Agree, nerf instant stun to 3seg and increase cooldown duration, almost every class that has instant stun have 2 or 3 of them....warriror can Stormbolt, shockwave, charge and fear, all stuns, against caster they event need to use interrupt they just press stun
@@gxKelvin017e only problems are rogues and warriors but if we compare it to the most recent classes what they have ? Monks sweep and incap OK dhs have 2 stuns 1 incap still ok, evokers have a sleep and a root that’s all. Imo old classes needs big rework I agree overall but imo spammable cc and classes that have more than 3 ccs total should not have this much. The fact that it’s instant changes nothing but the total amount does
I’ve said this before. They need a global CC DR on top of cc types. If I get stunned and then sapped and then feared, the fear should have a DR on it even though I’ve not been feared yet. Cc DR’s don’t mean anything when one class has 3 different kinds of cc.
That would be boring af gameplay and people would throw out random cc without any coordination whatsoever. Also than you are asking for very high burst damage in order for games to finish, not sure if healers want that.
The larger issue imo is that there are simply too many abilities in the game. It's a massive barrier to entry for new players for starters, but it also allows for the above - even after they just recently reduced the duration almost all CCs. Simply reducing the duration of CCs further is not a viable answer, since it will start to reach a point where pure dmg will be preferable. The fact that there are literally additional abilities only for pvp, the pvp talents, show that they don't understand this issue well.
@@ziggs123 I never said other balancing wouldn’t be needed. But you know what’s even more boring??? Literally not getting to play because you took 12 seconds of straight cc.
@@MartialArtzz also they didn’t really reduce cc durations. They reduced it but then removed the cc reduction from embellishments and trinkets so the net change is basically nothing.
I think the main issue with CC is not with how much there is in the game. There has always been this much, even when the game was considered good in Wrath and MoP. I think the problem is how easy it is to CC without any cost so to speak. There is no risk, or trade off for the rogue spending that much time CC'ing you. In the past with rogues especially, they would have to expend a 1 minute cooldown through redirect to Kidney shot a healer, as well as then not having the kidney shot on the dps to help land the kill. And using gouge on a healer would zero your combo points on the dps target, and spend a good chunk of your energy, lowering your damage during that CC. So they trade a cd, and have less stun duration on their kill target as a trade off. Most classes in the earlier expansions had some type of trade of or risk, for mages getting kicked on poly in Wrath would mean no blink and potential death against a warrior or rogue. And landing casted CC in general was more difficult with fewer micro stuns to keep people in place to then cast that CC on them.
People complain about being kicked and then dying in a 4 second window. There is no winning for Blizzard when it comes to PvP balance, people will always complain. Personally, I found MoP pvp to be the best because virtually everything felt OP, but even then people complained.
Wrath and MoP had absolutely nowhere near as many CC abilities. Don't take my word for it tho, check out wrath classic. Theres just too many CCs, and not enough breaks or CC avoids. One thing i like about evokers is they actually have multiple CC avoid talents that you can set up. they need to either take away some CC talents or add more CC avoid setups for more classes, especially healers. CC just plays too big a role in the current pvp meta. recommended talent builds all forego more interesting talents to bulk up on CC abilities, and the occasional defense against CC I remember in wrath the first time around, i had an undead with trinket and some other break. 3 whole breaks, and that was plenty except when dealing with the most annoying of warlocks
@Ian Griffin rogue has every cc that were used in this video in wrath + cheap shot and kidney dont dr and all ccs are longer. Difference is rogue in wrsth cant just build combo points hitting a dps and then stepping to healer with full combo points to full kidney and then stepping back because 2 step charges lol to do damage. Also rogue in wrath is very hard to survive on. Retail is just horrible balance and gameplay.
So imagine that you are not in brackets were ppl understand the game and know what's going on. You will find yourself gaslighted, as a healer, when you lose or ask for a peel, because the DPS job is to keep up "pressure" and never line offensive CDs. (I know this is a product of being low rated or pugs, but this is the reality that 90% of healers are going to face.) I started understanding what the job of the healing role is, to allow 2 other players to have fun, while I deal with most of the stressful parts of the game. Opinion: The shortened CC duration only made the classes with limited CC feel irrelevant and the classes with the most CC become kings of annoying. Story: I was against a Dancing with the stars comp. The boomkin bursted and the rogue did nothing but stand next to me and CC me. We lost.
I came to the same conclusion, i realized i was always super stressed while my arena partners were having fun and laughing every time they killed someone, even if i can press a button and top someone is extremely frustrating to spend 70% of the match CCd. I once had a hunter in ss that kept running away from me, so i told him politely that he should quite parallel to me instead of away and he said "you are the most mobile healer in the game (prevoker), you should be able to keep up", this was at 2k btw. WOW arena needs some serious rework if they want to have more than 1 healer for every 100 dps players.
@@scoso1313 My guild runs 3 raid groups. All of them went from having too many healers in SLs to too few in DI. People just find it stressful for too little reward.
They buffed total health and damage in DF beta and in 10.1 specifically to make healing in pve harder. And pvp has been an absolute joke to heal all expansion.
A lot of the current dungeons in rotation are wildly overtuned, making just about every boss on tyrannical and many add packs on fortified a huge, huge heal check. Way more than last season. Lots of the mechanics simply cannot be done properly or can’t be avoided without either having a cracked team or being overgeared, and it all falls down to the healer to just try and heal through it, which isn’t fun.
@@assyralofthemoon4367 well you just let them have maybe 2 or 3 cc abilities. If the majority have 1. It will still have relatively more CC than the rest. Right now every class can literally do anything and keep players 70% of the time in CC. As a healer i can tell, some arena games i’m literally staring at my screen for the majority of the time. That is not good gameplay
@@assyralofthemoon4367 Aff locks used to do just fine with 1 CC ability. i know, because i used to cheese it hard. Now i feel like im cashing in karma for that
3 ccs should be the limit, no matter what CC it is. They all should DR together. 100% / 50% / 25% of all CC effects then IMMUNE for 15 seconds. Cc should be a rare and situation effect used to put pressure, not something always thrown out at every chance you can.
bruv just had a game in Solo Shuffle as an afflock... and the other DPS was a ret paladin, an UH dk, and a Havoc DH and the healers were both fistweaver monks... each game the ENTIRE enemy team would just TUNNEL ME. They ALL have: multiple stuns, multiple gap closers, multiple slows, a short 8-12 cd kick, a magic immunity, and a knockback. I literally couldn't fucking play the game @ all. All i could do was instant casts. I put on my vers/haste set, set up gates and portal, used VW sac for the extra cd, and went PURE defensive PvP talents and all i did was delay my death. EVERY game i was kill target and EVERY game i died. I fuckn raged HARD
i feel exactly like that in most of my games at 1600 mmr, ngl. this one here though you had options to avoid CC, like most of the times rogue approached you to gouge/kidney you had para/legsweep/both available. now i do realize you probably wanted to save it for when you are kicked to stall the enemy go, like you did later, but yeah, it's all about trading and you either chose not to or didn't see you had this option. now, i don't thinkg i'm better than you by any means and i do realize it's easier to see stuff when you are just observing rather than playing, but there are definitely options. thanks for pointing this out though, appreciate what you are doing for the community!
Meh. This and everything else with the modern end-game is why I just stick to doing my own thing and why most of WoW is more of a single player game with some co-op here and there. It's just too much going on. Almost 20 years of the game so I'm just burnt out of having to read third party sites, guides, and countless strats for every little thing. I'd like to do raiding, mythics, and pvp but you'll eventually hit a point where you cannot pass. Imagine how it is for new players, not to mention the scope of the rest of the game. Too much. Too intimidating. WoW's playerbase can only dwindle at this point.
We almost need different talent trees/class design for PvP. PVE Utility has grown to such diversity, it’s too much. I’m wondering if class design similar to TBC/wrath simplicity but with shorter CC duration is the solution.
Well it helps that venruki can tell his team, that he is cc'ed. In solo shuffle warrior bois will leap+charge while you are sapped far away from the warrior boi. And then "lmao why dont you heal me" they expect you to trinket the first sap sometimes = gg
@@yung_cheezy seems more healer tears xd all the expansions complaining about the cc they receive, the thing is that when a comp dps doesn't kill it's because he coordinated wrong, the same thing happens when a healer is not available to heal his team, someone did something wrong. Blizzard reduced the cc as much as they could and they are still complaining. What else do they want? 1 minute DRs? shared for any cc?
@@sebastianhiguerallanten990 I don't know if you weren't paying attention prior to 10.1, but rogues were melting down because they were losing 1 second on kidney and blind into sap. Meanwhile gouge, garotte, and cheap shot duration all got buffed, and now their cloak is a bubble lol. Have you played a healer this expansion? I recommend you try it and then come back and call out "healer tears." Healing is not fun, and the population of healers versus dps proves my point.
@@yung_cheezy No, I haven't played this expansion, unfortunately. But I can say (based on my pvp experience as a rogue) that most of the rogue's CC attempts were (and are) very obvious. Ven did not use Paralysis on several occasions despite having it available before several Kidney or Gouge, nor did he use his stun to counter the rogue's CC GOs. Is it really necessary to remind you that healers also have CC? And I repeat what I said before: the rogue was the first to die, and despite all the cc, now it is much more difficult to kill a target than in previous expansions, because the cc chain is shorter. In arenas I think this is not a very important problem (in RBG on the other hand, it broke several base capping mechanics). That's why I ask you: what else do you want? finally, your arguments are "more anti-rogue" than anything else. Which tells me that I was right about "healer tears". And yes, the Cloak of Shadows issue can be a very OP CD and it is always necessary to evaluate its continuity. But there are few strategies left to avoid healer tears (which includes several classes, and not the sub rogue spec) and even worse, the way to recruit new healers. greetings
i dont mean to be a jerk but this is the meta you guys pushed post BFA (the go meta) healers do insane healing output and people only die during "goes" with massive burst and cc. nothing dies as long as a healer is present and they not in cc and ofc damp isnt high or someone is just pretty much globaled or close to it (dies in less than 3-5 seconds) pacing and times to kill need increased and counter play aswell as playing your class needs to happen more, no one is enjoying this and it is ruining pvp and has been since SL. its also bleeding over into casual pvp like random bgs and wpvp and making people (newly players) not want to play out of frustration.
I love to heal, and I’m glad it’s not as crazy as season 1 or shadowlands early seasons, but the instant micro-cc is what is really irritating. Having a button like Life Swap ready to press and then getting triple DR Axe Tossed into a triple DR gouge or something, and my boy dying in that gouge is what tilts me the most
Dumb to be sure, but the larger issue imo is that there are simply too many abilities in the game. It's a massive barrier to entry for new players for starters, but it also allows for the above - even after they just recently reduced the duration CCs. Simply reducing the duration of CCs further is not a viable answer, since it will start to reach a point where pure dmg will be preferable. The fact that there are literally additional abilities only for pvp, the pvp talents, show that they don't understand this issue well.
@@MartialArtzz I started the game again after 4 years, one week later. Pexed on char from 1 to 70 in 20 hours, and got full pvp honor + capped conquest cap in 10/15 more hours. I, now, sit at 1K9 rating and a war, class I never ever played before, and discovered evey classes again. Not that hard tbf if you're whiling to put some effort into the game. Even tho, there is too much tool, regardless if you're new player or not, there shouldn't be that much different things in one game. + f*ck sub rogue
i did find it funny that it didnt take long to see complaints about how cc was annoying or to much even though they nurfed it. why was there no complaining before
I think the new evoker hybrid spec is a way for tripple dps to be a viable comp in arena. So I would suggest you healers to stop crying or you will be replaced completely 🤣 Better start practicing doing maximum damage and seting up cc, while getting trained by 2 meeles simultaneously as a dps player.
@warri187 LOL healers already have to do this if they want to win. Stop pretending warrior dps is a complex concept, you just have to mongo 90% of the time. I bet you're the warrior getting exploded by wizard cleaves in the middle of the map asking his healer why he couldn't save him lmao
Blizz really needs to give healers a slight reduction in CC, and up some of the healing certain specs do. A lot of times it feels as if I can not recover from damage. I don't want it where healers don't die or you can keep someone up into d e e p dampening. But most times to me if I make a very very minor mistake it feels as if the game is lost.
People thought CC was going to be weak after the changes. Definitely not. All CC should share DR. You eat 10 seconds of CC, you should be immune to CC for at least 10 sec after
That means that something needs to take the place of cc for the kill window that was made possible from cc tho. So u want even more dmg during short windows then we alrdy have? And even less class Identity? Everyone's cc function the same way in the end. Won't that just make arena into a brawler simulation deluxe? Most issues I've felt during shadowlands and dragonflight with cc being so oppressive is having cdr on classes with different schools of cc. Not cc itself.
I play mage in shuffles, i take lobbys with fury, enhanc and rogue, they even try to interrupt me, is just stun and burst, repeat, almost every class has 2 or 3 stuns, Blizz loose the focus, every class has an identity, enhanc has purge and interrupt, rogue has stun....they add everything to everybody, warrior have a lot mobility, a lot of stuns, the class that don't receive a lot of mobility and control like paladins and DK is dropping to the bottom of the ladder, ret get a rework, get overtunned and got nerfed, the problema with pala was never their dmg or healing, is that all the class receive so much mobility and option to control that the class that keep their identity are not able to play the game
bruv just had a game in Solo Shuffle as an afflock... and the other DPS was a ret paladin, an UH dk, and a Havoc DH and the healers were both fistweaver monks... each game the ENTIRE enemy team would just TUNNEL ME. They ALL have: multiple stuns, multiple gap closers, multiple slows, a short 8-12 cd kick, a magic immunity, and a knockback. I literally couldn't fucking play the game @ all. All i could do was instant casts. I put on my vers/haste set, set up gates and portal, used VW sac for the extra cd, and went PURE defensive PvP talents and all i did was delay my death. EVERY game i was kill target and EVERY game i died. I fuckn raged HARD
I understand the frustation, and im not a pro like you, but a couple of things, i feel like team mates could have to done more to slow, or prevent a bit of the rogue control too.
As a healer main with 2800 xp I’m not enjoying pvp anymore. The burst is killing pvp. Sure I believe in burst classes but the tempo of the game is to fast for healers to react and people to use cooldowns quickly idk why WoW pushes damp and quick matches, it’s killing arena. I do understand long marches can be tedious but that when outplaying comes into play. But I believe class balance is so bad we can’t believe of outplaying anymore…
Sure, getting CC'd for most of the game isn't fun, but how else were they supposed to score a down? Not by letting you free cast, that's for sure. They clearly managed their DRs well there too. Serious questions: what needs to change? What makes healing fun?
From the opposite perspective (as someone who plays a rogue and tries to CC heals) that rogue CC'ed his nuts off...and still lost. That also isn't fun. Overall though, I agree the amount of CC's in the game need to be reduced.
I stopped playing part way through 10.5 because healing in pvp is the opposite of fun, even though I think DF is probably the best WoW expansion in general. I kept my sub until just the other day hoping the devs would change things to make it better, but I came to realize that their vision for healing in pvp is the opposite of what I once enjoyed
I felt your pain watching this video, People keep saying "we´ve always had this amont of CC in the game" and its simply not true, some classes did but now its a universal problem with DF talents. Warriors for example previously had one one stun or two charges now they have TWO stuns and still get to keep two charges. DH´s is an ape dps spec that should at best have one stun, they have two stuns, silence and fear. I am actually okay with casted CC such as fear, polymorph etc. They break from damage and can be dispelled. The main problem i have with the game currently is the absolute endless stream of short cd stun spam that seemingly has no DR and people use this CC in ways that shouldnt be rewarded at all, just monkey dumping all forms of CC onto the kill target who then has about 60-70% downtime in an entire game. Not having control of your own character is NOT fun gameplay. Stuns should be substantially toned across the board on alot of classes, DR should be substantially increased aswell as diminishing returns.
you team never cc their enemies and rogue died as well xd you were cc all the time but still those who did more damage won, and not cc. Is it worth complaining?
@@thelastshallbefirst3653 Lmao feel that, UH DK is utter dogshit in PvP but somehow topping the ladders in PvE? Might be time to swap. Also, blizz just cares more about PvE, feels like the pvp community just gets no content at all (Latest battleground in the RBG rotation is Silvershard mines which was added in MoP)
Keep in mind. This is after CC was nerfed. (Most of it anyway, warlocks still got 2 kicks, coil , shadowfury, toss, spammable fear, infernal stun, hehexdeee). Edit: not to mention, 3 schools & precog baseline. I'm never touching retail again, not because of warlocks - but because the game is REALLY bad in general, and has been for a good while now sadly.
I went in solo shuffle today healing anyway a demon Hunter joined badly geared majority Pve gear he was unhealable died in seconds so me as /restro druid and the oposite was a priest we both had 3 wins each as none of us could keep him alive I went down -50 the priest went down -47 points ......how's this fair for healers
The problem with healing, especially in solo shuffle, is the skill difference between healers and dps. Most dps players are less experienced than the rating they are playing at while healers are playing at much lower rating than their actual experience. This makes the game not fun for healers, at all.
PvE HPS check is actually what brings me back maining healer this expansion. Weaving in damage spells is fun but doing that too much I would rather play a dps.
Honestly, why play a healer when every DPS has such full tool kits? Everyone has self-healing, cc, and a big defensive. I've seen warlocks self heal at the end of a 2v2 for the same as a healer. They should make other classes more reliant on a healer and strengthen the healing output to compensate
problem is theres just so much instant cc and mobility -- i dont mind rogues but 2 steps with vansih cdr (plus reduced cd on vanish), instant gouge, instant kidney (where they can turn around and cheap you for basically the same duration) -- same problem with warrior/dh/monk/literally all melee can jsut cross the map and stop casted cc instantly while then throwing a 30 yard range instant cc
Sub rogue should be a support class and still have all that utility but take a damage nerf. You can go duo rogue in arena and win every game with ease rn
I feel like it sh ould be leaning towards demo lock, i do wanna say rogue is suppose to lock down for kill, locks aren't suppose to have fears that can just cc for years, and i feel like we should remove gouge from rogue. I don't know this might seem troll for me, but i feel like we did fine without it and i feel like that would reduce the stress from others being cc all the time
This is the reason i stopped pvping altogether, i used to love Arenas, But nowadays people are exploiting mmr, Multi Gladiators showing up at 1000mmr to "play with a friend" and you get absolutely stomped. The times i encounter people at same skill level is MORE RARE than facing theese pro's. They ultra coordinate their stops so i cant play the game, at all. Super fun indeed
Anyone who argued that reducing CC durations was gunna be bad for pvp was completely delusional and out of their mind. I'm a healer main, and for most shuffles, i spend more than half the time in CC, especially vs rogues/warlocks. I want CC to matter in winning games, but the way DR works is completely fucked, especially with rogues. There should be some new mechanic where its not possible to be put into CC for more than 15 secs of any kind. Like a master DR system. People don't enjoy healing because of this, and on top of it, the dmg is absurdly high and people can die within a kidney shot very easily.
Ya, cc 100% feels worse after 'cc was lowered'. I remember everyone screeching saying the game was going to be unplayable with the 'cc nerfs' but healing im cc'd more than ive ever been in previous seasons
Man, seeing this makes me wonder and try to think back at how terrible CC must of been before? These are just 4 second kidneys, 4 second blinds etc, what was it like with 7 second kidneys and 7 second blinds? Holy shiz!!
MW after 4 mins, barely used any mana. Meanwhile enemy healer is completely oom. How is it fair that MW has the strongest healing while never going oom?
@@pharmztko True shaman and DH can handle this well but hé was on 9 mln healing and enemy team on 11 mln. So the mana is still a problem. They would have lost when 1 of the dps was a paladin haha. Which is way weaker in deling with this than a shaman or DH.
They were like let's increase HP and DMG by 25% ? so that people can react .... and nerf crit dmg 175% > 150%.... and now it's worse then ever people insta die from certain combs hahaha and cc duration reduced ... yeah well 10 sec + cc xD stun + double cyclone some1 can die only from that ... great opener ... idk ... pretty much unbalance again ... specifically soloq
For me, it’s the instant CC people can do to you, if someone has to cast to CC you and you don’t avoid it then it’s you being shit. I would also look at a CD for how often you’ve been CC, the constant chaining of CC is what ruins it for me. There is nothing better than when you save your trinket and CC as a healer to the very end of the foght
To be fair rogue only has damage during his shadow dances which is not gonna be every kidney. Also you have a ranged incap, rogue was very obvious with his goes so you could incap and leap away to prevent his go. But idk im not a rank 1 so
So what? Healers should be able to free cast? And the other team Better prey they can beat through it? The hole point of CC was meant for this very purpose, teams using the right strat to counter the other teams comp. Without CC it would be a cake walk. You have 2d1h going up again a 3d combo, without CC the 3d combo would never win. Then ppl would complain to nerf healing instead of CC. The fact the other team CC’d you so much but was unable to down someone shows they did not have the right timing down was preying during burst windows to do enough do’s fast enough before CC lost its effectiveness.
Played about a dozen battlegrounds over the last couple days and out of all the matches we had heals like 3 times well 2 cause heals left during a match and replaced by another dps. Tough.
been doing SS for 6 hours straight disc priest. started with in 2.1k mmr lobby, last season mmr + the inflation. i havent done a single 3/6, not one on the way down to 1500. where i apparently belong until end of season then inflation kicks in. and i figured why no one wants to play healers. but first of all, you know how many evoker, paladin, shaman healers i saw while going down to 1500? fkn ZERO! every lobby it's priest, druid, monk and nothing else. now, why healers suck. because you have to do 4 jobs. heal, dps, cleanse, and cc. shit is mad hectic. at 2k mmr, you dont even know how to react to shit cause it's happening so fucking fast. there are countless situations where you dont know, do you need to dps to finish off opponent, heal, to save yours, or cleanse bop. BUT THAN some one says i should of CCed. but at that point no mater what i do it's probably a loss. So now i also have to be a Nostradamus to predict this situation and prevent it from happening too. meanwhile healers just want to heal and throw lazy cc here and there OR do some dps (it's an OR, not AND). not all this garbage.
CC'd 70% of the game and the Rogue still couldnt land a kill. I dont see the problem. 🤷🏾♂️ Then again, im someone who has always found healing enjoyable regardless of the meta.
@@Xeirus911 If you could control your character for +70% of the match, no one would ever die. So no, I don't see a problem with that when it is the ONLY way someone is going to die.
@Xeirus And mind you, Ven is not a healer main. The only reason he ate so much cc is because he didn't avoid it. He didn't have to sit through that much cc but he probably just isn't used to healing and avoiding cc.
@@catalystcorp That sounds good until you actually watch the video and see that the Rogue didn't step kidney Ven a single time, and only stepped him once to kick into kidney about 15 seconds before the game ends. Watch the video next time before commenting.
honestly this video is mostly just sub rogue nonsense. Sub should not have gouge. It probably should have a cooldown on cheapshot too. Pretty insane that I can dance and just cheap 3 players once in a row, then cheap the last guy anothr 2x. Getting like 20 seconds of your cooldowns removed every time you press vanish is too much that resets your gouge and your dance.
Its just too many years playing the game, at this point. People got this shit down to a tee. It's like a new player entering Fortnite with building mode on. You'll quit before grinding out the skill to come out on top.
why do you complain about cc but you did not use any of yours? I know it is bait video, but even you saw rogue walk to you and you never ring of peaced?
Honestly they should dramatically lower ALL damage AND healing, put ALL instant CC on shared DR, and buff healers support abilities. Make the game less of a dps race and more based on good ability usage and teamwork.
thats why i almost dont want too play on my shaman i get cc all damn game in shuffle and when i play with friends in 2s and 3s, it feels so bad when u try do ur best and u just get shit on every time u try too play healer so i almost given up try healer, i did solo shuffle 1 day ago han healed 6mil all 6 rounds other healer also was 2900xp in shuffle it just feel bad as healer now in low mmr
Was no where OOM and healed 85% of What the enemy healer healed haha... but says nothing about the fact that shamans and DH are way better in surviving burst than a retri paladin, While being able to pressure as hard or even harder than a retri pala haha.
I've completely dropped arenas, blitz, SS and regular bgs. I'm not going to stick around for the misery that is PVP healing. In the rare event you're not cc'd and need to cast a heal, too bad, every class has an interrupt. Mana regen plus dampening and the list gameplay of mechanics that target healers goes on and on.
Funny how when you played with Absterge when he was healing, the video was titled "The best comp we ever played" - and when you're healing, it's "This is why one one wants to heal". Hmmm. Seems like a you problem, not a healer problem.
Difference is Absterge has been a Healer main for a long time and even he gets tilted. Venruki is trying heals to support the healers and I believe he’s just vouching for healers in this video title
@@TommyOhmalley Problem is, his comment is trying to be toxic when it's actually stupid AF. It doesn't prove anything, healers get fucked with micro CCs constantly. That is the point of the video and has been an issue for a long time. It isn't even a "you problem" it's an issue for why SS lacks healers. Toxic people don't use their brains because they go straight to saying dumb shit.
Ven, love watching your videos, ive RBG'd with you back in S1, was a solid group, youve got great content and "talking head" videos, but you really need to up the game on your thumbnails. Its all the same. Youre either happy, shocked, or questionable and you just color grade the shirts to different colors with every thumbnail.
it's not cc itself that's the problem, it's the types of cc that are in the game and the amount every class has. every class shouldn't have multiple stuns and you shouldn't be rewarded for using cc poorly. a better player should be able to punish a weaker player who misuses their cc. the gameplay is not challenging or rewarding. all the classes are homogenized at this point and the only thing separating them is who's damage/healing numbers got buffed this month. new and low rated players only see a shit ton of random instant cc happening and go cc=bad and blizzard has become so clueless and incompetent they don't know how to fix it. make cc meaningful
They could've nerfed micro-cc and reduced the number of instant cc some classes have, but then dragon slayers would've complained.
Agree, nerf instant stun to 3seg and increase cooldown duration, almost every class that has instant stun have 2 or 3 of them....warriror can Stormbolt, shockwave, charge and fear, all stuns, against caster they event need to use interrupt they just press stun
@@gxKelvin017e only problems are rogues and warriors but if we compare it to the most recent classes what they have ? Monks sweep and incap OK dhs have 2 stuns 1 incap still ok, evokers have a sleep and a root that’s all. Imo old classes needs big rework
I agree overall but imo spammable cc and classes that have more than 3 ccs total should not have this much.
The fact that it’s instant changes nothing but the total amount does
Or Maybe just nerf the rogue "out of combat" during blind that lead to sap mid fight ? IDK JUST MAYBE THAT'S LITTLE BROKEN
I’ve said this before. They need a global CC DR on top of cc types. If I get stunned and then sapped and then feared, the fear should have a DR on it even though I’ve not been feared yet. Cc DR’s don’t mean anything when one class has 3 different kinds of cc.
That would be boring af gameplay and people would throw out random cc without any coordination whatsoever. Also than you are asking for very high burst damage in order for games to finish, not sure if healers want that.
The larger issue imo is that there are simply too many abilities in the game. It's a massive barrier to entry for new players for starters, but it also allows for the above - even after they just recently reduced the duration almost all CCs. Simply reducing the duration of CCs further is not a viable answer, since it will start to reach a point where pure dmg will be preferable. The fact that there are literally additional abilities only for pvp, the pvp talents, show that they don't understand this issue well.
@@ziggs123 I never said other balancing wouldn’t be needed. But you know what’s even more boring???
Literally not getting to play because you took 12 seconds of straight cc.
@@MartialArtzz also they didn’t really reduce cc durations. They reduced it but then removed the cc reduction from embellishments and trinkets so the net change is basically nothing.
You all just want to play mortal combat
I think the main issue with CC is not with how much there is in the game. There has always been this much, even when the game was considered good in Wrath and MoP. I think the problem is how easy it is to CC without any cost so to speak. There is no risk, or trade off for the rogue spending that much time CC'ing you. In the past with rogues especially, they would have to expend a 1 minute cooldown through redirect to Kidney shot a healer, as well as then not having the kidney shot on the dps to help land the kill. And using gouge on a healer would zero your combo points on the dps target, and spend a good chunk of your energy, lowering your damage during that CC. So they trade a cd, and have less stun duration on their kill target as a trade off. Most classes in the earlier expansions had some type of trade of or risk, for mages getting kicked on poly in Wrath would mean no blink and potential death against a warrior or rogue. And landing casted CC in general was more difficult with fewer micro stuns to keep people in place to then cast that CC on them.
Imagine taking the time to read this shit
People complain about being kicked and then dying in a 4 second window. There is no winning for Blizzard when it comes to PvP balance, people will always complain. Personally, I found MoP pvp to be the best because virtually everything felt OP, but even then people complained.
@@Sedmonds21 MOP didnt have DH or evokers. both those classes are so damn annoying to go against
Wrath and MoP had absolutely nowhere near as many CC abilities. Don't take my word for it tho, check out wrath classic.
Theres just too many CCs, and not enough breaks or CC avoids. One thing i like about evokers is they actually have multiple CC avoid talents that you can set up. they need to either take away some CC talents or add more CC avoid setups for more classes, especially healers. CC just plays too big a role in the current pvp meta. recommended talent builds all forego more interesting talents to bulk up on CC abilities, and the occasional defense against CC
I remember in wrath the first time around, i had an undead with trinket and some other break. 3 whole breaks, and that was plenty except when dealing with the most annoying of warlocks
@Ian Griffin rogue has every cc that were used in this video in wrath + cheap shot and kidney dont dr and all ccs are longer. Difference is rogue in wrsth cant just build combo points hitting a dps and then stepping to healer with full combo points to full kidney and then stepping back because 2 step charges lol to do damage. Also rogue in wrath is very hard to survive on. Retail is just horrible balance and gameplay.
I finally understand, it was opposite day when Blizzard announced the reduction of CC, now it all make sense.
lol same day of the enigma crucicble pillars moving, pala leap and priest stun/silence LOOOL
Yea. Let’s nerf cc. And leave micro cc everyone were blaming
So imagine that you are not in brackets were ppl understand the game and know what's going on. You will find yourself gaslighted, as a healer, when you lose or ask for a peel, because the DPS job is to keep up "pressure" and never line offensive CDs. (I know this is a product of being low rated or pugs, but this is the reality that 90% of healers are going to face.)
I started understanding what the job of the healing role is, to allow 2 other players to have fun, while I deal with most of the stressful parts of the game.
Opinion:
The shortened CC duration only made the classes with limited CC feel irrelevant and the classes with the most CC become kings of annoying.
Story:
I was against a Dancing with the stars comp. The boomkin bursted and the rogue did nothing but stand next to me and CC me. We lost.
I came to the same conclusion, i realized i was always super stressed while my arena partners were having fun and laughing every time they killed someone, even if i can press a button and top someone is extremely frustrating to spend 70% of the match CCd. I once had a hunter in ss that kept running away from me, so i told him politely that he should quite parallel to me instead of away and he said "you are the most mobile healer in the game (prevoker), you should be able to keep up", this was at 2k btw. WOW arena needs some serious rework if they want to have more than 1 healer for every 100 dps players.
Honestly the most fun ive had healing in pvp is when it was easier to heal people and there was more focus on balancing healing and doing dmg
Healers are becoming scarce in pve too from what I'm hearing, maybe just hunkering down with established groups.
@@scoso1313 My guild runs 3 raid groups. All of them went from having too many healers in SLs to too few in DI. People just find it stressful for too little reward.
They buffed total health and damage in DF beta and in 10.1 specifically to make healing in pve harder. And pvp has been an absolute joke to heal all expansion.
or people are bored with DF and trying out hardcore lol.
Every time healers get to do something fun dps players complain and then we are back to being hp bots.
A lot of the current dungeons in rotation are wildly overtuned, making just about every boss on tyrannical and many add packs on fortified a huge, huge heal check. Way more than last season. Lots of the mechanics simply cannot be done properly or can’t be avoided without either having a cracked team or being overgeared, and it all falls down to the healer to just try and heal through it, which isn’t fun.
They need to be looking at the amount of CC not the durations. Also look at DR as well.
They should just remove 80% of all CC abilities across all classes, the game would instanty be significantly better and more fun
@@rosemccartney1538 what about the classes that play around CC?
@@assyralofthemoon4367 well you just let them have maybe 2 or 3 cc abilities. If the majority have 1. It will still have relatively more CC than the rest. Right now every class can literally do anything and keep players 70% of the time in CC.
As a healer i can tell, some arena games i’m literally staring at my screen for the majority of the time. That is not good gameplay
@@assyralofthemoon4367 Aff locks used to do just fine with 1 CC ability. i know, because i used to cheese it hard. Now i feel like im cashing in karma for that
Have 100 percent anxiety the entire match I just stopped healing all together which means I just stopped playing
3 ccs should be the limit, no matter what CC it is. They all should DR together.
100% / 50% / 25% of all CC effects then IMMUNE for 15 seconds.
Cc should be a rare and situation effect used to put pressure, not something always thrown out at every chance you can.
yea agreed. im sick and tired of it personally. Especially how much garbage CC Hunters can put out by themselves.
bruv just had a game in Solo Shuffle as an afflock... and the other DPS was a ret paladin, an UH dk, and a Havoc DH and the healers were both fistweaver monks...
each game the ENTIRE enemy team would just TUNNEL ME.
They ALL have: multiple stuns, multiple gap closers, multiple slows, a short 8-12 cd kick, a magic immunity, and a knockback.
I literally couldn't fucking play the game @ all. All i could do was instant casts. I put on my vers/haste set, set up gates and portal, used VW sac for the extra cd, and went PURE defensive PvP talents and all i did was delay my death. EVERY game i was kill target and EVERY game i died.
I fuckn raged HARD
i feel exactly like that in most of my games at 1600 mmr, ngl. this one here though you had options to avoid CC, like most of the times rogue approached you to gouge/kidney you had para/legsweep/both available. now i do realize you probably wanted to save it for when you are kicked to stall the enemy go, like you did later, but yeah, it's all about trading and you either chose not to or didn't see you had this option. now, i don't thinkg i'm better than you by any means and i do realize it's easier to see stuff when you are just observing rather than playing, but there are definitely options. thanks for pointing this out though, appreciate what you are doing for the community!
Meh. This and everything else with the modern end-game is why I just stick to doing my own thing and why most of WoW is more of a single player game with some co-op here and there.
It's just too much going on. Almost 20 years of the game so I'm just burnt out of having to read third party sites, guides, and countless strats for every little thing. I'd like to do raiding, mythics, and pvp but you'll eventually hit a point where you cannot pass. Imagine how it is for new players, not to mention the scope of the rest of the game. Too much. Too intimidating.
WoW's playerbase can only dwindle at this point.
Excellent points. Well written comment
We almost need different talent trees/class design for PvP. PVE Utility has grown to such diversity, it’s too much. I’m wondering if class design similar to TBC/wrath simplicity but with shorter CC duration is the solution.
Well it helps that venruki can tell his team, that he is cc'ed. In solo shuffle warrior bois will leap+charge while you are sapped far away from the warrior boi. And then "lmao why dont you heal me" they expect you to trinket the first sap sometimes = gg
you make this video every patch, and every time i watch it. love you ven
"These 10.1 changes, omg CC is dead pvp is ruined". Yeah, aged well
The rogue tears were endless. And now they're back to one shotting people and making healers rage quit the game.
@@yung_cheezy It's Rogue mixed in with everything else that has CC / Gap closers. Healers Hell is real and it's DF
@@yung_cheezy seems more healer tears xd all the expansions complaining about the cc they receive, the thing is that when a comp dps doesn't kill it's because he coordinated wrong, the same thing happens when a healer is not available to heal his team, someone did something wrong. Blizzard reduced the cc as much as they could and they are still complaining.
What else do they want? 1 minute DRs? shared for any cc?
@@sebastianhiguerallanten990 I don't know if you weren't paying attention prior to 10.1, but rogues were melting down because they were losing 1 second on kidney and blind into sap. Meanwhile gouge, garotte, and cheap shot duration all got buffed, and now their cloak is a bubble lol.
Have you played a healer this expansion? I recommend you try it and then come back and call out "healer tears." Healing is not fun, and the population of healers versus dps proves my point.
@@yung_cheezy No, I haven't played this expansion, unfortunately. But I can say (based on my pvp experience as a rogue) that most of the rogue's CC attempts were (and are) very obvious. Ven did not use Paralysis on several occasions despite having it available before several Kidney or Gouge, nor did he use his stun to counter the rogue's CC GOs. Is it really necessary to remind you that healers also have CC?
And I repeat what I said before: the rogue was the first to die, and despite all the cc, now it is much more difficult to kill a target than in previous expansions, because the cc chain is shorter. In arenas I think this is not a very important problem (in RBG on the other hand, it broke several base capping mechanics). That's why I ask you: what else do you want?
finally, your arguments are "more anti-rogue" than anything else. Which tells me that I was right about "healer tears". And yes, the Cloak of Shadows issue can be a very OP CD and it is always necessary to evaluate its continuity. But there are few strategies left to avoid healer tears (which includes several classes, and not the sub rogue spec) and even worse, the way to recruit new healers.
greetings
Venruki: But when do I get to play?
Rogue: That's the neat part, you don't!
i dont mean to be a jerk but this is the meta you guys pushed post BFA (the go meta) healers do insane healing output and people only die during "goes" with massive burst and cc. nothing dies as long as a healer is present and they not in cc and ofc damp isnt high or someone is just pretty much globaled or close to it (dies in less than 3-5 seconds)
pacing and times to kill need increased and counter play aswell as playing your class needs to happen more, no one is enjoying this and it is ruining pvp and has been since SL. its also bleeding over into casual pvp like random bgs and wpvp and making people (newly players) not want to play out of frustration.
I love to heal, and I’m glad it’s not as crazy as season 1 or shadowlands early seasons, but the instant micro-cc is what is really irritating. Having a button like Life Swap ready to press and then getting triple DR Axe Tossed into a triple DR gouge or something, and my boy dying in that gouge is what tilts me the most
Let’s nerf CD duration so we can give a unique spell to the Dragons to increase CD duration.
Dumb to be sure, but the larger issue imo is that there are simply too many abilities in the game. It's a massive barrier to entry for new players for starters, but it also allows for the above - even after they just recently reduced the duration CCs. Simply reducing the duration of CCs further is not a viable answer, since it will start to reach a point where pure dmg will be preferable. The fact that there are literally additional abilities only for pvp, the pvp talents, show that they don't understand this issue well.
@@MartialArtzz I started the game again after 4 years, one week later. Pexed on char from 1 to 70 in 20 hours, and got full pvp honor + capped conquest cap in 10/15 more hours. I, now, sit at 1K9 rating and a war, class I never ever played before, and discovered evey classes again. Not that hard tbf if you're whiling to put some effort into the game.
Even tho, there is too much tool, regardless if you're new player or not, there shouldn't be that much different things in one game.
+ f*ck sub rogue
Remember when people had fried takes in response to the CC changes saying that CC doesn't matter anymore.
Wait I thought PVP was ruined because of the CC nerfs 🤡
right? lmao
ya im with you on that one lol yellowrose did his job.
i did find it funny that it didnt take long to see complaints about how cc was annoying or to much even though they nurfed it. why was there no complaining before
Because the amount of CC options should be less, not CC duration. Dummy
TBF, healer main here, my biggest issue is that I feel at a disadvantage if I want to raid and do arena on the same character
why is that?
@@kudohlol9379 sparks and the free tier token need to be spent on pve gear, mythic tier healers will be low prio
@@barleyshai4965 ahh im completely lost with the crafting and tokens thanks for the info. I guess you have to wait a few extra weeks to play both then
@@kudohlol9379 yeah probs mid to end season for most pve players
@@barleyshai4965 Can't we buy those token from pvp vendor that lets us make pve gear into pvp gear? for tier sets
I think healers need passive cc reduction in pvp. It’s just not fun.
I think the new evoker hybrid spec is a way for tripple dps to be a viable comp in arena. So I would suggest you healers to stop crying or you will be replaced completely 🤣
Better start practicing doing maximum damage and seting up cc, while getting trained by 2 meeles simultaneously as a dps player.
Yes let’s all play fury warriors
@@ziggs123 Yeah, good luck getting into arena with 5 other dps people
Just get good
@warri187 LOL healers already have to do this if they want to win. Stop pretending warrior dps is a complex concept, you just have to mongo 90% of the time. I bet you're the warrior getting exploded by wizard cleaves in the middle of the map asking his healer why he couldn't save him lmao
Blizz really needs to give healers a slight reduction in CC, and up some of the healing certain specs do. A lot of times it feels as if I can not recover from damage. I don't want it where healers don't die or you can keep someone up into d e e p dampening. But most times to me if I make a very very minor mistake it feels as if the game is lost.
Or Maybe just nerf the rogue "out of combat" during blind that lead to sap mid fight ? IDK JUST MAYBE THAT'S LITTLE BROKEN
People thought CC was going to be weak after the changes. Definitely not. All CC should share DR. You eat 10 seconds of CC, you should be immune to CC for at least 10 sec after
That means that something needs to take the place of cc for the kill window that was made possible from cc tho. So u want even more dmg during short windows then we alrdy have? And even less class Identity? Everyone's cc function the same way in the end.
Won't that just make arena into a brawler simulation deluxe?
Most issues I've felt during shadowlands and dragonflight with cc being so oppressive is having cdr on classes with different schools of cc. Not cc itself.
This taught me that if I am a rogue, that I ought to be kidney'ing the moment it is off DR, EVERY SINGLE TIME without delay.
If you don't, you loose anyway, it's not a choice, its a class design
You should be grateful by not playing on MOP, 8 seconds sheep, 5 seconds cyclones, 8 seconds blind, 5 seconds kidneys and … 😂
I play mage in shuffles, i take lobbys with fury, enhanc and rogue, they even try to interrupt me, is just stun and burst, repeat, almost every class has 2 or 3 stuns, Blizz loose the focus, every class has an identity, enhanc has purge and interrupt, rogue has stun....they add everything to everybody, warrior have a lot mobility, a lot of stuns, the class that don't receive a lot of mobility and control like paladins and DK is dropping to the bottom of the ladder, ret get a rework, get overtunned and got nerfed, the problema with pala was never their dmg or healing, is that all the class receive so much mobility and option to control that the class that keep their identity are not able to play the game
bruv just had a game in Solo Shuffle as an afflock... and the other DPS was a ret paladin, an UH dk, and a Havoc DH and the healers were both fistweaver monks...
each game the ENTIRE enemy team would just TUNNEL ME.
They ALL have: multiple stuns, multiple gap closers, multiple slows, a short 8-12 cd kick, a magic immunity, and a knockback.
I literally couldn't fucking play the game @ all. All i could do was instant casts. I put on my vers/haste set, set up gates and portal, used VW sac for the extra cd, and went PURE defensive PvP talents and all i did was delay my death. EVERY game i was kill target and EVERY game i died.
I fuckn raged HARD
I understand the frustation, and im not a pro like you, but a couple of things, i feel like team mates could have to done more to slow, or prevent a bit of the rogue control too.
The lock got ONE fear off that game, obviously all the attention was put on stopping the warlocks control and they were successful with that.
As a healer main with 2800 xp I’m not enjoying pvp anymore. The burst is killing pvp. Sure I believe in burst classes but the tempo of the game is to fast for healers to react and people to use cooldowns quickly idk why WoW pushes damp and quick matches, it’s killing arena. I do understand long marches can be tedious but that when outplaying comes into play. But I believe class balance is so bad we can’t believe of outplaying anymore…
Sure, getting CC'd for most of the game isn't fun, but how else were they supposed to score a down? Not by letting you free cast, that's for sure. They clearly managed their DRs well there too. Serious questions: what needs to change? What makes healing fun?
Not spending 70% of the game unable to control your character...
From the opposite perspective (as someone who plays a rogue and tries to CC heals) that rogue CC'ed his nuts off...and still lost. That also isn't fun.
Overall though, I agree the amount of CC's in the game need to be reduced.
I stopped playing part way through 10.5 because healing in pvp is the opposite of fun, even though I think DF is probably the best WoW expansion in general. I kept my sub until just the other day hoping the devs would change things to make it better, but I came to realize that their vision for healing in pvp is the opposite of what I once enjoyed
I felt your pain watching this video, People keep saying "we´ve always had this amont of CC in the game" and its simply not true, some classes did but now its a universal problem with DF talents. Warriors for example previously had one one stun or two charges now they have TWO stuns and still get to keep two charges. DH´s is an ape dps spec that should at best have one stun, they have two stuns, silence and fear.
I am actually okay with casted CC such as fear, polymorph etc. They break from damage and can be dispelled. The main problem i have with the game currently is the absolute endless stream of short cd stun spam that seemingly has no DR and people use this CC in ways that shouldnt be rewarded at all, just monkey dumping all forms of CC onto the kill target who then has about 60-70% downtime in an entire game. Not having control of your own character is NOT fun gameplay. Stuns should be substantially toned across the board on alot of classes, DR should be substantially increased aswell as diminishing returns.
you team never cc their enemies and rogue died as well xd you were cc all the time but still those who did more damage won, and not cc. Is it worth complaining?
I think it’s okay.. just give us more ways to counter the cc,
Shadow word death or shroud baseline?
Make more ccs break on damage ?
i tryed disc priest in s1. it was not fun. tip my hat for the people who play healer in pvp. it is not fun....
It's not just the cc It's the interrups alongside it I've quit healer it really isn't fun at all.
You played that so well tho, was sick to watch
Yeah I stopped healing solo Q last season, seems much hasn't changed. It's a DPS world and only a few healers willing to tolerate it.
Venruki was cc'd for a whole game subscription card.
Where is the DR on CC?
CC wouldnt be a problem if Damage and healing was nerfed . Dont let damage be so high and dont let Heals be so high. No 1 shots no 1 spell topping off
I feel like you could be talking about the reverse side of this where you cc'd enemy healer no exaggeration 70% of the match and still lost
Wasnt cc always like that?
Yeah right now it is all micro CC and button smashing. Every comp feels like Thunder cleave or how Warr/DH used to feel like in Legion
u still won tho, what tier ur comp is?
I said it before and I'll say it again, when rogues good in pvp no one has fun
Which is almost always haha
True though. Nobody has fun in pvp except the person playing Rogue.
@@d4mephistothis xpac has made me want to learn pve because pvp feels like I need an oxygen tank to heal people.
@@thelastshallbefirst3653 Lmao feel that, UH DK is utter dogshit in PvP but somehow topping the ladders in PvE? Might be time to swap. Also, blizz just cares more about PvE, feels like the pvp community just gets no content at all (Latest battleground in the RBG rotation is Silvershard mines which was added in MoP)
@@Kurnhelios isn't it funny how that works? Haha
Pve seems more and more appealing. I'll just be happy to grab the 1800 mogs!
Keep in mind. This is after CC was nerfed. (Most of it anyway, warlocks still got 2 kicks, coil , shadowfury, toss, spammable fear, infernal stun, hehexdeee).
Edit: not to mention, 3 schools & precog baseline. I'm never touching retail again, not because of warlocks - but because the game is REALLY bad in general, and has been for a good while now sadly.
I went in solo shuffle today healing anyway a demon Hunter joined badly geared majority Pve gear he was unhealable died in seconds so me as /restro druid and the oposite was a priest we both had 3 wins each as none of us could keep him alive I went down -50 the priest went down -47 points ......how's this fair for healers
The problem with healing, especially in solo shuffle, is the skill difference between healers and dps. Most dps players are less experienced than the rating they are playing at while healers are playing at much lower rating than their actual experience. This makes the game not fun for healers, at all.
This whole season is a healer nightmare, not only in pvp but even in pve
All of m+ and raide is a big HPS check
What do you mean, nightmare. Big HPS Checks are what makes healing fun, who ever got no fun doing this, is not a true healer
PvE HPS check is actually what brings me back maining healer this expansion. Weaving in damage spells is fun but doing that too much I would rather play a dps.
POST cc nerfs i might add....especially to the rogues
Honestly, why play a healer when every DPS has such full tool kits? Everyone has self-healing, cc, and a big defensive. I've seen warlocks self heal at the end of a 2v2 for the same as a healer. They should make other classes more reliant on a healer and strengthen the healing output to compensate
The 17 plus 4 sleeps too 😂
Hey man, LVOE your content. Can you do a video on UI and addons? Love the way your UI looks !
And that's not counting the shadow duels which is a form of cc as well :d
problem is theres just so much instant cc and mobility -- i dont mind rogues but 2 steps with vansih cdr (plus reduced cd on vanish), instant gouge, instant kidney (where they can turn around and cheap you for basically the same duration) -- same problem with warrior/dh/monk/literally all melee can jsut cross the map and stop casted cc instantly while then throwing a 30 yard range instant cc
Kidney isn’t “instant” you gotta press buttons to get combo points to kidney
@@BarrBakes ....... He means you don't cast it, once you have the combo points it's instant.
All mêlee but paladins haha
Sub rogue should be a support class and still have all that utility but take a damage nerf. You can go duo rogue in arena and win every game with ease rn
I feel like it sh ould be leaning towards demo lock, i do wanna say rogue is suppose to lock down for kill, locks aren't suppose to have fears that can just cc for years, and i feel like we should remove gouge from rogue. I don't know this might seem troll for me, but i feel like we did fine without it and i feel like that would reduce the stress from others being cc all the time
What happend to cc being pointless
This is the reason i stopped pvping altogether, i used to love Arenas, But nowadays people are exploiting mmr, Multi Gladiators showing up at 1000mmr to "play with a friend" and you get absolutely stomped. The times i encounter people at same skill level is MORE RARE than facing theese pro's. They ultra coordinate their stops so i cant play the game, at all. Super fun indeed
Anyone who argued that reducing CC durations was gunna be bad for pvp was completely delusional and out of their mind. I'm a healer main, and for most shuffles, i spend more than half the time in CC, especially vs rogues/warlocks. I want CC to matter in winning games, but the way DR works is completely fucked, especially with rogues. There should be some new mechanic where its not possible to be put into CC for more than 15 secs of any kind. Like a master DR system. People don't enjoy healing because of this, and on top of it, the dmg is absurdly high and people can die within a kidney shot very easily.
Ya, cc 100% feels worse after 'cc was lowered'. I remember everyone screeching saying the game was going to be unplayable with the 'cc nerfs' but healing im cc'd more than ive ever been in previous seasons
Could it be that they are actually trying to rotate games faster lol?
Man, seeing this makes me wonder and try to think back at how terrible CC must of been before? These are just 4 second kidneys, 4 second blinds etc, what was it like with 7 second kidneys and 7 second blinds? Holy shiz!!
Healing is 0 fun regardless if you win or not nowadays.
And everyone was trippin over the CC nerfs....
MW after 4 mins, barely used any mana. Meanwhile enemy healer is completely oom. How is it fair that MW has the strongest healing while never going oom?
He was cc’d way more than the other healer, DH has decent self healing and shaman was off healing as well.
@@pharmztko True shaman and DH can handle this well but hé was on 9 mln healing and enemy team on 11 mln. So the mana is still a problem.
They would have lost when 1 of the dps was a paladin haha. Which is way weaker in deling with this than a shaman or DH.
@@r-ex2945 you right both teams had about same healing after I added it up
They were like let's increase HP and DMG by 25% ? so that people can react .... and nerf crit dmg 175% > 150%.... and now it's worse then ever people insta die from certain combs hahaha and cc duration reduced ... yeah well 10 sec + cc xD stun + double cyclone some1 can die only from that ... great opener ... idk ... pretty much unbalance again ... specifically soloq
They mostly insta die because they don't press cds. They dont take the time to learn what's going on.
@@Telarius true but still in some situations they die anyway xD
Cyclone has to be the most obnoxious CC currently. That and intimidation/trap combo. Fuck I hate hunters so badly. Shit ass class.
For me, it’s the instant CC people can do to you, if someone has to cast to CC you and you don’t avoid it then it’s you being shit.
I would also look at a CD for how often you’ve been CC, the constant chaining of CC is what ruins it for me.
There is nothing better than when you save your trinket and CC as a healer to the very end of the foght
I swear to god thats every single match for me
You guys don't seem to remember Pandaria times
There's should only he 2 drs of cc at this point, stuns, and everything els (poly, gouge, blind, coil, fear, hex, incap ect)
So when are they gonna nerf rogue cc again. They need it bad
To be fair rogue only has damage during his shadow dances which is not gonna be every kidney. Also you have a ranged incap, rogue was very obvious with his goes so you could incap and leap away to prevent his go. But idk im not a rank 1 so
So what? Healers should be able to free cast? And the other team Better prey they can beat through it? The hole point of CC was meant for this very purpose, teams using the right strat to counter the other teams comp. Without CC it would be a cake walk. You have 2d1h going up again a 3d combo, without CC the 3d combo would never win. Then ppl would complain to nerf healing instead of CC. The fact the other team CC’d you so much but was unable to down someone shows they did not have the right timing down was preying during burst windows to do enough do’s fast enough before CC lost its effectiveness.
Played about a dozen battlegrounds over the last couple days and out of all the matches we had heals like 3 times well 2 cause heals left during a match and replaced by another dps. Tough.
been doing SS for 6 hours straight disc priest. started with in 2.1k mmr lobby, last season mmr + the inflation. i havent done a single 3/6, not one on the way down to 1500. where i apparently belong until end of season then inflation kicks in. and i figured why no one wants to play healers. but first of all, you know how many evoker, paladin, shaman healers i saw while going down to 1500? fkn ZERO! every lobby it's priest, druid, monk and nothing else. now, why healers suck. because you have to do 4 jobs. heal, dps, cleanse, and cc. shit is mad hectic. at 2k mmr, you dont even know how to react to shit cause it's happening so fucking fast. there are countless situations where you dont know, do you need to dps to finish off opponent, heal, to save yours, or cleanse bop. BUT THAN some one says i should of CCed. but at that point no mater what i do it's probably a loss. So now i also have to be a Nostradamus to predict this situation and prevent it from happening too. meanwhile healers just want to heal and throw lazy cc here and there OR do some dps (it's an OR, not AND). not all this garbage.
CC'd 70% of the game and the Rogue still couldnt land a kill. I dont see the problem. 🤷🏾♂️ Then again, im someone who has always found healing enjoyable regardless of the meta.
You don't see the problem with not being able to control your character for 3/4th of the match?
Does that sound fun to just stand there?
@@Xeirus911 No, no it does not sound fun. It's the soul reason I prefer RBGs to arena, I can actually contribute to the battle as a healer
@@Xeirus911 If you could control your character for +70% of the match, no one would ever die. So no, I don't see a problem with that when it is the ONLY way someone is going to die.
@Xeirus And mind you, Ven is not a healer main. The only reason he ate so much cc is because he didn't avoid it. He didn't have to sit through that much cc but he probably just isn't used to healing and avoiding cc.
@@catalystcorp That sounds good until you actually watch the video and see that the Rogue didn't step kidney Ven a single time, and only stepped him once to kick into kidney about 15 seconds before the game ends. Watch the video next time before commenting.
tryna fight through the 2s bracket right now is a blast!
You know the games hard to play when a rank 1 plays with a AWC push team they still struggle - what kind of any hope do us casuals have….
honestly this video is mostly just sub rogue nonsense. Sub should not have gouge. It probably should have a cooldown on cheapshot too. Pretty insane that I can dance and just cheap 3 players once in a row, then cheap the last guy anothr 2x. Getting like 20 seconds of your cooldowns removed every time you press vanish is too much that resets your gouge and your dance.
Its just too many years playing the game, at this point. People got this shit down to a tee. It's like a new player entering Fortnite with building mode on. You'll quit before grinding out the skill to come out on top.
it's mainly the rogue that makes the cc way to much.
I don't heal anymore for that reason. There should be a global DR for all ccs.
its a rogue and a warlock the most cc heavy comp since 2004
why do you complain about cc but you did not use any of yours? I know it is bait video, but even you saw rogue walk to you and you never ring of peaced?
Honestly they should dramatically lower ALL damage AND healing, put ALL instant CC on shared DR, and buff healers support abilities. Make the game less of a dps race and more based on good ability usage and teamwork.
I play Resto Sham. MW have ALOT of CC too while sham has like 2 if specced, that have long CDS
Paralysis (45 sec CD) and leg sweep (1 min CD). RoP or song of chi-ji. RoP is more of an interrupt really.
Weren't many big streamers whining that CC would become pointless after 10.1 hits the servers? 😂
thats why i almost dont want too play on my shaman i get cc all damn game in shuffle and when i play with friends in 2s and 3s, it feels so bad when u try do ur best and u just get shit on every time u try too play healer so i almost given up try healer, i did solo shuffle 1 day ago han healed 6mil all 6 rounds other healer also was 2900xp in shuffle it just feel bad as healer now in low mmr
ven sat 89 sec of cc in a 244 sec game, or about 36%
Was no where OOM and healed 85% of What the enemy healer healed haha... but says nothing about the fact that shamans and DH are way better in surviving burst than a retri paladin, While being able to pressure as hard or even harder than a retri pala haha.
@@r-ex2945 why is this relevant to my comment
You got bullied by that rogue ngl
I've completely dropped arenas, blitz, SS and regular bgs. I'm not going to stick around for the misery that is PVP healing. In the rare event you're not cc'd and need to cast a heal, too bad, every class has an interrupt. Mana regen plus dampening and the list gameplay of mechanics that target healers goes on and on.
Healers besides disc and MW are too weak. MMR system screws them out of rating. You spend all-game in cc. Exactly the same issues as Season 1
Funny how when you played with Absterge when he was healing, the video was titled "The best comp we ever played" - and when you're healing, it's "This is why one one wants to heal". Hmmm. Seems like a you problem, not a healer problem.
Difference is Absterge has been a Healer main for a long time and even he gets tilted. Venruki is trying heals to support the healers and I believe he’s just vouching for healers in this video title
@@TommyOhmalley Problem is, his comment is trying to be toxic when it's actually stupid AF. It doesn't prove anything, healers get fucked with micro CCs constantly. That is the point of the video and has been an issue for a long time. It isn't even a "you problem" it's an issue for why SS lacks healers. Toxic people don't use their brains because they go straight to saying dumb shit.
Ven, love watching your videos, ive RBG'd with you back in S1, was a solid group, youve got great content and "talking head" videos, but you really need to up the game on your thumbnails. Its all the same. Youre either happy, shocked, or questionable and you just color grade the shirts to different colors with every thumbnail.
it's not cc itself that's the problem, it's the types of cc that are in the game and the amount every class has. every class shouldn't have multiple stuns and you shouldn't be rewarded for using cc poorly. a better player should be able to punish a weaker player who misuses their cc. the gameplay is not challenging or rewarding. all the classes are homogenized at this point and the only thing separating them is who's damage/healing numbers got buffed this month.
new and low rated players only see a shit ton of random instant cc happening and go cc=bad and blizzard has become so clueless and incompetent they don't know how to fix it. make cc meaningful