so many spells that 6 action bars full werent enough and you had most of it keybound.
Nowadays an average player needs barely 3 action bars bound and thats pushing it.
@@WelsyCZ I have 12 buttons and another 12 w shift click and I still need to make more keybinds. Say what you will but someone coming from league, StarCraft, COD, would not be able to deal with that strictly using a keyboard. Maybe we can because we’ve been playing this game but even I forget to push some of my buttons sometimes.
@@WelsyCZ dude I had to ask on my fb group and the ammt of people that are pushing glad without the mouse is wild to me. I give you guys utmost props and I’ll stfu now
@@mateo10734 I have the mouse too, but I dont need to use it. I have it bound for windows functionality most of the time.
my default keybinds are for 37 buttons. Thats usually for 3 full actionbars and the extra 7 are for either stances or mount or something extra. And thats only using the keyboard, none of this is on the mouse. This has been enough for me most of the time. In MoP, sometimes I needed extra keybinds, but there are many spells that an average player (that doesnt push high rating in pvp or doesnt go beyond HC raids) doesnt have to have keybound.
Same with komplexity goes for Sub Rogue, when you need to use a skill in dance, which got replaced by a better skill but you need to cast the worse skill to get a dmg increase cause of Danse Macabre for example :D
Idk if rogues are actually doing that in pvp. You don’t have room for those globals in pvp
That kind of shit make retail pvp so bad, modifiers everywhere
The other huge issue is that there’s so much information going on at all times from all classes that it’s hard to process information even as a viewer, let alone a player.
League of legends makes it easy to understand what’s going on with each hero having 4 abilities.
Each WOW class has like 20…
+ DRs, +modifiers, etc…
Everything is way too complicated
I have like 300-400 days /played in Classic and TBC and have absolutely ZERO idea what is happening whenever I try to play retail
Just read a guide on how to meta comp your arena team and play from memmory. Thats how those dumbasses play. If you want to see how good players pvpd when it was about counterplay and smarts instead of memorizatiion look up brang the hunter, drakedog the warlock or beavis the shaman...
you lost most people on "you have to level"
Yes and no. You have to be level 20 for Valorant comp and other games like it. You can play unranked instantly but comp takes a while in most games
@@donut_s Yea but unranked in games like Valorant and CS is at least a little bit like the comp mode. In WoW you kill pigs.
You lost more people on skipping it. leblveling is easily the most pleasurable part of wow
Equalize the gear for pvp in UNrated pvp. Also; fix the twink issue.. they legit farm out new players & casuals
dude it is as equalized as possible, 2 horus to get a full pvp set that is lierally 13 ilvls lower than the top pvp set, the enemy having 10% extra hp and 9% extra damage isnt the reason people lose constantly.
And low levels pvps enchants, consumables and gems shouldnt be acitvated.
Wrath of the Lich King had a perfectly fine learning curve right after the dungeon finder was introduced, but they later started adding extra rules with each expansion and now you don't even know how to quest to level up. I started a human character and once he hit level 30 (It would be 60 previously) I accidentally teleported myself to Dwarven starting zone and continued levelling there, which actually works well because of the scaling of both mobs and quests, so now everywhere I go it looks like I was meant to level there no matter if it's level 1 location or level 50 quest zone... Seasoned players don't struggle with this but it can be hard to resist the temptation to take all the dwarven quests and start doing them as even the reward items scale to your level.
i am kinda a new player and have played the first phase of Dragonflight. I tried 3 different classes at last level and each of them felt really hard to play optimally. I tried to learn rotations and i was like sitting in front of dummies trying to really learn but it was just too complicated. So i just stopped playing
You are so right about this. I've been playing as a casual player for the last ten years, but trying to keep up with 30 different buttons and knowing which one to push next is just nuts. It definitely needs to be simplified.
The game is SOOO Bloated!!! They need a expansion called RETRACTION. For the game to gain popularity with new people almost everything needs to be queueable. Mythic +, raids everything.
Legion did that, and it was garbage. The game isn't bloated, it's just not for filthy League of Legends casuals.
Geez remember when we all had 50 binds in MoP and hated the prune... Come along way sadly
@@manthe3711 legion was pretty amazing and you couldnt queue in anything solo you had to use lfg lol
"When enough horns and whistles are going off, you know the trains coming"
When he starts talking about ability bloat it just made me realize how much I appreciate playing fury warrior even more KEK
This means so much coming from you. I do agree damage rotations have gotten complicated and overwhelming to pull off correctly in dungeons and raid scenarios. I have been in denial and thinking I’ve just lost my touch. It also been hard trying to convince friends to play the retail version because of this.
It's funny because the player base screamed from the top of their lungs for years as classes were pruned about how they hated it and wanted more abilities and more in depth rotations and now I keep hearing about how classes need to be pruned again. I honestly don't think simplifying combat would help the game grow in any meaningful way as I think one of the biggest turn offs is tab target combat for the younger crowd and not that it's complex.
You have to have the right balance between complexity and being to simple.
You are spot on, and there are too many short cooldown abilities in the basic rotation. I prefer several long cooldown abilities that matters. And haste as a base stat needs to go away, it removes the dynamics and feeling of pvp as I use to love the long casting killer spells that needed to be interrupted, such cliffhanger feelings are gone.
yup. ive always had trouble finding ppl to play with without getting kicked after 1 or 2 games and basically never did until solo shuffle, but now queues are too long
that's also a huge problems for on and off players. me and my friend love arena but we can't just decide to hop on for a weekend a grind arenas if you've been away for even a patch you have so much work to do that it never feels worth it to play unless you're commiting at the start of an xpac
I don't think wow will ever manage to make pvp accessible for new players. I think they need to focus on making it accessible and interesting to pre-existing wow players. The barrier to entry even for veteran pvers severely limits the player pool on a gamemode that relies on population. As it stands right now you need a degree to understand how every class works, their synergies, their counters, and how to track them.
I agree and world pvp while leveling like classic has more accessibility. I remember that brought me to the game back in vanilla plus the actual mmorpg aspects. But world pvp was never balanced, leveling is a tedious chore now and the game is bloated.
I actually think they’ve gone and made it more difficult by introducing these complicated talent trees. If anything, I think it should be relatively predictable to know what tools your opponent has in his toolbox.
Without new players the game dies. Nobody is there to carry the torch once other players quit. Less people playing the game, less community, and more hardcore elders that only care about what they care about.
Imagine a area game mode for wow like solo shuffle but you pick from a roster of wow hero’s kinda like HOTS each has 6-8 ability’s and a ult with a long cool-down each ability is impactful due to the low amount of ability’s.
I like this but I also like the idea of smaller objective modes (like a 5v5 domination map like in gw2 or some other variation)
It just a lot tougher to get into a death match mode imo
I would really like to see Blizz implement significantly more button bloat! At least that way I can mash the keyboard with my fist and surprise my enemies with unpredictable combos in arena.
Shadow priest rotation, even after the rework, is insane. Mind blast? Better mind spike 2x before! can get procs for mind blast, devouring plague, shadow word death, and old gods all at once? No problem! Your main cooldown is also an active ability? Your other main cooldown not only buffs yourself but others? Most your abilities only work if you are in a "form"? Plus trinkets, embellishments weapon procs and 3 different consumables on top. Way too much (and I've been playing this for 13 years)... flavourful? Yes! Fun? (mostly). Convoluted? Amen
I'm in the odd scenario that I thought solo shuffle alone would keep me subbed, but it was the friends I played arena with that kept me going. Once it was no longer feasible to play 2's or even 3's reliably wow basically died for me for this expac. It's hard to vocalize what exactly what wow needs to do next, but I think Ven made a lot of good points.
For the rotations I think there is a good place to be where there are lots of buttons to push without making it overly complicated. FFXIV does this really really well. You have rotations with a bunch of different spells but even without a guide I've noticed streamers playing and they just settle into a rotation that while not "optimal" is within like 4-5% of what is because the rotations are largely self explanatory and flow together well. I will admit a lot of that smoothness is a direct result of NOT having choices like talents or borrowed power like sets and trinkets but I don't really see that as an excuse.
A lot of MMO's have chased WoW down this hole too and it's kinda weird since WoW started as a ridiculously brain dead rotation with vanilla to what we have today which is needlessly complicated. I can understand wanting to allow people to express their skill level better but I think that sort of thing is better done via the encounters and not the basic class design. Circling back to FFXIV as an example the Black Mage class there has one of the easiest rotations to do. You hit up a target dummy and in 5-10 minutes you can be pretty much perfect. Throw yourself in an actual raid and it's typically the one with the highest variance with poorer players being REAL bad and good players really shining.
I think there are too many buttons. I don't think they can do anything about this now as that's the way the game has been designed but I think a nice spot to be is to have maybe 10 abilities.
Arcane Mage PvE is definitely bonkers. I have +35 keybinds with QWRTZXCGH+ Numbers, 12 button MMO mouse and Shift modifiers. I still have run out of binds for all of the Arcane abilities.
I think there's a gray area between enough buttons to be interesting vs too many buttons where it's a chore. But Blizz has been rather oblivious to how hard to approach they've made their game. I make fun of BM Hunter and Frost Mage for being rather simple but I actually think they have a reasonable number of buttons.
100% accurate. Thank you for highlighting all of this. As someone who has been invested for over a decade and want to get friends to play it is impossible. It is way to complex like you said. Hopefully Blizzard listens to your input!
I think honestly making a RBGs solo que mode or adding in game modes that are good for the 5v5 or 6v6 meta. maybe making tanks hybrids. Making warriors similar to Reinhardt kinda?
Oh wow more shit to divide pvp.. great idea 🤡
The arcane mage sped up rotation and Venruki's reaction during got me crying oh my goodness lmao Also the game is heavily catered to the higher rated players. the skill ceiling doesnt need to go so high at all lol.
people deserve it for calling "good and balanced " games like WOTLK and Legion "too easy"... just to show off and pretend that they are soo fucking good.
Now suck it.
your mindset about everything totally makes sense, and I agree myself, I find it hard myself to get into, and I don't even know how to setup my addons for pvp.
It is freaking hard, and I wish it wasn't this hard, so I could just play
I feel you bro, I used to have so much fun in PvP back when it was in its hay day
It IS an mmo though. If you take the mmo out of the game, it’ll likely lose its appeal. Sure, there may be some ways to improve the entry into pvp but also, don’t forget it’s an mmo and removing any effort to explore and learn the game may kill the very thing that makes it unique and special.
I don't think you're making the point you're trying to make. Effort in exploration and learning the game can be had WITHOUT spending a month just to get the basics of a class/spec down.
WoW was initially super successful BECAUSE it defied the status quo. WoW did away with obnoxious systems and set itself apart as an entry point into the MMO scene. Now it is exactly the type of game that it tried to avoid when it first came out. If anything, I'd go as far as to argue WoW used to be unique and special, now it's a convoluted mess without shape or texture. You need to spend way too much time trying to find the gem in the turd and nobody wants to get shit all over them in the hopes that they MAY find a gem one day.
Subbed today. Shoutout for Asmongold giving you a shoutout! 😄
Agree with your take on addons and unneeded complexity. Easier rotations and no addons would really make it easier to get new players into the game and also make it easier to balance classes and design new bosses and encounters!
Totally agree about solo queue,i am one of those people with very limited time and no friends to play with,and after so many years i get bis in S1(i was aiming for elite transmog,but that didn't happen)
Great video. I agree 100% with what you say here. I LOVE PvP in this game. It was all I'd do for the longest time and once I took a break from the game, coming back was too much for me. I can't get back into it and getting a steady group was nearly impossible.
The solo queue does interest me though. Makes me want to come back to try that. Also, as a big fan of yours, if you're looking for people to play with maybe I can hit you up to play :P
don't forget, if you do all of that you need to buy a wow token so you have the gold to be able to buy the mats for the crafted gear, and the enchantments
I made 2 450ilvl pvp gear(424 pve ilvl) spending 8k gold, by all means buy tokens or not, but you definately dont need them to get the crafted gear for pvp
Solo queue was the only thing I've had fun doing in dragonfligt. I haven't played for a few months not sure if i'll be back just because queues were awful and it was overall toxic.
Leveling was supposed to teach you how to play your class, but I had actually never learned how to play a sub rogue before I leveled one in vanilla classic.
You know what would be nice, pvp trainers, like actual people that blizz employs to teach people pvp explain basics add-ons etc, you can just sign up for an in game appointment and for 1 to 2 hours and a pvp veteran helps you explore arena! What also would be a great addition would be pve arenas. So you can train vs bots.
They need to integrate essential addons into the UI. BUT, not too many. Also I think the spell list should fill 2-3 rows MAX. It's impossible to have less than 4. But not too few spells.
Feel this so much. I got legend at the start of s1 then quit, been enjoying AWC and decided to come back but I don’t know where to start with all the new stuff from just 1 patch - if I was a new player starting from scratch… I wouldn’t.
I agree completely. Hated back when people complained we needed more after they finally got pruned . Makes it impossible getting my friends to try the game, let alone stick with it .
My brother leveled a shadow priest in WOD with me while I tanked LFG. I mained shadow since wrath so I was able to help him out along the way, mind you he was 10 at the time. A couple weeks ago he said he would like to get back into it the game and it’s probably the craziest thing I’ve ever heard somebody say.
"when enough horns and whistles go off, you'll be able to figure it out" lmao XD
This is so Ironic I see this video now. So i just started wow and PvP in general, playing resto shammy in 2s comp with ret pally who peaked at 2k+ raiting, he gave the the general idea on how to play and 2-3 addons, after 175 games we are really close to 1600 but are always just short of it and having to learn 3 bars of spells + mouse over healing + keeping track of his CD + knowing what enemies and their specs do + timing and chaining CC to get a kill window + getting gear enchants + arena positioning just everything feels insanely overwhelming while my friend is screaming at me for us losing saying people in this rating can't even spell their name right and we just can't be loosing here (but with a lot harsher words) it's just insane to try and get into it while after 4 days of PvP i just want to get 1600 and stop. It's just way too much for me at least for now
Well as a new player who is playing the first season ever in WOW, i gotta say i love the complexity, i loved that i had to look up the stats, the gearing process, the gems, enhancements, experimenting with builds, learning addons and other classes abilities so i know how to fight them in arena, the list could go on, i love it. I am a solo player who enjoys ranked modes in games and mostly i play the game because of solo shuffle, i love it, currently sitting at 1600 ish with my MM hunter in my first season(Zvad-Ragnaros). Even tho I am experienced mmmorpg pvp player and not a kid, as You can see even have a small youtube channel of SWTOR PvP, and started playing wow not so long ago. I believe i am the minority, but i started playing wow because its hard and complex and there are many abilities and keybinds to use in this expansion, a talent tree like system and solo ranked game mode, many layers and complex gameplay.
I would be really sad if they would make this game simple\dumb too. I think if a game is too easy ppl will leave, because there is no real goal, the feel of progression going away pretty soon, in the current WOW its different and it keeps me playing.
Played SWTOR as a sniper which is by far the hardest class in pvp, love kiting, slows, roots, positioning so i became hunter and now leveling frost mage because that has even more control and kiting potential, so yeah i am really happy to find a complex game in 2023 when most of the games are fast, dumb, easy, simple.
I really really hope they will keep WOW as complex and hard as possible, i really dont want to looking for another game, because with this expansion it feels like i found a new home, mostly because of the many layers the game has and the complexity in the combat and gearing system and solo ranked game mode.
I dont have a single friend nor a player who helped, okay actually once a guy whispered me with some good tricks, but thats all. My goal was 1600 in first season ever, i already achived that and i really enjoyed every minute i spent with leveling, reading, learning about the game. Currently sitting at 1630 and gonna mark 1700 as a tgoal next season.
I get that you like things complex, but I'm going to guess that you're in the extreme minority. Ideally, games should be trying to hit that "easy to play, hard to master" sweet spot.
They just need to open PvP servers where you login and;
-You’re max level
-Any professions can get maxed instantly for free.
-All resources are available in vendors for honor points/arena points/rbg points
-lower tier gear is available for free
-mid tier gear/upgrades is available for honor (or can be crafted by resources that require honor)
-high tier gear/upgrades is available for Arena Points/RGB (or can be crafted by resources that require Arena points/rng points)
Restomilk here, always love your videos and input! You shed a lot of much needed light onto pvp. If you ever need Qs lmk 😂😂
I was excited for the Frost mage rework because the reliance on icy veins uptime is just dumb, but after seeing what they did, I'm not looking forward to have to keybind a tone of abilities. I already feel I have too many.
I think the game is probably really fun right now if you’re in the top 0.1% of arena players and you’ve invested a buttload of time into mastering the game. For everybody else, it’s just absolutely crazy stressful, with an insane pace, a huge number of variables to track, and an insane amount of UI configuration required to even begin understanding what the hell is happening / happened to you (Blizzard has basically given up on trying to make the base UI do anything useful for arena players).
If they want to have a huge number of things to be aware of, then they need to slow the game down. Virtually nobody wants to be overwhelmed with signal data in an environment where they ALSO need to be concerned about flopping over dead in two seconds. I’ve invested a lot of time in learning about all the classes and doing a bunch of custom WeakAuras and UI tweaking and I *still* frankly most of the time just consider doing arenas at night and think “shit, I’ll just get fucking worked up and pissed off and jittery”. At least that’s my experience as a healer. I want to get better at the game, but I have to acknowledge that it’s just not enjoyable in spite of the effort I’ve put into it.
Best example was I think mop shadow priest with 3 orbs? Everyone wanted to play it very simple very fun
There was a fun mode in Guild Wars 1 (dont know if it was in GW2 also, I didnt play) where you had to choose PvP or PvE when creating a new character. If you chose PvE, you had a normal lvl 1 character (which could eventually do dungeons and PvP). If you chose PvP, you had a max level character and were stuck in capitals but you had access to every single piece of gear / enchants / enhancements available in the game. Could be interesting !
Now they make it to where no matter what you level you are, you can hop in pvp and everyone is at max level with all their abilities. I think something similar to this would make wow pvp way more accessible.
@@mateo10734 i mean.. GW2 pvp is kinda dead so... i don't know.
people are wierd.
GW2 is like.. the perfect game and it's population is insanly low for how good the game is.
It feels like people want an average and even a bad game, so they can cry and complain about it.
I fully agree, There are so many skills and pre requisite learning required to play arena right from day one. Hell just learning when to trade defensives is a part time job. there are say on avg say 5 skills per class that are mandatory to know the animations for. Thats over 50 skills you need to know what they are and how they work so you can best trade your defensives.
thats not even getting into positioning, Damage rotations, CC, Comp match up talent point switches, Game plans for each comp, Macroing for trageting multiple players within 1 global cd to keep chains going.
When they first made M+ I was excited because I thought solo queuing for a PVE mode with a ranking was right around the corner. I hope your solo shuffle comes true, and they make a similar version for PVE too :D
I am SO thankful for your videos particularly this one!! You are so with it! I have been playing since Wrath and this game is complicated even for me!! When I say that, people in the comments get crazy mad and say it is fine! NO, IT"S NOT!! Every expansion, EVERYTHING changes! You need to know every race and it's racial, every class and its spec and each spec's spells. Then, when the new patch releases, guess what? You get to relearn the changes! The game is meant for people to play A LOT!
I haven't touched retail since MoP was new. I came back for classic/tbc/wotlk and it's been fun. I really like tbc/wotlk arena, but I don't have any friends who play, and so I don't get to play matches much. I've been dying to try out retail arena because of solo shuffle, but it just looks exponentially more confusing to play, and equally as difficult to even get into.
They need to streamline UI, keybinds, abilities. Need to make questing more than just kill and retrieve. Need to reward veterans for helping new players. Me and my buddy got into it during shadowlands and it was a rough experience, setting up addons, setting up UI and keybinds and learning all the weird terms and acronyms. Learning how the power systems work, it’s fun when you get it but a lot of it is so complicated for zero reason.
Had a friend that saw me raiding and wanted to give it a go, but then I had to explain everything he would have to do first, like leveling, doing dungeons, gearing up, etc...
We ended up playing D3 and could immediately duo play together, unlike wow which takes many hours of /played for a new player to reach that point.
I agree there are too many abilities and interactions, but I don't think it's just damage rotations. As a holy paladin, I'm getting carpal tunnel from how many keybinds I am constantly contorting my fingers for. I have a lot bound to my mouse side buttons, but probably have just as many on my keyboard. I have seen a lot of people saying it's the easy healing class, but, honestly, disc priest feels like a break for me.
Healer is the easiest class to play scrub they even made ya stronger so Yu can get carried in arena by DPS .if u don't believe me try winning arena as double dps scrub u can't u would rage quit cause ur just bad
I remember back in mop when hunters had like 40 abilities that had to be used in a specific order for their opener. That was a long time ago, the game has only gotten more complicated since then
14 years playing this game, I agree 100% with this man.
Maybe Blizzard could make retail more accessible and then add a brand new expansion to classic. So both new and old players are happy
i wonder if it would help pvp popularity to have everyone scaled up to a certain ilvl (in this patch's case 447) reglardless of the kinda gear you have on, so even someone that just has some like haste/vers green pieces can still queue up and actually just play, there can still be stuff like embellishments for the higher end but at least people would be able to compete on somewhat even ground
Wow was complicated when it first came out. I can’t imagine entering wow as a new player after 18 years of expansions. It can be overwhelming to pick up, but it can be rewarding once you know what you are doing.
You know what's funny? When wow came it out was by all measures the "easy" MMO on the market. It was so popular in part because it did away with a lot of the BS that other MMOs were doing at the time. Back then, anyone could recommend it to their friends, and their friends could get into it relatively hassle-free. (at the very least compared to the competition).
Now WoW is exactly the type of game they started off trying to avoid.